Newbie 1976 Dead PT

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noice

thanks xtoxm!

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I think GBJ is town and so is Datisi

salad is my top bet for scum atm

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Datisi is also town

I know it to be true

Don’t try to wifom me xtoxm

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Oh wait you said that because they lynched him not to wifom me lmao

I’m kinda drunk

Gbj was a terrible lynch he was super obvtown

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Mapwolf I’d probably scum if he didn’t defend gbj

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Hi Kanna

I still need to give you feedback for that other game, although you’re doing well enough to be N1 killed so maybe you don’t need it

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I only glanced and didn’t read anything since I last posted here but I think Phoenix could be scum

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Tentatively TRing datisi and Norway

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Lmao I’m just sorting on post count here tho

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Lmao I’m just sorting on post count here tho

ive had limited success with these. pretty much in line with random, probably. i think theres merit to it for certain players, but you have to apply it carefully.

I think it’s probably more valid for datisi than for Norway fwiw

I don’t think she’s normally this engaged as scum, and I think postcount is a good measure of engagement for her

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Norway being top poster specifically makes me feel like he’s plausibly town as I’ve only seen him step into a leader sort of role when he has been town

I’d like to actually read this if I have time tho, and try to give informed scumreads

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non is a mason
Datisi is locktownable
Norway is probably town but as always his scumhunting leaves something to be desired

So then there were 3

I actually think Naerys is more likely town than scum here, but hard to call. It’s one of those TSTBS moments where the refusal to hammer and absolute lack of justification for TRing MW is so awful that it seems like scum wouldn’t do it? Should still be the lynch tomorrow anyway as policy

Of salad and Phoenix I guess I would lean salad but not sure. Can be resolved if naerys flips town

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Mapwolf I’d probably scum if he didn’t defend gbj

Boom goes the dynamite

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Ugh I’m gonna disregard what I just said and say town should lynch salad, he looks worst here associatively

Also my heart says naerys is town, so there’s that

If wrong then probably just lynch naerys but not w/o examining Norway and Phoenix more closely

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I really hope it’s salad bc trying to find the scum in a Norway/naerys/Phoenix 3p lylo would be awful

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I’ll be p surprised if it’s not salad tbh

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Also I guess partly I want the ego of having had basically perfect SRs this game if it’s salad

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of the entire game?

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Guess I’m wrong on salad then

Hmmmm

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Maybe it is Phoenix?

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Could be norway still don’t believe it’s dats

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I personally disagree with not counterclaiming a fake claim but I guess it worked out here

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Like if you fail to lynch scum without it then CCing the next day looks awful and I think is probably -EV for town

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Oh, norway is the mason, duhdoy

U dumb mena

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Salad->naerys/Phoenix

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Oh wait no it can’t be norway bc of dead thread?

Why tf else was he pushing for massclaim then??

I thought kanna’d “norway is obvtown” thing in her final readslist was indicating he was the mason, which would also have explained him calling for a mass claim bc that would let mason him reveal and lynch scum

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I'm surprised it worked out, but it did. Scum just NKed a sure fire mislynch, I feel, by not picking up on the real mason.

Tbf spotting the real mason is difficult this game

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Not making the CC is making me think a newbie is the mason partner

I feel like datisi or norway should have CC’d there as it’s the correct play

Someone should tell non that fake claiming here as town is +scum on average

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Phoenix is mason?

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Phoenix or dats makes most sense, Phoenix makes more sense given lack of CC

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Norway or salad I guess

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I've been told that before.

lol hi dats

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Because I'm feeling attacked for not good reason?

What do you think about Map Wolf?
I think Non is town, but Map´s staying out of wagon could be suspicious.

This is such a weird fucking move for scum!naerys to make

Esp then not following it up by hammering later?

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I think naerys is p town at this point

So

Naerys, dats, phoenix
Salad, Norway

I think game is won lynching in (salad, norway)

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Rn I’d lynch norway > salad actually

But again I just feel he plays so scummy as town that it’s hard to judge

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Post 69 is mine, hey-oooooo

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See this is the type of game when I start questioning if I’m overthinking it and scum really are super blatant or if I’m right and scum are trying to be more subtle

I don’t like that norway has significantly backpedaled his naerys read ever since they became a viable mislynch

Also think there’s some strong anti-partner stuff (like post 174/175 in main thread) that I think it’s comparatively unlikely newbies would try to fake

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Me being super suspicious of Datisi makes sense.
Non Imh is the mason, i townread Naerys and Phoenix. That makes scum

one

of Saladman, Map Wolf and Datisi.
And if Datisi is scum he’ll be the most threatening player in LYLO.

Is this a scum slip lol?

Norway is like obvscum in iso, the only problem is that he’s also capable of being obvscum when he’s town

I’d lynch norway today tho

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Partly as policy if I’m honest — if he flipped town I think I’d trust myself to sort more objectively between the others in 3p

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via Imgflip Meme Generator

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I may have fucked up the link first time but it got me a pagetop so

You know

Win some lose some

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Also why????

Is everyone assuming salad????

Is the mason????????????

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I think that if I’m right and Norway is scum there is a not insignificant chance that town loses tomorrow

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I think that from outside POV, 3p lylo with mason is winning if it’s Phoenix or salad and norway kills the wrong one bc dats should never be lynched this game

If mason DOES get killed tonight after they mislynch naerys then prooooobably salad/dats is better than Phoenix/dats? But it’s quite good either way actually, only because datisi in particular is resistant to killling salad

I think this should be game if it’s norway scum the more I think about it, bc from his POV he knows that datisi is more likely to vote him than salad so he needs to NK salad

But then if Phoenix is (as I think) mason, I think he should hopefully get it right and vote norway > dats

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Rn, I think the whole game is really getting heated up. I'd like to ask Norway why you're so confident the Non is the mason?

This felt mason-y from salad

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I will be fucking astonished if norway is town

Then again, I’ve said that before and he’s flipped town

Still

A s t o n i s h e d

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I think I have an idea of who the mason is, but I still think the person should claim (at least before the end of the day), since we risk having scum claim mason tomorrow, leaving us in a bad spot.

So you also don't think it's Non, I'll assume? Why not?

Readslist, as promised

What's your reasoning behind having 3 scumreads with 2 scum being alive?

Because I find 3 people scummy? That doesn't mean they all are, obviously.

These feel like non-partner posts

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Phoenix has good tone if scum

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Datisi is cleared on play/tone I think

Naerys just feels guileless and like they don’t really have an agenda + anti-partner posts re:map i think (also they seem likely to be the lynch today and map is suggesting here that the game is open fhpov which means it’s prob not naerys from an angle shooty pov)

Salad is probably my best guess at mason clear here, but if not coooooould be scum for lack of solviness. Rly hoping he’s mason tho. Agree with dats that 575 makes v little sense for scum!salad

Phoenix has I think one or two anti-partner things and generally reads like town but could just be naturally good — prob should die if I’m wrong on norway

Norway is v v prob scum I think. Bad progression (awful) around naerys. Bad shitpush on dats that other people also saw as illogical. Was very accepting of non’s claim making him mason followed by a mason kill (this is similar for Phoenix tbf). Does feel like he has an agenda with his posting

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Kanna how am I doing on mason spec?

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Oh wait mason could be datisi

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also

mason thread is hilarious

me and map on opposite sides of the coin rn

This makes me wonder if it’s dats as she’ll post to herself

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She seemed too accepting of non’s claim tho?

Salad > dats > Phoenix for mason, Norway and Naerys impossible due to kanna’s team spec in dead thread

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You can just put close or not close in a spoiler

I feel like xtoxm would be most likely to troll datisi tbh

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Ahhh i guess that probably is just a straight spoiler in a pool of 3 tho lol

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Who do you think is scum, kanna?

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Totally honest, idk. Kinda want to reread with what map said about the game being "wide open" in mind.

Would recommend that to improve you read trying not to think about that and then use it to guide you if you still feel lost/between two options

Also the extent to which people follow games after dying varies wildly

I’m just here bc I liked the playerlist tbh

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Also map was dead by that point so I have a theory on what it implies but will hold back on saying it for if you decide to have a closer look at the game

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Welll

That was predictable

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Town deserves to lose after lynching obvtown twice imo

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Town played awfully this day phase

Like they learned absolutely fuck all and by just going for consensus scum (whoever it is, datisi actually sounded kinda weird at the very end even if she’s still locktown) scum was able to blend in perfectly and essentially get two free kills and to arrive in lylo

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I think norway is very probably the final scum

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I think you played fine ftr naerys

Scum just had a major incentive to push you bc you looked scummy at the surface level, and town should have been more open to reconsidering

I think if there’s one thing that loses town games it’s the inability to break out of a tunnel/reconsider the evidence neutrally once there’s more of it

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Yeah I think p strongly that scum is between Norway and Phoenix rn

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i think salad probably has to die tonight

I would be very surprised if norway brought Phoenix and salad to lylo

But like maybe he thinks salad would vote datisi > him?

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Whereas Phoenix is just flying utr

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I think you played fine ftr naerys

Scum just had a major incentive to push you bc you looked scummy at the surface level, and town should have been more open to reconsidering

I think if there’s one thing that loses town games it’s the inability to break out of a tunnel/reconsider the evidence neutrally once there’s more of it

Thanks.
I actually kinda asked myself, why we considered Norway town. That argument with Datisi was weird. And from my previous game i know, that it is good chance that in such conflict could be scum involved.

Bc he’s producing lots of content and that tends to get TR for a while

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I doubt NK is datisi as any of the other three is in a position to push her if they want to

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You are correct but what you don’t know is that Norway is entirely capable of open wolfing when he is, in fact, town

So from anyone else his play would be slam dunkable as scum, but from him it’s only “most likely” fmpov

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Tbf if scum play optimally no one should die

I just don’t trust them to play optimally

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That was kinda smort but I wouldn’t in general recommend lying about your reads

They might be but it will vary by person, so it’s not a reliable way to see if someone is scummy

I think one incriminating thing for Norway is that the NKs seem to v much be mason hunting so far, and yet norway (the person listed as towniest in your reads) hasn’t been killed. Even with claims, that’s odd

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Also you’re welcome!

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Also question for Map, why were you like "I don't think non is mason" and then kill them anyway?

I did think he was mason. If I said I didn't think so in MT, then I must've lied.

this is what we were thinking of Map:

I think I have an idea of who the mason is, but I still think the person should claim (at least before the end of the day), since we risk having scum claim mason tomorrow, leaving us in a bad spot.

So you also don't think it's Non, I'll assume? Why not?

No I think it's Non, but I could be wrong on that.

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did scum submit NK via PT? if so, what do you think of it? is it the same choice you would have made if you were still alive?

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You'll get better

it's a really common mistake to make as scum and generally it's hard to come back from because you're already caught at that point

it's happened to most of us at one point or another

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If norway is town then town deserves to lose

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I haven’t read since daystart other than to check who the mason was but yeah

Fair play to phoenix, I would already have voted Norway probably

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Datisi is amazing, and gets like extra amazing when you share a PT with her

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How hard is she freaking out in the mason PT about once again being the deciding lylo voter?

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If Phoenix is scum he’s played excellently and if Norway is town he’s played horribly

Like in most cases Norway is just scum for how he played

Unless we have a good reason to believe we’re not in one of those “most cases” scenarios, he should just be lynched

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It goes without saying of course, that these decisions are infinitely easier to call when you have no skin in the game and are just observing

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I have a theory on norway that is thus:

If I find him insanely scummy from the beginning of the game he’s probably town

If I initially townread him he’s probably scum

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Assuming he does flip scum here

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Yeah, that speedlynch was very dumb, but hindsight is 20/20 eh

AHEM

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Which one of you sick bastards did that

Norway

The answer is norway

The kanna kill was PR hunting and Phoenix has been on the forums for about a month and was much more likely to just kill a big scary town voice

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Okay maybe I am confbiasing a bit but I still think my read is solid as I only started on that sweet sweet line of confbias after I’d neutrally reached the conclusion that Norway was scum

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Also i spent the last night being awake

and i just set my alarm 10 minutes ago to check if i died or not

So I'm still bit groggy and might just go back to bed for now

mood tbh

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I suspected Map Wolf early in this game. Look at post 36 and 37.

Oh, you mean that suspicion on page 2 that you

literally unvoted a page later

means you can’t be partners?

UNVOTE:
I like Map’s response. Feel like scum!him would have voted me there rather than just defending and taking the opportunity to also criticize Datisi.

Yeah, yeah, checks out

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Datisi please stop talking to scum and just hammer him

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Datisi why does your new avi look so much like King Leonidas

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hmmmmm the mod is online, i could just end all of our suffering right now

but i won't

Mutual trolling lmao

I knew I should have trusted more in my datisi gutread when kanna said you were trolling the buddy in the mason pt

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Well, I mean, obviously I didn’t *know*

But yeah

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She does not

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How hard is she freaking out in the mason PT about once again being the deciding lylo voter?

Very hard

lol

Just wait for her reaction when she finds out I specced this game since D2

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These kinds of endings must really suck as town since you really have to just trust your own instinct.

This is actually not what you should do — you should ideally try to ignore as much as what happens in lylo as possible and dedicate yourself to re-examining as neutrally as possible the actions of the players you’re in lylo with prior to lylo itself

You should also be thinking about — or at least considering — why you’re in lylo, and why the other players would be there as town

Disclaimed: I’m terrible at actually doing these in lylo, but for people who are good at them lylo is much harder for scum than if you base the call on instinct and/or lylo play

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Assuming i am in fact scum... why would scum!me at the beginning of D4 immediately claim VT and argue with town!Phoenix whom would be the real VT in this scenario, rather than instead fake claim mason and try to convince town!Ph0enix to vote Datisi (whom is a much more mislynchable player). Theoretical scum!me is unlikely to make the play i did today, therefore it indicates i am town.

...bc you knew mason was likely crumbed (and potentially by their partner) and you weren’t so would inevitably lose if you CC’d a mason claim that had a D1 crumb behind it?

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Well, this post is something worth looking at:

VOTE: Norwegian
Don't really like 67 and 75. I don't see how GBJ finding you suspicious makes him scum.

Sure he unvoted immediately, but that's definitely not something a scum partner would do.
There's also more i mentioned earlier today.

As for scumtells on Ph0enix

it's a bit of a challenge since he has been playing very smartly by bussing his teammate with a vote when Map Wolf's wagon reached L-2.

He also has managed to keep up a very good progression, honestly i'm impressed by it. He does play it safe though, as i pointed out when i first saw him. He's never done anything controversial that shows genuine resolve in solving the game, all his posts are presented very matter of factly and with some sprinkled in light questioning.
What i can say to my defense is, assuming i'm scum... why would scum!me immediately claim VT and go heads to toe with town!Phoenix over claiming mason and trying to convince town!Ph0enix to vote you Datisi (a much more mislynchable player)? I may play recklessly sometimes, but there's no reason why scum!me would make such a bad play. It's a situation scum!Ph0enix took advantage of to make me look bad.

Only you explicitly said you thought this was an obvious bus bc of the timing, so really it’s not a good bus at all? A much better bus was to get on second

Also, suggesting that lylo should be decided based on who bussed and not on general play is a straight up scumclaim

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Datisi

please

lynch obvscum

I am mentally, nay,

psychically

sending you the message that norway is scum and your next post should be a hammer

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I don’t think even norway scumclaims this much when he’s town

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There are some things I need to sleep on. I just lost one lylo, I don't want to lose another.

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I kinda think it’s Phoenix; his arguments are a bit messy compared to Norway’s. also he’s like completely on the defence while Norway’s on the attack? Doesn’t seem as confident in his own innocence as Norway is

Imo scum are significantly more likely to be aggressive in lylo compared to town

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Which kind of makes sense: if you’re scum, you’ve been being scummy all game and you know the person you’re trying to get mislynched has been being towny (the least possible if you’ve selected them for a mislynch, but they’ve at a minimum been doing everything from a towny mindset) and therefore it’s a big risk to scum to allow the 3rd player with the deciding vote to neutrally evaluate the evidence and make a decision because, again, you’ve been acting to a scum win condition all game and that probably shows. So as scum, you’re very incentivised to be offensive and try to control the narrative of the game, vs town who KNOW they’ve been town all game and believe it should show through.

Either way, as already mentioned, trying to read based on the lylo itself is generally a bad idea vs trying to make your reads based on their play throughout the entire game.

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oh i see, its bit confusing

It’s 5 now

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Also I do think he scumslipped eg why would I kill Kanna instead of you? that’s a clumsy argument and doesn’t point to Norway anyway? One of you guys killed me

Why do you think this is a scumslip?

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@Mena; those are good points. Do you still think it’s Norway rn?

Yes, pretty strongly

I just reread phoenix in iso and I think his call outs on map come out at odd times to be a partner

I also trust other people who are SRing as confirmations of what I think are scummy behaviours

Am I certain? No.

Am I confident enough that I would have voted for him by now? Yes

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If Phoenix

is

scum I think he’s played excellently, for the record.

I see the possibility of him being lurky/quiet scum who’s been letting town take the heat for pushes but then that’s town’s fault for not pushing him more earlier. I think the Map Wolf vote was good and I don’t think it was at all inevitable at that point. To me the half-push on naerys (who Norway had been townreading throughout up to that point, and that he gave up as soon as it was called out) when Map Wolf started building makes me think that was a bus that he second guessed, more than I think Map Wolf’s L-1 was a bus

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Do you remember which page it was?

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I think norway is making huge stretches to try and paint any little thing that phoenix has done all game as scummy

It’s possible that that’s just town who’s now conf!biased from knowing that they’re against conf!scum

But I think it looks very scummy to be trying to spin things that I think are very NAI for Phoenix into reasons that he’s scum

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But I do know who she wants to vote

Please, god, tell me it’s Norway

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But you using me not remembering that fact against me is fair enough, I must say. Well played.

This is what you mean? I think this is a towny response, especially considering what it’s in relation to:

Possible. Still I'd probably go for the most townie-seeming player by that point, you, in that case,

This isn't really a point that proves your towniness, because scum!you could easily decide to go for someone else and later frame me by saying: "the reason Norwee wasn't killed on N1 is because he's mafia."

hope he's also one of the Masons.

I love this line,

why would you speculate that the scum would: "hope he's one of the masons" unless scum!you was at that point, acutely aware that the town PR's were likely to be masons, and you're bringing that memory with you here and not concealing it

?

This is really bad imo, bc there’s no reason to think that Phoenix would have been assuming a mason over either of the other two roles that you could have been given what scum knew at the time. In fact there was only a 33% chance of it being a mason set up, so assuming that doesn’t make any sense from phoenix’s pov.

The fact that Norway is trying to paint that, something which clearly makes no sense when considered for half a second, into something that paints Phoenix as scummy who “remembered” killing you because he thought you were a mason vs just a general PR, is very scummy imo.