Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Sujimichi]

Hey everyone!

[Sujimichi]

If you are referring to my character, no. I am not a rock.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: Unvote

[Sujimichi]

[Sujimichi]

I am going to be away for tomorrow and half of Monday. I like the contribution that Nachomamma8 has made so far, especially given the style of posting from others that I have seen so far is difficult for me to parse. I also will say that I originally thought searching for townreads would be most beneficial until Nachomamma8 pointed out the flaw in that thought process (which is something I am disappointed in myself for not realizing).

Townread for me at the point.

[Sujimichi]

Sorry, how is Sujimichi trying to blend in? He's barely posted

A) I mean, that’s pretty much what a lot of scum do - post only as much as necessary.

B) the tonality of his post is very awkward and buddying of nacho who is obviously one of the stronger players in the game, especially at that juncture.

I find it interesting that you attribute your behavior to you as null but to me as trying to blend in and being scummy. I think if you honestly review the game at the point I replaced in, it was mostly jokes which I do not do well with analyzing. Nachomamma8 was the first player to, in my opinion, do something game advancing. Thus my townread. Then, due to real life reason (of which you also claimed) I was gone for yesterday and I will be absent this afternoon.

I would posit that you view me as easy lynch material and so are fabricating a reason to push me.

HURT: Amrun

[Sujimichi]

Query: If there is one Friendly Neighbor in this setup and spared players cannot be night killed, would it not make sense for them to claim and be spared during Day 1 as a guaranteed Town Spare? This is an open setup, so if there is no counterclaim then they are telling the truth and if there is a counterclaim we forgo Spare for Fight and are guaranteed a scum lynch no later than D2?

[Sujimichi]

I am thinking I am missing something with that reasoning, but I do not see what at this moment.

[Sujimichi]

mostly fun and games, sure, and while it seems hide and seek has been cut short and now we're playing the

real

game, i don't agree that it was all empty fun to start.

If you could point out what you view as otherwise that would be helpful. I did not see anything I view as not joking.

[Sujimichi]

I understand we need to Fight at some point. I do not see the downside to delaying that to Day 2 with a guaranteed Spare.

[Sujimichi]

If you could point out what you view as otherwise that would be helpful. I did not see anything I view as not joking.

Mom gave me some homework, so i need to get that dealt with before i get in trouble...

but i don't mind helping you later.

Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

I don’t scumread you for A. I scumread you for B. A was a response to alimdia, whose response to me did not make sense. Also, making quiet but infrequent content posts is NOT the same thing as not reading the game and then catching up.

And yet, you did B as well.

[Sujimichi]

I would posit that you view me as easy lynch material and so are fabricating a reason to push me.

HURT: Amrun

Human! Why do you think Amrun views you as easy lynch material? Or do you view yourself as easy lynch material?!

I am a newer player amongst more experienced players would be my assumption.

[Sujimichi]

How is that relevant to the action? I townread Nachomamma8 (for my expressed reason). You townread Nachomamma8 (what was your game related reason?)

Aside from my tone, which I cannot help, our actions were mostly the same.

[Sujimichi]

Hectic. What is your view on my thoughts surrounding the Friendly Neighbor role?

[Sujimichi]

Thank you. Those were my thoughts as well. I am interested in others’ opinions as well.

[Sujimichi]

Two questions, Amrun:

1. Why do you town read Nachomamma8?
   
2. What are your thoughts on what I said regarding the Friendly Neighbor role?

[Sujimichi]

Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: unvote

[Sujimichi]

mostly fun and games, sure, and while it seems hide and seek has been cut short and now we're playing the

real

game, i don't agree that it was all empty fun to start.

If you could point out what you view as otherwise that would be helpful. I did not see anything I view as not joking.

besides the beginnings of a discussion that has continued until now on the merits of concentrating only on finding friends vs. a healthy amount of bloodshed in the name of progress, meaningful conversation has started as early as this little exchange.

Well we can get on opposite sides of that, I may as well get my scumread of him out of the way. Also, your opening was way less scummy than usual, and you usually do a really scummy opening as town. Worried about something?

HURT: Hectic

which would be why i punched Billy in the first place. i, erm... no hard feelings. just because you look similar doesn't mean you're the same.
...you look really similar, actually. ludicrously. are you just wearing a different shirt?

then came the detective, who in spite of his fancy book-words, had some things to say that probably aren't jokes, capped off by a comedy routine we all know and love by now.

HEAL: Billy


HURT: Sherlock

you know, the more i look... and especially the more i look at the posts from that annoying dog and his army of clones, who fittingly enough call themselves Hectic, the more i see there's content on just about every page of this game! i don't know if it's worthwhile to keep repeating it. by the third page it's basically no fun and games at all, except that it is. Nacho's entrance made a bit of a splash, but i take back what i said about him starting the game up.

i was expecting this to take more time...

Thank you. Aside from the slot I replaced, I was not able to see anything; however, I will re-read Hectic's post with a focus on removing his jest from his points.

[Sujimichi]

This is an open game. The Friendly Neighbor does not have to be supported in its claim as a counterclaim will catch Mafia. I do not disagree with Day 1 information, as I believe Amrun described that best.

Did you read my post positing this theory and hers when asked for her opinion prior to making your post?

[Sujimichi]

You're referring to this for Amrun's post? Yes I read it. I definitely read yours since... I answered your post asking for opinions.

My question was not sarcastic, but the answer to both of your points in comment was answered in those posts.

[Sujimichi]

Thank you. Aside from the slot I replaced, I was not able to see anything; however, I will re-read Hectic's post with a focus on removing his jest from his points.

your repeated thanks is making it hard to want to fight you... stop that.

Then perhaps you should not.

[Sujimichi]

what do you think of me, Sujimichi? did you find anything interesting from Hectic?

I think that your vote on me is unexplained, though I do not think you have been asked for an explanation. I did not like your response to my query on your thought regarding the Friendly Neighbor as you deferred, contrary to like what Amrun did in providing her own thoughts. I think that you have been helpful in assisting me in understanding the first few pages, but I do not know if I can attribute positive reasons for that alone. You are squarely a null read for me at current.

I did re-read Hectic, and I do see content other than jest, so I was incorrect in the aspect. I do not have anything in particular that I would like to call out at the moment.

[Sujimichi]

Will be looking at other stuff later, Sujimichi, what do you think about Sherlock?

With the understanding that he is posting in a particular style that I originally did not care for, I think that he is trying to sort players and like him overall. I disagree with his handwaving of Pine, however.

[Sujimichi]

Sujimichi: i'm pretty sure i explained why i punched Billy a few times now. i haven't moved it yet because there isn't anyone exciting to punch quite yet. besides you, i guess.

what do you mean by deferred? i answered you loud and clear!

Your explanation in your opening post is not serious, nor am I Billy Pilgrim. Though you later clarified that you were wanting to understand Billy Pilgrim's comments on Chemist1422 better, that is not something that can occur. Your reasoning voting Billy Pilgrim has no merit any longer, unless you truly believe that was evidence of Billy Pilgrim being mafia, which I don't believe you do.

I apologize as to my second point as, though your initial response was to defer to Nachomamma8 (see post 159), you did later clarify with your own thoughts in post 173 after I pressed. I still do not like your response as much as I liked Amrun's response.

[Sujimichi]

Are you referring to his vote on Pine, subsequent comment on Pine, and then not unvoting Pine?

[Sujimichi]

I understand we need to Fight at some point. I do not see the downside to delaying that to Day 2 with a guaranteed Spare.

There are no protective roles in this game - scum will be able to kill whoever they like on Night 1. I would rather have the town player that scum want to have around the least chipping their voice in to a kill or even a spare on someone who isn't confirmed town than I would giving scum what basically equates to a free night kill. I believe that risk is worth the 1/8 chance they hit the conf town.

Correct. The Sparing mechanism is the only way to protect Town. I am not sure I understand your logic here. The Mafia are going to kill someone during Night 1 regardless, so what do you mean by "free night kill." Also, all town members are currently present and able to voice their opinions currently (regardless of how many do not seem to be), and there is no way to know someone, other than the Friendly Neighbor, is town prior to their kill and the moderator flipping their role information, so why would you want to Spare someone who isn't confirmed Town over someone who is confirmed Town? I disagree with your risk assessment strongly, and I need to evaluate whether this is truly your opinion on what is best for Town or your desired outcome.

[Sujimichi]

I disagree with your risk assessment strongly, and I need to evaluate whether this is truly your opinion on what is best for Town or your desired outcome.

My mechanical thoughts here are the same I expressed during the last Undertale game I play and after seeing our town win despite miscues and seeing the SPARE CITY town go down in horrible flames they are thoughts that I continue to maintain. Consider the following points and tell me how crazy I'm being here.

PROPOSAL A: SPARING CONFIRMED TOWN IS NO MORE BENEFICIAL THAN SPARING VANILLA TOWN

Consider the game of billiards. In the game, a "duck" is considered a shot so easy that you basically can't miss it. And yet, common strategy dictates that you don't take ducks the minute they become available; you use them when you don't have any other good shots available. This is because correctly sinking balls that are in OK but not perfect are more valuable than sinking balls that you know you will get anyways - kind of how correctly sparing a vanilla town now is more valuable than a confirmed town. If we back ourselves into a corner and things get mucky, sure, take the duck. But otherwise, why should we take it right now? We still have to sink the same number of balls - why not take care of those we are most likely to lose opportunities in via nightkills

now

and take the duck when it is most convenient to us?

PROPOSAL 2: SCUM PLAYING AROUND MECHANICS OF FRIENDLY NEIGHBOR IS ACTUALLY GOOD FOR TOWN

So, bear with me because I know that I am constantly teetering on the edge of insanity. When we spare someone, that person should always self-hammer and they should always claim friendly neighbor or not while they self-hammer. This means there's a 0% chance of erroneous claims and it prevents the scenario where scum can reasonably claim friendly neighbor and get away with it.

Keeping that in mind, I think it's far better for town if scum have to deal with the possibility of their plans going to shit with mislynch target #1 claiming friendly neighbor and they can no longer push them - we are much more likely to catch them with their pants down than we would be otherwise and I really don't think that getting a correct Spare D1 is a situation that scum is actually in any way afraid of.

My other thought (the smallest of the three, so I'm not making it big and bold) is that we are protecting a player, a voice, not so much a role - thus I'd rather protect someone I know is a good player and I know who will produce and push the town towards a win as opposed to rolling a roulette wheel and hoping that a strong town player is also a friendly neighbor.

Do you still disagree with my risk assessment? Do you kind of see where I'm coming from or do I still seem lost in the sauce?

Response to Proposal A

Your comparison to pool is inaccurate. In pool, there is a known ruleset that you are playing to (similar to this game); however, the quantities are known. For example, eightball. The game is between two players, one will ultimately attempt to sink all of the solids and then the eightball, and one will attempt to sink all of the stripes and then the 8-ball. Both players are fully aware of which ball is which, and they know that if they sink one of their targeted balls they may continue to make shots. In this scenario, it makes sense not to necessarily go for the easiest shots for reasons ascribed by you above. A better comparison here though is that we are playing eightball with all of the balls wrapped in black plastic except we have the option to remove the plastic from one of the balls. We also must alternate turns with our competitor regardless of accuracy. Even if we attempt to change the angle of our view, or peer below the plastic, that green color we see could be a stripe or a solid. The top of the 9 could actually be the bottom of the 6. We have no way of knowing what actually lies beneath the plastic until we sink the ball or our competitor does.

We have the opportunity to get an early lead with a save which furthers our win condition

and

grants a bonus ability (and we know that we will have at least one confirmed town and thus can determine our minimum bonus) or we take shots at plastic-wrapped balls in hopes they are our desired pattern and that our competitor does not sink our freebie.

Response to Proposal B

We are already in an Open setup with one Friendly Neighbor. Mafia cannot claim Friendly Neighbor at any point unless they want to get in a counterclaim battle with the actual Friendly Neighbor in which case town has secured a guaranteed lynch. This is a point I brought up in my original thought process. What then is the benefit of having someone claim whether or not they are the Friendly Neighbor prior to hammering their own Spare? If they are telling the truth and claim Friendly Neighbor, this results in a similar situation as to what I am suggesting we do today. If they are lying as Mafia and claim Friendly Neighbor and hammer their own Spare, the real Friendly Neighbor can out the next day and we have now caught one Mafia member. If they are town and claim they are not Friendly Neighbor as they hammer their own Spare, they have reduced the pool for which Mafia has to search in for the actual Friendly Neighbor. If they are town and claim they are Friendly Neighbor, they are lying and I do not see why someone would do that.

Town can mislynch just as easily as Mafia, so I do not see where you are going to "catch them with their pants down" in the event that the Friendly Neighbor is voted to the point of having to claim. You then have to hope that there is not a required scramble to change the votes to Spare the now claimed Friendly Neighbor or they will be the night kill.

As to your third point, who in this game are you stating that you know to be a good [town] player and that they are town? Because if you cannot state both with certainty, you are rolling a roulette wheel and hoping that the strong town player is also town in the game.

Yes, I still disagree with your risk assessment. However, your logic appears to be genuinely believed to me.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: Pine

I prefer my plan, but I will do this is there is not majority agreement.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: Asriel Dreemurr

That was not a good response.

[Sujimichi]

What handwaving of Pine? His vote or?

He voted you and then said the following:

Although the good gentleman Pine’s lack of presence here is a little disturbing, I have it on good recommendation that the chap prefers working for Moriarty than working against him. As such, I’m taking his limited engagement thus far to be relatively indicative of him being a good sort this game. That said, it is mildly concerning that his inactivity has continued since Nachomamma8’s presence has spiked upward, given that he professed a strong wish to play with him.

[Sujimichi]

While I believe this initial post seems to come from a town POV, a lot of his posts are centered around this, and has caused it to become a 'safe topic' for people to weigh in to look like they're doing something. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I wonder if the scum are simply lurking here and avoiding giving actual opinions. Town Read.

Why do you continue to town read me if you believe that my questioning regarding the Friendly Neighbor has become a "safe topic" and that players who are focusing here are scum? Most of my content thus far has been related to this point. With your initial phrasing of "While I believe this initial post..." and subsequent "a lot of his posts are centered around this..." leads me to believe you would have a scum read on my slot. Could you explain?

[Sujimichi]

In conclusion, theres way too much discussion on the FN claiming or not and to spare them D1, that anyone from any alignment can jump in and 'say the right stuff'. That's what I mean by safe topic.

I'm willing to give Sherlock the benefit of the doubt that he just seems to be an OMGUS type player. Because at least Sherlock is somewhat involved in scumhunting (even if he's absolutely wrong about me), and not sitting on the fence (or afking)
After my reread, it is clear that we have a serious lack of scumhunting, which I am not blaming Sujimichi for starting this whole discussion.

I'm actually thinking for the people that are actively posting, we need to pressure Chara, Chemist to give their reads. To a lesser extent, Hectic and Nacho too.
For the inactives, theres not too much to be gained from poking them, however as I mentioned before, I find it very interesting that Pine has been sort of given a free pass.

Apologies. You seem to have answered my question in this post. I assume you weren't referring to me, but to other players. I am not sure that you can actually fault them when I am the one pushing for answers, so if you are attributing blame it should be to me.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: UNVOTE

Why did you decide to unvote instead of voting one of your suspected players?

[Sujimichi]

Nacho and Chara are both of the other heal votes on Hectic oh good god

Well tomorrow Replica it's all you champ I'm tagging out. Probably doesn't matter but lmao

Why do you continue to place your Spare vote there if you have a concern with who is voting there with you? Why express concern if you are not actually concerned with it?

[Sujimichi]

Before I heal Hectic, should he claim Friendly Neighbor or not? I do not think it’s necessary, but I remember it being brought up previously.

[Sujimichi]

Then could you claim? I believe you are one Heal away from being Spared.

[Sujimichi]

Are you ready for me to Spare you?

[Sujimichi]

Ok.

[Sujimichi]

Are you ready for me to Spare you?

Yes, there are a few reasons:

1. I have a town read on you with a decent confidence level.
   
2. Others that I have a decent town read on for this game phase we also voting to Spare you.
   
3. There were two days left in the deadline for this phase at that point and activity, and substance, were on a downward trend.

I felt it was the best course of action at that time, though things have chance and now that Pine and Asriel Dreemur have been replaced I am interested to hear the thoughts of their replacements. So far, I would be willing to Fight the Pine/Psyche slot as they both have had the opportunity to contribute but still have not. I will assess my stance on Asriel Dreemur/Farkran, but I do not like the outsourcing that his first post contained.

[Sujimichi]

Again, I don’t think you are quite understanding how slow this game is and how dangerously close we are to effectively no lynching. I specifically changed to asriel to consolidate, not because it’s my top choice at all. Voting with a scumread to achieve a lynch > no lynch

I agree that either Farkran does not understand how the game state was prior to his replacing is, or he is intentionally ignoring. I am unsure which, though I would assume he has the ability to read prior posts and interpret the gamestate at that time.

[Sujimichi]

He is also ignoring that I was waiting to hammer the Spare and have been a proponent of Sparing, instead deciding to focus on the fact that I am voting the slot he replaced.

[Sujimichi]

We are ~4 days to deadline now. Game might have been slow, but right now, with replacement extensions, we have plenty of time to avoid unnecessary no-flip sparing. I mean, even a lynch on my slot is better than sparing, but first i'd like to understand why you have been compromising on my pred as a lurker rather than lurker-pine, or sujimichi. I don't like my pred ISO too, but it's like 10 posts, and after learning my role PM my POV requires me to be wary of people opportunistically joining my wagon. Sujimichi was the vote that struck me most, and i am wondering why it didn't strike you (@amrun) as well.

Why would Fighting be superior to Sparing the Friendly Neighbor?

[Sujimichi]

Hi suji! Besides scumreading you, i am happy to play with you again!

I'd like you to answer my 401 wrt your part. What reason did you have to scumread Farkran, rather than Asriel? Why is asking for a recap scummy in your eyes?

Pedit: i don't recall hectic claiming FN. I am fairly sure he claimed NOT being FN. Am i wrong?

Hello. Good to play with you again as well. What specifically from your 401 would you like answered by me? I disliked your outsourcing your reads to others prior to stating your own opinion becuase

1. The game is not that long, and it should not take you long to catch up
   
2. It allows you to modify your opinions to fit others and the game state as a whole instead of accurately projecting your true opinion

I did not say that Hectic was the Friendly Neighbor (he in fact claimed that he was not). I was asking of your opinion regardless of who is the Friendly Neighbor as you are adamantly against Sparing. I have written in depth on my thoughts on waiting for the Friendly Neighbor to wait until Day 2 to claim, so you are welcome to read through my ISO. I will reassess with your stated consideration. Thank you.

[Sujimichi]

Why am I a scum lean absent your dislike of my playstyle?

[Sujimichi]

What do you think of nacho, suji?

I had an early town read on him for his initial contribution on Sparing, but it has decreased through this Day phase as his thoughts regarding Sparing do not seem consistent, and I don't know if I find his thoughts on other player's to be genuine. I would rather not apply activity to my read on him, but I cannot lie in that it is some skewing my thoughts on him due to the fact he has brought it up himself multiple times.

[Sujimichi]

My dislike of your comment upon replace in is divorced my read on your predecessor. You can believe that to be genuine or not and I cannot change that. I find requesting opinions from others rather than providing your own and then requesting others’ to be indicative of Mafia. You may posit alternative rationale, but I disagree with it.

[Sujimichi]

My post was directed at Farkran not Replica.

[Sujimichi]

It genuinely pains me that neither of you is engaging with the wealth of content that I just produced

I believe I answered your question regarding my stance on Nachomamma8. Would you like to discuss that further, or is there something else you would like to discuss?

[Sujimichi]

My dislike of your comment upon replace in is divorced my read on your predecessor. You can believe that to be genuine or not and I cannot change that. I find requesting opinions from others rather than providing your own and then requesting others’ to be indicative of Mafia. You may posit alternative rationale, but I disagree with it.

I might have believed that if you changed your read from my pred to me based on that comment, but after your opportunistic vote in 264, there's almost no world in which i would believe your latest read on me is divorced from that. Also, if i had to request opinions as mafia, i would likely read or ask for them in my scum PT, don't you think? That's not even the main issue here though, the most significant problem with your comment is that you have IMMEDIATELY tried to shot me down, putting weight on an already existing scumread which was necessarily weak, given that it was parked on a lurker slot. This is how you push a mislynch, not how you try to scumhunt.

pedit @sherlock: i'm trying to take advantage of you being here to reread your ISO, but i'm not sure if i have any particular question for you besides talk me more about almidia and chemist. My read of almidia is not particularly strong, but i certainly wouldn't place chemist in my top townreads.

I have said what I intend to say regarding your view on my stance on you and your predecessor. I will not engage further and the other players can decide from the content provided. I will express that I seem to view “lurker” slots differently than you in that I do not think that keeping them in the game in hopes a replacement will provide more content is beneficial. I also believe that you are attributing your method of playing the game with the only way of playing the game, and using that as a basis to read other players is suboptimal as everyone plays this game in a different manner.

If you would like to engage on other subjects, I look forward to it.

[Sujimichi]

It genuinely pains me that neither of you is engaging with the wealth of content that I just produced

I believe I answered your question regarding my stance on Nachomamma8. Would you like to discuss that further, or is there something else you would like to discuss?

I was more hoping for some commentary on what I’ve produced directed from you rather than me interrogating you on it

Apologies. I will take another look at what you have said. I have admittedly been somewhat distracted.

[Sujimichi]

HURT: unvote

I can agree to forgo this for now given I believe Farkran will, with more certainty, make his alignment known in a way that I can understand it. I do not see how you are reading our interaction as necessarily Town versus Town though, SherlockHolmes.

I did read through your content and I find most of it to be concerning Nachomamma8, Pine/Psyche being a null read, and Chemist-422 being a town lean. I have commented on the first. I agree with the second. I cannot say on the third as I do not see enough from Chemist1422 to make a determination one way or the other.

HURT: Nachomamma8

[Sujimichi]

HURT: unvote

I can agree to forgo this for now given I believe Farkran will, with more certainty, make his alignment known in a way that I can understand it. I do not see how you are reading our interaction as necessarily Town versus Town though, SherlockHolmes.

I did read through your content and I find most of it to be concerning Nachomamma8, Pine/Psyche being a null read, and Chemist-422 being a town lean. I have commented on the first. I agree with the second. I cannot say on the third as I do not see enough from Chemist1422 to make a determination one way or the other.

HURT: Nachomamma8

Yowch, unvote Farkran after pressure, but not because of a townread. only to vote with him on a wagon of his creation.


Please y’all can we fight this?

Farkran is not voting Nachomamma8, and I was explicit that I expect to be able understand his alignment later in the game. You will find that I do not respond to pressure.

[Sujimichi]

Could you expand upon how failing to respond to pressure is a liability? First, to clarify, I am not saying I do not respond at all, but you will not get an emotional reaction from me.

[Sujimichi]

Thank you. That is fair, and I was inaccurate in my statement.

In terms of your skepticism on my divorcing my reads on Asriel Dreemur and Farkran, I can only say that my read of Farkran at the time was made without consideration for Asriel Dreemur. I cannot prove or convince you otherwise.

[Sujimichi]

Why not join me on Suji?

Your reasoning on me feels very much like reaching since I have explained all of my actions, and you were forced to walk the most damning thing back. In your own view - and without referring to someone else's - why do you scum read me?

[Sujimichi]

I won that game though.

[Sujimichi]

Nevermind. It just clicked with me that you are using "loser" to refer to Mafia. Apologies.

[Sujimichi]

I am currently voting the player that I would pick given those options.

[Sujimichi]

Why not join me on Suji?

Your reasoning on me feels very much like reaching since I have explained all of my actions, and you were forced to walk the most damning thing back. In your own view - and without referring to someone else's - why do you scum read me?

This is extremely misrepresentative so I’m not going to answer it.

Your wagon is my wagon - I’ve already stated my reasoning in my own words, and was the first to do so. Implying heavily that I am sheeping and have unoriginal reasons is disingenuous at best. Anyone honestly wishing for this answer can ISO me.


This also serves as an answer to Farkran’s questions.

It is not close to extremely misrepresentative, so your dismissal causes me concern. Your initial rationale for your scum read on me was that I was attempting to blend in (see post 146), which I viewed as weak on its initial foundation, but we can assume you did not. You subsequently stated that additionally, you found my tone to be indicative of scum (see post 153); however, if you truly wished to assess this you would be able to see that this is my tone across all of my games. Next, despite initially saying you scum read me for attempting to blend in, you asserted you did not scum read me for that (see 165) after I questioned you, and instead re-asserted your scum read for my tone (see my previous comment regarding that). You then stated you thought my recent contributions were improved (see 254) and moved to another wagon. When Farkran entered and then stated a scum read on me, you began to walk back to my wagon (see posts 404 and 410) and then misrepresentated my actions, despite them being transparently stated (see post 489). When I called you on this, you walked it back but then stated you didn't like my unvote anyway (despite me stating why I made the action that I made) and deferred to Farkran's comments on my play.

Thus, I am asking for

your

current rationale for voting me without deferring to someone else's. This is not extremely misrepresentative. Please answer.

[Sujimichi]

Sujimichi, do you have a read on Amrun?

It is progressing towards Mafia.

[Sujimichi]

i read 165 as consistent with Amrun saying you wanted to blend in, by echoing thread sentiment at the time to Nacho, and her saying she did not just scumread you for your lower post count at the time (point A, in 165) but that it complements the idea you were blending in.
i am curious about what she found better about your recent contributions, however.

you said Farkran is someone you think will be easier to read later, and that you didn't like his initial question about asking for a summary (which i did like, i find the practice useful and wanted to see what he would do with it). i'm interested in what you think of his recent posting.

I disagree with your assessment of post 165 for two primary reasons.

First, my stated townread on Nachomamma8 was not the consensus sentiment at the time that I posted it, and I was the first player to state such prior to my absence for stated real-life reasons. Thus, I could not be echoing thread sentiment. Now, if Amrun would like to utilize my activity at the time as a premise for her scum read she certainly may, but she should be honest about it since she has stated it was not.

Second, in the following quote, Amrun specifically states that she did not read me for point A, of which I concede was written with reference to post count ("I mean, that’s pretty much what a lot of scum do - post only as much as necessary."), but did read me for the tonality of my posts ("the tonality of his post is very awkward and buddying of nacho who is obviously one of the stronger players in the game, especially at that juncture.") which, as I mentioned in my original post following Amrun's redirection to be questioned (see 559), is easily researchable and in fact has been commented on by at least one player (SherlockHolmes). If she truly was suspect, I believe that is something she would have done or at least admitted was a weak basis. In fact, despite her foundation for her original scum read relying on my tone, my tone this game has not change, and yet she states my posting improved.

In regard to Farkran, not enough time has passed for me to re-evaluate. I believe that Farkran is one that can get caught in a tunnel on players as town (to the detriment of the town), but also is one that can use his activity levels to lead town as Mafia. Admittedly, I have not played with Farkran where he has been Mafia, so that is a weaker statement on my part. As it stands, the largest Fight wagon of the day was on Farkran when he replaced in, and I am currently trying to assess whether he contributions thus far are an honest attempt to sort the players that were on his wagon, or to redirect his wagon onto a mislynch. I am unlikely to be able to answer that today.

To answer another potential question that may arise, my current preference for Fighting in player order is Nachomamma8 -> Amrun -> Farkran.

[Sujimichi]

That is not what #165 is saying. You haven’t read that right. I definitely did (and do) scumread you for trying to blend in, and your tone. I don’t care what your tone in other games are tbh. I am reading you for this game. Secondhand meta is trash. You’re playing a lot of semantics games here and trying to conflate what I am saying with what you are trying to say I’m saying, and I don’t like that at all.

A few things:

• Please specify how I was trying to blend in.
  
• Without understanding someone's natural tone, how can you utilize it as an argument?
  
• I am re-stating my interpretation of what you said. If it is incorrect, please correct me instead of redirecting. That's why I asked you to.

I DID make an error in remembrance which caused me to say something untrue, and when I realized that, I took it back immediately and made that very clear. I still don’t like your unvote. There were two things in that post and trying to make them one thing just because I made a mistake in the second thing isn’t helping you in my eyes.

You stated you do not like my unvote because I stated a scum read on Farkran yet moved my vote. I still have a potential scum read on Farkran but, as I said, I feel that I can assess that better later (in addition SherlockHolmes has reason to belive that we are Town versus Town, and I would like to hear why). I do not feel you took that into consideration. Additionally, you stated you "liked Farkran's points" but didn't clarify what it was that you "liked" or why it was that you "liked it." That comes across to me as you not genuinely agreeing, but using someone else's stance to further your own agenda. I addressed both of your points originally, and did not just dismiss them because your first was incorrect.

Farkran came in armed and active and all of a sudden seemed harder to lynch, while nacho was quiet due to being away. I don’t like the jump from one absent slot to another because the first one was replaced and showing resistance.

None of my reasons have changed. Just because you offer explanations doesn’t mean I accept them. Explaining yourself doesn’t exonerate you.

I am not fire and brimstone level of surety on you and I won’t pretend to be, which is why I was happy to pressure Asriel since there was seemingly support there for a bit, but that doesn’t make you not the best lynch (or fight) for today.

If I was not allowed to vote players because they are inactive at points in time, I would be limited in where I could vote. I do not find that a good reason. You state your reasons have not changed, but you did state that my posting improved. What was it that you felt improved?

[Sujimichi]

Could you please answer my question regarding tone? That was a foundational point of your scum read on me.

[Sujimichi]

Without understanding someone's natural tone, how can you utilize it as an argument?

[Sujimichi]

So, admittedly, it is without basis at current. For the record, I do not advocate reading prior games as a good use of time either, but I also do not attempt to use someone's tone to support my stance when I am unfamiliar with them.

Thank you for your answers. I do not find all of your responses to be a good support for your position, but I am obviously coming from a standpoint affected by bias. It should provide good content for others to assess.

[Sujimichi]

I thought I was quite clear on that point. Without understanding someone's natural, or baseline, tone, you do not have a foundation with which to judge whether or not it is indicative of Mafia (or Town for that matter). You can make an assumption but it is one, by admission, without a basis.

For example, I cannot use the tone of your posts to make an assessment of your alignment this game as it is our first game together. I can describe your tone as it comes across to me, but I do not know what that is indicative of. I do not know if your tone this game is subtlely (or drastically) different from your tone in other games because, again, I have no baseline from which to evaluate.

[Sujimichi]

As you indicated above, my accuracy should improve over time as we have more experience playing together, but that experience is currently at nil.

[Sujimichi]

Possibly, but I disagree, I guess we will need to leave it so that we do not clutter the thread in discussion of theoretical stances. I think your statement of 100 games is quite extreme and disingenuous as a summation of what I said.

[Sujimichi]

In regard to Farkran, not enough time has passed for me to re-evaluate. I believe that Farkran is one that can get caught in a tunnel on players as town (to the detriment of the town), but also is one that can use his activity levels to lead town as Mafia. Admittedly, I have not played with Farkran where he has been Mafia, so that is a weaker statement on my part. As it stands, the largest Fight wagon of the day was on Farkran when he replaced in, and I am currently trying to assess whether he contributions thus far are an honest attempt to sort the players that were on his wagon, or to redirect his wagon onto a mislynch. I am unlikely to be able to answer that today.

Well thanks for the free shade, our only experience together is a 13p game where we were both town and we won day 4, i only mislynched one guy out of mech PoE, but ok, providing only "detriment of the town" and "good mafia leader" as the descriptions available for me sounds fine. I'm not taking it on a personal level though, it just feels very off tone for a player such as you, who claims to be immune to emotional influences.

Apologies. I did not intend to "shade" or insult you, rather explain where I am coming from and why I think that my initial scum read on you in this game could be explained by Town behavior. This was support for my unvote and statement that I feel I would be able to read you alignment better later in the game. I am not sure where you feel I am being emotional in this expression.

[Sujimichi]

Also i'm wondering how Nacho specifically has now became consensus FoS from Suji and Replica (and sherlock, but he looks independent from the other two), but none of them are questioning the towniness of Hectic (Nacho is the leading train for his spare) or my scumminess (Nacho is the only remaining fight vote on me). Actually, i have to admit Suji did question my scumminess by switching his vote to Nacho. Hmmm.

My town read on Hectic is independent of my read on Nachomama8. Are you asserting that a scum player would not accurately town read a Town player intentionally? You are correct in that I stated that I was re-evaluating you as Mafia and have provided where you fall in my current Fight order.

[Sujimichi]

@Replica: idk maybe black/white isn’t exactly right. Maybe rigid is better. Let’s hug it out?

If y’all fucking fight nacho day 1 I’ll have fisticuffs with all of you individually.

Why? What is it about his play that you find so strongly indicative of Town?

[Sujimichi]

Well, I disagree that you have a good case on me but you at least made one. Likewise, people have stated why they read Nachomamma8 as potential Mafia. You may view them as garbage, but I assure you that not everyone does, and at least they were made. I am asking why you so strongly read him as Town, enough to assert that you will "have fisticuffs with all of you individually." I believe this is the strongest stance that anyone has taken on another player thus far, and I would like to understand your rationale.

Answering my question by redirecting is something that you are increasingly doing, and I am not sure why someone aligned with Town would do that.

[Sujimichi]

Where did Nachomamma8 state that he was on a leave of absence? I do not see it, though I see him scum reading Pine for behavior he is now demonstrating albeit somewhat different.

[Sujimichi]

So, unfortunately, I will be traveling from now until the 2nd of February. My activity will be a little more limited than I'd like and I'll be stuck phone posting, but I will still be a force of nature.

@suji

Thank you. I do not view this as a statement of a leave of absence as Amrun indicated, but it does explain reduced activity which I mentioned beforehand I was already trying not to use in my read of Nachomamma8.

[Sujimichi]

For clarity, I would have made the "this is my first time as Mafia" comment if I had received a Mafia role in this game as I would only be discussing completed games per the site rules. This is not a good reason to town read me in this game.

[Sujimichi]

Thank you for the clarity on the definition. It does not change my viewpoint on his contribution since given the specificity of his comment.

[Sujimichi]

I cannot make you believe me. I can only state that I do not reference ongoing games as it is a violation of site rules. This is not a productive discussion.

I do not wish to be Spared, and I would rather you give an opinion on whom you wish to Fight.

[Sujimichi]

I am very uncomfortable with how the read on me has developed and the continued discussion surrounding it, and my motivation to play has decreased as a result. I am not voting with Amrun today, but I will check back in closer to the deadline.

[Sujimichi]

Either suji or sherlock are dying tonight, regardless of how we decide to end the day.

I do not really like this comment at all as it either reflects a subconscious understanding or Farkran assumes to know what Mafia's plan is to be. Even if one supposes that both myself and SherlockHolmes are universally read as Town, there are reasons why we would not be the targeted kill for tonight. I may be reading too much into it, but it is not a good comment.

[Sujimichi]

I also do not like that Farkran has given up on his theory and hard push that there was Mafia on his wagon and he was being pushed as an easy, "lurker" mislynch. It makes me think that he never genuinely believed that to be the case.

[Sujimichi]

Either suji or sherlock are dying tonight, regardless of how we decide to end the day.

I do not really like this comment at all as it either reflects a subconscious understanding or Farkran assumes to know what Mafia's plan is to be. Even if one supposes that both myself and SherlockHolmes are universally read as Town, there are reasons why we would not be the targeted kill for tonight. I may be reading too much into it, but it is not a good comment.

No, there aren't. Unless you planned that comment ahead of time and you are specifically scum together with sherlock. Which is as unlikely as unlikely can get.

And that's not even the point - replace suji and sherlock with two unanimously consensus townreads named player A and B. There's no protection = one of them dies tonight. And this is why sparing is bad.

Could you explain why confirmed Masons and Innocent Children in the absence of protective roles (living or non-existent) make it to the endgame on occasion then?

[Sujimichi]

I read the post, Farkran, thank you. It comes across as more of a required explanation to shift your viewpoint than a genuine re-evaluation of your viewpoint as your reasons for not shifting your focus to one of the other three are weak.

[Sujimichi]

On re-evaluation, my stances have changed somewhat. If we are Fighting today, I would like to Fight Farkran or Amrun. If we are Sparing, I would like to Spare myself. I have decided I do not want to Spare anyone else. I believe I prefer Fighting my two preferred Fights over Sparing today, but I prefer Sparing over Fighting anyone else.

HURT: Amrun

[Sujimichi]

I read the post, Farkran, thank you. It comes across as more of a required explanation to shift your viewpoint than a genuine re-evaluation of your viewpoint as your reasons for not shifting your focus to one of the other three are weak.

Ok, different angle: where is my scum motivation in switching my lynchpool of players to those offwagon? Assuming i am scum, i can have one partner bussing me on wagon. Remove you as conftown, that leaves two players i would have no issues pushing as mislynches.

I do not believe you would successfully push anyone on that list as a mislynch other than myself, and you have been given the opportunity to move elsewhere (see: voting with Amrun to "hold her accountable").

[Sujimichi]

I am not mad at SherlockHolmes, but I do not wish to vote with Amrun.

[Sujimichi]

While you are here as an IC, suji, could you lay out your reasons why you picked exactly those two for your lynchpool?

I reject that I am an Innocent Child-like player at this point. You may have your suppositions based on out-of-game context, but it does not make me confirmed town and the repetitious stating of such fact is irritating and demotivating as previously mentioned. As you have clarified that you have seen my rationale for thinking you and Amrun to be Mafia, I do not see the need to qualify my other reads. Suffice to say that I do not suspect then as much as I do you and Amrun at this point.

I am wary of Nachomamma8, but as pointed out by myself earlier, I feel that I may be using activity to a larger degree for my read than I should.

[Sujimichi]

I read the post, Farkran, thank you. It comes across as more of a required explanation to shift your viewpoint than a genuine re-evaluation of your viewpoint as your reasons for not shifting your focus to one of the other three are weak.

Ok, different angle: where is my scum motivation in switching my lynchpool of players to those offwagon? Assuming i am scum, i can have one partner bussing me on wagon. Remove you as conftown, that leaves two players i would have no issues pushing as mislynches.

I do not believe you would successfully

push anyone on that list as a mislynch other than myself

, and you have been given the opportunity to move elsewhere (see: voting with Amrun to "hold her accountable").

Oh, i lost this in the pedits.

Bolded: what makes you think you were the weak link in that group, though? And what makes you think everyone else in that group is a mislynch? I mean, you are voting Amrun yourself - are you seeing Fark/Amrun as a solve? Moreover - what makes psyche more likely a successful lynch than Nacho, Chara or Amrun?

It has been previously stated that I am an easy mislynch due to my tone (not in this game), and I have been the focus of two players held in great esteem (which also happened to have been on your/your predecessor's wagon and thus are the subject of this line of discussion). You were the one that questioned theoretical mislynches other than myself (see: two players I would have no issues pushing as mislynches), and so I commented as such.

Yes, I see you and Amrun as a potential team in this game. I do not understand your last question.

[Sujimichi]

Could you expand upon how failing to respond to pressure is a liability? First, to clarify, I am not saying I do not respond at all, but you will not get an emotional reaction from me.

Sure thing, it's not the "failing to respond to pressure" that's a liability. It's the insistence that you can be perfection in your response: you

do, have, and will

respond to pressure. It will creep into your thoughts and posts, and you will react to it in some way. Pretending it is not there, or minimizing its effects, is itself a reaction. Standardizing it is possible, but only with great effort and an extensive record.

Logicians in general like to take stances that purport to remove their humanity or biases, but they're not so easily separated.

In short: Your ideals are admirable, but being a complete mafia player means recognizing your limitations, playing with them in mind, and even willfully letting others exploit them when the time is right.

I find it somewhat ironic that this is the first game where I am becoming somewhat emotional due to in-game actions. I apologize for my previous assertion.

[Sujimichi]

[spare]Sujimichi[/spare]

[Sujimichi]

HEAL: Sujimichi

Somewhat embarrassed for that error.

[Sujimichi]

Sujimichi... can you cook spaghetti...?
someone wants to know...

I made spaghetti arrabbiata on Tuesday. I thought it was quite delicious.

[Sujimichi]

I mean, what makes psyche an easier mislynch than Nacho, Chara or Amrun? Looking at the gamestate, i'd be more inclined to believe Nacho would be an easier mislynch, given the amount of consensus scumread around the two slots. This was probably more true several pages ago though, but even then that was one of my reasons to townlean nacho. Look at players progression towards his slot - you, Replica, Chara, sherlock, all changed their read on Nacho starting when he stopped being active.

And, if you'll notice, all players have shifted away from Nachomamma8 once his limited activity was explicitly brought to light.

On the other hand, a psyche lynch was being hard-resisted by chemist, replica (who, besides not being willing to fight, was also scumleaning nacho), you, and to some extent Chara, despite being a lurker replaced into a lurker slot.

I did not resist a Pine/Psych Fight. In fact, I explicitly stated that I would Fight that slot at the same time that I said I did not like your entrance (see: post 395. Replica may have stated a scum lean on Nachmamma8, however, he was not willing to Fight, so that does not have importance to this. I do not believe that Chemist1422 has strongly done anything this game, and Chara has Psyche in her pool of "leftovers" similar to Nachomamma8.

[Sujimichi]

I am somewhat concerned that we will not reach a decision prior to the deadline as there is not only a lack of consensus on whether to Spare or Fight, but there is a lack of consensus on which player to Spare if we Spare, or which player to Fight if we Fight. When I am able to (in about an hour) I will say more, but I wanted to make this statement before then as we are quickly approaching the less than 24-hour mark until deadline expiration.

[Sujimichi]

I am somewhat concerned that we will not reach a decision prior to the deadline as there is not only a lack of consensus on whether to Spare or Fight, but there is a lack of consensus on which player to Spare if we Spare, or which player to Fight if we Fight. When I am able to (in about an hour) I will say more, but I wanted to make this statement before then as we are quickly approaching the less than 24-hour mark until deadline expiration.

I as said above, I am concerned about reaching consensus despite Replica's assertion otherwise, and I do not want to Fight on a compromise. I originally did not want to Spare myself, as I would rather have Spared someone that I town read (Hectic as previously stated). However, also as I have stated, I have re-evaluated this stance given the extent of town reads (for whatever the reason) and the fact that I am unlikely to secure a Fight on either of my preferred players (Amrun and Farkran). Thus, as stated, I would like to be Spared today. For those of you hesitant to Spare me due to a town read you deem not significant enough, please let that go. As we have stated should be done prior to Sparing so that it may not be claimed later,

I am the Friendly Neighbor.

I believe that we have derived good content from the interactions today (at least from most of the players), enough so that we should be able to look back on this in later phases. Now that you know my alignment for certain, you can also review said interactions with that in mind.

I have town reads on SherlockHolmes, Hectic, Chara, and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Replica. These are listed in order of confidence.

I have scum reads on Amrun, Farkran, and to a lesser extent Nachomamma8. These are also listed in order of confidence.

The remainder of players I do not have a significant read on.

I know that, despite my now being confirmed as Town, my reads are not any more likely to be accurate; however, you do know that I am telling you the truth when you read them. I feel this is the best course of action at current, so my apologies for those who disagree with me.

[Sujimichi]

and Sujimichi, i don't know if claiming when you did is optimal. but i'm not upset about it or anything like that.

I apologize. As I said, it's what I felt was best at the time given the looming deadline and player's professed stances at the time. I would have preferred Sparing another town read or Fighting Amrun (to a lesser extent Farkran). However, I became more certain that I was likely the kill tonight and so my rationale for sparing another town read would have been for naught, and I do not believe either Amrun (or Farkran) were going to be a consensus Fight for today.

Most of the recent content between Farkran and Replica has been a non-productive rehashing of the debate between Sparing and Fighting (though more in-depth in analysis) and neither is likely to convince the other they are right, so I do not feel like we have been deprived of much in that regard.

[Sujimichi]

I do not believe I have as I do not agree with him with regard to Sparing. Perhaps I misunderstood his intention, as I also do not believe you are being deceptive in regard to your reads.

[Sujimichi]

I do not believe I have as I do not agree with him with regard to Sparing. Perhaps I misunderstood his intention, as I also do not believe you are being deceptive in regard to your reads.

[Sujimichi]

What the fuck happened while I was gone?

Suji why did you out?

I believe I have explained my rationale quite sufficiently.

[Sujimichi]

I as said above, I am concerned about reaching consensus despite Replica's assertion otherwise, and I do not want to Fight on a compromise. I originally did not want to Spare myself, as I would rather have Spared someone that I town read (Hectic as previously stated). However, also as I have stated, I have re-evaluated this stance given the extent of town reads (for whatever the reason) and the fact that I am unlikely to secure a Fight on either of my preferred players (Amrun and Farkran). Thus, as stated, I would like to be Spared today. For those of you hesitant to Spare me due to a town read you deem not significant enough, please let that go. As we have stated should be done prior to Sparing so that it may not be claimed later, I am the Friendly Neighbor.

I apologize. As I said, it's what I felt was best at the time given the looming deadline and player's professed stances at the time. I would have preferred Sparing another town read or Fighting Amrun (to a lesser extent Farkran). However, I became more certain that I was likely the kill tonight and so my rationale for sparing another town read would have been for naught, and I do not believe either Amrun (or Farkran) were going to be a consensus Fight for today.

[Sujimichi]

Okay, we spare suji if no CC. But this is a terrible plan because we get no new information whereas scum get a shitload, and now analysis tomorrow will have to be done through the WIFOMY visor that is NKA rather than looking at people’s stances on the wagons and pushes.

There have been plenty of voting, stances, and information given today. I am somewhat concerned with your "the sky is falling" attitude at the moment.

[Sujimichi]

Okay, we spare suji if no CC.

This comment in particular does not make sense to me. I was at the point of being mostly read as town when I claimed for the reasons that I stated, so why would I claim a role that I am not in an Open game?

[Sujimichi]

I would like your view on Chemist1422 and Amrun specifically. Chemist1422, as I said, is fairly null for me and Amrun is my strongest read for Mafia.

[Sujimichi]

Thank you. I am not familiar with "classic scummy behaviors" but appreciate the viewpoint from a third-party. It does not currently change my read on her, however. Though, it gives me something to re-evaluate later if it is necessary.

[Sujimichi]

Hey everyone! I have thoughts that I would like to share, but I am curious as to other opinions before I share them.

[Sujimichi]

Juicy.

Vote: Amrun

is my initial thought.

Why?

Btw, shout out to Psyche for doing the needful.

What are your thoughts on who is the remaining Mafia member?

[Sujimichi]

I would prefer for you to at a minimum state who you believe it is. Why do you feel the need to wait?

[Sujimichi]

I did not like that you waited, and would not at least provide your primary suspect. I will provide my full thoughts once I have confirmed an administrative item with the moderator.

[Sujimichi]

Can you point me to the post where you explicitly state that? I have been reading, and as far as I am aware you were pushing Bingle/Farkran toward the end of the last phase and a provided reads list that was not explicit in a Nachomamma8 Mafia read.

[Sujimichi]

I think chemist flip added scum equity to nacho. It also adds credence to my Bingle/Farkran solve because Bingle went through quite a bit of effort to flip chemist “first.”

My read wavers on nacho quite a bit. If one of my scum picks is wrong, nacho probably fills in the gap.

Chara, same questions back to you.

@suji

This is not explicit and was followed by the below:

Spoiler: Possible Mafia Reads

What are the possible teams that you're working with today, Amrun?

Farkran/Bingle has been my pick for scumteam since before either of them occupied those slots.

I’m really ok lynching Farkran today. At this point, I’ll take what I can get. But are we really all just cool with Bingle ignoring this thread?

What are YOUR picks for scum, Nacho?

I’m sitting here thinking about nacho/Chara and I’ll be sonpissed off if that’s it.

I don’t think Farkran was going to be lynched on day 2, but I absolutely think I, personally, could have rallied a farkran mislynch at some point in the game as scum, as PoE narrows. Like I think it would be easy to do and competent scum would think so as well, though I could be wrong. I think any scum we have here is competent, so... I mean they could have a different perspective than me, but they’re definitely competent.

I don’t think a farkran/nacho team is out of the question but it’s not great, no. Nacho’s treatment of the farkran slot has been pretty weird either way and I can’t decide what it’s more indicative of.

But Nacho/Chara team is now bothering me.

You know what would be funny?

Farkran/Hectic. Lol

Amrun: what are your reads independent of team analysis?

Honestly, they’re similar. Throughout the game I have simply attempted to make sure my reads weren’t disqualified from being a team, as opposed to team hunting.

I’ll do a reads list anyway but it’s same old:

Farkran: some things I tonally TR, but he’s shown the least re-evaluation, and I think the reason he’s been hard to lynch besides seeming like they could go through is that they are probably just scum.

Bingle: definitely SR in a vacuum. Obviously. Have liked today’s content more than any other day’s which has me questioning.

Chara: I really rarely question my TR of Chara because we have been in line all game and that disturbs me, yet I can’t talk myself out of it.

Nacho: I had high hopes that have been dashed. I don’t understand his progression on farkran, but does he really go that blatant wishy washy as scum?

[Sujimichi]

I will restate that my original thoughts as to the Mafia team at the end of Day 1 were Farkran and Amrun. I have not really changed much in my opinion of that, especially now that Farkran has revealed as Mafia. As stated briefly in post 2263, I also do not like how Amrun has entered into this day as she delayed her response until such time that Nachomamma8 provided his, and she wouldn't even provide her primary suspect. I do not find her assertion in post 2275 that she explicitly had two scum in Nachomamma8/Bingle/Farkran in the previous Day phase to be credible as when I requested where this was explicitly provided her example in post 2279 was not explicit and as I show in post 2285 she made several other team associations afterward.

As I told Hectic in the Spared PT, I did not, and do not, believe that the stances that Amrun has taken throughout this game to have been real. This began with her read on me on Day 1 (up until my claim as the Friendly Neighbor) as she seemed to be refusing to genuinely engage with me with regard to my questions and asking her to explain her rationale. It also felt as if she was looking for reasons to find me aligned with Mafia and push that rather than finding me Mafia due to the information contained in this thread.

The following is information I provided to Hectic when he thought that Nachomamma8 was Mafia, and I thought Amrun was Mafia.

Spoiler: Thoughts and Quotes

I do not believe her progression on Farkran and the application of descriptors to his play. For example:

There is literally no one I feel comfortable sparing in this moment, and I don’t think that will change.

Farkran’s case is BONKERS, but almost maybe too bonkers to be scum.

For some reason I’m feeling like Psyche is genuine today, even if I disagree with him.

I do kind of feel like one of nacho/alimdia slot are scum now, though likely not both. I await seeing what these slots do.

I do have research to do before I firm up my reads.

There is also a lot of agreeing with Farkran's points regarding Sparing versus Fighting and stating that her read on Farkran "flipflops":

this is important so i'll repeat it. pursuing both spares and fights seriously is more valuable than only pursuing spares, even if you ultimately want a spare.

Psyche has some short walls, that's exciting.
regarding being cagey about towncasing: i still don't know if it will do more harm than good.

i do scumread Farkran but i don't love Psyche's angle of "anyone not hard townreading Sujimichi from his play should have been" because it's both hindsighty and silly to expect everyone will read him the same way.

I keep flip flopping my read on Farkran, like, day to day. Right now I feel like he’s pushing in a way that seems he believes it, which is towny. Tomorrow I’ll change my mind.

And post such as the following make me think of associations:

snip

HURT: Hectic

I’m not going to read ISO’s and I’m sheeping you because Amrun says you logic is shit without disagreeing with any results. When the consensus seems to be “the new guy can solve the game for us!” actually pushing something is probably a town move and I don’t see signs that anyone else has done so.

I do disagree with results.

Hectic is probably town, Chara is very likely town, and Replica is a townlean though not as confident. All of this is readily available information. I don’t know what gave you the impression that I didn’t disagree with Farkran’s results besides you not remotely giving a shit or trying.

@Farkran: I’ll respond to you later. Don’t let me forget!

She then progresses to including Farkran in her potential Mafia teams but finds a reason to push the other person instead. She votes Farkran in post 1839, but gives herself an out with "I'm so conflicted about this game" and "this game is so frustrating" that just does not come across as true. It then progresses to the following where Bingle becomes the consensus scum read between all of her teams.

What were those viable pairings, and why do you think Nacho is town?

What were which viable pairings? Do you mean with Bingle?

Bingle/Farkran is my preferred solve, and you know that.

Bingle/Chemist is viable too.

Bingle/Nacho also works.

Bingle/Chara works, even Bingle/Replica though I think the last is a little less likely.

I think the only Bingle pairing that is obviously untrue is Bingle/Amrun.


I think nacho is making a genuine effort to sort you and I follow his train of thought very clearly. It’s not the strongest TR I have ... maybe a townlean? If I were to add one person to my lynch pool it would be nacho, but I’d still rather keep him out, mostly for the original reasoning I had of him really sticking his neck out for Hectic.

She was hesitant to move to Chemist1422, and Farkran tried to move on Nachomamma8. However, in the course of 3 pages, Chemist1422 was lynched with both Amrun and Farkran on the lynch voting with Bingle with the expediency of a lynch necessary; however, the deadline was approximately two days away.

As mentioned in my last point in the spoiler section, I also agree with Hectic with regard to vote coordination, and we seemed to agree on our reads in the Spared PT by the end of the previous Day phase (and always agreed on Farkran).

[Sujimichi]

if Hectic really trusts my judgement, maybe. in terms of ability to do it i probably could. i know i shouldn't be making decisions based on being afraid of taking responsibility.

Yes, I do think that Amrun is likely the last Mafia member, and I have outlined why I do. However, I am not so obstinate that I am unwilling to listen and consider a differing opinion from someone other than Amrun since there is only one Mafia member left and this is a team game. If you think I am wrong, please let me know why.

[Sujimichi]

i apologize for thinking you were set, in that case.

what did you think of my interactions with Nacho and his replies?

I do not understand his post 2266 as if you had always been a stronger townread, how did he not realize it yesterday? I do agree with his post 2267 in that Amrun would have looked bad if she moved the lynch to Bingle and he flipped town. In the absence of Bingle, and the way his lynch was achieved, it was quite possible that Amrun would have been shot and Farkran would have been lynched the next day.

Is there something specific you would like to point out to me?

This is unrelated to Nachomamma8's posting with regard to you, but as I was reviewing it stood out to me that I did not like Amrun's assertion that she preferred Farkran and felt he had a higher chance of flipping scum.

Chara offered me the opportunity to flip Bingle first, which I considered and discarded in favor of fighting Farkran first, whom I felt had a higher chance of flipping scum.

She was pushing for Bingle much harder than Farkran.

Spoiler: Posts Regarding Bingle/Farkran

Fuck, can we just kill Bingle plz

He’s been posting on site.

[fight]Bingle[/hurt]

GDI lol

HURT: Bingle

Pushing for Bingle but "will take what I can get"

I’m really ok lynching Farkran today. At this point, I’ll take what I can get. But are we really all just cool with Bingle ignoring this thread?

I don’t think Farkran was going to be lynched on day 2, but I absolutely think I, personally, could have rallied a farkran mislynch at some point in the game as scum, as PoE narrows. Like I think it would be easy to do and competent scum would think so as well, though I could be wrong. I think any scum we have here is competent, so... I mean they could have a different perspective than me, but they’re definitely competent.

I don’t think a farkran/nacho team is out of the question but it’s not great, no. Nacho’s treatment of the farkran slot has been pretty weird either way and I can’t decide what it’s more indicative of.

But Nacho/Chara team is now bothering me.

Farkran is "probably just scum" but Bingle is "definitely scum."

Farkran: some things I tonally TR, but he’s shown the least re-evaluation, and I think the reason he’s been hard to lynch besides seeming like they could go through is that they are probably just scum.

Bingle: definitely SR in a vacuum. Obviously. Have liked today’s content more than any other day’s which has me questioning.

These two posts happened within a span of 84 seconds.

Idk man, I kinda want Bingle. I need to think about this a little.

No, I’m tired of deliberation and reconsidering. Let’s just flip this.

HURT: Farkran

[Sujimichi]

I do not believe that my thoughts on Amrun are going to be changed, and if incorrect, I do not think that I will be voting anyone other than Nachomamma8 in the next phase. I am ready to end the day when everyone else is.

[Sujimichi]

Alright.

VOTE: Amrun

[Sujimichi]

HURT: Amrun

Again, that is somewhat embarrassing. Apologies popsofctown.