Mini Normal 2114: Game Over

[Auro]

Hi, sup!

[Auro]

Don't think I'll read most of the game. Flavor what parts of the game are relevant?

Yes I remember you! I was looking forward I forgot the game we played in though.

[Auro]

Yours is nice too
Well I'm a VT if my slot hasn't claimed yet

[Auro]

Prolly give me a chance to gamesolve before hammering?

[Auro]

VOTE: Invisibility

Quick day?

This flips scum, that’s 2/3 day 1 for me.

This is wrong. Insomnia, if my lynch happens, will you lynch flavor?

[Auro]

I am good with a Vizzy lynch today

I just wish I could have a better read on FL and Titus.....

I don't get it - you're doubting your townread on FL, admitting you need to re-evaluate; but you're good with my lynch already? Are you not even interested in what I'd have to say?

[Auro]

I don't think I'll do a proper catch-up - I'll have my own style of getting up to date and that'll involve interactions for a couple days and haphazard reads of different points of the game.

What's your read on Titus' slot?

[Auro]

there's 4 other slots that are voting you

Yeah, but Flavor being that sure that I'm scum seems bad.
Hobbes being okay with lynching me while also doubting his FL "town tunnel" seems ick as well.

[Auro]

Well, "Vizzy requested replacement and is actually active, this is like nomnomnom replacing when she went out" I think isn't exactly reason enough to quicklynch me? Town also gets tilted when pushed, no? And the number of replacements this game has been high in general.

And "quick before someone comes in and charisma's the slot" - meh, if you're town wouldn't you rather someone towned up the slot if town?

Of course, this is unless he has a 100% confident PoE - but I think 100% townreads have to come with very substantial reason.

[Auro]

Probably town but it's moreso based around DP's posts (previous slot holder) and how he treated FL w/r/t his read on Ank.

And Ank also town read him and it's someone that Ank has a lot of experience with.

Not lynching that slot and probably never reconsidering that one.

Yes that's cool. I know DP, and was loosely following the end of day play at that time, so asked.

[Auro]

By F3 you mean D3?
Well let's start here, why should I believe you're town?

[Auro]

maybeeee tfl as well? that might be a really unfair treatment of the slot though because i literally can't find a reason for him to call me scum based on VCA alone and not read my post and even have the slightest "damn this guy's town" reaction, I really find that hard to believe.

Without context I don't really get this, link to the relevant post please?

[Auro]

I see my slot was on the D1 scum wagon, and nomnomnom was a powerful scum role - you believe that was bussing?

[Auro]

VOTE: Mislynch Bait
I don't want to vote the pr soft

hi mislync bait sorry that we're lynching you and you just joined we don't really have that much time left in the game

well I guess we kinda do but we don't

anyway your slot fakeclaimed pr and i dont like that
also fl said some stuff

This looks like a pretty lame effort for a bus.

[Auro]

Oh apparently there was a reason for scum reading me

Well I read DP's posts about you and FL being scum theater but I'm not sure I'd put much stock into what he says when tilted.

[Auro]

Wait
I think least effort path here is being convinced that you're locktown, if you're extremely confident in the PoE of three slots with four mislynches remaining.

[Auro]

So fmpov that means check for Insomnia town and the exact solve of Bob+pine.
Sure, I'll ISO you and give thoughts - but you'll have to wait, 2am for me and I need to sleep. See ya.

[Auro]

You don't find it comical how you guys base your reads on "friendships"?

Which read was based on a friendship? I saw FL say "this slot is scum", saw his reasons last page, and said that. Replace FL with anyone and I'd say the same?

[Auro]

I disagree, I still think Auro’s in a scum slot after his posts. You can see it in his posts that he knows he replaced into a dead slot, but he’s gonna do his darndest anyways. It’s not his scum game to lose.

So... If I replaced in and this was a town slot I'd just piss off and not bother about gamesolving?

What do you think I'd do, FL?

[Auro]

I’m not completely certain with the Auro lynch, but I believe it is the best option until further evidence arises. I do not wish to push another slot.

My reads aren't "further evidence"? You don't wish to obtain "further evidence" by pushing elsewhere?

[Auro]

Thing is Mislynch Bait essentially came into the game similar to when you did, but even later. Nomnom was going down. Then she replaced.

Same thing just happened with Invisibility, but it’s getting dragged along more.

Again - replacing out on getting pushed isn't a scumtell for everyone. If this reasoning is strong enough to override other reasons for believing I'm town, that's ick.

[Auro]

TheFuzzyLogic is the best lynch for town

He's outside Insomnia's PoE.
Unless Insomnia's scumgame improved massively from last I met him, this feels like obvtown insomnia. Do you agree in that read?

Do you think Insomnia's own reasons to townread TFL are incorrect?

[Auro]

So fmpov that means check for Insomnia town and the exact solve of Bob+pine.
Sure, I'll ISO you and give thoughts - but you'll have to wait, 2am for me and I need to sleep. See ya.

This is you being told exactly what you wanted to hear

So as town I'd tell him to f off and I'm not going to give thoughts? Is that what you recollect of my town play?

[Auro]

you need any explanation for this other than what has been said, ask and I will gladly provide.

Provide pl0x

[Auro]

if you are scum you not just going to say I am not going to game solve, that would be stupid

"he's going to do his darndest, it's not his Scum game to lose, you can see it" is bad reasoning. You can see why scum!Auro would say he's gamesolving, then you can see that town!Auro has motivations to gamesolve - obviously I wouldn't accept my own lynch this easily so saying I'm trying is NAI at best.

[Auro]

Meta is a soso indicator of scum as good players can manipulate their meta

I'm talking about competency. You can't just "manipulate" your meta into being an awesome, confident scum player.

Insom is competent, he was terribly underconfident last I played, and thought a lot before every move, etc etc

[Auro]

Anything can be faked......

Surely you realize the problems with this logic? You don't agree that "ability" is outside the realm of what can be faked?

[Auro]

I do see what you mean about me looking a little scummy by not voting. As I had said before, my first two games were both scum, so I learned that I should always be careful not to look scummy. Unfortunately, this has carried into my town games and now it just makes me a not great town player. Sorry about that.

This justification for an L-1 vote is scummy.

[Auro]

I was talking about the confidence part......

The ability to portray confidence* then. If you're super worried, write off the game as a probable loss, seek support from your scumbuddies...

[Auro]

Oh, I didn't realize.
Why Rex?
I think I'll sheep Insomnia and lynch in his pool?

[Auro]

I mean, if 2/3 are scum in that pool and I'll one of them, I'm freely offering to bus my partner if he hits right. So either I'm taking that gamble as scum, or I'm scum who knows my partner isn't in the PoE, or I'm simply VT and my confidence in Insomnia's reads makes this a lot effort high scum% Lynch. What do you think it is, Flavor?

[Auro]

I follow games from time to time.

[Auro]

I mean, the other two in your PoE are absent, can't engage with them.
Not really interested in reading 100+ pages if I'm getting lynched anyway.

Can we talk about Rex?

[Auro]

I build reads through engagement primarily.

[Auro]

Give me a few hours, I'll try getting into the game more. Have other things to focus on rn.

[Auro]

This looks like stalling with a bit of underlined truth. Your scum potential increases.

I'm literally stalling for a few hours, I think I've thrown out some questions that I'm waiting for answers on; I've made it clear I'm not analyzing the previous 100 pages?

If I'm scum who knows my partner isn't in the PoE, then there's something wrong with Insomnia's PoE.

{Titus, Looker} town; looker merely from the above posts: I think low chance of calling my slot town and then saying my scum equity increases for "stalling". Titus from what I remember reading of DP, and her refusal to vote on me although this is weaker reasoning

[Auro]

It wasn’t justification for an L-1 vote, just me acknowledging that I know it looks scummy to not vote for ages.

If that's a prominent feature in your game, yes; but a hasty L-1 when others can prematurely hammer can have a negative effect, and thus looks scummy. It feels like you know this and are trying to justify it by saying you need a vote in play to look towny.

Plus, if I flip town it looks bad anyway.

[Auro]

Do you feel TFL is following a scum neighborizer? I think it's WIFOM to bust deadline.

I don't grok this - what do you mean by "following a scum neighborizer"?

[Auro]

I'm always confident. I don't see why confidence comes from town alone and not scum. Pressure dying is independent of my flip - so I don't see why I'd panic as town alone and not scum. Just because you'd be manic repping into a dying slot doesn't mean I would. If anything, dying as scum has a much greater impact than being lynched as a VT.

What is my immediate "solve", Pine? Who have I said is scum? I simply said I can sheep Insomnia if he's voting elsewhere in the PoE; I'm scumhunting Rex but very clearly am still in the process (check the top of the page). *If* content from me is the demand, then sure - but that'll require that I engage for a while, because I'm not really willing to read everything. I can try for a bit, but after some time - asking for a few hours is not "stalling" and why I'm asking for a few hours should be easy to discern.

[Auro]

OK, I see. I've been asking to hold out since a couple days ago. My bad; I'll make this a priority soon enough. Feel free to go ahead if I'm absent after 4-5 hours.

[Auro]

So fmpov that means check for Insomnia town and the exact solve of Bob+pine.
Sure, I'll ISO you and give thoughts - but you'll have to wait, 2am for me and I need to sleep. See ya.

This doesn't mean I've solved the game - it means that my effort outside engagement is optimally to study those three slots.

[Auro]

If it was a planned trajectory, I don't see why I'd start pushing Rex?
If I had a partner feeding me stuff it'd be terribly easy to vomit out an analysis quick.

[Auro]

Do you feel TFL is following a scum neighborizer? I think it's WIFOM to bust deadline.

I don't grok this - what do you mean by "following a scum neighborizer"?

What's that an answer to?

[Auro]

Are there any claims/results apart from the flips?

[Auro]

It's kind of hard to engage when most slots are sparsely active at best.

[Auro]

You mean insomnia? Can you explain why you believe Insomnia is town?

[Auro]

My actual role is combined neighborizor-rolecop and my result was that Looker is scum traitor, that's why non-lmh was trying to push that slot at the beginning of this dayphase.

It just seemed like a complete waste of time to me to lynch a non-killing scum.

Wait, wut? Titus, is this true?

[Auro]

@ Titus
Your slot claimed neighborizer and role cop

@Pine
Are you going to post anything of substance

Oh well there goes hiding the rolecop part. It's an interesting combination. Usually I'd want to neighborize town, but here I should neighborize scum.

So I'm taking it by your posting that DP was fakeclaiming results out of tilt?

[Auro]

Titus voted Rex, though. Her predecessor claimed a scum traitor rolecop on Looker, but Titus hasn't commented.
Can you explain what's going on?

[Auro]

Titus, are you around to talk?
Should I sheep you on Rex?

[Auro]

Let’s begin by looking at the night lynch. Gjt was nightkilled. Unfortunately, due to Gjt’s softclaim, which is a valid reason in itself to nightkill Gjt, there is little we can determine from this. Gjt was voting the lynch, which means scum didn’t feel threatened by him, as Gjt did not vote a member of the mafia. Therefore, I’m going to ignore the nightkill.

2688, as stated in 2689, really has no defence for Bob at all, and was an almost entirely useless post. It comes across as if Invisibility is making a vague attempt at defending Bob in an Invisibility/Bob scum team, but this post alone confirms neither of them.

I don’t like Titus’s 2691 I don’t see why it is better for town to observe than state their opinion, apart from if they want to see what arguments someone has. However, it is even in that scenario better to also state your opinion, lest a bandwagon begin.

Whilst I read through, I’m noticing Flavor Leaf quite often says how he is obvtown. If he is so obviously so, I think it would be good for him to write a town defence for himself, thereby proving it. It shoudln’t be hard if it’s obvious.

In 2734, Titus is again vague and fails to properly answer the question. Without any justified reads or real input at this point, it doesn’t look great for him.

Will be continued later, there’s an irl thing I need to do for a few hours.

I actually think this post is towny,

especially

the part about Flavor Leaf.

[Auro]

Scum Me goes for perfects.

Hey Flavor, is this true? Have you *never* bussed D1?
Have you ever been a vote on your partner's lynch in D1?
If that's a consistent feature in your meta for a long period, then you're locktown to me.

[Auro]

Ank how do you feel about wagoning invis with me

In your iso at this point you have too little justification. Whilst you may have stated that you scumread him, you have little evidence he is scummy, and so to attempt to start a wagon without absolute certainty Invisibility is scum isn’t good.

VOTE: Nomnomnom

If this is a scum's progression on a scum, I declare myself defeated.

Agree. Went and read through pages from 801-1052; Rex feels obvtown now.
Titus, I won't do Rex unless you have a rolecop result on him or something.

[Auro]

I think...
VOTE: Pine

[Auro]

Scum Me goes for perfects.

Hey Flavor, is this true? Have you *never* bussed D1?
Have you ever been a vote on your partner's lynch in D1?
If that's a consistent feature in your meta for a long period, then you're locktown to me.

Actually, I don’t think I have. I even claimed masons with a partner going down day 1 over bussing

Cool. You can take the W if this is your first time. Noting that it's still worth verifying*

I should say to make a fake cop guilty claim especially this far into the game is scummy.

Trust me when I say DP is the kind of player who would do that when pissed off, it's absolutely not AI for him.

[Auro]

That's probably why you should read, lol. Also, my question was directed at sausa, so that's why I'm waiting.

And you'll notice I did, in part

[Auro]

Do you think he is scum trying to butter up a townie or that you think insomnia and invis could be partners.

What do you believe?

[Auro]

Honestly, the Titus slot seems to be more and more like lurking scum. DP claimed scum ping on Looker and FL. When asked about Titus did not know what I was talking about. After a few days she confirmed her role. It felt very much like she did not read her slot fake claim and then when she is called out she realized what was going on and then went along with it in order not to get lynched.

Her predecessor fakeclaimed it out of tilt.
Titus wants to lynch Rex, she's not "going along with" the FL/Looker solve.
What are you talking about?

Remove your Titus vote and vote Pine.

[Auro]

If you want me to look at/read anything specific and give opinions, I'm here.

[Auro]

Scum Me goes for perfects.

Hey Flavor, is this true? Have you *never* bussed D1?
Have you ever been a vote on your partner's lynch in D1?
If that's a consistent feature in your meta for a long period, then you're locktown to me.

You're saying this is true, which means I won't find any evidence to the contrary.
So while that's true, and you claim it is, I've already

said

you're locktown.

So,

[Auro]

I didn't say that, TFL did and I quoted him saying it.

[Auro]

Rex is town, unsure about TFL.
Is that hammer?

[Auro]

Hmm, I think we should discuss Rex's alignment before night kicks in. Apart form gut, why else is Rex suspect?

[Auro]

Yeah, I also don't want Rex, I think Pine is a good lynch.

[Auro]

TFL's ignoring my posts about DP tilt.

[Auro]

I don't think that should be a strong factor at all - Rex seems like a new-ish player and I'm sure as scum he'd be more conscious of where his vote is, or at least coached into that.

[Auro]

Looker's vanilla. I just saw this.

You must have one more result, since it's D3?

[Auro]

Why is it fishy if it's an established pattern of behavior across many games? DP's slot did that sort of things a lot of times when pissed off. Pretty obviously it's a fake claim. Obviously if Titus didn't read the game after repping in she wouldn't know about it. Where's the inconsistency here?

Do you believe DP wouldn't fakeclaim if town? There's tons of evidence to the contrary.

Sure, but don't pursue this line of reasoning alone in future days to push Titus.

Why won't you lynch Pine? What's town about him?

[Auro]

I think we read the game differently. Can you point out where Titus went along with it? She's been pushing Rex and that's not related to the fakeclaim... She ignored the fakeclaim, that doesn't mean she's saying it was.

Basically DP did some fakeclaiming shit, Titus repped in and didn't read the game, so she's playing like a new player.

Okay; is Pine towny or scummy? Where does he lie? Why?

[Auro]

Cool. Titus, as I said before I think the absence of Rex on VCAs is indicative of newbness more than scumminess, his nom "bus" doesn't feel like one, and his ISO seems generally obvtown.

Do you have any read on Pine?

[Auro]

I can lynch TFL also.

[Auro]

Is auro scum or are scum scared to make a move and lynch him?

Why would scum be afraid of lynching me? I think I'm a pretty safe push right now.

[Auro]

I really, really dislike this kind of voter intimidation, and it shakes my read on FL. I’m no longer comfortable blithely following his vote

Haven't you had your own reason for voting me anyway?
Why is FL worth being "blithely followed" if he's town?
I think scum!FL would know that that has little effect on my reads - I'm operating under the assumption that I'm today's lynch anyway; and he would have also read my post calling him locktown.

A small possibility is that he lied about his meta of not bussing partners D1. I said that's the only thing that would make him not-locktown to my eyes, so he could have been posturing against it.

Well, if someone can check it'd be great, otherwise I'll do it sometime.

[Auro]

Sup Flavor

[Auro]

I read Insomnia as town, Rex as town, and you as town via bus meta.
*If* I'm town, do you think I'm incorrect?

Pine and TFL feel scummy - both were on my wagon recently.

[Auro]

WIFOM aside, maybe they're already under heavy suspicion and one more mislynch would out them to everyone. That's WIFOM for a hypothetical, though.

I mean, I was speaking from the viewpoint that there are legitimate reasons for pushing me.

I've read bits of a few ISOs. I'll read yours.

VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic

[Auro]

I gave you an obvious explanation for Titus' behavior. Why have you ignored that?

[Auro]

I gave you an obvious explanation for Titus' behavior. Why have you ignored that?

If you are still in the phase of inquiry, why have you placed down a vote?

Game's moving too slow; looking at what wagons can be built is part of scumhunting engagement and not just questions, etc.

Being "dumb" isn't a towntell, I've been pushed for very dumb logic before from otherwise competent slots which I townread because it seemed sincere enough - nah, it was scum.

[Auro]

That's a red flag auro...You said we lynch in my PoE. What changed?

1. Your reasons for townreading TFL aren't strong enough, versus his scummy play
2. I played the game, was always liable to change my reads from your PoE
3. I've mentioned that both Pine and TFL have scum equity; TFL is a more achievable lynch
4. Pine's post unvoting me after FL's "threat" seems weird coming from scum who'd know I'm town and that I can shift off momentum

This isn't a "red flag".

[Auro]

-

[Auro]

Looker, I'm sure that FF's meta, as he claims, will reveal that he never busses partners D1; that he would have bussed *in this way* is extremely unlikely (leading to a replace out etc). You can verify this yourself if you want, but unless you find *damning* evidence for him being scum, you should treat him as pretty much locktown.

[Auro]

Why is that an ego issue, Titus? I've established pretty strong evidence for my townread in FL, and somewhat strong evidence for Rex town.
Instead of calling it 'ego', perhaps tell me why my reasoning fails?

[Auro]

Given my reads are nearly exactly the same as yours (perhaps move Rex up a couple positions), shouldn't I be higher up on there as well, Looker?

[Auro]

Pine has been shit in every game that I've played with him.

Implication being?

[Auro]

FL, help me see Fuzzy town? I think as a player he should be pretty logical, so his push on Titus doesn't make much sense when her behavior was explained.

Why Insomnia? I thought that slot was obv town.

[Auro]

Why do you believe TFL is scum over bad town?

[Auro]

@Auro - do you think Insomnia is town?

Yeah I said he felt obvtown?
Why isn't he town?

[Auro]

UNVOTE:
I don't townread Titus anymore, and I'm losing my TFL scumread as well.

[Auro]

The longer you stall without a vote, the scummier you look

I don't know why you keep pressing on this when I've been voting Pine and TFL both till now. I don't care if I look scummy for taking time to decide where I want to vote.

Cool, let's lynch Pine then.

[Auro]

Titus/Pine is a valid solve.

Titus' jab at my 'ego' when I'm openly asking for reasons against my reads makes little sense to me, and I don't know if town!her would townread me this easily either.

VOTE: Pine

[Auro]

Do you really feel someone as lynchbaity as Fuzzy wouldn't have been pushed by now? I know he's scum and I know the people not voting him are sheltering scum. Stating a fucking "era" as justification is bullshit. Is that the case you built?

You

know

he's scum? You're 100% sure?
I don't see a case in your ISO - perhaps I'm missing something.
If your case is that he's playing bad, that's not strong enough.
If your case is that he's lynchbaity but you're the only slot pushing him... meh. My predecessor was also lynchbaity (apparently); why wasn't my slot a good vote?

I want to see justification for why TFL is

scum

versus just "bad town".

Never again with Pine

I don't get the random posts with the Pine salt. You've stated this before already.

I'm not voting in your POE; I'm voting Fuzzy.

You say "We should all lynch Pine", and also refuse to vote in Insomnia's PoE which contains Pine.
Multiple other slots want to lynch Pine. So... I don't get your complaints about the game.
Titus is townreading Pine - does that not give you concern?

[Auro]

Titus is townreading Pine - does that not give you concern?

@Looker

And vote Pine now?

[Auro]

Titus, please explain your read on me. If you're town I'm looking for something specific.

[Auro]

Auro, how come you’re not considering bob at all

Have no impression of his current posting, and I find it slightly difficult to read his older posts anyway for some reason. Should I be giving his slot careful consideration?

[Auro]

Just a reminder, we can't reference TM till it fully concludes.

[Auro]

FL, I said I'm not scumreading TFL anymore, right? So to me, it's indeed possible that my wagon was all town.

[Auro]

There are problems with Titus' read of me, but I can't explain them right now.

[Auro]

@Looker: As long as you don't give suitable justification for a TFL lynch, you won't have the numbers to lynch TFL. Your vanity vote will hold no more value than the lack of a vote. And in your own words... the more you stall, the more your scum potential increases.

Pine's at L-2. You could bring him to L-1. You state multiple times that you want Pine lynched, but refuse to vote him. Perhaps you're partners with him, and you're angry at him because he's not playing - explaining the continued salt in thread?

[Auro]

FL, I said I'm not scumreading TFL anymore, right? So to me, it's indeed possible that my wagon was all town.

Do you town read Titus and Looker?

I've expressed I lost my Titus townread, right? I'm not sure yet if my issues with her read of me make her scum for sure, though.

A major basis for my Looker read is her exchanges with Nomnomnom D1.

[Auro]

Titus' read of Pine is also very fishy, which makes me want to lynch Pine even more today.

Pedit: Possibly; but her refusal to lynch Pine lends partner equity to Pine and thus, he's a good lynch anyways, no?

[Auro]

On the other hand... She would have pushed TFL harder and would have cased him; resigning with "Good luck with Pine" is weird if both are scum.

[Auro]

with partner Fuzzy

Calvin and Hobbes scumteam :O

[Auro]

My Rex town read might be fAding

I think you should revisit this only if Pine and/or Titus flip town? In his last post he said he's down to vote either.

[Auro]

Can you explain the bait thing?

[Auro]

Master baiter.
(Heheheh)

[Auro]

TFL/Rex, vote Pine?

[Auro]

Noice. L-1.

[Auro]

I think Titus' targeting Looker and revealing that she's vanilla eliminates a Titus/Looker team.

[Auro]

Is my scum equity because of my predecessor?

[Auro]

I've never played a FF game but hear about it a lot, the spikey hair dude does remind me of Calvin indeed can I just jump in and play the latest one?

[Auro]

Weird question to ask if you share the same feelings. Feels as though you never even had the feeling of TFL scum in the first place.

You know he's scum? You're 100% sure?
I don't see a case in your ISO - perhaps I'm missing something.
If your case is that he's playing bad, that's not strong enough.
If your case is that he's lynchbaity but you're the only slot pushing him... meh. My predecessor was also lynchbaity (apparently); why wasn't my slot a good vote?

I want to see justification for why TFL is scum versus just "bad town".

Also: This is to evaluate Looker's own case; I don't imply I share the same feelings, and that should be obvious when I state elsewhere I'm losing my scumread of him.

---

Auro, who's scum with Pine?

Titus/Pine

is a valid solve.

her (Looker) refusal to lynch Pine lends

partner equity to Pine

and thus, he's a good lynch anyways

---

How did you even end up asking TFL to vote Pine with you after the push you had on him?

UNVOTE:
I don't townread Titus anymore, and I'm

losing my TFL scumread

as well.

FL, I said I'm

not scumreading TFL

anymore, right? So to me, it's indeed possible that my wagon was all town.

Also: I like his attack on Titus, and carefree attitude towards his lynch.

---

You could find answers to most of your questions if you just read my posts. I don't get the point of these.

[Auro]

Also, don't hammer; I think it's commonly accepted better play to claim intent and draw a claim first?

[Auro]

Insomnia, surely you must know it's not necessary to vote someone *only if* you have a concrete scum case on them?
A prominent characteristic of my play is hard pushing people to see how they react, who else joins, etc.

I did point out reasons for pushing TFL back then - inconsistencies in the logic behind his Titus push, his piling on to a wagon on me, that he was an achievable wagon.
I also pointed out reasons for reversing my TFL read in the above post - my disliking Titus, (and thus) that he was attacking Titus at all, his attitude around the lynch.

"Swinging at random" and "Shenanigans" seem like disingenuous accusations to make.

If Bob's voting Pine I'm cool with that As I said, I don't make much out of his play this day anyway, and I can't really get myself to read his earlier posts.

[Auro]

A vote can have a set of various weighted reasons behind it, and doesn't have to be *purely* a pressure vote / concrete scumcase-backed vote, etc. Hell, I can just vote for the lulz if I want to. Your accusation that I'm "swinging around" doesn't have much merit, because my only presented read changes have been on Titus and TFL.

And where did Pine town it up? His attack on FL and my unvote? I don't read that as towny, just that it's a weird move for scum. I don't believe that others will read that as towny enough to not want to lynch Pine either.

My thoughts would be more accurately summarized as: "Pine cos PoE and no posts; oh wait TFL's posts are bad, people want to lynch him, cool let's vote there; oh wait Titus may be scum and I'm changing my mind on TFL; also Titus and Looker have decent equity with Pine, let's go back there".

[Auro]

I also now believe Insomnia has partner equity with Pine as well. Although Pine is on the same tier as me in his recent reads post, I get the feeling he doesn't *really* want to lynch Pine; if Bob is town, his "plan" of going through the three lynches with Pine being the last lynch offers him enough towncred to coast for the rest of the game given Pine's negative associations with other slots.

His attack on me feels stretched. The questions seem largely empty as my answers could, in large part, be found at worst a couple pages behind. His questions also carry assumptions ("share feelings") that intend to make me look scummy, when it's obvious they're not true.

My reason to doubt Pine is very weak and doesn't make me want to keep him alive. I continue to townread Looker *unless* Pine is in fact scum, which is a flip I want (thus, "partner equity with Pine").

"No reason to vote TFL": you very well know, Insomnia, that I said I *can* vote someone for the lulz and that's not a gotcha scumcase; I've laid out my reasons for my vote at that point. It was *not* a lulz vote, although it could very well be and still be NAI. This is not moving the goalposts. This is me demonstrating the weakness in your argument.

[Auro]

If you want an argument sans the "word juggling":

Voting for the lulz should be NAI; voting for mildly strong reasons should thus also be NAI at worst; my reasons weren't a concrete case or purely pressure, but a mix of different factors - still NAI at worst.

[Auro]

we have exactly 4 mislynches

Also, I believe this is incorrect; there are 9 alive and assuming 2 mafia left, we have exactly 2 mislynches to expend before we need to hit both scum; is there something I missed?

[Auro]

I could've lynched Pine and proceed with lynching the other slots, that gives me more credit than lynching him last.

No. The credit will burn by then time you lynch the last slot in the three. A Pine scumflip "opens up" the game via other associations. Plus, you may even not receive credit for it, given FL already says it could simply be a Pine+Insomnia solve.

Scum reads him and then asks someone about why they think he's scum over just bad town.

I asked someone why they believed TFL was scum over bad town

AFTER

I stated I am losing my scumread of TFL; plus, that was an attack on their own read and it doesn't need my agreement on the conclusion.
I don't see why you struggle to understand that? You talk about some 'duality' and all, but I literally posted in thread that I'm losing my scumread of him... so what's hard to grok there?
Here, let me requote it to you:

UNVOTE:
I don't townread Titus anymore, and I'm losing my TFL scumread as well.

I want to see justification for why TFL is scum versus just "bad town".

3126 comes before 3225.

i can't even coherently transform this into an interpretation lmfao

I'll interpret it in even simpler words:

Vote someone for the lulz

: NAI

Vote someone for semi-legitimate reasons

: NAI at worst
And this isn't even the primary point of my argument as you're making it look like.

[Auro]

Pine is at 4 votes, there's no counter wagon

And yet...

Looker is trying to push a TFL wagon.
Titus is trying to push a TFL wagon, and is now trying to push a Rex wagon.
You're trying to divert to an Auro wagon.

All three are viable Pine partners.

[Auro]

^^Even then, my thought process is reflected in 3126, and is also an attack on Looker.

[Auro]

Like literally 8 posts apart. Your case is "

Auro shouldn't be asking someone why TFL is scum over bad town if they believe TFL is town

" which is dumb when Auro mentions he's losing the scumread

8 posts later

and the question is

independently valid

anyway. Do you seriously believe I shouldn't ask someone about their case unless I agree with their read?

I don't know why people keep lolquoting posts of mine as though there's some damning evidence in there.

Pine->Insomnia->Titus. FL, will you follow this if I'm lynched?

[Auro]

Is that you escaping the argument or accepting that that's a bad reason for a scumread?

[Auro]

... she's a claimed neighborizer+rolecop, right?

[Auro]

I was waiting for that!

Titus, is that the

only

reason you think I'm scum? Or is there more to it?

[Auro]

Tomorrow would be pre-LyLo without a scumflip and I think it's generally accepted that that's the best time for a massclaim, why do you think otherwise? You've joined 2013 so surely you must have seen this?

Titus' progression on me is 90% a scumclaim. Can't explain why in perfect detail but maybe to some extent, tomorrow morning

[Auro]

This question is scummy. It implies my reasoning isn't good enough when you wouldn't be happy with any answer I provide. You're not going to roll over and admit to being scum

I already mentioned I had problems with the reasoning behind your townread of me. If you're flipping me, you're next.

[Auro]

As soon as I get off Auro, it starts back up

"But Pine has no counterwagons!!"

I know you have some deal with Insomnia and I'm fine if you hammer, but since I flip town, treat me like an IC and let's gamesolve before?

[Auro]

Pretty sure Auro is town.

Auro, get past your ego and vote FF or rex.

Drunk Titus appreciates it.

Titus, please explain your read on me. If you're town I'm looking for something specific.

I have no clue what you're looking for but I feel the wagon on you is too easy, you're not defensive, you're asking mostly fair questions, and there's better suspects.

... she's a claimed neighborizer+rolecop, right?

This.

VOTE: Auro

I don't like Auro trying to put everyone with Pine either.

So Titus is pretty sure I'm town, and also that I have a big ego which I need to get past. It's a very weird accusation to level on me, especially when I'm being transparent with my reasoning.

Titus should not have been townreading me. At least for those reasons. At least at the point that she posted 3247, Titus should know that defensiveness is not a scumtell (and thus non-defensiveness is not a towntell), and I doubt that "asking fair questions" is something Titus would townread me for, either. I can't provide evidence for this because rules, but what Titus' beliefs about what makes me town or not at the time she made that post should be are inconsistent with what she's stated, and is thus highly likely a scumclaim.

Titus' sudden 180 on me is surprising, because my thoughts could very easily be "wrong egoistic town", which she was pretty sure about when I was voting Pine earlier. Note that she gives 0 reasoning against the Pine associations. It's hard to believe that I would become the biggest suspect *merely* from my teamsolves.

There's no attempt at engagement. There's no real questioning to figure out alignments. Throughout the day, Titus has only been going for the most viable wagon which isn't Pine.

I checked to see her D1 predecessor was off the Wimpy wagon as well, and made mild attempts to divert it too perhaps. Detective Pikachu's posts around the Ank lynch are actually consistent with the idea of scum!DP.

[Auro]

Auro has hard scumreads on like...a third of the playerlist right now.

Third of the playerlist: 3 players
Number of scum remaining prob: 2 players

I think {FL, TFL, Looker, Rex} are all town.
{Bob} idk, but on the towny side of null.
{Insomnia} recent attack is scummy, but I'd suspect if you were scum
{Titus, Pine} my current solve.

Given that some of my reads are associations and not individual scumreads, and individually speaking I have a whole lot of townreads, this is a pretty dumb accusation. Framing it as "a third of the playerlist" when that's just one more than the number of scum remaining is very ick.

Accusing me of "throwing out all kinds of shit" is also a dumb accusation - did you ever hear of "gamesolving" or "re-evaluation"? Secondly, it's very unfair to say I'm not exercising logic or procedure - I'm making an effort to detail my processes, and if something's unclear you can simply ask like Insomnia did.

These are standard attacks scum take when they push me when I'm actively posting.

Titus and Pine have both hopped on opportunistically after Insomnia's appeal to FL to fulfill his promise. TFL's vote here isn't particularly scummy, *but* if Titus flips town later, revisit this.

[Auro]

@TheFuzzyLogic: Please don't vote outside Titus/Pine after my lynch.

@Looker: Titus and Pine both have much higher scum equity than TFL. I'll need you to stop tunneling TFL (unless Titus flips town) and vote in Titus/Pine tomorrow. Can you do that? If there's something you disagree with, let's talk now.

@FL: I think scum may have picked up on something related to why you're a bad NK target. Go for Titus/Pine tomorrow and *not* Bob. There's a chance Insomnia will attempt to get you to vote Bob instead, ignore that and go straight for Titus/Pine. I'm here if you want to discuss.

@Rex: Sheep my dead reads pls! As I said, Titus' stated beliefs about me is a scumclaim and although I can't prove it now, my flip should show that I'm saying the truth - and I'm very confident of this.

[Auro]

Titus, given I'm flipping because of FL's promise and I'm saying I'll flip town... You don't want to talk about my push on you?

[Auro]

Interesting
Undecided about the better lynch in {Titus, Pine} tomorrow.

[Auro]

Reasons for FL town:
1. He has a consistent, years-long meta of not bussing scum partners D1; it's very highly unlikely that he chooses to not just bus but take the lead in that lynch now.
2. FL would almost never promise Insomnia (who can plausibly lead town) his vote, after a partner's lynched. (Only if they're SvS but this is definitely not the case)
3. FL has no need sorting me when I don't hold his push on my slot against him, and am perfectly fine with him voting me because of a "promise".

If FL is taken to LyLo and anyone 1v1s him, always lynch the other slot. Treat FL as an IC after my flip. Dead Auro will treat pushes against FL as scumclaims.

[Auro]

VOTE: Pine

You know what

VOTE: Auro

VOTE: Pine

Fuck me man for fuck’s sake

This is towny for Insomnia
Insomnia, say you come around to lynching me anyway, let's talk about Titus?

[Auro]

I know who DP is lol, and I know they have meta together.
DP knew FL was super hard tunneled on Ank, it could very easily be scum posturing, with intent to NK Ank if she had survived anyway

[Auro]

3 hours to deadline. What's with these weird lulls in the game?

[Auro]

Interesting nightkill, considering I was about to push Titus today.

[Auro]

I think she targeted me - I got a message about a neighborhood I apparently don't have access to.

[Auro]

Oh. Nevermind the above*

[Auro]

VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic

[Auro]

Reaction testing me huh?

[Auro]

Well I'm a VT if my slot hasn't claimed yet

[Auro]

Nope. I was neighborized by Titus, though.

[Auro]

Do you have innos on anyone else from the living players?

[Auro]

Coolio. TFL, claim.

[Auro]

TFL/Rex, vote Pine?

VOTE: Pine

Noice. L-1.

Wait. Would TFL do this though?
Or should I not think about it?

[Auro]

Thought I was inno'd? Or you think there's a chance I took a lucky guess as scum?

[Auro]

I think there's just one scum remaining though, if you have a mechanical reason for 1 scum in {Auro/Insomnia} we should resolve that.

[Auro]

ugh....
i really think Auro should die but Titus vote on him makes me
a bit nervous . I dont trust Titus and i dont trust Auro.

Btw i think FL call for mass claim tomorrow is just terrible. Actually it beyond terrible but from what i get from everything
is that this is Boon being Boon.

Phone posting so i am kind of limited. Will post better when i get home.

Titus and Auro are high on my lynch list. I dont think they are both scum however i have been wrong this game and it is possible i am wrong here.

need time to think

@Looker, given this post, I don't see how Pine!scum and Titus!town changes your mind on Fuzzy.
Explain?

[Auro]

You know what

VOTE: Auro

Wasn't this the hammer? If it wasn't, VOTE: Pine. I know I said I'd write a full argument, but the deadline is much closer than I thought, and I don't have time to write more than this quick post (for irl reasons). I'll write one at the start of the very next day, though.

I hope this is right.

Why would Rex hammer his partner here? Yes, he gets towncred; but is it worth a lynch? He could've remained mum and gotten away with it, in all probability.

[Auro]

He deserves the win... why, exactly?
You've put in a lot of words to say you don't scumread him, but zero explanation about *why*.

[Auro]

Your reticence is making it harder to form a read on you.

Please outline "why" you believed he was scum yesterday (and the reasons must be pretty convincing if he would have died as a result).
Please also explain "why" you believe he's town now.

[Auro]

I mean, that's assuming there are 2 scum players left. 4 scum in a list of 13 feels like too much.
How is there at least one scum in {Auro, Insomnia}, Flavor?

[Auro]

She was a rolecop, not really much of a mechanical threat unless there's a traitor?

[Auro]

Why is FL scum? I'd need *very* convincing evidence to believe that, because the argument that scum!FL doesn't bus from meta is strong.

[Auro]

Not much of a threat? 2 clears is not enough of a threat? A potential red is not a threat? Lmfao

You understand that they're not clear, right? Rex and Looker are just "vanilla". Role != Alignment. They could be

vanilla

goons.

[Auro]

The converse applies too, I'd need superstrong towncases on everyone else before I'd lynch FL.

[Auro]

Even if it's a PR, I can't imagine a role that strongly points to scum and not town - unless they planned some fakeclaim gambit. Titus feels like a sub-optimal kill for anyone who wasn't being hard-pushed by her.

[Auro]

Honestly? If I was scum with Pine we could've pushed a TFL lynch together and perhaps killed you at night - that seems like a superior strategy for me to take.
Of course, it's not entirely implausible that I'd bus the crap out of Pine and then try to coast off the towncred.
I don't know if I've exhibited any behaviors that exclusively come from town!me.

[Auro]

that seems like a superior strategy for me to take

Especially given the flips imply more weak investigative roles and I'd be the only one left to perform Night Kills, which means I leave myself open to getting guiltied - thus, bussing is <utility than lynching TFL and bussing the next day instead.

Also, you've been scum alongside me - I shade partners a lot as scum but I prefer to avoid bussing if I can, I think - so there's that.

[Auro]

I'll try from memory.

Nicholai - Some combination of invests I don't recall
Gjt - Town tracker/follower, investigated Nicholai N1 and saw him investigating Gjt (was skimming his ISO rn)
Titus - Town Neighborizer/Rolecop, hooded Looker N1 (Vanilla), hooded Rex N2 (Vanilla), hooded me N3
TFL - Town potato
Ankamius - VT
Mislynch Bait - Mafia JOAT
Pine - Mafia Goon

[Auro]

Oo....I know which one of you guys are scum.

Idk who I have yet.

[Auro]

I mean, Pine did flip vanilla, I don't see how that relates to 2 scum being left.
Looker by mech?

[Auro]

I see little reason for Looker to NK Titus, who already rolecopped her and found her vanilla and wasn't pushing her anyway.

I already claimed, dude - I'm VT.

[Auro]

Color me unsurprised.

[Auro]

feels faked as fuck

I think you can easily verify this part of her persona by skimming through past games of hers.

[Auro]

Literally the only claim left is Bob, if the rest of us are VTs.

[Auro]

Yet, Looker was the second vote on Nom when they were both at L-2.

Vote Count 1.11

gjt (5):

joges, mislynch bait, invisibility, kanna, ankamius

Mislynch Bait (5):

gjt, looker, flavor leaf, nicholai, SausasaurusRex

invisibility (1):

non imh

non imh (1):

bob3141

not voting (1) :

thefuzzylogic

With 13 alive, it takes seven to Lynch.

deadline:

(expired on 2020-01-21 05:30:00)
Looker voted Gjt because of Gjt's unvote, which I think can plausibly come from town!Looker.
Also, she *is* the hammer for Mislynch Bait's lynch so... ?

mod notes:

- joint mod iso

See amended deadline.

[Auro]

So she didn't have that arrogance/ego/stubbornness in games you've been with her in before?

[Auro]

Hell no I’d describe her as the exact opposite

Interesting.
Titus told her in the neighborhood she's targeting me - why she'd kill Titus is still a question to me.

[Auro]

TFL: "I don't trust you, Flavor Leaf" -> Doesn't vote MB, no vote at time of MB lynch
TFL: "I don't trust Auro or Titus" -> Votes me, when Pine is being lynched

TFL: *Naked votes Pine to L-1* a few pages before the above

Hmm.

[Auro]

Well, meh, I can see Nomnom replacing even with town!Looker telling her that.

[Auro]

He was killed because of his role, probably.

[Auro]

Looker was on the wagon, though... ?

[Auro]

I see, Nicholai didn't claim.

[Auro]

They moved off, and no he else did at the time.

Looker was on wagon at Nom's L-2, then shifted off when Gjt unvoted (which seems to be consistent with her calling anyone who unvotes scummy), and then returned to hammer a couple pages later - I don't see why her progression was scummy.

[Auro]

I think if we're playing the long run, lynching Looker is best

I think I agree with this right now.

[Auro]

We go to F5 with a mislynch.
Still don't see why Titus is NK'd if Looker's scum though

[Auro]

I'm not lynching any of Rex or TFL, they're my peeks.

? weren't you VT

[Auro]

Insomnia's either lying about his VT claim or that he had "peeks" on Rex/TFL, we should resolve that first.

[Auro]

I don't townread you as strongly as I do FL, Insomnia.

[Auro]

And I think Fuzzy should be first, lol.

[Auro]

Let that stay. Scum have to WIFOM if he’s PR or not. Bob claims tomorrow before you lynch him.

This is good reason to leave Bob alive.

[Auro]

I'm cool with bob, but then let's hear from everyone first - and Bob, claim.

[Auro]

I mean, if he *is* a cop and has a guilty, then we safely lynch that after lynching Bob.

[Auro]

You're all-in on Insomnia town?

[Auro]

Can you case please?

[Auro]

Well, my worry is that he could be scum who thought Titus was a *cop* and not a *rolecop* and thus night killed her.

[Auro]

Titus was a fucking cop

Why are we even discussing the nightkill here and who would make it? Everyone would.

Anybody could... but it's a pretty sub-optimal kill, because I literally said she's scumclaiming. Unless scum has some non-vanilla role they don't want Titus to see -- and I feel like this is low % -- they would've just leave her alive and kill someone else who's widely townread (like you). I would've been hard-pushing her today, free mislynch.

If she was

cop

though it's easy to see why she'd be the NK, and this does loosely point to Insomnia; however he would have believed this the previous day too - and why would he NK Gjt then? Gjt was also an investigative of sorts, true; but still, a direct cop claim from DP should be more dangerous. Hmm.

[Auro]

Titus why do you not want someone that is barley posting.

Claimed pine claimed he wanted to reevaluate when he unvoted auro and taht was 3 days ago. he the only reasons he gave for his on vote auro other than he wanted to sheep flav. Was that he though auro was stalling


Pine who do you think is scum. So far you have just prodged all game. You say auro was stalling but dont you think the same could be said about you.

bob's the first vote on Pine, do you really think he was bussing? When there's a chance of other investigatives in the game and 3 lynches for town? Would bob be this ballsy as a scum partner to Pine?

[Auro]

Lol Rex is like super obv town

[Auro]

“emptily diplomatic speech”

This was just in response to Looker's own message to Rex in case she dies. (Heavily paraphrased)
Looker: "If I die, lynch Titus if she doesn't rolecop Auro"
Rex: "If I die, idk lol, just do whatever, you'll have more info and it's best if you're not influenced by my opinions... this speech was useless but prolly for the best"

Empty? Kinda. Scummy? Nah.

[Auro]

I don't think we should lynch Bob today. TFL is always a better lynch IMO.

[Auro]

I would unvote, but I already did

Hmm, but

I think it looks worse the longer it takes you to vote.

The longer you stall without a vote, the scummier you look

[Auro]

Why various slots aren't scum:

Sausasaurus Rex

: If Nancy was in a hydra with me she'd call him "bleeding obvtown" and I'd agree.

Bob

: Bussed Pine while townreading me, leading to his lynch, + bad NK with Insomnia on his ass.

Looker

: No reason at all to kill Titus when Titus already had a result on her and I was hardpushing Titus as a Pine partner.

TheFuzzyLogic

: Offers *zero* resistance to his own lynch; also why does he NK Titus, who he and I both suspected, and whose townflip I said would incriminate him? Sure, she's a threat to him, but I'm in the game.

Flavor Leaf

: D1 Nomnomnom replace and hardbus, very hard to imagine FL does this with a buddy; consistent meta of the opposite behaviour.

Insomnia

: Play way different from my scumgame with him a year ago; lynched Pine when he could have lynched me.


Now which one of these is the weakest?

[Auro]

Yeah, that was my advice to you.

Pot and kettle?

[Auro]

I had a grand total of...

2 votes

at the time, and you posted your "advice"

10 minutes

after I unvoted.
Also, you have multiple people wanting to lynch you, just undecided about the order.
Either you haven't read the thread, or you lack self-awareness, or you're a hypocrite, or you're scum who was making noise.

Which is it, Looker?

[Auro]

The NK is still sub-optimal for him, though, and bussing Pine is also highly sub-optimal for him when I was a juicy counter-lynch.

[Auro]

I'd love to lynch Looker lol, but I want a perfect win

[Auro]

True. Still, let's use our time - one less town voice in the next day anyway.