Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[LuckyLuciano]

I've pretty much caught up on the DP. I'm going to be heading to sleep soon though. My preliminary thoughts are as follows (These were all notes being posted in the order I took them):

- Leaning scum on TSE. If TSE is scum, we are playing setup A or B. #30 likely to come from scum within a PR mafia that is looking for town to hint that the Goon + Goon theory is wrong. Any town that knows the setup is not C would only know so because they are a power role.
-- Further, in my initial reading, an again in my rereading, while I agree that the usage of "mafioso" could be a town slip (LR is a new player using the lingo he is used to, if the official lingo for mafioso on MS is Mafia Goon, then the term mafioso wouldn't be at the forefront of a new scum's mind when referring to mafia), I highly dislike it being called a "sorta" townslip. Either he believes it's a townslip or not. To even call this out as a town slip is rather acute analysis, and as town I believe he would read it more strongly. As mafia, he is incentivized to avoid heavily establishing townies as innocent. The whole post feels artificially constructed such for the reasons listed above, but also so that in event of a mislynch he can come back and say he read LR as a town early on in order to try and get town cred.
- Leaning town on QQ. This sort of play, in my experience, never comes from a truly new player. He either has experience on MS and is an alt account who actually shouldn't be in the game, or he has off-site experience. Either way, he's either trolling or actually trying to win. If he's trolling then it isn't work reading him. If he's trying to win, then there is a rationale behind his post. [I'm redacting the rest of my notes here as it is more beneficial to mafia than town.]

-----

Follow-up on TSE

- I dislike #31 and #35.
-- #31, TSE appears to be consistently avoiding taking a stance. Sure, it's the earliest stages of the game where reads are weakest, but that is even more reason for town to pursue their gut reads in order to generate discussion and establish behavioral reads. Mafia benefits from leaving as many doors open by avoiding a static advocacy. In my experience, players who stay light on their feet are more often mafia than town. As town, players are less likely to even consider the need to change their views until a reason to do so is presented. As a figure of speech, they navigate through the DP with their feet more firmly planted.
-- #35 Let's break down his logic. TSE claims that if there is a mafia PR listed in the mafia pm, then it would not be normal for a player who has read that mafia pm to use the term, "Mafioso." This is because, while "mafioso" may be their default lingo when referring to mafia, this would be subconsciously replaced by the specified name for the mafia role provided in the role pm. Therefore, either (1) there is no mafia power role in the mafia pm, or (2) LR is town and has not read the mafia pm. (1) is a faulty deduction because even lacking a power role, the mafia pm should still state that the players are mafia goons, and that specified name for the mafia players would still override "mafioso" in LR's subconscious. As TSE is an SE player, it's possible that he has made this logical mistake before in the past. If he can go through his own meta and show an instance in which he's done so as town, I would read this as NAI. Absent a case of him having done this before as town, it feels like artificial analysis and he looks like scum to me.

-----

- Titus is probably town. Of all players in the game, they have shown the most consistent conviction in their reads and development thereof. Even when people cling to RVS, Titus is trying to progress the game so that the town have substantive interactions to build reads off of.

-----

- Cheeky is also town; for similar reasons as Titus.

-----

- Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura). Even though the Phi slot hasn't posted substance yet, I'm leaning town on everyone else so far so by PoE he's in this group. Reads can change later on, but I'm fine with a DP1 lynch of any of the above pending reasons to vote otherwise. As TSE is my strongest scumread atm, VOTE: TSE.

[LuckyLuciano]

My only scumread is TSE. My scumbucket, or the pool of players who I currently think could be scum, consists of 4 players. I'm willing to lynch any of the 4 this DP, but I'd prefer TSE.

[LuckyLuciano]

This is my first game on MS. I've played for a few years on the now defunt debate.org. It's been about a year or so since I've played, however. What's WIM?

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

I think there playing in their scum meta.

LL is Town.

What is their scum meta?

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL, I like your entry.

Can you elaborate on why Cheeky is town? I don't see it.

14 This comes on strong and possible aggressive. Even though it's meant to be humorous and lackadaisical, I find it less likely for mafia to enter like this.
15 NAI
23 I thought the exact same thing while obvserving. You said you would put on your SE hat when a wagon started, and then moved to stop the wagon the moment it started picking up momentum. I understand why you ($Titus) hopped off the wagon and by no mean think it was the wrong move, but I also thought it was odd just like Cheeky did here. With me having access to my own role pm and knowing I'm town, and having thought that before even having a role pm (I think as a town while observing), this post makes me lean town on Cheeky through transposition. Also, it looks here like Cheeky is natural building reads.
39 NAI
40 NAI
41 Lean town. This read is the converse of why I lean town on TSE in 35
42 Null. Could have enough reasons now to justify a vote (town) or finally have someone to scapegoat if things go south (mafia).
93 Null. Both town and mafia have reason to drop votes on people using this sort of shtick.
95 Null. I'd need to read Cheeky's meta for this. In my experience, mafia are more likely to invoke OMGUS, but - and this is purely anecdotal and not meant to offend anyone - so are women of any alignment.
96 Null. Titus has been her target all game, it makes sense why QQ would be a consideration at this point.
102 Lean town. I thought this while observing as well. Lean town by transposition.
105 Lean town. Mafia doesn't want to generate discussion as to why their mislynch target is town.
126 NAI
127 Lean town. Still trying to generate content in the DP to base the final lynch vote on. More content is better for town.
134 NAI.
136 Lean town. Non-leading and non-aggressive questioning that gives an opportunity for someone she suspect's to give an unfiltered answer that might be alignment indicative.
141 Null. I'd like to see a bit more prodding here from town. The overall state of the game at the time of this post explains the dispassion, however.
143 Lean town. Scum could use QQ as an easy lynch, but instead Cheeky is leveling with QQ, and trying to get players to take meaningful stances. All the while Cheeky is taking a meaningful stance pretty consistently, much like I said Titus has been. Note how these two contrast from TSE, who stays light on his feet even when making reads.
144 Null. If 141 is coming from town|cheeky, this this post is town.
145 Null.
154 Lean town. I would feel the same way if I was in the game already playing as town trying to be productive and everyone else is either posting nonsense or still needs to catch up to contribute.
155 Lean town. Despite ^above, still pushing the DP forward.
181 Null. The actual gameplay pattern cheeky mentions, however, I believe is accurate. In beginner games hosted on my former site, experienced players tended to avoid other experienced players as scum and opted to NK them early.
182 Lean town. While town take firm stances and scum do not, town still changes their stance when a reason arises to do so. Scum have to force cases to make them work and are far more likely to tunnel, and less likely to drop such an easy lynch target as QQ so lightly.
184 Lean town. Consistent with her play thus far and the reasons listed above.
191 Lean town. Wants information to act off of, but understands the value of a reaction test and doesn't try to tear it down so that they can be in-the-know.
198 Lean town. As always, trying to generate content.
199 Lean town. See above.
205 Null. Is it the case on mafiascum that scum players never make cases early?
207 NAI.
208 Lean scum. This is the one post I don't really like. If this is true, why not bring it up before I entered the game? Could be null, and probably is, but explaining why is less valuable than seeing how @Cheeky responds.

My only scumread is TSE. My scumbucket, or the pool of players who I currently think could be scum, consists of 4 players. I'm willing to lynch any of the 4 this DP, but I'd prefer TSE.

So in the scenario where you no longer SR TSE, you are going to want to lynch anyone of the other 3 despite you not SRing them?

Yes. Lynches provide information. I'd rather lynch using a random number generator DP1 than no lynch, absent a setup that makes a no lynch advantageous. Granted that we have content to analyze, we've moved beyond the necessity of using RNG to determine a lynch target and have reasons to lynch or not lynch certain players based upon their behavior. Everyone outside of the 4 players I've mentioned have exhibited behavior or insight that leads me to not want to lynch them on DP1. I think that lynching on DP1 is good, and I think that lynching one of the 3 players in my bucket that I do null read provides more value than lynching a player I town read. This value is generated through multiple worlds theory. Assuming players who act town are town more often than not, and players who do not are town less often than so, lynching a player who does not act town will benefit the town in more worlds than it does not, and vice versa.

[LuckyLuciano]

So I've voted both Titus and TSE and both have scumread me in return. Tap TR is strengthened by the timing of their vote on me although I do not understand their logic.

I'm currently at:

Tap, LL, Phoenix
Homura, Lunar, QQ
Titus, TSE

Phoenix is the second scum btw.

[LuckyLuciano]

Tap, LL, Phoenix
Homura, Lunar, QQ
Titus, TSE

Oh I forgot Karnage will skim his ISO in a bit.

Pedit: what? Why is Phoenix scum?

I'd rather not elaborate the case and split the wagon that I'm trying to build on TSE when over half the players in this game are inactive or disinterested. Just know if we lynch TSE and he flips scum, and I die in the night, that you lynch Phoenix tomorrow.

[LuckyLuciano]

Would the players who willingly signed up for this game, just perhaps, like to play the game?

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

- Leaning scum on TSE. If TSE is scum, we are playing setup A or B. #30 likely to come from scum within a PR mafia that is looking for town to hint that the Goon + Goon theory is wrong. Any town that knows the setup is not C would only know so because they are a power role.
-- Further, in my initial reading, an again in my rereading, while I agree that the usage of "mafioso" could be a town slip (LR is a new player using the lingo he is used to, if the official lingo for mafioso on MS is Mafia Goon, then the term mafioso wouldn't be at the forefront of a new scum's mind when referring to mafia), I highly dislike it being called a "sorta" townslip. Either he believes it's a townslip or not. To even call this out as a town slip is rather acute analysis, and as town I believe he would read it more strongly. As mafia, he is incentivized to avoid heavily establishing townies as innocent. The whole post feels artificially constructed such for the reasons listed above, but also so that in event of a mislynch he can come back and say he read LR as a town early on in order to try and get town cred.

Not convinced by your analysis of 30. I can see your rationale, but considering the context of the post (early game, barely post-RVS), it's far out to say TSE was trying spin Lunar's mafioso comment into a setup slip. From 30 and 35 it's evident TSE leaned on the latter of the two scenarios he presented, and therefore the wording of "sorta townslip" implies he didn't believe it was one. Subsequently, scum!TSE can't claim he read Lunar as town in case of a mislynch.

You are missing the point entirely. You are saying that TSE more strongly believes that there are 2 mafia goons than LR making a townslip is indicative of him being town, but there is no reason for town!TSE to uniquely believe this. There is, however, unique reason for scum!TSE to believe this, he knows that there are two goons. The saving-face part of the analysis is the less important part.

WRT 31, feel like you're specifically taking issue with TSE taking Titus's vote progression as NAI when both Tapioca and Phoenix also took it as such. I found it NAI and leaned town-indicative only after Titus elaborated. What's different with TSE?

Phoenix is scum and Tapioca is new.

What do you think of the TSE-Titus exchange in posts 164-168?

Fluff with potential. In other words, TSE gets to be active without meaningfully contributing to the DP, and if Titus doesn't give a good defense, then TSE can go for the easy mislynch target of QQ and still not have to combat Titus later on as he's tied his scum!Titus read to scum!QQ, allowing him to stay light on his feet when QQ flips town.

Look, the mafia is between TSE, Phoenix, you, and Karnage. TSE might be town, but if we lynch within this group we win. Unless strong reason can be given to lynch somebody outside of this pool, let's just start dropping the votes. DP1 has shown an immense amount of disinterest and inactivity with numerous replacements. Let's just get a lynch and move on to DP2. We'll have far more information from (1) the flip, (2) the NK, and (3) night phase actions. Dragging on DP1 is just going to cause players to further lose interest.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Homura, after catching up on the entire DP, do you have any thoughts other than the minute details you decided to pick at in those two posts?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Titus, who would you like to lynch this DP?

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

I think there playing in their scum meta.

LL is Town.

What is their scum meta?

Sheepyish.

Could you give an example?

Spoiler:

I've pretty much caught up on the DP. I'm going to be heading to sleep soon though. My preliminary thoughts are as follows (These were all notes being posted in the order I took them):

- Leaning scum on TSE. If TSE is scum, we are playing setup A or B. #30 likely to come from scum within a PR mafia that is looking for town to hint that the Goon + Goon theory is wrong. Any town that knows the setup is not C would only know so because they are a power role.
-- Further, in my initial reading, an again in my rereading, while I agree that the usage of "mafioso" could be a town slip (LR is a new player using the lingo he is used to, if the official lingo for mafioso on MS is Mafia Goon, then the term mafioso wouldn't be at the forefront of a new scum's mind when referring to mafia), I highly dislike it being called a "sorta" townslip. Either he believes it's a townslip or not. To even call this out as a town slip is rather acute analysis, and as town I believe he would read it more strongly. As mafia, he is incentivized to avoid heavily establishing townies as innocent. The whole post feels artificially constructed such for the reasons listed above, but also so that in event of a mislynch he can come back and say he read LR as a town early on in order to try and get town cred.
- Leaning town on QQ. This sort of play, in my experience, never comes from a truly new player. He either has experience on MS and is an alt account who actually shouldn't be in the game, or he has off-site experience. Either way, he's either trolling or actually trying to win. If he's trolling then it isn't work reading him. If he's trying to win, then there is a rationale behind his post. [I'm redacting the rest of my notes here as it is more beneficial to mafia than town.]

-----

Follow-up on TSE

- I dislike #31 and #35.
-- #31, TSE appears to be consistently avoiding taking a stance. Sure, it's the earliest stages of the game where reads are weakest, but that is even more reason for town to pursue their gut reads in order to generate discussion and establish behavioral reads. Mafia benefits from leaving as many doors open by avoiding a static advocacy. In my experience, players who stay light on their feet are more often mafia than town. As town, players are less likely to even consider the need to change their views until a reason to do so is presented. As a figure of speech, they navigate through the DP with their feet more firmly planted.
-- #35 Let's break down his logic. TSE claims that if there is a mafia PR listed in the mafia pm, then it would not be normal for a player who has read that mafia pm to use the term, "Mafioso." This is because, while "mafioso" may be their default lingo when referring to mafia, this would be subconsciously replaced by the specified name for the mafia role provided in the role pm. Therefore, either (1) there is no mafia power role in the mafia pm, or (2) LR is town and has not read the mafia pm. (1) is a faulty deduction because even lacking a power role, the mafia pm should still state that the players are mafia goons, and that specified name for the mafia players would still override "mafioso" in LR's subconscious. As TSE is an SE player, it's possible that he has made this logical mistake before in the past. If he can go through his own meta and show an instance in which he's done so as town, I would read this as NAI. Absent a case of him having done this before as town, it feels like artificial analysis and he looks like scum to me.

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- Titus is probably town. Of all players in the game, they have shown the most consistent conviction in their reads and development thereof. Even when people cling to RVS, Titus is trying to progress the game so that the town have substantive interactions to build reads off of.

-----

- Cheeky is also town; for similar reasons as Titus.

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- Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura). Even though the Phi slot hasn't posted substance yet, I'm leaning town on everyone else so far so by PoE he's in this group. Reads can change later on, but I'm fine with a DP1 lynch of any of the above pending reasons to vote otherwise. As TSE is my strongest scumread atm, VOTE: TSE.

Fair.
And I’m actually not great at communicating.
I’m better at getting good reads/solves.

So you say you lean scum on Karnage yes?

No. I'm more inclined to believe phoenix is scum than Karnage. My position is simple. I believe lynching DP1 is net positive to the town in comparison to no lynching, absent reason derived from the setup to no lynch. I have reason specific to each player not in my scum bucket to believe they are town. I'd rather lynch someone who has not shown themselves to be town than someone who has. Just because I'm willing to lynch someone does not mean I think that they are scum. Who would you like to lynch this dp?

[LuckyLuciano]

Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura)

elaborate

Would the players who willingly signed up for this game, just perhaps, like to play the game?

Would the player who willingly replaced into this game, just perhaps, like to respond to the post below?

Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura)

elaborate

@LL: Could you elaborate more on your scumreads, TSE excluded? Also, are you putting everyone you haven't townread as possible scum because you genuinely suspect them? Because if it's due to the fact that you have insufficient information for a given player, especially on D1, one usually gives them a null read. I mean, having 4 scumreads in the middle of D1 is a bit much, I find.

@Cheeky: Could you elaborate a bit more on your readslist in 223?

Same goes for TSE's townreads.

And LL's "scumbucket".

How many times are you two going to ask the same question before reading what I post? I've answered this three times, including in my first post in the game.

Spoiler:

I've pretty much caught up on the DP. I'm going to be heading to sleep soon though. My preliminary thoughts are as follows (These were all notes being posted in the order I took them):

- Leaning scum on TSE. If TSE is scum, we are playing setup A or B. #30 likely to come from scum within a PR mafia that is looking for town to hint that the Goon + Goon theory is wrong. Any town that knows the setup is not C would only know so because they are a power role.
-- Further, in my initial reading, an again in my rereading, while I agree that the usage of "mafioso" could be a town slip (LR is a new player using the lingo he is used to, if the official lingo for mafioso on MS is Mafia Goon, then the term mafioso wouldn't be at the forefront of a new scum's mind when referring to mafia), I highly dislike it being called a "sorta" townslip. Either he believes it's a townslip or not. To even call this out as a town slip is rather acute analysis, and as town I believe he would read it more strongly. As mafia, he is incentivized to avoid heavily establishing townies as innocent. The whole post feels artificially constructed such for the reasons listed above, but also so that in event of a mislynch he can come back and say he read LR as a town early on in order to try and get town cred.
- Leaning town on QQ. This sort of play, in my experience, never comes from a truly new player. He either has experience on MS and is an alt account who actually shouldn't be in the game, or he has off-site experience. Either way, he's either trolling or actually trying to win. If he's trolling then it isn't work reading him. If he's trying to win, then there is a rationale behind his post. [I'm redacting the rest of my notes here as it is more beneficial to mafia than town.]

-----

Follow-up on TSE

- I dislike #31 and #35.
-- #31, TSE appears to be consistently avoiding taking a stance. Sure, it's the earliest stages of the game where reads are weakest, but that is even more reason for town to pursue their gut reads in order to generate discussion and establish behavioral reads. Mafia benefits from leaving as many doors open by avoiding a static advocacy. In my experience, players who stay light on their feet are more often mafia than town. As town, players are less likely to even consider the need to change their views until a reason to do so is presented. As a figure of speech, they navigate through the DP with their feet more firmly planted.
-- #35 Let's break down his logic. TSE claims that if there is a mafia PR listed in the mafia pm, then it would not be normal for a player who has read that mafia pm to use the term, "Mafioso." This is because, while "mafioso" may be their default lingo when referring to mafia, this would be subconsciously replaced by the specified name for the mafia role provided in the role pm. Therefore, either (1) there is no mafia power role in the mafia pm, or (2) LR is town and has not read the mafia pm. (1) is a faulty deduction because even lacking a power role, the mafia pm should still state that the players are mafia goons, and that specified name for the mafia players would still override "mafioso" in LR's subconscious. As TSE is an SE player, it's possible that he has made this logical mistake before in the past. If he can go through his own meta and show an instance in which he's done so as town, I would read this as NAI. Absent a case of him having done this before as town, it feels like artificial analysis and he looks like scum to me.

-----

- Titus is probably town. Of all players in the game, they have shown the most consistent conviction in their reads and development thereof. Even when people cling to RVS, Titus is trying to progress the game so that the town have substantive interactions to build reads off of.

-----

- Cheeky is also town; for similar reasons as Titus.

-----

- Scum is probably between TSE, Phoenix, Karnage, and Phi (Homura). Even though the Phi slot hasn't posted substance yet,

I'm leaning town on everyone else so far so by PoE he's in this group.

Reads can change later on, but I'm fine with a DP1 lynch of any of the above pending reasons to vote otherwise. As TSE is my strongest scumread atm, VOTE: TSE.

My only scumread is TSE. My scumbucket, or the pool of players who I currently think could be scum, consists of 4 players. I'm willing to lynch any of the 4 this DP, but I'd prefer TSE.

Spoiler:

@LL, I like your entry.

Can you elaborate on why Cheeky is town? I don't see it.

14 This comes on strong and possible aggressive. Even though it's meant to be humorous and lackadaisical, I find it less likely for mafia to enter like this.
15 NAI
23 I thought the exact same thing while obvserving. You said you would put on your SE hat when a wagon started, and then moved to stop the wagon the moment it started picking up momentum. I understand why you ($Titus) hopped off the wagon and by no mean think it was the wrong move, but I also thought it was odd just like Cheeky did here. With me having access to my own role pm and knowing I'm town, and having thought that before even having a role pm (I think as a town while observing), this post makes me lean town on Cheeky through transposition. Also, it looks here like Cheeky is natural building reads.
39 NAI
40 NAI
41 Lean town. This read is the converse of why I lean town on TSE in 35
42 Null. Could have enough reasons now to justify a vote (town) or finally have someone to scapegoat if things go south (mafia).
93 Null. Both town and mafia have reason to drop votes on people using this sort of shtick.
95 Null. I'd need to read Cheeky's meta for this. In my experience, mafia are more likely to invoke OMGUS, but - and this is purely anecdotal and not meant to offend anyone - so are women of any alignment.
96 Null. Titus has been her target all game, it makes sense why QQ would be a consideration at this point.
102 Lean town. I thought this while observing as well. Lean town by transposition.
105 Lean town. Mafia doesn't want to generate discussion as to why their mislynch target is town.
126 NAI
127 Lean town. Still trying to generate content in the DP to base the final lynch vote on. More content is better for town.
134 NAI.
136 Lean town. Non-leading and non-aggressive questioning that gives an opportunity for someone she suspect's to give an unfiltered answer that might be alignment indicative.
141 Null. I'd like to see a bit more prodding here from town. The overall state of the game at the time of this post explains the dispassion, however.
143 Lean town. Scum could use QQ as an easy lynch, but instead Cheeky is leveling with QQ, and trying to get players to take meaningful stances. All the while Cheeky is taking a meaningful stance pretty consistently, much like I said Titus has been. Note how these two contrast from TSE, who stays light on his feet even when making reads.
144 Null. If 141 is coming from town|cheeky, this this post is town.
145 Null.
154 Lean town. I would feel the same way if I was in the game already playing as town trying to be productive and everyone else is either posting nonsense or still needs to catch up to contribute.
155 Lean town. Despite ^above, still pushing the DP forward.
181 Null. The actual gameplay pattern cheeky mentions, however, I believe is accurate. In beginner games hosted on my former site, experienced players tended to avoid other experienced players as scum and opted to NK them early.
182 Lean town. While town take firm stances and scum do not, town still changes their stance when a reason arises to do so. Scum have to force cases to make them work and are far more likely to tunnel, and less likely to drop such an easy lynch target as QQ so lightly.
184 Lean town. Consistent with her play thus far and the reasons listed above.
191 Lean town. Wants information to act off of, but understands the value of a reaction test and doesn't try to tear it down so that they can be in-the-know.
198 Lean town. As always, trying to generate content.
199 Lean town. See above.
205 Null. Is it the case on mafiascum that scum players never make cases early?
207 NAI.
208 Lean scum. This is the one post I don't really like. If this is true, why not bring it up before I entered the game? Could be null, and probably is, but explaining why is less valuable than seeing how @Cheeky responds.

My only scumread is TSE. My scumbucket, or the pool of players who I currently think could be scum, consists of 4 players. I'm willing to lynch any of the 4 this DP, but I'd prefer TSE.

So in the scenario where you no longer SR TSE, you are going to want to lynch anyone of the other 3 despite you not SRing them?

Yes. Lynches provide information. I'd rather lynch using a random number generator DP1 than no lynch, absent a setup that makes a no lynch advantageous. Granted that we have content to analyze, we've moved beyond the necessity of using RNG to determine a lynch target and have reasons to lynch or not lynch certain players based upon their behavior.

Everyone outside of the 4 players I've mentioned have exhibited behavior or insight that leads me to not want to lynch them on DP1. I think that lynching on DP1 is good, and I think that lynching one of the 3 players in my bucket that I do null read provides more value than lynching a player I town read.

This value is generated through multiple worlds theory. Assuming players who act town are town more often than not, and players who do not are town less often than so, lynching a player who does not act town will benefit the town in more worlds than it does not, and vice versa.

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: CheekyTeeky

I think there playing in their scum meta.

LL is Town.

I dont know about their meta but I didn't like 205

Wow nice entrance, I'm sold. Both on LL being town and TSE

having no WIM

because he's

scum here.

VOTE: TSE

LL is this your first game of mafia?

@CheekyTeeky

Elaborate on Bolded.

Cheeky still refuses to respond to this.
So until they do I’m never going to Unvote them.

This was answered days ago.

This is my first game on MS. I've played for a few years on the now defunt debate.org. It's been about a year or so since I've played, however. What's WIM?

I suppose that explains why you present so eloquently. WIM is Want It More, in the context of my usage I would translate as "passion" or "enthusiasm"

I have played with TSE and have found that he's a very

passionate

player as town. He hasn't been hitting the right notes for me this game to townread him as yet so why not poke the bear?

[LuckyLuciano]

I recommend everyone who is town or phoenix or scum on cheeky to read through https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81548. Both were town in that game, yet Cheeky's play is identical to here and Phoenix's is far different. Focus primarily on Phoenix's conviction and the aggressiveness in his play. Literally everything he has posted this game has been either fluff and/or non-accusatory. The phrase "I believe" and its variants are omni-present when town!phoenix plays yet have been used 0 times this game. Further, there is a major contradiction between his town play in that game and his opening to this game. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11445086 He specifically stated,

So I decided to unvote Chazary in order to avoid starting some kind of wagon as with Gyro.

When questioned by Farren,

Why do you want to avoid starting wagons? Or is it something specific about not wanting to start a wagon on chazary specifically?

He responded,

Oh no, it's not player-related. I'm just not a fan of them during RVS, I don't believe they do a good job in providing people with information, and in our case, considering we're in a Newbie game, some players who are less experienced and are at the receiving end of a wagon may panic and slip up because of that, regardless of alignment, which, considering the ratio between Town and Mafia players, is not in Town's favor.

Yet, this game he willingly let the wagon on Tapi, a new player, build immediately upon game start without hesitation and without unvoting, which according to his past game, he believes would have been the pro-town move.

In addition, while I've had Phoenix as gut-scum all game due to his noncommittal play and unnecessary fluffing, me straight out saying he was scum was a reaction test. His reaction of hard OMGUS here directly contradicts the way town!phoenix reacted in that game to being scumread,

So I'll assume my response was unsatisfactory and you still suspect me. Quite interesting.

UNVOTE: TSE VOTE: Phoenix.

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL
Looking over my recent posts.
What are your thoughts?

I think you, among others, are giving Phoenix far too much towncred for "contributing" when I cannot find one single read he's given in his iso. Given my recent dig into his meta showing that he would rather disrupt wagons on new players by unvoting than let them build, and your town-read on Tapi, are you willing to believe that Phoenix not unvoting Tapi to stop the wagon, and instead asking Titus for their opinion on the wagon, looks at least partially SvT?

[LuckyLuciano]

I think the rest of my reads are pretty self-explanatory.

What's your read of me, Cheeky?

I’m liking Titus enthusiasm this game.
LL had a Townie entrance
Phoenix is contributioning quite a bit. In a more Townie way then scummy.
Tap’s interaction with me felt Genuine Town.

Same question for you.

Is this valuable information? Why?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Crush, not really. I'm still keen on lynching the same 4 players.

[LuckyLuciano]

How many times are you two going to ask the same question before reading what I post? I've answered this three times, including in my first post in the game.

I'm asking you to go deeper into why you have the reads you do. You say these four players are in your scumbucket but you don't give any real reasons for why

I don't know how else you want me to say exactly what I have been. Every other player in the game, I believe have shown signs of being town. These 4 players have not. Obviously not all 4 of them are scum, there are only 2 scum in this game. They are the 4 players that

could

be scum. Some of them I have reason to believe on scum, others are in there simply through process of elimination.

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL: Do you genuinely believe that people display similar play depending on what their alignment is? I don't think that's the case.

Yes.

There are some things in the game you are referring to that I wish I had done differently as well as things I think I did right. I'm taking all of this into account for my future games. You can't expect people to behave in the same way when they play a certain role/alignment - it changes, especially when it comes to newbies, like myself. I guess, if you are talking about veterans that have played hundreds of games, there could be an argument that there is a certain pattern when they are playing Town, for example. But to make the same assumptions for a guy for whom this is his 4th game on site? No no no. Definitely not. What I've learned, for example, is that early wagons can potentially provide valuable information.

What wagon from which game prompted this change in views? Is this the first game where you have decided that early wagons are valuable?

So I didn't judge the people on the Tap wagon and instead let it be. Do I contradict my past self from 1973 by doing that? Hell yes. Is that AI? Absolutely not. Plus, you are referring to 1973, but what about 1976 where I was scum and I played, dare I say, in almost the exact same way I did in 1973? So, same playstyle, different alignments. Here, in this game the playstyle is apparently different from the other two games, where the playstyles are similar. So if that's the case, how is that AI?

You replaced in on DP2 in 1976. It's pointless to use that game at this juncture as a proper read of your scum meta. DP1 plays out far differently than the rest of the game.

In regard to your apparent reaction test on me. Here's one thing that's different from when I played my first game on site. Interpret it however you like - OMGUS gets a bad rap. If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

"I think you, among others, are giving Phoenix far too much towncred for "contributing" when I cannot find one single read he's given in his iso." - Is giving reads the only thing that equals contributing in your opinion? If yes, well then I can see how you see my posts as fluff. If not, then how are my posts fluff, exactly?

Yes.

[LuckyLuciano]

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

[LuckyLuciano]

I think the rest of my reads are pretty self-explanatory.

What's your read of me, Cheeky?

I’m liking Titus enthusiasm this game.
LL had a Townie entrance
Phoenix is contributioning quite a bit. In a more Townie way then scummy.
Tap’s interaction with me felt Genuine Town.

Same question for you.

Is this valuable information? Why?

I thought you were fond of reads, what's the problem?

Answering questions for other people, or derailing those questions before they are answered, does not help the town.

[LuckyLuciano]

What wagon from which game prompted this change in views? Is this the first game where you have decided that early wagons are valuable?

1976 started with a very early wagon and it's what got the game going. Granted, I was not there when it happened as I replaced, but still, form a Town POV I think Town managed to gain information from that.

Elabortate.

You replaced in on DP2 in 1976. It's pointless to use that game at this juncture as a proper read of your scum meta. DP1 plays out far differently than the rest of the game.

But I replaced on D1.

My mistake, you replaced in 330 posts into a DP1 which is still far different than starting the game as mafia. You understood the point I was making.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

If you think it needs explaining in the first place, I can't possibly explain it to you.

Why don't you try?

Answering questions for other people, or derailing those questions before they are answered, does not help the town.

Such questions won't help much, either.

If you think so, then perhaps if you really are town you should sit on the sideline and let more experienced town find the scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

You gotta be kidding me.

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

[LuckyLuciano]

What wagon from which game prompted this change in views? Is this the first game where you have decided that early wagons are valuable?

1976 started with a very early wagon and it's what got the game going. Granted, I was not there when it happened as I replaced, but still, form a Town POV I think Town managed to gain information from that.

Elaborate.

It led to Norway accusing Map for his post he made when he joined the wagon.
Norway's push led to people questioning him.
Which led to an exchange between the players.
Which led to post 75 in that game.
Which led to GBJ's questionable vote on Norway.
Norway's post during that time regarding the events above made people TR him.
etc...

This chain of events literally lead to a mislynch on DP1. You stated in a prior game that you dislike wagons because new players mishandle them and get misread as scum. And you are now citing a wagon, which was mishandled by a new player, which then led to that new player being lynched, as your inspiration for changing your views. Am I reading this correctly?

[LuckyLuciano]

Do you still believe that new players could make mistakes when facing a wagon on them that causes them to be misread as scum?

Do you believe that town can establish town cred without wagoning new players and putting them under the sort of pressure that, as you stated, could cause them to make mistakes and be misread as scum?

What is the value of town cred anyway?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

You gotta be kidding me.

@Phoenix, who would you like to lynch this dp?

As of now, the one asking the question.

Why?

[LuckyLuciano]

In addition, if for some reason the moderator intervened and said I could not be lynched this dp, who would you lynch in my stead?

[LuckyLuciano]

Do you still believe that new players could make mistakes when facing a wagon on them that causes them to be misread as scum?

Do you believe that town can establish town cred without wagoning new players and putting them under the sort of pressure that, as you stated, could cause them to make mistakes and be misread as scum?

What is the value of town cred anyway?

Mistakes, probably. Harsh enough to be seen as scum? Not so sure.
I don't know.
Rephrase the question, please.

[/quote]

How do you define town cred, and why is it an important concept?

As of now, the one asking the question.

Why?

I'm not particularly fond of your push on me.

Are you not fond of the fact that I made a push on you, or about the details of the push?

In addition, if for some reason the moderator intervened and said I could not be lynched this dp, who would you lynch in my stead?

I don't know.

With what have we, 8ish days played and 360 posts made, the only thing that has happened thus far that has sparked any desire for a lynch as the day draws closer to its end is the fact that somebody thinks you are mafia? Nothing else has caught your eye? Nothing else stands out to you?

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm going to fix up that last post.

Do you still believe that new players could make mistakes when facing a wagon on them that causes them to be misread as scum?

Do you believe that town can establish town cred without wagoning new players and putting them under the sort of pressure that, as you stated, could cause them to make mistakes and be misread as scum?

What is the value of town cred anyway?

Mistakes, probably. Harsh enough to be seen as scum? Not so sure.
I don't know.
Rephrase the question, please.

How do you define town cred, and why is it an important concept?

As of now, the one asking the question.

Why?

I'm not particularly fond of your push on me.

Are you not fond of the fact that I made a push on you, or about the details of the push?

In addition, if for some reason the moderator intervened and said I could not be lynched this dp, who would you lynch in my stead?

I don't know.

With what have we, 8ish days played and 360 posts made, the only thing that has happened thus far that has sparked any desire for a lynch as the day draws closer to its end is the fact that somebody thinks you are mafia? Nothing else has caught your eye? Nothing else stands out to you?[/quote]

[LuckyLuciano]

@Phoenix, if you could address this, that would be great.

Spoiler:

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

If you think it needs explaining in the first place, I can't possibly explain it to you.

Why don't you try?

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

I am wondering, actually. Why is this the case?

Why is what the case? The phrasing confused me here.

Why is it that,

If you accuse me of being scum right out of the gate without providing reasoning and just simply claiming it, I'm voting you and you should not wonder why I'm voting you. Period.

If you think it needs explaining in the first place, I can't possibly explain it to you.

Why don't you try?

1）You are Town and do this to get a reaction:
Scenario A) I ignore the vote and don't make much of it
Scenario B) I do what I did and vote you

So scenario A is NAI and scenario B can easily be misinterpreted, so I wouldn't rely on it, either.

2) You are Scum:
Scenario A) I ignore the vote and don't make much of it
Scenario B) I do what I did and vote you

Scenario 2 is still NAI, scenario B gives you a reason to start a push on me.

So you either gain no information, or start a push on me because of me voting you. I think there's better ways to gain information and judge someone than this one.

"If you think so, then perhaps if you really are town you should sit on the sideline and let more experienced town find the scum."
Are you referring to yourself here?

First off, I didn't vote you, I just said you were scum without context in 228. Second, if I gain no information from a reaction test, that does mean the reaction test isn't worth trying. However, I do think your reaction is very curious. Are you claiming that you reacted by voting me as a reaction test to see if I would vote you back? Further, why do you care if somebody thinks you are scum?

[LuckyLuciano]

"How do you define town cred, and why is it an important concept?"

Pass.

Why? How does not answering this question benefit the town?

"With what have we, 8ish days played and 360 posts made, the only thing that has happened thus far that has sparked any desire for a lynch as the day draws closer to its end is the fact that somebody thinks you are mafia? Nothing else has caught your eye? Nothing else stands out to you?"

I'm a fan of NL instead of random lynch, so if I don't have enough information, which I don't, imo, I'd rather abstain.

We only discovered recently that an extension was being granted. At what point were you planning to advocate a no lynch? In particular, when Titus moved their vote to Cheeky, putting her at L-1, in 307, you questioned the motive. When she stated it was due to the deadline, why did you not begin advocating a no lynch?

"Are you not fond of the fact that I made a push on you, or about the details of the push?"

The latter. I don't mind people calling me out on my bullshit. There's not much for you to call me out on, that's the point.

Is your vote on me because my reasoning is incorrect, or because it feels artificial?

[LuckyLuciano]

First off, I didn't vote you, I just said you were scum without context in 228. Second, if I gain no information from a reaction test, that does mean the reaction test isn't worth trying. However, I do think your reaction is very curious. Are you claiming that you reacted by voting me as a reaction test to see if I would vote you back? Further, why do you care if somebody thinks you are scum?

I did wrote "ignore the vote" in the previous post, my bad.

What, no? I did because if you make such a reaction test, as I pointed out in a previous post in 2/4 scenarios you gain no information and in the other 2/4 scenarios you gain information which can be easily misinterpreted if you're Town and used as a straight up reason for a vote if you're scum. All in all, I see more value in the reaction test from a scum POV.

It's not that you think I'm scum, it's that you're making a push on me with questionable reasoning.

Is it questionable to think that a player might be scum because they take a course of action that contradicts how they claimed to play the game as town in the past? I understand that you are claiming you have changed your views on early wagons, but do you really believe that finding such a change in behavior suspicious is questionable?

[LuckyLuciano]

"Why? How does not answering this question benefit the town?"

How does it do? And quite frankly, it is such a broad question that I don't know what answer you expect.

I expect a two-part answer. First, how do you define town cred? Second, why is it important? Generally if you don't know why answering a question would help the town, but there isn't reason for it to harm the town, you should answer the question. If it is not harmful to the town to take a course of action, then the result must either be zero sum or net-positive.

"We only discovered recently that an extension was being granted. At what point were you planning to advocate a no lynch? In particular, when Titus moved their vote to Cheeky, putting her at L-1, in 307, you questioned the motive. When she stated it was due to the deadline, why did you not begin advocating a no lynch?"

Should've been more clear, I meant NL on my part, as in, me not voting, not no lynching in general.

What's the point of advocating a no lynch if you are just going to watch a lynch happen in front of you that you do not necessarily agree with?

"Is your vote on me because my reasoning is incorrect, or because it feels artificial?"

The former. What do you mean by artificial?

Why is being incorrect scum? Have you ever been wrong as town before?

When I use the word artificial - or fabricated - to discuss the detail's of a player's action, I mean to call into question whether a town player would naturally find reason to take that course of action. Often times when scum do things they have to contrive a reason for doing so. So when I ask if you find my push on you to be artificial, I am asking if you believe a town player might naturally make that push for the reasons in which I decided to do so, or if only a scum player would make that push on you. Consider this, if the majority of the town is town-reading you, why would I start a last minute push against you as scum instead of just night-killing you? Why does it make sense for scum!Lucky to start a random push on you when it would require convincing so many people that they are wrong about you? Short of scum!Cheeky + scum!Lucky it makes more sense for scum!Lucky to not stir up discussion and just let town!Cheeky get lynched, no? (Yes, I know this is mad WIFOM, but I consider WIFOM scenarios a lot when I play as my reads are made by looking at motivations).

[LuckyLuciano]

Is it questionable to think that a player might be scum because they take a course of action that contradicts how they claimed to play the game as town in the past? I understand that you are claiming you have changed your views on early wagons, but do you really believe that finding such a change in behavior suspicious is questionable?

Given the fact that said player does not have a defined style of play and you are judging off of two games alone, yes.

So are you claiming that reading someone as scum without absolutely certainty is questionable? What degree of certainty is required for a scum-read to be reasonable?

[LuckyLuciano]

In addition, why is it that my push on TSE was not reason enough for you to vote me, Phoenix? By the reasoning you are providing now, my push against him should be equally as questionable as my push against you. It seems that the only difference between the two, to be frank, is that one of them accuses you of being scum, and the other does not.

[LuckyLuciano]

"What's the point of advocating a no lynch if you are just going to watch a lynch happen in front of you that you do not necessarily agree with?"

Can you stop saying I'm advocating for a NL? If there's a lynch happening that I don't agree with and I can't convince the people on the wagon that there's about to be a mislynch or that there's a better lynch alternative, what am I supposed to do?

I must have missed it, can you show me where in this DP you ever tried to convince somebody that there was either (A) a better lynch alternative than Cheeky, or (B) that a no lynch would be better than lynching Cheeky. You literally watched the wagon build up and now you are saying that all you could do to stop it is /shrug and throw your hands in the air.

"Why is being incorrect scum? Have you ever been wrong as town before?"

It isn't necessarily. When you base your push solely on things that are incorrect, though, I think a line should be drawn.

It is incorrect that your play as town in another game contradicts your play as town in this game? By stating that you have changed your style are you not conceding that your current play contradicts your former play?

"So are you claiming that reading someone as scum without absolutely certainty is questionable? What degree of certainty is required for a scum-read to be reasonable?"

Reading someone as scum should be justified.

Which means what, exactly?

"In addition, why is it that my push on TSE was not reason enough for you to vote me, Phoenix? By the reasoning you are providing now, my push against him should be equally as questionable as my push against you. It seems that the only difference between the two, to be frank, is that one of them accuses you of being scum, and the other does not."

Cause I reread your case on TSE only when I already had voted you as I pointed out in 304.

So you only found my case against TSE questionable after I said you are scum? Interesting. I really am enjoying this exchange. You know that shovel I gave you a few hours ago when this conversation started? I would appreciate it if you could return it to me for future use after you are lynched.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Phoenix, at this point I'm really just waiting for others to chime in. I feel that I've made my point. The one thing you have going for you is not hammering Cheeky when you had the chance, but that's partially off-set by what could be scum!Phoenix trying to get a good reason to hammer from town!Titus. Either way I've convinced by the extent to which you find the mere possibility of somebody viewing you as scum repulsive that your play this game is either bad!town or !scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Tapiocaphobe

Because how am I supposed to shorten that. Tapio?

I mean I don't really have any reactions other than 'it's weird titus started my wagon then immediately left it' but i'm getting a nullread from that

I don't like you answering a question for Titus. I don't like how it's weird but its a null read.

yeah, there were better ways for her to leave the wagon if she wanted to avoid suspicion on me

Why should Titus be concerned with avoiding suspicion on YOU?

the way TSE approached my post screamed townie to me + I was already disliking that mafioso post when they pushed it
lunar's mafioso post and how they approached the idea of s/s; i think after their last two posts they're pretty solidly null for me though, maybe a little itsy bitsy townie
these are very early reads so they'll probably change but this is where my head is at

You disliked the "mafioso" post but not enough to move your RVS vote.

what were people saying that's the same besides 'it's null'?
only cheeky mentioned the gut ping thing
I would like phi to come and speak, which is why I'm still voting for them, but I think most people would rather focus on the actual content that's been generated
like, I see wym with that phi post, but it's one rvs post, it's not exactly a lot to look

at

I think you are leaving your vote on Phi as a backdoor to voting with Titus

this is a weird basis to vote titus on

Buddying up to Titus

liking this post

More buddying up to Titus

VOTE: tap

I mean I don't really have any reactions other than 'it's weird titus started my wagon then immediately left it' but i'm getting a nullread from that

I don't like you answering a question for Titus. I don't like how it's weird but its a null read.

this is a weird basis to vote titus on

Buddying up to Titus

liking this post

More buddying up to Titus

VOTE: tap

With the first quote I can see how this can be seen as buddying, it does look like Tapio defending her in a way.

As for the next two, however, I don't think not liking a vote against someone or liking someone's post equals buddying (necessarily).

Spoiler:

QQ is likely some type of troll and I'm questioning whether ph0enix's reaction to them is genuine

QQ is likely some type of troll and I'm questioning whether ph0enix's reaction to them is genuine

Interpret my reaction however you want, I don't want to leave his nonsense unaddressed, troll or not.

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

tapioca and phoenix would be my guess for scum

everybody else is ???

Spoiler:

Can the people who have provided reads/theories for scumteams and haven't explained the reasoning behind them do so :/

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

I think that's all. Also, I don't like how Karnage called out TSE in 98 for not providing reasoning behind his theory, but later he posts his townleans without us knowing why he feels this way about the particular people he's leaning town on.

I really like these two posts from Titus. They show a strong town mindset imo. Granted they could be faked which is why I only lean town for now.

The discussion around ne and my vote change is awkward and stilted. A few slots say the same thing and get nowhere but NAI, essentially repeoting what came before.

What's abcent is more telling. Everyone wants to know why my gut was strong enough, yet no one looked at Phi's behavior. It's net enough to make a strong case out of, but it's still interesting. Phil comes across artificial and fake in the opeming sequence.

Mod: I voted Phi not Phoenix.

Fixed, thank you --P

No. It's farfetched to lock him as scum based off of that. To feel the ignorance of the wagon and discussion of food is an artificial distraction is not. Scum love to distract. It's a good place to start none the less. Plus, the sooner we escape RVS the better.

Re: 98 - that was "calling out" Titus, not TSE. I dont think saying I called them out is a fair description though. It was meant to be kinda snarky to just point out that without reasoning I don't think the vote should be taken too seriously. Also, I think there's a difference between voting somebody without saying why and having a town lean on somebody without saying why.

Re: 98 - that was "calling out" Titus, not TSE. I dont think saying I called them out is a fair description though. It was meant to be kinda snarky to just point out that without reasoning I don't think the vote should be taken too seriously. Also, I think there's a difference between voting somebody without saying why and having a town lean on somebody without saying why.

Oh yes, my bad. There is a difference, yes, but given that we are currently still early in the game and are working with very limited information, I still believe that providing reasoning behind a townlean could be helpful. Perhaps there's something we've overlooked about this particular player that you have now shed light on, which itself may help us determine his/her alignment.

That’s fair

At this point I'm only townreading Phoneix and Tap. We need more wagons or something.

I went back and looked at ph0enix's ISO and I probably judged him too harshly for his reaction to QQ.

What are you seeing from tap that makes him a town read?

I'm just dropping this here for later use. The one thing I do want to point out as striking me as suspicious - among other things - is the following in conjunction:

Karnage says Phoenix is scum without giving a reason,

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

tapioca and phoenix would be my guess for scum

everybody else is ???

Phoenix has been called scum three times. His reactions to QQ and I were OMGUS and votes. He never addressed Karnage calling him scum. His case against me should apply to Karnage as well. A few posts later, Phoenix literally QUOTES the above post and ignores being read as a scum team while asking other players to explain their buddy reads,

Can the people who have provided reads/theories for scumteams and haven't explained the reasoning behind them do so :/

That would be:

Theory, Karnage Cheeky scumteam

I don’t think Cheeky is but I do think Karnage could be.

I'm leaning town on Titus and TSE atm

I think that's all. Also, I don't like how Karnage called out TSE in 98 for not providing reasoning behind his theory, but later he posts his townleans without us knowing why he feels this way about the particular people he's leaning town on.

The hypocrisy of trying to lynch two players for thinking he's scum and at the same time erasing somebody calling you scum as part of a buddy read

in a post that you made for the purpose of questioning the buddy reads that have been made so far

is truly impressive.

Finally, Karnage just randomly rereads Phoenix's iso and decides he's not scum after all, again without reasoning, immediately after Cheeky townreads Phoenix,

At this point I'm only townreading Phoneix and Tap. We need more wagons or something.

I went back and looked at ph0enix's ISO and I probably judged him too harshly for his reaction to QQ.

What are you seeing from tap that makes him a town read?

What is everyone's thoughts on Karnage + Phoenix as SvS?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Titus, what do you think about Karnage + Phoenix as scum?

[LuckyLuciano]

How am I rewarded for making the game less readable?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Titus, in 216 you asked me to expand upon my townread on Cheeky. In 221 I took the time to ISO every post Cheeky had made up to that point. You never talked about this post. What are your thoughts?

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: Karnage

[LuckyLuciano]

Checking in. Like many others, I've lost motivation for this DP, it's gone on for nearly two weeks. I'm just ready for the game to move on (I come from a site with 72 hour dayphases). Feel free to ask me questions while I'm here.

[LuckyLuciano]

karnage isn't scum, she claimed vt

How does that make someone not scum? If they were mafia do you expect them to claim mafia goon?

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't like they're [p]112[/p] though
he intentionally changed letters around in the spoiler
n o c m maybe that's code for no comment, maybe he gave up early on

It's code for no claim. I saw it when he made the post but in this setup, and somebody more experienced can correct me if I'm wrong as it's a new one for me, I expect mafia will always claim vanilla except under extremely specific circumstances.

[LuckyLuciano]

Hey guys. Been a bit preoccupied lately as I work in the service industry and live in an area recently exposed to COVID-19. I'll be catching up on the game later today.

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL, to me you seem like an analytical player (based on your D1), what do you make of the D1 votes? Everyone else can chime in as well. I have some thoughts on my own, but I'm interested in what you guys think before I share them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrXIQQ8PeRs

[LuckyLuciano]

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

If LL and Phoenix were scummy for the same reason and the wagons were town motivated, I'd expect LL to get heat not Karnage.

I've looked a bit at the D1 votes, but I don't dig too deep into them under we have at least 2 DPs of votes to look at. What do you think of 139 and 140, especially with consideration to timestamps?

[LuckyLuciano]

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

If LL and Phoenix were scummy for the same reason and the wagons were town motivated, I'd expect LL to get heat not Karnage.

One player had mentioned at the time that they would policy lynch either Phoenix or myself, whom were both listed as that player's town reads. I made a case against Phoenix. Could you elaborate what you mean when you say that Phoenix and I were scummy for the same reason?

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL, to me you seem like an analytical player (based on your D1), what do you make of the D1 votes? Everyone else can chime in as well. I have some thoughts on my own, but I'm interested in what you guys think before I share them.

I've looked a bit at the D1 votes, but I don't dig too deep into them under we have at least 2 DPs of votes to look at. What do you think of 139 and 140, especially with consideration to timestamps?

EBWOP.

[LuckyLuciano]

I am currently looking at the wagon against Cheeky. In 303 Titus put Cheeky at L-1. Phoenix and myself were the only players not on the wagon to post between then and 320 when TSE unvoted Cheeky. If town!cheeky, would scum!TSE unvote here?

In 307 Titus states that her vote moved from Karnage to Cheeky due to deadline concerns. In 314 Plotinus announces there will be an extension when a replacement for tapioca is found, alleviating deadline concerns. Titus then failed to post either after work on a weeknight or before work the following weekday. This is only the second time in the two weeks this game has been going on where this has happened. The prior was during a lull just before I replaced in where the only posts were players prodging and expressing disinterest in the game. I know life happens out of the game, this is just food for thought. I will say, however, that I think TSE and Titus don't make sense as a scumteam, but I feel there is at least one scum between them.

[LuckyLuciano]

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

If LL and Phoenix were scummy for the same reason and the wagons were town motivated, I'd expect LL to get heat not Karnage.

I've looked a bit at the D1 votes, but I don't dig too deep into them under we have at least 2 DPs of votes to look at. What do you think of 139 and 140, especially with consideration to timestamps?

@Wooper, I may have missed it, but what do you think of Homura?

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't know why I quoted myself instead of pressing reply. Sorry, I'm a bit under the weather atm.

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't know why I quoted myself instead of pressing reply. Sorry, I'm a bit under the weather atm.

make sure you get back on top of the weather soon!!
i'll use rain dance : ]

also i hope you aren't at risk of COVID, stay safe.

I feel the same about Homura. Prior to replacing in myself, my strongest town reads as an observer were QQ (Crush) and Cheeky (You). The QQ slot is probably my strongest townread in the game. That leaves Titus, Non, and CJN (TSE). We have one mislynch left. Assuming we lynch one of the three aforementioned players this DP, which flip do you believe reveals the most information?

homura is one of my strongest townreads

Maybe. I live in an exposed area and am getting sick. I'm not going in to work until I am better though. It's doubtful I have COVID, as this time every year, literally within the same 2-3 week time frame in March, my allergies flare up really badly and I get sick in all the same ways I am now.

[LuckyLuciano]

Hi everyone. I am Titus, one of the three SEs this game. There's three of us, so you see three different ways of playing. If you're trying to find scum, you're doing it right. All of us only get better with practice.

The first part of the game is RVS. We randomly vote each other until someone has a serious read somewhere. We then just play.

I'll interrupt in SE voice again when a wagon gets going

.

~~~~

VOTE: tap

The bolded statement has been bothering me all game. Literally, the following post put Tapi at 3/5. In the span of

one post

for a wagon to get going. Then instead of interrupting in SE voice, Titus takes the first possible opportunity to disrupt the wagon on the basis of "gut" in 20.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm looking back at Karnage's ISO now that we know he is town. He immediately called out Tapi and Titus both as scum in 64.

When Tapi responds to this post in 76 he removes the parts of the quote where Karnage accuses him of buddying Titus.

Titus' first post after Karnage's entrance is in 72 where she seems to be asking other players to start pressing against Karnage for her. In the interim QQ posts what seems to be nonsense, giving Titus room to make a fluff post in 83 and then after enough time has passed to avoid it looking like OMGUS, Titus votes Karnage in 94. Keep in mind, Titus claims that Karnage is scum with Cheeky, the other player whom immediately began to suspect her of being scum.

I'm still really bothered by the fact that in 220 Titus asked for me to elaborate my townread on Cheeky, which I did in 221 by ISOing every single Cheeky post thus far. When I later asked Titus about this she responded in 424, effectively dismissing the entire analysis as being flawed because early aggression isn't a sign of being town even though she earlier claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her

for her early aggression

.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

[LuckyLuciano]

I think it's either Tapi/Non + Titus or TSE/CJN + Cheeky/Wooper.

[LuckyLuciano]

TSE + Cheeky interactions would require far more complex mafia strategy that I'm willing to buy, however. Let's drop a VOTE: Titus for now.

[LuckyLuciano]

claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her for her early aggression.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

Using this to follow up.

First, I didn't like you because you liked me or because of the early aggression. I am bothered by you scumreading both TSE and me. My reexamination over the night phase has TSE at greater than 75% town. Putting us in a dichotomy is bad. Second, you do knowing one of your other scumreads, nom, will capitalize.

I am leaning against Cheeky now Whooper being scum. I am not 100% certain. The amount of backtracking wooper did bought him some time with me, but maybe I am a sucker for those who agree with me.

Suppose TSE and I are both town, what happens to your reads?

VOTE: Non

Is your vote against Non for the reasons I mentioned in my post, or do you have something to add?

And if you and TSE are both town, and we lynch both of you, then given we have only 1 mislynch left we lose. Why does it matter what happens to my reads at that point?

[LuckyLuciano]

claimed to like my entrance when the largest portion of it was townreading her for her early aggression.

Non's iso bothers me. All I really gather from it is (A) they want to lynch Cheeky without reason, (B) they are fine with just hammering, also without reason, and (C) they are obsessed with providing bipolar reads of Titus that will inevitably change directions faster than a ping pong ball.

Using this to follow up.

First, I didn't like you because you liked me or because of the early aggression. I am bothered by you scumreading both TSE and me. My reexamination over the night phase has TSE at greater than 75% town. Putting us in a dichotomy is bad.

Second, you do knowing one of your other scumreads, nom, will capitalize.

I am leaning against Cheeky now Whooper being scum. I am not 100% certain. The amount of backtracking wooper did bought him some time with me, but maybe I am a sucker for those who agree with me.

Suppose TSE and I are both town, what happens to your reads?

VOTE: Non

Can you explain what you mean by the bolded statement?

[LuckyLuciano]

But I'm saying that Titus!Scum = Nom!Scum. How would that allow Nom!Scum to capitalize by voting you?

[LuckyLuciano]

Official Vote Count 2.03

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Titus

(1): Wooper

Not Voting

(6): ceejayvinoya, Crush, Homura, LuckyLuciano, Non lmh, Titus

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-20 12:15:00).

Mod notes:

Seeking replacement for Non lmh[/area]

I voted Titus.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm waiting for (A) crush to post, and (B) Titus to unvote Nom / Menalque with some random gut ping that outweighs her prior reasons for voting Nom.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Titus, who would you like to lynch today?

[LuckyLuciano]

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

[LuckyLuciano]

I think cheeky is intensely scummy as of page 6

What in particular is scummy to you?

[LuckyLuciano]

I think cheeky is intensely scummy as of page 6

What in particular is scummy to you?

She feels very directionless and uncomfortable. There’s also the sense that she cares a lot about how she’s perceived here and is being a lot more measured. When I’ve seen her as town she’s been much more abrasive and demanding, and this is very clearly different to that. Neither is totally condemning on its own, but I think the two together are

bad

What about early-game town play

isn't

directionless? Wouldn't mafia be more likely to act with clear direction early on as they actually have info to guide their play?

Whats your take on that slot?

About as obvtown as obvtown gets.

Also why do you think Titus is scummy?

I find her play opportunistic. I think her EOD gameplan for DP1 wasn't pro-town at all. I can't find a reason why town!scum would help build the wagon on Tapi, claim that they will intervene in SE voice once a wagon starts, and then disrupt the wagon without talking in SE voice immediately after. I don't like the Tapi/Titus interactions. I don't like how Titus has only taken action this game against players who scumread her. I don't like how the moment Karnage declared that he thought Tapi/Titus were a scumteam that they both immediately pounced on him and built the foundation for his eventual lynch.

[LuckyLuciano]

No, actually. Mafia I think struggle to have direction especially in the very early game because they have the pieces to the puzzle already and so are trying to create the illusion of looking for more information. Town ask questions that are designed to give them more information and to sort. Scum ask questions about irrelevant things or questions they think they should ask. I think cheeky’s questions aren’t on things she would necessarily care about as town and they’re asked in a way that makes me think she is trying to avoid undue attention/to play nice. Generally scum are much more motivated to do that

I’m only about 250 posts I but so far I don’t see what you’re talking about re:Titus, but could be because I’m not there yet. So you think karnage had the scumteam nailed and they combined pushed him to eliminate him? Why not NK him in that circumstance?

Karnage was pretty clearly a mislynch target because of his style of play. It would be not only easier to push a mislynch on him than someone like Phoenix or myself, meaning the lynch on him and NK on Phoenix were both more optimal uses of mafia resources than vice versa, but I also think NKing Karnage NP1 after he called out the scumteam instantly would come under scrutiny in the late-game. In other words, it would have been difficult to NK him without causing people to ask, "Why him?"

[LuckyLuciano]

Insofar as you’re able to I’d like you to comment on what I’m producing here in real time LL

I can. I'm not sure what you currently want me to respond to, however.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

What do you think of homura?

In fact can you give me a full readslist?

Do you agree that crush and ceejay are both obvtown slots?

I've already posted all this info, you just haven't gotten to it yet. Crush is obvtown. I don't agree that CJN is. I think scum is either Titus + You or Ceejay + Wooper. I think Ceejay + Wooper would have required a level of coordination from TSE + Cheeky that I just don't buy, therefore I think scum is Titus + You. I think that You and Titus want to mislynch Wooper today and then mislynch me next DP. I think Titus' instantaneous vote on your slot (non) when I called out Titus + Non scumteam was fake and only in place because non was getting replaced and she could unvote when you came into the game. I think in the case where it's beneficial to bus your slot she is ready to because she thinks leading a bus will defer me from looking at her for a DP, buying her time for a mislynch, and then she will lead a mislynch against me on the final DP. Her interactions with me all game scream that she's pocketing me as the LYLO mislynch target.

[LuckyLuciano]

My associative reads came DP2. DP1 I lead wagons on two players who I thought were either bad!town or !scum, because I don't wagon players who produce quality content on DP1 unless they straight scum-slip. Plus, phoenix claimed PR. I think town!Wooper is the player most in-sync with me atm, and the mafia knows I know who dies this NP, and why they die this NP. Looking at the players who will remain next DP, I'm their best mislynch target for the game-winning push. I think Titus' play interactions with me are setting her up to go from townreading me to saying later on that she thought my play was TBTBAW but was wrong.

[LuckyLuciano]

Also, what do you mean by “pocketing me as the final mislynch target”

We have 7 players. 5 town, 2 mafia. Mafia needs 2 mislynches to win. You don't NK your mislynch targets, because you cannot mislynch locktown players (to reiterate why Karnage was the lynch push despite accurate reads, and Phoenix was the NK). DP1 my pushes were on a town and an unflipped who you are reading as obvtown, and my EOD vote was on a mislynch. You have called Homura out for scumreading 3 town, but haven't called me out on the same thing. Titus has been dismissing my content or straight up ignoring parts of what I post to avoid meaningful interactions. If I'm mafia!Titus + mafia!Menalque, I know that the Lucky slot was over-read as town DP1 for very little reason and that if town!Wooper dies today, and the obv NK target dies tonight, that sets the Lucky slot up for a mislynch. I'm also thinking ahead to where if I'm scum!Titus it's not bad to bus scum!non and would be FTTW because I think I can lead the Lucky slot to a ML next DP and then ML Lucky at LYLO. This analysis is all wasted if Titus is actually a shit mafia player, which I don't think she is.

[LuckyLuciano]

Also, what do you mean by “pocketing me as the final mislynch target”

We have 7 players. 5 town, 2 mafia. Mafia needs 2 mislynches to win. You don't NK your mislynch targets, because you cannot mislynch locktown players (to reiterate why Karnage was the lynch push despite accurate reads, and Phoenix was the NK). DP1 my pushes were on a town and an unflipped who you are reading as obvtown, and my EOD vote was on a mislynch. You have called Homura out for scumreading 3 town, but haven't called me out on the same thing. Titus has been dismissing my content or straight up ignoring parts of what I post to avoid meaningful interactions. If I'm mafia!Titus + mafia!Menalque, I know that the Lucky slot was over-read as town DP1 for very little reason and that if town!Wooper dies today, and the obv NK target dies tonight, that sets the Lucky slot up for a mislynch.

I'm also thinking ahead to where if I'm scum!Titus it's not bad to bus scum!non and would be FTTW because I think I can lead the Lucky slot to a ML next DP

and then ML Lucky at LYLO. This analysis is all wasted if Titus is actually a shit mafia player, which I don't think she is.

To expand upon the bolded, if I'm scum!Titus I hold this statement to be true because Lucky declared scum!Titus + scum!Non, and if I lead the lynch on scum!Non then obviously Lucky thinks he was wrong on his read and sheeps me to a mislynch the following DP. This, of course, is the plan B than only needs to be executed if I don't find an easly way to unvote scum!Menalque as he replaces scum!Non. That's why I locked Titus' actions in 671.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you mean by FTTW?

First to the wagon.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you mean by FTTW?

First to the wagon.

What does this mean

The first person on the wagon of a scum player typically gets more towncred than other players on the wagon. I think scum!Titus being the first to vote scum!Non has a lot of strategic value.

Are you from Town of Salem by any chance?

No.

If wooper is lynched today and flips town, which I doubt but possible, then surely you being lynched D3 is much less likely than you managing to get one of me/titus lynched given that I at the very least would have just hard pushed a mislynch

So I don’t really think your paranoia about being setup as the game losing mislynch makes sense, esp given that, again, you don’t seem to be in any real danger of being mislynched and certainly not before my rep in

That really depends on how other players decide to interact with the ongoing discussions this DP. The only votes on Titus ATM are Wooper and myself. We haven't had other players weigh in. With Wooper gone, I'm the only remaining player to actively be pushing Titus. Oftentimes town lose at LYLO simply because the remaining town players don't care enough to put forth the effort required to solve the game. In my experience with 2 active scum, 1 active town, and 2 inactive town remaining, the active scum win because they only need to convince 1 inactive town whereas the active town has to convince 2 inactive town.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you mean by equity?

[LuckyLuciano]

I

think

homura is town but it’s still solidly uncertain. She has equity with LL at the least

Scum equity is just a site term for how likely someone is to be scum, when used in the form of “X has scum equity with Y” it’s just saying that I can see their play coming from partners

I really really think it’s exactly (wooper, LL)

So you think scum is either (LL, Homura) or (LL, Wooper), and town have one mislynch left. Instead of lynching the person you are more certain is scum, you're rather lynch one of the other players. It's almost like I called out you and Titus going for a lynch!Wooper, NK!playerX, lynch!LL strategy before you even started posting.

[LuckyLuciano]

Man ducky if I’m right and you are scum you must be pissed that I repped into this slot hey

If I were scum, yeah I would be. I hate replacements and if you were familiar with my play offsite then you would know that if you were right, and if I was finally scumread by a rep in a game with 100% turnover before beginning of DP2, then I would have quit by now. My analysis of Titus should show you that I take the game seriously and make long-term plans as mafia, which are turned on their head instantaneously by replacements. The fact that I still care about this game would be a townread if you knew me, but meh, new site new meta.

[LuckyLuciano]

Ask me for the winning lotto numbers.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

I never said he could.

That's the point.

You also never said he couldn't, wheras you said Wooper couldn't.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

I mean you’re gonna have to be a little patient with me as I may be driving back to the Uk from France today but it’s my intention to obvtown myself quite soon

I should mention that you’re probably my top pick for scum based on cheeky btw wooper, so I’m also expecting to see a lot of townposting in your ISO when I get to there

been vomiting town at the thread as hard as i can

tbh i think cheeky here was about as obvtown as cheeky gets lmao

It's impossible to vomit town. You claiming that's what you're going for is really irking me but it's honest and probably shouldn't.

What is the difference between 'vomiting town' and 'obvtowning oneself'?

The words used. Why ask this though?

I'm wondering why Menal can obvtown himself without you critizicing it but Wooper can't vomit town. You are inconsistent, either on purpose or through oversight.

I never said he could.

That's the point.

You also never said he couldn't, wheras you said Wooper couldn't.

This is semantic garbage. Neither can.

VOTE: LL

Exactly, neither can. I called you out on shutting down one and not the other.

You seem to agree both should have been shot down.

Yet me calling you out on your own cognitive dissonance earns me a vote? Can the OMGUS be any stronger?

[LuckyLuciano]

So with one mislynch remaining for the town you place your vote on me for... disagreeing with you? If you are town, you play with with far too much emotion.

[LuckyLuciano]

I don't think Melanque should have been shot down, but I don't believe a slot can be obvtown by merely posting.

The cognitive dissonance rings so loud I'm getting tinnitus.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm not doing anything until we get input from Crush, CJN, and Homura.

[LuckyLuciano]

That wasn't meant as combative. I just think their input is valuable. I have a feeling the EOD play for this DP will be very straightforward.

[LuckyLuciano]

I am not getting lynched this phase.
End of discussion.

I call and raise you.

I'm not getting lynched today.

If you persist

, you will be lynched.

Care to elaborate?

[LuckyLuciano]

I would really like it if you did elaborate. Explain it like I'm five.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you want him to say, that his vote is staying on you? Do you want him to unvote because you threatened him?

[LuckyLuciano]

@LL I'm curious on where you got your crush obvtown read

I'd rather wait for him to post to elaborate on this.

[LuckyLuciano]

Although, there is a course of action that could occur this DP which nullifies my obvtown read on Crush, and would make me very upset with QQ.

[LuckyLuciano]

Although, there is a course of action that could occur this DP which nullifies my obvtown read on Crush, and would make me very upset with QQ.

@Titus, could you remind me where you went from scum to locktown on the TSE slot?

[LuckyLuciano]

It more and more sounds like QQ was straight up trolling while he was in this game and that's legitimately frustrating.

[LuckyLuciano]

@CJN, why Titus?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Anyone who has played with Non before, is he capable of the observation made in 553, or would that had to have been fed to him by a scum buddy?

[LuckyLuciano]

Be more specific? What about Titus?

Assume I am actually being as specific as possible when I ask, "Why Titus?" If it means something to you, great. If you still don't know what I mean, then it's probably a pointless question anyway.

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: menalque

i want this towncasing titus asap

I'm not sure what this statement means.

[LuckyLuciano]

The gang's all here, I'm excited!

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Titus. I'm not convinced at all that Titus is town, but I am more inclined to lynch Mena this DP based upon Non's play last DP, especially 553 and the hammer despite immediately claiming Karnage was town upon entering the game. If scum!Titus, then scum!Mena. scum!Mena does not necessarily lead to scum!Titus, however. I'm going to wait for everyone to get their thoughts out now that they are here before dropping a vote on Mena, however. In addition, I've dropped my obvtown read on Crush, due to reasons that have nothing to do with him.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Titus, do you find that as town you OMGUS frequently?

[LuckyLuciano]

Feel free.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you think about the QQ/Crush slot?

[LuckyLuciano]

I understand what TSE was doing in 30 and 35 now.

[LuckyLuciano]

LuckyLuciano
ceejayvinoya

Homura
Crush
Titus (SE)
Wooper

Menalque

Colored reads are what I feel certain of right now.

[LuckyLuciano]

I would also like to point to 189 where Tapi[Non/Menal] seemed to know that Cheeky[Wooper] would flip green.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Titus. I'm not convinced at all that Titus is town, but I am more inclined to lynch Mena this DP based upon Non's play last DP, especially 553 and the hammer despite immediately claiming Karnage was town upon entering the game. If scum!Titus, then scum!Mena. scum!Mena does not necessarily lead to scum!Titus, however. I'm going to wait for everyone to get their thoughts out now that they are here before dropping a vote on Mena, however.

In addition, I've dropped my obvtown read on Crush, due to reasons that have nothing to do with him.

I don't feel like I did anything to deserve that in the first place, so I don't mind.

NGL, realizing that I gave QQ too much credit for actually trying and that he actually was just a troll drained my WIM pretty quickly, as I had been operating this whole game on the assumption that he wanted to win. Luckily everyone got on and started posting right around the time that I came to this realization, because it made me feel re-energized.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Crush, I'm not entirely sure. I'm rather convinced that the Menal slot is scum, and Tapi's last post leads me to believe that scum!Tapi = town!Cheeky. I don't know that town!Tapi necessarily means scum!Cheeky.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Everyone, do we feel that QQ's push on Phoenix was genuine, or artificial? In other words, is it possible his push for a modkill and/or policy lynch on Phoenix was scum-motivated?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Everyone: Between Titus, Crush, Homura, and Wooper, who is most town, and why? Why is most scum, and why? I would like if everyone answered.

[LuckyLuciano]

Can we stop calling Wooper's avatar cute? That pokemon is literally Satan's child.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Crush, does scum!TSE unvote Cheeky at L-1 for any reason other than Cheeky also being scum? In other words, do you think scum!TSE always = scum!Cheeky, or is scum!TSE possible with town!Cheeky?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Homura, what's your town block looking like atm?

[LuckyLuciano]

@Crush, are you entirely caught up?

[LuckyLuciano]

Outside of your desire to sort TSE/CJN, what do you believe should be sorted this DP?

[LuckyLuciano]

So... Are we just waiting for Menal to post before we lynch him?

[LuckyLuciano]

It feels that everyone has meaningfully contributed to the DP and we are mostly going to be waiting for Menalque and Titus as they deal with IRL. Life > mafia and I don't want them to feel rushed if it takes them a day or two to get things settled. Even though we have nearly 3 days left, I wouldn't mind (A) extending the DP by 24 hours preemptively in order to preserve the quality of gameplay and, (B) pausing prod timers until 48 hours remain in the DP so that people do not feel obligated to force content halfheartedly while things are getting situated IRL.

[LuckyLuciano]

Do you think a week might be too long and cause people to lose interest? The deadline currently ends Friday, what if we extend it through the weekend? Feel free to say no, you know your situation better than me.

[LuckyLuciano]

+1 Sunday

[LuckyLuciano]

like i can exactly see that being talked about in the scum pt
that is why he would remember a random ass post like that
but the fact he came here pointing it out but pretending not to have any thoughts about it?

ugh i just realised i'm fighting you about your own slot's alignment
i think it's slimy that he pointed it out but pretended not to have any thoughts about it
i think his actual *thoughts* r what u save for the scum pt, not noticing it in the first place

I mean why does he comment like that

like why bring up very specifically what the change is but not the fact that it spells out mason

112

Let's bring up very specifically what the change is, and the fact that it spells out "n o c m", or no claim. Where drugs did you take before reading that to see mason?

[LuckyLuciano]

there's like a Very Big reason why we explicitly should NOT out the tpr
just for the record i'm probably the best tpr hunter in this list
i normally advocate for massclaim d2-sometimes d3 depending on Things
and i've made a very conscious decision to push massclaim to d3-d4

if you've caught up and paid attention to the way people are interacting you'd probably have worked something out

Wooper, you're really shorting your utility here

What do you mean by this?

[LuckyLuciano]

Why would my confidence be shaken? I don't care if I end up being wrong. I find things to focus in on, I take them to their extreme, and I see what happens. That's my style. I don't plan on solving the game on my own. This is a team game, the input of other players is valuable. I don't find treading around carefully and withholding my thoughts because I might be wrong to be conducive to winning. I'd rather make cases and possibly push people a bit past their comfort zone and let other people be the judge of the interaction than try and be the judge jury and executioner all on my own.

[LuckyLuciano]

That might be the case for some people, but I don't believe it should be. If you believe in a point somebody is making, them changing their mind - absent reason for them to change their mind that you find persuasive as well - you should still believe in the point that was made.

[LuckyLuciano]

I still think it can be telling, however, when people drop a case I push just because I drop it. Is a player trying to find scum, or are they just sheeping me?

[LuckyLuciano]

That depends on the player. Because of the way I take my reads to their extreme and see where it goes, if I just casually scumread someone without much effort, I doubt people would pay it much of a glance. Some players are very subtle with their analysis and can push a read without showing any signs of high or low confidence.

What does this convo help you with?

[LuckyLuciano]

A better way of understanding my pushes is that I don't really think about whether my reads are right or wrong. Like I said, I take things that stand out to me and stretch them as far as I can within reason. This gives the town, as a collective, something to talk about and other players will tell me if I'm right or wrong, and give hints to their own alignment in doing so. I play this as a team game.

[LuckyLuciano]

Cool, have you heard what you need to from Mena?

[LuckyLuciano]

Tbh, I need to go back and reread it. I kinda just skimmed it and quoted the part that jumped out to me. 983. I'm interested in Menalque's response to this. Either I'm blind or he's blatantly lying and hoping people don't fact check.

[LuckyLuciano]

As much as I sit interested in what everyone has to say, I still can't get over the idea that it's Menal + Titus.

[LuckyLuciano]

Wooper going from hard-scum to hard-town on Titus is odd to me, however.

[LuckyLuciano]

Yeah. Although, 514 is more interesting depending on sequence of events, I'm going to go check something in Wooper's ISO.

[LuckyLuciano]

Nevermind, that was way earlier in the game than I remembered.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm contemplating a mass claim. 4 players are currently in on a certain soft-claim. There are 7 players alive. The odds of both mafia being in the group of 3 players who are not in-the-know is unlikely. If even one mafia knows what's going on with the soft claim, then it's net-positive to put all of the cards on the table for the town.

[LuckyLuciano]

Nope. Non's post caught Karnage's breadcrumb of "no claim". I don't know where Mena got mason from. The most interesting point about Non's post if, based on my limited exposure to him, I doubt he would have caught that. I think it's more likely Titus fed it to him.

[LuckyLuciano]

I still find 635 to be the fakest distancing attempt I have seen in my life. Titus voted Non less than an hour before his prod expired and would be replaced. This is the easiest SvS vote anyone could ever be faced with. Start the wagon against a scum buddy who is literally both being FOS'd

and

being replaced as you place the vote, then unvote them for no reason once they are replaced, a la 742.

776 through 784 still needs to be explained. Later on instead of elaborating she says that she still can't explain it because, low and behold, instead of needing Wooper locked down she needs Menalque locked down. 843.

788 is literally Titus telling CJN to get in her pocket.

Don't get me wrong, even though I am pretty sold on the scumteam being Titus + Menal, I want to lynch Menal first because I think the Menal flip provides more info. If Menal is scum, Titus is always scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

Where's the O being replaced?

[LuckyLuciano]

Nope. Non's post caught Karnage's breadcrumb of "no claim". I don't know where Mena got mason from. The most interesting point about Non's post if, based on my limited exposure to him, I doubt he would have caught that. I think it's more likely Titus fed it to him.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Non caught it himself, since he appears to be a regular, but that's NAI.

It is AI. If he cannot catch it himself, then he must be scum. We're not at LYLO so we don't need absolutes. Based on his play, do you think it's more likely that he could catch it himself, or less? If you had to put a percentage on it, what would it be? If he can catch it 1-in-5 games, then 80% of the time he's 100% scum, and 20% of the time he's X% scum. If your faith in him is that low, we hedge on him being scum. I agree that we personally don't know the extent of his capability though, which is why I asked other players to chime in, which they haven't.

[LuckyLuciano]

Alright, I missed "net". So Karnage meant to breadcrumb mason, yet he was vanilla. Titus was keen on lynching Karnage and Non hammered. How are you not giving me more reason to lynch you?

[LuckyLuciano]

Nope. Non's post caught Karnage's breadcrumb of "no claim". I don't know where Mena got mason from. The most interesting point about Non's post if, based on my limited exposure to him, I doubt he would have caught that. I think it's more likely Titus fed it to him.

I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Non caught it himself, since he appears to be a regular, but that's NAI.

It is AI.

If he cannot catch it himself

, then he must be scum. We're not at LYLO so we don't need absolutes. Based on his play, do you think it's more likely that he could catch it himself, or less? If you had to put a percentage on it, what would it be? If he can catch it 1-in-5 games, then 80% of the time he's 100% scum, and 20% of the time he's X% scum. If your faith in him is that low, we hedge on him being scum. I agree that we personally don't know the extent of his capability though, which is why I asked other players to chime in, which they haven't.

lmao what

him catching it doesn't make him scum automatically? why is it scummy to catch it at all?

Bolded for your convenience.

[LuckyLuciano]

Assuming I'm town, who is the scumteam?

[LuckyLuciano]

We have 7 players left. 2 are scum. If you are town you are looking at 2 scum and 4 town outside of yourself. You clearly think I'm scum, and you think wooper is scum. That's already 2 of the 6 not!you players. But you would also advocate lynching Titus and Homura. You are calling 4 of the 6 living players scum. Assuming you are town, and we mislynch somebody who is not you today, how the hell are you going to lead the town to victory at LYLO if your play this DP is to literally offer up anyone as a lynch who isn't you?

[LuckyLuciano]

the problem is that if you're town LL then you pushing me when I think I've been intensely townie ever since I repped in is something that scum like to do because if they don't have to burn a NK on me it's generally very useful for them

like I'm giving you a mild pass because you're a newbie, but by far the most obvious answer to you and scum!wooper trying to lynch me today is that scum!wooper is teamed with scum!you

so this gives me a much higher margin of error on those pushing me, and generally I need at least one other slot who I can trust to tell me if they think the push is good or bad faith. the problem here is that there are only about two slots I trust other than myself, and neither of them is particularly active or able to bounce ideas off me with them

I mean if you want to get into WIFOM, I can just come out and tell you that I was so good at scumplay on my old site that oftentimes town lost at LYLO because they'd rather mislynch me and lose than lose to me as scum again.

You are not ever a nightkill target. You are not ever "intensely townie ever since [you] repped in". There has been a majority to lynch you for several IRL days right now. I'm literally the one that advocated an extension to give my two scumreads time to post, because I'd rather take it slow and be certain. Mafia always wants to lynch you because you are so clearly scummy. Any mafia that night kills you is objectively bad. If you flip green, then pretty much every town in this game is collectively wrong and we can look back on the lynch to solve the game at LYLO. Your analysis on scum!Lucky wanting to lynch you to save a nightkill is so objectively bad that I can only see your play here as trying to mislead new players in a way that takes advantage of it being a newbie game and is harmful to the growth of mafia.

[LuckyLuciano]

We have 7 players left. 2 are scum. If you are town you are looking at 2 scum and 4 town outside of yourself. You clearly think I'm scum, and you think wooper is scum. That's already 2 of the 6 not!you players. But you would also advocate lynching Titus and Homura. You are calling 4 of the 6 living players scum. Assuming you are town, and we mislynch somebody who is not you today, how the hell are you going to lead the town to victory at LYLO if your play this DP is to literally offer up anyone as a lynch who isn't you?

err, no, that's not what I'm doing

I've at no point advocated lynching Titus or homura (other than saying we should Lynch within Titus and wooper)

I am saying that I think the most likely scum is (you, wooper) but that I could also see homura or Titus as scum because I'm not town reading either of them

I have a very strong preference for lynching wooper, but also yes, obviously any of those lynches are preferable to me because I could see them as scum whereas I know I'm town?

It feels like you aren't trying to scumhunt and you are just trying to survive. That's always either bad!town or !scum.

[LuckyLuciano]

what discrepancy?

You were townreading Titus.

But that's different. The minute hand was on an odd number when he said townread her. It's on an even number now. Give him a minute.

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: Menalque. I can't convince myself that it's not Menalque + Titus. If I'm wrong on Menalque, I'm down to reconsider at LYLO. There's literally nobody else that is going to get enough traction to be lynched this DP, so let's just move on.

[LuckyLuciano]

LL is lynching scum, but I guess that's what they call open wolfing on this site. /shrug

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

[LuckyLuciano]

My vote was on you before you repped in, my friend.

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

so you're just admitting that it wasn't a question asked in good faith then

Not at all. If you say something along the lines of, "Well, if you are town then I'm lost at who Wooper's scummate is" then you would look very town. How can you be so strong on your two reads and then so easily abandon one when asked a hypothetical like that? How much do you actually believe what you say?

[LuckyLuciano]

In addition, you logged on right as Homura was trying to sort me. Why not address the convo he and I had if you wanted to know why he TRs me, when

he literally just built his TR on the page you in which you jumped into the convo.

Instead you just spammed "why is LL town" over and over again. Did you not read anything Homura

had just posted?

[LuckyLuciano]

When I asked that question I was sorting whether your mindset is to solve the game, or to survive. Your answer indicated the latter. Simply having a POE isn't solving the game, especially when that POE, when you look at your reasons for people being in the pool, amount to anyone but you.

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

This feels slightly disingenuous — like it was a trick question where any answer Menalque gave would've be the wrong answer. How would you have responded if Menalque answered with the hypothetical you proposed in 1063?

Then he would look town, like I said in the post you quoted. I don't know why he is not allowed to say, "I don't know," or, "I would have to reevaluate after the flip".

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm a bit confused as to why you asked me what my reaction would have been when linking a post where I said what my reaction would have been?

[LuckyLuciano]

It's wrong to imply that I "wanted" any particular answer. If he answered in the way that I feel is town, then I would feel he is more town than I do now.

[LuckyLuciano]

It's wrong to imply that I "wanted" any particular answer. If he answered in the way that I feel is town, then I would feel he is more town than I do now.

Alright. I'll do you one in return.

Who do you think is scum if Menalque is town?

I've thought about it a bit. If Menalque is town, that's our last ML. The town!Cheeky read goes away (the one I made based off of Tapi's last post), so at that point I think we solve between Titus and Wooper. I don't think both are scum, so our best bet at that point is to correctly determine which is, then after a Menal mislynch + correct scum lynch we're down to 2:1 LYLO, at which case analysis will look far different than it does now. NKs play a big factor at that point.

[LuckyLuciano]

It's important to note that with every lynch and every NK the number of players alive decreases. That means we have more alignment-locks through dead players, and we can look back at past interactions as 100% tvt, tvs, or svs, because we know they are. That limits the amount of interactions we have to look at to solve the game. Menalque has demonstrated in 1036 that he engages in long-term thinking while playing. That's why

I

know that

he

knows to take into consideration the fact that the landscape of the game will be different next dp than this one. That's why I believe his answer to my question was disingenuous. If he never thinks long-term, then maybe as town he really is focused on this DP and survival. However,

he has actively shown that he is indeed thinking about how the game will play out in the following DPs

, so survival is not the only component of his decision-making. Why is he implicitly thinking long-term when attacking me, but default to a survivalist mentality when I ask him to conceptualize the long-term from a town perspective?

[LuckyLuciano]

Also, if Menalque flips town, DO NOT VOTE until you are absolutely sure of who you want to lynch. At 5 players it will take 3 votes to lynch. If you vote town, even if it's only a temporary vote to apply pressure, the mafia can quickly throw both of their votes on and flash lynch the townie. The votes should go down after every attempt to solve have taken place.

[LuckyLuciano]

Spoiler:

wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta

Catching up, but this is not true

okay, that's my bad

what are your reads as of this moment, Titus?

Scum in LL Wooper Homura

Both, or one?

[LuckyLuciano]

Titus, can you finally elaborate on 776 through 784 and also 788?

Wooper, if you think Titus is town because CJN is town, you have it wrong. CJN being town has nothing to do with Titus being town.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm considering elaborating on why CJN is town. Titus and Wooper should both know why, and they are my first guesses at mafia if Mena flips town, meaning the only way it benefits mafia to out what we know is if both mafia are among players nobody is looking at, in which case we've probably lost anyway.

[LuckyLuciano]

In the case of some fake claim shenanigans next DP, I think it's better for

everyone

to be on the same page about the setup.

[LuckyLuciano]

We both say CJN being town says nothing about your alignment. The only difference between our analysis is that I take CJN being town for granted, even if you are scum, absent a very particular event happening. The only way you being scum has an impact on CJN's alignment is if Crush makes it impossible for CJN to be town.

[LuckyLuciano]

The safer play is for any surviving tprs to claim here but I don't think that's the better play - wld prefer to enter f5 first regardless of how today finishes

Tbh I don't think? if the surviving tpr exists, they should claim yet

pedit: I wasn't softing tpr Titus.

What if Crush claims TPR? If he does, the game is solved, no?

[LuckyLuciano]

Do you really think the mafia doesn't have someone in it that realized what we were talking about a long time ago?

[LuckyLuciano]

Fair enough. I wish Homura or CJN would get on so we can move on to day 3.

[LuckyLuciano]

I think I just need to get used to how long games take on mafiascum. I have literally modded a 13 DP game before that finished in just under a month.

[LuckyLuciano]

Menalque, I'm not sure why you want everyone to drop their reads of your slot because you replaced in. The slot's alignment doesn't change when it's pilot is replaced.

[LuckyLuciano]

@Wooper. I'm curious, now that you seem to be TRing Titus, who do you think is Mena's scumbuddy?

[LuckyLuciano]

635
742
746
843
1122

This projection is super low-effort.

1) Non is scum, and there are reasons for it.
2) Menalque posted a lot, therefore I will unvote an re-evaluate.
3) I am going to go through Menalque's iso and review wagons (something that never happened), to better read him.
4) ???
5) Menal convinced me he's town, and there are no reasons for it.

I know you are just going to act like I'm reading your interaction with Menal in bad faith yada yada, but anyone can read you iso and see this transition is true to what you have posted and allowed us to see. You literally have not given a single reason why you believe Menal is town. I mean, honestly, what prompted you to post that Menal convinced you he's town without telling us a single way that he convinced you?

[LuckyLuciano]

Did Nom's alignment switch when Menal replaced in? What about Menal's conduct in particular outweighs your prior scum read on Nom's conduct?

[LuckyLuciano]

Did Nom's alignment switch when Menal replaced in? What about Menal's conduct in particular outweighs your prior scum read on Nom's conduct?

Yet another post Titus conveniently ignores.

[LuckyLuciano]

Hey CJV. Does it make more sense for you to locktown read Titus, or for Titus to locktown read you?

[LuckyLuciano]

Don't you think if CJV is red it's more likely they are scum with Titus than Mena?

[LuckyLuciano]

Wooper, what did you mean when you said you weren't getting lynched this DP?

[LuckyLuciano]

Let's just mass claim. I don't see a world where mafia doesn't already know the TPR hint. As unlikely as it may be, I do see a world where you get lynched, I get night killed, and a CJV + Titus scumteam mislynches Tracker Crush next DP, because everyone who is in-on-it, so to say would be dead or mafia.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'll start, I'm VT.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Unvote.I want to temporarily take players out of hammer range while we mass claim. There's no real reason to not do this before ending the day.

[LuckyLuciano]

UNVOTE: Mena

[LuckyLuciano]

Let's just mass claim. I don't see a world where mafia doesn't already know the TPR hint. As unlikely as it may be, I do see a world where you get lynched, I get night killed, and a CJV + Titus scumteam mislynches Tracker Crush next DP, because everyone who is in-on-it, so to say would be dead or mafia.

We aren't massclaiming. Stop fishing.

I'm not fishing. If you truly think Wooper is mafia, then you would know that Wooper knows the TPR situation. That would mean mafia as a whole knows. Therefore, you are only denying the town information. Either you think Wooper is mafia and we may as well mass claim, or you don't, and you're pushing his lynch in bad faith.

Wooper, what did you mean when you said you weren't getting lynched this DP?

exactly what i've been saying the whole time tbh.
i am very obvtown.
my predecessor was obvtown.
i am only being pushed by scum.
if this dp comes down to a 1v1 between me/mena, i refuse to lose it.

You just said you don't think I'm scum. My two biggest townreads are on you. So just who is scum?

This is a false dichotomy. He can think you are town without thinking your reads are correct. In fact, he's specifically stated your reads are incorrect.

[LuckyLuciano]

CJV is the friendly neighbor and Titus is his NP1 visit target.

[LuckyLuciano]

We have plenty of time in the DP. If Homura is acting in good faith, then even if he thinks Wooper is scum he will wait for everyone to post in case there is a counterclaim.

[LuckyLuciano]

Why wouldn't we CC this phase? We have 1 mislynch left. In case of a CC, we can literally lynch incorrectly and then get the mafia next DP, whereas if we lynch town this DP holding back a CC, and it comes out next DP, we lose the guaranteed kill on mafia.

[LuckyLuciano]

The thing is if CJV is mafia then it goes back to TSE unvoting Cheeky at L1, which goes contra to the current state of affairs. Eh, yeah, CJV is never mafia if Cheeky/Wooper is town.

[LuckyLuciano]

Not gonna lie, my desire to play this game is at an all-time low. I'm having a hard time focusing and generating reads because of something that happened outside this game. If it wasn't 1.2k posts in I'd probably have requested to replace out when it happened.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm fine IRL. It's not even an IRL concern. I can't really elaborate until endgame. I just feel it's impossible for me to genuinely read this game anymore.

[LuckyLuciano]

I'll probably just end up not trying to develop scumreads for the rest of the game and instead sheep whomever I find to be most-town. This DP it would be CJV. If he dies in the night, my entire play next DP would be to reread the game and decide who looks most town and sheep their vote, etc. It's not how I want to play the game, especially after putting this much time into it, but I don't think I can meaningfully scumhunt in this game anymore.

[LuckyLuciano]

What do you want to know about him? I can talk to you about every player in the game.

[LuckyLuciano]

He's largely flown under the radar for me. This entire day I've been focused on Mena. His slot not only makes sense to me as mafia from scummy play, but his flip, even if somehow town, I think gives us the most info going into LYLO. There are three players who have had that slots, (well 2.5) who have all had interactions we can look at. They are all more telling if we know his alignment. My plan was to re-evaluate the gamestate after his flip, even if I was right and he's scum. I can look back over Homura's iso if you want. Is there something in particular I should be looking at?

[LuckyLuciano]

Honestly, I'm not sure if I really can make reads without external bias anymore. I'm going to take a bit of a break and see if I can clear my head and come back to the game in a few hours. If not I'll probably ask Ploti to replace me out.

[LuckyLuciano]

I assure you I am fine. Still, I appreciate the concern.

[LuckyLuciano]

You’ve literally freaked out about being lynchable in the last like 5 minutes since you realised my mislynch is no longer surefire even if still p likely

you've been the lynch for like 5 seconds after you actually finally got a second vote lmao
you/titus were just parked on me all phase hooowwwww would i not expect to eat the mislynch

Bc literally everyone was talking about how open they were to being on me?

Like ceejay, homura etc were all happy to lynch me earlier

P sure LL still wants to lynch me

I'd rather just not play another game with you ever again. /shrug

[LuckyLuciano]

Checking back in, still not sure how to continue in the game, or if I even should be allowed to continue playing. I'm going to get some rest and reevaluate in the morning.

[LuckyLuciano]

VOTE: Mena.

[LuckyLuciano]

Honestly, I think I was overreacting last night. Between a 14-day self quarantine and my job + other places of gathering being shut down for 30-days I have probably been getting a bit stir-crazy, especially since most of my human interaction in that time has come from a game where I am to expect others to lie and attempt to manipulate me.

Back to the game, either Mena or Wooper is getting lynched today. That much is obvious to everyone. I know I'm town, so I don't need to sort myself. It's more beneficial for me to see where Homura, especially realizing early that I've been overlooking him for most of the game, votes than to sheep CJV on Wooper.

@Wooper & Mena, can we stop spamming and just let Homura decide his vote when he gets on so we can move on with the game?

[LuckyLuciano]

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance only outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

[LuckyLuciano]

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance any scum is outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

EBWOP

[LuckyLuciano]

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance any scum is outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

EBWOP

Why not try working this out yourself?

This is a bit ooc for you compared to earlier

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance any scum is outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

EBWOP

Why not try working this out yourself?

^ so what do you think LL?

I have legit only pushed town and defended scum all game. I don't really believe I'm the person that should be working things out at this point.

Well I've been pretty much wrong about everything this game. Is there a chance only outside of Crush + Myself is scum? If not we win by lynching between us in any order.

What’s your lynch order, then?

Obviously Crush before me, because I know I'm town. If he's town we probably lose because I don't imagine a scenario where I'm not lynched next DP.