Mini Normal 2115: Fin

[Chara]

VOTE: insomnia

hello everyone. the playerlist seems fun. don't worry, i'll be the saviour this game deserves and make it as boring as possible.

starting with.. insomnia. the bird is obviously town, so where is your issue coming from?

[Chara]

i know i've played with others on the list, but the only one i remember anything about is Alch. hello Alch!
insomnia feels very familiar but i'd need my memory jogged on that. it's like a sieve up there.

[Chara]

I was scum in a game where you were town. The one where Flavour Leaf and Vedith were my team mates. Mini something something

oh, that explains it. i wiped most of the details of that game out of my memory. being town against scum Flavour will do that.

the Death Note run by... Kuroi? Almost and i were scum in hydra i believe.

[Chara]

no, it was the one run by FL that we played, the non-mafia one. i remember now.

Frost just went V/LA for today so i doubt we can ask about Macabre.

[Chara]

i only take my opinions of players (personal ones, not AI ones) from my own experiences with them. i don't care what happened before, i only care about this game.

let's make it a friendly one. :>

[Chara]

Nobody is a fan of day 1.

Yet we all have to do it

So I find it really frustrating in every other game I play when someone comes in and goes "Day one? Nope"

It's not fair on all the other players

+1
i'm fine with day 1 because the first step for me in understanding how to read someone is getting a feel for how they play and think.

[Chara]

i'm not sure this discussion is the greatest way to start the game. Wimpy gave his answer, Alch acknowledge it, and if Wimpy felt attacked/uncomfortable with the question that's on him to communicate.

what does your own post want to accomplish besides continuing a likely uncomfortable thread of discussion? let's stick to the game here.

VOTE: profii

pedit: my post definitely seems unnecessary now, but i'll leave it in. i personally found Wimpy's posts on the subject useful for the general mindset thing i mentioned earlier.

[Chara]

why ask about those votes in particular?

[Chara]

Ame: i was joking about the bird being obvious town.

Egix: i was wondering why you were concerned about what seemed to be two of many random votes flying around, but it does look like you had a reason. i voted profii for 10, mainly.

i normally have a hard time dealing with gimmick posters, but something about the bird's style is just so attractive. could this be... love?

[Chara]

So what are you scum reading me for again?

Mostly for post 56 which felt a little exaggerated and forced to me. Followed by your immediate retraction about two minutes later. To me it read like 'oh shit I said something that might be perceived as scummy better retract it real quick.'

It's not a strong read tbh but it's a start.

i had the opposite read of insomnia's retraction there. it felt very quick in a way that wasn't forced, but genuine in a sort of "hm, maybe i reacted too quickly", and also as evidence that insomnia is posting without thinking too much about it. which is towny more than scummy.

[Chara]

People seem to have reads on Profii already. I don't like how Egix96 implied a town read on profii in post 68 and threw shade at those voting him. I think there's a strong chance that if one of profii and Egix96 flip scum, the other one will too

i don't think Egix was throwing any shade. 68 is a pretty neutral question. i did have a read on profii, if a minor day 1 ping can be counted as that. this seems a rather strong conclusion to make, and it assumes that scumpartners are going to react to 2-vote wagons are their partner. :>

. So how are the town points unwarranted?

I felt it was too obvious to warrant points. I might be biased

As I said, he wasn't awarding you town points for making the correct conclusion on Wimpy. He was awarding you town points for pointing out that Alchemist didn't make the right conclusion. How easy it was to make the conclusion on Wimpy doesn't play into it.

You've misinterpreted somni two times now and he responded to you both times as if you hadn't. This leads me to suspect that you two are sleeping together, as the crow puts it.

i think i'm too tired to follow the logic in this post (not that it's wrong necessarily, i'll try to reread the interactions talked about again in a bit), but the tone Ame is taking in trying to make misunderstandings clear, and the note about insomnia and profii, earns an early TL. at the very least Ame is paying attention properly.

[Chara]

Looker wearing his heart on his sleeve (along with his process) is interesting. i kind of like it.

best townread right now is probably insomnia. that he can talk about it so much while being internally consistent feels good to me. though i could be biased in that i TRed the initial interaction regarding Alch to begin with.

Alch's 201, or rather the end of it, i agree with completely. i said as much when we started about finding it a good idea to figure out how players tick. i don't find Alch misunderstanding wimpy's answer to be scum indicative, and i'm not sure why it would be. especially since the given scum motivation to that (i forget who said this, sorry) was something along the lines of trying to get players to push wimpy in order for him to react badly. that's a strategy i personally find just a little bit gross, not awful or anything but not something i believe Alch would attempt as scum in the first place.

pedit: i can give a plus one to that. though it's more a disagreement with what he's being pushed for.

[Chara]

what do you think of my townread on you?

pedit: to insomnia.

[Chara]

that it assigned an alignment to an NAI opinion about day 1. even if saying "first scum" sounds like an exaggeration/joke from profii. not the biggest thing but as i still haven't found anything else to chew on i'm fine with it, and profii's posting in general doesn't have townvibes so far. it's really not a big read, but since i didn't elaborate before i get why you're asking.

it does make me wonder about what seems to be a consensus against profii, who as far as i can see hasn't done anything acutely scummy except for "bad vibes". not sure yet if it means an intuitive feeling on the part of some townies that she's scum, or scum seeing some remarks against a player and deciding they work.

insomnia: thanks for the answer.

[Chara]

@Chara

Looker wearing his heart on his sleeve (along with his process) is interesting. i kind of like it.

(1) What in Looker's post above are you referencing as wearing their heart on their sleeve? (2) Have you played with Looker before?


You stated in 162 that you voted for profii because of his JTB vote post, and provided your reasoning in 214 that it was because it assigned AI to a NAI opinon:

Egix: i was wondering why you were concerned about what seemed to be two of many random votes flying around, but it does look like you had a reason. i voted profii for 10, mainly.

@Chara what didn't you like about profiis jtb vote?

that it assigned an alignment to an NAI opinion about day 1. even if saying "first scum" sounds like an exaggeration/joke from profii. not the biggest thing but as i still haven't found anything else to chew on i'm fine with it, and profii's posting in general doesn't have townvibes so far. it's really not a big read, but since i didn't elaborate before i get why you're asking.

But you agreed with his reasoning here:

Nobody is a fan of day 1.

Yet we all have to do it

So I find it really frustrating in every other game I play when someone comes in and goes "Day one? Nope"

It's not fair on all the other players

+1
i'm fine with day 1 because the first step for me in understanding how to read someone is getting a feel for how they play and think.

(3) Could you clarify.

(4) What do you think of JTB's scum reads?
(5) What do you think of Aaron's play so far and the contradiction I mentioned above (and am going to subsequently respond to)?

1: the way he announces what he's going to do (that he's not into the game yet, that he now is, that he's asking an arbitrary question specifically to get discussion, that he's voting because votes get the game going.
2: i have not.
3: wasn't agreeing with the reasoning for the vote in 54, was agreeing with the notion that players should participate day 1 in a general opinion way. yes, players should participate day 1 and it's silly to think you can bow out while relying on others to do it for you, but it's not AI.
4: you reminded me that JTB hasn't responded to my 64 yet. had to ISO to see who he was scumreading. JTB's play has been meh so far, i said before why the egix/profii partner conclusion feels premature.
VOTE: JTB
5: didn't like Aaron's vote there on insomnia, but the contradiction you pointed out there is not actually a contradiction. chain of events being Aaron sees the post, votes it, and then sees insomnia's walkback post and makes the (silent) decision to leave the vote there. this is followed by asking about why he has the scumread, where he references both the first post and the second as reasons for the scumread, and not necessarily for the initial vote on its own. no real opinion on his overall play yet.

[Chara]

@chara
Could you explain what you mean by "hasn't responded to my 64"? You didn't write post 64 and you don't have 64 posts so I'm at a loss to what you mean.
Also V/LA until Monday because sports but I'm not posting much anyway so that probably won't change much

meant to type my 164 , sorry.

insomnia: regarding JB, there might be more to it than i saw, but he seemed to form the conclusion from one occurence. he also called egix's fairly neutral post "throwing shade", and while he did later say he TRed profii, i didn't find asking about the votes a bad question given Egix's later explanation. don't scumread Egix, no. i also don't see earlygame scum posting exclusively to defend their partner, it's too obvious an avenue in a gamestate where starting wagons is easy.

241: a note, expecting me to obvtown every game and at all times is expecting me to effort 100%, essentially. i will when i need to (if i'm pushed and it gets bad) or when i get very invested (i'm sure it will happen, i have things to care about already.)

to the crow: you've quoted posts i've already read. they're what i referred to collectively as "bad vibes". i'm not saying there aren't reasons to scumread profii, there are and i agree. i'm just more interested in the play surrounding profii.

Egix: disagreeing with reasons to scumread someone should be a null read. unless you're scumreading the players on profii?

249: well, i'm no longer null on Egix. how is asking why Looker voted Luca or picked those names in particular a bad direction? it sounds like you have some "plan" by your last post, but i don't understand what you coulf have picked out.

[Chara]

Like maybe you could've been trying to instigate something there but it honestly seemed like you were trying to figure out whether his reaction to pressure would be personality indicative or alignment indicative which is +town points for you

Why though? I think this is a... what do you call it? Flimsy trust tell?

Again, just because he asked if Wimpy's easily falling to pressure doesn't mean that :

a) He's not gonna push him
b) He's actually gonna consider this at some point

Asking him if he falls easily for pressure is literally pointless here. I don't see why it's worthy of town points. It's not sorting Wimpy's role and he didn't even come to the right conclusion with regards to pressure.

I guess the best way to put it is that Alch is really methodical in his approach to what he chooses to focus on out of his own volition. The town read on me, the pressure thing with Wimpy.

Again, asking someone whether they are easily pressured is not an indicator for figuring them, since it's asked in a way that's NAI.

Realistically speaking, when are you ever going to stop pushing someone that you think is scum just because they flail as either alignment? lol

is this why Alch is scum, or an explanation for why Frost's idea doesn't make him towny?

either way, i don't quite understand the part where you talk about Alch being methodical. is that something he does in general, or are you saying him being methodical is strange this game and therefore scummy.

[Chara]

tell me, dear crow, what it is i've simplified. is your reason for scumreading profii the only valid one?

[Chara]

i do have two eyes, you know. it's a bit rude to say one doesn't exist merely because it looks a little strange.

[Chara]

actually, i think i do TR egix. i implied earlier that i was scumleaning, but i had misunderstood what 247 was saying.

[Chara]

Furthermore, One-eye has stolen a term from the scarf boy to make a case in defense of the Chimera! Yet, this One-eye does not combat scarf boy directly. It acts without conviction. Careful!

defense of profii? i scumread profii.

as for stealing a term, i'm not sure which you mean, but it is highly possible i read something Ame said and repeated it. it's a fun fact of language that humans (or nonhumans) will tend to parrot terminology recently used by others. it's how we learn the rules of our discourse.

[Chara]

This crow will not recognize the greeting of the chimera, its initial vote, or past behavior of the Chimera as valid evidence. Inadmissible!

i object. all behaviour of the chimera is valid evidence!

[Chara]

the part of my post directly after that question is what helps me, actually.

[Chara]

but not including that part, i don't consider asking a question with an NAI answer to be scummy, if that was your point.

[Chara]

I actually changed my mind on Egix and think he's town. It's hard for me to fathom that he'd actively defend villager profii here against my and chara's votes knowing that at some point in the game, he'd have to explain that defence, especially because it's his first form of contribution and it stands out.

what i meant by my townread.

Ame: i know i need to pay more attention to Frost, but i TR insomnia so i'm giving it some weight.
as for Looker, just an assumption that might be wrong, that's on me.

[Chara]

i've been annoyingly busy, but is my Aaron read relevant to the Luca/Aaron issue, Ame?
i'm also assuming Luca is the one you meant probably isn't scum, given both your eye for detail (pronoun) and what's definitely some suspicion of me.

i don't find anything the bird has posted confusing. wrong, sure, but not confusing.

[Chara]

^
you could let other players read Macabre if you can't. gimmick alts (or gimmick accounts) are common enough they're hard to avoid.
you can't, unfortunately, force anyone to play how you think they should play, and that applies to any aspect of mafia.

if you have a good TR on one or two players, you could sheep their read on the crow.

[Chara]

really hoping i have time tonight to go through this on my laptop. normally mobile suffices but Ame's style is pushing me in the direction of more focused analysis. not a bad thing, except that it forces me not to be lazy. i haven't forgotten questions directed at me.

pedit: we can agree to disagree. it's useful enough if i can't understand someone at all. if there's someone i both TR strongly and also trust the judgement of on a particular issue, it's fine with me.

[Chara]

no hydras, and playing to win condition is required. posting in a strange way isn't a rule break and he doesn't really need to do anything.

[Chara]

This crow will not recognize the greeting of the chimera, its initial vote, or past behavior of the Chimera as valid evidence. Inadmissible!

i object. all behaviour of the chimera is valid evidence!

The Knight having past experience with a good natured Chimera is unconvincing! New record!

oooh, you were talking about meta. no, i don't tend to use other player's meta without a good reason either.

[Chara]

This One-eye has taken all evidence against the Chimera and labelled it as a bad vibration, yet this is a term used by the scarf boy when they delivered valid charges against the Chimera. Kokomo!

because i used the word "vibes"?

English may be your second language, bird, but as its my native tongue i can say with much confidence it's a term considered fairly common.
and i still have two eyes.

[Chara]

It is this usage of mimicry which demonstrates the mindfulness and the lack of a will of this One-eye to combat the real reasons against the Chimera! Reduction! Slurp!

it's more the lack of a laptop, actually...

but i understand now. it's because i reduced the profii cases to mere "bad vibes" that i was being reductive. that may be fair. i don't have any will to combat the reasons for scumreading profii because i don't think they're bad. it was the general sentiment against the slot that i found interesting, and what made me wonder if this was merely a scum that had been caught by the combined intuitions of some townies, or a towny that had happened to incite some suspicion incidentally.
but that's off of my memory. i'll need to see if it's even valid to wonder.

[Chara]

i'm doing my best. :<

[Chara]

@chara I meant you, I was just hesitant to use 'it'. i don't think it's likely you're scum with Aaron, particularly for the post i found telling of his alignment (288). Unlikely scumate would interject I think.

ah, i see. glad i asked then. i'll still answer as soon as i'm able.

and you can use 'they' if you don't like 'it'. :>

[Chara]

i came in wondering why we were ending the day and then scrolled up.

i am genuinely sorry, Frost. that's got to hurt.

[Chara]

All people on Luca wagon should be evaluated tomorrow.

If this is a jester then omegalul

assuming you're kidding, but this is a normal game.

[Chara]

So you scumread Alch because he came to the conclusion that you don't respond poorly to pressure which you later responded saying that you don't respond well to it.

Was it the question in 49 that pinged you? Because I could definitely see that coming from scum if he wanted to try and instigate something.

The way the second question is formed makes me believe he’s scum with Alch. He’s basically giving Wimpy a reason to vote him and Alch never picked up on it.

I also find it hard that he’d actually ever say this if Alch was flipping town, here. Sadly.

This is way too reckless posting for a self-aware scum unless he knew he wouldn’t have to face any heat because the person he’s leaning scum to is his scum buddy.

i read this the opposite way, in that it's too reckless to post if Alch is his partner. it's hard to imagine a scum Frost who posts that in the scum PT digging through and giving reasons for his partner to be scum, unless he really thinks it's a bad enough reason to not get traction.

you do have a point i agree with more about Alch not reacting to this.

[Chara]

Am I allowed to post tables (Excel image)? I'm not sure about screen shot rules and what not.

i've seen players get in trouble for things like posting a sound file of their own voice talking about the game (out of game communication) and for posting screenshots of their own gamenotes for the same reason.
i personally think a screenshot of a table in excel is completely fine since it would have no identifying features or "proof" of anything, but you could ask the mod to be sure it's fine.

probably obvious, but it's almost assured Luca is town given Frost posting that when he did, i think. unless i'm misremembering/skimmed and the Frost v. Luca was not as serious as it seemed to be.

[Chara]

why wouldn't he be giving his scumbuddy a reason to hop on town? faking interactions (convincing, negotiating) is "interacting with a scumpartner publicly" 101. it's not really comparable to giving town reasons to hop on his scumbuddy.

pedit: i also agree Macabre isn't cleared just from that. it's not hard to give a throwaway meme TR on a scumbuddy.

you know, this reminds me of my favourite topic. day 1 scum lynches lose games. Frost's scumflip is our ticket to losing this one, everyone.

pedit again: that comparison is even worse. i've seen scum do the thing you're saying they never do as well. people are too variable to make blanket statements like "scum will absolutely never do this thing". at best you can say it makes them being partners more unlikely.

pedit: FROST

[Chara]

it's so strange how Frost being confirmed scum and insomnia's reaction to it has completely eroded the strong TR i had there.

[Chara]

Chara I don’t believe you actually think you’d be losing the game. Thought you were our saviour.

I’ll go at you tomorrow as well if I have the privilege of staying alive.

You sound way more pissed than Wimpy here because I’m clearing a lot of people that you are looking at as mislynchable or what’s the issue?

i'm looking forward to it.

clearing a bunch of players immediately because of one scumflip is exactly the sort of thing people do whenever there's a day 1 scum lynch. and these conclusions are often wrong because they're formed from such a tiny sample size. so the town collectively gets overconfident and starts treating these conclusions as gospel as the game goes on, getting off track instead of redoubling their efforts/stopping to reconsider after failing and being handed a townflip.
if you're town, you're being far too quick to make such conclusions and you're running a high from Frost slipping and all of the delicious info you now have. unfortunately, this scenario is actually worse than a scum lynch, since we even lack the complete wagon information.
if you're scum... well, it would explain why i'm disagreeing with you all of a sudden.

pedit: admittedly, i hadn't considered that you're rushing because you have a strong belief you're going to die. if that's the case, however, then why post 457? don't you want more than an hour to do your analysis before you leave this world?

[Chara]

don't get me wrong. we have a scum dead, essentially. that's not bad on its own. it only means we need to maintain the same level of analysis we had going in instead of getting all happy with ourselves because Frost slipped and insomnia's the one who caught him.

the more i think about Frost's slip post, the less i believe you could be bussing him, though. so it's probably the first scenario. i do still wonder why there's a need to rush.

[Chara]

of course we should consider it. it's just not a good idea to take one single post and declare someone conftown from it. basically ever, really.

[Chara]

you were already scumreading Alch, so when Frost is confirmed scum, you look at Frost's post and say "Frost must be scum with this guy, you don't make a post like this towards town". i say i consider it evidence in the opposite direction, and you tell me i may as well make the conclusion that Wimpy must be town if i'm going to think Alch is town from it. i read that as you dismissing my opinion outright in a jokingly comparative manner, but now i'm a little concerned you actually think that if Alch is town Wimpy also must be town, full stop.

i'm not

mad

, and i'm not saying you just ignore flipped scum or confirmed scum on day 1 or what have you. i'm saying to be critical about it. if i thought i was 95% going to be nightkilled i wouldn't be telling everyone to gogogo with the lynch if there's analysis to be done.
and on a larger note it's a call for the rest of the game to avoid becoming complacent. i've always been a somewhat amusing proponent of the "day 1 scum lynches are bad", theory, and i'm frankly excited to now be in a situation where its ramifications can be tested.

[Chara]

It's so hard to envision the fact someone gets pissed at an essentially locked town read of theirs after they start analysing a confirmed scum. They'd actually debate and shit. You just flat out denied them and scum read me for clearing people.

when did i get pissed at you? i was debating. i gave my opinion on your conclusion about Alch, and about Macabre when i said i've seen scum make those sorts of posts about their partners so i didn't consider it clearing.

i did get a kneejerk scumread from disagreeing with you, but it didn't last when i remembered the fact you were the reason Frost was being wagoned in the first place, and why i had TRed you in the first place. you can disbelieve that it wasn't on my mind at the time i posted the scumread (i understand it seems like a stretch), but if i do get lynched (over confirmed scum would be pretty wild even for me, but if Ame's pushing it it feels possible enough), you'll have learned a fun fact about my fickle memory.

you keep saying i've gotten angry when i haven't gotten angry at all. i was having fun and got excited. you, on the other hand, have been very angry, in a way that i know is justified even if i didn't agree with you.

[Chara]

you didn't hammer me without letting me claim, did you?

[Chara]

while i was asleep? that's cold, even if you do scumread me.

[Chara]

yeah, i have two whole votes. nice try though?

[Chara]

You cherry picked this out of all my posts? ok.

er, i can only respond to one thing at a time. is there some better thing i should have talked about first that would satisfy you, insomnia?

pedit: about hammering Frost? i see. i hadn't read previous pages and didn't know where i was at.

[Chara]

I didn't mean gets pissed. but it's okay. you'll fight harder.

i hope wimpy's right and i suck at the game

so i can tunnel you tomorrow

p-edit : i was talking about aaron, not you.

you did mean gets pissed. you've been saying i've been some variation of angry/pissed since last nice. i can quote it if you like! what did you mean if not that?

i would really rather not be tunneled tomorrow. it'd be nicer to just deal with this today.

[Chara]

i don't pre-filter my thoughts either. that's why i posted my scumread on you. after thinking about it i realized it didn't make sense.

i might need to reread for what my agenda was in scumreading you. a discredit, i think? i understand there are plenty of scum who would want to do that and why, and so unfortunately all i can say is i'm too overcautious as scum to think any part of last night would be a good idea.

does the 180 make sense if you consider it from a point of view that wasn't thinking about how you were the main force driving Frost?

[Chara]

No I probably am wrong and suck.

i think insomnia is very very town, but i don't think you're wrong (and i won't take back that part of my argument, either) that clearing anyone off of one flip is dangerous. obviously it informs reads and is good to point out, just not as "conftown" or "confscum".

[Chara]

i do still wonder why there's a need to rush.

of course we should consider it. it's just not a good idea to take one single post and declare someone conftown from it. basically ever, really.

Seems to me like you're more pissed at the fact I'm clearing obvtown that looks mislynchable as fuck from your perspective, that's what these post reflect.

You're more mad at the fact I'm clearing people than me making my analysis.

There's no way you're getting your jimmies rustled by me *rushing* things. What's the difference between me doing this right now and me doing it the next day phase??? I'd come to the same conclusion. Just because there's a different day, the information doesn't change, and my analysis of it doesn't either.

But what changes is that I can't clear your allocated mislynch pool when I'm dead and can't argue with you on it.

how about addressing this, chara? instead of cherry picking stuff.

can you stop calling it cherry picking? now i actually am getting annoyed. i'm so sorry that the first post from you i saw that prompted me to say something wasn't

valid

enough.

[Chara]

no. it doesn't make sense either way.

the fact you had a strong tr on me and then forgot i was the driving force behind aaron's lynch is telling me you also tmi'd me.

it doesn't make sense because of my #503 that I'd like you to address. you have two contradictory reasons for scum reading me there, please explain. One's for "rushing things" the other is "clears people based on one post"

the latter one being solid scum mentality, textbook 101 mafia scum.

the strong TR was from how you handled Alchemist's Wimpy question early on. the "okay, he's very unlikely scum" thought comes with the remembering you were responsible for Frost.

503 i'll address now.
why do those two things contradict each other? i thought it was strange that you wanted to do postflip analysis but also wanted to rush at the same time, and your clearing did seem rushed.

[Chara]

you..... literally cut off the second half of the sentence. are you kidding me, insomnia?

[Chara]

Vigi shoot alch please, truuuuuust

Cop check JB / profii.

That’s it, speed lynch Aaron and set his soul free.

because you posted this, insomnia. christ.

[Chara]

yeah, because it's a reason for scum reading me. What's the issue?

is it town reasoning or

doing post-flip analysis is not why i was scumreading you! it's because you did it for an hour and then told the thread to speedlynch Frost! there are two halves of the sentence you quite literally cut out of my post.

i'm still going to respond to 503 and then i'm taking a break, because the fact i'm getting annoyed means anything i say further won't be especially useful and will just be me continuing to argue with you.

[Chara]

You're saying it like those two things combined would make a townie reasoning. it doesn't.

your push contradicts it, because you stated you felt like I rushed stuff for no reason and then, from your 487, the real reason for scum reading me is because i was clearing people...based on post-flip analysis.

when's that ever a town thought? you either agree / disagree with it.

because you were clearing them too quickly. it felt rushed. i said it before, if i think i'm going to be dead when night comes i like to take my time with things. that's what i thought was weird. i get that you were confident in your conclusions but at the time it seemed like you were forming them too quickly.

[Chara]

i do still wonder why there's a need to rush.

of course we should consider it. it's just not a good idea to take one single post and declare someone conftown from it. basically ever, really.

Seems to me like you're more pissed at the fact I'm clearing obvtown that looks mislynchable as fuck from your perspective, that's what these post reflect.

You're more mad at the fact I'm clearing people than me making my analysis.

There's no way you're getting your jimmies rustled by me *rushing* things. What's the difference between me doing this right now and me doing it the next day phase??? I'd come to the same conclusion. Just because there's a different day, the information doesn't change, and my analysis of it doesn't either.

But what changes is that I can't clear your allocated mislynch pool when I'm dead and can't argue with you on it.

you're not a single player. even if your analysis doesn't changes, there are others in the game that exist, and your analysis could change based on that. it could also change based on responses to your analysis. you don't get any of that if you end the day after making your conclusions.
i'm not saying to wait until day 2, that would be... well, stupid. what i was saying was to spend more time on day 1.
and as for my 487... that's still true, sorry. you can TR it all you like, it's still just going to be a TR.

[Chara]

so, what does it tell you if I rush it? why's it scum indicative, especially if I know I'm not dying as scum and have time to post? Especially when I'm literally confirmed, or at least like 90% cleared and am not getting any heat for the next few dayphases?

your common sense flopped there if you're town and it's not really my fault, you snapped at me without any reason. I don't know why you made such a big deal out of it

it's

not

scum indicative. i thought it was. i corrected myself minutes after. i can't argue this anymore when i can only tell you what i was thinking at the time. it just stood out to me at the time, that i was disagreeing and so i posted about it without thinking too hard.

and again, i did not snap at you. i don't believe i posted anything angry/frustrated/pissy last night. i got excited due to Frost slipping and due to "scum lynches lose games", so i responded.

[Chara]

i called you town in 485. did you mention the wrong post?

[Chara]

Your switch on stances is unnatural, as in...You aren't emotionally consistent.

If you were truly triggered and saw a scum motive in my quick analysis or whatever your reason was (doesn't really matter for this demonstration)

you don't just switch your read on me in the next few posts.

i did, though. i realized as i was posting about it that i was wrong. which is what 485 was. 487 i had come back around to "okay, so he's town, i still think he needs to be more critical."

[Chara]

man, I need to sit down and see what you two are arguing about

honestly i would... not recommend it. i can barely follow it. but by all means.

[Chara]

i really hate doing something like this.

i have legitimate memory issues and i always have. i will go through old games for examples if you need them. this isn't an AI thing and you can scumread me for it because it's entirely possible to you i'm scum and just forgot that i had said i was townreading you.
but i'd like you to be aware i could also have forgotten as town, and in this case did.

[Chara]

for the record i have, as scum, forgotten important things and made stupid mistakes from that.
though as scum i am usually much more careful about combing my own ISO to avoid that exact thing.

you're right that it was really stupid. ahaha.

[Chara]

i thought you might have been joking about the jester thing, considering this is a normal. i didn't consider it AI.

[Chara]

All people on Luca wagon should be evaluated tomorrow.

If this is a jester then omegalul

assuming you're kidding, but this is a normal game.

[Chara]

and i am really embarrassed. i swear i'm not this awful at mafia as a whole.

[Chara]

on the crow: i TL the slot for reasons unrelated to Frost. i'm unconvinced that Frost definitely wouldn't pick his scum partner for his random 100% TR read to start off the game, but if i had to choose it does seem less likely than picking a random townie.

i also found Wimpy's response to things (saying you aren't locked town in an annoyed way) to be more towny than not, because i find the likelihood of him choosing to buddy me there pretty low.

[Chara]

#476 doesn't come from town Chara.

Regarding PR, Chara is more likely to be so. Aarons "slip" likely wasn't
a slip. It was meant to cut things short and add credibility to the the idea that he wasn't scum with Chara which was the goal of his "defense" post against me (any attempt to further "spew" Chara).

Also lynching Chara gives us the chance to build a proper wagon. And a potential ML that Chara and Wimpy so desire.

I didn't complete the conclusion of why Aaron likely isn't a PR. Because his slip was likely intentional, his role likely wasn't worth fighting for.

I’d rather get the confscum out of the way in case he’s a PR.

Ohhh, I thought this meant "... in case {Chara is} a (town) PR" at first.

Yeah, why didn't Aaron make any effort to try and cover up the slip? Something does seem off about that. I can imagine scumPR!Aaron not giving up so easily.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Chara

I'll take you up on this, Ame.

was Frost's lynch definitely a foregone conclusion, enough for him to fake a slip?

[Chara]

that was Ame's argument, Wimpy.

[Chara]

insomnia: if you could tell me what you think of Wimpy i'd be interested.
also wondering where you're at in general, Wimpy.

[Chara]

I think Chara is a high-level scum player who thinks multiple steps ahead and is capable of slipping into the town mindset as if it were a sweater!

i'm flattered, but this is absolutely not true. i don't play chess. my strength as scum is likeability and sticking to plays that are objectively "correct" as well as safe.

if you dislike self-meta (even with proof) that's absolutely fine, but the option is there. i know i could simply havw improved.

[Chara]

given Frost's apparent lack of confidence, i think giving up from that feels in character. it's really hard to pull a Flavor Leaf and come back from a PT slip.

[Chara]

i'm thinking more about the assertion that i'm high-level and capable of putting myself into a town thought process.

i don't know how what's actually occurred in this game leads to that conclusion. town thought process, sure, though Ame's case also relies on me then

not

doing that and slipping into a scum thought process when deciding to discredit insomnia.

just... being called high-level scum has happened to me before. it's just normally it happens when we are in lategame and i've been a consensus TR for a while and players are wondering if i'm the deep scum.
it doesn't normally happen after the frankly embarrassing mess that was my calling insomnia scum.

[Chara]

Yes you need to elaborate, because this looks like you’re just making an easy jump onto my wagon.

Ah, but then it would be too soon...

were you going to elaborate on your Alch vote today?

[Chara]

so you believe me about the memory issues, but... you don't believe me about the memory issues? it being salient because i was focused on it earlier doesn't mean anything to later. my 414 happened 7 hours before my next stream of posts (i just checked.).

and as for Looker, you had asked about her directly and asked for my thoughts. it was incredibly easy to look at the post of mine you were talking about, look at Looker's post, and recall my thoughts.

i have issues with short term memory and trouble focusing. reminders serve me well when remembering things, and for Looker this was easy. when i started posting about and to insomnia after Frost's slip, it was without checking my ISO or going back enough to be reminded of insomnia's role in the lynch. as i spoke to him it was easy enough to be reminded.

[Chara]

I still feel safe with alch, he's not towning it up.

i have some experience with Alch, but not enough to know what to expect from him.

what do you think of the timing of his vote on Frost?

[Chara]

being intuitive and socially competent + having an eye for detail is not the same thing as being a planner or a mastermind. you are right in that i am the former. but i at least understand your point.

as for the rest, i guess it's fine to think that way. i believe it coming from you with the explanation. it's not how i'm able to play scum, but you're probably still town. if you aren't we're definitely fucked, though. haha.

[Chara]

i'd like a response to 602 as well. going to bed i hope.

[Chara]

allow me to just... step into Luca's pocket here.

but really, this isn't exactly Monty Hall. it's more like picking a door, hearing a goat bleating on the other side of it, but then deciding you should pick one of the other doors instead.

[Chara]

it's hard to build wagons organically at this stage.

what are your reads on the three players you listed, Luca?

i don't see why it's likely scum have figured out PRs. besides that, Frost could be a scum PR himself. i know you don't think he is, but the fact remains that your purposeful slip theory is an assumption not yet proven, and your idea that scum Frost would fight harder as a PR than as a goon is also.

and: leaving Frost alive gives scum more options at night, even if he is a goon. goons can perform the nightkill.

[Chara]

oh, Luca already said it.
it's really not worth the risk. you make any tracker or watcher useless on n1.
it's also relevant to jailkeepers and roleblockers, who also have a hand in stopping kills at the source.

[Chara]

so you believe me about the memory issues, but... you don't believe me about the memory issues? it being salient because i was focused on it earlier doesn't mean anything to later. my 414 happened 7 hours before my next stream of posts (i just checked.).

and as for Looker, you had asked about her directly and asked for my thoughts. it was incredibly easy to look at the post of mine you were talking about, look at Looker's post, and recall my thoughts.

i have issues with short term memory and trouble focusing. reminders serve me well when remembering things, and for Looker this was easy. when i started posting about and to insomnia after Frost's slip, it was without checking my ISO or going back enough to be reminded of insomnia's role in the lynch. as i spoke to him it was easy enough to be reminded.

Ame, can you reply to this?

[Chara]

i could agree on Eeveelution.

problem being i have the strangest deja vu involving a previous game with Eeveelution where i scumread them for that exact behaviour and was fairly confident about it. and they were town.

but i have no idea of the game nor a consistent meta for them. ignoring that i also find it lurkscum-ish.

about slipping: private topics have a different skin to public threads, at least on mafsilver. but i believe every skin does that. still, slips happen enough (that i've seen) that i don't think it's enough to say it couldn't happen. more often between private topics, i think?
but i can't think of a good reason to do that instead of bussing, either.

[Chara]

if you want to picture me looking at the thread and blinking a few times whilst rereading Ame's post, then you are picturing what i'm doing currently.
pretty much reversed the paranoia i had for them.

and i like the Egix read. joining Ame on me was a gut-ping i was really unwilling to pursue due to both personal bias and that i was very distracted by the prospect of being lynched over confscum, but on ISOing Egix i'm reminded of 249, and then the comment about Frost lolcatting. going from that to "oh, i see" upon presumably seeing the slip is a bit if a strange reaction. why ask why Frost is lolcatting in the first place, and how do you notice what that looks like?

Bartholomew i just haven't really liked.

[Chara]

good game everyone, was fun while i was here. including the part where i gave insomnia an aneurysm. sorry. :>

and thanks for modding gobble.

and Frost, that was some bad luck. i hope you know i'll be referencing this game a while to prove that it's entirely possible to slip from a private thread into the main thread.