Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: Tapiocaphobe

Because how am I supposed to shorten that. Tapio?

[Ph0enix]

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going.

Despite being in RVS there apparently is one already. What do you make of it?

[Ph0enix]

Also hi, Cheeky.

[Ph0enix]

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going.

Despite being in RVS there apparently is one already. What do you make of it?

Can you rephrase this?

What's your opinion of the wagon now that there is one? I mean, the wagon I was referring to already collapsed, but still.

[Ph0enix]

Okay, I read what I had missed.

Titus changing her vote is NAI.
LunarRest using the word "mafioso" in that one post is NAI as well.

[Ph0enix]

TSE is v townie, not liking lunar's posts

Why?

[Ph0enix]

@Titus: What's your opinion on the reaction some people have to your change of vote?

[Ph0enix]

Pagetop.

[Ph0enix]

Also hi, Cheeky.

Hiya! What game did we play in? I have an old person's memory.

This one.

[Ph0enix]

Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opening sequence.

I mean, given that your statement is based on 2 random filler RVS posts with no substance to them, as one could expect from very early posts, of course, isn't it a little far-fetched to say that?

[Ph0enix]

No. It's farfetched to lock him as scum based off of that. To feel the ignorance of the wagon and discussion of food is an artificial distraction is not. Scum love to distract. It's a good place to start none the less. Plus, the sooner we escape RVS the better.

Fair, I suppose.

[Ph0enix]

I mean I don't really have any reactions other than 'it's weird titus started my wagon then immediately left it' but i'm getting a nullread from that

I don't like you answering a question for Titus. I don't like how it's weird but its a null read.

this is a weird basis to vote titus on

Buddying up to Titus

liking this post

More buddying up to Titus

VOTE: tap

With the first quote I can see how this can be seen as buddying, it does look like Tapio defending her in a way.

As for the next two, however, I don't think not liking a vote against someone or liking someone's post equals buddying (necessarily).

[Ph0enix]

I'm suspecting cheekyteeky lunarrest and truesoulenergy as the latter two seem to know each other plus its so obvious its either a double goon or spec goon ingame right now but nobody is randoming because we win in two nights

tapiocaphobe might be clear at 67% thanks to overdefensiveness

however am voting phoenix because of an illegal move quoting another game and saying necessarily

vote ph0enix

doc on me otherwise someone else because I might get targeted for showing off and saying I'll win

I didn't understand a single thing in this post.

1. How does people knowing each other equal them being scum?
2. What's your opinion on Tapioca, exactly?
3. Illegal move, what?
4. Why would Doc want to necessarily be on you instead of someone else?
5. How do you know there's a Doc in the first place?

hey Ph0enix "Crafty Phisherman" what's your price full stop you're under investigation for spearfishing links from a past game that's now current as mentioned esrlier redirecting to forum trackers in line with the 2020 world organisation on night watch

Okay?

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: QuantumQuasar

[Ph0enix]

since you referred to another situation where you knew someone then that makes that suspicious,
I'm the only trustworthy person for doctor to heal
every town has at least one officer or doc

How so?
How so, again?
No, it doesn't, haven't you read the possible setups?

[Ph0enix]

I think the persons voted on d1 are innocent and whoever bandwagoned into voting, the voters are more suspect
besides TrueSoulEnergy you had work which meant that doc or officer should check what work you do at day or night

What does that sentence mean?

[Ph0enix]

QQ is likely some type of troll and I'm questioning whether ph0enix's reaction to them is genuine

Interpret my reaction however you want, I don't want to leave his nonsense unaddressed, troll or not.

[Ph0enix]

Can the people who have provided reads/theories for scumteams and haven't explained the reasoning behind them do so :/

That would be:

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

I don’t think Cheeky is but I do think Karnage could be.

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

I think that's all. Also, I don't like how Karnage called out TSE in 98 for not providing reasoning behind his theory, but later he posts his townleans without us knowing why he feels this way about the particular people he's leaning town on.

[Ph0enix]

Re: 98 - that was "calling out" Titus, not TSE. I dont think saying I called them out is a fair description though. It was meant to be kinda snarky to just point out that without reasoning I don't think the vote should be taken too seriously. Also, I think there's a difference between voting somebody without saying why and having a town lean on somebody without saying why.

Oh yes, my bad. There is a difference, yes, but given that we are currently still early in the game and are working with very limited information, I still believe that providing reasoning behind a townlean could be helpful. Perhaps there's something we've overlooked about this particular player that you have now shed light on, which itself may help us determine his/her alignment.

[Ph0enix]

Phi posted only once? Two goons versus PR/goon, one silent one talkative

Considering Phi Kappa silent pull info from

tapioca easy pull
karnage close enough to be sideways
lunar both silen
phoenix precise nervous
tse present similar opposite enough to be forgotten
titus blase but could be hiding more
cheeky further aloof

cheeky tapioca
cheeky karnage
cheeky lunar
cheeky phoenix
cheeky tse
cheeky titus
cheeky phi

titus lunar
titus phi ok combo
titus cheeky soso
titus karnage fed
titus phoenix lasso

lunar karnage / karnage lunar commodores

phoenix tapioca
titus tapioca karnage titus

Guys, am I dumb, is QQ using some terminology I'm not familiar with, I don't understand half of this post.

[Ph0enix]

TSE, I guess you're on translation duty.

Phoenix, I'll try to explain my theory tonight. It makes sense in my head as an aha type moment but I'm not the clearest.

He’s just giving buddy reads.
Whom he thinks are scum buddies.

That part I understand, it's just that his phrasing confuses me, idk.

[Ph0enix]

vote ph0enix

post #51

rule #4 Don't talk about ongoing games - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.

My vote is fhe only correct one because we're not bandwagoning day one

Plus, Lunarrest and Phi can both be afk and considered incapacitated in an estate where we all hold joint shares so in the event no action happens on night one (as it should because we're not waiting for blood to be spilled)

then why replace them?

vote ph0enix and let the two others be afk

Three things:

1. The game I was referencing in the post you are talking about is not ongoing, it ended around two months ago, I'm not violating any rules.
2. The proper format of a vote is either using a vote tag or simply with bold text.
3. Even if I was violating any rules, what does that have to do with my alignment? If I was violating anything, the mod would have replaced me or warned me. Would you also vote my replacement if that was the case?

[Ph0enix]

I would recommend lynching ph0enix and ending the day early with phi kappa phi and lunarrest inactive before they wake up from their slumber after more than 48 hours so we can get moving instead of beating around the bush.

That's some proper bullshit right there.

[Ph0enix]

Will catch up more fully tomorrow.

[Ph0enix]

I love how QQ votes me in 135 because of me supposedly violating some rule. But when he realises the game is not ongoing and I'm not violating anything he's like: "Well, the game's not ongoing, you are not violating any rules, but it's still worth my vote". Somehow.

imagine how weak is to not auto lynch a player mentioning another finished game to another

I mean, what is this? I feel like me and QQ are playing different games here.

The question is, is an action ever too scummy to be scummy, in a sense? Cause, I mean, him actively trying to get me lynched for no good reason is strange, but isn't it too obvious, you know what I'm saying?

I would like to hear more people's opinions when it comes to QQ.

[Ph0enix]

@Cheeky: You voting Titus automatically means that you are unvoting QQ. Why? Do you think his actions are such of a confused Townie of some sort? Or it's something else?

[Ph0enix]

What do you make of him?

From the perspective of him being scum he could be playing intentionally obtuse but I'm not sure how he intends to gain traction on his lynch with these antics.

From the perspective of town I still have no idea what he's doing.

^Pretty much this, to be honest.

[Ph0enix]

Saw TSE and Phoenix as town while spectating. Will reread the game more carefully tomorrow; not feeling mafia right now.

I feel yeah.

Is that:

1. I feel the same way.

or

2. I do feel Mafia, despite you not.

[Ph0enix]

@LL: Could you elaborate more on your scumreads, TSE excluded? Also, are you putting everyone you haven't townread as possible scum because you genuinely suspect them? Because if it's due to the fact that you have insufficient information for a given player, especially on D1, one usually gives them a null read. I mean, having 4 scumreads in the middle of D1 is a bit much, I find.

[Ph0enix]

My only scumread is TSE. My scumbucket, or the pool of players who I currently think could be scum, consists of 4 players. I'm willing to lynch any of the 4 this DP, but I'd prefer TSE.

So in the scenario where you no longer SR TSE, you are going to want to lynch anyone of the other 3 despite you not SRing them?

[Ph0enix]

Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura)

elaborate

Also, +1 here, your 204 didn't answer my question.

[Ph0enix]

Will catch up tomorrow.

[Ph0enix]

Phoenix is the second scum btw.

Great, you went from a null read on me in 221 to outright calling me scum in 228. What made you change your opinion so suddenly? There's literally an hour and a half between the two posts. I doubt my 224 is the thing that swayed you. If you are straight up calling someone scum, you might as well explain why. I'm not buying the whole "I don't wanna split the wagon" thing. The desire to quickly lynch someone and move on to D2 also doesn't make much sense. Considering that 1 or even 2 people are about to be replaced, wouldn't it be a better idea to wait for them first? I mean, you either want active players and will wait for the replacements or you just want to get this day over with, you cannot have it both ways.

VOTE: LL

[Ph0enix]

Tap, LL, Phoenix
Homura, Lunar, QQ
Titus, TSE

Oh I forgot Karnage will skim his ISO in a bit.

Pedit: what? Why is Phoenix scum?

MK.

MK?

[Ph0enix]

@Cheeky: Could you elaborate a bit more on your readslist in 223?

Same goes for TSE's townreads.

And LL's "scumbucket".

[Ph0enix]

Sheepyish.

That does not explain it that well for me. What do you mean by that?

[Ph0enix]

@TSE: Could you answer 253 and 255?

[Ph0enix]

@Homura: Your slot's vote is still on LL. Is it intentional or you have forgotten it's there?

[Ph0enix]

Upon rereading, I really don't like the push on TSE. I find LL focused too much on the 3 posts he was talking about in 201. Do I like the posts? Not really. Am I voting someone solely because of them? Hell no. The fact that Cheeky was quick to change her vote after LL's post rubs me the wrong way as well. I'm more concerned that TSE's voted Cheeky and I still don't know exactly why. Hopefully upon him answering my question in a previous post it will make more sense.

@TSE: Did you elaborate on your Karnage SR? Quote the post if I've missed it, share your thoughts if not.

[Ph0enix]

Lynchpool of {Karnage, Tapioca!slot, Phoenix}. Low confidence on most reads.

Could you elaborate?

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: Cheeky

L minus 1

What made you move your vote from Karnage?

[Ph0enix]

Cheeky still refuses to respond to this.
So until they do I’m never going to Unvote them.

Fair enough.

[Ph0enix]

@LL: Do you genuinely believe that people display similar play depending on what their alignment is? I don't think that's the case. There are some things in the game you are referring to that I wish I had done differently as well as things I think I did right. I'm taking all of this into account for my future games. You can't expect people to behave in the same way when they play a certain role/alignment - it changes, especially when it comes to newbies, like myself. I guess, if you are talking about veterans that have played hundreds of games, there could be an argument that there is a certain pattern when they are playing Town, for example. But to make the same assumptions for a guy for whom this is his 4th game on site? No no no. Definitely not. What I've learned, for example, is that early wagons can potentially provide valuable information. So I didn't judge the people on the Tap wagon and instead let it be. Do I contradict my past self from 1973 by doing that? Hell yes. Is that AI? Absolutely not. Plus, you are referring to 1973, but what about 1976 where I was scum and I played, dare I say, in almost the exact same way I did in 1973? So, same playstyle, different alignments. Here, in this game the playstyle is apparently different from the other two games, where the playstyles are similar. So if that's the case, how is that AI?

In regard to your apparent reaction test on me. Here's one thing that's different from when I played my first game on site. Interpret it however you like - OMGUS gets a bad rap. If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

"I think you, among others, are giving Phoenix far too much towncred for "contributing" when I cannot find one single read he's given in his iso." - Is giving reads the only thing that equals contributing in your opinion? If yes, well then I can see how you see my posts as fluff. If not, then how are my posts fluff, exactly?

[Ph0enix]

When I get a replacement for tapioca, the deadline will be extended so they'll have 2 days to catch up.

You mean it will be extended by 2 days, right? Just to make it clear.

[Ph0enix]

I think the rest of my reads are pretty self-explanatory.

What's your read of me, Cheeky?

I’m liking Titus enthusiasm this game.
LL had a Townie entrance
Phoenix is contributioning quite a bit. In a more Townie way then scummy.
Tap’s interaction with me felt Genuine Town.

Same question for you.

Is this valuable information? Why?

I thought you were fond of reads, what's the problem?

[Ph0enix]

Phoenix is the second scum btw.

Great, you went from a null read on me in 221 to outright calling me scum in 228. What made you change your opinion so suddenly? There's literally an hour and a half between the two posts. I doubt my 224 is the thing that swayed you. If you are straight up calling someone scum, you might as well explain why. I'm not buying the whole "I don't wanna split the wagon" thing. The desire to quickly lynch someone and move on to D2 also doesn't make much sense. Considering that 1 or even 2 people are about to be replaced, wouldn't it be a better idea to wait for them first? I mean, you either want active players and will wait for the replacements or you just want to get this day over with, you cannot have it both ways.

VOTE: LL

This is an average vote.

I've missed that. Why?

[Ph0enix]

What wagon from which game prompted this change in views? Is this the first game where you have decided that early wagons are valuable?

1976 started with a very early wagon and it's what got the game going. Granted, I was not there when it happened as I replaced, but still, form a Town POV I think Town managed to gain information from that.

[Ph0enix]

"I think you, among others, are giving Phoenix far too much towncred for "contributing" when I cannot find one single read he's given in his iso." - Is giving reads the only thing that equals contributing in your opinion? If yes, well then I can see how you see my posts as fluff. If not, then how are my posts fluff, exactly?

Yes.

Well then, I suppose we agree to disagree.

[Ph0enix]

You replaced in on DP2 in 1976. It's pointless to use that game at this juncture as a proper read of your scum meta. DP1 plays out far differently than the rest of the game.

But I replaced on D1.

[Ph0enix]

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

[Ph0enix]

When I get a replacement for tapioca, the deadline will be extended so they'll have 2 days to catch up.

You mean it will be extended by 2 days, right? Just to make it clear.

Missed the post above, my bad.

[Ph0enix]

hello~

Hi, Non.

[Ph0enix]

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

If you think it needs explaining in the first place, I can't possibly explain it to you.

Answering questions for other people, or derailing those questions before they are answered, does not help the town.

Such questions won't help much, either.

[Ph0enix]

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

You gotta be kidding me.

[Ph0enix]

What wagon from which game prompted this change in views? Is this the first game where you have decided that early wagons are valuable?

1976 started with a very early wagon and it's what got the game going. Granted, I was not there when it happened as I replaced, but still, form a Town POV I think Town managed to gain information from that.

Elaborate.

It led to Norway accusing Map for his post he made when he joined the wagon.
Norway's push led to people questioning him.
Which led to an exchange between the players.
Which led to post 75 in that game.
Which led to GBJ's questionable vote on Norway.
Norway's post during that time regarding the events above made people TR him.
etc...

[Ph0enix]

This chain of events literally lead to a mislynch on DP1. You stated in a prior game that you dislike wagons because new players mishandle them and get misread as scum. And you are now citing a wagon, which was mishandled by a new player, which then led to that new player being lynched, as your inspiration for changing your views. Am I reading this correctly?

What sealed GBJ's fate that day had nothing to do with the fact that he was at L-2 before he even showed up. Seemingly, he couldn't care less about that. His reaction to another post is what escalated to an eventual lynch, nothing to do with the wagon itself. His vote was followed by: "the first sentence is sus to me because it seems sus"
And it started there. He did not mishandle the wagon.

[Ph0enix]

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

You gotta be kidding me.

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

As of now, the one asking the question.

[Ph0enix]

Do you still believe that new players could make mistakes when facing a wagon on them that causes them to be misread as scum?

Do you believe that town can establish town cred without wagoning new players and putting them under the sort of pressure that, as you stated, could cause them to make mistakes and be misread as scum?

What is the value of town cred anyway?

Mistakes, probably. Harsh enough to be seen as scum? Not so sure.
I don't know.
Rephrase the question, please.

[Ph0enix]

As of now, the one asking the question.

Why?

I'm not particularly fond of your push on me.

In addition, if for some reason the moderator intervened and said I could not be lynched this dp, who would you lynch in my stead?

I don't know.

[Ph0enix]

Spoiler:

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

If you think it needs explaining in the first place, I can't possibly explain it to you.

Why don't you try?

1）You are Town and do this to get a reaction:
Scenario A) I ignore the vote and don't make much of it
Scenario B) I do what I did and vote you

So scenario A is NAI and scenario B can easily be misinterpreted, so I wouldn't rely on it, either.

2) You are Scum:
Scenario A) I ignore the vote and don't make much of it
Scenario B) I do what I did and vote you

Scenario 2 is still NAI, scenario B gives you a reason to start a push on me.

So you either gain no information, or start a push on me because of me voting you. I think there's better ways to gain information and judge someone than this one.

"If you think so, then perhaps if you really are town you should sit on the sideline and let more experienced town find the scum."
Are you referring to yourself here?

[Ph0enix]

"How do you define town cred, and why is it an important concept?"

Pass.

"With what have we, 8ish days played and 360 posts made, the only thing that has happened thus far that has sparked any desire for a lynch as the day draws closer to its end is the fact that somebody thinks you are mafia? Nothing else has caught your eye? Nothing else stands out to you?"

I'm a fan of NL instead of random lynch, so if I don't have enough information, which I don't, imo, I'd rather abstain.

"Are you not fond of the fact that I made a push on you, or about the details of the push?"

The latter. I don't mind people calling me out on my bullshit. There's not much for you to call me out on, that's the point.

[Ph0enix]

Did I miss anything?

[Ph0enix]

First off, I didn't vote you, I just said you were scum without context in 228. Second, if I gain no information from a reaction test, that does mean the reaction test isn't worth trying. However, I do think your reaction is very curious. Are you claiming that you reacted by voting me as a reaction test to see if I would vote you back? Further, why do you care if somebody thinks you are scum?

I did wrote "ignore the vote" in the previous post, my bad.

What, no? I did because if you make such a reaction test, as I pointed out in a previous post in 2/4 scenarios you gain no information and in the other 2/4 scenarios you gain information which can be easily misinterpreted if you're Town and used as a straight up reason for a vote if you're scum. All in all, I see more value in the reaction test from a scum POV.

It's not that you think I'm scum, it's that you're making a push on me with questionable reasoning.

[Ph0enix]

"Why? How does not answering this question benefit the town?"

How does it do? And quite frankly, it is such a broad question that I don't know what answer you expect.

"We only discovered recently that an extension was being granted. At what point were you planning to advocate a no lynch? In particular, when Titus moved their vote to Cheeky, putting her at L-1, in 307, you questioned the motive. When she stated it was due to the deadline, why did you not begin advocating a no lynch?"

Should've been more clear, I meant NL on my part, as in, me not voting, not no lynching in general.

"Is your vote on me because my reasoning is incorrect, or because it feels artificial?"

The former. What do you mean by artificial?

[Ph0enix]

Is it questionable to think that a player might be scum because they take a course of action that contradicts how they claimed to play the game as town in the past? I understand that you are claiming you have changed your views on early wagons, but do you really believe that finding such a change in behavior suspicious is questionable?

Given the fact that said player does not have a defined style of play and you are judging off of two games alone, yes.

[Ph0enix]

yoink -1

[Ph0enix]

yoink

[Ph0enix]

"First, how do you define town cred?"

For people to think you are Town, I guess.

"Second, why is it important?"

Because people make their decisions in part based on who they TR?

"What's the point of advocating a no lynch if you are just going to watch a lynch happen in front of you that you do not necessarily agree with?"

Can you stop saying I'm advocating for a NL? If there's a lynch happening that I don't agree with and I can't convince the people on the wagon that there's about to be a mislynch or that there's a better lynch alternative, what am I supposed to do?

"Why is being incorrect scum? Have you ever been wrong as town before?"

It isn't necessarily. When you base your push solely on things that are incorrect, though, I think a line should be drawn.

"So are you claiming that reading someone as scum without absolutely certainty is questionable? What degree of certainty is required for a scum-read to be reasonable?"

Reading someone as scum should be justified.

"In addition, why is it that my push on TSE was not reason enough for you to vote me, Phoenix? By the reasoning you are providing now, my push against him should be equally as questionable as my push against you. It seems that the only difference between the two, to be frank, is that one of them accuses you of being scum, and the other does not."

Cause I reread your case on TSE only when I already had voted you as I pointed out in 304.

[Ph0enix]

"I must have missed it, can you show me where in this DP you ever tried to convince somebody that there was either (A) a better lynch alternative than Cheeky, or (B) that a no lynch would be better than lynching Cheeky. You literally watched the wagon build up and now you are saying that all you could do to stop it is /shrug and throw your hands in the air."

A) I don't know if there is one (apart from the obvious)
B) I don't know if that's true, either

"It is incorrect that your play as town in another game contradicts your play as town in this game? By stating that you have changed your style are you not conceding that your current play contradicts your former play?"

I already conceded that my current play contradicts my former play?

"Which means what, exactly?"

It says it right there, I think it's pretty straightforward.

"So you only found my case against TSE questionable after I said you are scum? Interesting. I really am enjoying this exchange. You know that shovel I gave you a few hours ago when this conversation started? I would appreciate it if you could return it to me for future use after you are lynched."

I'll pretend you aren't using me rereading the thread more carefully when I have time instead of reacting to everything right away against me.

[Ph0enix]

@Phoenix, at this point I'm really just waiting for others to chime in. I feel that I've made my point. The one thing you have going for you is not hammering Cheeky when you had the chance, but that's partially off-set by what could be scum!Phoenix trying to get a good reason to hammer from town!Titus. Either way I've convinced by the extent to which you find the mere possibility of somebody viewing you as scum repulsive that your play this game is either bad!town or !scum.

Okay.

[Ph0enix]

@TSE: Could you answer 253 and 255?

And 304 as well. Quote posts if I've missed them.

[Ph0enix]

@Titus: Are you voting Cheeky solely because of her voting you for breaking RVS or there's also something else?

[Ph0enix]

"16 feels like an awkward LAMIST attempt to take the game out of RVS"

So what's the problem with that?

"302 feels shade-y on my slot, but even if unintentional was an odd question to ask."

I didn't want a vote you possibly don't know is there be there, what's so strange about it?

"Phoenix never elaborated on why he's not able to see Luciano's push objectively from a town POV."

His push is opportunistic. So what if I'm playing differently from another Town game of mine? And the statement that everything that is not reads equals not contributing, it's just - what???

"The last "okay" is the worst offender of my complacency theory. He evidently considers Luciano his biggest scumread to the point of wanting him to be the lynch in 356, but not enough to push him?"

How have I not pushed him, exactly?

[Ph0enix]

"Smh, the general hostile attitude Cheeky has taken towards me feels fake."

But isn't that... Cheeky's attitude in general, kinda? (no offense, Cheeky)

@LL: Let's not pretend your SR of me and that of Karnage are the same thing. You outright said I'm scum, providing reasoning 100 posts later. Karnage was SRing me because he didn't know if my reaction to QQ was genuine. First, he was nowhere near as confident in his SR as you are. Second, he didn't vote me. Third, he had way less information in general to make that assumption than you did. Also, why bring that up only now in the first place?

@TSE: Are you voting me because there are more votes on me and there's a higher chance of me getting lynched today, or because you TR LL more than you do me?

"can you explain again why you prefer to abstain from EOD wagons again? I didn´t really get that part."

Quote the post you are referring to, please.

"I hope his mean meta is more than a 1 word analysis of a 17 page game, otherwise its going to be fun evaluating him."

Boy do I have some bad news for you

"It's in the quote."

I don't see the problem there.

"Opportunistic would be if Luciano jumped on you for little cause just to scumread you"

That's what he did, lmao.

"Because throughout your interaction with Luciano, you haven't once attempted a push back. You've only defended yourself the entire time. You obviously scumread him, so why aren't you pushing him? Why did you back off when he did even though you're scumreading him?"

We have different definitions of a push.

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: Phoenix

Looks like Phoenix is the lynch today barring a spectacular claim and a deep flash wagon which is exactly what I didn't want to happen.

You are voting me solely because I'm the most likely option for a lynch today?

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: Phoenix

Looks like Phoenix is the lynch today barring a spectacular claim and a deep flash wagon which is exactly what I didn't want to happen.

You are voting me solely because I'm the most likely option for a lynch today?

Yup. We need to lynch. That's pretty standard. The deadline is in less than a day.

Not particularly fond of that reasoning, not gonna lie. Or the push in general, for that matter.

Fine, you win.

Claiming jailkeeper.

[Ph0enix]

@Titus: What's the theory behind the fact that you think lynching me here even though you TRed me was a better option than not lynching at all: general question, I'm curious.

[Ph0enix]

A mislynch on someone gives town information to go off of and clear determination of who is right and who is wrong.

How? You mean solely the wagon or also something else?

[Ph0enix]

"can you explain again why you prefer to abstain from EOD wagons again? I didn´t really get that part."

Quote the post you are referring to, please.

It's 60 and 63.

It'd vote with phoenix now, but I'm not voting LL today. Intent to hammer Karnage.

I'm pretty sure you quoted the wrong posts here.

[Ph0enix]

*linked the wrong posts

[Ph0enix]

366 & 372 are the posts I meant @phoenix.

Ah yes, that makes more sense. I was referring to the fact that I'm not sure lynching at all costs, especially when it means voting someone you TR or not having that many arguments to support the vote itself apart from that it is done for information purposes (as Titus did when she voted me), is worth the information Town will get from a quite possible mislynch, given the fact that as a result of the lynch Town is one person down for the rest of the game. Several players in this game so far have supported the theory that even a random lynch is more worth it than not lynching at all. But I'm not one of those people, as of now, I don't think it is worth it. That is why in a post above I asked Titus why she supports that theory, I'll assume that because she has quite a few more games under her belt than I do and she is supporting that theory, there is a damn good reason to do so. Maybe she'll convince me it's better after all, that's definitely an option.

[Ph0enix]

TSE is now a full blown scumread.

Elaborate.

+1

[Ph0enix]

@Plot: I don't mind an extension.

[Ph0enix]

VOTE: titus
d1 scumlean, scummy unvote, never did the se voice thing either

Can you elaborate?

Extension please.

@Phoenix, I do support that theory. MS as a whole plays by that theory. To teach anything else is insane.

As for the theory itself, look at almost every finished in any queue. You should see someone getting lynched in 95 percent or more. It's the meta bc it works.

I read a thread here on the forum in which it was explained very well why that works from a purely mathematical POV, even if we ignore the information Town can get from the lynch itself. Basically, I'm sold.

VOTE: Karnage

This is L-1.

[Ph0enix]

hi TSE!
could you give me a quick rundown of your reads rn?

Sure.
LL - Town
Phe0nix - Claimed Jailkeeper
Non Lmh - Slight Town
Homura - Null Town

Scum within (Titus and Karnage)

What's the difference between slight town and null town?

[Ph0enix]

Scum got robbed. :/

Well played, everyone!