Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Titus]

At work. Will post later.

+1

[Titus]

Hi everyone. I am Titus, one of the three SEs this game. There's three of us, so you see three different ways of playing. If you're trying to find scum, you're doing it right. All of us only get better with practice.

The first part of the game is RVS. We randomly vote each other until someone has a serious read somewhere. We then just play.

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going.

~~~~

VOTE: tap

[Titus]

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going.

Despite being in RVS there apparently is one already. What do you make of it?

Can you rephrase this?

[Titus]

Never had tapioca before. Is it any good?

VOTE: Phi

Gut.

[Titus]

Never had tapioca before. Is it any good?

VOTE: Phi

Gut.

Strong enough gut ping for you to move off the rvs wagon prior to reaction from Tapi. Hmm.

Yup. Gut it usually a weak indicator but weak indicator is better than a random vote.

[Titus]

Hello everyone. 2 votes on me already!

Dang your more popular then me this game...

I only hope a mafioso would end up more popular than I am.

“Mafioso”?

Hmm.
There is Mafia Goon and a Mafia PR or Mafia Goon.

You said Mafioso which means two things.

Your Town who made a sorta Town slip like this.
Or
Your mafia who unintentionally revealed the setup to be 2 Mafia Goons.

This is artificial.

[Titus]

Okay, I read what I had missed.

Titus changing her vote is NAI.
LunarRest using the word "mafioso" in that one post is NAI as well.

@Titus: What's your opinion on the reaction some people have to your change of vote?

I'm ok tentatively placing you as town based on the top post.

The discussion around me and my vote change is awkward and stilted. A few slots say the same thing and get nowhere but NAI, essentially repeating what came before.

What's absent is more telling. Everyone wants to know why my gut was strong enough, yet no one looked at Phi's behavior. It's not enough to make a strong case out of, but it's still interesting. Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

Mod: I voted Phi not Phoenix.

Fixed, thank you --P

[Titus]

Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

I mean, given that your statement is based on 2 random filler RVS posts with no substance to them, as one could expect from very early posts, of course, isn't it a little far-fetched to say that?

No. It's farfetched to lock him as scum based off of that. To feel the ignorance of the wagon and discussion of food is an artificial distraction is not. Scum love to distract. It's a good place to start none the less. Plus, the sooner we escape RVS the better.

[Titus]

How is this misunderstanding happening with a player who has a join date older than mine unless it is a perspective slip? I'm not sure on this and I kinda want backup.

[Titus]

That was word salad.

[Titus]

VOTE: Karnage

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

[Titus]

At least the good scum has a fedora.

[Titus]

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

[Titus]

I just feel Karnage and Cheeky are doing good cop bad cop here. (Not cop roles but it's an interrogation tactic).

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

why?

Cheeky's been voting me since RVS and had a pretty static read there. He's the "bad cop". He accuses me of being evil, no matter what. You meanwhile are saying that everything I do is ok, making you the "good cop".

[Titus]

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

I think Scum!QQ means Scum!Titus
And Titus is coaching QQ.

Go ahead and elaborate. I would never coach someone to be that obtuse ever. I also oddly don't think QQ is scum independent of my theory. I just think it helps to lay out the groundwork of even bad theories so faulty premises can be corrected.

Why do you think QQ scum means I am coaching him? Do you think QQ is scum or not? Why would I coach someone to post word salad in a newbie game, when that would likely lead to them getting lynched?

[Titus]

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

I think Scum!QQ means Scum!Titus
And Titus is coaching QQ.

Go ahead and elaborate. I would never coach someone to be that obtuse ever. I also oddly don't think QQ is scum independent of my theory. I just think it helps to lay out the groundwork of even bad theories so faulty premises can be corrected.

Why do you think QQ scum means I am coaching him? Do you think QQ is scum or not? Why would I coach someone to post word salad in a newbie game, when that would likely lead to them getting lynched?

I was just thinking that maybe someone told a newbie to sound so whack to the point barely anyone understood what they were doing/saying.
Doing something completely out of the FM frame.

So then I was looking back to see who it was who was saying “oh you can understand them?”
As I feel if QQ is scum being coached it’s someone who responds like that.

It just turned out that you said it. That’s all.

I understand that theory but I feel that violates the newbie queue and the spirit of it.

First, it tells newbies that being unreadable and confusing is a good way to get what they want. It sets newbies up for failure in the long run. This is the place to grow and learn. I'd coach a newbie to say off the wall things and do off the wall strategies but not be deliberately obtuse. This is for getting to know your style in mafia. If an SE was coaching that style, they should be reprimanded.

Second, it tells newbies that their strength of charisma doesn't matter, all that matters is the gimmick and who knows whom. Not a good example to set.

Third, it limits the reaction the SE could have to the slot. The SE can't suddenly understand the gimmick unless the gimmick changes.

It's just a bad strategy all the way around.

[Titus]

SE hat: Newbies, look over this type of exchange TSE and I had. Regardless of alignment (I don't know TSE's alignment), this is a good interaction. He calmly put forth his theory, I answered. He (probably) listened. This gives somewhat of an indication of both our alignments. Go ahead and post any theory you want feedback on. Feel free to critique my weak theory too. My theory is no more right or wrong because I am an SE. I care more about you guys enjoying this game and learning than I do winning. I assure you, I am doing my best as either alignment. Anything else doesn't help you.

[/SE hat]

[Titus]

The question is, is an action ever too scummy to be scummy, in a sense? Cause, I mean, him actively trying to get me lynched for no good reason is strange, but isn't it too obvious, you know what I'm saying?

This is called "Too Bad To Be A Wolf" or TBTBAW. I am not a fan. Others live by it. It's understandable in the newbie games. It is not, imo, outside here. I don't use it. Others do. It's your call. You aren't necessarily wrong if you disagree.

Welcome Homura!

[Titus]

VOTE: Titus

why?

Cheeky's been voting me since RVS and had a pretty static read there. He's the "bad cop". He accuses me of being evil, no matter what. You meanwhile are saying that everything I do is ok, making you the "good cop".

is this the extent of you theory?

Right now, yes.

[Titus]

Right now, yes.

VOTE: Karnage

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

can you show examples of "good cop"/"bad cop" from before 94?

Sure, although I'm phoning in post numbers on Cheeky. Cheeky immediately votes me for breaking RVS. Breaking RVS is usually a good thing. So why would experienced town vote me for that? Cheeky has had that hostile attitude since go. Hence, Cheeky bad cop.

Your 64 is good cop. You're supposing I'm town and have players sucking up to me. This can interfere with natural town blocks. You starting from the supposition that I'm town and working outwards is good cop. You shouldn't know, at this point, that I am town.

[Titus]

Your 64 is good cop. You're supposing I'm town and have players sucking up to me. This can interfere with natural town blocks. You starting from the supposition that I'm town and working outwards is good cop. You shouldn't know, at this point, that I am town.

Do you believe that post 64 is too early in the game to develop a town lean/read on somebody?

No. I don't. I do think it's too early for the strength you displayed. The general concept though, no.

[Titus]

@Cheeky, I have a theory I'm looking to test. If something changes my mind on that, I'll let you know.

Second, it is early so I am open to being wrong. That doesn't mean I'm open to baseless attacks for being protown. You know based on my meta that I am stronger in later days too. You're perfectly free to ignore any theory you find baseless and scumhunt, if you're capable.

[Titus]

@LL, I like your entry.

Can you elaborate on why Cheeky is town? I don't see it.

[Titus]

No. I don't.

I do think it's too early for the strength you displayed.

The general concept though, no.

you're losing me here. the "strength" is displayed? I had a town lean on you. How was anything I said to that point stronger than your 55?

I'm ok tentatively placing you (ph0enix) as town based on the top post.

Not in those words. Yet you treated me as if your lean was much stronger when you looked at someone's posting and assumed they were buddying me.

[Titus]

LL, I think your headstrong nature is doing you no favors. Your extreme confidence that only your way is correct, combined with your impatience give you a salesman type vibe at best. Your attitude is hostile and doesn't encourage people to talk or reveal who their partners may be. Your tactic might work on debate.org but not here.

If you're so sure scum is in your pool, see what mislynches scum go for and why. How people interact with each other shows their priorities.

[Titus]

@Titus, who would you like to lynch this DP?

CheekyTeeky and Karnage.

I know you feel Cheeky is town because of the aggression but scum can very well be aggressive too. Attacking people and avoiding saying who is town is pretty excellent place for scum to be. They aren't pinned to a position.

Town don't have to be rigid thinkers but accountability is what I mean by pinned to a position. I like to see clear thought patterns with premises that can be challenged or accepted.

I feel Phoenix is seeping on you at the moment because you both are controlling personalities here. You two are my biggest TRs.

VOTE: Cheeky

By moving my vote to Cheeky, this will get wagons going. You may not like the Cheeky wagon and I'm not a strong fan of the TSE one. Regardless, the wagons facing off will give us data to check our premises at least partially.

[Titus]

@Karnage, The post you're looking for is 163 which is right about where your tone on me changed.

@LL, Looks like I already got the response I was looking for. Karnage backed off Cheeky to vote for me instead. Regardless of who has the right theory, this doesn't look good for Karnage. If you're right, he's putting two towns against each other. If I am right, he's bailing on bussing when the wagon on Cheeky becomes a threat.

Care to join me?

VOTE: Karnage

[Titus]

Unless you need a primer on what good cop bad cop is, I feel like I explained it well enough.

People can have tip of their tongue thoughts that we can't articulate.

@Homura, I am not so sure I agree this is outside TSE's scumgames.

[Titus]

@Homura, Sure I can. Be forewarned that I consider meta to be the weakest of arguments and I feel TSE is town, so feel free to disagree here especially. Others rely on meta. Each person has their own play.

However, I feel TSE is lacking a certain engagement and drive that he has as town. That's why I feel he's not a top town read. I still think he's town but not as town as LL or Phoenix.

I feel Phoenix is town because of the unabashedness he approaches the thread with but he doesn't have the predetermined reads like Cheeky does IMO.

Can you explain why Cheeky is town? Can you get on Karnage with me instead of LL?

[Titus]

However, I feel TSE is lacking a certain engagement and drive that he has as town. That's why I feel he's not a top town read. I still think he's town but not as town as LL or Phoenix.

Where does the town read come from then?

I like the things he says. I just feel like he's missing the conviction as to who scum are that I am used to from TSE.

[Titus]

Unless you need a primer on what good cop bad cop is, I feel like I explained it well enough.

People can have tip of their tongue thoughts that we can't articulate.

@Homura, I am not so sure I agree this is outside TSE's scumgames.

i understand good cop/bad cop perfectly fine and yes you explained well enough so thats why this...
"Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest."
... doesn't make sense to me. Why were you unable to lay out good cop/bad cop to phoenix then? what about that wouldn't be clear?

Sometimes it takes a second for the brain to catch up with the gut.

[Titus]

VOTE: Cheeky

L minus 1

[Titus]

VOTE: Cheeky

L minus 1

What made you move your vote from Karnage?

Deadline

[Titus]

VOTE: Cheeky

L minus 1

What made you move your vote from Karnage?

Deadline

We have a little over 2 days left no?

We do. I don't want a deadline scramble if Cheeky claims a PR.

[Titus]

We need to start coalescing on wagons. If majority isn't reached in a day and a half, we no lynch.

[Titus]

I'm also not reading Phoenix v LL or voting either one today.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

Fair, I suppose.

That’s fair

Ah.
Fair Point.

Fair.
And I’m actually not great at communicating.
I’m better at getting good reads/solves.

So you say you lean scum on Karnage yes?

Fair.

Fair enough.

fair enough I guess

Okay.

Think I've found my problem with this game.

Too much acquiescing going on. There's not enough energy in most pushes. Players back off too easily. Two options:

1.) Town are finding each other and mindmelding. Falls apart on a closer glance at the interactions I've quoted above, where Karnage and TSE in particular respond as such to players who are scumreading them.

or, more likely:

2.) Scum are taking advantage of the gamestate being in stasis and the lack of a coherent wagon to dissolve pushes and cause either 1.) a rushed mislynch or 2.) a no lynch entirely.

VOTE: Ph0enix

Prefer to go here today.

Or maybe some players are encouraging pointless spam wall fights and ignoring the townies who say it needs to stop. Just saying.

Cheeky and Karnage are good votes.

[Titus]

@Titus: Are you voting Cheeky solely because of her voting you for breaking RVS or there's also something else?

Smh, the general hostile attitude Cheeky has taken towards me feels fake.

[Titus]

players are encouraging pointless spam wall fights and ignoring the townies who say it needs to stop. Just saying.

Cheeky and Karnage are good votes.

Gathering you don’t think much of my theory. I’m not too confident on it myself, since I feel I could just be jumping on town who didn’t want to play. Can you case Cheeky for me?

Tbf I didn't read your theory. I'm not sure a lot of people will engage comments in walls of texts. That's my point here. You jumping back and forth would make sense if you were just flat out tired of the yelling. Instead, your vote encourages them to keep fighting ignoring the game as a whole.

Whatever your theory is, if you can't figure out why I am scumreading Cheeky and Karnage, then there ain't much helping you since it's like 75% of my ISO.

Since Non just unvoted Cheeky, my vote is the tiebreaker so back to Karnage.

VOTE: Karnage

[Titus]

TSE, are you scum? We literally kicked ass in a game where we didn't indulge this.

[Titus]

TSE, are you scum? We literally kicked ass in a game where we didn't indulge this.

Which one? You V.S. Alisae?

Yes

[Titus]

@Titus, what do you think about Karnage + Phoenix as scum?

If I didn't feel Phoenix was obvious town, I would totally think that was a possibility.

I just feel this is nothing more than a shut people up lynch which rewards LL for making the game less readable.

[Titus]

How am I rewarded for making the game less readable?

Getting the mislynch you want

[Titus]

How am I rewarded for making the game less readable?

Getting the mislynch you want

Do you scum read LL Titus?

No. I townread both him and Phoenix. I am not rewarding bad town play unless given no other option.

[Titus]

VOTE: Cheeky

[Titus]

@Titus, in 216 you asked me to expand upon my townread on Cheeky. In 221 I took the time to ISO every post Cheeky had made up to that point. You never talked about this post. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are you spent too many words to say Cheeky was aggressive early so he's town.

[Titus]

VOTE: Phoenix

Looks like Phoenix is the lynch today barring a spectacular claim and a deep flash wagon which is exactly what I didn't want to happen.

[Titus]

I'll be out most of the day.

[Titus]

VOTE: Phoenix

Looks like Phoenix is the lynch today barring a spectacular claim and a deep flash wagon which is exactly what I didn't want to happen.

You are voting me solely because I'm the most likely option for a lynch today?

Yup. We need to lynch. That's pretty standard. The deadline is in less than a day.

[Titus]

VOTE: Karnage

Phoenix, I wasn't fond of having to do that either.

[Titus]

@Titus: What's the theory behind the fact that you think lynching me here even though you TRed me was a better option than not lynching at all: general question, I'm curious.

A mislynch on someone gives town information to go off of and clear determination of who is right and who is wrong. If town can't decide on a lynch day 1, it will become progressively harder to get a lynch at all on following days. Since the only way to win is by lynching scum, we lynch day 1.

Join us on Karnage?

[Titus]

TSE is now a full blown scumread.

[Titus]

Karnage is at L minus 1

[Titus]

Extension please.

@Phoenix, I do support that theory. MS as a whole plays by that theory. To teach anything else is insane.

TSE saying he'd rather risk a No lynch is near a scumclaim on its own. Throw in he was doing it to deter the very Karnage wagon he's on, that screams distancing.

As for the theory itself, look at almost every finished in any queue. You should see someone getting lynched in 95 percent or more. It's the meta bc it works.

[Titus]

I'll catch up tonight. Real life happens.

My reads are still the same.

[Titus]

never played with titus so idk if the se thing is town indicative
it's just that I found it odd that she hadn't done something she said she'd do

This is the newbie queue. SEs are experienced players. There are some things that I cannot lie about as an SE. These are site meta, how to play, how to use the site etc.

If I failed to explain something please let me know. Also, I do believe in my skim you felt I was "mean". That's not a function of being an SE. In fact that's not good you feel that way.

[Titus]

Titus, don't misunderstand what I'm about to say. I want to believe you're town, but I don't like how you shut down my theory and flat-out refused to case Cheeky when I asked you to. Which should be the bare minimum if you want to push a counterwagon in opposition of a wagon you staunchly disliked. You proceeded to call my and LL's push on Phoenix as "poor townplay," then voted for Phoenix's wagon instead of convincing players to vote for your preferred Cheeky wagon.

I admit that I'm a player not quite at the standard I'd like to be, but I'm trying to improve. If you're town, all I ask is that you help me see where you're at.

This is a fair request for an explanation.

First, I don't really do "cases" when there's flat out not enough evidence to case. My Cheeky and Karnage reads were tonal at first. If there was something more to case, I would have. I just don't believe in upselling what isn't there.

I had been trying to convince players to vote Cheeky all day. I changed to Phoenix solely because we needed a lynch at deadline. No lynch is just flat out terrible. A no lynch should not happen in the newbie queue barring conftown claiming and no time to change wagons.

I have been playing long enough to know my reads get better with time and data to support them. Right now, I have three scumreads but only two possible scum (Cheeky, Karnage, TSE).

I want to see what Cheeky's sub does.

[Titus]

I know my theory is poorly-constructed. But it's all I've got, because if I'm honest with you, I haven't had a clue how to approach this game. That's why I'm asking you to case your reads, because you're more experienced than the rest of us and feel you'd be really helpful if you wanted to be.

Do not expect my reads to be better or more accurate because I am an IC. I prefer to keep my hands off D1 and asses what happened and why. Early game is my weakest point.

Day 1 is less about being right but observing the motivations of people imo. To me, if I get the best out of town, we win, even if my reads aren't so hot.

[Titus]

Titus when will you be around? I'm working now but I'll be semi-available for a while. Want to talk through stuff while I catch up?

I plan to be around in an hour and a half, two hours from now give it take.

[Titus]

Defining an alt for newbie players.

Some people on MS have multiple accounts. The primary accounts are mains. The secondary accounts are alternate accounts (or alts for short). When Wooper says he's a worst alt, he's saying his main account is "the worst".

[Titus]

Do not expect my reads to be better or more accurate because I am an IC. I prefer to keep my hands off D1 and asses what happened and why. Early game is my weakest point.

Day 1 is less about being right but observing the motivations of people imo. To me, if I get the best out of town, we win, even if my reads aren't so hot.

If that's your meta, I'll take your word for it. But I'd rather not stake a lynch on an unsubstantiated tonal read for now.

What do you think of Karnage's EoD posts?

I'm not sure what to think. Karnage could be scum betting on not a hammer. Karnage, if town, has lacked confidence in his reads. That's how I could see this happening.

The tone appears genuine but I am not sure what to conclude alignment wise. I'd bet the game on Karnage not being a town PR.

[Titus]

I’m the one that’s been on the Karnage wagon.
You’ve been hesitant about it Titus.
Why would I deter something I’m pushing?

By stating that you wouldn't compromise on a lynch to secure a lynch at all, you deter those who would hammer. You should know how detrimental a no lynch is. You seem more concerned with where your vote is rather than your effect on the thread.

[Titus]

It's ok. I am not really here either.

[Titus]

I've caught up. It's late here so I'll proooobably to sleep soon.

Before i do: Titus, you're my priority #1 to sort comfortably today. We should talk when we're both free.

ceejayvinoya: o hey u!!!! <3

Fair enough. I'm not reliably freeish until Sunday. Work+Social gatherings today. Tmo is my birthday.

[Titus]

My curious thing is why the votes switched to Karnage and not LL if the bulk of the votes were because of Phoenix v LL bogging up the thread?

[Titus]

I'm out today. Birthday stuff. Please consolidate. X post all games.

[Titus]

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

If LL and Phoenix were scummy for the same reason and the wagons were town motivated, I'd expect LL to get heat not Karnage.

[Titus]

take care of yourself LL, scary stuff being in high exposure areas atm. real life & not having covid-19 > mafia games

I agree. I kinda want to sort LL and Nom for VCA reasons.

I strongly feel TSE was being a town asshole yesterday.

I still feel Homura is town.

[Titus]

claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her for her early aggression.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

Using this to follow up.

First, I didn't like you because you liked me or because of the early aggression. I am bothered by you scumreading both TSE and me. My reexamination over the night phase has TSE at greater than 75% town. Putting us in a dichotomy is bad. Second, you do knowing one of your other scumreads, nom, will capitalize.

I am leaning against Cheeky now Whooper being scum. I am not 100% certain. The amount of backtracking wooper did bought him some time with me, but maybe I am a sucker for those who agree with me.

Suppose TSE and I are both town, what happens to your reads?

VOTE: Non

[Titus]

(C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

This quote here shows you're well aware scum Nom will vote me anyway because his read is waffling and depends on the group. Your scum Nom case is pretty good and the fact Nom is waffling on me without detailing why is something worth pushing.

It's ok to "want me sorted" but not to waffle and be unclear what, if anything, he wants sorted.

[Titus]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

[Titus]

I'm waiting for (A) crush to post, and (B) Titus to unvote Nom / Menalque with some random gut ping that outweighs her prior reasons for voting Nom.

This doesn't feel like you're genuinely intending to sort me. It's the type of tone you took with Phoenix yesterday.

[Titus]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

Let me know when you get there. I've got the feeling someone has agency captured me as I don't think tap/crush is the scumteam.

[Titus]

Holy crap. Lot of posting.

UNVOTE: Melanque aka Nom]/vote]

We needed a burst of energy. Not comfortable voting here atm.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Melanque

[Titus]

Why was karnage lynched?

so like reading back he kinda just didn't seem to have been townread and people flash compromised on him after ph0enix claimed jailkeeper and the ph wagon fell to pieces

ngl i wanted your slot eod but we had like two (2) votes for it and then non just lolhammered karnage

so

deadline compromise lynch

This is true. This doesn't explain why Karnage over Cheeky or LL as the deadline lynch or why we got into that spot despite me fighting it.

[Titus]

@Titus, who would you like to lynch today?

I'm reading Melanque's thoughts and reviewing the wagons again.

[Titus]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

Let me know when you get there. I've got the feeling someone has agency captured me as I don't think tap/crush is the scumteam.

Why do you think crush is scummy in the first place? I think their predecessor was obvtown

Never got that feeling. I mostly read it as an empty slot.

[Titus]

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

[Titus]

I also think cheeky is better than genuinely believing that QQ being a memelord is scum!indicative

QQ?

[Titus]

I don’t really know what scum!titus is capable of because I know there was some RL stuff going on both times I’ve gone against her but I wold certainly lean town there

This is fair. I can get you scum games prior to that real life issue if needed.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

I never said he could.

[Titus]

Titus do you still TR LL?

That read is in flux. LL's tone towards me today has been really force it level bad.

[Titus]

I'm also not reading Phoenix v LL or voting either one today.

Why did you not wanna read this titus?

I perceived it as t v t pointless fighting and wanted to shut it down immediately.

[Titus]

TSE is now a full blown scumread.

You don’t think town!tse is capable of making the aggressively bad “let’s lynch in Phoenix/LL to stop them fighting” push?

I do now. I reread the thread given I was wrong on Cheeky Karnage.

I feel that the TSE slot is

as close as to locktown as it gets

.

[Titus]

I

think

homura is town but it’s still solidly uncertain. She has equity with LL at the least

Hmm..

[Titus]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

I never said he could.

That's the point.

You also never said he couldn't, wheras you said Wooper couldn't.

This is semantic garbage. Neither can.

VOTE: LL

[Titus]

I really really think it’s exactly (wooper, LL)

You think both scum jump in and vote me with zero town on the wagon?

[Titus]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

I never said he could.

That's the point.

You also never said he couldn't, wheras you said Wooper couldn't.

This is semantic garbage. Neither can.

VOTE: LL

Exactly, neither can. I called you out on shutting down one and not the other.

You seem to agree both should have been shot down.

Yet me calling you out on your own cognitive dissonance earns me a vote? Can the OMGUS be any stronger?

Context is the key. Neither can obvtown but Wooper's rubbed me wrong. Melanque subbed into a dead slot.

You earned a vote because of your petulant attitude and rampant defense of Cheeky.

[Titus]

I don't think Melanque should have been shot down, but I don't believe a slot can be obvtown by merely posting.

[Titus]

So with one mislynch remaining for the town you place your vote on me for... disagreeing with you? If you are town, you play with with far too much emotion.

No. Your tone. You jumped from 0-100 combative on me.

For instance this cognitive dissonance read bullshit, I can hold an unpopular opinion (slots cannot obvtown by posting) doesn't require me to call out everyone who believes the opposite as I do. I called it out when the context irked me. Everything is about context. There are few black and white rules.

[Titus]

Actually, you know what

VOTE: Wooper

LL reminds me of newbie!me, always looking for black and white rules and getting tunnel heavy. LL can be scum but I'd rather lynch Wooper now. LL is in compromise spot.

[Titus]

That wasn't meant as combative. I just think their input is valuable. I have a feeling the EOD play for this DP will be very straightforward.

Your post above this one wasn't combative. Just look at your ISO and interaction with me. Almost every question is argumentative. Every assumption before I open my mouth to speak is that I am evil. That's what I mean by combative.

[Titus]

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

I call and raise you.

I'm not getting lynched today. If you persist, you will be lynched.

[Titus]

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

I call and raise you.

I'm not getting lynched today.

If you persist

, you will be lynched.

Care to elaborate?

No but if you read between the lines, you should know Wooper is lock scum or incredibly dumbtelling or both.

[Titus]

I would really like it if you did elaborate. Explain it like I'm five.

I want Wooper locked down first. I called him. He has to raise or fold before I out my cards.

[Titus]

What do you want him to say, that his vote is staying on you? Do you want him to unvote because you threatened him?

I can't answer this yet.

[Titus]

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

Come again?

You're town. I'm town. Trust the power of the force.

[Titus]

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

Come again?

You're town. I'm town. Trust the power of the force.

Sure sure

Why did you vote non rather than your scumread (Wooper) earlier

Because I had liked LL's case there. I'm not 100% sure it's not some oddball thing like Wooper/Non but it would be an odd as fuck stance for Melanque to take.

Aside from you town and Wooper 75%scum, I'm a bit confused.

[Titus]

Although, there is a course of action that could occur this DP which nullifies my obvtown read on Crush, and would make me very upset with QQ.

@Titus, could you remind me where you went from scum to locktown on the TSE slot?

Between d1 and d2

[Titus]

I think my read on Menalque will depend on his reaction to the Wooper/me interactions recently. By recently, I refer to when I called Wooper. He needs to exclude those from any towncase.

[Titus]

Sorry I stopped being here. Real life is imploding with these court closures. It'll be done in a day or two.

[Titus]

It feels that everyone has meaningfully contributed to the DP and we are mostly going to be waiting for Menalque and Titus as they deal with IRL. Life > mafia and I don't want them to feel rushed if it takes them a day or two to get things settled. Even though we have nearly 3 days left, I wouldn't mind (A) extending the DP by 24 hours preemptively in order to preserve the quality of gameplay and, (B) pausing prod timers until 48 hours remain in the DP so that people do not feel obligated to force content halfheartedly while things are getting situated IRL.

+1 Let's extend the deadline 1 week.

Please consider this an official request.

[Titus]

Do you think a week might be too long and cause people to lose interest? The deadline currently ends Friday, what if we extend it through the weekend? Feel free to say no, you know your situation better than me.

I'd be fine with a shorter extension. Don't know about M.

[Titus]

Sunday is fine.

VLA 24 hours

[Titus]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

Wooper, you're really shorting your utility here

[Titus]

wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta

Catching up, but this is not true

[Titus]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

Yuck

[Titus]

wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta

Catching up, but this is not true

okay, that's my bad

what are your reads as of this moment, Titus?

Scum in LL Wooper Homura

[Titus]

The lack of content from ceejay, Titus, and crush is killing the game because it means there's not any fresh insight coming through, and it's also meaning that in the case that most of this is TvT then scum are able to simply blend into the background with inactive town players.

If you think there's a lack of content from me, you're making a huge mistake.

I am lock clearing ceejay even more than you.

[Titus]

On 784 and 788, I'll elaborate if I die.

On 776, Melanque's sub in convinced me he was town. I've scumread Cheeky since the beginning. Wooper panicked with two votes on him and wanted to know if I was mislynchable, so he softed a PR. When I called him on it, but refused to claim, he folded. Wooper isn't likely town here.

Also, your logical premise is backwards. If I am town, CJN has a high likelihood of being town. CJN being town says shit about my alignment.

[Titus]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

This is why Wooper is scum. His play is about fishing the TPR, not finding scum.

[Titus]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

What if Crush claims TPR? If he does, the game is solved, no?

If Crush claims TPR, either a) he gives a result or b) he gets CCed c) he has no result and he wants to avoid being blocked again. That covers all universes even the false ones I believe. Some may overlap.

[Titus]

I think I tried like quite hard to work with you overall especially given you rep'd into a poe slot tbqh

I've really felt like you haven't showed as much read development as I have, our reads blatantly jar, you didn't hanlde my slot in good faith, and you're like expecting me to bend over backwards to extract more content from you now that I actively think you're outed scum at L-1?

I'd love to work with you but not when I have to do 90% of the work and it feels like you're conversing with me nearly exclusively to try and make me look bad

Why can't Homura be scum?

[Titus]

The lack of content from ceejay, Titus, and crush is killing the game because it means there's not any fresh insight coming through, and it's also meaning that in the case that most of this is TvT then scum are able to simply blend into the background with inactive town players.

If you think there's a lack of content from me, you're making a huge mistake.

I am lock clearing ceejay even more than you.

Since I repped in, you haven’t been here to talk as much as I want and I would expect more from you as a strong town voice. Like I very much feel like I’ve been in an uphill battle talking to LL and wooper and it would have been nice to have you at least participating in that

I am not on lockdown like a good chunk of the rest of the thread. I also am the errand girl for our household. It leads me to being very busy. I'm doing all I can.

[Titus]

Melanque's conduct is a lot different than nom's and the wagon on him feels built on hysteria than actual evidence. Particularly Wooper's comments about Mel is good at reading between the lines so we should lynch him for that. That's wrong because scum have day chat in newbies now I believe.

[Titus]

I'm kind of lowkey thinking that LL may be just very bad town here now

It's why I changed my vote. The thing is I'm not sure. Regardless of alignment, he reminds me of Titus.

[Titus]

like the attempts to coalesce around the team being either "mena + Titus" or "wooper + LL" is wrong I think

Not sure why Homura got cleared, regardless of anyone else's alignment.

[Titus]

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

this was very obviously a soft

+1

[Titus]

Titus, I'm still feeling sort of paranoid about you but what do you think of crush's play here the last couple of pages?

Crush posted?

[Titus]

Happy cake day.

Ceejay, can you vote Wooper?

[Titus]

Wooper is at L minus 1

[Titus]

Homura, you're the tiebreaker.

[Titus]

Let's just mass claim. I don't see a world where mafia doesn't already know the TPR hint. As unlikely as it may be, I do see a world where you get lynched, I get night killed, and a CJV + Titus scumteam mislynches Tracker Crush next DP, because everyone who is in-on-it, so to say would be dead or mafia.

We aren't massclaiming. Stop fishing.

[Titus]

Wooper, what did you mean when you said you weren't getting lynched this DP?

exactly what i've been saying the whole time tbh.
i am very obvtown.
my predecessor was obvtown.
i am only being pushed by scum.
if this dp comes down to a 1v1 between me/mena, i refuse to lose it.

You just said you don't think I'm scum. My two biggest townreads are on you. So just who is scum?

[Titus]

Well CPV didn't outright claim friendly neighbor and that's the way it should be. We aren't discussing this further.

[Titus]

Why wouldn't we CC this phase? We have 1 mislynch left. In case of a CC, we can literally lynch incorrectly and then get the mafia next DP, whereas if we lynch town this DP holding back a CC, and it comes out next DP, we lose the guaranteed kill on mafia.

Because a CC requires a claim first. No one is claiming.

Mathematically there are a few possibilities.

[Titus]

LL, why did you unvote Mena?

[Titus]

Is this why you unvoted Mena?

[Titus]

I'll probably just end up not trying to develop scumreads for the rest of the game and instead sheep whomever I find to be most-town. This DP it would be CJV. If he dies in the night, my entire play next DP would be to reread the game and decide who looks most town and sheep their vote, etc. It's not how I want to play the game, especially after putting this much time into it, but I don't think I can meaningfully scumhunt in this game anymore.

Can you talk to me about Homura?

[Titus]

What do you want to know about him? I can talk to you about every player in the game.

What's your read on him? Tbh, I don't feel to comfortable with him.

[Titus]

I want an opinion. Is Homura town or scum?

[Titus]

+1 Regardless of your or his alignment, that is the appropriate approach to take.

[Titus]

Honestly, I think I was overreacting last night. Between a 14-day self quarantine and my job + other places of gathering being shut down for 30-days I have probably been getting a bit stir-crazy, especially since most of my human interaction in that time has come from a game where I am to expect others to lie and attempt to manipulate me.

LL, this time is draining on is all. The drain is why I am not performing as well too. I acknowledged as much to Menalque. I still do mine but it could stop anytime. I have to balance my job with the risk of hurting those I love and the possibility of needing to prove my essential nature. Then there's the PTSD getting triggered in my case.

It's important to be honest with yourself and do your best regardless of alignment. Your best is the best under the circumstances. You're not alone. There's a discussion thread in GD. The Speakeasy has even more content. There's also mental health professionals.

[Titus]

I'll be taking the day for my own mental health.

Anyone is welcome to chat outside of game with me provided we don't talk about ongoing games. Mental health is important.

[Titus]

I'm leaning on voting Wooper, but I'm almost as paranoid about Menalque. Penny for your thoughts on the posts I quoted in1309.

Menalque is pretty sure the scums are Wooper and crush. The other two posts (Titus and you) are for the occasion that crush somehow is town.

I am only certain you and Mena likely are. LL reminds me of me when I was a newbie here, which makes him incredibly smart and hard for me to read. Crush is not active enough for me to townread. Same with Homura but if Homura votes scum, I'd be ok taking Homura off the lynch table.

[Titus]

Titus is a player with enough range, I think, to be bussing here and going for the in in 3p lylo. It means that cheeky was doing some super early distancing which makes it less likely, but I just don’t want to rule it out

Grumbles

[Titus]

So I’m not saying titus is lock!scum if she’s alive in 3p but I am saying to very carefully reconsider her and whether her voting scum today is actually clearing + to go back through her associations with cheeky/wooper slot

And those stand up.

[Titus]

Titus is a player with enough range, I think, to be bussing here and going for the in in 3p lylo. It means that cheeky was doing some super early distancing which makes it less likely, but I just don’t want to rule it out

Grumbles

Is that unfair?

Not really. Reevaluating everyone is good in lylo if it gets that far. The Titus could be a scum God is not fair.

[Titus]

Scum Titus hammers you awhile ago on account of deadline.

[Titus]

This might just be Crush and Homura.

[Titus]

Then again, scum Homura could just decide and take their pick...

[Titus]

This might just be Crush and Homura.

Did someone order a hot take, steamed and boiled?

Don't make me hungrier than I am.

[Titus]

Well if you and M decide to stop your cold war, we could lynch Crush.

[Titus]

crush/homura actually makes sense

...wow.

Well you're on a clock Homura. Either decide now or we will.

[Titus]

i don't think mena will support a crush lynch
because tbqh i think crush is his scumbuddy
so i'm not really interested in wagoning there

i just got mislynched d1 in my last game because scum were like "hey if u guys get {scumbuddy} to l-1 i'll hammer before deadline" then just.. flaked
it's not something i'm interested in doing again

Ugh.

Cold War it is.

[Titus]

If one of you two is scum, my money is on the rolecop given the friendly neighbor suggestion and how stalled the game is.

Also, trust is not my forte re: Homura.

[Titus]

I thought ceejay visited you last night titus?

I neither confirm nor deny.

[Titus]

partner disincentivised to bus power role given setups are townsided

+1

Mel, vote Crush. Then I will. Homura will have to hammer there.

[Titus]

*Menalque damn it

[Titus]

If crush!scum

Then wooper and I are just gonna go through this all again tomorrow

Yup but we'll be down a scum.

[Titus]

I'm going back to bed.

[Titus]

Ty homura

[Titus]

Menalque and Titus really impressed me. Looking back at their posts helped me immensely. Honestly, once I started realizing Wooper + Crush just makes 0 sense, what got me to look into Homura more was Titus' gut ping onto Phi and Cheeky's problem with it. I just admitted that Titus has played much better than me this game and decided to look into her reads instead of my own.

I'm flattered by this. I still meant you remind me of me as a newbie. I hope you stick around for a long time.

[Titus]

I don't think I deserved to win this game.

You did. Being gracefully wrong is a hard lesson to learn. You were expressive but not overbearing. Not all town will have perfect reads. It's more important to work together.