Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

[Iconeum]

hello Doobietime, welcome! You should get an avatar for your profile when you have a minute, it'll make it easier to remember your posts

VOTE: Iconeum
did you roll scum this time?

outragious accusations

[Iconeum]

Hey! Didn't want to be first poster :') this is my very first mafia game of any format- so apologies in advance. I accidentally found myself here after a crazy game was started in the forums of a different game I play.

hiya

if you have any questions, just ask

otherwise, go lynch some scum!

[Iconeum]

Got a confession right there in his name, so VOTE: GuiltyLion

i wonder what the hit rate on this pun is

probably pretty high

[Iconeum]

So far iconeum and Doobie have been the only two to not throw out a rvs vote on their first post.

and what do you conclude from this?

[Iconeum]

Dunno 'bout the rest of ya, but I'm not gonna vote for her during D1 unless she does something super scummy at any point. Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

you haven't played this game if you haven't felled that noose closing in around your neck so yeah, i'm probably gonna vote there at some point

[Iconeum]

@mod i'll be vla on monday march 9 as well

Got it. - D

[Iconeum]

So far iconeum and Doobie have been the only two to not throw out a rvs vote on their first post.

and what do you conclude from this?

Nothing. Yet.

you found the need to call it out but don't conclude anything from it? that's called shading

VOTE: atarashi

[Iconeum]

So far iconeum and Doobie have been the only two to not throw out a rvs vote on their first post.

and what do you conclude from this?

Nothing. Yet.

you found the need to call it out but don't conclude anything from it? that's called shading

VOTE: atarashi

Given this statement, what do you think of post 28?

Moreover, I said I didn't conclude anything of it *yet*. It might be useful in the future, but perhaps not immediately. Would you rather me not say anything unless it's of immediate value?

Post 28 felt ok to me. It's not like what you said. It takes a stance. It was an opinion.

What you did was point something out without taking *any* kind of stance on your own opinion. That leaves the door open for someone else to push it, and then you can hop on without taking responsability. It felt like that anyway.

[Iconeum]

Calling a thing out without making a judgment call on it, so as to imply it's bad.

But it's not bad? At least not necessarily. I mean, maybe for doobie it could be considered scum-indicative since someone extremely new might shy away from throwing around a vote for shits and giggles, but for the se slot that's not super likely.

I mean, you can call us out for not voting. That's perfectly ok. But you didn't say anything about it. You stayed completely in the middle. You suggest it's bad for us to not vote without actually pushing it.

You could have asked us why we didn't vote. You could push and thus sort us. You could town/scum read it.
But neither happened. You just threw it out there like a bone to dogs hoping they'd fight over it.

[Iconeum]

lotus would you mind sharing what kind of mafia playing experience you have?

number of games etc

[Iconeum]

it's not about making a factual statement - nobody is arguing that what you said is factually correct.

What matters is intent. Why did you make that post? Town is looking to sort and determine player allignments, an element critically lacking in that post. So what is the intent?

You posted it, so it must have caught your attention. If it meant something to you, it would have been easy to add something like 'what does everyone think about the fact that these players didn't vote in their opening posts'?
That's game advancing.

You posted it in a way that is throwing shade on slots without committing to anything, while appearing busy but not taking point. And yes I scumread that.

[Iconeum]

Given the underlined parts of your reply, is this post also considered shading? You're pointing out behavior that is occurring/has occurred, but offering no judgment on it and/or are not taking action on it.

well ur not entirely wrong here

given the amount of words lotus used to help me push this, to then say 'it's not worth my vote' seems off

[Iconeum]

Actually UNVOTE:

VOTE: lotus

what do you think is scummy about lotus exactly?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: lotus

[Iconeum]

free pagetop?

dang

[Iconeum]

VOTE: Iconeum

Vote: Doobietime

Welcome have a vote.

Hi! Thanks. I'll assume it's not personal at this stage.

@GuiltyLion, @72offsuit, took me a few attempts to find a photo which was small enough but I sacrificed my original idea and found an (albeit less funny) one to fit

72, I was actually going to wait for a few replies as I like to observe people before interacting with them- however I got impatient and wanted to get things started.

Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

Thank you haha! I'm sure I'll experience a first day lynch/NK at some stage. I'm more concerned with keeping up with everything!

Thanks for the kind welcomes and offers of advice, everybody. I've read the thread so far and there aren't that many conclusions to be drawn for me.

I'm voting Iconeum because when Atarashi justified their comment by saying Lotus did the same thing and therefore should have been scumread too, Iconeum changed their vote. Is 'well if I'm scum then

they're

definitely scum' a good enough reason for an SE to change their vote? Isn't this supposed to be a more or less random voting stage? We have nothing to go on.

Also I feel as though the observations both Atarashi and Lotus made were both making notes for later in the game, a town indicator for me for now. Another reason why Iconeums voting attitude is confusing me.




By the way, is this post too long? I tried to shorten it, but, I'm a wordy person. Always open to feedback.

I pushed atarashi for doing something that pinged me. Then I engaged with atarashi over it, and thought he responded in a very townie manner. The way lotus hopped on without actually voting really pinged me as well, so I switched. It's called sorting. If you think I will vote only to get a lynch, ur mistaken.

You might have nothing to go on, but how will you get something to go on if not pushing players? You don't even have to scumread a player to vote there.

By the way, is this post too long? I tried to shorten it, but, I'm a wordy person. Always open to feedback.

Nah, I wouldn't worry too much about the length. Seems fine to me.

The point about Ico switching vote when and how he did is a pretty good one, in my opinion. Not just with Atarashi's "what about" argument, but it just doesn't flow coherently in context either. Asking for Atarashi's reasoning for why he thinks I'm scummy, getting an argument that does boil down to "if you think I'm scummy, then so are they" and then... Ico switches vote. With no further comment or explanation. On its own that rubs me as very off, but the greater context is even more telling. Namely, thanks to 7/2's initial jokevote, Ico's pushed me to -2. Luckily any even halfway competent scum would not pounce on that at the start of D1, so like I don't feel threatened by it at all.

But, Ico, ol' buddy, ol' pal, do us all a favour here and explain yourself, yeah? You were looking pretty okay in my mind, but combining the immediate vote on Atarashi over something that is a good point but a weak case and then a naked vote following an argument that is fundamentally worse is, frankly, incredibly bad.

For someone who's 'not feeling threatened' for having a couple votes on you, you sure sound stressed. If you think my vote on you was pretty bad and scummy, why are you not pushing me for it?

Searching for a replacement for GuiltyLion. Do not discuss this until after the game is over.

Hello friends

Oh hey wow would you look at that crazy and totally meaningless collection of words and letters

Information

--> two mechanically proven towns.

Is Menalque a proven town just because he said he was or is there more to that assumption?

I don't see a scenario which

Scum!Menalque

would bluff a claim with the risk of receiving a

CC

on the first day.

Do you ?

Spoiler:

That's funny, because I don't see menal with access to the mason pt.

Just reading some quick thoughts. I really don't like how ico just jumped on the wagon with no real reason in 49. It looks like almost to easily an opportunity to just drop a vote down. And just looks scummy to me. Granted lotus just seems a bit lost with not advancing but I don't know their knowledge thus far of the game. And how much mafia they've played.

Oh but I do. I asked them about there experience. Turns out they have quite a bit of it. And the way they write makes me feel they have done this before. If you consider my vote on lotus as easy and opportunistic, what did you feel about lotus agreeing with me a lot on atarashi, but not voting there?

If you say i'm opportunistic, what did you think of my atarashi vote?

[Iconeum]

also

for obvious reasons

VOTE: menal

[Iconeum]

i'd literally be happy to just flashlynch menalque right here and now

[Iconeum]

VOTE: mena

Even if ico is lying, 1-for-1ing seems really bad right from the get-go.

you think that if mena is actually a mason, and i'm scum, scum!me will counterclaim in game instead of just nightkilling him?

[Iconeum]

the real thought here is rather:

if mena is scum, why would he wanna do this?
if mena is town, why would he wanna do this?

it makes no sense from either allignment

[Iconeum]

omg i gave you another one?

i'm not sharp this game that's for sure :s

[Iconeum]

the real thought here is rather:

if mena is scum, why would he wanna do this?
if mena is town, why would he wanna do this?

it makes no sense from either allignment

Wait, so are you CCing him or no?

[Iconeum]

ask yourself the question:

what does menal hope to gain by claiming that from either allignment

[Iconeum]

does a town!mason!menal really actually claim this early? No
does a town!vanilla!menal really actually claim this? Maybe
does a scum!menal really actually claim this? Maybe

Most benefit here is to scum!menal, which is why i am voting him: either nobody counterclaims and he sets up a fake claim for later, or he goes 1-1 with town power and maybe gets a town PR lynched and learns about the setup.
The only benefit to town!menal is trying to draw a nightkill on him, which is very uncharacteristic for him because he believes (and mostly rightly so) he is a good player capable of solving games. Thus the benefit is really low

[Iconeum]

I think this is tentatively +town for the dragon

[Iconeum]

the real thought here is rather:

if mena is scum, why would he wanna do this?
if mena is town, why would he wanna do this?

it makes no sense from either allignment

This is my whole issue with this.
Why the hell do you claim on D1? Are we Playing 200 iq game or something for a crazy gambit?
The only thing I can see if this is town sided is to have a NK used on him to make it so the prs can safe claim tomorrow and we have almost two confirmed ICs using this logic

Mafia sided you flush out the prs or try to for a CC claim. Either way this is not good but scummy from either side and pays into

LYL, lynch all liars.

First off, LYL is overrated and will catch town at least equally as much as scum. Thinking town doesn't lie is just wrong. I'm not advocating town to lie, au contraire. But the sad sad truth is what it is.

I'm considering about 1 (one) alternative that menal is doing but i'll let that be up to him to claim that if it's actually just that.

[Iconeum]

Also i'm a bit sad that menal went ahead and pulled that because Lotus is actually just scum here.

[Iconeum]

this is spicey for 7 pages

[Iconeum]

One word.
From this bad claim.
Y/N Menalque Scum?

[Iconeum]

I feel like i'm playing a game of chess vs a friend of mine

he'd always try and trade queens early on, because he felt like he'd gain advantage with it

[Iconeum]

Idk why the dragon fake CC’s me unless he’s trying to create a confused nightstate where I may not be the NK tbh

you would rather sacrifice an actual town power role over yourself because you'll feel that you are more capable of solving then the town power role

then sacrifice yourself to save a town power

menal i don't see any town motivation behind your play here

scum!shenanigans in newbie games? probably

can we get some votes on menal please thx

[Iconeum]

Which I assume you would get if you thought about it for more than about 5 seconds

wait ur actually serious about your claim?

[Iconeum]

Icon why is lotus scum?

he backed my push on atarashi in a very fencestitting manner

then proceeded to not vote there

and when i voted him he responded in a very panicky way:

The point about Ico switching vote when and how he did is a pretty good one, in my opinion. Not just with Atarashi's "what about" argument, but it just doesn't flow coherently in context either. Asking for Atarashi's reasoning for why he thinks I'm scummy, getting an argument that does boil down to "if you think I'm scummy, then so are they" and then... Ico switches vote. With no further comment or explanation. On its own that rubs me as very off, but the greater context is even more telling. Namely, thanks to 7/2's initial jokevote, Ico's pushed me to -2.

Luckily any even halfway competent scum would not pounce on that at the start of D1, so like I don't feel threatened by it at all.

But, Ico, ol' buddy, ol' pal, do us all a favour here and explain yourself, yeah? You were looking pretty okay in my mind, but combining the immediate vote on Atarashi over something that is a good point but a weak case and then a naked vote following an argument that is fundamentally worse is, frankly, incredibly bad.

There's a couple points in there for which he could scumread me, but doesn't? His comment about not feeling threatened feels like the exact opposite. And the way he calls me his buddy, rubs me in the wrong way, guy.

[Iconeum]

Obviously

oh ok i'm sorry

can we lynch menal now plz?

[Iconeum]

i'll die in the night, but yall' can lynch lotus tomorrow

[Iconeum]

Stop doing this

It was useful when you were trying to WIFOM scum on who the PR is but it’s becoming increasingly less so the more that you make this about you and me and less about finding scum

i would have accepted that you were shitposting

your insistence here is clear ur lying and i don't see any town motivation in that so

prepare your final will, the noose is coming

[Iconeum]

Again, there is literally no reason for scum!me to claim masons so can you stop being dense

what's the town!you reason to claim masons?

[Iconeum]

The only gain to claim is protect the actual masons.

only ur not protecting actual masons by claiming that because:

1) other masons will go FUCK HE LYING MUST BE SCUM LYNCHHHHH

2) menal doesn't know there are masons unless he actually is a mason. therefore he risks pinging other power roles, who will either CC him and push him, or investigate him at night which is usuless if menal is town, diverting power away from scum.

so yeah

this isn't town

[Iconeum]

i also thought his 'claim' was a nice little diversion away from lotus

[Iconeum]

literally the only option here is that he's actually mason, but i don't think he ever claims that so early

he's gonna have bigbrain plays with his mason buddy down the road, not use himself as a lightning rod

[Iconeum]

I don't see how this is town sided at all. There was no pressure aside to kill that slot? Even all we do is get an IC for D2 if he isn't lying. But what about if he is and wanted to try this crazy gambit

i mean one should calculate that a crazy gambit might not work out quite how you intend it to...

[Iconeum]

hmmm i wonder if i vote twice i'll get onto the second wagon?

VOTE: menal

[Iconeum]

menal on l-2

more vote plz

[Iconeum]

But for now I'm definitely voting VOTE: Ico, since his arguments are nonsense, come off as incredibly bad faith and wanting to gun down the one person who seems solidly Town is very panicky and defensive in its own right.

menal buddy confirmed

lynch this next plz

[Iconeum]

But for now I'm definitely voting VOTE: Ico, since his arguments are nonsense, come off as incredibly bad faith and wanting to gun down the one person who seems solidly Town is very panicky and defensive in its own right.

give me one good reason that menal is solidly town to you?

[Iconeum]

Ico absolutely picked Menal here as the target for the lunch first, and is trying to force the conclusion when the evidence isn't there. That's pretty bad on its own, since it's something that's more scummy than not, but combine it with yesterday's stuff and Ico just looks so much worse to me.

Tell me, if i'm scum here and I see menal claiming a power role.

What do you think is more likely that I do? Go in a 1v1 with him where I die 100% of the time either today or tomorrow?
Or do I do nothing, accept his claim and kill him in the night without any kind of suspicion on me?

[Iconeum]

@lotus can you also tell me what your opinion of menalque would be if it gets proven he's not a mason?

[Iconeum]

i'll be vla over the weekend including monday so eh

hardclaim masons

and it's not with lotus or menal ^^

[Iconeum]

i even had a great crumb planned for later in the day

[Iconeum]

I love how lotus just jumped off the wagon.

oh i missed this! yeah his opening vote was GL so it transferred to menal lol

menal scum and this game is over

[Iconeum]

I kept the claim up for that long because I was hoping you get over yourself and realise that that obviously wasn’t a claim from scum!me but from VT me baiting the NK

there was absolutely no need to bait anything

this is a newbie game and i don't feel there's a ton of room for shenanigans like that

[Iconeum]

lotus feeling opportunistic in taking my claim at face value and trying to push icon (the main person SRing them) for it

72 is just a really shitty hop on

i already pinged lotus as scum prior to your claim, and was pushing it

thanks for drawing the attention away from that


now, more votes on menal plz

[Iconeum]

Hmmm, i kinda feel worse about icon now

come at me bro

[Iconeum]

Idk simultaneously he’s scummy because the last time he shitpushed me this opportunistically he was scum

But I don’t think scum him claims masons with his buddy to get me lynched?

i tend to shitpush as scum, yeah

but this is a straight out CC to you here, nothing shitty about it

[Iconeum]

i literally gave you the option to withdraw and you didn't

you brought this upon yourself

[Iconeum]

Imagine thinking that this is my scumgame

imagine fake claiming a power role in a newbie game on day 1 in one of your first posts as town

[Iconeum]

What exactly is my plan here icon?

i've really wondered about this

scum!you draws out the real claim, and then does exactly what you are doing now: playing the victim. Making it the power role's fault for not playing along.

town!you fake claims to draw a NK? No. Town!you plans on staying alive and solving/winning this game because you think u can do better for town then simply eating a bullet at night.
And if ur plan was to eat a bullet, you wouldn't claim a PR. You would obv!town like crazy so scum would have to kill you.

[Iconeum]

PRECISELY BECAUSE I THOUGHT YOU KNEW ME WELL ENOUGH TO REALISE THAT THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I WOULD DO AS SCUM

i would actually argue that I think i know you well enough that you wouldn't do this as town

[Iconeum]

(2) I felt like it, and I don’t need to offer more justification than that

agreed, and i even gave you a window there when i said there was exactly 1 reason that i could see town!menal doing this

feeling like it/shitposting/having fun whatever

and when i called you out and you would have answered this i'd have townread you for it

but you kept insisting and i think it comes from scum more then town

[Iconeum]

“You’d obvtown like crazy”

What like I’m doing now you mean

ah yes obvtowning so hard that you make me wanna lynch you on the spot

[Iconeum]

as said before, this is very early in teh day and i don't actually want it to end plus i'm away for the weekend

UNVOTE:

don't take this as me not wanting menal for lynch, but i want to see all players post more and get more reads before ending the day, for which we have PLENTY of time

[Iconeum]

Yes, because I was hoping you’d realise what I was doing and go with it so I wouldn’t have to talk to you like this now and out you as the real PR

i mean, if you don't wanna out power roles

maybe like

don't fake claim one?

especially in a newbie game where there are more inexperienced players then experienced ones? it was ++likely that someone would counterclaim you anyway

you bring forth argumentation that i should know better and that may be so, but what if *anyone else* with less experience with you was a power role?

[Iconeum]

you think newbies are gonna see what you are doing and play along?

no

you would destroy a newbie power role player for no reason other then shenanigans

[Iconeum]

i really don't know what you were trying to achieve menal

if any of the new players were a power role, they wouldn't know what to do

they'd have to either fish something like 'ehm guys should the actual pr counterclaim if there is one hahahah gettit hmm?'
or full blown counterclaim you resulting in this situation as well

there's not a lot of worlds where you achieve anything good from this

[Iconeum]

if ur actually town then this was out of place and lessons are hopefully learned

and ofcourse there's just a world where this is scum!you going for a big brain play

[Iconeum]

WHAT NO NOT AGAIN

[Iconeum]

Newbies are here to learn, and the truth is that people do not play “by the book” very much at all. And doing so is a really easy way to get duped by scum who play “by the book”

i've got a perfect lesson for them right here

[Iconeum]

Pretty sure that about 80% of the last few pages is just icon feeling like he needs to show the world he’s got a bigger one than me instead of actually taking a step back and looking at my play in which case he’d know that I’m incredibly obvtown rn and we could get on to working together to solve the game

i don't have much of an ego tho, especially on-site

and like i said, i think i was trying to solve the game prior to when you drew up all the attention with that fake claim

but now it's my fault and i have to take a step back? after i gave you the chance to back down from shenanigan play?

no

[Iconeum]

we'll see how everyone feels about this situation

[Iconeum]

Sophie

If imscum then i am fakeclaiming

The absolute Optimal play for town power IS to counterclaim and lynh me

The trade IS in town benefit because the town power can effectivelu catch scum this way

[Iconeum]

Sofie should be dobie

[Iconeum]

In other words, im proveable town

So do you still scumread me of no?

[Iconeum]

@Doobie:
If you thought it was a stupid point, why bring it up?

Because Iconeum's SE status leads me to believe they wouldn't give away their alignment in their first post, but if Ico turns out to be scum, that's exactly what happened. Stupid, because it would be an absolutely horrendous poor play, but still doesn't make what I said incomprehensible.

Sophie

If imscum then i am fakeclaiming

The absolute Optimal play for town power IS to counterclaim and lynh me

The trade IS in town benefit because the town power can effectivelu catch scum this way

I don't understand how you're proven town? I don't know how anything can be proven with not one single action having been taken.

Don't masons have to be extra careful? I mean, it's only a PR until one gets lynched or NK- I'm assuming they can't communicate in a PT after that? Aren't you guaranteed to be killed N1 at the latest after hardclaiming, so the scum can eliminate towns only advantage in a Mason game setup?

If this is how you scumread me, how re u townreading menal?

[Iconeum]

hello dragonboi here

i'm baaack

catching up later today

if anything juicy happened over the weekend let me know ^^

[Iconeum]

328

I concur, it's unlikely, but not impossible. I said the same thing earlier in the thread about it coming across as TvT. But it's easy to play town when there is nothing to really substantiate an argument either way .

There's not that much (that's concrete) to be taken from what's been written so far, imo. Maybe it was all towns which were having a battle of wills earlier, everybody came across well meaning so I was looking for logical flaws instead.

Let me spell it out for you.
There is a mason claim (menal). There is a counterclaim to this (mine). Menal is lying. Then Menal backs down and says he was in fact lying.

From this you conclude that I must be scum and menal is probably town. This is not a town mindset from you. Not at all. You got caught in a bad spot and are having trouble positioning yourself based on a bad read from you.

Brief

PoE

according to my impression so far:

TRs

--> Ico | Menalque

(BoP)

TL

--> Hajimari | 72offsuit

Unsure

--> Lotus | Doobie | Walrus | Elmo

* I detected some traces of honesty during the conversation with

Elmo

, but nothing so expressive to consider

lock-town

. I believe that her doubt is genuine about the mason claim, as well as her reaction, but I still need a little more certain margin before concluding on such slot.

Lotus

,

Doobie

and

Walrus

need to be better evaluated before I can rate them (even with Lotus being

scummy

recently).

*

Hajimari

and

72offsuit

are

TL

because of their tone, at least as far as I saw.

*

Ico

is a potentially

mason

(if not confirmed), while

Menalque

demonstrates a presence that can be beneficial, but which is subject to his performance, and the time he will spend alive in this game.

* I will continue to operate at a low frequency, focusing on developing some sketches in my notebook. I will be available if anyone needs a second opinion on any matter.

Spoiler:

Find it hard to believe, but I actually agree with Clidd;s readslist for once.

Ye, agree that Mena is unlikely to be scum. Super risky strategy in a Newbie game to pull this sort of gambit. Agree it is basically suicide to trade 1 for 1.

Town-lean: Ico/Clidd/Mena/Elmo
Null: Ata/Doobie
Scum-lean: Walrus/Lotus

This doesn' feel genuine at all. There's a huge event (the claim and counterclaim), and from this you conclude a 'lean'? In what world is this not simply hard scum or hard town? I've not cased 72 yet, but i'm getting them scummmmmy vibes from this slot.

I'm confused by the multiple reactions to my continued vote on Ico, especially as it's been spelled out for me that it's not outside the realms of possibility. It's the best I have, guys!

I'm still reading everybody, including Menalque. It would be stupid not to. But I'm leaning towards him being Town for now, mostly because of his entrance- the aforementioned arrogance, the fact he said he plays for fun. This makes me feel like he dropped the mason bomb just to see how it would play out, I don't see him doing so without contingency plans in place for different reactions though. I can see ways he could be scum too. Tbh I haven't even ruled out that he might really be a Mason and there's stuff going on behind the scenes we aren't seeing. I have too many theories and not enough data to start narrowing them down.

I've got brainache, if I get lynched I'm going to have to put off starting a new game so I can lurk and keep up with what's happening :')

So you townread a faked claim, that drew out actual town power. And are scumreading the town power that counterclaimed the faker. How is this genuine? You are turning and twisting and sitting the fence wrt to all of the claim shenanigans but fail to take an actual stance. Heavily scum indicative.

IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER PR CLAIMS! COME OUT IMMEDIATLY AND CC THE MASON! If we have another PR claim the Mason is fake. Or if the PR cc is fake as both Masons' comfirm each other.

Holy shit can we lynch this scum-butt already?

Actually, this is the absolute optimal play for other town power to make. Town power is designated to catch scum, and if they counterclaim they literally achieve their mission. It's a SOLID trade. I don't read this as scum at all.

Eqsy, Doobie, 72off, Walrus


Both scum are probably in this list.

Strong list, and you get my +1

Lynching in doobie/72off is my opinion.

[Iconeum]

Alright I'm all caught up. Currently Im suspicious of Clidd and Elmo.

bad list, can you provide some justification for these reads?

Lotus looked pretty bad, but i'm not sold on this slot actually being scum yet.

Much stronger scumread in 72off/doobie

[Iconeum]

VOTE: doobie

clidd/atarashi/walrus townread in no particular order. menal prob town as well

Elmo is a bit of a ?

scumpile/lynchpile in no particular order doobie/72off/lotus slot

[Iconeum]

doobie is obvtown and we're not lynching there

[Iconeum]

why are you townreading atar? I'm very conflicted there

atar is obvtown and we're not lynching there

[Iconeum]

why are you townreading doobie? i'm very conflicted there

[Iconeum]

there is no sense of logical/townie thinking in those reads from doobie

[Iconeum]

i already pushed atar and engaged with it. very townie vibes and handled the pressure very nicely

then we started sharing reads et voila

instant townblock

[Iconeum]

So i think your Lootz read is off. I think we should lynch Lootz.

possibly yes

[Iconeum]

VOTE: lootz

i'm not getting any traction wrt to doobie so i'm fine going here

[Iconeum]

nobody is interested in my doobie case

and i did agree with the last or so post 72off made, which makes me vote lootz (ok lynch, if this is scum then i will no longer wrongly scumread 72off, if that flips town then 72off can be the next lynch)

[Iconeum]

i don't see any reason to tunnel on anyone, including you at this point

[Iconeum]

scumpile/lynchpile in no particular order doobie/72off/lotus slot

and it's not that i never wanted to push/lynch the lotus slot

my vote is more usefull there right now

[Iconeum]

and like

that wagon on eqsy is at least 3 out of 4 town

all of atarashi walrus and me are town or prob town, with 72off more doubtfull to me

which isn't bad at all

[Iconeum]

The lack of a counter-wagon is odd. I guess with esqy not voting it reduces the ability of a counter-wagon. I really hope this is a town-block game. If clidd/ata are scum then we were screwed anyway with the whacky start to this game

the wagon was at 2? votes prior to a couple *hours* ago

i and 72 only just made it an actual wagon so the lack of a counterwagon or response to it might just be timing tho

[Iconeum]

and like

that wagon on eqsy is at least 3 out of 4 town

all of atarashi walrus and me are town or prob town, with 72off more doubtfull to me

which isn't bad at all

I'm still not sure on the whole "walrus is town" line of reasoning given taht I'm not really sure that it exists.

Granted he's really only in my lynch pool because of general lack of substance and lacking a clear reason to see that he's town, but I'm really not sure where you're getting your confidence for this read from.

well i disagree with you on walrus read

305 was a pretty good opening vote, sheeping other reads that it agreed with. This is a newbie game after all and it's not easy 'finding your feet'. I liked it.

His 319 is a mindmelt with my thoughts at the moment, so i townread that

382 was a solid response that i townread off of tone and content, trying to sort 72off

while i'm not exactly convinced by the readlist he provided, i'm overall townreading the slot

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

ok if that's your stance

UNVOTE:

[Iconeum]

This sequence seems to me a strong indicator of town mentality.

i was liking his recent posts from 72off

how do you feel about about a current townblock consisting of clidd/ico/walrus/atari/72?

this is a strong basis

[Iconeum]

oh and menal probably too

damn i have a lot of townreads

if this game is solved in doobie/lootz/Elmo this is pretty neat

[Iconeum]

agreed with being carefull about 72

why not walrus?

[Iconeum]

Walrus has 10 posts, and we're going to post 604. I'm still trying to figure out how to interpret this.

ok low amount of posts but there is content to Judge him on

and i townread it

[Iconeum]

ok if that's your stance

UNVOTE:

What other stance is there? As someone who's replaced into slots before only to die within 24 hrs I find it a bit bleh to not.

Pedit: In all fairness people have lives. Also activity shouldn't tell sides which side they are leaning on but what do I know.

What other stance? How about trying to sort the slot based on actual activity and content rather then 'oh i'll just hammer so we definitely can't have any more content from that slot'

[Iconeum]

and like

that wagon on eqsy is at least 3 out of 4 town

all of atarashi walrus and me are town or prob town, with 72off more doubtfull to me

which isn't bad at all

I'm still not sure on the whole "walrus is town" line of reasoning given taht I'm not really sure that it exists.

Granted he's really only in my lynch pool because of general lack of substance and lacking a clear reason to see that he's town, but I'm really not sure where you're getting your confidence for this read from.

well i disagree with you on walrus read

305 was a pretty good opening vote, sheeping other reads that it agreed with. This is a newbie game after all and it's not easy 'finding your feet'. I liked it.

His 319 is a mindmelt with my thoughts at the moment, so i townread that

382 was a solid response that i townread off of tone and content, trying to sort 72off

while i'm not exactly convinced by the readlist he provided, i'm overall townreading the slot

my townread on walrus

it ain't much but it's there

[Iconeum]

clidd, I actually see his point tho. I read it that he likes your posts in general but your reluctance to vote somewhere despite having rather clear stands on players is holding back a townread.

I don't see anything wrong with that?

[Iconeum]

to be honest i'm not interested in people following my lead, but rather working *with* me actively to form town and scumreads

sheeping me on Day 1 will accomplish little to nothing

[Iconeum]

oh i'm not trying to say that specifically to you

but more to other players as well: don't just sheep me but work with me in making a solve for helping you guys figure this out in the coming days as i'm likely dead anyway

[Iconeum]

ok if that's your stance

UNVOTE:

What other stance is there? As someone who's replaced into slots before only to die within 24 hrs I find it a bit bleh to not.

Pedit: In all fairness people have lives. Also activity shouldn't tell sides which side they are leaning on but what do I know.

What other stance? How about trying to sort the slot based on actual activity and content rather then 'oh i'll just hammer so we definitely can't have any more content from that slot'

Little over 3 days. 20+ pages. Unless we got a deadline which Im not sure you can get in newbie games but I could be wrong. Its a shame too.

Also So you tell us you take risks but that doesn't prove anything. Are you telling us you meta and then going to try to curb it? I don't get it. Meta can be changed and faked even just looking at your join date not knowing anything else.

I'm holding my vote for now. I don't want to use it early.

Evidently I'll be following your lead, so you don't have to worry about that.

Are you afraid of using your vote? Why? The fact that you have held your vote and just "played it safe" This is slightly worrying

1) 3 days equals to about 30% of full time left. I don't see that much urgency.

2) 25 pages. It's not much. I'll even say that's a low number.

[Iconeum]

Elmo do you realize the full impact of what your quickhammer would do?

[Iconeum]

Why are we lining up lynches?
And calling a policy lynch?

I'm just trying to understand this logic.

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

In a game of mafia information is key. The less scum have the less they know about the setup.
So you are saying I shouldn't have lost it over someone claiming a PR to lure a NK and then ousting a PR for nothing?

Not sure where you have played but I come from the old times where this was just ignorant to do. You just did nothing to help the town with it. And it's more the surface level on why I got frustrated.

-Elmo: policy lynching is bad mkay
-Elmo: we need all the information we can get because information is key

-Also Elmo: I will quickhammer this slot to spare us having a replacement that might procude content and because it's lurking

[Iconeum]

Seriously I said

IF THEY GET REPLACED

I wish people would read what I said and understand this. As I've been a person who's replaced into games just to die 10 posts later.

Yes it's happened in newbie games.

In all fairness if they do not pick the prod up I will hammer them just so a replacement doesn't come into the slot to die.

No, you clearly said 'if they don't pick up their prod' I will hammer them. Did you use the word quickhammer ? No. But the act of hammering upon not picking up prod with 3 days (which is a lot) is in fact a quickhammer.

Justifying this with 'sparing the feelings of a player' is meaningless, because this is mafia after all. Even if a replacement only gets to post a couple times, it will be valuable for everyone upon flip.

[Iconeum]

No, you clearly said 'if they don't pick up their prod' I will hammer them. Did you use the word quickhammer ? No. But the act of hammering upon not picking up prod with 3 days (which is a lot) is in fact a quickhammer.

Justifying this with 'sparing the feelings of a player' is meaningless, because this is mafia after all. Even if a replacement only gets to post a couple times, it will be valuable for everyone upon flip.

1. Its not.
2. Its still not.
3. Once again if we don't get a replacement OR A DEADLINE EXTENSION. I didn't see the point of having a 3rd person just replace in to because at the time.

They were L-1

But what do I know. The simple fact that you have to use the word "quickhammer" irks me since that was never said at all.
The act of hammering for not picking up a prod to save the mod some trouble to be nice and find a replacement. I'm glad we're drawing lines in the sand now. And the act of lynching someone who is clearly not picking up a prod.

It's about your motivation. First you say you want as much information as possible, but when push comes to shove you already give intent to lynch DAYS before deadline AND not allowing a possible replacement to catch up (ergo quickhammer), denying us any possible information.

Using an excuse as 'saving the mod some trouble' or 'saving a player the trouble' is a very poor reason to hide behind.

[Iconeum]

it's day 1 i'd rather not play associative game until we actually have a scumflip

[Iconeum]

you asked about the partner, that's called finding associatives or making them

its better to think about that after a flip rather then before at this stage of the game

[Iconeum]

So in the event eqsy flips green we lynch Elmo 10/10 times right?

Town logic is great sometimes. Because I'm saving the mod some effort you want to policy? This game.

No. You want to lynch a slot before it has the chance to post. That's scummy. Period.

[Iconeum]

I've given everything a read over and I'm kinda lost. Jeez, you people post a LOT.

oh boy do i have some bad news for you

[Iconeum]

I'm still thinking about the scum Ico theory, sorry to disappoint, but I'm less stuck on it now and feel as though my vote wasn't representative of my feelings overall. Not sure why scum me would have stood their ground so long if it was going to blow up in my face.

because you didn't believe it would blow up in your face is the answer to this

[Iconeum]

VOTE: doobie

[Iconeum]

Stop voting for town icon

exactly

everyone who's voting me needs to stop

[Iconeum]

i was making a joke about how you worded that

[Iconeum]

i'll respect your opinion on doobie for now

UNVOTE:

[Iconeum]

So all scum in (72, walrus, clidd, jormen)

from these 4, i townread walrus

i don't know about clidd

72 is in the middle, i scumread him previously but his last couple pages read very well

Jormen would be where I vote then

[Iconeum]

i think this is clidd town meta?

[Iconeum]

and yeah my doobie case stands:

you claim mason and I counterclaim you: doobie townreads you for the fake claim and scumreads me on the counterclaim

i don't like it

[Iconeum]

Elmo ngl your latest posts aren't helping me continue townreading you

[Iconeum]

And making sure I got my ducks in a row.

Carefull. Ducks are the worst.

[Iconeum]

VOTE: jormen

deadline coming up and i have weekend vla :s

[Iconeum]

L-1

time to claim

[Iconeum]

That’s a weird kill

I would like to see walrus, doobie and 72 trying to sort each other today

[Iconeum]

i hope that was a fake hammer?

or did you hammer on purpose so that the 'conftown' wouldn't be able to post?

[Iconeum]

72 you better pray that Doobie flips red or you're so getting lynched tomorrow.

[Iconeum]

dats is on

post gifs while you can boyz!

[Iconeum]

VOTE: doobie because, as I said yesterday, if that slot flipped red then doobie is probably the partner.

That being said, when I'm not tired as shit, I'm going back over mona's posts. I'm paranoid.

To be honest id be very suspect of mena had it not been for clidd being night killed.

I know night kill speculation is pretty wifomy, but i just do not see an experienced player not killing ico.

Its 2 newbie scum, so ye doobie fits

OTOH, I agree with this.

[Iconeum]

or menal is 300000 IQ'ing this

[Iconeum]

why do i always fall for these

[Iconeum]

doobie

72

Elmo

walrus

CAGE FIGHT GO

[Iconeum]

doobie

72

Elmo

walrus

CAGE FIGHT GO

Can I just watch the other two townies fight in this one?

Doobie was scummy as so i hammered so we wouldnt waver

So Green flip you dead tomorrow?

other 2 townies?
and i guess you will say you are townie as well

so who in the cage fight is scum exactly for you?

[Iconeum]

It's almost as if we had a cop

[Iconeum]

so what ur thinking?

fake mason claim

fake counter mason claim

and now follow the cop?

[Iconeum]

and scum didn't kill in either of the mason claims LOL

[Iconeum]

you know what would actually be funny

if menal and me were the masons

[Iconeum]

Right now I don't know what to think. This game just took a turn.

what turn?

[Iconeum]

the reaction test was gone once the vote count was posted tbh

[Iconeum]

Just going to call this like I do every game. Lists are worthless. This is turning into WIFOM from Mena.
Every post is looking worse then the last. Fake claim or not. I don't like it nor the reasoning
VOTE: Menal

The only gain to claim is protect the actual masons.

- Elmo voted mena earlier like I did, but never actually stated if she had a town or scum read on mena, now is saying scum is in

- Elmo voted for clidd who was very unlikely to be scum

- Elmo was not on the Esqy wagon till it was obvious Esqy was going to be lynched.

- Elmo still hasn;t committed to who she thinks is most likely to be scum

If Doobie is town, then I'm pretty sure Elmo is the last scum.

Right now I don't know what to think. This game just took a turn.

what turn?

The real turn is apparently Doobie wasn't hammered????

omg I'm a dumbass, the L-1 vote was 72. So he trolled me real good.

I think the whole thread got trolled but you know this is mafia.

Pedit: wanna tunnel me harder?
Menal is obv town it hurts.
2. I tend to move my votes around a lot and I did it because the man claimed to never put a vote down.
3. I wanted a free weekend of mafia. Glad to know thats how this works and deadline.
4. Oh honey. That's you after this gambit.

Because you just lining up them lynches now arent you?
VOTE: 72
Once again the game of gambits.

good goooood

[Iconeum]

can you guys fight and talk about the important bits like how Elmo kept pushing that lynch/hammer but people like me were giving him crap over it?

[Iconeum]

also

Actual footage of Iconeum waking up to see another day, colourized:

[Iconeum]

This also just got in

Scumteam caught on tape not killing in the mason claims:




(is only joke, hope you can take it )

[Iconeum]

I've disregarded no one with the exception of Menal. This game has just been very weird looking at it from it nk to the claims to just where we stand now.
It's paper tossing

You think I might be scum?

The whoever had been replaced 3x in the end. This shows how much attention to that slot. After the first and second replacement I'm really shocked they were filled so quickly. But it just turns into saving the mod time to die a replacement because it's annoying as fuck. To always be replacing someone.

1. Why waste time on a town consensus?

2. Why not what else am I going to do with it?

3. Exactly and you pull a reaction test in less then 24 hrs into it.

4. I'm saying it's trying to get towncred since you are pretty low on a lot of lists dear.

1. You sound like you are hard-claiming scum here.
2. Actually put pressure on the most scummy slot. Which definitely wasn't clidd.
3. And your conclusion/analysis of this is?
4. Probably the only thing that you have said in these posts that makes any sense from a townie's point of view.

How come you have such a strong scumread on the 1 slot who was hell-bent on lynching the scum yesterday before anyone else?

Do you think Elmo bussed THAT hard on day 1 in a newbie?

[Iconeum]

72 i simply disagree that Elmo's reaction to the fake hammer was scummy

[Iconeum]

intent to vote btw

claim your role, doobie, if you don't wanna be mislynched

[Iconeum]

@Doobie can you answer this as well please?

Because Iconeum's SE status leads me to believe they wouldn't give away their alignment in their first post, but if Ico turns out to be scum, that's exactly what happened. Stupid, because it would be an absolutely horrendous poor play, but still doesn't make what I said incomprehensible.

You scumread me, partially because of this right?

However, you are townreading Menalque:

I'm still reading everybody, including Menalque. It would be stupid not to. But I'm leaning towards him being Town for now,

mostly because of his entrance

So I'm being scumread because of my opening and because 'I gave away my role/allignment in my opening post', and menal gets townread because of his opening.

And what did menal do with his opening?

Hello friends

I

Am
Mason

Am

Mason
Am
Sunshine
Only
Mason

He claimed masons.

So while i'm being scumread by doobie for what menal did, he is getting townread for it.

[Iconeum]

@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

2.

Why did you never consider the possibility of me being a scum?

3.

Why do you prefer Walrus over Eqsy as a primary option for lynch?

4.

What would your guess be if you had to speculate who the second mason is?

5.

If Menalque happened to be scum in a hypothetical scenario, who do you think would be most likely to be his partner?

6.

Imagine that you are scum in this game, what would be your D1 strategy?

7.

What would be the possible partner if Hajimari were a scum?

8.

Last question: consider that you are PR in this game, but suddenly you noticed that Menalque and Ico claimed mason. You are, of course, not a mason, but you chose not to reveal yourself to the public. You believe that hiding may be beneficial in a way. Considering that your strategy was not to hold the CC today, what would be your course of action tomorrow?

[/b]

1 TBC... And this game so far I read you more as being town.

2. I have a townlean on you. I haven;t ruled you out as being mafia, you could most definitely be scum, I just don't see any scum-indicative behaviour so far.

3. I want to pressure Walrus more. There are still 4 days of D1. He is lurking and the posts he has posted don't give me the impression of a townie scum-hunting.

4. I don;t see how you asking me this and me responding to this is pro-town. If you or anyone else can explain and convince me of the benefit of this question, then I'll answer.

5. In the hypothetical scenario that Menal is mason:

Lotus/esqy - most probable, given post 213, where they say they believe the claim

NOT Ico - I doubt ico would have agreed to this plan and the response from ico was quite emphatic, felt like genuine frustration to mena's claim.
NOT Elmo - due to post 168 where she calls it a bad claim and because mena scumreads her
NOT me - because mena scum-read me

6. D1 strategy is to lynch the townie that I could most effectively paint as being scummy that looks like genuine scumhunting.

7. If Ata is scum, current read would be probably within {Clidd, Elmo, Walrus or Doobie} - middle tiers in reads list

8. I'd probably tentatively guess that its vanilla townie vs vanilla townie claiming masons
Depends on the night kill, depends on what my exact PR role was and what result i got from my night action.
If I had a guilty-ish/mafia-indicative report, I would allow for some scumhunting by town to proceed, see what evolves out of the mason claim situation if nethier claim died, and then out it towards the middle of the day: to allow for scumhunting early on, but to also allow enough time at the end of day for discussion of the report, my claim, and planning for the days ahead.

[/b]

IF doobie is town, ya'll should probably lynch 72 next I think.

This exchange feels like it might have felt to 72off that Clidd was a power role playing on menal and my claims. 72's answer makes me feel this way.

[Iconeum]

@Ico

On a scale of 1-10, how offended are you that Doobie has scumread you for that?

pedit: that's quite the hot take...

probably a 12

--

the problem i have is the fact that there is no townie progression, and the read feels faked and that doobie got stuck with it

[Iconeum]

pedit: that's quite the hot take...

it's a spicey nightkill and i was rereading the game to see if i could find any indication to what might have happened and that's about all i could come up with outside of *newb scum made a woopsie*

[Iconeum]

I asked you who was scum and you DIDNT EVEN MENTION DOOBIE

do you realize it was Elmo who kept insisting on hammering the scum previous day, and then did so?

[Iconeum]

I asked you who was scum and you DIDNT EVEN MENTION DOOBIE

do you realize it was Elmo who kept insisting on hammering the scum previous day, and then did so?

So what?

do you think it's very likely he *wanted* to hammer his buddy so badly?

[Iconeum]

Clidd was alrdy going to hammer anyway.

this is a way too easy of a dismissal of what Elmo did

[Iconeum]

hold up i think i had a conclusion about something that might actually be backward

[Iconeum]

@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

2.

Why did you never consider the possibility of me being a scum?

3.

Why do you prefer Walrus over Eqsy as a primary option for lynch?

4.

What would your guess be if you had to speculate who the second mason is?

5.

If Menalque happened to be scum in a hypothetical scenario, who do you think would be most likely to be his partner?

6.

Imagine that you are scum in this game, what would be your D1 strategy?

7.

What would be the possible partner if Hajimari were a scum?

8.

Last question: consider that you are PR in this game, but suddenly you noticed that Menalque and Ico claimed mason. You are, of course, not a mason, but you chose not to reveal yourself to the public. You believe that hiding may be beneficial in a way. Considering that your strategy was not to hold the CC today, what would be your course of action tomorrow?

[/b]

1 TBC... And this game so far I read you more as being town.

2. I have a townlean on you. I haven;t ruled you out as being mafia, you could most definitely be scum, I just don't see any scum-indicative behaviour so far.

3. I want to pressure Walrus more. There are still 4 days of D1. He is lurking and the posts he has posted don't give me the impression of a townie scum-hunting.

4. I don;t see how you asking me this and me responding to this is pro-town. If you or anyone else can explain and convince me of the benefit of this question, then I'll answer.

5. In the hypothetical scenario that Menal is mason:

Lotus/esqy - most probable, given post 213, where they say they believe the claim

NOT Ico - I doubt ico would have agreed to this plan and the response from ico was quite emphatic, felt like genuine frustration to mena's claim.
NOT Elmo - due to post 168 where she calls it a bad claim and because mena scumreads her
NOT me - because mena scum-read me

6. D1 strategy is to lynch the townie that I could most effectively paint as being scummy that looks like genuine scumhunting.

7. If Ata is scum, current read would be probably within {Clidd, Elmo, Walrus or Doobie} - middle tiers in reads list

8. I'd probably tentatively guess that its vanilla townie vs vanilla townie claiming masons
Depends on the night kill, depends on what my exact PR role was and what result i got from my night action.
If I had a guilty-ish/mafia-indicative report, I would allow for some scumhunting by town to proceed, see what evolves out of the mason claim situation if nethier claim died, and then out it towards the middle of the day: to allow for scumhunting early on, but to also allow enough time at the end of day for discussion of the report, my claim, and planning for the days ahead.

[/b]

IF doobie is town, ya'll should probably lynch 72 next I think.

This exchange feels like it might have felt to 72off that Clidd was a power role playing on menal and my claims. 72's answer makes me feel this way.

what's everyone thoughts about clidd?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: 72

doobie town

be better

it was never personal

my wife is in isolation because corona

life suckx

lynch scum

gogogo

[Iconeum]

Page 20.

My head hurts.

Subs are starting to come in. Like it isn't confusing enough.

this game is pretty straightforward why are you faking confusion?

[Iconeum]

VOTE: DP

[Iconeum]

icon do you not think that doobie's last post before reping out was townlockable?

yes but everything before that... wasn't

[Iconeum]

Prodding Iconeum. This is his first prod.

icon do you not think that doobie's last post before reping out was townlockable?

yes but everything before that... wasn't

[Iconeum]

Icon's elimination progress:

menal town because of his shenanigan play and me not being dead

atarashi town after D1 discussion - revisit if both doobie slot and 72 flip town

walrus - obviously town if you read iso

72 - meh, lynch if doobieslot town

doobieslot - scumread

did i get everyone?

oh clidd

hmm

[Iconeum]

elmo townie

boi

gurl

she wouldn't be bussing that hard on day 1 would she?

[Iconeum]

Gg all

Good effort Elmo you had me fooledxwith the buss