Newbie 1984 - Game Over

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: ROUND ONE

Ding ding ding!

[Luca Blight]

Oh boy. At first I was going to complain about the SE's not setting Hectic straight for his trash tier posting. But then I realized he was an SE, even though he says he's quite new. Then again in my last game the SE's were the ones making all the questionable moves.

Do people typically get worse at mafia the more they play?

This is actually an interesting question. I think in terms of many things in life, this ends up being the case. Take, for example, driving: When you've just passed your test you are still very cautious and drive in the correct posture, mirror signal manouvre etc. Soon, however, bad habits start creeping in, and if you took the same test a few years later you most probably wouldn't pass. I think the same applies to Mafia.

Hey, friends!

I'm quite new, so is it okay if I lurk this game and try to learn from the more experienced people? Also, should we mass claim? It could be useful to talk about who we target in the night. I will start: I am the Town Goon. I am not allowed to target anyone in the night.

VOTE: 72offsuit

This is somehow worse than the first post of a person in my last game, which got her massively scumread and lynch-mobbed. You are playing a complete fool on purpose here. I'm guessing you are trying to get an actual vanilla townie newb to be like "hey, it shouldn't say town goon!" and then vote for you because you look like a terrible scum player who just tipped their hand. So I guess I'll go ahead and grant you your wish and vote for you because it's not supposed to say town goon.
VOTE: Hectic

After reading further I find that Hectic actually has thousands of hours of mafia gametime. But I'll keep my vote here to see where he's taking us with this style of posting.

This is a decent thought-process. You have earned a Townie point, well done.

[Luca Blight]

Hello people.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
?

That's gotta be one of the most dumb scum tells I've ever seen, ngl.

Hello everyone, my name's Arthur and I'm fairly new at forum mafia.

Haha, I love this defiance.

Good on you, Arthur.

[Luca Blight]

I just want to point out that DP and Hectic are probably the best two players in here XD

You do yourself a disservice, dsj!

[Luca Blight]

This is a decent thought-process. You have earned a Townie point, well done.

Trying to "earn townie points" is mafia modus operandi 101. Why is this a "well done"? Town goal is to identify scum.

It was a creative way of saying ‘I like this’.

[Luca Blight]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

I’m above such things.

[Luca Blight]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

Because at least one of them rolled scum and possibly both

This is a baseless assertion.

[Luca Blight]

Conclusions so far (from town to scum):
==========
Everyone else (no order):
Natsu - would be more comfortable if you didn't put Hectic at L-2
DkKoba
72offsuit
ArthurConyl
ROUND ONE
Luca Blight (SE)

like, ok so the second part is literally just copy pasting the OP and taking out the three people he has reads on

if so, a) why start by saying it's town to scum
b) why copy paste the names you're not sorting
c) why keep your own name in the list?

that being said Luca still looks more like frozen scum to me than this, this is more baffling to me than objectively scummy

Frozen scum?

You seem to be rushing a read on me based entirely on RVS play, and it seems disingenuous tbh.

[Luca Blight]

I’m out atm but will catch-up properly in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve just skimmed everything, I will catch-up in more detail later.

[Luca Blight]

Question for you, Pikachu - do you really believe not answering RQS is AI?

[Luca Blight]

Okie dokie

*hug* you're cool luca sorry you rolled scum this game

I haven’t rolled scum.

I’m a slow starter in every game I play, and you’re jumping to the conclusion that I’m scum based on a lack of solving during RVS, which seems forced.

[Luca Blight]

Mmmm mmmm it can be

I think scum are more likely to pick pointless fights thinking it will make them seem townie

So you’re saying I’m picking a fight by not answering RQS?

[Luca Blight]

Mmmm mmmm it can be

I think scum are more likely to pick pointless fights thinking it will make them seem townie

So you’re saying I’m picking a fight by not answering RQS?

Not really but idk you're not trying to socialize either and town early can sometimes be more laid back and you don't feel laid back to me rn

Define ‘socialize’ in this context?

I’m not usually laid back when I’m called scum based on nothing, that’s true.

[Luca Blight]

This is what I mean by ‘forced’ - your read on me feels entirely rushed and fabricated.

You say I’m scum for not answering RQS - I ask why is it scummy, you said because scum sometimes pick fights. I ask ‘was I picking a fight by not answering them’ you’re like ‘not really, but you’re scummy for no socializing and not laid back’.

So you’re moving the goalposts, can’t explain what you even mean by socializing in this context, and SR me for not being laid back, which is normal for someone who is being attacked?

I like my vote here for now.

VOTE: Pikachu

[Luca Blight]

I voted you based on the present conversation we just had, not from having caught up?

[Luca Blight]

Why are you scumreading me, then?

[Luca Blight]

Why are you scumreading me, then?

0 solving

Based entirely on RVS posts, which is what I said before.

[Luca Blight]

Strawmanning? You literally said I was scum for not answering RQS, don’t try to make out I’m misreppng you.

I’ve defended myself by being defensive? Oh, how awful.

I’ve already said I will catch-up when I get home, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t engage you right now on what I feel is an opportunistic push.

[Luca Blight]

Like accusing me of moving the goalposts is silly when you're the one who set up the goalposts; if you didn't understand the reasons for my scumread you'd probably ask. I feel like I was pretty clear that my main problem with you was the lack of obvtowning when I feel you're capable of it

Ah, so I was the one who said I’m scum for avoiding RQS?

I’ve engaged you on all your reasons for SR’ing me, you’re zoning in on that one because you know it’s the most ridiculous and now you’re trying to distance yourself from it.

Going now, will be back later with my catch-up.

[Luca Blight]

Why are you scumreading me, then?

0 solving

Based entirely on RVS posts, which is what I said before.

I'm pretty sure we have moved past RVS - my definition of RVS phase anyway. Players have stated FoSes and have switched votes.
There is now some, yes limited, but some material to go off now

You’ve missed the point - Pikachu is scumreading me for not solving during the RVS phase. Until my argument with him a few hours ago, I hadn’t posted since RVS.

[Luca Blight]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

I’m above such things.

answered a bad question with a bad answer.
I can't tell if thats what you meant or youre just blatant scum at this point

[Hectic,Luca]
the detective is town because they are like almost never scum with hectic

It was a flippant remark, but the fact is I never answer RQS - I’ve always believed they’re not only useless but anti-Town.

[Luca Blight]

This is what I mean by ‘forced’ - your read on me feels entirely rushed and fabricated.

You say I’m scum for not answering RQS - I ask why is it scummy, you said because scum sometimes pick fights. I ask ‘was I picking a fight by not answering them’ you’re like ‘not really, but you’re scummy for no socializing and not laid back’.

So you’re moving the goalposts, can’t explain what you even mean by socializing in this context, and SR me for not being laid back, which is normal for someone who is being attacked?

I like my vote here for now.

VOTE: Pikachu

why do you vote now instead of when you first read him as scum earlier?

Because, having questioned Pikachu over his reasoning, it confirmed my initial belief that he’s forcing his scumread rather than it being a result of genuine scumhunting.

[Luca Blight]

So far I'm townleaning Hectic and Round one. Hectic has some eccentric, well-honed style of geniusness that is producing information earlier on. Although I'm really not liking the weird naming schemes he's using. Half the time I have no idea who he is talking about. Who is jaiden?

Round One has an idgaf posting style, and overall looks like they know what they're talking about.

I'm kind of scumleaning pikachu, but that might be due to how shallowly he is bumping heads with Round One.

Scumleaning Luca as well for being afk, while only coming out of it to pocket Arthur and myself.

Pretty much null-reading everyone else. I'm finding it pretty silly that people are bringing up scum teams this early. Also, this thread moves too fast at times. I'm hoping the massive amounts of tiny one-line posts dies out. I feel like mass-spamming the thread helps mafia more (looking at pikachu especially on this one). More than town players who say literally nothing. There's shit that I swear I saw of value that I can't even find again after rebrowsing the thread. Guess I'll have to take more frivolous notes.

Not really liking the amount of filler in this post.

Why would you scumread me for being afk?

As for pocketing, do you not think my ‘townie point’ in your favour was warranted?

[Luca Blight]

What do you think of 49, Natsu? After rereading it, I have several problems with it.

You have *several* problems with it? I'll say it looks feigned, but I can't think of too much else, especially when there isn't much else to go on with Arthur. I've actually read the game Mountain in full that he was a part of. I guess this one post in particular looks a bit out of character. His advice for last game was to trust his instincts and not to hide as a PR. Maybe you're just leading my thinking here, but he does seem overly sensitive to near-lynch wagons both here, 50, and 51. Says he's okay with policy lynching eventually (not a good sign). Speaks authoritatively about a "very common" mafia tactic even though it's his second game. Oh and he also never analyzed dkkoba who I believe was on that wagon. Shit, I guess I do have a lot of problems with it as well.

For the record, I wasn't worried about an early L-1 because a lol-hammer would basically be an admission of guilt. I can't fathom even a newbie town player being the one to hammer on day 1 of day 1.

This feels like Natsu is allowing himself to be lead into a SR on Arthur.

I also don’t think the points he raises are really scum indicative. And this post has a lamist feel to it.

[Luca Blight]

I also don’t like how Natsu has scumreads but is currently not voting anyone. He’s playing a bit nicey-nicey and seems to be hedging his bets with his scumread on me/Arthur as well as his recent shading of Hectic and Pikachu. It’s like he’s seeing which side the coin falls before committing himself to a push.

Scum-lean.

[Luca Blight]

And he didn’t mention anything about me v Pikachu, which should have been of interest to him given it was scumread v scumread from his pov.

[Luca Blight]

I have a slight SR on dsjstr - tonally he seems ok but he’s just floating through with no real content atm. Need to see more from him.

[Luca Blight]

This is what I mean by ‘forced’ - your read on me feels entirely rushed and fabricated.

You say I’m scum for not answering RQS - I ask why is it scummy, you said because scum sometimes pick fights. I ask ‘was I picking a fight by not answering them’ you’re like ‘not really, but you’re scummy for no socializing and not laid back’.

So you’re moving the goalposts, can’t explain what you even mean by socializing in this context, and SR me for not being laid back, which is normal for someone who is being attacked?

I like my vote here for now.

VOTE: Pikachu

I read Pikachu's tone as town so I'm curious as to why you think it is scum?

Koba is almost entirely null atm, but I found this question odd given the post they quoted literally explains why I SR Pikachu, so I’m wondering what the point of the question was?

[Luca Blight]

72offsuit

Luca Blight (SE)
Hectic (SE)
DkKoba

ROUND ONE

dsjstr
Natsu

ArthurConyl

@Detective Pikachu
1. I can't work out if you're trying to be serious or not
2. Why are dsjstr, Natsu and I considered scummy?
3. Normally a weird post like this would be considered scummy, listing everyone like you're so smart and not even giving justification? But then again I can't work out if you're scum or just making a bad play.

Why would you not think the reads based off RVS are genuine?
Because you dislike the results of said reads?

This is a leading question and feels like a misrep as well - Arthur has a problem with the lack of explanation, not the fact they were based on RVS.

[Luca Blight]

I'm guessing you are trying to get an actual vanilla townie newb to be like "hey, it shouldn't say town goon!" and then vote for you because you look like a terrible scum player who just tipped their hand.

Hey, Natsu. Why do you think scum would employ this strategy?

Specifically to out a town role from someone who contests you. Might make PR hunting easier somehow. No one took the bait though. I don't necessarily see it as scummy at this point in time. As for the questions:

0. Town (finally)
1. I think I prefer playing as town. Too early to tell.
2. I've played two games on this site, both flawless mafia games. Also some Town of Salem and a little irl stuff.
3. Going back in time.
4. The virtual world
5. A fair bit.

I'm getting a bit of a bad vibe off this post.
a) The "finally" seems very forced
b) I don't get why its too early to tell. You give me the feelings of a player who has played mafia (in whatever form be it IRL or fast-browser based mafia) a fair bit. I'd be very surprised for someone to not know what alignment they prefer playing as.

I think this is a fair point regarding ‘too early to tell’. I’d skipped over that bit.

Apologies for multiple posts btw, I’m V/LA and can only phone post until Tuesday.

[Luca Blight]

Also don;t like Luca's vote on DP without even ISOing other players and re-reading everything.

Agree with DP - we arent looking for you to have a 1v1 OMGUS stoush, but rather your reads on all the players

It’s early D1, not MYLO. Votes are healthy for the gamestate and i’d read enough by then to know I liked my vote on Pikachu. And no doubt, if I had withheld my vote until I’d fully caught up someone would have said ‘if you SR him earlier why didn’t you vote him then?’, ultimately making it a lose-lose situation.

Simply put, i vote when it feels natural to do so.

[Luca Blight]

Btw 72, fluff galore? I feel you’re massively exaggerating. Lurking? That is an assumption. I’ve been busy recently and only have time to post in spurts, as I’m doing currently.

Choo choo, chugga chugga choo choo!

Anyone boarding the AC ArthurConyl express wagon?

VOTE: ArthurConyl

I can’t help but feel Arthur is an easy target based on what he’s posted so far. It’s not spectacular, but I don’t see anything patricianly scummy about it, and I liked the tone of his defiant post greeting the thread.

You seem to TR Pikachu, so is there any reason you chose to go in another direction rather than join my wagon?

[Luca Blight]

Hectic and R1 are town-leans, although less sure on the former. Will probably elaborate on this at some point.

[Luca Blight]

I don’t like Pikachu because it feels like he’s making a show of supposed ‘solving’ which doesn’t ring true. He’s just putting together a convenient set of reads based on not much, while having an unnatural sense of confidence in them.

[Luca Blight]

I just want to point out that DP and Hectic are probably the best two players in here XD

You do yourself a disservice, dsj!

I guess the other way of saying a lack of socializing would be to say that this feels like a "wolfy pop in" although I don't like that phrase. But the concept is there insofar as up until now you come into the thread, leave 2-3 posts that engage with no one present, and then vanish

That’s not necessarily scummy, though - it’s merely a case of being in a different time zone, meaning I’m not usually online at the same time as others.

I engaged you earlier, and you said you didn’t want to be engaged, so you can’t have it both ways.

[Luca Blight]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

Because at least one of them rolled scum and possibly both

B

This is not saying you're scum because you didn't answer rqs, it's saying you didn't answer rqs because you're scum. And it was also half joking

So if I were Town I would have answered them? Do you want me to show you Town games where I purposely didn’t answer RQS?

[Luca Blight]

Like accusing me of moving the goalposts is silly when you're the one who set up the goalposts; if you didn't understand the reasons for my scumread you'd probably ask. I feel like I was pretty clear that my main problem with you was the lack of obvtowning when I feel you're capable of it

Ah, so I was the one who said I’m scum for avoiding RQS?

I’ve engaged you on all your reasons for SR’ing me, you’re zoning in on that one because you know it’s the most ridiculous and now you’re trying to distance yourself from it.

1- basically, yes
2-engaging me is not what I asked for

1) ok, you can distance yourself from that reason, but your other reason is also BS given I had made 4 RVS posts at that point. If I had made 30 such posts I could understand it, but the force of your push based on such feels disingenuous.

2) it’s not what you asked for, but not engaging was another reason of yours for supposedly SR’ing me, so again you can’t have it both ways.

Also, my point wasn’t about the engaging, but the fact I covered all your points for SR’ing me - something you were making out I didn’t do.

[Luca Blight]

In what way did my bickering with Pikachu seem manufactured, Natsu?

[Luca Blight]

Meta with regards to newbies has to be taken with a huge grain of salt; they are in the process of developing their style and can be completely different from one game to the next.

I almost made the mistake of SR’ing dsjstr on these grounds in our previous game together, because his play-style was unrecognizable from his first game, but his alignment turned out to be the same.

[Luca Blight]

So your theory is that Scum!Pikachu accuses scum!Luca of x, y and z, and then scum!Luca responds by doing x, y and z, thus removing the reason for being scumread?

Is that correct?

[Luca Blight]

@Hectic/72

I notice you both TR Koba for being irritated with Pikachu’s gimmick. Could you explain why this is Town-indicative?

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu, you have seemingly ignored my catch-up despite your apparent desire for it earlier.

Why is that?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, but you’ve clearly been posting?

Also, I could have made the same retort when you SR me earlier for popping in every now and then.

[Luca Blight]

I only committed to a TR on Hectic, huh?

1) that is a blatant misrep, I’ll give you a chance to look again and redeem yourself.

2) even if I had a lack of solid reads, that isn’t necessarily a bad thing early D1. I’m not the type to TR people easily.

[Luca Blight]

Ok, but you’ve clearly been posting?

Also, I could have made the same retort when you SR me earlier for popping in every now and then.

I was phone posting because I thought I was at l-1 with a counter-wagon at l-1 and off my wagon

that was the only reason I was posting

anyway I find your catchup underwhelming and I don't really get why you're getting townread for it

I’ve been V/LA and phone posting since this game started. It feels like you’re making excuses for yourself.

Like now the game is suddenly not interesting enough for your tastes. Are you throwing your toys out of the pram because you’re the main wagon?

[Luca Blight]

you used a lot of words to say you townleaned r1

so yeah hectic was your only TR

read yourself before you call it a misrep

I used the same number of words to say I TL R1 as I did Hectic?

I think two TL’s at this stage of the game is reasonable, it’s rare I have more than that early doors.

Some of your TR’s have a ‘too easy’ feel to them. Dsjstr, for example: ‘he can be green’, based on what exactly?

[Luca Blight]

You never said I was posting everywhere onsite?

Btw, and obviously i can’t say much about this, but if a game is nearing the end of the day I will obviously focus more on that with my limited time, leaving less time for other games.

Where did I say you should TR me for not giving a shit about this game? That is literally a misrep and you’re embarrassing yourself.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu is trying to discredit the misreps I highlighted by adding even worse misreps. Brilliant.

[Luca Blight]

Why didn’t you mention how underwhelming my catch-up was until I called you out on it?

And don’t give me the ‘I have a life’ BS as you’ve clearly had ample time to throw your shit around.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu: Luca, please catch up.

Luca: *catches up*

Pikachu: *ignores*

Luca: so....any thoughts?

Pikachu: I have a life, and this game sucks and everyone is playing badly. Your catch-up is underwhelming cos you only TR a quarter of the player list and clearly you should TR 3 quarters at any one time like I do. Stop pointing out my misreps or I’ll misrep you into oblivion in these hilarious portrayals of mine. I’M EVEN GONNA TYPE IN CAPS TO MAKE YOU LOOK EVEN WORSE! TAKE THAT!

[Luca Blight]

Your own medicine doesn’t taste so sweet, does it Pikachu?

[Luca Blight]

I discussed all his reasons for SR’ing me, it’s not like I ignored the others, and he’s the only one who keeps bringing it up still.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu, you have seemingly ignored my catch-up despite your apparent desire for it earlier.

Why is that?

Luca: calls this "Pikachu... any thoughts"

and then has the GALL

to accuse me of misreps

this post reads as "Hey Pikachu you haven't commented to my catchup in the time you were at work, why are you scum?"

Fuck off

I did exactly the same to you as you did to me.

Being misrepped sucks, huh? Stop doing it, then.

[Luca Blight]

9 minutes

that is how long it took me to respond to his catchup once I sat down

and he is BITCHING NONSTOP

about how I refused to comment on his catchup

More lies and misdirection.

You take 10% of what I say and paint it as the whole picture. You did it with the RQS BS and are doing it again now.

[Luca Blight]

I did exactly the same to you as you did to me.

I never fucking misrepped you

Not once

Lmao, ok. You’re either scum or highly delusional and have no self-awareness.

Once this has calmed down I will go through and show all the times you misrepped me in your portrayals, worse than I did to you.

[Luca Blight]

Seriously if you cannot demonstrate I actually misrepped you in your next post, I'm going to refuse to move my vote from you for the remainder of the game

You can't spam that accusation without substantiating it

I’m happy for the lynch today to be me or you - that is necessary because at best this is a distraction.

I’m phone posting so it takes time for me to go through quotes. I’ll do so once his shit has calmed a bit.

[Luca Blight]

Once this has calmed down I will go through and show all the times you misrepped me in your portrayals,

worse than I did to you

.

So to be clear, you admit you misrepped me

I admit that my portrayal was a misrep in the same manner of yours. That’s why I made it - to give you a piece of your own medicine and show you it sucks to be misrepped.

[Luca Blight]

I’m happy for the lynch today to be me or you - that is necessary because at best this is a distraction.

Why is it a distraction? Is it a distraction because I scumread you, or is it a distraction because you responded to a scumread by intentionally misrepresenting my posts--a point you admit?

Here you go again - zoning in on a fraction and ignoring the context.

YES, I deliberately misrepped you once because you continually misrepped me about 10 times. It was to show the nonsense that you speak. And you accuse me of arguing in bad faith? Have some self-awareness man, seriously.

A distraction at best if we’re both town.

[Luca Blight]

Luca: "I'm going to quote something by everyone in the game and then commit to not giving a position on them! Also I'm going to take literally every thing Pika says and say it's a misrep even though literally none of it is!"

Town: "Hmm Luca looks town"

Pika:

Spoiler:

Here you say i quoted everyone without giving a position on anyone. That is a blatant misrep.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu: "Why is Luca posting everywhere on site except here? Why doesn't he care about this game?"

Luca: "WHY ARE YOU SCUMREADING ME FOR NOT ANSWERING RQS QUESTIONS????????"

Pikachu: "Actually I just don't really see you interacting here, but if you've been busy then I'm curious about your solve."

Luca: "YOU'RE MISREPPING ME! YOU SHOULD TOWNREAD ME FOR NOT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT THIS GAME!!!!"

Fuck off

If you're town you're never endgame material for me at this point so what's the difference

Here you make out I said you should TR me for not giving a shit about this game. I never said that or anything of the sort, so again you’re misrepping my position.

[Luca Blight]

Here you say i quoted everyone without giving a position on anyone. That is a blatant misrep.

Hyperbole is not the same as "misrep"

I had already indicated I knew you claimed a townread on Hectic so this doesn't really make sense as a "misrep"

Ok, then my portrayal of you was hyperbole, not a misrep .

[Luca Blight]

Where did I say you should TR me for not giving a shit about this game?

[Luca Blight]

Ok, then my portrayal of you was hyperbole, not a misrep .

No, because YOU say you imagined it as a misrep

I was making a point, you were trying to be shitty

There's a pretty big fucking difference there

You were making a shitty point in bad faith, and you don’t like it when the same is done to you.

You can dish it out but can’t take it back.

Anyway I’m done with this for now. I’ll be back in a few hours.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu + Luca. I see the SE's are doing a bang-up job on teaching us newbies how it's done.

No but seriously I want both of you dead so this game can get under control.

I'm feeling better about Arthur's slot with IMASPY in it now. I am noticing that I am getting scum-read fairly often by multiple different people, which honestly runs counter to my scum games where I think I was scum mleaned only once during RVS. I guess that makes sense.

For the record I usually post on weekends but I ended up with a cold. Been mostly observing when I have the energy.

Do you still think my arguments with Pikachu are manufactured?

The second paragraph seems like reverse-psychology - making out that you’re only widely scumread when you’re Town. This kind of argument never sits well with me.

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu + Luca. I see the SE's are doing a bang-up job on teaching us newbies how it's done.

really though why is this game full of a bunch of condescending pricks?

being new doesn't give you permission to be rude

You should practice what you preach, Pikachu.

[Luca Blight]

I have to say that I see Spy as more of a mature player than the last newbie game I played with him. They will be another Null read for me, once again I feel like I can see past what they are doing but then again I just see them as improving like anyone should. Based on a purely meta read they are Nul, for the record that is also how I judged Luca and 72o.

Deferentially don't think my reads are 100% accurate

Why do I get the impression you’re treading on eggshells with your reads?

[Luca Blight]

Does anyone else feel like DP vs R1 is TvT

Why do you think so? And who are you SR’ing atm?

[Luca Blight]

Still sick but just checking in, obviously not paying too much attention as I'm bed-ridden, but I glanced through.

Spy started off strong but then they voted for me. I don't care about the vote itself but moreso the fact that he wants to just lynch me and get it over with. Seems really sure of himself. I still can't say I'm SRing him more than Pikachu though.

The wagons are interesting right now, with Pikachu and Spy being at L-2 a piece, and each of them voting for me and R1 separately.

@72offsuit: I've heard your scum reads on me. How come your vote is on Spy? What makes him scummier than I am?

What conclusions do you draw from this?

[Luca Blight]

I still SR Pikachu - I feel like his SR’s/votes on me and R1 are defensive rather than actually believing either of us are scum. He unvoted me without committing to a change in read, which feels like he wants to keep his options open to hop back on if need be. I don’t want to get into another argument right now so I’ll leave this until Tuesday, when my V/La is over.

[Luca Blight]

why are you town
why is should the other wagon be lynched over you
and what could make you scum in this scenario

1 - play better and figure it out
2 - that wasn't what I was saying you should do
3 - play better and figure it out

I missed 0 questions that were worth answering

Remember when you slated Natsu for being condescending?

I’m sorry but blatant hypocrisy drives me nuts.

[Luca Blight]

Honestly, Pikachu's been more "fighty" than any of my other games with him, but none of the frustration/rage stood out as fake, so I still think he's fine. And this feels different to the last time he was in a 1v1 as scum where he went more along with it and was more passive aggressive, it was a different tone basically (talking about Cane, Piakchu).

Scum get frustrated too - the rage doesn’t have to be fake. Pikachu clearly sees himself as a big shot and he’s furious at the thought of being caught D1 in a newbie game.

[Luca Blight]

Luca, what's your read on the Spy slot?

The slot has seemed fine to me the whole way through, but I haven’t got round to ISO’ing them yet. I’ll do so soon.

[Luca Blight]

I feel like his SR’s/votes on me and R1 are defensive rather than actually believing either of us are scum.

who said I scumread R1?

You’re voting them while having other slots which you supposedly SR.

If you don’t think they’re scum then why are you voting them?

[Luca Blight]

Pikachu clearly sees himself as a big shot and he’s furious at the thought of being caught D1 in a newbie game.

oh is this why you were complaining about misreps? You got frustrated at being caught d1 in a newbie game?

I feel like this is you explaining why your overreaction to my initial push is scum-indicative lol

Arguing with you is about as fruitful as having a debate with a brick wall.

Being misrepped sucks. When I gave you a taste of your own medicine you were pissed off as well.

You’re either scum or have a complete lack of self-awareness and are a complete hypocrite. I’m reluctant to believe the latter.

[Luca Blight]

You put words in my mouth that were never said. For example, making out I said I should be TR for not giving a shit about this game - that is entirely fabricated, and you expect me to believe you didn’t intend to misrep me?

[Luca Blight]

Once again, you took me disagreeing with your interpretation as an invitation to misrep my positions in a deliberately shitty way to satisfy your own petty egotistical desires.

and you then have the gall to accuse me of hypocrisy. like this game is blacklist material for you regardless of alignment in my book, which is something I have literally never said in a newbie queue game before

And yet I (unlike you) admitted that what I did was a misrep.

It’s like in school, someone who is being bullied over and over then fights back on the same terms, which ends the problem.

As I said before, if you can’t take it then don’t dish it out. Take a look back at your portrayals and tell me that mine was any worse than yours?

[Luca Blight]

I misrepped you about RQS, did I?

Dude, you literally said I didn’t answer RQS because I’m scum. Stop trying to distance yourself from it. I’m not even bringing that up anymore and yet you still do.

I pushed you because I believe your reasons were forced, not because I thought you must TR me. You’re the one making assumptions here.

Enough of this shit, I’m on V/LA. We can continue this on Tuesday if you want.

[Luca Blight]

I’m not continuing this right now as I said, but 84 was (fmpov) clearly a joke.

You didn’t expect me to believe you were serious, did you?

[Luca Blight]

That’s a huge assumption.

I don’t reply to Pikachu’s joke, therefore I don’t give a shit about the game.

How fucking arrogant are you?

I did engage the thread as you quoted, but I tend to let things unravel a bit before I get more involved. Does that mean I must be Town? No, but it’s an explanation for why It’s NAI for me.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, sure.

Let’s continue this Tuesday.

[Luca Blight]

Yeah, sure.

Let’s continue this Tuesday.

[Luca Blight]

Drop it, Pikachu.

I SR Natsu, he is currently my second choice for the lynch. I will eventually ISO everyone again, so my vote will remain where it is until then.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, I am terrible and Pikachu is brilliant. If that’s what makes you happy.

Now please stop going on as I’m not going to continue this until I’m back from V/LA, as I’ve said.

[Luca Blight]

Drop it, Pikachu.

Sorry you want to dish criticism but you can't take it?

You could apologize for deliberately misrepping me and escalating the hostility of the game for as far as I can tell no comprehensible reason

I apologize for it. It would be nice if you could do the same.

[Luca Blight]

do you believe that was an attempt at a realistic representation of what Luca literally said or my subjective interpretation of his argument?

When you present an incorrect and unfounded interpretation of what I’ve said and portray it as the truth, then it is by definition a misrep - you’re making out I said something that I didn’t.

By the same logic my post wasn’t a misrep either. For example, you said I’d only committed to a TR on two players, so my interpretation of that could be ‘if you don’t TR most of the players in the game then you’re scum’.

I’m doing the same as what you did - making a huge assumption as to further meanings behind what you said and presenting it as though you’d actually said the assumed meanings.

[Luca Blight]

You’ve gone from wanting me dead to TR’ing me, Natsu.

Can you explain that development?

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

I don’t want to run the risk of a hammer before I’ve had the chance to review everyone, which I’ll get to Tomorrow.

[Luca Blight]

User control panel -> vacation/limited access, then mark the dates from and until.

Or just announce it in thread in bold.

[Luca Blight]

Reading up to page 31, and I'm getting Town vibes from Spy and Pikachu. I'm trying my hardest to stay open-minded on the latter even though his antagonistic style rubs me up the wrong way.

[Luca Blight]

I don't like 72's Spy vote at the bottom of that page - it's at odds with the impression I got from Spy's recent posts, and the reasoning is pretty forced. Pikachu and Natsu have been the two most dubious slots in the game imo, so pushing both of them doesn't seem strange from my pov.

I also like how Spy is developing their reads based on further interactions, which 72 isn't taking into account.

[Luca Blight]

782 sums up some of the problems I had with Natsu's reads. I felt like their transition from wanting me dead to TR'ing me was pocketing, based on the fact I was voting/arguing with the player who was pushing his wagon.

[Luca Blight]

782

He emphasizes a townread on Luca, who hasn't actually joined the wagon on him and who was at the time still voting his counter-wagon

I am pretty sure I didn't TR Luca until much more recently, are you saying I am now TRing him after he jumped on your wagon?

@Spy I still don't see how you would assume you would be killed when there are far more obv-town people who have never been voted for a considerable length.

This post is giving me a bad vibe.
It sounds like you are saying you cant Remember what sort of read You had on luca. I would expect you to have at least some feel for where playersie on the town to scum scale. Only scum has to 'remember'.

It's a famous Mark Twain quote:

If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything

Its like you arent looking for tells, but are rather just artificially coming up with reads.

This seems like a disingenuous interpretation, though, and easy points scoring.

I always say things like 'I think' and' 'I'm pretty sure' when I actually know something for certain.

I feel like you're the one eyeing up the suspected slots right now.

VOTE: 72

[Luca Blight]

That's right hectic, it's time to bus natsu :3

Let's do it and take this for a spin.

VOTE: Natsu

Did you seriously just vote a TR to try and demonstrate you're not partners?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Hectic

I like this more, actually.

The fact his presence has diminished more and more since an eventful RVS phase, and the fact he's sat on his reads all day (Spy being scum, Natsu being Town) but now suddenly votes his TR at the drop of a hat for town credit.

[Luca Blight]

Hardly. I posted my scumreads of AC/Natsu/R1 and urself back on pg12, p275. 0 votes on natsu at that stage.
So you stating im eyeing suspected slots is total BS.

That doesn't really negate what I said, though.

The fact your Spy read hasn't changed is odd to me, and your 797 was a poor reason to shade Natsu, which makes it look like you're jumping on anything.

[Luca Blight]

I don't like 72's Spy vote at the bottom of that page - it's at odds with the impression I got from Spy's recent posts, and the reasoning is pretty forced. Pikachu and Natsu have been the two most dubious slots in the game imo, so pushing both of them doesn't seem strange from my pov.

I also like how Spy is developing their reads based on further interactions, which 72 isn't taking into account.

Why do you not like my vote on IMASPY? I was already voting for him. He just wanted me to change it under his name, which i thought was fair enough, as he has clearly put time into this game. You stating you dont like my vote makes ZERO sense though. I was already voting for him.

Fair enough, I missed that post from Spy that prompted the vote.

I still can't relate to your read, though.

[Luca Blight]

I don't like the fact that between the last meaningful post of p660 and the current posts, the most you redig from rereading, is viewing my revoting of the slot im already actually voting as being scummy.

I've said a few times now it's the lack of development of your read I find scummy, not the vote itself.

I didn't realise you were already voting Spy, but that's actually irrelevant to my point.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not shading, I've already stated several times that I'm happy with a Natsu lynch. How is that shading?

You can be happy with someone's lynch and still shade them; the two things aren't incongruent.

You're painting something as scummy which simply isn't. Maybe it's unintentional and you've never seen such expressions, but it came off as disingenuous.

[Luca Blight]

If you can't relate to my read, I can understand that.

But your comments Re: shading and eyeing off easy lynches is not legit

I don't think you're comment aimed at Spy was legit either.

Sometimes to make a point I show that someone is doing the same as what they accuse others of doing, like I did to Pikachu earlier regarding the misreps.

[Luca Blight]

I'm not SR'ing him for not posting much this weekend, I'm SR'ing him for his general play since RVS and his Natsu vote.

[Luca Blight]

Natsu is a decent lynch for D1, although he feels like an easy compromise for everyone which is making me doubt he flips scum.

Hectic's vote could be a belated bus, though.

Either way, I want more out of Koba and the dsj replacement before we consider hammering.

[Luca Blight]

That’s weird, because I do agree with your scumread. I don’t agree with your reasoning in that particular post.

Shade basically means casting doubt upon someone, particularly in an unfair or underhanded manner.

[Luca Blight]

Natsu, you seem very passive despite being the main wagon. Why is this?

I’m still considering the possibility that you might be Town, but you seem to have given up.

[Luca Blight]

Natsu, you seem very passive despite being the main wagon. Why is this?

I’m still considering the possibility that you might be Town, but you seem to have given up.

There's not much left for me to say. Several players have me massively scumread for what I think amounts to silly reasons. We'll probably lynch scum by day 2 no matter what though. Also, I'm still not actually over my sickness by any means.

They are not silly reasons. Simply being the least Townie player in the game is reason enough to lynch you D1, you must see that?

I understand you've been sick, but will you be able to participate more and convince me you're town before the end of day? If the answer is no, then I will lock my vote onto you.

[Luca Blight]

Fmpov, a lack of Town play.

Why do you SR me?

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Natsu

L-1

No-one hammer until Marv has had a chance to catch-up.

[Luca Blight]

Can you explain your reads?

[Luca Blight]

UNVOTE:

I'm willing to give you time to expand on your points and explain why Natsu is Town.

[Luca Blight]

Hammer intent before deadline for sake of not non-lynching if this wagon persists. Expecting Natsu to flip town; if we're lynching off of non-town play, DkK would be a better candidate.

Here are some questions regarding if Natsu D1 lynch goes through;
1) What do you expect his flip to be, what level of confidence?
2) If he flips scum, who's the partner and why?
3) If town, which players are more likely to be scum come D2 off of D1 interactions?

Btw, I feel answering these questions pre-flip only helps scum with regards to night actions and planning for D2.

[Luca Blight]

I don't want Marv to be in a position where he feels he has to go along with what's already been decided.

If he wants to have a go at me or Koba then he can feel free - it will be beneficial to see what he has to say without being rushed.

[Luca Blight]

If we give intent now he could go afk for a day and a half. Then we have to get a replacement. Do we take the L-1 away while the replacement comes and gets caught up with the remaining day and a half?

There's no reason to assume bad sportsmanship from Natsu.

If he did replace out then the deadline would be extended anyway.

[Luca Blight]

There is no rush for him.... He is calling natsu town. If he changes his mind and hammers natsu without giving intent im voting his shit in tomorrow with no regret.

I don't expect him to hammer without warning, I just want him to be able to express his thoughts without thinking his TR is a lost cause already.

I welcome him to have a go at me and Koba. I'm still willing to be open-minded about this lynch.

[Luca Blight]

That’s a pretty accurate representation of my reads right now, maybe with Pikachu down slightly below Spy.

I don’t see any problem with the posts you quoted, however. They were regarding two low content slots while I was catching up, and that was all I had to say about them at that time.

I feel like if thats the worst of my posts then I’ve probably done very little of what you are accusing me of.

[Luca Blight]

Why would I be uncooperative just because he scumreads me?

Your counter to my vote didn’t move me at all, Hectic, which is why I didn’t respond. It still felt like it was done for towncred, but you’re obviously not going to admit that even it’s true.

[Luca Blight]

Lol. Well I haven't seen anyone besides Spy who thinks you're s/s with me. I have noticed that Luca is pretty floppy as well.

Floppy how?

[Luca Blight]

I don’t really like how Marv writes the entire Luca v Pikachu interaction off as NAI - that just seems an entirely lazy way to skip over it without having to take it into consideration.

[Luca Blight]

At least he admits he picked the quotes out on a biased way, as that was most certainly the case.

Like, he took two reads, the two lowest content slots in the game, to demonstrate that I’ve lacked commitment in my reads; entirely ignoring the other six players I’ve given concrete opinions on.

[Luca Blight]

He took two null reads*

[Luca Blight]

I still want to give Marv time to solidify his reads on everyone before I commit to my vote.

[Luca Blight]

Like how with Pikachu you had conversations that reached the boiling point but then you don't seem to be scumreading them lately.

I said he came off well in his interaction with Spy.

You wanted me dead but now TR me. Are you a flopper as well?

[Luca Blight]

I want to give Marv the time to solidify his reads on everyone.

What’s the rush?

[Luca Blight]

Would it hurt to give him a bit more time?

We’re not going to run out of time. Hearing his thoughts and opinions today will have more long-term benefits than simply rushing the lynch through.

[Luca Blight]

Yes, 24 hours is fair.

[Luca Blight]

I want to have more information about his reads.

Obviously we disagree here and are just going to go in circles. I’ll give him maximum 24 hours more before voting.

[Luca Blight]

I would understand if he has said I'm gonna wait to vote till I catch up or something. But he has already put a vote out. He isn't concerned with the current wagons. I don't see how you are not voting right now. It is kinda worrying like you are trying too hard to be "fair".

It’s standard practice to allow replacements ample time to catch up before ending the day.

[Luca Blight]

I kinda assume he isn’t a pr tbh based on his despondent attitude.

[Luca Blight]

Ok make it 15 hours then, to allow time for a possible claim.

[Luca Blight]

I kinda assume he isn’t a pr tbh based on his despondent attitude.

Why are you so afraid of him being surprise hammered by marv then?

Why do you keep saying this? I’ve already told you this isn’t the case.

[Luca Blight]

There is no rush for him.... He is calling natsu town. If he changes his mind and hammers natsu without giving intent im voting his shit in tomorrow with no regret.

I don't expect him to hammer without warning, I just want him to be able to express his thoughts without thinking his TR is a lost cause already.

I welcome him to have a go at me and Koba. I'm still willing to be open-minded about this lynch.

[Luca Blight]

I really just dont get this play by you luca. Marv has already done catch up post. And put a vote on someone.

I want to see his reasons for all his reads, and to reply to what I’ve said.

I don’t know why you don’t get this.

[Luca Blight]

This is futile. I’m done with this conversation.

[Luca Blight]

There’s only so many times I can say the same thing.

[Luca Blight]

Catching up when a lynch is decided is not the same as catching up when your reads might have some immediate relevance. I’ve explained this already. I’m happy to lynch Natsu, but I want to hear what Marv has to say first. This is standard practice when someone replaces in near the end of the day.

[Luca Blight]

I’ve said nothing new during this conversation - everything I’ve said I said already when you questioned me earlier about it.

[Luca Blight]

If you read his post he clearly hasn’t finished his catch up. I also want to see how he reacts to what i said and I want his reasons for his other reads.

[Luca Blight]

I’m increasingly getting the feeling you haven’t even read his posts.

[Luca Blight]

We can see from this post where Marv’s focus was going to be, due to the seemingly inevitable lynch.

Hammer intent before deadline for sake of not non-lynching if this wagon persists. Expecting Natsu to flip town; if we're lynching off of non-town play, DkK would be a better candidate.

Here are some questions regarding if Natsu D1 lynch goes through;
1) What do you expect his flip to be, what level of confidence?
2) If he flips scum, who's the partner and why?
3) If town, which players are more likely to be scum come D2 off of D1 interactions?

Only after I unvoted to allow Marv time to catch up properly did he vote me and further explain his reasons.

[Luca Blight]

Ontop of that they havent really mentioned me in their post so not much for me to really respond to. I can only read them and get reads off of them. They havent even responded to my post directly addressing them.

It seems odd to me, then, that you aren’t more curious about what he has to say.

I get your point about a possible PR claim, but your overreaction to this situation has been odd to say the least. You seem to be very on edge for some reason.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Natsu

Fuck it, let’s just get a claim anyway so we know where we stand.

L-1

[Luca Blight]

I’m V/LA this weekend but will try to review soon.

[Luca Blight]

The difference is that Marv was scumreading me and voting me, while ignoring that whole interaction and making out i hadn’t done much, which felt like convenient cherry-picking.

[Luca Blight]

I’m fine with this plan.

VOTE: R1

L-1

[Luca Blight]

Hopefully this ends the game.

If not, everyone request a fast night so we can get it done.

[Luca Blight]

During the early stages of this game, the 1982 game was at the end of D1 with the lynch still up in the air, so I was obviously going to prioritize that game.

If I’m in multiple games I always tend to prioritize the ones where deadline is approaching, regardless of alignment.

[Luca Blight]

we've basically swept both games we were in tho Luca so even if we drive each other crazy somthing is working LOL

Yes, and you did a good job of turning the JT slot around in the other game, similar to Spy in this game.

The 1982 game was also an easy Town win. I almost miss the suspense lol.

[Luca Blight]

I’m actually scum. Just wanted to get one mislynch down lol.

Fast night so we can end this.

[Luca Blight]

Still four votes anyway.

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: R1

I’m fine with this plan.

VOTE: R1

L-1

I tr R1 but i'll vote them since its auto. I hardclaim VT since it is autowin. VOTE: R1

VOTE: R1

Choo choo choo

4 votes

[Luca Blight]

I didn’t put much thought into the NK as I knew the game was lost. I put Spy as a placeholder as he was obvtown and forgot about it.

[Luca Blight]

My strategy was to initially buddy Arthur and push against Pikachu, and eventually compromise on Arthur or perhaps someone like dsjstr or Koba. The replace-out screwed that plan, of course, but town played well and there wasn't many avenues for a mislynch ultimately. I couldn't save Natsu without making it obvious I was protecting him.

I thought Natsu started off well, but maybe threw in the towel a bit early. There were opportunities to push the likes of 72, Koba, dsj etc, but he was struggling to find any mud to throw at them. It was just a tricky spot all in all and credit to town for a good performance.

Maybe in hindsight I coasted on the Pikachu conflict a little too long and should have done more to press the 'null' slots myself. By the time I came around to TR'ing Pikachu Natsu was already in a bad spot.