TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[Ankamius]

fun

[Ankamius]

fun

Ank are you town
Because I have something to tell you if you're town

hi I'm town

what's up bb

[Ankamius]

you're just jealous that I'm more gay than you

[Ankamius]

nice memes

[Ankamius]

VOTE: kuribo

[Ankamius]

^ scared

[Ankamius]

Okay.

Moving onto more important topics.

Do we have any single ladies in the house tonight?

yes

chenn

[Ankamius]

Ok rc

[Ankamius]

I can't remember the last time I've seen you try hard gif

[Ankamius]

You never know what you're going to get when mafia is involved

[Ankamius]

You caught so much shit for that and it was hilarious

[Ankamius]

I think he's sealing his mouth shut now though

[Ankamius]

am I being pocketed

I got my eye on you

[Ankamius]

Why does that have to be the case?

[Ankamius]

Hold, you aren't an alt are you?

I thought you were but now I'm not as sure

[Ankamius]

Ok

Honestly I'm mostly fucking around atm, I don't actually believe that

[Ankamius]

That's odd I was expecting to see this morning my complete psychological profile alongside a read made by Ank but that didn't happen.

Well here goes my morning lecture I guess VOTE: Ank

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

That's actually really hilarious since I almost did post stuff about you today

[Ankamius]

Yes ma'am

[Ankamius]

Dang :(

That is heartbreaking

[Ankamius]

Who?

[Ankamius]

Idk if any specific lady has caught my eye yet but I appreciate the advice!

[Ankamius]

This game is getting spicy

[Ankamius]

This game is getting spicy

Indeed. Can you list me some of your best past games?

Bonus points if there's a healthy sprinkling of town and scum games in your list.

Fire on the mountain
Cat art
Madness of port Arthur
One other I forget

I'll get links later

[Ankamius]

Fotm is a scum game
Rest are town

[Ankamius]

I'm blake in port arthur

[Ankamius]

Tell bitmap to fuck himself

[Ankamius]

Ftr that is an inside joke, its not super serious

[Ankamius]

But it is serious

[Ankamius]

Oh wait there's a game going on

What did I miss

[Ankamius]

I'm reasonably confident that the only possible scum on my wagon is espresso

[Ankamius]

No

[Ankamius]

I independently do think it was bad though

[Ankamius]

he noted the backtrack and didn't think about what happened in between the two points

[Ankamius]

I don't think there's necessarily scum on my wagon

I think every other slot is town

[Ankamius]

I don't scumread dave

[Ankamius]

FL you're a butt

[Ankamius]

you're a wet butt

[Ankamius]

you're welcome

[Ankamius]

15 new pages

you shouldn't have~

[Ankamius]

and it looks like it's mostly FL and Volpe arguing based on activity overview

you'll forgive me for skipping it, right? :')

[Ankamius]

if it helps, the few pages I read looks like town FL

[Ankamius]

my townblock is getting bigger and I'm happy about that

[Ankamius]

honey I have bad news for you

[Ankamius]

why would you say that as town?

[Ankamius]

ngl volpe

I think I have a better grasp of nom's game than you do

FL is a lot more likely to be caught indirectly later so I'm not going to think too hard on his alignment now

I don't know why you would specifically say that you aren't going to listen to me instead of immediately just hard disagreeing or really anything but that?

[Ankamius]

ftr

my nomnomnom townread is a personality read
my fl townread is a tone/trajectory read

both are slightly more complicated than that but those are the tl;dr versions

[Ankamius]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

[Ankamius]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

Farkran is hard town for us.

good to see I'm not alone!

[Ankamius]

I wish I knew enough about how MariaR thinks ingame to be able to add her to my townblock

starry night helped but not tot he point that I think I'd be able to pick the two alignments out zzzzzzzzzzz

[Ankamius]

Oh yeah Ank RC wants me to ask you how many times you've correctly scumread FL.

idk if I've ever even seen it other than that one normal

and I think I flipflopped that one

[Ankamius]

at least ingame

I've seen it from the mod perspective multiple times

[Ankamius]

I think the better question is who can correctly read me when I’m town

oh hey this is my world too!

[Ankamius]

Do I need to highlight that Ank popped in defended FL/Nomnom and vanished?

hi I was in a dungeon in an mmo

do I have more I need to talk about or?

[Ankamius]

I don't know ank, do you...?

You kind of popped in to catch up but started to talk as if you already knew what was going on in the game and just gave reads in 10 minutes so...?

Like, I think it bugs me more the fact you started talking as if you was inside of what was going on in the game rather than just stopping talking. Like, as if the sole purpose of you coming here was to relieve pressure?

sure let's go with that

[Ankamius]

It's literally around 10 minutes from your first post to when you begin to write about FL/Nomnom town so how much catch up can you do in 10 minutes while also writing some posts?

It doesn't seem like a lot so where are those magical reads coming from is a good question.

I read up to page like 17 before I posted the first time

I haven't read jack shit between 17 and 27 or whenever since

[Ankamius]

who

[Ankamius]

It's literally around 10 minutes from your first post to when you begin to write about FL/Nomnom town so how much catch up can you do in 10 minutes while also writing some posts?

It doesn't seem like a lot so where are those magical reads coming from is a good question.

I read up to page like 17 before I posted the first time

Your last post before showing up now was in page 10, your first post here begins with a "~ 15 new pages, you shouldn't have" at exactly page 25 which strikes me as if you're still in page 10 (10 + 15 = 25 or something) so like...sweetie I'm sorry if I'm wrong but this really doesn't sound believable.

you're welcome to believe what you like

I'm not going to be able to convince you otherwise

[Ankamius]

it gives me the warm fuzzies to be scumread in a large theme

[Ankamius]

That’s how I feel about you/GIF.

This isn’t necessarily true, I’m just throwing shade.

what is this even responding to though

[Ankamius]

honestly

it seems kinda likely to me

[Ankamius]

you're not going to try to lynch me?

I'm disappointed

[Ankamius]

Me too

[Ankamius]

Deas

what do you think the most important part of the game so far to read through is?

[Ankamius]

I'm looking for like a rough page or so

[Ankamius]

This game is getting spicy

Indeed. Can you list me some of your best past games?

Bonus points if there's a healthy sprinkling of town and scum games in your list.

Fire on the mountain
Cat art
Madness of port Arthur
One other I forget

I'll get links later

Fire on the Mountain (scum)
Cat Art (town)
Madness of Port Arthur (town)
Tatsuya Kaname's Anime Upick (town)

[Ankamius]

nom you of all people should know why this wagon is dumb.

Volpe I'm not sure what you were thinking but you probably didn't make the smartest set of moves here concerning the defense you chose.

I'm not being smart either, I'm town, I'm just really sure that FL should die here, right now.

Well since you're acting dumb I'll just make sure everyone knows what I'm talking about.

Me and Volpe are sharing a PT together, with a third person. In that thread he suggested the idea that he intentionally shook up his meta in order to beat "meta players" present in the event. So your whole defense about "how I should recognize your scumgame" is completely bullshit.

Secondly, in that thread, you actually do display emotional manipulation. To summarize the whole thing Volpe plays the "I don't want to play this game anymore" card in the thread after the discussion that ensued there, which I will not talk about. You did this very same thing in C9++, shall I note, although again I want to trust the words you said back then about that thing not being alignment indicative, but this is what you stated as defense.

It's probably not smart to use a defense that can be disproven by your own words. You talk a bit too much.

"HI GIF IS TOTALLY NOT THE MYSTERIOUS THIRD PERSON IN THE HOOD"

I don't understand this

[Ankamius]

ngl

just seeing the level of garbage that was posted in that timeframe and even before that just makes me think people are getting their panties in a bunch for no real reason

[Ankamius]

That's what mafia is all about though

you.

I like you.

[Ankamius]

and I'm not convinced people haven't been scumreading farkran because of playstyle

Do you mean A. more people should have scumread me for playstyle, or B. you believe scum are refraining from scumreading me and justifying their TMI with my playstyle?

These are not mutually exclusive options, but option B implies everyone who's not scumreading me has higher scum equity whereas A does not.

it means I think the scumreads on you are playstyle differences rather than anything substantive

[Ankamius]

do you want me to go into why I'm townreading you?

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

Hi everyone, i'm the king of readlists

I don't think gif is powerscumming already so he may be town for now

Early A50 posts are scum standard, don't like them at all

Don't like chennisden introduction

Don't like maria introduction but less so than chen's

Like volxen

I think i like anka reactions

Kuribo is gut town

My neighborhood looks town so far

Everyone else null

VOTE: a50

am I being pocketed

I got my eye on you

am I being pocketed

I got my eye on you

Why am i pocketing you specifically? I mean as opposed to pocketing my every townread

Why does that have to be the case?

Why does that have to be the case?

That's my question to you. You went out of your way to say i am pocketing you, but made no mention of my other townreads.

I think town would have either said nothing or ask me why i am townreading them and the other guys rather than instantly fossing me for pocketing.

Why? Do you agree with my other reads so much that you don't need to question them?

Hold, you aren't an alt are you?

I thought you were but now I'm not as sure

This is my main

Ok

Honestly I'm mostly fucking around atm, I don't actually believe that

Ok

Honestly I'm mostly fucking around atm, I don't actually believe that

VOTE: ankamius

Reconsidering my previous read after this very weak exchange

@a50 what do you think of anka rn?

83: Me trolling
85: Me realizing that you're taking my troll post seriously, so I turn it into a reaction test; mainly getting into your head to see what angle you're approaching this from
87: Me noticing that your response was more general than I would have expected from somebody familiar with me, so I'm making sure that it isn't the case because this is much more scum-indicative if you are familiar with me and nullish if it isn't
89: Me furthering the reaction test, seeing how consistent you would be in following through and what level of conviction you would show in it

ultimately my conclusion was that it was genuine and you were specifically trying to sort me in that exchange, so my read came up town.

notably nomnomnom's followup rang town to me too albeit for different reasons

[Ankamius]

I thought there would be more really spicy responses from that but nobody really had anything notable from that

I first thought that it was slightly scum-indicative for GIF to ignore it but later I decided it wasn't

[Ankamius]

once he [FLAVOR LEAF] realized he was on the losing side he backed out.

speaking of which, where exactly in the thread is this?

[Ankamius]

Ankamius - cancel food

Dr Easy Bake - The Maurauders

Flavor Leaf - Wild Cards

davesaz - Busboy Revolution

chennisden - Quick Attack

Vex Vience - Doomsday
Volxen - Derp Wolves

MariaR - Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn

Gammagooey - Old Hat
DeasVail - The Lit Torches
kuribo - The Four Horsement

GuyInFreezer - Bird That Carries You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Elements - Team "Team" Team

Volpe14 - Tea Gathering Club

EspressoPatronum - Newb Kids on the Block

Almost50 - You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Farkran - DFKN

nomnomnom - SubOptimal Math

[Ankamius]

the shading isn't showing up so it looks a lot dumber than it should

oh well I'll deal with it later

[Ankamius]

Post 596 and following. I don't believe that is a pure reconsideration without turning to someone else. I read Flavor Leaf as someone who takes hard stances and does not back off a stance without assuming a different one - voting nom, or me, would have been consistent with his progression thus far but he didn't. He just backed off and turned to AtE. I'm waiting for him to come up with more content when he has slept on it or something, but atm i think he's my highest scumread.

unless he's specifically pocketing me, I don't think scum!FL ever does that

[Ankamius]

technically I'm making an assumption by calling it town considering he tends to get into tunnel wars as town too, but I know offhand of one huge TvT fight he had last year so it's believable that he's recognizing the possibility and trying to dismantle it ahead of time

I feel like it's just more likely he's town since it's easier to ride the chaos that swept in at the same time to completely dismantle the wagon rather than just say "OK I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT, PLEASE WAGON ME"

idk

[Ankamius]

mariar feels like she did in starry night, basically

it's a very weak reason so it was meant to be slightly green

[Ankamius]

I feel like it's just more likely he's town since it's easier to ride the chaos that swept in at the same time to completely dismantle the wagon rather than just say "OK I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHT, PLEASE WAGON ME"

Actually FL was like "We're going to kill you, you know?" when I first started to wagon him and only later he started to back down on it so I'm not sure this match reality as nicely as it sounds.

I've seen him do that as town and I find it hard to believe he'd switch like that out of nowhere without a good reason as scum

[Ankamius]

Why, is it the playerlist that gave you the conclusion that something would happen?

[Ankamius]

It got buried in the volpe fl shit and I'm ngl, it looks impossible to get anything concrete out of it without seeing the pt directly

[Ankamius]

am I reading the same game as you all?

[Ankamius]

I don't see it at all so I'm going to bug my team about it too!

[Ankamius]

I think that your hood is all town and if there isn't, then it's gif

[Ankamius]

and if there's scum in it, then it's gif*

[Ankamius]

there you go then!

[Ankamius]

I think this entire endeavor is a waste of time and if there's scum influence in this, they're trying to reduce the numbers in that neighborhood to manipulate whatever your neighborhood power is

and honestly I think that's a waste of time and effort to resolve right now by day when there's so many other players in the game

[Ankamius]

that's part of manipulating whatever your neighborhood power is

[Ankamius]

still town!

[Ankamius]

now I'm definitely convinced that the lot of us are reading entirely different games

[Ankamius]

@nom, you can chalk the lack of response to exhaustion at least on my part. Most of the thread wasn't even awake at the time.

I had to read the whole hood reveal thing in iso to get a handle on it. Some of the events were far enough apart in the thread that it wasn't apparent they were even related until after the fact. I was catching up for part of it and it was even less apparent on skim than it was on normal speed.

I don't see why it was urgent for nom to have that discussion in this thread. I don't think we were going to have an overnight quick lynch even if the 1v1 didn't dissipate. Stuff from the hood could have been discussed in the hood.

Gif's reaction to the discrepancy being pointed out seems out of proportion to the info that had been revealed up to that point. He could connect the hood discussion to it, but nobody else could without further information. And forgetting to unvote is such an easy explanation for the apparent discrepancy. Why get so riled up over such a tenuous connection?

because this is a lot closer to how I'm seeing the game than half the shit I've been seeing in here

[Ankamius]

so how big is the townblock now?

have we hit half the plist yet?

[Ankamius]

I haven't paid any attention to him

lemme iso

[Ankamius]

seems ok I guess

I might have specced a game or two of his once but idr ever playing with him soooooooo

[Ankamius]

makes me wonder since I'm in the list of his that hints he has some idea of how I play

[Ankamius]

seems ok I guess

"ok" as in you are reading that as town, or you have nothing relevant to highlight in his ISO? Doesn't look like he's part of your green block, that's why i wanted to talk more about him

nothing especially noteworthy mainly because idk how to approach sorting him really

[Ankamius]

I wonder what the basement is on how little sleep you can get before you die

There's a rare condition out there where your immune system destroys the mechanism that allows you to sleep

Iirc it takes like 6-12 months to go entirely insane

[Ankamius]

What do you want to talk about exactly maria

[Ankamius]

btw duckling is MY teammate, not nomnomnom's

nobody gets to share him

[Ankamius]

probably town but I'm open to being convinced

[Ankamius]

Deas maybe you can convince me on nom being town

[Ankamius]

True

Maybe on nom being scum though

[Ankamius]

I'll relook at noms iso when I have a moment

[Ankamius]

I'm not seeing Ank do anything useful

???

[Ankamius]

I've a hard time believing that read list is something she really believes in

????????

[Ankamius]

K

I need to be sitting down somewhere to address this

[Ankamius]

I'll answer gammagooey after

[Ankamius]

Fundamentally, Volpe, you either have a significant misunderstanding on how I play the game or your approach is so off for a game like this that you are getting completely thrown off track trying to get anywhere this game. Or, I guess most likely, you being part of the main two issues throughout the game is coloring your view of the game.

First of all, I am wildly inconsistent from game to game because I need a proper jumping off point to really engage into a game properly. These two clusterfucks after my initial entrance was a fucking

Flavor Leaf

1v1, which is one of the least productive engagements to try to sift through, and whatever the hell your neighborhood shit is. I'm not particularly interested in "he said, she said" arguments featuring a neighborhood I'm not a part in, because from where I'm concerned, resolving that 'incident' has little value in actually helping push forward the game.

That's essentially the game up to this point. The game hasn't progressed to the point where I can just ignore that stage of the game because so much of it is entangled in this one incident that I'd rather just try to get individual reads on the outskirt players than to try to wrap my mind around a low value source of reads.

Reads? Idk where you even got the impression that I don't actually believe my reads. To my knowledge, I've been forthcoming with most of my reads up to this point even without prodding and when I've felt the need to explain them, I've explained them. Why don't I have any scumreads? Fucked if I know, this is one of those games where I struggle to get scumreads. This can mean scum are mostly in the people that aren't doing anything or that they're hiding in the chaos. I wouldn't know, half the game is virtually unreadable and I'm relying on people's second hand accounts to try to get my own because....... otherwise why should I even be posting? I don't throw my weight around unless I'm confident in my conclusions or have something specific I'm looking for. I play precisely when I'm not hyper engaged into a game because I'm looking for a jumping off point. Really, in those situations its almost always better to just let me find it. Virtually nobody on the site can recognize when I'm disengaged town, so it's just dumb to go as far as to want to fucking

VIG

me this early in the game.

And since this is relevant, I specifically chose the large theme because I'm the best able to handle the work load of keeping up and posting in a large, and generally can function fine by myself without support once I have a foothold in the game. One of my teammates said they would be catching up once they can, but that could still be days out. The other two probably won't be likely to read up enough to have much to say until the game is at a point where I'm probably dead anyways. So if you're expecting me to play with three other players at my back, then you are frankly mistaken.

Last thing I will note is that I'm always caught up in my games if I'm not sleeping or at work. I'm just not always in the mindset to care about what I'm reading while I'm reading.

[Ankamius]

Another?

[Ankamius]

Ankamius - cancel food

Dr Easy Bake - The Maurauders

Flavor Leaf - Wild Cards

davesaz - Busboy Revolution

chennisden - Quick Attack

Vex Vience - Doomsday
Volxen - Derp Wolves

MariaR - Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn

Gammagooey - Old Hat
DeasVail - The Lit Torches
kuribo - The Four Horsement

GuyInFreezer - Bird That Carries You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Elements - Team "Team" Team

Volpe14 - Tea Gathering Club

EspressoPatronum - Newb Kids on the Block

Almost50 - You Over a Disproportionately Small Gap

Farkran - DFKN

nomnomnom - SubOptimal Math

Hey aaanka (I changed the #008000 color to #00D000 for your list so the shadings would show up slightly better), do you have any new scumreads since this? and why do you read flavor and GIF as fairly strong town?

I need to digest my reads for a bit tbh

I'm not entirely sure where they are

[Ankamius]

Last time was Grey flag nightless or something? wow

this thing?

[Ankamius]

Oh

Nom is scum.

Well then.

[Ankamius]

But if that's the case why you think it's odd or anything for me to you out on it?

Because your points don't match reality

[Ankamius]

Like legit

If you don't believe my reads list is genuine, that's a you problem and not a me problem

And me not doing anything useful when I've been mostly interacting with people in the last 20 pages is definitely ??? worthy

[Ankamius]

If you don't believe my reads list is genuine, that's a you problem and not a me problem

Specifically because you're not reading my posts

[Ankamius]

Oh

Nom is scum.

Well then.

Well maybe you can explain this mystery so we can move to other scums if you're not one of them that'd be rad.

I never called you scum up to that post.

[Ankamius]

Here she isn't actually frustated on not getting into the gamestate, She is saying "people don't get how to read me" for being called out.

No.

I'm literally talking to people and trying to get into their heads and you're coming in saying that you want to vig me for not doing anything

This is either you being delusional or a bizarre bop

[Ankamius]

Deas maybe you can convince me on nom being town

True

Maybe on nom being scum though

Call it whatever you want but the fact I went from your TR pool to your nullscum pool is inexplicable and that doesn't sound like the town ank I know.

Or

Half the game is calling you scum and I don't understand why?

[Ankamius]

Honestly

I'm back to nom being town

[Ankamius]

Ank walked away again instead of trying to lead this on anywhere and I don't like it, again.

hi I'm at my desktop now instead of on my phone in a public place

[Ankamius]

.............I literally said I was playing from the sidelines???

[Ankamius]

I feel like I'm being BoPed

[Ankamius]

like hardcore BoPed

[Ankamius]

idk

honestly

I can't actually bring myself to get the fire out right now

[Ankamius]

like hardcore BoPed

You're not being BoP'ed.

It's really more about you being more a caricature of yourself to me than anything like "I expected you to have solved the game already"

this is what happens when I'm not actually confident in what I'm thinking

this is a high enough tier playerlist that if I'm not really understanding half the game and I'm hard disagreeing with a read that a lot of people are having, then my first thought is "what am I missing" rather than "why are they wrong"

[Ankamius]

my townblock is getting bigger and I'm happy about that

I hope it doesn't have either nom or FL there.

honey I have bad news for you

I'm really probably not listening to you in that case Ank

why would you say that as town?

why would you say that as town?

I think you might have bad reads this time around?

I'm doubtful you can say anything to change my mind on either of them.

I've seen nomnom play so meta isn't really helpful here

I don't think you're a FL specialist such that you've a 90% or around that read accuracy on him, therefore I'm not putting your read on him over mine (and like, meta doesn't really help in his case)

I'm really not interested in your slot altogether right now other than considering you could help us out on their wagons

But like, I'm gonna at least read your posts, but I doubt I'll care that much

ngl volpe

I think I have a better grasp of nom's game than you do

FL is a lot more likely to be caught indirectly later so I'm not going to think too hard on his alignment now

I don't know why you would specifically say that you aren't going to listen to me instead of immediately just hard disagreeing or really anything but that?

I don't know why you would specifically say that you aren't going to listen to me instead of immediately just hard disagreeing or really anything but that?

After 15 pages here I'm done and in a sour mood to discuss about it so...

I probably should sleep.

[Ankamius]

I actually completely forgot about that exchange until I saw it again but odds are good that's why I got turned off from talking to you

[Ankamius]

and that was like... immediately after I came back after the thread exploded

[Ankamius]

If you assume the worst scenario you wouldn't "put effort" in protecting the identity of your hood, you would just not out it and hope they aren't scum - or at the very least you wouldn't get angry when it gets outed right after you scumread one of them.

Sorry, no. This does not make any sense, and it's not like i would expect scum!you to consider my case against you any good, you know

You probably should stop the $1 armchair psychology sessions it'll make you look stupid more than once.

Even if I had a red role PM this game that reasoning is honestly atrocious.
You don't know me, you've never played with me, you don't know me as a person, we've never talked and we've never had a discussion about the game. Why do you think you're qualified to judge me psychologically and emotionally? Just stop. It's honestly very stupid.

You are failing to understand that this is nothing about psychological analysis

This is very simple LOGICAL analysis of a scumslip that you made. Emotion, or my lack of knowledge of your psychological profile have literally nothing to do with this, i don't even know why you're basing your defense on that. If you have anything relevant to add, feel free to, otherwise i'm done getting called stupid by scum. Other people are talking and keeping up this argument is pointless.

you can't read nom3 logically

I'm pretty certain that is literally impossible

[Ankamius]

this is what happens when I'm not actually confident in what I'm thinking

this is a high enough tier playerlist that if I'm not really understanding half the game and I'm hard disagreeing with a read that a lot of people are having, then my first thought is "what am I missing" rather than "why are they wrong"

[Ankamius]

2. Fair but I said "I'm at least gonna read your words there", like, I would actually read what you have to say but probably wouldn't change my mind on nomnom in that moment

3. You didn't really debate with my arguments or anyone's in nomnom being scum. You said pretty much "I think nomnom is town, I know her better than you probably". Like, you even ask DV "convince me on nomnom scum" when he had just talked about his reasons to SR nomnom. It felt really like posting for the sake of posting.

plus regarding this

you approached me like it was ridiculous for me to be townreading either of them, and then you said you wouldn't listen to me when I indicated I was

there's not a whole lot of reason for me to try to convince you there, so I just responded in kind and left it at that

[Ankamius]

your avatar fits too well and it scares me

[Ankamius]

you can't read nom3 logically

I'm pretty certain that is literally impossible

I'm not going to base my gamesolve on gutreads of people by validating their scummy mindsets and i'm kinda surprised everyone would.

Like, i don't even get the paranoia about people jumping on nom's wagon. She has 3 votes. Out of 10 required. You (@anka) have been the highest wagon earlier and you became the highest wagon again just moments before my vote against nom. If there is paranoia to be had about someone, it would be in your favor - not that i would get paranoid over a L-6 wagon or even think about going out of my way to call it an easy lynchbait.

Nom just scumslipped about his hood, plain and simple.

nom gets scumread for the most bizarre shit she does like... every game that I've ever seen from her

she's the singlehandedly most chaotic person I've ever met that plays mafia to the point where she's actually not that hard to read if you just don't focus on what she's actually doing

the intensity she's showing about everything and the fact that I can tell there's actual bite behind her words are pretty significant towntells in my experience, she can't really fake either unless her scumgame got significantly better in the last couple months

[Ankamius]

2. Fair but I said "I'm at least gonna read your words there", like, I would actually read what you have to say but probably wouldn't change my mind on nomnom in that moment

3. You didn't really debate with my arguments or anyone's in nomnom being scum. You said pretty much "I think nomnom is town, I know her better than you probably". Like, you even ask DV "convince me on nomnom scum" when he had just talked about his reasons to SR nomnom. It felt really like posting for the sake of posting.

plus regarding this

you approached me like it was ridiculous for me to be townreading either of them, and then you said you wouldn't listen to me when I indicated I was

there's not a whole lot of reason for me to try to convince you there, so I just responded in kind and left it at that

That's really fair Ank, but why not approach other people

arguments

about it? (you didn't follow up in your DV interaction)

(by the way I noticed you asked DV for explanation rather than posting after the explanation)

ok, I responded here:

I'll relook at noms iso when I have a moment

this is 5:30AM my time, which was during my workday.

I left work at 12:00PM and went out to get food, which is where I've been posting most of this. Plus some on the way home, and now here.

I literally haven't had time to.

[Ankamius]

For argument/devil's advocate sake, I want to talk about a world where both Ank/Nomnom is town.

Ank, where would you be looking at?

Guts are fine.

outside perspective? probably the slots that are avoiding it entirely

albeit that's more to get an idea how much of this 'incident' is scum driven more than anything

there's not enough raw info here to make any strong judgments on that

[Ankamius]

I think I need a break from the game for a while

[Ankamius]

I'm not feeling it right now sorry

[Ankamius]

I think I need a break from the game for a while

I'm not feeling it right now sorry

[Ankamius]

[qyeah that just happened

[Ankamius]

[qyeah that just happened

yeah that just happened

[Ankamius]

shrug

VOTE: Elements

[Ankamius]

I'm legit going to sleep now though, no more procrastinating

I probably just need to reset since work kinda sucked shit

[Ankamius]

my neighborhood is better

[Ankamius]

I planned to reevaluate things Tuesday so if you're up for it I'll meet you up for that.

probably would help honestly

I feel like I should be confident on you being town by now and it's not helping that I'm not

[Ankamius]

Oh jeez another 13 pages

[Ankamius]

Ok I'll let something out by the way

If Ank is scum I'm gonna be mad post-game

honey I'vegot bad news for you

[Ankamius]

I think I'm too out of touch with chennis new meta because I remember him being a cute lovable spam posting pichu so I was starting to think this was probably outside of his scum range but...

yeah don't fall into this trap

I did once and burned for it

[Ankamius]

I'm trying to recollect myself about my scumcase against nom, asking myself why nobody noticed it

I could understand people adverse to logic-based reasoning not thinking of it as a solid scumcase, but why did literally nobody catch that whereas my team immediately did? I feel like a player with the profile of maria should have, for instance.

I don't put much stock in raw 'scumslips' in a logical sense

I find pressure slips and the like a lot more reliable and convincing

[Ankamius]

time to reread The Search I guess

Uuuuh wew this game and The Search is a world of difference what am I missing here?

You took a vacation to toon land or what

I think instead of that hard drive you should just highlight that this kind of seems like scum posting etc if you want her lynched to be honest

scum posting?

I swear you guys pull anything out of your ass and call it scum posting lol

I can't tell if it's bad play, bad faith, tunnel or what, but it's starting to get annoying.

starting?

[Ankamius]

You're also fairly reactionary and like, after the ball passed to ank you didn't really push her too much to talk it was mostly me. You mostly just say back.

reactive-aggressive is something I've seen town!nom do before

she actually lynched me once in this mode

[Ankamius]

Meh. Elements, can you... explain to me why you are doing what you are doing?

Talk to me only, ignore everyone else

Wow

This is definitely important but I really don't know what to think of this

Yeah see what I said about coaching

but like, I also think it's probably not it?

and like, I'm not sure it makes sense for scum!Fark to act like that if elems isn't his partner especially when his most likely partner would actually be nomnom and I don't think he would try to redirect things that hard back to nomnom.

this isn't as big a deal as you think it is

farkran's trying to contain him so he can have a proper opportunity to spew himself whatever alignment he is instead of just wildly flailing everywhere and just getting scumread regardless

it's too obvious to be a coach and honestly, there's not really much benefit to even going for it since if it goes badly then it just sinks farkran too

I don't buy that a logic-oriented player would go for this

[Ankamius]

Volpe, what was your

first

not null read on GiF and nom? Not your reads now, but the first thing you thought of that wasn't null.

I explicitly said to GiF that my

town read on him

is solely because of what we talked in the hood.

Nomnom was when

she voted me and began to hysterically one-sided bash me

I'm really not sure why the fuck you're apparently looking at me yet to be fair because like, I think currently there's more interesting slots and I'm being very readable as at the present for you to go after things like this.

These things don't go together then.
I kinda wanted to know what the

read

was, like explicitly stated.

The reason I ask since y'all are just dense as fuck is.
If GIF had a town read on both of you.
Why did he care in the slightest which of you three got an inherently scum sided ability which just can't be used by town in this type of game at all?

what the hell is that post from dave

I feel like I need to open my pokedex or call the ghost busters right now

are you okay?

[Ankamius]

Oooooo



Did someone say dick measuring contest



That's where I'm a Viking



Belly up boys it's murdercock time

lmfao this is the best post in the thread by far

[Ankamius]

Ank is V/LA until 1/7/20 at 6PM EST.

wait

I am???

[Ankamius]

those pages were a waste of time

[Ankamius]

Ankamius
Volpe14/Farkran/nomnomnom
DeasVail/Flavor Leaf/davesaz/Almost50
Gammagooey/MariaR/chennisden/GuyInFreezer
Vex Vience/Volxen/kuribo/Dr Easy Bake
Elements/EspressoPatronum

I'm back with the same problem as before

I mainly need a read on VV in order to really judge how likely I am to just be townreading people willy nilly rather than accurately

kuribo/DEB are a bit harder and Volxen is always going to scumping me regardless I think so I'm going to discount that

[Ankamius]

people really need to chill with the paranoia, there's so much of it running around that it's basically impossible to look past it to things that actually matter and is alignment indicative

I'm formally casting my lot that nom is just town. even then, if she actually

is

scum, then odds are good I'm not going to be around for long anyways so

[Ankamius]

I'm going to do ff14 stuff

don't expect immediate responses

[Ankamius]

Yes and I love it

It's one of my only hobbies that isn't toxic to my personality

[Ankamius]

done with ff14 stuff and nobody had anything to say during the middle of the night

typical americans

[Ankamius]

wherefore doth thou cite thine conclusions?

[Ankamius]

why does him being mislynch bait necessarily mean he's town?

[Ankamius]

why does him being mislynch bait necessarily mean he's town?

To get mislynched, you need to be a mislynch.

Saying it right now, he’s a neighbor of mine, if that wasn’t obvious. When he was SK, I was one of the biggest pushers of him. I’m like completely null if not net positive with him, which I don’t feel is scum him.

Also, he looks like he was going to end up being the day’s lynch, which also never feels like this game ends with a scum lynch here. Scum aren’t going to lose a partner like that, and nobody’s really gaining anything from bussing him either.

the issue is, he's mislynch-bait as town and easy to lynch as scum

I want to know what exactly the difference is between the two that is resulting in a townread because I haven't been seeing it myself

also, it's hard to call him just being the day's lynch partially because there's quite a few players that just haven't been around or haven't properly commented on this and partially because the raw support for it isn't high enough for him to be in danger of being lynched yet; it's entirely reasonable to say that most of the scumteam just haven't commented on it either way at all and there's really not any good way to decide whether any active scum is pushing for or against it yet

[Ankamius]

Actually, i just checked again, his first post was him asking which one of us is evil, then he went to comment on the mason thing. Still

was he trying to do a mason gambit

[Ankamius]

has he said anything else in your neighborhood?

[Ankamius]

Full disclosure, we have an ability that comes into play when there’s only one of us left alive, which is a reason I’m becoming hesitant, especially because I was getting pushed earlier too.

I'd be surprised if this wasn't a thing in every neighborhood, because that's a feature of mine too

[Ankamius]

where do you think scum are at right now FL

I'm not specifically looking for names, just rough approximations of what they're doing or etc.

[Ankamius]

my scumread of him isn't strong

it's more hard to justify going for any other scumreads since I'm townreading the majority of the game

[Ankamius]

mm

[Ankamius]

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

[Ankamius]

oh farkran

I guess it's possible he's scum if I'm just hitting my "can't read logic" stride, but I don't think I'm willing to humor that until I have a reason to

[Ankamius]

chenn maybe?

[Ankamius]

Ankamius

Volpe14/Farkran/nomnomnom

DeasVail/

Flavor Leaf

/davesaz/

Almost50

Gammagooey/MariaR/chennisden/GuyInFreezer
Vex Vience/Volxen/kuribo/Dr Easy Bake
Elements/EspressoPatronum

I'm not budging on these reads right away

I can maybe be convinced on davesaz or deasvail, but I haven't seen any real reason to think I'm wrong on davesaz based on what's been posted so far; deasvail more because I don't actually understand his playstyle like I do the others (and in farkran's case, I think he fits enough of the general mold I have for logic styled players that I'm ok being confident in it for now)

everyone on the line below that I'm open to being wrong on

next one is null line

elements and EP are weak scumreads

[Ankamius]

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

Apparently, Volpe is good scum, I’ve never seen it, though. I can fake paranoia better than I can show real paranoia. I didn’t like the early parts of Flavor vs Volpe and there’s a part of me that thinks his death tunnel was completely fake, but I’ve backed off from that because most people seem to think he’s town, so I’m just kinda slightly lean towning volpe from it for now.

Volpe snowed me completely on baton pass, but I don't see the same Volpe there as I do here

namely the tone is very different this game

[Ankamius]

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

[Ankamius]

That’s my neighborhood.

this wasn't necessary...

[Ankamius]

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

[Ankamius]

Anyway here's my read until the aforementioned re-evaluation. I will only list whether I think they're town or not, "not" being null - scum range. Strength of townread not included on purpose.

Ankamius - T

Dr Easy Bake -

Flavor Leaf -

davesaz - T

chennisden -

Vex Vience - T
Volxen -

MariaR -

Gammagooey - T
DeasVail -
kuribo - Just wanna call this T for absolutely no reason at all tbh.
GuyInFreezer - T
Elements -

Volpe14 - T

EspressoPatronum -

Almost50 - T

Farkran - T

nomnomnom -

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this

GIF is a high value flip I think, although I necessarily believe it is much higher value as a nightkill than a lynch if it's early enough

but this is something that should be gone back to if GIF ever flips scum

[Ankamius]

Why do you town read A50?

I'm not as confident I can read him as before, but I don't think I'm entirely wrong that he can be read based on a combination of what he talks about and how he talks about it

and I'm seeing generally good takes with the impression that he believes what he's saying

that's good enough for me on D1

[Ankamius]

then I sure as fuck hope that people properly put that slot under scrutiny because I'm becoming less and less sure over time that I'll be around to do it myself when it matters

[Ankamius]

I'll be back later

I have work shortly

[Ankamius]

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

Eh... this is one of the scummiest posts in the whole thread so far, and i just realized your 1815 readlist is almost literally a post count list. I don't believe that this analysis comes from town, nor does your progression.

I'm kinda fed up with trying to lead wagons though, i feel i am getting nowhere and i'd like to coordinate something instead. I don't want to get paranoid over my hard townreads so, questions:

1. Is the wagon on elements really relevant? @GIF, @daves
2. Do we still believe nom is scum? @volpe, @daves
3. What do we make of FL and Anka? Are they worth wagoning? @volpe, GIF, daves

I mean the "town is eating town" theory is not appealing. At all. Even moreso in team mafia.

I don't think a single post has ever confused me as much as this one

[Ankamius]

Ank I think one of us is town reading scum and I thyink it's you don't matter how much times I try to reconsider this game (I think it's in the two digits now)

Which reads

[Ankamius]

Ok legit farkran

How exactly are you approaching my posts?

[Ankamius]

I also think that there's been very low-keys attempts to redirect elements wagon here without denying his wagon directly

Do you have any direct examples offhand?

[Ankamius]

You might have a point there tbh

[Ankamius]

???

This is another moment where I feel like people aren't reading my posts

[Ankamius]

My jumping in point was like 5 pages ago maria

[Ankamius]

Gif is the topic atm? Gif is like, annoying. Mostly because he played his hand in the worst way he possibly could. I already went into detail why that is, but I don't think he should be the day 1 lynch regardless.

What did you want to talk about

I kinda want to answer farkran this way because otherwise I'd just be spending hours digging through my own iso and that doesn't seem like a good use of time

[Ankamius]

Yeah it would

I've felt like I've been reading a different game than anyone else so that would probably help me ground myself more

[Ankamius]

Can I rain check that for a couple hours maria?

[Ankamius]

Yeah farkran has never seen me play before so... yeah

[Ankamius]

You mean you also feel like people have been having arguments and you're just staring at it going 'what the fuck how did you even get that opinion?' or is that just me. There's been a lot of talk about certain slots like nom gif etc.

Yup that's been my thing all game, mainly with nom

How do you feel about the less talked slots such as DV/Almost50/Goo/Kuri?

DV is hesitantly town, I think he's strong enough to be able to fake thought processes that makes sense
Almost50 seems town unless his scumrange increased in the last few months
Gamma I'm not confident I can read, I think it will be a lot easier after I have enough confident reads elsewhere
Kuri?

How do you feel about the game right now

Like it's well past time for me to retire

and lastly how are you

Idk, I started on more meds last month and stepping back to more positive hobbies instead of toxic ones has helped my mental state

Work sucks dicks as usual

Etc

pedit: Oh boy am I about to read an Ank case how fun.

Ya they're always fun

[Ankamius]

Oh kuribo

He's funny, I want to keep him

[Ankamius]

I've been working from both scum! and town!anka POV when reading your posts. You are not aggressive nor inquisitive, which is usually a scum trait in my experience, but i have seen town players do that so it's nothing decisive.

I'm only aggressive when I'm confident in my own conclusions and find inherent value in pushing them, I'm not going to be aggressive when I'm not expecting any results from what I'm pushing

I had a lot of issues with deathtunneling years back so I'm more careful about what I push and why

[Ankamius]

inquisitive....

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11488919
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11482860

I ask for things when I have something I need from them or think I can get a read from the engagement

I don't ask for engagements otherwise

[Ankamius]

You don't look like wanting to take a leading position, and that's usually scummy except for the powerwolf profile which i think wouldn't fit you.

same thing

I need to be confident that I'm right and that I'll be able to get things done before I flip the switch and go aggressive

[Ankamius]

A lot of your early posts sound like you try to produce a carefree vibe around your slot, but you are actually concerned about answering stuff, and went out of your way to throw *some* content within your narrative (like that espresso read way back then), or 794, or 808 but it's... weak, as if you felt the need to throw it out without putting any actual weight to it - the only exception being 1255 but even that one is weaker than what i would expect from what in my experience is a town active player. I mean... if you were a lurker, i would be... kinda ok, but you aren't, you say you are putting effort into catching up, you post stuff, but you don't actually say anything. 1268 reinstates the streak of weak posts, and so on.

I was going to respond to this by linking a bunch of my other towngames

but most of my towngames I'm able to get a proper foothold in a lot earlier than this

so

.......shrug

[Ankamius]

that must've been a thing I toned down on at some point

I remember playing like this as town before but it wasn't recently I guess

[Ankamius]

Last but not least, your readlists. Look at 800 and 1815. Two readlists, one thousand posts in-between, 80 of your posts in-between (ISO#73 vs ISO#155), and the result is... a post count. Look at it. Compare your readlist to this. You are townreading pretty much everyone in the top half.

idk what exactly you're wanting from me

my nomnomnom townread has been stated so many times that there's really no point in going over it again
my volpe townread is basically locktown now after our latest engagement
my read on you is lower than it was but still town; I've even said before that I'm not particularly interested in rethinking this until I have reason to

DeasVail is townish but I acknowledge that what I'm townreading him for is likely within his scumrange... which is why he's in my initial PoE list
Flavor Leaf is a personality tell; I think the way he's been handling the game is from his town chaos mindset rather than his manipulative scum mindset
davesaz is townish because I remember him usually being sortable by what he decides to focus on or respond with; I've liked his takes and haven't seen anything particularly weird with him
Almost50, same; he's awkward as fuck when he's scum and can't chain posts together in a way that makes sense consistently; I've seen no reason to think he hasn't been

Gammagooey I don't know very well, but the other three in that list (MariaR/chennisden/GuyInFreezer) either are players I've played with a decent amount and don't have a proper bead on or have given me little reason to actually town read them... but not really any reason to scumread them either

line below is null line

EP/elements are weak scum

so your issue is basically that I'm townreading everybody that's actually posted pretty much anything this game, which is ironically the slots that I've explained already