Team Mafia 2020 Normal Game: Scum PT

[Xtoxm]

i also have rc on my blacklist and am much disappoint to be dealt the game with him
theres a good chance things between us will get toxic
oh well lets see how it goes

[Xtoxm]

anyone wanna claim masons w/ me

neighborizer => pt cop mebe?

[Xtoxm]

ya srs
rc will want to powerlynch me so i'll need something big to last long

[Xtoxm]

i think it would be a fun gambit to try
it would be easy enough to abort right (prior to actually claiming), real masons would be trying to stay hidden + faking reads, not putting each other at top of readslists etc.

[Xtoxm]

aight no worries.

[Xtoxm]

getting tpr vibes from the duck

[Xtoxm]

youre doing great

[Xtoxm]

ive been rcs intended lynch since the start, hes just doing some other things first

[Xtoxm]

no. theyre focused on their own games, im the only one in my team so far who is reading/commenting on the other games
im hoping theyll find time at some point

[Xtoxm]

hbu

[Xtoxm]

ive done some initial thinking, rc's gamestate read of scum team being the lurk poe due to feeling defeated, while it catches me and tris, it probably leads also to ari+flopz dying as collateral.
so if we view skitter as the endgame potential, that would get you to 5p
main worry is making sure we find the prs to take out

[Xtoxm]

i mean my only tpr read atm is duck.
it seems like hes

trying

to look like a bad nk with getting into fight with rc and being mild scummy here and there

rc feels vanilla with the invest claim, and with him having you as top tier town i feel like hes not really a value kill?

but i think its clear you are our #1 end game potential rn, and i'd like to curate the game around which players you feel are best for you

[Xtoxm]

for tris im thinking she could claim a 1 or 2-shot loyal neighborizer maybe
not sure if thats like been done to death as a scum strat i dont really play normals

[Xtoxm]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11495372
for whenever the scum pt is released ^^^

i think this is hilariously ironic

um this is a link to the current page our main game, is it meant to link elsewhere or am i reading the post wrong?

[Xtoxm]

oh right you're talking to future spectators not me, i get it now lol

[Xtoxm]

can i ask you for your teammates opinion on what we're doing here?

i plan to discuss our night actions with my team and anything they suggest pass back on im sure is fine, paraphrased of course
(assuming im alive n1 lol)

[Xtoxm]

everyone seems to be just giving me a free pass.
but ive been focusing on my teammates games and talking in the pt so at least im still enjoying team mafia, and not stressing myself out trying to deal with rc
i do wish i felt able to contribute more, given that i rolled scum

[Xtoxm]

if i had to pick between {bussing and looking good} or {keeping you lot alive but looking bad if you flip the next day} i think i'd rather the former because i can carry in that situation but would be under suspicion i'd rather avoid in the latter

you ok with bussing in this situation?
not gratuitous, but if i think i can read it?

absolutely fine. no issue.

[Xtoxm]

kinda wanna know if mastina has any thoughts on this whole situation

i'll let her know.
she's very busy so could be a while, but she has no other personal requests so hopefully can get back to you at some point.

[Xtoxm]

maybe it's possible to run up enough paranoia around him tom if we nk tw tonight? like maybe he gets lynched there?

while i dont think rc paranoia lynch is entirely unfeasible, if we gave it enough nights, thats not what i was suggesting.
i just dont think, if we're basing the game around you, that n1 is the right time for it.
me flipping scum would support his theory. the time to kill him is maybe after hes mislynches the 2nd time? thats when he would know he really needs to rethink things
but you know him better than me

[Xtoxm]

if you could just like ~not get lynched today~ that would be a big help, but like no stress

happy you're enjoying tm!

i think rc is willing to give a pass for today so i don't think you end up today's lynch

yeah i kinda figure full shitpost mode is the best chance? since rc jumped down my throat on the only actual post i made
kinda lame but oh well
feeds his narrative of "scum have given up" after i flip too

[Xtoxm]

alternatively, if we nk rc can we force a tw lynch tomorrow even if he claims pr?

i feel like duck goes hyper obv town mode when hes a pr
and i also feel he looks rly town rn in his push on rc?
but math apparently sr him

of course all this duck pr talk is just a hunch and can be way off, heh

[Xtoxm]

you're doing a fantastic job!

im pretty sure id be tr you here as well if i wasnt scum since i still remember you as the person who hates playing scum from sc1

[Xtoxm]

i feel like it would be pretty suicidal
but im down to take the bullet if thats what you want

i think ari is probably vanilla since his comment about "lynch away if i dont turn up by sunday"

[Xtoxm]

wud feel a bit bad since ari wont get to play his game like at all
but its more rcs fault than mine

[Xtoxm]

i think a lot of people have started coasting, like teacher and rcenigma, due to rc's dominating the thread
and they could become viable targets as a result
ive never seen rce post so little as town

[Xtoxm]

that was a kinda on the nose way of saying "i want to see if rc dies"
but i felt i should respond to duck reaching out to me like just personally as a friend more than anything

[Xtoxm]

if you do change your mind and want him hammered the offer is very much still on the table, btw
just say the word

[Xtoxm]

kuribo said RC is too volatile, liable to change reads quickly and should not be kept around long.
mastina hasnt replied yet.

have you given any thought to possible claims for me/you?
for me something with a chance to squeak by for ~one more day~ would be ideal

[Xtoxm]

2-shot jk maybe
or the 1-shot loyal neigh if tris doesnt want it

idk, feels weak. lack setup info.

[Xtoxm]

thoughts on who tris should neighborize?

plan to claim 1-shot loyal: holster
plan to claim 2-shot loyal: possibly you, or someone in the null list (not me)
plan to claim regular neighborizer: rce listed tris as a top tr and seems like a good candidate for her

[Xtoxm]

its a nice role in that it only hard guilties on basically the weakest living scum member that we've sent off to do kills
still wouldnt trust that its not some kind of gambit from him but hes the default kill option anyway so whatever

[Xtoxm]

i think it would be a weird choice to put a vig in the mini of TM cus it induces a lot of swing
detective is also not really very strong to need an anti synergy i feel?

p-ed
yeah not convinced either

[Xtoxm]

and now sigh we're going to go thru another like 3 irl days of this

sorry for not just taking the oppurtunity to hammer, i felt like equivocated would like better when he inevitably flips town, esp. if i'm not on wagon given my stance on him already

seems so unfortunately.
hammering was probably not sensible but you are prob utr enough to get away with it
thing is im fairly confident in the ari vanilla read so im not really hype at about his lynch. better than scum but thats all.

p-ed
im definitely expecting a pt cop

he regularly designs/reviews normals so im sure all the roles and stuff are pretty much on his mind to fake claim if he wants to.

[Xtoxm]

mhm
the people not reading the game are like "get rid of rc asap"
but hes totally destructive to the gamestate right now
most of the game is demotivated to post

[Xtoxm]

yeah not looking forward to wading into the pigshit

[Xtoxm]

lets see how the day ends and review, its no longer looking close to a conclusion
if we decide to leave rc/tw (which im not entirely sold on)
then math seems a good option

[Xtoxm]

i see what kuribo means tho, a couple ari posts and rc has gone from wanting him dead without a claim to putting him at null
his reads change like the wind
and people are sheeping him so we could still end up literally anywhere for todays lynch

[Xtoxm]

its ok.
we have identified ari as probable vanilla, he should be lynchable later in the game
maybe we even get a real claim from today if we're lucky

[Xtoxm]

rc's dictatorship lynches do have a habit of being most/all town, and i expect that to be brought up anyway down the line, so im not sure it matters too much.
im staying off tho since its what town-me would do

[Xtoxm]

had a look at implo's past designed normals
how he builds setups tends to be
1 weak maf pr
2x goon
4x tpr
1x functionally vanilla named role
5x vt

he seems to like loyal modifiers on town, so good chance of one of those

[Xtoxm]

mastina says she cant read the game, but she says kill rc

[Xtoxm]

he hasnt commented, no
i feel that way too

if hes actually going to force a 1v1 on duck that would be good for us

[Xtoxm]

regardless of whatever else happens tho we need to find prs, otherwise we'll get mechanically caught out

[Xtoxm]

Rc tomorrow?
Idk n2
And then tw day3?

let me stop you right there
1 day at a time
anything can happen overnight, including a hard guilty

[Xtoxm]

i'm thinking someone could claim informed that scum have a {rolecop maybe}?

im against it, but what is
1) the logical justification for this
2) why would town reasonably be informed of this?

[Xtoxm]

also, fyi, ive seen a number of "red herring" mafia roles lately
so neighborizer doesnt necessarily imply a pt cop
just to keep in mind

[Xtoxm]

i dont know that rc is one tbh
id feel more comfortable in a non-rc player claiming pr to kill

[Xtoxm]

he claimed it on d1 and under no pressure
he was planning to do it and found a moment to make it look like it was a pressure/emotion response
its some kind of gambit, gotta be

[Xtoxm]

can you relay this over to mastina/pine and ask them what they think:

-> rc wants to be bop'd on any of 2 (mabye 3) townies - tw, plum, and provisionally ari
-> if any of them flip town i think he loses most credibility to push thru his chosen lynches
-> p much nobody cares that he's claimed investigative
-> i think if he stays alive tonight tw/rc will be a 1v1 tom
-> whenever rc flips town tw is set up to go next, is aware of this, and is picking fights with him anyways because he thinks rc is scum. like he believes that if rc flips town he never endgames
-> this entire rc/ari/tw thing is paralyzing the game/gamestate and making it diffuclt for like half half the game to play, yielding several possible 'scum lurker lynch' mislynches
-> both sides of tw/rc are heavily pocketed by me and both want me to take their side. i'm not cocky enough to think that i solely decide which way it'll go, but i'll have a lot of sway on both ends and as of right now i don't think i get super much fallout for making either decision tomorrow
-> like people are seriously starting to talk about lynching rc just to fix the gamestate, and me and several other people have said that if his chosen lynch flips town he will be pushed tomorrow and nobody has a problem with me stating this multiple times (and all of his chosen lynches are mislynches)

i will relay it, but let me say: you are overestimating the amount of teamwork/discussion going on in our team. my teammates are all busy and pretty much just focusing on their own games.
i think we'll need to come to our own decision on this.

btw, am i allowed to quote into the team pt, or do i have to paraphrase in that direction as well?

[Xtoxm]

i dont feel like rc is actually lynchable?
a LOT of people are tr him and sheeping him
i think its more likely that he would lynch duck for us.
after that, maybe hes lynchable if we still wanna risk keeping him.

[Xtoxm]

i don't know if he is lynchable but he is definitely a chaotic force that i kinda want to utilize into mislynching people for us

this is my thinking too. chaos and his total crippling of the game state currently is good for us.
he'll turn on me sooner or later, i have the lowest endgame equity anyway so thats ok.

[Xtoxm]

but even then i think an argument can be made taht he was bullshitting to get the outcome he wanted

you know i did wonder about this.
like, are they actually masons with an elaborate plan to avoid being nked?
it seems too extreme tho, since they have actually destroyed the game and no one is having fun

[Xtoxm]

yeah, thats the conclusion i came to.
its worth asking questions tho, even ones that sound absurd

[Xtoxm]

i'm thinking someone could claim informed that scum have a {rolecop maybe}?

im against it, but what is
1) the logical justification for this
2) why would town reasonably be informed of this?

this was meant to say "not against"
but, rolecop seems a weird thing to be informed of.
usually informed serves a purpose, ie, informed of traitor in a 4-scum setup

[Xtoxm]

we could probably still rolefish elsewhere if you guys unvoted
idk
risky

[Xtoxm]

actually a bunch of people gave intent so maybe not

[Xtoxm]

My read rate soars when I'm mislynched but engaged.
1 scum in {rc}, 1-2 in {plum, flopz}

duck also coming in with an all town solve
today has not been towns day

[Xtoxm]

either rc or someone in the list of 3 tw just called never lynches
i dont have any particular tpr read :/

[Xtoxm]

tris have you thought about what u wanna claim/what night action u wanna do?

[Xtoxm]

rce is tr you and tris tho
he scumread me but i feel like when i flip that will reinforce his reads?
why do you want kill him

[Xtoxm]

people who have expressed willingness to vote rc are rce and math.
theres the 3 of us, which would make 5. certainly fits for me and you, maybe not tris quite so much.
do you think anyone else would vote him?

[Xtoxm]

theres still in my thinking that rc is the only pr lead we have.
killing vanillas at night is really bad for scum ev, since these normals tend to be townsided and if prs live to long, scum get mechanically caught out.

although i do agree it feels like a waste when the duck and his team spent so long shouting about him being scum. people might listen to that.

[Xtoxm]

just vig him 4head
reeks of scum saving an easy lynch for later
how often do you get vigs in a mini normal

Pretty often.

Tbh just me being in the game makes the likelihood of a vig go up.

do you think this could be a non-vt indication?
my instincts were NAI but im looking for anything since ive got no ideas.

[Xtoxm]

{RC}
{RCE Skitter Mathblade}
{Teacher}
{Ari, Flopz} (Flopz heavily contingent on Icoscum, drop him lower if Icotown)
{Xtoxm} - null line
{Plum, Tris, Bella}
{byeconeum}
{lalaladucks}

mastina said when a renowned player has bad reads and you kill them, its fuel for the rest of the game.
we've certainly got that here.

[Xtoxm]

assuming pt cops exists, do you prefer removing the hard guilty from you, or removing a hard clear from town?

[Xtoxm]

Idk i guess if tris flips first how bad do i look if she neighborized me?

no worse than any random townie we pick.
i dont think it would hurt too much?
i do like the idea of her claiming loyal/disloyal

[Xtoxm]

I dont think we need to create ambiguous guilties, i think we need more ambiguous innos so that we have people to kill

Or am i looking at this wrong ?

well, its catastrophic if end up guilted..but youre probablyyyyyy not a likely target at this point

[Xtoxm]

implo, if player A is neighborized, and in the same night scanned by a pt cop, what is the result the pt cop receives, assuming player A is not prior in a pt?

[Xtoxm]

I dont think we need to create ambiguous guilties, i think we need more ambiguous innos so that we have people to kill

Or am i looking at this wrong ?

well, its catastrophic if end up guilted..but youre probablyyyyyy not a likely target at this point

I'd almost prefer her on u in that scenario ?

i think the optics of her targeting me are not particularly great
if she comes out with a result on me, then i think people are going to be inclined to think we're both scum
if you're ok to committing her life to mine, we could do it.
im kinda hoping that you/tris could endgame together

[Xtoxm]

- how does a neighborizer work, technically ? Are her targets added to the same thread each night? Do like if me/tris are in the thread tonight does her n2 target see what we spoke about? Or is a new hood opened?

i was assuming seperate hoods, but no clue.

implo?

- if loyal and she targets me and ultimately flips ... i think that i'm going to be under a lot of pressure wrt not dying

again, no more than any random townie we pick. i think it would be fine. your behaviour around it will be more important that the claim

- i'm thinking she maybe claims disloyal and hopefully gets far enough to lylo and claims a guilty ? Like maybe odd night or whatever?

we need to make the decision of loyal/disloyal fairly early. going for one of us tonight allows us to dleay the decision.

- i prefer she claim gated in some way

agreed. i suggested 1/2 shot earlier, but odd/even or whatever is also fine.

[Xtoxm]

btw, claiming a fake a guilty on a townie is hard. it creates a 1v1 and the other person will likely react in a very readible way, so it depends whether tris thinks she can pull it off.
i would lean toward to loyal route for this reason. the townie she picks to call conftown isnt going to refute that theyre town.

[Xtoxm]

again, no more than any random townie we pick. i think it would be fine. your behaviour around it will be more important that the claim

Well more in the sense that i'd be 'conftown' and not dying

Like if we conftown me n1 and conftown say bella n2 and bella dies n3 i look bad day 4

(I run into this problem a lot)

yeah we're not doing that
it gives us the *option*
if shes forced to claim on d2 then we dont claim that shes loyal and that she hooded you n1 like ever. even if she actually did.

[Xtoxm]

its more for if
ico claims pt cop and skitter is in a hood
oh, thats cus i was hooded

[Xtoxm]

still need a reply from implo on that.
but yeah if its single hood and you dont wanna fake a convo in there we can just grab townies instead

[Xtoxm]

Right ...

We just need to keep the loyal thing consistent in the hood if we ever plan on having more than one person in jt

Like the dates need to add up and everything

yes. if you're a loyal neighorizer and you hood someone, you're gonna basically fullclaim to them immediately, so tris would need to fake that.
you'd wanna show a little uncertainty probs.

[Xtoxm]

And i kinda think that keeping rc alive is the right play tb

you have my full support to make the kill you feel is best.

[Xtoxm]

i do theres a possibility rc just realclaimed since he was expecting to be the n1 and was just like "why not".
just wouldnt surprise me if its total bullshit either

[Xtoxm]

yeah
could you answer the other questions we asked you/about your role earlier

[Xtoxm]

it's a group neighborhood

Alright so we have to make the decision literally tonight then

[Xtoxm]

if i were town loyal neighborizer, i would probably actually neighborize you.

why do you think it would make us both suspicious?

Well, I'd be at the top of the chain there. Youd be calling me conftown, and so if people suspect me then they automatically suspect you, and would have to kill you first.

[Xtoxm]

I'll think about this. The group hood thing changes a lot. I dont hate the gambit tying yourself to me, since i prefer doing something rather nothing , but it is high risk. Skitter has to solo endgame if it goes wrong.

[Xtoxm]

Rather than*

[Xtoxm]

ah sorry for not being here. Oka Poka said that we should kill him because if we couldn't lynch him yesterday we wouldn't be able to lynch him the future, but i don't think i agree with that.

we werent't trying to lynch him yesterday tho, that's the thing

i think his cred will be sufficiently reduced and that he might (?) be lynchable anyways

i'm more scared that he'll do a total reset and hard tunnel one of us

my best guess is that he will not necessarily have the cred to bully people into what he wants, esp. after how yesterday went down and i oppose him

but i'm scared of being very wrong

Idk. People have a habit of tr him for no reason, and we know blacklists failed this game so a lot of people that dont like what he does to games aren't here. I think it's possible thanks to the worst but itll still be hard.

I'm also worried if hes really a detective, and scans me, then he'll just have to be killed the next night anyway.

[Xtoxm]

Hes definitely an agent of chaos and that part of things is helping us.

I just dont have a good pr lead elsewhere.

[Xtoxm]

Keeping him gives me a great excuse to keep being a shit due my history with rc but I dont know how far that's really gonna get me

[Xtoxm]

Shitfish*

[Xtoxm]

Alright you both like to keep him, and the only person on our teams who read the game does also so let's do it. Full chaos mode. Who to kill instead?

[Xtoxm]

I have a vanilla read on math for reasons I cant articulate and could be completely wrong

[Xtoxm]

I have a vanilla read on math for reasons I cant articulate and could be completely wrong

Actually I can, he has many times spoken of what's he plans to do "tomorrow" or other later days. Dying at night seems to not be in his thoughts, and when I'm a pr it always is.

[Xtoxm]

I could see rce being pr.

Hes one of the people that indicated he would vote rc if tw flips town. But I guess we cant have everything.

[Xtoxm]

Haha. Oddly enough I have no nerves in this game. I guess its cus I was expecting rc to force my lynch d1 and I've already exceeded expectations.

[Xtoxm]

Who do you think rc would be most likely to scan (of us) if he real claimed? Tris it multitask so we can have her do it if preferred.

[Xtoxm]

Who do you think rc would be most likely to scan (of us) if he real claimed? Tris it multitask so we can have her do it if preferred.

i can't gauge between you/tris because i don't know where he's re-evaluating

i'm p sure i'm least likely
and most likely to talk my way out of it if he does get a guilty

Let me rephrase. Who should perform the kill? Based on this answer, you think you should do it?

[Xtoxm]

i think that's very egotistical but i'm worried that's influencing my decision making a bit

Hey, calm down.
It's not that big of decision - realistically we could roll a dice for this and the expected outcome wouldn't be too much different.
If we lose, no big deal. We're doing better than 2 other scumteams at least rn.

[Xtoxm]

we do run into slight trouble if she's asked to prove her role tom and there's nobody to back her up ...

i don't *think* she gets run up tomorrow in that gamestate we're cultivating but idk i can't promsie that

This is why I really like the loyal/disloyal thing. Huge ~one more day~ appeal.

[Xtoxm]

Even night sounds fine. Novice is too powerful I think. Loyal neigh is a strong role.

[Xtoxm]

Mechanics is kinda my thing :p

[Xtoxm]

What's the logic behind having this neighborize rce instead of holstering?

[Xtoxm]

ah, the typical normal game scum experience - we dont even get to kill anyone

[Xtoxm]

what do you think of me doing the 2-shot/x-shot jk claim on some rando (maybe plum?) to throw some confusion/maybe rolefish
not a likely nk so i could push it as a soft guilty

[Xtoxm]

could be.

it seems like everyone who posted is tr rc which i basically expected. except rce but even he sounds sarcastic.
idk what you should do. what would town!you do?

[Xtoxm]

what do u think of the math jk'ed me theory ?

i mean im probably expecting *someone* to be a jk/alien, but multi jk setups have been a thing.

[Xtoxm]

well if you were jailed, thats a great excuse

[Xtoxm]

math does sound like hes goading you and working up to something
could be poking to see if you know you were blocked
or just outright preparing to claim a result
idk

[Xtoxm]

Having bad reads is also an option for you. Once we start get prs claiming it wont be sus for you to not die anyway. N1 is like the worst for that

[Xtoxm]

dw im sure you can recover it

im more worried about the setup
detective+jk(~)
and we have no actual power
idk how we overcome this

[Xtoxm]

welcome to my world

[Xtoxm]

is there something specifically causing the demotivation?
(for its rc)

[Xtoxm]

for me*

[Xtoxm]

welcome to party btw saud

[Xtoxm]

hm
i dont think about it in terms of length/end point

[Xtoxm]

do you think you'd be scumread if you eased off a bit?
generally people arent as aware of your own scum range as you are
i can be out of my scum range and be suspected, or within it and be townread. very often.

[Xtoxm]

i was scum for 4 months in last night tomorrow, so ive been there ;p
being scum in multiple games at the same time does get me down tho
fortunately this is the only game im in rn

[Xtoxm]

i like how math is screaming that ari is scum bc hes so hard to kill, when actually its just cus scum arent pushing him at all

[Xtoxm]

i favour trying to rolefish
always
rc's new push on rce is interesting
we already fished ari
plus if he did manage to get lynched by all town i think that'd be hilarious

[Xtoxm]

we were planing a 1-shot/even night loyal neighborizer claim

[Xtoxm]

This Skitter wagon is nuts though, I would lynch any other player before Skitter. Every one of you.

i am wondering if rce is the jk and thinks he saved you last night

[Xtoxm]

rc still would be a good lynch since hes a pr and its gonna be a headache to work around
hopefully can get a solid rolefish off this shos wagon
see you in a bit

[Xtoxm]

yes yes, i'll deffo get on if ico does.
i do still think rce is jk tbh but lets think abt it at night
and he wouldnt want to out himself
2 protectives is entirely possible imo
*someone* fucked with you abd it has nothing to do with math

i am fine tiwht the math/ico thing tho it gives u a reason to not be dying

[Xtoxm]

hmm thats a good catch on flopz by rc
however

I saw talk of Ico claiming so I looked through the recent posting of their ISO to serve as a sort-of catch-up to the thread. I really liked a lot of the posts I saw there, especially 4891 (

the claim was good too

). So will put my vote on Shos. VOTE: Shos

(I haven't looked through the RC stuff yet in regards to whatever he's done this time)

im not sure flopz makes this post as a jk?
prob still thinking rce

[Xtoxm]

yeah i do think its most likely him

[Xtoxm]

as a frequent mod, town jks early game are typically targeting someone they townread already, and pretty much always assume that they saved them from the kill if theres no kill

[Xtoxm]

ico is the obvious jk for a jk here
ico could be on rce
we probably lost mechanically anyway

[Xtoxm]

tbh will all the talk about rce now being scummy, maybe ico wont go rce
its probably the play ig

Xtoxm kill rce

[Xtoxm]

do you know if you being jailed means you still appear inno to a detective?

[Xtoxm]

i mean it sounds like the setup we have relies on scum making kills, so we could just make the game vanilla nightless if you dont wanna risk rce
relies on the claims so far being real, of course
the 'innos' would eventually remove themselves on math/ico that way

[Xtoxm]

well, its going to come out at some point right?
either from the jks mouth, or from deduction when it turns up dead

[Xtoxm]

since your guilty to a det now, need to ask if its still worth keeping rc...theres a good chance he checks u i think?
altho im still no believing theres both a det and a doc. thats some follow the cop shit.

[Xtoxm]

scum would know that they didnt kill math, thereforce whatever stopped the kill is elsewhere.
rce talked about suspicion of ico, and has made it fairly obvious he targeted u (if hes the jk)
i agree it looks bad, but its going to look bad when it comes out anyway.
your argument needs to be that you were the n1 kill.

[Xtoxm]

its how normal games are unfortunately
this was the only game i didnt wanna play
but my team were like
we need the game that town are more likely to win for EV reasons

[Xtoxm]

i think ico is fairly likely to be jailed tbh, so in that sense rc might be a safe shot

[Xtoxm]

i would still be unsurprised if rc isnt det btw
jk+doc+det seems kinda borked even by the townsided standards of the nrg

[Xtoxm]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10680941

Well i just found this gem ^

yeah guess i should have no expectations lol.

[Xtoxm]

i think ico is fairly likely to be jailed tbh, so in that sense rc might be a safe shot

I'm wondering if we should just take this gamble ?

I think ico is p likely to be on him if he can tonight
The question is if rce would be on ico, and i'm not super confident he would be ...

if this is what you wanna do, im fine with it

[Xtoxm]

way i see it, fhpov ico is either a real doc and therefore likely to die, or scum creating a bullshit gamble. both would be a good jk shot. im pretty sure thats where id be as a jk.
but yeah its basically a crapshoot cus idk how rce thinks

[Xtoxm]

gamble=gambit

[Xtoxm]

i dont have a strong pref
you wanna risk the shot on rc thats fine
i do think theres a chance he checks you tonight in which case he would have to be the kill attempt

[Xtoxm]

tbh yes
he may want to see if rc correctly claims no result

[Xtoxm]

in general jk is the highest priority kill
leave it around and chances are high kills are not going to happen, either bc they get blocked or youre forced to start wifoming the jk
but it it still possible to win that way, whereas its not if you literally get guiltied
i dont think ico is the right choice at all (mechanically).

p-ed
agree its a wash

[Xtoxm]

yeah if rc dies and flips det, you still have a shot at endgaming. itll be long and grueling but theres a chance so i think lets try it and see.

[Xtoxm]

if rce stays hidden then just keep taking shots at him
if he claims then no killing vs doc/jk combo is the most effective strategy

[Xtoxm]

nah i think this is the right call actually, chances are good rc will check u
plus all this talk reminded me of a game i won by no killing pretty much every night vs a doc+rb

[Xtoxm]

tomorrow highly unlikely i feel

[Xtoxm]

we'd be counting on some kinda limited shot thing to take rc the next night
i mean, its my fault for letting you do the n1 kill
i knew it was a bad idea putting you at risk

[Xtoxm]

Meh you ok with gambling and watching the world burn if we fail ?

yep lol

[Xtoxm]

watch him flip vt
just watch

[Xtoxm]

heh.

[Xtoxm]

Should i claim neighborized or nah

high risk high reward i guess
you will need to explain why you didnt out it yesterday
otoh, it gives you sort of a reason for being initially reluctant to wagon the slot

[Xtoxm]

also yeah bellas claim means we're in a way better spot than we though
rce likely eats a lynch at some point for being jk'd on the no kill night
the inno on math is gone
i can see a path for you to endgame

like...flopz/teacher/shos/you 4p mylo mebe?

i think there is a 4th tpr somewhere tho probs
keep an eye out
bella dies tonight
ico can go whenever, simple doc isnt a threat at all tbh

[Xtoxm]

o and im thinking just bus me today
ig if theres any way to get shos today thats better but i doubt it happens

[Xtoxm]

Should i claim neighborized or nah

high risk high reward i guess
you will need to explain why you didnt out it yesterday
otoh, it gives you sort of a reason for being initially reluctant to wagon the slot

im thinking it may be worth but idk like so risky :s

[Xtoxm]

almost certainly
i think im the preferred lynch of everyone except math ?

[Xtoxm]

hey, i believe in you!

sorry i couldnt be a stronger scumbuddy, being put in the game with rc is tough for me personally
done my best to help from this side of the game

[Xtoxm]

If you dont wanna claim neighborized I guess I could cus why not at that point ?

[Xtoxm]

Well I'm already the designated lynch so by definition I think it cant hurt

[Xtoxm]

would you rather i self hammer here or try and fight?

[Xtoxm]

yeah i double checked and its 4
he tried to bait me LUL

[Xtoxm]

if i do get to L-1 tho
would u like the speed day?
idm either way

[Xtoxm]

aight
i can flail :3

[Xtoxm]

no no, im not wanting to self hammer, i was just offering in case that you felt having a speed day was beneficial to you.

[Xtoxm]

yeah
you probs need to be claiming vt, so that you have a reason for being in mylo
but hopefully you be one of the last, to have the full picture

[Xtoxm]

no

[Xtoxm]

you could unvote for the massclaim and come back later

[Xtoxm]

Math last minute jump on me looks so much like a bus lol

[Xtoxm]

Math getting lynched would be ideal. Let's you use the extra nk on teacher, who I dont really want around in mylo.

[Xtoxm]

hm, its an odd thing to say next to the claim. mebe. we need him a ml anyway probs tho?
the setup actually doesnt look townsided at all and i was expecting another pr
other concerns:
bella underclaiming nights to avoid nk possibly? (this is why i 100% want to kill her tonight)
ico: not actually simple? although, i kinda gut just believe him and think we're safe to shoot bella first

i think kill order is bella > ico > teacher

[Xtoxm]

looks like the hood claimed helped me after all :p
im gonna rofl if they give me another day
ideal lynch shos prob since people think theres a dichotomy between me/him

[Xtoxm]

btw i see you shading flopz a lot
im thinking he works better as the mylo jury rather than the mislynch target?
mylo could be you/ari/flopz/+1 which i think you actually have a good shot in

[Xtoxm]

looks like the hood claimed helped me after all :p
im gonna rofl if they give me another day
ideal lynch shos prob since people think theres a dichotomy between me/him

i think if shos gets lynched today you're tom
whereas if we stay out of the pair we perpetuate the conflict

im not too bothered which day i get lynched rly
you are the endgame
theres a chance tho that everyone just townreads shos all game after i flip so i'd quite like him to go
i think in mylo people start getting sus again but still

[Xtoxm]

I'm trying to make up my mind about xtoxm.

He claims to be NB'd, but as scum he could easily just claim the opposite and nothing happens. Him claiming it and saying there's nothing there puts him in a worse spot as scum then just claiming not NB'd.

My mind tells me he's more likely town then scum by his claim.

huehuehue
confuse them into townreading me

[Xtoxm]

thing about shos is i think hito playing by proxy will become really annoying, esp after hito's game ends.
shos seems to have a strong, supportive team around him.
not sure having him in lylo is a great idea

[Xtoxm]

Also i marvel that i can get townread this hard, as both alignments, even as people are super paranoid of my scumgame

tends to be the way
people ignore someones ability to play scum and just tr people who have a good tone

[Xtoxm]

ico seems to be onto you
he hasnt really been pushing his sr's tho he just voteparks so hopefully wont be an issue

[Xtoxm]

im pretty committed to killing bella incase she has another shot.

[Xtoxm]

yeah if youre not enjoying playing then you should take a break

[Xtoxm]

there is a lot of time on deadline so i dont feel like day end is imminent tbh

[Xtoxm]

teacher proposing shos>rce chainlynches
i would love for that to be a thing lol
its gonna be rce tho

[Xtoxm]

yeah, im thinking its the right time to drop vote.
i feel a little weird to totally ignore teachers big post on math so im kinda stewing over it/maybe thinking of something to comment on that with first

[Xtoxm]

bella is hard shitfishing rn.
shes done literally nothing today.
when i do that as i town its bc i REALLY dont wanna be the nk.

we think the setup looks a little underpowered for town
do you doubt that bella is capable of underclaiming nights?
if she's really n1-2 then i think she'd claim like this
but i also can see her claiming n1-2 when shes actually n1-3 or even every night, or 3-shot or etc.
i dont wanna risk.
a failed kill cripples us

[Xtoxm]

honestly if the setup is
every night alien
every night simple doc
3-shot joat

if fight that a lot more believable than the n1-2 shit.

[Xtoxm]

i find that*

[Xtoxm]

everyone is expecting scum!rce so dynamics will change
i do feel quite strongly that bella needs to die since the risk is too high if she has more shots
if we go for ico and she aliens him then its catastrophic for us

i dont think math is the de facto lynch 2mo
maybe if you/teach rly push it
you said a similar thing abt an rc lynch

[Xtoxm]

i will run it by my team and see what they say

[Xtoxm]

Ico is just going to be a pain because he's kinda scumreading me and is also townreading the easist mislynches

yeah. i do consider night play the most important part.
my approach is: identify mechanical threats and remove them in the optimal order
dayplay is about getting over the line.
i think the rce town flip will actually help you quite a bit too.
you being off of a mislynch is good, and shos will have 2 mislynches and 0 wolf pelts to his name.

[Xtoxm]

hm, just realising getting this hammered could be hard work
teach - hard opposed
ari - hard opposed
bella - no stance taken
every other town that isnt rce is on already

[Xtoxm]

i'd rather an evens mylo than odds lylo, esp with only 1 scum alive
mislynch odds are WAY better

[Xtoxm]

and that we're able to get there without doing a no-kill to give away that it planned, thats ideal

[Xtoxm]

i think math will turn on me 2mo btw
after rce flips town he will think that was the nb target and im lying abt hood

[Xtoxm]

it has already been mentioned
teacher still townreads me in spite of it, with his tr on rce
itll be interesting to see how the others react
shos will vote me for sure

[Xtoxm]

3) Incorrect. Xtom as scum says not neighborized here unless they tried to neighborize RCE and failed. With Saud being multitasking the action was very likely used making Xtom very likely town.

[Xtoxm]

also im lowkey sad that no one went to check the timing of tris's rep out
she never posted in the game on d2 and thats why i said she didnt post in the hood
dont really wanna bring it up myself since then it looks planned

[Xtoxm]

pine said he agrees with you that dayplay is more important than nightplay
but he also thinks full alien is more likely than whats claimed
which sounds kinda contradictory

[Xtoxm]

i dont think he's read much of the game, no

[Xtoxm]

yeh idk why, who do they think is hammering

[Xtoxm]

O thanks ari lol

[Xtoxm]

looks like the hood claimed helped me after all :p
im gonna rofl if they give me another day
ideal lynch shos prob since people think theres a dichotomy between me/him

Commence rofling.
Now project get me to d5??

[Xtoxm]

hopefully
need to be a bit careful about mylo since a flopz+math combo could lead to your lynch
if at all possible, math lynch probably is best

[Xtoxm]

unfortunately she is totally MIA, hasnt posted since dying in her game

[Xtoxm]

i have enough confidence that full alien amkes more sense than n1-2 to make an executive decision here though, and though pine waffled about dayplay being more important he agreed on that point.
even if she does flip n1-2 the risk just doesnt justify the reward
i dont think teacher ever lets you be lynched 2mo

skitter kill bella