Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[ceejayvinoya]

Heck yeah.

Hi ducky!

Anyway, no one asked Phoenix who he was going to jail?

[ceejayvinoya]

On second thought, never mind. That's actually not useful.

[ceejayvinoya]

Before i do: Titus, you're my priority #1 to sort comfortably today. We should talk when we're both free.

This please. I'm halfway through and I'm having trouble sorting cheeky and Titus.

[ceejayvinoya]

[ceejayvinoya]

Tse was very much against the environment that LL vs Phoenix is bringing into the game. He believes it favors mafia, especially if both sides are town. I'm not a big fan of it myself, but I see that it makes sense, reading through LL vs Phoenix was a chore to me.

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: Titus

Oooh spicy

[ceejayvinoya]

Yeah.

I'm more concerned with non imh's vote yesterday tbh

[ceejayvinoya]

You go sort out Titus first.

I'm very curious to see how that will go.

[ceejayvinoya]

take care of yourself LL, scary stuff being in high exposure areas atm. real life & not having covid-19 > mafia games

I agree. I kinda want to sort LL and Nom for VCA reasons.

I strongly feel TSE was being a town asshole yesterday.

I still feel Homura is town.

This is a bit vague

How does vca reasons apply to LL?

[ceejayvinoya]

ceejay, can I have a readslist from you?

After reading day 1 earlier I got LL and Homura as town and everything else on null.

I liked Titus' earlier day 1 posts but nothing much else from that slot

Couldn't read qq/crash properly and want more from there

I dunno how to read cheeky but I like Wooper's day 2 posts so far

Then there's non who has yet to explain that hammer yesterday

[ceejayvinoya]

claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her for her early aggression.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

Using this to follow up.

First, I didn't like you because you liked me or because of the early aggression. I am bothered by you scumreading both TSE and me. My reexamination over the night phase has TSE at greater than 75% town. Putting us in a dichotomy is bad. Second, you do knowing one of your other scumreads, nom, will capitalize.

I am leaning against Cheeky now Whooper being scum. I am not 100% certain. The amount of backtracking wooper did bought him some time with me, but maybe I am a sucker for those who agree with me.

Suppose TSE and I are both town, what happens to your reads?

VOTE: Non

Woah what's your vote on non for

[ceejayvinoya]

That's very confusing since on the same post you were leaning on Wooper being scum

[ceejayvinoya]

This'll be fun

[ceejayvinoya]

Okay, I quite like homura on pg12 even if I don’t really like her content

Pretty much how I decided to townread homura day 1

As well as her post 390+

Hmmm

[ceejayvinoya]

@LL I'm curious on where you got your crush obvtown read

[ceejayvinoya]

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

Come again?

[ceejayvinoya]

I’m caught up now btw @all

Why is Titus townie again? She's practically directionless and uncomfortable this day phase

[ceejayvinoya]

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

Come again?

You're town. I'm town. Trust the power of the force.

Sure sure

Why did you vote non rather than your scumread (Wooper) earlier

[ceejayvinoya]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

Hmm actually agree with this post though
Let me know when you get there. I've got the feeling someone has agency captured me as I don't think tap/crush is the scumteam.

Why do you think crush is scummy in the first place? I think their predecessor was obvtown

Never got that feeling. I mostly read it as an empty slot.

[ceejayvinoya]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

Hmm actually agree with this post though
Let me know when you get there. I've got the feeling someone has agency captured me as I don't think tap/crush is the scumteam.

Why do you think crush is scummy in the first place? I think their predecessor was obvtown

Never got that feeling. I mostly read it as an empty slot.

Ebwop
I mean I agree with this

[ceejayvinoya]

This game is nuts.

I loved Titus early day 1 posts but I feel the quality and enthusiasm of her posts dropped off townie territory as the game dragged on.

Cheeky I was very sus on earlier but I liked wooper's day 2 posts.

Need some input from homura and crush while I think this through.

[ceejayvinoya]

Be more specific? What about Titus?

[ceejayvinoya]

Be more specific? What about Titus?

Assume I am actually being as specific as possible when I ask, "Why Titus?" If it means something to you, great. If you still don't know what I mean, then it's probably a pointless question anyway.

I'd rather not answer that question then.

I don't think you should be doing what I think you're trying to do

[ceejayvinoya]

i want this towncasing titus asap

I was actually working myself up to asking Menalque this so whew, thanks

Time to sit back and watch again I guess

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: menalque

i want this towncasing titus asap

I'm not sure what this statement means.

Menalque thinks Titus is town

Town case basically means prove the slot is town

Wooper wants Menalque to town case Titus

[ceejayvinoya]

Yeaaaah jam timee

[ceejayvinoya]

ELI5 why TSE is suddenly (almost) universally town read?

Am surprised as you are, honestly.

Not worried about it yet though.

[ceejayvinoya]

@Everyone: Between Titus, Crush, Homura, and Wooper, who is most town, and why? Why is most scum, and why? I would like if everyone answered.

Towniest to scummiest would probably be

Homura > Wooper > Titus = crush

Homura has good posts, consistently townie to me both d1 and d2

On the other side of the list, I haven't seen much from crush yet, though I'm placing him on a bit of an equal standing with Titus, who Wooper thinks is town

[ceejayvinoya]

Same. Take care everyone.

[ceejayvinoya]

so uh cjv
where's your vote falling here?

Mena, tho I was sort of waiting for his Titus towncase

[ceejayvinoya]

you did the same thing when I repped in btw

menalque i'm gonna need you to level w me pretty quick if you're scum dude

like before I even got here really you were trying to encourage a scum perception of my slot and set me up to look bad

it's the same thing LL has been doing but slightly differently

I didn't quite notice this earlier smh

I know Wooper has reason to believe non may be scum at that time but yeah

[ceejayvinoya]

Okay, I quite like homura on pg12 even if I don’t really like her content

Pretty much how I decided to townread homura day 1

As well as her post 390+

Hmmm

so what's the implication of this for your read on me then?

Before I replaced Tse I read like half the game and early d1 I have a town lean on Titus and an awkward!cheeky read that I do not know what to do with.

Then I also have that homura townread.

+town to you but I still have some catching up to do.

[ceejayvinoya]

I’m caught up now btw @all

Why is Titus townie again? She's practically directionless and uncomfortable this day phase

I mean I think Titus is town but less for today and more for her D1 play, although I've said that she's probably one of my less confident reads here, esp. due to not really being aware of how she plays scum when she's committed to it

Sort of agree. I do like d1 Titus.

[ceejayvinoya]

allllll of your postssssss are liessssss

I don't like they're [p]112[/p] though
he intentionally changed letters around in the spoiler
n o c m maybe that's code for no comment, maybe he gave up early on

I just noticed this and it should be incredibly town!indicative for my slot

the post he's talking about
is more likely to be a TPR crumb than anything else
the fact he noticed it at all is wolfy
the fact he brought it up without committing to what he actually thought it meant was even wolfier

Why would noticing this at all would be wolfy?

His post says he did not know what it meant at that time.

[ceejayvinoya]

Now that I think about it, non voted Karnage after noticing that Karnage edited Titus' post and also claimed vanilla.

That's actually nice.

[ceejayvinoya]

like i can exactly see that being talked about in the scum pt
that is why he would remember a random ass post like that
but the fact he came here pointing it out but pretending not to have any thoughts about it?

ugh i just realised i'm fighting you about your own slot's alignment
i think it's slimy that he pointed it out but pretended not to have any thoughts about it
i think his actual *thoughts* r what u save for the scum pt, not noticing it in the first place

I mean why does he comment like that

like why bring up very specifically what the change is but not the fact that it spells out mason

look dude i'm not going to pretend i can read non lmh's mind but i know a guilty conscience when i see one -the fact he clearly HAD thoughts but withheld them makes me think he did it to look town.

Lol.

Ducky this is very contradictory with one of your earlier posts where you said that non lolhammers and does weird stuff as either alignment.

non why did you hammer your townread before deadline while i was still catching up?

Does town!Non lolhammer like that?

This is part of my dilemma tbh. I could see non lolhammering as either alignment and he has a meta of kinda just whimsically lolhammering or doing sweet fa

I think his pred was scummy. The lolhammer comes from non as either alignment but given he had an actual read trajectory i'm pretty sure town!non can give us a convincing update of what his actual thoughts are.

Sorry if you were looking for a more decisive answer, ive played exactly one game with non and frankly getting his alignment right required mighty strong forceps

[ceejayvinoya]

oh the other thing I didn't like about LL is that I do think phoe was obvtown and so pushing him was scummy

i also thought ph0e was towny but like the push against him felt largely good-faithy tbh

???????

So if I townread somebody

But he's also being wagoned for "good reasons" at the time

It's okay?

[ceejayvinoya]

I still find 635 to be the fakest distancing attempt I have seen in my life. Titus voted Non less than an hour before his prod expired and would be replaced. This is the easiest SvS vote anyone could ever be faced with. Start the wagon against a scum buddy who is literally both being FOS'd

and

being replaced as you place the vote, then unvote them for no reason once they are replaced, a la 742.

The Non vote did ping me as odd, especially since the rest of her post was completely unrelated to Non. Every part of her post should've pointed to a vote on Wooper.

P-edit: The gang's half here.

I pointed it out earlier, and this was her answer.

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

Come again?

You're town. I'm town. Trust the power of the force.

Sure sure

Why did you vote non rather than your scumread (Wooper) earlier

Because I had liked LL's case there. I'm not 100% sure it's not some oddball thing like Wooper/Non but it would be an odd as fuck stance for Melanque to take.

Aside from you town and Wooper 75%scum, I'm a bit confused.

[ceejayvinoya]

@homura @cjv @wooper , how likely do you think titus + LL is?

Not likely at all

[ceejayvinoya]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

Yes you were I saw it

I'll look for it again later

[ceejayvinoya]

hmmm
@cjv
if you can somehow prove to homura that you're town this game gets a lot easier
if mena flips green this is doubly true

Oooh look at me homura I'm so obviously town

[ceejayvinoya]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

wooper, you were definitely softing TPR

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

this was very obviously a soft

Never mind. Mena got it

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: wooper

Want this more than the other.

[ceejayvinoya]

Hey CJV. Does it make more sense for you to locktown read Titus, or for Titus to locktown read you?

I don't get this. Both are possible and both could make equal sense.

[ceejayvinoya]

........ lol
i'm starting to doubt my townreads
it's mena + one of {cjv, homura}.
i don't individually scumread either of them but the way they've handled this 1v1 has been hilariously wolfy

lowkey waiting for homura to pop in and lolhammer me

You didn't even acknowledge everything I posted and went straight to this

What am I supposed to do

Sigh

[ceejayvinoya]

Wow nice job man, very insightful. You're a real good townie boiii

[ceejayvinoya]

Wooper, what exactly about the way I handled the 1v1 was "hilariously wolfy?" And why did you think I would come and lolhammer you when I've been reading your slot town all game?

Why is CJ in both your town and scum pools?

Well logic dictates that if mena is scum, he has to have a partner. It can't be anyone on mena's wagon so it has to be one of us apparently.

[ceejayvinoya]

What do you need consolidation on

I'll be around for about an hour more

[ceejayvinoya]

I'm leaning on voting Wooper, but I'm almost as paranoid about Menalque. Penny for your thoughts on the posts I quoted in1309.

Menalque is pretty sure the scums are Wooper and crush. The other two posts (Titus and you) are for the occasion that crush somehow is town.

[ceejayvinoya]

Point me to what pings you on those posts? Because that posts sort of imply paranoid behavior from mena which would be weird if it's from scum

[ceejayvinoya]

Sorry about that

Who do you think has the highest partner equity on a red Wooper flip?

Also crush, actually

[ceejayvinoya]

*shrug*

It doesn't make sense for Wooper to be scum with titus or mena (lol)
Maybe LL, but everyone trs him for some reason
Then there's you and crush.

So yeah, more likely crush to me

[ceejayvinoya]

Not planning to think of "what if he's town" stuff just yet. Hopefully I'll have more info if that ever happens

[ceejayvinoya]

Oh I get that. I don't blame you. I was there a few days ago on should I hammer Menalque or vote Wooper thing. Decided my vote was okay when Wooper pretty much ignored everything I posted.

[ceejayvinoya]

Does scum!Wooper normally openwolf?

I like to say he usually posts like this as scum but I'm not very good at describing and claiming meta.

Here's a past game I played with him though, where he is scum. (His name here is "the worst")

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=81421

[ceejayvinoya]

crush/homura actually makes sense

I'm deceased

[ceejayvinoya]

Yeaaaah fugging finally

[ceejayvinoya]

Sort of wish I died instead of Titus but eh

[ceejayvinoya]

Not really. LL kept fishing me for some sort of confirmation that I'm pr, which I answered as vaguely as possible. Then LL stated his theory that I'm a pr and visited Titus and Titus sort of played along and said she will neither confirm nor deny that.

If Titus softed, I probably missed it

[ceejayvinoya]

I don't know tbh

[ceejayvinoya]

What does Wooper gain from implying that you're PR, though?

Especially since he knew Titus was tracker?

I don't know tbh

Only possible explanations for it would be he either forgot about it or he pretended to not know that to get Titus off his wagon.

[ceejayvinoya]

I'm sort of leaning LL as well. Crush has a hard Sr on cheeky day 1 which I thought is pretty genuine.

Might have to reread LL's iso first.

[ceejayvinoya]

Intent to vote LL

[ceejayvinoya]

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance any scum is outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

EBWOP

Why not try working this out yourself?

This is a bit ooc for you compared to earlier

[ceejayvinoya]

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance any scum is outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

EBWOP

Tbh I was set on this since Wooper flipped scum

[ceejayvinoya]

Sigh. No idea what to do with this atm.

[ceejayvinoya]

Homura

[ceejayvinoya]

Welcome happyorange

[ceejayvinoya]

Because if the roleblocker moves, mafia loses the roleblocker if he's being tracked instead of goon. TSE moved off Titus' lynch target at L1, they might have suspected that moving off a popular lynch target at L1 could attract tracker and therefore chose to send goon.

This is ridiculous reaching and you know it.

[ceejayvinoya]

I don't think I'm going to have time to read through the whole game before the end of the day, but people should be discussing the way CheekyTeeky forgot LL had been given Lunar's role card and was treating them as separate player slots.

Well spotted

[ceejayvinoya]

Do we have outed night actions that I'm not aware of? I don't understand the argument LL is making about CJN being locktown. (I assume locktown is another way of saying they are clear?) There were two wolves who could have made the kill night 1, someone being jailkept makes them less likely to be scum from a mechanical standpoint but it doesn't clear them. But the argument is moot unless Titus tracked Phoenix night 1 and saw them visit someone, because we have no other way to confirm who Phoenix targeted with their night action.

Titus heavily implied tracking my slot by locking me as town d2. This clears my slot of being the guy who roleblocked the jailkeeper night 1 which means I'm not the roleblocker.

[ceejayvinoya]

Homura

Is hammering your partner in this gamestate the more valuable play over guaranteeing lylo?

Welcome HappyOrange!

Sure it's a guaranteed lylo, but a useless one.

I'm sure you could puzzle out the rest of my reason from that.

I can't see Menalque slot being scum at all.

[ceejayvinoya]

Because if the roleblocker moves, mafia loses the roleblocker if he's being tracked instead of goon. TSE moved off Titus' lynch target at L1, they might have suspected that moving off a popular lynch target at L1 could attract tracker and therefore chose to send goon.

This is ridiculous reaching and you know it.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? What do you think is reaching and why?

He's implying scum will play badly on purpose to make his argument work.

Do we have outed night actions that I'm not aware of? I don't understand the argument LL is making about CJN being locktown. (I assume locktown is another way of saying they are clear?) There were two wolves who could have made the kill night 1, someone being jailkept makes them less likely to be scum from a mechanical standpoint but it doesn't clear them. But the argument is moot unless Titus tracked Phoenix night 1 and saw them visit someone, because we have no other way to confirm who Phoenix targeted with their night action.

Titus heavily implied tracking my slot by locking me as town d2. This clears my slot of being the guy who roleblocked the jailkeeper night 1 which means I'm not the roleblocker.

I'd appreciate links to the posts where you think she implied that, if you're up for it. I think that's pretty bad reasoning regardless, I've seen villagers flip reads overnight with no mechanical basis for doing so, and even if Titus tracked you and saw you visit no one that isn't a reason for them to clear you.

Here you go orange.

TSE is now a full blown scumread.

Titus scumread my slot a lot on day 1. There are more posts from Titus about this scumread, but you get the idea.

TSE is now a full blown scumread.

You don’t think town!tse is capable of making the aggressively bad “let’s lynch in Phoenix/LL to stop them fighting” push?

I do now. I reread the thread given I was wrong on Cheeky Karnage.

I feel that the TSE slot is

as close as to locktown as it gets

.

Day 2, however, Titus suddenly has this consistent "TSE is town" read, even going so far as to italicize me being as close to locktown as it gets.

Without night results there is no way to know whether or not the roleblocker targeted anyone or who made the kill. I think you have to assume that Titus knew that CheekyTeeky wasn't the roleblocker in order for that read to make even a little bit of sense, and that isn't knowledge that player had.

Titus didn't need to know that cheeky wasn't the roleblocker. Here:

Titus already know Phoenix is the jail keeper.

This means she now knows the setup and knows that the scum pr will be the roleblocker.

Titus then tracks my slot n1 and then knows I visited no one.

This means I didn't roleblock or kill Phoenix n1.

[ceejayvinoya]

I don't think I'm going to have time to read through the whole game before the end of the day, but people should be discussing the way CheekyTeeky forgot LL had been given Lunar's role card and was treating them as separate player slots.

Well spotted

How has this affected your read on LL, if you think that's a good observation? You may have talked about it already in a part of the game that I haven't read, but what's the substance of your read on LL?

It's actually forcing me to look at LL as townier since I have trouble believing it's possible for cheeky to mess up that on their reads.

[ceejayvinoya]

Ohhh, Phoenix claimed day 1. That really simplifies things. Really wish I had known this sooner.

I thought you already knew lols

Sorry about that.

[ceejayvinoya]

Ok I've somewhat caught up, haven't really got the chance to really analyze everything but I guess that will have to wait until D2 or later. So far I actually quite dislike a lot of slots, of which I dislike Cheeky the most. Cheeky, would you say that you are someone that's easy to convince/too agreeable? Because you have voted for a lot of players D1 and to me it feels like you're trying to catch every wave that might hit the shore. Do you really think LL's post was that good to immediately let go of your Titus vote?

The Homura slot had a lot of posts I can't really place in the early pages, a lot of fluff and I also really hate meta arguments especially in a noobie game. Tapio slot had some questionable posts and seems also easily swayed. Karnage is still kinda whatever to me. I do like the #201 but I dislike the fixedness in his reads, still I've seen some town players do this in the games I've played years ago and since I still do like the effort and analysis LL is a town lean for now. To me the Phoenix slot isn't that noteworthy right now, which make the early TR other players have given him (before like pag 10'ish, I will have to look up later who exactly these players were) strange to me. The only minor thing I dislike in this slot is the seriousness he used in approaching my slot. TSE feels meh to me, I didn't particularly like the 'mafioso' thing and I think the constant formation of teams on D1 isn't that relevant, feels like a way to add to your postcount without really contributing. I like Titus the most aside from LL, mainly because of the early interactions regarding the 'gut vote' and the good cop bad cop thing.

So for me now: town leaning LL, Titus. Mafia leaning: Tapio, maybe Homura, maybe TSE but mainly VOTE: Cheeky

Well at least I can understand Crush. You're probably town as newbies tend to scumread me.

Also don't like this, saw someone post something along the lines of 'why would we lynch you (SE) instead of going for noobies, didnt like that either. Its a really easy way to completely kill what someone is saying, it might be true in a sense but it isnt cooperative at all.

Cheeky, would you say that you are someone that's easy to convince/too agreeable? Because you have voted for a lot of players D1 and to me it feels like you're trying to catch every wave that might hit the shore. Do you really think LL's post was that good to immediately let go of your Titus vote?

The voting thing is my way of sorting, I'm predominantly a reaction test player. Im not really a fan of you accusing me of trying to lynch everyone when it's pretty obvious that's not what im doing. I have been accused of both tunnelling and voting too much which is lol.

I feel like you're asking leading questions that are intended to be rhetorical.

Yes the first one is definitely a leading question, and probably not a very informative one. As for the partial answered 2nd question, could you give your thoughts on the reactions your votes have given you? Who do you want to lynch?

What does everyone feel about these posts in regards to crush/cheeky?

[ceejayvinoya]

Do you think crush's scumread of cheeky there is genuine or not

[ceejayvinoya]

As for the Crush/Teeky interaction, I can see it going both ways. What's been taking up more of my headspace is whether or not Crush let's Teeky get to L-1. 315, and 316 are making me wonder whether a Crush + Teeky team is actually viable. It's possible that Crush wanted to scumread his partner early to distance, but coming into the game and putting a heavily suspected teammate at L-2 feels like an overly bold strategy. His entrance still feels like a softball SR, and Cheeky just ignored it. How likely is it that Crush expected Cheeky to give him an easy out to drop his scumread on her and she just didn't do it before the wagon picked up steam and he was committed to it?

If not Crush, though, then who? My gut tells me to look at Homura next. CJV has a point that getting to LYLO by hammering Menal would be pointless as Wooper was 100% the lynch if Menal flipped green, and Homura would be largely suspected at 2v1 LYLO for hammering Menal. Under the assumption that Wooper always dies yesterday or today, and that if Wooper dies yesterday, Homura never dies today, I would think hammering Wooper appears to be the better play. Remember when Titus gut pinged from Tapio (Orange) to Phi (Homura) in RVS and Cheeky started to hard tunnel Titus? 23.

Looking more at Cheeky's ISO, she happily tagged along with my push on TSE when I replaced in, making me more town on CJV. While Crush's entrance feels softball towards Cheeky, it also feels like his analysis of Cheeky catching every wave is just true. I feel it's a lot harder as scum to find a true reason to attack your scummates in order to distance than it is for town to find true reasons to push scum. UNVOTE: Crush. We're low on time, however. We gotta work fast.

You're on fire today lols

I was wondering if anyone else is seeing how unlikely the pairing was

[ceejayvinoya]

The more I read from crush and LL, the less I think that they're sided with Wooper. Ugh

[ceejayvinoya]

Who's scum, @crush?

[ceejayvinoya]

VOTE: Homura

Want this more.

[ceejayvinoya]

You played really well homura. Those lag issues sucked

So did you LL, for voting homura over crush this phase.

Nice game