Newbie 1976 - Game Over

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix replaces JacksonVirgo. You are the best bird!

Awww <3

Hello everyone, catching up is in progress.

[Ph0enix]

So, a couple of initial thoughts:

The vote on GBJ from MapWolf in 35 is the first thing that disturbed me. RVS is fine, but putting someone that hasn't posted yet at L-2 is a bit much for my taste. I think, however, there has been a misunderstanding when it comes to Norwegian interpreting MapWolf's post. To me it didn't seem like he was actually that eager to vote GBJ, he just phrased it that way, so that's not something to go off of.

The accusations against Norway that followed, however, were unfounded, I find. Especially when it comes to Kanna's post 56. I don't see anything wrong with the push, how are you supposed to gain information on D1 otherwise? Though, I will agree that Norway saying that MapWolf could be suspicious because he started by making excuses is debatable. You are pushing the guy from the start, of course he's going to want to explain himself.

Datisi (62): "Voting someone who put someone else at L-2 two pages in is very "easy to jump on, super convincing and convenient" imo. Yeah, sure, putting them at L-2 that fast is weird. Why is it scum-indicative?"

It's not scum-indicative necessarily, but you did agree it's weird. Also, there's a difference between a "I vote you in order to lynch you" vote and a "I vote you in order to see how you react" vote. I believe we're talking about the latter here.

Norway (68): "Feel like scum!him would have voted me there rather than just defending and taking the opportunity to also criticize Datisi."

Not necessarily.

GBJ (77): "haha yes getting to L-2 before youve posted is aaaaa; i missed out on rvs how sad; dont like post 75 (proceeds to vote Norwegian)"

Wait, what??? Your "explanation" in the posts after doesn't help, either.

Wolf (90): "Don't really like 67 and 75. I don't see how GBJ finding you suspicious makes him scum."

Well, his suspicion is unfounded by that point, so...


That's it for now. Will post again very soon, readslist included.

[Ph0enix]

Readslist:

NorwegianBoyEE

Actively trying to generate discussion, pushing people left and right, making the occasional controversial post like 75 in order to see how people react (at least that's how I see the reasoning behind it). I don't think he's given me a reason to worry so far. -

Leaning Town

Naerys

Starts off problematic, not contributing much, the response to Wolf's vote in 174 didn't help either. She's trying to make sense in later posts, but most of what I see is defensive. -

Leaning Scum - subject to change; I need to hear more from said player

GBJ

I don't know what's going on there but it's questionable. The vote on Norway speaks for itself, I believe. Doesn't provide reasons for his reads, has the audacity to say that Salad has contributed anything, even though GBJ hadn't contributed anything, either. Posted readslist twice with no reasoning behind it. I don't know, it all rubs me the wrong way. -

Leaning Scum

The others are null reads for now, I guess I will need to reread once more there. Non Imh in particular is acting really weird, idk.

[Ph0enix]

Whenever there's L-1 I want to get a claim before a loljammer

@Norway: I interpret that as an intent to hammer on his part.

[Ph0enix]

oh boy time to feign activity by posting reads lists
{datisi/map wolf/kanna/non imh}
{jackson/norwegian}
{naerys/saladman}

Could you elaborate on that?

[Ph0enix]

I'm obviously the easiest person to townread around here.

Damn right.

Most of the others that I don't have a read on currently have a thing or two that concern me about them, hence why I'm hesitant to put them in the townreads as of now, for example:

Datisi and Kanna's push on you in the beginning when you voted Wolf. I disagree with his statement that the vote was "convenient". I probably wouldn't have voted in that case but I would at least have asked them to elaborate. Then again, a vote could be more effective in that case. I also don't like the response from Kanna in 65. Given the fact that the reason for your vote was that Map Wolf put GBJ at L-2 before him posting, how is that a reason that "fell off"?

The sole reason I'm not sold on Map Wolf is his first vote. Other than that he's fine.

From the other two I haven't heard that much.

[Ph0enix]

So in 260 Salad says that the only slot he's scumreading by that point is Non's. In 281, though, he pushes my slot to claim and 311 I interpret as an intent to hammer. It seems there is a bit of a contradiction here.

@Salad, if Non was your only scumread, why didn't you push Non's slot or convince the others that what follows may be a mislynch, given that you didn't find my slot scummy? You don't question Datisi's answer to your question in 260, either, even though the answer was "things and stuff". You didn't ask Norway to elaborate on his answer, either. You just deemed the answers to be satisfactory, for some reason.

@Norway: What was concerning you when it comes to my slot?

Also, Map Wolf and Non Imh were quick to hop on the Jackson wagon as well. Hmm...

p-edit: @Datisi: Your answer in 261 as well.

[Ph0enix]

@Norway: What was concerning you when it comes to my slot?

Low content, not much for me to base a read on. Therefore i wanted to put some pressure on the slot.

Yeah, that's fair.

[Ph0enix]

ive never seen map wolf start a wagon as town, only jump on other wagons
seems that's whats happening here too
this means i tr map wolf

Where's the logic here?

[Ph0enix]

also Norwegian is either PR or scum to me

Why PR specifically?

[Ph0enix]

Phoenix, how long have you been playing mafia?
Before joining here?

I've played a bit IRL and a bit online. That's about it.

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix any reason you're not voting?

The player I suspect the most currently is GBJ and I'm giving him the chance to explain himself before I vote him.

[Ph0enix]

Non was not my only scumread

"I only scumread Non’s slot bc of the inactivity and

no one else seeming (to me) scummy.

"

It's one of the two, it can't be both.

Non was not my only scumread, I was saying the only reason why I scumread Non, which I no longer do. I wanted a claim because, some bullshit reason. I'm a newbie at heart and whenever L-1 happens it's just instinct for me to ask for a claim.

Why don't you scumread her anymore? Do you think she's contributed in a meaningful way with her recent posts? Cause I think her recent posts are as good as being inactive.

I wanted a claim because, some bullshit reason. I'm a newbie at heart and whenever L-1 happens it's just instinct for me to ask for a claim.

I fail to see how that's a valid answer.

I still SR GBJ.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the first time you mention scumreading GBJ after 260. There's a contradiction again.

oh bother, mah reads
{jackson/map wolf/norwegian/(gbj-non)}
{naerys/datisi}
{kanna/saladman}

Please justify your opinions on the players when providing a readslist. I can also put the names of the players in one of 3 rows and call it a day. You didn't even bother to see that Jackson's not in the game anymore.

VOTE: Datisi

Also, what??? At least say why you vote her.

[Ph0enix]

Actually, can I ask why people individually find GBJ scummy?

Providing no reasoning for basically anything he's said so far:

- the opening vote on Norway
- saying Norway is PR/scum
- Readslist #1
- the vote on Naerys
- Readslist #2

I like Naerys' last post. Keep them coming. Currently scumreading Salad, GBJ and Non. Guys, that's 3 people on D1, doesn't anyone want to address my concerns so that I can narrow it down :/

Wolf's pressure vote on Jackson earlier I still don't like, but at least he has contributed with his other posts; Non's vote to put Jackson at L-1, in combination with the lack of reasoning behind his posts, I particularly don't like.

[Ph0enix]

Guys, that's 3 people on D1, doesn't anyone want to address my concerns so that I can narrow it down :/

Ok
Salad often acts like this as town
And nitpicking "contradictions" like those generally come from town more often than scum
I don't want to hang him today

Ok 2 people on D1 there we go

If only it was that simple.

[Ph0enix]

But I will agree that GBJ and Non concern me more than Salad currently.

[Ph0enix]

can someone put them on L-1 so we can get a claim or sth?

It doesn't seem as if we're going to get information from him otherwise at this point. I gave him plenty of time to answer my questions.

VOTE: GBJ

This is L-1.

[Ph0enix]

Actually, can I ask why people individually find GBJ scummy?

Providing no reasoning for basically anything he's said so far:

- the opening vote on Norway
- saying Norway is PR/scum
- Readslist #1
- the vote on Naerys
- Readslist #2

I like Naerys' last post. Keep them coming. Currently scumreading Salad, GBJ and Non. Guys, that's 3 people on D1, doesn't anyone want to address my concerns so that I can narrow it down :/

Wolf's pressure vote on Jackson earlier I still don't like, but at least he has contributed with his other posts; Non's vote to put Jackson at L-1, in combination with the lack of reasoning behind his posts, I particularly don't like.

Do you find him just not providing reasoning scummy and not the actual actions?

All of the above is justified if there's a reason for it. So the former.

[Ph0enix]

All SEs are Town
Phoenix is town
GBJ and Non are scum
Rest is null

Could you elaborate?

If GBJ is scum I think Map is partner

Same question.

[Ph0enix]

Actually, can I ask why people individually find GBJ scummy?

Providing no reasoning for basically anything he's said so far:

- the opening vote on Norway
- saying Norway is PR/scum
- Readslist #1
- the vote on Naerys
- Readslist #2

I like Naerys' last post. Keep them coming. Currently scumreading Salad, GBJ and Non. Guys, that's 3 people on D1, doesn't anyone want to address my concerns so that I can narrow it down :/

Wolf's pressure vote on Jackson earlier I still don't like, but at least he has contributed with his other posts; Non's vote to put Jackson at L-1, in combination with the lack of reasoning behind his posts, I particularly don't like.

Do you find him just not providing reasoning scummy and not the actual actions?

All of the above is justified if there's a reason for it. So the former.

I sort of disagree because I think scum could easily give reasons for their actions as appeasement. I think we should looking at actions themselves and if they have scum motivation

So you are okay with GBJ's actions so far?

[Ph0enix]

Also about Map;
>defended GBJ + from previous game, I have reason to believe he’s not a busser
> early on, I felt he was more aggressive but his tone has changed
> generally been coasting

Fair enough. Define "busser", though, I'm not familiar with that term.

Norway is obvtown, Datisi is doing townie things plus has more than double posts than me.
You are doing great examinations, (especially of me)
GBJ is the Lynch today. Non I already explained.
Rest is null cause I'm too lazy to read them since it was supposed to be a shotgun read list.

Fair as well.

Readlist goes;

<Norway>
<Phoenix, Non, Datisi>
<Salad, Naerys>
<GBJ, Map Wolf>

Mostly with emphasis on Norway; I think he’s quite obvtown. Will explain any placements if anyone asks.

Could you explain further about Non? Also, are Salad and Naerys scumreads or?

[Ph0enix]

Actually, can I ask why people individually find GBJ scummy?

Providing no reasoning for basically anything he's said so far:

- the opening vote on Norway
- saying Norway is PR/scum
- Readslist #1
- the vote on Naerys
- Readslist #2

I like Naerys' last post. Keep them coming. Currently scumreading Salad, GBJ and Non. Guys, that's 3 people on D1, doesn't anyone want to address my concerns so that I can narrow it down :/

Wolf's pressure vote on Jackson earlier I still don't like, but at least he has contributed with his other posts; Non's vote to put Jackson at L-1, in combination with the lack of reasoning behind his posts, I particularly don't like.

Do you find him just not providing reasoning scummy and not the actual actions?

All of the above is justified if there's a reason for it. So the former.

I sort of disagree because I think scum could easily give reasons for their actions as appeasement. I think we should looking at actions themselves and if they have scum motivation

So you are okay with GBJ's actions so far?

No? I just disagree with you saying “GBJ is just scummy because he doesn’t give reasons.” I think GBJ’s actions/motivation is scummy

I see. I mean, his lack of posts obviously concerns me as well, but this is what stood out the most.

[Ph0enix]

I currently don't have time to read through the new stuff and post, will catch up as soon as I can.

[Ph0enix]

Okay, I read what I had missed.

So, I don't understand Norway's sudden change of heart when it comes to his opinion on Datisi. While we currently statistically have a better chance of lynching scum today now that Non's outed, Non is likely to be killed N2 because he's confirmed Town, which, I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure if it's a good trade-off or not. It might turn out to be, I don't know. Here's what I think:

Mason outs:

1) We lynch scum today - Mason gets killed N2 -

D3: 4 Town - 1 scum

2) We mislynch - Mason gets killed N2 -

D3: 3 Town - 2 scum (LyLo)

Mason doesn't out:

1) Mason at L-1; claims; no counterclaim; no lynch; Mason outs; back to the scenario above
2) Mason at L-1; claims; there's a counterclaim; we lynch the Mason; N2 we lose one; D3 we lynch the counterclaim; N3 we lose another one;

D4 - 2 Town - 1 scum (LyLo)

3) Mason at L-1; claims; there's a counterclaim; we lynch the counterclaim; Mason gets killed N2;

D3 - 4 Town - 1 scum

4) Scum at L-1; claims; there's a counterclaim; we lynch the counterclaim; N2 we lose one, D3 we lynch the original claim, N3 we lose another one;

D4 - 2 Town - 1 scum (LyLo)

5) Scum at L-1; claims; there's a counterclaim; we lynch scum; Mason gets killed N2;

D3 - 4 Town - 1 scum

6) We lynch a Townie; Mason gets killed N2 by chance;

D3 - 3 Town - 2 scum (LyLo)

7) We lynch a Townie; Mason is not killed;

D3 - 3 Town (1 confirmed) - 2 scum (LyLo)

Now that I wrote it all down, I still don't know which one was a better idea to begin with. So I'm not sure how everyone seemed to be to certain in defending one side of this argument. I agree I might be missing out on something here, but still.

That being said I really didn't like the fact that Norway went so far as to vote Datisi, only to unvote him a bit later.

[Ph0enix]

Lynching Datisi is the best option today.
VOTE: Datisi

Anything that's bothering you about her that doesn't have to do with her not wanting the Mason to out?

[Ph0enix]

Saladman’s non-reaction to my push on Datisi was very suspicious.

That's a valid point.

[Ph0enix]

Phoenix, may i interest you in a Datisi lynch today?

As of now, no. I would like to hear what Salad has to say about the question Datisi asked him in 495. I will also have to reread again, I suppose.

[Ph0enix]

Now that I wrote it all down, I still don't know which one was a better idea to begin with. So I'm not sure how everyone seemed to be to certain in defending one side of this argument. I agree I might be missing out on something here, but still.

Look at how many cases there are in which scum and Mason cc each other. Trading a PR for scum is always +town. Meanwhile, if the Mason claims unprompted with no cc, they just die.

That's a fair statement.

@Norway (addressing 518 and 519): I can see where your concerns are coming from but I need more information on this, as I said. Also, I also went through your ISO and I, for some reason, still don't get why you TR Naerys. So basically what I'm asking for is for you to explain a bit further.

[Ph0enix]

@Naerys: Current reads?

[Ph0enix]

She is distrusting, quick to anger and acting like a total newb with some bad argumentation that proves she's not playing to be townread, but playing to solve. Again, that usually comes from town, not scum.

Any other reason for townreading her except that one?

[Ph0enix]

Nah it's mostly a gut read.

Well, you could've said that from the start. A gut read cannot be treated the same way as a legit read.

And i don't see any strong associatives, except maybe Phoenix.

Associatives, as in other townreads? Weren't you townreading Non, or I am mistaken?

But if Phoenix is scum we've pretty much lost already i think.

Lmao. I'll take that as a compliment.

[Ph0enix]

Associatives

Scum team association.

So you are scumreading me, yes?

[Ph0enix]

No.

Your phrasing got me confused then.

[Ph0enix]

No.

Your phrasing got me confused then.

Can you explain that again, I'm not following apparently for some reason.

[Ph0enix]

And i don't see any strong associatives, except maybe Phoenix.

Associatives, as in other townreads? Weren't you townreading Non, or I am mistaken?

I don't see any strong associations between theoretical scum!Naerys and another scum teammate.
Rephrased it.

Got it, my bad.

[Ph0enix]

Rn, I think the whole game is really getting heated up. I'd like to ask Norway why you're so confident the Non is the mason?

Because there is no counter claim?

I have to agree, I don't see a reason for the real Mason not to counterclaim by now unless Non is, in fact, the real Mason.

because game after game Salad lurks and posts "weird" posts that scum can flock to and get him lynched when i do think he's showing solving that people are missing and/or deliberately underplaying

What are you referring to in particular?


Also, I'm getting slightly annoyed by Non. Is that how you play in general or you genuinely don't care what's going on?

I also need more from Wolf.

[Ph0enix]

Shotgun reads are (from town, null, scum)
Norway, Phoenix
Dat, Map, Non
Idk

What about Naerys?

[Ph0enix]

Shotgun reads are (from town, null, scum)
Norway, Phoenix
Dat, Map, Non
Idk

What about Naerys?

Didn't see 603, nevermind.

[Ph0enix]

Rn, I think the whole game is really getting heated up. I'd like to ask Norway why you're so confident the Non is the mason?

What makes you think Non's not the Mason?

[Ph0enix]

Shotgun reads are (from town, null, scum)
Norway, Phoenix
Dat, Map, Non
Idk

What made you put Datisi from Town to null? The whole argument against Norway or something else?

[Ph0enix]

I think I have an idea of who the mason is, but I still think the person should claim (at least before the end of the day), since we risk having scum claim mason tomorrow, leaving us in a bad spot.

So you also don't think it's Non, I'll assume? Why not?

[Ph0enix]

Current reads, Map?

[Ph0enix]

> Non not bothering to give reads
> main wagon still being the lynchbait

nice

Hm... if Saladman is green, that´d make Norwegian highly suspicious.
According to JEEP's Tells Norwegian or Phoenix could be scum ( i know these tells are not rlly considered valid anymore)

Which tells, I don't know what you are referring to?

[Ph0enix]

@Datisi: Could you answer604 now that you're here?

[Ph0enix]

> Non not bothering to give reads
> main wagon still being the lynchbait

nice

Hm... if Saladman is green, that´d make Norwegian highly suspicious.
According to JEEP's Tells Norwegian or Phoenix could be scum ( i know these tells are not rlly considered valid anymore)

Which tells, I don't know what you are referring to?

That at 3rd or 4th place in wagon could be scum
link:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ding_Mafia

The sole reason I didn't vote GBJ earlier is because I was hoping he'd get back and answer my questions. But, in general, the ones who join the wagon later could be more suspicious, sure.

[Ph0enix]

ok so
he has a history of constantly doing this exact same thing as Town
why is it impossible for you to reconsider that hey maybe? he's actually Town?

How does his behavior differ when he's scum then?

[Ph0enix]

Phoenix, if i may. What are your reads right now? I'd also like to know if you agree with my towncore. Me, you and Non Imh are unmistakably town.
Datisi, Saladman. Are most scummy.
Naerys and Map Wolf secondary in scumminess. (Although i think Naery's is most likely town, especially due to my scumread Datisi constantly trying to paint her as scum)

Will have to reread again more thoroughly in order to answer this one. I'll get to it, though.

[Ph0enix]

consindering that he's been acting like this across his multiple Town games and has flaked out of his

only scum game

on site (that i know of, but i'm like 80% sure there aren't any others), i'd say he's solidly in his town meta

How do you know that he does not behave in a similar way when playing scum then?

[Ph0enix]

Working on readslist.

[Ph0enix]

Readslist, as promised:

Datisi, Salad

I have to speak about these two in the same paragraph. As far as D1 goes I was fine with Datisi apart from some minor stuff. I disagree with Norway that Datisi's been townreading Salad from the start, it doesn't seem so. When she starts townreading him, though, her main argument is him often acting in a similar way as Town. I'll ignore the whole thing about if the Mason should have claimed or not because as I already said I think there are good points to both sides of the argument. The townread on Salad is the point that has to be addressed here - speaking from my point of view, if I ignore the fact that Salad's Town playstyle is similar to the one he's showing us in this game, I still have some things that bugged my about him from D1 that I have already addressed as well as the fact that he hasn't posted much on D2. Also, him ignoring some of the questions asked is pissing me off, honestly. The fact that he gave up defending himself is not alignment-indicative whatsoever. I could see Datisi giving him a null read, as there are some things about Salad on D1 that I liked, but also some things I didn't. But a townread, I'm not so sure.

Datisi -

null

Salad -

Leaning scum

Norway, Naerys

Also have to address these two together. No problem with him whatsoever on D1. On D2, him starting to suspect Datisi based on the sole fact that Datisi didn't want the Mason to claim I don't understand. The vote-unvote on Datisi I also didn't like. Let's proceed to the Naerys townread then, that's the key point here. Naerys had a bad start, imo. 174 I particularly do not like. Overall, not impressed by her D1. D2: quick to suspect Datisi for no good reason, quick to vote Salad as well, based solely on the evidence from D1 instead of questioning him first. Proceeds to reconsider because... reasons, I guess? So, in general, does the Norway TR on Naerys make sense? No. Why did Norway proceed to vote Naerys after townreading her for so long? I don't know.

Norway -

null

Naerys -

Leaning Scum

Map Wolf

D1 was okay, except some stuff, such as his lingering vote on my slot or him voting my slot along with Non in the first place. D2, though, he's basically non-existent. Overall, not a lot to go off of but from what I have as information currently:

Map Wolf -

Leaning Scum

Non Imh

Town, solely because if she was not the Mason the real Mason should've claimed by now, I find. Her overall play I don't like.

Non Imh -

Town

To all three of my scumreads: What are your thoughts about the game right now? Reads, anything else you want to share? And given that we're 28 pages in I would like a more thorough answer, not shotgun reads or something. I think it's not much to ask.

The same goes for Non, now that I think about it. Look alive.

[Ph0enix]

Readslist, as promised

What's your reasoning behind having 3 scumreads with 2 scum being alive?

Because I find 3 people scummy? That doesn't mean they all are, obviously.

[Ph0enix]

Could someone post all the questions that I ignored, so I can answer them. I probably just skimmed through most of it and/or was too lazy/busy to answer them.

608, 686, unless I've missed something.

fairly confident you're just playing around, but yeah, Map is scum IMO in case anyone reading hadn't figured it out yet, maybe

Because of the things already pointed out or something else?

[Ph0enix]

3) Saladman kinda reminds me GBJ a bit. Does not write much, avoids some questions. Atleast he posted some readslist, but i wish he wrote his reasons. I can imagine him as both lurking scum and lurking town, so null for now.

What was the reason for your vote against him and for the unvote that followed?

@Norway: Opinion on Naerys? Cause your last few posts have probably confused some people, including me.

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix you've pointed to multiple scumleans in your reads list. But who do you prefer today? Do you agree on Map Wolf?

To be fair, I agree with your point that what Naerys has done so far could be seen as mistakes from a Town player instead of scum play. A bit quick to vote on a couple of occasions but I think she's trying to make sense.

As far as the other two go, at this point I'm fine with either of the two. I do agree with your opinion on Map Wolf, but he, as well as Salad, has had a not bad D1 and a D2 in which he's not been helpful, so I'm putting them both in the same category for now. I'm still waiting for them to answer my question in 686, hopefully that will clear some stuff up.

[Ph0enix]

To all three of my scumreads: What are your thoughts about the game right now? Reads, anything else you want to share? And given that we're 28 pages in I would like

a more thorough answer

, not shotgun reads or something. I think it's not much to ask.

The same goes for Non, now that I think about it. Look alive.

fairly confident you're just playing around, but yeah, Map is scum IMO in case anyone reading hadn't figured it out yet, maybe

*sigh* Thanks for nothing.

[Ph0enix]

Sup fuckers

I just lost one Town game can yall start posting and not make me lose another

Where is Map Wolf

To be fair, with the lack of Datisi posts covering half of the page in the last 24 hours, I was starting to get worried. xD

[Ph0enix]

I've been considering either Naery's or Saladman.
Phoenix, you, Non Imh unlikely.

Are you townreading Datisi now?

[Ph0enix]

He still has a question left unanswered. Same goes for Salad. When they respond, I'll see if my opinion changes. I don't vote left and right, that's just how I play.

[Ph0enix]

I've been considering either Naery's or Saladman.
Phoenix, you, Non Imh unlikely.

Are you townreading Datisi now?

I don't consider Datisi a likely Map Wolf partner, thats all i said.

Understood.

[Ph0enix]

To all three of my scumreads: What are your thoughts about the game right now? Reads, anything else you want to share? And given that we're 28 pages in I would like

a more thorough answer

, not shotgun reads or something. I think it's not much to ask.

Sorry that

I don't have much to say

, but

I really don't know how to place people in this game beyond my earlier readlist

.

"(Non Imh), (Ph0enix), (NorwegianboyEE)
(

Datisi

), (Naerys)

(Saladman27)

" ---> Scumread? Hello?

VOTE: Datisi

...

For fuck's sake.

VOTE: Map Wolf

This is L-1.

[Ph0enix]

Naery's i don't like how you were completely ok with voting Saladman but now you're stalling.

True.

[Ph0enix]

That or your golden globe Salad.

Lmao.

[Ph0enix]

Naery's acting visibly nervous

I am not nervous. Please, stop assuming. I already said that i do not know what to think about Map, so i am not entirely convinced that lynching him is the right option.

So you don't see enough evidence in order for us to think he's scummy enough for a lynch?

[Ph0enix]

Naerys it's over. Just hammer your scum buddy and get it over with.

No.

Could you address 742 then?

[Ph0enix]

So does anyone not think Naerys is the last scum?

I do think so, but I'll let her post first, it's only fair. I don't want to vote right out of the gate. Not that I think she has something to say that will convince me, but still.

@Naerys: What do you think Map Wolf flipping red and the night kill have given us in terms of information (other than the fact that you not wanting to vote Map, now that we know he was scum, was obviously shady)?

@Salad: Could you please answer the unanswered questions now?

[Ph0enix]

Sorry, I wasn't able to post earlier.

That being said, Naerys has done little to change my opinion of her.

Intent to hammer in ~6 hours

[Ph0enix]

i hope you wont take offence but i dont rlly want to play any game where you will be

It's part of his playstyle from what I am seeing. It's part of the game, nothing's personal here. I'm sure Norway's a nice guy when he's not busy lynching scum.

Love having two intents.

I mean, it's just as likely that Salad posts in 3 hours as it is for him to post in 3 days, so I prefer to have a deadline.

[Ph0enix]

That being said, Naerys has done little to change my opinion of her.

There is nothing i could say that would change ur opinion

Pretty much.

[Ph0enix]

I'm saying, Salad gave intent which means all 4 of us are on board. What exactly are we waiting for?

Oh. My bad, that's a good point.

[Ph0enix]

Anything else, Naerys?

[Ph0enix]

I can see your trio arguing till death

I don't know why you phrase that like it's a bad thing. Arguing is a part of the game.

+1

[Ph0enix]

It's time to reread stuff again in order to assess our situation, I don't want to throw accusations right out of the gate.

So one of you is mason and one is scum. That's a interesting twist.
Nobody vote yet please. Don't want scum to quickhammer.

^ This.

Claiming VT.

[Ph0enix]

Claiming VT.

If you're VT it means Datisi is mason. Ergo you are scum from my perspective. Because i'm the real VT.

Assuming you're VT that makes total sense, yes.

[Ph0enix]

Datisi
Gun to head, million dollar question

Who is Map's partner

[Ph0enix]

Who do you think is more likely to be scum Datisi? Me who immediately joined you in voting Map Wolf and stayed through with it, or Ph0enix who joined only like 3rd in the wagon when it already seemed inevitable he'd be lynched that day?

I prefer to save the vote for when I'm certain rather than proceed to do a full 180 on a Townie, thank you very much.

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

[Ph0enix]

I'm certain rather than proceed to do a full 180 on a Townie, thank you very much.

Is that the strategy you're going with? You said earlier that you thought my aggressive pushing was my town playstyle, but now that you're cornered you go a full 180 on yourself and claim i'm scummy for it. Lmao.

I'm not bothered by you pushing Naerys, I'm bothered by you townreading Naerys and the following sudden change of heart, going so far as to remove the vote you'd already placed on Map previously in order to vote her.

[Ph0enix]

Also if you want a meta clear on me, i'm usually never this aggressive as scum. I like to stay in the back and pretend like i'm doing townie things, not blatantly push a lynch on Naerys like i did yesterday. Or stick my head out by pushing you and Saladman.

I'm not that big of a fan of meta reads, I prefer to not look at it thoroughly if I have better evidence available.

[Ph0enix]

Also if you want a meta clear on me, i'm usually never this aggressive as scum. I like to stay in the back and pretend like i'm doing townie things, not blatantly push a lynch on Naerys like i did yesterday. Or stick my head out by pushing you and Saladman.

I'm not that big of a fan of meta reads, I prefer to not look at it thoroughly if I have better evidence available.

You're not a fan of it because you're scum and don't want me to look townier than you.

Don't you have better arguments as to you being Town and me being scum than some other game you played in?

[Ph0enix]

I suspected Map Wolf early in this game. Look at post 36 and 37.

Given the fact that Map had only 1 post when you voted him:

1) That's a RVS vote/vote made in order to push Map - no argument as to you being Town
2) It's a legitimate vote based on 1 post

So you're either saying that you voting Map during RVS/pushing him a bit from the start is Town indicative or you're bragging that you voted scum after his first post, even though one cannot make assumptions of alignment based on someone's first post, usually.

[Ph0enix]

So you're either saying that you voting Map during RVS/pushing him a bit from the start is Town indicative or you're bragging that you voted scum after his first post,

I'm bragging. ^^

You can be sure it sounded like an argument.

[Ph0enix]

I'm actually glad you chose me for the LYLO duel Ph0enix, because i probably wouldn't have caught you out as scum if it was done any other way.

And you do now, because?

[Ph0enix]

Oh look, Ph0enix has amnesia. He doesn't remember why i know he's scum.

Ah yes, I suppose I know what you are referring to. Two can play that game.

Datisi, you are Mason, I am VT, therefore Norway is scum.

Case closed.

[Ph0enix]

Obviously Ph0enix has prepped for this, while i'm more of a spontaneous and lazy guy.

That doesn't answer the question.

[Ph0enix]

Hmm. Question for both of you: if you were scum in this game, who would've you killed last night and what would have been your plan coming into today?

Salad's the obvious good choice to leave to go to LyLo because of him being suspicious the previous days.

However, given yours and Norway's, let's call it a roller coaster of an interaction on previous days, I could see you two go at each other as well.

That all ignoring the fact who the Mason is.

[Ph0enix]

And since you so strongly TR Saladman he was obviously the kill to be made.

You strongly TRed me until today, too, so him TRing Salad on previous days would not necessarily have translated into D4 as well.

[Ph0enix]

Anyway i'm not gonna sit here and waste my entire day for a newbie game LYLO. If you think Ph0enix's lies are convincing then you just need to vote me. I'm taking a break now, ciao.

But that didn't answer Datisi's question, though.

[Ph0enix]

And since you so strongly TR Saladman he was obviously the kill to be made.

You

strongly TRed me until today, too, so him TRing Salad on previous days would not necessarily have translated into D4 as well.

Phoenix, who is the bolded "you" here supposed to be?

Norway.

[Ph0enix]

I didn't get much impression that Norway was TRing Salad...

"him" in that post is you, not Norway. You were TRing Salad.

[Ph0enix]

And since you so strongly TR Saladman he was obviously the kill to be made.

You strongly TRed me until today, too, so him TRing Salad on previous days would not necessarily have translated into D4 as well.

Yeah, i figured that out, but excuse my tiredness, i must be misunderstanding this post. Could you rephrase it please?

Norway says that since you townread Salad for pretty much the whole game, it's no use keeping him alive for LyLo (if I understand correctly, of course). However, given that Norway TRed me up until this point, how can we be sure that your opinion of Salad wouldn't have changed on D4?

[Ph0enix]

No problem with him whatsoever on D1. On D2, him starting to suspect Datisi based on the sole fact that Datisi didn't want the Mason to claim I don't understand. The vote-unvote on Datisi I also didn't like. Let's proceed to the Naerys townread then, that's the key point here. Naerys had a bad start, imo. 174 I particularly do not like. Overall, not impressed by her D1. D2: quick to suspect Datisi for no good reason, quick to vote Salad as well, based solely on the evidence from D1 instead of questioning him first. Proceeds to reconsider because... reasons, I guess? So, in general, does the Norway TR on Naerys make sense? No. Why did Norway proceed to vote Naerys after townreading her for so long? I don't know.

This still stands.

856: "So Phoenix, you should probably start scum-casing me."

Said the guy who's busy posting memes.

861: "Me who immediately joined you in voting Map Wolf and stayed through with it"

You voted 4 different people on D2, what's your point?

872: "If i was scum i would have claimed mason. Just sayin, the fact that i'm not proves i'm town."

...Okay?


Will look further into the matter soon.

[Ph0enix]

Looking back, there is something interesting about Naerys's behaviour during Day 3.

I read it. Don't know what you're getting at though.

I don't know what you are referring to, either.

[Ph0enix]

Which one of you sick bastards did that

Yes.

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix, I wanna hear some of your thoughts. Like, first thing that comes to mind. Don't think too much. What's up?

Norway's cockiness fascinates me, he isn't defending himself, he isn't attacking me either. He seems so sure you're gonna vote me, idk.

[Ph0enix]

Notice how quickly Ph0enix's interest in the game faded once i got on the offensive. Now all he's got are short one liner posts, unlike his previous composed self. He knows that even he aint got a chance against an obvtown such as i.

When did you get offensive lmao

[Ph0enix]

Now all he's got are short one liner posts, unlike his previous composed self.

A lot of my previous posts are one liners, I don't always post wall of texts (although I very much am a fan of that), so I don't see what you are referring to here.

[Ph0enix]

nice nice i'm digging this

gimme some reasons why i should devinitely vote scandinavian dude over flame birb

I very much don't like his constant vote switching (especially referring to D2).

He accuses me of voting Map Wolf late even though he himself wasn't sure about Map for the most of D2 as he was busy suspecting you, Salad and also Naerys. How he suddenly stopped pushing you and started trying elsewhere I still don't get, either.

The 180 flip on Naerys makes no sense whatsoever. Either his accusation doesn't make sense, or his townread in the first place.

[Ph0enix]

Also, I don't know what Norway is trying to accomplish with this kind of "I'm not scum, you are", type of argumentation. Even if there is some kind of argumentation, it resembles something like his post 953, which is not really helpful, I find.

[Ph0enix]

I'm also lowkey angry at the idea that Ph0enix thinks i'm the easiest player to mislynch here so nothing would satisfy me more than watching him DIE.

:/

[Ph0enix]

Do i actually have to look at Nomination Mafia ughhhhhhhhhhhh

Phoenix, you have one town game on site right?

Indeed, Newbie 1973.

I don't know how to post a link, ffs.

[Ph0enix]

Do i actually have to look at Nomination Mafia ughhhhhhhhhhhh

I can sum it up for you. When i was scum in nomination mafia LYLO i spent all day arguing and begging one of the townies to vote the other, because i spent so much effort getting to that point.

Do you see me doing that here or something?

[Ph0enix]

I mean, given the fact that you say that in these two games you played differently, you being the two different factions in them, do you see me playing differently in comparison to my other game on site?

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix, i admire your persistence. But i'm not gonna talk to you. You're scum.

So be it, that's not in your favor.

[Ph0enix]

You're scum.

Ah, astute observation. Same to you.

[Ph0enix]

What i can say to my defense is, assuming i'm scum... why would scum!me immediately claim VT and go heads to toe with town!Phoenix over claiming mason and trying to convince town!Ph0enix to vote you Datisi (a much more mislynchable player)? I may play recklessly sometimes, but there's no reason why scum!me would make such a bad play.

I'm not following here, for some reason, can you rephrase that?

[Ph0enix]

He does play it safe though, as i pointed out when i first saw him. He's never done anything controversial that shows genuine resolve in solving the game, all his posts are presented very matter of factly and with some sprinkled in light questioning.

Doesn't that have to do with playstyle, though?

[Ph0enix]

Assuming i am in fact scum... why would scum!me at the beginning of D4 immediately claim VT and argue with town!Phoenix whom would be the real VT in this scenario, rather than instead fake claim mason and try to convince town!Ph0enix to vote Datisi (whom is a much more mislynchable player). Theoretical scum!me is unlikely to make the play i did today, therefore it indicates i am town.

So if you fake claim Mason:

1) I'm the real Mason and we're in the same situation we're in now
2) Datisi is Mason and I have the last word

How is that AI?

[Ph0enix]

Ignoring the last vote, you've been coasting the entire game and held few original opinions of your own. And you've never risked your neck. That is the play of someone that wants to go by unseen, not solve the game.

If I vote someone, you can be damn sure there's a good reason for it. And how did you "risk your neck", as you say? If you're referring to your votes left and right in order to obtain information, I don't see how that's more effective than my method.

[Ph0enix]

And take a look at Jackson's ISO. that is one of the most awful ISO's i've ever seen. There's nothing more than fluff.

It's not particularly good, I have to agree with that one.

[Ph0enix]

If you're referring to your votes left and right in order to obtain information,

And that isn't town indicative for you?
The mere fact that you're saying my votes were intended for information gathering suggests you know they were made with a town intention in mind. You're scumslipping.

I'm saying what you are referring to, not what I think they were for.

[Ph0enix]

If you're referring to your votes left and right in order to obtain information,

And that isn't town indicative for you?
The mere fact that you're saying my votes were intended for information gathering suggests you know they were made with a town intention in mind. You're scumslipping.

I'm saying what you are referring to, not what I think they were for.

Cause one could easily defend himself by saying that they were made in order to obtain information.

[Ph0enix]

In your case, I, for example, don't know why you stopped pushing Datisi on D2. The argument went for a few days, but then he changes his vote to Map and you're like, yeah, he's more scummy, might as well.

[Ph0enix]

You didn't answer 985. Although I may be missing your point here.

[Ph0enix]

So you also read Naerys' behavior and it suddenly didn't appear as genuine as you first thought?

[Ph0enix]

You didn't answer 985. Although I may be missing your point here.

Because i would have waited until either one of you had claimed and then gauged my opinions. Because scum or town, anyone could figure out that there would be exactly 1 town, 1 mason and one scum. So if scum waits they can choose and pick who they'd go against.

Given how cocky you are, do you really have a preference? Wouldn't you be able to "easily sway" who you have to to vote who you want?

[Ph0enix]

So you also read Naerys' behavior and it suddenly didn't appear as genuine as you first thought?

Because of possible association with Map Wolf who looked really scummy, also may i add that you scumread Naery's pretty much the whole game until i "convinced" you otherwise at some point.

Referring to which part of the game in particular?

[Ph0enix]

So you also read Naerys' behavior and it suddenly didn't appear as genuine as you first thought?

Naery's i don't like how you were completely ok with voting Saladman but now you're stalling.

True.

You're not exactly a saint either regarding Naerys. Why are you pushing this angle?

How is that convincing me otherwise? I already scumread her at that point.

[Ph0enix]

So you also read Naerys' behavior and it suddenly didn't appear as genuine as you first thought?

Because of possible association with Map Wolf who looked really scummy, also may i add that you scumread Naery's pretty much the whole game until i "convinced" you otherwise at some point.

Referring to which part of the game in particular?

The part where Naery's refused to vote Map Wolf. And the other thing that part where everyone asked me why i TR Naerys.

So in which part do you convince me otherwise, as you say in the post above?

[Ph0enix]

Are we talking about different things here or?

[Ph0enix]

There's something wrong in the village
In the village, oh

Can you hammer already, what's the point in me arguing all day with scum!Phoenix. I already know he's going to misrepresent, nitpick or deny every point i have against him.

If I have something about your points that I don't agree with, of course I'm going to say something, what?

[Ph0enix]

Just look at Jackson's ISO and decide for yourself how bad his slot was until Ph0enix did some damage control.

Oh so now you're playing that card? Now that none of the other stuff worked.

[Ph0enix]

You're pretty talkative for someone who stated he doesn't want to talk to me 2 hours prior.

[Ph0enix]

Just look at Jackson's ISO and decide for yourself how bad his slot was until Ph0enix did some damage control.

I have one other game on this site and I have examples to show why that's not a valid argument to make in order to convince someone to not vote you.

[Ph0enix]

Just look at Jackson's ISO and decide for yourself how bad his slot was until Ph0enix did some damage control.

Oh so now you're playing that card? Now that none of the other stuff worked.

Misrep^

?

[Ph0enix]

You're pretty talkative for someone who stated he doesn't want to talk to me 2 hours prior.

Yeah i don't know how you convinced me into it.

Innate charisma, what can I say.

[Ph0enix]

Just look at Jackson's ISO and decide for yourself how bad his slot was until Ph0enix did some damage control.

Oh so now you're playing that card? Now that none of the other stuff worked.

Misrep^

?

Do you think your other arguments were valid or what?

[Ph0enix]

Just look at Jackson's ISO and decide for yourself how bad his slot was until Ph0enix did some damage control.

Oh so now you're playing that card? Now that none of the other stuff worked.

Misrep^

?

Do you think your other arguments were valid or what?

Yes? What arguments are not valid?

Are we really having that discussion?

[Ph0enix]

I don't trust anything you say, so most of the time i ignore your reasoning for denouncing my arguments.
I only care about convincing Datisi.

Congratulations, you answered your own question.

Have to go now. @Datisi: If you want to hammer me, at least let me get back and then do it. If you want to hammer Norway, though, feel free to do so without me, I don't mind.

[Ph0enix]

Because i READ Datisi's behaviour and it seemed genuine, that's why i switched gears to Map Wolf who was, as i quote:

I keep thinking back on Map Wolf. No attempt at solving, just sheeping reads lists and opinions. I think Map Wolf could be a good alternative here.

If we go purely by activity as a scumtell then Map Wolf is the scummiest by far. I could see scum!him looking at the gamestate and deciding to hide in the shadows by saying absolutely nothing of value, hoping town will forget about him.

Yeah, that was after you gave up on pushing Datisi. When did you read his behavior as genuine, exactly? Cause it seems like it's you pushing him and questioning Salad, and then suddenly "I keep thinking back on Map Wolf".

[Ph0enix]

Ignoring the last vote, you've been coasting the entire game and held few original opinions of your own. And you've never risked your neck. That is the play of someone that wants to go by unseen, not solve the game.

You didn't have a problem with that until today, why bring it up now, suddenly?

[Ph0enix]

There's something wrong in the village
In the village, oh

Can you hammer already, what's the point in me arguing all day with scum!Phoenix. I already know he's going to misrepresent, nitpick or deny every point i have against him.

If I have something about your points that I don't agree with, of course I'm going to say something, what?

So scum!you would genuinely give up if i had a super strong argument? Or would you fight it.

I fight arguments which don't make sense. I don't make up stuff in order to fight legit arguments. Jackson's ISO, for example, I can't excuse.

[Ph0enix]

Ph0enix, can i call you razor from now on? Because you are one sharp scum player. Mad respect.

Razor lmao. It has a nice ring to it, I must say.

[Ph0enix]

Ignoring the last vote, you've been coasting the entire game and held few original opinions of your own. And you've never risked your neck. That is the play of someone that wants to go by unseen, not solve the game.

You didn't have a problem with that until today, why bring it up now, suddenly?

Because you went completely fell under my radar. How hard is it to understand that i went from "do not suspect Ph0enix" to: "excplicitly aware that Ph0enix is scum" and therefore analyzing your ISO much more deeply?

My point is that it sounds like "Before I didn't have a problem with your votes, but now that I think about it, I do."

[Ph0enix]

I will say that one difference i While in this game (prior to the LYLO duel with me), Razor has sounded much more robotic, reads lists with freaking flashy colours, lots of quotes referring to posts with numbers. Basically, he is

trying very hard to

appear

as town.

His opening posts are good examples of this behaviour, wall of text-y, colours, quotes with line tag, crafted meticulously.

I have made reads lists with flashy colours and lots of quotes referring to posts with numbers in the last game, as well.

[Ph0enix]

Side question: If I'm scum, why bring you to LyLo instead of killing you N1, given the fact that if we look only at D1, pretty much everyone had agreed that you are Town?

[Ph0enix]

This post is another egregious piece of fluff that i honestly don't see the point of making, look at that amount of text for an statement that could essentially be condensed down into one shorter sentence. -> 504

I wanted it to be clear what our possible scenarios are in order to better assess the situation and to make the point clear that whether the Mason should claim or not is not that obvious.

[Ph0enix]

There is a difference in tone here, you were less aggressive than you were in newbie 1973.

I believe that has to do with the fact that, unlike in 1973, here the people I suspected weren't exactly "cooperating", so to say.

GBJ? Yeah, right.
Map? There wasn't much of an interaction there, either.
Naerys? She basically gave up when we jumped on her.

While in 1973, I've had long arguments with some of the guys there. Enter and Chazary, for example.

[Ph0enix]

That seems like bussing for the sake of bussing a scum partner. Why would you "wait for replacement" and then lynch the slot?

I think he meant lynch the slot in case he doesn't provide more information, it's the same as his vote on Naerys in 173, I find.

[Ph0enix]

Map what's your opinion on ph0enix slot now?

The stuff he has posted seems townie in tone. I'm not as concerned about pressuring him now.

And then quickly giving up the idea.

You townread me as well then a few posts prior to that one, so can you blame him in this case for not wanting to vote me as of that moment?

[Ph0enix]

I think we should wait for a potential replacement and then lynch JacksonVirgo

unless there comes more content form the slot

.

Isn't it? How do you interpret it?

[Ph0enix]

I'm not saying his townread was suspicious, i'm saying it's weird how he explicitly stated wanting to wait until a replacement and THEN lynch the replacement.

Yes, because the replacement could change his opinion on the slot?

[Ph0enix]

Side question: If I'm scum, why bring you to LyLo instead of killing you N1, given the fact that if we look only at D1, pretty much everyone had agreed that you are Town?

Probably because of PR hunting, or they thought

i would look scummy enough when GBJ was mislynched

.

I don't know where you get that from, GBJ didn't do himself any favors.

[Ph0enix]

Then why didn't he say: "Let's not think about lynching the slot until we've seen what the replacement has to say." Why is it phrased so awkwardly?

I don't know, I interpret them the same way.

[Ph0enix]

Side question: If I'm scum, why bring you to LyLo instead of killing you N1, given the fact that if we look only at D1, pretty much everyone had agreed that you are Town?

Probably because of PR hunting, or they thought

i would look scummy enough when GBJ was mislynched

.

I don't know where you get that from, GBJ didn't do himself any favors.

Yeah you're right there. I think what happened is that scum looked at the gamestate and decided that Kanna's more refrained apprached signalled a PR slot and they chose her as the N1 kill.

Possible. Still I'd probably go for the most townie-seeming player by that point, you, in that case, and hope he's also one of the Masons.

[Ph0enix]

Possible. Still I'd probably go for the most townie-seeming player by that point, you, in that case,

This isn't really a point that proves your towniness, because scum!you could easily decide to go for someone else and later frame me by saying: "the reason Norwee wasn't killed on N1 is because he's mafia."

Yeah, fair point.

hope he's also one of the Masons.

I love this line, why would you speculate that the scum would: "hope he's one of the masons" unless scum!you was at that point, acutely aware that the town PR's were likely to be masons, and you're bringing that memory with you here and not concealing it?

I'll admit, I completely forgot that we didn't know what the setup was until Kanna was killed N1. "hope he's one of the PRs" is more accurate. Also, how would I be aware that the town PRs are Masons, exactly?

[Ph0enix]

But you using me not remembering that fact against me is fair enough, I must say. Well played.

[Ph0enix]

I completely forgot that we didn't know what the setup was until Kanna was killed N1.

And you would forget this because?

Because we've known the setup for most of the game, and me joining even later on D1 makes it an even bigger percentage of the whole experience in comparison to most of the other players that participate(d).

[Ph0enix]

Razor is a blunt saw.
Are you admitting your guilt?

Yeah, right.
Come at me.

[Ph0enix]

I completely forgot that we didn't know what the setup was until Kanna was killed N1.

And you would forget this because?

Because we've known the setup for most of the game, and me joining even later on D1 makes it an even bigger percentage of the whole experience in comparison to most of the other players that participate(d).

I don't buy it.

I couldn't care less if you buy it or not, tbh.

[Ph0enix]

Also, how would I be aware that the town PRs are Masons, exactly?

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

What dirt? So far it's been you throwing arguments, me defending myself, and you continuing to the next when you see an argument is full of shit in the first place.

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

If you were so sure Datisi wouldn't vote you upon rereading as you said in the beginning of D4, you wouldn't have had to dig up dirt in the first place. You're not so sure anymore who Datisi's going to vote.

[Ph0enix]

Also, how would I be aware that the town PRs are Masons, exactly?

Because if the scum team consists of a mafia goon/mafia goon setup which i heavily suspect to be the case, it is 1/3 likely that the town PR's are masons. And scum!you would be on the lookout for it.

So?

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

What dirt? So far it's been you throwing arguments, me defending myself, and you continuing to the next when you see an argument is full of shit in the first place.

Well no, most of your defenses are mediocre and doesn't decidedly prove that i'm wrong.

Merely you pointing out: "oh but in a theoretical world i could be town here!"

doesn't completely invalidate what i say.

What?

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

If you were so sure Datisi wouldn't vote you upon rereading as you said in the beginning of D4, you wouldn't have had to dig up dirt in the first place. You're not so sure anymore who Datisi's going to vote.

You keep your nose clean. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly what you've done that can be considered 100% scum indicative. That's why i keep digging in your ISO because i'm trying to win. Also my confidence is a tactic, not necessarily the truth.

Hm, still can't help but see a change of tone over the course of the day.

[Ph0enix]

Anyway apparently Datisi has made up his mind so there's no point wasting anymore time. I still think you scum-slipped with your comment about why scum would target Kanna earlier.

So be it.

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

If you were so sure Datisi wouldn't vote you upon rereading as you said in the beginning of D4, you wouldn't have had to dig up dirt in the first place. You're not so sure anymore who Datisi's going to vote.

You keep your nose clean. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly what you've done that can be considered 100% scum indicative. That's why i keep digging in your ISO because i'm trying to win. Also my confidence is a tactic, not necessarily the truth.

You're still contradicting yourself given early-D4-Norway as opposed to your attitude now. First, I'm definitely scum and Datisi has to only reread the game to understand that, and now you have to "dig up dirt" in order to prove your point. Tactic, you say? I'm not sure it's working out as intended.

[Ph0enix]

@Datisi: If you have any concerns about me, I'll be more than happy to address them as I'm not too confident who you're going to pick.

[Ph0enix]

Datisi is that enough for you? Do i need to keep digging up all the dirt i can find on this guy?

If you were so sure Datisi wouldn't vote you upon rereading as you said in the beginning of D4, you wouldn't have had to dig up dirt in the first place. You're not so sure anymore who Datisi's going to vote.

You keep your nose clean. So it's hard to pinpoint exactly what you've done that can be considered 100% scum indicative. That's why i keep digging in your ISO because i'm trying to win. Also my confidence is a tactic, not necessarily the truth.

You're still contradicting yourself given early-D4-Norway as opposed to your attitude now. First, I'm definitely scum and Datisi has to only reread the game to understand that, and now you have to "dig up dirt" in order to prove your point. Tactic, you say? I'm not sure it's working out as intended.

It's not a contradiction as it is a change of heart. And why is that scummy exactly.
Anyway i've seen enough out of you. And i thought you felt the discussion was over.
Are you perhaps nervous about losing since you're restarting the discussion?

I'm just saying your confidence is a facade that isn't working in your favor.
The discussion hasn't stopped in order for me to restart it. With "so be it" I was referring to you thinking I scum-flipped.

[Ph0enix]

I was referring to you thinking I scum-flipped.

I meant scum-slipped. But you're right. That's exactly what i'm thinking. You're going to scumflip.

* scum-slipped

My bad.

[Ph0enix]

*Freudian slip

Ok.

[Ph0enix]

Oh btw Razor, regardless of what happens next. I hope you didn't find this argument unpleasant or anything to that effect. I think you're a genuinely cool guy and i wish we were on the same alignment, but unfortunately we're not.

Same to you. You are also a pain in the ass to deal with, I like it.

May we play again soon, hopefully we're on the same team next time.

[Ph0enix]

Gotta say this since i feel kinda bad about Naerys feeling like she doesn't want to play with me anymore.

Nah, she'll get over it.

[Ph0enix]

Well played guys, it was a pleasure.

[Ph0enix]

Can I please be put out of my misery here?

Let's just say that I have some bad news for your LyLo record.

[Ph0enix]

I think D3 was probably what ultimately lost this for town

I should have tried harder to persuade
But i doubt it would work.

I mean, worst case scenario - you still get lynched. Otherwise, you succeed in convincing someone you're Town, so I don't know why you gave up so easily.

[Ph0enix]

like literally I now know why I died

Why did you guys kill kanna? PR hunting?

Nah, we wanted a player who is considered Town after the events of D1. Kanna was one of the options. Norway was the other, as he was considered Town by pretty much everybody by that point, but he, unlike Kanna, had lingering suspicions about Non (plus, Non wasn't exactly helping himself with his weird behavior, either) which we figured would lead to a Norway push on Non on D2 that would snowball to a mislynch.

Also mod told us in dead thread scum changed NK to me 1 hr before deadline and if I'm not wrong, it was norway so our plan to nk bait norway almost worked SMHSMHSMHSMSH

Yeah, Map let me have the final word on that one and I changed it from Norway to you with a bit of time on the deadline left.

[Ph0enix]

Also, were the Non and Salad kills actually attempts at the Mason?

Yes. On N3 you were the last person I thought would be Mason, so, good one.

[Ph0enix]

Not gonna lie, Datisi freaking out in the Mason PT made my day.

But to be fair, I probably would've freaked out as well had I been in the same situation, so...