Newbie 1984 - Game Over

[Natsu]

Hello people.

Hi all,
A sheep in wolf's clothing if I ever saw one.

So we're going to lynch actual sheep then just because they look wolfy?

[Natsu]

Oh boy. At first I was going to complain about the SE's not setting Hectic straight for his trash tier posting. But then I realized he was an SE, even though he says he's quite new. Then again in my last game the SE's were the ones making all the questionable moves. Do people typically get worse at mafia the more they play?

Hey, friends!

I'm quite new, so is it okay if I lurk this game and try to learn from the more experienced people? Also, should we mass claim? It could be useful to talk about who we target in the night. I will start: I am the Town Goon. I am not allowed to target anyone in the night.

VOTE: 72offsuit

This is somehow worse than the first post of a person in my last game, which got her massively scumread and lynch-mobbed. You are playing a complete fool on purpose here. I'm guessing you are trying to get an actual vanilla townie newb to be like "hey, it shouldn't say town goon!" and then vote for you because you look like a terrible scum player who just tipped their hand. So I guess I'll go ahead and grant you your wish and vote for you because it's not supposed to say town goon.
VOTE: Hectic

After reading further I find that Hectic actually has thousands of hours of mafia gametime. But I'll keep my vote here to see where he's taking us with this style of posting.

[Natsu]

Also, the mod has missed dkkoba's vote on Hectic in the analysys. Hectic is at L-2.

[Natsu]

Well this is my third game and I have yet to encounter something called memephase in the other two.

[Natsu]

I'm guessing you are trying to get an actual vanilla townie newb to be like "hey, it shouldn't say town goon!" and then vote for you because you look like a terrible scum player who just tipped their hand.

Hey, Natsu. Why do you think scum would employ this strategy?

Specifically to out a town role from someone who contests you. Might make PR hunting easier somehow. No one took the bait though. I don't necessarily see it as scummy at this point in time. As for the questions:

0. Town (finally)
1. I think I prefer playing as town. Too early to tell.
2. I've played two games on this site, both flawless mafia games. Also some Town of Salem and a little irl stuff.
3. Going back in time.
4. The virtual world
5. A fair bit.

[Natsu]

UNVOTE:

This thread moves like 4x faster than my last game. Gonna take some getting used to. I'm liking how Hectic handled pressure so far and I have an early wagon to look at for later.

[Natsu]

I'm guessing you are trying to get an actual vanilla townie newb to be like "hey, it shouldn't say town goon!" and then vote for you because you look like a terrible scum player who just tipped their hand.

Hey, Natsu. Why do you think scum would employ this strategy?

Specifically to out a town role from someone who contests you. Might make PR hunting easier somehow. No one took the bait though. I don't necessarily see it as scummy at this point in time. As for the questions:

0. Town (finally)
1. I think I prefer playing as town. Too early to tell.
2. I've played two games on this site, both flawless mafia games. Also some Town of Salem and a little irl stuff.
3. Going back in time.
4. The virtual world
5. A fair bit.

I'm getting a bit of a bad vibe off this post.
a) The "finally" seems very forced
b) I don't get why its too early to tell. You give me the feelings of a player who has played mafia (in whatever form be it IRL or fast-browser based mafia) a fair bit. I'd be very surprised for someone to not know what alignment they prefer playing as.

I've literally never played town before. I've played like one game of IRL mafia with like 6 people and no power roles, and I was really good at winning that game as town, but that's technically not the same as forum mafia. Town of Salem is also not really comparable. I treat forum mafia very differently.

[Natsu]

So far I'm townleaning Hectic and Round one. Hectic has some eccentric, well-honed style of geniusness that is producing information earlier on. Although I'm really not liking the weird naming schemes he's using. Half the time I have no idea who he is talking about. Who is jaiden?

Round One has an idgaf posting style, and overall looks like they know what they're talking about.

I'm kind of scumleaning pikachu, but that might be due to how shallowly he is bumping heads with Round One.

Scumleaning Luca as well for being afk, while only coming out of it to pocket Arthur and myself.

Pretty much null-reading everyone else. I'm finding it pretty silly that people are bringing up scum teams this early. Also, this thread moves too fast at times. I'm hoping the massive amounts of tiny one-line posts dies out. I feel like mass-spamming the thread helps mafia more (looking at pikachu especially on this one). More than town players who say literally nothing. There's shit that I swear I saw of value that I can't even find again after rebrowsing the thread. Guess I'll have to take more frivolous notes.

[Natsu]

What do you think of 49, Natsu? After rereading it, I have several problems with it.

You have *several* problems with it? I'll say it looks feigned, but I can't think of too much else, especially when there isn't much else to go on with Arthur. I've actually read the game Mountain in full that he was a part of. I guess this one post in particular looks a bit out of character. His advice for last game was to trust his instincts and not to hide as a PR. Maybe you're just leading my thinking here, but he does seem overly sensitive to near-lynch wagons both here, 50, and 51. Says he's okay with policy lynching eventually (not a good sign). Speaks authoritatively about a "very common" mafia tactic even though it's his second game. Oh and he also never analyzed dkkoba who I believe was on that wagon. Shit, I guess I do have a lot of problems with it as well.

For the record, I wasn't worried about an early L-1 because a lol-hammer would basically be an admission of guilt. I can't fathom even a newbie town player being the one to hammer on day 1 of day 1.

[Natsu]

Not a fan of 80 and the constant emphasis on never rolling town before

Some nice narrative-weaving here by the electric mouse pokemon. I literally only "emphasized" that in two posts, the second of which was when I was asked to clarify to some extent.

[Natsu]

Cool now I don't like 208 either so that's three reasons

What was the second reason again?

[Natsu]

What was the second reason again?

80

I thought that was the first reason? What would be the first one then?

[Natsu]

@Hectic I'm guessing you just skimmed his iso? Don't see how you could read his whole game in about 7 minutes.

[Natsu]

Who is Boon? Can you just use peoples' real names instead of spreading scummy ambiguity?

[Natsu]

Cool, I'm not here to join any townblocks. I'm guessing that's some kind of town clique? Seems more like building your own tomb.

[Natsu]

What was the second reason again?

80

Not a fan of 80 and the constant emphasis on never rolling town before

1 - Not a fan of 80

You're gonna have to work harder than that. Everyone is laughing at you Mr. Pikachu.

[Natsu]

What timezone is Arthur in by the way?

[Natsu]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

Because at least one of them rolled scum and possibly both

B

This is not saying you're scum because you didn't answer rqs, it's saying you didn't answer rqs because you're scum. And it was also half joking

notice how his scumreads are the people hectic called out for absolutely no reason
interesting

The interplay between Hectic and Pikachu has been sending off alarms in my head. I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed it. I guess it's because all the SE's have played with each other before. Pikachu is really reaching in most of his scumreads, and seems to be crafting narratives out of nothing.

@72offsuit, honestly look at Pikachu's iso and tell me how on earth you see it as being a townread? He looks like a sharper version of my scum partner from last game.

[Natsu]

So far I'm townleaning Hectic and Round one. Hectic has some eccentric, well-honed style of geniusness that is producing information earlier on. Although I'm really not liking the weird naming schemes he's using. Half the time I have no idea who he is talking about. Who is jaiden?

Round One has an idgaf posting style, and overall looks like they know what they're talking about.

I'm kind of scumleaning pikachu, but that might be due to how shallowly he is bumping heads with Round One.

Scumleaning Luca as well for being afk, while only coming out of it to pocket Arthur and myself.

Pretty much null-reading everyone else. I'm finding it pretty silly that people are bringing up scum teams this early. Also, this thread moves too fast at times. I'm hoping the massive amounts of tiny one-line posts dies out. I feel like mass-spamming the thread helps mafia more (looking at pikachu especially on this one). More than town players who say literally nothing. There's shit that I swear I saw of value that I can't even find again after rebrowsing the thread. Guess I'll have to take more frivolous notes.

Not really liking the amount of filler in this post.

Why would you scumread me for being afk?

As for pocketing, do you not think my ‘townie point’ in your favour was warranted?

I'm not liking the amount of filler in this entire game.
I wasn't scumreading for being afk, it was moreso the fact that you seemed like you weren't afk by necessity. The fact that you could walk in and upvote some people and then return to your slumber felt off to me, but I could be wrong as you were maybe biding your time.
As for if I think the "town point" was warranted. I don't really care. It's not like you gave me a reason for why you liked that post.

What do you think of 49, Natsu? After rereading it, I have several problems with it.

You have *several* problems with it? I'll say it looks feigned, but I can't think of too much else, especially when there isn't much else to go on with Arthur. I've actually read the game Mountain in full that he was a part of. I guess this one post in particular looks a bit out of character. His advice for last game was to trust his instincts and not to hide as a PR. Maybe you're just leading my thinking here, but he does seem overly sensitive to near-lynch wagons both here, 50, and 51. Says he's okay with policy lynching eventually (not a good sign). Speaks authoritatively about a "very common" mafia tactic even though it's his second game. Oh and he also never analyzed dkkoba who I believe was on that wagon. Shit, I guess I do have a lot of problems with it as well.

For the record, I wasn't worried about an early L-1 because a lol-hammer would basically be an admission of guilt. I can't fathom even a newbie town player being the one to hammer on day 1 of day 1.

This feels like Natsu is allowing himself to be lead into a SR on Arthur.

I also don’t think the points he raises are really scum indicative. And this post has a lamist feel to it.

I knew what I was doing with that post. I even mentioned myself what you commented here. Don't think I'm dumb enough to hammer Arthur off of something like this. In actuality I'm barely 50%ing him for town/scum.

I also don’t like how Natsu has scumreads but is currently not voting anyone. He’s playing a bit nicey-nicey and seems to be hedging his bets with his scumread on me/Arthur as well as his recent shading of Hectic and Pikachu. It’s like he’s seeing which side the coin falls before committing himself to a push.

Scum-lean.

Excuse me but I intentionally helped get Hectic to L-1 in order to have a wagon to analyze. I believe it was Pikachu who said that wagon analysis is overrated (another reason I'm suspect of him, I could have easily lost my last game as scum if people just stared at the L-1 wagons long enough). In general though, I tend not to like placing votes unless I have a very specific purpose for it. Also, these are your words:

Simply put, i vote when it feels natural to do so.

And he didn’t mention anything about me v Pikachu, which should have been of interest to him given it was scumread v scumread from his pov.

When I said

I guess it's because all the SE's have played with each other before. Pikachu is really reaching in most of his scumreads, and seems to be crafting narratives out of nothing.

I felt I was clearly taking your interaction into account, just not naming it specifically.

I don’t like Pikachu because it feels like he’s making a show of supposed ‘solving’ which doesn’t ring true. He’s just putting together a convenient set of reads based on not much, while having an unnatural sense of confidence in them.

My thoughts exactly, which leads me to think you're not scum with him. Even though the bickering you two had seemed manufactured, Pikachu is doing that with everyone he scumreads. The way you call him out here kind of seems to cross the line between distancing and nearly bussing (if town piles onto Pikachu of course). Or this could be a high level play of some sort.

~Moving onto other players. I still feel like Hectic is a townlean. The tunneling on Arthur could be a scum move.
@Hectic: You mentioned a tonal difference between Arthur in this game and in Mountain. Can you point out anything specific?
Round One seems towny enough to me, as does dkkoba.
I'm having a hard time reading 72offsuit. And dsjstr hasn't posted enough to make a read on him.

I feel good about leaving a vote on Pikachu for the time being.
VOTE: DetectivePikachu

[Natsu]

In what way did my bickering with Pikachu seem manufactured, Natsu?

You start it in a really plain way (your RVS vote was too serious). Most of the conversation is filler and it seems to absolve you of two criticisms that people have had: Lurking and not answering the query.

[Natsu]

Pikachu + Luca. I see the SE's are doing a bang-up job on teaching us newbies how it's done.

No but seriously I want both of you dead so this game can get under control.

I'm feeling better about Arthur's slot with IMASPY in it now. I am noticing that I am getting scum-read fairly often by multiple different people, which honestly runs counter to my scum games where I think I was scumleaned only once during RVS. I guess that makes sense.

For the record I usually post on weekends but I ended up with a cold. Been mostly observing when I have the energy.

[Natsu]

Still sick but just checking in, obviously not paying too much attention as I'm bed-ridden, but I glanced through.

Spy started off strong but then they voted for me. I don't care about the vote itself but moreso the fact that he wants to just lynch me and get it over with. Seems really sure of himself. I still can't say I'm SRing him more than Pikachu though.

The wagons are interesting right now, with Pikachu and Spy being at L-2 a piece, and each of them voting for me and R1 separately.

@72offsuit: I've heard your scum reads on me. How come your vote is on Spy? What makes him scummier than I am?

[Natsu]

Actually on reassessment I guess that was an old placeholder vote that you just haven't gotten around to moving yet.

[Natsu]

Truth be told I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. My other games on this site were done by this page count. Part of why I SR Pikachu so hard is because of how much they overpopulate the game with pointless posts that amount to bickering. I'm not even talking about the recent developments with Luca; he's been like that the whole game. It makes it really hard for me to even try and solve when there's so much immaterial to sift through.

My biggest town read is Hectic. Main reason is that he is very clearly not weaving narratives out of nothing and hoping other townies take the bait. Instead, he is mostly questioning the reasoning for other peoples' reads. Pikachu is very often planting the seeds for others to scumread people without making a strong case from the get-go. He'll get on people for "0 solving" while doing nothing himself, other than saying things like "not a fan of this post." Or, "dsj can be green." Looking at his iso is a mess and just overcomplicates the game. I don't think we have any chance of parsing strong leads with him in the game. I really don't get why anyone has a townread on Pikachu unless they know his playstyle. Luca said it best already:

I don’t like Pikachu because it feels like he’s making a show of supposed ‘solving’ which doesn’t ring true. He’s just putting together a convenient set of reads based on not much, while having an unnatural sense of confidence in them.

That's most of what I've been focusing on. I'm townreading Luca and 72offsuit, even though they are scumreading me. Mainly because a lot of their reads on me have solid substance, I just don't think they know the kind of player I am.

dkkoba and dsjstr have been nulls. But dkkoba's middle of the wagon vote seems like a cozy way to push me to a lynch. I can foresee this type of vote not running into as much flak as Pikachu's or Spy's once I flip green. dkkoba is mainly going off of tone it seems. I'll admit I'm kind of doing that with R1 as well, but the way he sees both R1 and Pikachu's tones as townie is alarming to me.

I find dsjstr's scumteam of me and Hectic odd. He has never really explained this despite the pestering.

Spy is interesting and I don't know what to make of them.

Listen to me all i have a plan... we should go no further in discussion. Kill nastu.... if he flips green then if what happens tonight happens etc etc etc i think you guys will go into day 3 with atleast 1 mafia killed.

I really don't like this "I have a plan, just go along with this guys" thing. I'm guessing it involves lynching me and then Pikachu. No idea what he's on about with "what happens tonight."

Can you explain your scum reads on both me and Pikachu?

[Natsu]

@dkkoba do you have any reads at all that aren't tone-based?

And I get that you're drunk and almost don't even want to reply to this, but your reasoning is dumb. You never even asked me to join your townblocc.

alright i want hectic, DP, and r1 in my townblocc, what do yall say to that

[Natsu]

I said both you and Pikachu. This was said at one of the heights of the filler discussions you two were happening. I think you actually have the capacity to be active in solving but Pikachu is a bad influence and is siphoning all of your energy.

I went back and looked at most of your scumreads on me. You're actually really substantiating your points and not just throwing out random lines to see if others take the bait. I'm not going to even pretend that I don't look scummy in some of the things you bring up. Specifically some of my lamist posts have landed me in the pressure cooker, but you at least see Pikachu as the bigger threat.

[Natsu]

@Spy you quoted my question but forgot to answer it btw.

[Natsu]

Actually i am the one that lead the charge on Natsu.

Whats going on with your read of me 72?

I feel like people lead the charge on me for my RQS answers. You just came in and said Natsu/Hectic after I have had several interactions with people scumreading me.

[Natsu]

782

He emphasizes a townread on Luca, who hasn't actually joined the wagon on him and who was at the time still voting his counter-wagon

I am pretty sure I didn't TR Luca until much more recently, are you saying I am now TRing him after he jumped on your wagon?

@Spy I still don't see how you would assume you would be killed when there are far more obv-town people who have never been voted for a considerable length.

[Natsu]

782

He emphasizes a townread on Luca, who hasn't actually joined the wagon on him and who was at the time still voting his counter-wagon

I am pretty sure I didn't TR Luca until much more recently, are you saying I am now TRing him after he jumped on your wagon?

@Spy I still don't see how you would assume you would be killed when there are far more obv-town people who have never been voted for a considerable length.

This post is giving me a bad vibe.
It sounds like you are saying you cant Remember what sort of read You had on luca. I would expect you to have at least some feel for where playersie on the town to scum scale. Only scum has to 'remember'.

It's a famous Mark Twain quote:

If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything

Its like you arent looking for tells, but are rather just artificially coming up with reads.

I'm remembering the order of events, not whether I did or didn't say something. Obviously I would need to go back and check the ordering to verify, but I feel like shit so I have no energy to do research.

It's funny how almost every single post I make is giving people a bad vibe. Almost like there's a narrative that's been weaved that's making people look at me as scum!natsu more often than not and reading too deeply into my posts.


In other news, I just realized why IMASPY's logic on him getting night killed is so bad. He said that if I get lynched as scum then my scum partner is going to kill him. But that doesn't make sense because I would think scum would want to kill the hard to lynch players. In that scenario, who would be the hardest to lynch player in the gamestate? I want to see if you can answer me that.

[Natsu]

Yall really don't want to wait until doro replacement says anything at all?

[Natsu]

782

He emphasizes a townread on Luca, who hasn't actually joined the wagon on him and who was at the time still voting his counter-wagon

I am pretty sure I didn't TR Luca until much more recently, are you saying I am now TRing him after he jumped on your wagon?

@Spy I still don't see how you would assume you would be killed when there are far more obv-town people who have never been voted for a considerable length.

This post is giving me a bad vibe.
It sounds like you are saying you cant Remember what sort of read You had on luca. I would expect you to have at least some feel for where playersie on the town to scum scale. Only scum has to 'remember'.

It's a famous Mark Twain quote:

If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything

Its like you arent looking for tells, but are rather just artificially coming up with reads.

I'm remembering the order of events, not whether I did or didn't say something. Obviously I would need to go back and check the ordering to verify, but I feel like shit so I have no energy to do research.

It's funny how almost every single post I make is giving people a bad vibe. Almost like there's a narrative that's been weaved that's making people look at me as scum!natsu more often than not and reading too deeply into my posts.


In other news, I just realized why IMASPY's logic on him getting night killed is so bad. He said that if I get lynched as scum then my scum partner is going to kill him. But that doesn't make sense because I would think scum would want to kill the hard to lynch players. In that scenario, who would be the hardest to lynch player in the gamestate? I want to see if you can answer me that.

If you were lynched and scum.... I would be the hardest player to lynch. I started the read on you being scum.

I would think Pikachu would be the obv-town player in that scenario. In what way does it make sense for pikachu to ever be scum-read again after hard-bussing their partner on day 1 in like 15% of their posts?

[Natsu]

Ama while I'm here, you caught me at a good time

[Natsu]

I'm assuming I'm at L-1 btw anyways.

[Natsu]

Scum:
Pikachu
dkkoba

Null:
Spy
R1 maybe
dsjstr

Town:
Offsuit (close to moving into null)
Luca
Hectic

[Natsu]

He's relying on tone, apologizing for not doing anything because he feels out of place (excuse to lurk). And inserts himself into the middle of wagons which I think is the least likely to draw attention.

[Natsu]

I've barely skimmed this game, if that, since like page 22. I've been going off of gut reactions mostly. Cutting out Pikachu has been my main concern of course.

[Natsu]

I'm on break so can't properly respond to anything but I'm already not a fan of DP's stupid gimmick

alright i want hectic, DP, and r1 in my townblocc, what do yall say to that

1) If koba was scum, don't you think he could decide on whether he was trying to pocket me or not? That's a pretty big shift in approaches for scum to make in early game

2) Do you think townblocking in early game is town indicative?

1. That just makes him look even more like your partner to be honest. Placing you in the center of his friend list, and he probably just forgot about that other flippant comment which was probably just to go along with the sentiment everyone has with you.

2. I have never heard of townblock, have no idea what it is, and have no clue what applications it has on a game of mafia.

[Natsu]

I guess I would have to see it in action. It sounds really dangerous to be honest. What if you townblock scum? Especially if you're doing it shortly after RVS.

[Natsu]

Maybe the particular posts you cherry picked won't be scum inducive, but I still don't like how his vote on me has no reasoning. And no one even called it out proper.

[Natsu]

But he never asked me to join it, or maybe I'm not understanding.

[Natsu]

Why not Pikachu? He's had just as big of a push and has had far more interactions to dissect?

[Natsu]

Hardly. I posted my scumreads of AC/Natsu/R1 and urself back on pg12, p275. 0 votes on natsu at that stage.
So you stating im eyeing suspected slots is total BS.

I was heavily scumread by then, just without votes.

[Natsu]

Natsu, you seem very passive despite being the main wagon. Why is this?

I’m still considering the possibility that you might be Town, but you seem to have given up.

There's not much left for me to say. Several players have me massively scumread for what I think amounts to silly reasons. We'll probably lynch scum by day 2 no matter what though. Also, I'm still not actually over my sickness by any means.

[Natsu]

782 goes over the post I have the biggest problem with

that and right now he kinda just feels like caught scum?

Seriously? That late ass post? You were hard-tunneling long before then.

Natsu, you seem very passive despite being the main wagon. Why is this?

I’m still considering the possibility that you might be Town, but you seem to have given up.

There's not much left for me to say. Several players have me massively scumread for what I think amounts to silly reasons. We'll probably lynch scum by day 2 no matter what though. Also, I'm still not actually over my sickness by any means.

They are not silly reasons. Simply being the least Townie player in the game is reason enough to lynch you D1, you must see that?

I understand you've been sick, but will you be able to participate more and convince me you're town before the end of day? If the answer is no, then I will lock my vote onto you.

From my standpoint I just don't mesh with this group of players at all. You guys are way too spammy for my tastes. Day 1 should never get past page 15. I would easily policy lynch so many people in this game on Day 1 if I played with them again. I just cannot tolerate the insane levels of one-liner and filler post activity in this game and it has completely destroyed my interest in it.

[Natsu]

My last game had a thousand times more pressure than this one with more wagons, and 1,000% less posts.

[Natsu]

VOTE: Natsu

L-1

No-one hammer until Marv has had a chance to catch-up.

That's not L-1, that's hammer

[Natsu]

Oh I forgot offsuit jumped off me

[Natsu]

I kind of don't want to go to bed now because I am very much thinking offsuit is going to hammer without warning.

[Natsu]

I'll wait for more from doro replacement. Maybe offsuit won't hammer.

[Natsu]

I'm not liking how Marv wants to hammer a town read, but he's also got some opinions that no one else seems to be sharing like scumread on Luca.
Round One also has removed herself from the endgame of Day 1 completely, which is awkward considering she scumreads Pikachu and the leading wagon is Pikachu's doing.

I'm willing to compromise on a 72offsuit lynch over Pikachu. He has been on top of me but is still voting for spy. I think IMASPY is town more and more to be honest. He's making good calls about hammer policy, and seems to have a plan moving into day 2 even if it sounds ambiguous. I really don't think he's scum, and if he is, I think it would be much easier to pinpoint at a later time anyways. Offsuit's vote on him seems like he's trying to let the hammer fall on me so he isn't on my wagon when I flip green. Next to Pikachu, he's about tied with Luca in terms of pressure he has applied with me, but he just isn't voting me like the other two and it makes him look scummy in all honesty.

[Natsu]

Lol. Well I haven't seen anyone besides Spy who thinks you're s/s with me. I have noticed that Luca is pretty floppy as well.

[Natsu]

Like how with Pikachu you had conversations that reached the boiling point but then you don't seem to be scumreading them lately.

[Natsu]

Lol. Well I haven't seen anyone besides Spy who thinks you're s/s with me. I have noticed that Luca is pretty floppy as well.

Hmmm, this wasn't the response I was hoping to see. You're comforting me in a way which is saying "don't worry if I flip scum, only one person sees both of us as scum" rather than simply saying "that's not gonna happen; I'm town"

Well it's pretty uncanny how I am seen as categorically scummy for basically everything I have ever said in this game. I would think real scum wouldn't look scummy *all* the damn time, which is how I feel like I'm being perceived.