Micro 914: CultD3 (Over)

[Poyzin]

VOTE: Bingle

Hey there! This is my (second) game here on mafiascum, and am looking forward to this just as much as the first! Let me know if there's anything I can do for anybody right now.

[Poyzin]

but I WANNA HEAR MORE FROM YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE AMAZING, POYZIN

Awww, you've inspired me! I'd recommend getting a better keyboard though so you don't accidentally hit the caps lock button as many times as you have. I'm getting shady vibes from "no lynch" the player, and the cult leader claim out of the gate left me with a bad taste in my mouth. I mean, it obviously was a joke because you don't simply claim to be the leader of the anti-town faction. ...but that's the thing... For some reason I'm feeling that this was just a really risky scum play, to say that to appear as town by making such a blatantly false joke.

Somebody please talk some sense into me because this is definitely unreasonable... right?

[Poyzin]

Should have expected Korina to be here lawl

VOTE: nolynch L-1

My activity levels are absolutely horrendous right now, and I'm sure you all are rather upset with me not having much content to read me off of. Yet, there is a lot that I have missed. I definitely cannot catch up tonight, so expect my thoughts tomorrow. I know that Hectic asked what I thought of that quote, so I will at least be doing this tonight to make up for my terribly mediocre support.

I really don't see this post as an issue. Putting a player a L-1 this early in the game is certainly risky, but I don't believe that a cultist would put themselves on the spot by bringing a wagon to one away from hammer, which would certainly attract attention from the rest of town, which is something that shouldn't be wanted for any member of the cult on the first day, whether they were a leader or no. With that being said, this is definitely not the full story, and I apologize for not being able to deliver a more thorough response at this time.

[Poyzin]

I’m through page 8 and I’m liking Korina’s content. Personal reasons for voting for “no łynch” or no, it would not be wise for scum!Korina to show clear aggression towards another player. Admitting their bias and asking for time to calm down and reassess their reads wholisticly strikes me as passionate town that demonstrates self-awareness that they aren’t seeing the bigger picture at the time while making sure to return tomorrow with a clear head. Scum usually wouldn’t admit to having a personal bias for a lynch in my opinion, but not impossible.

[Poyzin]

Oh wait, I made a mistake. The personal bias was for Bingle, and the evidence presented was for “no łynch”.

[Poyzin]

Also, no lynch, I designed this setup. I'm the creator. Ofc I'm going to discuss mechanics in a setup

I made

.

Fark, Kanna are both town.
I want Bingle dead for personal reasons.
No lynch is scum based on their readlist. If they're somehow town, they deserve it IMO.

This is where I got the Bingle bias from.

Spoiler:

@korina

What else don't you like besides bingle being third place?

Also, on a first glance (with zero experience for this setup) i would think that you're wrong when saying that a non-UT claim paints a target on your back, and it does not surpass the benefit of having town ICs, but apparently there are no UTs so it makes no real difference right now.

That Bingle is up there. Probably past d1 I'll calm down on wanting to lynch Bingle, but for rn, I want Bingle dead because of the last time this was played.

I think we should move out of the setup spec. Anyone who hasn't already claimed not UT should do so now, otherwise, I'm seeing any UT claims on day 2 onward as scumclaims.

btw if anyone is a UT they should claim non-UT too, imo

No, this is bad, and you should feel bad.

BITCH, READ MY NAME AND READ MY FIRST POST

I wonder, where did you get the impression, that I am a female dog?

This post is helpful how?

Cult missing a recruit isn't really a big deal to them. They win the long game anyway. And let's be clear here: If we don't lynch cult today, tomorrow is LYLO.

No, it's not. 5v3 tomorrow. We mislynch, it's a 4v3. Cult can't recruit past three.

The power of the UT is to prevent cult from recruiting for a night because the cult doesn't know they're unrecruitable. By claiming this early on "I'm not UT" you're painting a target on your back for cult. Cult knows you're not UT, therefore you're cultable.

LMAO. Which one of us made a balanced cult setup again?

I never claimed this was meant to be balanced? It was designed because chenn said "this is newd3, not cultd3."

No lynch is townlean, everyone else is lynchable.

This is a fucking shit readlist, and you should feel bad.

Since Farkran is pushing me, I guess it's time to dive into people's ISOs and find if I can find something.

> since I'm being pushed, I should post content

HOW THE FUCK IS THIS TOWNIE

I missed shos. I know.
@shos, are you doing/ was doing a gambit you might want to reveal?

SAME WITH THIS POST

Also, but don't you guys think the cult leader is probably trying to seem townie rn? Lurker/not advancing conversation more likely cultists

That's what the cult leader should optimally do. Cultists optimally would want to draw the lynch onto themselves/others, but not the cult leader.

I know I'm pissed off rn for reasons unrelated to the game, and that probably is affecting my judgement, but jfc, I want no lynch dead.

Nolly, does "Not Townread" equate to Null?

Korina, why do you consider it scummy for someone to not call you Korina? As far as I can tell, people were playing along with your gimmick of obviously not being Korina.

At this point, I have no idea. I'm pissed off for reasons unrelated to the game, and that's affecting my judgement. Ask again in like 12 hours.

However, Korina is still passionate about the “no łynch” lynch, so my point above still stands even if the only evidence of bias against “no łynch” is: “jfc, I want no lynch dead.” This is all while ignoring Korina’s personal reasons. I really don’t care about what they are. The significant thing is that the passion that was felt was brought into the game, which would more than likely be excluded if Korina was scum. They seem to deeply care about lynching scum, and are committed to helping this cause by lynching their top scumread.

[Poyzin]

So in the end, I guess there is just general bias for either of the two. My second post out of these could be disregarded, as I doubted the information that I was posting so I had quote it to
make sure I wasn’t insane.

Also I’m not UT.

[Poyzin]

I’m through page 8 and I’m liking Korina’s content. Personal reasons for voting for “no łynch” or no, it would not be wise for scum!Korina to show clear aggression towards another player. Admitting their bias and asking for time to calm down and reassess their reads wholisticly strikes me as passionate town that demonstrates self-awareness that they aren’t seeing the bigger picture at the time while making sure to return tomorrow with a clear head. Scum usually wouldn’t admit to having a personal bias for a lynch in my opinion, but not impossible.

So, we're now at page 10 and you chose to stop at page 8 to make this post, the only content in it being that you like korina for aggressively pushing a slot that you don't even consider scummy.

There are so many wrong things in this post...

1) why did you stop two pages short of a full catchup?
2) why are you applying your reasoning to korina only?
3) is your only read so far a minor tone-based townlean?
4) what do you make of the two people currently voting you?

Alright, let’s see what is “wrong”:

1) I did not stop two pages short of a full catch up. I just made that post when I was on Page 8 of my catch up. After finally catching up, I realized that my interpretation of events was slightly off, because the admitted bias was against Bingle instead of no lynch, who was Korina’s passionate scumread. This much I outlined in my post, as I thought that the passion was genuine and Korina was clearly frustrated by “no łynch”s posts. I am not going to recap farther than that, as now I’m just reiterating which isn’t helpful.

2) I made my post addressing Korina because I wanted to get my thoughts of how I felt about Korina’s slot before I continued.

3) That is the only read I have thus far stated, yes. I don’t like talking about null reads, and the best argument I’ve read about a lynch candidate is Korina’s points on ”no łynch”.

4) Frankly, I’m not too concerned about the votes. Salamence and I are pretty easy to wagon right now due to our lack of overall content, and I guess you want to hear more from me, to which I can oblige.

[Poyzin]

3) That is the only read I have thus far stated, yes. I don’t like talking about null reads, and the best argument I’ve read about a lynch candidate is Korina’s points on ”no łynch”.

This is not an excuse, this is simply admitting that I haven’t been very helpful in terms of reads as I don’t have any posts talking about my own. Hectic and Kanna I feel are town, but that isn’t helpful in itself if I don’t provide any evidence for my reasoning, which I haven’t yet done.

[Poyzin]

3) That is the only read I have thus far stated, yes. I don’t like talking about null reads, and the best argument I’ve read about a lynch candidate is Korina’s points on ”no łynch”.

This is not an excuse, this is simply admitting that I haven’t been very helpful in terms of reads as I don’t have any posts talking about my own. Hectic and Kanna I feel are town, but that isn’t helpful in itself if I don’t provide any evidence for my reasoning, which I haven’t yet done.

And why exactly are you not providing reasoning on Kanna and I being town? Even loose uncertain thoughts are fine.

I feel like with you Hectic, you definitely have a visible drive to help progress the game, asking many questions and giving many townie responses, such as:

Spoiler: Hectic

If the UTs exist, they can just claim tomorrow with no harm after they've possibly blocked a recruit. There's no setup with just 1 UT, so the cultists can't fakeclaim double UT before day 3, since they can only do that if they've recruited both PRs. Hope that makes sense.

As far as I can tell, they can't be roleblocked and they actually seem a lot stronger than the other PR combinations, since they're so good for PoE when you get to Lylo (which they always will).

I don't think they should claim today, since in order for 2 cultists to pull off a double fakeclaim as 2 UTs, they would need to have recruited BOTH town PRs. So we definitely don't need to out any possible UTs on day 1; let cult have the potential of failing their recruit.

If the UTs exist, they can just claim tomorrow with no harm after they've possibly blocked a recruit. There's no setup with just 1 UT, so the cultists can't fakeclaim double UT before day 3, since they can only do that if they've recruited both PRs. Hope that makes sense.

As far as I can tell, it was optimal to mass claim tomorrow rather than today because of the above, but it's too late for that now. I didn't realise Bingle had already claimed also, I thought his "not UT" was correcting his previous post.

I'm also Not UT.

@Farkran: I see what you mean there, I hadn't considered the scenario where cult claim double UT while knowing there are other PRs that WILL counterclaim them. This is more fine then.

Kanna's TR follows the same logic, but there posts are more thoughtful than Hectic's, but equally as genuine in my eyes. Here are some of the posts that I like from them:

Spoiler: Kanna

If the UTs exist, they can just claim tomorrow with no harm after they've possibly blocked a recruit. There's no setup with just 1 UT, so the cultists can't fakeclaim double UT before day 3, since they can only do that if they've recruited both PRs. Hope that makes sense.

As far as I can tell, it was optimal to mass claim tomorrow rather than today because of the above, but it's too late for that now. I didn't realise Bingle had already claimed also, I thought his "not UT" was correcting his previous post.

I'm also Not UT.

@Farkran: I see what you mean there, I hadn't considered the scenario where cult claim double UT while knowing there are other PRs that WILL counterclaim them. This is more fine then.

[Poyzin]

Spoiler: Kanna

Still haven’t meta’d Farkran but since we’re doing this, I’m not UT either. Be back later.

Therefore, we mass claim not UT on DAY 2 to prevent that, rather than day 1.

In column 3 rows 1 and 2 there is only one PR. If the sole PR is recruited, then cult can literally have that PR and the CL claim UT and town autoloses if they trust it. Therefore, any UT claim after D1 without specifically a roleblocker flip is untrustworthy.

Yeah it is too late; we should’ve discussed + agreed before we started claiming but I still think this seals the deal? ^ D2 isn’t reliable because there are setups with 1 PR and furthermore scum know what column we’re in so they’ll know if they’ve recruited the sole PR > from there it gets really icky

Lul, Kanna's been a UTR in every game I've played in.

Have you played with Kanna scum?

Only this game.

AM I RIGHT, KANNA?

Actually, could I hear your read on Bengle so far?

hecticwhatareyoutalkingaboutdon'tsellmeoutlikethat

Also was asked for a readlist so,
<Hectic, Korina, Bingle>
<Farkran>
<No lynch, shoes>

<Sala, Poyzin> = ??? because here's absolutely not enough content

Top tier are naturally townie imo,
Farkran is townie, but I feel like it's more of a ~conscious~ townie
No Lynch, shos; partially POE and partially don't feel so good about their posting

Previous spoiler had incorrect quotes. Fixed.

[Poyzin]

-snip-

I admit i am tunneling at this point, but why would you only consider Hectic and Kanna for that specific reasoning? I mean, even in your quotes they are mostly talking about me and my posts. How i am not included in that specific reasoning? I could see disagreement bias since i am pushing you, but i'd like to ask you what makes me less town than kanna and hectic from your POV if you assume i am pushing "player x" instead of "poyzin".

You’re probably town, but I don’t think I can make a proper read of your alignment based on your tunnel on me without it being impacted by my personal opinions about it. “No lynch” player is probably a cultist, but I’m not sure about if they are the cult leader.

Kind of curious if Kanna decides to say that they get “weak town” vibes off of my post that town read them; seems like Kanna wants to give me assurance that I’m “onto something” with my reads.

My vote isn’t really useful right now so I’m going to place it somewhere more useful.

VOTE: No łynch. This would be L-2.

[Poyzin]

I’m confident Farkran is town, given that it is understandable to wagon me right now with my piss-poor apologies. Because of this, I think that it isn’t an issue that I’m the leading wagon, as Farkran has plenty of reasons for doing so. Also, I haven’t really expressed much emotions while playing, which also isn’t an issue because I try not to. Therefore, I am aware that I look pretty scummy for lurking and not inputting much. Reads list soon.

[Poyzin]

I’m the Town Rolestopper and I was trying to not attract too much attention. That didn’t work out well.

[Poyzin]

with my piss-poor apologies.

Piss-poor activity. My apologies*

[Poyzin]

Town:
Hectic
Farkran

Null Town:
Korina
Kanna

Null:
Obvious
Sh0S

Null-Scum:
Bingle
Blatant



I’m more sure that Blatant is a cultist than I am sure that Bingle is a CL. Bingle is my closest guess for CL, but my read there is weak. Blatant I’m much more sure is a cultist, but lynching a cultist isn’t as beneficial as lynching the CL. Better than nothing though.

[Poyzin]

I’m more sure that Blatant is a cultist than I am sure that Bingle is a CL. Bingle is my closest guess for CL, but my read there is weak. Blatant I’m much more sure is a cultist, but lynching a cultist isn’t as beneficial as lynching the CL. Better than nothing though.

Just to make sure I don’t forget during my spotty activity.

VOTE: Bingle

[Poyzin]

That’s L-1 if it wasn’t clear.

[Poyzin]

Sh0s is a cultist who is CCing me to leave Korina vulnerable to being culted. There isn’t anything on Page 25 that let’s me townread Bingle so your claim to “just read it” is absolutely crap. Bingle needs to be the target I’m thinking, and Sh0s’s counter claim basically proves this.

[Poyzin]

If Poyzin is scum and in column B, I have no idea why he'd claim town rolestopper over town tracker. If the actual setup is B2 - Town Jailkeeper + Town Friendly Neighbour, the Rolestopper claim is CONFIRMED to be false, since there is no Rolestopper + Jailkeeper, and and Rolestopper + Friendly Neighbour setups.

sh0s a LOT more likely to be lying here, unless Poyzin didn't understand the potential consequences of hiw fakeclaim as scum, and got lucky.

Alright. I was labeled on early by sh0s as newbtown. And for the most part, that was the goal. I am definitely town, but I was making surface level reads that piggybacked off others, or I was going off the WIFOM deep end. However, I’ve played forum mafia for a good year now. I DO know what I’m doing. The only potential consequence to claiming right now would be to get culted. In any other game, a D1 town Power Role claim is heavily dangerous, as you no longer have the chance to use it after you’re dead. While I won’t be able to rolestop anybody tonight, I will switch factions and get the cultist wincon. So, I should have claimed off the bat if I wanted to be a cultist, but I wasn’t sure who was going to win, so I wanted to wait until later. Sh0s is 100% the normal cultist for counterclaiming, and Korina will be cult tomorrow.

[Poyzin]

However, the good news for town is that tomorrow it’s guaranteed that the normal cultists are figured out. It’s going to naturally be me and sh0s. That leaves it up to you all to figure out who the CL is, and I’m very sure that it is Bingle, and maybe Kanna. But I’m thinking Bingle due to sh0s’s haphazard defense of their slot. And even if sh0s thinks I’m cult, he obviously would know I’m not the cult leader for claiming role stopper, so it would be anti-town to vote for the normal cultist right now. To everybody else: regardless if you believe me or sh0s, we are 90% going to be the cultists tomorrow, which would max us out. Think carefully today.

[Poyzin]

If he flips rolestopper, I get culted

Why? I’m literally going to rolestop you so you WON’T be cultist tomorrow. I am the one who is getting culted, and then we are maxed with Sh0s, Poyzin, and the Cult Leader who is probably Bingle.

[Poyzin]

Actually, poyzin has high CL credits too. Don't lynch him today, though.

I’m only saying what I know. If for some god forsaken reason I’m the cult leader, then claiming to be the rolestopper when I’m not will get me instantly lynched on D2. But whatever you want to believe, I don’t really care.

[Poyzin]

Also, sure, lynching CL today is cool because we're guaranteed to win at that point, but we have a confirmed cultist between two people. I'd rather shoot one of them, and try to make the CL play ball with me tonight.

There is no “play ball” with you. You get instantly culted, and this mindset goes against your current wincon. I mean it’s clear that you want to win with cult and not win with town, but you’re the tracker, not the rolestopper. To be blunt, sucks to suck if you wanted to go the cultist route. Your only chance of doing so is to kill the only claimed PR that could actually protect you, when you’re in a game where the two people who are normal cultists are already outed and there is only one CL between Kanna and Bingle, maybe BS or OS too if they are pulling a pro gamer move, I’m feeling null about them at the moment.

Hectic, Farkran, and Korina are town and will 99% be like that for tomorrow.

[Poyzin]

It is likely Korina will be culted

Oh go off some more why don’t you.

[Poyzin]

Why would Bingle - shos pair vote Kanna (kinda universal townread) instead of me (Not Korina is guaranteed to join on me, Farkran/ Poyzin are OK with my lynch)? I am much easier mislynch.

I mean, I guess something else I should also consider is Bongle is town, and sh0s is CCing here knowing we're gonna assume he's trying to "save" Bangle, to get the lynch through on him. Obum is a sleeper CL here in that case.

I considered that, but with Kanna as the real CL. Unless sh0s is the absolute big-brain playmaker and was the CL all along, and CC’ed knowing that we’d think that sh0s was a cultist instead of the leader.

[Poyzin]

Did any of the three of you crumb at all?

Korina might have, but I did not do any breadcrumbing. That makes this decision a bit more tough on you, sure, but it’s the truth. To that point, sh0s did not do any breadcrumbing either. In addition, the WIFOM reasoning that sh0s is the true CL could also be applied to me being the CL, something that I did not address in my venting. However, while I can’t force you to do anything, I STRONGLY urge you consider whether sh0s is really telling the truth with his last minute hail mary CC to me.

[Poyzin]

OS is town. Reasonable cult leader is Kanna or Bingle

[Poyzin]

I only had BS’s vote when I claimed. I was at freaking L-4.

Korina I wasn’t even looking for crumbs. I didn’t know you were even crumbing until you said you were. I figured the tracker might have but I couldn’t care less who the tracker was at that time because I hoped they would claim when I did.

[Poyzin]

Korina. I understand you think your best chances are to win with cult, but really the optimal play for you is trying to lynch the CL today. Stop playing anti-town. The chances that Poyzin found out your crumb are very low and you know it - besides, point 3 is just grasping because the chances of a lurker being the correct counterclaim to poyzin were only 2/8. Anyone else would have counterclaimed poyzin immediately.

Literally this 100%. I don’t know why everybody is giving my claim and sh0s’s counterclaim the same weight. I’d like to be fair to sh0s, but I’m not. It’s good to consider the possibility that I could be the cultist and sh0s is actually the FN, but it’s just that. A possibility.

[Poyzin]

If sh0s is actually FN, he should be targeting who he townreads most OUTSIDE of NKorina (for obvious reasons).

If somebody says that they got a message from sh0s, I want you to lynch me. When I flip town rolestopper (because in this world we are assuming Korina gets culted because I’m supposedly a cultist to begin with), I want you to lynch whoever said they got sh0s’s message.

[Poyzin]

Nobody’s going to believe me but cult completely big-brained it and didn’t recruit me last night. I wasn’t paying attention to the start of the new day because I assumed I’d be culted, but imagine this. There are now 3 cultists. I am suddenly unnecessary, because there is nobody for me to rolestop as the cultists are maxed. If we kill a cultist here, then suddenly I’m useful. But I basically am a VT while there are still three cultists alive, and basically a negative utility to the tracker. I will not be performing an action tonight.