Team Mafia 2020: Normal Game (Endgame)

[MathBlade]

I will not stand for this thread being unlocked slightly later than the other ones!

Anyway, VOTE: skitter

it's party time

VOTE: Plum

Serious vote. The party time post rubbed me the wrong way.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: teacher policy.

Why is this a policy vote?

[MathBlade]

but there's a little party hat

Why are you defending Plum? If it was a random statement they could say so. Now you’ve given them an out.

[MathBlade]

Oh god it has begun!

V/la as noted until next weekend (read: not in 2 days, obv)

Maybe don't lynch me in that time. Maybe do. Up to you XD

Hi town.

[MathBlade]

an out for what?

Random fluff. Random post + disappear = bad.

Random fluff + response = good

Random fluff + Garcia = ???

[MathBlade]

I will not stand for this thread being unlocked slightly later than the other ones!

Anyway, VOTE: skitter

it's party time

VOTE: Plum

Serious vote. The party time post rubbed me the wrong way.

we can dance my dude

but there's a little party hat

Why are you defending Plum? If it was a random statement they could say so. Now you’ve given them an out.

???

fwiw it is a party hat and that indeed is why it's party time

now go ahead and tell me that tris gave me an out

They did. Quite simply put the post is unnecessary. It fishes for what I was expecting then you can mirror. Garcia’ing in the early game is almost always bad.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: teacher policy.

Why is this a policy vote?

I had duck for Xmas.

Omg stop garcia’ing people.

Pedit
Garcia = Answer a question not directed at you.

[MathBlade]

but there's a little party hat

Why are you defending Plum? If it was a random statement they could say so. Now you’ve given them an out.

are you usually this aggressive ?
i feel like you're trying to attack tris here for a fairly innocuous statement

Yes. I like to get things started fast and quick. Whether my first impressions are right or wrong it helps get people talking and moves us out of RVS into content and gives less room for scum to hide in.

[MathBlade]

They did. Quite simply put the post is unnecessary. It fishes for what I was expecting then you can mirror. Garcia’ing in the early game is almost always bad.

"bad" as in scum equity from tris or "bad" because perceived reduced utility in grilling me over the phrase "it's party time"

Bad as in denies reads which is proscum. Unless you have a good reason garcia’ing in the early game is bad as it tends to monopolize conversation through one spot.

Also bad because if denied me reads on you and if my gut was correct or not.

[MathBlade]

math what was tris's post fishing for and what were you expecting?

Tris’s post was fishing for what I expected out of Plum.

Didn’t seem all that bad >> I either explain how it is bad, giving Plum an out if they are scum with Tris
Or if Plum is town Tris scum >> Gets me shit talking about town.

Either way it was just bad.

[MathBlade]

Yes. I like to get things started fast and quick. Whether my first impressions are right or wrong it helps get people talking and moves us out of RVS into content and gives less room for scum to hide in.

i kind of want to vote you but i'm not sure if it's a playstyle thing

early townpings on plum, i think

Then vote me. See who joins you. Why would you be scared to vote?

It’s not like votes are immutable.

Is there some reason you’d be scared to vote me? You can always change it when you find out you’re wrong.

[MathBlade]

They did. Quite simply put the post is unnecessary. It fishes for what I was expecting then you can mirror. Garcia’ing in the early game is almost always bad.

"bad" as in scum equity from tris or "bad" because perceived reduced utility in grilling me over the phrase "it's party time"

Bad as in denies reads which is proscum. Unless you have a good reason garcia’ing in the early game is bad as it tends to monopolize conversation through one spot.

Also bad because if denied me reads on you and if my gut was correct or not.

...

I'll tell you honestly the only reason for me to say "it's party time" there was a reference to the avatar thing me and my team have going on. However you read the choice to open with fluff, I'll tell you 100% NAI the reason that phrase came up is that

I'm saying this to try to help you get back your lost gut read in some capacity

Why does this feel truthful and icky at the same time? I don’t know why. Does anyone else see this or is it just me?

[MathBlade]

how did you get scared out of that, pray tell?

pedit @math

Because you didn’t vote me.

The post doesn’t show confidence. It reads to me “I wanna vote you” but “I don’t wanna follow through”.

I don’t see why a town player would not just vote so early. It seems odd/scared/non-commital

[MathBlade]

math what was tris's post fishing for and what were you expecting?

Tris’s post was fishing for what I expected out of Plum.

Didn’t seem all that bad >> I either explain how it is bad, giving Plum an out if they are scum with Tris
Or if Plum is town Tris scum >> Gets me shit talking about town.

Either way it was just bad.

it's not like you had to respond to me if you were waiting for plum's response.

also, how would you say me making that post negatively affected how plum responded?

Hey Tris!

You're about a year into MS, you've played lots, right?

I actually originally started playing in 2013, but there were only a couple games from then. I got back into mafia with this new account a year ago and have some games over the year.

You know what, I read that when yku came back I believe, but had forgotten.

Are you typically an emotional player?

i wouldn't say so. sometimes i guess.

Why does this feel truthful and icky at the same time? I don’t know why. Does anyone else see this or is it just me?

oh yeah that's why i rescinded the townpings, it felt weird

I don't see what you guys are talking about.

What do you expect me to do? Delete your post? You made a suggestion “but there’s a little party hat”

It’s an implication the post is fine. Which plum can do themselves. I have glasses and sometimes it’s harder to see detail in the avatars. The fact you did it bugs me. If it’s so “obvious” there would be no reason for you to need to.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: mathblade woo hoo!

i still don't get the plum scum pings.

Hot take Plum v Tris is TvS or SvT

Thoughts Ari & Skitter

Oh and RC those pictures are so big I literally can’t see what you’re doing with them on my phone.

If you have a point please shrink your pictures or ideally use words.

[MathBlade]

Tris, Plum, Skitter scumteam. Calling it now.

I think two of the three but not all three. They all give me scum pings but I think it’s too early for all the pings to be right.

[MathBlade]

ok

i was just going to shitpost but it's already that time

VOTE: Mathblade

this is scum.

Cool. So RC continues his record of can’t read me for shit.

RC is town.

Skitter why do you think it could be TvS and not SvT?

[MathBlade]

yeah, town mathblade never ever ever calls me town on page 4 of a game.

Lol you haven’t played with me in more than a year and I have called you town early on before. Please continue being factually incorrect. It was the game we don’t speak of where I fucked up. Then you wouldn’t let it go and it caused me to scumread you. Don’t do this again please RC.

[MathBlade]

math i was using it generically like 'i could see there being one scum and one town in that pair' but i don't know which is which yet, atm i'm leaning towards plum
i could actually see svs too tbh

So can you like back anything up with reasons? Like thoughts?

VOTE: Skitter30

[MathBlade]

Scum!Mathblade tries to sound all LAMIST and reasonable, Town!Mathblade plays like me except their reads are all wrong basically.

Lol except I am site MVP on another site
I literally quit MS and went to another site to get better.

Using year old meta = dumb

[MathBlade]

math i was using it generically like 'i could see there being one scum and one town in that pair' but i don't know which is which yet, atm i'm leaning towards plum
i could actually see svs too tbh

So can you like back anything up with reasons? Like thoughts?

VOTE: Skitter30

i literally just described what i didn't like about plum like five minutes ago
and i say a lot of things/reads/opinions without like always listing all of the reasons for them, if you want more information you can just, like, ask

I can “just ask” but a vote is more efficient and shows my lack of sufficiency with prior responses.
I like this response as it’s much cooler and doesn’t seem nervous.

@RC yet you continue to repeat the same mistakes.

Pedit: I do agree with you there though.

VOTE: Trim

Trim talk about Plum town or scum and why?

[MathBlade]

There = agree with RC about ducky missing

[MathBlade]

Oh and RC Titus says you wouldn’t be that magical as a girl whatever that means *shrug*

[MathBlade]

am i trim?

Rip yes sorry my bad.

[MathBlade]

Trim talk about Plum town or scum and why?

eh, not much of a read yet. the skitter read might come from town.

Then who are you supposing I am scum with? Your vote is on me.

What are you doing to find my nonexistent buddies?

[MathBlade]

Then who are you supposing I am scum with? Your vote is on me.

What are you doing to find my nonexistent buddies?

what kind of question is this to be asking on the sixth page of the game?

Asking what hunting someone is doing is a great question when not in RVS.

This is the same shit I didn’t like about tris and now you’re doing it.

[MathBlade]

They literally just quoted your post instead of thinking and replying.

Wtf.

[MathBlade]

do u want to just antispew and stop wasting everyone's time because your slot is done.

I am sorry. Since when do we wait on flips to get people to talk about slots?

[MathBlade]

Asking for preflip association hunting when >33% of the list hasn’t posted is ridiculous , and that you’re doubling down on it is kinda amazing tbh.

All content is preflip association.

You literally make reads without knowing.

A defended B. B was scum. Remember that. Was defense good or bad?

This game is nothing but analyzing preflips.

[MathBlade]

Asking for preflip association hunting when >33% of the list hasn’t posted is ridiculous , and that you’re doubling down on it is kinda amazing tbh.

All content is preflip association.

You literally make reads without knowing.

A defended B. B was scum. Remember that. Was defense good or bad?

This game is nothing but analyzing preflips.

no, not all reads are associative. and the more important part of that post is the part where a large chunk of the game hasn't posted.

It’s not a read if it’s not associative. Even your party post is associative because it was the absence of a relationship/association.

If you have checked a player that’s not a read anymore.

[MathBlade]

Plum’s* sorry!

[MathBlade]

associative is about reading someone based on their interactions with someone you know or suspect the alignment of.

Lol that’s just a small part of it.
Like a super tiny part.

[MathBlade]

i think that mathblade is scum with implosion

i am a gunsmith and can confirm that implosion has not one but two guns

Can you like stop faking shit already?

We all know you’re a super arrogant asshole and I am trying desperately not to repeat my mistake when you fake claimed PGO and I had proof it was impossible but ugh you are making it really hard not to rage at you right now.

[MathBlade]

the important part is why am i supposed to know who your scumbuddies are when most people haven't posted?

That isn’t what I asked.

I asked what you’re doing to find any “scumbuddies” (Hint none) that I have.

You seem to be asking on the assumption that they are inactive and not active (which requires judgment) what are you doing to actively sort people/make that determination?

[MathBlade]

Wait that's a really shitty hint, that sort of gives away the answer doesn't it?
Like if we know that you don't have any scumpartners, why would we even bother to look for scumpartners?

Because if you confront an incorrect belief and have to challenge it and realize that you can’t make it work then you see the belief is incorrect.

If you’re town we win because you open up your mindset to others and then what nuggets of truth that are there can be found. The more reads and thoughts one has the easier it is later on.

[MathBlade]

well, i've been focusing on you so far, but I have developed some reads on others. It's not like i can sort everyone in the first couple hours of the game.

Again. That didn’t answer the question. Let’s try a new approach. What reads have you developed?

I don’t think anyone has solved the game yet and solving it this early would be ludicrous.

They can fuckin take my ice cream if anyone has solved it this early.

[MathBlade]

well, i've been focusing on you so far, but I have developed some reads on others. It's not like i can sort everyone in the first couple hours of the game.

Again. That didn’t answer the question. Let’s try a new approach. What reads have you developed?

I don’t think anyone has solved the game yet and solving it this early would be ludicrous.

They can fuckin take my ice cream if anyone has solved it this early.

skitter and aristophanes are town reads. slightly on plum.

I don't see what your problem with me is.

My problem is I don’t see deep thought with you.

Like take for example you assume I am scum with Plum. Reread the opening.

Does the assumption hold? If yes why, if not why not?

If not what of your beliefs are right and what are wrong?

You’re just stating things and not having umph behind it.

[MathBlade]

Okay I took a step back

MathBlade suspected me and voted me

RC came in with a strongly worded vote on MathBlade

I vote MathBlade

MathBlade says nothing about this and proceeds to suspect and vote multiple other players

???

This is correct. I do not fear a scumread voting me. It has no impact on me assessing if my reads are correct or not. You can lead a mislynch wagon on me if you like and find it appropriate. Town still gets info from who is on my bad wagon.

Going “omg I am being voted” is antitown.

RC is arrogant and will vote me for breathing so and Titus backs that up mentioning that RC probably doesn’t have a read on me and just thinks that he’d have a better shot at winning if I am not here sooo fucks given zero.

Hell even if a wagon forms on me those votes have reasons. Those reasons have motives that can be read.

[MathBlade]

also he's called everyone voting him scum besides me b/c he knows that voting me really doesn't go anywhere. the townread on me is straight TMI.

That’s rich. You realize I called Plum/Tris/Skitter scum before their votes.

Dude I get it you hate my guts/think I suck/whatever

It’s really antitown what you’re doing here.

[MathBlade]

why am I town though?

Mix of Titus/ when you’re scum you don’t fake claim so early/ you’re less of an asshole (but still one)

[MathBlade]

ok so who are we voting now

I am voting Tris.

You’re still voting me despite calling me town (sarcastically?) earlier.

I think your vote is better on Tris so we get in depth reads from Tris.

[MathBlade]

[ari, Plum] are my scumreads aorn.

Titus agrees with Ari scumread. I don’t see it but I can definitely do Plum.

VOTE: Plum

If Ari is scum buttering me up give Titus a bit of time to warm me up to it.

[MathBlade]

no offense because i'm sure you feel you've been very towny outright townreading you as hard as ari claims to be is insanely unlikely.

None taken especially with how Titus also pings Ari as scum.

I think I’ve been Townie because I am town lolz.

[MathBlade]

your posting kinda fucking sucks duck.

+1

To answer your question the opening was bad but wasn’t sure if it’s a both bad or one bad or TWTBAW situation. So asking input.

[MathBlade]

My gut said only one though so just ran with it to start a convo

[MathBlade]

mm early townpings from mathblade are shrinkign

Lol the fact you have town pings at all is a bad look for you considering the powers game where you if I recall correctly said you’d be slower at giving them out. Like certain people townreading me fast is a bad thing. You’re one of them.

[MathBlade]

i don't know what the powers game is i'm sorry

Heroes game. Where I deepwolfed with Nancy and Creature after Titus did stuffs.

[MathBlade]

i don't know what the powers game is i'm sorry

Heroes game. Where I deepwolfed with Nancy and Creature after Titus did stuffs.

i largely forgot that game was a thing. what was the takeaway you expected me to have from it?
ngl i skipped like well over 50% of the thread so not much from before the day where you were the boss leader dude thing made much of an impression on me

*blinks* *blinks*
I literally remind you the take away and then you ask what the takeaway is?

Skipping threads and giving townreads to vocal people and voting lurkers = bad unless you townread all active people. You literally gave me cred for leading (prior post) and then repeat the same thing you said you’d not do. I mean only so many foreheads I got

[MathBlade]

i think it's like... very much not okay

and not cool at all tbh

duck should be ashamed

I think plum+worst is a scum team.

That whole soft discredit is ewww

“Math’s reasons are bad but you’re not Townie...”

Like ewwwww

[MathBlade]

btw

my entire non-me team scumreads mathblade

and i'm just kinda like... i don't remember how to read them

I’d be surprised if northsidegal and GiF didn’t scumread me. They’re also on the worry if they townread me list.

Pedit you will Raybells it’s okay.

[MathBlade]

You literally gave me cred for leading

this is not why i gave you early cred
i'm like, 4x as experienced or something as i was in heroes wanted

Then show me the experience. Give me a hot take of yours that’s purely your own.

[MathBlade]

i'm gonna be really salty if ari is town who decided to randomly throw out a hard townread that first impulse was a tmi townread on scum

How would town have a tmi townread on scum? That doesn’t make sense? Am I missing something?

<<Insert The Point

<<Insert Airplane

<<Insert my head

[MathBlade]

btw

my entire non-me team scumreads mathblade

and i'm just kinda like... i don't remember how to read them

I’d be surprised if northsidegal and GiF didn’t scumread me. They’re also on the worry if they townread me list.

Pedit you will Raybells it’s okay.

you can trash talk me but don't trash talk NSG

I am not? That was a compliment that they don’t instantly townread me like most newbies do?

[MathBlade]

i'm gonna be really salty if ari is town who decided to randomly throw out a hard townread that first impulse was a tmi townread on scum

How would town have a tmi townread on scum? That doesn’t make sense? Am I missing something?

<<Insert The Point

<<Insert Airplane

<<Insert my head

the idea is that they by throwing a really bad townread on you might have derailed my attempt to lynch scum you if they're town and you're scum
right now i kinda think you might both be scum and that was a defense of a scumbuddy? depends on my read on you though.

Well you have a theory. I know it’s incorrect but NSG and Gif have more experience with scum me than you iirc. What does scum me do when pressured? Town me? Third party me?

I am okay with an Ari lynch since Titus scumreads them. I just don’t see it and therefore can’t in good conscience vote Ari.

[MathBlade]

it (usually) takes me a while to move votes
(although i guess i've been kinda breaking out of that meta recently)

idk why i didn't actually switch the vote there

i kinda want to vote plum tho

VOTE: plum

yuck

Tris, Plum, Skitter scumteam. Calling it now.

hi ari

ok

i was just going to shitpost but it's already that time

VOTE: Mathblade

this is scum.

VOTE: MathBlade

i have a better vote

VOTE: Plum

no i never called you town but I was mostly just looking to see how people reacted to an early push

VOTE: plum

@RC Why does this make me think Ari+Ico+Maaaaaybe Tris?

[MathBlade]

Maybe Ari Ico Worst?

The plum vote by Ico feels icky and wrong

VOTE: Unvote

[MathBlade]

Actually fuck it

I am completely surprised but I am sheeping Titus here

VOTE: Ari

[MathBlade]

not that it isn't

too early to be trying to solve

If you do you and I do me and we both lynch scum does it matter how we got there?

[MathBlade]

oh god i'm gonna be scumread for my opening again ain't I

Yep. You are being scumread for it.

What’s your thoughts on Ari?

It looks like you’re trying to just sorta plop on Plum and only talking about that is sketch af

[MathBlade]

that's not my point

i'm not being mission critical

i'm simply saying that when I say "that could be it" i don't mean it like

the same way i'd say "that could be it" in 5 way

it's just this is something that could be true there's nothing that says its not

Gotcha

[MathBlade]

i already get the feeling this is not actually going to be a toxic game and that feels good

+1 This

[MathBlade]

I don’t have time to read 5 pages before work. Does anyone have a quick question I can answer now before then?

[MathBlade]

mm early townpings from mathblade are shrinkign

Lol the fact you have town pings at all is a bad look for you considering the powers game where you if I recall correctly said you’d be slower at giving them out. Like certain people townreading me fast is a bad thing. You’re one of them.

Do you like base your perception of tw's game off of this one or something ^

I base my perception of people based on prior games of them yes. It’s meta reading.

[MathBlade]

What has Ari done besides buddy me and RC?

[MathBlade]

What has Ari done besides buddy me and RC?

Ok where do you think he did that?
I'm not sure this is the right question to be asking / right approach to be taking wrt him either

The quick townread on me.
Meme posting with RC.

[MathBlade]

What has Ari done besides buddy me and RC?

Ok where do you think he did that?
I'm not sure this is the right question to be asking / right approach to be taking wrt him either

The quick townread on me.
Meme posting with RC.

I thought him going after tris was p good, actually, for him
The meming i dont think is ai at all
The townread on you was kinda weird, yeah

Here’s a question to think about while I am at work Skitter:

His scumreads iirc are Plum Tris and you. Do you think that’s really off base and advantageous or genuine?

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:


VOTE: skitter

What do you make of yourself sheeping Ari who has a lot of votes?

If Ari is town what do you think this means?
And if Ari is scum what do you think this means?

[MathBlade]

And I am not sheeping Ari. Been warming up to the theory Ari is trying to pocket me and RC.

[MathBlade]

VLA til Sunday awesome people

[MathBlade]

I am back in town from the bay and catching up now. Anything urgent I need to be aware of?

[MathBlade]

i'm not townreading Mathblade btw, just so that's clear.

i just think that even if they're scum we can either make them bus or catch their buddies off of their interactions so there's not much to lose by treating them as town for now.

How’s this treating you?

I am very much interested to see how your reads go with the correct assumption I am town.

[MathBlade]

this is a surprisingly fun game. not sure why. it's kind of fun playing the slow game and not being immediately scumread for it? i'm kinda surprised no one's calling me scum?

on a scale of duckling to dragon, how sure are you about your mathblade meta read?

Interesting RC’s answer isn’t found.

He usually brags about how good he is. Why didn’t he here?

Typical RC brags. This is odd and I wanna bring it up with Titus later. (I have trouble reading RC so Titus helps me)

[MathBlade]

Trim talk about Plum town or scum and why?

eh, not much of a read yet. the skitter read might come from town.

Then who are you supposing I am scum with? Your vote is on me.

What are you doing to find my nonexistent buddies?

Gross. Why does Tris need to solve the rest of the game to pursue a scum read? Instead of, y'know, sorting that scumread.

That’s not what I am asking. Whenever you have a scumread they by definition have buddies. No matter how hard you scumread someone if they have no viable partners then something is wrong with how you’re reading the game.

I have no partners and with team mafia every player is being coached so reads by association becomes one of the better ways to get reads.

[MathBlade]

like i'm amazed that no one is scumreading me for just saying la dee da i don't know what mathblade's alignment is and i'm not trying to figure it out but that's kinda where i'm at, yeah.

It’s more like you read like you’ve had a bit too much fun drinking or eating something. You’re not yourself so I don’t know what to make of it. It makes you different but different isn’t always scum.

[MathBlade]

Math what are your full reads aorn. Independent of Titus because I feel there is a metagamey aspect there. I've already caught myself trying to give hesitant townreads for it.

I do reads by association and am mobile posting. Give me a sec to type out my thoughts in the next post.

[MathBlade]

Spoiler: Alive
the worst — shitty intro scum pool
Mathblade — the towniest town to ever town just bad at towning
RCEnigma — I like the fact you’re asking questions but I don’t know you enough to get a hard read. Townlean
tris — Intro horrible better posts later. Some associative tells make tris unlikely to be scum with a couple of people (will get my notes later). I also liked a lot of Tris’s later responses. Back to null.
Aristophanes Personally I liked his opener but after that his post felt buddy buddy. Titus pointed it out and I wasn’t quite sure then the thread with RC happened and I warmed up to the idea Titus had. I want to see Ari do a push and not be all buddy buddy. Scum pool
Iconeum Again shitty intro. Felt like he was sheeping and voting my scumread around the Ari wagon. Haven’t seen much to change that ick feeling. Scum pool
Plum — preplanned entrances always seem fake. I think that’s what I was picking up on earlier. They aren’t quite scum pool level but a scum lean.
Bellaphant — Interesting opening. I think it’s Townie and bad or scum and good. Commenting on “bad” plays is a scum tactic for brownie points. If Bella is scum it’s probably with Ari. However if she is town she posted a PBPA that didn’t really do much and if you really think something is bad you gotta provide an alternative. Gut says derp!Town but scum possibility there because if a slot is inactive why defend it?
Xtoxm —??? Are they a player? Would vig.
RadiantCowbells — I can’t read RC. I use Titus help. He pisses me off. I know this isn’t exactly as you asked but the more I think about RC’s playstyle I get angry. And I have to to read him.

Thilbert ??? Are they a player? Would Vig.
teacher — Townie vibes throughout. I like a lot of their interactions. They just “feel good”.
skitter30 — I go back and forth here. Sometimes in the start the interactions were odd. Especially around Plum and tris. I am having trouble figuring out if they are numbers or not. The only time I played iirc with Skitter we were scum so I don’t have a good basis. I am gonna guess town since he seems so different but it’s my first time trying to read them so...

Then there’s the interactions I need to catch up on still but I hope this helps.

[MathBlade]

Math/Skitter/Ari is the only scumteam that leaps out at me.

Hunt scummy players, not scummy teams.

That’s not how I operate. I used to do that then was even worse. I got told the tactic of look at the whole picture and who could be with who. If it comes to a compromise vote I would but I can’t just go “X is scummy” because almost anyone can be made scummy. It’s why I am good at scum. I take what is given and then give a person what they want. As town I care about what we need which is a scum lynch.

[MathBlade]

I care about how good people think my reads are solely in the context of if people think my reads are better they listen to me. It's utility.

Win rates and good reads aren’t what create victories. It’s teamwork. If you’re right but make me feel like shit that “good read” more than likely will be ignored. That’s how people work. So it’s why I want people to talk all theories even ones I know are false (Eg me being scum) because then more reads come off that.

[MathBlade]

eenie
meenie
miney
VOTE: rc

I hope Titus doesn’t kill me but I see a Xtoxm + RC world but it’s a remote one.

X could have been asked to vote RC if he was bored. It doesn’t seem random with the eeny meeny and it’s waaay too late for RVS

[MathBlade]

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

Hi plum. Why was Math calling out TW the post you needed to back off math and why didn't that turn into you pressing TW over it?

Follow-up question that might have been answered, why the Ari vote without interacting with him?

+1 I like the questions and this is the kind of hunting I like.
X does A. X should then do B. X didn’t do B why? Is there a relationship there that needs uncovering?

I need to relook at this later.

[MathBlade]

So Ico what's your take on me rn

UNVOTE:

This Unvote is ewww

Instead of answering they Unvote. No actual answer was given. Ico may scumread Plum may townread. People change votes for many reasons and plum doesn’t follow it up.

Likely one scum or more in Plum+Ico

[MathBlade]

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Why would you omit reads on some and share them on others? This seems odd like you’re holding back reads for a purpose. Just what is it exactly?

[MathBlade]

ank is stronger than i am.
she has math, rc, ico and tris as town
skitter as town but fragile.

and is scumreading rce, plum

i am withholding her read on aristophanes, and omitting nullreads

Please can we not do this? It's cool if your partners are influencing your reads but x is reading x slot town/scum influences ALL of the games.

I don’t see how it would? I have no problem reading a game and making notes of a players alignment and separating two separate games. Reading games makes one better. I will honor your request I just don’t get it.

[MathBlade]

Yes Ico. I kind of want to put you as weak town for the post you threw down a plum vote but I'm gonna put a pin in that.

Hi plum. Why was Math calling out TW the post you needed to back off math and why didn't that turn into you pressing TW over it?

Follow-up question that might have been answered, why the Ari vote without interacting with him?

To me it was mostly that he denied and blocked a would-be Townread of himself quickly and confidently ... but that doesn't mean I strongly agree with his interpretation of the worst's actions. The interaction reflected much more strongly on MathBlade than the worst, to me.

Ari is someone I had discussed with my team, actually. I had initially felt comfortable about him but on reflection I think that's just playstyle and the only thing that really stood out was being cautious with tris' Townread of him, calling himself an "easy pocket" but having thought about it I didn't think it was, as the kids say now, outside his scumrange. On reread, I agreed with a teammate. Call it gut, on both our counts. But I'll try to say what pings the gut, I don't love the tris vote (based on how "ruffled" she seems by MathBlade, but dependent on her own assessment of herself as an "emotional player" or not?), and feel that the response to MathBlade getting worked up about tris quoting RC without additions (something very commonly done in different forms - quoting without comment, quoting with "this" or "+1" appended) being that doing so was "negative scum equity" for tris ... it's kind of extra? Especially if he Townreads MathBlade, as he states shortly after?

I have another scumread shared with a teammate in teacher, which I'm holding for the moment in case the lack of desktop access was changing stuff there.

Can you expand on teacher scumread? I am just not seeing it.

[MathBlade]

I don't think you should but take this into account. I'm going to use this example but in reality I'm remaining impartial. Example:

Ank is scumreading me here, I know my alignment and I also know that Ank does not know me well enough to have a solid read on me. Now I have to make an assessment on your alignment based on a read from a player that isn't in this game. Because Ank could be feeding you a trajectory to create mislynches.

When I would much rather know how you yourself are reading the game because you're the one playing and the slot that I have to sort here, not Ank.

Does that make sense?

(Oh no Math is garcia-ing)

No. Here’s why. Let’s assume Ank is feeding stuff for mislynches. Sure Ank isn’t a player but that shit clearly won’t be natural. The paraphrase rule helps with that. She can’t just say “say the word tomato and link X game” because that will look like her. That becomes clear evidence of coaching that can be looked at for why. Why does this push have to happen right now this way?

Having people admit they are coached gives more information not less.

[MathBlade]

gotta say I'm not scumreading RcE and I'm not super keen on that read.

Oh no! We agree!

(Joking tone) Someone call the presses! The world is ending!


Gonna pause a bit and let others respond.

[MathBlade]

Sorry I must have missed it I am still not caught up yet. Friday nights and every other Saturday I have limited time in general so Mafia takes a back seat

[MathBlade]

VOTE: rcenigma

Feels awkward and contrived. Too much theory talk as well.
Skim reading, need to go back and look at the Ari stuff. Like the rc/the worst interaction over the last few pages.

Xtoms entrance sucks.

Liking ico right now , is making reasonable points.

I am thinking Ari Bella Ico maybe?

This is another post of Bella’s that ignores the main track of conversation and starts another wagon about a recent scumspect. I don’t see her like of thought either.

It also detracts by talking about other players at random, like she doesn’t care about voting rcenigma but more about the other elements of the post.

[MathBlade]

I understand that stuff can happen incidentally (I'm V/LA Fridays and Saturdays so I get it and get how there's a long gap, page-wise, between my posts this weekend) but it's frustrating getting called out for supposedly not doing something I absolutely did do because I considered it relevant.

Again I apologize I look for immediate wtf etc and didn’t see it. When I find it later I will examine that and go from there.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: rcenigmaFeels awkward and contrived. Too much theory talk as well. Skim reading, need to go back and look at the Ari stuff. Like the rc/the worst interaction over the last few pages.

can you also expand some on what you feel is awkward and contrived/theory plz

@Bella why did you ignore this? Will address your later post when I am done catching up so things make sense. I just skimmed it for a reply and saw none.

VOTE: Bella (will go into more detail when I am caught up)

[MathBlade]

ok so who are we voting now

i have a better vote

VOTE: Plum

no i never called you town but I was mostly just looking to see how people reacted to an early push

Huh

RC literally did but based on recent tone I am guessing it was sarcastic.

[MathBlade]

Can I unilaterally impose geriatric rules? This game doubled in size since I went to sleep. Time to ketchup.

Lol no. Otherwise you’d have maybe four posts every three days from me

Mondays and Fridays are almost complete no gos.
Work became a no go except 30 minute lunch break.

The game would never go anywhere.

[MathBlade]

Ok i didnt quite finish but i gotta bounce
Town: probably rc, probably tris, maybe plum, maybe rce, maybe ari
Not town: ico, tw, bella

Math i'm on the fence, i put him on both lists like three times but kept switching him since neither feels quite right. Gun to head i would say town and that what i dont like is more a playstyle difference than anything else

I kinda feel like math/rc would clash more if they were tvs

i like both plum/tris independantly, but i've been getting plum/tris vibes together, which might be a weird thing to say, but there you go

Teacher still hasnt done anything ai and i'm waiting for the weekend to form a read cuz i think he will be around more then

Oh yeah xtoxm's entrance was p bad too

VOTE: ico

I’d be willing to compromise on Ico but Bella’s posting is much worse.

[MathBlade]

Like literally: I told you that Mathblade's scum meta is LAMISTness. A lot of other people in this TM should know that and agree with me. He claims that his meta changed, but that's also what he claimed last time he rolled scum on MafiaScum when this variable was correctly pointed out. How do u turn around from that and say lolwhyisthatscummy?

I have a serious question: does Ank want her townread on Mathblade to supercede my scumread in actuality?

You’re right I LAMIST as scum. I also LAMIST as town. I get you don’t like me. I however am playing to win and that involves not messing with your ego. You’re going to spam the thread bc you want me gone.

If you’re going to do so at least be factually correct and post decent arguments so people can interact with what bs you’re spewing. You have the caliber to force this through. I just refuse to play your game and pretend it has any credibility. You throw around your name and play like it means something instead of actually being a teammate.

This game isn’t the RC show. I townread you after Titus explained how to. Therefore this is completely antitown. I can and will hunt. And if you think I am scum because I don’t bow down to the altar of RC then in your head imagine I am delivering a lot of spew and associations. I am sick of you scumreading people you don’t like every game and it’s plainly obvious.

Find one game you townread me in correctly a majority of the time. I’ll wait. Til then move the fuck on.

[MathBlade]

You know that in the keychain hydra game I hard townread your slot, I just wanted you dead anyway right?

So you gamethrew that game? And you’re pretty much doing it again.

You do this each game we play in. You just “want me gone” for reasons I don’t understand.

Bella being scum and/or misguided I at least respect their playstyle because they at least try and/or don’t pull this shit. Go away I am going back to the thread now. Keep yelling and pretending what you say matters.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: skitter

Now this is interesting.

There are many wagons and many different convos here and now a Skittter vote.

So what made things so strong for you at this point in time?

[MathBlade]

1. Post count by your previous logic
2. Pushing back on RCE’s gratuitous TL of me.
3. Raising matters of interest in my own time and not being driven off how I approach the game for the sake of appeasing the others who’ve voiced the same view as you. They don’t know better, you do, and it gives me the vibes of blendy laziness with a side of leaving me open.

I think that while this is more evidence that teacher is lock!town, the reasoning is imho bad.

Post logic should never be contributing to alignment unless some meta reasons.
I don’t see why the TL of you is gratuitous? You are one of my strongest townreads if not the strongest.

I don’t understand the last one?

[MathBlade]

eh, Skit, on reread now that Im on a computer and control-f'ing, you didnt repeat yourself as much as I had thought.
UNVOTE:

+1

I think teacher+rce is a good start to a town block.

I like a lot more of skitter’s posts up to this point and am putting them in town lean now.

[MathBlade]

So, I hate Day one. I'm catching up. very stream of consciousness

Page 1-6

Spoiler:

Mathblade's page one is super weird, really aggressive for no reason. Stands out the worst 13
Skitter's response is my response here, so early town lean. 24
Not seeing the fuss about 45, Plum's fine
46 actually feels town though. seems relaxed and confident. Followed up in 56. Town-feels
Ari's scum team in 78 is super weird.
96 of skitters is really, really damaging to my town read. 'could be this, or that. or that'. Yes, that's the game.
128 cool, rc is town

@ari, talk to me about your teacher read?

Page 7-13

Spoiler:

I'm not seeing the math scum read here, at all. they are being silly about the partners thing but not scummy.
186 oh, apparently rc is playing? like this response to plum
plum's vote on an absent slot is scummy 209 and even acknowledges this in the post.
more ari votes? this looks worst for the worst than RC.
Ico's plum reasons are fine.
Enigma comes in with some ok reads 320 is just good advice

Votes on ari's absent slot are just bad and you should all feel bad.
@ennimga, talk to me about tris and teacher?

14-18

Spoiler:

325 why? why? I hate the lack of content here.
343 etc were the posts I felt bad about 'theory crafting' from Enigma earlier. Posts like 359 are making me wonder if this is just my personality disliking the self aware/removed tone.
Still not seeing the ari scum-read. Even if I was, votes here are bad.
Skitters posting is not improving.
I can't make anything of teacher.

Can we stop just sheeping rc? Whether he's wrong or right it's super unhelpful for later analysis.

I work much better if people talk directly to me. I think I've played with plum ages ago, ari a few times and rc a bunch. Pls all come throw questions/ideas at me.
UNVOTE: skitter

(I'd vote for plum but my teammates like that they chatted to their team about ari. I'm thinking about it.)

This post here by Bella voting skitter (yes it says unvote but she meant vote as evidenced by the next post) is bad because she’s being very disingenuous about having questions and ideas thrown at her (as evidenced by her lack of reply) .

She goes out of her way to say Ari and Ico votes are bad in two separate posts while pushing other people.

The only thing I agree with is no one should be sheeping almost anyone without a damn good reason.

[MathBlade]

I like a lot more of skitter’s posts up to this point and am putting them in town lean now.

could you throw me some commentary about her recent posting which you like please?
preferably while you're in the moment; i'm really interested to see how your mind is working because i think i'm reading her roughly backwards from you.

Sure just a second Mobile posting

[MathBlade]

I mean, i didnt think so either ...

I dont particularly like this push on me, i think

There were also questions before where skitter said “I don’t think that’s town indicative of you” (paraphrase)
This shows that either Skitter is able to lie rather quickly that they are attempting a meta read of them or they have gotten way faster at outright lying. When I saw them first as scum they were in a neighborhood and the posting was not nearly as fast. While it’s possible that skitter got faster at rapidly lying and faking deep thought my gut says no and they are town.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: rcenigmaFeels awkward and contrived. Too much theory talk as well. Skim reading, need to go back and look at the Ari stuff. Like the rc/the worst interaction over the last few pages.

can you also expand some on what you feel is awkward and contrived/theory plz

@Bella why did you ignore this? Will address your later post when I am done catching up so things make sense. I just skimmed it for a reply and saw none.

VOTE: Bella (will go into more detail when I am caught up)

@teacher Why do you think Bella wants to talk with the worst and ignore Ico?

I am thinking possible teammates or Ico is asking a question Bella doesn’t want answered and maybe is teammates with worst instead?

[MathBlade]

Votes on ari's absent slot are just bad and you should all feel bad.
@ennimga, talk to me about tris and teacher?

Why are they bad? Fwiw I agree, but I don't disagree Ari could be scum here.

Tris I'd mostly a meta tone read. The way she omgus voted Math is reminiscent of her townplay in Port Arthur when scum pushed for her mislynch early.

Also I don't find Tris the kind of player to step back and say ok I'm going to attack math for attacking me because that's what town!me would do. In that way it felt very natural.

Rescinding my early townread on Teacher, we aren't on the wavelength regarding RC that I thought we were. The timing just made it seem like he was seeing what I was seeing. I'm also kind of attributing it to the fact I wasn't around during that time.

I don't want to call Teacher scum in any case, there were too many slots that zoned in on me calling Teacher town. It felt a lot like scum trying not to let a mislynch avenue collapse. I haven't parsed who or when yet but I'll get there.

This is when you townblock the person but if scum go on a roll look at them as a possible deepWolf. I don’t think you never ever vote someone but you and Teacher are as close to that as I can think of.

[MathBlade]

343 etc were the posts I felt bad about 'theory crafting' from Enigma earlier. Posts like 359 are making me wonder if this is just my personality disliking the self aware/removed tone.
Still not seeing the ari scum-read. Even if I was, votes here are bad.

Here’s the answer, in a spoiler.

No? That doesn’t answer the question. It ignores it with a “my bad” (paraphrase tone read mine)

It says she feels bad for making it? She didn’t say what her through process was just that she disliked the fact she made it. She didn’t address the question she went “whoops my bad” ignoring the point behind the question and then continues votes are bad.

No effort as to why. It’s like she expects because she said so she can just sidestep whenever someone makes valid complaints. It’s ugly.

Assuming that she is then town and I take her at her word that it is a “my bad” then what is left of the original post?

Does she reevaluate? Anything?

No she votes me for pressuring her when I brought up very valid points about her lack of connectivity with another “I gave an excuse why won’t you take it?”

@teacher even assuming this counts as a valid reply what do you make of her asking for worst by name?

[MathBlade]

If it was her bad then she has to re-examine what she said before.

Similar to me when I find the post Plum called out when I am done catching up.

[MathBlade]

Or to put it this way

I don't think Bella is scum unless Ari is as well I think

That may be quite possible. How Bella responds and reacts can tell a lot. It may be possible she knows Ari is town though, matching my first instincts on Ari. Since Ari is not here and Bella has an insight we don’t and doesn’t explain it making her explain with no “mea culpas” later would be a good start

[MathBlade]

Mathblade's page one is super weird, really aggressive for no reason. Stands out the worst 13

Given it was a pretty odd opinion and Mathblade is smart I figured he was taking a stance on something in order to kick the game off. This is what promoted my initial weak townpings actually - it felt like he seemed unafraid to look like kinda sloppy and not-towny in exchange for generating content.

I think I like this from you but I'm not fully sure why yet. Let me wake up.

Do you know why you like this yet? I am interested because I don’t see Bella town.

Has anyone played with her?

[MathBlade]

I wish that Worst wasn't either disengaged or scum or that between SKitter/Math one of them was someone else because I'm literally a huge antisynergy to this lobby unless I play dictator which I don't really want to do.

Then don’t. Play cooperative citizen and just bring cards to the table. Just like anyone else.

Also why can’t it be both disengaged and scum? Why are you assuming one or the other?

[MathBlade]

What in your experience is town!Bella vs scum!Bella?

[MathBlade]

Because I think scum is the superceding condition that defeats the purpose of questioning disengaged or not because either way I have no one to work with.

You could always pretend you townread me and work with me.

We worked well on Ari. Why are you hesitant to get me where you are on Bella and the rest of your reads?

If I assume you’re town then a you me combo in synergy? Can you just imagine how scared scum would be?

[MathBlade]

@math, how have i gone from derp-town (possibly) to scum based on an opening that didn't engage much with the game when like, I made it clear i was skim reading and had paid the most attention to the last few pages, and then went back and literally said 'wow, my read on rce was dumb'.

You've basically invented a narrative.

1) You have not kept a single memorable stance that wasn’t retracted by a my bad besides don’t vote Ari and don’t vote Ico.

2) You’ve ignored/“my bad” a lot of questions your way.

Why did you want to talk with the worst?

What do you make of their posts since you asked?

[MathBlade]

I'm gonna have to re-read plum in iso but I'm getting nothing on tris (super null) and I'd lean town on Ari. I wanna respond to plum anyway.

Can you give anything substantive?

Like this is just like nothing.

[MathBlade]

Ok I'll try my best

can you give me a full readslist

Is this @me or @bella?

[MathBlade]

you

Will do.

If you could please do yours as well do we see where we agree or disagree?

[MathBlade]

the worst >> Scum pool
Mathblade >> Towniest town to ever town that is really trying to be better at towning
RCEnigma >> uberTown
tris >> null, hope more comes. Probably town due to size of scum pool
Aristophanes >> scum pool, would Vig pool
Iconeum >> scum lean (but makes sense with Ari+Bella if either town reevaluate)
Plum >> Stock improving especially since their fallout of me. I like it. Town lean.
Bellaphant >> scum pool
Xtoxm >> would Vig pool null lack of posting would compromise
RadiantCowbells >> you’re RC
Flopz Thilbert >> see Xtom
teacher >> uberTown
skitter30 >> townLean

[MathBlade]

Your turn RC.

[MathBlade]

Agreed on the not worth it. What do you make of people not hopping on the wagon you started?

We do look mostly in agreement except Bella/Ico and Plum/Tris.

Talk about why you have those reads please?

[MathBlade]

I've asked the thread twice I think whether Plum's tone is scum indicative for them and my read on them is wholly based on the answer to that question because content wise they're not actually scummy

Tris, idk. It's hard to pinpoint why and I guess it mostly comes down to 2 things.
1) The only true scumread NSG gave in this game was Tris
2) I feel like the entire Ari->Tris thing was weird. Why did he single her out to talk to if they're not SvS

And I have said Plum’s tone especially their reply to my mistake was Townie? Sorry if I was unclear.

I think Ari scum is singling out puppets. Admittedly I don’t remember the Tris moment, but Ari’s posts as sporadic as they are, are probably buddy attempts with active users at that time. Either that or Ari is town. I don’t see any SvS motivation there as the same argument could be made towards memeing with you instead of content. It could be argued (incorrectly) me + Ari. The posts + reason has to be made and I think Ari is more likely to have a lack of association with buddies if scjm given VLA

[MathBlade]

i wouldn't say so. sometimes i guess.

Cool cool cool

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew (sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

VOTE: Tris

I think this a decent start to the game and have a few decent reads already, which is nice

This is not a push. This is one vote.

Admittedly I fucked up and memory was bad. I couldn’t remember him voting anyone.

If anything this means that if Ari is scum Tris is town due to the risk of a wagon actually succeeding and not being able to move his vote would be bad.

[MathBlade]

Aloha Muchachos. Hectic and Hopkirk have told me to sheep RC until they have a chance to look at the thread (might be a while). I'm not sure if they're joking or not but they've been quite relentless. It's 23.31 here so I'm gonna head off but I would like to reassure you that I will not replace out too, probably.

VOTE: mathblade

Bad job of sheeping RC said I am not a scumread.

He’s just being typical RC which is to focus on me til I am gone which is NAI and silly.

[MathBlade]

i wouldn't say so. sometimes i guess.

Cool cool cool

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew (sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

VOTE: Tris

I think this a decent start to the game and have a few decent reads already, which is nice

This is not a push. This is one vote.

Admittedly I fucked up and memory was bad. I couldn’t remember him voting anyone.

If anything this means that if Ari is scum Tris is town due to the risk of a wagon actually succeeding and not being able to move his vote would be bad.

????????

this is literally

a page 2 vote

you really think that scum would NEVER vote scum on page 2?

Any scum no. It happens.

A scum going on known VLA? That’s a huge risk I don’t think Ari would take.

[MathBlade]

And no I never said this. You're just trying to find evidence to support the theories you already have and disprove mine, not actually work with me.
I do not believe that you in general believe that scum wouldn't vote scum on Page 2. I do believe that you regardless of alignment have decided that you townread Tris and are going to defend her from me by any means possible.

I actually don’t townread Tris. Tris is null for me. I just don’t think Ari+Tris is a thing.

Do you think Tris is more likely scum than Ari?

[MathBlade]

No, I think your reasons for believing Ari+Tris isn't a thing are bad.

Let’s pretend Ari+Tris is a thing for a moment.

Do you think X or Flopz are a third?

[MathBlade]

no reason to say no, but also no reason to say yes.

i do think there's a weird centralization of the game around The Worst (not exactly correct phrasing but I am using it) whereby

Bella asked TW for opinions
Plum asked Worstie for his read on her
And several other people brought him up disproportionately

which i'm curious about how to interpret

but yeah it could easily be either of them and part of my problem solving this game is the huge # of true unknowns

I think that exists but the more I think about it I think if Bella is town something is wrong. I just wish the Ari wagon woulda picked up more steam. The fact people are saying no (especially Bella) without an explanation irks me.

Are you irked that people didn’t follow you onto Ari but are following onto me?

[MathBlade]

i'm irked by everything to do with this individual game and team mafia as a whole and i wish i didn't sign up for it tbh.

That didn’t answer the question?

Are you concerned your push on a nonscumread is working and your push on your scumread isn’t?

This doesn’t seem typical for you as any alignment.

Maybe try again on a scumread?

[MathBlade]

I mean, Aristophanes isn't here so there's no point wagoning him.

I didn’t say specifically Ari. A scumread. You scumread Plum and Tris.

Why not wagon them and see who sheeps to help figure out which? I disagree with the Plum read but that’s me.

You seem content to vote someone you don’t scumread.

You aren’t seeming to try to get data off of voting me, so why do it?

I don’t follow what you’re doing.

If wagoning me is useless and wagoning Ari is useless why not have your vote sit on a scumread while you figure out what is useful? This is horribly antitown.

So much so I need to chat with my teammates.

[MathBlade]

No one is actually here to wagon anyone.

That’s just not accurate. Only a few people are VLA.

You could also unvote so you’re not voting a not scumread.

Like RC if you’re town this is like definitional town

Town doesn’t let votes linger on townreads/not scumreads.

[MathBlade]

So then are you thinking I am 3P?

You realize I have an alignment right?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Ari

Then let’s vote Ari until they show up or a better scumread comes along.

Leaving a vote on a scumread is okay.

Bella, Xtom, or Flopz are all good wagons too imho.

[MathBlade]

I'm aware there's little justification for it and her associations with a scumread of mien aren't great but I think that Bella is town anyway for whatever reason.

Okay so then don’t vote Bella. We disagree there but I am waiting for people to give reasons that she is town if they townread her.

Vote Ari with me or a scumread of your own. Surely with as many posts as you have you have one?

You wanted an Ari wagon. Come back to it until you find a better spot. It’s where we agree.

[MathBlade]

this is an utterly pointless wagon if he isn't even around

The wagon isn’t about him. I scumread him but it’s something else.

Wagoning people in absentia can help with reads.

[MathBlade]

Extra Communication. We were scum without a dedicated way to talk.

[MathBlade]

@Skitter Tell me what you make of me + RC and RC not voting Ari when you get caught up and not before please.

[MathBlade]

oh ~that~ game
it was a fun one

i wasn't scum tho, you were with chip (? i think ?)
you n1'd me for nailing you iirc

Right lol I am old as fuck XD wow.

My brain is crit failing :crylaugh:

[MathBlade]

i may have been in a hood with you (?) i'm not sure, i don't remember the details @math

Nah I was hood less. I wanted the cop to check me for an inno.

I just swapped you and Chip.

I was dumb. Makes my meta read bad and I should revisit your posts.

[MathBlade]

Why do you think that I as scum would slip up in who I voted?

You realize that is exactly the kind of thing that I excel at as scum, correct?

Where is this coming from? I didn’t say anything about a slip up? I am asking Skitter this question for a reason.

And this I wouldn’t classify as a slip up. After being pointed out for almost a page where your vote is and not changing it, and not deliberating voting a scumread that wouldn’t be a slip up if I scumread you. That would be deliberate.

[MathBlade]

Apparently I am making up words now XD deliberating = deliberately (intentionally)

[MathBlade]

Or to put it this way

I don't think Bella is scum unless Ari is as well I think

i'm acutally really confused why everyone is so fixated on ari

like when he shows up we'll try to sort him
i think his entrance was lowkey townie, i don't get the urgency in this rn at all

I have a couple of reasons I can’t say why yet. But this wagon whether it goes through to lynch or not gives a lot of wagon info.

[MathBlade]

like out of everyone in the game what's the point of wagoning the guy that's not here and isn't going to be here for like a week ...
i just feel like there's better avenues to pursue rn

if we need to build wagons for the sake of building wagons let's pressure xtoxm or the replacement dude who at least might give an interesting response

They aren’t here either

X one shot and poof

Flopz isn’t here til tomorrow

This Ari wagon is juicy. It’s me and RC scumread.

[MathBlade]

I ask because while your initial post about the party hat was innocuous, your responses to Math calling it out were a little less so. I could see it from a newbie or someone like Nancy Drew

(sorry my compadre but it's apt and I know you understand) who is more likely to take things more emotionally or personally on a quick read. You seemed a lot more ruffled by Math than you needed to be.

this was like ... really random ...
but idk like how this thought process even like enters his head if he's scum here

I do. Buddying me.

[MathBlade]

They aren’t here either

X one shot and poof

well maybe wagoning him will unpoof him

either way i think in a vaccuum if we're just searching for someone to wagon this would be better than the guy who's not going to be here for like half hte phase

Nah Ari pops in and out during VLAs sometimes.

Xtom would be a better vig or force replace. Ari has content

[MathBlade]

A> Yes it is. But buddying is a good way to get a person who is vocal to keep you around.
B> maybe it was easier? I don’t know that’s a guess.

What I do know is <redacted> hasn’t happened yet and should have happened and I wanna not spoil that.

[MathBlade]

@Skitter Tell me what you make of me + RC and RC not voting Ari when you get caught up and not before please.

you + rc are exhausting to read rn ngl
i don't have super many thoughts but i think that you trying to work with rc/his reads is probably +town for you
i don't think i can give a good read on rc rn

i agree with him that voting ari is not going to accomplish super much rn

i think i want to go here
VOTE: bella

I am considering Ari is a tmi scumread from RC and Bella is a TMI townread. It’s a minor thing but if voting Ari is so useless he wouldn’t be scared/not do it but he is. And he doesn’t vote. He just posts.

I dare RC to prove my theory wrote and vote Ari or push a different scumread. He’s so good he should be able to do it and show me where I am wrong.

[MathBlade]

i already claimed investigative so i really have no intention of jumping through hoops to prove that I'm town to you or anyone

1) I don’t remember but as demonstrated I am old
2) You claim impossible shit all the time. If you thought you’d get an and advantage you claim impossible shit.
3) You lie to serve whatever purpose you desire as town or scum.

To quote a popular novel “Quite frankly RC I don’t give a damn”

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Flopz

You agree with me too much, plus you didn’t actually vote Ari when you said Ari is a scumread.

It’s exactly the same problem I have with RC but RC had other content,

Bella Flopz Ari?

[MathBlade]

Xtoxm votes would be cool.

Vig or replace would be better.

Ari at least has some content.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Flopz

Some of the fakest looking scumhunting etc. I've seen in quite some time. Caveat that the worst look was just the line "Ari is a big SR for me, for the usual reasons, the Maths pocket attempt was not cool." and that alone looks like Ari-buddy material.

Do you mean buddy me? It’s hard to buddy to buddy an SR.

What do you make of Ari Bella Flopz?

Possible yes/no

Titus is saying Bella is town to be transparent hence I am not voting there atm. She just says if Bella is confusing she is town. That makes like no sense to me.

[MathBlade]

Mainly the reason I think Flopz is better than Bella is RC and Titus think she is town. They both can’t explain it at all though,

If the majority of the group wants Bella and she flips scum then lynch RC.

If the majority want Bella and she is town I just sign and that is lock RC town unless Ari + Flopz or Ari + you (Plum)

On the other hand Flopz is the safer lynch as the prior player never posted. Then the fact they’d be here then disappeared after they saw I wouldn’t mislynch.

[MathBlade]

So it’s not that Flopz is buddying Ari you think Ari has a buddy that is Flopz?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: flopz xtoxm there's like a near 0% chance we have a vig

Hey when you get a chance you got a lot of questions.

Not sure why you’re ducky popular.

If we have a vig I hope they are smart with it. I don’t have any reason why or why not there would be a Vig but I was hoping threat of Vig would make people show up.

@implosion — Can you poke/replace Xtomz

[MathBlade]

i don't like, outright townread flopz, but i think the odds of scum having this entrance are significantly lower than the odds of the majority of other potential poe slots being scum

Iirc Flopz was in your scumpool yeah?

You won’t vote Ari you won’t vote Flopz? What gives? Like I get the instinct thing but like playing differently and just not voting anyone in your scumpool is a stretch. First Ari, now Flopz?

[MathBlade]

vaguely, assuming ari is scum, i'm assuming 1/2 {plum/tris} from his rule of 3 and 1/3 {xtoxm iconeum flopz}

Or he broke Rule of Three or Ari is town. Rule of three isn’t always accurate. It’s a guideline not a mandate.

For newer players
Rule of three = anytime scum give a list of three or more people as scum more often than not one or more is (but not always true)

[MathBlade]

like he as scum wouldn't talk about how he has good reads already and then give a solve that contained 0 scum. I would absolutely do that as scum. Aristophanes would not.

I am reaaaaaaaallly trying here but you’re kinda fuelin my paranoia here with that statement. Lunch break is over I gotta head back but hopefully Ari comes back soon.

[MathBlade]

yeah no that shouldn't fuel your paranoia at all. scum who talk about how good their reads are at a point in the game are generally bussing at the time. scum who talk about how uncertain their reads are are generally voting townies.

this isn't as effective against stronger players but I've caught tons of stronger scum players off of the ISOs of their weaker scum players using logic like this.

The part that fueled my paranoia was that it wasn’t an Ari thing it’s an RC one. Fueling paranoia of you coaching Ari to do a list with no scum that you could puppet later after a bus of Ari.

[MathBlade]

Especially Ari could have said “Hey Raybells you gotta take this as Plotz is new and I am on VLA. How can I set you up?”

(Paraphrase)

That is something that could be a thing. You feed him to buddy me and then tell him break rule of three.

That is my paranoia.

[MathBlade]

The problem is that there’s not a good way to figure out if you’re scum bussing or scum fail or town accurate or town fail.

I have to work now but Titus is waffling due time niceness.

You said you have partners. I understand your reluctance can they talk more about the gamestate? Do they agree with Ari scum? What are their pools like? What do they make of Flopz? Anything? Because it’s not like NSG to be tunnelvisioned. She hates that about me and something I have been working on.

[MathBlade]

The problem is that there’s not a good way to figure out if you’re scum bussing or scum fail or town accurate or town fail.

I have to work now but Titus is waffling due time niceness.

You said you have partners. I understand your reluctance can they talk more about the gamestate? Do they agree with Ari scum? What are their pools like? What do they make of Flopz? Anything? Because it’s not like NSG to be tunnelvisioned. She hates that about me and something I have been working on.

Don’t know why your niceness became time niceness.

[MathBlade]

ok to be clear

NSG on page 3 said your townread on me was weird and that tris's tone was scummy

that is the entirety of the thoughts that she has given on this game up to this point

Then work with them please if you’re town.

I get you’re a hotshot but waiting around for Ari makes the game stagnate.

See if they agree with Ari scum.

[MathBlade]

I am considering Ari is a tmi scumread from RC and Bella is a TMI townread. It’s a minor thing but if voting Ari is so useless he wouldn’t be scared/not do it but he is. And he doesn’t vote. He just posts.

i feel like rc is the last person on the planet to be scared to bus ari
i don't really get this read, he's been amping up to vote there for a while now

Are you caught up? He like refused to vote any of his scumreads for like a page.

[MathBlade]

I gotta go but I will take that under advisement but I feel something weird and can’t put my finger on it.

[MathBlade]

What are we in a very spicy world now?

*chuckles*

Like 5+ pages came up during D&D gonna have to catch up as I can later.

[MathBlade]

goodnight!

i think you should leave your vote off for now, the implied pressure is there.

I disagree btw

More the merrier.

[MathBlade]

this reads like Ico/Flopz scumteam.

Why do you say that?

I kinda think we need a flip to get things moving.

[MathBlade]

uh, no thank you. multiple players have sub 10 posts. the game won't start moving any faster.

The only players under 10 are Flopz, likely scum
Xtom who seems very inactive
And Ari on VLA

At the same time multiple people have mentioned feeling blah.

The best way to get rid of that is accomplishing something

[MathBlade]

Nope not even Ari he’s above 10.

A flip will help loads.

[MathBlade]

Oh Bella’s under 10. She needs to post more.

[MathBlade]

No, math, no.

Why not? A well defined scum case is there.

A majority of my townreads are on it.

Why would lynching a scumread be a bad thing?

[MathBlade]

also 1013 is a really weird post to make as town, ngl, so that is kinda reinforcing my current scumteam read

Is 3P possible?

That sounds like a 3P / SK statement or one that knows of multiple evil killers.

Seems odd for a 13 P game. Have any 13Ps had an SK?

[MathBlade]

i'm not scum, i'm not bussing

just trying to figure out the game like a good town

This feels staged.

[MathBlade]

i think you're discrediting the idea that i'm the obvious nightkill because you want to make sure that I'm not protected

another piece of evidence to that theory is the fact that you reached out to both Mathblade and Skitter30 but not to myself, I think you're just looking to kill Flopz and then wait for me to be dead so you can lynch Bella.

I think it’s actually something else but I wanna see where you take this.

[MathBlade]

did you know no one on that list has ever been nightkilled before me

Raybells. Take this direction but in a different way. What would cause Ico if scum to suggest a NK other than you?

[MathBlade]

Raybells. Take this direction but in a different way. What would cause Ico if scum to suggest a NK other than you?

in this game? literally nothing.

And if you don’t die? Then what?

[MathBlade]

then scum are going into day 3 with 1 member alive.

And if this is false?

Say hypothetically if Person X is lynched and is town.
Person Y is shot and flips town.

What happens when you wake up tomorrow?

[MathBlade]

also 1013 is a really weird post to make as town, ngl, so that is kinda reinforcing my current scumteam read

Is 3P possible?

That sounds like a 3P / SK statement or one that knows of multiple evil killers.

Seems odd for a 13 P game. Have any 13Ps had an SK?

We're playing a normal.

The game should have at least one Mafia or Werewolf group (of at least two members). In mini games (at most 13 players), there must be exactly one such group, with no third parties. In large games (at least 14 players), a second anti-town group can be given a separate Mafia family name, or can be a Werewolf group, and there should be no more than two mafia/werewolf factions, and no more than one Serial Killer.

From the wiki. Depending upon how they place articles SK possible.

If proper grammar then SK isn’t possible. If colloquial phrasing it is possible

[MathBlade]

I am crashing good night. I have work and fam stuff tomorrow people.

[MathBlade]

oooh Flopz is here.

Can you point me to your reads? I haven’t had a chance to catch up as I just woke up and there’s a lot of pages.

If you could just do that that would be awesome.

[MathBlade]

i think that mathblade is scum with implosion

i am a gunsmith and can confirm that implosion has not one but two guns

Can you like stop faking shit already?

We all know you’re a super arrogant asshole and I am trying desperately not to repeat my mistake when you fake claimed PGO and I had proof it was impossible but ugh you are making it really hard not to rage at you right now.

What the fuck is this supposed to be, fair critique my ass.

You’re missing history for that for starters.

RC when you catch up views himself as one of the best players of all time.
He takes pride in it and brags about it.

However he refuses to look at what his fake claiming and other actions do sometimes.
He fake claims stuff so much he’s like the boy who cried wolf to me.

The post is not toxic it’s me literally trying not to be.

Secondly the prior posts rage while feeling genuine doesn’t feel Townie.
Taking a brief look at your ISO you’re screaming that you’re scumread before you came in what are you supposed to do? Give reads. Vote people.

Your ISO reads “I have no fucking clue how to survive.” Which is a scum mentality.
A town mentality is “How do I find the scum pushing/sheeping my wagon?”

[MathBlade]

Spoiler:

I haven't done enough for anything to go either way

I was scumread before even joining the game, what am i supposed to do about that?

dude stop the toxicity i beg you

i can't handle it

RC isn't the problem.

In this I agree. RC hasn’t been toxic he’s just not being RC which has me all kinds of paranoid.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: xtoxm

Why did you switch to xtom?

[MathBlade]

It feels really gross to have a Poe of all lurking slots but like TW is a team townread (I think his recent posting is also probably town indicative.)

Math is a team townread (I'm not a fan of the buddying tone but it's also not only directed at me so it could be posting style I'm disagreeing with)

Made my bed with the Tris read and RC pushing there makes me double down so not voting there.

I want to get into my skitter trajectory but it will make the most sense to Skitter so I'll wait on that.

RC I planned on largely ignoring but has a fair amount of scum equity. He's not a lynch today because of the claim (scummy imo) and if he does night 1 I'll eat my hat.

There just aren't a lot of suspects left in the pool.

My gut says to wagon RC but at the same time I realize how completely antitown that is.

What do you and your teammates think of this?

[MathBlade]

I thought you said you were good at mafia now

There was no need to lie tbh

I said I am improving by spending time on other sites.

And I am not lying. I am debating wagoning you and I want RCE’s thoughts on it.

[MathBlade]

1) True but most is spam
2) False again most posting is spam. You haven’t done any pushes and I have had to remind you where your vote is.
3) That’s not how mafia works. Otherwise scum just put up any read wall “whoops can’t lynch them”
4) You’ve claimed investigative. You’ve also claimed impossible results in that it’s a tenant of MafiaScum D1 results don’t happen.
5) I am not trying to lynch you. I am debating wagoning you for reads and if you react poorly you’d be scum,

It is not negative town equity to consider anyone scum.

NSG not reading posts is NAI or maybe she’s annoyed with you or doesn’t want to fake reads. Lots of reasons.

[MathBlade]

Sometimes you have had better reads.

That however is gamblers fallacy. Past success or failure at reads has no bearing on what alignment you have this game.

Why is it whenever I try to read you you insult me as either alignment instead of letting me get feedback from others?

If I am wrong they can tell me I move on.

[MathBlade]

Math I'm not insulting you

I'm just stating things that are true.

Not going down that rabbit hole.

I am not bickering with you for pages.

Just gonna wait for RCE to get back if he would wagon you.

[MathBlade]

That's rhetorical I'm assuming.

Okay let’s assume we aren’t wagoning RC. Who would RC be scum with? How would you go about sorting RC without wagoning him?

[MathBlade]

is there an auto-vc skimmer or bot that scrapes threads here?

one made by the lovely Mathblade actually! But it needs control data in post#0 which we don't have here.

There is however while it is public people complained when I missed team mafia last year or two ago providing it was townsided. Between that and AWS being too expensive I released a personal PC version in the forums. I am at work so can’t go over it atm. It only works off public stuff and isn’t 100% perfect but kinda close. I haven’t set it up for this game even.

[MathBlade]

i'm not sure how you think it's reasonable to expect me to treat the current "discussion of me being scum" with anything besides bottomless contempt.

Humility? Looking back at ones own play to find what is scummy?
Teamwork?
Not demanding your way or highway?
Poking more?
Asking questions?

[MathBlade]

ugh

+1

[MathBlade]

@flopz, you seem disgusted by the fact you are being scumread right now.

Do you think there are any good reasons for us to be townreading you?

I haven't done enough for anything to go either way which is why i'm so exhasperated for the calls for my head when all I've done is drop in and say hi.

meh this is kinda townie, actually

Not really.

His read wall is what is kinda townie but it makes me wonder if anyone has played with Flopz before. I am getting unnatural vibes. I am wondering if it is due to inexperience or playstyle or Flopz is scum.

[MathBlade]

What really scares people is not the artificial intelligence in the computer, but the natural intelligence they see in the mirror.

Do you have a post restriction?

[MathBlade]

remember shadowing a while back? I just thought of that for some reason.

No?

What are you talking about?

[MathBlade]

was hoping to see if pushing him on scumreading MathBlade while accusing Ari of trying to pocket MathBlade as scum would tempt Ari to overcommit and show his hand (actually this was primarily hito's brilliant plan) but Flopz's subsequent posts and the more general Townread that formed on him (again, which I am inclined to agree with) kind of dumped that as a play.

This is the best part od plum's post and is kinda townie imo

I'm starting to become lowkey creeped out tho that everyone is kinda coalescing on the same general readlslist. Like either scum is like just the lurkers or are super happy with the current gamestate and idk how to tell which it is rn

We’re not.

The game just turned into sheep RC and disagree he complains so I am trying a new strategy of shut up and just snipe post my reads at eod.

[MathBlade]

What really scares people is not the artificial intelligence in the computer, but the natural intelligence they see in the mirror.

Do you have a post restriction?

Not considered normal these days i think

No idea what teacher is saying

Post restrictions aren’t normal ever. I was trying to see how long Xtom would go with it and what I could learn.

[MathBlade]

The thing is that i kinda largely agree with his reads tho
Where do u differ?

He did overeact yesterday tho, yeah

I don’t have time for a reads list I gotta clock in.
It’s already on record.

[MathBlade]

Hey Math

Can I get your thoughts on exactly TW/Ari/Tris?

Max one scum and that would be Ari and that’s a maybe. I really gotta go.

[MathBlade]

And it’s why arguing with you is fruitless. You’ve made up your mind without reasons why you’re wrong.

And if I bother to post something different you brag about how good you are.

I don’t worship you or anyone.

[MathBlade]

Klick likes flopz's reads..ceph thinks ico is town. I'm gonna iso Tris.

Who does Ceph think is scum?

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Bella

No way Ceph doesn’t have any scumreads yet or an inkling or something unless he is scum.

[MathBlade]

And you do know I was always planning on unvoting you if I became sure you were town right?

Do I have to say that?

Yes because it’s clearly demonstrated you don’t.

[MathBlade]

Bad vote.

Then let’s see who sheeps it.