Mini Normal 2118: Boon Gets Pretentious - [Day 4]

[Ame]

Yo!

[Ame]

Everyone, please step up to the retinal scanner, place your hands on the GSR indicator, and answer the following questions. Remember to stare straight ahead and speak slowly and clearly into the VOID (verbally ominous intonation detector).

• What is the origin of your name?
  
• Do you like being scum, huh?
  Do you enjoy your scumminess? Do you revel in it like some sort of sick fast-food worker, who despite being sick is forced to come into work anyway because they aren't offered paid sick leave and need every working hour they can get just to get by?
  
  
• If Wimpy was driving a burger-mobile from the North, Aaron, electric banana skates from the South, Insomnia, a baseless read from the West, and Luca, a golden chariot
  from the East
  also from the West, who would you vote for?
  
• If Wednesday?
  
• Are you ready to join the town corpse...I mean Corps!?

Spoiler:

Hello everyone,

I would like to start by inform all of ya that i rolled town this game

What does that mean?

Well, i guess i can share a bit of a self read with you.

I prefer playing as town by a long shot, so i'm more interested and engaged

Also i'm willing to work together with ppl that i townread.

So let me know if there is anything i can do to help you read me.

You and I are going to get along well!

Yooo you town gurl?

Whatcha thinking of our hectic friend?

I am always town!

I don't have any thoughts on Hectic yet, I've been too enamored with flippyNip's Park & Rec GIFs

[Ame]

Their post is so inoffensive and nice, it feels like they’re trying to get on people’s good sides.

psh you think you know me dawg?

Spoiler:

I am

not

mafia.

I

am not mafia.
I

am

not mafia.
I am not

mafia

.

I

am

not

mafia.

I really wanted to play with Creative too

[Ame]

Well damn you must be telling the truth. After all, no one would ever lie about not being mafia in a game of mafia. That'd be silly...

THANK YOU

There's a crumb in Ame's post, guys. The italicised words spell:

Not I am mafia.

So she can't be mafia.

oof was I that obvious..

VOTE: ame

Something about this vote makes me want to say it’s probably townier than Aaron but I won’t explain why so don’t @ me

VOTE: Aaron

I don't like Luca's explanation. I don't get how I was trying to be nice. I'm mean

I mean I thought Ame's opening was pretty LAMIST so I think they're a good wagon right now. I'm also generally not a fan of RQS as it's usually not helpful.

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

[Ame]

Town
AaronFrost

Leaning Town
insomnia
dsjstr
Luca Blight
Hectic

Leaning Scum
Wimpy
clidd
Emperor flippyNips

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Liar.

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Vote: flippyNips

[Ame]

Why the scum read on me?

Lack of posting

[Ame]

Oh right I legit thought it was Monday

[Ame]

Convenient burger

[Ame]

I'm good with my three. Lynch them and win. It's not much left.

[Ame]

Actually put Luca down there too.

Rev.

Town
AaronFrost

Leaning Town
insomnia
dsjstr
Luca Blight
Hectic

Leaning Scum
Wimpy
clidd

Leaning Scum+
Luca
Emperor flippyNips

Nips > Luca > Clidd > Wimpy for win

[Ame]

Town
AaronFrost

Leaning Town
insomnia
dsjstr
Luca Blight
Hectic

Leaning Scum
Wimpy
clidd
Emperor flippyNips

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Liar.

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Vote: flippyNips

OMGUS much

omgus is usually a town reaction

but im voting you cause you're a liar. if i were voting for omgus, id be voting aaron or wimpy

[Ame]

If you’re town you ruin our chances to win. People who scum read people on v/la are lazy and unwilling to scum hunt. Your reads should never be trusted

I told you already I thought it was Monday. I revoke that reasoning. You're scum cause you feel weird

[Ame]

OMGUS much

omgus is usually a town reaction

but im voting you cause you're a liar. if i were voting for omgus, id be voting aaron or wimpy[/quote]

Who said it’s normally a town thing? Not me

& please, do tell where I lied[/quote]You didn't have an impression on my opening. Your later reasoning for voting me is fabricated.

[Ame]

@Ame

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

What do you make of it considering no one has answered your questions.

It wasn't really that serious. I didn't expect anyone to answer them really.

[Ame]

If you’re town you ruin our chances to win. People who scum read people on v/la are lazy and unwilling to scum hunt. Your reads should never be trusted

I told you already I thought it was Monday. I revoke that reasoning. You're scum cause you feel weird

Save it. You seriously messed up poking the bear. I am death tunneling you now. I’ll attack every post you make. Point out every flaw. Make your life miserable.

I get why you think maintaining the read after the reasoning was disproving is scummy, but my explanation was really instinctual explanation for gut feelings. The explanation was wrong but the gut feelings remain. Like you being mad here just seems forced.

[Ame]

It wasn't really that serious. I didn't expect anyone to answer them really.

This post kinda proves otherwise. Clearly you were expecting people to respond, and intending to use the responses for analysis.

Those questions aren't random. They are the result of hundreds of hours of research into the best way of identifying vocal discrepancies between town and scum. The test has a 97.7% accuracy rating. Scum simply can't help but exhibit certain physiological responses when answering.

Aaron, it's a joke. We can't actually hear people's voices in this game or measure their GSR (Galvanic Skin Response). There was nothing serious about my questions at all. I was just writing bad Sci-Fi.

[Ame]

@everyone please let’s lynch AME before this game gets out of control.

Let's just not rush a lynch. I agree that Ame's read/vote on you is bad, but I'm not rushing a lynch over it.

Ame can you walk me through your reads a little more? I'm a little weary of me being your strongest townread when I've been the biggest push on you.

Town
AaronFrost - Your vote felt natural to me and it feels like you don't have any shame. When Luca voted me, Hectic said something like "tred lightly Luca," so if you were scum there, I think you would have had an aversion to mafia. Your interaction with somni also felt natural.

Leaning Town
insomnia - Somni is currently my town axiom, essentially playing the game on the assumption they are town. they remain this way until/unless the game becomes inconsistent with this assumption. Also my initial impression of their interaction with you is someone trying to scum hunt with scare resources
dsjstr - Creative's self-meta post just seemed townie to me
Hectic - randomly defending me for no reason. doesn't seem like a scum move

Leaning Scum
Wimpy - something doesn't seem right. like a sense of nervousness. I think something about his insomnia vote felt off and his reaction to my read seems like he's trying to emulate himself.
clidd - lack of posting

Leaning Scum+
Luca - I didn't like his reasoning for voting me. Nothing about my post was trying to be nice. His unvote also seemed unnatural. I'm not sure how much of this is just him being V/LA though.
Emperor flippyNips - His reasoning for voting me was fake. He didn't have any impression of my intro post. And I think he forgot that.

[Ame]

I think you would have had an aversion to voting me as mafia*

[Ame]

Insomia said if anyone called his reads baseless he’d essentially lose his shit. I did that and nothing. So I voted him to try and like the bear some more. And still nothing.

This is scum trying to keep their cool. Insomnia doesn’t strike me as a guy who keeps his cool.

Oh, nice! That makes a lot of sense.

[Ame]

Vote: Insomnia

[Ame]

What's your read on him (Wimpy)? And are you still scum reading Aaron?

[Ame]

I'm L1 I think.

[Ame]

You implied that you either had a town read or no read on my opening. Then you used my opening to justify voting me. From that I inferred that you forgot about the question you asked before which implied your town/null read. From that, I inferred that your reasoning for voting me was fabricated. From that, I inferred that you are mafia.

[Ame]

Aaron’s explanation and posts are generally aesthetically pleasing if I were to describe it in some way. The way he handled my slot I read as not the type of trying to appease a town member from dropping the push.

Could you point out what is aesthetically pleasing about them? This is a town indicator for you?

[Ame]

how did i imply that i had a tr on your opening? i don't think i've talked about my reads at all really

A town OR null read. Maybe for stylistic purposes, I should word it as a "null or town read".

My only post when you asked the below question was my opening. It implies that you had a null or town read on me, which implied that you had a null or town read on my opening:

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Then, here you voted me for the reason of not liking my opening:

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Again, from this I inferred that you forgot about your previous question, which led me to think you aren't genuinely game solving and fabricated a reason to vote for me.

[Ame]

Aaron’s explanation and posts are generally aesthetically pleasing if I were to describe it in some way. The way he handled my slot I read as not the type of trying to appease a town member from dropping the push.

Could you point out what is aesthetically pleasing about them? This is a town indicator for you?

Well yeah because it sort of goes hand in hand with the tone almost, I take them as the same thing. That’s what I meant.

I mean not sure what you would like me to point out as it isn’t anything individualistic it’s rather holistic and if you didn’t see it, not sure why you’d do after I pointed it out

Holistic to me is just a way to say something without really saying anything. I'm asking you to be specific because I want to know there is real merit to your read. A person's tone is based on the words they write and how they string them together. Could you point out to me, which of Aaron's posts are indicative of a town tone to you?

I'm sorry, I missed or don't quite understand your question. Could you rephrase?

[Ame]

Tone is the outcome of using specific words, responses, and grammar modifications. When pondering deeply enough about why something gives a certain impression, it can be broken down.

I'd be content with just knowing which of his posts give you the impression of town, even if you're not willing to break down why. And to be clear, you do currently town read him, correct?

[Ame]

Also what do you think about the point I made about flippy?

[Ame]

Yes!

Vote: flippy

Also thank you for the quotes. I had actually completely missed that you had already started to consider town Aaron before you logged off.

[Ame]

your wimpy read sucks from all PoVs possible

I completely agree.

[Ame]

My thinking on Wimpy went something like:
-See Wimpy attempting to antogonize Somni
-Pinged as I couldn't recall Wimpy doing much else
-Make half assed read list
-Asked about my Wimpy read
-Give instinctual explanation
-Realize Wimpys lack of posting is from vla.
-Taken aback by Wimpys sudden anger. Reinforces scum pings. But not sure. The whole situation just strange.
-Damage is done at this point, but on next page I realize he probably is just town, especially after he explained his Somni antagonizing, which seemed to me to have been coming from a investigatory perspective

My read list wasn't fully thought through. It was mainly an attempt to get some flow into the game because we seemed stuck. I didn't fully evaluate my own thoughts yet and was developing them in the moment. When Wimpy reacted the way he did, with phrases like "I'm going to make your life miserable," "you're dead to me," and "MFer" I was taken a back and a bit flustered. Sourly, it caused me to double down on my feelings, when I really should have abandoned them at that point. After sleep, that is obvious to me now.

I'll answer your other question in just a little bit Somni.

[Ame]

Somni is currently my town axiom, essentially playing the game on the assumption they are town. they remain this way until/unless the game becomes inconsistent with this assumption. Also my initial impression of their interaction with you is someone trying to scum hunt with scare resources

The first part of that made me ask myself whether you have read any of my posts but I guess you skimmed some of em.

My question was if you town read me on auto and didn't try to read my posts because that's what scum often do to me, they town read me asap and don't want to deal with me.

If so, you jumping the gun on Wimpy's point seemed opportunistic because you left from the premise of I'm town, you didn't read my posts and then at the first sight you vote me. Especially when your slot was quite under some scrutiny.

So, is your town read on me any serious or where are you at wrt my slot?

It's more that there's some players I prefer to read from the periphery rather than head-on either because I think I resonate with their thinking process or because I think they are too good for me to be caught as small things for scum and are more likely to slip up in a position of comfort/power. In logic, there's something called proof by contradiction whereby you assume an argument is invalid, then work through it for contradictions. If you come across a contradiction, it isn't invalid, otherwise, you continue to assume it is until you've worked out all the possibilities. Analogously, that's the way I play the game and why sometimes my reads may seem to suddenly jump. If I scum read someone for something (regardless of how small), I'm under the assumption that they are scum until a contradiction arises, in which case I'm willing to abandon my read almost immediately.

In your case, I did get an initial town impression from you, and having ~3 scum leans in a 2-scum game I felt comfortable enough working with that, and that if you were scum, it would show in time through your reads (i.e. if they started to radically diverge and I couldn't follow your thought process). I had a bit of doubt from your Aaron push because Aaron seemd pretty town to me, and at the time of Wimpy's antagonizing explanation, I felt you were worth exploring. What I thought to be a sudden change in your Aaron read was suspicious to me, but looking at you closer I saw that you did actually express those thoughts before. This made me feel a lot better and it was consistent with my thinking that town somni = similar reads. When I went to bed, my only lingering concern was your Wimpy read (I had intended to question it when I was back), and even that was addressed on its own. So, overall, yea I do TR you.

[Ame]

I’ll get to this tomorrow, but does anyone else think Ame’s entrance post was very nice/inoffensive?

That’s certainly the feeling I got from it, so their denying it seems strange to me.

What about it gave you that impression? The only person I addressed in a forward-looking manner was creative. The other portions were a silly Sci-Fi opening, the expression of a null read, and a joke about flippy's GIFs. As for Creative, I mentioned elsewhere that I'm a cooperative player that likes to bounce things off of my town reads. Creative mentioned this same process in his opening post, which is I why I felt we'd get along well.

I also don’t get was unnatural about my ‘unvote’ (which was actually a change in vote) Ame, so perhaps you could elaborate on that.

You unvoted an active slot that was under pressure in favor of an inactive slot. It didn't seem like a natural switch.

Spoiler:

Town
AaronFrost

Leaning Town
insomnia
dsjstr
Luca Blight
Hectic

Leaning Scum
Wimpy
clidd
Emperor flippyNips

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Liar.

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Vote: flippyNips

This is bad - why are you assuming Flips lied, and did not simply agree with my reasoning?

I notice you changed me to a SR from a TR shortly after this post despite the fact I hadn’t posted in between. Should I assume your initial TR was a lie as well?

I explained this a few times (I understand you're still vla):

You implied that you either had a town read or no read on my opening. Then you used my opening to justify voting me. From that I inferred that you forgot about the question you asked before which implied your town/null read. From that, I inferred that your reasoning for voting me was fabricated. From that, I inferred that you are mafia.

how did i imply that i had a tr on your opening? i don't think i've talked about my reads at all really

A town OR null read. Maybe for stylistic purposes, I should word it as a "null or town read".

My only post when you asked the below question was my opening. It implies that you had a null or town read on me, which implied that you had a null or town read on my opening:

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Why do you have bad feels on ame.? I get the hectic one

Then, here you voted me for the reason of not liking my opening:

VOTE: ame

Yeah I didn’t like their opening post either & im liking Aaron rn

Again, from this I inferred that you forgot about your previous question, which led me to think you aren't genuinely game solving and fabricated a reason to vote for me.

As for my TL/SL. It's the other way around, I initially put you as a TL, thought about it some more and changed my mind. Btw I think I think the nuance between TLSL/TRSR may be different for me than it is here. For me TLSL are just tenuious impressions. They don't hold a ton of weight.

[Ame]

Aaron, it's a joke. We can't actually hear people's voices in this game or measure their GSR (Galvanic Skin Response). There was nothing serious about my questions at all. I was just writing bad Sci-Fi.

ummmmmmmm...


So like do you think I can hear your voice...? And have a machine that can actually detect vocal fluctuations and whatnot?

[Ame]

I was joking about being mean. But I genuinely don't see how I was being nice. This might mean something different between us. Do you mean friendly?

[Ame]

Ok that makes sense. Nice has a different meaning to me than friendly. I have gotten both of these things before.

[Ame]

Are y'all just like coldhearted mafia consumers? To me, mafia is a social game, and I enjoy making friends in the process.

[Ame]

Why would she push a V/LA slot as scum

Why would she as town?

How about I just see the act as disgusting and technically a violation of site rules and because of that she doesn’t deserve to play. I personally scum read the act. If nobody else does that’s fine.

I'm going to try and reach out to you one more time, but you're really making this unfun to play and are crossing the line. Even if I did think you were vla, that's not a valid reason for you to be taking this to a personal level. Stick to the game. That being said, it genuinely wasn't in my mind at the time that you were V/LA. You didn't have a banner like Luca and Hectic and I had been off the internet for more than 24 hours. Your weekend thing simply wasn't at the forefront of my mind. Weekends aren't a defining part of my week as they are for most people as they aren't a break in my routine.

[Ame]

Like even if AME didn't mean to use my v/la against me, even if it was an accident. 2 of their scum reads were people who were low posters. Now Ame was also a low poster so a low poster who scum reads other low posters is lazy, hypocritical, and probably trying to deflect away from herself.

I don't particularly see those traits as townie. her explanation that they were half assed reads just makes it worse.

not to mention she actually scum reads me being angry. Some people argue it's townie but I don't agree with that. Anger is NAI. It definitely isn't something that makes you increase your scum read.


so removing the fact that she "didn't know I was v/la" her actions still reak of scum.

Now this is more like it!

To address your points, the low posting is independent of scuminess. You say it's hypocritical of me to have scum read 2 low posters at the time while also being a low poster, but the irony is that you were in the same situation. I had you/Luca on my list and you had me/Luca on your list.

[Ame]

@hectic/anyone else that's asked me a question, I'll respond later when on desktop.

[Ame]

Nah, suddenly changing his mind on someone (like he did with Ame) is something he doesn't really do as scum. He's more careful.

I feel like he changed it because he was pressured to do so. It didn't feel like he was trying to figure me out before.

[Ame]

Are y'all just like coldhearted mafia consumers? To me, mafia is a social game, and I enjoy making friends in the process.

How were my RQS answers?

Felt bad that no one answered Ame's questions, so:

• What is the origin of your name?
  
• Do you like being scum, huh?
  Do you enjoy your scumminess? Do you revel in it like some sort of sick fast-food worker, who despite being sick is forced to come into work anyway because they aren't offered paid sick leave and need every working hour they can get just to get by?
  
  
• If Wimpy was driving a burger-mobile from the North, Aaron, electric banana skates from the South, Insomnia, a baseless read from the West, and Luca, a golden chariot
  from the East
  also from the West, who would you vote for?
  
• If Wednesday?
  
• Are you ready to join the town corpse...I mean Corps!?

1) Landed on "Hectic" as an online name more than a decade ago. I like it.
2) Absolutely. I relish being scum, and you'll often find me replacing out of games where I roll town. What's the point of playing mafia if you don't get to lie to your friends?
3) I'd vote for Ame driving in with the RQS from the East.
4) It's the horse's name?
5) I need a list of benefits first.

Spoiler: Processing...

Code: Select all

Q1 
Heartrate: normal
Respiration: normal
Perspiration: normal
Saccades: normal 
Pupils dilation: normal
Pitch: normal
Resonance: normal
Speech rate: normal

Q2
Heartrate: increased
Respiration: increased
Perspiration: increased
Saccades: normal 
Pupils dilation: normal
Pitch: normal
Resonance: normal
Speech rate: increased

Q3
Heartrate: increased
Respiration: increased
Perspiration: increased
Saccades: stagnant 
Pupils dilation: anomaly detected
Pitch: anomaly detected
Resonance: anomaly detected
Speech rate: decreased

Q4
Heartrate: increased
Respiration: increased
Perspiration: increased
Saccades: anomaly detected 
Pupils dilation: anomaly detected
Pitch: anomaly detected
Resonance: anomaly detected
Speech rate: irregular

Q5
Heartrate: anomaly detected
Respiration: anomaly detected
Perspiration: anomaly detected
Saccades: anomaly detected 
Pupils dilation: anomaly detected
Pitch: anomaly detected
Resonance: anomaly detected
Speech rate: irregular

Code: Select all

% Scum: 87.9

This exceeds the passing threshold. Please proceed to the extermination chamber for further processing.

In your case, I did get an initial town impression from you, and having ~3 scum leans in a 2-scum game I felt comfortable enough working with that, and that if you were scum, it would show in time through your reads (i.e. if they started to radically diverge and I couldn't follow your thought process).

I had a bit of doubt from your Aaron push because Aaron seemed pretty town to me, and at the time of Wimpy's antagonizing explanation, I felt you were worth exploring.

What I thought to be a sudden change in your Aaron read was suspicious to me, but looking at you closer I saw that you did actually express those thoughts before. This made me feel a lot better and it was consistent with my thinking that town somni = similar reads. When I went to bed, my only lingering concern was your Wimpy read (I had intended to question it when I was back), and even that was addressed on its own. So, overall, yea I do TR you.

At what point in this thought process did the insomnia vote come in?

The colored part. Aaron was my only town read at the time. Insomnia was more of an impression. Wimpy's points about Insomnia not reacting to his antagonism made sense to me and I felt that avenue was worth exploring.

@Ame can i see your actual reads ?

I don't have strong reads at the moment. Currently, from towniest to most suspicious, my impressions are something like: Clidd > dsjstr > Aaron > Insomnia > Wimpy > Hectic > Luca > Flippy

Earlier today I was feeling stronger about Luca because his interaction with me came off as less curt than I'd expect, which gave me the impression that he was treading lightly. The reasoning in #342 is also suspicious to me. Luca claims that he felt better about me by 84, but I hadn't done anything differently. I was still joking around. This reinforces my initial suspicion that his reasoning for voting me wasn't genuine and that he's only making this claim to justify his switch to Clidd. That being said, he's currently trending up from this last page, particularly from his request for Clidd to switch from Flippy, which doesn't seem a probable scum move.

Aaron is trending down for seemingly not comprehending my sarcasm, which is just weird.

I'm paranoid of Insomnia. I'm not quite sure what about my post was so townie.

djstr's approach to the flippy wagon reads town to me.

Clidd seems like he believes his reads and I like his tone.

I still think Wimpy could have been emulating his tunnel. If he really felt the way he did, I'll be disappointed. This is another reason why I'm wary of Insomnia, for ~clearing Wimpy in 364 and 375. I think it's very possible Wimpy was mimicking the type of behavior he is town read for. That being said, I do think he's more likely town than not.

I don't feel one way or the other about Hectic. He's only on the lower end because of how I feel about those above. I did have a hypothesis that only scum would take the time to answer my opening questions, but I'm not going to use that against him. If he does flip scum, however, I'm definitely going to use this for a future game :3

[Ame]

Got it.

[Ame]

Aaron is trending down for seemingly not comprehending my sarcasm, which is just weird.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text, I don't get why that's AI.

did you really think I had some sort of voice analyzing matching?????????

[Ame]

machine*

[Ame]

Ame, if you think me answering an RQS is scum-indicative, please see: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11457012 (it's a nice read)

Thanks! I think the situations are different because they were asking genuine questions that pertained to the game, whereas mine was a satirical RQS with questions that had no value. That being said, it really is NAI unless I obtain enough data from games (with players I haven't played with before) to suggest that it isn't. This is the first time I made that opening, so I have nothing to compare it to.

Did my explanation for why I voted Insomnia at the time satisfy your concern?

[Ame]

Because he wouldn't say this as scum. We played a game together, and he's acting the same way (he was town that game).

Best way to play as scum is to play how you would as town

Do you know the player TSE ? (TrueSoulEnergy) I am feeling something similar with your playstyle (scum indicative).

I like this post, not sure this PoV comes from mafia either. Feeling as though scum would just deliberately choose to push someone for their in-game content rather than just choose to compare them to another player's style, I have yet to see wolves take this approach, surprisingly. it's like trying to justify a gut feeling, all the while not being able to properly put the finger on the "why", so they choose to do it by comparing it to another player, whereas scum wouldn't even bother to make such points, hope that makes some sense.

@Hectic, what do you think about this point?

[Ame]

Insomia said if anyone called his reads baseless he’d essentially lose his shit. I did that and nothing. So I voted him to try and like the bear some more. And still nothing.

This is scum trying to keep their cool. Insomnia doesn’t strike me as a guy who keeps his cool.

Oh, nice! That makes a lot of sense.

I guess I missed this post, Ame, but why didn't you mention disliking his weird push on Aaron in your reads list, since it came before?

It was just something in my mind that didn't hold much weight. I thought Wimpys point was more interesting.

[Ame]

I like and agree with Insomnia's point on Clidd. I also empathize with Clidds seemingly irrational townlocking/PoE as I often play in a similar fashion.

Flippy doesn't feel like he's actually contributing anything. But the "remember when you mled me" reads as real town frustration. I've never seen scum actually use FUD in that fashion.

[Ame]

@Somni, I know it's normal here, but 2 week day phases is not something I've ever played before. It's absurdly long to me and I'm trying to place myself or I'll get way too antsy.

[Ame]

pace*

Also there's just not a whole lot to go off of!

[Ame]

I don't think it matters how legitimate it is, it's more about his interpretation/feelings. From his perspective, you mled him and he feels you're doing the same here. I've reacted with similar frustration before and I've had others react to me the same. Every time it's come from town. It's just such a lulzy thing to do as scum.

[Ame]

This gameplay of yours isn't reminiscing of others where you were town, it feels like you aren't really that invested and you seem to be really invested and active and have a lot of direction and pull

you just lack all of that here and it makes me doubt on my read which i really don't want to because i really feel like flippy is just scum here and i don't want to tunnel you because you aren't town telling anymore in your posts

I understand and it makes me feel even better about you that you feel this way, because I

am

playing differently. I'll try to kick it up a notch.

[Ame]

Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. Basically appealing to ones previous faults.

[Ame]

Flippy doesn't feel like he's actually contributing anything.

Also there's just not a whole lot to go off of!

i've shared my thoughts every chance i get. idk what you want from me

I don't think you've provided anything unique. It's like you've been in the constant wake of others. Like there's no initiative

[Ame]

Did you ever explain what caused the shift from Luca-town to scum in your read lists, my Ami, Miami?

I had an initial ping on Luca (84). Then TLed his 109. Then Aarons 113 made me reconsider. He posted at the same time I made my first list. I read his post afterward, reconsidered, and made my revised list.

[Ame]

Also digging the pun!

[Ame]

Flippy doesn't feel like he's actually contributing anything.

Also there's just not a whole lot to go off of!

i've shared my thoughts every chance i get. idk what you want from me

I don't think you've provided anything unique. It's like you've been in the constant wake of others. Like there's no initiative

we'll agree to disagree

Why is Insomnia still scum if you TR my post you quitted earlier? Why is his push on you scum indicative if he's done similarly before as town? What parts of my explanations to your points aren't satisfactory to you?

[Ame]

*quoted

because I am playing differently.

uhhhhhhhhh

why?

484. It's just a matter of the game being a different pace. There's no master plan or anything.

[Ame]

Are you town reading Luca because you're scum reading him or because your actually town reading him?

[Ame]

Okay, what caused the shift on your clidd-read, Flippo? Also, get on him over Ame if you agree. Every time I've asked Ame to explain her thought process revolving around something she's done/flipped on, she's provided something that feels legitimate.

well when i talked about clidd before it was strictly #250 every other post gives me off vibess. they feel like hes trying to say what people would tr him for. & him "locktowning" luca seems like a pocketing attempt

did she ever explain the insom tr then vote then almost immediate vote switch to me?

if so i'll give it a rest for now

Yeah, in 422. I don't think it warrants going from "insomnia is my town axiom" to voting him but at least there's an explanation.

I see the confusion with my Insomnia read. Your interpreting axiom as a "strong read," but what I meant was "starting point." In mafia, you only have as many degrees of freedom for reading players as there are scum. Meaning, once you have the number of scum reads as there are scum, everyone else is solved. Therefore it makes sense for reads to be dynamic and relative to each other. Town reads increase the probability that other players are scum and scum reads decrease the probability. I had an early town impression of somni (not a strong read, just an impression) so townSomni was my starting point for evaluating the game. Something that can (and did) easily change when encountering contradictory evidence or if PoE isn't lining up. That's just the way I play the game and why I empathize with Clidds style because I think he goes about things in a similar fashion.

[Ame]

VOTE: Karnage

I think Wimpy was BSing. He's stubborn but not unreasonable. If someone makes a point to change what he dislikes, I think he would adjust his perspective on them accordingly. I had completely retracted my low post reasoning on him once I realized he was V/LA, but he kept ignoring that and speaking as if it weren't the case. He also made it seem like he didn't know what I meant about him emulating himself, then perfectly explained it to insomnia later on. The replace out is NAI.

[Ame]

Nah I think I'm right here.

TRing Flippy

[Ame]

I feel better about Aaron from this last page. I still want an answer to my question though Aaron, it wasn't rhetorical!

Pedit: VOTE: Luca

Nope!

[Ame]

Aaron is obvtown. It's highly doubtful to me that townLuca wouldn't see it.

[Ame]

You have a 100% read rate on him, yet your voting him after a splurge of obvtown posts.

[Ame]

He's completely different than last game. No shame. He's been scum hunting the entire time you've been discussing with him rather than just reacting defensively. He's also making legit points. For example, his #550 is a solid point. He's not deflecting at all. You didn't really pursue Clidds read on you.

[Ame]

He brought up the point off hand as a natural extension of the topic. He didn't bring it up before simply because you guys weren't talking about it before. It's clear that it's a thought that occurred to him in that moment.

[Ame]

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

[Ame]

There's nothing about his post that suggest he was using the point to throw shade at you. He didn't make an accusation. He explained himself, then made his own inquiry into you.

[Ame]

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

So you're suddenly confident I'm scum based on this, are you?

Yep, fairly confident!

Along with the rest of your play this game, it's highly doubtful that you're town here.

[Ame]

He brought up the point off hand as a natural extension of the topic. He didn't bring it up before simply because you guys weren't talking about it before. It's clear that it's a thought that occurred to him in that moment.

I don't know what else to say. The fact that you're not getting this is unreasonable to me.

[Ame]

Want to elaborate on the rest of my play?

Your voting pattern is clunky. It just doesn't have a natural flow to it. Your vote on me, switch to Clidd, and now your vote on Aaron. You also accepted Clidds reads too easily. And you have an overall sense of trying not to step on people's toes. There's this underlying guilt I feel.

[Ame]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

[Ame]

xD it is pretty funny how similar they are. However, the "explain the progression" phrasing at the end of lines is an Aaron idiosyncrasy, not a scumAaron idiosyncrasy. Additionally he was implying an accusation towards you in the quoted post. Here it came off as a genuine inquiry that naturally led from what you're were discussing.

[Ame]

So you're suspecting me for two votes during RVS, that have both been fully explained, accepting Clidd's reads even though I didn't accept them as you can see in 352, and for 'not stepping on people's toes', even though I've just been stepping on Frost's and earlier yours, Clidd's and Insomnia's?

Your reasoning behind the votes is satisfactory, but their timing is still off. Unnatural really is the best way to describe it. I know it's not something you can really defend against, but I don't really know how else to put it.

Regarding stepping on toes, even when you have been pushing people, it's come off as sort of soft. It doesn't feel like your full weight is behind them. I'll see if I can pick up on some specific phrasing to explain tomorrow.

[Ame]

I believe he was implying an accusation to me here as well.

Are you still unshaken in your belief that I'm scum and Frost is Town?

I'll reconsider after some sleep. Night!

[Ame]

@Hectic. Only one game: Aaron scum, Luca town. I could be wrong about Aaron. The post Luca quoted is comedically identical to his post here. But they are both playing very differently than the recent game I played with them, I'm inclined to think their roles are reversed here.

[Ame]

@Insomnia what do you think?

[Ame]

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

I can't help it that you're obvious

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Him not acting in the way you think would be optimal for him as scum is not a town tell. And the idea that he has a secret SR on you is entirely unwarranted and you know it.

And yes, I am inclined to agree with his conclusions. However, I don't know if it became notorious, but it seems quite obvious that he is instigating Aaron's reaction right now. The dialogue between both was not purely accusatory, but suggestively informative. Luca is trying to sort out the peculiarities of Aaron's behavior in this game, disregarding the neutral standard he usually sets in his games. By doing this now, it becomes more unlikely that Aaron, in case of being scum, will be able to draw his way to the mid/late game, especially due to the verbal discrepancy and high potential for antagonization if, in fact, the 3-way or 4-way players occurs.

His read is serious, not investigative. He even stated that this is his first massive scum read.

[Ame]

Luca, what are your current reads?

[Ame]

Luca, what are your current reads?

I still TR Flips and dsjstr.

I currently think scum is among Frost, Ame and Insomnia, but need to review Hectic who seemed off earlier.

Where are Clidd and Karnage for you?

[Ame]

@Hectic why did you think Aaron town read Clidd?
@Karnage it didn't go anywhere. There's nothing about my posts that imply that it did. Luca is more suspicious.

[Ame]

Yeah I'm actually not getting that bit either. Somni why are you arguing that Aarons play is different if you didn't read the pages?

[Ame]

Is that an actual thought you have? Lmfao

If you’re gonna push my top town read, especially when we have the same experience with them (Aaron), then why the fuck wouldn’t I scum read you for not seeing what I’m seeing?

He’s playing so differently than his scum game that there’s no world where this guy is scum

And you not seeing it of course is gonna make me scum read you more

Somni, you stated here that it's scummy for Luca not to see it, but you haven't looked into why he's scumreading him (the pages you skimmed)? Was Aarons early play enough to exclude a possible tell Luca picked up on those pages?

[Ame]

Aarons reaction to Luca's pressure is obviously an important factor though. If you're reading Aaron off of two different things, how can you be so sure that Luca's perception is wrong?

[Ame]

Luca, where are you on Karnage and Clidd?

[Ame]

There's one explanation I can think of for townSomni's reasoning there, but I'll let him explain so as not to put words in his mouth.

Luca, can you explain again why you think Clidd is town? Hectic pointed out how Clidd is being analytical as expected. And the reasoning behind many of his reads is unreasonable. That isn't suspicious to you?

Also, you are town reading Clidd and Flippy because you believe their posting style aligns to their town meta. Why are you not extending Aaron that same freedom? You're claiming that his actions are more important than his style, correct? Why does that not apply to flippy and Clidd here?

[Ame]

how Clidd isn't* being analytical

[Ame]

Thank you, that makes sense. What do you think about Clidd's assumption that you have a secret scum read on him but aren't voicing it in order to keep his vote on your side?

[Ame]

Spoiler:

And I think it's unreasonable that you're SR'ing me so strongly because I disagree on Frost.

If you want to admit that your perfect record on Aaron is now broken, I'll drop it

(But not really)

Seriously, your apparent confidence that Frost is Town based on the above is disturbing to me.

Although I kind of agree with this, I tend to get worried that I'm being pocketed whenever people overly townread me.

I can't help it that you're obvious

@Clidd looks like your intuition was wrong.

No,

absolutely not

. Of course, he may be confused, or even acting sporadically, but he remains town. The point where he looked for my two games, was where I became convinced of that. It would be very easy to push me to get lynched based on the premise of Hectic, for example, which creates a parallel with the effort that I usually apply in some matches. Considering that he did not act according to 3 or 4 scenarios in which he could definitely have achieved my lynch today, it is plausible to confirm him as locktown (at least in my view). It is also likely that he still has a strong SR on me, but prefers to simulate an apathy about it in exchange for my collaboration, judging that statistically, it is advantageous to have support in the voting phase, regardless of alignment.

Him not acting in the way you think would be optimal for him as scum is not a town tell. And the idea that he has a secret SR on you is entirely unwarranted and you know it.

And yes, I am inclined to agree with his conclusions. However, I don't know if it became notorious, but it seems quite obvious that he is instigating Aaron's reaction right now. The dialogue between both was not purely accusatory, but suggestively informative. Luca is trying to sort out the peculiarities of Aaron's behavior in this game, disregarding the neutral standard he usually sets in his games. By doing this now, it becomes more unlikely that Aaron, in case of being scum, will be able to draw his way to the mid/late game, especially due to the verbal discrepancy and high potential for antagonization if, in fact, the 3-way or 4-way players occurs.

His read is serious, not investigative. He even stated that this is his first massive scum read.

Hum, no. There are no predefined limiters of what is or is not considered a towntell under points formulated from someone's subjective perception, especially if we enter the individual spheres of thought, which are shaped by experiences that diverge between players. So what for me can be a gigantic towntell, for you, however, can be null. I don't see why my speculation about a hidden SR is not valid, considering that a good strategic part of our thoughts are not transparent to the public. An example of this would be to tell your plan openly and expect it to work properly, when you could have used the element of surprise to enhance its effectiveness. And about his tone, obviously, it is not difficult to deduce the fact that Luca questioned more aggressively the reason for Aaron's behavior to collect information, as well as realizing that the seriousness content is relatively suggestive and tends to seek more firmness in the interaction between the two. In other words, try asking a criminal if he murdered a person in a friendly tone, I guarantee your answer will not be satisfactory.

Many tells are subjective, but they are still either valid or invalid. In this case, however, your town tell is objectively invalid. There are a number of reasons why Luca wouldn't push you:

• 1. He felt it would look bad pushing you. This particularly makes sense because he received early suspicions for his vote on you.
  2. He is playing cautiously and didn't feel there was a solid enough reason to push you.
  3. He felt it would be more advantageous for you to town read him than it would be to lynch you.

Only if you have evidence that eliminates each of these possibilities would your reasoning and tell be valid. Yet the evidence is actually in favor of point 1.

As for he having a secret scum read on you, it's a gross assumption about the mindstate of another that you simply have no foundation for.

[Ame]

About to go back to sleep, but will just reply to a couple of points before I do:

Different play doesn’t mean different alignment. Insomnia, Ame and apparently myself are all playing differently this game, and yet it seems objectively impossible we could all be a different alignment from the last game. Frost being inquisitive isn’t a town tell - he’s asking passive questions which is the easiest thing to fake.

It's not simply a matter of you and Aaron playing differently, it's

how

. There's a number of aspects in Aaron play that are so different than his scum play a game ago, it's not reasonable to think that he made such improvements in such a short amount of time. This is especially the case because these are features that no one really explicitly scum read him for in the previous game. It's not like we sat down with him and pointed out the scummy aspects of his play. In such a case, it would make sense for him to have changed those features in his next scum game, but that is not so. These features include:

• Overexplaining his process. Example 1. Example 2.
  
• Backing down when faced with pressure. Example 1 (same as above). Example 2.
  
• Overconfident reads. Example 1. Example 2. Example 3. This one is particularly telling since it's a characteristic he's shown across multiple games.

Theses are all underlying features of his scum play that he most likely was not aware of, and he is exhibiting the opposite of this game: explaining the minimum of his process and only when asked (for example he's completely ignored my multiple requests for him to explain how he didn't pick up on my sarcasm), failing to back down when faced with pressure (both his reaction to Somni and to you were confident/not appeasing), and unconfident reads.

There are also a couple of tone differences (friendly tone in his scum game, standoffish tone here), but I'm excluding that because that

is

something that is easily alterable. To so drastically alter these other characteristics, however, would require (1) awareness that they exist, (2) an understanding of how to properly alter them, and (3) practice! The fact that Aaron has (according to he and you) made little progress of his scum game up to now and the fact that his last scum game was just one game ago, it's quite unlikely that his play here is the result of deliberate alterations.

So @Luca, now that I have explained this, do you still think Aaron is scum?

I don’t know for sure but based on my evaluation right now, these are my thoughts

Stop cherrypicking. Of course I’m gonna scum read you even more if you can’t see certain players that I deem as obvious town as town. What do you even mean????

I mean your point is nonsense. If you’re Town you can’t assume I’m scum based on the assumption that I’m pushing players who are Town. You’re pushing me and Flippy, and I strongly believe we are both Town, so I should use that as a reason you’re scum rather than misguided Town? Oops, more bravado.

I don't know about Somni, but for me it's not about someone scum reading a town read, it's about you in particular misreading Aaron. I'd feel the same way if it were Insomnia. I don't feel this way about dsjstr because I don't know his history with Aaron. But I do know that you two just played in a game with scum Aaron. And you have shown a particular interest in reading him correctly.

[Ame]

Regarding timing, it's probably from being V/LA and in general being in a different time zone to most players. I usually have to catch-up on loads of pages each day.

Regarding soft pushes, I haven't had reason to massively SR anyone until now. I don't see my push on Frost as being soft.

I think I'm finally able to articulate what is unnatural about your voting. I don't think it's a time zone thing. It's not about the time of day you voted, but how you've voted relative to your other votes and to your explanations.

Spoiler:

VOTE: ame

You naked voted here.

Early good feels from dsjstr and Flips, bad feels from Ame and Hectic.

Explained it was serious here.

Their post is so inoffensive and nice, it feels like they’re trying to get on people’s good sides.

But didn't bother to explain why until asked here. This doesn't read like someone trying to figure me out because you only explained your reasoning when prodded. Since you didn't initially provide anything for me to react to, you wouldn't have learned anything about me based on response.

VOTE: Clidd

I don’t like how he’s ignoring this game.

With Clidd here you provide minimal reasoning. Again, it's a vote that someone isn't really likely to react to.

So far, yes. Not sure I like Luca's clidd vote though.

I have reason to believe Clidd doesn’t like playing as scum, and he’s ignoring this game while being active on site.

I hate making reads on stuff like this, but it is what it is.

It wasn't until Aaron voiced suspicion, that you explained and actually gave a reason for Clidd to react.

This also ties into the soft pushes. It doesn't feel like you're trying to sort me. There's been a few times that you've asked me questions without ever following up. And for some reason, I'm still in your scum pool despite the realization that my "I'm mean" line wasn't serious. Btw, you read it as a joke at first, correct? At what point/what caused you to later interpret it as serious?

[Ame]

What I mean by minimal reasoning is that you failed to provide the reasoning you later gave in response to Aaron. The latter reasoning is much more likely to provoke a response than your initial soft vote.

You wanted to see how others would react to my post or your vote?

You stated that you initially interpreted it as a joke, but then read it as serious. What caused you to later think it was serious?

[Ame]

I don't understand:

1. You SR my opening
2. You felt better when I made my follow up post (which included the mean line)
3. Then you (incorrectly) realized that it wasn't a joke and SR me again
4. I then explained that it was a joke

When did part 3 come in?

[Ame]

Got it, thanks!

[Ame]

I know you aren't doing it consciously but this is just unnecessary banter that I've dealt with in the past. Wasn't trying to put it on you, not my intention, I was explaining why I'm not snapping at you, of course you wouldn't know. I'm just on really thin fucking ice and this is the reason I took a break, because of my toxicity so I'd appreciate if you just stopped trying to poke a creature that will wreak havoc. I can endure stuff but like don't push it too much either.

This + insomnia's tone in general is pretty townie

@Wimpy

so they're independent reads, gotcha, thanks

What about this is townie? He was quite argumentative with Wimpy in the previous game. If I were to read into this it would be scumSomni attempting to avoid the spotlight.

Ame's page 9 was pretty good actually but I'm not willing to slap a townread there just yet. Even scum who get heat early can obvtown to take the pressure off of them.

I don't get where I'm at for you. You find my posts townie, but they aren't AI? Am I still scum for you or just not town?

[Ame]

UNVOTE: Luca

@Karnage can you elaborate on your reads?

[Ame]

@Luca, when you get the chance, I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

[Ame]

@Luca, when you get the chance, I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

I think he has been doing the things you’ve mentioned there, perhaps apart from the overconfident reads, although his read on Insomnia could count as such.

I can deal with this post further if need be once I’m back from V/LA and on a computer.

I’m not sure where I said Frost has made little progress in his scum game? I said the opposite - he has made tremendous progress if you compare the lil Uzi game with his first scum game, for example.

Hm. I really thought you'd find this convincing. There's some moments in your play that I want to TR, but this read is so bizarre, I don't think I can let it go.

Looking through Aaron's ISO, I'm not seeing how his questions are passive. They show a clear train of thought. You're making it out like his read on you is reactionary, but he's been trying to sort you from the beginning.

[Ame]

I'd really like some content from Karnage before I decide where to place my vote.

Also @Hectic what do you make of this:

The fact Insomnia didn’t read my posts means he also didn’t read Frost’s, yet he’s obvtown?

Insomnia is making up his reads - it makes zero sense to have Frost as obvtown and me as scum for not considering Frost obvtown when he ignored all the relevant material regarding this.

Is that an actual thought you have? Lmfao

If you’re gonna push my top town read, especially when we have the same experience with them (Aaron), then why the fuck wouldn’t I scum read you for not seeing what I’m seeing?

He’s playing so differently than his scum game that there’s no world where this guy is scum

And you not seeing it of course is gonna make me scum read you more

Somni, you stated here that it's scummy for Luca not to see it, but you haven't looked into why he's scumreading him (the pages you skimmed)? Was Aarons early play enough to exclude a possible tell Luca picked up on those pages?

I HAVEN’T READ SO HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO KNOW WTF WAS GOING ON?

He reacted to MY pressure and that’s what I’m saying I was town reading, not him reacting to YOURS

You’re not even reading my posts

Aarons reaction to Luca's pressure is obviously an important factor though. If you're reading Aaron off of two different things, how can you be so sure that Luca's perception is wrong?

[Ame]

hehe I just realized why Hectic refers to Aaron as AaronFF

refuse to tr him based on meta.

To be clear, I'm not town reading Aaron off of meta. Contrasting his play to his scum game is just a way to make salient what is townie about him. I'm town reading him because he has been calm, consistent, and hasn't backed down under pressure. He's also been concerned with the health of the game (off the top of my head, he was concerned with the slow start, made an attempt to get discussion going even if it was at his expense, and has been trying to get the less active posters involved).

[Ame]

@insomnia why the lurk mode?

[Ame]

VOTE: Karnage

Read through a Wimpy scum game. He's a power wolfer that knows how to be town read. I refuse to believe he'd really treat me that badly off of a misunderstanding. I believe he was attempting to emulate his play from Mini 2115 where he tunneled Macabre for playing to a particular posting style. I think by having a similar tunnel here, he was attempting to be town read by the players in that game.

The Ame - Luca - Somni - Aaron debate has gotten stale.

[Ame]

I think I'm sticking with Karnage unless something changes in his play.

[Ame]

@Clidd join me. I intuit that you intuitively know you cleared Wimpy prematurely.

[Ame]

@dsjstr could use your vote as well

[Ame]

Ame, what’s your read on Insomnia?

Town. I get your perspective, but I don't think the laziness comes from scum. I think you both should take a step back and reevaluate.

[Ame]

He doesn't care how it looks. (Additionally there's other town tells like him rereading Aarons scum play)

[Ame]

I'll reconsider if Hectic thinks it's scummy. Otherwise I'm done with this debate circle.

[Ame]

Scum Equity (out of 200 points total)

Karnage 65
Luca 60
dsjstr 40
Flippy 25
Aaron 5
Insomnia 5
Clidd 0
Hectic 0

I prefer Karnage, but I'd vote Luca if it came down to it. Dsjstrs equity lowers if Karnage town, rises if Karnage scum. If Karnage is scum, then it's likely Wimpys RVS vote was fake spew.

[Ame]

Nah.

[Ame]

Somni your avatar is flipping adorable <3!

[Ame]

Ame, why do you have both clidd and I as 0 scum equity? You trust me but have no faith in my clidd metaread?

Also, somethings have changed about that metaread which makes clidd not as likely scum, for reasons I can't really expand on. Basically, I'm not scumreading him for the lessened analysis this game, but still am for the locktowning. I'll give Karnage a quick ISO.

I wasn't sure you yourself had faith in your meta read, as you mentioned it wasn't certain. But yeah, even so I'm not sure it would be enough for me to scum read him considering he admitted to trying something different this game and Luca has the opposite conclusion from his meta read (I do think Luca-Clidd is possible, but currently it ranks lower than other potential teams).

Regarding Wimpo: So I intially townread his tunnel on Ame, since it fit with something I've seen town!Wimpo do before. It wasn't for the same reason (attacking someone on V/LA) but because someone shaded him once for what he thought was a bad reason, and he tunnelled that person until replacing out. 130 is a pretty eh threat though. 141 feels exaggerated. Ame, what's this game which gave you the impression that Wimpo is powerwolfer or whatever? Also, my marathon game is starting so will resume this later

Micro 913.

Interesting quote:

Two successful strategies as scum.

1. Hard bus
2. Get locked in a 1v1 with a townie.

I usually end up death tunneling somebody every game as town so as scum it makes no sense to kill creature.

I suspect that #2 is what he was trying to do here.

[Ame]

Somni your avatar is flipping adorable <3!

No your avi is.! Love me some demon slayer

pocketed

[Ame]

INSOMNIA WHY ARE YOU LURKING

[Ame]

I read through your scum games last night and you do tend to lurk as scum. I also came across the post Luca mentioned where you stated that low activity is a solid scum tell for you. So how isn't it a potential tell?

You haven't really tried convincing anyone that Luca is scum, you've just been kind of sitting on it

[Ame]

How was my thought process on Wimpy not fakeable as scum??? I'd never make a move as scum without having the thought process to justify it. This feels either like TMI or seriously underestimating scum's ability to make up reasoning.
Do you agree with this?
What do you think about this?

[Ame]

So how isn't it a potential tell?

because i'm second to top poster, stop listening to scum and actually fact check properly.

this is nothing like my scum games and it can be proven if you actually took the time to meta me properly

my play as scum is I literally get lynched d1 for my posting volume, which is not what's going on here.

I spent at least an hour on your meta. I had the same thought before Luca posted. It's not about the post count it's about the engagement. Post count is not an indicator of engagement. You were lurking through the initial me vs Luca bit and disappeared again when called out for not reading. It's a huge red flag that you didn't take to time to actually read the posts of the person you were scum reading

[Ame]

I understand the points on Luca, I want you to address the points on you!

[Ame]

Insomnia, I'll vote Luca if you address these please?

How was my thought process on Wimpy not fakeable as scum??? I'd never make a move as scum without having the thought process to justify it. This feels either like TMI or seriously underestimating scum's ability to make up reasoning.
Do you agree with this?
What do you think about this?

So how isn't it a potential tell?

because i'm second to top poster, stop listening to scum and actually fact check properly.

this is nothing like my scum games and it can be proven if you actually took the time to meta me properly

my play as scum is I literally get lynched d1 for my posting volume, which is not what's going on here.

I spent at least an hour on your meta. I had the same thought before Luca posted. It's not about the post count it's about the engagement. Post count is not an indicator of engagement. You were lurking through the initial me vs Luca bit and disappeared again when called out for not reading. It's a huge red flag that you didn't take to time to actually read the posts of the person you were scum reading

[Ame]

He's hard town read flippy since the beginning. And Flippy made this:

Vote Luca and watch

[Ame]

Well, yeah, i'm not going to lie, i've been sapped of will power because of the recent posting which is honestly obvious, like you can tell. But it's not that I'm not engaged, I just am sapped of any wim when my points keep getting discredited and people don't notice. I have a hard time actually countering this as well, whenever i come back and push my scum read, i get discredited and he's always here, calling me obvscum and cherrypicking everything, even going as far as checking my meta without actually reading anything I post in a game at all, nor looking at my post count. When I talk level of engagement I literally mean post count. I can fake being engaged if i want to, but this is honestly a bad argument to even consider in the context of this game, because i am mentally tired of having to point out to what I perceive as obvious and i just get countered on semantics and trivial stuff.

and i have to deal with nobody listening to me and everyone suggesting i work with my scum read which is just dumb.

and i already posted about your second link thing with aaron's progression. he didn't react poorly to pressure, aaron had a progression on luca and was baffled by his asinine claim, which was the fact that he would've changed his game style radically within 1 game experience apart. which is just mind boggling, it's diametrically opposite, i have proven it's diametrically opposite. especially, aaron raised a good point about luca saying he would've gained experienced after a scum game in which he...slipped and died day one? what?

-What about my Wimpy progression was unfakeable?
-In the first link, you stated that you had not read Luca v Aaron. But you were scumreading Luca for misreading Aaron. How could you know that Luca's reasoning was bad if you didn't even read their diologue?
-The point Luca was making in the second link was about deflection not falling under pressure. Aaron reacted similarly in MN2115. It doesn't influence your perspective on Aaron?

[Ame]

Luca please let me talk to Somni! Somni please address my concerns so we can move on!

[Ame]

you guys are something else

[Ame]

Well, with the claim in mind

Karnage 70
dsjstr 50
Clidd 35
Insomnia 20
Hectic 15
Aaron 10
Luca 0
Flippy 0

I still don't think Insomnia is scum, Luca. Karnage is a good D1 lynch.

[Ame]

If Karnage Flips Town then nothing is gained as he’s done nothing. Insomnia is a much better lynch.

I don’t know how you can TR Insomnia after he lied about my Frost argument? First time you could excuse it as just lazy reading, but he not only maintained it after I corrected him but slyly changed the wording of his misrep to make it a bit more ambiguous.

He is scum, simple as.

I don't think there's anything to gain from a Somni town flip either.

I don't think he lied, I think it's a misunderstanding. I do see why you think he's scum, but I think you should make an attempt at reading it from a townSomni perspective. I agree with him that backed down and falling under pressure are similar enough concepts to be used interchangeably.

[Ame]

Your argument for why he was wrong wasn't valid though. You're focused on word choice where he was speaking of the intention behind the words. He misinterpreted your argument but based on the posts he quoted here, I think it's perfectly acceptable to have to have interpreted your argument as Aaron backing down/falling under pressure.

[Ame]

He didn't realize his reason was wrong. As I said, it was a perfectly valid interpretation. And since he thought you were scum, he didn't take your arguments against it seriously. He should have been more open-minded, yes, but that doesn't make him scum.

I don't mind having opposing wagons, but I'm sticking with Karnage.

[Ame]

Apologies for the inactivity, been stressed because of university and was not having a good mental health day yesterday. I'll be around later tonight.

No worries, feel better!

(And join me on Karnage when you come back online!)

[Ame]

You didn't prove him wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ame]

The lynch comes down to dsjstr it looks like.

[Ame]

What I mean is Hectic and Aaron are TR you so they vote Karnage. You and Karnage cross and dsjstr has the deciding vote.

[Ame]

I still don't get why we should lynch Karnage here.

I just don't believe Wimpy would have behaved that way toward me once he realized it was a misunderstanding. He's always speaking about not making things personal, but he continued to do so even after I immediately recanted my reasoning. He knows that he's town read for his tunneling and because there were 4 players from MN2115 (who all seem to be town btw), I believe he tried to replicate his tunnel from that game (on Macabre).

[Ame]

Hectic I'm thinking about Clidd

[Ame]

@Clidd, now that you know flippy is mason, shouldn't the game be solved for you as dsjstr and hectic?

[Ame]

Ok well vote Karnage then. You're voting the only person that doesn't help you figure out the game.

[Ame]

It is selfish of me, but I would like to be right about Insomnia and Karnage being towns, as I defined in my initial read.

VOTE: Insomnia

How is this selfish of you? You're voting someone to prove to us they're locktown?

Why is no one considering clidd here?

Current read

s>

Locktown:

Luca Blight, Insomnia, Wimpy.

Indicative town

: Aaron Frost, Ame.

Unsure:

Emperor flippyNips, Dsjstr, Hectic.

Entertaining the possibility of a Clidd+Luca team. Luca "scumreads" clidd early for not being active enough. Clidd locktowns him for it and Luca backs off because Clidd's playing the game which is town-indicative. Distances them early and gives them a reason to townread each other later. Tinfoil theory for now.

Clidd is more engaged but it looks like this game is not as simple as the last so I won't SR him for playing differently. Do you have a reason to SR him because I can't think of one. He did list his unsure as red which can be interpreted as PoE scum. But there are a lot of lock TR from him, and if clidd is town then I would feel good about his lock town reads. If he is scum then I could see him putting his buddy as lock town. I was going to place my vote on clidd so we could get that intel.

I wanted to do it to get conf town

You wanted to lynch Clidd so we could follow his reads if he flipped town?

[Ame]

Alright I'm back. I mostly skimmed a lot of the pages that were just back and forth arguing

UNVOTE:

I think I believe Luca's mason claim. The TMIing as town makes more sense now.

That leaves a pool of {Karnage, Hectic, dsj} that we're almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum in.

VOTE: Karnage

Why not Clidd?

[Ame]

i remember hectic having some bad early posts as well so i could vote there as well

I don't know what was bad about them

[Ame]

He's accurate enough to follow him blindly?

[Ame]

He's accurate enough to follow him blindly?

Serious question. Is he really that accurate? How much experience do you have with him?

[Ame]

No survivors

lol

I guess we can try insomnia

VOTE: Insomnia

L2

@PRETENTIOUS, Luca is voting Insomnia

post 878

[Ame]

Yea let's do it

Spoiler:

[Ame]

Why would he want to prevent his partner from hammering him?

[Ame]

luca thought it was someone off of the insom wagon & i can agree. as for narrowing it down i don't have anything rn. i should of done more work in nf but i didn't nothing i can do about that now

Did you think that because he hammered himself?

just about. if anyone is scum on that wagon its ame & i dont feel like they're scum for the mean time. i'd even go as far to say they're town

aww thanks

[Ame]

He hammered himself to prevent his partner from hammering him. This would probably support Luca's hypothesis about the second scum being out of the wagon. Or, he thought he couldn't afford more time at that moment, as something might come up.

I think it's more likely he hammered himself because it was nearing the end of the day and he knew he wasn't escaping a lynch

Why would he prefer his lynch to possibly not being lynched?

[Ame]

no idc

[Ame]

It's not the preferred situation for him, but there was about 12 hours left on the deadline when he was put at L-1. It would've been nearly impossible for him to turn the target on someone else, especially after the mason claims.

But what's the advantage of hammering?

[Ame]

Clidd > Hectic > Aaron

I think it's more likely his partner was already on his wagon. Otherwise, why not give his partner a chance to come around and hammer. If his partner is Aaron or Hectic they just look bad. It doesn't make sense to leave them in that position.

[Ame]

Leaning Hectic on second thought

[Ame]

No day chat @Clidd

[Ame]

@Hectic

211 is really towny though. Hard for scum to fabricate a flowing thought process like that.

What about it is hard to fabricate? I don't usually make any move as scum without having reasoning behind it, do you?

Okay, what caused the shift on your clidd-read, Flippo? Also, get on him over Ame if you agree. Every time I've asked Ame to explain her thought process revolving around something she's done/flipped on, she's provided something that feels legitimate.

well when i talked about clidd before it was strictly #250 every other post gives me off vibess. they feel like hes trying to say what people would tr him for. & him "locktowning" luca seems like a pocketing attempt

did she ever explain the insom tr then vote then almost immediate vote switch to me?

if so i'll give it a rest for now

Yeah, in 422. I don't think it warrants going from "insomnia is my town axiom" to voting him but at least there's an explanation.

Why was there being an explanation enough for you, if it didn't warrant the transition?

[Ame]

@dsjstr

It could be clidd/Insomnnia Hectic/Insomnia, I think we just have to lynch Insomnia

(1) Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that it was Insomnia here? Why was Karnage and Aaron out of the running for you? You had previously stated suspicions on Aaron.
(2) Why didn't you vote Insomnia?
(3) Why would Luca not dying warrant neighbors claiming?
(4) Why do

you

think Somni self-hammered?

[Ame]

@Aaron

I think we should rush it cause this game will become pretty hard to read if one of us isn’t resolved quickly.

I want other people to weigh in on this

Why did you want other people to comment on this?

Aaron is trending down for seemingly not comprehending my sarcasm, which is just weird.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well over text, I don't get why that's AI.

It reveals to me that you weren't actually paying much attention to my posts. Can you walk me through your thought process when reading them? I'm particularly interested what you thought I meant when I was speaking of analyzing voice patterns.

nippleflips

461 is pretty jarring with the knowledge that he replaced into a slot that insomnia was already scumreading in the referenced game.

What about this is jarring? This is suspicious to me because neither your or Insomnia's logic makes sense here.

I don't get your point about my Ame read. I did reconsider it back when I said that Ame's page 9 was good and while her town equity was rising I'm also well aware scum would do everything in that situation to get themselves townread (or at least try to).

I don't get this either. If I were scum, why wouldn't I just play "obvtown" from the beginning?

\The close-mindedness of Insomnia’s Luca/Flips push is so lazy and terrible that he’s probably scum.

This is the kind of statement that I almost never expect to come from town!Luca nor was insomnia pushing a Luca/flippynips team. He said it was a TMI read which implies that you both can't be scum together.

Why isn't this something you exected from town!Luca? Please elaborate thoroughly.

It's not the preferred situation for him, but there was about 12 hours left on the deadline when he was put at L-1. It would've been nearly impossible for him to turn the target on someone else, especially after the mason claims.

But what's the advantage of hammering?

That's what I'm trying to figure out

You stated why you believed he hammered here:

He hammered himself to prevent his partner from hammering him. This would probably support Luca's hypothesis about the second scum being out of the wagon. Or, he thought he couldn't afford more time at that moment, as something might come up.

I think it's more likely he hammered himself because it was nearing the end of the day and he knew he wasn't escaping a lynch

Which implies that you have some reason behind why you think it's the case? What is that reason? What is the advantage of ending the day?

[Ame]

@dsjstr

It could be clidd/Insomnnia Hectic/Insomnia, I think we just have to lynch Insomnia

(1) Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that it was Insomnia here? Why was Karnage and Aaron out of the running for you? You had previously stated suspicions on Aaron.
(2) Why didn't you vote Insomnia?
(3) Why would Luca not dying warrant neighbors claiming?
(4) Why do

you

think Somni self-hammered?

1. I put Hectic because of his voting pattern, at the time it made sense to have clidd as a partner don't remember exactly what I was thinking.

2. I was willing to place a vote on clidd at the time

3. Then it would be 4-3 conftown and an unavoidable town win.

4. Hide the other scum in the pack of people off the lynch or its Clidd

1a. What do you mean by his voting pattern?
1b. Are you saying you don't remember your reasoning for thinking Clidd was Insomnia's partner? You made it pretty clear over multiple posts.
1c. You didn't answer the question: you stated that it made sense to lynch insomnia because the team could be insomnia/clidd or insomnia/Hectic. Why couldn't the team be Clidd/Karnage, Clidd/Aaron, Hectic/Karnage, Hectic/Aaron, or Karnage/Hectic?

2a. Why didn't you place a vote on Clidd?
2b. The wagons had come down to Insomnia and Karnage. You thought it made sense to lynch Insomnia. What would have been the purpose of voting Clidd here?

3a. You stated something along the lines of "should we out if Luca doesn't die." Why would Luca being NKed or not be relevant as to whether or not neighbors claimed?
3b. How could there be 4 conftown if neighbors are unconfirmed to each other?

[Ame]

HEY YOU SCUMMER YOU BEST TELL US WHAT WE WANT TO KNOW OR WELL DO BAD THINGS TO YOU, REEEAL BAAAD

[Ame]

ANSWER MY QUESTIONS YOU

beautiful

SCUMBAG

please

[Ame]

VOTE: dsjstr

LOOKIE HERE PAL, YA THINK IM PLAYING GAMES WITH YOU? YA KNOW WHAT THEY DO TO BLANK AVATAR NON VOWEL USIN GUYS LIKE YOU IN PRISON? LETS JUST SAY...UH... YOU DONT WANNA KNOW

[Ame]

Depending on how he answers one of my questions, I may be able to confirm town dsjstr

[Ame]

@Aaron what do you make of the way Somni treated you this game? What should we conclude from it?

[Ame]

I think insomnia probably hammered to avoid his partner giving away any more info, due to the lack of day chat, and maybe the partner trying to defend a lost cause which would make them look really bad today.
I think it actually points towards a couple of people more than others but I might be reading too much into it.

Who are the couple of people it points towards? I think it points towards you since you made a push to swing the wagon back to Karnage after I changed votes.

[Ame]

Yawn?

These aren't the rants I was promised

[Ame]

I've read a game with Bingle before, I like him!

Hectic I changed my mind on Karnage/Wimpy.

[Ame]

dsj are you ignoring me :[?

[Ame]

For you to answer these:

@dsjstr

It could be clidd/Insomnnia Hectic/Insomnia, I think we just have to lynch Insomnia

(1) Can you explain how you came to the conclusion that it was Insomnia here? Why was Karnage and Aaron out of the running for you? You had previously stated suspicions on Aaron.
(2) Why didn't you vote Insomnia?
(3) Why would Luca not dying warrant neighbors claiming?
(4) Why do

you

think Somni self-hammered?

1. I put Hectic because of his voting pattern, at the time it made sense to have clidd as a partner don't remember exactly what I was thinking.

2. I was willing to place a vote on clidd at the time

3. Then it would be 4-3 conftown and an unavoidable town win.

4. Hide the other scum in the pack of people off the lynch or its Clidd

1a. What do you mean by his voting pattern?
1b. Are you saying you don't remember your reasoning for thinking Clidd was Insomnia's partner? You made it pretty clear over multiple posts.
1c. You didn't answer the question: you stated that it made sense to lynch insomnia because the team could be insomnia/clidd or insomnia/Hectic. Why couldn't the team be Clidd/Karnage, Clidd/Aaron, Hectic/Karnage, Hectic/Aaron, or Karnage/Hectic?

2a. Why didn't you place a vote on Clidd?
2b. The wagons had come down to Insomnia and Karnage. You thought it made sense to lynch Insomnia. What would have been the purpose of voting Clidd here?

3a. You stated something along the lines of "should we out if Luca doesn't die." Why would Luca being NKed or not be relevant as to whether or not neighbors claimed?
3b. How could there be 4 conftown if neighbors are unconfirmed to each other?

[Ame]

If neighbors claimed, how would it make 3-4 confirmed town if neighbors aren't n confirmed to each other?

[Ame]

Also please address each question...

You not being on my list doesn't exclude you from being considered?

[Ame]

lel

[Ame]

a distortion of lol

[Ame]

Clidd, how would you say "can I have your actual reads" in Spanish? I'm wondering if 'actual' means something different in Spanish because it's a strange sentence in English.

[Ame]

Where did you feel Insomnia showed pockety behavior toward you?

[Ame]

Dsjstr and I are neighbors.

The way you were playing like we were confirmed made me think you were feigning ignorance about the neighbor role.

But I just searched through all your games and it does look like you've only ever played with town friendly neighbor.

Out of curiosity, what did you think was the difference between neighbors and mason? Also, you really thought there would be 4 cleared town in a 9 player game???

[Ame]

You felt the teams were Insomnia/Clidd or Insomnia/Hectic.
You felt Insomnia was caught red-handed.

And you didn't vote him because you felt it would look opportunistic? Huh? If he was scum to you why would that matter...

[Ame]

Lynch dsjstr. Too many inconsistencies.

[Ame]

I felt insomnia had shown pockety behavior towards me

Where did you feel Insomnia showed pockety behavior toward you?

Yea I just searched Somni's posts and he never mentioned you once

Spoiler:

[Ame]

Why didn't you say anything to me when we were in private? Why wait to put me on blast in front of everyone? If I am town does that mean you are mafia?

You never responded to me in private and if I waited until tonight, you could kill me before I had a chance to express my concerns to town.

And no we could very much both be town. But the idea that we would be confirmed town to each other is absurd when there are already masons. What did you think was the difference between masons and neighbors?

[Ame]

It could be clidd/Insomnnia Hectic/Insomnia, I think we just have to lynch Insomnia

This read came out of no where. No one else thought Luca's claim meant scum somni was caught.

You jumped the gun on bussing him and the failed to vote him when it looked like there was still a chance I'd push Karnage lynch thru

[Ame]

why are you making this unnecessarily difficult: what did you think was the difference between masons and neighbors?

[Ame]

I felt insomnia had shown pockety behavior towards me

Where did you feel Insomnia showed pockety behavior toward you?

Yea I just searched Somni's posts and he never mentioned you once

i can't see voting anyone else if you can't explain this

[Ame]

We have a neighborhood that we can chat in during the night.

[Ame]

Ame, from what you talked about in this private chat, did you manage to conclude anything about Dsj's behavior ?

How has Doro interacted with you in the neighbourhood, Ame? Have you felt like he's tried to pocket you?

I'd extend the same question to Doro (Do you think Ame was trying to pocket you in there?).

He only asked me my thoughts on Clidd and the fact that no one found him (dsj) suspicious. He also asked me if we should claim if Luca died. I don't see the reasoning behind this and the way he phrased it makes me feel he only asked me it to make it seem like he didn't know if Luca was for sure going to die

[Ame]

what did you think was the difference between neighbors and masons?

[Ame]

what did you think was the difference between neighbors and masons?

[Ame]

Where do you feel Insomnia tried to pocket you?

[Ame]

Yeesh that getting an answer from ya is like pulling teeth

that's all I wanted to know, thank you!

[Ame]

I think Karnage and Aaron are both town. Aaron is obvtown and I'll take that to the grave. I still think it's between Clidd and Hectic. I think Hectic is the most rational choice for today.

VOTE: Hectic

[Ame]

Yea Hectic > Clidd should bring victory

let's do it

[Ame]

I'm never lynching Aaron here. Ever.

Vote Hectic with me.

[Ame]

Completely disappeared. He had an explanation for the somni pocket attempt and his misunderstanding of neighbors seems genuine

[Ame]

Hectic is scum, let's end this.

[Ame]

@Clidd your PoE is incorrect. Sheep me.
@Hectic you tried to swing the lynch away from Somni at the last moment

[Ame]

dsj wasn't online to vote neither was Karnage. If you could have convinced me to switch back to Karnage Somni would have been saved

[Ame]

Are you willing to lose the game if Hectic flip green and you lynch me tomorrow ?

No I wouldn't quick lynch you. I'd fully reevaluate.

[Ame]

Lul, I townread him and was wrong so what can you do. You think I'd have been obvious about it as that?

you couldn't have anticipated my sudden switch to Somni. I think you reacted before you had time to think it over

[Ame]

@clidd @dsj sheep me for win let's goooooo

[Ame]

@Clidd this line of posts heavily indicates town Aaron:

No survivors

lol

I guess we can try insomnia

VOTE: Insomnia

L2

@PRETENTIOUS, Luca is voting Insomnia

post 878

Alright I'm back. I mostly skimmed a lot of the pages that were just back and forth arguing

UNVOTE:

I think I believe Luca's mason claim. The TMIing as town makes more sense now.

That leaves a pool of {Karnage, Hectic, dsj} that we're almost guaranteed to hit at least one scum in.

VOTE: Karnage

Why not Clidd?

Oh I forgot about clidd, he can be in there too.

How do you read his locktowning Luca with the mason claim in mind?

If you’re town you ruin our chances to win. People who scum read people on v/la are lazy and unwilling to scum hunt. Your reads should never be trusted

@everyone please let’s lynch AME before this game gets out of control.

If he thought it was a town reaction he’d have immediately adjusted his read on me. So he’s a liar or a hypocrite.

Omgus is a nai reaction.

I think we should rush it cause this game will become pretty hard to read if one of us isn’t resolved quickly.

All of these are way over the top. I thought he was genuinely pissed but that's some prolonged anger over time.

I'm at a problem where I have no idea how to read Wimpy's deathtunnel of Ame. Like there's a part of me that thinks that that kind of behavior almost never comes from scum, but I think the way he's going about it is also objectively anti-town.

Then go ahead and lynch me today because it will continue. I will not vote anyone else this game until she is gone.

Even after a lot of us tried to get him to stop tunnelling, he wasn't having it any of it, and shot down every argument before this. Either ridiculously stubborn town or scum who won't back down because hard tunnelling is his strat lol.

you know what. That's not fair to anyone. sorry.

The post before the replace out. Unsure how to view it. Wimpo's repped out of literally every game I've played with him, and I think the remorse here he could be faked if he's scum and wants to leave his slot in a better position. NAI I think.

VOTE: Karnage
Prefer this to Somni.

Karnage is also lurking, and that's bad sign close to deadline.

I still think insomnia is town honestly. I don't think scum gets that deathtunneled on a slot he knows to be town. I have my reservations about whether the mason claim could be faked, but that feels like a big risk to take even in a closed setup.

Karnage feels like a policy lynch, we'd get next to no info even if it flipped scum but if we need to compromise somewhere then I'll compromise there.

I'll need to review Hectic too because he's a big question mark for me. I feel like I can read him decently well most of the time but I don't have a solid read on him here.

If both masons live to see lylo then I'll be really concerned about the claim but for now there's no reason not to believe it

My switch onto Somni ensured his doom, but Aaron was posting as normal completely ignorant of what Somni was going to flip. This is in contrast to Hectic who had been paying close attention to the wagon, positioning himself for a Karnage vote all day, and made a case to try and get me to switch back to Karanage. Aaron was just posting his thoughts nonchalantly with no motivation to try and convince anyone.

[Ame]

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

lol it's called scumhinting

If I wanted dsj lynched I would have kept on him also lol it would be completely unnecessary me putting myself out there like this when I've been town read all day. literally all id have to do is wait things out.

Karnages case is bad as Luca was voting Karanage at the time that I called Somni out and only switched back to Somni because of it

[Ame]

dsj wasn't online to vote neither was Karnage. If you could have convinced me to switch back to Karnage

Somni would have been saved

this is a fucking scum claim lol

@ame, why use "saved" here?

Hectic was trying to save Somni with that last minute case on you. He thought he could convince me to switch back to you. And had I did, either you would have been lynched or it would have been a NL (probably not though as Luca and flippy would switch over as well to avoid it)

[Ame]

Keep trying to appeal to dsj Hectic

I wanted him to answer my questions cause there were so many discrepancies. he finally did and I'm happy with them