Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

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For Hectic's birthday he misspelled my name and got me my role PM towards the end of my window for reading

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Ok I might read this game now but I'm going to take one shot every time Hectic posted and it wasn't a VC, every time anyone mentions masons, and one shot any time CheekyTeeky says something that doesn't make sense to me.

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Welcome to the most fun Mafia setup that there is. I'm Klick, the Mason. My partners can reveal if they wish.

VOTE: Alduskkel
Rebellion was flawed and far worse than the original series, but still definitely worth watching

oh god my poor liver it is going to need mercy isn't it

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Mason mindgames are antitown

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Hello everybody, my name is Y'shtola Rhul. I am here as an observer and a scholar to the art of mafia.

I will be on standby if needed.

actually you're here as a player so you should be scumhunting not standing by

unless you're scum in which case feel free to stand by until we get around to lynching you

This is a scummy post since it should be somewhat intuitive that a "hiding strategy" for masons is almost as dominant as active scumhunting from the symmetry of the setup.

Klique**

Spoiler: not klique

RVS Award for

Of Course They Were VT

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Mafia, I'm your traitor. Don't kill me please.

policy daykill: Kokichi Oma

All kinds of shots huh

Why so? If I saw someone try to pull off that kind of gambit, I'd want to townread them as well.

Mindmelding with how Klick responds in the following post, about how this is dissonant.
This is implies a confession that getting townread was as much motivation as humor, which is scum indicative, although town also wants to survive.

TSE, did you roll scum again?

Huh I don't remember you being in B4M.

Ok Chemist, hopefully no one catches we’re masons this soon.

I’d agree that Egix could be scum this game

.

Open queue in a nutshell

At least this game has a moderator tho
You feel that Hectic the more I expect out of you the more you are forced to deliver
You are going to be the first Open Queue mod I've had that doesn't trigger their own forcereplace conditions you hear me?

It's not clear to me that the read isn't serious. But also, the read can't be both serious and memeing.
It's ambiguous and I'd like to hear what TSE has to say about it. I can see your logic but I'm not convinced it's where town!TSE would go in their logic.

I really disagree in that I feel the shebang is townie for TSE and scummy for Auro. Or null for TSE and I was townreading him from something earlier. I can only be so organized ok. You keep triggering shots.

I'll hit the post button here but keep going

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AURO I WASN'T THAT FAR YET AND IT DOES MAKE ME FEEL WAY BETTER OK
NOT ALL OF US HAVE "WASN'T WOTM'D BY HECTIC THE FIRST TIME" PRIVILEGE I'M CATCHING UP

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I HAVE MORE IT'S IN MY CLIP BOARD

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VOTE: TSE

I’m not buying your Auro town read. Anyone could have easily said what Auro said regardless of alignment.

Auro, in post 85 you defended TSE by saying you thought TSE was just memeing, but post 90 makes it clear that’s not the case. Does this change your read at all?

Hm opposite of my take again, do I reconsider, or do I post the principal skinner meme and tinfoil an Alduskkel/Auro/Klick team?

Hello everybody, my name is Y'shtola Rhul. I am here as an observer and a scholar to the art of mafia.

I will be on standby if needed.

Awkward tone.

All three shot types confirmed darn it all

May I ask why you Town read Klick?

As a side note, I think a lot of RVS posts end up seeming awkward, town or scum. Rhul's RVS post was probably decided before gamestart.

This seems like a biased viewpoint, to me the post seemed tailored to match the tempo of the posts surrounding it and didn't see planned pregame.
_______
I really like the thought process in Alduskkel'spost 140, Alduskkel"] and it seems townier than his towngame. The conspiracy theory wasn't obvious to me and seems like town paranoia.

VoteCount 1.5

RVS Award for

I'm Very Concerned Right Now

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mod: can i play w/o reading my role card?

No.

dang, ok i read it ready to go

Mafiascum trigger the player who triggered the necessity of this rule was named Quagmire and was disliked for unrelated reasons in some contexts.

Hi. I'm Miss Lynch. I exclusively play in MafTiger in protest for how terrible it is. Did you know that there are several buttons that are completely invisible in MafTiger, and some (like the Q+ button) simply do not exist at all?

VOTE: alskadel

I thought you were an alt when I was skimming D&D but now you're definitely an alt.

Cheeky, can you quote some of TSE's posts that you think are out of his scumrange?

I felt that way about post 23 although I'm basing an idea of his scumplay off of one towngame so it's sketchy.
If you feel like citing post 23 as out of scumrange is either dumb or diminutive of the player's scumrange that is probably how you should feel.

popsof

s

ctown replaces rb!

Oh hey the latter pages are more uneventful and I am caught up without lots more comment? Unfortunately this triggers shot thooooooooooooo

For Hectic's birthday he misspelled my name and got me my role PM towards the end of my window for reading

Yay! Hi!

Thoughts on Auro?

He's climbed up to closer to null by the time I got to this point but I think he'd be in the list of people I would kill gun-to-head. But below slots like Homura or woodchuck, moreso because I don't anticipate future readability rather than them being much different from a tie for me.

My play might not match your expectations of my townplay, by the way - I'm a lot less serious about this game

I draft this post like a jillion times when I roll scum and backspace it so my heart feels concern.

I'm townreading a lot of the active posters, primarily.
Homura is coasting on the TSE attack.
Miss Lynch's opening posts are scummy, she "skims" the game and votes Aldusskel without any explanation.

My play might not match your expectations of my townplay, by the way - I'm a lot less serious about this game

What's scummy about that? Solid reasoning for Alk has already been given, I don't like how you're trying to frame "skimming the game" as something scummy to do.

It's not townie to do, if you're on my team could you pretty please read the short thread word by word? I'm doing that. In fairness I am not reaching that level of tryhard where I do that fully sober, but I am at least at minimum doing it. I release you from doing it sober. I release Hectic from posting votecounts sober.

Mason mason mason.

I hate you.

Solid reasoning for Alk has already been given

You're the only vote on Alk. Maybe I missed it, where's the "solid reasoning for Alk"? Quote please.

Several players have acted outside the bounds of solid, consistently town play and have solid reasons for suspicion, but none of them seem to catch your eye at all.

Lot of words in your posts but little reasoning. Maybe show me the "solid reasons for suspicion"? Who are these several players?

This is goodposting could you please most fully depart null in one direction or the other please

This is a scummy post since it should be somewhat intuitive that a "hiding strategy" for masons is almost as dominant as active scumhunting from the symmetry of the setup.

well then by that logic shouldn't every player be trying to hide? VTs to look like masons, masons to avoid getting shot, scum to look town, etc.?

That's irrelevant in terms of reading you because most of the time people think in 0-1 wine swaps, and you're positing 2+ wine swap logic, and the behavior from you I'm examining is a pretty off the cuff thing, not like, a claim in a dethy setup or something.
I liked one of your later posts so you gained some ground anyway, though.

Proposal/question: should we be posting townreads at all in this setup? Maybe we should only bring them up at L-1?

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I said trigger instead of trivia because I'm drunk and I hope that is the only notpreviewediting to do

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I interpreted as you have a high rate of getting scumread (as both alignment)s in open games, since you were scumread last we played together (and you were scum so like maybe you do rand scum a lot in opens!)

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you have a scummy towntone to me auro

but most people think i have a scummy towntone we could start a support group

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Egix, who do you scumread?

Auro, are you buddying me?

pedit: can I get in on this support group

No because I'm the capricious Duchess and I don't personally scumread your towntone.

CheekyTeeky is out too because I only scumread her towntactics.

Chemist1422 is invited to submit an application.

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Proposal/question: should we be posting townreads at all in this setup? Maybe we should only bring them up at L-1?

I was thinking about this earlier. Posting townreads shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't clearly bucket them into "strong" and "weak" townreads IMO.

I think this makes sense
and I think people should pay attention to this thought
MISS LYNCH MISS LYNCH MISS LYNCH

COUNTRY MUSIC SUCKS??

I don't mean it but idk you're skimming techniques.

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you have a scummy towntone to me auro

And I have a towny scumtone apparently. I'm honestly curious about *why* people find my tone scummy - is this something you can detail? Post-game if not now.

The term 'tone' almost inherently mostly refers to qualities that are ineffable. (if you haven't heard that "twenty dollar word" it's a really good one I recommend using.)
Here's an off the top of my head characterization: A feeling like you say the minimum amount you think sufficient to persuade the person, and then stop there, when you think it is plenty enough to persuade.

While entirely rational, it suggests a lack of passion and that every word is calculated.

It is qualitatively different from someone who constantly posts less than needs to be said, that definitely exists in forum mafia *feigned coughing*.

There's probably much better I could figure out but like I said it's the very thing that's naturally hard to describe.

I did mostly not get very bloodthirsty for your slot in white flag but it was mostly wagonomics, you learn the wisdom to quickly override your tonereads like year 0.71 of a mafia career.

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was Thor playing in late 2018/early 2019, was I really barely late in my return

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Proposal/question: should we be posting townreads at all in this setup? Maybe we should only bring them up at L-1?

I was thinking about this earlier. Posting townreads shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't clearly bucket them into "strong" and "weak" townreads IMO.

I think this makes sense
and I think people should pay attention to this thought
MISS LYNCH MISS LYNCH MISS LYNCH

COUNTRY MUSIC SUCKS??

I don't mean it but idk you're skimming techniques.

I'm not certain what you're saying here.

==============

I have read the thread at this point, BTW. This morning I was a bit short on time and I read a couple pages, but skimmed others. Prior to responding to anyone tonight, however, I had read the entire thread. I wasn't expecting everyone to make a deal out of the way I informed everyone I was caught up on the current events if my responses displayed an understanding. I was wrong.

Browbeating other players into efforting benefits the wincon Hectic gave me 12 hours ago sry about the collateral damage Miss

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not very, I lied about doing shots, I only have wine, though I have different plans soon and later for reasons

I took a swig per trigger but that's not particularly meaningful

I'm like ok but I did substitute a word for another word that I wouldn't normally do so that's cool

I think I skipped a lot of the mason rule triggers there were so many it just became like the air around me I guess that should have emptied the bottle

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A feeling like you say the minimum amount you think sufficient to persuade the person, and then stop there, when you think it is plenty enough to persuade.

I've come to realize that saying a lot isn't really much more effective than saying a little. And I seem to attract many players who fit whatever I say into some scum agenda and make countless misrepresentations of my play. Attacks on me do help sort people but it's tiring.

If you do think I'm saying too little about something, feel free to ask? I won't hesitate to detail my thoughts in most cases.

That's fundamentally irrelevant to a "tone" read, the pithiness of a post and the "style" of its pithiness will stand alone in that regard.

It is a separate matter that I will give you every effort to help me sort you as accurately as I can.

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Additionally, I think explanations for votes are overrated and used far more often than warranted. While it's possible, even likely, that we don't see eye-to-eye on this matter, thinking that it's scummy seems to be a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

Finally, I think it's pretty scummy that of the players in the game right now, the only two you can really list as possibly scummy are Homura and me. Several players have acted outside the bounds of solid, consistently town play and have solid reasons for suspicion, but none of them seem to catch your eye at all.

Which players fit this criteria?

How do you feel about being <my townread that is definitionally tied with all other townreads I have>

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Also, while I'd *love* to talk about White Flag, mods said to treat it as an ongoing game, so ugh.

I want to alt-hunt Rhul. Hmm.

Micc nommed the Open for a scummy and then said you can discuss the completed games as long as you don't discuss team dynamics
I'm like, meh about Team Mafia as a general concept itself, (which may or may not be sour grapes at my -individual- loss) so am probably gonna say whatever, feel free to refuse to respond or report my posts and try to get me banned etc.
Kinda am not vibing with watching the mod nom a townie for an award for using verbal abuse to scumhunt and make the scum more readable and then turn around and respect a gag order about the event but that's just drunkpops

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i want to believe yshtola is a main because viera are beautiful

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Ankamius shares my love of viera so there's alt equity there though

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Auro I didn't say I should believe
I said I want to believe
don't hurt me

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Not a player in this game.
Evaluating the strength of Auro's play in White Flag is complex but the sportsmanship his sportsmanship in WhiteFlag is plainly 10/10

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Hm I think I would not townread yshtola if I really thought she was a main

If hecticgenie grants my wish that she is a main against literally all indications and reason she would not be townread she would be HYPERTOWNREAD HER
(but more seriously my townread of her is based on my idea of how an alt would approach this game)

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alduskkell you are getting precipitously close from jumping from null to DEFINITIONALLY TIED WITH MY OTHER TOWNREADS

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Hm I think I would not townread yshtola if I really thought she was a main

If hecticgenie grants my wish that she is a main against literally all indications and reason she would not be townread she would be HYPERTOWNREAD HER
(but more seriously my townread of her is based on my idea of how an alt would approach this game)

What is your idea of how an alt would approach this game?

be more cautious and slow on the trigger and exploit meta to get generally accurate reads because all of you are almost as bad as smurfs ALL OF YOU
but also your weird nai initial post becomes a seasoned cynicism worthy of its own threadvisit rather than a genuine visit to the thread and attempt to contribute with a joke and a read drafted and the read backspaced out because it might be scummy (the word joke used lightly here it was more like a poetry/irony thing? idk)

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cheeky why didn't you comment on my auro read
I need to get back onto your whitelist so i don't have to replace into games to play with you

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Can you please post something outside of Ankrange so I can stop wondering

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Hm I think I would not townread yshtola if I really thought she was a main

If hecticgenie grants my wish that she is a main against literally all indications and reason she would not be townread she would be HYPERTOWNREAD HER
(but more seriously my townread of her is based on my idea of how an alt would approach this game)

What is your idea of how an alt would approach this game?

be more cautious and slow on the trigger and exploit meta to get generally accurate reads because all of you are almost as bad as smurfs ALL OF YOU
but also your weird nai initial post becomes a seasoned cynicism worthy of its own threadvisit rather than a genuine visit to the thread and attempt to contribute with a joke and a read drafted and the read backspaced out because it might be scummy (the word joke used lightly here it was more like a poetry/irony thing? idk)

I think it's polite to introduce yourself to a group of people that don't know you when you first meet them. Is this wrong?

It's kind of about the way you tied you account gimmick to the fact you were beginning a mafia game
It my hinge somewhat on my apprehension or misapprehension of yshtola though.
Because I haven't played her source FF game, I only have seen her card in Puzzles and Dragons, and it has no attack stats but lots of abilities which makes me think it's probably scholarly.
But like if that's inaccurate it could change things the Liliana card in PAD has a low healing stat and that's definitely wrong they just usually get it right
Why must my every mafia game include the totality of my life experiences

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Egix, who do you scumread?

Auro, are you buddying me?

pedit: can I get in on this support group

Auro/Aldu not SvS.

yeah but you already knew that since all 3 of us are masons

This style is gonna make you harder to sort than boring straightlace style
but like I guess if you have fun that's what matters to some extent?
drunkpops says your avatar reminds me of the sun in Super Mario Bros 3 which is an unkillable enemy that menaces you until you complete a long level and it always makes me want to scumread you even though it is an inherently positive image life is hard i have always wanted to tell you this thing

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woodchuck scumvibed all of posts enough that I would like to vote him the most.
I feel Auro's "the actives are town" to some extent and there's likely a scum lurking in there but flipping the less-actives first could aim the accuracy within there.

I am conflicted on Auro and don't have a verdict right now but my natural inclination as an 08er is not to desire to murderlate the people who will produce either readable comment or comment I can kick myself for misreading so like I am not in the caring about him I care more about telling you that yshtola might not create more readable comment but is still <tied with all my other townreads> and stuff



Alduskkel I assumed you didn't play SM3 because I assumed if you played that game and had a soul you would never want to associate yourself with the sun ever again.

ancient pharoah akhenaton and pharoah tutankhamen get a pass for living before the NES but also maybe the wheel(?) was invented

after identifying with the thing that mad me game over several times do you go to your backyard and cut the limbs off of grasshoppers 1 by 1 please let me know
pedit: jk not gonna read these 2 posts

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what does my decision to post without reading the 2 posts that popped up in my preview have to do with your "form"?

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Hm I think I would not townread yshtola if I really thought she was a main

If hecticgenie grants my wish that she is a main against literally all indications and reason she would not be townread she would be HYPERTOWNREAD HER
(but more seriously my townread of her is based on my idea of how an alt would approach this game)

What is your idea of how an alt would approach this game?

be more cautious and slow on the trigger and exploit meta to get generally accurate reads because all of you are almost as bad as smurfs ALL OF YOU
but also your weird nai initial post becomes a seasoned cynicism worthy of its own threadvisit rather than a genuine visit to the thread and attempt to contribute with a joke and a read drafted and the read backspaced out because it might be scummy (the word joke used lightly here it was more like a poetry/irony thing? idk)

I think it's polite to introduce yourself to a group of people that don't know you when you first meet them. Is this wrong?

It's kind of about the way you tied you account gimmick to the fact you were beginning a mafia game
It my hinge somewhat on my apprehension or misapprehension of yshtola though.
Because I haven't played her source FF game, I only have seen her card in Puzzles and Dragons, and it has no attack stats but lots of abilities which makes me think it's probably scholarly.
But like if that's inaccurate it could change things the Liliana card in PAD has a low healing stat and that's definitely wrong they just usually get it right
Why must my every mafia game include the totality of my life experiences

Do you believe that I'm lying about myself?

I am not aware of any post where you have claimed whether to be a main or an alt.
Claiming to be yshtola isn't necessarily claiming to be a main, I claim that I am Scholarship Student Isis but that's not what my account name says.

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I think the Alduskel vs. Miss Lynch interaction has an SvT look and I hope soberpops can sort which side when she is done chastising drunkpops's staying up late

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@Auro: I think Miss Lynch was conceived to play D&D mafia and the sig seems to imply she rolled scum that game

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but like Scholarship Student Isis didn't exist when I joined mafiascum but I lover her now :/

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I think the Alduskel vs. Miss Lynch interaction has an SvT look and I hope soberpops can sort which side when she is done chastising drunkpops's staying up late

nah we're both masons, this is an elaborate distancing tactic


pedit: D&D mafia?

chkflip ran some 40p theme game with a cult themed on D&D. the game title wasn't D&D i can't remember what it was.

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Miss Lynch why did you decide to play multiple games on the same alt instead of making a new one?

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but like Scholarship Student Isis didn't exist when I joined mafiascum but I lover her now :/

I'm confused on what you mean by this.

If this is your first account, you joined in 2020, and yshtola was a character that existed that you could theme your account around, and both your username and avatar reflect that.

I joined in 2008, and my avatar, Scholarship Student Isis, was conceived in ~2015-16, so I couldn't possibly have picked her as a name, but I can now set her as an avatar, that is what my avatar is <-

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Miss Lynch stop straying out of Ankrange when what I really need is for Yshtola to get out of Ankrange


aside from like not knowing how much Ank would be willing to mess with my mind about lying about her alts

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I never thought you were Ank, sry don't be butthurt Cephrir/maybenotCephrir

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but like Scholarship Student Isis didn't exist when I joined mafiascum but I lover her now :/

I'm confused on what you mean by this.

If this is your first account, you joined in 2020, and yshtola was a character that existed that you could theme your account around, and both your username and avatar reflect that.

I joined in 2008, and my avatar, Scholarship Student Isis, was conceived in ~2015-16, so I couldn't possibly have picked her as a name, but I can now set her as an avatar, that is what my avatar is <-

I'm confused what this has to do with your prior questioning.

Do you believe that I am not Y'shtola Rhul because I named myself Y'shtola Rhul?

Uh
I'm not sure whether this is the first mafiascum account of the human behind the keyboard
If this is your first mafiascum account you are Y'Shtola Rhul.
If you are Ankamius who has also made an extra mafiascum account and named it Y'shtola Rhul, you would still sure be Y'shtola Rhul, you would just also be the same human as Ank.
I don't think you are potentially a viera at a keyboard the way I might have back when I believed Santa might bring me a "real live Yoshi", but that is unambiguously a defect of character on my part and an inferiority compared to what I once was.

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but like Scholarship Student Isis didn't exist when I joined mafiascum but I lover her now :/

I'm confused on what you mean by this.

If this is your first account, you joined in 2020, and yshtola was a character that existed that you could theme your account around, and both your username and avatar reflect that.

I joined in 2008, and my avatar, Scholarship Student Isis, was conceived in ~2015-16, so I couldn't possibly have picked her as a name, but I can now set her as an avatar, that is what my avatar is <-

I'm confused what this has to do with your prior questioning.

Do you believe that I am not Y'shtola Rhul because I named myself Y'shtola Rhul?

Uh
I'm not sure whether this is the first mafiascum account of the human behind the keyboard
If this is your first mafiascum account you are Y'Shtola Rhul.
If you are Ankamius who has also made an extra mafiascum account and named it Y'shtola Rhul, you would still sure be Y'shtola Rhul, you would just also be the same human as Ank.
I don't think you are potentially a viera at a keyboard the way I might have back when I believed Santa might bring me a "real live Yoshi", but that is unambiguously a defect of character on my part and an inferiority compared to what I once was.

Ah, there's the misunderstanding.

I am, in fact, not a Viera. I am a Mi'qote, specifically a Seeker of the Sun. I apologize for not realizing the mixup before, but hopefully this clears up the misunderstanding.

If you would prefer to talk to a Viera, I can see if Lyna is willing to speak to you? She's rather busy, so I wouldn't set the bar too highly for your expectations.

I like
am not even mad anymore
Ok I only played FFTA and FFTA2 where the nonhuman female-only races are all viera except for the ones with super obvious flight, so I mistook you for Viera
And I doesn't know any M'iqote lore stuff so please bring me vieras so I can reminisce about how awesome a life crossroads of being a doublecasting mage or an assassin is as a win/win life outlook.

but like I guess more importantly please help me decide if you are town in this game
maybe chide me into drinking less
thanks in advance

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but like Scholarship Student Isis didn't exist when I joined mafiascum but I lover her now :/

I'm confused on what you mean by this.

If this is your first account, you joined in 2020, and yshtola was a character that existed that you could theme your account around, and both your username and avatar reflect that.

I joined in 2008, and my avatar, Scholarship Student Isis, was conceived in ~2015-16, so I couldn't possibly have picked her as a name, but I can now set her as an avatar, that is what my avatar is <-

I'm confused what this has to do with your prior questioning.

Do you believe that I am not Y'shtola Rhul because I named myself Y'shtola Rhul?

Uh
I'm not sure whether this is the first mafiascum account of the human behind the keyboard
If this is your first mafiascum account you are Y'Shtola Rhul.
If you are Ankamius who has also made an extra mafiascum account and named it Y'shtola Rhul, you would still sure be Y'shtola Rhul, you would just also be the same human as Ank.
I don't think you are potentially a viera at a keyboard the way I might have back when I believed Santa might bring me a "real live Yoshi", but that is unambiguously a defect of character on my part and an inferiority compared to what I once was.

Ah, there's the misunderstanding.

I am, in fact, not a Viera. I am a Mi'qote, specifically a Seeker of the Sun. I apologize for not realizing the mixup before, but hopefully this clears up the misunderstanding.

If you would prefer to talk to a Viera, I can see if Lyna is willing to speak to you? She's rather busy, so I wouldn't set the bar too highly for your expectations.

I like
am not even mad anymore
Ok I only played FFTA and FFTA2 where the nonhuman female-only races are all viera except for the ones with super obvious flight, so I mistook you for Viera
And I doesn't know any M'iqote lore stuff so please bring me vieras so I can reminisce about how awesome a life crossroads of being a doublecasting mage or an assassin is as a win/win life outlook.

but like I guess more importantly please help me decide if you are town in this game
maybe chide me into drinking less
thanks in advance

I understand, Vieras are rather pretty from what I've been told and I'm flattered that you would mistake me as one.

Do you believe in my purpose? Whether I am among those that are searching for the truth or merely obscuring it, it depends mostly on your interpretation of that premise.

Yes. Identifying those with aether makes sense if you also have aether, since this world provides no means for secret attacks on them. You would also do this if you were obscuring the truth, though, as it gives an explanation for how you've spent your time.

If I trust your claims of who has aether and do not slay them, though, it is hard for me to learn if they were all your secret evil friends all along. Which is why I will need for you to explain your methods to me

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is roleplaying really necessary

I can't tell if the 3 players you named are your townreads or scumreads

This is a really scummy post

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Finally, I think it's pretty scummy that of the players in the game right now, the only two you can really list as possibly scummy are Homura and me. Several players have acted outside the bounds of solid, consistently town play and have solid reasons for suspicion, but none of them seem to catch your eye at all.

Up until this post the only scumread you've expressed is Alduskkel.

Hypocrisy Is Not A Scumtell

[popsofctown]

I find myself skimming over most of Egix's posts without being able to commit much critical thinking to them. I've found in the past that that slot is scum >rand for me.

Do you mean that whenever you feel that way about a slot, that slot is scum, or that Egix's slot is usually >rand scum?

[popsofctown]

why

As town I was happy it was content even though I wasn't positive what aether meant (but I'm mostly sure it means town-aligned).
As scum there is more ability to be "righteously indignant" about the obfuscation.

Also my 1/1 sample size on people complaining about gimmick account self imposed post restrictions is 100% scum.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Alduskkel
Don't like this silly closed-fist-raccoon-trap thing Alduskkel did with Egix, either
I don't think Aldi is town

[popsofctown]

Back a couple centuries when racoon pelts were very valuable there was a kind of trap trappers would make for raccoons that is cheaper/easier to make than a classic metal pressure-triggered closing metal trap. It was a box with a hole in it exactly the diameter of a racoon's wrist, with a tiny bit of food in it. There was no other mechanism at all. The racoon would smell the food, find the trap, and reach in to grab the piece of food. But when the racoon closes his or her fist around the food, the fist becomes wider than its unclenched hand was, so even though it was able to enter the trap, the racoon cannot pull its fist to its mouth to eat the food.
The racoon becomes unable to leave. Something at least as intelligent as an ape would pretty likely open its fist and pull its hand out and pursue other ways of spending its life. But the racoons simplistic brain refuses to consider unclenching its fist, which is holding FOOD, the most exciting thing ever, for hours and hours and hours. There is naturally nothing lethal about this trap, so the hunter must check on it at regular intervals to execute the racoon, generally with a gun but maybe with a trained dog.

I feel like its fallacious to have particularly strong reads in this game state, so I feel like Egix was set up to fail

[popsofctown]

Okay, you got me pops. The truth is I don't have a very strong scumread on Egix. I wanted to act like it was (and, ideally, create a wagon) in order to pressure the slot into giving more AI information.

Why do you scumread pops, Auro?

Stop it I am trying to aggregate a confident scumread somewhere

[popsofctown]

I'm more interested in why you "wish you were not" scumreading me. Why would it be preferable not to be scumreading me? If you subscribe the magazines that overrate my scumgame I'd think it'd be relieving that it could be correct play to murderlate me and not have to try to read me anymore. If you subscribe to the magazines that overrate my townplay, there aren't really any, I don't think anyone has ever bemoaned a lack of sorting power when I've died in any game.
I admitted to scumreading you when you were town, too.

So why that framing Auro?

[popsofctown]

Pops, do you townread all of {Suji, Egix, ML}?
I know you said it seems like Egix is "set up to fail", what does that mean?

Any way Egix responded to Alduskkel for a gamestate summary of a game with 4 scum and 4 masons is probably going to look underwhelming. Then, Alduskkel calls it underwhelming.

Suji has posted very little and I don't have a read. I think I would sort ML towards town. Egix has posted a lot more than Suji but it seemed very NAI to me, the extent to which I think he's town is concern about the legitimacy of both Alduskkel's and Klick's attacks.

[popsofctown]

I dislike having to push you.

Aren't you going to have to push someone? What's bad about pushing me and particular? I don't think I have a history of gross L-1 AtEs or something.

[popsofctown]

I don't feel satisfied by your answer. I rarely would say "I wish I wasn't scumreading X", and all the times I do there is something unique about X and Auro is saying there isn't actually anything unique. That leaves me closer to "poor towngame emulation".

[popsofctown]

Auro's seriousface:joke ratio is always 9:1 and this game hasn't been an exception, woodchuck's criticism seems bizarre. I think I've been way fluffier.

Setting aside whether it would be AI

[popsofctown]

I've never said that yet as town.

So you debuted it about a player you have no completed games with? That's what's weird to me. Did you secret alt a game with me? You played 1 day phase as a third of a slot in a large, and that's it.

[popsofctown]

I didn't pedit

[popsofctown]

There is something unique about wishing *you* would be town? You're a competent townplayer and you've stated in the past you have way more fun as town while disguising it as scum, and I don't think we were town alongside before.

I don't remember stating that some place you'd see it.
If you think I'm good at town that helps and makes sense and you should lead with that instead of "me no like push"

We were both town in StarCraft 2 large theme.

[popsofctown]

I think post 380 is meant to mean that the 3 people listed are town

[popsofctown]

I think I'm starting like Sujimichi. I'm not sure whether I'm right on Auro and Alduskkel but reinventing the wheel on seeing them as aligned makes sense to me and I think I understand why she is reading Y'shtola different from me.

pedit:
Warriors of light or sin eaters means masons or VTs, is what I thought. Sin eaters are still some type of good guy, once they're done doing their thing there's less "sin" lying around, I figure.

[popsofctown]

An interpretation where Y'shtola has announced that she is not going to be sorting at any point this game seems too absurd to be tenable for either alignment, that kind of post would always need to be accompanied with a selfvote??

[popsofctown]

Maybe her read changed in the intervening 13 posts before 394?
Maybe I am WKing scum idk

[popsofctown]

I don't think we are establishing more than that Y'shtola is an enigma, I don't try to d1 lynch enigmas

[popsofctown]

Pointing out which players have readable content is the most useless thing ever?

This is getting a tad frustrating

[popsofctown]

Redacting associations was a mini townslip.
Her readslist is resonant if I reconsider Yshtola which I potentially should, like I said.
Not much more to it. There's room for her to be scum. I don't know if Suji scum would want to pocket me or not. Sujimichi is a very special player.

[popsofctown]

Sujimichi is a being of unspeakable power and wisdom and her faction will probably win whichever it is.

[popsofctown]

She's better at mafia than I

[popsofctown]

If you are scum and she isn't you should be very crestfallen that she has replaced in

[popsofctown]

I got the same feeling sometimes, composing posts and wondering if they are anti-masonic. It's not necessarily the truth of things but it's a FEEEEELING

[popsofctown]

I give up but I am gonna post a pretty picture

Spoiler:

[popsofctown]

I am so disappoint

[popsofctown]

It's been antitown, but I'm not intentionally sabotaging the gamestate. I usually like gimmick alts

[popsofctown]

I'm rereading some.

So far Klick looks better and Chemist looks worse compared to how I felt before.

Cheeky, do you have a read on Chemist? You talked about him a lot at one point without giving a verdict.
You seem scummy to me so far, as usual :/ Not sure how to work around the double headed coin I get with you but I will try

[popsofctown]

She's either on my team and has the same exact chance of winning I do, or on the other team and depriving me of a good partner and also making for a tough opponent.

The average of those two possibilities are her winning more games.

I read the question fine, I just don't sprinkle "if this, if this" across all my posts until their cumbersome for the sake of being technically correct.

[popsofctown]

Also pops
What have you done so far in this game, if anything, that you wouldn't do as scum?
I realise this is a self-meta question and some people hate that but humor me pls :3

Auro is wrong, selfmeta is awful.
I wouldn't have drunkposted as much as I did. I only drunkposted once as scum last year, and it was a rather deliberate "I actually think this might throw away this game for me but I can't have this become a trust tell for me" but there were times I put posting off because it was a scumgame and I think there is slip risk. In the right context I would still catch up on the game but this will be one of those dumber unverifiable elements of selfmeta, I had a new deck idea I wanted to try in Legends of Runeterra and I like playing Legends of Runeterra with a drink but I actually had to put off trying it any that evening because this was a game I needed to solve. As scum I would have just caught up the next day. As scum sick and tired of playing Hecarim again because I can't think of anything better maybe I push the boundaries of how much I dare to drunkpost, maybe I still don't and watch youtube, it'd be harder for me to guess.

I think I also would not have approached this game as slowly as I have as scum, I think I'd have come up with a mislynch informercial or be bussing a partner for cred by now. On that note, Alduskkel did something that made me want to UNVOTE: . Sorry Sujimichi

[popsofctown]

104 - I find it a little bit odd that Klick seemed openly indifferent towards the Teeky wagon although TSE, whom Klick was voting at the time, was on there. I feel as though Klick would be more opposed to the wagon in that case.

I'm confused by this point. Could you explain it in a different way?

I think I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

It's like this:
> You are voting TSE
> TSE is voting CheekyTeeky
> So unless you think that TSE is bussing, then that implies Cheeky is a mislynch
> You say: "I will admire this wagon from a distance."
> Instead of, perhaps, "Nah, I'm not voting that, not while TSE's on there."

The problem is that I now realise I had the order of events mixed up a bit - TSE actually voted Cheeky before you voted TSE, not the other way around as I previously thought.

On my reread I noticed that Klick was townread Y'shtola on this wagon, so while I was partial to your idea the first time that fact check made me think his halfsies position made more sense

[popsofctown]

I kind of would rather not answer because it might be kind of associative.

It's not lock and key, I still might revisit the slot, and I promise to be transparent on everything else that ends up on the scales of justice. I just, don't feel as confident right this second.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[popsofctown]

I would say Auro is more likely to be mafia. But I'm not highly confident. If Hectic told me I needed to vote scum in my next post or I lose the game I would probably pick woodchuck but I've been letting that slot skate on the thinking that starting a nightless off with a lurker lynch isn't great for the dayplay.

[popsofctown]

Wait Miss Lynch did you watch Fringe

that show has a schtick about calling someone whose name starts with an "A" a different name every time
I just now made the connection because Asterisk is one of the botched names that was used.

[popsofctown]

His name is Aten, it's easy to remember because that's the god of the sun and that's his avatar

[popsofctown]

pls no self meta

I have no idea how many times I've said that as town nor said it as scum

I see other players use the phrase lots, they just say "gun to head" which is equivalent.

[popsofctown]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11195423, as town, similarly evoking the concept of immediacy that contrasts with the amount of immediacy I actually want. Vaguely remembered this and decided to search "dayvig"

There were also instances of me using the concept as scum. I think it's NAI for me.

[popsofctown]

@Pops you were explicitly asked that question in your citation, so the context differs from here - where you offered it unprompted to a question of who's more likely mafia

I'll just mark this for a later look if I have the energy to do so

This is ridiculously inductive and like I don't think you think this. You're not even feigning linking this to my win condition, and it's sketchy as all get out that you're waiting to see how other players react to this angle before you double down on it by "looking into it", which isn't actually possible, there's no way you'd have copious time to read all of my games ever and investigate other places I have or haven't done this before.
You've been extremely political about my slot all game, saying I'm scummy and telegraphing it's a shame that you will have to push me at an undisclosed point in the future <when my lynch seems easy> and you have been shyer in direct proportion to people like Sujimichi replacing in and not joining the scumread rather than seeming to adjust based on my play.

VOTE: Auro

[popsofctown]

If I mentioned Legends of Runeterra in 3 scum games and 0 town games would you say that it's a scumtell?

I'm a believer in statistics but in stats class they told us the bare minimum rule of thumb for a sampling process to at least somewhat have statistical significance was n=30, and I really doubt you'll get 30 samples.

[popsofctown]

In game I am mad at you but "what time is it now in Calcutta google" says half past midnight so I don't wanna ruin your sleep

I will fighto later

[popsofctown]

Miss Lynch is town to me and it's almost all tone

It would actually be good if I knew whether she was Cephrir because Cephrir can definitely tonetrick me

[popsofctown]

Miss Lynch can't be Nancy because I'm a Nancy Drew 39 alt and I'm in this game so that would break the rules

[popsofctown]

I was a little relieved I could answer Sujimichi's question from earlier with Almsbringer dead but it maybe touches on other mason equities.

Auro taking an unusual comment I made and asking "do you only make that comment as scum" when it is totally and equally likely I only make the comment as town is the scummiest thing that has happened in this game, because it is mimicry of scumhunting but functions specifically on which alignment he needs for me to be.

Copying my vote would be way better life choices than this Egix thing, which will disrupt the dog cat balance of the thread until such a time as we kill CSF, and her underpayment catch up was pretty towny to me.

Woodchuck's factual incorrectness about Auro's actual level of humor is maybe besides the point of the spirit of the idea that he's been engaging in the thread a lot a lot a lot without doing a large proportion that warrants a strong townread and I've come down to believing he's an experienced player running a strong circus rather than town who is giving us a lot naturally.

[popsofctown]

in the sense that Auro is at minimum decently good at town I don't want to kill him early but in the sense that I suspect scumgame's lynch resilience is a boss with 3 health bars that is likely my loss condition I want to gladiate him

[popsofctown]

I would like to be allowed to continue to believe Miss Lynch is Cephrir

[popsofctown]

I think you slightly misapprehend my point in that the malicious motive I'm mainly interested in is "Auro's desire to look town and not die", not "Auro's desire to successfully get pops mislynched." The ways it will be ineffectual would be really relevant if I was focused on the second one, but my concern is about the first one.


Lynch resilience isn't only about being townread. There are other factors. One of them is capability to mislynch your detractors which is what I think you're going to pull off on me unless I can spell this out for people well enough.

I am not sure how many people are townreading you right now.

pedit: I don't have a heavy read on Egix, since he doesn't have lots of content. I gave him a relook since there's so little of him, and he has a believable reason for sharing my TSE townread so I like that.

[popsofctown]

To clarify I don't really think it is likely I get lynched today
I will probably have done something funky by day 2 or 3 or so though
such is the style of the Gria

[popsofctown]

Yshtola is making it hard for me to remain sure she's town

[popsofctown]

If you identified four sin eaters, I would immediately know you weren't one because Hectic told me there are only 4.

[popsofctown]

You could also at least help me lynch Auro and if he flips the way I think he will it'd be pretty unlikely you're on his side

[popsofctown]

Who do you think shot Alduskkel, Yshtola?

You seem to want to excuse yourself to certain categories of investigation, maybe you'll accept that one.

[popsofctown]

I also really appreciate the comment on Auro, because it's a thought that was hiding in the back of my mind

You think the things I'm doing well benefit town even if I'm scum?

It's not fallacious if he does! I feel like I get forced to incidentally foster healthy dayplay gamestates out of a necessity to mimic my town meta when I roll town. It's really awful.

[popsofctown]

Skimmy, so I may have messed up a little, but I think it seems that everyone but Egix and Klick posted between the two VCs.

Based on the way those two engage with the site, I feel like I wouldn't rule out Egix from deliberately visiting the site just to submit a daykill and not posting in the game, but I probably would rule Klick out from it.

I like kind of wanted to hear your thought process more than mine so I could read you but now this exercise is getting reflected back onto me.

[popsofctown]

I presumed posting weird characters meant he already planned to put a daykill in the post. I think I saw his placeholder for a VC before at some point and it was far more mundane, "/\" IIRC. So I would think CSF has the same chance of anyone as having fire it, since she posted between that votecount and the last one.

I think anyone who posted between that votecount and the last one, but not between the last one and the previous-to-previous-one, would have an increased odds of having done the shot and I wanted to check that. CSF is likely also on that list, she doesn't post lots and lots.

[popsofctown]

The edit took an hour and twenty minutes, not hours

[popsofctown]

If we assume he edited it into the VC based on a PM between when he posted it and when it was finished I think it's almost always CSF, the only other poster I think is Auro and he never dayvigs here even as scum. Allowing something that happened after the placeholder vote appeared is a little sloppymodding/bastard? though, if you pagetop a VC and the post directly below it is a vote you generally don't incorporate it in the VC.

Hectic doesn't have a history of modding so it's unclear what to expect from him.

[popsofctown]

Why aren't you voting CSF, if you feel confident she performed the dayvig?

[popsofctown]

CSF's avatar froze for a little bit and I started to cry but then it started again and I'm ok now

[popsofctown]

Yshtola's theory is that Hectic posted a placeholder VC without locking the thread at 2:30, he was PM'ed a daykill between 2:30 and 3:50, and then he edited it at 3:50 and decided the VC would actually be a daykill announcement after all.

The main idea behind the post originally being meant to be a VC is probably how he didn't lock the thread while it was pending, which many mods would do if it was a daykill submitted before even the placeholder had appeared.

[popsofctown]

I'm restating points Y'shtola already made, I'm not sure to what degree I would see it as icky/not icky to posit this if it was my idea.

I think Hectic used weird characters in his post because it was a major post and he didn't lock the thread because as a novelty he could manage to run this whole game without using the lock feature (which, as his first modded game, he might not even have mastered). It is the optimistic scenario and I think it's also the more likely scenario. The problem is Yshtola's idea only needs like 20% equity before it becomes optimal to lynch onto it since CSF is scum virtually 100% of the times her theory is true.

If he posts lynches without locking the thread then the idea will start to seem really silly imo

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Cat scratch fever

I still think Yshtola's theory is probably wrong, but I think this second kill was quite possibly motivated by the win/win of killing Y'shtola or generating a scumflip that distracted the conversation off of CSF.

That interpretation would still give her a remaining kill, and looking at CSF's posting patterns, she is likely to return in 3-4 hours. If we can flashwagon her very, very quickly here, we could lynch her before she can desperation shoot. As soon as she's aware of this level of pressure she's likely to keep more of an eye on the thread.

[popsofctown]

Ok I think maybe pops are town.

this is decidedly not town!Cheeky meta

[popsofctown]

It was Yshtola's theory, I was just restating it and dithering on whether it had a low chance of having enough merit to change what's optimal.

The reason my vote is where it is now is different.

Please don't misrep me. My love of explaining things is only exceeded by my love of gimmick alts

[popsofctown]

The main idea behind the post originally being meant to be a VC is probably how he didn't lock the thread while it was pending, which many mods would do if it was a daykill submitted before even the placeholder had appeared.

He also locked the thread after updating that post for a while. I think he probably meant to have locked it before, probably.

I think that kills what little merit the theory might have

[popsofctown]

What L- was Egix at?
That does seem worth considering.
TSE's interest in the kill makes it seem like he wants to use new information to inform his reads and Auro's disinterest/dismissiveness is what the other alignment looks like.

[popsofctown]

TSE masonhunting bad

[popsofctown]

is it not particularly interesting information because you already knew a goon would performing a shot in a PM you sent to Hectic

[popsofctown]

because to me it is fascinating information because a hard masonread on alduskkel is very plausible but I don't see how anyone could get past a soft masonread on y'shtola and that says something about how scum feels about the gamestate that they shot anyway

[popsofctown]

yeah 795 is me meming my tunnel I will confess you have zero equity for either kill on playstyle IMO, only equity as #3 or #4

which is maybe enough it's not mechanically optimal to lynch you today grumblegrumble

[popsofctown]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FU

[popsofctown]

O.k.VOTE: Auro

[popsofctown]

Wow
That was all four shots right?

[popsofctown]

Oh. That's wild.

Probably all the shots were Cheeky on a tear, then?

[popsofctown]

I thought each goon has 1 shot, the way the rules are written.

[popsofctown]

I was scumreading CheekyTeeky again and she was finally scum but I didn't get to lynch her

[popsofctown]

Why do you think I am scum?

[popsofctown]

You can gladiate anyone you want to gladiate.
It bothers me I can't remember your reasons for pushing me.

I am at least a little shaken about putting together the pieces on CT deciding to shoot when we were crossvoting compared to some later time.

[popsofctown]

TSE none of your associative clears make any sense to me

[popsofctown]

Random sidenote: when I was a teen I read a book called Klick and that character gave me nightmares. I can only vaguely remember it now.

For more proof.
This post here Town Clears Klick.

Maybe we can start here!?!?!

[popsofctown]

Auro to what extent are you good at mafia where I should BoP you on a really bad solve
Not a leading question treat it goodfaithy please

[popsofctown]

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

If you flip town I'll gladly be BoP'd.

[popsofctown]

And?

[popsofctown]

I still think she's more likely town than not.

[popsofctown]

I don't have her townlocked but that angle definitely does nothing for me. Suji's too similar to me to ever actively rolefish I think.

[popsofctown]

Her playstyle is similar to my own, although superficially it doesn't seem that way since I'm far memier

[popsofctown]

Why would I "realize" the gladiate isn't strategic as a result of CT dying and losing an expected vote on my slot?
It's still a good idea, especially if people won't give you a full pass for mercking me

[popsofctown]

when he was a hydra in starcraft his hydra was my hardest townread and I remember moving my positional ability thing to try to get in range to where I would be allowed to doc him. I don't remember why or how much was him or his read on me

[popsofctown]

I think Egix should at least get some more time to engage with the game, but I'm not townreading him and it's not impossible Auro would bus or maybe Auro is somehow town. I may vote there.

I would feel Egix is more likely to flip red than Sujimichi.

[popsofctown]

I won't insist I know how to read Auro

[popsofctown]

CSF doesn't seem particularly likely town within what's left of this razed place.

A confident Klick townread against a doubtful Miss Lynch read seemed really weird given their respective post volumes.

I agree strongly with a TSE townread. He's misreading me but it seems genuine and misguided.

[popsofctown]

I am seeing the only read I agree on is TSE

Our PoE's are more similar than I though, though, I think I'm disoriented between this game having lots of scums that need to exist and not quite internalizing Alduskkel was actually town.

[popsofctown]

Something was off about his post about Egix being skimmable but it's nontrivial to articulate.

He had a few little things that seemed townie as counterweight, but I'm confused for anyone to have a strong read at all.


I think it is pretty safe to talk about read strength at this point, but I still think we should keep the final mason as safe as possible, we gain information if scum pushes the mason

The claim and shooting strategy around Lylo and lylo-1 hurts my head a lil but I'm pretty sure basic "dayplay is cool" reasons are enough to want secrecy

[popsofctown]

Egix you don't seem as concerned about how popular a wagon you are as I expected. Can you towntell or something?

[popsofctown]

I miss Y'shtola

[popsofctown]

What do you think about TSE?

[popsofctown]

Ok
I do not oppose this lynch

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Egix

[popsofctown]

Can the 1 scum in Auro/ML be Auro?

Why do you tolerate persons dancing on your head?

[popsofctown]

TSE is the easiest read in this game to me

And for a highly active player it's offputting that now is when you would indicate for the first time you scumread him.

I don't like the wagonomics on your lynch but it could be a chance to course correct those reads.

[popsofctown]

you're not hammered, are you?

[popsofctown]

I think it looks like Klick hammered :/ I didn't realize he had as many votes as he did

[popsofctown]

I guess the good thing is if he's scum he probably didn't submit a shot

[popsofctown]

I feel bad because last time I played with him we rolled scum together and I had to buss him so I feel like a career bully towards him now

[popsofctown]

i'm not drinking

water

[popsofctown]

Are you town?

[popsofctown]

It is maybe silly this seems a lot like townie posthammer conduct

[popsofctown]

Subject: Micro 920 - Less Pressure [Game Over!]

Times up :/

Welp
Good luck at lylo I guess

He was scum this game

You seem as proud as Spaceman Spiff

[popsofctown]

Just checked, that was hammer. I didn't realise, though I think a quick lynch on Egix is optimal here and probably would have done it were I aware?

Is this a reference to the daykill dynamic or your level of confidence?

[popsofctown]

I have read nothing of the thread except the pagetop of this page but I want to say that it is a beautiful pagetop

[popsofctown]

Wow
That was all four shots right?

Wait you were under the impression that scum get only four shots?!

I was, to me that's how it seemed the rules were written.

@Miss Lynch do you think cheeky is scum?

This brightened my day and it hasn't been a great one thanks for this.

Miss Lynch ignores the fact that the timing of Cheeky's woodchuck slot (it was 99% her, or even otherwise, the shot itself no matter who took it) had no relation to the gamestate at the time. Cheeky simply took shots when she thought someone was Mason.

The woodchuck shot had even

less

clear relation to the chuckstate of how clear he was mason, much earlier posts would seem far more relevant for determining he is scum.
I think it makes way more sense to humbly say there was something about the gamestate, but it's not clear without knowing the scumteam.

Yeah this slot needs to die.

VOTE: ML

It’s probably this, Pops and Suji.

Your reads are so good. Did you push Egix to lynch, too?

Didn't you just name Klick and Egix as great candidates for scum just a page ago?

Like no one's to blame for Egix's lynch. Egix being unreadable because of his poor effort at playing the game when he actually can is totally on him.

This is such a scummy way to frame D1. Egix was very much playing.

Without regard to the validity of your point, why do you think I would "know this is a bad idea?" Further, why do you "think town!Suji is pretty sensible as a player?" As far as I recollect, we have not played a game together.

I can infer from your posts, I occasionally check out parts of other games, I've seen you being nommed for Rising Star, etc.

Bad, I stated in this thread that Sujimichi is a goddess amongst the mortals and that data point is more valuable than all these other data points combined because I am a beacon of insights.
smh

Miss Lynch, if you lynch me and I flip town, will you follow my desired lynch(es) in the following days?

Are you willing to sheep my lynch today and then lynch me tomorrow if it flips town?

Why did you say this when we potentially do not have a next phase?

We

mostly

do? If I understand the setup correctly, on a mislynch today, players could race to the thread and yolo-vote one player immediately, possibly achieving a lynch before any scum log on or forcing a scum who isn't the victim to perform a shot (which is doubly dangerous, on a miss both the original wagon target and the scum who missed would die and it becomes a 1 scum game.

I'd like to point out that the only argument made against me or Sujimi (as far as I can tell) has been an argument of BoP, and no one in this player list has played a significant amount of games with me, and from what I've seen, no one has played a significant amount of games w/ Sujimi, this seems a bit ridiculous FMPOV.

I've played with her thrice.

Let me preface this by saying that single game meta is a bad sole reason to town or scum read anyone in a mafia game outside of early day 1, and especially in potential Mylo. That said, I skimmed Suji's recent scum game and recent town game and found too few similarities between either to support a scum read on them except in the most dire circumstances. The scum game bring used lasted only 9 days and seems to be a mechanically run game - a game where posting a mere 30 times in 13 pages isn't really a whole lot to write home about, and a game where a player who seems to not be making much of an impression at all will likely fly mostly under the radar. In addition, Suji's posting in that game seem to be largely concerned with her scum buddy, with mastina coming up in roughly 70% of her posts. I don't see a correlation here with her and cheeky. In fact, she mentions Cheeky almost not at all. Combine this with the fact that her most recent town game she also posted largely like this - the only notable lacking factor from my skin is that she's less aggressive and controlling in this game - could be explained by a plethora of reasons. Fearmongering over Suji's play in this instance does not seem like a good move to make, especially when there are 9 days left to allow a more reasonable approach to make an impact.

If you didn't examine this game closely it is potentially really relevant that that game had a special mechanic where mastina got to be a scum dayvig (which is extremely town indicative in a micro) but was guaranteed to die n2 and flip scum (with no explanation) so I would think that strongly incentivizes you to interact with the scumpartner.

What's an absol?

Absol is a pokemon. It is cosmetically very appealing. Its abilities, at least when it was first released, are underwhelming and don't tie together into the clearest purposes ever which is why I found the question really funny.

@Pops/Chemist: would you vote Suji? If not, why not?

If not why, why not: because you are supporting the lynch
Would you vote for Suji: maaaaaaybe. I don't feel like she's townspewed since early day 1 and I agree that asking for us to look on wagon without even beginning to steer the onwagon crosshairs seems off.
Unlike Egix I don't think this could be bussing-Auro so the more necessary element is for me to possibly be willing to vote Suji is changing my mind about Auro or being assured that he'd be vengelynched for mislynching Sujimichi. Neither seems really likely. Actually the more I think about it it's possible my win condition for this game is posting bizarre things designed to somehow cause Auro to shoot a VT.

Pops, I'm curious - what do you think of my abilities as a town player? I'd like a honest answer. I won't be offended

I think you're like, slightly above average maybe. I think you're not as good at generating a protown gamestate but have good solving.

Auro scumcases Sujimichi

A lot of this is really reasonable and plausible. I feel like I can buy a lot of what is being sold here anytime you're town. Anytime you're scum it's just a good concoction.

Can you tell me, why have you scumread me more than Sujimichi all game when this seems much more coherent than your stances on me?
_________________________________________________________________________

I am feeling way worse about ML's slot today. Auro's defense of her doesn't seem to have as much foundation as it needs. I think maybe there is just an Auro/Miss Lynch/(CSF>Klick) scumteam. Lynching Sujimichi into Chemist, as one of the plausible-looking outcomes right now, would be a loss for that.

[popsofctown]

Klick, TSE, CSF town
Miss Lynch I don't know.
Pops, Suji, Chemist is my current guess for the scumteam

Auro to what extent are you good at mafia where I should BoP you on a really bad solve
Not a leading question treat it goodfaithy please

You also admit Suji hasn't been towntelling... Which means there was no real reason to townread her even at that point, and you wouldn't vote her only because I'm pushing her. I'm sure you'll say the same about Chemist, too.

Given that, 869 seems to make little sense from you. I don't see why you felt it was such a "really bad solve" that I might have to be BoP'd.

869 predates Sujimichi's day 2 posts?!?!? pls no time travel BoP

I think you are being much more presumptuous with my purposes with 869 than you should be, I thought it'd be interesting to see how you responded to the question. FMPOV at the time, "my town role PM" + "one of very few people in thread to townread my town role PM" + "very easy lynch" looked lol to me and even though the last one could definitely be scum and the second one could maybe be it sparked the idea to ask that question.

[popsofctown]

869 predates Sujimichi's day 2 posts?!?!? pls no time travel BoP

I know it did. I inferred that you didn't have any real reason to townread her then too, and then made my argument.

It was never a strong townread, but I did have some minor reasons to townread her. You can't just say things and make them so.

[popsofctown]

I thought it seemed scummy that you came into this day without much of a coherent worldview, in particular scum reading both me and Auro doesn't seem that plausible? I think it can be valid to feel strongly a quarreling pair has a scum in it and not be sure which one, but when it's something like this game where it looks like SvS never ever i would expect that to come to the forefront in the thought process. It makes it look a lot like you're playing close to the best about how this day is going.

You've moved towards a more coherent solve without someone calling you out on it, though.

[popsofctown]

Did you make posts while not caught up on the thread?

[popsofctown]

That makes a lot of stuff make more sense

[popsofctown]

Probably not. No one seems to townread me. I'm not having a great game. Scumreading Allisdust was bad. Being skeptical about Egix's lynch was good but voting him on a whim over a single data point was bad and trumps it.

I feel really reminded of how I felt on day 3-4 of AvP after tunneling and pushing someone really hard using arguments that made a lot of sense to me and nobody else buying into them at all, and then eventually giving up and compromising on someone else, and then the next day finally getting that lynch that I wanted but it flipped town and it was like, no one was buying my arguments because I was wrong I guess. It's more of a fear than a new view, like I still feel like Auro is scum, some of it is like emotional instead of logical at this point, but like, demoralizingly, nobody wants to lynch him, so I probably only should be looking at winning the games where I'm wrong about him and he's town. But I'm pretty sure I lose most of those games from us not being able to afford our likely mislynch. I could re-iso the most relevant slots to suggest what people lynch afterwards but I have no credibility or clout in the game right now so it seems very unlikely I'll be deadsheeped at all.

Today looks a lot lot like me or Sujimichi and if Sujimichi is town we can hardly afford it and if he flips scum I'm being sold as always that partner, so more or less it feels like I'm getting lynched today.

Do you have some slot you feel particularly unsure about you'd like get an opinion on to keep in mind?

[popsofctown]

That was all at Miss Lynch

[popsofctown]

If I'm supposed to assume Auro is town and his reads are probably good, then I'd sheep his Sujimichi case.
If I'm supposed to assume Auro is town and misreading me means this is an offgame for him and I should believe in myself, I think there's some good reasons to scumread A Fever You Can't Sweat Out
If I'm supposed to get really scared of mislynching in MyLo I think I push Chemist because he's kind of been a nothing sandwich like he is in most of his games but circumstantial evidences from lots of slots seeming to have town equity + Chemist never getting pushed makes the chances he is scum rather high

The first of those perspectives makes the most sense. If Auro is town I'm having just as bad a game as he is, worse because I'm tunnelier, if he's scum I have the best chance of changing hearts and minds after a missed or abstained vig tomorrow if he had more ownership over a today's lynch.

[popsofctown]

If I'm supposed to assume Auro is town and his reads are probably good, then I'd sheep his Sujimichi case.
If I'm supposed to assume Auro is town and misreading me means this is an offgame for him and I should believe in myself, I think there's some good reasons to scumread A Fever You Can't Sweat Out
If I'm supposed to get really scared of mislynching in MyLo I think I push Chemist because he's kind of been a nothing sandwich like he is in most of his games but circumstantial evidences from lots of slots seeming to have town equity + Chemist never getting pushed makes the chances he is scum rather high

The first of those perspectives makes the most sense. If Auro is town I'm having just as bad a game as he is, worse because I'm tunnelier, if he's scum I have the best chance of changing hearts and minds after a missed or abstained vig tomorrow if he had more ownership over a today's lynch.

How does the game change perspective if for some reason you are allowed a vig shot and Chemist flips town?

It doesn't change an awful lot, I think it's, like, TMI to not show interest in his lynch, but on the other hand nightless tends to incentivize scum to push for mislynches proactively, I agree with that concept. It kind of averages out to a watch. If you say that makes Chemist a low information list that's not the best lynch for today I don't think I disagree.

[popsofctown]

*wash not watch sorry for softing my watcher role i'll try to hide it next game

[popsofctown]

You repeatedly make these little mentions that would imply you could sympathize with an Auro scumread but then go on to talk about how bad the scumread is and how you think I'm scum for it. Like 4 posts ago you told ML you could be high energy as scum and the circus metaphor was precisely about how you've been high energy and I sense you're the kind of player that could do that as scum.

I am not -actually- a Nancy Drew 39 alt so I'm not going to scream the reasons at you you should be townreading me, I never do that as either alignment. When I roll town I'm usually mystified by the reasons people come up with for townreading me. I don't tend to really view anything as out of my scumrange - even when Klick asked me a similar question, I couldn't help but veer offtopic to how, sometimes maybe sometimes, I could XYZ as scum sometimes.

I don't usually get indignant about getting mislynched either, except the time I was 24 hours-past-gamestart flashwagoned

I don't know what I could give you. When RC scumread me after I'd hyperposted I tried giving him everything but the only thing that worked was a Redirector claim. I don't think it's likely your view will shift. There is a reason the two phases I'm most likely get lynched are Day 1 and enough-joke-votes-in-postgame-discussion-to-lynch

[popsofctown]

You repeatedly make these little mentions that would imply you could sympathize with an Auro scumread but then go on to talk about how bad the scumread is and how you think I'm scum for it. Like 4 posts ago you told ML you could be high energy as scum and the circus metaphor was precisely about how you've been high energy and I sense you're the kind of player that could do that as scum.

I am not -actually- a Nancy Drew 39 alt so I'm not going to scream the reasons at you you should be townreading me, I never do that as either alignment. When I roll town I'm usually mystified by the reasons people come up with for townreading me. I don't tend to really view anything as out of my scumrange - even when Klick asked me a similar question, I couldn't help but veer offtopic to how, sometimes maybe sometimes, I could XYZ as scum sometimes.

I don't usually get indignant about getting mislynched either, except the time I was 24 hours-past-gamestart flashwagoned

I don't know what I could give you. When RC scumread me after I'd hyperposted I tried giving him everything but the only thing that worked was a Redirector claim. I don't think it's likely your view will shift. There is a reason the two phases I'm most likely get lynched are Day 1 and enough-joke-votes-in-postgame-discussion-to-lynch

How would you react if I told you when I read your posts I don't get the sense that you don't believe you're town? I guess it's a silly question, but do you agree or disagree?

I started feeling like scum after participating in Egix murder but if you read my day 1 posts it shouldn't seem that way

[popsofctown]

It has kind of been easy to tell that TSE is a mason for a while, Chemist

[popsofctown]

You didn't say it, I'm saying the logic for sympathizing seems like it's there but then you dissonantly don't reach the conclusion.

I'm annoyed about being told I misread you in White Flag. The only reads I felt strongly about in that game were Dong!town, Hop!town, and Dann!scum. Which side of null I had you is whatever

[popsofctown]

Chemist you have a cute Absol plushie

[popsofctown]

I'm not sure how productive it is to keep going back and forth with Auro

If third parties are getting something out of it let me know

I have a hard time seeing him actually accepting anything I say as new things to genuinely think about

[popsofctown]

I'm not gonna claim I don't think that helps us

[popsofctown]

I think it would help if you engaged elsewhere, pops. Or even provided thoughts as a more general overview.

Yeah I think Auro is sapping my energy to play the rest of the game.
Tomorrow IRL I am going to spend some time laying out more of my thoughts on other slots (I play more on weekdays)

[popsofctown]

I think we should lynch outside of Chemist/TSE today

[popsofctown]

@Pops just please tell me how I should recognize you being town from your own perspective. We can stop talking then. If you've already answered it, apologies but I missed it.

The question is bad/unhelpful because like I've tried to describe before, the reasons people end up actually townreading me are always different from the things I feel show distinctly town in my posting.

I can only give you the stuff I would use, which the Venn diagram says does nothing for other people ever. I'll just tell you that stuff for good faith and stuff.

1. I've interacted with virtually every slot in this game, as scum I find ways to excuse myself from interacting with slots that are hard to interact with. I pretty much always get away with that. As town I interact with people because it's fun.

2. I've repeatedly put myself at risk when I usually play defensively as scum. I'm getting doubtful of my reads but I'm following when I get them no matter what it means for my slot. Possibly I'm doing this to a fault since the death ratios are different in nightless.

3. I've intermittently invited slots to do things that might make them readable to me, which I don't do as scum (it's not an outright hallmark of my townplay either, to be fair, but I feign even less of it as scum). Asking you about being BoP'ed with pretty little to no intent of actually making this a game about BoP is an example of that which makes me feel like I'm getting scumread for one of my towntells.

[popsofctown]

Site rule 2 hasn't been interpreted to relate to the classic "X is active elsewhere on site". You could mount an argument that if the posts elsewhere on site are in mafia games (which for Sujimichi I'm almost certain they are) then you're discussing an ongoing game and discussing something specific about that ongoing game, though, (were you able to say "X is active on site" on Tuesday? How about Wednesday?) and running around using it to catch "freshman Creature" types isn't the most beautiful way to be playing the game which is why some players decline opportunities to bring it up. The thing is, if the player isn't a "freshman Creature" type of player, it generally backfires/isn't accurate. If the player is, it probably lets you figure out the difference between a quiet scum roll vs. a town player who was busy, but hey, we just said this player is freshman Creature, cmon, can't we make you feel bad for needing any kind of crutch at all?
__________________________________________________________________________________
Klick's scumcase on ML was this long wall from a slot that's been blips and bleeps and I feel more convinced that Klick is town than I do that ML is certain scum. One thing to point out: how much have you played with CheekyTeeky? Because, like, usually it's beyond absurd to think a player would shoot themselves. But like.. it's CheekyTeeky. She could do anything. I assumed maybe ML has some familiarity with CT that made it seem less impossible.

[popsofctown]

I share Sujimichi's scumread of CSF as I've mentioned before. I think I owe ML something closer to a reads list than a post by post casing next in this game tho

[popsofctown]

Egix, who do you scumread?

Auro, are you buddying me?

pedit: can I get in on this support group

No because I'm the capricious Duchess and I don't personally scumread your towntone.

CheekyTeeky is out too because I only scumread her towntactics.

Chemist1422 is invited to submit an application.

is it too late to apply to this

It's not too late
it's never too late

[popsofctown]

Creature was famous for lurking and hardly posting at all when he was scum and being active and participating when he was town his first year playing the game.

Many players follow that trend to a lesser extent.

Creature is a much more diverse player now.

[popsofctown]

Raw readslist first then I will discuss the nonmechanical slots 1 by 1 maybe like three per post.
popsofctown - Mason
Klick
Miss Lynch
Sujimichi
Auro
Cat Scratch Fever
Chemist (counterclaimed me as a 5th mason)
TSE (counterclaimed me as a 5th mason)

[popsofctown]

Klick - Klick throughout the game has done little bits of interaction that seemed kind of towny with a tiny cute curled y but for much of the game the low quantities of those posts made me feel like it was good faking, and there is only a low quantity of it he can fake. Increasing his output a lot (apparently because his inlaws left, so not because we must have scum up against the wall) refutes the only reservation I had.
ML of all slots is like actively dumb to wagon right now? Which makes for a fat grouping of question marks I want to bin as town.
Miss Lynch - ML's frequent calls for re-evaluation today seem genuinely interested in getting the correct solve. She seems to try to cause interactions that would be illuminating. Her pages of fist fighting with TSE were potential times we should have seen something scummy.
Auro townreading this slot for reasons that don't make me sense makes me want to consider Auro/ML solves a lot though.
Sujimichi - Sujimichi's case on CSF is one I agree with, and it has been pretty solvey. Auro's reasons in his case are persuasive about Sujimichi, though, counterweighing that.
I'm a little concerned with how easily Sujimichi has slipped into a defensive posture, though. She's said that it's MyLo and that she has the same survival motive scum does in this situation, but I don't think that factoid accurately reflects everything, scum need 1 more mislynch if they've identified the mason, town needs three correct lynches back to back to back. That contrast would put defense on the backburner a bit more, I think.
Auro - I am pretty interested in the idea of learning Auro's alignment by watching him lynch scum, like he says, but, I've talked about this slot a lot, I feel like the scum!Auro universes are a lot of the universes. town!Auro is some of them. I feel like my original reasons for scumreading him were flatly called bad by the one slot very incentivized to reach that verdict then buried in lots of things that have happened since (including Auro's high post-rate). But still I think it's not nothing that my teammates didn't see enough in my piece to carry the torch the next mile on this, which is a reason to be less confident.
Cat Scratch Fever- Sujimichi talked about her a lot. Her iso is also very IioA if you look at it. She asks little clarifying questions that don't matter and demonstrate too much thread presence to not warrant some real interactions. I will repeat lest people forget that I think the vigshot timing was incriminating for her.
In the situations where she is town she is probably not able to show it due to hyperposting in the thread which is sad. But with townreads elsewhere I feel this is just a really straightforward scumslot that no one has ever defended in a way that's compelling

[popsofctown]

is this what you wanted Miss Lynch?

[popsofctown]

Let me put it another way.

To win the game, town!you has to find the entire scumteam (so do I excepting my perspective is a bit more perspective about accurate vigshots so maybe not.)
If you find the entire scumteam and convince everyone of it, you've successfully defended your slot because the team has no more room.

Scum!you has to identify one player to be lynched, and you could even be lynched right after.

One thing I was kind of expecting from you unprompted today was a coherent townbloc proposal, even if it's only two or three cards at this point, and I don't remember seeing that type of thought.

[popsofctown]

*a bit more pessimistic, not "a bit more perspective", EBWOP

[popsofctown]

One thing I was kind of expecting from you unprompted today was a coherent townbloc proposal, even if it's only two or three cards at this point, and I don't remember seeing that type of thought.

I was conversely expecting a scumteam solve.
Proposing Auro/CSF/Klick doesn't seem to make much sense if scum!her believes I won't change my mind and TSE won't.

Six of one half a dozen of the other

[popsofctown]

Auro townreading this slot for reasons that don't make me sense

Which reasons specifically? I'm cool if you disagree that the nuance in her read of me after I claimed to have high energy as scum is a towntell, but you can't see why I'd believe that's a legitimate point?

No indeed I was sympathetic towards that. It was something closer to daystart, I'd have to dredge it up.

[popsofctown]

Both of them.

The townslip is overstated since scum!ML can be making a decision to bus during catchup. Townslip scavenger hunt seems like a convenient way to approach a partner slot in general.

[popsofctown]

TSE and Chemist are both confirmed to be scum because I was the last mason.

I would prefer to lynch their partner this dayphase and move forward from there thank you

[popsofctown]

What do you mean by signaling posts? Is that an addendum to 1544, signaling that you're making the game unfun?

[popsofctown]

THE PERSON WITH THE AVATAR SIMILAR TO HOBBES IS MASON

[popsofctown]

Not all heroes wear capes

[popsofctown]

Emphasis on unprompted, the first time I see you spell out a full team, it is when Auro asks, "Who are my partners?", which essentially is asking you to name a full team.

It's not a lock-her-up-and-throw-away-the-key item, Auro's points are stronger, but mentioning some of my own thoughts can make me more readable.

[popsofctown]

Auro if you think we're a scumteam you should look for posts that are Sujimichi teaching me to play scum. She has a 100% winrate.

[popsofctown]

I mean, I'm not certain which players are my teammates, but I don't know any cleaner phrasing for the acknowledgement that so many people declined to agree with my case that several have to be town.

Sujimichi is on you for different reasons so even if I think you're scum the majority of cases where she's town the lack of corroboration on my reasoning itself still holds

Last time I remember someone joining a tunnel but not cosigning any of my reasons it was scum helping me cause a mislynch.

[popsofctown]

ML of all slots is like actively dumb to wagon right now? Which makes for a fat grouping of question marks I want to bin as town.

Talk to me about this, both parts

If you were thinking politically you wouldn't go for ML, because Auro is townreading her and has apparent sway over lots of the game. If you wanted to overcome Auro, you would go for the head of the snake and vote Auro, since I've stated him as a preference. If the difference were Auro is scum with you and ML is not it makes more sense but it's a weird line of play to subvert what Auro's been doing.
I think you're just genuinely scumreading ML which suggests you are town having organic solving reflexes to posts.
The second part is just a metaphor summarizing what I've previously posted I don't think it references something that needs explaining.

I feel like Pops as town would have presented a lot more annoyance at my accusations and that kind of language nitpick

It's kind of creepy that you referenced the way my post looked before I revised it. And, it's actually probably really town indicative, because scum!Auro would see what I posted and think "that's what town!pops posts here, I know because I just read it and I have her role PM in notepad", but town!Auro is speculating. It's kind of a heck of a pagetop.

I decided Sujimichi is not the type of person to be swayed by a hissy fit, so I went with something calmer.

[popsofctown]

Cat Scratch I want to hear your opinion on Auro slot as of now when you threadvisit.

[popsofctown]

Neither of you would have claimed unless you felt you were the disposable member of the scumteam and we have to win in straight lynches.

So I'll find your partners today.