Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[Egix96]

VOTE: Auro

Game theory optimal strat

[Egix96]

TSE, did you roll scum again?

Huh I don't remember you being in B4M.

Ok Chemist, hopefully no one catches we’re masons this soon.

I’d agree that Egix could be scum this game

.

Open queue in a nutshell

[Egix96]

<.<
>.>
Is it bad that I want to scumread you Auro?

If you'll forgive my personal biases... no, not at all.

VOTE: Homura
I think this and Miss Lynch both have decent chances of being scum.

Chemist, your accusation of TSE is unfair, he was pressed for reasoning and *then* said he thought I was VT over scum because of the "slip". I don't see why town shouldn't distinguish between Masons and VTs in their sorting process. I feel like you made up a reason to sit on TSE's wagon.

I’d feel this way too but Let’s just say me and Chemist have “History”

He honestly would just place a vote on me for any reason just for the sack of getting rid of me.

If someone said “PL TSE”
He would join that vote.

Let me guess, you once dunked on him so hard it made him never want to trust you again?

And yet I'm finding your tone more stiff.

*shrug* I think my tone's always like this Anything else that makes you want to scumread me?

Idk, I remember you once saying that people find your tone to be more "frozen" when you're scum. Old news?

I'm townreading a lot of the active posters, primarily.
Homura is coasting on the TSE attack.
Miss Lynch's opening posts are scummy, she "skims" the game and votes Aldusskel without any explanation.

My play might not match your expectations of my townplay, by the way - I'm a lot less serious about this game

What's scummy about that? Solid reasoning for Alk has already been given, I don't like how you're trying to frame "skimming the game" as something scummy to do.

Does using the tiger skin really make it so bad such that

seven pages

is an amount you don't have time to read at normal speed? Afaict the issue here is that people are expecting you to have had no need to just skim it all.

@Pops: Not quoting your post because it would be a pain to trim down on this device, but I'm curious as to how you interpreted my "in a nutshell" comment. What I meant is that I have historically had a high rate of randing scum in Open games.

[Egix96]

Egix, who do you scumread?

Honestly no idea.

[Egix96]

so how do you plan on fixing that

This afternoon I'll have a go.

[Egix96]

Y'shtola

Her questioning of things feels genuine and I empathise with her reading people based on feels, as is shown in 380.

Klick

I kinda wish that 51 wasn't a "troll response" because I actually kinda agree with it.
104 - I find it a little bit odd that Klick seemed openly indifferent towards the Teeky wagon although TSE, whom Klick was voting at the time, was on there. I feel as though Klick would be more opposed to the wagon in that case.

Auro

144 - I don't get what's -worthy about that.
277 - "I want to alt-hunt Rhul." - I presume this is because you believe it will help you read her? Otherwise I'm not seeing the point.

TSE

145 -> 146 - My immediate feeling was that this was scummy (sort of like an "argh damn I shouldn't have said that" response) but upon thinking about it a bit more carefully... is it really a scum's immediate thought to say "yes that's exactly what I'm doing" when they see someone accusing them of doing something scummy? I also kinda feel like the same kind of logic applies to 151.
185 - You seem to be failing to realise that saying someone is a VT narrows down the possibilities of who could be mason. It's hunting them by PoE.

[Egix96]

Y'shtola
Her questioning of things feels genuine and I empathise with her reading people based on feels, as is shown in 380.

Would you please point out what questioning of Yshtola Rhul's you find to be genuine?

Generally it reads to me that she's genuinely inquisitive rather than trying to advance an agenda with it.
Ofc if it turns out that she is in fact an alt rather than a new player then this read loses some of its value.

I find myself skimming over most of Egix's posts without being able to commit much critical thinking to them. I've found in the past that that slot is scum >rand for me.

He indicated that he has a high rate of receiving a scum role in 246.

I don't think that's quite what Klick meant. He's saying that, if he can skim over someone's posts without having to think about it too much, in his experience that person is usually scum. He can't be talking about ME specifically because he hasn't played a game with me before.

[Egix96]

I've played with Egix before and he obvtowns as town - I checked a recent towngame of his and while it wasn't *that* evident, I could still see he was gamesolving.
He's making mostly empty points here and his posts come off as forced to me, which is pretty telling.

I don't really know what's up with me this month, I feel like I'm in the middle of a big slump. It might be because of my recent winning streak going to my head, dare I suspect.

Generally it reads to me that she's genuinely inquisitive rather than trying to advance an agenda with it.
Ofc if it turns out that she is in fact an alt rather than a new player then this read loses some of its value.

Would you please point out the specific questioning? This was my request, as you already stated the generality.

Like, all of it??

[Egix96]

104 - I find it a little bit odd that Klick seemed openly indifferent towards the Teeky wagon although TSE, whom Klick was voting at the time, was on there. I feel as though Klick would be more opposed to the wagon in that case.

I'm confused by this point. Could you explain it in a different way?

I think I'll keep my vote where it is for now.

It's like this:
> You are voting TSE
> TSE is voting CheekyTeeky
> So unless you think that TSE is bussing, then that implies Cheeky is a mislynch
> You say: "I will admire this wagon from a distance."
> Instead of, perhaps, "Nah, I'm not voting that, not while TSE's on there."

The problem is that I now realise I had the order of events mixed up a bit - TSE actually voted Cheeky before you voted TSE, not the other way around as I previously thought.

[Egix96]

I don't really know what's up with me this month, I feel like I'm in the middle of a big slump. It might be because of my recent winning streak going to my head, dare I suspect.

If you're town I'm gonna need you to get deep into the game and obvtown, buddy
Was it a scum winning streak?

I can't promise anything, but okay

And no, you could have actually checked that for yourself but here you go anyway:

Games that ended in 2020
Game title Role Fate Won/Lost
Newbie 1975: Zen Vanilla Town Survived Won
Newbie 1977 Mafia Rolecop Survived Won
Mini Normal 2115 Town 2-shot Vigilante Neighbour Survived Won
Micro 920: Less Pressure Mafia Goon Lynched D1 Won

Also there's this MU game if you would count it.

pedit: #fairenough

[Egix96]

Ugh I dozed off on page 20. I will be able to catch up tomorrow because tomorrow is Fri-yay, but in the interest of getting my paw more into the game:

VOTE: Egix

is a fine vote

246 seems like posting for the sake of posting.

401 is a lot of words but not many stances. Egix, what's your read on Auro and Klick (presently, not when you wrote this post)?

I feel pretty good about TSE, Ysh, and ML.

Just because I made a daily catchup post that ended up being mostly smalltalk? Okay.
Honestly Auro/Klick (each of them) could go either way. The issue with Auro is that he is a natural when it comes to wolfing, but I don't have enough familiarity with his towngame to know whether or not certain things I've seen him do as scum, he would do as town as well.
Whe I Iso-ed Klick he actually had about half as many posts as I was expecting (19 iirc at the time, my impression from actually reading the thread was that he would have about 40). Make of that what you will.

And yet,
VOTE: Egix
Time to consolidate.

With 5.5 days left?

[Egix96]

I don't have enough familiarity with his towngame to know whether or not certain things I've seen him do as scum, he would do as town as well.

This seems to imply that you find certain patterns in my play which you've seen in my scumgames, but are unsure whether they're actually AI, and thus don't scumread me. Can you list out these things?

.

Auro smells a bit off. Too much off-topic stuff or jokes.

This pop-in is so bad.

Actually scrolling back through your iso I think this is the only recent post of yours I have an issue with. Hmmmm

[Egix96]

You disagree that the pop in is bad?

No??
What I mean is, when you're town and someone says something bad about you, is your immediate thought to just go "Nope! What you're doing is bad."? It feels like you're trying to shut down dissent.

[Egix96]

What gives me pause though is that you'd probably say the same thing even if Chuck was talking about someone else.

[Egix96]

I think we should lynch one of Pops/ML tomorrow.

I'm gonna humour you for a bit - why those two? From what I can tell, your read on Pops is quite hedgy, and your read on ML from earlier is nonsensical:

Spoiler: Relevant posts

She's better at mafia than I

Ok so 2 things.
You didn’t read the trick question I asked your properly
Or
Your scum

Sujimichi is a being of unspeakable power and wisdom and her faction will probably win whichever it is.

Why exactly will it probably win.
What makes it more likely to win then that of your faction?

Now read carefully.
I purposely said this for your reaction.

I’m sorta leaning scum on Pops because of that.
But they could have also just not read properly.

I read Auro’s posts.
It’s Null but leaning Town.

I didn’t read ML’s posts at all and can tell it’s probably scum Motivated
Although Pops responds with Suji before I also don’t like.

[Egix96]

I'm not getting much from reading Cat Scratch's Iso, but I sorta like this part:

I agree with the nonchalant attitude in that he seems to be posting without a filter here compared to the game you linked. He does seem townier compared to that game,

although I'm not like locked on it.

I think he is tryharding though just going off of a lazy post count metric.

I feel like, from a scum POV, the difference would be obvious and they would just roll with it and not bother with (italicised). I'm aware this may seem like a stretch, but ehh it is what it is.

===

I got pretty strong town vibes off of Yshtola's Post 92 and like where she's going with things in general. With Auro I don't really have anything specific off the top of my head, but I feel like he's pushing this game in the right direction. If he keeps doing what he's doing I feel like it will benefit town in the long run, even if he winds up having a scum Role PM.

I will say that p#92 isn't a specific post I found towny from Y'shtola, but I agree with the sentiment. I also really appreciate the comment on Auro, because it's a thought that was hiding in the back of my mind but I couldn't find the right words to express it.

===

I like how Cheeky comes on and starts a. random voting & b. saying many things in short-ish messages when he sees there's a wagon on him.

Presuming that the "I like how..." is sarcasm, I'm not seeing the relevance of your point "b". Tbf Cheeky does have a tendency to chain-post from what I've seen of her in prior games, but I guess you meant it looked like she was flailing?

So far both times you've voted someone, it's been you hopping on a bandwagon, yet when you develop what appears to be a scumlean on Auro in 461 you don't vote him? It doesn't give me the impression that you're genuinely attempting to solve the game.

I'm fine with voting
VOTE: woodchuck
for the time being.

[Egix96]

Egix96, I would still like this.

That really is it though.

pedit: Well I know you sometimes have a tendency to distance/bus so yeah possibly. Even so, if you are scum it will possibly become apparent in lategame anyway.

[Egix96]

VOTE: Chemist

this is my easy strat to clear myself as a VT is it working

bold of you to assume I’m not a goon

No because I'm the capricious Duchess and I don't personally scumread your towntone.

CheekyTeeky is out too because I only scumread her towntactics.

Chemist1422 is invited to submit an application.

fun fact recently I’ve been getting scumread for having towny entrances

Your opening does ring kinda towny to me tho ngl. Should I be concerned?

In all seriousness though, I'd like to see more from you when you have the chance.

[Egix96]

Skimmy, so I may have messed up a little, but I think it seems that everyone but Egix and Klick posted between the two VCs.

Based on the way those two engage with the site, I feel like I wouldn't rule out Egix from deliberately visiting the site just to submit a daykill and not posting in the game, but I probably would rule Klick out from it.

I like kind of wanted to hear your thought process more than mine so I could read you but now this exercise is getting reflected back onto me.

Bleh, angles.

Fwiw I didn't really think Aldus was a mason, so I wouldn't have risked a shot on him.

[Egix96]

Well I know you sometimes have a tendency to distance/bus so yeah possibly. Even so, if you are scum it will possibly become apparent in lategame anyway.

We have three games where I was scum and you were town.

First one, I did no bussing, you thought I was town throughout.
Second one, I got you lynched, and bussed my buddy only because it was absolutely necessary given the suspicion on me.
Third one, I distanced but didn't bus; you thought I was town throughout, and my team had a perfect win.

What informs you that I have a tendency to bus?
What informs you that I will become apparent if scum in lategame?

I stand corrected; I must be misremembering all that. I do remember you distancing yourself from me plenty in the Jungle Rep game, but yeah I don't recall you actually voting me.
As for the lategame thing... honestly I'm finding it hard to put this into words, but kind of like Haunted Village/JR? By which I mean, in the former I was feeling paranoid about you at 5v3 (it's why I wanted you to claim first. And really I think it was obvious in hindsight) and in JR you were essentially mafia by PoE.

Spoiler: Btw

I also really appreciate the comment on Auro, because it's a thought that was hiding in the back of my mind

You think the things I'm doing well benefit town even if I'm scum?

It's not fallacious if he does! I feel like I get forced to incidentally foster healthy dayplay gamestates out of a necessity to mimic my town meta when I roll

town

. It's really awful.

Townslip??

[Egix96]

See I was right about Rhul
Honestly in awe that Chuck was mason. Wtaf.
At least Cheeky was scum but that hardly makes up for it!

pedit: yeah exactly

[Egix96]

VOTE: Egix

This is always scum.
Let’s just take the safe lynch.

times 100

[Egix96]

Can someone read over Auro/CT interactions

Because on a macro level I wanna call it not s/s but there's not a lot of actual pushing between the two

From what I remember, it would be only natural for Cheeky to make those sorts of comments after TM WF
So it's not really something I would read into.

Side note: Wagon on Pops at time of Cheeky death is sketchy imo. I would not lynch Pops.

[Egix96]

Whoever the shooting scum is... Wow.

I think it’s all 3.

I think this happened.

ML Shot Alu

Egix Shot Yshtola because they were close to being hammered

Pops Shot Chuck based around my ISO to see if I’m Mason.
I’m not though I’m VT.

That was at half past eleven, I'd have been asleep by then

[Egix96]

I think consider me gladiating Pops

O.k.VOTE: Auro

Roger that.

VOTE: Pops

I feel like Cheeky would have seen this as an ideal opportunity to vote Auro considering her prior comments, yet she votes Pops instead??

Not a good look for Auro at all.

VOTE: Auro

Could also vote TSE. Third one mayyybe Chem but that's a pretty rough guess.

[Egix96]

Egix you don't seem as concerned about how popular a wagon you are as I expected. Can you towntell or something?

I'm trying...

[Egix96]

Ok I think maybe pops are town.

this is decidedly not town!Cheeky meta

I think Pops is scum.

Is this flipless? Or something?
Why is it Day 3?
Who got lynched Day 1?

Didn’t Egix get lynched?

Ohhhh come onnn...

[Egix96]

What do you think about TSE?

> Was scumread by Aldus
> Was defended by Cheeky
> Is making terrible posts

Could easily be scum.

pedit: yeah you better laugh.

[Egix96]

If there's any important context I'm missing on that, Auro, then please point it out

[Egix96]

Wtaf......

[Egix96]

GET TSE + AURO NEXT

[Egix96]

Nah
No way 776+778 are real thoughts
To me it's obvious he's trying to fake dumbtell

[Egix96]

VOTE: TrueSoulEnergy

[Egix96]

Good luck town.

[Egix96]

ofc yes

[Egix96]

"ofc"

I mean it's quite a silly question for Pops to be asking really.