Mini Theme 2112: Skyrim Mod Upick Town Win

[Something_Smart]

Sup.

[Something_Smart]

I don't know anything about Skyrim.

But I wanted to replace into a game and this one seemed good

I do plan to catch up, 44 pages is not too much, but if there's anything super important I should know I wouldn't mind a synopsis.

[Something_Smart]

I already townread both players who were lynched ;-;

[Something_Smart]

Pops literally called out an almost certainly real townslip as a fake townslip

y u do dis pops

[Something_Smart]

Goddammit pops was also obvtown

Can I please get a read on a LIVING player?

(Inb4 I townread my pred lmfao)

[Something_Smart]

Suji Eve maybe town?

I could see early Pine/GiF banter being S/S.

[Something_Smart]

Okay. TD seems really towny to me. I'm very curious to see how he ended up getting lynched and who was responsible for this.

[Something_Smart]

No you give the reasons for the vote, not ask people to give you one because you couldn't think one up.

[Something_Smart]

FTR, I'm thinking that TD's vote on alimdia (and vice versa) is distancing/bussing respectively.

+scumpoints for alimdia

[Something_Smart]

Pine help me get into this game, im on the stuggle bus my friend.

Fishy

+townpoints for DF (although they are self resolving anyway, but still worth noting)

[Something_Smart]

Okay, I'm caught up.

I'm gonna venture a guess that Xtoxm was a vig shot.

[Something_Smart]

I am not sure how you reached that conclusion.

I may be out of touch with the game, but it seemed like he was pretty widely scumread, and we know there's a vig anyway.

[Something_Smart]

Like I said, only a guess, of course.

[Something_Smart]

Why do you view my alignment as "maybe town?"

Super duper holistic. I said this early on but I do stand by it.

One concrete point is that pops was locking you as town and I doubt you kill her N1.

[Something_Smart]

Mastina ISO is really unimpressive.

I would like to hear more from her if possible.

[Something_Smart]

Whether vig can shoot us off of evens is important, since I can suicide without consequence if we have no other way to get back to odds.

Massclaiming in some form, not necessarily all powers but general role functions and restrictions, should come tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

As in, it doesn't harm town at all.

[Something_Smart]

Yes. I think Zenith said something about it before.

Every time I ask a question when the mage stone isn't active, I get an additional effect. The fourth such effect is that I die at the end of the next day.

[Something_Smart]

The second effect was the no E's restriction. Zenith didn't say the other two, and I don't think I need to reveal them yet.

[Something_Smart]

To get an autowin we'd need 4 conftowns that aren't me. Assuming gobble and DF aren't vig and DF is IC as they claimed, that's 3.

This doesn't have to be worked out until tomorrow, though, because I can always choose not to ask N4 if we don't want to do the plan.

Just wanted to bring it to everyone's attention.

[Something_Smart]

since all you said was that you're a lightning rod

Right, that's a thing.

Someone tell me why lightning rod + elite bodyguard isn't busted as all hell.

[Something_Smart]

Not sure if I should.

What specifically do you want to know?

[Something_Smart]

nor yours still tbh... ~ ~

Elaborate?

[Something_Smart]

My power is confirmed, and this is the type of role that is far more often seen on town and has significantly more use for town than for scum.

It's totally reasonable to think it's possibly a scum role, but I can't see any plausible justification for expecting it to be a scum role, aside from balance concerns. But you don't even know my full role (nor the full setup) so how could you know if it's balanced.

[Something_Smart]

No. I can only ask each question once.

I thought Zenith already said that.

[Something_Smart]

uh I thought full claimed already.

Mainly the self suicide if use ability 4 times seems weird.

I get the next modifier off of a list after each use of the power when the mage stone isn't active. The second modifier is "confused"-- cannot fill in blanks with anything containing the letter E.
The fourth modifier is "suicidal"-- that is, commits suicide at the end of the next day.

The modifiers seem meant to progress roughly in severity from less bad to more bad; through that lens, suicidal seems like a logical conclusion. It also neatly guarantees that he won't ever have to worry about what happens if I run off the end of the list-- I'll die before I can ask another question.

Also, it makes thematic sense, because my mod is Lovecraft-based and the idea is the more information I gather the more insane I become until it eventually drives me to suicide.

Among other things, I haven't claimed what the first and third modifiers are. I have no intention of doing so until it becomes relevant.

[Something_Smart]

Busted is a synonym of broken, which means too powerful.

If lightning rod and elite bodyguard activate their power on the same night, and scum attempts to kill anyone at all (barring strongman or something similar), the scum that attempted the kill will die.

[Something_Smart]

It's probably impossible now, yes. But with different stone choices it definitely could have happened.

You might be right that the designers figured the odds of that happening were so small it wasn't a problem, but it is an extremely rude combo to drop on scum. I guess it would probably have to be coordinated in-thread though which means at worst scum could just no-kill.

Probably the most relevant part of discussing this is trying to determine whether or not there's a strongman because if Wake can actually keep someone alive that could be a big deal. (Scum probably can't kill Wake or let him get a successful protection out without running into autoloss.)

[Something_Smart]

There’s some qualifications to my role that I think prevent this interaction from being what you think.

Fair enough. Shouldn't have jumped to conclusions

[Something_Smart]

i think one of the last two neighbours/stone activators is probably scum because it just makes sense that one of them would be

Your analytic powers are truly staggering.

[Something_Smart]

I don't know the whole setup. The strength of the levelers is completely dependent on what powers they enable.

[Something_Smart]

I'm gonna try to hold off on talking about mastina until she comes back.

[Something_Smart]

I wanted to see if you'd contradict anything he said./ Annyone, of the questions he said he could ask was "I can also ask if there is a blank in the game."
And blank can only be 1 word? Which doesn't sound really useful

Fair enough.

That one could definitely be useful. My current favorite for that slot is "Is there a bodyguard in the game?" Odds that Wake is scum bodyguard are minuscule so a "yes" seems like a pretty safe bet that Wake is town. I could also do "IC" if for whatever reason we were unable to confirm DF (not positive, but I'm pretty sure the mod would allow me to do IC instead of spelling out innocent child).

Though there's a different question I think I'd rather ask instead, but we'll see. It's dependent on who we lynch and what they flip as well.

[Something_Smart]

Bodyguard is *not* one of my abilities, but I think Wake is self resolving so it might be better to ask about another power.

Problem is, I can't ask about a power that could conceivably exist as a scum power. Because then the existence of it would tell me nothing.

[Something_Smart]

So would I but this game is a real struggle for me.

I feel that. Hope you get the opportunity to involve a little more.

[Something_Smart]

BS flipped scum

Come again?

[Something_Smart]

Mastina, what was the mod's justification for making you VT?

[Something_Smart]

Hey, guess what doesn't have an E in it?

"VT"

[Something_Smart]

I guess if I wanted to cop mastina, we'd have to lynch Eve?

In theory.

Mastina, why aren't you reevaluating your reads in light of the new information (claims and such)? Why does scum-Wake claim bodyguard?

[Something_Smart]

Yes.

[Something_Smart]

I can ask if there's an SK, but I doubt I can ask anything to confirm alimdia as town because I can't ask about the alignment of a role, only whether it exists.

[Something_Smart]

My side theory is that Suji is a serial killer, and one of them/scum failed their shot last night.

Why does SK-Suji kill Xtoxm?

[Something_Smart]

Maybe you should reveal the 4th possible question you have.

Yeah, I guess there's not really much I gain by keeping it secret.

I actually have two other questions, but neither one is that useful. Aside from asking if ___ is in the game, I can ask how many living players are aligned with ___, and I can ask how many living players are associated with the ___ stone.

[Something_Smart]

I can ask how many living players are associated with the ___ stone.

Which would have to be warrior at this point, lol.

[Something_Smart]

Can you put bodyguard in “how many players are aligned with bodyguard”

Almost certainly not, I asked if I could put in a player name but was told I had to put an alignment (i.e. if I asked your question, it'd only count people whose role PM said "you win with the bodyguard").

[Something_Smart]

He said "3P" as an abbreviation for third party is acceptable, I guess I should ask about "VT."

I could also just ask "vanilla." There being a goon with no VT's would surprise me.

[Something_Smart]

Godfather isn't even possible. It wasn't a cop check, it was a direct question about alignment.

[Something_Smart]

Update. Ixnay on the VT.

Vanilla's okay though.

[Something_Smart]

Go ahead and claim.

[Something_Smart]

probably not getting shot at this point

Yeah that was my reasoning.

As much as I'd love to gambit and try to get you shot, with an IC, a cop clear, a vig, and an oracle, it's not going to happen. And the town needs to know because they were talking about vigging you.

[Something_Smart]

If Eve is town then a scum strongman is likely.

[Something_Smart]

They're only bulletproof when the claimed vig can shoot.

I mean, if both mods are thief-related, that's hardly surprising.

If Eve were scum bulletproof it would be identical from a design perspective if she were bulletproof on every night.

[Something_Smart]

If alimdia's leveling still works if he dies.

[Something_Smart]

SS’s role is too op to be bulletproof AND a joat with all those abilities. Basic setup design

You don't know what my modifiers are, nor do you know what power the scum has. I don't see how you could make this judgement...

[Something_Smart]

Something_Smart

: I am feeling awfully ignored here. You're clearly reading the game thread and yet every time I have asked you for your thoughts on the mechanical impossibility of Eve/Wake being town, you just...

...Say absolutely nothing.

Sorry. Was trying to decide whether it was worth continuing to hide. I'm not bulletproof. As a result, I don't think Eve's claim is as outlandish as you suggested.

A lot of kill-stopping power isn't necessarily impossible, especially if most of it is gated.

[Something_Smart]

Alimdia, the chance that you die to scum tonight is 0%.

[Something_Smart]

Eve can't be vigged tonight...

[Something_Smart]

I mean if DF is an IC it's the same, and if DF isn't an IC it's harder for them to backtrack. Not a huge difference but in general parity cop is way stronger than cop.

[Something_Smart]

If we're vigging alimdia why aren't we lynching mastina?

I guess you should decide randomly between vigging alimdia or mastina, to decrease the chance that scum can interfere with it.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, it probably doesn't matter much, but mastina is scummier imo.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, that's fair. I think I'm okay with an Eve lynch. We just lynch whoever of mastina/alimdia doesn't get vigged and hopefully that ends it.

VOTE: Eve

Wake will be on me tonight.

Pedit: I can't ask it. I was just gonna ask about either bodyguard or third party.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think third party is really necessary to ask, because gobble and DF can't be third party and if you are SK then we'll know if we kill both scum and the game doesn't end.

[Something_Smart]

So I'll ask about bodyguard.

[Something_Smart]

It could be that you're the remaining Mafia and Eve could be 3rd party.

Good news!

There are 0 living players aligned with third party.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, given the Eve shenanigans I felt that was more important to ask than the bodyguard question.

[Something_Smart]

I mean we should probably lynch her today, but it doesn't mean that she'll die

[Something_Smart]

I should hope there's only one?? 9:4 is already nuts and with deathproof scum would just be disgusting.

[Something_Smart]

You mean, you have a power that can kill her?

[Something_Smart]

Do we really think there's a chance of 4 scum?

I guess in retrospect I should have asked about town-aligned players, rather than 3P.

[Something_Smart]

I think we vote mage and try to lynch Eve.

I really can't imagine that not working. We can do thief tomorrow to confirm DF.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Mage

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Eve

[Something_Smart]

GG. I'm definitely a fan of how Zenith played the early game (the bulletproof claim, the "what is everyone's flavor?", redacting bulletproof from Eve's mod name, and crumbing eccentric but not claiming it).

Setup was pretty townsided, I think. Most of scum's tools were only useful when they were already in trouble (mastina's janitor, and Eve's deathproof), while town had vig, IC, and parity cop which is already 4 clears, not even considering tracker/roleblocker results or the fact that BG can usually die in place of a confirmed town.

Setup concept was really clever though, with the stone-related powers and the levelers. Town power just needed to be weaker and scum power needed to be stronger.

[Something_Smart]

I also had it in my head that I might could possibly pull off a very convincing fake hammer in the late game.

Close to what I was thinking!

My plan, if it came to that, was to attempt a fake hammertest. I think that'd be a lot more effective, since if someone is scum I could bait them into doing what they think is a quickhammer for the win.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, I saw what you said in the dead PT. I agree with most of it, except for the neighborhood masonry bit-- it's a uPick, flavor is not indicative of alignment, and jjh probably picked the three flavors most suited to be levelers regardless of their alignments.

My role was definitely bonkers, even though jjh wouldn't let me ask how many living players were aligned with [playername]

(I asked him about a dozen questions trying to push the limits of my role as much as I could. Even then, I probably wouldn't have thought of "what is everyone's flavor," not that that question really ended up mattering much.)

[Something_Smart]

Normal games from an alternate universe... that's pretty cool. I'd take a look at it if you wanted.

[Something_Smart]

I'm of the opinion that mafia games based on game theory are not actually good.

I mean, in theory (lol) they can be.

But the Prisoner's Dilemma seems like a pretty tricky topic to do a game on, because mafia is zero-sum...