TM2020 | Untrod Tripod Destroys Anime! | Endgame
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- mastina
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That's the Scum's job.In post 23, ofrhz wrote:I've already lost interest in this discussion about UT destroying anime
Why don't we all just vote Jingle instead?- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Will get back to you on this.In post 52, Jingle wrote:
OH!In post 11, mastina wrote:Hi guys I am a mason.
I have some damaged brickwork in the NW corner of my new house. Can you give me an estimate? I think there's 4 bricks that need to be replaced.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Mate I was too busy cramming in 20 scummy noms before their deadline. I didn't do that, not least of all because I was expecting to get town in all games anyway but especially my own.In post 71, Jingle wrote:mastina, what's your pre-event write-up about me?- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Sssh Mena, we're meant to keep that secret.In post 75, Menalque wrote:Hi, I am a mason with mastina- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Fun fact, I haven't checked my pt because SOME fuck decided to make the stupid ass decision to make this forum unreadable when not logged in despite literally every single past team mafia allowing that and my playstyle being heavily reliant on reading offline so whoever made that call gave me a big huge gigantic fuck you, due to it utterly fucking up my approach. It's literally FORCING me to phonepost, which I can not switch tabs in to check in with my teammates.In post 100, jjh927 wrote:
I dunno if we're actually reading each others' games yet tbhIn post 93, Menalque wrote:Does skitter have any early gut reads @jjh
Skitter mostly was just a bit more confused than I was about certain flavour things
The moment I had the horrific realization that this forum required to log in, I realized that my effectiveness in tm would be literally 25% of what it otherwise would be. (Yes, 75% of my skills come from offline reading. Anyone who knows me well can verify that, and thus can confirm that team mafia forum requiring that you log in is a big gigantic fuck you to me.)- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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jjh is going to be nightkilled a good solid 40% of the time here.In post 106, Menalque wrote:Although realistically I think I may just try to get a read on mastina and then sheep her on you
Jingle is a nightkill 80% of the time here.
The only reasons why those percentages aren't higher is due to the presence of legends such as hito.
This, I actually DID talk to my team about and can share with you once I am home from dance.- mastina
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I for one have no doubts about my role.In post 123, jjh927 wrote:In seriousness I am, for once, torn over whether or not I should be claiming a thing now as a mechanically optimal play- mastina
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Shit, better combine them then.In post 158, Jingle wrote:It's okay, mastina, he already slipped not masons with you when he said he had to get a read on you before sheeping you on jj.
We know you're in separate masonries.- mastina
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AlsoVOTE: Bitmap.
This is rc coaching a scumbuddy on how to play scum.- mastina
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Sorry but fearmongering off of RC's scumhunting prowess in a game that is this stacked with talented players isn't something which will keep me from pursuing scumreads.In post 170, Bitmap wrote:mastina, trying to lynch my hydra out of the game on D1 is very pro-scum.
Or blatantly conftown.In post 183, Alisae wrote:honestly I'm not worried about mastina she'll be blatantly town or not blatantly town
Anyway, am home, so can share the stuff I said before:
Flavor LeafRCEngima Something_SmartJingle
^This is singlehandedly the best team in the game bar none and Jingle in particular is a godsend. Flavor Leaf doesn't really contribute anything to this game to be honest, but 3/4 top-tier players is still more than enough. They are probably going to eat the nightkill as a consequence. Like, solidly 80+% N1 nightkill, but even if not a very likely N2+ nightkill.
davesaz Formerfish Elsa JayGamma Emerald
^Honestly none of these players strike me as particularly nightkillable.
popsofctown wgeurtschennisdenAlisae
^Everyone on this team is incredibly nightkillable. Honestly the main reason why they wouldn't be nightkilled is just because there are higher priority nightkills + Alisae's natural toxicity could make the scumteam decide to leave em alive. But the natural skill of pops et all might be enough to counterbalance that.
Vex Vience okapokatrischemist1422
^Nobody in this team strikes me as particularly nightkillable.
MariaR KrazyDunnstralShadoweh
^Everyone on this team is amazing so they are a very high priority nightkill, the only reason they wouldn't die is if someone who is an even HIGHER priority nightkill died first.
Gammagooey KittyMo Plumhitogoroshi
^If Jingle's team isn't the best, it would be purely because hito's team would be. They are legends, oldguard but incredibly good at the game. The one and only reason they wouldn't die is if the scumteam were made of newbs who weren't familiar with them.
CephrirDeasVail BellaphantKlick
^Klick is honestly a bit of a weak link on the team whichprobablykeeps him alive, but there's a chance he dies due to the sheer skill of the team overall.
RadiantCowbells northsidegal GuyInFreezerBitmap
^Similar to the Klick team, solid overall but Bitmap is hands-down the weak link. Probably going to live but chance to die to remove the likes of RC/nsg.
Volpe14Pisskop teacherOfrhz
^Why would anyone from this team be nightkilled? Nobody on it is worth it.
gobbledygookbob3141 EspressoPatronumMenalque
^Menalque is the best player from this team hands-down. There's a small risk that he dies, but my money's on him living simply due to other players presenting a larger, more credible threat.
skitter30 mathdino Almost50jjh927
^This is a God-tiered team and is going to eat a nightkill guaranteed.
Farkran DongempireNaClKerset
^Nobody on this team is worth removing from the game via nightkill.
So that's my basic rundown there.- mastina
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Easy win: don't fucking lynch one of the best damn players in the game who is one of your key power roles.In post 190, Menalque wrote:Can we win- mastina
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Free tip: bashing on me is the worst possible strategy for dissuading me, particularly because you're guilty of the very thing that you're accusing hito of doing.In post 197, Bitmap wrote:mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.
Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.
Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.
Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.- mastina
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I'm not gonna say delusionally that I will die N1, but it is a given that the only way I don't eat a nightkill eventually is if we lynch all the scum before they get the chance to off me.In post 205, Bitmap wrote:
only if mastina doesn't reach endgameIn post 204, Alisae wrote:
don't get into this fight with mastinaIn post 197, Bitmap wrote:mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.
Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.
Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.
Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Quite the opposite; I have incredible respect for his talent regardless of his alignment and it is this respect which contributes to my scumread on his slot.In post 219, Klick wrote:Mastina, I take it you don't consider RC to be a particularly strong Mafia player?
There's multiple reasons for the scumread so it is not exclusively respect-driven, but one of the many contributing factors to the scumread is that respect.- mastina
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Well Bitmap is a given.In post 234, Klick wrote:So mastina, who is the scum,
My first instinct for a second is Kerset; if I had to guess a third it'd be you.
But I'm not gonna delude myself into pretending that that is in any way remotely a likely solve, considering
-It is, by far, too obvious, and,
-It is also a solve made up exclusively of the weaker players in this game, which defies probability.
In all probability, there's going to be at least one strong player who rolled scum, e.g. hito, Jingle, jjh, Shadoweh, etc. But I sure as fuck won't be able to catch them on D1 so instead of focusing on trying to catch the strong scum that I'll never identify, my efforts are best spent honing in on the weaker scum who I CAN identity.- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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BTW to give a basic rundown of where I'm at:
I am deliberately avoiding trying to read Jingle and jjh. Those are reads I trust to be sorted out with time, and trying would be a waste of time right now.
I am unintentionally doing the same for Ali--Jingle and jjh I adapted this approach deliberately for, but I realized that I unintentionally subconsciously started treating Ali the same way, putting no effort into reading em.
It is alarming that I cannot remember Gamma posting, so there's a chance that he's scum as a result.
Menalque and Chemist are my only real townreads.
Hito I am ambivalent about, but lean town overall.
Shadoweh is also ambivalent, but with zero leaning.
I haven't been able to get a read on ofhrz yet, but unlike Ali that's not due to lack of trying, he's just an utter blank.
And I mentioned my scumreads.- mastina
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Because both you and hito are missing context; Menalque understands what I was referring to and given that I was speaking to Mena, I had no need to clarify because the intended recipient of my message understands without such a need.In post 238, Klick wrote:
I'm just confused about this being something you consider posting while also making this push, considering your respect for RC's play:In post 193, mastina wrote:
Easy win: don't fucking lynch one of the best damn players in the game who is one of your key power roles.In post 190, Menalque wrote:Can we win
In post 191, mastina wrote:
Sorry but fearmongering off of RC's scumhunting prowess in a game that is this stacked with talented players isn't something which will keep me from pursuing scumreads.In post 170, Bitmap wrote:mastina, trying to lynch my hydra out of the game on D1 is very pro-scum.- mastina
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I changed my mind; the ambivalence about Shadoweh has changed from no lean into a townlean.
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BTW to give a brief rundown of the scumread on Bitmap, from strongest reason to weakest:
Blatant projection (guilty of the very thing Bitmap was accusing hito of to a degree far, far more blatant and worse than any of hito's), gut from the chosen approach to the game, where Bitmap is focusing, respect for RC's competency, and vague but most definitely unreliable memory of meta (this not being how I remember Bitmap being as town/feeling like what I remember as being closer to Bitmaps scumgame but as I said, this is weakest for damn good reason).- mastina
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There's no inconsistency.In post 258, Klick wrote:
I don't see how this addresses the apparent inconsistency? Maybe it wasn't clear enough.In post 252, mastina wrote:Because both you and hito are missing context; Menalque understands what I was referring to and given that I was speaking to Mena, I had no need to clarify because the intended recipient of my message understands without such a need.
Mastina: 'Don't vote out one of the best players in this game'
Also Mastina: 'I have a ton of respect for RC as a player'
Also Mastina: 'We should vote RC's teammate Day 1'
I was talking to Menalque and making a reference.
I do hold a ton of respect for RC as a player.
But RC is not the player in this game and even if he were he isn't one of the best town players in the game; Jingle, jjh, hito, and maybes in the form of Shadoweh and Menalque are all his equals or superiors.
And even if he were.
Even if he was the best town player in the game.
My initial statement was making a reference to something for Mena; it is not something directly applicable to my stances this game. Because. Like I said. I was talking to Mena specifically there. Making a reference Mena would understand. A reference directed to a specific playwr , is obviously not something which will reflect my stances this game.
That should've been obvious enough.- mastina
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Can't multiquote on my phone, but next post should be plenty proof:In post 267, ofrhz wrote:
What accusation?In post 256, mastina wrote:guilty of the very thing Bitmap was accusing hito of to a degree far- mastina
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Guess what Bitmap has been doing?In post 143, Bitmap wrote:hito is trying way too hard to be town and his tone sounds like scum trying to look town.
I asked him about Jingle but he told me he's too busy playing Fire Emblem.
Exactly what Bitmap accused hito of doing:
Trying way, way, WAY too hard to look town, without actually being town.
Bitmap is doing a bunch of :busywork:, but none of it is actually scumhunting, none of it is sincere. It reeks of being scum trying to look town by putting effort in, but it is very, very obviously forced.- mastina
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By the way, Bitmap's iso is more than rife enough with content for me to actually case it to better show what I mean.In post 272, mastina wrote:
Guess what Bitmap has been doing?In post 143, Bitmap wrote:hito is trying way too hard to be town and his tone sounds like scum trying to look town.
I asked him about Jingle but he told me he's too busy playing Fire Emblem.
Exactly what Bitmap accused hito of doing:
Trying way, way, WAY too hard to look town, without actually being town.
Bitmap is doing a bunch of :busywork:, but none of it is actually scumhunting, none of it is sincere. It reeks of being scum trying to look town by putting effort in, but it is very, very obviously forced.
But this should be obvious enough to anyone who bothers to actually read Bitmap's iso. Reading what I wrote and then reading the iso will show you better than I ever could explain it, but if you're too lazy to check, it ain't too hard to show especially given the short game length.- mastina
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You won't, because it is an obvious waste of time, and Bitmap is well aware that it is a waste of time. A waste of time which suggesting looking into is something that sounds productive but which actually isn't.In post 276, ofrhz wrote:
Looking back, I'm not sure why jjh thinks Jingle's vote on him wasn't just randomIn post 45, jjh927 wrote:Yeah but I thought you would have thought voting me would be dumb unless it was part of some scheme
I'm not really getting reads from rereading this interaction though- mastina
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mastina SheFalse Prophet
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Also fuck not giving this read.
I didn't mean to develop it and deliberately was trying to avoid making it but it formed anyway in spite of my protests.
Jingle is town.
I would prefer to keep my reasoning for why to myself given just how stupid my revelation on the read is tho.
He's town for a really really dumb reason.- mastina
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I read games I'm not in mate.In post 288, Bitmap wrote:*cough*- mastina
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I didn't say my memory of your games was recent.In post 296, Bitmap wrote:I've literally played only 2 scum games since my site hiatus.
It's almost assuredly pre-hiatus.
I said weakest reason for damn good reasoning.- mastina
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That is an interesting take but I have a different one which is equally or even more scum-indicative. Interested?
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I mean I don't know why you're implying that was a bad game considering I did precisely what I needed to do to help the town win: survive long enough to get off a cop investigation, conftown the right player, eat a nightkill, and set them up to carry.
Not gonna lie yeah it wasn't my best performance in 2019 but it wasn't remotely bad either.- mastina
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Hey in my defense.In post 312, hitogoroshi wrote:mastina 239 seems like a pretty genuine reads list, don't think scum makes a point out of doing a big reads list this early when half the entries are gonna be "I got nothin' chief'.
Three of those reads were reads I could force (and one has since become an actual read), so I could've had three extra reads which would've pushed the "I got nuthin'" to only a quarter of the playerlist rather than half!
Also game was open for less than 24 hours, that has to count for something in so many nulls.- mastina
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Mate don't you fucking DARE accredit to Menalque what Menalque stole from ME.In post 326, Alisae wrote:ok you can have a pass d1
gamma posting elsewhere on site is unusual and sketchy
Mena wasn't the one who noticed Gamma's (lack of posting); you literally fucking quoted the post where *I* was the one who pointed it out.- mastina
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Because Bitmap is Klick's scumbuddy.In post 336, Alisae wrote:
Same question goes out to youIn post 264, Bitmap wrote:I think Klick is leaning town.- mastina
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You know what's also a classic?In post 362, hitogoroshi wrote:(tbh Alisae and Bitmap both just get town vibes on effort tell right now, it's classic for a reason)
A little saying I coined called "effort != alignment".- mastina
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Seven on Bitmap, one on each of Klick/Gamma, one on the unlisted Kerset--ideally, I'd remove a token from one of the one-tokens and place it on a second of them, e.g. removing one of the tokens from Klick/Gamma and placing it onto Kerset (if I had to go on suspicions, it'd be Bitmap > Kerset > Klick ~= Gamma), but I've no qualms with voting a scumread even if it is one of my weakest two scumreads because weakest scumread is still scumread and wagon > no wagon, soooo.In post 385, hitogoroshi wrote:mastina you have ten scum tokens to drop into three buckets, bitmap klick gamma. how many do you put in each bucket
I don't see any reason not to vote Klick in spite of Klick not being my strongest scumread.- mastina
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Boy oh boy you ARE new to Team Mafia aren't you.In post 388, Bitmap wrote:While it's my first time playing team mafia, I don't think you can just assume a team's strong points are going to be one or two people on the team but rather how they all interact and work together.
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Funny how the people I have scumreads on, seem to be overly focused on me.In post 408, jjh927 wrote:and why are 90% if your posts focused on Mastina
Almost as if there's a reason for it.- mastina
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I mean I considered commenting on precisely that but I guess since you did it for me...In post 417, jjh927 wrote:Because it's basically just what mastina said- mastina
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I'm pretty sure every time I've used a pronoun for ofrhz I've used 'he', so this is something I need to say as well.In post 451, Chemist1422 wrote:oops sorry- mastina
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Explicitly so, yes.In post 464, ofrhz wrote:Can I interest anyone in a Kerset wagon?- mastina
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Having a random overly strong focus on someone who is scumreading you, is something that is a not-very-uncommon scumtell.In post 469, Alisae wrote:Or is there supposedly another reason, if not, please enlighten me
It's by far not a reliable 100% scum indicator. Player personality plays a huge factor in it, both the person doing the focus and the person being focused on and their histories with each other. (For instance, there's a big difference between a scummer like, sayyyyyy, Ginngie focusing on me, and randomscummerwithalmostzeromastinaexperience, focusing on me.)
It's not even newb-specific; even I to this very day, have that tendency as scum which I usually lack as town.
Players can have an overly strong focus on someone scumreading them as town, especially given the above mentioned factors of personality and history...
...But it is still a scumtell because it is a tell that comes from scum more often than it comes from town, by a rather significant amount.
There's no such thing as a scumtell that is 100% always scum-indicative; most scumtells that are actually scumtells are more in the range of 60-80% scum-indicative.
And that is precisely the percentage I would attribute to this tell's accuracy. Not 100%, but not a low 51% basically-not-a-tell.
It IS a tell, indicative of scum about 60-80% of the time, and a tell that has no experience limit. Newbs can do it, players who have played for ten years can do it.
So is it a lockscum guaranteed indicator that they are scum, no.
IS it an indicator of them being scum? Yes.- mastina
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You're saying...*I*...am discreditingIn post 482, Kerset wrote: It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.Bitmap?
Mate you got those names backwards because one of the reasons why Bitmap is my strongest scumread is that Bitmap has gone out of his way to discredit me.- mastina
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Well shit.In post 508, Jingle wrote:This was a yes, in case you're rusty on understanding Jingle.
I'm too tired + short on time to do that right now and work tomorrow, but I'll get to it as soon as I can.
The short version: Bitmap's strong focus on me when I am scumreading me + going out of the way to try and discredit me and downplay me as a player, is far more scum indicative and that's what I got.- mastina
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May as well give a readslist:
Menalque
Jingle
Chemist1422
Shadoweh
ofrhz
hitogoroshi
Alisae
Gamma Emerald
Klick
Kerset
Bitmap
This brought to you by the "I am getting townreads way too easily" tiredposting mastina who is liking ofrhz, hito, and Ali in addition to the previously-mentioned townreads on Shadoweh, Chemist, Jingle, and Menalque.
(jjh as noted is still deliberately excluded.)- mastina
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So do you want me to quote the first instance of Bitmap discrediting me, or every instance of Bitmap discrediting me?In post 534, Kerset wrote:
So tell me where did this started?In post 526, mastina wrote:
You're saying...*I*...am discreditingIn post 482, Kerset wrote: It is a first step to discredit bitmap. Just look at mastina.Bitmap?
Mate you got those names backwards because one of the reasons why Bitmap is my strongest scumread is that Bitmap has gone out of his way to discredit me.
The former is easy enough to do from a phone, but is pretty useless for anyone; the latter as it'd be quoting half of Bitmaps iso would be impossible to do on my phone but would be considerably more compelling.- mastina
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Also.In post 564, Bitmap wrote:No one in this game takes my reads seriously so I stopped tryharding.
VOTE: Bitmap
I am buying into jjhs narrative that Klick isn't scum with Bitmap.
Bitmap is pretty blatantly scum here and I can reasonably see Klick as town even separate from associatives suggesting that he's innocent.
I'd also vote Kerset, but I very very strongly prefer this vote.- mastina
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BTW this would probably be the first post that I would say is discrediting me, but I feel like that there are posts before this which I should still mention as part of the overly strong focus on me.In post 181, Bitmap wrote:
See that's what I thought too. I just think mastina is playing really bad based on what I saw in Undertale Mafia personally but she's being pro-scum right now.Alisae wrote:also ig mastina is just town for voting bitmap and saying RC is coaching him?
So, this is the start of the discrediting, but not the start of the overly strong focus on me, which is even earlier in Bitmaps iso.- mastina
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Yeah there's no way RC takes that stance as town particularly given that I am the polar opposite of scum.In post 574, Bitmap wrote:RC wanted me to pass something to this thread. He said he's pretty sure that Mastina is scum who's getting away with murder since there are people who are willing to buy into her "aaa spooky RC" perspective but hasn't been really interested in pursuing it cause he feels like people knowing the read coming from RC is going to discredit it and bitmap doesn't really feel interested in pushing it by himself because this game is demoralizing and shit.- mastina
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I have a need to remedy that.In post 582, Jingle wrote:My strongest townreads are bitmap and klick, btw.
This is projection--Bitmap is in these posts trying way too hard to be town, giving a tone sounding like scum trying to look town. Bitmap made many many posts that were meant to be busywork that looks good on a first glance that fall apart as not being actually sincere when looked at with greater scrutiny.In post 143, Bitmap wrote:hito is trying way too hard to be town and his tone sounds like scum trying to look town.
I asked him about Jingle but he told me he's too busy playing Fire Emblem.Spoiler: Examples: tryhard busywork
For a start, the only game where RC's team had scum other than the game RC was in was Firebringer's game--where RC did give Firebringer feedback. (I realize it's a bit long and 'rc' gives some false positives and there's other names e.g. Cowbells, Radiant, etc. to search for but the comments are there if you want them.)In post 167, Bitmap wrote:Why do you think he'd be coaching me when RC didn't coach his scum teammates in last TM?
Coaching was a bit tongue-in-cheek terminology on my point; RC had an investment in Firebringer's game and I was mostly saying that RC had an investment in this game, and that the slot was scum (the two were not directly correlated, i.e., I was not saying "RC is invested in this game because it is a scum slot", so much as I was saying, "The way RC is handling this looks like the way RC would help a scum teammate").
But this was the start of Bitmap's defensiveness.
Defensiveness against my attack when I was the only one pushing Bitmap harder.In post 170, Bitmap wrote:mastina, trying to lynch my hydra out of the game on D1 is very pro-scum.
This was the start of Bitmap's discrediting of me.In post 181, Bitmap wrote:
See that's what I thought too. I just think mastina is playing really bad based on what I saw in Undertale Mafia personally but she's being pro-scum right now.Alisae wrote:also ig mastina is just town for voting bitmap and saying RC is coaching him?
Every paragraph of 197 is discrediting of me. To wit,
This is a discredit of me, telling me that my content was a joke.In post 197, Bitmap wrote:mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.
This is a discredit of me, saying that I was not doing anything pro-town. For context, Bitmap is referencing a postIn post 197, Bitmap wrote:Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.I was asked to make. Jingleaskedme to deliver the list that I made pregame about the players in the game. I deliveredon his requestwhat he asked me to give, a basic breakdown of how likely I viewed each player's chances at eating a nightkill and why.
This is a discredit of me, saying my content was doing nothing but ego-stroking.In post 197, Bitmap wrote:Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.
This is a discredit of me, saying that the list which I was specifically asked by Jingle to provide, was my sole contribution to the game, when I was doing plenty more aside from that.In post 197, Bitmap wrote:Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.
This is a discredit of me, saying that "mastina is so detrimental to the game that she should be dead before the endgame".In post 205, Bitmap wrote:
only if mastina doesn't reach endgameIn post 204, Alisae wrote:
don't get into this fight with mastinaIn post 197, Bitmap wrote:mastina, can you stop making funny jokes? My team is dying of laughter in the discord channels.
Also wow, you've completely neglected the game to stroke the e-peen of other players while the rest of us are actually trying to solve this game. You and your team are honestly a true inspiration of what it's like to not be pro-town in this game.
Also, please stop stroking hito's ego. He has scum equity that a lot of players/teams have recognized and yet you completely ignore.
Also, please don't infer that I need coaching as scum. Scum is not hard. Town is much harder to play as and I'm leveraging my team to actually work and solve this game unlike you who wants to make a popularity list.
- its unproductive
- you're wasting your energy
- thread health goes down
- its extremely petty
This is a further of the discrediting of me--it would be one thing if Bitmap were taking this stance with the belief that I was scum; that'd make sense. You don't want scum to reach endgame when you are town, that goes without saying. But Bitmap didn't hold that stance; this was a statement meant to dismiss my contributions to the game as worse-than-worthless.In post 209, Bitmap wrote:I don't need to confer with my team to know that we'll be extremely unhappy if mastina reaches endgame.
This is a discredit of me, saying my contributions to the game are worthless.In post 237, Bitmap wrote:ur too shit at the game that even Shadoweh's team thinks you're a liability to town
I was not saying Bitmap's respect for RC contributed to my scumread of the slot; I was saying my respect for RC contributed to the scumread of the slot. So this was a misrep of my point.In post 259, Bitmap wrote:
This is where everyone in the thread laughs because they know I'm a big RC fanboi if he's town or on my team. In my last scum game, I did everything to discredit RC and un-legitimize his reads. Try again.In post 256, mastina wrote:respect for RC's competency
This was attacking the weakest point in my argument rather than addressing the stronger points.In post 259, Bitmap wrote:
Nice lie. This is the first mafia game I've ever played with you.In post 256, mastina wrote:and vague but most definitely unreliable memory of meta (this not being how I remember Bitmap being as town/feeling like what I remember as being closer to Bitmaps scumgame but as I said, this is weakest for damn good reason).
https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... r_id=28641
2078 was anyone can post so I went in there memeing.
I made it explicitly clear:
-The meta was my weakest point
-It was off of vague memory
-It was from a long time ago
-It was unreliable
I said it myself, it was the point most likely to be wrong of those listed. But I listed more than that. The points that Bitmap chose not to try to address because they're much harder to discredit:
Strongest reason to weakest reason.In post 256, mastina wrote:BTW to give a brief rundown of the scumread on Bitmap, from strongest reason to weakest:
Blatant projection (guilty of the very thing Bitmap was accusing hito of to a degree far, far more blatant and worse than any of hito's), gut from the chosen approach to the game, where Bitmap is focusing, respect for RC's competency, and vague but most definitely unreliable memory of meta (this not being how I remember Bitmap being as town/feeling like what I remember as being closer to Bitmaps scumgame but as I said, this is weakest for damn good reason).
Bitmap misrepped the second-weakest point and chose to address the weakest point.
Ignoring the blatant projection, the approach to the game, and where he was focusing.
This was a discredit of me.In post 265, Bitmap wrote:I find it extremely funny that mastina said that Klick is the weakest out of his team but still doing a better job than mastina.
This was a discredit of me, as it was implying I was talking exclusively about RC. I did talk about RC when RC was the subject in question, but I did not go out of my way to talk about RC--quite the opposite, I was very specific in mentioning Bitmap over RC.In post 271, Bitmap wrote:@mastina:
Message from RC:He wants you to shut up about him or else he's going to proxy play this game.
This was a discredit of me, saying I needed to be quiet.In post 273, Bitmap wrote:In post 271, Bitmap wrote:@mastina:
Message from RC:He wants you to shut up about him or else he's going to proxy play this game.@everyone:If you don't want RC to proxy play this game, RC said please make mastina stfu.
I was not walling.
At the time I was in the bottom-half of players post-wise.
I was not spamming; I was not excessively fluffposting.
There was nothing in my content that warranted shutting up about because I was contributing to the game and Bitmap was implying I wasn't and insisting I wasn't to the point where he actively tried to bully people into getting me to talk less.
This is a discredit of me, saying my content is not worth reading.In post 287, Bitmap wrote:Can I get it so I can use it on mastina?
In post 296, Bitmap wrote:I've literally played only 2 scum games since my site hiatus.In post 297, Bitmap wrote:I'm going to have to ask you to clarify which one it is because otherwise you're probably full of shit right now.This is discrediting of me because it is pretending that I did not already acknowledge that the meta point was weak, pretending it was in any way stronger than it actually was. I SAID from the getgo that it was my weakest point and probably unreliable, specifically
becauseit was old meta from vague memory. (I was phoneposting, no fucking shit I wasn't going to be searching through Bitmap's previous games to confirm.)
This was a discredit of me, intended to be saying "mastina this game is sucking as much as she did in another game". (Mind you, I heavily debate that given I am in no way shape or form ashamed of my play in that game. It was admittedly not a stellar performance from me and I had much better games in 2019 but it was far from a bad performance and I did exactly what I needed to for my team to win. But at a surface glance, the implication of Bitmap's point was apparent enough, trying to compare my play this game to a 'bad' game of mine.)In post 305, Bitmap wrote:
Her play seems eerily similar to another game.In post 304, Jingle wrote:Oh no, I definitely get that you think mastina is bad. I just also see what looks like you thinking mastina is bad town. Not scum, bad town.
This is overly defensive of Bitmap and discrediting of my points against Bitmap as being "Bitmap is being textbook scum"--when to the contrary, Bitmap's play this game has been anything but textbook scumplay and that's part of the reason why I am so sure it IS scumplay. None of my points have been about textbook scumplay.In post 322, Bitmap wrote:I don't get your cop comment. But I think her push on me was pretty much the the same when I was on the Nymph account and sort of just tunneled it for being "textbook surface level" scummy but not actually scum. I understand that from most people that my town play has been very "textbook surface level" scummy. If you saw how she interacted with my slot in Undertale, that's what I'm referencing.
However, the more important part of the post is this:
Aside from this being further discrediting of me by saying my play has been negative,In post 322, Bitmap wrote:
Because according to my team, being extremely scummy and pro-scum is a common thing with mastina. This is my first actual game with mastina so I asked my team for help sorting her.In post 320, Shadoweh wrote: Also from me, since Jingle made watashi realize that your intentions are very unclear about this, do you think mastina is town or scum here? The Subarashī Watashi me had been ignoring it because I think mastina is jakkan obsessed with catching scum you more then actually seeing scum you, but I'd thought you thought mastina was a scumbutt from comments earlier about not wanting her to get to endgame?
I mean, your team even agreed to have her quarantined and I assume it's because of her generally negative play.Why did Bitmap go out of his way to ask his team about me?
Why was I such an important sort, that Bitmap went out of his way to get the opinions of his teammates? nsg's opinion of me is probably the highest of his three teammates with GIF's being neutral-negative and RC's being negative, so that they have a negative viewpoint of me is something that I do believe...but why was it important to get feedback on me?
It's showing an overly strong focus on my push on the slot.
This is a discredit of my content.In post 393, Bitmap wrote:Just because you're playing the best of a sub-optimal strategy, doesn't mean it's the best strategy.
This is a discredit of my posts, saying that they are not worth reading.In post 473, Bitmap wrote:I don’t understand why I’m seeing the forum saying to shut the fuck up furry lately.
More than that.
You want the ultimate proof Bitmap was discrediting me?
Look no further than:Bitmap's written confession he was doing exactly that
What was this in reference to?In post 343, Bitmap wrote:How does that differ with how I've been treating mastina yet you have me as a town read?
Alisae said that Klick's posts towards me were, "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible".In post 342, Alisae wrote:In fact, I feel like thats the sort of pressure thats applied by scum with the mindset of "how can I make this person look like an idiot as much as possible."
Bitmap said that he didprecisely this thingin regards to me.
Bitmap, himself, admitted that he was discrediting me.
This is also odd; Bitmap stated he wanted to play on the offense...but he had a very strong focus on defense as noted above.In post 249, Bitmap wrote:
All of your posts are you playing defense and focusing on self-image rather than scum hunting. I kind of want you to play offense right now.In post 247, Shadoweh wrote:Okay then, what do you not like about my posts? Other people have nebulously said they don't like that I stopped posting which is a tondemonai accusation I can't do anything with and strikes me as lazy, but if you have problems with the yasashi words I have gifted you all I can talk to you about that.
I'm a big weeb so I don't care about the yasashi words.- mastina
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Okay since you're pretty much aware of it I'll just out the reason for it now anyway.In post 594, Jingle wrote:At least one of the people saying I'm not towny enough to be scum is probably scum.
Remember that stupid reason for townreading you I had?
It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.
More or less my thought there was that you were deliberately acting scummy and that there were two explanations for it.
Either you were making a 5head 4d chessplay of being scum that was blatantly obviously opportunistic scum, in order to make peoplethinkthat you're town making a strategic maneuver of scumminess...
...Or that you were just making an actual town strategic maneuver of scumminess.
Which I know.
Is a stupid-ass reason for townreading you.
I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. It just kinda...happened.- mastina
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I hadn't.In post 598, ofrhz wrote: I had forgotten about the klick townread
I originally thought, scum defending scumbuddy.
jjh convinced me of the far more likely alternative; scum white knighting a likely mislynch for the free towncred associated with that stance.- mastina
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I did not shit on people.In post 619, Bitmap wrote:I was thinking it's due to the whole starting post where mastina just started shitting on random people when she made that first post.
I was asked by Jingle to give my pregame assessments.
I told him I didn't make them, exactly, because I didn't have the time--however, I did do something vaguely similar in the PT, which I shared: more or less, a tier of "these players are likely to draw nightkills, these players could possibly draw nightkills, these players are not likely to draw nightkills", and these assessments were factoring in both the players in this game overall, and the team the players belong to.
And be honest.
Is there any assessment in that post you'd disagree with?And, to reiterate: I was asked by Jingle to post this, from my PT. It originated from there. (I do admit that the post in the PT wasn't exactly identical. Fear of direct copy-paste violating rules played a part in that, plus my original post contained some coding errors that I fixed in this version, among the modifications made. But the post in the PT conveys similar thoughts. The version in-thread is actually more in-depth than the version from the PT.)Spoiler: The post in question- mastina
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Mostly correct but leaves out that Bitmap's team's contributions to this game are incredibly suspect in their nature and an overall focus on looking town without doing anything actually town.In post 623, Jingle wrote:tl;dr on the case in rough order of strength:
Projection
Discrediting
Lack of Follow Through
Defensiveness
Trajectory
Am I wrong in my summation?
Plus, jjh's assessment of Bitmap's contributions felt on-point; white knighting likely mislynches (namely, Klick) to set up for future towncred.- mastina
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I never shaded Bitmap.In post 627, Kerset wrote:Most of 612 could be described as: mastina shaded bitmap, bitmap disagreed with that, mastina feels that her reads are discredited
Bitmap did far far FAR more than disagree with my assessment.
So this is a pretty blatant misrep.
Why were my theories worthy of debunking? Worthy of focusing on and not forming a read off of me from.In post 627, Kerset wrote:Mastina you said by yourself that bitmap was in defense there. What did you expect to see from him? Did you really hope that he won't debunk your theories?
Nobody was following me onto Bitmap.
Yet Bitmap went out of his way to 'debunk' my theories.- mastina
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I know I should know this.In post 632, Jingle wrote:
Hey mastina, what's my opinion on D1 wagons on me?In post 616, mastina wrote:It was more or less "Jingle is being so blatantly obviously opportunistic there's no way that he's actually scum", more or less a too scummy for a competent player to actually be scum argument.
I really really really REALLY should.
I know you expect me to know the answer to this because by all rights I should know the answer to it and have literally no reason to not know the answer because I KNOW that I know it, dammit, so you're not unreasonable in expecting me to know it, either. You have every reason to believe that I would know this because I do, dammit.
But uh.
I can't remember.- mastina
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Yep, sure have been focused on your slot.In post 646, Bitmap wrote:All mastina has done this game is talk pretty much exclusively on my slot.
It's not like I've given reads on most of the players in the game and explained my mindset surrounding them.
Oh wait.
It is.
Off the top of my head: I've given rather extensive thoughts on Jingle, have explained my (lack of) stance on jjh fairly thoroughly, given where my head's been at in regards to Klick, and given a few thoughts on Kerset (although I admit I could do more).
I do admit; I probably could give more explanation to some of my reads--my Chemist read is more or less agreeing with the assessment that this is probably his towngame; I could talk about my Menalque townread some more; I could probably unpack my thoughts on ofhrz, Shadoweh, hito, and Ali more but I admit in the case of them that's more of reads that I don't really want to focus on.
Even with a lack of giving extensive thoughts on those players, though, I haven't shied away from giving reads on them and have done so rather explicitly--even giving reads on players I said I wasn't giving reads on.- mastina
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Btw this is a scum narrative of "woe is me, my slot is getting shit for half of the people wanting more RC and half the people thinking there's too much RC", which isn't reflective of the actual happenings of the game.In post 652, Bitmap wrote:
RC pretty much said this as well. If you guys wanted to have RC help out more, he'd put in more effort and thought. If you guys want him to fuck off, he'll fuck off. However, the more this game progresses, the more that it seems like I'm getting shit on whether or not RC helps me out and sends messages here or plays his own game which is not fair to him.In post 628, Shadoweh wrote:If I was Bitmap I'd be demoralized reading this too, with half the players asking for RC's opinions/mentioning RC and the other half asking Bitmap why they think RC's name being involved is a big deal, lol. (ノΦωΦ)ノ
I think that Bitmap is scum for factors that have nothing to do with Bitmap's team, but purely from Bitmap's posting in this game being that of a scum player. While there are reasons that Bitmap's team's contributions to this game are scum ones, these augment the existing suspicion--augment, NOT are the fundamental basis of them.
To compare this to a different environment, this is a lot like as if Bitmap were a replacement in a game complaining about people scumreading the former holder of the slot--when the majority of the reasons people are scumreading the slot are from Bitmap's contributions. Where the former holder of the slot might've contributed a little to the scumread, but the scumread is mostly from the actual actions of Bitmap.
That's what I more or less mean here.- mastina
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I believe Pine won't get mad at me for sharing that this game is our team's bottom priority pretty much. It doesn't need my teammates' help so I'm flying solo, too. I'll get their helpIn post 657, Chemist1422 wrote:So yes it’s possible to treat the game as soloeventually, later in the game, when it's needed, but it isn't needed right now by and large. - mastina
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- mastina
- mastina
- mastina
- mastina
- mastina