This is a typical scum thing but sure.
The mad-mans done itIn post 18, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:No U.In post 13, GeorgeBailey wrote:1. Melee. No items, Fox only, Final Destination.
2. Cookies and Cream. Makes me feel like a child.
2. Roles are a spook. I am my own Role, and the role is me.
3. Lobotomies. I call dibs.
4. CHOO CHOOOOOOOOO *CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA CHUGGA* CHOOOO CHOOOOOOOOOOOOO
VOTE: tse
Yeah I thought the exact sameIn post 20, Luca Blight wrote:VOTE: bugspray
I dislike the RVS questions - they are unrelated to the game and therefore pointless, apart from question 3 which feels like role-fishing.
Why the heckers did you just do that?!In post 29, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I hardclaim Masons with JacksonVirgo
Now I'm going to get in the shit lolIn post 74, JacksonVirgo wrote:Why the heckers did you just do that?!In post 29, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I hardclaim Masons with JacksonVirgo
TSE is not normalIn post 50, Luca Blight wrote:Claiming Masons like that is sometimes done jokingly in closed setups, but here it’s completely inappropriate being a newbie and semi-open - it’s basically asking for roles to be revealed, and as an SE I suspect he knows what he’s doing.
OOF I FORGOT ABOUT THE STAFF, mind like uhhh inviting me back to it I kinda left itIn post 54, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I can’t fake claim Masons with a buddy who’ve I played multiple games with?In post 47, Luca Blight wrote:If TSE is indeed scum then it’s unlikely he claims Masons with his actual scum buddy there.
The purpose wouldn’t be to maintain the claim for the rest of the game, but to draw out claims from others in the games by how they react to it. When confronted, TSE can hide behind ‘I was just joking lol’, but it won’t wash here.
I’ve played like 8 games with Jackson Virgo and he’s a staff member on my server.
Meta reasons, they're usually self-resolving anywayIn post 82, Luca Blight wrote:Probably Town based on what?
I'm not town-reading them for that, I don't believe I ever said I wasIn post 110, Luca Blight wrote:If it’s NAI then why are you Townreading him for it?In post 105, JacksonVirgo wrote:TSE always does this stuff as Town, it's NAI here so if you're pushing them just for that it's opportunistic and I will hunt your ass down
Um, the fuck? He's my friend and I rarely play games with them so of course I am buddying with them lolIn post 146, Chuck Shurley wrote:Did anyone else notice that Jackson is simultaneously tactically distancing themselves from AND emotionally buddying with TSE? This is calculated behavior and I'm curious about the motivation behind it.
... I would never do that I promiseIn post 165, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:NGL.In post 155, GeorgeBailey wrote:Although most of Jackson's posts were chit-chatting with TSE, then townreading him for meta reasons. And Jackson has been doing most of the buddying too.... Big think time.
I am taking Jackson Potential puppeting me into consideration.
The question they asked if peeps liked their roles. It seems role-fishyIn post 171, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:1) Is that you Drifter?In post 170, TheLordOfKittens wrote:i agree with luca on this, that third question seems a bit suspicious
2) What Question?
From my experience, they usually are more serious but not fully serious as scum. Like it's a weird balance thing that I think they lean Town in this game. The Mason claim is NAIIn post 175, Luca Blight wrote:You said you were TR’ing TSE based on meta, and later said that he ‘always does this stuff as town’, which clearly implies you’re TR’ing him for his claim?In post 158, JacksonVirgo wrote:I'm not town-reading them for that, I don't believe I ever said I wasIn post 110, Luca Blight wrote:If it’s NAI then why are you Townreading him for it?In post 105, JacksonVirgo wrote:TSE always does this stuff as Town, it's NAI here so if you're pushing them just for that it's opportunistic and I will hunt your ass down
If there’s something else about his play you’re TR’ing then feel free to share it.
I mean I have a vote on someone nobody else doesIn post 185, Luca Blight wrote:Jackson, who is your biggest SR right now?
<3In post 187, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I know this is out of game context but TLOK and JV would be good friends as they both like similar to each other. Although they have different hair colours.
All you've really done was shade a bunch of peopleIn post 221, GeorgeBailey wrote:What's your reason for scumreading me?
Ah gotcha, nah it's an actual SR of mineIn post 223, Luca Blight wrote:I assumed it was an RVS vote. Was this not the case?In post 218, JacksonVirgo wrote:I mean I have a vote on someone nobody else doesIn post 185, Luca Blight wrote:Jackson, who is your biggest SR right now?
In post 86, GeorgeBailey wrote:SL. The way you handled your wagon seemed overly defensive, just for getting to L-2.
Like,But it's not very confident right now. The only thing that's throwing me off, is that, if there aren't scum on your wagon right now, wouldn't it be a very opportune time to bring it to L-1? Or, who's his scum partner pushing a counter-wagon?In post 71, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:Honestly, if your all town scum should just quick hammer me for lols so the host can get a scummy for the game with the quickest Day 1 lynch.
Or has that already been beat?
In post 202, GeorgeBailey wrote:Kitten's entrance is really worrying, and idk how much to chalk it up to Newb.
He's also distanced himself from the TSE wagon and shaded other players possibly for future mislynces, if I was scum in their position I would do the same with town!TSE for some town-cred.In post 151, GeorgeBailey wrote:Ok, so first off. Sorry for absence. (Just got a new job and I bit off more than I could chew with these games. That's all on me, and i'm trying here.)
Second, the TSE wagon is stagnant, I haven't been a fan of TSE's recent response to his wagon (i'll get more into that tonight) But I think there should be a little mix-up. Chazary has been a bit under the radar.
VOTE: Chazary
I understand scumreading TSE for the Mason claim, (in a noob game, always follow poe's law), but I don't see many other reason to scumread him right now. And the way he reacted to it, didn't seem opportunistic. JacksonVirgo obviously knows him and said that's his style. (Oh god the Town Of Salem Forums look really bad though). TSE is still a scumlean but that's not a hard scumclaim.
Jack and TSE do have good scum equity together. Or they could just be good friends that find it hard to distance during games.In post 146, Chuck Shurley wrote:Did anyone else notice that Jackson is simultaneously tactically distancing themselves from AND emotionally buddying with TSE? This is calculated behavior and I'm curious about the motivation behind it.
You said that mason!tse would be highly questionable if they claimed mason early on... what if, wait for it, they're not mason and it was a joke? :OIn post 231, volxen wrote:Why do you find George the most towny out of the three people that were on your wagon (George, Bugs, Luca)? You previously said that you thought that George had the most believable reasons for scumreading you (141), and his reasons for scumreading you are centered around him not liking how you responded to your wagon because he thought that you were overly defensive (86, 151). Whereas Luca and Bugs mainly voted you over your claim. You claimed Mason in a semi-open newbie game. As Luca already pointed out, it’s highly questionable that mason!you would make that claim that early on (even jokingly) given that it… doesn’t really benefit mason!you to do so (if anything it would benefit you more if you were a VT trying to bait the nightkill via WIFOM). I think it’s natural for people to be suspicious of an SE claiming mason that early on, so I’m not seeing why George saying that you were overly defensive in how you responded to your wagon is a better or more believable reason to be scumreading you.In post 204, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:
I feel that out of you 3 who voted me I think your the most Town and Bugs is the most Scum.
Who out of the people who voted me do you think is scum?
TBH I’m not entirely sure myself.
Woah nice iioaIn post 231, volxen wrote:Also, consider the setup. If you are town and the setup is something from column A or column C, then scum has to consider the possibility that you are actually a mason since scum only knows what column the setup is but not which row. In that scenario I think that it’s highly unlikely that both scum would be bold enough to jump on you (meaning Luca and Bugs) in response to your mason claim, as you could always confirm yourself via your mason buddy, and they would potentially look bad for jumping on you back-to-back. Even in the scenario where you are town and the setup is something from column B and scum thus knows that you aren’t really a mason, I still think that it’s unlikely that both scum would jump on you back-to-back for the exact same reason (your mason claim).
Bugspray is probably scum here, Lucas is probably Town at least from my reads aorn. Town being suspicious of a meme-claim is fine, completely jumping wagon over a dumbass meme-claim is not.In post 231, volxen wrote:With respect to your wagon I think that is highly indicative of at least one of {Luca, Bugs} being town. I think that it’s natural for town to be suspicious of your claim, and if you are town I think that scum would be cautious of how they play around your slot in response to your mason claim, even if they knew for a fact that you weren’t really a mason (i.e. if the setup is something from column B). From your wagon I’m townreading Luca in particular based on his overall play, and the fact that a lot of the points that he brought up with respect to your slot/claim are points that I would have brought up myself if I had been in the game at the time. What are your thoughts on Luca? You’ve mainly focused on George and Bugs from your wagon.
I no longer want this slot alive over GeorgeIn post 234, bugspray wrote:It's only a prank bro
Yeah well it was detrimental to town which is kinda a bad meme and the way tse has handled is p wack
Stoopid. Ass. Different. Sites. Make. Me.In post 236, JacksonVirgo wrote:I no longer want this slot alive over GeorgeIn post 234, bugspray wrote:It's only a prank bro
Yeah well it was detrimental to town which is kinda a bad meme and the way tse has handled is p wack
/vote Bugspray
No, they could have claimed mason as a town PR role BECAUSE IT WAS AIn post 258, volxen wrote:I'm accounting for that possibility. I think that TSE is either VT or scum. If he is VT then I could see him doing what he did if he was trying to bait the nightkill with the mason claim, whereas I don't see any reason why he would do that if he was mason (or another PR for that matter) since he would want to avoid getting nightkilled in that case.In post 235, JacksonVirgo wrote:You said that mason!tse would be highly questionable if they claimed mason early on... what if, wait for it, they're not mason and it was a joke? :O
First of all, I doubt TSE will flip town here so if I defend them that's why. Also I'm the bussing type so I have no idea why you're using that against me. In addition, I don't tend to play like "woah I can pretend to not scum-read them and get town points ezpz".In post 342, GeorgeBailey wrote:Jackson Virgo, most of their ISO is heavily defending TSE, and they haven't tried to do a lot of sorting either. Their current vote is even on someone scumreading TSE. I think this more likely to come from scum than from town, contrast to Chazary's opinion.
1. This could be scumteam (that would be kinda funny given that they're friends) and their partner is going full damage control
2. This could be scum pocketing town, and then when a mislynch happens they reap townie points.
Yeah okay whatever, do what you want.In post 350, Luca Blight wrote:That last post by Jackson really pings me. He's blindly TR'ing TSE without following why he's being scumread (he thinks it's still because of the Mason claim). He isn't evaluating anyone else and is generally playing a really passive game. It's like the hard-defence of TSE is to compensate for his otherwise passive play.
VOTE: Jackson
ebwopIn post 359, JacksonVirgo wrote:I do understand the voted on me, but just I don't know how else to explain it
Because everyone is stupid and is pushing TSEIn post 419, Luca Blight wrote:So why not push another lynch if you're so sure they're flipping Town?In post 407, JacksonVirgo wrote:Dang I thought I was gonna be able to play a proper game with TSE but they're just gonna die r.i.p
Maybe next game TSE
If it gets to L-1 I can hammer it because I see why people are scum-reading them and their flip will teach us a lot but like they're gonna flip town 90% of the time.
I assume you also see what I see, that's neat
What made you say point a, and give your reasonings on why you scum-read volxen and bugspray even if you don't at the moment.In post 365, DkKoba wrote:I skimmed the game up until this point, and I have 2 points I want to make:
a) TSE comes off as town who made a really shit play
b) While this is a really hot take as an entrance on d1, volxen and bugspray is my top scumteam read right now
Reading the ISO made you think that TSE is Town and Volxen/Bugspray are mafia, can you give more reason outside of them pushing against a town lynch, Town also does that -_- Also I see nothing on bugspray.In post 366, DkKoba wrote:On closer reread via ISO, I'm liking my read even more. I will try to quote and explain everything, although most of it has to do with a) lack of interaction with eachother b)volxen gives me "mafia savior" vibes where they are pushing off a lynch on someone who they believe is town, although after the ISO I see they only have 8 posts or so.
Why do you care about their opinion on your entrance, unless you purposefully wrote it in a way in which you expect to be town-read and when it was ignored you had to prod someone.In post 369, DkKoba wrote:No comment on my entrance alora?
You say it makes little sense from a scum povIn post 416, DkKoba wrote:this is a bit frustrating bc i dont want to waste d1 on TSE bc I genuinely read them as of right now as dumb town, their play makes little sense from a scum pov. although theyve just given nooby vibes in general. TSE I want you to reexplain why you have done what you have done so far. Give us some insight into your intentions.
In post 423, DkKoba wrote:From my experience, not everyone learns the game at the same pace in mafia. Obviously i dont mean nooby as in brand new, but nooby as in, they dont undesrstand why thats a really bad playIn post 418, Luca Blight wrote:TSE is a SE btw, not a noob.In post 416, DkKoba wrote:this is a bit frustrating bc i dont want to waste d1 on TSE bc I genuinely read them as of right now as dumb town, their play makes little sense from a scum pov. although theyve just given nooby vibes in general. TSE I want you to reexplain why you have done what you have done so far. Give us some insight into your intentions.
Why does it make little sense from a scum pov? And why did you retract that straight away? Also no we're not discussing that for the rest of the day because that's -ev but of course scum!you would try to push that.In post 437, DkKoba wrote:alright based on TSE's last couple pages I think I'm set on hammering them, but I'd like more interaction before I do so. (im sorry im like this but i like drawing stuff out to get as much town discussion possible and getting good reads) also TSE is not really engaging well + they claimed VT so really this is the optimal lynch right now as to be able to hide PRs.
I was hoping they would actually give me more info should they have believed I hard townread them, but it seems they stubbornly clung to their playstyle. (although that could be read more as town.)
I think the discussion for the rest of d1 should be "who is TSE's partner should they flip scum"
StopIn post 444, DkKoba wrote:Alright, this is going to sound weird, but imma have to bring up my meta as a player on epicmafia(kinda fillery post incoming, but it will explain why I do this):
on epicmafia, sometimes someone who is obvious scum will try their best to delay things and fight back and out of anger just not participate and help the gamesolve happen
so a tactic I like to use to counter this is to lead them to believe that I townread them, this makes them think that I trust them and they can be more relaxed and open and save themselves through me.
what I am really doing is either a) getting them to self for hammer(thats sometimes how votes go on epicmafia) OR b) get them to out crucial tells that can help gamesolve(since they may start to bus in an obvious way etc)
what happened here was that TSE is hardfocused in not being cooperative that they just straight seem to have given up because of what I perceive to be a tactical scum blunder. I DO see why their mason claim may make sense from a scum pov(its just not very effective).
I hope that clears up a little on why I said what I said.
My early game reads are often things I do to misdirect scum, or get my actual reads to help gamesolve. Its not the most conventional style but it helps create discussion and gamesolve nearly always.
They're my two top scum-reads and jesus christ, TSE is not the ideal lynch here.
How does that work?In post 531, Luca Blight wrote:Well, if Koba flipping scum makes you Town, surely the reverse is also true?
There's a difference between not being SvS and being SvT or TvT. If one flips Town it is not instantly confirmed the other is scum and you're an SE and should know that.In post 541, Luca Blight wrote:TSE's point was that if Koba flips scum then it indicates TSE is Town. Bascially meaning TSE and Koba isn't S/S.In post 538, JacksonVirgo wrote:How does that work?In post 531, Luca Blight wrote:Well, if Koba flipping scum makes you Town, surely the reverse is also true?
Which means we recieve the same benefit from TSE flipping scum.
I'm good with Koba or bugsprayIn post 546, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:I’m good with either of those 2.In post 544, Luca Blight wrote:As much as I dislike and SR TSE's play this game, I get the feeling from how everyone is reacting to the wagons that they're probably not scum.
I'm preferring a lynch in Koba/Volxen right now.
Oh derp yeah. Ignore me, I just got off work and am dead inside.In post 547, Luca Blight wrote:But neither TSE nor I mentioned a Town flip?In post 545, JacksonVirgo wrote:There's a difference between not being SvS and being SvT or TvT. If one flips Town it is not instantly confirmed the other is scum and you're an SE and should know that.In post 541, Luca Blight wrote:TSE's point was that if Koba flips scum then it indicates TSE is Town. Bascially meaning TSE and Koba isn't S/S.In post 538, JacksonVirgo wrote:How does that work?In post 531, Luca Blight wrote:Well, if Koba flipping scum makes you Town, surely the reverse is also true?
Which means we recieve the same benefit from TSE flipping scum.
Read again.
What no? I town-read you but I'm not crossing you off as lock-town.In post 551, TrueSoulEnergy wrote:So I’m a scum read from you now?In post 549, JacksonVirgo wrote:Oh derp yeah. Ignore me, I just got off work and am dead inside.In post 547, Luca Blight wrote:But neither TSE nor I mentioned a Town flip?In post 545, JacksonVirgo wrote:There's a difference between not being SvS and being SvT or TvT. If one flips Town it is not instantly confirmed the other is scum and you're an SE and should know that.In post 541, Luca Blight wrote:TSE's point was that if Koba flips scum then it indicates TSE is Town. Bascially meaning TSE and Koba isn't S/S.In post 538, JacksonVirgo wrote:How does that work?In post 531, Luca Blight wrote:Well, if Koba flipping scum makes you Town, surely the reverse is also true?
Which means we recieve the same benefit from TSE flipping scum.
Read again.
If TSE does flip scum, Koba is 99% cleared. But TSE is scum from my pov. GTH Koba will always flip scum over TSE here.
Again, I have experience with TSE so that's just what I see.
Do I have any takers on a Town Read for me?
Respond to my post, scumIn post 553, DkKoba wrote:Aloratomthey have created substantial reads and made an effort to scumhunt + ask effective questions. I am 100% not lynching this person unless they give me substantial reason to.
chazaryat first thought I considered them null from the lack of lines, but after quickly ISOing them, their tone is strongly town and their reads flow logically and they haven't done anything that makes me read them as scum. closer to a solid townread than not here.
volxentownnuill. they've given us good content, but I'd like some more before I declare them a townread right now(its looking to be a townread thus far however)
bugsprayscumnull(i dont think they are really null but rather neutral rn) they have a lot of weird lines i dont agree with but considering the angle that they are town that is trying to gamesolve I can see that they are town etc. they lean very slightly scum for me based on their weird behavior but it's only d1 and their intentions can be proven over time.
GeorgeBaileythis ones a bit of a hot take, but man..... this dude's tone is so relaxed I don't see them as scum right now at all. just ISO them please, they are not stressing and they've had good consistent play. I will not be pursuing them today.
Luca Blightnow. luca, they have done a lot of ego play so far, although its very subtle, the world seems to revolve around their reads. But mainly, this is because of their sudden flip off of TSE, after vehemently wanting their lynch. I made a play where I looked to bait a townread on TSE, and Luca jumped on it after I had explained it to vote me. ISO them. Look at how strongly they looked to go on TSE, and afterwards they avoided my question about it. This is a slot I want 100% pushed tomorrow especially if TSE ends up flipping scum.
JacksonVirgoidk I dont like how they have buddied TSE right away. and their reaction to being voted was immediate AtE. They havent done much of anything this game and I'm nervous about that. overall based on the AtE reaction to being voted i get scum vibes so thats where I stand right now.
No, respond to it now.In post 568, DkKoba wrote:Maybe when you contribute something meaningful to the gameIn post 564, JacksonVirgo wrote:Respond to my post, scumIn post 553, DkKoba wrote:Aloratomthey have created substantial reads and made an effort to scumhunt + ask effective questions. I am 100% not lynching this person unless they give me substantial reason to.
chazaryat first thought I considered them null from the lack of lines, but after quickly ISOing them, their tone is strongly town and their reads flow logically and they haven't done anything that makes me read them as scum. closer to a solid townread than not here.
volxentownnuill. they've given us good content, but I'd like some more before I declare them a townread right now(its looking to be a townread thus far however)
bugsprayscumnull(i dont think they are really null but rather neutral rn) they have a lot of weird lines i dont agree with but considering the angle that they are town that is trying to gamesolve I can see that they are town etc. they lean very slightly scum for me based on their weird behavior but it's only d1 and their intentions can be proven over time.
GeorgeBaileythis ones a bit of a hot take, but man..... this dude's tone is so relaxed I don't see them as scum right now at all. just ISO them please, they are not stressing and they've had good consistent play. I will not be pursuing them today.
Luca Blightnow. luca, they have done a lot of ego play so far, although its very subtle, the world seems to revolve around their reads. But mainly, this is because of their sudden flip off of TSE, after vehemently wanting their lynch. I made a play where I looked to bait a townread on TSE, and Luca jumped on it after I had explained it to vote me. ISO them. Look at how strongly they looked to go on TSE, and afterwards they avoided my question about it. This is a slot I want 100% pushed tomorrow especially if TSE ends up flipping scum.
JacksonVirgoidk I dont like how they have buddied TSE right away. and their reaction to being voted was immediate AtE. They havent done much of anything this game and I'm nervous about that. overall based on the AtE reaction to being voted i get scum vibes so thats where I stand right now.
No I'm not going to 'shut the fuck up' when you're ignoring everything against you.In post 574, DkKoba wrote:dude shut the fuck up and focus on something else because your question is fucking stupid as shit considering your fucking read on TSE. You deadass just look like you are looking for an excuse to push off of TSE and its showing.
Respond to the post or I'm claimingIn post 577, JacksonVirgo wrote:No I'm not going to 'shut the fuck up' when you're ignoring everything against you.In post 574, DkKoba wrote:dude shut the fuck up and focus on something else because your question is fucking stupid as shit considering your fucking read on TSE. You deadass just look like you are looking for an excuse to push off of TSE and its showing.
So calm your shit, and if you're actually Town fucking act like it
The second bit was a joke, I'm not claiming shit. But respond to the postIn post 579, JacksonVirgo wrote:Respond to the post or I'm claimingIn post 577, JacksonVirgo wrote:No I'm not going to 'shut the fuck up' when you're ignoring everything against you.In post 574, DkKoba wrote:dude shut the fuck up and focus on something else because your question is fucking stupid as shit considering your fucking read on TSE. You deadass just look like you are looking for an excuse to push off of TSE and its showing.
So calm your shit, and if you're actually Town fucking act like it
HelloIn post 597, bugspray wrote:Holy shit it's like I've read two pages of four wimpys bashing their heads together.
Gonna reply now but fucking hell
ElaborateIn post 602, DkKoba wrote:you're fake as shit.In post 596, Luca Blight wrote:Ok, I'm done trying to interact with you. You're incapable of answering the question, and are trying to accuse me of doing the same as what you're doing, even when I've proven I haven't dodged any of your questions. You're also being toxic.
My vote is locked in place.