Newbie 1984 - Game Over

[Detective Pikachu]

Pika. Pikapika. Pikachu. Chu. chuchu pika pikachu.

pika: pikapika

[Detective Pikachu]

PIII-KAAA-CHUUUUUU

VOTE: Arthurconyl

[Detective Pikachu]

0) Are you town or scum?

Pikachu!

1) Do you prefer playing town or scum?

Pikachu!

2) What is your experience with playing mafia? Pikapika pikachu!
3) If you could have a super power, what would you pick?

Pikachu used Quick Attack!

4) What is your ideal location to live in?

Pikachu!

5) How excited are you to play this game?

Pikachu!

6) If you could ask other players another question, what would that question be? VOTE: ArthurConyl?

[Detective Pikachu]

72offsuit

Luca Blight (SE)
Hectic (SE)
DkKoba

ROUND ONE

dsjstr
Natsu

ArthurConyl

[Detective Pikachu]

...

chu chu chu

Spoiler:

If you need help setting up an avatar, let us know! Having an avatar is important to helping people recognize who is posting. I strongly discourage leaving the newbie queue without completing this fundamental step of setting up your account!

[Detective Pikachu]

2. Why are dsjstr, Natsu and I considered scummy?

Normally a weird post like this would be considered scummy, listing everyone like you're so smart and not even giving justification? But then again I can't work out if you're scum or just making a bad play.

A - chu chu chu

Spoiler:

Ranked readings lists are not weird and don't imply intelligence, only impressions

B - chu chu

Spoiler:

Why would giving my take off RVS posts be a "bad play"?

[Detective Pikachu]

Hello people.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
?

[Detective Pikachu]

ROUND ONE
ArthurConyl

dsjstr
Natsu

VOTE: Natsu

Spoiler:

Arthur I like your recent posts. Could you do me a favor though and please get an avatar to placate my OCD?

[Detective Pikachu]

ROUND ONE
ArthurConyl
Luca

ebwop

Spoiler:

ebwop is "Edit by way of post"

[Detective Pikachu]

Actually I'm indecisive

VOTE: Luca

[Detective Pikachu]

I just want to point out that DP and Hectic are probably the best two players in here XD

Au contraire!

[Detective Pikachu]

What is 61?

[Detective Pikachu]

nvm actually I don't hate it

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: Luca

Pikachu!

[Detective Pikachu]

The double vote tags were townie

[Detective Pikachu]

Wait, wait... can you understand me?

[Detective Pikachu]

Are you seriously taking someone whose name can be shortened to R1 and nicknaming her Ronda instead?

[Detective Pikachu]

I'm not sure what to do with self-vote open immediately followed by normal RVS but thought the "its memephase" explanation of the gamestate was ~ok? gonna need more before I decide there

[Detective Pikachu]

I investigated Luca night 0 and learned he was part of the mafia, we should all speed wagon him :3 :3 :3

[Detective Pikachu]

actually just based on Hectic's tone post being pushed via the votes I want to put some pressure on Arthur VOTE: ArthurConyl

He also doesn't have an avi which in my experience is 100% confirmation that someone is scum in this queue

[Detective Pikachu]

also don't know what to do with him putting himself in the middle of his list near the null line LOL

[Detective Pikachu]

tells you more about temperament than alignment, although temperament in the grand scheme can be AI

[Detective Pikachu]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

Because at least one of them rolled scum and possibly both

[Detective Pikachu]

RQS gets 'em every time, nice shootin tiger

[Detective Pikachu]

@Hectic

...

Spoiler:

[Detective Pikachu]

*yawn* dp is condescending as fuck god

?

[Detective Pikachu]

block done
is anyone here to talk to or

also these day lengths god

Its a maximum not a requirement

[Detective Pikachu]

don't like r1's catchup tbh but luca is still top scum

[Detective Pikachu]

Your solving is a bit superficial and overly focused on playstyle whereas luca is just not solving at all so far

[Detective Pikachu]

Dsj can go up to yellow, arthur probably goes back down to orange

[Detective Pikachu]

What's your take on luca rn?

[Detective Pikachu]

More and more baffled by the "condescending" post from r1 lol

[Detective Pikachu]

If you scumread everyone who doesn't play the way you want them to play you will always have a wealth of scumreads and a graveyard full of green

[Detective Pikachu]

Tosfm?

[Detective Pikachu]

What's your take on luca rn?

@r1

[Detective Pikachu]

Town of salem... forum mafia?

[Detective Pikachu]

What's your take on luca rn?

@r1

I'll be honest
I dont think ive seen anything notable from them
have they like
posted at all
or is my memory just making me bad again

This is your take on someone who is fully capable of obvtowning by page 20 fyi

He rolled scum is my current thought

If I'm wrong on him I was probably right about arthur given his weird list, but it's probably just luca

[Detective Pikachu]

R1 can be dark green

[Detective Pikachu]

hey could be worse, they could be from epicmafia

I refuse to believe epicmafia is real despite being on it
there is worse
the worse mafia community ive ever seen is technically my fault
so thats fun

What community is that?

[Detective Pikachu]

is this what all games are like here or

What is this game like?

[Detective Pikachu]

I alternate checking here with chapters in my book

Yeahhh well this is actually really fast for newbie queue standards although usually it's a bit more content rich too

Depends on the queue really. Still I think it's easier to read a game like this than one bogged down in wallposts sooooo

[Detective Pikachu]

An alter after my own heart lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Yean scum seem to have taken red in their pms as an invitation not to play unfortunately

[Detective Pikachu]

Ngl lurksack towns are one of the two main issues of this site, the other being egomaniac spam posters ;P

[Detective Pikachu]

Hectic join on luca?

[Detective Pikachu]

ROUND ONE
DkKoba

72offsuit
Hectic (SE)

dsjstr

Natsu
ArthurConyl

Luca Blight

[Detective Pikachu]

Conclusions so far (from town to scum):
==========
Everyone else (no order):
Natsu - would be more comfortable if you didn't put Hectic at L-2
DkKoba
72offsuit
ArthurConyl
ROUND ONE
Luca Blight (SE)

like, ok so the second part is literally just copy pasting the OP and taking out the three people he has reads on

if so, a) why start by saying it's town to scum
b) why copy paste the names you're not sorting
c) why keep your own name in the list?

that being said Luca still looks more like frozen scum to me than this, this is more baffling to me than objectively scummy

[Detective Pikachu]

Townbloc's name is Pika-Pals!

(And now R1 wants no part of it lol)

Also sell me on Natsu town

[Detective Pikachu]

Lul, I think he was saying he has no conclusions so far, so left that part blank, and then has all his null reads, and then his "bad player or scum reads".

right, but then why start the post saying it's town to scum

it's like he started doing a reads list then changed his mind and decided to only do scum reads

like "cognitive load" can be a scumtell and if it is that post is scummy; like he planned to do a pro-town reads list but then realized he couldn't decide where he wanted scum buddies so gave up

[Detective Pikachu]

Not a fan of 80 and the constant emphasis on never rolling town before

[Detective Pikachu]

ftr I strongly considered lolhammering Hectic and nearly did when he mentioned I didn't RVS him this game even though I'd said I would do so on a different account

I mostly didn't more because I was worried that would be against the spirit of what we're supposed to do in newbie queue lol

[Detective Pikachu]

day 1s are almost categorically too long on this site

[Detective Pikachu]

I've loathed day 1s ever since boon fake claimed masons with my scumread (who was scum), second scum claimed gunsmith, third scum claimed doctor, and I was vig

like there's no way to effectively evaluate claims

scum are always dragged to l-1 and then wagon dissolves and people townread them because "blah blah wagon analysis"

imo game begins day 2 unless the player list is like extraordinarily easy to read

[Detective Pikachu]

Cool now I don't like 208 either so that's three reasons

[Detective Pikachu]

What was the second reason again?

80

[Detective Pikachu]

Not a fan of 80 and the constant emphasis on never rolling town before

1 - Not a fan of 80
2 - Not a fan of emphasis on being town
3 - Not a fan of over-reaction to 201
4 - Not a fan of asking two separate questions about how to read 201

Up to 4 reasons now why Natsu is not townblock material

[Detective Pikachu]

Who is Boon? Can you just use peoples' real names instead of spreading scummy ambiguity?

Boon, aka Boonskiies, aka Flavor Leaf, aka Pretentious, aka Morality, is one of the heavy users of the site who regularly runs large theme games, frequently makes 'weird' plays as town, and won the 3rd party Scummy last year. Most people call him "Boon" because he includes his name in his series of Large Theme games (the "Booneytunes" series)

[Detective Pikachu]

I actually have no problem with Luca+

[Detective Pikachu]

...Arthur. sorry misclick

[Detective Pikachu]

Everyone is laughing at you Mr. Pikachu.

I should hope so! I'm quite a jovial little fellow :3

[Detective Pikachu]

Actually executing policy lynches on this site is tantamount to impossible

[Detective Pikachu]

dsj can be green

[Detective Pikachu]

What was improper about your catchup now?

[Detective Pikachu]

Okie dokie

*hug* you're cool luca sorry you rolled scum this game

[Detective Pikachu]

Mmmm mmmm it can be

I think scum are more likely to pick pointless fights thinking it will make them seem townie

[Detective Pikachu]

:3

It's g luca you're not getting hammered rn come back in a few and show me your solves

[Detective Pikachu]

Mmmm mmmm it can be

I think scum are more likely to pick pointless fights thinking it will make them seem townie

So you’re saying I’m picking a fight by not answering RQS?

Not really but idk you're not trying to socialize either and town early can sometimes be more laid back and you don't feel laid back to me rn

[Detective Pikachu]

It's hard to articulate

Hit me with a reads list when you feel more caught up and organized

[Detective Pikachu]

so you do feel caught up then?

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok but your reasoning for voting me is based on things you think I'm scumreading you for and not the reasons I'm scumreading you for, so it helps to know if you feel caught up or not

In any case I'd still like a reads list when you can

[Detective Pikachu]

Hmm natsu, arthur, and luca all have cognitive load but only 2 are scum

Still ok with luca/arthur for the moment tho

[Detective Pikachu]

Why are you scumreading me, then?

0 solving

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah but then when I invited you to take some solve you decided that the reason you wanted me to be scumreading you was for rqs which I don't even remember talking about so now I feel like you've responded to a 2-man wagon with omgus, strawmanning, and defensiveness. And still 0 solving

Like if you're aware you have a slow start you could come in and solve and be aware people may push you for activity for legitimate reasons but instead you're both aware you're scummy but still feel the need to overreact to the person pushing you

[Detective Pikachu]

Like accusing me of moving the goalposts is silly when you're the one who set up the goalposts; if you didn't understand the reasons for my scumread you'd probably ask. I feel like I was pretty clear that my main problem with you was the lack of obvtowning when I feel you're capable of it

[Detective Pikachu]

I just want to point out that DP and Hectic are probably the best two players in here XD

You do yourself a disservice, dsj!

I guess the other way of saying a lack of socializing would be to say that this feels like a "wolfy pop in" although I don't like that phrase. But the concept is there insofar as up until now you come into the thread, leave 2-3 posts that engage with no one present, and then vanish

[Detective Pikachu]

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

Because at least one of them rolled scum and possibly both

B

This is not saying you're scum because you didn't answer rqs, it's saying you didn't answer rqs because you're scum. And it was also half joking

[Detective Pikachu]

Like that's a while after I state my scumread on you lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Like accusing me of moving the goalposts is silly when you're the one who set up the goalposts; if you didn't understand the reasons for my scumread you'd probably ask. I feel like I was pretty clear that my main problem with you was the lack of obvtowning when I feel you're capable of it

Ah, so I was the one who said I’m scum for avoiding RQS?

I’ve engaged you on all your reasons for SR’ing me, you’re zoning in on that one because you know it’s the most ridiculous and now you’re trying to distance yourself from it.

1- basically, yes
2-engaging me is not what I asked for

[Detective Pikachu]

R1 can you expand on why you see hectic scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

catchup done
ama

R1 can you expand on why you see hectic scum?

no

What sort of ama is this?

[Detective Pikachu]

DAT NINJA THOOOOO

[Detective Pikachu]

R1 can you explain your vote on me?

[Detective Pikachu]

Why do you think I'm scum?

[Detective Pikachu]

Given that spy hasn't caught up yet and he is off my wagon do you mind unvoting me not for the sake of voting me because I"m being "pushed hardest" so that this gamestate doesn't get stupid?

[Detective Pikachu]

Jaiden vanishing rn is making me doubt her place in the townblock even more than her vote did lol

[Detective Pikachu]

So you forget every read when asked to explain but still feel ok l1ing with the opposed wagon off wagon?

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah ok well even if you scumread me you should unvote in this gamestate

[Detective Pikachu]

You're on L-2, Detective.

I'm at l1

[Detective Pikachu]

Oh its 5 to lynch nevermind

[Detective Pikachu]

I have a life

[Detective Pikachu]

your other reason is also BS given I had made 4 RVS posts at that point

ellitells are hit or miss but they aren't always miss

I like Luca's catchup, this is better to pursue: VOTE: Arthur

what do you like about it? he only commits to a townread on you 0.o

Excuse me but I intentionally helped get Hectic to L-1 in order to have a wagon to analyze. I believe it was Pikachu who said that wagon analysis is overrated (another reason I'm suspect of him, I could have easily lost my last game as scum if people just stared at the L-1 wagons long enough).

I didn't say wagon analysis is overrated; I said wagon analysis pre-flip is kinda pointless

~Moving onto other players. I still feel like Hectic is a townlean. The tunneling on Arthur could be a scum move.

?

Even though the bickering you two had seemed manufactured, Pikachu is doing that with everyone he scumreads.

doing what? bickering or having confidence in my reads?

Hectic/Natsu: Scum - Early on I saw them as a pair. I didn't see real attempts at trying to lynch each other, they then tried to distance themselves.

can you identify which posts make you feel this way?

I come back and see 3 votes on Artur but still not Artur, I feel scammed.
Also, I'm moving Luca into a townlean here.

which posts specifically did you like?

R1 sounds very innocent idk how to explain it but their tone is so pure i cant ever vote them here

sure but they look like they're kinda making me lose interest in this game so

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok, but you’ve clearly been posting?

Also, I could have made the same retort when you SR me earlier for popping in every now and then.

I was phone posting because I thought I was at l-1 with a counter-wagon at l-1 and off my wagon

that was the only reason I was posting

anyway I find your catchup underwhelming and I don't really get why you're getting townread for it

[Detective Pikachu]

usually like newbie queue but this is kinda turning into the least interesting game I'm in rn

[Detective Pikachu]

you used a lot of words to say you townleaned r1

so yeah hectic was your only TR

read yourself before you call it a misrep

[Detective Pikachu]

kinda feel like r1 is playing in a deliberately anti-fun manner? this is newbie queue not "play in an intentionally annoying manner" queue

[Detective Pikachu]

like yeah she's probably town but jeeeeeeeez

[Detective Pikachu]

I’ve been V/LA and phone posting since this game started. It feels like you’re making excuses for yourself.

Like now the game is suddenly not interesting enough for your tastes. Are you throwing your toys out of the pram because you’re the main wagon?

sure but you're good enough to post everywhere else on site

and yeah I lose interest when my main fos is basically pure omgus, the people I townread can't be bothered to answer any question about any read, and the other most problematic slot hasn't caught up yet

also taking the most bad-faith response to literally every argument I make is kinda making me stop care about your alignment and just want you dead

[Detective Pikachu]

like, in a world where you're town Luca, this is kinda just... disappointing

[Detective Pikachu]

hypothetical scenario

someone makes two posts
I respond: "I think this person's town"

WHAT A MYSTERY, WHY COULD I HAVE POSSIBLY SAID THAT???????

I DUNNO, SEEMS LIKE SOMEHOW IT MUST BE A TOO EASY MISREP THO

MISREP MISREP MISREP

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu: "Why is Luca posting everywhere on site except here? Why doesn't he care about this game?"

Luca: "WHY ARE YOU SCUMREADING ME FOR NOT ANSWERING RQS QUESTIONS????????"

Pikachu: "Actually I just don't really see you interacting here, but if you've been busy then I'm curious about your solve."

Luca: "YOU'RE MISREPPING ME! YOU SHOULD TOWNREAD ME FOR NOT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT THIS GAME!!!!"

Fuck off

If you're town you're never endgame material for me at this point so what's the difference

[Detective Pikachu]

Luca: "I'm going to quote something by everyone in the game and then commit to not giving a position on them! Also I'm going to take literally every thing Pika says and say it's a misrep even though literally none of it is!"

Town: "Hmm Luca looks town"

Pika:

Spoiler:

[Detective Pikachu]

Luca: *Makes a pocket and two pointless posts*
Pika: Huh Luca seems scummy for just popping in. I even made a post saying I thought it was scummy and he still didn't give a shit or notice
Luca: WHY DO YOU HATE ME FOR NOT ANSWERING RQS???????????

[Detective Pikachu]

I mean you've already annihilated any hope for credibility for me at this point so think what you want

[Detective Pikachu]

literally a misrep

*curb your enthusiasm themes plays*

[Detective Pikachu]

Question for you, Pikachu - do you really believe not answering RQS is AI?

Mmmm mmmm it can be

I think scum are more likely to pick pointless fights thinking it will make them seem townie

So you’re saying I’m picking a fight by not answering RQS?

This is what I mean by ‘forced’ - your read on me feels entirely rushed and fabricated.

You say I’m scum for not answering RQS - I ask why is it scummy, you said because scum sometimes pick fights. I ask ‘was I picking a fight by not answering them’ you’re like ‘not really, but you’re scummy for no socializing and not laid back’.

So you’re moving the goalposts, can’t explain what you even mean by socializing in this context, and SR me for not being laid back, which is normal for someone who is being attacked?

I like my vote here for now.

VOTE: Pikachu

I voted you based on the present conversation we just had, not from having caught up?

Why are you scumreading me, then?

Strawmanning? You literally said I was scum for not answering RQS, don’t try to make out I’m misreppng you.

I’ve defended myself by being defensive? Oh, how awful.

I’ve already said I will catch-up when I get home, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t engage you right now on what I feel is an opportunistic push.

Like accusing me of moving the goalposts is silly when you're the one who set up the goalposts; if you didn't understand the reasons for my scumread you'd probably ask. I feel like I was pretty clear that my main problem with you was the lack of obvtowning when I feel you're capable of it

Ah, so I was the one who said I’m scum for avoiding RQS?

I’ve engaged you on all your reasons for SR’ing me, you’re zoning in on that one because you know it’s the most ridiculous and now you’re trying to distance yourself from it.

Going now, will be back later with my catch-up.

Why aren't you answering the RQS, Arthur and Luca?

I’m above such things.

answered a bad question with a bad answer.
I can't tell if thats what you meant or youre just blatant scum at this point

[Hectic,Luca]
the detective is town because they are like almost never scum with hectic

It was a flippant remark, but the fact is I never answer RQS - I’ve always believed they’re not only useless but anti-Town.

It's seriously like half his iso

and literally no one ever actually gave a shit about it

his other argument being "I have permission to not give a shit or do anything for 10 pages of the game"

which is *an argument* at least in response to the one I was making, even if it's still dumb

[Detective Pikachu]

His entire argument was that I as "moving the goalposts" when I said I never gave a shit about RQS and that he had "responded to all my points" when I said he was not solving in early game with the excuse that basically, he had permission to not give a shit about the game

then argues that because he has responded to "all my points" with the above rationale that therefore I'm scum

If this is coming from town--and don't get me wrong, town can sometimes make arguments this stupid--it's really fucking dumb

like I don't take Luca for a dense potato though so leaning scum still?

[Detective Pikachu]

inb4 Luca screams bloody murder about "misreps"

[Detective Pikachu]

Hectic what do you think of his progression on Natsu?

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu: Luca, please catch up.

Luca: *catches up*

Pikachu: *ignores*

Luca: so....any thoughts?

Pikachu: I have a life, and this game sucks and everyone is playing badly. Your catch-up is underwhelming cos you only TR a quarter of the player list and clearly you should TR 3 quarters at any one time like I do. Stop pointing out my misreps or I’ll misrep you into oblivion in these hilarious portrayals of mine. I’M EVEN GONNA TYPE IN CAPS TO MAKE YOU LOOK EVEN WORSE! TAKE THAT!

Yeah and then I responded to your catchup in like 20 minutes?

Are you fucked or what?

[Detective Pikachu]

Seriously Luca, PLEASE tell me you are actually scum here because these are like some truly dogshit arguments you are making

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu, you have seemingly ignored my catch-up despite your apparent desire for it earlier.

Why is that?

Luca: calls this "Pikachu... any thoughts"

and then has the GALL

to accuse me of misreps

this post reads as "Hey Pikachu you haven't commented to my catchup in the time you were at work, why are you scum?"

Fuck off

[Detective Pikachu]

9 minutes

that is how long it took me to respond to his catchup once I sat down

and he is BITCHING NONSTOP

about how I refused to comment on his catchup

[Detective Pikachu]

Your catch-up is underwhelming cos you only TR a quarter of the player list

ONE PLAYER is not a quarter of the player list

Your read on R1 was wiffly and waffly

You townread Hectic

If you had other townreads, you can reveal the mystery rather than screaming "OMG MISREPPPPPPPPPPP"

[Detective Pikachu]

I did exactly the same to you as you did to me.

I never fucking misrepped you

Not once

[Detective Pikachu]

Seriously if you cannot demonstrate I actually misrepped you in your next post, I'm going to refuse to move my vote from you for the remainder of the game

You can't spam that accusation without substantiating it

[Detective Pikachu]

I have a life

your other reason is also BS given I had made 4 RVS posts at that point

ellitells are hit or miss but they aren't always miss

I like Luca's catchup, this is better to pursue: VOTE: Arthur

what do you like about it? he only commits to a townread on you 0.o

Excuse me but I intentionally helped get Hectic to L-1 in order to have a wagon to analyze. I believe it was Pikachu who said that wagon analysis is overrated (another reason I'm suspect of him, I could have easily lost my last game as scum if people just stared at the L-1 wagons long enough).

I didn't say wagon analysis is overrated; I said wagon analysis pre-flip is kinda pointless

~Moving onto other players. I still feel like Hectic is a townlean. The tunneling on Arthur could be a scum move.

?

Even though the bickering you two had seemed manufactured, Pikachu is doing that with everyone he scumreads.

doing what? bickering or having confidence in my reads?

Hectic/Natsu: Scum - Early on I saw them as a pair. I didn't see real attempts at trying to lynch each other, they then tried to distance themselves.

can you identify which posts make you feel this way?

I come back and see 3 votes on Artur but still not Artur, I feel scammed.
Also, I'm moving Luca into a townlean here.

which posts specifically did you like?

R1 sounds very innocent idk how to explain it but their tone is so pure i cant ever vote them here

sure but they look like they're kinda making me lose interest in this game so

Time between these posts is 9 minutes

Not a misrep

Next?

[Detective Pikachu]

Once this has calmed down I will go through and show all the times you misrepped me in your portrayals,

worse than I did to you

.

So to be clear, you admit you misrepped me

[Detective Pikachu]

Just want to make it crystal clear that you're acting like accusing you of being scum because you refused to play the game for 10 pages is somehow super fucking unreasonable but you choosing to respond to that by intentionally mispressing my posts in a bad-faith manner is somehow fucking ok

Nope. You can die

[Detective Pikachu]

I’m happy for the lynch today to be me or you - that is necessary because at best this is a distraction.

Why is it a distraction? Is it a distraction because I scumread you, or is it a distraction because you responded to a scumread by intentionally misrepresenting my posts--a point you admit?

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah, except *if I disagree* with your characterization, that's not a "misrep" that's a disagreement

Dismissing disagreements as "misreps" is bad-faith and scummy

So I *disagreed* with your interpretation, and you responded by *intentionally misrepresenting my position*

that's scummy.

[Detective Pikachu]

I admit that my portrayal was a misrep in the same manner of yours. That’s why I made it - to give you a piece of your own medicine and show you it sucks to be misrepped.

like j/w but how does this come from a town POV? This is just sickening

And then you act shocked when I'm losing interesting in winning this game for town, I have to at least entertain the possibility you're town and if this is your approach to the game it's really not worth my time. Likewise, if you're scum this is a really fucking annoying tactic to take and you're not worth defeating if this is what you're going to resort to

If you were town and were actually solving me, I'd *like to think* you wouldn't respond to a misguided push by being as shitty as you possibly could for the sake of being as shitty as you possibly can

[Detective Pikachu]

Here you say i quoted everyone without giving a position on anyone. That is a blatant misrep.

Hyperbole is not the same as "misrep"

I had already indicated I knew you claimed a townread on Hectic so this doesn't really make sense as a "misrep"

[Detective Pikachu]

YES, I deliberately misrepped you once because you continually misrepped me about 10 times.

I misrepped you 0 times

[Detective Pikachu]

Here you make out I said you should TR me for not giving a shit about this game. I never said that or anything of the sort, so again you’re misrepping my position.

You gave yourself permission to be absolved of participation in RVS:

Okie dokie

*hug* you're cool luca sorry you rolled scum this game

I haven’t rolled scum.

I’m a slow starter in every game I play, and you’re jumping to the conclusion that I’m scum based on a lack of solving during RVS, which seems forced.

Why are you scumreading me, then?

0 solving

Based entirely on RVS posts, which is what I said before.

Which, as I mentioned, given I could tell you were posting elsewhere on site, made it seem like you didn't give a shit about this game

Since I'm not actually reading your other games, just noticing that you're posting in them, that can reasonably lead me to suspect that you are less excited to solve in this game -- which can in some cases be due to rolling scum

Now it can also be the case that other things were going on (other games more interesting)

But this is not a misrep, this is me responding to the point that you gave a really shitty explanation for skipping 10 pages and then said I was scum for calling you on it

Calling you out on ignoring the thread is not a "misrep" even if YOU think your excuse is justified

Next.

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok, then my portrayal of you was hyperbole, not a misrep .

No, because YOU say you imagined it as a misrep

I was making a point, you were trying to be shitty

There's a pretty big fucking difference there

[Detective Pikachu]

See Luca, here's the problem

Say you convince me that actually the reasons I was scumreading you are bad and that I should move elsewhere

You *were deliberately shitty to me* and that makes me bored with this game because if you're town I have significantly less motivation to prioritize this game and solve the game for you

R1 is also being obstructive, deliberately or not, so yeah, this game is pretty bad right now

[Detective Pikachu]

You were making a shitty point in bad faith,

my point was neither shitty nor in bad faith
-"shitty," I think you are capable of stronger reads than you've demonstrated -- the point is fair, you feel off meta
-"bad faith," I was thinking you were probably scum as a result -- so I was pushing you for the right reasons

[Detective Pikachu]

Hectic has some eccentric, well-honed style of geniusness that is producing information earlier on.

this reads kinda weird for s/s

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu + Luca. I see the SE's are doing a bang-up job on teaching us newbies how it's done.

really though why is this game full of a bunch of condescending pricks?

being new doesn't give you permission to be rude

[Detective Pikachu]

UNVOTE:

no idea who's scum anymore, probably annoyed at too many slots in this game right now to critically evaluate

[Detective Pikachu]

idk
VOTE: Natsu
willing to try this on for size

[Detective Pikachu]

remember how I asked detective some questions while he was around and he completely ignored me

You're capable of experiencing memories about this game?

[Detective Pikachu]

I see 0 relevant questions directed at me in real time that I missed, so I guess not

[Detective Pikachu]

remember how I asked detective some questions while he was around and he completely ignored me

Hey remember that time you got on and had the chance to interact with me in real time, made some false accusations, and then vanished?

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: R1

[Detective Pikachu]

why are you town
why is should the other wagon be lynched over you
and what could make you scum in this scenario

1 - play better and figure it out
2 - that wasn't what I was saying you should do
3 - play better and figure it out

I missed 0 questions that were worth answering

[Detective Pikachu]

called it
I fucking called it

If you poison the well against voting you, then I'll vote you

[Detective Pikachu]

remember how I asked detective some questions while he was around and he completely ignored me

To be clear, you make this comment when you asked me to towncase myself AND scumcase myself

These are the pressing "questions" you feel like I dodged?

[Detective Pikachu]

remember how I asked detective some questions while he was around and he completely ignored me

Hey remember that time you got on and had the chance to interact with me in real time, made some false accusations, and then vanished?

[Detective Pikachu]

holy fuck take it seriously

why is this your tone to me when you refuse to explain your foses when asked about them directly?

if you want to have a real conversation don't treat this game like you're a one-man clown fiesta amnesiac

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like his SR’s/votes on me and R1 are defensive rather than actually believing either of us are scum.

who said I scumread R1?

[Detective Pikachu]

And this feels different to the last time he was in a 1v1 as scum where he went more along with it and was more passive aggressive, it was a different tone basically (talking about Cane, Piakchu).

oh yeah forgot you were in tm

[Detective Pikachu]

Remember when you slated Natsu for being condescending?

I’m sorry but blatant hypocrisy drives me nuts.

why do you let an abstract concept drive your nuts? is that how mr. peanut died?

also anyway, r1 has been aggressively anti-town with the way she's handling her reads and yeah, I'm gonna call her out on asking questions that I wanna say 80% of this site would not answer in that gamestate and then complain about it

[Detective Pikachu]

Pikachu clearly sees himself as a big shot and he’s furious at the thought of being caught D1 in a newbie game.

oh is this why you were complaining about misreps? You got frustrated at being caught d1 in a newbie game?

I feel like this is you explaining why your overreaction to my initial push is scum-indicative lol

[Detective Pikachu]

If you don’t think they’re scum then why are you voting them?

she poisoned the well and pre-accused me of omgus while I was townreading her so I wanted to see how she would react to a push

[Detective Pikachu]

Being new to the site does not give you justification in "forgetting" every single read when asked about them

[Detective Pikachu]

Natsu is still probably the scummiest person here right now

[Detective Pikachu]

I never intentionally misrepped you. Once again, you took me disagreeing with your interpretation as an invitation to misrep my positions in a deliberately shitty way to satisfy your own petty egotistical desires.

And me thinking people should be less shitty to each other in this game *goes hand in hand* with telling people to stop giving awful/shitty reads without reasoning. Telling people to play better does not make me a "hypocrite"; if I continued to let R1 just do ~whatever she's doing~ without letting her know that my townread on her is not indissoluble THEN I'd be a hypocrite because that would be fostering a toxic gamestate

[Detective Pikachu]

Once again, you took me disagreeing with your interpretation as an invitation to misrep my positions in a deliberately shitty way to satisfy your own petty egotistical desires.

and you then have the gall to accuse me of hypocrisy. like this game is blacklist material for you regardless of alignment in my book, which is something I have literally never said in a newbie queue game before

[Detective Pikachu]

You argued that you not participating in the first 10 pages of the game was NAI because you always don't participate in the first 10 pages or something like that

Then you argued that you had refuted all my points and that I was scummy for calling you out

This makes it seem like you are insisting you be townread for not participating in the first ten pages when:
1) not participating in the first 10 pages because you don't like RVS is dumb
2) it's also bad particularly for an SE
3) calling you out on it is entirely reasonable
4) saying you always do it does not mean I should consider you town, at best you should remain in my poe
5) calling me scummy for calling you out on the fact that you were lurking is scummy
6) saying I'm misrepping you because your excuse for having very low content at the beginning of the game is awful and overly dramatic
7) continuing to whine about misreps that are not misreps is also awful

[Detective Pikachu]

Why are you scumreading me, then?

0 solving

Based entirely on RVS posts, which is what I said before.

Strawmanning? You literally said I was scum for not answering RQS, don’t try to make out I’m misreppng you.

I’ve defended myself by being defensive? Oh, how awful.

I’ve already said I will catch-up when I get home, that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t engage you right now on what I feel is an opportunistic push.

like this is where you start right

you a) misrep my position by assuming I care about RQS, and continue to return to the RQS point I never made, strawmanning the much simpler point I made which was that you simply weren't solving in the limited activity you wer ein the game

you b) call me opportunistic for saying dismissing that point because you apparently don't like RVS, which is also bad

c) continuing to counter-push me for my activity push on you is basically saying that you think I should townread you for "not giving a shit about the game" which is what you're implying with your reasoning here, i.e. that you never do RQS and never solve at the beginning of the game

[Detective Pikachu]

mine was any worse than yours?

Yours were worse than mine.
Hands down.
Point blank.
No contest.

I was pushing you for activity, invited you to take your time in catching up, and you responded by:
-shit tunneling me
-misrepping my position (unintentionally at first, with RQS, which you seem to have simply not understood I didn't give a shit about)
-misrepping my position EVEN MORE (now intentionally, because you didn't like the fact that I didn't like your excuses for skipping the beginning of the game)

No one has to like RVS, no one has to answer RQS, giving yourself permission to skip the beginning of the game and then counter-pushing the people who observe that your activity is below average is bad. If you are aware that you under-perform in RVS, why would you think that *scum* would be the ones most likely to call you out on that? Doesn't that reflect the fact that I am *accurately observing* your level of involvement in the game? You can't have it both ways.

[Detective Pikachu]

That you CHOSE to take a disagreement and deliberately escalate it because you "felt you were being bullied" and now want to play the victim card is disgusting, you took someone asking you LEGITIMATE questions about your play and decided to be as shitty as you possibly could in response

[Detective Pikachu]

Hello people.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
?

That's gotta be one of the most dumb scum tells I've ever seen, ngl.

Hello everyone, my name's Arthur and I'm fairly new at forum mafia.

Haha, I love this defiance.

Good on you, Arthur.

I just want to point out that DP and Hectic are probably the best two players in here XD

You do yourself a disservice, dsj!

I investigated Luca night 0 and learned he was part of the mafia, we should all speed wagon him :3 :3 :3

This was my initial ping

I say I have a guilty on you, and then get... no reaction from you. whatsoever

like yeah, I didn't like either of these posts, they seemed pockety and lacking in solving, and I commented on it... and you left the thread even though you had been posting just moments before

that certainly gives me the impression you don't really care about this thread, if I'm going to say I have a guilty on you and you have *no reaction* whatsoever, and then when you finally do rejoin the thread, you seem unable to understand what I'm actually scumreading you for, instead over-prioritizing a joke I make later on *after* my scumread on you has already developed

and then you just DON'T SHUT UP about RQS for like 20 posts even though *no one cared* which reflects a deep and fundamental unwillingness to engage people for what they're actually saying about you

and THEN you start screaming about misreps when you *refuse* to actually engage in a meaningful way about the problems I have with your play

like if you are town this game, WOW

[Detective Pikachu]

Dude, you literally said I didn’t answer RQS because I’m scum. Stop trying to distance yourself from it. I’m not even bringing that up anymore and yet you still do.

my point proven --

and again, you have the GALL to accuse me of misreps

a total unwillingness to actually process why I would scumread you in that situation and what I can only HOPE is a deliberate refusal to understand the gamestate or how people perceive you

[Detective Pikachu]

Like, I say I have a guilty on you, and like a page later comment on RQS, and the RQS is the only thing you focus on, ignoring *when* I start scumreading you which, if you were putting in more than a surface level of analysis into this game, would also have told you *why* I was scumreading you

[Detective Pikachu]

VOTE: Natsu

Now Luca will refuse to vote here

[Detective Pikachu]

I’m not continuing this right now as I said, but 84 was (fmpov) clearly a joke.

You didn’t expect me to believe you were serious, did you?

no, but I EXPECTED YOU TO ENGAGE THE THREAD

how the fuck is that not clear? as I said, I felt like you weren't being social -- i.e., I make a joke about your posts, and you just totally ignore me, it makes me feel like you DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE GAME which can make me wonder if you're scum

[Detective Pikachu]

I feel like you probably at this point actually understand my problem with your slot and your play, and you probably at some point have realized that my push on you was entirely warranted, but now you've realized that your initial posts in response make you look like a complete ass so you're just unwilling to let it go

[Detective Pikachu]

Yeah. Maybe that's why I invited you to catch up before continuing the conversation.

Instead you decided you didn't like my answers and OMGUS'd me in the laziest possible manner

[Detective Pikachu]

:3

It's g luca you're not getting hammered rn come back in a few and show me your solves

It's hard to articulate

Hit me with a reads list when you feel more caught up and organized

You keep insisting it's NAI for you.

OK, if it's NAI for you, why is my reaction here unreasonable?

I ask you to catch up. It was an activity push, and a warranted one since, as you keep saying, you don't do much early game

So if it is NAI
a) why should I stop pushing you until you are sortable
b) why am I scum for pushing you when you yourself admit it is not town-indicative?

[Detective Pikachu]

This is what I mean by ‘forced’ - your read on me feels entirely rushed and fabricated.

You say I’m scum for not answering RQS - I ask why is it scummy, you said because scum sometimes pick fights. I ask ‘was I picking a fight by not answering them’ you’re like ‘not really, but you’re scummy for no socializing and not laid back’.

So you’re moving the goalposts, can’t explain what you even mean by socializing in this context, and SR me for not being laid back, which is normal for someone who is being attacked?

"forced" -- but admits that my observation activity is low is true

"RQS" -- something I don't care about and haven't mentioned except for one off-hand joke but then takes this to be "moving the goal posts"

and then from here insists I'm "misrepping" when TWO of your three main points in your push against me are due to YOU misunderstanding what is going on in the thread?

[Detective Pikachu]

Or you could just give an actual read of Natsu

Do you actually at this point still think I'm scummier than him?

[Detective Pikachu]

And to be clear, your trajectory this game is:
-Don't participate
-Excuse yourself for not participating
-OMGUS people pushing you for not participating
-Misread the thread
-Accuse people of misrepping you when you're too lazy to figure out why they are pushing you
-Deliberately escalate the situation by deliberately misrepping the position of the people pushing you
-Complain about hypocrisy and ego

Cool, thanks for playing, real team player there buddy

[Detective Pikachu]

Drop it, Pikachu.

Sorry you want to dish criticism but you can't take it?

You could apologize for deliberately misrepping me and escalating the hostility of the game for as far as I can tell no comprehensible reason

[Detective Pikachu]

Remember when you slated Natsu for being condescending?

I’m sorry but blatant hypocrisy drives me nuts.

Yes, I am terrible and Pikachu is brilliant. If that’s what makes you happy.

[Detective Pikachu]

I apologize for not being clearer in my reasoning, but to be clear, I did not ever intentionally misrep you and can't apologize for just playing the game normally.

[Detective Pikachu]

do you believe that was an attempt at a realistic representation of what Luca literally said or my subjective interpretation of his argument?

[Detective Pikachu]

you said I’d only committed to a TR on two players, so my interpretation of that could be ‘if you don’t TR most of the players in the game then you’re scum’.

Actually I said you'd only *committed* to a townread on one player, part of my problem there was that it felt like the only other townread you had you were waffling on (R1)

that being said I'm pretty sure the entire thread is bored of our tete-a-tete at this point. Natsu or no Natsu?

[Detective Pikachu]

I am less sure you are scum now. I have liked the last couple post you have made. Especially since you brought up reasons I am a also reading DP as scummy. This could be you protecting yourself, but I am not sure about that yet.

What did you like about natsu's recent posts? Those reads look really political to me

[Detective Pikachu]

72offsuit and dkkoba are both kinda0 unknown to me atm.

I am leaning town on both, alittle less on 72offsuit, but that's probably due to them not trusting me for some reason. I felt I have done enough already to make myself known as town by the group. I was ready to hammer someone and take the death night 1 from a hectic/dp scum team.

Ok well you can also convince me you're not scum with natsu because those posts were scummy af and you backing off because she wrote scummy long posts is nagl

[Detective Pikachu]

If you don’t think they’re scum then why are you voting them?

she poisoned the well and pre-accused me of omgus while I was townreading her so I wanted to see how she would react to a push

I sensed an omgus coming because - well - you kinda foreshadowed it
and thats a lie lol

I said you vanishing from the thread was making me doubt your townblocking. Yeah, I'm allowed to reevaluate your play since I have to consider the possibility you don't merely have bad reads but are hiding a scum agenda under the guise of toxicity and condescension and 'forgetfulness'

In any case I'm not going to keep you townblocked if I think there's risk of you throwing the game, which at the moment is my bigger concern since your biggest problem with me seems to be that in the early game I toneread people which is a pretty lazy and superficial reason to maintain a scumread

Walk me through your read on Natsu instead of keeping up with one-liner 'case closed' posts thanks

[Detective Pikachu]

'make reads based on not much'... Aka, play town on day 1

I have a reads list early game and arthur starts with 'you're a bad player'

R1 spends the game calling me condescending well before I made any actually condescending posts

But natsu sitting on the sidelines and saying 'ooh I scumread pika but I'm not really gonna do anything about it but complain' is still by far the most scummy approach to the gamestate while also happening to stil be toxic

How did I roll a game with the most toxic group of newbies I've ever seen? I literally don't know

Maybe don't play scum by negging people in the future though mmmmkay

[Detective Pikachu]

*yawn* dp is condescending as fuck god

Like where the fuck did this even come from? Almost the only thing in my iso before this was a reads list and you decided what the game needed was a big dosage of needless hostility? Why did you choose to begin the game with rudeness?

[Detective Pikachu]

Waitwaitwait I get it, you scumread me + hectic because we were the only people being pleasant to each other and you scumread anything other than outright hostility?

That's something you gotta nip right in the bud if so

[Detective Pikachu]

Like this is maybe a good point to mention that yes, people can get into tete-a-tetes here. I am sure people are like 'omg but ur argument with luca' and yeah, Luca escalated things a lot more than I would have liked

But if you are coming from epicmafia or whatever other site, bear in mind that the people on this site try to, in good games (which doesn't include this one) people are not cancer to each other all the time

so if that is the way you do things from EM or whatever leave that shit st the door thanks

[Detective Pikachu]

How exactly does confronting people about playstyle conflicts advance a scum agenda?

[Detective Pikachu]

Also you haven't explained what you actually liked about natsu's readslist

[Detective Pikachu]

Waitwaitwait I get it, you scumread me + hectic because we were the only people being pleasant to each other and you scumread anything other than outright hostility?

Actually I just said I am less sure about the hectic and natsu being a scum team because of their constant town reading of each other. So no that's not my opinion.

That was directed at R1, sorry about not tagging but it was an addendum to the previous thought

[Detective Pikachu]

I just posted 2 minutes ago arent I allow time to catch up?

So you l-1 people before catching up?

[Detective Pikachu]

Ok so why are you not scum with natsu? Because to me it looks like you're trying to use nai bad sentiment in the thread at me to jump off the bus

[Detective Pikachu]

658 is like a classic scum post and I really struggle to see what about it there is to like as town

[Detective Pikachu]

How is asking what you like about the readslist you just said you liked controlling too much of the conversation?

[Detective Pikachu]

You are not currently a leading wagon so I don't get why you went straight for AtE there

[Detective Pikachu]

do you dislike conversing? What is your problem?

[Detective Pikachu]

Like I can see you flipping town here but overreacting to kinda straightforward questions seems kinda gross. Holistically I've liked your posting but if you're going to move off natsu after natsu has become *scummier*, yeah, I'm going to ask you about it. Because I am direct and fast to respond does not mean I am trying to 'control the conversation' it means I am trying to evaluate your thought process, and jumping to AtE is not going to help me do that

[Detective Pikachu]

Like you can complain about playstyle sure. I am chatty. If it feels like I'm controling the conversation it's because I feel like scum are fanning the flames of negative sentiment against me and trying to get me lynched off playstyle without taking any consequence for it, which is exactly what I see in natsu's last post. So when you say you like the post, I ask you why, and then you vote me, it's going to raise questions in my mind about whether I am misreading the gamestate, I'm misreading you, I'm misreading natsu, or what is even going on. I feel like I'm transparently town here and the town on my wagon are there 90% because of playstyle. so you l1ing me when I ask you about that is concerning, yes

[Detective Pikachu]

I am not required to give any reads or any reasons. If you dont like it, and you think that makes me scum put your vote on me.

This just feels really out of proportion. If you are town maybe calm down?

[Detective Pikachu]

Unless they update the time count on every VC they make when they do a new VC

The game clock uses the countdown feature

(expired on 2020-02-10 16:41:49)B

When I typed this it was '1 day' but every time you refresh the page it will be slightly less

We have 5+ days remaining

[Detective Pikachu]

can i unvote so someone else votes and I can hammer
also completely assuming spy is just good!scum

I kinda thought spy was a little towny here tbh so where is this coming from?

[Detective Pikachu]

*yawn* dp is condescending as fuck god

Like where the fuck did this even come from? Almost the only thing in my iso before this was a reads list and you decided what the game needed was a big dosage of needless hostility? Why did you choose to begin the game with rudeness?

Waitwaitwait I get it, you scumread me + hectic because we were the only people being pleasant to each other and you scumread anything other than outright hostility?

That's something you gotta nip right in the bud if so

670 was clearly at R1 and the followup was thinking about her early readslist which still baffles me

[Detective Pikachu]

tl;dr - scum is within {dsjstr
Natsu
DkKoba
72offsuit
ArthurConyl
ROUND ONE
Hectic (SE)
Detective Pikachu (SE)
Luca Blight (SE)
}


Town
Me
Arthur
72

Null (top is town-null,bottom is scumnull)
DK
Natsu

Scumreads
Luca
DP
Hectic

Naturally im sure the nullreads are town *for now*, but in a case I had to lynch between them id pick Natsu

I've spent a lot of this game trying to figure out how this readslist came to exist and how r1 actually reads people since it's like upside down my list at this point (and upside down except for luca other than that)

[Detective Pikachu]

It doesn't make her scum it just makes me feel like I don't get how she's approaching the game at all

[Detective Pikachu]

Maybe not upside down, more just very different

[Detective Pikachu]

Like that's the metric of 297 right? Scumread everyone who is nice to anyone, townread everyone complaining about 'bad plays' etc.

Idk why 72 fits in the townblock off that but that's why I said R1's reads look superficial, it feels like she's reading people based on 'inverse niceness' in the early game. There's a kind of logic to it but it's a logic that doesn't catch scum but does make her really hard to work with constructively

[Detective Pikachu]

I wrote that before you posted lol

[Detective Pikachu]

Hello people.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490
?

That's gotta be one of the most dumb scum tells I've ever seen, ngl.

Hello everyone, my name's Arthur and I'm fairly new at forum mafia.

Haha, I love this defiance.

Good on you, Arthur.

B

-->r1 scumread?

[Detective Pikachu]

Wait, wait... can you understand me?

Wait, wait... can you understand me?

D-dad???

R1-->scumread?

I don't know what else she's scumreading us for or arguing we're not s/s except for shitposting to each other

[Detective Pikachu]

not that I actually remember why I scumread you two, but I know it isnt that

I could be wrong but hard to figure out what else it could be given ^

[Detective Pikachu]

I meant I wrote 711 before you wrote 710