Open 774 || Purgatory — Game Over

[Amrun]

VOTE: Elmo

Welcome back to mafia!

[Amrun]

Btw Elmo, I’ve been varying things but overall well! Got married and had a baby. I hope you are well too.

[Amrun]

Holy shit that hydra comp.

Glad this game is nightless.

They should have called the hydra wrecking ball.

[Amrun]

It's not that S_S's wagon is bad, per se. But Elmo has already committed the cardinal scumtell.

Which is?

[Amrun]

Fun fact: I had my vote loaded up and forgot to post, posted it and ignored p-edits. I actually don’t know what you’re referring to.

[Amrun]

The only thing I can think of is greeting tell but I don’t see that post as doing that, plus I think it’s a bad tell outside of newbies, and especially for someone literally returning to the game after years.

[Amrun]

But bro, I was literally RVS greeting Elmo because he was half the reason I joined!

[Amrun]

Hello.

Oof, speaking of greeting tell! It’s really a bad tell, but the timing was too good.

[Amrun]

VOTE: implosion

[Amrun]

ANYWAY.

Amrun's vote on me does not sit well w/ me.

There are only like 2 people that i even want to call town and i don't even have good reasons for them. This needs to be fixed.

Why?

[Amrun]

ANYWAY.

Amrun's vote on me does not sit well w/ me.

There are only like 2 people that i even want to call town and i don't even have good reasons for them. This needs to be fixed.

Why?

Assuming this is asking about the vote not sitting well, it feels quite like a "look like i'm doing something" vote. I don't really like the sidestepping of engaging with me after my comment in 58.

How is that a sidestep? I explicitly said I did not have a hidden agenda voting for Elmo. Your insistence and assumption that I did is what struck me off at all. If you didn’t see what you assumed I saw, why vote with me at all?

[Amrun]

@Strq: I agree with pops town. I think pops sounds much more forced as scum. She seems to be having fun here.

Looker I scumlean - he seems more disengaged than usual. Homura slight townlean for doing the greeting tell right after I talked about it. PKP totally null.

[Amrun]

I have played with Looker before. He marches to the beat of his own drummer.

implosion wagon is only semi-serious, like better-than-RVS wagon, but his stuff about me/Elmo came off weird to me. He says it was a joke but meh.

[Amrun]

@Team STRQ: I’m actually also confused by what you’re saying - implo is clearly voting me?

[Amrun]

@Team STRQ: I’m actually also confused by what you’re saying - implo is clearly voting me?

And it's clearly not an RVS vote.

-Raven.

So you’re saying he’s throwing a vote down for poor reasons just because we are moving out of RVS, just to have a vote down?

[Amrun]

@Team STRQ: I’m actually also confused by what you’re saying - implo is clearly voting me?

what?????
i'm not????

Omg lol you’re not. I thought you were. Why aren’t you?

[Amrun]

VOTE: Amrun.
Why you gotta be scum in my games?

I don't think you two are the same alignment. I want to find the scum(s) in you, Amrun, and implosion.

Can you go little deeper on where the non-t/t/t read on these three comes from? i am the first to admit I'm half assing solving so far but this feels pretty random

Looker always thinks I’m scum so like ... this seems on par for town looker actually.

[Amrun]

Amrun, what do you make of Elmo's vote on you?

I’m a little weirded by it tbh.

The “one of three” thing seems kinda TMI.

[Amrun]

But at that same time that seems a bold choice for Elmo scum coming back.

[Amrun]

I don’t think I’ve ever played with wooper playing seriously. He’s giving me crazy brain vibes like this:



This is largely a town trait. However, his conclusions are soundly wrong, so like :/.

Except for Elmo. I’ve been thinking about this and I think it’s just outside of Elmo’s scumrange to do this. He’s town.

[Amrun]

@pops: why is my townread on you TMI? I often give early game townreads and they’re actually almost always correct. They’re some of my best townreads I get. But obviously I’ll re-evaluate as necessary.

When we were playing TM, I remembered you saying in Fusion Mafia that your scum game was “a caricature of your town game.” I strongly got that feel from your play in TM, but I couldn’t mention that because Fusion was still ongoing. That’s why I pushed for your death so hard there. I get the total opposite feeling with your play here.

[Amrun]

Homura/Amrun nonzero s/s equity off like the scent of openers

Yes I agree, that's why I was careful to note that post was not S -> T.

Failing to note that burned me in G&R III when I saw a post that I correctly judged wasn't S -> T and I assumed it was T -> X when it was actually S -> S.

What was this based on?



VOTE: team strq

Their reads are too vague for my taste, given that comp and propensity for specificity/clear reasoning. Specifically dislike their treatment of my slot.

[Amrun]

What was this based on?

Oh. It's really brazen for scum to call out a townie who may or may not be a newbie for a greeting tell, which could easily blow up in your face if they aren't a newbie, or even if they are but people think it looked opportunistic.

On the other hand, it's a reasonable way to distance and play dumb with a partner.

But I had previously stated, and re-iterated, that I don’t think the tell is reliable and should not be considered. It was basically a joke because I don’t think greeting tell is AI outside of literal newbie games.

I don't think i have strong feelings on the first part of 293 tbh, i agree i wouldn't try to drive a lynch off it? but as a cursory observation the way it was i don't think I'd find it particularly difficult to drop as scum regardless of Homura's alignment


uhh the only person who's meaningfully interacted with my content is Amrun agreeing with my hard Elmo townread and i just called her out on buddying Elmo so....

I appreciate the high value of me interacting with other slots but i think I'm the least boring slot itt by a decent margin atm and think people should be trying to engage meaningfully with me rather than vice versa

I want to dig into your stuff when I have a little more time, but you can accuse me of buddying Elmo all you want, I’m not going to change my read based on how you’re going to perceive me.

[Amrun]

I have this kind of chicken sexer kind of feeling that wooper is scum, like what he's been doing is cut from the cloth of the scumgames I've seen and not the town game.
Wooper do I only get to see you play town one time ever?

Wtf is a chicken sexer kind of feeling?

I’m terrified to ask.


Beyond that, I agree. Purely from an effort standpoint, I gave wooper the benefit of the doubt, but all his conclusions so far seem kinda basic and convenient. I mean I can see why someone would think I was buddying Elmo by simply greeting him, or whatever, but I absolutely planned to greet him before I ever picked up my role PM. So this one I see as NAI, because someone who did not know me may not know my personality in this way.

But the Homura/me thing is weak. Like why would I not, as scum, just choose not to address that? I had no reason to. I had just stated greeting tell was NAI. Pointing out a theoretical scum buddy doing it after saying greeting tell is NAI just brings negative attention to a buddy for no reason. Like I could just ... NOT?! I was just joking around and having a good time. I think trying to jam that peg into a round hole is just meh.

[Amrun]

I want to feel like implosion is being scummy but I maybe don't? I need help.

I feel like S_S is scummy, apart from the dad joke thing. He seems to be using a site reputation basis for my scumrange instead of a personal experience basis for my scumrange, having played in two of my most sloppily played scumgames and none of my stronger performances but still stating a strong belief I can fake good shallow analysis as scum. This might be too tinfoil hat or off the rails? But a reputation basis is the bar for what optically looks good to others for how he sorts me while his personal experience would tap-in more to what he actually wants to do.

I like, scumread that more than I scumread implosion shifting to a scumread on me with this really vague skepticism notion tossed out. Please send food and money.

This is interesting. On what the part of this spectrum would you consider your performance in TM?

[Amrun]

I mean, I do like animal rights, but that is definitely not where my brain took that. That’s much better.

[Amrun]

It’s also hard to play scum against like 60 players - totally get it. I won’t think of that game as representative of your meta then.

[Amrun]

I’m behind on this game, catchup after work

You guys have been busy. I was caught up when I went to sleep.

[Amrun]

I can't do this anymore.

Vote: Team STRQ

At this point No.

Is this a policy vote, or do you think the hydra is scum?

[Amrun]

Case in point:

I've just dropped another bunch of reads you're welcome to engage with.

Wooper said this and you told him to cut the bullshit... like, sure if you feel that way, but you're BOTH just talking past each other.

So what do you think this says about their alignments?

[Amrun]

am I being lazy? like I probably owe Amrun iso another read now I'm not manic and slept a bit better but I don't remember thinking anything she's done is towny and kinda found her early game a bit sketchy, really liked Elmo's vote on her (allow that says more for Elmo than Amrun) and didn't really vibe the way she hasn't like.. posted anything towny for a fair while

her reactions to my initial callout felt very much like "duly noted; moving on..." which I don't hate but she hasn't been moving on?

what's your take on amrun?

This is the problem I have with what you’re trying to push, Wooper.

I AGREE that Elmo scum did not have good motivation to go against my congeniality. This is a good case for Elmo town.

It is not a good case for Amrun scum, which you admit above, and are pushing anyway. You have failed to show why what I did was buddying, and why would I do this as scum as opposed to picking apart Elmo’s playstyle for a mislynch which is fairly easy to do?

And you never addressed my previous post about Homura, to my knowledge.

So I do find you hard to engage on this. I think you’re trying to wrestle control of the gamestate but not looking to sort me properly, which is more likely to come from scum.

[Amrun]

@S_S: who do you think has the best handle on your meta, of this player list?

[Amrun]

Amrun just hasn't said anything really interesting in the past while. Like, 503 has plenty of words in it but no words that I really care about. It's a very personal read of Wooper that I can't really come around to easily, and it just feels like... doing stuff. It doesn't really make me want to townread her. It's like, I'm not really getting the sense from her ISO that she's going through posts in the thread and seeing things that pique her interest that she wants to delve into; it feels like she's looking at the thread to find the things she has to deal with, dealing with those things, and then not really doing much else.

Case in point:

I've just dropped another bunch of reads you're welcome to engage with.

Wooper said this and you told him to cut the bullshit... like, sure if you feel that way, but you're BOTH just talking past each other.

So what do you think this says about their alignments?

I've said I think they're both town, Wooper more strongly. I don't think the talking past each other necessarily says much about their alignments on its own, though it certainly is something that can be characteristic of TvT as some have pointed out.

Why ask me this? Do you think I'm going to say that I think it makes one or both of them scum? From what I can tell, the two of them are your two biggest scumreads right now (give you're voting STRQ and you're devoting most of your words against Wooper), so surely you have some perspective on them being at each others' throats? The fact that you ask me this instead of like, giving your own opinions in this case, just kind of feels like you're engaging to engage rather than on the things that should be most pertinent given the view of the gamestate that you have here as town. Unless I've missed something.

You have missed something. I always, always sort by asking questions. My reasonings for a particular question might not make sense to other people, but it usually makes sense to me.

In this case, saying something like this was a little confusing to me because I don’t consider this to be common from TvT, which didn’t align with your expressed reads. I was curious why you weren’t re-evaluating your reads given you felt they were talking over one another.

You seem fine with the idea that this is TvT, which is a satisfying enough answer I guess. I don’t agree though; I think there is a scum there.

I can't do this anymore.

Vote: Team STRQ

At this point No.

Is this a policy vote, or do you think the hydra is scum?

This is also, like, a little weird of a question to ask someone who just voted for the same person as you. At least a little, or at least it's not the kind of thing I can ever remember thinking when seeing someone vote with me. Also kind of feels like engaging to engage at that.

Wouldn’t you want to know if someone honestly thinks X is scum as opposed to policy voting? I really don’t understand this objection.

I’m trying my best to engage MYSELF with the game I’m having a hard time getting into. Why are you discouraging that?

[Amrun]

Those posts are as far as I got, busy at work

[Amrun]

I was expecting a counteroffensive from Amrun

What does this mean? Why do you think this hasn’t happened? What do you think it means about my alignment? Do you care that I’m voting team strq?

[Amrun]

For I think Ame’s question, my top three townreads are {Elmo, S_S, pops}. Pops is wavering a bit lately but still too 3. My top two scumreads are {wooper, team strq}. I believe this argument is TVS but I’m not sure which side is scum. Initially I thought team strq but now I’m leaning wooper.

I’m uncomfortable that wooper goes after me, and all I do is challenge him to show how my play is scum motivated, and he immediately backs down. That weirds me the fuck out.


Pops... I know you’re voting me, but what if we make your dream wagon real?

VOTE: wooper

[Amrun]

Implosion, why is trying to engage with you like trying to engage my toddler in a game of chess? You say you’re bored but I open a dialogue and you drop it.

[Amrun]

I know deadline is soon - popping in - appears wooper is wagon - yay

[Amrun]

VOTE: S_S

S_S had no motivation as scum to try and derail two dueling town wagons. He’s my strongest townread now.

[Amrun]

I almost opened the day self-voting for heaven but I would like to take it a little slower than that. Besides, I think the idea of using the first heaven on a question mark and saving me for a later one has merit.

This is true. I kinda forgot this strat but it makes sense.

[Amrun]

Another note - I felt like there was so, SO, so much resistance to the Amrun wagon. Like the entire time.

Why do you think this?

I felt the opposite. Of course we would have different perspectives on this.


I’m fine with an Elmo heaven too.

[Amrun]

Ame is a big question mark for me, so if we go that route I’m not opposed.

[Amrun]

Yeah probably. His frustration seems fairly genuine.

[Amrun]

I am so sorry. Narrow your PoE so I’m not in it? Haha

[Amrun]

I am so sorry. Narrow your PoE so I’m not in it? Haha

Thank you for complying with the request I made

Yw

[Amrun]

I understand implosion is untrusting of me but being untrusting of someone typically makes me want to engage more if I am town and trying to read them. Meh.

[Amrun]

I don’t know if that’s a compliment. Lol

[Amrun]

VOTE: Ame

I think this slot’s alignment will be more telling.

[Amrun]

Why?

Amrun's Ame vote was like, super mega uber sketchy. So we need a counterwagon.

Do you have a strong read on Ame? If so, what is it?

I do not, and if we are going with sending a questionable slot, I like that slot.

If we are going for towny slots, I like you or Elmo. I said that already?


What’s your pick for sending a questionable slot?

[Amrun]

Hope to catch up soon. Very busy this weekend with toddler activities and studying for an exam for nursing school entrance. Sorry.

[Amrun]

I’m sorry for my inactivity here. I have the aforementioned big test on Saturday and I’m fully in a big autoimmune flairup and throwing up everything I eat and all sorts of horrible shit that comes along with it. I haven’t had the energy for mafia. I have like 3 hrs sleep as well. But hoping to catchup before I leave work today.

[Amrun]

Amrun:

I'm still waiting for a reply to my last post, or at least your grievance with the hydra. Also, what changed from you voting us to

wooper

?

Can you point this out for me? I looked and I’m still not sure what you’re referring to.

As for the rest, I felt like the argument between you and wooper was kind of empty. It felt trumped up, at the time. I ended up thinking wooper was scum, but I was wrong, so I’m definitely left with a healthy dose of suspicion for you.

[Amrun]

VOTE: S_S

fuck it, and I guess

pops

is up there for town too? Yes, it's possible scum constantly speaking with people is a viable strategy to be townblocc'ed, but I really don't see an agenda as

pops

has stuck pretty closely to her own reads and votes that haven't been backed by the playerlist. In a game where 1/3rd of the playerlist was wagoned in Hell1, the perspective of this slot has increasingly become town.

I know 1 of my 3 other heads disagree (

Qrow

from when I last heard) but I don't know if that has stuck.

cOmMuNiCaTiOn

the swords are for either defending townreads I generate or searching to see how far people are willing to go to avoid this head.

-Tai

You think both SS and pops are town?

[Amrun]

why are you townreading Ame implosion?

-Summer

Where are your reads for the moment. Where's your top heaven pick right now?

I've barely even read the game since sometime in the past phase

what is yours?

-Summer

My vote rests on them.
I don't need you to read. What was your gut saying after Wooper was green?

My limited view of the game says pops is more likely to be scum, otherwise I mostly only had a townread on implo and a somewhat townread on SS.

I kinda townread him currently but I don't know enough about how he plays specifically to be able to tell offhand whether him taking more stances this early in the game is indicative of either alignment, the setup, or the player amount/composition.

Shrug

-Summer

Saw this answer to my question, sorry - different hydra head reads had me confused.

[Amrun]

Looker has broken his town meta stylistically based on the accounts of two independent parties, and is working based on a townblock virtually everyone considers mostly town, with variance on which nodes they wouldn't count green.

Ame has been effusing difficult-to-fake content and promising more and

even if somehow scum would be the scum you'd prefer to lynch last, based on a qualitatively bad previous stance being necessary for her to even merit being in contention, as implosion laid out earlier

.

Can you explain these statements a little more? What do you mean Looker has broken his town meta? I was understanding it as the opposite?


For Ame, can you rephrase the bolder? I’m having trouble parsing it.

[Amrun]

it was a lovers game hosted by Amrun or something like that, I have to run like... NOW so I can't go find the game atm

but he was town that game

-Summer

Fusion Mafia if that’s helpful. It was me.

[Amrun]

Well I’m caught up.

If we are doing Towniest slot, I still like s_s for it. I still think someone like Ame who, if scum, would shift the game solve a lot, but is probably town is better.

[Amrun]

If I am wrong on Amrun though, it's probably S_S.

I feel like I've been over this before...

Did you see my reasoning for why Amrun town makes me town as well? Do you have any issues with it?

This kinda weirds me a little.

[Amrun]

Amrun why aren't you here? like, there has been so much room for you to turn around how your slot is being read this dayphase and it's just not happening. Is someone bussing you and it will look better if you lay down for it? I like I don't get this. Why is your last post an ink blot of paranoia about S_S townreading you? Why haven't you stained the page with concern that town!Amrun is looking at a game being thrown, because a lot of people controlling the discourse and projecting paradigms for this game are the ones that are scumreading you or have you as PoE scum. It doesn't fit my understanding of your personality very well. Kind of either way, but it fits even less if you're town

I don’t feel well at all. I’m having a chronic illness flare related to my autoimmune disease and I’m very busy IRL on top of it. I have a big test on Saturday. After that I hope to be able to devote more mental energy to mafia.

I’m throwing up any time I eat, my entire body is covered in hives, I’m in mental fog and unable to sleep. There’s no real describing it in words. It is what it is. It is part of my life that comes and goes.

It’s not related to my alignment.

This kinda weirds me a little.

Why?

Like, I townread you, but I’ll flip green, so you trying to justify your own alignment with mine is skeevy to me. But I otherwise TR you so I’ll disregard it for now.

[Amrun]

Welp. Not what I expected at all so I’m actually pretty happy, despite it not being ideal. I didn’t think Ame would flip red.

This gives me something to analyze with new eyes.

[Amrun]

I kinda forgot about this game. Coronavirus hysteria is kicking my ass at work right now. But I actually had some stuff I was meaning to do here so I’m working on that now.

[Amrun]

I am in coronavirus hell and I’m so sorry to all here.

[Amrun]

I’m not opposed to strq wagon though that’s probably where I was going to vote regardless

[Amrun]

I just wanted to put through ame’s iso

[Amrun]

I have things I want to do here that I hope to do tonight, but I’m still fine heavening S_S. That’s mainly what I wanted last heaven anyway.

[Amrun]

I’m so so sorry.

Are we heaving SS?

[Amrun]

VOTE: something_smart

Fine with this

[Amrun]

I probably plan to vote Elmo and I want to register that now but I do plan on re-eval some things

[Amrun]

Amrun on a scale from one to ten how much would you like to go to heaven

I mean, ten?

But I don’t think that’ll happen or anything.

I don’t understand this question. Why ask it?

[Amrun]

Ok, can you tell me what kind of answer you think would have been “good” since I already answered?

I don’t understand how anyone would answer this question differently as any alignment. Both want to be heavened.

[Amrun]

Because I’m town so heavening me means we definitely are not heavening scum, so it’s the only way to guarantee we don’t autolose. I still don’t understand your answer.

[Amrun]

Heavening two scum is also an immediate loss. The last person I felt confident heavening was heavened yesterday. Therefore I’m the next preferable heaven.

I’m not delusional enough to think that will happen but it is definitely optimal.

[Amrun]

Oh my god I felt so bad lynching wooper for wrecking this game.

I was scum please forgive me

[Amrun]

I lost heart in this game. Sorry everyone. I just didn’t see a way out.