Newbie 1972 | Game Over

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: The Worst

Bc you know I had to do it to you

[Uncrowned]

I think so.

Are you gonna show me your scumgame this time?

[Uncrowned]

Mm, interesting.

I like voting for people who already have a vote on them.

Why'd you join NaCLs RVS wagon?

[Uncrowned]

Yep, wanted to even out wagons,

The more slots we hit, the more likely we are to find something.

At the very least, this is generating some form of discussion, so I'm already glad I went down this route instead of jumping on NaCl.

[Uncrowned]

I haven't heard that specific theory but I've seen the one about scum preferring to sneak into the middle of the wagon.

[Uncrowned]

Explain.

[Uncrowned]

@Geraintm

Any reason behind your vote?

[Uncrowned]

@TW

Explain your vote ty ty

[Uncrowned]

cool cool

[Uncrowned]

I poke and ask questions to get reads, they don't come out of thin air.

Arkias' posts feel super over-explainy.

Think NaCl might have caught out TW with the discomfort of having 2 votes on him. Why bring up statistics when everyone has equal chance of being scum + you had just been the 2nd vote on another person?

Weird.

[Uncrowned]

I meant to type post not posts, mb. Post 87 is what I'm referencing. Feels forced, especially the "hasnt come up with his own reads" part considering I havent had enough from anyone at that point to make a read

[Uncrowned]

'fraid not.

More importantly: assuming you don't lynch yourself you have a 75% chance of mislynching. That in mind, your rvs vote is more likely to be on town than scum by a decent margin.

So I can't help but wonder why you decided to join an rvs wagon on me?

The unbolded is an attempt at conversation, the bolded feels like a suggestion to put my vote onto someone else.

Weird isn't scum indicative, it's just that - weird. I assume you have a reason behind doing it, since you have enough self-awareness to know what you're doing and not make any obvious slips.

But yes, I do feel like there was some attempt at "moving my vote" although I wouldn't use "pressuring". Lowkey manipulation would be a better term, imo.

[Uncrowned]

To give a reason it is because I feel like a craby crab snibbity snab.

VOTE: the worst

That is L-1

Was this truly an RVS?

I feel like there is no good reason to put someone at L-1 on day 1 of day 1

Why? That's a great way to get some dialogue going and develop reads.

Was the L-1 on your scum buddy too soon?

[Uncrowned]

Let's go more specific, this part in particular is extremely weak.

If you go through his post history, he's questioned and poked people a lot, but hasn't actually given his own tells/reads or anything to say, outside of poking other people for explanations.

This part entirely ignores the context of the game and where we were at. Not even 2 pages in, little content given outside of my interactions with The Worst. Giving "reads" at that point of the game would've been misleading and pointless.

[Uncrowned]

I do want to note, I didn't just say reads, I did say tells or feelings. Your opinion on things matter just as much! You're focusing on one part, and yeah, that's why I brought it up. Outside of your interaction with The Worst, you haven't actually done much either.

29, 34, and 37 then you finally respond. I said it strikes me as weird, not as much as anything else.

Town read next, so I can get my 100th post. Otherwise, I'd have done this as one wall.

The questions are meant to prompt discussion which then leads to "reads, tells, feelings".

I feel like my actions are being purposefully twisted here by you.

Read from start to finish and do it unbiased and you'll see there wasn't enough said to come up with anything of substance or actual worth. You're being close-minded rn.

[Uncrowned]

Also Duck, I consider votes 2, 3 and 4 to be middle of the wagon, not just the third.

And why would I not vote you just because I think you won't slip? That seems like a stupid reason not to vote. Votes can be changed and I can progress to the next person whenever I want.

And yes, I'm sitting behind NaCl's point because I agree with it. Why would I discredit/ignore something when I actually think it's a decent thought? If I come up with my own read just for the sake of originality, when I don't actually have much better to contribute, then I'm hurting town by cluttering the interaction and not focusing on the actual good point that, in this case, was brought up by NaCl.

And eh, I think both you and Arkias are making assumptions and I'm feeling confirmation bias from you two. I don't really get your whole "I should be seeing you as slimy" because that implies that town has never made an aggressive push that is wrong.

Just because I think you're wrong/unfair doesn't mean I think you're 100% scum.

[Uncrowned]

I'm the only person you've specifically brought up. This implies you're more suspicious of me than others. I'm just bringing up where you've taken things the wrong way.

[Uncrowned]

Do you mean Thomth?

I don't really like his playstyle and wouldn't mind him as a policy lynch, tbh. I feel like it's anti-town.

I'm generally of the belief that that sort of thing can wait until D2 though, or at least late into the D1 phase once we've gotten more discussion going.

[Uncrowned]

I agree with that.

The only thing is I sometimes feel bad since some people just don't play like others, but if we're going purely competitive then yeah, I'd want Thomth lynched tbh unless his style changed a bit. He's the type that Mafia wouldn't kill themselves because he confuses things and makes accurate reads far harder than they already are.

[Uncrowned]

I don't get that reference but I can attempt to read Thomth as things progress i guess

[Uncrowned]

also TW any response to my reply other than your unvote?

I don't think this conversation is finished

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: Faustiv

[Uncrowned]

@LoserdudeOG

Well first you don't know if a wagon is gonna kick off just because you voted on him.

Second I don't think it's all that out there for a scum to vote their buddy.

As for the point about L-2 having a similar impact, yeah can't really argue with that but I personally don't mind someone being at L-1.

[Uncrowned]

Eh I think it's a soft way of distancing in some people's mind. My scum buddy did it in newbie 1963 when our lobby "restarted" RVS

[Uncrowned]

Didn't like his entry.

[Uncrowned]

I think him coming in late would've been fine if he read the game and had input to give.

Coming in, naked voting and providing nothing more has definitely gotten my attention.

[Uncrowned]

Well we wouldn't know unless you gave us an indication that you had done so.

[Uncrowned]

I'm not saying "you suck and shouldn't play" or anything, sorry if it came off that way. I was just being lazy and find your style hard to read is all.

[Uncrowned]

I'm not sure about NaCl. I think I'm open to Thomth/Faustiv lynches but think we need to hear more from both of them.

[Uncrowned]

Rn I feel like pressuring Thomth is like watering a fish. He's gonna keep playing and if he stops it's gonna be super obvious :U

Faustiv opener earnestly scummy

yep faustiv is my pick for lynch

especially considering that this wagon hasn't progressed much since me and TWs votes

[Uncrowned]

Also, how on earth do we have the Worst at L-1 already?

Personally though, I want to know more about Uncrowned. His posts so far rub me the wrong way.

VOTE: Uncrowned

"oh we have l-1 already, ill personally move to someone else to avoid involvement"

Yep, like this Read

agreed didn't pick this up at first but this is a good take imo

[Uncrowned]

@geraintm

So do you have any opinion on Faustiv's entry? Since you seem against TW and I voting them?

[Uncrowned]

Yeah I'm not really a fan of the push on Thomth. Feel like it's too easy.

[Uncrowned]

I don't really see the argument that that's going for towncred, feels like a misrep of my post.

It's simply stating that the push doesn't seem good from my POV

[Uncrowned]

I think either alignment can reach it.

I think Creature's misrep is possibly unfair considering in his Post 279 he himself came to the same conclusion I did. Leads me to believe he's biased towards his own read.

[Uncrowned]

It's kinda sad we're all getting prodded here and there, right?

Means we have the perfect environment for scum to thrive

Also this post is kinda gross

[Uncrowned]

Not sure why my post is that small. Also, the arguement that this is a newbie game and that voting to L-1 like that is putting someone far to much in risk of being hammered is very fair. I will remember that.

Do you mean Thomth?

I don't really like his playstyle and wouldn't mind him as a policy lynch, tbh. I feel like it's anti-town.

I'm generally of the belief that that sort of thing can wait until D2 though, or at least late into the D1 phase once we've gotten more discussion going.

To be honest I don't like my playstyle either it goes agaisnt the nature of this game and is way to unconventional to be fun. The game freaks me out and confuses me. I like the game though.

VOTE: faustiv

? Huh, why these and uncrowned vote for faustiv? I’d rather the pressure be kept on thomth at this stage

To be honest, I literally just wanted to throw a RVS vote on the worst and I did not want the fact that my vote would bring them to L-1 to stop me from doing that.

So, to finally answer that question that was posed earlier.

My opinion of Loserdude so far is that he really hasn't... dome much? Reading his posts in ISO just make it seem a lot like he's typed, but really hasn't contributed much. I don't have much of a read on him, NACL, since he's pretty forgettable and head down.

Tomth is the weirder one of the two, for sure.

I disagree ldOG has contributed and I would say he has contributed more then you have. I think what you are actually saying though is that you are not getting anything out of his posts which is fair.

These all feel like townie posts to me. He doesn't seem to have an agenda and tonally he reads as town to me. He didn't seem to care how he was perceived and the L-1 vote was something I think got taken out of proportion and was used to shade him

[Uncrowned]

It's kinda sad we're all getting prodded here and there, right?

Means we have the perfect environment for scum to thrive

Don't worry, I'll...try to change it

This is throwing shade at all the slots that haven't been all that active... while he himself has been part of the problem. It feels like he's throwing little pieces of shade here and there so that, if the opportunity comes up and one of those slots comes under pressure, he has an easy route of joining in on the pressure without it seeming forced.

Then the whole follow up of "don't worry guys I'll try fix this" is just unneeded, feels a little LAMIST.

[Uncrowned]

I've just skimmed since I'm on phone, will give a more detailed response later but I'm not SRing Creature yet I'm just noting that what he's doing

[Uncrowned]

And The Worst. Don't forget about him.

[Uncrowned]

I can't accurately read TW's alignment but I get the feeling he's subtly trying to shade me and seeing what slots it can stick with

[Uncrowned]

I need to go back and see if I can find other instances of it but I'm pretty sure he's attempted it with both geraintm and Creature as well.

[Uncrowned]

I can't accurately read TW's alignment but I get the feeling he's subtly trying to shade me and seeing what slots it can stick with

I need to go back and see if I can find other instances of it but I'm pretty sure he's attempted it with both geraintm and Creature as well.

Okay, so I followed up on this stuff and turns out I was correct, he has done a similar thing to me with other slots. In all fairness though, he has also given other slots similar treatment and thus I can't say it's out of the ordinary or anything like that.

I do think his initial push of me evening out wagons at the very beginning of the game was a little off, but it's hard to think it's scum-indicative because I don't think he'd be that obvious. The only thing I could think of is him perhaps attempting to move my vote off him in a real low-key manner, but why would he be concerned about 2 votes on him on P1? The chances of that picking up steam and leading to a lynch were close to none. I don't think he'd be frazzled by that.

I'm gonna put this thought of TW "shading" me on the backburner for now, I think I've been looking too much into what I *want* to see rather than what's actually happening. Gonna read up on some other slots and try not get tunnel vision on him.

[Uncrowned]

Uncrowned - could you talk to me about NaCl's reads on this page if you have time tonight?

I think it's a bit too clean cut, I don't like the fact that the 3 least active players are all in his potential scumreads, and the reasoning for putting them there isn't super specific and doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

It almost feels a bit too fence-sitty, especially for a reads list that obviously had some thought put into it, since it wasn't just a list with names.

I'm also paranoid about his whole "one of Uncrowned/TW could be scum". It's like he's setting up a bunch of possibilities for a variety of slots so that whichever way the game goes, he can go down that route and it won't seem forced or unnatural. It could just be him having a different playstyle to me, but I prefer to focus on one slot at a time or at most two, not set up FIVE different slots as potential scum with a bunch of "could bes".

The TRs aren't terrible. I probably wouldn't have Arkias there just yet, think there's still some sorting that needs to go on. Overall I just think putting LDog/Zoom/Gerain in the scum pile was kinda lazy

[Uncrowned]

Little confession: i did fabricate my push on you at the start of the game. Can you guess why?

I'm assuming you wanted to get an early read on my alignment since, if I'm scumcrowned, you think I could cause problems if left unattended for too long in the game.

Either that or you wanted to come up with an argument towards me that was clearly questionable and see if anyone would jump on it with you.

[Uncrowned]

Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

[Uncrowned]

Mostly the former ya

You got through a lot in that game because a lot of the intensity of the gamestate attached to the masons & your scumbud - by the time it hit endgame you'd kinda gotten through without having to post under too much pressure. that meant there was nothing slippery or heated or personal from you, so the web you were weaving really didn't have many gaps in it.

You started with a slow burn on pg. 1 so I poked and prodded to squeeze more content out of you

Fair. I think making a push like that is something I'd do as a townie, because I think there is a risk of getting scumread pretty easily if you mess up and your push seems fake/malicious/has a clear agenda behind it.

I think where I myself struggle with these "under the radar, less active poster" types is I automatically start them off at a lower standing in terms of scum equity than those who have been actively posting. Starting to learn that it's not really an accurate measure of town/scum behavior. I think there's just that paranoia of losing to a team who has just done nothing the entire game lmao

[Uncrowned]

Sorry for vanity but in a vacuum what do you think of his read on me?

I agree with the placement, I think. I'd probably have you toward as a weak TL/bordering on null, but that's because I'm not really confident in assessing your game tbh.

However, the reasoning isn't all that great. The "I liked you at the start" while giving no examples or anything is too vague for my liking. I don't really think it's fair for me to comment on him being paranoid about your helping of newer players though, since there's every chance he just hasn't played with you in this queue and doesn't know how you operate here.

Cool
VOTE: NaCl
I had a feeling your placement was pretty similar but I found NaCl's reasoning kinda slimy - if you were on a similar page I might have needed to really check my reads but I think NaCl is likely just scum

NaCl/Ark > zoomie as wildcard

I'm not sure if you agree here, but I just think it's way too "open" like I said earlier. It's just semi-shading a bunch of slots and seeing what lands with the crowd. I didn't like it.

I'd probs rather push Arkias but they're more lynchable than readable because of the deadline and v/la-ness

To be honest I've kinda forgotten about Arkias and need to recap on that slot before I make a push like that. Deadline is getting a lil close so I'll do that soon. Still got a few hours tonight to do a quick catch up

[Uncrowned]

Absolutely. I think it was just a change coming from playing Mafia IRL, because when you're playing with people you know and they're being unusually quiet ("lurking" as we'd say on here) it's far more likely they're actually scum. Whereas here, there's almost always readable content and citing inactivity as the only reason for being scummy is something I'm personally trying to avoid now.

Interesting change of tactics and pace here for sure as compared to other versions of social deduction i've played

[Uncrowned]

I'm not sure about NaCl. I think I'm open to Thomth/Faustiv lynches but think we need to hear more from both of them.

Yeah I'm not really a fan of the push on Thomth. Feel like it's too easy.

What changed your opinion Uncrowned?

Tbh I was just being a dick and didnt want to put effort into trying to read a style I wasn't comfortable in (Thomths style)

I came around to the idea that he's lynch bait and that styles like his can still produce AI content, and his stuff didnt really strike me as scummy. I think I did a post where i quoted all the stuff from him that I thought was townie

[Uncrowned]

Just did a read through of the game again and decided to jot down stuff that I noticed from every slot. Read list to follow.

Creature: Bursts of activity, tonally appears town with the “stream of consciousness” posting style imo. Had early reads on one of Arkias/LDog/NaCl being scummy, which I agree with as I look back through these first few pages. Like his take of NaCl being laid back and Arkias wanting to avoid involvement with L-1 TW wagon. I wasn’t really a fan of Post 276 and the one underneath it but as TW said, it could just be me looking at his quirks and personality rather than his actual content, which I think has been fine.

Geraintm: Pressure and questioning of Thomth seemed more genuine than Arkias’, hasn’t done a whole lot to swing me either way but he’s probably closer to town than scum. Still null for me though. I wish there was a bit more production here, I don’t feel like Gerain is scum but I also don’t feel like he’s necessarily pushing to gather reads or progress the game himself. Mostly just seeing a lot of disagreement from him in terms of who is being pushed at the time. Demoralized from the Thomth replacement and the following Alexcellent replacement maybe, since Alex is seeming pretty town imo.

Thomth/Alexcellent: Voted TW to L-1 on P2. Aggressive. Casual tonally, no obvious tells that he cares about how people perceived him. Odd posting style that I’m not the best at dealing with, but I doubt Thomth is scum here. I’m pretty convinced this slot is town, especially given Alexcellent’s entry. I agree with his points on NaCl and he’s been picking out good posts to ask questions about. Logical and reasonable.

Arkias: Joined counter-wagon on me start of game, seemed a little shady. “I want to know more about Uncrowned” without giving specifics about what posts of mine triggered him, or asking particular questions to drive forward conversation. Seemed like an entirely forced read on me. Also seemed pretty invested at one stage in targeting Thomth, who I’m thinking Arkias might’ve seen as an easy mislynch target at the time. He did retract this later on.

LDog: Shaded Thomth for early L-1 vote. Didn’t seem to want to be involved in an early wagon. Got frustrated with NaCl’s read on him and for voting him. A bit jumpy? Later on, Post 344 is a bit passive for my liking. Why not initiate your own line of questioning on Zoomie than just “waiting to see what TW gets from you”. Very meh. Pushes haven't been all that great and seems content to focus on whoever seems lynchable at the time (Thomth, NaCl, namely).

Faustiv/Zoomie: Bad entry by Faustiv followed by the naked vote. Gave no indication of having read the game besides saying he did and then not backing up his vote at all. Zoomie hasn’t really done much to ping me either way. I feel like they’re being a little sheepy but I’m not really sure that’s a great indicator for me to go off of. Something to note, at least.

The Worst: Fabricated push at start of game on me, appeared to be a method of sorting. Playing his usual style, one of the more active sorters in the game and prodding with questions. Nothing out of the ordinary for him, I feel. The initial phase of the game did ping me weirdly and I still have my reservations, I don’t feel like I can accurately gauge TW’s alignment but I FEEL like he’s town. One thing I like is that when someone says they’re town reading another person, he prods for the explanation behind it. Feels like attempts at progressing the game and catching people out who may have poor reasoning.

NaCl: Opened up by voting on me, even though he said he didn’t like TW at the beginning. I like Creature’s take on him seeming a bit… TOO collected, I guess? Some of his reads have been solid though, and I tend to agree with them. Post 213 for instance is one I find decent. As I’ve already been through, I didn’t really like his read list on Post 356 but to summarize, I thought the positioning of most slots was FINE but he had way too many open possibilities, seemed to me like a setup to keep him safe no matter which way the game went in terms of wagons and conflicts.

[Uncrowned]

{Uncrowned}

{Alexcellent, The Worst}

{Creature}

{Geraintm, Zoomie}

{Arkias, NaCl}

{LDog}

I'm pretty convinced there's scum within these 3, although I find it hard to see LDog being a team with NaCl. Will need to look back to see any evidence of him and Arkias being a possible connection. Tbh though I've found it more confusing to look for teams during D1 so I'm happy with this list as is.

[Uncrowned]

I didn't see that claim by NaCl lol

Is that a CC Creature?

[Uncrowned]

If there was anyone to make a counter claim, I'd probably make it now. Imho I think one scum being sacrificed for a PR is a net positive for town, at least in this particular setup.

1 scum against 6 townies including one PR still alive on towns side sounds like terrible odds to me for scum

[Uncrowned]

yeah lol i saw creature quote it and i was like "wtf when did that happen"

literally happened 4 posts before my big fancy reads list smh

[Uncrowned]

What do you mean by shoot? Do you just mean target?

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: Arkias

I'd honestly prefer LDog be the lynch, but I don't think that's something that'll get agreed upon in this short of a time frame.

[Uncrowned]

Yep that's an L-1

...was that way too fast for it not to be a wagon with scum on it?

[Uncrowned]

TW any concern with how quickly the wagon progressed or no?

I'm somewhat concerned because both Zoomie/LDog are on it which are the slots I'm probably least comfortable with rn outside of Arkias himself

[Uncrowned]

Zoomie, do you think there is a high chance scum is on the Arkias wagon? Why/why not?

[Uncrowned]

Okay, be more specific. You think there's scum on the wagon. Who?

[Uncrowned]

TW/Alexcellent/Creature

Do any of you have an opinion about the above post? I know I'm thinking something right now about it that's a bit concerning.

[Uncrowned]

I'm actually going to post it now since I'm about to go to bed, and then I've got work in the morning so I may not be on in time for this to be relevant.

I'm concerned about the fact that Zoomie hasn't said a word in regards to his reads or thoughts on myself, LDog or The Worst, and is now saying he thinks there's scum on this wagon. The progression to me doesn't make much sense, especially since he thinks Arkias is the one to be worried about.

I also don't like that he naturally went for the least townread player out of the three options he had (I'm assuming here that myself/TW are in general viewed as more townie than LDog). Kind of feels like him sheeping and not wanting to go against players who are in a more stable position.

[Uncrowned]

I guess it could come from newb!town. Idk. The progression just felt off imo

[Uncrowned]

Looking at the ISO, it's hard to disagree with your points. I wrote him off as null and wanted to see if anything would change... but there is a lack of reads there from him that could've been made at this point. There are multiple slots who have all dropped readable content.

The treatment he gave the Thomth slot is something he hasn't come close to replicating with anyone else yet. It's quite noticeable. I think we've let that slot fly under the radar a bit too much.

We have a lot of options right now and they're confusing me. I don't like LDog much, but I dislike Zoomie saying he could be scum on our wagon. Geraintm is now a point of interest for me and think you could be onto something. Arkias is still a lynch I'm fine with, but the speed of the wagon is making me paranoid and again, that Zoomie thing.

I need to reevaluate all of these above slots.

[Uncrowned]

TW/Alexcellent/Creature

Do any of you have an opinion about the above post? I know I'm thinking something right now about it that's a bit concerning.

Also yeah generally if you assume there's scum on a flashwagon it's pretty abstract to just assume it's the guy who's been voting the guy you're now voting the entire time

Didn't you say earlier you thought this was NAI?

[Uncrowned]

Alexc's response is pretty much where I'm at - not a town indicator but kinda just nai

Zoomie let me know when you're around please

In this post I mean

[Uncrowned]

Zoomie, can you explain your positioning of Gerain on your read list?

[Uncrowned]

UNVOTE: Arkias

VOTE: Zoomie

The read list did little to ease my concerns about this slot.

[Uncrowned]

I'm interested in why you think my read list is perfect, LDog. Considering I had you as scum on it?

Feels like you're clutching at straws. The whole "comfortable and confident about him being town" thing pings me weirdly. I know my alignment, why wouldn't I be confident in that and try to sort slots?

Side note. If FL is scum, his entry here is extremely smart. Still more interested in Zoomie, think there's a good chance they're newb!scum.

[Uncrowned]

Ah, Gerain. When we got NaCl to L-1, Gerain didn't really say anything that was really about him at that point. I'm a bit concerned why he just suddenly went to his defence, without anything before that point. May have had that hidden at that point, but I'm actually confused about that. I'm going to see why this went on.
UNVOTE: Ark
VOTE: Gerain

Is it just me, or did someone else say this exact thing already before Zoomie did?

[Uncrowned]

Yep. Just checked and NaCl made that exact same point. This isn't the first time Zoomie has sheeped reads this game. Part of me acknowledges that this can come from newb!town but it really doesn't look good. Couple that with the whole "I think LDog is the scum on the Arkias wagon" and then notice he hasn't proceeded to push LDog or mention him since.

There's too many holes here for me to ignore.

[Uncrowned]

The thing is, I'm not really concerned with whether or not you view me as town. The name of the game is finding scum, and that's what I'm trying to do.

FL, instead of just saying "this is scumcrowned / town zoomie" could you point out to me where you think I'm being unfair, or why you think zoomie is town at the least? Post 570 is a decent one imo and I feel like you've ignored something that's rather plausible. I'm not sure I'm buying any of zoomies "reads" atm

[Uncrowned]

What I'm more interested in is this:

Why would I be driving Scum!Zoomie so much if I "knew" he was town (assuming I'm scumcrowned here). If this is a mislynch, I put myself in a horrible position D2 and will likely be a major lynch candidate for D2 if I'm wrong on this, since I'm the only one really driving it.

Both of you feel like you're not really engaging with my points on the slot.

[Uncrowned]

Incorrect townplay? I'm pushing the fact that he's had no original reads, has sheeped the general gamestate, and that he called someone scum (LDog) who he had never brought up prior to that moment, and still now has not pushed that slot whatsoever and is now focusing on Gerain, for some reason?

None of it adds up. Now he's sheeping the claimed TPR and no one is batting an eye.

[Uncrowned]

There is so much conf!bias going on rn lmao

[Uncrowned]

So you're saying a townie can't put themselves in the position of being lynched? Lol, what?

[Uncrowned]

Why would scum not just make up a read rather than sheep? That’s actually one of the main reasons for me thinking he’s newTown over newScum.

Because a lot of scum are lazy and don't want to come up with a poor reason for calling someone scum? Because of their alignment they're naturally not going to be invested in scumhunting, so sheeping another person's reads is the easiest way to go.

I could see newb!scum thinking this would also be a way to get liked by the people making the original reads

[Uncrowned]

It’s not even a matter of me thinking your posts are bad, I actually think they’re quite good, and I’m shocked at how strong players in the newbie queue can be. I just think it’s obv scum pushing an easy mislynch slot by simply outplaying them.

Ok, fair. But I'm still not really getting much of an explanation of how Zoomie is clearly town besides that he seems like a newb town. I'm not really being convinced that I'm wrong here. I'm just seeing things from the slot that I don't like and you and LDog are just saying they're wrong with nothing else added to it besides "oh you're taking advantage of a newb"

[Uncrowned]

I disagree. I've seen no real scumhunting from that slot. The biggest things to me right now isn't even the general sheeping, it's that:

-He said there's scum on the Arkias wagon when he hadn't brought up ANYTHING about the slots on the wagon prior, and then just called LDog scum. Again, I hate to keep repeating this, but note how he hasn't touched upon LDog again since he brought that up. It makes zero sense.

-He sheeped NaCl's Gerain read way too easily. He had only brought up Arkias as being scummy, but now all of a sudden sheeps the claimed TPR's scum read?

I don't see how this isn't scummy behavior, honestly.

[Uncrowned]

I'm just seeing things from the slot that I don't like

This is like one of the first things I try to teach when I have a new player as a scum partner because it looks incredibly similar to pushing a genuine scum case on someone, and that’s kind of why I’m scum reading you.

I feel like you think you’re being pushed for the wrong reasons as scum too

Well, yes. I feel like my push is being discredited just because I've laid out a decent case. It almost feels like if my case had holes in it or something, you'd say it's town because "oh, he can't be scum because his case isn't good"

Why does it feel like I have to play scummy and ignore all the scum like behavior I'm seeing to be viewed as a townie by you? Seems counter intuitive

[Uncrowned]

Interested to see some updated reads on this slot now that someone active has takrn it

[Uncrowned]

Explain what you mean by my defense being wifom

I personally feel like the attack on me is a little ridiculous and the time being used on it is better spent figuring out zoomie, gerain or ldog

[Uncrowned]

So now we're just assuming scumcrowned after no reasonable defense of zoomie has been made and he's still looking like the scummiest player in the game rn.

I cannot express my disappointment lmao

[Uncrowned]

Legitimately feel as though I'm being punished for being one of the only players to make an aggressive push in a phase where we NEED to decide on a lynch soon.

Paranoid me is starting to think FL maybe knows im town and zoomie is town and either way he can angle a push onto one of us D2 once the other flips town

Guess we wont know until zoomie flips though. Lynch please.

[Uncrowned]

The best part about all this? There's been nothing against me except "you're going against an easy target" but no one can dispute the points I being up?

And if we're going down that route, let's keep in mind that both the Arkias slot and Gerain were very keen on a Thomth lynch. If I'm gonna go down for going for an easy "mislynch" (even tho this is probably scum zoomie) then let's remember the other slots that also did the same thing, shall we?

[Uncrowned]

FL you've literally been doing the exact same setup on me for how long now? Don't play victim when you've been trying to drive this incorrect lynch on me. What, do you expect me to 100% think you're town with how you've been driving this narrative?

[Uncrowned]

You can't say one minute you think I'm a good player and then the next minute think I'd make as obvious a setup as that to make a push. Scumcrowned doesn't even get involved in this dialogue with you. I would've already moved on to a more agreeable lynch like Gerain.

Flip me if you want. For your sake in this game I hope you're not town

[Uncrowned]

Game state? Dude, the game state would have been stuck with a lynch on the Arkias slot if I didn't point out how bad Zoomie looked joining that wagon.

Do you realize how ridiculous your argument is right now? If I was scum, I wouldn't have said a damn word about zoomies questionable joining of thw wagon.

[Uncrowned]

And there you go. Your entire argument is dead. I COULD have happily allowrd an Arkias lynch. But no, I saw something scummy and I pushed on it. Dude was at L-1, why would I go out of my way to make a brand new push?

[Uncrowned]

What? Arkias was more inactive than zoomie. Are you listening to yourself?

[Uncrowned]

If anything you just made my point for me. Arkias was the way safer lynch if im scum. Problem is, I'm not scum. That's why i went for zoomie. Because his behavior? that was scummy

[Uncrowned]

Literally no one had anything on Zoomie until I started bringing up how odd his actions looked. There is no world where scum decides to put themselves at risk and start driving a new wagon when arkias, who had no way of defending himself, was at L-1 with little time left in the phase.

You're wrong on this and you know it.

[Uncrowned]

How does an Arkias lynch implicate me at all? That's a ridiculous claim to make when Zoomie and LDog, much more null slots in comparison to me at the time, where also on it with less reasoning than I had to be on it.

[Uncrowned]

I'm feeling so much confirmation bias right now that I don't really want to keep going with this dialogue. I've made my case. My Zoomie push is obviously town motivated and is not a play scum would make. I had no reason to push the mostly null read Zoomie, he was NOT an easy lynch. In fact, I'd go as far as to say he's a hard lynch given the fact that his slot was mostly a null read for most people and the stuff I called out was things that went unnoticed by EVERYONE else in this game.

That's all I've got to say on the matter. You're making a huge error if you still think I'm scum after all that

[Uncrowned]

...me? Town leader?

You're seriously reaching now.

[Uncrowned]

If I actually get lynched here for actively scum hunting and looking to avoid what looked to me like a mislynch after a super susp joining of the wagon by Zoomie... I'm going to lose a lot of faith in this site and this "meta"

The arguments laid against me are filled with holds which I've demonstrated multiple times. Now it's all just confirmation bias. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall that won't acknowledge my points.

[Uncrowned]

Oh, but FL. According to you, sloppy play is a town indicator, right?

Get real.

[Uncrowned]

My issue with Gerain placement on Zoomie read list is that, again, he hadn't said a word about him all game, and then dropped him in his scum tier. The sheeping just gives me a bad, bad feeling. I myself sheeped reads a bit in my first scum game.

[Uncrowned]

Well then my reads are shit

Then i try and squeeze AI content out of Gerain since we havent gotten much of that yet imo. He's practically dead null to me. I dislike his passive play but the stuff I've seen from zoomie is far more concering than anything ive seen from gerain yet

[Uncrowned]

Also ldog has seemed very content to sit behind you FL so would be interested in seeing more from him

[Uncrowned]

I AGREE.

But I've still gotten almost nothing from anyone to say Zoomie IS town except "uncrowned, he's new"

[Uncrowned]

I've explained creature and alex in my read list. Check ISO.

LDog was actually scum for me until zoomie said he was scum on Arkias wagon. Made me consider Town!LDog more seriously. I haven't really liked how he's sitting behind you so much these last few pages though.

[Uncrowned]

Second scum to me almost HAS to be someone that wasn't on the Arkias wagon which was LDog, Me, TW & Zoomie in that order.

NaCl is TPR, he's ruled out.

Assuming I'm right on Zoomie, which I think I am, that rules out FL slot since Zoomie didn't have reason to bus imo, especially bc it was fast wagon.

Leaves Gerain, Alex and Creature. Out of those, my order from townie to least townie would be: Alex > Creature > Gerain

NaCl im waiting until im on PC to elaborate on gerain. Been doing this all on my phone smh

[Uncrowned]

I'm going to make an honest attempt at reevaluating Zoomie when I'm back on my PC in a bit. I just can't help but feel he's scum, but FL is right on the fact that if he's town, I'm wasting a lot of time rn.

[Uncrowned]

I don't think FL would be scum if Zoomie flips scum, just because of the speed of the Arkias wagon.

Woah it's almost like I've said this exact same thing before...

Plus look at Worst's wall and it's like... holy shit, people AGREE with me on Zoomie? Wow. It's almost like he's been acting a little scummy.

Sorry, just felt like being a little toxic.

[Uncrowned]

Okay, Gerain's ISO is real short and I'm on my PC now so I'm going to be do a readthrough.

FL I don't really trust myself to read TW correctly but I feel like scum him maybe would've tried to join in on your push on me?

[Uncrowned]

Looking at the slot again, Geraintm wouldn't be a bad lynch for today. There's a lot of passive play that I'm not liking from him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my read list, because I've tried to go away from wanting to merely lynch for inactivity since I think that without context that's a bad play, but looking at it in hindsight...

By the time he made Post 476 there was a BUNCH of readable content from various slots that could've been commented on. I said the same about Zoomie, hence why I didn't take a liking to that slot and still feel some type of way about it. At that point in the game, there was plenty that could've been said about at least a few players, but he didn't do any of that.

The only push he's made during the game was on Thomth, and other than that he hasn't really done much. I can see there being a good possibility that he thought Thomth was an easy target, pushed it for a bit, saw that Thomth wasn't going to end up getting lynched, and then he decided to go back under the radar and play a game where people like myself and TW null-read him, but don't really consider him to be a huge scum possibility.

I think now that the game has heated up though, and given the fact that the lack of reads or real scumhunting coming from that slot hasn't changed since I made my read list, I think there's a pretty decent chance he's scum.

If I had to make a bet on who the second scum was, it'd have to be him. Zoomie is still my preferred until I do my reevaluation of him, which will also be soon.

[Uncrowned]

Okay, Gerain's ISO is real short and I'm on my PC now so I'm going to be do a readthrough.

FL I don't really trust myself to read TW correctly but I feel like scum him maybe would've tried to join in on your push on me?

No, because if you flip town, he knows I’m coming for him next.

Zoomie flips town, we get you the next day, then he has me in line after that, or he takes me out other ways.

Never does scumDuck not side with you here.

Okay, this makes sense if Duck is scum.

[Uncrowned]

Reading Zoomie again... I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing. Maybe I'm being unfair to a new player, but I just don't really see how you guys are so heavy on him being Townie.

I do agree with you though on the point that his alignment will become more obvious as we progress the game, something I'm not sure we'll get out of Gerain.

I'm fine with Geraintm as the lynch, since he's my secondary SR at this point.

[Uncrowned]

This is L-1.

VOTE: Geraintm

[Uncrowned]

FL I know you may have done it before, but can you in one post explain why you've swung on me so heavily?

[Uncrowned]

TW one thing that's off to me is when I was going in on Zoomie, you were kinda like "ehhhh idk man doesn't seem AI to me"

And now you're talking about how scummy he is and stuff. Idk.

pedit: this is wholesome af

[Uncrowned]

TW one thing that's off to me is when I was going in on Zoomie, you were kinda like "ehhhh idk man doesn't seem AI to me"

And now you're talking about how scummy he is and stuff. Idk.

pedit: this is wholesome af

I've already talked with NaCl about this
I don't think the townread is earnest
I don't think FL is considering zoomie's alignment in like any capacity

Ah, right. Yeah, I agree with this. It's something I was bringing up myself (Zoomie's reads, I mean)

If Gerain flips town, I'd honestly just like to go straight for the Zoomie lynch D2.

[Uncrowned]

Imagine being poor Gerain coming back and checking this thread lmao

all of that Me/FL 1v1 and everything that followed just to end up being the lynch

big sad

[Uncrowned]

if we're all town this is gonna remind me of the one time my friend hosted a "mafia" game and trolled everyone by including zero mafia

[Uncrowned]

if we're all town this is gonna remind me of the one time my friend hosted a "mafia" game and trolled everyone by including zero mafia

Classic. I trolled a friend once by making everyone mafia except for him

Love it.

If any of you have played One Night Ultimate Werewolf, there's actually setups where, if the RNG plays out perfectly, this situation can happen completely naturally. Shit is insane. The best part? Some of the players on the werewolf team won't even know they're on the same team.

[Uncrowned]

There was an 81 player One Night Ultimate Werewolf game on site earlier this year.

wtaf

i'm so jealous i didn't get to experience this

where can i find this game

[Uncrowned]

mmm not sure if i like that claim (as in the timing of it)

i guess that's a strategy/tactics convo we can have post-game tho

[Uncrowned]

I'm... actually not entirely sure.

SE BOIS WE NEED YOU

[Uncrowned]

But you were lynched

[Uncrowned]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there no reason for scum to NOT kill you for claiming that, considering if we're in the setup that's been suggested (FN/JK) there'd be no Doctor to heal you?

Unless they called your bluff and went after someone else.

Maybe I'm not thinking about this hard enough.

[Uncrowned]

@Alexcellent

Read Post 759

I still hold this opinion.

[Uncrowned]

If I'm correct on Zoomie, I think the only possible partner on that wagon is FL. Like TW said, it would've been a super smart play for Scum!FL to make to push one of the stronger slots in the game at the time (myself) who was making a push on a seemingly weaker slot (Zoomie).

I don't think Zoomie/LDog can be a team, since Zoomie tried to pick out LDog as the scum on the Arkias wagon sort of randomly, without much reasoning behind it. Is there a chance that's just a super weak distancing attempt? Yeah, sure. But I highly doubt it. So LDog for me is in the clear atm.

I liked Creature but we haven't really gotten anything from him in a hot minute which I feel hurts my read.

[Uncrowned]

At the same time, Zoomie voted Ark, more than once. Ark is now FL. Odds of Zoomie busing there?

I just looked back to see when he voted him. The first time he did, he was the only person on the Arkias wagon. I think that lowers the chances of the Zoomie/FL team a decent bit, now that you've mentioned it.

That's thrown me off. Gun to my head, if I had to say who is more scummy between Zoomie/FL, I'd say Zoomie. But even if he flipped, I'd have almost no idea who the partner would be, if it wasn't FL.

@Alexcellent

Read Post 759

I still hold this opinion.

Did you think that Gera/Zoomie could be the scum team?

I was "taught" (more so just guided) to not really focus on finding teams D1, so I personally just try to lynch the most scummy looking slot and follow up after that.

But, if I had to make an assessment D1, if Gera flipped scum, I would've been more inclined to believe TW was with him, rather than Zoomie.

D1 I still thought Zoomie was the most scummy of everyone, but with TW switching off the wagon when it was (TW, Uncrowned, Alex) on Zoomie, I knew that to make something happen I'd need to move on to the next target, hence the change to Gerain

[Uncrowned]

What I still want to know about is Zoomie in general, he still hard TRs me even though I straight up think he's Scum, and he's said pretty much nothing about FL jumping in hard to defend him. I don't want to fall into the hole of judging him too much off of one or two things, but I feel like I'm not really being given a choice here.

[Uncrowned]

I don't know what to think. FL clearly has self-awareness and knows what he's doing.

His ISO is full of "I'll vote Gera if I have to" and "We may need to vote Gera here" and things of that nature. If it's a setup for a mislycnh, he's done well at having there be a trajectory to the action and not having it come out of the blue.

I'm not sure if the hammer from FL is telling. However, there is something I've noticed that I want to sit on for a bit. If I bring it up now, it'll make the point meaningless.

So the hammer? Eh. I think for me it's too much a case of weighing up "Oh, he's just confident, reckless town" or "He's self-aware scum who knows a hammer here from an SE won't be jumped on by this lobby of players"

But dw, I've got my eye on him. Will bring this up later.

[Uncrowned]

FL, you've flipped real quick onto Zoomie. Is there anybody else you're worried about? Your theory of "scum liking what you were doing" could easily be applied to Creature as well, but you don't mention him?

Speaking of, I need more Creature and NaCl in my life right now.

[Uncrowned]

I think in general the play was just anti-town.

But here's what's making me hesitate.

If FL is Scum... what GAIN does he get out of making that play? He wasn't under pressure at the time, he didn't need to make a claim. Best case scenario, he what? Gets jailed by the actual JK, or tracked, but it wouldn't matter anyway because in that situation he'd just get his partner to do a kill anyway? And then D2, the actual PR would out themselves, or the actual PR could've done it on D1 and FL would've been lynched.

He gets nothing out of it. In fact, his scum buddy in that situation would be left in an undesirable position, with two PRs still alive (and a much higher chance of getting jailed or tracked and losing automatically). That would almost guarantee a loss for FL and his buddy, imo.

There's a chance of it being scum misplay, I guess. But I highly doubt it. In fact, I'm kind of nervous about the fact that low content slots (LDog and Creature) are jumping on this without really discussing it more in depth. The wagon does smell a bit fishy to me, honestly.

[Uncrowned]

Also, I was already pretty confident in Town!Alexcellent but the post 876 is giving me more confidence in him. It's him actually discussing the play and pointing out the flaws, without just diving in immediately with a vote that feels more opportunistic to a misplay made by town.

I feel like scum would in general be more dismissive and just throw there vote immediately on the obviously questionable play made by a slot. Town can also do this, but I feel like it's a bit less likely.

[Uncrowned]

I'm putting Zoomie to

L-1.

VOTE: Zoomie

[Uncrowned]

If FL is clean, then one of Creature or LDog are scum. I doubt both are on the wagon at once.

[Uncrowned]

@NaCl

As per my D1 reads list, TW was my second strongest townread after Alexcellent. This was all prior to your PR claim. I still felt the same way at the end of D1.

[Uncrowned]

And yeah, that was a super obvious fake claim. I feel like that's as close as we're gonna get in this game to a confirmed scum, besides a jailing on someone going for a kill.

I'm actually not opposed to lynching Creature/LDog since I think at least one of them is scum on the FL wagon. This assumes that FL is town, but I'm somewhat confident in that.

I'm starting to think now that Zoomie really could've gone for the weak bus attempt on LDog earlier on during the Arkias wagon, since his play is a little sub optimal here imo.

Currently I'm thinking:

{Uncrowned}
{NaCl, Alexcellent}
{Flavor Leaf}
{Creature}
{LDog}
{Zoomie}

While I'm not opposed to a lynch on LDog or Creature... I still think we'd benefit more from just getting Zoomie out. Then we "technically" have a 1 in 5 chance of outright winning the game, although with you being a PR, and a couple slots looking quite obvtown here... I think that chance would be lowered down to a 1 in 3 or a 50/50 at best.

[Uncrowned]

Actually, I could almost go as far to say I've got FL as a strong TR now. Although the play was objectively anti-town imo, the fact that:

1: There's probably one scum on his wagon, and

2: Zoomie just tried to fake claim and tried to incriminate him

Leads me to believe that FL is just town here,

[Uncrowned]

UNVOTE: Zoomie

[Uncrowned]

Yeah, I think he needs to be the lynch.

What do you want to sort out?

[Uncrowned]

If I am JK I will jail LDog.

[Uncrowned]

I mean... anything is possible, but I just find that way too hard to believe/

[Uncrowned]

I'm about to hammer. Anyone got anything else to add? Gonna do it in 15 minutes to half an hour.

[Uncrowned]

VOTE: Zoomie

[Uncrowned]

Achievement Unlocked: "Hammer Time" - Execute your first Hammer on MafiaScum.

[Uncrowned]

Oh my.

Good game guys!

Man, I really just need to trust my initial gut on some reads. Well played FL, that was close.

[Uncrowned]

Nah Alex you did well to not CC, NaCl and I figured pretty quickly that was a fake claim. To be fair, Zoomie did well to implement FL in his claim saying he saw him visit whoever died that prior night, I forget. It made me think FL was a bit more likely to be town at the time.

[Uncrowned]

Bruh. That Mafia PT.

"I'll save you." - FL

Epic.