Titus v. Alisae (endgame)

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m gonna outguess WIFOM Titus/Alisae picks in a second

[Flavor Leaf]

You wanna know who Ali would never draft.

ME!

[Flavor Leaf]

Alisae would never ever never never ever never never ever draft me. And I /in’d knowing this. so I’m gonna be a good little flavor and just trololol.

[Flavor Leaf]

I believe it. And we finally get to play a game together, Bitmap.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL can u carry me and funnel me reads in a pt?

Yeah, but let me just lurk around for a bit, and then i wanna pop out of nowhere with a solve

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't know why people are over thinking the scum draft. Ali is obviously going to draft people e thinks has a good chance to survive till end game. It's not that hard to understand.

Exactly: listen to Bitmappy here for why I’m town.

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I could see Ali drafting me in another universe if e was trying to completely fuck with me, which is what e likes to do.

But that’s more of a face to face thing

[Flavor Leaf]

However I am mad, that I am not a mason.

Alisae Alisae Alisae

[Flavor Leaf]

ive only rolled scum against chemist, flavor, pp, bitmap, dunn/maria in this plist so its best to start from there

I caught you, right?

That was my pool solve game, and I hard mislynched Penguin?

[Flavor Leaf]

For what it’s worth, i don’t believe I can accurately read OkaPoka, I think I just was able to POE him in said game earlier

[Flavor Leaf]

What is the archetype of your ideal scum player?

Just met a guy. Omg he was so fit. Handsome even. Never will I meet a guy like him again. Caring. Emotional. Nice. And his name was the first letter of each sentence.

I’m so upset right now

[Flavor Leaf]

Do we vote people in this game

[Flavor Leaf]

Just copy/paste:
Flavor Leaf

then highlight the text and click the "vote" button

ezpz

-S

Thanks

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Flavor Leaf]

If you guys only knew the type of relationship Alisae and I have better, it’d be painfully obvious that e’d never pick me as scum here.

If we did this exact setup with the same playerlist, like 3 times in a row, then yeah, eventually one of them I’d expect to be picked.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m coming towards a solve soon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m baiting a wagon on me to finalize my mass posting.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, no, you all can go ahead and mislynch me here, the scum team and Alisae will just laugh at how trash of a wagon that is for town because Alisae knows everything I said was true.

And it also will push and give me fuel for my newly found mega heel turn.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thus far OkaPoka/Sherlock through their comments towards me are town indicative.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also first^

[Flavor Leaf]

u think fl is town?

Maybe? The more people ask me like I'm a psycho, the more unsure I am.

I like your other head since I'm more on the same page with that head tbh.

what's the Watson head posted that you like?

This is actually a good question unless you can read Sherlock's and my discussions.

We had similar thoughts regarding Chemist.

This is all town.

I’m the skeeviest, sleaziest, showstealer scum lord so in this type of game it’s expected that “oh FL is god scum, he’ll get picked!” Which is actually another reason against me being scum.

Mixed in with the Ali never picking me here just kinda works out like that.

So I got 3 town reads right now. Woot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ankamius could go either way. She has reason right now to want me dead for NAI reasons, but that also means she has reason as scum to abuse that.

Also, townAnkamius I don’t necessarily feel throws that vote in that sense, they usually talk more in that fashion, so I can think that’s less townie than expected, but not enough for me to lock.

Lean scum-null.

[Flavor Leaf]

I forgot Boon was in this game tbh

Damn that Ank wagon built up fast. Someone wanna break the reasons down for me?

This is kind of townie because ScumAF would be weary of me AF.

However, ScumAF knows I would know that so ScumAF could still say that.

But I still think it’s more equity lean town.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not actually as mad at you as you think I am. I don't hold grudges for very long.

---

It still makes sense, though, regardless of temperament.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf, why do you not feel memorable?

Idk, i hadn’t really played this game thus far.

I posted a few times prior to this, but nothing actually.

My first time actually playing this game was just in this recent string of posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, this is post #25, and over half of those came in the last page or so.

[Flavor Leaf]

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I kinda buy that Drixx joined the game thinking he would not have to effort about his own alignment and now is annoyed that he's not a mason?

Also thinking there's scum inside Boon/FA/Espe seems both reasonable and intuitive given the gamestate at the time the reads were given?

The only scummy thing in that group is Bitmap arguing, totally without justification, that there is NOT scum inside Boon or Espe, which he only later explains is due to wifomy pick spec that seems unconvincing. I don't see why he was so confident in rejecting Drixx's PoE there.

I'd say it'll be easier to read RR in time but I know from experience that doesn't tend to be true, they tend to be a slot I second guess myself on a lot but if I was going to scumread them it wouldn't be for any of those tbh.

-S

Ah, man. I actually don’t really like the posts by this hydra. I don’t even know who’s in it, but still.

I don’t know if I’m scum reading it per say, because I expected town to come to me eventually, but idk. However, I do think the Turkey is town based on the posts I saw around this, and just in general, I think the headspace is coming from townTurkeyBacon.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

I feel like I don't totally understand what you mean here. You think Bitmap is keeping you out of the poe because there was a group meetup and he doesn't want to lynch people from the meetup? or if not I don't know what you're saying here

-S

Nah, I think he’s just soul reading me as town, ya feel?

[Flavor Leaf]

TurkeyBacon = GobbledyGook, the turkey.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, RadiantCowbells (town) vs Flavor Leaf (scum) should be next.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is so cool actually. Alisae just gets to hard WIFOM, that’s my dream role

[Flavor Leaf]

Let me know when you have reads of Espe + Maki/Kaito

-S

I feel like I should know who Maki/Kaito are, and I feel I do know who they are, but I’ll have to read them to be sure. Idk if they’re outed or not

[Flavor Leaf]

I still think there's a low chance for Ali to pick FL and Pine though.

agree on Pine, but why not FL?

-S

FL is known to be a strong player and has strong relations with Alisae. I know this sounds WIFOM but there's a good chance Ali might opt to not pick FL because e thinks FL is an easy mislynch as a result. Does this mean it's confirmed that Ali didn't pick FL? No. But I'm willing to give FL a pass today and see how he plays out in D1/D2 because if he's town, he's a viable asset and I think can help us lynch scum.

Sherlock, I'm really not a big fan of your slot. You're literally skirting around and not really presenting your reasoning at all and having as I call these "sekret" reads that you can easily revert if you're wrong because you don't attract attention atm.

From strictly knowing the relationship between Alisae and I in person, alongside Bitmap and myself having essentially zero interaction with each other prior to the meetup, I follow this 100% and see exactly where he’s coming from.

Like, I can see a scum motive from pushing this, but that’s just a play that’s being made, and it is being made to win me over. That being said, this is essentially pointless considering I haven’t played this game pre page 50.

I think this is hard town, or it’s played well to hard pocket me.

I’m gonna put this at the top of my town read atm.

[Flavor Leaf]

Is this a MariaR and Dunnstral hydra?

Yes
Maki=Maria
Kaito=Dunnstral

That’s who I thought. I knew Kaito was Dunn, I was unsure on Maki, but Maria/Dunn still made sense

[Flavor Leaf]

At least I explained myself more extensively than your reads. So yes, I think my reads hold merit.

You said RR was scum for PoEing Boon and Esp when your reasons for townreading Boon is 100% pick spec and your reasons for townreading Esp is because he's posting

-S

I feel this isn’t fair. Most of my posts this game prior to today had literally been directed towards Bitmap, and Titus, Bitmap, Alisae, Math, and Chkflip just met up like a week and a half ago, so there’s momentum from that.

I think it’s more than just pick spec as you mentioned. I think Bitmap’s read and the fact that he is having trouble expressing it completely in the first part is incredibly townie.

this is just garbage

:shrug: that’s how you can tell I’m town.

Also, if Bitmap ends up being town, it’s 100% confirmed not garbage and was a next level accurate read.

[Flavor Leaf]

ive only rolled scum against chemist, flavor, pp, bitmap, dunn/maria in this plist so its best to start from there

I caught you, right?

That was my pool solve game, and I hard mislynched Penguin?

yes

Regarding hectic: so is you dropping reads like this carefree and being cognizant of placements at the start of d1 a norm?

Oh this is gonna happen throughout the game, not specific to Day 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, if Bitmap ends up being town, it’s 100% confirmed not garbage and was a next level accurate read.

that's not how it works!

---

But it is how it works. I believe him to be town for the reasons I suggested, and he vice versa. If he ends up being town, then those were completely accurate reasons to do so, and we would be in the right for trusting them.

His uncertainty and non committal but still feeling the need to say it despite knowing it likely isn’t the popular route or decision to do is the specific part that stands out as town to me rather than the words itself.

[Flavor Leaf]

its because tse is a naive mafiascum player who has probably lost to a deepwolf and has been permanently traumatized as a result

poor tse

send tse to the mountainous gulags to realize that townies can be good at the game

Lol no.
I always scum read all the Deep Wolves.

I wanna say that TSE is really strong at reading the gamestate in an extremely wide surface level kind of way, which I believe is extremely helpful in specific ways.

Sometimes it’s really good to analyze the surface level, but sometimes people can’t push past the base surface.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would have claimed ascetic in my first post if I were ascetic

Therefore, I am not

Pine I am excited for you to try hard

Tell me who the scum are

I believe this post.

Current scumlist: Ankamius and Sherlock/Watson

Ank would have been VERY high on Ali's recruit list, probably #1

Ali never drafts FL or I

ftr

I just hit this post and I'd like to reiterate that it's literally impossible for S+W and me to be the same alignment because the duck will always immediately draft the other when alisae drafts one of us (and even if SS did the draft, I imagine they mindmelded on this beforehand and this would likely come up with how high profile we are and his general familiarity with us)

we've hydra'd so many times this past year that we are very familiar with each other's town games and it's a huge risk of having whoever is scum in this duo be caught near immediately

something to keep in mind

---

This is actually an incredibly NAI post because honestly, yeah, this makes sense.

Is Krazy in the Sherlock hydra? Because that makes sense as a potential scum team, but I can also see it not.

I literally was thinking right before seeing this post, Ankamius is probably the #1 choice to pick fo Alisae, and I read this in the way where it’s #1 after considering who’d actually be #1 in a general sense.

Still, not gonna state a full on scum read by any means, and I’d probably wanna give it some breathing room anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

TSE I think is probably the last choice by Alisae on the surface, which actually probably raises them pretty high, which also lowers him simultaneously, and keep in the fact he is actually probably near the bottom, I’d say TSE ends just slightly underneath the middle of the pack in terms of picks.

[Flavor Leaf]

Doesn’t mean it’s not true nor does it mean you’re still not a good pick.

You are a strong candidate for being first pick in a way where you aren’t the strongest candidate to be first pick, but still strong enough to be first pick, and mixed in with people being able to push it away from you being 50/50 picked for first pick, and you being able to shrug it off decently, you’re still first pickable in that scenario, but are you first pick? Who knows. It’s a complete WIFOM, but you have a decently high chance of being on the overall first pick drafting list.

I’ll make a drafting list with Boon level logic sometime this day phase.

[Flavor Leaf]

And y’all y’all about me too much, even when I’m not here

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all *talk

[Flavor Leaf]

FL is known to be a strong player and has strong relations with Alisae. I know this sounds WIFOM but there's a good chance Ali might opt to not pick FL because e thinks FL is an easy mislynch as a result. Does this mean it's confirmed that Ali didn't pick FL? No. But I'm willing to give FL a pass today and see how he plays out in D1/D2 because if he's town, he's a viable asset and I think can help us lynch scum.

okay so putting alisae pick wifom aside how is this not Boon playing his scumgame to a T?

-S

I lurked for 50 pages. Show me 1 scum game where I’ve done that, and I’ll show you 2+ town games.

[Flavor Leaf]

Who’s Watson?

[Flavor Leaf]

I've never played with FL.

So how does someone, who has never played with FL, thinks that I think FL can be mislynchable?

Yeah, and while there's one scenario where I'm wrong on him, I feel like he's pretty transparently scum

-S

I want you to find 1 scum game by me where this is transparently scum me prior to my posting this night.

Keep in mind, I had 12 posts by page 48 -ish.

Go find 1 scum game where it’s like that, and you can say it’s transparently my scum game.

VOTE: Sherlock

This stays until you can explain that

[Flavor Leaf]

I had 400+ posts in EICN

[Flavor Leaf]

And I was SK in OK2, and I posted in the first post of that game.

Sure, you can say I was also Mafia, but I actively considered myself not a part of that team, as I screwed them over multiple times.

[Flavor Leaf]

By the way, I fully expected scumSherlock to have games ready to push out

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don’t post, it was clear I wasn’t paying attention to this game.

Y’all got to 50 pages in a few days.

I’m modding 2 games, and am in a couple others.

[Flavor Leaf]

I had 400+ posts in EICN

yeah at the end of the game but the beginning of your iso is pretty much all blahhhhh + pockety posts with minimal solving/spice

anyway, kaito read plz

-s

And that’s AI?

I don’t do solvey/analysis posts as scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

so you’re saying I was forgettable here, right?

Then how come you kept bringing up Bitmap’s comments towards my slot specifically. Doesn’t seem very forgettable.

And look throughout this game how many people brought it up.

[Flavor Leaf]

TrueSoulEnergy
Pine
Flavor Leaf
Hectic
OkaPoka
Espeonage
Bitmap
Maki and Kaito (hydra of Maki Harukawa & Kaito Momota)
Sherlock and Watson (hydra of PenguinPower & Krazy)
Frozen Angel
Chemist1422
AaronFrost
Spiffeh
gobbledygook
Ankamius
Reasonably Rational (hydra of Cerberus v666 and Drixx)
Amrun

Let’s look at this list? Who would you state are the scum heavies, picks by Alisae? By heavy, I mean the slot to be able to captain a scum team and maneuver their way around the majority of players, which is why I won’t have Bitmap or the RR hydra, even though I think they’re likely strong or capable scum players.

I would say:
Pine
FL
Maria/Dunn hydra (keep in mind, Alisae nomm’d Dunn for Rising Star)
Sherlock and Watson
Ankamius

There is absolutely zero chance that there isn’t scum within this list. I know I’m town, and you can deduct Alisae wouldn’t ever pick me here (you don’t have to believe it, but e knows it’s true)

So that leaves

Pine
Maria/Dunn hydra
Krazy/PP hydra
Ankamius.

Obviously you can’t just pick all heavies, that’s too many cooks in the kitchen, so it would be balanced out between strong supporting scum players, and a likely “no one would ever expect this!!!”

Does anybody disagree with this heavy list?

[Flavor Leaf]

so you’re saying I was forgettable here, right?

you were non-existent lol

-S

That’s how you know it’s not scum indicative and it’s NAI. ScumMe active lurks, not passively lurks and trolls.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Alisae almost by definition had to pick someone inside {bitmap, espeonage, boon, you} but I'm already second-guessing everything about each of those slots lol

I almost made a secondary list about supporting scum players over the heavies, and Bitmap/Espeonage fit more in that vein for me based on playerlist knowledge, I believe.

Neat that you posted this as I was posting my thing, however, I fail to see why Ankamius was omitted from this list.

[Flavor Leaf]

And that’s AI?

I don’t do solvey/analysis posts as scum?

I think there's noticeable differences in the way you solve the game as town vs. scum, yeah. Or at least there have been in the games I've played vs. you

-S

Yeah, scumMe makes so much more sense until townMe does

[Flavor Leaf]

Secondary Scum List second in commands

Espeonage
Bitmap
Gobbledygook
Reasonably Rational

Under the radar coast be there scum picks
Hectic
Okapoka
AaronFrost
Frozen Angel
Spiffeh


Don’t really see Alisae picking unless having to choose between two of em specifically
TrueSoulEnergy
Chemist
Amrun

[Flavor Leaf]

OkaPoka
Espeonage
Bitmap

you don't see any of these three as heavies from Alisae's POV?

-S

Not in the same sense. I don’t see them as Captain running the town kind of scum, if that makes sense.

They’re more deepwolf, really strong scum for the late game side of things whilst being able to backup the scum being at the forefront.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would Ali not pick Amrun? Isn't Amrun pretty well regarded?

And why is Oka "under the radar"?

Your characterizations of people seems kinda?

-S

Because I think those are strong picks as not the main scum, if that makes sense.

E could have picked Amrun, but I don’t feel they did.

Can you explain to me what you feel Amrun and Alisae’s relationship is like?

I think Chemist would have been a solid pick too. Doesn’t mean I think Alisae would have picked.

[Flavor Leaf]

If this is the topic of conversation for the evening I'm tagging in Kaito and going to bed.

yeah the way he's doing it seems kinda passive-aggressive and uncool

I didn't realize boon was gonna neg half the player list when I poked the boon fire

-S

I’m a heel now, I said this. I am now hard calm blunt passive aggressive, but not so much in a passive way, just not in an aggro way.

And what did you expect by poking the Boon Fire?

[Flavor Leaf]

Not in the same sense. I don’t see them as Captain running the town kind of scum, if that makes sense.

They’re more deepwolf, really strong scum for the late game side of things whilst being able to backup the scum being at the forefront.

Oka isn't captain but is instead deepwolf...?

Like I don't even scumread Oka but that just is not how I view his range at all, he's definitely a very strong player and definitely capable of Captaining stuff

I don't really think this is a particularly productive approach the gamestate. You can't just read Dunn's iso and tell me why I'm wrong and he's actually town?

-S

Really? He’s first mate, deepwolf was a bad word there.

This is strictly speaking in terms of the drafting mechanics. In a team of they’re own when forced to do it, I feel bitmap/RR easily can captain a game, but I don’t know enough of Bitmap’s play to call them a heavy heavy captain, but from the few games I’ve seen, and by meeting, I feel they can be incredibly strong behind the scenes moreso than upfront.

OkaPoka I’ve never really seen take control of a game, but maybe that’s just based on games I’ve played with him, in which he’s always seemed like a secondary scum, but a solid one, if that makes sense

[Flavor Leaf]

I'd be very shocked if FL's idea of the drafting strategy was even close to what Alisae actually did.

And keep in mind that I have very recent experience as scum with Alisae, so I likely have among the most relevant experience here with how e handles scumteams.

---

Explain why please.

Show your work.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have no idea what Ali's relationship to everyone is like, I kinda liked the way Amrun claimed and now I'm more just waiting for her to return to the thread, so I haven't put almost any thought into whether Ali would or wouldn't pick her. Like if I already have a scumread on someone then I might consider that, but I think it's super unhealthy for the game to start with that as the main question tbh, I think you should stop

-S

Exactly.

But I do. Because I’m a sociopathic freak who puts way too much energy into reading social interactions and relationships in general.

[Flavor Leaf]

I also don’t think Alisae thinks high enough of their own scum game to warrant them not picking one of the players I put in the 4.

The fact Ankamius pushes the idea that none of those 4 could be picked is extremely interesting to me.

Does Alisae have access to the Mafia PT and can talk in it?
In that scenario, If I had picked with this player list, I think I would go...

One of Krazy hydra/Ankamius, but exactly one of them.
AaronFrost
Hectic
One of Gobbledygook/RR


I’m too lazy to check if it’s 4 or 5 scum, but I think this is a 21 player?

[Flavor Leaf]

And what did you expect by poking the Boon Fire?

I was expecting you to become readable and/or start solving the game, so it basically worked, I just wasn't expecting the extra dose of condescension toward half the playerlist tbh

-S

Not condescending, I could post all the players’ strengths and weaknesses if I really cared to hyper analyze everyone right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

If this is the topic of conversation for the evening I'm tagging in Kaito and going to bed.

yeah the way he's doing it seems kinda passive-aggressive and uncool

I didn't realize boon was gonna neg half the player list when I poked the boon fire

-S

Combine that with the fact if I have to deal with people calling X town and Y scum for 'what ali would do' I'm going to actively ignore it because it's just stupid. Set up spec is stupid pick drafting is stupid. Let's just play mafia. Ugh.

I actually highly disagree with the drafting being bad, because Alisae gets to post in this game, and thus is readable.

This is my starting ground, building my base for me to eventually solve, and I’m showing my work.

Atm, I don’t think Ankamius is the 1 to have been drafted out of the 4.

[Flavor Leaf]

you all are underestimating how beneficial slots with erratic voting patterns are this game as scum picks

and ftr boon, Alisae was captaining when we were scum together

---

I’m not saying e can’t captain. This is a drafting game, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Does Alisae have access to the Mafia PT and can talk in it?

I'm like ready to town boon but I actually feel really surprised this is a question he is asking, almost too much?

idk maybe not

-S

My dumbness as scum comes off a lot more genuine than it does when I’m town.

Antihero commented one a dead thread once “if Boon is scum, that’s the best fake confusion I’ve ever seen”

When I’m town being dumb, I’m being a derp.

ScumDerp is like when I slip, but I cleverly figure out a way against it.

[Flavor Leaf]

The masonry is outed?

[Flavor Leaf]

Kinda like Maki's tone here but not sure enough to undo the damage Dunn did to my read there earlier

I absolutely do not like Maki’s tone here. Explain please.

I almost impulsively voted Maki a bit back.

[Flavor Leaf]

One of Krazy hydra/Ankamius, but exactly one of them.

You're kinda looking at this the wrong way though

Duck and SS get to pick

If Ali goes first and does a top priority heavy that isn't Ank, then Duck could very easily double on us for town

Which is precisely why you're basically just looking at the pick logic totally wrong, you're over-prioritizing what is actually an incredibly difficult puzzle to analyze. Focus on play, Boon, before you actually make me want to policy lynch you for real Like half of what you've said since you stopped actually solving is like pure cancer

-S

So? I post a lot. It’s not like I don’t analyze play whilst all this.

I also think my posting is fantastic for reactions.

We’ll see.

If I’m right, like I usually am when people push at me, at least 2/3 partially, you can ask PenguinPower on my solve capabilities at the expense of some minor casualties.

And this is a solid base of the puzzle. I found a good amount of puzzle pieces, and looking at em all before I start trying to piece it together.

I think one of the people who have posted against me tonight is scum, and almost exactly one of them.

I no longer town read OkaPoka either. Maki/Oka/Krazy slot have probably 1 maybe 2 scum within them, but more likely 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not comfortable throwing Ank off the table yet, but yeah.


Aaron and Hectic were lean towns for me from my read through, I commented on my AF read, so that’s good that my gut was right with them.

Pine being a mason actually helps a lot, and lowers a heavy pick.

Maki/Krazy-PP/Ank is a semi POE.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chemist/Amrun/TSE - are lean towns based on what I said earlier. TSE even moreso.

Gobbledygook/Bitmap are town reads of mine based on their play and posts, and position in the gamestate.

Spiffeh/Espeonage/Frozen Angel I think probably have scum in them based on their place in this game mixed with the drafting process and my other reads.

Okapoka’s probably just scum, especially if Krazy is town.

RR, idk, null.

OkaPoka/Maki/Espeonage is my way too early scum team, with probably like Spiffeh/FA.

[Flavor Leaf]

You say this without reading, Oka, right?

Like can you put a marker in for where you start actually reading isos and stuff again because your reads when you start trying to solve the game without reading it tend to be pretty bad.

If you've actually read Oka's iso (not that long) then maybe you can expand on your experience with him and your typical readrate?

-S

Oh, no, I’ve actually read his entire ISO prior to this posting and was trying to see where I was standing gamestate wise not play wise for a bit, but it just comes back to scum, especially if you are actually town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Aaron and Hectic were lean towns for me from my read through, I commented on my AF read, so that’s good that my gut was right with them.

Pine being a mason actually helps a lot, and lowers a heavy pick.

hmmmmmmmmmm

I claim masons and Boon does not get the joke

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

HMMMMMMMM

hmmmm

nah not gonna think more about it right now

-S

I thought you said Hectic, Pine, AF were masons in your one post, so i thought you were just trollin

[Flavor Leaf]

Aaron and Hectic were lean towns for me from my read through, I commented on my AF read, so that’s good that my gut was right with them.

Pine being a mason actually helps a lot, and lowers a heavy pick.

Maki/Krazy-PP/Ank is a semi POE.

Like you believe me when I say I'm masons with Hectic and Aaron, but then simultaneously believe I'm in your PoE?

Boon do you need some sleep?

-S

?

No, I thought Pine was the mason with Hectic/AF.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m half trolling, but now you confused me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think my Aaron/Hectic reads still staticky true for me, Pine goes away.

[Flavor Leaf]

But Pine more null than scum, i only vaguely remember Pine in my read through

[Flavor Leaf]

Keep in mind, if my dive was correct on the drafting process, or at least close,

Scum is 100% going to be in a group to shoot it down.

Likely in a player that would say “even if I were town, I’d shoot it down”.

I said this in preparation for more people to come in.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okapoka
Espeonage
Maki
Ankamius

Then Spiffeh/RR/FA at a lower level is who keeps jumping out at me for the area to contain all the scum. Hmm...

[Flavor Leaf]

Sherlock’s supposed to be there, but if they’re scum I’m getting slightly pocketed.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I’m really starting to think OkaPoka is scum, which would make me think Krazy is town, and possibly Ank and Maria/Dunn scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

JESUS H CRIST
5 PAGES!
I look away to do Scummies work and I see 5 pages

People asked me to play the game. What did people expect was gonna happen?

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m excited to see how Alisae interacts with me

[Flavor Leaf]

I have no idea what Ali's relationship to everyone is like, I kinda liked the way Amrun claimed and now I'm more just waiting for her to return to the thread, so I haven't put almost any thought into whether Ali would or wouldn't pick her. Like if I already have a scumread on someone then I might consider that, but I think it's super unhealthy for the game to start with that as the main question tbh, I think you should stop

-S

I am still waiting for people to accept that I can draft anyone in this playerlist and the only reason why I wouldn't draft someone is because of reasons that only I would know.

Exactly. Reasons that only Alisae and I would know.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, you drafting me would mean I specifically wouldn’t know until after I knew.

The fact you didn’t draft me is the reason why I know I know.

[Flavor Leaf]

I agree with RR and Drixx and that hydra in general as being super strong scum, but I still don’t believe it to be a first pick.

[Flavor Leaf]

my 1st pick is actually TrueSoulEnergy

So confirmed that TSE isn’t, which also lines up with where I’m at.

TSE probably being pretty low surface level, but that makes him extremely high, which indirectly lowers him a good amount again, so this is a decent town lean for TSE for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

HOWEVER!

I could see Alisae trolling the next level past that and going through picking TSE, but play wise, I think TSE is town

[Flavor Leaf]

@Krazy - Compromise set me up nicely for times like this with Alisae.

[Flavor Leaf]

TSE/Aaron/Hectic, you can be the Flavor Buddies.

[Flavor Leaf]

You can consider my vote that 9th hammer slot, but if I vote, the wagon will end.

[Flavor Leaf]

Apparently, Titus thinks she narrowed down my scum pool to 6 people

You spelled FL wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think Maria hydra has high scum equity too.

[Flavor Leaf]

First ^

[Flavor Leaf]

I just read the first line, and laughed, and decided to ignore the rest cuz lol

[Flavor Leaf]

Like the fact that you are such a dick of a player that you would set up "fake townslipping as town so people will just listen to me" fitting your character is super unhelpful. And being mad at you has coloured a lot of my recent reading.

I saw this and since it was short, I accidentally read it just by looking at it all in a second, but this is a borderline TMI of me being town.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I think Ali realized it

[Flavor Leaf]

And for some reason, I can’t think of a single instance of remembering who Espeonage even is, but someone said they had a strong scum game, and I think I remember hearing that despite not remembering if I’ve seen it, so that’s why they were where they were in my mech talk.

Methinks my gut was correct there

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t sleep, too much time waste.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s boring and takes up a third of your time.

[Flavor Leaf]

We knew this. I’m just lucky I’m charismatic and passionate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why’d you have Espeonage come and hatchet me for pushing Oka?

[Flavor Leaf]

and you’re my same time zone. I could call myself an Uber and get to you within 25 minutes.

[Flavor Leaf]

I used to have a steam controller.

My dongle broke

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s just as well; my computer broke too.

I’ve been modding on phone the past year and a half.

[Flavor Leaf]

What you playing?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Espeonage

[Flavor Leaf]

Okapoka
Espeonage
Maki
Ankamius

Then Spiffeh/RR/FA at a lower level is who keeps jumping out at me for the area to contain all the scum. Hmm...

Replace Ank with one of the other 3.

[Flavor Leaf]

why am I suddenly not scum

---

No clue.

Also, Espeonage straight up lied in their last posts.

I never voted Ank.

I was voting Krazy, who I also am not scum reading right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Note to game, if Ank or FL flips scum FL's voting pattern just got weird ditching top wagon with momentum bc he has hurt feelings.

And Boon, pretty sure I yelled at you multiple times when you and your harem were trying and consistently failing to carry games. I understand why you would want to forget me.

Which harem?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Espeonage is acting like they weren’t on my scum list prior to them posting after my posting spree.

[Flavor Leaf]

I was expecting scum to come after me after my posts.

Like, I’m not surprised

[Flavor Leaf]

Espeonage straight up lied saying I ditched the Ank wagon when I never voted Ank.

[Flavor Leaf]

I even told Titus I wasn’t going to vote Ank which proves they’re just fabricating stuff

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, i don’t know which games that could be, there really isn’t trying to carry games, it just kinda happens. Back’s been looking pretty good lately from it, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am so excited. I know who I am gonna target tonight.

Just saying, Alisae shot me Night 1 in Calendar Mafia as scum, so this definitely adds up to ScumesPeeOnNage

[Flavor Leaf]

I think FL is town. That said, FL, if you shoot me I will find you in the Bay.

FL why do you have a high opinion of my scum game?

If you look at a scum team like they’re the Fantastic Four, you can fill a Human Torch slot or a Thing slot really well, and I think teams need proper balance, one of each. Sure, you can flip it, and do the best with what you got, but if you got a perfect Fantastic Four team, you’re gonna have a good time.

I actually think you fill more of a Thing slot, and that’s super important.

And I already said you’re a high town read

[Flavor Leaf]

Note to game, if Ank or FL flips scum FL's voting pattern just got weird ditching top wagon with momentum bc he has hurt feelings.

And Boon, pretty sure I yelled at you multiple times when you and your harem were trying and consistently failing to carry games. I understand why you would want to forget me.

Which harem?

[Flavor Leaf]

You don’t really have the power to control the game, which is fine, that’s not your strong suit, but with a balanced team, you can do some major heavy lifting.

It’s how you fit into the gamestate.

I think you’re actually more Thing or Invisible Woman now that I think about it more.

[Flavor Leaf]

For instance, Krazy is a Mr. Fantastic.

Ankamius is a strong Invisible Woman, as is Maria. I think Ank’s got some Mr. Fantastic in them, though.

Pine is a Thing or Mr. Fantastic.

Hectic is like me, a Mr. Fantastic or a Human Torch.

[Flavor Leaf]

And you can always play different roles in different games, or even switch mid game. Those are just more natural roles

[Flavor Leaf]

Alisae is a Human Torch.

Titus is a Mr. Fantastic.

[Flavor Leaf]

FL I think Esp is town. Help me PoE the game. Who are your strong townreads other than Hectic/Aaron?
But also, why is Hectic a strong town read?

I like Hectic, but it might just be I like Hectic.

Tone felt nice on my readthrough, nothing stuck out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chris Evans

[Flavor Leaf]

The remake fantastic four didn’t have strong enough characters to fill this exercise

[Flavor Leaf]

You can essentially boil it down to basics.

Mr. Fantastic, the logical thinker, strategist, captain, run the day to day, keeps the scum thread informed of everything going on, and doing way too much work

Invisible Woman, usually the deepwolf type, not posting heavily, but expected to be able to carry a scum win if Mr. Fantastic goes down, and can easily shift into the gamestate leader in place of the Mr. Fantastic, but stays under the radar enough and can disappear.

The Thing, can be a powerhouse and distraction for scum, straight up makes a lot of noise, and destroys things. Doesn’t really have associations or sly maneuvers, they just react react react.

Human Torch, kind of trolly, think Elsa Jay scum. They can be a force to be reckoned with, more of a High Risk High Reward type of play. I’m definitely a combination of HT and Mr. Fantastic.

And like I said, you can switch, but I think most people tend to naturally play in a specific type of playstyle as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

why were there like 5 pages of nothing but draft discussion

it's all wifom at this point

I’m good at reading extreme WIFOM, and I think y’all should put more trust into my draft process analysis.

[Flavor Leaf]

Leafy, your logic for TSE regarding drafting is:
-Last person Ali would pick
-Therefore, raises his chance of being picked
-Which lowers the chance of him being picked
-Which puts him middle of the pack for picks

Your logic for yourself:
-Ali would never pick me
-Therefore, Ali would never pick me

why the difference?

I’m a general high draft, but not in Alisae’s eyes is the difference

[Flavor Leaf]

Holy shit fl. I just woke up and wasn't going to post anything until I had the chance to like read things and make notes and shit instead of just focusing on what jumps out at me( since apparently I haven't played in long enough that far fewer things are jumping out at me), but I just have to say: I really really want you to finish this draft analysis/scum role filling thing, whatever the hell it is you're doing, but you should absolutely do so AFTER the game is over because even if you're both town and 100% accurate, I do not see this as a line that is likely to be judged as convincing to most players, so it's really just filler.

You do you though man.

-Cerb

Oh yeah, I’m past it. I just need people to see where I’m coming from. I’ve mixed in analysis with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL:

You mentioned I had potential of being second in command scum? What does that even mean and why?

Like, if we were ever scum together, I’d go hard hard for a few days and trust if i go down, you’re finishing this game strong and getting the mvp plays at the endgame

[Flavor Leaf]

TSE I think is probably the last choice by Alisae on the surface, which actually probably raises them pretty high, which also lowers him simultaneously, and keep in the fact he is actually probably near the bottom, I’d say TSE ends just slightly underneath the middle of the pack in terms of picks.

What

I'm not sure if I follow Flavor's draft pick logic but that's because the logic is entirely WIFOM and I really hate WIFOM

WIFOM gets me Mafia Drunk.

[Flavor Leaf]

wow nobody else thinks that flavor leaf's entire string of postings recently are just all

bad?

X

[Flavor Leaf]

I am still waiting for people to accept that I can draft anyone in this playerlist and the only reason why I wouldn't draft someone is because of reasons that only I would know.

Exactly. Reasons that only Alisae and I would know.

Assuming that Ali didn't pick you and thinks that you might have a good idea of who e would pick because of irl experience, wouldn't e try to subvert that?

@Oka:

I'm just reading through them now and I don't like his WIFOM logic either. I'm not sure if it comes from scum though and I'm also not entirely sure how to read Boon. Like I ever won a scumgame with Boon recently and I still don't know how to read him

No, I don’t believe e would know that about me. E might even shrug me off.

And also, Oka was my main scum read and that was based on analysis, so it makes sense scum’s coming after me.

Espeonage/Okapoka/Maria/Spiffeh

Is my current solve.

Spiffeh could be replace by FA, and I’ve accepted I’m not catching RR if they’re scum, so up to someone else on that.

[Flavor Leaf]

example

You can essentially boil it down to basics.

Mr. Fantastic, the logical thinker, strategist, captain, run the day to day, keeps the scum thread informed of everything going on, and doing way too much work

Invisible Woman, usually the deepwolf type, not posting heavily, but expected to be able to carry a scum win if Mr. Fantastic goes down, and can easily shift into the gamestate leader in place of the Mr. Fantastic, but stays under the radar enough and can disappear.

The Thing, can be a powerhouse and distraction for scum, straight up makes a lot of noise, and destroys things. Doesn’t really have associations or sly maneuvers, they just react react react.

Human Torch, kind of trolly, think Elsa Jay scum. They can be a force to be reckoned with, more of a High Risk High Reward type of play. I’m definitely a combination of HT and Mr. Fantastic.

And like I said, you can switch, but I think most people tend to naturally play in a specific type of playstyle as scum.

People were confused and it was at the end of my post. I actually have been meaning to post this for a while, so out of like all the posts you could have chosen for an example, this was probably the worst one

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, y’all know I’m one of the biggest reaction test players on site, idk why this stuff continues to boggle’s people’s minds.

If you notice there were 3 people who actively are baton’, and the rest, while not necessarily liking the posts, seem to be spouting town reads.

Those 3 players...were the ones being scum read by me. Oka Poka, Maria, Espeonage

[Flavor Leaf]

I think I’d be able to exploit you pretty well if I were scum drafting against you at this point.

[Flavor Leaf]

Titus will you consider endorsing a flavor lynch

I think you’re more likely to get endorsed than me, HokeyPokey

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll vote any of my main 3

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll vote any of my main 3

You were one of the people who scum read me cause I'm frozen angel and have good scum game right? I think I was in your main 3?

who are the other 2 if I may ask?

Nah, you’re deep deep wolf material.

Okapoka/Maki/Espeonage are main 3.

You’re in the secondary with Spiffeh/RR.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because he’s the scum who’s making sure to keep me in check by tunneling.

Pretty classic

[Flavor Leaf]

So he also named the mislynch they want to get, and knocked down someone town reading me and that I’m high town reading

[Flavor Leaf]

My walls make perfect sense in my head, what you talkin bout confusion, i ain’t no low level psychic type,

[Flavor Leaf]

Good luck

[Flavor Leaf]

RC would vote me, but he votes town Me, so I’m town confirmed

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Okapoka

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your fake push

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m settling for you because I thought you were easier scum

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn’t scum read you in my first 10 posts, that’s a straight up lie

[Flavor Leaf]

I no longer town read OkaPoka either. Maki/Oka/Krazy slot have probably 1 maybe 2 scum within them, but more likely 1.

[Flavor Leaf]

Chemist/Amrun/TSE - are lean towns based on what I said earlier. TSE even moreso.

Gobbledygook/Bitmap are town reads of mine based on their play and posts, and position in the gamestate.

Spiffeh/Espeonage/Frozen Angel I think probably have scum in them based on their place in this game mixed with the drafting process and my other reads.

Okapoka’s probably just scum, especially if Krazy is town.

RR, idk, null.

OkaPoka/Maki/Espeonage is my way too early scum team, with probably like Spiffeh/FA.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okapoka
Espeonage
Maki
Ankamius

Then Spiffeh/RR/FA at a lower level is who keeps jumping out at me for the area to contain all the scum. Hmm...

[Flavor Leaf]

And I’m really starting to think OkaPoka is scum, which would make me think Krazy is town, and possibly Ank and Maria/Dunn scum?

[Flavor Leaf]

You’re doing the exact same thing Espeonage tried to do to me, but at a weaker level

[Flavor Leaf]

Pretty basic scum maneuver

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m actually not even focusing this game right now

[Flavor Leaf]

For like two seconds, but you got boring

[Flavor Leaf]

I could lie and say i like it like that

[Flavor Leaf]

Don’t you know too much already

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll only hurt you if you let me

[Flavor Leaf]

Call me friend but keep me closer

[Flavor Leaf]

Wow absolutely no surprises scum would go after me, i used some machine learning blockchain cloud analysis parsing the big data of the game state just wow

Been going after even before your

fake

push

Your real push happened before mine, your fake push happened after

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll call you when the party’s over

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay what about lying about the history to create a false gamestate premise

No, you’re the one lying. I split your push into pre flavor being here and after. You’re one after i showed up is fake

[Flavor Leaf]

Quiet when I’m coming home, and I’m on my own

[Flavor Leaf]

If anything that’s super town indicative of me

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay what about lying about the history to create a false gamestate premise

No, you’re the one lying. I split your push into pre flavor being here and after. You’re one after i showed up is fake

How is his push after you showed up fake? What is fake about it?

Forced. He wanted content, I gave a lot of content, he only focused on my “draft” talk.

I said a lot more than just that, I was posting for a long time, and the fact that other people saw it as townie, yet he’s acting like that doesn’t exist means he had already decided before I came into this game that I was going to be a scum read.

Also, I’m like pretty sure my draft picking is right and the stances towards me have been proving it. Espeonage/Oka have scum, maybe 2

[Flavor Leaf]

And his entire past couple pages is entirely trash and easy tunnel mode for scum, which is why I’m lolololtrololol’ing him

[Flavor Leaf]

What’s the benefit of that

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m not, but i still wanna know

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Espeonage is pretty town. What is scum indicative to you about his play?

He was hatcheting me

[Flavor Leaf]

Right after my drafting process

[Flavor Leaf]

In addition to being in the 2nd pool

[Flavor Leaf]

I kind of want HokeyPokey to get more pressure.

Earlier in the game, when talking about who can read him, OkaPoka put me on the list, and I said Iw want entirely sure if that were true.

His reactions here imply that I can actually read him. I caught him last year in a pool POE.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah and we let you go to lylo for a reason

This is a TMI post.


Ring this up. This is what I was looking for

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, I get hard BoP’d because of my record as scum over the past 6 years, so scum always feel like they can play the FL is scum card because of it

[Flavor Leaf]

Told ya.

Espeonage and Okapoka. Never should someone other than them be the lynch for the day

[Flavor Leaf]

Double Hatcheting is likely

[Flavor Leaf]

Chop chop chop chop

[Flavor Leaf]

I have

[Flavor Leaf]

But I’m always gonna reply to the people who come at me

[Flavor Leaf]

ngl, Oka seems p town to me from the whole exchange.

Like this is just bad. There’s zero chance that they are both town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Lynch HokeyPokey

[Flavor Leaf]

Interesting...that’s my third read. Idk how I feel about that.

[Flavor Leaf]

Titus, what say you, Kaito and Maki?

[Flavor Leaf]

I can’t say I scum read Kaito, Maki was scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Something’s hPpening. People are distracting from HokeyPokey

[Flavor Leaf]

Do the Hokey Pokey, and turn yourself about, that’s what it’s all about. Vote Okapoka

[Flavor Leaf]

This town is literally ran by chickens with their heads cut off

this spews me as town

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s page 80, it’s time for a lynch. This day phase should have ended like 50 pages ago.

VOTE: Maki

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all don’t believe HokeyPokey’s scum, so :shrug:

[Flavor Leaf]

End Day 1 now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ughhhh hokey pokey

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah, TSE’s wagon, we should just lynch HokeyPokey

[Flavor Leaf]

TSE’s *town

[Flavor Leaf]

Explain to me, please, why TSE as town; decides to purposefully engage with Ali repeatedly, doesn't listen to Titus, refuses to work with town, rejects options presented logically to mitigate his play style and give him an out that is helpful to town, and lastly, why does he even begin the game with randomness in a game where the entire scum premise is obfuscation and building artificial density in the thread.

Why does TSE as scum do that...?

[Flavor Leaf]

We can lynch HokeyPokey, bitmap.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have a thing:

Do you guys think Alisae would have pretend voted someone on their team by now?

I do.

Let’s lynch within those people.

[Flavor Leaf]

I only tell the truth with claims now because I have to change things up.