Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Wooper]

welcome wooper!

[Wooper]

wait that's ME

[Wooper]

I need to sleep here it's past 11pm. I'll read up tomorrow /o/

[Wooper]

hi TSE!
could you give me a quick rundown of your reads rn?

[Wooper]

if I had more than 24 hours I'd play this a bit cooler but
in the interest of covering ground quickly
please elaborate?

[Wooper]

Titus when will you be around? I'm working now but I'll be semi-available for a while. Want to talk through stuff while I catch up?

[Wooper]

Never had tapioca before. Is it any good?

Never had tapioca before. Is it any good?

VOTE: Phi

Gut.

Titus wins my vanity rvs townread

[Wooper]

Hello everyone. 2 votes on me already!

Actually this one double wins a double vanity double rvs townread

[Wooper]

Never had tapioca before. Is it any good?

VOTE: Phi

Gut.

Strong enough gut ping for you to move off the rvs wagon prior to reaction from Tapi. Hmm.

I can see a newbie mafia trying to cover up another mafia that way. But a SE player likely wouldn't be doing that, right?

I am a big fan of this entrance.

He's come in with the "two votes on me" thing without feeling necessarily obliged to act on it or do anything to alter the situation & this as an analytical post feels sincere and doesn't feel overstated.

Often newbie scum feel a pang of anxiety at being lolwagoned at the start of their first game. Often experienced scum playing in a new environment feel compelled to flex and show their stuff and overdisplay their {analytical, manipulative} prowess

This guy is posting pretty fast and doesn't seem all that phased

It's pretty subconscious but I think it's a reasonable confidence anti-survivalism tell

[Wooper]

oh Titus I'm a worst alt jsyk

I'm gonna be watching this exchange but I am also keen to hear your thoughts on my catchup in as good a time as you can offer them

pedit: fantastic. I will be home.

[Wooper]

Hello everyone. 2 votes on me already!

Dang your more popular then me this game...

I only hope a mafioso would end up more popular than I am.

“Mafioso”?

Hmm.
There is Mafia Goon and a Mafia PR or Mafia Goon.

You said Mafioso which means two things.

Your Town who made a sorta Town slip like this.
Or
Your mafia who unintentionally revealed the setup to be 2 Mafia Goons.

What? I was hoping that it's a person from the Mafia organization who gets voted and not me. I don't know if "Mafioso" only means goons here.

I just don’t think “Mafioso” comes to mind if there is a mafia PR.
Could be wrong though but I just think it’s 2 Goons if your Mafia.

???

Mafioso means a member of Mafia organization. It could be a Mafia goon or a Mafia with powers, the point is it's a Mafia member. Why can't I say Mafioso when I'm hoping that it's a singular member of Mafia that gets lynched today?

If there's scum in this interaction it's always TSE

Normally I'd quite like the abstract theory but I've recently discovered scum!TSE is capable of pulling some real bullshit out of thin air and he feels compelled to do this kind of thing as wither alignment soooo :shrug: I'm not sure if this realistically says as much about TSE's alignment as I wish it had but LR wins more town points at least

[Wooper]

Wooper, when you're done, thoughts on Titus's SR of your slot?

I'll try and engage with Titus about this head on once I've caught up. /o/

[Wooper]

I'm looking for something juicier than just her read on my pred & how I feel about her read on my pred

[Wooper]

TSE is v townie, not liking lunar's posts

just clockin this for later
I think I'd agree abt TSE if I wasn't crushed by the weight of knowing his meta

[Wooper]

this flurry of posts is a good look for ph0enix
i'm aware he's claimed tpr so won't go too far in but it ties into a lot of the way my stomach is starting to feel about the first two pages so too bad

Spoiler:

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going.

Despite being in RVS there apparently is one already. What do you make of it?

Can you rephrase this?

What's your opinion of the wagon now that there is one? I mean, the wagon I was referring to already collapsed, but still.

one thing that's bugging me around the first couple of pages is how aloof the analysis of Titus' posting is - like there's kind of a consensus that her jumping off the rvs wagon is WeIrD but i don't think anyone has really committed to what it's supposed to mean

i noticed my pred did the same @ LR earlier on this page.

i'm not sure it means anything categorically for the people pushing titus but she doesn't feel concerned with optics and nobody feels like, passionately against this wagon

Okay, I read what I had missed.

Titus changing her vote is NAI.
LunarRest using the word "mafioso" in that one post is NAI as well.

agree strongly
TSE is either:
- town using this as a discussion point to get things moving
- scum trying to look towny by teaching into the deepest depths of a pocket dimension to pull out analytical comment
but realistically it's not actually strongly AI for Titus? it's just something to talk about to get the game moving

TSE is v townie, not liking lunar's posts

Why?

thankkkk youuuuuu

@Titus: What's your opinion on the reaction some people have to your change of vote?

#goodposting

[Wooper]

Yup. Gut it usually a weak indicator but weak indicator is better than a random vote.

i can talk about why you won my rvs vanity townread but yeah basically this is a good sign.

This is artificial.

+1 it's a talking point but a bad one

Okay, I read what I had missed.

Titus changing her vote is NAI.
LunarRest using the word "mafioso" in that one post is NAI as well.

@Titus: What's your opinion on the reaction some people have to your change of vote?

I'm ok tentatively placing you as town based on the top post.

The discussion around me and my vote change is awkward and stilted. A few slots say the same thing and get nowhere but NAI, essentially repeating what came before.

What's absent is more telling. Everyone wants to know why my gut was strong enough, yet no one looked at Phi's behavior. It's not enough to make a strong case out of, but it's still interesting. Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

Mod: I voted Phi not Phoenix.

Fixed, thank you --P

i'm quoting this to reflect on later
there is something really significant in here and i'm not sure what it tastes like quiteeee yet but i think titus is town

[Wooper]

the way TSE approached my post screamed townie to me + I was already disliking that mafioso post when they pushed it
lunar's mafioso post and how they approached the idea of s/s; i think after their last two posts they're pretty solidly null for me though, maybe a little itsy bitsy townie
these are very early reads so they'll probably change but this is where my head is at

uh just to sum up this & tap's previous post

"woah tse is very towny
well i guess tse was towny for a moment then null
i dunnoooo he's getting nuller
this is early so my reads will change!"

calling tap/tse s/s now get your bets in

[Wooper]

what were people saying that's the same besides 'it's null'?
only cheeky mentioned the gut ping thing
I would like phi to come and speak, which is why I'm still voting for them, but I think most people would rather focus on the actual content that's been generated
like, I see wym with that phi post, but it's one rvs post, it's not exactly a lot to look at

ironically i like tap's voting a lot from this perspective

[Wooper]

Why would Titus even vote for Topi if she was mafia with him and then leave the wagon looking as suspicious as she does? A SE mafia wouldn't be doing that.I don't think Titus voting for Phi has to do with trying to get off the Topi wagon. She probably genuinely has a gut feeling that Phi is scum. But then again a SE town wouldn't be doing something which makes him look like a Mafia like this either. Titus isn't a definite mafia but isn't definite town either

I can see where you're coming from. I never assumed that Top/Titus were SvS just that I found it odd that as an SE Titus left the lead wagon before Top even reacted.

It looks like she just had a stronger read elsewhere but often when an RVS wagon grows the people who jump off are the most interesting. In this scenario it's more likely that Top is town and Titus is scum knowing Top's alignment. It's still early but I too am following my gut.

: )
cheeky and i would have fought this game
it's very lucky that we had the same slot

[Wooper]

karnage's opening was like simultaneously super spicy and extremely hard to actually get behind and i think i'm just Firmly Null on him rn
suddenly unsure if tap is a wolf or his posting style is just really cute
help

Also hi, Cheeky.

Hiya! What game did we play in? I have an old person's memory.

This one.

I'm suspecting cheekyteeky lunarrest and truesoulenergy as the latter two seem to know each other plus its so obvious its either a double goon or spec goon ingame right now but nobody is randoming because we win in two nights

tapiocaphobe might be clear at 67% thanks to overdefensiveness

however am voting phoenix because of an illegal move quoting another game and saying necessarily

vote ph0enix

doc on me otherwise someone else because I might get targeted for showing off and saying I'll win

Adding a colon so the automated vote counter will catch it: vote: ph0enix
--P

i have never agreed so passionately with every single thing in a post
(except plot's comments, plot is objectively always right)

[Wooper]

@QQ if this is a schtick, please never stop

+1

[Wooper]

I'm leaning town on

Titus

and

TSE

atm

tapioca

and

phoenix

would be my guess for scum

everybody else is ???

i hope u talked thru these reads karnage buddy

[Wooper]

t

o

w

n

c

o

r

e

~

!

[Wooper]

i'm townreading my own slot because everything cheeky is posting is making me grind my teeth and historically this means we're both town

[Wooper]

He’s just giving buddy reads.
Whom he thinks are scum buddies

Yeah but based on what?

At this point I'm only townreading Phoneix and Tap. We need more wagons or something.

At this point I'm only townreading Phoneix and Tap. We need more wagons or something.

I went back and looked at ph0enix's ISO and I probably judged him too harshly for his reaction to QQ.

What are you seeing from tap that makes him a town read?

kinda wondering why there wasn't more attention to the tap townread here

[Wooper]

I just feel Karnage and Cheeky are doing good cop bad cop here. (Not cop roles but it's an interrogation tactic).

what gave you this impression titus?
i might be tmi'd on cheeky's alignment but i didn't get a feeling of unison at all from these pages

[Wooper]

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

I think Scum!QQ means Scum!Titus
And Titus is coaching QQ.

this is like emphatically not a thing with daychat

[Wooper]

i can feel my WIM slip every time i have to read a QQ post

[Wooper]

VOTE: Titus

why?

Cheeky's been voting me since RVS and had a pretty static read there. He's the "bad cop". He accuses me of being evil, no matter what. You meanwhile are saying that everything I do is ok, making you the "good cop".

do you think a cheeky/karnage scumteam identifies you as the core threat to work around in this plist?

[Wooper]

SE hat: Newbies, look over this type of exchange TSE and I had. Regardless of alignment (I don't know TSE's alignment), this is a good interaction. He calmly put forth his theory, I answered. He (probably) listened. This gives somewhat of an indication of both our alignments. Go ahead and post any theory you want feedback on. Feel free to critique my weak theory too. My theory is no more right or wrong because I am an SE. I care more about you guys enjoying this game and learning than I do winning. I assure you, I am doing my best as either alignment. Anything else doesn't help you.

[/SE hat]

quick qft
this exchange actually has me thinking TSE is more likely town

[Wooper]

SE hat: Newbies, look over this type of exchange TSE and I had. Regardless of alignment (I don't know TSE's alignment), this is a good interaction. He calmly put forth his theory, I answered. He (probably) listened. This gives somewhat of an indication of both our alignments. Go ahead and post any theory you want feedback on. Feel free to critique my weak theory too. My theory is no more right or wrong because I am an SE. I care more about you guys enjoying this game and learning than I do winning. I assure you, I am doing my best as either alignment. Anything else doesn't help you.

[/SE hat]

As an SE we wish to hope to make Newbies into site regulars.
Allowing them to enjoy an amazing FM experience.
To improve and have fun doing it.
To become part of this amazing community and grow to become an extraordinary player.

no matter what TSE's alignment is tho
he's town irl
<3

[Wooper]

I feel a lot better about my townreads than scumreads at this point

probably at like
{wooper]
{titus, ph0enix}
{lunarrest/luckyluciano slot}
{tse}
{homura, qq, karnage}
{tap/non lmh slot}

karnage is a null read that should be going one way or the other but i really don't know how to move him so far
tbh as a matter of policy i'm uncomfortable with the way he's been flashwagoned and there isn't really a major competing wagon
what he's posted so far is like,... in his townrange but also not very towny given i feel fairly good about nearly all my townreads

i think earlygame phi was v v high wagon equity but kinda mild actual scum equity so i am just hard reset on the homura repin

[Wooper]

Right now, yes.

VOTE: Karnage

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

can you show examples of "good cop"/"bad cop" from before 94?

Sure, although I'm phoning in post numbers on Cheeky. Cheeky immediately votes me for breaking RVS. Breaking RVS is usually a good thing. So why would experienced town vote me for that? Cheeky has had that hostile attitude since go. Hence, Cheeky bad cop.

Your 64 is good cop. You're supposing I'm town and have players sucking up to me. This can interfere with natural town blocks. You starting from the supposition that I'm town and working outwards is good cop. You shouldn't know, at this point, that I am town.

... this is a really interesting theory and makes me feel less warm about karnage
actually as far as d1 solves go i can actually digest this
it's wrong, but i like the way titus is thinking.

[Wooper]

analyzing

i think i just want this slot dead

[Wooper]

sorry. need to do work. still around/will finish catching up later

[Wooper]

tbh I don't think many of my actual reads are /wrong/, I just don't feel super confident on scum.

we probably win this by PoE but i also don't really feel like compromise lynching you is all that valuable :/

[Wooper]

what's your solve if you are lynched?

[Wooper]

thansk i like cheeky's replacement a lot too !!!
could you tier your reads for me real quick? even if it's a little sloppy that'll help
format like #529 is ideal if you can get around it, if not then like any format is gr8

[Wooper]

ohhh hehe...
tse has me pocketed, someone else solve him please...

[Wooper]

non lmh does like, 2 alignment indicative things a year, and i'm not convinced he does them on purpose.

i'm off work shortly so when my brain unmelts i'm gonna go finish catching up. the more i think about tap the more i think a lot of his more substantial takes are just quite likely to come from newbscum.

non if you're town & see this pleaseeee do one of those weird unexpected towny things
if not np we'll lynch u

[Wooper]

Deadline: 0 days, 4 hours, 2 minutes.

VOTE: non lmh
placeholder vote

i'll hammer karnage if we get close to deadline and this isn't happening but i'd kinda rather not?

[Wooper]

i have to admit i'm not totally sure how "liking [me] a lot" translates from my slot moving from your like #1 hard scumread 200-300 posts ago to just a nullscum read

[Wooper]

Can the people who have provided reads/theories for scumteams and haven't explained the reasoning behind them do so :/

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

I think that's all. Also, I don't like how Karnage called out TSE in 98 for not providing reasoning behind his theory, but later he posts his townleans without us knowing why he feels this way about the particular people he's leaning town on.

I really like these two posts from Titus. They show a strong town mindset imo. Granted they could be faked which is why I only lean town for now.

Spoiler:

The discussion around ne and my vote change is awkward and stilted. A few slots say the same thing and get nowhere but NAI, essentially repeoting what came before.

What's abcent is more telling. Everyone wants to know why my gut was strong enough, yet no one looked at Phi's behavior. It's net enough to make a strong case out of, but it's still interesting. Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opeming sequence.

Mod: I voted Phi not Phoenix.

Fixed, thank you --P

No. It's farfetched to lock him as scum based off of that. To feel the ignorance of the wagon and discussion of food is an artificial distraction is not. Scum love to distract. It's a good place to start none the less. Plus, the sooner we escape RVS the better.

Re: 98 - that was "calling out" Titus, not TSE. I dont think saying I called them out is a fair description though. It was meant to be kinda snarky to just point out that without reasoning I don't think the vote should be taken too seriously. Also, I think there's a difference between voting somebody without saying why and having a town lean on somebody without saying why.

What do you mean non?

[Wooper]

I've caught up. It's late here so I'll proooobably to sleep soon.

Before i do: Titus, you're my priority #1 to sort comfortably today. We should talk when we're both free.

ceejayvinoya: o hey u!!!! <3

[Wooper]

ngl i find LL towny and i found his pred towny and ph0enix was like... very obvtown and i had a really hard time parsing karnage's alignment so I'm not sure why the votes would have swung any other way - are you thinking we should be reevaluating LL?

like if i was here I'd have voted karnage there as well

[Wooper]

I feel like I'm going thru the motions here but

VOTE: Karnage

non why did you hammer your townread before deadline while i was still catching up?

[Wooper]

non why did you hammer your townread before deadline while i was still catching up?

Does town!Non lolhammer like that?

This is part of my dilemma tbh. I could see non lolhammering as either alignment and he has a meta of kinda just whimsically lolhammering or doing sweet fa

I think his pred was scummy. The lolhammer comes from non as either alignment but given he had an actual read trajectory i'm pretty sure town!non can give us a convincing update of what his actual thoughts are.

Sorry if you were looking for a more decisive answer, ive played exactly one game with non and frankly getting his alignment right required mighty strong forceps

[Wooper]

My curious thing is why the votes switched to Karnage and not LL if the bulk of the votes were because of Phoenix v LL bogging up the thread?

Happy birthday!

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

^^^ This is like my exact read & Titus' question threw me off for exactly the same reason.

Homura-chan...if walpurgisnacht comes and kills all the other towneis... let's go back to day one together to save madoka and save the world...

[Wooper]

before i make your skin crawl too much

you're one of the other people i really want to have sorted before eod2. i think i can read you. and i think this game gets a lot easier if i can weight my townreads comfortably.

[Wooper]

i kinda wanted to talk to titus about this but i have a bit of free time rn and i am not a patient boi
this piece of vca is really really interesting and i'm pasting it recoloured here so i can come back to it

bluntly going by EoD i'm really concerned that i was just incorrect on Titus' early phase. the way the ph0enix wagon (sans homura) + titus + ph0enix himself consoldiated onto karnage in about 17 seconds flat suggests fairly strongly to me that there is scum in this push.

i thought homura unvoting => actually asking for reads about karnage => offering to compromise hammer => not actually lolhammering on karange showed a mindset of legitimately solving karnage's mindset which now that i'm reviewing it in isolation is making me think she's instinctively resisting the agenda and most likely just town

tl;dr i'm pretty heavily reevaluating in {tse-slot,titus,ll} today
that being said i'm still uncomfortable with non
so like
gth i'd say there's roughly one scum in these three

Ph0enix

(3): LuckyLuciano, Homura, TrueSoulEnergy

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Karnage

(1): Titus, Non lmh

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Ph0enix

(3): LuckyLuciano, Homura, TrueSoulEnergy

CheekyTeeky

(2): Crush, Titus

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Karnage

(1): Non lmh

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Karnage

(4): Non lmh, TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Titus

(1):

Karnage

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

Wooper

(1): Crush

Non lmh

(1): Wooper

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Non lmh

(2): Wooper, Crush

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(5): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

, Non lmh

<-- LYNCH

Non lmh

(2): Wooper, Crush

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Not Voting

(1): Homura

[Wooper]

What do you think of TSE's sheep on the Ph0enix wagon yesterday?

i can't like quite remember it off the top of my head but it didn't strike me as super AI
i'll go reraed

[Wooper]

Ok.
Now normally I’d Go Karnage but LL and Phoenix both share the same Playstyle.
(Main reason for my Phoenix read)

I’ve decided that I’d rather not both of them be here for Day 2.
It could cause unnecessary chaos regardless if TvT.
Take one of my newbies games for example.
Despite me being scum that was lynched Day 1. If I was Town and Luca and Koba were still town the game wouldn’t be favouring town.
Koba and Luca have similar play style.
So when they engaged and started to both scum read each other it created a bad environment that favours mafia.

Thus I don’t want a repeat of this as I got Town this game.

VOTE: Phe0nix

I’d like a Day 2 Karnage lynch though.

this one?
i think like i keep coming out anxious but net kinda liking tse

i've been fooled by scum!tse before (with the caveat that we were in autowin so i kinda stopped reading his alignment half way thru the game) and know that he's fairly good at like mostly associatives, but also very good at just vomiting meta and theory based reasoning @ the thread

i think this vote is pretty firmly within his scumrange but like, reading the content sincerely it's a kinda surface level towny vote
but ph0enix is now flipped town
and karnage is now flipped town
so he's tossing over a t/t dichotomy which he recognises is likely a t/t dichotomy and decides he wants to systematically murder both of them

it's kinda nagl (not a good look) but then againnnnnn TSE does a lot of things which aren't a good look as both alignments and has an intentionally polarising playstyle
so i'm not really sure i can divine his alignment off this vote
if i had to? i'd hail mary and say town

[Wooper]

hbu?

[Wooper]

this anxiety is kinda reminding me of a decision i made a while ago
half #teachingmoment, half life experience

but like, except when you're dealing with a scumsided playerlist (lots of chaotic people, lots of hard to read people, lots of people who are good at playing scum)
i realised that if you can read an action as coming from a town pov, it's probably coming from a town pov. adjust probability levels. you find the scums.

allowing that TSE has a fairly broad scumrange and **could** do that kind of thing + stepping off his titus tunnel etc. as scum, i think he's more /likely/ to do that kind of thing as town
there are a fair few slots in this game who i think have reasonable scum equity

i like tse for town

[Wooper]

also he's been replaced
by the delicious ceejayvinoya
who i am very good at reading
<:

[Wooper]

Kind of on the fence about it. On one hand, I generally trust my gut for players like TSE, but feel now that I may have gotten the wrong impression of him.

Like, I see what you mean about his town and scumrange being broad, but looking at the timing of his vote on Ph0enix it felt a lot more beneficial for scum!TSE? Both Luciano and I were pushing Ph0enix and his reasoning for his sheep vote amounted to wanting Ph0enix as a policy lynch. 403 felt like he was townspewing Ph0enix despite his subsequent vote on him. Find it hard to see that vote coming from a town-motivated perspective.

This is actually a really big reservation I have about it as well. Bluntly like I agree that scum!TSE would look at that TvT and be like "yas I can exploit this". I do think he has the ability, as scum, to play this off as something measured and intentional. But when you look at tendencies of opposing alignments, ~generally~:

- scum do things engineered to look 'good'. more artificial, 'clean' things have a tendency to come from scum.
- town do things based on how they feel, and what their brain is actually presenting as a solve. there's always a temptation to push people for like "bad" play, or stuff that looks bad in hindsight, but paradoxically sloppy-and-inperfect-but-sincere things are more likely to come from town.

like going at ph0enix over karnage was more confusing and *felt* more opportunistic
the fact he voted ph0enix despite calling him/karnage effective t/t in the same post *felt* ridiculous.

I'm just kinda wondering if this is actually too outlandish to legitimately come from scum!TSE.
like if he's scum, as a self-aware player, what's his motivation in making it?
what it accomplishes is making him look worse if it's outed that ph0enix/karnage are actually t/t. or he's trying to mindscrew us so that some crazy townie like me looks back at it and thinks that it's too bizarre to come from scum. which is possible but like somewhat vaguely less likely

i hope this makes some semblance of sense. i'm anxious about this read because at a meta level, TSE is someone who

does

do weird stuff as either alignment. but i also only care about meta as far as it defines people's scum vs. town ranges - i wish i felt confident enough to call him like locktown but i'm not 100% sure. but the more i strip it back, i'm kinda thinking that level of sloppiness is likely town-indicative as well.

can definitely understand where you're coming from btw; i don't dislike your read at all. i think i'm just trying to go a level ~deeper~ and work out if he's scum, what his motivation was when he made the post

[Wooper]

maybe trying to analyse intent from someone like TSE is madness
who knows
ehfughehkshbdhmbzxmxzvzb

[Wooper]

in an ideal world we'd have a cop/clearing TPR on someone like {tse, non} - slight preference for non because ://
unfortunately we either have a tracker, a FN or nothing so
:shrug:

i guess a tracker can get guilties which is cool - if they track anyone who goes to anyone they're auto-scum bc the tracker would be the only TPR left alive
so anyone visiting someone else is either a goon or the rolecop

[Wooper]

roleblocker*
same difference

[Wooper]

ok i ended up rambling i'm tired
the key take-away: if we have a tracker, we need to lynch scum to get reliable action results.
if we have a FN, then like if anyone got a "____ is town!" pm from the mod, they should act as though they townread that person, but not really explain it in much detail.

but i'd prefer to swing into reads because we lost our most powerful town power role n1
readlist to follow tomorrow - i'm waiting on a couple of things first.

[Wooper]

VOTE: Titus

[Wooper]

it's aaronfrost !!

[Wooper]

you read up cjv?

[Wooper]

i'm cool w wagoning non lmh w u if u want

[Wooper]

honestly me too

[Wooper]

take care of yourself LL, scary stuff being in high exposure areas atm. real life & not having covid-19 > mafia games

[Wooper]

take care of yourself LL, scary stuff being in high exposure areas atm. real life & not having covid-19 > mafia games

I agree. I kinda want to sort LL and Nom for VCA reasons.

I strongly feel TSE was being a town asshole yesterday.

I still feel Homura is town.

i'm basically on the same page wrt tse/homura and i would love to sort nom but the more i reread the more i feel like LLslot is actually town

what's concerning you about town!LL?

[Wooper]

i felt really similarly while i was reading up tbh, that's well worded.

i really didn't like the cheeky wagon and like, i get that a non-karnage lynch wasn't going thru at EOD but the way wagons stalled out made it abundantly clear that scum were happy to just sit back and let him go down

commonalities between the wagons?

CheekyTeeky (3):

Tapiocaphobe

,

TrueSoulEnergy

, Crush

+

Titus

, later

TSE

=>karnage

Karnage (4):

Non lmh

,

TrueSoulEnergy

,

Titus

, LuckyLuciano

Karnage (5):

TrueSoulEnergy

,

Titus

, LuckyLuciano, Ph0enix,

Non lmh

<-- LYNCH

non/tse/titus all read opportunistic at some level but also i think tse is town
basically i think there's 1-2 scum in titus/non
non's reaction to being wagoned is the same as non's reaction to everything
so sorting titus is like priority #0.1
on that note i'm still really interested to hear why titus has LL's flip as high vca value

[Wooper]

homura is one of my strongest townreads

[Wooper]

I don't know why I quoted myself instead of pressing reply. Sorry, I'm a bit under the weather atm.

make sure you get back on top of the weather soon!!
i'll use rain dance : ]

also i hope you aren't at risk of COVID, stay safe.

[Wooper]

i literally couldn't digest QQ's posting which made me like, not really inclined to shift them off null, so by process of elimination they're probably more likely to Just Be Town

tbh with crush i just like his posting
liek i wanna be friends w him
i'm deferring having a stronger read on him til i'm more into the game & we're here at the same time but i also think that slot is more likely to be town


i actually kinda liked the gut vote in isolation but when you put it like that it actually checks out as associative o.0

[Wooper]

i have a naem u kno

[Wooper]

[Wooper]

i still think homura's read on tse is wrong but i am v interested in her sorting cjv

[Wooper]

claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her for her early aggression.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

Using this to follow up.

First, I didn't like you because you liked me or because of the early aggression. I am bothered by you scumreading both TSE and me. My reexamination over the night phase has TSE at greater than 75% town. Putting us in a dichotomy is bad. Second, you do knowing one of your other scumreads, nom, will capitalize.

I am leaning against Cheeky now Whooper being scum. I am not 100% certain. The amount of backtracking wooper did bought him some time with me, but maybe I am a sucker for those who agree with me.

Suppose TSE and I are both town, what happens to your reads?

VOTE: Non

i agree that TSE is town but don't feel that those continuing to sort him are doing so in bad faith at all tbh - do you think the cases against him are being made in bad faith? & could you point me to what made you feel that way?

i kind of get what you're angling wrt the suggestion ll could be forcing the {titus,tse} dichotomy and likely-scum-non in order to manipulate non into voting in {titus,tse} but it's very much a read i can kind of digest if i tilt myself on an angle and swallow real hard, not something that makes me go "YEAH!!" if you know what i mean. so any tangible tells/trajectory you can show me from ll which made you end up with this read would help me a lot with sorting you

and finally like... are you scumreading me because you townread me because I townread you and you dislike that my read on you changed after I finished reading d1? from my seat it feels like you're driving an agenda on my slot. like you're intentionally hedging on reading me and only committing to a scumread on me when you feel you're in danger of me pushing you. i can pretty cleanly see this coming from a mindset where you know that we don't look s/s, so you're hoping to swing pressure onto me in the event either
- i am mislynched, you flip red
- we already don't look like partners

i'm not like dead convinced that you're scum (if we had 24 hrs left on deadline i'd prefer a non lynch ftr) but if you're town i need you to level w me a bit more please because your reads feel convenient & i don't get the feeling you're engaging with things that are actually happening itt

[Wooper]

just realised this was very brief/may be confusing

- we already don't look like partners

if titus does flip red people will be looking for associative tells. if scum are concerned about being lynched imminently, a valuable tactic is to aggravate/attempt to steer a lynch onto slots who are very unlikely to be scum with you

that way if it succeeds, yeeeet dead townies
if it fails and that person *is* lynched then all people will be able to tell from the last ditch push is that they aren't s/s with the person they tried to get over the line - but that's somehting they coudl alreayd tell

[Wooper]

he also missed titus voting non, i think mayeb hes' going to edit ti in

[Wooper]

menalque i'm gonna need you to level w me pretty quick if you're scum dude

[Wooper]

u wish i was scum

[Wooper]

Why was karnage lynched?

so like reading back he kinda just didn't seem to have been townread and people flash compromised on him after ph0enix claimed jailkeeper and the ph wagon fell to pieces

ngl i wanted your slot eod but we had like two (2) votes for it and then non just lolhammered karnage

so

deadline compromise lynch

[Wooper]

i'll let you finish your catchup and w/e mena and i kno u don't like being scumread but i'm gonna level w u:

you're in a bit of a trashbag slot
if you're town please Menalque It Up asap

[Wooper]

idrc if u have a ~~ bad vibe ~~ on me i'm markedly more interested in seeing your reads develop so
post fast pal

[Wooper]

liek in reality i don't have a super strong read on tap i just committed to screaming in non's face until he did something and then transferred that enthusiasm to ur face

[Wooper]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

[Wooper]

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

I think posting with utmost transparency and allowing people to see the way you solve the game makes ones alignment much easier to read and that's exactly what I'm doing

why is this nitpick more important than all the other things in the game which you aren't talking about?

[Wooper]

r u srs I called titus/non scumteam non is replaced by a capable player who proceeds to derptunnel me based on a misrepresentative meta & toneread on my predecessor based on pg. 6 while Titus has absolutely no capacity to engage with anything that's happening itt in good faith

am I like
literally just 2/2?

[Wooper]

Titus unvotes Menalque rather than immediately shifting her vote to another player. She's uncertain how she's meant to be viewing the replace-in - she doesn't have an actual read on the replace-in.

After this she ponders for a bit
Places a vote on LL (see: lynch isn't going thru bc the dude is clearly town)
then finally arrives on voting me
she doesn't want to vote with her partner but with that kind of distance she feels fine abt it

Menalque's entire iso is literally rhetoric and posturing
He replaces in with reads
Does his catchup
And gasp holy shit guess what
Everything points towards the scumteam he settled on back on pg 2!!!! ( :

his only read change is literally Homura who has been obvtown since replacing in but he hedged on anyway because she's.... polite

I don't have the time I wish I had to spam the shit out of the thread. But Titus/Menalque is the scumteam.

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

[Wooper]

VOTE: menalque

i want this towncasing titus asap

[Wooper]

mena's push vs me & tr on titus is a very transparent agenada - if i/m wrong on titus then tbqh i dont have a hard read on who hsi partner is because he looks like exactly aligned witht itsu

[Wooper]

again "

wow cheeky was scummy on page 2

" is not an adequate case when ur entire read on cheeky's meta is horse shit

[Wooper]

especially when

I think cheeky is intensely scummy as of page 6

What in particular is scummy to you?

She feels very directionless and uncomfortable. There’s also the sense that she cares a lot about how she’s perceived here and is being a lot more measured. When I’ve seen her as town she’s been much more abrasive and demanding, and this is very clearly different to that. Neither is totally condemning on its own, but I think the two together are

bad

Whats your take on that slot?

in the game

Menalque and I literally played with Cheeky like a month ago

she spent nearly all of d1 clutching her cards as close to her chest as she possibly cld bc she had a secret scumread
and she was incredibly nearly mislycned day one for her trouble

like
cheeky is very capable of being agreeable and likeable as scum
you actually don't want to lynch scum!cheeky
cheeky is jarring and contrary as town
it's like
ridiculously polarising

he is not trying to sort cheeky via meta he is looking for a half assed reason to be wagoning me

[Wooper]

VOTE: menalque

i want this towncasing titus asap

I'm not sure what this statement means.

i wnt menalque to explain his titus townread in a lot of detail.

[Wooper]

i'm actually workin atm so i'm kinda like 30% here ): but i'll try to be #gang

[Wooper]

Let’s put it this way: there are enough people townreading you that I’m not really interested in brute forcing your lynch over all else because I’m not confident enough that I’m right and they’re all wrong. THAT SAID I do feel v good about wooper!scum (admittedly mostly based on cheeky’s play > his direct play) and am willing to push that pretty hard, and if he does flip scum then I will be lynching you tomorrow literally 100% of the time if I’m still alive

What about Wooper's direct play was scummy, Mena?

also THANK YOU

[Wooper]

just liek for posterity
i think i'm v likely incorrect & titus is town
i'm feeling more confident in menalque-scum because i think he's got tmi (too much info) on titus' alignment and he's handling my slot in extremely bad faith

[Wooper]

@LL, some of the stuff titus has posted a few pages ago is v unlikely to come from scum!titus

[Wooper]

i can answer that if u want

[Wooper]

@Titus, do you find that as town you OMGUS frequently?

(4 pageotp)
titus' strength earlygame lies in her ability to prod people for content & lategame in her ability to analyse wagons and try to parse people for intent
big diff in alignments: she tends to spend longer signalling that she's trying to generate content but still not 100% sure on her reads as scum
snap readchanges are more likely town indicative for titus (i.e. she actually believes the read)
she still hasn't transitioned into analytical solving mode which has me slightly apprehensive but
i think there's a solid chance she's town her

[Wooper]

What do you think about the QQ/Crush slot?

honestlyyyy i don't knowwww
i think i'm waiting to see how crush comes out of hsi catchup here to have a read on him

[Wooper]

btw if you mislynch me 2day please massclaim d3 because like gth i think there's a very good chacne there's another town power roel

if we correctly lynch scum (menalque) today then we shld also b fine 2 masslciam tomorrow but less important

[Wooper]

LuckyLuciano
ceejayvinoya

Homura
Crush
Titus (SE)
Wooper

Menalque

Colored reads are what I feel certain of right now.

do u actually think mena/wooper is a solve or are you thinking there's 1 sucm in us

[Wooper]

ELI5 why TSE is suddenly (almost) universally town read?

i'm on the move a little atm but if u look at my posting earlier this phase i talked thru reaching net town on him

cjv's pop-ins here have been like
low key solvey
in a way that looks like town!cjv

i'm not like **hard town** on the slot, but think balance of probabilities he's more likely town than scum.

if u wanna argue with my logic it is there, earlier this phase, to be argued with!

[Wooper]

I think my read on Menalque will depend on his reaction to the Wooper/me interactions recently. By recently, I refer to when I called Wooper.

He needs to exclude those from any towncase.

agree passionately
in essence i'm lookin for what part of d1 caused menalque to go "aw ye. titus is locktown."
i felt real strong abt town!you v early but eod i had huge rising anxieties and it's kinda irking me that he's just, got exactly none of them

w/e i think you can probably see where my issues w u this game come from, i'll let it rest

[Wooper]

Possibly?
I'd need a personality/meta baseline on QQ to have a solid read on that I think. like if someone super logical pushed smth like that I'd probably call it heavily scum indicative. As it stands I just think it was silly. But QQ is silly.

[Wooper]

The posts make it seem like TSE is town, not necessarily CJ. So I imagine that with new information somehow TSE D1 is now getting town read, that's what I'm interested in if that's the case.

oh ya I guess I'm keen to sew other ppl talk about their tse/cjv reads more n stuff

do you disagree with town!cjv?

[Wooper]

Is QQ a regular player on this site? Because he was an obvious troll this game, I even scum read Phoenix for arguing with him.

not that I kno of na

[Wooper]

@Everyone: Between Titus, Crush, Homura, and Wooper, who is most town, and why? Why is most scum, and why? I would like if everyone answered.

that bracket is
crush > homura > Titus > wooper
I think it's generally unlikely to contain two scum
crush I am Firmly Null on and I really want him to finish catching up so we have some shinny shinny read trajectory to look at

homura has been v towny since repin
I think the way she's remained curiously questioning on the tse stuff while seeming genuine is town indicative
I think her sorting Titus this phase has been towby
This is a towngame.

Titus I think has a fairly defined set of skills as town & scum and I think she's in a position atm where she's unlikely to replicate this kind of play as scum. this isn't cop inno level town but it's p close.

I'm wooper, me myself, I saw me town role pm and its town, also I'm very cute

[Wooper]

I can't stop I'm sorry I'm so cute

[Wooper]

@Homura, what's your town block looking like atm?

{Crush, Luciano, Wooper}, in that order.

convince me on crush

[Wooper]

i

daer[/u] u

[Wooper]

): onoes

[Wooper]

I'm fine w whatever deadline
take care of yourself mena

[Wooper]

so uh cjv
where's your vote falling here?

[Wooper]

i'm fine w cjv

also waiting on mena

[Wooper]

it's ok to be around forums menalque we can't give u covid-19
i'll be asleep sometime soonish or something but i'll be around a little

[Wooper]

i have several issues w ur posting already but just liek real quick

I'm not doing anything until we get input from Crush, CJN, and Homura.

I thought you were basically locked on me!scum + Titus!scum

having two scumreads doesn't disqualify one from sorting confidence levels of other reads

what are you trying to accomplish with this?

[Wooper]

what gives u the impression its posturing rather than just, earnest sorting

[Wooper]

like we're playin a game of intents & rhetoric
it's either posturing or generating sorting content suer

so ur welcome 2 say "WOW POSTURING"
but i see it and think it's kinda just fine?
liek i'd be really interested in hearing what makes you go

POSTURING!

so quickly bc it sounds more like rhetoric than actual analysis of intent

[Wooper]

look i wouldn't have voted ph0enix d1 but i think it was a pretty town motivated wagon
someone playin the game havin reads and backin themselves on their reads isn't really a scum indicator

someone not checkin themselves on incorrect gamestate analysis and consequently flippin their reads isn't scum indicative. like especially for a newbie who might not have a strong feelin on how to read a gamestate yet

i thought ll's pred was towny ll's d1 was towny and ll's d2 so far has been towny too and liek, the fact he's confident in his reads doesn't shaek that for me

it v much feels 2 me like you set out to have this read on ll dude :/

[Wooper]

like ducky, I know you're scum and that you're going to force this 1v1 (which, incidentally is incredibly +scum for you) but maybe let me finish catching up first?

if i was tryna force a 1v1 i'd probs be doin less sortin and doin more tryin to actually lynch u can u pls focus on game related things a bit more

[Wooper]

also you're obviously going to say it's "just fine" because you're either partners or you're pocketing him lmao

i'm gonna say it's fine bc i don't think it's an ai post!!
like picking something so minor out of his legitimately towny iso and being like "wow this is scummy" is posturing

i could make an argument that it's towny, and i could make an argument that it's scummy, but i don't really feel like either is legitimate, and feel like you're applying some really weirdly 3d chess expert player expectations to the way ll is approaching reads :s

[Wooper]

I'm not derptunneling you

no you're not derptunnelling me. if you derptunnel you feel passionate and raw and RIGHTEOUS. your arguments here are sloppy. liek your vote on me is the extnet of "wow cheeky was scummy up to pg. 6 guess wooper is scum" - liek what part of that is a game i can play? what part of that is a game that YOU are actually playin and actually believe in? it's just silly. no you're not derptunnelling. you're pushing a lynch.

the meta I'm using is not misrepresentative

duuuuude you saw cheeky in our newbie
she did like sweet fa because she was scared of outing a scumread on me for most of d1
then thru sheer read trajectory late d1 she looked towny
then town mechwon the game so she didn't rly do anything else
like what you're saying cheeky's meta is? is the straight up opposite of what cheeky's meta is. like it's completely bizarrely wrong and you feel completely unabashed about that?

why is Titus not engaging with anything in good faith?

we readin the same thread?
this also isn't relevant, we're talking about your reads and your catchup dude

[Wooper]

I replaced in without looking at the game at all. then I skimmed the first couple of pages and gave reads based on that. you know that's perfectly NAI for me because I give reads off the first couple of pages most games. I'm pretty sure you've been in games with me where I've voted scum correctly off the first couple of pages?

you have voted scum off the first couple of pages, sure. you've also voted town off the first couple of pages.
when ur actually playin the game you're also dreadful at tonereading me.
you're either misreppin cheeky because her sod1 wasn't warm fuzzy and likeable
or you're town who's meta impression of cheeky is upside fucking down

like
i prompted engagement off your vote. when u asked i even admitted i wasn't really sure about your slot and just wanted to shake u up.
i looked for a read trajectory from you
i looked for any cognisance that your meta case was just outright wrong
and i got none of it
so i think you're scum?

I don't think this is you looking at things from a town mindset, I think this is you trying to lock in a mislynch on me

dude i'm the leading wagon here and i don't even think titus is scum anymore
allowing there's likely still a scum vote to swing my way? i think i'm a pretty probable mislynch this phase
meanwhile i'm votin u and what? like, cjv is like "hmm i'll vote menalque after ____ maybe"?
you suggesting that i'm trying to mislynch you is blatant posturing when literally all you've done since you've repped in is try to get my slot mislynched

for instance: I don't think town!you would be trying to say I'm scum for thinking the same two people are scum that I thought from initial impressions, I think you'd be trying to make me see that I was confbiased

which goes 2 show u don't know me vry well
i'd look at what you've posted and ask my good self:
"is this an agenda (scum indicative), or is it confbias (town indicative)?"
you have the same two scumreads as liek pg. 6
ur reads aren't developping
ur reads are understated and have nearly no trajectory
but hooooboy do you want votes on good ol' mr. wooper

this isn't confirmation bias dude you are pushing an agenda because you want a lynch.
given it blatantly doesn't look like confirmation bias fmpov why would i waste time coming from an angle of "hey mena qt i think ur confbiased!!" and give you a chance to weasel out of it when i can light a fire under you and see whether you squirm?

[Wooper]

I especially think that given that it's me and you know that I tend to get over-emotional when being pushed, you would be trying - if town - to avoid that outcome and to work with me

i think u kno my approach to being scumread (it's either bloody stupid, in which case it's probs scum or rly dumb town; OR it's a compliment that someone thinks i'm capable of ___ as scum / thinks they can make me look capable enough to have done ___ as scum)
i'll put this aside
liek
you get emotional and post a lot in realtime
why would i not make an attempt to pressure u so that u feel compelled to post in realtime and try to develop ur reads and watch how ur reads change

like you as either alignment can pop in with "my reads off pg 2 are {a, b, c}

im melanque.

vote: b"
you as scum sincerely struggle to fake a trajectory in realtime
ur TONE feels the same but ur content struggles hard
and that is how i see ur alignment

like you're suggesting i'm not town because i'm doing everythin in my power 2 strongarm u into produing alignment indicative content when ur in my PoE but i'm not reeaally confident on my read on your preds

the fuck?

[Wooper]

I mean I think Titus is town but less for today and more for her D1 play, although I've said that she's probably one of my less confident reads here, esp. due to not really being aware of how she plays scum when she's committed to it

u need to towncase titus off d1
if u haven't finished catching up, do it before u finish catching up pls

[Wooper]

i think she's v superficially towny early d1
the not feelin like she had a partner thing earlyish d1 was ok & a good way to start convos but probably not a good actual tell
things start gettin spicy later d1
suddenly she's v much strugglin to keep content up

like i townread her for my time in d1 but after i finished my catchup she'd plummeted to the bottom of my list
and off d2 she's like floatin back to the top

so my titus read is probably a polar opposite of yours?? and i'm very interested to see what you're on abt?

[Wooper]

allllll of your postssssss are liessssss

I don't like they're [p]112[/p] though
he intentionally changed letters around in the spoiler
n o c m maybe that's code for no comment, maybe he gave up early on

I just noticed this and it should be incredibly town!indicative for my slot

the post he's talking about
is more likely to be a TPR crumb than anything else
the fact he noticed it at all is wolfy
the fact he brought it up without committing to what he actually thought it meant was even wolfier

[Wooper]

I mean I think Titus is town but less for today and more for her D1 play, although I've said that she's probably one of my less confident reads here, esp. due to not really being aware of how she plays scum when she's committed to it

u need to towncase titus off d1
if u haven't finished catching up, do it before u finish catching up pls

I'm just gonna pop this first: why would I towncase Titus D1 when I'm not 100% locked on Titus town?

because your titus townread feels wayyyy overconfident......lmfao
and i strongly dislike the fact you're now attempting to understate it

[Wooper]

I can say what I think pinged me about Titus as town on d1 tho but that's not a towncase

bring it

[Wooper]

like i can exactly see that being talked about in the scum pt
that is why he would remember a random ass post like that
but the fact he came here pointing it out but pretending not to have any thoughts about it?

ugh i just realised i'm fighting you about your own slot's alignment
i think it's slimy that he pointed it out but pretended not to have any thoughts about it
i think his actual *thoughts* r what u save for the scum pt, not noticing it in the first place

[Wooper]

let's try these

please don't pretend you have trajectory on your titus read you're cherrypicking posts where you faltered (again, with no stated reason)

I’m caught up now btw @all

Why is Titus townie again? She's practically directionless and uncomfortable this day phase

I mean I think Titus is town but less for today and more for her D1 play, although I've said that she's probably one of my less confident reads here, esp. due to not really being aware of how she plays scum when she's committed to it

Also why do you think Titus is scummy?

I think karnage was fairly obviously town but then I think Titus was too, although her pushing there does give me some pause

I don’t really know what scum!titus is capable of because I know there was some RL stuff going on both times I’ve gone against her but I wold certainly lean town there

@wooper when you get here can you tell me what you thought of what I’m presuming is going to be a shitfest between Titus and karnage?

There’s Def scum within (Karnage, Titus and Phe0nix)

Guess titus is prob town then

@titus vote the duck?

literally anyone reading this, go to menalque's ISO and ctrl+f "titus"

[Wooper]

like i can exactly see that being talked about in the scum pt
that is why he would remember a random ass post like that
but the fact he came here pointing it out but pretending not to have any thoughts about it?

ugh i just realised i'm fighting you about your own slot's alignment
i think it's slimy that he pointed it out but pretended not to have any thoughts about it
i think his actual *thoughts* r what u save for the scum pt, not noticing it in the first place

I mean why does he comment like that

like why bring up very specifically what the change is but not the fact that it spells out mason

look dude i'm not going to pretend i can read non lmh's mind but i know a guilty conscience when i see one -the fact he clearly HAD thoughts but withheld them makes me think he did it to look town.

[Wooper]

oh the other thing I didn't like about LL is that I do think phoe was obvtown and so pushing him was scummy

i also thought ph0e was towny but like the push against him felt largely good-faithy tbh

[Wooper]

I can say what I think pinged me about Titus as town on d1 tho but that's not a towncase

bring it

still w8ing on this btw

[Wooper]

mena
you've been talking to titus like she's town for nearly all of your posting
save a few exceptions where you waffled

if you can towncase her off d1, do it. if you have a Big Townping off d1, point it out for me

[Wooper]

I can say what I think pinged me about Titus as town on d1 tho but that's not a towncase

bring it

still w8ing on this btw

believe it or not typing is not instantaneous

may have been throwing too many things at once earlier - i'll wait.

[Wooper]

wooper's log
stardate 0, 5 minutes or so



menalque still lost in titus' iso
fear he may be dead
or worse...
... infected with covid-19
going to play runescape 4 a bit

[Wooper]

sure i don't want the game flooded in cases at ALL but u have been feelin tonally far 2 confident on town!titus and i think it was incredibly appropriate 2 drag that outta u

for the most part i generally agree except i think ur kinda ignoring the parts of d1 where she felt kinda schketchy which makes ur case feel like you already know titus' alignment but i also think i'm gonna benefit from giving this another read after a sleep


kinda struggle with you loving titus' super early game yet her being in your PoE pool in your third post.

pedit: this is like, the most scummy i've ever seen you

[Wooper]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

[Wooper]

[quote="In post 958, Menalque"][/quote]
don't try to force a t/t dichotomy my dude.
i am also not keen on titus goin thru today; if we mislynch me 2day i think ur always tomorrow's lynch which gets us down to f3
if we mislynch someone else like titus isn't gonna steer and power over f5 but i thinkkkk we'll b able to solve for her partner
if we hit red today then we'll be able to sort for partners, and titus only looks aligned with a few people in the game

so like titus isn't the right lynch here

[Wooper]

aware i underestimate your scum skillset (i've lurked some of ur games to check myself after Alisae v. Pine & stuff) but your trajectories as town are stubborn yet believable; ur trajectories as scum are either nonexistent or outlandish and ur

i'm menalque.

moments don't feeeellll as deserved

ur also usually lower pressure as scum but i don't think that's a very valuable tell here

so I'm (1) stubbornly pushing for your Lynch

(2) super high pressure here

(3) looking scummy

and you're not TRing me ?

(1) ur push on me doesn't feel headstrong stubborn and correct like your pushes do when ur town. ur literally scrambling to find responses 2 me and they feel paperthin. it feels like you're tryin to mislynch me but i am really strugglin to believe this is actually a read you have with reasons for having this read which you have.

(2) - you're like very low pressure compared to our last game lol (which is actually a good thing for gamestate but w/e)
- it's 7p in a micro which distorts the value of Pressure tells because it's very easy to be proportionately higher pressure than 6 other people in a newbie game
- you've been v/la
^^^ as i said, i am not leaning on this tell it's too flimsy

(3) uh
yeah
sorry
you read scummy as scum

[Wooper]

don't try to force a t/t dichotomy my dude.
i am also not keen on titus goin thru today; if we mislynch me 2day i think ur always tomorrow's lynch which gets us down to f3
if we mislynch someone else like titus isn't gonna steer and power over f5 but i thinkkkk we'll b able to solve for her partner
if we hit red today then we'll be able to sort for partners, and titus only looks aligned with a few people in the game

so like titus isn't the right lynch here

okay fuckit, we're going into this

we're lynching in you two because you're both hard softing TPR and there's only one left

which means if there is a TPR left then the other one is scum setting up for a 1v1 fakecliam tomorrow

i'm not softing tpr and neither is titus lmfao
if there's another tpr it's not me, and it's not titus, and they're not at risk of getting lynched today

like sit down

[Wooper]

have you finished your catchup?

[Wooper]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

[Wooper]

and er, actually I normally don't, I think one of the best ways of catching scum!me is how TR I am

different strokes...? i'm finding u easier to read in games i'm following

I think we really should flip you today but if we don't and you consider me town who is scum?

i think crush is scum and has highest partner equity with u
titus has someeeeee partner equity with you, but that's sortable later
cjv or ll are the slots i'd revisit next tbh but i'm bluntly not seeing a reason to rn

[Wooper]

it's a bit late here and i'm kinda wanting to do other stuff to calm down then sleep
can we finish up pretty soon?

974 feels like an olive branch so i'll try to reread this with an open mind tmrw but you just don't feel like town rn and i'm concerned this convo won't go anywhere but Further Down The Toilet

[Wooper]

idk if it helps clarify a lot but i think the way you've handled cheeky/me has probably been the strongest scum indicator i'm seeing

like town!cheeky is explicitly, almost intentionally jarring. she plays vs. gamestate and isn't in it to make friends. sometimes she plays hard, sometimes she holds her cards close to her chest - that's not a useful alignment tell. scum!cheeky is a lot sweeter and more likeable and makes an effort to play to the gamestate & hide behind bigger players. the way you're representing her meta here is completely backwards. but she IS a jarring player so it's not difficult to pick up posts of her from 30 pages ago and go "hey guys isn't this sO sCuMmY? let's lynch it"

you still haven't explained what u actually think scum!Cheeky/scum!wooper are doing

yet everything i'm posting is sO sCuMmY and u really think we need to lynch me based on my predecessor's contributions like 34 pages ago

it's not a real read and it's slimy :c

[Wooper]

tl;dr
yes cheeky can be vexing
yes it's easy to get votes on cheeky
your meta read on her is off fucking base
you're not actually analysing our slot
your read is stuck 34 pages ago, with a sprinkling of reacting to everything i'm posting like i'm sO sCuMmY

like you might get this lynch thru, suer, i'm not super interested in fighting any harder than i feel against bein mislynched these days

but ur not convincing me ur misreading me; it feels like u just want me dead

[Wooper]

tfw tl;dr 2/3 length of original rant

[Wooper]

@ work atm and suddenly posts which is VERY exciting but i can't read til later
tty all later

[Wooper]

titus/ll is one of the least probable scumteams

[Wooper]

i just caught up, had work/family today and i'm a bit wiped

mena i really don't think you're town here dude
LL is reading townier in this exchange as well :/

titus had a townie pop-in, again, j/s

[Wooper]

Titus just for posterity I'm Anxious that you're fairly likely to be town but your reads are like, utterly wrong

I think I need to treat cjv/you as town for the sake of sorting this phase and reevaluate you tomorrow

[Wooper]

CJN being town has nothing to do with Titus being town.

I agree totally ftr it's coincidental I think they're the two most valuable slots to sort d3 particularly following a scum!mena flip

[Wooper]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

[Wooper]

yeah... shutting down aloof mechtalk by insisting the tpr doesn't claim sure is finishing...

you read the rest of my iso where I've been heavily scumhunting?

[Wooper]

Sorry LL. It might be easier for me to explain in d3 but I can't reply to #1127 rn

[Wooper]

might be better if people re-think having this conversation but w/e
if you do please remember you are all good vanilla townies who have no idea what the setup is and proceed accordingly with vague language

it's very easy to drop slips which prove you're coming from a perspective of knowing more than a vt

I am also p sure we're dealing with scum!Mena and Mena has generally very keen intuition so like

please speak carefully

[Wooper]

hmmm
@cjv
if you can somehow prove to homura that you're town this game gets a lot easier
if mena flips green this is doubly true

[Wooper]

I have two responses to #1131 and can't really give either rn

[Wooper]

This is kinda the part of the game where I get restless too.

[Wooper]

I think I tried like quite hard to work with you overall especially given you rep'd into a poe slot tbqh

I've really felt like you haven't showed as much read development as I have, our reads blatantly jar, you didn't hanlde my slot in good faith, and you're like expecting me to bend over backwards to extract more content from you now that I actively think you're outed scum at L-1?

I'd love to work with you but not when I have to do 90% of the work and it feels like you're conversing with me nearly exclusively to try and make me look bad

[Wooper]

LL is right too tbh buuut

I think Mena is angling at something else - I respect his towngame

Given how generally crappy our dialogues have been this game I think him raising it is more likely appealing to some combination of {my emotion, onlookers' biases}

but I do think he's getting at more than "I've played better than non. Townread me."

[Wooper]

........ lol
i'm starting to doubt my townreads
it's mena + one of {cjv, homura}.
i don't individually scumread either of them but the way they've handled this 1v1 has been hilariously wolfy

lowkey waiting for homura to pop in and lolhammer me

[Wooper]

originally crush's vote struck me as ez distancing but the more he's doubled down the less i think he's aligned with menalque.
ll's entire approach to this argument has been obvtown.
titus should probably still be town here but her reads are like blatantly unabashedly incorrect and if ~evidence~ comes to light that she might be scum, pls reintroduce her to the poe.
cjv i don't want to say too much on. you should be able to clear him d3. if not, mena/cjv is the scumteam
homura has been avoiding making a decision on me vs. menalque and instead is just quizzing other slots on other unrelated stuff

[Wooper]

i kinda hate holding back but i can't really give my full solve

menalque is scum. he's handled our exchange in insanely bad faith and he's appealing to people's like ?? ability as mafia players ?? to "sEeEe the LiGhT" and vote me rather than actually trying to read me through my gameplay. his scumread on me comes from absolutely nowhere and his entire argument is baseless flailing. this isn't hard, and i don't see how the town in {titus,cjv} isn't seeing this.

this makes me think the partner has either tactically found a way to slide onto the wagon or they're waiting in the wings to drive the final nail into my coffin

[Wooper]

i don't really think a world where menalque is town makes sense here tbh
if mena/wooper is t/t then a cjv/titus team probably wins the game unless y'all are comfortable with me risking throwing the last TPR under the bus

[Wooper]

Wooper, what did you mean when you said you weren't getting lynched this DP?

exactly what i've been saying the whole time tbh.
i am very obvtown.
my predecessor was obvtown.
i am only being pushed by scum.
if this dp comes down to a 1v1 between me/mena, i refuse to lose it.

[Wooper]

yeah we're not massclaiming

[Wooper]

i actually changed my mind
if cjv can prove to LL that he's town this game is veeery easy

pedit: i was talking about when i made that comment titus

[Wooper]

sadly i think there's 1-2 town on me in you/cjv now

[Wooper]

[Wooper]

sigh
i have one really valuable info bomb to drop but it makes my tpr read really obvious

[Wooper]

sigh
yeah

[Wooper]

hence if he could have landed a visit on unkilled {you,homura} then d3 has conftown cjv regardless of titus' alignment and becomes a lot more solvable

i didn't think it was that clear until now :/

[Wooper]

even if we're incorrect i don't think anyone should cc this phase

[Wooper]

for ~ raisins ~

[Wooper]

Well CPV didn't outright claim friendly neighbor and that's the way it should be. We aren't discussing this further.

[Wooper]

the correct lynch is in {me,mena}
i think mena's scumfuckery is extremely obvious so
the correct lynch for townies today is mena
there is 1-2 town in {titus,cjv} and they get a loootttt easier to sort after we have a scumflip, so

people just need to choose who in me/mena they think is wolfier

[Wooper]

Why wouldn't we CC this phase? We have 1 mislynch left. In case of a CC, we can literally lynch incorrectly and then get the mafia next DP, whereas if we lynch town this DP holding back a CC, and it comes out next DP, we lose the guaranteed kill on mafia.

it's more to do with the tpr's utility as a confirmed townie, less to do with them having an action

i'll explain more post-game

[Wooper]

tse/cjv also towny by play ya

[Wooper]

sticking around is really admirable. make sure you take care of yourself.
regardless of how this phase ends i think the game gets a lot more lucid in f5.

[Wooper]

we could flashwagon homura tbh but i still want menalque d3. homura makes sense as town, and makes sense as an absent mena partner.

[Wooper]

look after yourself first - that's the most important thing.

[Wooper]

i could write a really lengthy post about how i'm going to flip green too and insist you all lynch menalque tomorrow but like

i think it's already really obvious so
if you need to lynch me do it
if you're stumped for scum in f5 reread literally any exchange between menalque and i know that i'm town
=> lynch menalque
gl w the partner in f3

[Wooper]

<=== menalque wooper ===>

you can win this round but my buddies will get you back for the win

[Wooper]

fr i'm l-1 and i've been the nearly uncontested lead wagon nearly all day loooooool
like i have absolutely no illusion about how likely i am to be lynched here
it's still a mislynch

[Wooper]

Oh, and double check

titus

menalque in f3 if wooper is red

[Wooper]

Oh, and double check titus in f3 if

wooper

menalque is red

i'm bad at passive aggressive quoting sry

[Wooper]

You’ve literally freaked out about being lynchable in the last like 5 minutes since you realised my mislynch is no longer surefire even if still p likely

you've been the lynch for like 5 seconds after you actually finally got a second vote lmao
you/titus were just parked on me all phase hooowwwww would i not expect to eat the mislynch

[Wooper]

Oh, and double check

titus

menalque in f3 if wooper is red

I mean the game is over if you’re ever green bc I don’t see me ever not being lynched tomorrow

this isn't correct because we're not the scumteam

[Wooper]

stoppppp spamming rhetoriccccc

[Wooper]

stoppppp spamming rhetoriccccc

“Please stop making me show how scummy I am by continuing to talk mena, please be quiet and eat your mislynch”

stoppppp spamming rhetoriccccc

[Wooper]

You’ve literally freaked out about being lynchable in the last like 5 minutes since you realised my mislynch is no longer surefire even if still p likely

you've been the lynch for like 5 seconds after you actually finally got a second vote lmao
you/titus were just parked on me all phase hooowwwww would i not expect to eat the mislynch

Bc literally everyone was talking about how open they were to being on me?

Like ceejay, homura etc were all happy to lynch me earlier

P sure LL still wants to lynch me

we reading the same game?
cjv is literally voting me
homura is awol and holds as hammer
ll just unvoted me and said he'd sheep cjv

there's been veeery few moments this phase where i've been like "huh there is a high chance of actually lynching scum"
for nearly the entire phase i've been absolutely aware that i'm going down, and jsyk i am dragging your ass down with me.

Oh, and double check

titus

menalque in f3 if wooper is red

I mean the game is over if you’re ever green bc I don’t see me ever not being lynched tomorrow

this isn't correct because we're not the scumteam

This doesn’t even make sense?

yes it does
lynching me => 5p lylo => lynching you => 3p lylo

like that only applies if we're t/t or s/s
and you're scuuummmmm

[Wooper]

stoppppp spamming rhetoriccccc

[Wooper]

like you literally haven't said
anything that constitutes scumhunting
you stopped even pretending to scumhunt
you're just posting shit and hoping people mislynch me

[Wooper]

If you have a concern just shoot a pm to plotinus.
In the meantime it's probablye best to keep replacement discussion to a minimum

[Wooper]

just like as a matter of policy it's not a huge deal

[Wooper]

the fact you're just.. throwing back exactly what you've been doing and accusing me of doing it.. is like literally mind blowing...
if i'm legit mislynched here i'll be laughing so hard at my wagon in the dead thread

[Wooper]

Honestly, I think I was overreacting last night. Between a 14-day self quarantine and my job + other places of gathering being shut down for 30-days I have probably been getting a bit stir-crazy, especially since most of my human interaction in that time has come from a game where I am to expect others to lie and attempt to manipulate me.

LL, this time is draining on is all. The drain is why I am not performing as well too. I acknowledged as much to Menalque. I still do mine but it could stop anytime. I have to balance my job with the risk of hurting those I love and the possibility of needing to prove my essential nature. Then there's the PTSD getting triggered in my case.

It's important to be honest with yourself and do your best regardless of alignment. Your best is the best under the circumstances. You're not alone. There's a discussion thread in GD. The Speakeasy has even more content. There's also mental health professionals.

Strongly back this post - this is a really peculiar time for everyone on the planet. Taking care of ourselves & those close we care about is the most important thing to do. It's all too easy to get caught up in Everything and run yourself down. Taking time out for mental health is one of the most sensible things you can do especially rn