Newbie 1987 | Game Over

[clidd]

Ok, give me some hours.

[clidd]

I unconsciously confirmed the game, and forgot that it existed. At least, until the prod notifies me. That said, I would like to share some initial reads and impressions I had from these first pages, with individual emphasis on each player:

ObviousScum

>

Lock-town

*BoP

Spoiler:

Micro 916

>

Town

Hi I'll be your Town CPR Goon, who wants some of my sweet deadly loving tonight?

Mini Normal 2115

>

Town

S

U

P

C

U

N

T

S

I

'

M

T

H

E

M A F I A G O O N

A

N

D

I

'

M

H

E

R

E

T

O

T

R

O

L

L

T

H

E

F

U

C

K

O

U

T

O

F

T

H

I

S

G

A

M

E

Micro 914

>

Town

Hello. Thankfully in this game I can claim my true role, which is

m a f i a g o o n

As I consult with my scumbuddy on who is the best mislynch, I think it is safe to say that no lynch is always a scummy wagon and therefore it has my full support.

VOTE: no lynch

Newbie 1987

>

Actual

S

U

P

C

H

U

M

PS

I

'

M

T

H

E

S E M I E X P E R I E N C E D P L A Y E R

A

N

D

I

'

M

H

E

R

E

T

O

HELP

T

H

E

F

U

C

K

O

U

T

O

F

T

H

I

S

G

A

M

E

I made a comparison with three other games, which he was

town

. I noticed that his pattern consists of a game start characterized by an expressive claim or announcement, marked by the use of wifom as a tool of persuasion to, at the same time that he is attracting attention, repelling suspicions due to the strong image of exalted self-confidence. Posts 18, 31, 46 show concern to help inexperienced players, being in coherence with the

SE

position established in post 8. Assimilation to past experiences in posts 45, 55, 56 and 85 demonstrate transparency in relation to the opinions formed, indicating progressive reasoning in order to develop the game forward, strengthened by the suggestion in post 97. In general, there is no bias in his lines, and his actions are motivated to progress in the team-game proactively. This is enough to consider him as

lock-town

, under the condition of

BoP

depending on how the first day and second day occur. If he is not killed within two days, however, I will regard his presence in the game as

suspicious

, unless there is a

PR

that has rescue (

Doctor

) helping him.

JacksonVirgo

>

Town Indicative

Spoiler:

Newbie 1963

>

Town

Glad to see my predecessor was extremely active.
Here comes a slap vote VOTE: Uncrowned

Newbie 1968

>

Town

Howdy everybody, I am salty
/vote Uncrowned

Newbie 1982

>

Town

Howdy I just got off a 10 hour shift at work, fun.

RVs questions:
What's the best smash Bros game?

Which ice cream flavor is your favorite and what's so good about it?

Are you happy with the role you randomed?

What piece of old technology do you think should be brought back?

Buses or trains?

This is a typical scum thing but sure.
I've never played a Smash Bros game, I've been meaning to just didn't have the money before.
Cookies and cream, because I like cookies and I like ice-cream.|
I was hoping for a different one but this is aight (nice role-fishing tho)
Hmmm, not sure.
Trains because here using the Translink service we don't need to talk to people (bus driver) which is always a plus.

Newbie 1976

>

Scum

Howdy, posting just to have this in my posts. It's 10:30pm and I want sleep.

Newbie 1974

>

Scum

Howdy everyone, gonna catch up now

Newbie 1987

>

Actual

Lock town

I made a comparison with 5 past games, 3 as

town

and 2 as

scum

. Chronologically, I can see that from the

1968

game, the expression

'' howdy ''

was created, which was repeated in the

1982

game, in an attempt to establish a meta favorable to their read as town. However, later, it was also applied in bad faith in both

1974

and

1976

games (

scums

), mischaracterizing the expression's link with their alignment, and making it a null standard. While reading both scum games, especially

1974

(which has more content), I noticed that their behavior is much more centered and neutral, with semi-premeditated lines and placements, as they maintain their posture and education. Something that is opposite to the extroverted and more incisive stance seen in the three games as

town

, where the "fear" is much less, with bolder premises and sporadically genuine acts. In this game, precisely in the posts post 68 and 79, I notice, respectively, a very premature consideration, without the development of a justification (guts), and a spontaneously early reaction, with no previous communication channel. Both examples seem to agree with their

town

pattern, as well as the suggestively emotional error (rush / lack of attention) in the transition between posts 112 and 113, and in the

SR

statement in post 119, which was done without structuring of a table of previous reads (something I noted in their

scum

pattern).

Spoiler:

{ FF } - townread
{ Gamma, Syugar } - townlean
{ Angel, Karnage } - null for now
{ Chumley } - scumlean
{ Cheeky, Ryth } - scumread

This one (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81576 ,

post 256

)

Ceejayvinoya

>

Null

[/i]

Spoiler:

Newbie 1957

>

Town

Gotcha

Micro 889

>

Town

... I think I'm the backup joke

Newbie 1952

>

Town

Hi.

UNVOTE: watson

Will start reading a little later.

Mini 2074

>

Town

Hi I'm around

VOTE: Chara

Her posts are dull.

Micro 875

>

Town

Quack

VOTE: duck

I had a hard time finding any

scum

games from him, given the favorable statistical chance for the

green

line-up. Therefore, I drew a comparison with 5 games of his past games (

town

). His pattern is based on a structure of simple intuitive phrases and vague actions, with more than one interpretation. I noticed that he is usually lynched a lot in games as

town

, due to the lynch policy. The style is identical to what he is following in this game (as in any game, regardless of alignment). It is strongly probable that, if he is not eliminated by lynch, he will last until the end of the game, precisely because he is not an expressive vocal antagonist, therefore, he is not a threat to the

scum

side. Particularly, I am indifferent to his position now, considering the lack of accuracy in my read about players who share that kind of trait.

OldMapleNostalgia

>

Scum Indicative

Spoiler:

First is the worst... Second is also the worst >:(
My brother is in Phi Kappa Phi...
VOTE: Phi Kappa Phi

Much better

This is your reaction after getting scum-read? No "why?" or any defense?

No past content. His entry into the game was strange, I don't know exactly how to classify who he was referring to, or if it was a metaphor. The following post does not seem to be a genuine engagement, considering the neutrality in just citing the act, but not trying to imply any more. I believe that a more questioning posture would show the real disagreement with the reaction mentioned. More neutrality in post 74, hesitate to engage effectively.

GeneralWu

>

Town Indicative

Spoiler:

Yo guys i'm first here

No past content. Normal entry, suggestive excitement (in a good way).

I see we have a few newly-registered players in this game.

What is everyone's prior experience in playing mafia (forum mafia or otherwise)?
Do you prefer playing as town or scum?

This is my 3rd game of forum mafia. I have also previously played browser-based mafia (epicmafia) and enjoy hidden identity board games
I prefer to play as town. I enjoy solving/deducing who is who in the zoo. I find being mafia can be stressful.

I've played like 12 games on mafiauniverse and artofproblemsolving.com and I have a 100% win rate as mafia :O

Hum. I appreciate the interaction, although I don't have an information base to judge the extent of what '' wifom '' represents to him. Even so, in a newbie scenario, many would avoid making a comment that reflects their real alignment. In a way, he felt comfortable saying that. Peaceful mindset = tranquility = green alignment? I'll check this out later.

Not sure if it's shyness or something, but it weirds me out that a lot of people haven't even voted yet

It weirds me out that you had voted for somebody who hasn't even posted yet

Yeah, voting for people that haven't even showed up feels wrong. I don't really know who to vote for yet, but those asking for people to cast votes aren't giving me good vibes, and two of them have votes on the same person.

I agree with these
There's no point in forcing everyone to cast a vote, especially this early in the game.
Also it's especially not good to vote for people who probably haven't even looked at the thread yet
It's much better to wait till they actually post something before voting them

This comment moves away from the generic sphere of neutrality, considering the development that is applied here during the reasoning process.

This feels like a contradiction. You are saying pushing for people to vote is a bad idea.
JV votes PKP and we get a very non-chalant response from PKP at being voted. This prompts you to scumread/at least question PKP's response.

So basically JVs vote has stimulated discussion and a potential scum read on PKP and yet you are saying pushing others to bote is bad?

Votes are good because they stimulate discussion and force players to take a stance, rather than sit on the fence, which favours scum, as scum can then just come up with a fake 'scum read' late in the day to lynch a townie.

Im on board the GW lynch train.
Jump aboard people, plenty of room on the wagon.
Choo choo

I wasn't scumreading PKP; I just thought it was weird how he says "much better" when he got scumread.

Also voting isn't bad, but when there's not a lot of reasons to vote for someone, I don't think people should be pushed to vote. Also, voting for someone who hasn't showed up yet isn't a good idea. I especially don't think it's good to put that person at L-1 this early in the game.

In addition, people can still discuss and take a stance without casting a vote till later.

He reinforced the idea and maintained the initial instance. This shows persistence in his own opinion, so he unconsciously believes what he is saying. It is difficult for a newbie liar to emulate this.

Phi Kappa Phi

>

Scum Indicative

Spoiler:

First is the worst... Second is also the worst >:(
My brother is in Phi Kappa Phi...
VOTE: Phi Kappa Phi

sensing some baggage here

No past content. Normal entry.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Sorry buddy, I googled our astrological compatibility and it's not gonna work between us

Hum, ok. Subjective.

I see we have a few newly-registered players in this game.

What is everyone's prior experience in playing mafia (forum mafia or otherwise)?
Do you prefer playing as town or scum?

This is my 3rd game of forum mafia. I have also previously played browser-based mafia (epicmafia) and enjoy hidden identity board games
I prefer to play as town. I enjoy solving/deducing who is who in the zoo. I find being mafia can be stressful.

I've played a few games years ago and lurked here for a while before joining

My nerves get to me a little more when I play scum, so I'm with you there

This comment seemed superficial due to the lack of expression in the development of the memory. If, when he plays scum, in theory, refers to a different emotional charge, it would be expected a better development of that.

Not sure if it's shyness or something, but it weirds me out that a lot of people haven't even voted yet

Much better

Naturally, people cast their votes when they want to press a point, or are convinced that an individual is scum. The way it was encouraged here discredits those who are still thinking about how to distribute the vote.

I'm inclined to townread Jackson because of the speed of their reaction to what I said. While it's not something an experienced player couldn't do, I remember being a little taken aback by posting something and instantaneously seeing "I don't like this and I scumread you for it". I'd kind of expect for a scum player to have to pause for a second and consider whether or not to go into attack mode, so the quickness of their callout makes me think their emotional reaction to my post was genuine

It felt like an attempt to be buddy here. This would be better justified if he has a meta around the actions of the person he is quoting.

Much better

This is your reaction after getting scum-read? No "why?" or any defense?

They explained why, and I don't think I did anything I particularly need to defend. It's more of a "I don't like the vibe of your post" read anyway so there's not much to argue about.

If you're confused by my "Much better" reaction, I made that initial post that Jackson called out because I was bored and hoping the game would transition past this sluggish beginning phase. And it seemed to be on its way to doing that as of Jackson's vote and allegation

Ignoring possible SRs is not interesting if you are town. It would be different, of course, if he prioritized scumhunting and ignored who is seeing him as scum, but basically, he conformed to the accusation.

Maduisha

>

Scum Indicative

Spoiler:

VOTE: Maduisha (who shall be named Mad for short, going forward, barring strenuous objection)

Because Ma stands for Mafia.

And you thought that you could sneakily hide your alignment in your username...

A sheep in wolf's clothing if I ever saw one.

Hey, it's the name of a fruit where I come from. But I agree that people that name themselves after fruit are suspicious, can't blame you.

Also, I've been reading the posts about OS, and I fail to understand what's the importance of knowing that someone has an alt accounts... I'm sorry, I'm new to this.

No past content. It was not a good reaction to the vote, why would she apologize in the end ?

Ah, my only experience with mafia is forum mafia with friends many years ago... I only played three games and I don't really remember much. My group of friends liked not lynching during the first day, but I am aware that's not optimal and not what's done over here from what I've read. I haven't played enough to have a clear preference of alignment, but for now I think town is what I like best.

Also, tomatoes are tasty.

The use of "I think" in this context was strange. This "thinking" seems a lot about something she likes, but it didn't happen. The random comment at the end seems more to relieve tension than a joke.

Yeah, voting for people that haven't even showed up feels wrong. I don't really know who to vote for yet, but those asking for people to cast votes aren't giving me good vibes, and two of them have votes on the same person.

She only pointed this out after other people's concerns about the votes were expressed. It was not genuine.

72offsuit

>

Town Indicative

Spoiler:

Newbie 1977

>

Town

Hi all,

I've played a few mafia games online in short form on another website and enjoy playing social deduction board games, such as secret hitler, the resistance, bang! , but oddly never werewolf.

Vote: Yodavader

- anyoneone with vader in their name must be evil.

Happy New Year everyone!

Newbie 1984

>

Town

Hi all,

This is my 2nd game of forum mafia. My first game was with dsjstr (DSJ).

Everyone knows that pikachu does NOT wear a hat. A sheep in wolf's clothing if I ever saw one.

VOTE: VOTE: vote: Detective Pikachu (who I shall dub 'DP' henceforth)

Newbie 1987

>

Actual

VOTE: Maduisha (who shall be named Mad for short, going forward, barring strenuous objection)

Because Ma stands for Mafia.

And you thought that you could sneakily hide your alignment in your username...

A sheep in wolf's clothing if I ever saw one.

The pattern is basically the same, but something seems strange. Interestingly, the first game has a

centralized vote

, the second is at

the end

and the third, which is in our game, the vote is at the

beginning

of the post. I am not sure how to interpret this message, considering that it is only observed if the three games are compared. Unfortunately, I don't have a

scum

game of him to make the comparison, just the two

town

games. When analyzing these games tentatively, I noticed that the experience of this player is illusory to be measured if we consider only the date of entry in the forum. There is something else, which is characterized by the charisma with which he structures his sentences and shapes his line of reasoning. The questioning is typical and compatible with posts 15, 19, 92 and 95 (as examples). However, his lack of past scum content, ignites a temporary '' alert '' for his next actions. I don't intend to put

BoP

on him, but I believe that he, eventually, should also be killed within 2 or 3 days. If that doesn't happen (and if I'm still in the game), the same suspect condition that I suggested in the case of

O.S

, will apply to him.

I see we have a few newly-registered players in this game.

What is everyone's prior experience in playing mafia (forum mafia or otherwise)?
Do you prefer playing as town or scum?

This is my 3rd game of forum mafia. I have also previously played browser-based mafia (epicmafia) and enjoy hidden identity board games
I prefer to play as town. I enjoy solving/deducing who is who in the zoo. I find being mafia can be stressful.

Now, answering this: I have more experience with face-to-face games, without the aid of a virtual platform. Evidently, as it is difficult to have to physically move to the locations of the games, I conditioned myself to play on some sites, such as epicmafia and this one now. I have been through Mindnight (steam) too. Particularly, I prefer real games, where I can see the players' faces. It is easier to detect lies, bluffs, among other reactions (in addition to being significantly more dynamic). I appreciate both alignments, but I try more expressively as town considering that deductive work ends up being more challenging.

[clidd]

That's it. I will interact tomorrow, good night.

[clidd]

Im back.

[clidd]

Clidd, can you summarize what you see from OS and 72 that you don't think they'd be doing as scum? I read the post but I'm still confused why you townread them exactly

The right question would be:

'' why wouldn't I have a TR on them ? ''

Apparently,

O.S

is following his

towny

pattern and seems to be engaged with the game. The vote he suggested on me had a pressure purpose, which makes sense considering that I've been idle most of the day.

72offsuit

follows a similar line, although I can't sketch what

scum!72offsuit

would do differently in this scenario. In any case, I'm considering them more likely to be

town

based on the meta, something that is not applicable to other players due to the lack of material (past games).

[clidd]

VOTE: clidd

Can you explain that ? if you are agreeing with the

O.S

vote here, why wouldn’t you have a

TR

on him ? you would agree even if he was

scum

?

[clidd]

As for clidd finding me scummy because "my concern wasn't genuine"... I feel like people post more when I'm asleep. Because timezones are a thing, finding yourself reading opinions that match yours and have already been posted is not that weird...

Explain why you ''match'' with these opinions.

[clidd]

Lurkers are generally town tbf, scum would try to post to look Townie and town don't care as much if that makes sense. I think after D1 it'll be more active

This concept is wrong. Depending on the player and the current game state, lurkers can be interpreted as indicative

scum

. Particularly, I had an experience with this type of player in the game

'' Micro 918 ''

(

Doctor Drew

).

Micro 918:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=81962

[clidd]

It wasn't. Why do you think we shouldn't vote people who didn't post ? How do you think we should proceed if a player returns, posts 2 lines and '' disappears '' again? would it be justifiable to vote on him to force his return or be lynched ?

VOTE: Maduisha

[clidd]

As I said before, I believe lurkers aren't inherently scummy during the first day. And in your case, I thought it was a matter of real life constraints, since the game master was speaking about grabbing a substitute for you. Hence wanting to wait to see if you appeared, instead of trying to lynch someone that hadn't posted yet, for no other reasons. Inactivity is a good indicator of how scummy someone is, if you're trying not to get noticed by others, but in this case nobody thought of that because of it being the first day and what I already said. If later on, someone were to try to post small messages with no real substance and try to disappear for as long as they could, I'd agree with wanting to pressure them or vote them, but I was talking about the game state as of right now.

Ok, you believe it would be more "fair", in theory, to wait for me to return before voting. I understand that. Now, what do you think of the scenario I come back to and see that several people are voting on me? wouldn't it be interesting, if i were scum, to see how i would react to the pressure ?

[clidd]

Didn't you just say that pushing lurkers to contribute is scummy? Because bringing up that idea so early in the game sounds to me like an attempt to... push lurkers to contribute. Ah, well. I have nothing against lynching lurkers when the game moves a bit and there's more incentive to contribute (so, when there's actual information to work with, but people still choose not to post). Right now, I don't feel like lurkers are inherently scummy, because day 1 has been pretty clueless as to which direction to take, aside from gut feelings, and now I'm going to get to mine:

If I were forced to vote, I'd vote OS or PKP, because the clidd vote bandwagon was so weird, and because I think OS has only posted meme-y stuff, which is okay because it's the first day, but all of his posts are still of that nature and I'd like to see him talk a bit more. Although, a part of me thinks scum would rather get talkative townies lynched rather than lurkers, because that would increase their chances of winning, so I'm not exactly sure if my read of people is rather shitty. For now, I'll still abstain from voting, because I'd like to see more interaction.

Do you really think that if both were scum, they would vote together at the same time? wouldn't that be suspicious? if you abstain from voting and expect more interaction, why only others who have to interact and you don't have to ?

[clidd]

As I said before, I believe lurkers aren't inherently scummy during the first day. And in your case, I thought it was a matter of real life constraints, since the game master was speaking about grabbing a substitute for you. Hence wanting to wait to see if you appeared, instead of trying to lynch someone that hadn't posted yet, for no other reasons. Inactivity is a good indicator of how scummy someone is, if you're trying not to get noticed by others, but in this case nobody thought of that because of it being the first day and what I already said. If later on, someone were to try to post small messages with no real substance and try to disappear for as long as they could, I'd agree with wanting to pressure them or vote them, but I was talking about the game state as of right now.

Ok, you believe it would be more "fair", in theory, to wait for me to return before voting. I understand that. Now, what do you think of the scenario I come back to and see that several people are voting on me? wouldn't it be interesting, if i were scum, to see how i would react to the pressure ?

What pressure would you feel, independent of alignment, if you already know people were voting you out of getting afk warnings instead of people thinking you're scum? I'm sorry, I can't follow. Do you think a mafia member would post differently instead of shrugging it, or...?

I think I'm either misunderstanding something, or you are.

Didn't you just say that pushing lurkers to contribute is scummy? Because bringing up that idea so early in the game sounds to me like an attempt to... push lurkers to contribute. Ah, well. I have nothing against lynching lurkers when the game moves a bit and there's more incentive to contribute (so, when there's actual information to work with, but people still choose not to post). Right now, I don't feel like lurkers are inherently scummy, because day 1 has been pretty clueless as to which direction to take, aside from gut feelings, and now I'm going to get to mine:

If I were forced to vote, I'd vote OS or PKP, because the clidd vote bandwagon was so weird, and because I think OS has only posted meme-y stuff, which is okay because it's the first day, but all of his posts are still of that nature and I'd like to see him talk a bit more. Although, a part of me thinks scum would rather get talkative townies lynched rather than lurkers, because that would increase their chances of winning, so I'm not exactly sure if my read of people is rather shitty. For now, I'll still abstain from voting, because I'd like to see more interaction.

Do you really think that if both were scum, they would vote together at the same time? wouldn't that be suspicious? if you abstain from voting and expect more interaction, why only others who have to interact and you don't have to ?

They can play with your line of thought too and just have multiple mafia members vote the same person so that you won't suspect they're both red, just saying. I'm not calling them both scum, by the way, I'm just saying those are the only two ticking me off as suspicious. And by interaction I meant more people speaking their mind and talking to others, not just voting. I thought I was interacting with you, at least.

Hum, ok.

[clidd]

I made a comparison with three other games, which he was town. I noticed that his pattern consists of a game start characterized by an expressive claim or announcement, marked by the use of wifom as a tool of persuasion to, at the same time that he is attracting attention, repelling suspicions due to the strong image of exalted self-confidence. Posts 18, 31, 46 show concern to help inexperienced players, being in coherence with the SE position established in post 8. Assimilation to past experiences in posts 45, 55, 56 and 85 demonstrate transparency in relation to the opinions formed, indicating progressive reasoning in order to develop the game forward, strengthened by the suggestion in post 97. In general, there is no bias in his lines, and his actions are motivated to progress in the team-game proactively. This is enough to consider him as lock-town, under the condition of BoP depending on how the first day and second day occur. If he is not killed within two days, however, I will regard his presence in the game as suspicious, unless there is a PR that has rescue (Doctor) helping him.

what's BoP

I agree that OS is pretty transparent and willing to help and move the game forward. But why would you say he is suspicious if he is not killed within two days?
I can see where you're heading, since towny players tend to be killed by mafia so that the mafia can conceal themselves better. So, if there's a towny player who somehow survives for a long time, he could be regarded as suspicious.
But, supposing that the mafia are townread by everyone in the game, they could also choose to kill scummy people, so that they don't get suspected for being "overly towny" or "so towny they're scummy" or something like that. I remember that happened in a game I played a long time ago on a different website.

Burden of Proficiency

->

'' Asserts that because the player in question has not yet found (enough) scum, they themselves are more likely to be scum ''

so, if he didn't find scum, or contribute to more than one misslynch, there is a high chance that he is mafia (as I am assuming that he has enough experience to be able to correctly find out who is scum or not). If he is helping the game to ''walk'', and is seen as TR by most, the mafia will not want him to stay in the game. Therefore: they will kill him, because he presents a threat. It is difficult for players like that to survive long.

[clidd]

And in the situation we are in, there are many potential misslynchs. If he is scum, it is very likely that he will be able to direct votes that, in theory, seem justified by some scummy action by the player being accused, but are errors due to the difference in experience between one player and another. The line that separates

newbie!Scum

from

newbie!Town

is very tenuous. So I will make sure to treat him carefully as the game continues. The same goes for the other two SEs, but not as intensely (since I put BoP only in the O.S).

[clidd]

I made a comparison with 5 past games, 3 as town and 2 as scum. Chronologically, I can see that from the 1968 game, the expression '' howdy '' was created, which was repeated in the 1982 game, in an attempt to establish a meta favorable to their read as town. However, later, it was also applied in bad faith in both 1974 and 1976 games (scums), mischaracterizing the expression's link with their alignment, and making it a null standard. While reading both scum games, especially 1974 (which has more content), I noticed that their behavior is much more centered and neutral, with semi-premeditated lines and placements, as they maintain their posture and education. Something that is opposite to the extroverted and more incisive stance seen in the three games as town, where the "fear" is much less, with bolder premises and sporadically genuine acts. In this game, precisely in the posts post 68 and 79, I notice, respectively, a very premature consideration, without the development of a justification (guts), and a spontaneously early reaction, with no previous communication channel. Both examples seem to agree with their town pattern, as well as the suggestively emotional error (rush / lack of attention) in the transition between posts 112 and 113, and in the SR statement in post 119, which was done without structuring of a table of previous reads (something I noted in their scum pattern).

Well, wouldn't "premature considerations without the development of a justification" be considered a scummy act? It's something I've seen either bad town or mafia do.
Pulling arguments out of nowhere and not providing explanations for them isn't good for town.
In addition, I don't quite get your argument about JV not making a table of reads. Why does not making one make Jackson look towny?
Like, even though it may fit their scum pattern, doesn't gameplay depend more on situation than trying to match meta?
Like, I'm just very used to seeing a table of reads as NAI since people just do it when they have time.

1° For now, it's fitting into their standard as town.

Scum!Jackson

usually assumes less careless instances and plans better what they are going to say.

2° Yes, it isn't good in general. But in the discriminated context, it is valid according to the

town!Jackson

playstyle.

3° It would be more for the purpose in the formulation of the SR. Normally, they would be more careful in this regard, and avoid making comments like "lock-scum" without first providing a more concrete table of reads (as they normally do as scum).

4° Meta is important to distinguish patterns of play, which usually manifest itselves more intensely on the first day. Evidently, it is not an absolute information, but complementary to draw possible alignments attributed to that behavior. Very few players are able to successfully change their standards from one game to the other. Assuming that the majority follows a specific line, statistically, it is interesting to make initial deductions based on this behavioral information. Obviously, as interactions arise, it will be possible to rethink whether these considerations do, in fact, reflect the alignment I suggested to them.

5° Hum, it depends. In particular, I believe that the composition of the table reveals the effort applied to it. Depending on how it is posted, either in isolation (where the intention is to emphasize), or accompanied by an analysis (where the intention is to make a reflection), it is possible to assimilate some inferences about them. So very simple tables, which indicate more objective traits, or tables accompanied by phrases like '' ok, this is a summary '' that indicate insecurity in the representativeness of thought. Even so, because it is a difficult factor to measure, partly due to its subjective / interpretive characteristic, I agree that it is NAI, but it is still valid to associate it with behavior patterns.

[clidd]

I agree with the idle lynch policy.

[clidd]

Pool:

OldMapleNostalgia

and

Phi Kappa Phi

. I liked Maduisha's responses, so I don't intend to lynch her yet.

UNVOTE: Maduisha

[clidd]

Thus: VOTE: Phi Kappa Phi

[clidd]

This is L-1.

[clidd]

To pass the message:

'' you must come back and communicate with us, otherwise you will be lynched ''

[clidd]

I don't understand your posts, 72offsuit. Could you be clearer ?

[clidd]

I made a comparison with three other games, which he was town. I noticed that his pattern consists of a game start characterized by an expressive claim or announcement, marked by the use of wifom as a tool of persuasion to, at the same time that he is attracting attention, repelling suspicions due to the strong image of exalted self-confidence. Posts 18, 31, 46 show concern to help inexperienced players, being in coherence with the SE position established in post 8. Assimilation to past experiences in posts 45, 55, 56 and 85 demonstrate transparency in relation to the opinions formed, indicating progressive reasoning in order to develop the game forward, strengthened by the suggestion in post 97. In general, there is no bias in his lines, and his actions are motivated to progress in the team-game proactively. This is enough to consider him as lock-town, under the condition of BoP depending on how the first day and second day occur. If he is not killed within two days, however, I will regard his presence in the game as suspicious, unless there is a PR that has rescue (Doctor) helping him.

what's BoP

I agree that OS is pretty transparent and willing to help and move the game forward. But why would you say he is suspicious if he is not killed within two days?
I can see where you're heading, since towny players tend to be killed by mafia so that the mafia can conceal themselves better. So, if there's a towny player who somehow survives for a long time, he could be regarded as suspicious.
But, supposing that the mafia are townread by everyone in the game, they could also choose to kill scummy people, so that they don't get suspected for being "overly towny" or "so towny they're scummy" or something like that. I remember that happened in a game I played a long time ago on a different website.

This post pings me in a bad way.Very WIFOMY, doesnt further analyse a particular player, very general, general mafia theory, barely ties back to this game.

Someone jump on the GW wagon. Get on it!

Post*, this one.

[clidd]

If I'm absolutely sure, I don't hesitate to hammer a lurker. I've done this a lot in the past.

[clidd]

But I agree, the pressure scenario is ideal.

[clidd]

Hum.

[clidd]

If I'm absolutely sure, I don't hesitate to hammer a lurker. I've done this a lot in the past.

Why would you hammer a lurker this quick?
There's more than half the day left, why would you be so eager to hammer a player?
This sounds like an excuse to quickly lynch someone and end the day as soon as possible tbh.

I spoke hypothetically, if I had confidence about my read on the player I'm hammering on. Which, of course, is not the case now.

[clidd]

72offsuit and clidd are both looking pretty scummy right now.

It would be interesting for you to develop this. I am not sure if I understood your case about me.

[clidd]

i'm pretty out of time right now so i'll post some more stuff tomorrow

Ok, bring an answer tomorrow.

[clidd]

I have scum-reads on GeneralWu and Kappa

I understand suspecting PKP because of the random clidd vote and saying it's weird not to vote, but why GW?

Overly serious, pings me as someone who wants to act like they're trying to solve the game when they're not.

Eh not as strong a read as Kappa but it's what I see aorn

so how am i "acting like i'm trying to solve the game when i'm not"?
Also how is being serious a bad thing?

This is why sometimes in the right context being serious is scummy, Straight from the wiki:

It's the so-called LAMIST - (Look At ME Im So Town!) tell and it's still relevant enough to have its own acronym! Newbscum usually are very concerned with 'looking good' to avoid falling under suspicion, but don't know how to fake-scumhunt. Instead, they will do things like pushing the lurkers to contribute, trying to "resuscitate" them by voting them, asking for reads on themselves, talking a lot about the game itself (this is called IIoA), claiming they are doing anything in their power to get information.

Your post fits the LAMIST tell in my eyes, therefore i think you are scummy

uhh if I remember correctly jackson was the one who thought I was being overly serious
Also how am I "pushing the lurkers to contribute"? Did I even say anything that was to push a lurker to say something?
In addition, I how have I "tried to 'resuscitate'" any lurkers by voting them? I never voted a lurker this whole game.
I may have asked for

reasons

for reads on myself, since no one can say "I think so and so is towny" or "I think so and so is scummy" and expect us to agree with him if he doesn't provide some good reasons.
I also didn't ask for the reads themselves.
And where am I "talking a lot about the game itself"?

seriously wtmoo where did this random accusation come from?
I'll have to take a closer look at 72offsuit's posts since they're striking me as weird.

I'm not saying tthat you have DONE EVERY SINGLE ITEM in that DEFINITION of LAMIST.
I was answering your question as to why being serious is scummy.

It would be better if you focused on inactive slots, rather than maintaining this tunnel on GeneralWu. It seems much more likely that newbie

scum

is uninterested in this game. Which, clearly, is not his case.

[clidd]

72offsuit and clidd are both looking pretty scummy right now.

It would be interesting for you to develop this. I am not sure if I understood your case about me.

Clidd, did you understand his case against me?

I understood the motivation, although I don't agree. I was more interested in seeing the reasoning of seeing my act as "scummy". Particularly, I spent 4-5 hours researching and setting up my initial post. It is offensive to me that someone reads me as SR without having a firm basis to justify what he is talking about.

[clidd]

And yes, that was a generalization. I believe that the nature of this game points to inactive scum.

[clidd]

Kappa got hammered.

[clidd]

O.S was obvtown by his playstyle (and meta), that was a good kill.

[clidd]

I'm tracker by the way. GW visited the masonhood wielding a bazooka.

Meme-claim ?

[clidd]

I'm a bit pissed that I only suspected 2 people and they both turned out green, I suck at this game more than I remembered. Anyway, we now have more info about our role layout... which is not good...

But isn't it exciting?!

Hum. You could have heard Kappa's defense before deciding the premature hammer. Your action significantly damaged my read about you.

[clidd]

In any other game you repeat this, your lynch will take place immediately the next day, keep that in mind. Putting him on L-1 was essential to get a better reaction. He would have to defend himself or be lynched, which would elicit an emotional response.

[clidd]

O.S was obvtown by his playstyle (and meta), that was a good kill.

Based on this, the chances of being two newbies in the

scum team

are remote.

[clidd]

In any other game you repeat this, your lynch will take place immediately the next day, keep that in mind. Putting him on L-1 was essential to get a better reaction. He would have to defend himself or be lynched, which would elicit an emotional response.

Explain this to me! Why would I get lynched in a different game? Is what I did scummy? If it is, would the mafia risk losing a member on day 2?

And you can still get me lynched in this one!!!!! I crave attention. I need it, come on, man...

Maduisha

, do you understand that by knowing the term

''scummy''

, you must unconsciously be able to assimilate what makes someone scummy, right ? I can perfectly theorize that your partner could have guided you to do this, considering that such a move can be interpreted as wifom. So, yes, it would be possible for mafia to risk losing a player on day 2.

However, lines like:

(But I like that you voted for me.)

And you can still get me lynched in this one!!!!! I crave attention. I need it, come on, man...

I know that, but I was bored

Give the impression that you are playing some kind of "character", while trying to sell the idea that you did not understand the repercussions of your act the day before.

The question is:

is this associated with the

green

or

red

faction ? what do you hope to achieve with such behavior ?

I'm very bored and I actually don't care anymore if he turns up scum or townie, or whatever I might look after this, so I'm actually hammering him.

VOTE: Phi Kappa Phi

Reason: I'm jealous of his Phi profile picture.

Hammering someone who you think might be a potential town, being of green alignment,

isn't playing against your own winning conditions

?

[clidd]

Look at yourselves, you got the vanilla townie lynched. I suggest we lynch the hammerer next.

Putting people on L-1 is dangerous!

Wouldn't it be hypocritical to lynch the next individual who will hammer and ignore what you did ?

[clidd]

Hum, ok. You are a variation of sociopath, enjoying the game in your own way. Can I see it that way ?

[clidd]

I will ignore your previous post because I do not care what people see me as

You can call me sociopath if you like, but you just hurt my feelings!

?

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

[clidd]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

[clidd]

Clidd:
You wrote in your wall that it was strange that I wanted to maintain neutrality while still pointing out someone's strange behavior. I mostly agree, but I can attribute that to getting a read on how the meta of the game itself would play out. So I'll start pushing. How can you conclude that the mafia team is not consisted of two newbies? They just need to recognize that OS was the best player in this game, which is something that you acknowledged in your wall. Is it too far of a jump for mafia newbies to recognize that he is a good kill when you literally told them that it was? You point this out again at the start of the day that, why are you adamant in letting people know that OS was lock-town in your eyes? I don’t like this behavior, fos on you

Can you simplify your reasoning ? I didn't understand what you meant.

[clidd]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

We shouldn't get them to claim, it'd be +ev to keep them hidden

You understand that he can be killed during the night, correct ? it would be interesting to claim now, while this scenario has not occurred. Considering that they have no night action, the effectiveness of the role with the dead partner is null. Now, with the revelation, it would help PoE by dropping it from the lynch pool for today.

[clidd]

And of course, with the mason revealed, I will gain +1 day (because I suspect I'm next on the murder list tonight).

[clidd]

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

[clidd]

Incorrect. I am probably dying tonight, so i need someone to die in my place. If they didn't kill me, mason lives and leads tomorrow. In both ways we gain something.

Why would they kill you if they can kill someone that can factually prove they're not red...? The mafia doesn't want the town to have someone they know they can trust.

According to the mechanical peculiarities of the setup, we have no investigative PR among us, just two masons (and one already died). And yes, if the mason reveals himself, it is evident that the chances of him dying are greater. But in this scenario, I will be alive tomorrow and will be able to have a significant impact on the game.

[clidd]

Well, I have already expressed my opinion on Maduisha case. If majority wants to lynch her, that's fine, but I won't get involved for two reasons:

1° She being scum implies early-game suicide strategy.
2° Volatile behavior indicates authenticity of thought, difficult to fake as scum. Newbie!Scum usually plays more timidly, especially the first time. The way she attracted attention is opposite to that premise.

[clidd]

You are very innocent, Maduisha. You can't be scum.

[clidd]

What does O.S's death suggest to you ?

[clidd]

'' Kill all threats ''

— Would be what this death indicates. Under no circumstances mafia will choose at random. They will always rely, as a rule, on the reads they obtained during the day, to try to '' hunt down '' potential hidden PRs, or, in this case, get rid of possible threats in the course of the game. The context in which we are, makes it explicit that roles such as doctor, cop and jailor were not assigned to this game, therefore, our alignment does not have any tools to investigate the opposite alignment. In the case of masons, the main advantage is the exchange of information between the two, evidently interrupted by this early death. The purpose of the role has already been uncharacterized, since the remaining mason only has its role as information, which will only serve to discard it from the PoE process at the moment when we are going to select a lynch. With that in mind, it is much more beneficial for the mafia not to necessarily hunt down the remaining mason (as it has no recourse to inflict damage on them), but to eliminate proactive players from the game (like me, for example).

The premise of the mason staying alive until the 3rd or 4th day is detrimental to us, as no one can prove that he is, in fact, a mason. Therefore, the mafia can execute a cc (counter-claim). In the lylo scenario, this is an advantage for the red faction, for obvious reasons.

[clidd]

The fact of Maduisha's failure to associate this shows that:

A.

she is town, B. her partner is coordinating (this would imply a suicidal / inconsistent strategy) or

C.

she is scum and has been acting sporadically on the lynch issue (which mathematically is unlikely to hit the O.S in first night).

[clidd]

And, as I already mentioned, I prefer the mason to reveal itself today, as I will be able to work better in my lynch pool and, consequently, enhance our chances of hitting scum. The scenario in which that didn't happen, and we have another misslynch today, I will die at night and the game is likely to be ruined (lylo with ceejayvinoya will be a headache).

[clidd]

Sacrifice.

[clidd]

Hum, It would be advantageous for me to survive, even if I am suspicious. I believe that I can collaborate to solve this game if I reach the 3rd day.

[clidd]

And I still insist that the mason declare himself, if possible. I feel the scenario of lylo approaching with this current discussion.

[clidd]

Mae's confidence and them sticking to their logic screams cocky town to me

I don't understand the term +ev, but what's wrong with the mason revealing themselves? It's a townie confirmation, if anything. Ahh, unless you guys are actually going to lynch me for wanting to skip the day, then they're worth more hidden until day 3, I guess...

Then I say the mason should stay hidden if you guys are adamant about that.

Spicy take. Clidd is power wolfing and is wanting a reason to why they're not killed N2

Jackson, explain this.

[clidd]

Clidd:
You wrote in your wall that it was strange that I wanted to maintain neutrality while still pointing out someone's strange behavior. I mostly agree, but I can attribute that to getting a read on how the meta of the game itself would play out. So I'll start pushing. How can you conclude that the mafia team is not consisted of two newbies? They just need to recognize that OS was the best player in this game, which is something that you acknowledged in your wall. Is it too far of a jump for mafia newbies to recognize that he is a good kill when you literally told them that it was? You point this out again at the start of the day that, why are you adamant in letting people know that OS was lock-town in your eyes? I don’t like this behavior, fos on you

OldMaple, develop this.

[clidd]

It would have been better if you let Kappa claim first

Claim ? shouldn't he defend himself first ?

[clidd]

VOTE: GeneralWu

Why didn't you vote on Maduisha ?

[clidd]

I don't know the term ''power wolfing''.

[clidd]

'' And that's when the mason is the most valuable ''

Wrong, mafia will cc mason. Town will be forced to lynch between 2 players. 50% of losing lylo and 50% of winning, instead of 70% or more with Clidd's reads.

[clidd]

Day 2

--> 7 players

2 mafia

vs

5 town

(

-2

--> Misslynch/Night-kill)

Day 3

-->

3 town

vs

2 mafia

(if mason alive, cc) --> (50/50 between both)

Maybe mason alive works (without mason chance is 2/5 of hitting mafia) but my life would be at risk.

[clidd]

But that would imply two lylos in a row.

[clidd]

Clidd wanting self preservation over a confirmed townie dieing is concerning

Fake. Are you mafia, Jackson ? or mason ?

[clidd]

I don't know the term ''power wolfing''.

Oooh
It's where Mafia (wolves) play strong and aggressive like a town leader would I guess you could word it

My playstyle varies depending on the playerlist. As the majority here were convinced of a lynch that has no opposition, there is little room for flexibility in the reads. Therefore, I am obliged to take a more aggressive stance, otherwise passivity will lead to defeat.

[clidd]

Sometimes it feels like I started a singleplayer game and I'm playing in story mode.

[clidd]

It is not possible that only I saw the scenario of cc in the mason..

[clidd]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

[clidd]

Of course you didn't but claiming now is -ev so if you're town just stop. You're actually saying that getting the Mason killed is better than a VT

Mason can't do anything at this point, to be honest.

[clidd]

Considering Maduisha as town, myself and mason, i can do a PoE based on impressions and meta to establish a lynch today.

[clidd]

With you as town, too, we can do better than this.

[clidd]

Unless you want Maduisha today. In this case, my vote won't move.

[clidd]

So, basically: me + mason revealed + Madusha =

3 towns

--> 7 - 3 = 4 players to choose (2 mafia/ 2 town), 50/50 scenario anticipated before lylo.

With you (if you are town):

4 towns

--> 7-4 = 3 players to choose (1 town/2 mafia), 2/3 chances of hitting mafia.

[clidd]

Now you understood.

UNVOTE: JacksonVirgo

[clidd]

Mad, you, myself and the Mason are probably all town. Scum is in ceejay, maple, general and 72

My guess is maple and 72

Unless mason claims, then it's just between three players to figure out (considering you are not the mason).

[clidd]

Well, we basically broke the game here if that's right.

[clidd]

ceejayvinoya

, you are usually misslynched in many games (that i read). Why ?

[clidd]

Waiting for mason too, we can solve the game today.

[clidd]

Good deduction, lol. I completely missed that detail.

[clidd]

In this case, the cc would not work. You thought really ahead, lol. Now I understand why you was reluctant for mason claiming.

[clidd]

But ok, now we have to focus on the PoE I mentioned. With mason, we can confirm, in theory,

4 players

. We lynch among the rest of the remaining pool.

[clidd]

Considering GeneralWu is mason:

72offsuit --> ?
clidd --

Town

Maduisha --

Town

Phi Kappa Phi --

DEAD

GeneralWu -->

Mason

OldMapleNostalgia --> ?
ceejayvinoya (SE) --> ?
JacksonVirgo (SE) -->

Town

ObviousScum (SE) -->

DEAD

[clidd]

Hum, that make sense. The problem is that SEs aren't the only players with experience (formally).

[clidd]

72offsuit killing O.S make sense to me.

[clidd]

Clidd do you always color your text? I tried at one point but it's tedious

Yes, im high effort this game. 4 hours to make my initial post.

[clidd]

So the scum team, following the mason's logic is one of the following combinations:

Maple + 72off

|

72off + Ceejay

|

Maple + Ceejay

[clidd]

This will only chance if we are wrong about GeneralWu being mason.

[clidd]

This will only chance if we are wrong about GeneralWu being mason.

Correction: change*

[clidd]

Some real top shelf scumhunting going down

Scum reaction. Thanks for making it easier.

[clidd]

You are as town in my PoE.

[clidd]

Are you mad ? he wasn't null.

VOTE: 72offsuit

[clidd]

Anyone with a brain could tell that this was his town meta. It is an insult that you ask me such a question.

[clidd]

I know OS was town because im mason. I'll get back to you guys in an hour or so

Thanks. Any cc to this ?

[clidd]

Not sure if it's shyness or something, but it weirds me out that a lot of people haven't even voted yet

It weirds me out that you had voted for somebody who hasn't even posted yet

Yeah, voting for people that haven't even showed up feels wrong. I don't really know who to vote for yet, but those asking for people to cast votes aren't giving me good vibes, and two of them have votes on the same person.

I agree with these
There's no point in forcing everyone to cast a vote, especially this early in the game.
Also it's especially not good to vote for people who probably haven't even looked at the thread yet
It's much better to wait till they actually post something before voting them

This feels like a contradiction. You are saying pushing for people to vote is a bad idea.
JV votes PKP and we get a very non-chalant response from PKP at being voted. This prompts you to scumread/at least question PKP's response.

So basically JVs vote has stimulated discussion and a potential scum read on PKP and yet you are saying pushing others to bote is bad?

Votes are good because they stimulate discussion and force players to take a stance, rather than sit on the fence, which favours scum, as scum can then just come up with a fake 'scum read' late in the day to lynch a townie.

Im on board the GW lynch train.
Jump aboard people, plenty of room on the wagon.
Choo choo

VOTE: GW

VOTE: GeneralWu

I'm tracker by the way. GW visited the masonhood wielding a bazooka.

Would

scum!72offsuit

buss his partner ?

[clidd]

Well, I have already expressed my opinion on Maduisha case. If majority wants to lynch her, that's fine, but I won't get involved for two reasons:

1° She being scum implies early-game suicide strategy.
2° Volatile behavior indicates authenticity of thought, difficult to fake as scum. Newbie!Scum usually plays more timidly, especially the first time. The way she attracted attention is opposite to that premise.

THIS. Town is reckless. Scum is calculating, has a scum private thread to discuss plans. Scum cares about appearances. Town is more likely to have an i dont give a shit attitude.
Furthermore, I seriously doubt! ScumMad's scum buddy to scummily hammer like that.

Mad is town.

zzz. Ok.

[clidd]

Can you confess soon? it won't be long before we catch your partner.

[clidd]

I'm getting impatient with this idle playerlist.

[clidd]

? I'm not understanding you.

[clidd]

Can you shut up ? im losing I.Q with each of your posts.

[clidd]

Ok, guys

72offsuit

is scum. Vote on him.

[clidd]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

Agree with this. It would stop scum from ccing and give us a confirmed townie

A Cc gives 50*50 of lynching scum. Should be saved for tomorrow. Mafia have only 20 percent chance of night killing mason tonight. We scumhunt without a mason claim.

'' I don't trust your plan ''

Ok, guys

72offsuit

is scum. Vote on him.

As of right now my solve is ceejay and GW. Their interaction early in the game sounded extremely artificial

'' Wait, i changed my mind ''

[clidd]

A genuine reaction would not have been confusing, but would have immediately contributed to the PoE.

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

Agree with this. It would stop scum from ccing and give us a confirmed townie

Like this.

[clidd]

Im considering

you

and

GeneralWu

as a team. Checkmate.

[clidd]

You right now:

Spoiler:

'' Dammit, they got me '' -

72offsuit

[clidd]

Can you start your AtE (appeal to emotions) or something ? unless you want to skip this stage, of course.

[clidd]

VOTE: 72offsuit

[clidd]

I was expecting more, honestly. I can distinguish between genuine and false reactions. You unconscious do not seem uncomfortable with anything I said, because you know I am correct. Of course, as the rules suggest, you should try until the end, for your partner's sake.

[clidd]

Your vote is just bad. Your reasoning is bad. You completley ignored my responses to your questions which makes you scummy.

"Just" ? I have never seen such a controlled and superficial response as this. The two genuine reactions here would be: 1. dialogue to improve the accuracy of the PoE (because you know that your role is not scum) or 2. Show firmness in the denials, making your opposition clear. In both scenarios you have failed miserably, as you choose to adopt a neutral stance.

[clidd]

The fact that you did not vote automatically on me shows a lack of emotional response to the accusation. Evidently, when a liar is aware that someone else knows that he is faking, he spares himself wasting time on chemical reactions such as anger or distress, because he knows that his position is false. I don't need to pressure you, because these signs are transparent to me.

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

[clidd]

Anyways, we are lynching you today. L-3 (3 votes remaining to lynch)

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

Do you think scum votes for a player without too many scumreads on them, then asks for others to join wagon on said player, who has had at least one player already town read them?

What did you try to say here ?

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

Explain how ineffective = scummy. I'm all ears

Attempt to materialize a death tunnel since day 1 that did not work. It is not the first time that I have seen scum doing this.

[clidd]

Your vote is just bad. Your reasoning is bad. You completley ignored my responses to your questions which makes you scummy.

"Just" ? I have never seen such a controlled and superficial response as this. The two genuine reactions here would be: 1. dialogue to improve the accuracy of the PoE (because you know that your role is not scum) or 2. Show firmness in the denials, making your opposition clear. In both scenarios you have failed miserably, as you choose to adopt a neutral stance.

Why would I agree with a PoE with someone I do NOT have a TR on?

It is not how it works. You did not show collaboration with our mathematical solution. If you REALLY was town, you would have concisely elucidated why your didn't want your SR on it and probably would know who the scum team is (since you would discard your slot via PoE).

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

Ok, so if i'm lynched today, then you are happy to lynch GW tomorrow?

Yes, we are.

[clidd]

So, there are 7 people left. I think JV, clidd, and me (heh) are townies.

Mapple, GW, and 72 are scummy, although I'm tempted to say that if GW is scum, 72 is probably not. Let's see if there's counter claim to make things more interesting.

As for ceejay, the fact that apparently he's usually this quiet no matter what he plays as makes it very hard to read, so they can be scum hiding in plain sight and nobody will bat an eye, very problematic.

Ceejay is usually misslynched in most of his games. His tone seems town to me in this game (and he is collaborating). I prefer to consider 72 first, as GW did not return the charges.

[clidd]

Im considering

you

and

GeneralWu

as a team. Checkmate.

^See above

And yes, you are bluffing here. You are very calm considering that tomorrow is lylo (at your point of view). Pointing at another player in this context is disconnected from the image of a town being wrongly accused. You seem to be digging your own grave with each reaction.

[clidd]

L-2 now (2 votes to lynch) --> 72offsuit

[clidd]

L-2 now (2 votes to lynch) --> 72offsuit

Wrong. Its L-1.

Find it hard to believe you would make that mistake.

Another test you didn't pass.

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

Ok, so if i'm lynched today, then you are happy to lynch GW tomorrow?

Yes, we are.

And when you say " WE" who are you referring to?

Town PoE, another test you didn't pass².

[clidd]

Your vote is just bad. Your reasoning is bad. You completley ignored my responses to your questions which makes you scummy.

"Just" ? I have never seen such a controlled and superficial response as this. The two genuine reactions here would be: 1. dialogue to improve the accuracy of the PoE (because you know that your role is not scum) or 2. Show firmness in the denials, making your opposition clear. In both scenarios you have failed miserably, as you choose to adopt a neutral stance.

Why would I agree with a PoE with someone I do NOT have a TR on?

It is not how it works. You did not show collaboration with our mathematical solution. If you REALLY was town, you would have concisely elucidated why your didn't want your SR on it and probably would know who the scum team is (since you would discard your slot via PoE).

I just told you the plan sucks. Why would I agree with a plan that i dont see as benefiting town?

You didn't even try to understand. Your ignorance was your downfall here.

[clidd]

Im considering

you

and

GeneralWu

as a team. Checkmate.

^See above

And yes, you are bluffing here. You are very calm considering that tomorrow is lylo (at your point of view). Pointing at another player in this context is disconnected from the image of a town being wrongly accused. You seem to be digging your own grave with each reaction.

Lol you are scum or you are town with confbias.

You accuse me of being too calm. If i responded aggressively you wouldve said it was AtE.
If I was panicky you would say i was flailing.

Dude, regardless of whether, you’re thinking A LOT about how you’re going to react, it’s obvious you’re trapped. Genuine response is not planned, it is spontaneous, natural. You cannot fake this.

[clidd]

Your tunnel was hasty and ineffective. Even if it is not a buss, I am convinced that you are scum given your latest interactive comments about my theory.

Explain how ineffective = scummy. I'm all ears

Attempt to materialize a death tunnel since day 1 that did not work. It is not the first time that I have seen scum doing this.

Just because you have seen scum do this doesnt mean its scummy.

Are you saying you have never played with town that does this?

Its non alignment indicative and you are making up as if its scummy.

Death tunnels are the most common scum strategy i ever seen. That, obviously, was not the only clue I used to determine your guilt. All your reactions point to a lying and unconvincing mindset.

[clidd]

You right now:

Spoiler:

'' Dammit, they got me '' -

72offsuit

.

[clidd]

I am completely comfortable if someone hammered him now. 0 chances of green flip.

[clidd]

You had your chance to contribute or at least try to dialogue with us. Needless to say, your reaction during my speculation with Jackson was pathetic, as was your vote earlier in the day.

[clidd]

Lynching player generating discussion and letting the lurkers lurk. Definitely not town play. At least 1, possibly both scum on my wagon.
Easy game.

The fact there are 0 counterwagons makes it pretty obvious im town.
Mafia doesnt bus when they have killed a PR.

Did you just think that now? pathetic. I imagined the scenario that you took hours to think in a few minutes, and I still believe that your scum indicator is high enough to justify a lynch. Your buss started on the first day, you just took advantage of the "logic" of having killed a PR to extend the vote and remove suspicions from your tunnel about your partner.

[clidd]

Your accusing mr of not having Dialogue with you? LOL
Keep on digging your grave.

Zzz, I already got you. Think about a better defense.

[clidd]

You had your chance to contribute or at least try to dialogue with us. Needless to say, your reaction during my speculation with Jackson was pathetic, as was your vote earlier in the day.

Now you are just trolling me. Im going to stop wasting time responding to your garbage.

Hum, ok.

"Garbage because I found both scums"

[clidd]

1 - Maduisha is your counter wagon and you are not voting on hee.

2 - There is no other wagon besides these two because your partner is AFK.

3 - You didn't vote me, but said that you don't trust my plan (so you MIGHT think im scum, right ?)

4 - You didn't colaborate or tried to understand the reason why i am doing the PoE (mason died)

5 - Vote on GW started D1, mason died D2 (your bussing didn't consider PR dead)

[clidd]

Mad's recklessness hammer just feels more like scum trying to pretend to be too scummy to be scum.

Why aren't you voting then ?

[clidd]

OS:
It was obvious to me that he was town. I am sure many people didn't like his entry to the game; however, as pointed out by Clidd, it was consistent with his other games. Him being open on playing his alt is also indicative of having nothing to hide. If he was scum, hiding his alt may have subconsciously played into his behavior. I don't see how people thought he was LOCK-scum at all.

Lol... How was he obv town?

He was Null as.

You saying he was obv town is scummy as

I explained using meta why he was lock-town, i doub you didn't understand that.

[clidd]

I just told you the

plan sucks

. Why would I agree with a plan that

i dont see as benefiting town

?

You had your chance to contribute or at least try to dialogue with us. Needless to say, your reaction during my speculation with Jackson was pathetic, as was your vote earlier in the day.

Now you are just trolling me. Im going to stop wasting time responding to your

garbage

.

Comparison with the reaction of a

scum

from a past game when accused by me:

I think looking for town reads over scum reads is viable in this setup.

Why you town reading Norway?

I agree, I'm not really scumreading anyone which now which is why I'm trying to work off of my townreads.

I'm leaning town on Norwee because I think as town he has a tendency to get pushed early when he's town and his play him mimics his town game decently well. I also need to look back and reevaluate Hectic's push on him.

Also I don't think clidd is new to mafia by any means so I think it's disingenuous to read him under the guise of 'he's a newbie'

By newbie I mean newbie to MS's way of playing. Which I think is reiterated by the

hot garbage logic

he has displayed. Like could be proven wrong tho. But I feel pretty happy with the level of effort I have seen.

Okies, I have issues with this bc I think your conclusions

are all wrong

.
1. I think given the mechanics and the need for traitors to not hammer each other that associative and reading in to information gathering allows for plenty of associatives later in to the game. I think fundamentally this game functions similarly to any other, just that some of the logic behind it changes. I don't think any play style is alignment indicative.
2. No daychat is common enough and has not been proven to change play styles a heap. I don't think there is likely any way to reliably signal traitor to traitor, however wolf could be signalling. Pre-day Strats tend to never go to plan in MS style mafia bc there is far too long required to hold up and any tenseness created by trying to illogically stick to a game plan gets scum read quickly. Over a few hours or 1 day, this can be expected to maybe work, but not here.
3. I kinda see your logic here but I don't think that the

logic doesn't apply to town

. We also don't want to hammer bc if we're wrong we lose flat out.
4. I think I covered this in point 2.
5. Given the small player list and that vocal people tend to be both strongly town read and strongly scum read, I think there is very little to be gained from looking at in thread charisma and presence as indicative of anything other than player skill neutrally.

Given that I don't really see your logic all together I think that any conclusions while potentially correct due to the near coin flip of any slot flipping scum, I think it would be purely coincidental.

Espeonage has been lynched. He was a

Werewolf Traitor!

All Wolfies and Traitors have been lynched. The town of Hectic, Norwegianboyww, AaronFrost, and. Clidd have won!

[clidd]

This is why sometimes in the right context being serious is scummy, Straight from the wiki:

It's the so-called LAMIST - (Look At ME Im So Town!) tell and it's still relevant enough to have its own acronym!

Newbscum usually are very concerned with 'looking good' to avoid falling under suspicion, but don't know how to fake-scumhunt

.

Instead, they will do things like pushing the lurkers to contribute, trying to "resuscitate" them by voting them

, asking for reads on themselves, talking a lot about the game itself (this is called IIoA), claiming they are doing anything in their power to get information.

Lynching player generating discussion and letting the lurkers lurk. Definitely not town play

. At least 1, possibly both scum on my wagon.
Easy game.

The fact there are 0 counterwagons makes it pretty obvious im town.
Mafia doesnt bus when they have killed a PR.

Explain this.

[clidd]

Pushing lurkers is a ''Newbscum'' act according to your logic, but letting lurkers lurk is a not a town play ? what ?

[clidd]

Hum, I'm impatient to close this case. But I agree that it would be interesting to wait for GW.

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

[clidd]

Now, changing the subject: who is the second

mason

among us ?

72offsuit
Maduisha
GeneralWu
OldMapleNostalgia
ceejayvinoya (SE)
JacksonVirgo (SE)

At this point, the chance of fake claims has passed. There is no point in continuing to keep your identity hidden.

not me. I'm a

Vanilla Townie

Also I agree that at this point the last mason should probably claim by now, since the mason role doesn't really do anything without the second mason.

btw why do you always post with colors? While it might make the game a bit easier to read, isn't it kind of slow?

It's my standard when I want to emphasize something.

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

well have you considered the fact that people who do what maduisha did are more likely to be scum? even though some people who have done that may have been town, it doesn't mean everyone who does that is town.

Experienced players, perhaps.

Newb!Scum

, no. If you have a statistical basis (completed matches) to support your argument, I will take back what I said.

[clidd]

Both

mafia

PRs do nothing in the current scenario. Mason without his partner is a role without mechanical power, so I asked it to claim.

[clidd]

My PoE right now:

72offsuit -->

Mafia

clidd --

Town

Maduisha --

Town

GeneralWu --> ?
OldMapleNostalgia -->

Mason

ceejayvinoya (SE) --> ?
JacksonVirgo (SE) -->

Town

[clidd]

Considering that i am correct about Maduisha, of course.

[clidd]

So, if you're truly

town

, GeneralWu,

ceejay

+

72offsuit

make sense to you ?

[clidd]

Just to be clear:

I'm not voting on you because I believe in other possibilities that would consider your innocence. But, I confess that you are leaving me in a difficult position to judge.

tbh this post (and a few other ones from clidd) make me feel like if maduisha is a wolf, he'd also be one.
clidd gives me this feeling that he's trying to shield maduisha by letting her newbcard and stuff.

Hum, no.

Scum!clidd

is much more discreet. I'm just considering that she can be town because of past experiences (of players with similar behavior who were

towns

and were misslynched).

well have you considered the fact that people who do what maduisha did are more likely to be scum? even though some people who have done that may have been town, it doesn't mean everyone who does that is town.

Experienced players, perhaps.

Newb!Scum

, no. If you have a statistical basis (completed matches) to support your argument, I will take back what I said.

why would experienced players do that
I mean if you have someone who's good at the game with a first timer scumbuddy, the pro guy might instruct his scumbuddy to do that.
I feel like newer players are more likely to do that kind of quick hang, since they're able to newbcard and have a higher chance of getting away with it.

Hum, it's possible, but unlikely. Maduisha's behavior was extremely suspicious and would cause her to be lynched immediately. I don't see where that would bring an advantage to her partner (i was the first to TR her, so their strategy didn't work, obviously)

[clidd]

This type of strategy would only work if everyone had a flexible mindset like mine. Evidently, most were initially in favor of Maduisha's lynch. Since day 1 it was already possible to deduce that this type of approach would rarely work in this type of game, given the playerlist.

[clidd]

No, this reasoning is very simplistic. The votes on her only stopped because I intervened (precisely because I suspect she is town).

[clidd]

She would be lynched instantly.

[clidd]

So, if you're truly

town

, GeneralWu,

ceejay

+

72offsuit

make sense to you ?

Answer this, Wu.

[clidd]

Spoiler:

[clidd]

Ok, both are equal in IQ. I need someone to hammer 72.

[clidd]

@

Maduisha

@

OldMapleNostalgia

I need both to get back to the game and vote.

[clidd]

I'll probably ignore you at this point, 72.

[clidd]

72offsuit

L-1 (1 vote to lynch).

[clidd]

Yes, because he is your partner.

[clidd]

If neither Clidd nor GW are the lynch for today, then i will vote for whatever OMN decides.

I have already explained in 5 different dimensions why you are

scum

. Please be quiet and be held in silence. Waiting for real hammer.

VOTE: 72offsuit

Spoiler:

[clidd]

OS:
It was obvious to me that he was town. I am sure many people didn't like his entry to the game; however, as pointed out by Clidd, it was consistent with his other games. Him being open on playing his alt is also indicative of having nothing to hide. If he was scum, hiding his alt may have subconsciously played into his behavior. I don't see how people thought he was LOCK-scum at all.

Lol... How was he obv town?

He was Null as.

You saying he was obv town is scummy as

I explained using meta why he was lock-town, i doub you didn't understand that.

just happened to see this post so I might as well say something about it
meta isn't that useful without something else to complement it. I know from past experience that meta shouldn't be the sole reason someone is towny/scummy. (although I do feel like meta is more useful for defense than attack).

I remember getting hanged day 1 in my second game of forum mafia simply for "not following town meta" and I was town. It was quite frustrating. The people who voted me were also mostly townies.
The way I look at it, people play differently depending on the situation.

Yes, but meta helps a lot, you can't ignore that. If you was hammered unfairly, you must understand how I feel about Maduisha's behavior.

[clidd]

72offsuit

hammer yourself then, if you flip

green

im the first to being lynched tomorrow.

[clidd]

He won't, the extent of his bluffing is over.

[clidd]

See ?

[clidd]

I never thought anyone would be able to dig such a deep wormhole.

[clidd]

i'm gonna do an ISO on 72offsuit later cuz he needs to be looked at

No need, just vote them

No cuz that's dumb. We already saw what it was like to end the day super quickly on day 1.
While I do kind of find something weird with 72offsuit I'll have to take a closer look.
I'm in favor of a maduisha hang right now.

Also guys I'm being serious don't hammer this quickly. I swear if we repeat that phi incident we're gonna be doing scum a great favor.

Who is scum to you, General Wu ? Maduisha ? why are you ignoring

72

all day 1 and 2 ?

[clidd]

Admit it, you lost.

[clidd]

Checkmate.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

OldMapleNostalgia

, you just need to trust me here, the game seems simple right now. I got both

scums

in my PoE.

[clidd]

72offsuit

refused to be lynched, because we would know his partner by association. He could've get me lynched tomorrow (if im confirmed scum in his pov).

[clidd]

Look how

General

and

72

started to complain together, pulling lynches in opposite directions. So far the

General

has not responded to the SR of

72

because they are partners.

[clidd]

I don't sleep until this case is resolved.

[clidd]

OldMapleNostalgia

, you just need to trust me here, the game seems simple right now. I got both

scums

in my PoE.

OMN, clidd's POE is garbage.

Just go with your gut. You are the clear. Rest of town will sheep your decision for the lynch, if its me, then so be it.

Just comb through the day and arrive at your decision

Vote yourself then. Im glad to being LYNCHED tomorrow if you flip green (which i know you won't).

[clidd]

So far you have only insulted my reasoning, but you refuse to leave the bluff area. I'm asking you to take a position, and you chicken out by running away from hammer.

[clidd]

Clidd shut up. Im not 100 percent on you being scum.
You could easily just be fail town.

''Fail town'', really ? a fail town take 4 hours to make a initial post ?

[clidd]

You won't flip green.

[clidd]

Can you guys explain why 72 is a better lynch than Madu, why doesn't anyone else think Madu is scum-lock? Sorry I wasn't fully following the thread.

Madu is bad town.

[clidd]

72 refused to cooperate and it's making things a lot more difficult than it should be.

[clidd]

Do NOT hammer before JV has posted his solve for IF im lynched and consequently flip green

You won't flip green.

Spoiler:

[clidd]

[quote="In post 588, 72offsuit"][/quote]

1. Ignored half of my posts;
2. Repeat the same "garbage" litany without having to 1v1 me;
3. Hard tunnel on partner;
4. Fake reactions;
5. Bad liar;

[clidd]

Spoiler:

[clidd]

Good game.

[clidd]

I was waiting for Karnage to open for us to comment, but I believe he will not care about those comments.

[clidd]

Exceptional performance, GeneralWu. It was a hemorrhagic pleasure to have you in the game.

[clidd]

Jackson and Maduisha played their roles well too. I'm surprised that we won.

[clidd]

I like to think that if it weren't for PoE logic, I would never find GeneralWu scummy. I am scared by the perfect emulation.

[clidd]

Injustice 2 was my first real fighting game I played consistently, and enjoyed, and while I can’t compare with anything else, I think it’s a great game for people who are new to the genre, just due to the sheer helpfulness of the tutorials.