Micro 914: CultD3 (Over)

[Hectic]

OH BOY THIS IS GONNA BE FUN

[Hectic]

GODDAMMIT IT I ROLLED TOWN AND CULT WINS THIS 80% OF THE TIME

VOTE: Farkran

LET'S GET THIS OVER WITH

[Hectic]

hehahehahahe

claiming VT on the first post?

LOCK HIM UP

[Hectic]

Dr Drew isn't in this game

>_>
<_<

JANGLE?

[Hectic]

OH NO THE SCUM HAZ CAUGHT ME

SO YOU'RE NOT CLAIMING VT?

[Hectic]

Real question; so we HAVE to lynch the cult leader right? Otherwise scum keep cropping up?

Yes, and it has very interesting implications for leader!hunting when you think someone's been recruited, but that's irrelevant till day 2.

[Hectic]

Tone of his post, was expecting exactly that.

ELABORATE

[Hectic]

Real question; so we HAVE to lynch the cult leader right? Otherwise scum keep cropping up?

Yes, and it has very interesting implications for leader!hunting when you think someone's been recruited, but that's irrelevant till day 2.

ALSO

The other cultist will sometimes act like a jester just to save their leader, especially on day 1/2

[Hectic]

Yeah i'm vt

O_o

WHY claim?

[Hectic]

I SEE THAT CARD YOU'RE PLAYING

HAVE FUN

[Hectic]

Kanna's new, and sh0s is a main unless he has something he'd like to tell me???

Does anyone have any theories for who Not A Korina Alt could be?

[Hectic]

Real question; so we HAVE to lynch the cult leader right? Otherwise scum keep cropping up?

Yes, and it has very interesting implications for leader!hunting when you think someone's been recruited, but that's irrelevant till day 2.

ALSO

The other cultist will sometimes act like a jester just to save their leader, especially on day 1/2

Spoiler:

hehahehahahe

claiming VT on the first post?

LOCK HIM UP

Dr Drew isn't in this game

>_>
<_<

JANGLE?

OH NO THE SCUM HAZ CAUGHT ME

SO YOU'RE NOT CLAIMING VT?

hehaheheHEAHAHEHAHA

I'M NO DIRTY CULTIST

THIS IS JUST MY PROCESS

[Hectic]

Who is Dr Drew?? please

Someone who has an insane streak of games in ALWAYS rolling cult leader

I get the Jangle vote now

[Hectic]

Not_Cult Leader probably wants to instant hammer L-1 towns, right?

intent to put Farkran on L-1

that's... a VERY good point actually

NO LYNCH IS EITHER TOWN OR CULT LEADER

[Hectic]

PROBABLY TOWN THOUGH

i think not mentioning that outweighs the towncred for mentioning it as the leader

also - LOVING the two wagons we got so far

[Hectic]

EXPLAIN YOURSELF

[Hectic]

SH0S

[Hectic]

FARKRAN

before we move on you NEED to clarify - WHY did you think it was a good idea to claim VT earlier?

i've liked your play other than that claim

[Hectic]

THIS IS ACCEPTABLE

Kanna's a very slight townlean so far. Poyzin's entrance seems to be NAI for

reasons

, but I WANNA HEAR MORE FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE AMAZING, POYZIN

I haven't liked what "Korina" chose to comment on when there were other more interesting things, but I agree his tone is very different to last time I played with him where he actually rolled cult

Bingle... i need to see more

SH0S

VOTE: sh0s

[Hectic]

That there's likely one scum on each of the wagons. The fact nobody really got to L-1 makes me think both scum were on either you or NL, or split, like I said. I wanted to RVS NL since the start for the reason of him making a shitty joke about no-lynch not being an option.

you think scum are more likely to put someone on L-1?

NOT FOLLOWING YOUR LOGIC, KORINA??????

Also, I still wanna powerlynch Bingle. Bingle shouldn't be allowed to survive to MyLo IMO.

EXPAND

[Hectic]

i mean not kORINA

[Hectic]

IS THIS BETTER?

[Hectic]

ok great

[Hectic]

but I WANNA HEAR MORE FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE AMAZING, POYZIN

Awww, you've inspired me! I'd recommend getting a better keyboard though so you don't accidentally hit the caps lock button as many times as you have. I'm getting shady vibes from "no lynch" the player, and the cult leader claim out of the gate left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, it obviously was a joke because you don't simply claim to be the leader of the anti-town faction. ...but that's the thing... For some reason I'm feeling that this was just a really risky scum play, to say that to appear as town by making such a blatantly false joke.

Somebody please talk some sense into me because this is definitely unreasonable... right?

Oh wow, I didn't realise someone had glued down my CAPS LOCK KEY GODDAMMIT THERE IT GOES AGAIN HAng on there we go I fixed it. Sorry.

I'd read the No lynch (who I am now nicknaming Nolly) claiming cult leader as completely NAI; I wouldn't read into it if I were you. What do you think of sh0s putting Nolly on L-1 in 69?

Also, let me know what you think of Farkran's logic of claiming VT in 81.

[Hectic]

I think it’s vaguely for the best if UTs claim D1. If we have a UT massclaim our EV shoots way up and there’s nothing scum can do to stop it. OTOH, if scum claims UT they will be found by any other or claim and both cultists have to claim.

Not UT

Is that so scum can't claim UT in the future after recruiting other town PRs?

BRILLIANT.

Unkillable ICs would be nice to have honestly. But does the roleblocker work on unrecruitables?

[Hectic]

As far as I can tell, they can't be roleblocked and they actually seem a lot stronger than the other PR combinations, since they're so good for PoE when you get to Lylo (which they always will).

I don't think they should claim today, since in order for 2 cultists to pull off a double fakeclaim as 2 UTs, they would need to have recruited BOTH town PRs. So we definitely don't need to out any possible UTs on day 1; let cult have the potential of failing their recruit.

[Hectic]

If the UTs exist, they can just claim tomorrow with no harm after they've possibly blocked a recruit. There's no setup with just 1 UT, so the cultists can't fakeclaim double UT before day 3, since they can only do that if they've recruited both PRs. Hope that makes sense.

[Hectic]

Therefore, we mass claim not UT on DAY 2 to prevent that, rather than day 1.

There's no harm in waiting a day before doing so for the reasons I've already given.

[Hectic]

I claim not UT.

Sigh

[Hectic]

If the UTs exist, they can just claim tomorrow with no harm after they've possibly blocked a recruit. There's no setup with just 1 UT, so the cultists can't fakeclaim double UT before day 3, since they can only do that if they've recruited both PRs. Hope that makes sense.

As far as I can tell, it was optimal to mass claim tomorrow rather than today because of the above, but it's too late for that now. I didn't realise Bingle had already claimed also, I thought his "not UT" was correcting his previous post.

I'm also Not UT.

[Hectic]

SH0S YOU'RE C0NFUSED

VOTE: Salamence
Hey, Salsa, what's your opinion of Bungle pushing massclaiming not UT, and do you think it was put forward with good intentions?

[Hectic]

@Farkran: I see what you mean there, I hadn't considered the scenario where cult claim double UT while knowing there are other PRs that WILL counterclaim them. This is more fine then.

[Hectic]

Lul, Kanna's been a UTR in every game I've played in. Kanna, what's your opinion of Korina's read on Poyzin's recent post, and do you agree/disagree?

ALSO

I think we should move out of the setup spec. Anyone who hasn't already claimed not UT should do so now, otherwise, I'm seeing any UT claims on day 2 onward as scumclaims.

[Hectic]

I think we should move out of the setup spec. Anyone who hasn't already claimed not UT should do so now, otherwise, I'm seeing any UT claims on day 2 onward as scumclaims.

btw if anyone is a UT they should claim non-UT too, imo

You're joking, right?

Please do not lie here, it defeats the whole purpose of the massclaim, and do not be surprised if you claim UT later and aren't believed by anyone if you choose to do this. Lying here gives scum an opportunity to fakeclaim later while saying "oh, I lied at the time to gambit because I wanted scum to recruit me."

I repeat: A UT claim from day 2 onwards is a scum claim.

[Hectic]

It's too late now though, enough people have claimed not-UT for scum to recruit between them; it's better if we finish what we started now rather than give scum the opportunity of fake claiming day 2.

Look at the setup table, sh0s, particularly at the rows in column C with 1 PR and 1 VT. If scum recruit that PR, they can claim double UT with no consequence on day 2 if we're in either of those setups.

[Hectic]

Lul, Kanna's been a UTR in every game I've played in.

Have you played with Kanna scum?

Only this game.

AM I RIGHT, KANNA?

Actually, could I hear your read on Bengle so far?

[Hectic]

Nolly, does "Not Townread" equate to Null?

Korina, why do you consider it scummy for someone to not call you Korina? As far as I can tell, people were playing along with your gimmick of obviously not being Korina.

[Hectic]

Also, but don't you guys think the cult leader is probably trying to seem townie rn? Lurker/not advancing conversation more likely cultists

It depends on the player. Last time I played a cultist setup, the cult leader played very passively and tried to stay out of the spotlight.

[Hectic]

Oh wait. Nolynch is egix.

Uhh, definitely not after a quick ISO skim of Egix from my recent newbie with him.

[Hectic]

If we're all doing reads lists, I've got a townread on Farkran, townleans on Nolly, Bongle. Korina confuses me, but I townread his tone. I'm undecided on Kanna; need to see more. Sh0s, Poyzin, and Salsa have most potential for cult right now.

[Hectic]

Also, I'm about to get off for the night before I start cursing some more and/or get banned for it.

Lul, people get away with far worse.

Let me know why you townread Kanna when you have the time.

[Hectic]

I'm gonna go ahead and call the not korina alt town based on the long series of posts in page 6. First townread is first

Reasoning for this?

[Hectic]

VOTE: Sh0s

SH0S

[Hectic]

I'm trying to be a UTR so that I get recruited, JANGLE. You're not helping

[Hectic]

People though I was on L-1 & I was not hammered -> scum was on my wagoon.

Nolly, let me tell you something:
Any competent scum would double and triple check the votes before hammering someone if they thought they were on L-1. I instantly checked and knew it wasn't L-1 for one.

It's naive thinking to assume there's definitely 1 in 3 scum in your wagon just because sh0s put a fake L-1 out.

@sh0s: Was the fake L-1 intentional or not?

[Hectic]

Not A Korina Alt: Firstly, I don't like that her name and posts say two different things. I am not sure which one to trust. Well, it's NAI I guess.

Wait, what.

IS THIS A SERIOUS READ, NOLLY?

[Hectic]

Nolly, all your posts about Not Korina being Korina, and female dogs, are in jest, correct?

[Hectic]

3) That is the only read I have thus far stated, yes. I don’t like talking about null reads, and the best argument I’ve read about a lynch candidate is Korina’s points on ”no łynch”.

This is not an excuse, this is simply admitting that I haven’t been very helpful in terms of reads as I don’t have any posts talking about my own. Hectic and Kanna I feel are town, but that isn’t helpful in itself if I don’t provide any evidence for my reasoning, which I haven’t yet done.

And why exactly are you not providing reasoning on Kanna and I being town? Even loose uncertain thoughts are fine.

[Hectic]

Top tier are naturally townie imo,
Farkran is townie, but I feel like it's more of a ~conscious~ townie

I like this. I think it's NAI for Farkran to tryhard/explain his thought process to look like town, but Kanna picking up on this is a good sign.

[Hectic]

COOL

Have I played with your main before, Nolly?

[Hectic]

If you wanna see Scum!Me, look at Newbie 1949. If you wanna know what I know to be Scum!Me, ask.

What would you be doing right now if you were the cult leader?

[Hectic]

@Nolynch are you willing to vote poyzin with me? I really don't like those kind of prodges

VOTE: poyzin

Nolly, why did you sheep Farkran in the above post considering-

Farkran:I have already played with him one game under my alt and I am very paranoid of him. Too towny to be town. I need to check out scum games of his before making a read here.

you hold this opinion of him in your reads list?

And what was your read on Poyzin at that point?

[Hectic]

Shos feels a bit better than he did early in the game.

DISAGREE

Sh0s feels off to me for several reasons. His early play was having a strong opinion and debating about something stupid, which gives him townie points in theory for genuinity, but is something which is much easier to fake for scum. Plus, I just don't understand the reasoning he was going about here:

I think it’s vaguely for the best if UTs claim D1. If we have a UT massclaim our EV shoots way up and there’s nothing scum can do to stop it. OTOH, if scum claims UT they will be found by any other or claim and both cultists have to claim.

VOTE: Bingle
I think this is the first talk worthy thing in the game. Such claim would really be stupid for cult as that would put them in a 1v1 with a real UT. It makes all sorts of sense that if scum ever come to claim, they'll claim VT or a PR to draw PRs out or something. Therefore, this post is, most likely, coming from a cultist which is not the cult leader.

Seems shallow to scumread Bangle based on him openly suggesting what he things is an anti-town strategy as a cultist. Scum very rarely push what they know is an anti-town strat with the intention of pushing it through in my experience.
He improved a little after that as he started throwing some reads out.

Question
If we have col A or C, then basically we just have to Lynch the leader and town can't lose?

But then this post comes along. If you lynch cult leader day 1, you win in any of the setups. Because all PRs claim the next day. If there's a counterclaim, you lynch all PRs and win. If there's no counterclaim, you lynch everyone but the PRs and win. The Cop + VT setup is fine as well, even if there's only 1 PR, since that PR checks people each night. The Jailkeeper + VT setup is the only one that isn't an autowin I think

Reason I'm saying all this is that it shows sh0s didn't put a lot of thought into the question he was asking. Recently, I've been noticing these kinda helpful looking questions thrown out a lot more often from scum than town, while not attempting to think/answer it themselves.

@Pedit: Thoughts, sh0s?

[Hectic]

I simply missed the daytalk thing. Assume I didn't know and reread that, it'll make much more sense lol

Isn't daytalk assumed in games nowadays? I don't remember the last time I saw a game without daytalk for scum.

[Hectic]

Preemptive prod recieved and treasured. Was busy yesterday; I'll get to this later today.

[Hectic]

I have returned.

@Kerset: I believe you need to replace Salamence with ObviousScum in the most recent VC. Thanks and keep up the great work!

Done!

[Hectic]

sh0s sh0s sh0s

I'm gonna do some research and check this daytalk case.

ObviousScum has one of the worst openings I've ever seen. The RVS vote at this stage putting someone on L-1

in this setup

, and then that proposition... We don't even need to discuss that strat though, because it defeats the purpose of playing the game and is anti-fun. I was slightly surprised to find no rule in this game's rule-set of this sort:

"Play to your current win condition."

I get you think you might be drawing out a cultist to claim, but that's obviously not happening because no one here is braindead. If it was a joke, I give it a 6/10. Have you read anything yet?

[Hectic]

It's a game, we can choose how to play it. The setup allows for 7/9 people to win with the cult if we play it correctly starting day 1. I think executing a joint win, that allows for up to 8/9 to possibly win depending on the setup configuration, actually sounds pretty fun. It's like having a guaranteed town victory in a 7-2 setup, with the perk that this way we also get to summon cthulhu! What's not to like?

We don't get to actually play the game? I don't know about you, but I play mafia for fun first, and to win second.

[Hectic]

Why'd you vote for Nolly?

[Hectic]

I'm feeling pretty damn good about sh0s!cult, I think. I don't know why you'd view him as normal cultist more over CL; different players have different ways of playing CL to whoever said that. Maybe fake town-slipping and being strongly opinionated in early setup spec is sh0s' way of playing it.

@sh0s: You moderated a game here before your hiatus, and use daytalk, and don't mention it as a particularly special thing. It's not written standalone in your rules, and you don't remind scum they can daytalk in either of the mafia PTs. Gives me the impression that you know it's a given, and doesn't need mentioning.

[Hectic]

Disclaimer:

I will be off-meta in this game (I will, for example, be doing reads). Don't use information gathered in this game for reading my meta.

Huh. Why'd you sub your main in?

[Hectic]

@Hectic: Please do, by all means, try to convince yourself in your argument. When you've done the research - return to me and try to read my mind 2 years ago, lol. waste of time.

Lul, these are some insane games you've modded; I'll give you that.
Was daytalk in this one? https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 9#p7824894
I can't see any mention of it.

[Hectic]

People who town read Kanna: do you know her meta?

Yeah, and she's been consistent with that game so far (VT).

[Hectic]

What do you think of sh0s, Bla?

[Hectic]

Wow, am I that forgettable?

[Hectic]

Obum, why is Kanna town and I specifically non-CL? How do you differentiate?

SH0S YOU'RE WEIRD
I need to meta check you again.

[Hectic]

Where you at, Poyzin? Why is Nolly (now Bla) "probably a cultist but not sure about cult leader"?

[Hectic]

Why are you so fond of that play, sh0s?

[Hectic]

Ugh, Korina's making me doubt him again. Their whole profile revolves around being "Obvious" and "Blatant" scum, I've seen Bla for one do this in many other games too. Treating it as AI with this kind of certainty:

Therefore, you are scum, and you must die. I'm not arguing this any further.

We lynch Blatant today, and Obvious tomorrow.

I really don't like.

[Hectic]

Poyzin, my piazza, could we get a reads list from you?

[Hectic]

I went to go find my reads from a Jingle's game, and D1, I was scumreading shos, who was town at that point. I'm willing to operate under the assumption for today that shos is actually town, and me scumreading him means he's town.

This is really bad reasoning. You need to look at the reasons you were scumreading him then and the reasons you're scumreading him now. Tell us what those are.

[Hectic]

It's that post I just snipped that quote from, sh0s.

[Hectic]

I'm scumreading you because I feel like you're scum, but I have this lingering feeling that me scumreading you is actually indicative of Town!You. I haven't read the games back yet to confirm my suspicion of that, but until I do, I'm staying there on this.

What, this? If there's "scummy" traits sh0s is displaying here which he was also doing in that game, that makes sense. But if it's just because he's a scumread, I don't really get that.

[Hectic]

You aren't really reading the thread, are you?
VOTE: Kanna
So easy
Hectic and I have been talking about this for many posts

Why is it scum-indicative for Kanna to not be reading the thread/missing things?

[Hectic]

Eh, I can put NKorina aside for now. I want to vote for sh0s or Poyzin depending on what Poyzin does when coming back.

[Hectic]

I'm starting to get the impression Jangle could be chainsaw defending sh0s after distancing early on. Why'd you spend the first half of the day voting him and asking people "why sh0s?", Bengle?

Also, please give reasons for scum!me other than "his behaviour indicates he's trying to look like town", or at least show posts which indicate what gives you that impression.

[Hectic]

Poyzin's lack of activity recently is NAI, since it's consistent elsewhere on site, but still, we need to hear a lot more from him.

[Hectic]

Attacking your scum buddy's attackers. In this case Bongle is attacking Kanna and I.

[Hectic]

Lul, why would you claim, Korina? Now instead of Poyzin being basically guaranteed cultist tomorrow, we won't know who to trust out of you/Poyzin, since either of you is a fine recruit for the CL. You did this because you want a possibility of being culted, didn't you? Sumuh. Poyzin rolestopping you doesn't make any sense whatsoever, so not sure where you're going with that, why would he want to rolestop the tracker?

That aside, why are you guys voting Bungle over Sh0s?

[Hectic]

Oh, nvm that. I misinterpreted how rolestopper works; I thought it prevented your target from acting at all, rather than protecting your target from any actions. Ignore me, Korina.

[Hectic]

Call it gut, but I'm thinking sh0s is lot more likely to flip CL than Bingle. The "fake" townslips are a lot more useful to pull as a CL, and Bangle really hasn't felt like he's playing like a CL recently. If he's scum, it's likely with sh0s as his leader in the way he set that daychat case up and then revealed it was completely invalid - it's a strange strat that both distances from your buddy while actually not making them look scummy upon the revelation, and might even give them a psychological "boost" in towniness when you reveal the case was a ploy. Kanna trying to break our pseudo-mason pact is interesting, but paranoia is slightly town-indicative when scum!her doesn't really have any reason to cast suspicious on me at this late stage of the day - knowing I'm not really a viable mislynch. Now's not the time, but I'd like to hear what you've found different in my solving/tone on D2, Kanna.

[Hectic]

As far as I know, Jingle correctly setup-specs as both alignments.

[Hectic]

His "Holy shit, that's an amazing gambit" post was crazy town.

Why couldn't he just have been happy the case was BS as scum?

[Hectic]

Out of curiosity, If shos is town, who is my theoretical partner?

sh0s in independently scummy of you, if you're getting the impression I'm only voting him because I think it's exactly you+sh0s.

To humour your question though, if he's town and you're scum, Bla makes the most sense with you, I think. But sh0s town makes you a lot townier too.

[Hectic]

@all: why not shos?

@shos: what’s with the abundance of fake ass townslips?

@Bingle i did not understand your post

Shos has been scum in two recently completed games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81377
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=81331

One of which I modded. Both featured daychat, and he expressed no surprise over this in either. There is no similar towngame where he expresses the belief that daychat is new or unique.

Daychat became the standard for Newbies sometime in late 2014 iirc. While it was (and still should be) considered a powerful tool for scum, it was by no means uncommon. Shos's argument that he was unaware of daychat being regular rings hollow, especially in the light of the fact that in the time frame of 6 months prior to his expressed date of absence through today I can remember two or three games that didn't have day chat total (Coincidentally, all games I modded).

His lie is both provable and easily proven, and further I expect he knew that I would prove it, which begs the question of WHY he was lying in the first place. My instinct is that it points to him as CL because it came AFTER I discussed the CL not using a too wolfy to be a wolf strategy and in conjunction with: These posts come across as forced townslips.

Also, he's overly self conscious about how he's seen in posts like 320, he seems more interesting in discrediting reads than building his own like in 322, and he also lied in a pretty obvious manner in 328.

Plus, there's this weird silence when I try to get people to talk about him.

Though actually, Jongle exposing sh0s' fake townslips makes him+sh0s as CL kinda unlikely. That's not part of the invalidated case and probably gave everyone a worse impression of sh0s with how Bangle links to all of them in the second post.

[Hectic]

Disclaimer:

I will be off-meta in this game (I will, for example, be doing reads). Don't use information gathered in this game for reading my meta.

Why did you decide to make reads for this game?

[Hectic]

Compromise and vote for sh0s then, Bingle.

[Hectic]

I don't get how you get those teams specifically tbh. Like, why is OS/Bingle there but not BS/Bingle? Similarly, why is Bingle/Kanna there, but not Hectic/Kanna?

Anyway, I've come round to Bongle probably being town here, but I still want to lynch sh0s.

[Hectic]

Interesting.... many possibilities just cropped up. This is really good actually.
Sh0s is not the CL, no reason for him to CC someone as CL while Bingle was the lynch today. Bingle as the CL and sh0s as cultist just went up massively. Sh0s CCing to get himself/Poyzin lynched instead of Bingle could be a last ditch effort to save his CL.
If sh0s speaks the truth, Poyzin+Farkran is also a possibility given how Poyzin gave Farkran so much towncred when he claimed.
I'll be back later to reread stuff, for now, don't go hammering Jongle just yet.

[Hectic]

sh0s, why would you vote Poyzin?

[Hectic]

If Poyzin is scum and in column B, I have no idea why he'd claim town rolestopper over town tracker. If the actual setup is B2 - Town Jailkeeper + Town Friendly Neighbour, the Rolestopper claim is CONFIRMED to be false, since there is no Rolestopper + Jailkeeper, and and Rolestopper + Friendly Neighbour setups.

sh0s a LOT more likely to be lying here, unless Poyzin didn't understand the potential consequences of hiw fakeclaim as scum, and got lucky.

[Hectic]

Take a stance on this, Bla.

[Hectic]

I think a Jangle hammer may actually win the game lol; I don't see scum-sh0s CCing in a universe where Bangle is town, like what's the point? Would be anticlimactic but a win's a win.

[Hectic]

If Poyzin is actually rolestopper, I get culted.
If Poyzin isn't actually rolestopper, I get culted.

No matter what, I get culted.

What do you mean? If he's actually rolestopper, he stops you from being culted by targeting you tonight.

[Hectic]

If Poyzin is rolestopper, I get culted

How does this part make any sense? If he is the TOWN rolestopper, he targets you and you are still TOWN the next day. There is no scum roleblocker.

[Hectic]

Korina, this better not be tactics to stall because you want to get culted. How can you not see Jangle as CL after that sh0s claim? Especislly considering there's a lot more risk associated with Poyzin's claim if he's scum, since he Rolestopper claim could've been proven to be false if he got unlucky as scum and we were in B2?

Pedit: Ah, I see. Goddamit.

[Hectic]

UNVOTE: sh0s

Don't do something stupid and lynch someone who's a lot more likely to be regular cultist (sh0s/Poyzin) over massive CL-equity now (Bungle).

[Hectic]

Pedit: Hectic, let's do this: Lynch shos, I check Bingle.

Pedit: Hectic, let's do this: Lynch shos, I check Bingle.

What's the point though? If we're lynching sh0s, we think he's cultist. But the only reason he CCs here as cultist is if Bangle is his CL.

[Hectic]

Why would Bingle - shos pair vote Kanna (kinda universal townread) instead of me (Not Korina is guaranteed to join on me, Farkran/ Poyzin are OK with my lynch)? I am much easier mislynch.

I mean, I guess something else I should also consider is Bongle is town, and sh0s is CCing here knowing we're gonna assume he's trying to "save" Bangle, to get the lynch through on him. Obum is a sleeper CL here in that case.

[Hectic]

P.S; if only this was Hectic/Kanna, that’s a dream team

Lul, one day. (Or just recruit me tonight)

Also @Hectic, I’m sorry I broke our pact :c for the reasoning, maybe it’s paranoia but the town!you in my mind has a bigger presence (hence the less solvy) and is also more jokey (carefree)? Idk, but I’m kinda into my solve rn so l’m putting that to the side. Do you think I’m justified?

You're right in that I've been less jokey this game since the CAPSLOCK stuff at the start; that kinda just depends on my mood. I'm alive in 8 games right now, so that might explain the presence thing.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on these recent developments.

[Hectic]

sh0s is CCing here knowing we're gonna assume he's trying to "save" Bangle, to get the lynch through on him.

He could hammer. Bingle was L-1.

Oh yeah, that's also true.

[Hectic]

Have I played with your main, Obum?

Also, are you still in agreement with lynching Jungle then?

[Hectic]

That's... a strange vote if I'm being honest.

Farkran: sh0s claimed Freindly neighbour, Korina is mechanically confirmed tracker. One of Poyzin/sh0s is lying. I think Poyzin's a lot more likely to be telling the truth as his rolestopper claim is very risky as scum for reasons I gave earlier. Sh0s CCing as scum likely means he's trying to protect Bangle who was on L-1 at the time. That's the summary and my thoughts on it, mostly.

[Hectic]

Oh, there's a page 30.

[Hectic]

I might have accidentally found town in bangle but idk this game is confusing lol

Why is Jangle town? You were saying sh0s/Bangle earlier.

[Hectic]

I'll wait for Bengle to return to see what he has to say, but I'll be around to hammer for the next few hours.

[Hectic]

If sh0s is actually FN, he should be targeting who he townreads most OUTSIDE of NKorina (for obvious reasons).

[Hectic]

What's up with that sh0s vote, Bla?

Don't lynch shos nor poy today.

Thought you agreed earlier.

[Hectic]

@Kanna: Do you still think sh0s is town despite what I said in 660? Who's most likely to be CL for you right now?

[Hectic]

Leave your vote on Bangle for now. I'll be around for another couple of hours still.

[Hectic]

@Jingle: No stance on which of Poyzin/Sh0s is lying? And what cult!sh0s' CC would mean for who CL could be?

[Hectic]

@Kanna and anyone else who doesn't understand this:

Alright, I'll try and explain this a little better. Look at the setup table below. Let's assume Poyzin is a cultist here and knows for a fact we're in column B, since either him or his buddy are the rolecop. He knows for a fact that B1, B2, or B3 are the possible setups for this game.
Now, he decides to fakeclaim

Town Rolestopper

, but there is something very risky about this particular claim. If the real setup is Town Jailkeeper + Town Friendly Neighbour (B2), both of those roles can claim and it will be mechanically confirmed that Poyzin is the one lying.
Why? Well, have a look at the table. There is NO Town Rolestopper + Town Jailkeeper setup, nor is there a Town Rolestopper + Town Friendly Neighbour setup. Therefore, Town Rolestopper cannot exist with either of the two town PR's roles, and they will know for a fact that Poyzin's claim is fake, and that they are both town.
Therefore, Poyzin claiming Rolestopper has 1/3 chance of backfiring massively since one of the three possible setups in column B means that he will be found out immediately.
Town Friendly Neighbour or Town Tracker are both much safer claims as a result, as they cannot be proven to be false.

So as long as Poyzin realised this fact, and didn't take a

substantial

risk as scum, his claim is a lot more likely to be the truth.

CultD3 Setup

CultD3 Setup

CultD3:

	A	B	C
Mafia	Cult Roleblocker	Cult Rolecop	Cultist
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Rolestopper	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Unrecruitable Townie, Unrecruitable Townie	Town Tracker and Town Rolestopper	Unrecruitable Townie, Unrecruitable Townie

The game will be given a setup that incorporates one Cult role from the top of a column, and then two Town roles from a row below the selected Cult role. The remaining six roles will be filled in by one Cult Leader and five Vanilla Townies appropriately, to create a 2 Cult and 7 Town setup.

[Hectic]

@Hectic; ah I see what you mean. That does make sense. If we assume Poyzin is more likely telling the truth though, I can see Bingle/shos based on the cc when Bingle was lynched, but then that seems too easy. What are you thinking?

Sometimes the easiest solution is simply the correct one. Yes, I do have other theories for CLs, but Bangle has pretty great odds right now.

VOTE: Jongle
5 and a half hours till deadline. Swing in with that hammer.

[Hectic]

There's been a few arguments that Korina is playing in a manner that implies he wants to get recruited and win with cult I think. It's crossed my mind but I don't know him well enough to say that he doesn't just have a very direct approach to play I guess idk?

Yeah... that's the main reason he wanted to lynch Poyzin, because he becomes cult either way in that scenario. Last time I played a cult game with him, his PT revealed his entire strategy of playing VT revolved around him being recruited and then helping cult win. Funnily enough, he was the hidden unrecruitable VT that game, and the CL's attempt to recruit him on N1 failed.

[Hectic]

Jangle was the one modding that game, which is why Korina had the "grudge" policy lynch/vote against him at the start of the game.

Pops is pretty harsh mod when it comes to counting votes, 'I've seen her discount a vote for someone called "Llama" because the second 'L' was actually an uppercase 'I', so I better use Jengle's actual name here.

/s

VOTE: Bingle

Pedit: Ha, called it.

[Hectic]

Hectic, how do you feel about the fact that we have the power of life and death in our hands

It's plurality lynch, we could literally derail this onto anyone you wanted right now

Two votes is all it would take because 4 becomes lynch at timer

Did somebody say L-1?

Huh, are you who I think you are? Does shooting a traitor ring a bell?

Who do you want to derail this onto lul? I'm going soon.

[Hectic]

Probably not a slip; he could just mean the other PR role and is simplifying by calling it the tracker now. I'm kinda confident on sh0s being the rolecop in the way he came online, saw my arguments for why he was lying, did a half hearted catchup and then dipped without trying to refute any of them. Think he just knows he's been caught out and isn't trying to defend himself.

Go for the kill I reckon.

[Hectic]

Who did you target with your FN, sh0s?

[Hectic]

Let's not talk about it until sh0s claims.

[Hectic]

I'm have some thoughts but I'm restraining myself until I hear from the three PRs.

[Hectic]

sh0s' claim is pivotal information, regardless of his alignment here. sh0s, let's hear who you sent it to.

[Hectic]

Obum's logic is so far off, it's painful to not say anything lul.

SH0S

[Hectic]

I don't want to until sh0s claims his target.

[Hectic]

The point of waiting was to let cult!sh0s fakeclaim his FN onto one of his buddies, so he could get "confirmed", and implicate his buddy too. It's not likely but it's something sh0s could do if he thought we would believe him. You've made it explicitly clear that no one will though so there's no point now.

[Hectic]

So today, we have sh0s and Poyzin as cult. With one other cultist/CL. Two hypothetical scenarios:

DAY 2: We're at 3 cult, 5 town. We mislynch.
DAY 3: We go to 3 cult, 4 town. We have to lynch exactly the CL, or we lose.

DAY 2: We're at 3 cult, 5 town. We lynch a cultist.
DAY 3: We go to 3 cult, 4 town. We have to lynch exactly the CL, or we lose.

So we never lynch Poyzin here, because he was a town rolestopper that was culted, since sh0s is a confirmed cultist who was fakeclaiming.

The question is, why does sh0s fakeclaim Friendly Neighbour there as regular cultist? It just doesn't make any sense to me, since Bongle flipped town. I'm seriously considering if CL!him knows we'll see it as a regular cultist claim, and get passed off a non-CL. If he's a regular cultist, all it does is possibly move the lynch AWAY from Bungle, and ensure we'll never lynch him or take his reads seriously, therefore making it easier for us to lynch the CL.

[Hectic]

Out of shos vs poyzin, the only CL that makes logical sense is poyzin, because he was risking the lynch, shos wasn't. Shos is the one who might be playing the jestery CL, or a cultist wifoming to get a lynch on bingle followed by a lynch on poyzin - but if poyzin was sincere, he must have been recruited last night, there's no need to gambit today's lynch when they could just replace him. I am voting poyzin because i am pretty much certain of hitting cult, with a good chance of hitting the CL.

Poyzin is never the CL here. Because if Poyzin was cult/CL yesterday, he recruits Korina last night. sh0s would be town in this scenario and confirmable, and he would've claimed his target straight away. But he's obviously cult here.

[Hectic]

seriously reread the game from the POV of Hec CL / poyz rolecop and see if it doesn't fit

sh0s is the one lying out of Poyzin/sh0s. Therefore, Poyzin was the town rolestopper yesterday. This isn't role-madness science, Obum.

[Hectic]

PT buddy: BS
d1 Town: Kanna
d1 not CL: Hectic

not likely town: Bingle

Remaining: Farkran, Not A Korina Alt, Poyzin, shos

Hectic's early capslock posts don't really feel like a CL trying to slip under the radar

seriously reread the game from the POV of Hec CL / poyz rolecop and see if it doesn't fit

How do you go from Hectic-not CL to Hectic most likely CL? What changed?

[Hectic]

weird early tone

Lul, is this why you're CLreading me? Do you have any other reasons?

[Hectic]

But what if the cultists didn't recruit Korina yesterday because everyone expected them to and he would be seen as unreliable today anyway?

Also I was theorising Hectic got the FN message but since it seems like he hasn't, then yeah shos/poyzin are both cult. I didn't get it and no one else seems to have gotten it either. I think Korina's result could be very useful.

It is technically possible that they recruit someone like Obum, to set him on a course to derail the next day. Which kinda fits with how he comes out attacking me/Farkran today. It'd make sense if you or Bla was the CL.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Kanna

Why did you vote Kanna end of day yesterday, Bla?

[Hectic]

It is technically possible that they recruit someone like Obum, to set him on a course to derail the next day. Which kinda fits with how he comes out attacking me/Farkran today. It'd make sense if you or Bla was the CL.

pretty bad attempt at poisoning the well there buddy

Just throwing ideas out, buddy. I'm trying not to get in a game-losing 1v1 with you if you're town. Objectively speaking, your play so far today isn't really CL-like, considering you've flipped on a townread, and come out attacking probably the two most active players.

[Hectic]

So my current thinking is CL is Bla or Farkran.

Option 1. Poyzin was an extremely lucky liar
Option 2. Shos orchestrated the plan to lynch twice

Either way, both lynches will likely land on cult today. Poyzin still has the highest CL equity of the two.

VOTE: poyzin

VOTE: poyzin
I don't think I need to talk today at all

I didn't like Farkran's weird opening post here, but sh0s' vote after so badly aligns himself with Farkran, it's actually anti-CL points for him.

Kanna I'm discounting a little for being so anti-consensus yesterday. The list of random thoughts she posted seemed too nuanced for scum. 629 is the post.

[Hectic]

VOTE: Kanna

Why did you vote Kanna end of day yesterday, Bla?

I liked Bingle so I wanted to present a counterwagoon.

So who's good for CL today?

[Hectic]

VOTE: Bla for now. I'll have to do some rereading tomorrow.

[Hectic]

For some reason, I'm a little low on motivation right now, but I did a quick skimread of Nolly/Bla, and I like him for CL still. He started the game off with the claiming CL and offering to recruit people thing, but he's lessened that over the game as it grows more risky. Also, a small wagon formed on him and he reacted with a reads list which I've never seen from the likes of Bla before. He usually never puts effort into reads like that, which does sometimes get him scumread, but since he was on an alt and we didn't know his meta, I can see CL!him making reads as an exception since he knows he'll probably be scumread otherwise. Being paranoid of Farkran and then sheeping him was also odd, and he went afk yesterday as soon as I asked him for some CL-reads. Haven't reread Farkran but will do that later today.

[Hectic]

Oh yeah, sh0s is still confirmed cultist, and I'm still strongly of the opinion that he was the cult rolecop yesterday You shouldn't take anything he says too seriously. It's all WIFOM.

[Hectic]

@everyone: please answer
Why would rolecop-shos counterclaim poyzin on D1, when bingles was at L-1 and you know he flipped town?

-So that you can make this argument now to throw us off. Aka WIFOM.
-To make us think you were protecting Bingle, so as to ensure our mislynch on him.
-You're a CL that could've been lynched the next day, so you fakeclaimed in a very unusual/unnecessary situation to project regular cultist.

I haven't disregarded the third point, but there's never any reason to lynch you today rather than tomorrow, since a sh0s!regular cultist flip tells us absolutely nothing, since we know he's confirmed cult. That's to think about tomorrow. You prompting us with your question so much is weird if you're CL, but everything you do right now is random and we're aware you could be trying to throw us off, so I'm not really using how you're acting now to base my read.

It'd be more fun if you openculted and started trolling us tbh.

[Hectic]

Farkran goes out because I don't think he would like to push my mislynch as CL.

Why not? And aren't I pushing for your lynch too?

@sh0s: Lul, you're confirmed, m8. You "forgot" to submit an action, and your opening posts today were scummy on their own anyway.

VOTE: poyzin
I don't think I need to talk today at all

In what world do you think you don't need to "talk today at all" after forgetting to submit your action?
I said we shouldn't pay much mind to what you're saying... and here I am arguing with you. Well played tbh.

[Hectic]

You're funny, sh0s.

[Hectic]

DON'T LET SH0S DERAIL

Waiting on you, Bla. Obum, what's your read on me now?

[Hectic]

@Hectic; what do you think of my logic and do you still think shos was the original cultist?

I don't really agree. If you think Poyzin was the original cultist and sh0s was FN, Korina would be the recruited here, not sh0s. Recruiting the confirmed town tracker is so much better than recruiting the FN that is already under a lot of suspicion. And since you agree sh0s has basically scumclaimed today, he must have been scum yesterday too. Also, I gave some reasons in 970 for potentially why he could do that yesterday.

[Hectic]

If i get to L-1, i will immediately selfhammer.

This feels very unlike you.

[Hectic]

Are you saying that out of frustration or some strategic value?

[Hectic]

Hmm, are you saying you were trying to bait someone into voting you there which would be very scum-indicative if they did?

Btw, no one should be putting anyone on L-1 with SH0S around ready to hammer anyone who isn't the CL.

[Hectic]

So who do you think is the CL then?

[Hectic]

So Farkran, were you trying to bait someone into putting you on L-1?

[Hectic]

So Farkran, were you trying to bait someone into putting you on L-1?

I was expecting to see a vote, yes. On the account of "verifying if i was being honest", to be specific. I had hoped it would come from hidden cult, because i honestly think my wagon is currently full town.

But does that not let confirmed-cult!sh0s hammer you if you're town? Why would you risk the possibility of town voting you since they found that statement scummy and wanted to test it, which allows sh0s to sweep in?

[Hectic]

Hectic did I wrong you somehow, you've been practically attacking me the ENTIRE GAME.

Nah, I love you, sh0s, that's why I have to be hard on you when you're scum.

[Hectic]

And you seriously believe yourself here. for realz.

Well, yeah. Are you trying to make us look like buddies or something with these interactions?

[Hectic]

This... doesn't really change anything from a solve standpoint, but there is the possibility that cult dodged the poyzin recruit in favor of obvious scum.

That's a good point; we should actually be avoiding L-2 until we're sure about who we want to lynch.

[Hectic]

Lul, I'd love for all 3 scum to quickhammer town on L-3, but that's not gonna happen. We know you and Poyzin, we don't know the third.

[Hectic]

Also, for the record, if you think I am CL you should be voting me. So I'm pretty sure you don't believe this.

I haven't discounted it, but like I said before, there's no point lynching you today rather than tomorrow. A townflip would be better info than a rolecop!you flip.

[Hectic]

If cult quicklynch we get to 4-3, do you realize this
if you have no idea who the cult leader is, why wouldn't cult do that

Because the 3rd person would unnecessarily confirm themselves as a cultist? And then we just have to pick right in you 3 after being able to examine interactions between you for the whole game.

[Hectic]

UNVOTE: Bla

Would rather not risk L-2s until we've decided.

[Hectic]

Kerset, I need to tell you something.
So there I was yesterday, minding my own business while playing Danganronpa 2, when one of the characters decides to put her hood up, and BOOM, suddenly she's Kerset. I didn't realise your pfp was her until I saw that specific pose, and now I can't help but think of you every time she has her hood up lol.

[Hectic]

Hectic if you were scum would you cult me over korina?

With sh0s? I'd either recruit you or Kanna. Korina would be rolestopped.
Wth poyzin, it'd be Korina every time.

[Hectic]

Oh wait, Farkran wouldn't be bad either. I'd probably recruit whoever was scumreading me most of you 3.

[Hectic]

Uhhh double wait, Poyzin would be town rolestopper in that scenario. I'm not sure if I'd go for the safe rolestopper recruit, or the WIFOM recruit on an active townie. Depends on if I think any cultists will be lynched the next day and whether the rolestopper will actually matter the next night.

[Hectic]

You know, now that I think about it, I guess it is possible that poyzin isn't recruited, but his latest post and replace out were really scummy.

[Hectic]

His replace out is very anti-CL-indicative too. CL is perfectly happy to be disregarded and ignored here, I think he's a frustrated recruit, rather than a CL throwing a free win away.

[Hectic]

Surprisingly, everything points to what I've been saying, Hectic. what a coincidence

Sure thing <3
Who would you recruit if you were cult, sh0s?

[Hectic]

really shouldn't say that, I began this day feeling really strong on hectic scum but the inertia and apathy in this game kills any sort of fervency I can have

What actually changed that opinion?

[Hectic]

Can we wait for BS and then decide @everyone?

I think we can potentially win if we lynch one of <Farkran, BS> and the other one if wrong. I really don’t think CL is OS and I guess I can lose to Hectic if he really is CL.

I agree, but I'm getting more and more tempted to just vote him. He's active elsewhere on site so we're probably on the money with this.

[Hectic]

hmm.
Well Korina wouldn't have targetted me so I would go with the wifom and recruit someone random off the townies who nobody is even considering to lynch, so practically anyone who isn't BS, Poyzin or Korina. Probably you actually.

Aww that's nice of you to say. Shame you didn't actually do it though; this is my 4th cult game where I haven't been recruited. grumble grumble

[Hectic]

Oh God, please stop, Bla.

[Hectic]

Possible CLs: {Farkran, ObviousScum, Hectic, Kanna, Poyzin, shos}

Farkran goes out because I don't think he would like to push my mislynch as CL.

Poyzin goes out because he claimed when Bingle was the leading wagoon. Also, his claim was risky.
Leaving {ObviousScum, Hectic, Kanna, shos}
If we lynch shos and he turns into rolecop, we know Kanna is town. Yes, Kanna could stay at home, but the chances are small.
VOTE: shos

Interactions between shos and BS do not make sense, really... BS, why is shos CL?

He is a possible CL. If he flips rolecop, it means that Kanna is also not a CL. That's why he is the best lynch.

Why am i not?

Who do i push as mislynch if i am CL?

Me.

Wait what?

Could you address this, Bla?

[Hectic]

Never mind, CTR + ALT + UP fixed all my problems. Carry on, Bla.

[Hectic]

Yeah, fine, he's not really cooperating.

VOTE: Bla

[Hectic]

SH0S

[Hectic]

???
Korina, track whoever you think CL is in {Hectic, Farkran, Obum}. Poyzin doesn't make any sense; he's a just a town rolestopper that was culted.

Go for the hammer, Kanna. You've got a decent record with these.

[Hectic]

Oh yeah, good point.

[Hectic]

Ayy, easy game. Can't believe Kanna fell for that one.

[Hectic]

This is pretty sad. Since cult can't recruit/kill in the night anymore, this is basically on lock. Also, wow Kanna, that's the first time you've voted me in 3 games, what if I was triple Hated there???
Anyway, vaguely interested to hear what the others have to say before we hammer the rolecop. Sh0s is cult here but there's a small chance Poyzin isn't, and that Bla actually recruited one of (Farkran, Kanna, Obum) 2 nights ago. But we don't need to think about that until sh0s and Poyzin are both dead and the game hasn't ended somehow, and we have plenty of associations with the cult leader to examine then. Oh, replace all the Poyzins in this post with TSEs.

Another

FAST NIGHT

please.

[Hectic]

Only if you give me a good sig quote.

[Hectic]

You're clearly the backup CL who wants to rush a quickhammer. Do you take me for a fool, Obum?

[Hectic]

OK fine, but only if you promise to RVS me the next game we play together. I love being RVSed.

[Hectic]

VOTE: sh0s

Inb4 Kanna comes online and declares she received a FN message from sh0s last night.

[Hectic]

FAST NIGHT

please.

[Hectic]

But why, Lord Kerset?

[Hectic]

I thought the last night ended early because we all messaged you the "fast night" thing you asked for.

[Hectic]

Pops said that fast night makes no sense, so there won't be another one. Don't bother voting for it again.

I see. Pops probably has a reason.

[Hectic]

Lul, what did I tell you guys.

[Hectic]

Okay, you're the boss, Chiaki.

[Hectic]

Nah, not if Poyzin wasn't the one recruited. Really difficult though, need to mislynch literally everyone except for Korina who is conftown.

[Hectic]

Doesn't Poyzin keep his rorlsropper abilities after being culted?

[Hectic]

Ohhhh, there's no night phase?

[Hectic]

Oh, so TSE is still town? It is gg then.

KANNA

[Hectic]

Guess that's why Kanna was so averse to lynching Bla, and was gunning for Farkran yesterday.

[Hectic]

Wow lul

[Hectic]

SORRY I DOUBTED YOU, KANNA

Did Bla afk night 1?

[Hectic]

Cult PT pls, Kerset

[Hectic]

Lul, why'd you diverge from that, Kanna? Korina, the sh0s claim is what threw me of Bla and made me want to lynch Bengle. D2 and 3 cult lynches work fine too though.

[Hectic]

In hindsight it makes a lot of sense for shos to be rolecop; he probably cc'd so we wouldn't have 2 confirmed townies ahhhh I just figured it out in the night

Still doesn't make any sense tbh. He could've claimed Cop instead which is much better, and makes us think it could be column A with a roleblocker, which suddenly puts doubt on everything. Also, Cop isn't instantly found out the next day like FN is.

[Hectic]

I was talking about why I lynched Bingle, wasn't talking about you, Korina. I'll listen to you next time on any openwolfing accounts.

[Hectic]

I assume the SK won this one.

Nope, miller did. So why was skipping the night bad btw?

[Hectic]

You can also see my silly mod PT: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=81821

Nice, I enjoyed the PM drama.

[Hectic]

Oh, so TSE is still town? It is gg then.

KANNA

btw ouch Hectic </3

Can't be healthy psuedo-masons without a little bit of doubt every now and then <3

[Hectic]

The game ended. I can finally add the post to my signature.

Lul, that'll probably get you towncred for NOT making reads. You sneaky son.

Btw, I think you need to give permission for the cult PT to be released. Sh0s already did.

[Hectic]

That was a fun read. Poor sh0s, hopefully we roll scum together one day.

What slip are you talking about, Obum?