Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

[72offsuit]

Greetings Earthlings.

VOTE: Lotus

Anyone with such a peaceful name is surely a sheep in wolf''s clothing.

[72offsuit]

Hey! Didn't want to be first poster :') this is my very first mafia game of any format- so apologies in advance. I accidentally found myself here after a crazy game was started in the forums of a different game I play.

Welcome doobie

It would be really great if you could find an image to have as an avatar.
It helps with player identification, especially later on when all the posts kind of meld into each other.
Just find a small image size on google, and in your user control panel, upload the image as your avatar.

If you are town, the best thing you can do is be active, but try and post meaningful posts where you are analysing others player's posts and trying to determine the motivation behind them.
Do they sound like mafia with the motive of going for an easy lynch of a helpless townie? Do they sound like they are a townie genuinely trying to poke and prod to solve the game?

If you are scum, I have a nice and comfy appropriately sized noose <3

[72offsuit]

Hey! Didn't want to be first poster :') this is my very first mafia game of any format- so apologies in advance. I accidentally found myself here after a crazy game was started in the forums of a different game I play.

Why didn't you want to be the first poster?

[72offsuit]

hello Doobietime, welcome! You should get an avatar for your profile when you have a minute, it'll make it easier to remember your posts

VOTE: Iconeum
did you roll scum this time?

'
Wow, fail didnt see this post in my rush to post lol

[72offsuit]

So far iconeum and Doobie have been the only two to not throw out a rvs vote on their first post.

and what do you conclude from this?

Nothing. Yet.

you found the need to call it out but don't conclude anything from it? that's called shading

VOTE: atarashi

Agree. I get a bad vibe from the post. It sounds to me more like Information Instead of Analysis. Like you say, its a just a generic state of play rehash without actually bringing town closer to deciding a lynch.

Worst yet, Atarashi doubles down that they haven't made a conclusion

yet

. As if its some golden nugget that will reap some mysterious rewards later.

I'm jumping on the wagon. I encourage others to do so too.
No ticket required to jump on board this train.
Choo choo choo

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Atarashi

[72offsuit]

lotus would you mind sharing what kind of mafia playing experience you have?

number of games etc

Further Ico's question of lotus, is everyone able to answer the question and a bonus question:

1) What is your experience of forum mafia and mafia in general in other formats?
2) Do you prefer playing as town or as scum?

[72offsuit]

Namely, thanks to 7/2's initial jokevote, Ico's pushed me to -2. Luckily any even halfway competent scum would not pounce on that at the start of D1, so like I don't feel threatened by it at all.

You sound a little threatened by it, lol

I have some other thoughts but I'll let Ico respond first

Agree

[72offsuit]

Agree. I get a bad vibe from the post. It sounds to me more like Information Instead of Analysis. Like you say, its a just a generic state of play rehash without actually bringing town closer to deciding a lynch.

Worst yet, Atarashi doubles down that they haven't made a conclusion yet. As if its some golden nugget that will reap some mysterious rewards later.

Do you have any thoughts about all of Atarashi's subsequent posts? I agree the original post lacks intent (as discussed), but I don't really scumread any of their questions/explanations afterwards.

Couldn't the "yet" also indicate that even though Atarashi doesn't know what to conclude right now, they did genuinely think it was worth posting?

I dont like the yet. I would expect a suggestion like my initial vibe is this is scum indicatice or something to that effect.

In p48 Ata discussess not thinking its worth pressuring.
Its not the not pressuting or not voting but rather the fence sitting.

Its the sort of comment scum can say and that at their convenience later on say "aha, i had a feeling it was a scummy move by player X, i just couldnt place it at the time".

[72offsuit]

Ebwop: "my initial vibe.... "

[72offsuit]

Hey, @72 do you have any experience of playing scum?

In forum mafia, no.
In online fast paced mafia (epicmafia), lots.
Also have experience as evil/ traitor roles in board games: bang! As outlaw, dead of winter as traitor, saboteur: evil dwarf, deception-murder in hong kong as murderer. Never actually l played the card/boardgame werewolf IRL though.

[72offsuit]

I

Am
Mason

Am

Mason
Am
Sunshine
Only
Mason

What's a masom?

Its someone who wasnt worthy of the actual masonhood
Its luke the B team of a main sportsteam.
The wannabes

[72offsuit]

Ebwop: like*
Sry, on mobile

[72offsuit]

At least 52 sounds a lot better.

Lion - I disagree as town I read the games and try to catch up when I can. I didn't post here because of [Redacted] was nearing deadline and needed to catch up with that after a bad night of drinking but was prod dodging as well. Yes bad reasoning but what can we do.

I will say I hate lotus with the oh I was pushed to L-2 and scum wouldn't jump on it this early which just has me ask. Do. You think your wagon is scum driven then? Tiger gets me on that one it's like your sweating a bit over there.

Also. Lotus I disagree as any vote can make pressure regardless of the day or time. Everyone acts differently depending on even the slightest votes.

Get a town vibe here.
In particular the questioning of Lotus on the wagon tjats formed on them and the composition (alignment-wise) of said wagon.

[72offsuit]

I'm having a hard time classifying your reaction. I saw similar behavior in two other games, and both came from the red alignment, but that would contradict the lines of honesty I felt in your text.

Forget what I said about "my presence", it's just my normal tone.

The question is:

why do you show so much resistance to the simple conclusion that Menalque is a mason and is trying to solve the game ? I just need to understand this point correctly to start thinking about it.

Post the photo, or it never happened.

[72offsuit]

Ye, hate these arrogant plays.
Doesn't help town.
VOTE: Menal

[72offsuit]

Crap reads list too

[72offsuit]

I never trade queens

Correct. You trade your queen for opponents' pawn just for the LOLZ.

[72offsuit]

Official Vote Count 1.05

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

Menalque

(2): Iconeum, Elmo TeH AzN

Iconeum

(1): Doobietime

Menalque

(1): Lotus Aura

Atarashi Hajimari

(1): 72offsuit

Not Voting

(4): clidd, WizenedWalrus, Menalque, Atarashi Hajimari

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-15 01:30:00).

Mod notes:

• Menalque replaces GuiltyLion.
  
• WizenedWalrus replaces stormey815, awaiting confirmation.
  
• Iconeum standing V/LA weekends.

I’m impressed that I’m so present in this game that there are two separate wagons on me

Lol. Have to admit, this is pretty funny

[72offsuit]

Hi all,

I've skimmed through the thread, and to be honest I feel pretty lost. I've played a few online mafia/werewolf games at another site, but this is my first game here, and the terminology and abbreviations everyone is using here are foreign to me, so I'll take a while to adjust I imagine.

Looking at the setup notes, it doesn't look like it's possible to have masons and another flavor of power townie in the game at the same time, or am I misunderstanding the table?

Off to a meeting, but will get back to re-reading over lunch.

Lol, I know you are new Walrus, but I have to say this entrance gives me scummy vibes.

For someone who has played mafia elsewhere online, the setup speculation doesn't feel natural to me.
Post 2 from the mod clearly explains the setup that is prefectly unambiguous.

It feels like Walrus is really trying to play the newb card from a scum slot here.

[72offsuit]

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I know this is super early day 1, but this honestly feels like a bus-vote to me.

I'll vote Player X "for the moment" - a vote just for the record, but not for pressure - votes are meant to ramp up pressure on potential scum.
Basically forecasting that your vote has little oomph/intent behind it, gives me a scummy vibe.

[72offsuit]

I posted my reason in #48. A few more questions.

1. Do you think there's something scummy about the way I voted? If so, what?
2. What makes sense, to you, about lotus's points?
3. In converse, what has Ico done that doesn't sit right with you?

You didn't answer my other question, why did you change to no vote before going back to Lotus?

I've read number #48 and the reasoning was thin, but agreeable at the time as we didn't have 300 pieces of information to make sense of.

It's not scummy how you voted but it's inconsistent no matter your alignment, and a single inconsistent stance could become important later in the game.

2) Ico said the only possibility is Menalque is a Mason. That's what Ico said and Lotus is saying that's what Ico said, I'm in agreement with this because its factual.
Next, lotus said how what Ico said made sense (it did) but that it didn't necessarily ring true. I interpreted that to mean that there were other scenarios in which Menalque could be Town and avoid being killed or lynched. Which Ico actually supports by saying on a couple of occasions that they left the door open etc...
Lastly, lotus said that it was a distraction tactic by Ico- this may or may not be the case but it was agreeably (to me at least) hollow.

3) I've made my points about my vote for Ico already. Another contradiction they made was that in post #196, saying that Menalque must be Mason. Why say that if Ico is mason and therefore knows fully well Menalque is not. Why cause confusion by thinking aloud how Menalque -could- in fact be a Mason?

My last point against Ico and this one is stupid really, is that when Ico greeted me they said 'go lynch some scum', how would Ico know that was the aim of my game? It's either an assumption (which I don't like) or was the product of information the rest of us didn't have at the starting point.

I'd say you are over-reading into this, be it as town over-reaching,
or as scum trying to manufacture false scumtells, probably benefit of the doubt and would say this probably isnt actually scummy.

Ico's 'go lynch some scum' feels not too dissimilar to my welcoming post.

@Doobie:
If you thought it was a stupid point, why bring it up?

[72offsuit]

At least 52 sounds a lot better.

Lion - I disagree as town I read the games and try to catch up when I can. I didn't post here because of [Redacted] was nearing deadline and needed to catch up with that after a bad night of drinking but was prod dodging as well. Yes bad reasoning but what can we do.

I will say I hate lotus with the oh I was pushed to L-2 and scum wouldn't jump on it this early which just has me ask. Do. You think your wagon is scum driven then? Tiger gets me on that one it's like your sweating a bit over there.

Also. Lotus I disagree as any vote can make pressure regardless of the day or time. Everyone acts differently depending on even the slightest votes.

Get a town vibe here.
In particular the questioning of Lotus on the wagon tjats formed on them and the composition (alignment-wise) of said wagon.

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I know this is super early day 1, but this honestly feels like a bus-vote to me.

I'll vote Player X "for the moment" - a vote just for the record, but not for pressure - votes are meant to ramp up pressure on potential scum.
Basically forecasting that your vote has little oomph/intent behind it, gives me a scummy vibe.

what happened here 72?

I''m saying if Walrus is scum, which is my current read, then I would hazard a guess that elmo is scum
However, I currently have a town-lean on elmo.

Your question is a valid one and I gives me a townie vibe.

[72offsuit]

Brief

PoE

according to my impression so far:

TRs

--> Ico | Menalque

(BoP)

TL

--> Hajimari | 72offsuit

Unsure

--> Lotus | Doobie | Walrus | Elmo

* I detected some traces of honesty during the conversation with

Elmo

, but nothing so expressive to consider

lock-town

. I believe that her doubt is genuine about the mason claim, as well as her reaction, but I still need a little more certain margin before concluding on such slot.

Lotus

,

Doobie

and

Walrus

need to be better evaluated before I can rate them (even with Lotus being

scummy

recently).

*

Hajimari

and

72offsuit

are

TL

because of their tone, at least as far as I saw.

*

Ico

is a potentially

mason

(if not confirmed), while

Menalque

demonstrates a presence that can be beneficial, but which is subject to his performance, and the time he will spend alive in this game.

* I will continue to operate at a low frequency, focusing on developing some sketches in my notebook. I will be available if anyone needs a second opinion on any matter.

Spoiler:

Find it hard to believe, but I actually agree with Clidd;s readslist for once.

Ye, agree that Mena is unlikely to be scum. Super risky strategy in a Newbie game to pull this sort of gambit. Agree it is basically suicide to trade 1 for 1.

Town-lean: Ico/Clidd/Mena/Elmo
Null: Ata/Doobie
Scum-lean: Walrus/Lotus

[72offsuit]

Riddle me this. Why are we solving this game on day one?

Because shit that cant be undone has occured.

So we move on and pick up the pieces after armageddon and make the best of the situation.

[72offsuit]

A bit more seriously is that Doobie straight up admitted this was her first game ever, and that's pretty cool. Dunno 'bout the rest of ya, but I'm not gonna vote for her during D1 unless she does something super scummy at any point. Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

This actual feels like scum-buddying.

[72offsuit]

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I know this is super early day 1, but this honestly feels like a bus-vote to me.

I'll vote Player X "for the moment" - a vote just for the record, but not for pressure - votes are meant to ramp up pressure on potential scum.
Basically forecasting that your vote has little oomph/intent behind it, gives me a scummy vibe.

why does your head go to bus vote if you have an independent town-lean on Elmo

how do the two play off each other in your mind

I'm not so arrogant to think that I can read people incorrectly.
Its a slight-town lean on elmo based off 1 post, however I'm feeling more confident with Walrus being scum, ergo, if Walrus flips as scum, elmo scum-stocks increase due to the bussy feel of walrus' post.

[72offsuit]

Ye, hate these arrogant plays.
Doesn't help town.
VOTE: Menal

Crap reads list too

What about me being arrogant makes me scum

Why is my readslist crap

also, answer these

Being arrogant doesnt make you scum. I was interested to see reactions to my bandwagon vote on you.

Your reads list is scrap because you have me as scum down the bottom. Enough said.

[72offsuit]

and I mean answer them now, if you disappear and come back in 2 hours with a detailed and thought out answer you're scum claiming

lol?

[72offsuit]

so if your logic is walrus!probscum and therefore Elmo is +scum equity, why is Elmo still in your top town tier as of 344?

Its a slight town-lean. Off 1 post. Independently I think Walrus is scum (35% chance) and Elmo is town (80% chance) at this stage.
The bus vibe is like 10% confidence.

[72offsuit]

how are you coming up with those percentage numbers?

Chance of random other player being scum is 2/8 = 25%. Based on my read on Walrus, his scum-stock goes up to 35%.

Chance of random other player being town is 6/8 = 75%. Based on my read on elmo, her town-stock goes up to 80%.

[72offsuit]

so then why include that comment as you were voting me, seeing as the implication was that a part of your vote on me was a distaste for my "arrogant" play

what are your conclusions from the reactions to your bandwagon vote on me then?

why would having town!you at the bottom of my reads list make it crap? what do you think of the rest of it?

1) Your reaction gave me townie vibes.
Nobody else gave a shit.

Only thing of note was Atarashi posting a reads list following my vote.
Ata gave me a slight town-vibe in earlier posts of the day, just the tone, moreso than content, but forgetting me in the reads list just felt weird, especially after I had just voted for you.

Almost as though !scum-Ata (the scenario whereby Ata rolled scum alignment), was wondering which category it would be convenient for them to lump me in with. And then im just lumped into the null section. Just seems odd to null read someone who has just voted someone.

2) Rest of your reads list is actually pretty reasonable. Disagree with Atarashi as a top tier town read, for reasons stated above.

[72offsuit]

okay, what about everything in 355

Wow your impatient.

[72offsuit]

ebwop: you're* - before the grammar nazis get me

[72offsuit]

I''ts 1:42 am here.
So last call. You have 5 minutes.

[72offsuit]

nah, go sleep, you're good for now, I need to sort other people

I should hope so.

[72offsuit]

And I take back, you aren;t that arrogant. So apologies. I must've been in a shitty mood. If you played the same way every time mafia would get boring. So I don;t mind your play all that much to be honest.

[72offsuit]

Now I''m just rambling. Time to sleep. G'nite

[72offsuit]

WalrusVOTE:

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Walrus

[72offsuit]

I'm sorry guys. I really am. I just had a bombshell hit my life rather two. So sorry in advance.

All good. All the best, hope things turn out alright for you.

[72offsuit]

Atarashi Hajimari

, what is your read on

Doobie

now ?

Random question, does it get tiring color coding literally every post you make? I'd get annoyed with trying to keep it up real fast.

To answer your question though, I still dont really like the slot at all, but I'm admittedly having a bit of trouble getting past the newbie-esque feel to her posts to see if its newb-town or newb-scum. I think it's probably the latter, but I'm more confident that eqsy's slot is scum and, if so, doobie is almost certainly the second scum.

This post sounds genuine to me, I am pretty much in the same boat Re: the slot.
I've had an easier time reading into WAlrus'slot, but finding it hard to get a gauge on doobie.

[72offsuit]

Lel, your partner was good, 72offsuit.

Mafia PT:

Spoiler:

Shoot, Clidd suspects you. He might have tracked you, in which case he knows that you are either a PR or scum. Of all of the "tests" that he gave me, don't you find it odd that his focus would be on my thoughts on your slots replace outs? In his scenario I know that he's a PR, and he's trying to see if based on that whether I think that means your slot is more likely to be PR or scum. There's a reason why he asked that.

Clidd needs to be taken out of the game ASAP.... if you start a wagon on George I will quickhammer him if he gets up to L-1. Clidd is the single greatest threat to both of us. If he did track you and outs that, then your slot would become confirmed scum after both Clidd and Natsu have died.

If we can pull off a George lynch today, then we kill Clidd on night two. Obviously, I will be lynched on day three if I end up quickhammering, but so be it. Then on night three you kill Natsu, assuming we are right about him being TFN. Then on the day four the final three would be {you, Spy, Alora}, and I think that you would have a really good shot at getting Spy to vote for Alora.

If we end up going that route, then I can help you to make a strong case as to why Alora and I are scum together after I flip red. And the only person that you would need to convince of this would be Spy.

Spoiler:

I'm fairly certain that Clidd is going to be deciding who gets lynched today. If he pushes one of us, then whichever one of us that he doesn't push has to bus the other. Hopefully he is genuinely suspicious of Spy; there might be a chance that he ends up leading a push on Spy.

But if he leads a push on one of us and the other fights it, then whichever one of us survives will look bad on day three. If one of us does get run up to L-1, then you or I could fakeclaim jailkeeper. At the very least that might force a massclaim, so we can be 100% certain of the PR situation (even though I think that at this point that we are 99% certain on the PR situation).

But basically, I don't think that either of us can try to take control of the gamestate until Clidd is taken out.

Ye he was good, very helpful.

[72offsuit]

I have more confidence in my read this time.

I still believe my initial impressions about him are valid, but I am deeply uncomfortable by this recent defeat. I need to be absolutely sure that I am on the right track.

I think you should focus more on this present game than on meta. I think i faked meta decently well last time.
Your read is good this time;)

[72offsuit]

I'm having a hard time classifying your reaction. I saw similar behavior in two other games, and both came from the red alignment, but that would contradict the lines of honesty I felt in your text.

Forget what I said about "my presence", it's just my normal tone.

The question is:

why do you show so much resistance to the simple conclusion that Menalque is a mason and is trying to solve the game ? I just need to understand this point correctly to start thinking about it.

Hey Clidd, can you post a link to one of the games you had with elmo that you are referring to here in this post?

[72offsuit]

Honestly I'm not getting a ton of scumvibes from anything major so far, I thought the push on Atarashi was overall worth probing but I don't think Atarashi comes off as scummy in the follow up. 72offsuit came to the wagon a little late and I'm curious to hear their answer to my question but I also don't think they're particularly scummy either.

I'll
VOTE: Elmo the AzN

their RVS comment about me feels awkward considering they voted elsewhere, and it's not clear from 55 whether they're read the thread or not. I think townies are slightly more likely to say whether they have or haven't read anything.

Hm, missed this first time round. Have to agree with this read.
+ Scum points to Elmo here

[72offsuit]

1-for-1ing seems really bad right from the get-go.

This post is actually really bothering me. Just the wording of "seems really bad right now"

1 for 1 ing gives town a guaranteed mafia and is a bad move for mafia. Its great for town. So I don;t understand why Ata has framed it as a negative.

It gives the feeling of a scumslip. It feels like they are in a mafia-frame-of-mind.

[72offsuit]

Actually nah, I take that back.

Lol, oddly enough, this take-backsy feels townie.

+1 appetising apple

(shamelessly stolen off Hectic <3)

[72offsuit]

Spoiler:

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I believe it is strange in a line of intrigue involving

Menalque

and

Ico

, that you see

Elmo

as the primary element of suspicion.

What is your position in relation to the

mason

case ?

I didn't actually say that she was my primary suspect, though she definitely is in the top three. I just feel that seeing who might actually vote for her instead of just voicing suspicions might provide some information.

As for the mason claims, it's a very weird scenario. Seems a pretty extreme thing for a baddie to come out of nowhere with a mason claim early on day 1. I guess there's a

chance

that perhaps Menalque is bold enough to try something crazy with the prepared defense "I'd never do that as a baddie, it's too crazy". I guess. Anything's possible in werewolf/mafia. He's already recanted, and now says he's just a VT trying unorthodox measures. As for Ico, him being bad seems ever more improbable to me -- him being a real mason appears to be the reason he reacted so strongly to Menalque's ruse. I find it hard to believe that a baddie or vanilla townie would react so strongly to a day 1 mason claim, so I'm also a bit suspicious of Doobie & Lotus who've left their vote on Ico even after the claim.

I fully agree with your position on the case about Ico's reaction to the claim. This fits perfectly with the situation which

town!Ico

finds herself threatened by an imposter in her role.

I'd say Walrus is stating the obvious here. NAI post.

[72offsuit]

Both !townWalrus and !scumWalrus would post this

[72offsuit]

@Doobie:
If you thought it was a stupid point, why bring it up?

Because Iconeum's SE status leads me to believe they wouldn't give away their alignment in their first post, but if Ico turns out to be scum, that's exactly what happened. Stupid, because it would be an absolutely horrendous poor play, but still doesn't make what I said incomprehensible.

Sophie

If imscum then i am fakeclaiming

The absolute Optimal play for town power IS to counterclaim and lynh me

The trade IS in town benefit because the town power can effectivelu catch scum this way

I don't understand how you're proven town? I don't know how anything can be proven with not one single action having been taken.

Don't masons have to be extra careful? I mean, it's only a PR until one gets lynched or NK- I'm assuming they can't communicate in a PT after that? Aren't you guaranteed to be killed N1 at the latest after hardclaiming, so the scum can eliminate towns only advantage in a Mason game setup?

I'm not understanding Doobie's insistence here. I don;t really know if its !newb-non-alignment-indicative-Doobie talking here or !scumDoobie.
Still reading Doobie as true neutral null.

[72offsuit]

1-for-1ing seems really bad right from the get-go.

This post is actually really bothering me. Just the wording of "seems really bad right now"

1 for 1 ing gives town a guaranteed mafia and is a bad move for mafia. Its great for town. So I don;t understand why Ata has framed it as a negative.

It gives the feeling of a scumslip. It feels like they are in a mafia-frame-of-mind.

So are you intentionally misquoting me here or did you actually not understand my post?

How am i misquoting?

[72offsuit]

Only thing of note was Atarashi posting a reads list following my vote.
Ata gave me a slight town-vibe in earlier posts of the day, just the tone, moreso than content, but forgetting me in the reads list just felt weird, especially after I had just voted for you.

Almost as though !scum-Ata (the scenario whereby Ata rolled scum alignment), was wondering which category it would be convenient for them to lump me in with. And then im just lumped into the null section. Just seems odd to null read someone who has just voted someone.

What are you even talking about?

My reads list was post 355 (I think), and your vote on mena was, like 224 or something like that. You hadn't really done anything in the game when I posted my list so I forgot you were in the game LOL

Get a slight townie vibe from this post.
The not-knowing the exact post number of their reads list and the reaction feels genuine.

[72offsuit]

Why are we lining up lynches?
And calling a policy lynch?

I'm just trying to understand this logic.

I don't like your attitude of questioning everything we do. It seems like a mindset that is more inclined to emphasize the problem than the solution.

Have to agree with this, does not feel like a pro-town frame of mind.
If Elmo had expressed a specific scum read or stated Clidd's posts were scummy, then it would make sense, but to be instantly disagreeing with someone that one doesnt particularly scumread, seems off.

[72offsuit]

Atarashi Hajimari

, what is your read on

Doobie

now ?

Random question, does it get tiring color coding literally every post you make? I'd get annoyed with trying to keep it up real fast.

To answer your question though, I still dont really like the slot at all, but I'm admittedly having a bit of trouble getting past the newbie-esque feel to her posts to see if its newb-town or newb-scum. I think it's probably the latter, but I'm more confident that eqsy's slot is scum and, if so, doobie is almost certainly the second scum.

Hum, no. I organize myself better with colors.

Maybe

Doobie

needs a second chance. I believe that her vote at

Ico

indicates more confusion than necessarily a biased intention.

Eqsy

, however, seems a good lynch policy.

Are you referring to the no-avi?

[72offsuit]

. No, my vote doesn't work like that. I'll be hammering or putting someone on L-1 today

...why?

To see how the votes would manifest without the influence of my vote.

In our last game, voting early ended up hurting my playstyle in some ways. I plan to fix that now.

Are you referring primarily to Newbie 1986 here or another game?

[72offsuit]

. No, my vote doesn't work like that. I'll be hammering or putting someone on L-1 today

...why?

To see how the votes would manifest without the influence of my vote.

In our last game, voting early ended up hurting my playstyle in some ways. I plan to fix that now.

This post bothers me in so many ways. But it's a play style thing I'm guessing. With not many votes being put and it's a towns biggest asset you want people to sheep behind you and follow your train of thought and put votes down and see how a wagon forms. This just screams scummy like lemme hide under the radar and play town as Puppets.

Why are we lining up lynches?
And calling a policy lynch?

I'm just trying to understand this logic.

I don't like your attitude of questioning everything we do. It seems like a mindset that is more inclined to emphasize the problem than the solution.

Ngl, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. I agree with you on a personal level, but I think this is more of a meta/playstyle difference rather than alignment difference.

If there's anything mafia has taught me. You don't line up lynches. You assess data and reassess data. I'm sorry I'm not one to follow someone blindly like you are already wanting. Personally I think armchair quarterbacking the town is the exact opposite of what we need to do.
VOTE: clidd

I really hate how these two posts work. I'll be hammering or L-1 so your vote does nothing but you would FOS instead. It's almost like you want to coast to the end.

This is scummy. You talk about being bothered by the post, and saying its a play style thing.... so how is this alignment indicative? Why is this a reason to vote for Clidd?

[72offsuit]

I think elmo is town.

Why do you think Elmo is town?

[72offsuit]

Honestly I'm not getting a ton of scumvibes from anything major so far, I thought the push on Atarashi was overall worth probing but I don't think Atarashi comes off as scummy in the follow up. 72offsuit came to the wagon a little late and I'm curious to hear their answer to my question but I also don't think they're particularly scummy either.

I'll
VOTE: Elmo the AzN

their RVS comment about me feels awkward considering they voted elsewhere, and it's not clear from 55 whether they're read the thread or not. I think townies are slightly more likely to say whether they have or haven't read anything.

Hm, missed this first time round. Have to agree with this read.
+ Scum points to Elmo here

It was more a prod dodge then anything...

Overall, I would argue that pro-dodges are possibly slightly mafia-leaning
But aside from that I would argue that there is a townie prod dodge and a mafia prod-dodge.
Yours seemed like a mafia-esque prod dodge, if thats what in fact it was.

[72offsuit]

How am i misquoting?

I mean, let's just look at my full post.

VOTE: mena

Even if ico is lying, 1-for-1ing seems really bad right from the get-go.

1. In a very literal sense, the wording I used was not "seems bad

right now

", hence a misquote.
2. My post is saying that Ico is probably telling the truth about his CC of mena (going back to the mason bit) so we should lynch mena. Even if he was lying, we'd just lynch Ico when mena flipped green and then itd work out anyway. In what way is this negative to town? If it isn't, then how does my phrasing make it seem like a negative?

It's a rhetorical question, btw.

OK fair enough. Maybe im over-reading here. Which I feel I am given I've been getting townie vibes off you recently

[72offsuit]

@72off

Who do you think should be the lynch today and why?

Right now, my gut is screaming Walrus. More analytically, Elmo or Lotus/Lootz.

[72offsuit]

Organising them up in a firing line, I would gladly have all 3 go down.

[72offsuit]

In the hypothetical situation, if we were at the end of today and I had the hammer and could choose between the 3, I would go for Walrus.

[72offsuit]

Spoiler:

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

I believe it is strange in a line of intrigue involving

Menalque

and

Ico

, that you see

Elmo

as the primary element of suspicion.

What is your position in relation to the

mason

case ?

I didn't actually say that she was my primary suspect, though she definitely is in the top three. I just feel that seeing who might actually vote for her instead of just voicing suspicions might provide some information.

As for the mason claims, it's a very weird scenario. Seems a pretty extreme thing for a baddie to come out of nowhere with a mason claim early on day 1. I guess there's a

chance

that perhaps Menalque is bold enough to try something crazy with the prepared defense "I'd never do that as a baddie, it's too crazy". I guess. Anything's possible in werewolf/mafia. He's already recanted, and now says he's just a VT trying unorthodox measures. As for Ico, him being bad seems ever more improbable to me -- him being a real mason appears to be the reason he reacted so strongly to Menalque's ruse. I find it hard to believe that a baddie or vanilla townie would react so strongly to a day 1 mason claim, so I'm also a bit suspicious of Doobie & Lotus who've left their vote on Ico even after the claim.

I fully agree with your position on the case about Ico's reaction to the claim. This fits perfectly with the situation which

town!Ico

finds herself threatened by an imposter in her role.

I'd say Walrus is stating the obvious here. NAI post.

Both !townWalrus and !scumWalrus would post this

Hum, ok. It does not change my agreement with him.

I agree with him too. Just saying, its stating the obvious, it sounded like you thought it was a pro-town post, and I'm just seeing it as NAI.

[72offsuit]

[quote="In post 519, clidd"]@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

Game 1) I didn;t cooperate with you because I thought you were likely to be scum. You basically self-declared yourself as near-confirmed town and were arrogant about it. You didn't wagon GW day one, you were on the PKP lynch day one which was an absolute joke, given he was not scummy AT ALL. I then proceeded to vote for you.

Game 2) I was scum. My 'being difficult' served 2 birds with one stone: I furthered my scum goals AND was faking/replicating a "being difficult/noncooperative' meta to get you to read me as town.

Rest of the questions I will continue at lunch. gtg

[72offsuit]

Hey, @72 do you have any experience of playing scum?

Given the game is completed, I can now properly answer this question:

Yes, I've been scum once now on forum mafia, here:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=82166

[72offsuit]

1 TBC... And this game so far I read you more as being town.

2. I have a townlean on you. I haven;t ruled you out as being mafia, you could most definitely be scum, I just don't see any scum-indicative behaviour so far.

3. I want to pressure Walrus more. There are still 4 days of D1. He is lurking and the posts he has posted don't give me the impression of a townie scum-hunting.

4. I don;t see how you asking me this and me responding to this is pro-town. If you or anyone else can explain and convince me of the benefit of this question, then I'll answer.

5. In the hypothetical scenario that Menal is mason:

Lotus/esqy - most probable, given post 213, where they say they believe the claim

NOT Ico - I doubt ico would have agreed to this plan and the response from ico was quite emphatic, felt like genuine frustration to mena's claim.
NOT Elmo - due to post 168 where she calls it a bad claim and because mena scumreads her
NOT me - because mena scum-read me

6. D1 strategy is to lynch the townie that I could most effectively paint as being scummy that looks like genuine scumhunting.

7. If Ata is scum, current read would be probably within {Clidd, Elmo, Walrus or Doobie} - middle tiers in reads list

8. I'd probably tentatively guess that its vanilla townie vs vanilla townie claiming masons
Depends on the night kill, depends on what my exact PR role was and what result i got from my night action.
If I had a guilty-ish/mafia-indicative report, I would allow for some scumhunting by town to proceed, see what evolves out of the mason claim situation if nethier claim died, and then out it towards the middle of the day: to allow for scumhunting early on, but to also allow enough time at the end of day for discussion of the report, my claim, and planning for the days ahead.

[72offsuit]

Wow, this game is literally 1987 on repeat.

[72offsuit]

328

I concur, it's unlikely, but not impossible. I said the same thing earlier in the thread about it coming across as TvT. But it's easy to play town when there is nothing to really substantiate an argument either way .

There's not that much (that's concrete) to be taken from what's been written so far, imo. Maybe it was all towns which were having a battle of wills earlier, everybody came across well meaning so I was looking for logical flaws instead.

Let me spell it out for you.
There is a mason claim (menal). There is a counterclaim to this (mine). Menal is lying. Then Menal backs down and says he was in fact lying.

From this you conclude that I must be scum and menal is probably town. This is not a town mindset from you. Not at all. You got caught in a bad spot and are having trouble positioning yourself based on a bad read from you.

Brief

PoE

according to my impression so far:

TRs

--> Ico | Menalque

(BoP)

TL

--> Hajimari | 72offsuit

Unsure

--> Lotus | Doobie | Walrus | Elmo

* I detected some traces of honesty during the conversation with

Elmo

, but nothing so expressive to consider

lock-town

. I believe that her doubt is genuine about the mason claim, as well as her reaction, but I still need a little more certain margin before concluding on such slot.

Lotus

,

Doobie

and

Walrus

need to be better evaluated before I can rate them (even with Lotus being

scummy

recently).

*

Hajimari

and

72offsuit

are

TL

because of their tone, at least as far as I saw.

*

Ico

is a potentially

mason

(if not confirmed), while

Menalque

demonstrates a presence that can be beneficial, but which is subject to his performance, and the time he will spend alive in this game.

* I will continue to operate at a low frequency, focusing on developing some sketches in my notebook. I will be available if anyone needs a second opinion on any matter.

Spoiler:

Find it hard to believe, but I actually agree with Clidd;s readslist for once.

Ye, agree that Mena is unlikely to be scum. Super risky strategy in a Newbie game to pull this sort of gambit. Agree it is basically suicide to trade 1 for 1.

Town-lean: Ico/Clidd/Mena/Elmo
Null: Ata/Doobie
Scum-lean: Walrus/Lotus

This doesn' feel genuine at all. There's a huge event (the claim and counterclaim), and from this you conclude a 'lean'? In what world is this not simply hard scum or hard town? I've not cased 72 yet, but i'm getting them scummmmmy vibes from this slot.

I'm confused by the multiple reactions to my continued vote on Ico, especially as it's been spelled out for me that it's not outside the realms of possibility. It's the best I have, guys!

I'm still reading everybody, including Menalque. It would be stupid not to. But I'm leaning towards him being Town for now, mostly because of his entrance- the aforementioned arrogance, the fact he said he plays for fun. This makes me feel like he dropped the mason bomb just to see how it would play out, I don't see him doing so without contingency plans in place for different reactions though. I can see ways he could be scum too. Tbh I haven't even ruled out that he might really be a Mason and there's stuff going on behind the scenes we aren't seeing. I have too many theories and not enough data to start narrowing them down.

I've got brainache, if I get lynched I'm going to have to put off starting a new game so I can lurk and keep up with what's happening :')

So you townread a faked claim, that drew out actual town power. And are scumreading the town power that counterclaimed the faker. How is this genuine? You are turning and twisting and sitting the fence wrt to all of the claim shenanigans but fail to take an actual stance. Heavily scum indicative.

IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER PR CLAIMS! COME OUT IMMEDIATLY AND CC THE MASON! If we have another PR claim the Mason is fake. Or if the PR cc is fake as both Masons' comfirm each other.

Holy shit can we lynch this scum-butt already?

Actually, this is the absolute optimal play for other town power to make. Town power is designated to catch scum, and if they counterclaim they literally achieve their mission. It's a SOLID trade. I don't read this as scum at all.

Eqsy, Doobie, 72off, Walrus


Both scum are probably in this list.

Strong list, and you get my +1

Lynching in doobie/72off is my opinion.

1. What scum motivation would i have for "townleaning" you itstead of "townreading" you
Actually stop and check yourself for a second, and actually ask yourself the question.
Do you think that! ScumMe is planning to shade you and then lynch you Tomorrow or what?
Correct, i dont have any strong reads either way because im town.

2. Re: Doobie im still unsure either way.

3. Lootz' post 409 is not townmotivated.

Yes 1 scum for 1 PR is an excellent trade. NOOONE is disputing this obvious fact.

Like we have already discussed ad nauseum, scum claiming mason is very unlikely. Asking for any existing PRs to CC if they exist is just a ridiculous statement imo.
The odds of a PR existing is like 2 percent.

Post 409 is the sort of post that is trying to appear town. Its LAMISTY which is one reason why its scummy.
Secondly its dealing with the unlikely rather than the probable.

Its basically the epitome of the wiki when you look up:

Balancing Possibilities Versus Probabilities

So i think your Lootz read is off.

I think we should lynch Lootz.

[72offsuit]

Im not getting any scummy vibes off Walrus, though like zero pressure was applied. Can go back to null for the time being

[72offsuit]

nah, go sleep, you're good for now, I need to sort other people

72 is a good lynch, but idk about the partner

I was thinking Elmo earlier but they kind of seemed town in some of their stuff?

and their push on walrus makes me think it's not walrus, also I don't particularly read walrus as anything yet

This bothers me. Prior to the afk you basically grill me with questions. Then you conclude with, " im going to sort other slots out" ... Which you dont really do and then you return and basically just say "ye 72 is a good lynch".

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Esqy

[72offsuit]

EsqyLootz is at -2

[72offsuit]

Ebwop: L-2

[72offsuit]

UNVOTE: Unvote

FoS: esqy

[72offsuit]

UNVOTE: Unvote

FoS: esqy

Why unvote?

I have my reasons. I'll keep to myself for now.

[72offsuit]

Current lynch priority is Eqsy -> 72off/doobie, Walrus

You earlier say that probs both scum are in these 4.
So who are the scum partners in these 4?

[72offsuit]

Eqsy, Doobie, 72off, Walrus


Both scum are probably in this list.

Here was your post.

[72offsuit]

I am imagining that, considering that you know the process by which I formulate my

TLs

, you could emulate a behavior that I expect from a

town!72

. In the last game,

scum!72

used the same reaction as

town!you

before I hammered in the other game, that you were town, and took advantage of my empathy to sow doubt in my decisions..

Ok sure. But whats your updated take on the other 7 players.

[72offsuit]

72 is a good lynch, but idk about the partner

I was thinking Elmo earlier but they kind of seemed town in some of their stuff?

and their push on walrus makes me think it's not walrus, also I don't particularly read walrus as anything yet

The reason you can't fome up with a narrative that makes sense as a scum partner is because i am town.

[72offsuit]

nobody is interested in my doobie case

and i did agree with the last or so post 72off made, which makes me vote lootz (ok lynch, if this is scum then i will no longer wrongly scumread 72off, if that flips town then 72off can be the next lynch)

I don't really understand this. You say you agree with my read on esqy, but if esqy flips town then you want me lynched tomorrow, despite others making cases against esqy.

[72offsuit]

nobody is interested in my doobie case

and i did agree with the last or so post 72off made, which makes me vote lootz (ok lynch, if this is scum then i will no longer wrongly scumread 72off, if that flips town then 72off can be the next lynch)

It's not that I'm not interested, its that I dont see them being particularly scummy, unlike Lootz.
Most of my games to date at least 1 scum has been in the null-reads-area.

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Esqy

L-1

Do NOT hammer Esqy until Esqy has reported in. Otherwise you are claiming scum.

[72offsuit]

scumpile/lynchpile in no particular order doobie/72off/lotus slot

and it's not that i never wanted to push/lynch the lotus slot

my vote is more usefull there right now

Right.

[72offsuit]

Updated VC:

EqsyLootz (4): Atarashi Hajimari, WizenedWalrus, Iconeum, 72offsuit
Iconeum (1): Doobietime
clidd (1): Elmo TeH AzN

Not Voting (4): clidd, Menalque, EqsyLootz,

[72offsuit]

EBWOP Updated VC:

EqsyLootz (4): Atarashi Hajimari, WizenedWalrus, Iconeum, 72offsuit
Iconeum (1): Doobietime
clidd (1): Elmo TeH AzN

Not Voting (3): clidd, Menalque, EqsyLootz

[72offsuit]

The lack of a counter-wagon is odd. I guess with esqy not voting it reduces the ability of a counter-wagon. I really hope this is a town-block game. If clidd/ata are scum then we were screwed anyway with the whacky start to this game

[72offsuit]

Official Vote Count 1.16

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

EqsyLootz

(3): Atarashi Hajimari, WizenedWalrus, 72offsuit

clidd

(1): Elmo TeH AzN

Not Voting

(5): clidd, Menalque, EqsyLootz, 72offsuit, Iconeum, Doobietime

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-15 01:30:00).

Mod notes:

• Iconeum standing V/LA weekends.
  
• WizenedWalrus standing V/LA weekends.
  
• Elmo TeH AzN V/LA until Tuesday/Wednesday.
  
• Menalque V/LA until Sunday.

I'm simultaneously Voting and Not Voting :O

[72offsuit]

@ Datisi - please remove me from the "not voting" list

Fixed, thank you. - D

[72offsuit]

So in the event eqsy flips green we lynch Elmo 10/10 times right?

Town logic is great sometimes. Because I'm saving the mod some effort you want to policy? This game.

No. You want to lynch a slot before it has the chance to post. That's scummy. Period.

Yep. If this slot is town, at the bare minimum we at least get some dying FoSes or some decent town or scum reads that others have missed.
If the slot is scum then no harm done.

[72offsuit]

Hello, you wanted this slot to post?

I've given everything a read over and I'm kinda lost. Jeez, you people post a LOT.

I'll have a look at things soon, but I'd love it if no-one quickhammers me while I have some lunch and a bath and I'll come back and have a proper look to get a read on people.

Ok, noone is going to quickhammer you.

[72offsuit]

Maybe I want the game to move at a reasonable pace and am just tired of replacements? Its a bit much to have one spot be replaced 3x. Hate to tell you this.

I guess it's reasonable to feel a level of frustration at that. This is the first time I've played in a game with replacements. It's.... different.

So you've played before? Is this an alternate account?

[72offsuit]

Player by player:

Jormengand: Absolutely positively the worst.
Doobietime: Seems to be trying to cover bases in a very unusual way, and the thing where she FoSed a counterclaim, got an entire explanation of why that's a bad idea and then went... "Yeah okay sure I can't convince you", I dunno, that seems potentially suspicious.
Clidd: No real read so town on balance of probabilities, probably. If mafia, doing a good job of pretending not to be.
72: In general, I don't like people going "Aha, I have reasons but I'm not gonna tell you!" like in #565, but I know that's in a lot of people's townrange. There's nothing really suspicious about him, but nothing massively exonerating either.
Atarashi: Some decent analysis that makes me want to lean town, but I'm not sure. While I'm not happy that they've been spending a decent amount of time pointing at people who are now me, I'm not certain I can blame them, so I probably lean town on them.
WizenedWalrus: Hasn't had a great deal of chance to post but has been scumhunting a decent bit. Maybe a little eager to jump on people given a chance? Probably town but I'm not certain.
Elmo: A lot of her early reasoning seems to make more sense in context, but I don't totally appreciate someone trying to kill me before I even get a chance to speak.
Menalque: I know that there

exist

town players who make gambits like that, but unfortunately, I don't know Menalque enough to know if he would do that as town but I suspect the answer is "No". Unless he's known for making that kind of gambit?
Iconeum: Conversely, I don't think it would make the CC as mafia. Reads as town to me. I can sorta see the arguments against, but I don't really.

OK. So i can see you have a few town leans in there, but not really any specific scumleans.
In the

hypothetical situation

of you having the hammer right at this moment, who would you lynch?

[72offsuit]

Doubt that 72 and walrus are scum together

So you see me and clidd being scum together?

[72offsuit]

and yeah my doobie case stands:

you claim mason and I counterclaim you: doobie townreads you for the fake claim and scumreads me on the counterclaim

i don't like it

I think you dislike it because (1) it’s very out there and (2) it’s aimed at you and that’s affecting your judgement

I don’t think scum think they’re getting a lynch on either of us and I don’t think a new new player tries that

@Icon
I agree with menal's statement that 'its affecting your judgement as it's aimed at you'
You seem to overly strongly scumread Doobie. I'm not getting townvibes from the slot, feels like a null-scumlean, but it does not feel like the scummiest slot.

I'm not getting any good vibes of jorge to change my mind on that slot.

[72offsuit]

I won't lie I've paid little attention to this game.
Doobie isn't this your first mafia game?

This feels like scum with a noobie scum partner.

[72offsuit]

Elmo doobie Icon town

??

Ok, SL on Menalque.

Ye, I'm starting to get worse vibes off menal, insisting that I'm scum and townreading elmo and doobie.
If menal is scum, he is probs teamed with Elmo or doobie.

[72offsuit]

Still prefer Jorgen first, then elmo as the lynches if I had the choice.

[72offsuit]

and yeah my doobie case stands:

you claim mason and I counterclaim you: doobie townreads you for the fake claim and scumreads me on the counterclaim

i don't like it

I think you dislike it because (1) it’s very out there and (2) it’s aimed at you and that’s affecting your judgement

I don’t think scum think they’re getting a lynch on either of us and I don’t think a new new player tries that

@Icon
I agree with menal's statement that 'its affecting your judgement as it's aimed at you'
You seem to overly strongly scumread Doobie. I'm not getting townvibes from the slot, feels like a null-scumlean, but it does not feel like the scummiest slot.

I'm not getting any good vibes of jorge to change my mind on that slot.

How is it null and scumlean at the same time ?

On a scale of 0 is towniest of town and 1000 is scummiest of scum, doobie is sitting at like 505.

[72offsuit]

Doubt that 72 and walrus are scum together

I agree.

I call him scum based off gut earlier when like noone was scumreading him, so his lynch had like 1% chance of going through.
I then proceed to say that he can go back to null as his responses seemed reasonable.
He seems to have a null read on me.
@ Menal, Clidd: Why do you both say this from your points of view?

[72offsuit]

Elmo doobie Icon town

??

Ok, SL on Menalque.

Ye, I'm starting to get worse vibes off menal, insisting that I'm scum and townreading elmo and doobie.
If menal is scum, he is probs teamed with Elmo or doobie.

Maybe town!Mena is not having good reads this game, but scum!Mena would explain why he did that CC. I was townreading him before these recent reads came out.

Yeah.

[72offsuit]

I was talking about the lynch for today, not necessarily a lynch order for d1, d2.
Obv lynch for tomorrow would depend on the lynch flip and the night kill tonight

Why do you say the 2 are unlikely to be scum together?

[72offsuit]

Still prefer Jorgen first, then elmo as the lynches if I had the choice.

I don't do anymore preflip associations, but if I had, Jorgen flipping scum makes Elmo unlikely to be scum.

Ye, not overly keen on the preflip associations, gives mafia info on who is a good night kill, and half the time the asssociations go to shit depending on the lynch flip and who the night kill is anyway.
I find they are a distraction a lot of the time too.

[72offsuit]

Given we are in a game-solve-on day-one kind of game, I guess we kind of have to

[72offsuit]

Doubt that 72 and walrus are scum together

I agree.

I call him scum based off gut earlier when like noone was scumreading him, so his lynch had like 1% chance of going through.
I then proceed to say that he can go back to null as his responses seemed reasonable.
He seems to have a null read on me.
@ Menal, Clidd: Why do you both say this from your points of view?

Can you answer this Clidd if your still here

[72offsuit]

you're * before the grammar nazis get me

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Doobie

[72offsuit]

Bussing in a mason game and then killing the non clear?
My pride is wounded that some of you think im scum.

[72offsuit]

VOTE: doobie because, as I said yesterday, if that slot flipped red then doobie is probably the partner.

That being said, when I'm not tired as shit, I'm going back over mona's posts. I'm paranoid.

To be honest id be very suspect of mena had it not been for clidd being night killed.

I know night kill speculation is pretty wifomy, but i just do not see an experienced player not killing ico.

Its 2 newbie scum, so ye doobie fits

[72offsuit]

Well, 1 newbie scum

[72offsuit]

Case for doobie definitely looking stronger now.

72 has seemed somewhat suspect with his reactions to menal's play.

I still have a lot of doubt about elmo though. Reading back, I see a lot of overreactions that just seem scummy to me.

Suspect HOW?
Which post / posts?

[72offsuit]

If its not doobie, then its elmo.
Zero town cred for hammering when clidd was also going to hammer.
Furthermore was going to deny us the replacement through threatening with a quickhammer on esqylootz, which would have denied us scums fake dying FoS list.

[72offsuit]

Yoink

[72offsuit]

Im hammering

Vote: doobie

[72offsuit]

doobie

72

Elmo

walrus

CAGE FIGHT GO

LOL.
This just made my day

[72offsuit]

Doobie was scummy as so i hammered so we wouldnt waver

[72offsuit]

Noob scum therefore not Ata nor Mena who were town reads anyway. Walrus was on the wagon early so id guess he is probs town.

So yeah, i still think its Doobie or Elmo. Z where is Datisi..

[72offsuit]

Just going to call this like I do every game. Lists are worthless. This is turning into WIFOM from Mena.
Every post is looking worse then the last. Fake claim or not. I don't like it nor the reasoning
VOTE: Menal

The only gain to claim is protect the actual masons.

- Elmo voted mena earlier like I did, but never actually stated if she had a town or scum read on mena, now is saying scum is in

- Elmo voted for clidd who was very unlikely to be scum

- Elmo was not on the Esqy wagon till it was obvious Esqy was going to be lynched.

- Elmo still hasn;t committed to who she thinks is most likely to be scum

If Doobie is town, then I'm pretty sure Elmo is the last scum.

[72offsuit]

omg I'm a dumbass, the L-1 vote was 72. So he trolled me real good.

It's not a troll, it's a reaction test. You aren't meant to out it.

[72offsuit]

the reaction test was gone once the vote count was posted tbh

Ye i know, im just giving advice to Ata.

[72offsuit]

can you guys fight and talk about the important bits like how Elmo kept pushing that lynch/hammer but people like me were giving him crap over it?

You know. I'd refer you to something but I can't at the moment in why I pushed for that lynch. And would have 100/100 times in any other game.

Which lynch?

[72offsuit]

Right now I don't know what to think. This game just took a turn.

what turn?

The real turn is apparently Doobie wasn't hammered????

omg I'm a dumbass, the L-1 vote was 72. So he trolled me real good.

I think the whole thread got trolled but you know this is mafia.

Pedit: wanna tunnel me harder?
Menal is obv town it hurts.
2. I tend to move my votes around a lot and I did it because the man claimed to never put a vote down.
3. I wanted a free weekend of mafia. Glad to know thats how this works and deadline.
4. Oh honey. That's you after this gambit.

Because you just lining up them lynches now arent you?
VOTE: 72
Once again the game of gambits.

Worst-scumtells-ever-award goes to Elmo....... Come on down........

1. Why did you wait to out your read on mena until now that everyone else has basically town read mena?
2. Why do you "tend to move your votes around"?
3. Deadline is in 6 days.
4. Are you saying me doing a reaction test is scummy?

[72offsuit]

so who in the cage fight is scum exactly for you?

Walrus just joined the wagon early.
72 trying to get town cred now?
This wagon came way too quick for my liking honestly. It's almost as if we had a cop. And then you are telling me that scum never join wagons quickly for town credit.

So you have completely disregarded Doobie? You think Doobie is town?

[72offsuit]

The whoever had been replaced 3x in the end. This shows how much attention to that slot. After the first and second replacement I'm really shocked they were filled so quickly. But it just turns into saving the mod time to die a replacement because it's annoying as fuck. To always be replacing someone.

1. Why waste time on a town consensus?

2. Why not what else am I going to do with it?

3. Exactly and you pull a reaction test in less then 24 hrs into it.

4. I'm saying it's trying to get towncred since you are pretty low on a lot of lists dear.

1. You sound like you are hard-claiming scum here.
2. Actually put pressure on the most scummy slot. Which definitely wasn't clidd.
3. And your conclusion/analysis of this is?
4. Probably the only thing that you have said in these posts that makes any sense from a townie's point of view.

[72offsuit]

Im hammering

Vote: doobie

Uhhh.....you fucking what?

72 you better pray that Doobie flips red or you're so getting lynched tomorrow.

Your reaction is genuine and makes no impression of Doobie's alignment as you make no implication as to whether there is a tomorrow or not.

[72offsuit]

If its not doobie, then its elmo.
Zero town cred for hammering when clidd was also going to hammer.
Furthermore was going to deny us the replacement through threatening with a quickhammer on esqylootz, which would have denied us scums fake dying FoS list.

Hi pot. I'm now a kettle.
Someone explain what just happened? This game went less then 24 hrs and we had a hammer. Lolwut

You give half the thread an opportunity to not reply. And yeah it's a hammer.

This reaction is scummy. I read Elmo as genuinely thinking I had hammered.
Elmo instantly goes into accuse-72-mode for hammering, as if she knows there will be a tomorrow.

[72offsuit]

I've disregarded no one with the exception of Menal. This game has just been very weird looking at it from it nk to the claims to just where we stand now.
It's paper tossing

You think I might be scum?

The whoever had been replaced 3x in the end. This shows how much attention to that slot. After the first and second replacement I'm really shocked they were filled so quickly. But it just turns into saving the mod time to die a replacement because it's annoying as fuck. To always be replacing someone.

1. Why waste time on a town consensus?

2. Why not what else am I going to do with it?

3. Exactly and you pull a reaction test in less then 24 hrs into it.

4. I'm saying it's trying to get towncred since you are pretty low on a lot of lists dear.

1. You sound like you are hard-claiming scum here.
2. Actually put pressure on the most scummy slot. Which definitely wasn't clidd.
3. And your conclusion/analysis of this is?
4. Probably the only thing that you have said in these posts that makes any sense from a townie's point of view.

How come you have such a strong scumread on the 1 slot who was hell-bent on lynching the scum yesterday before anyone else?

Do you think Elmo bussed THAT hard on day 1 in a newbie?

Seriously? -_- I had a scumread on Elmo yesterday and more scummy posts today.
Elmo's reaction to the fake-hammer sucks
Elmo was the last actual vote on the wagon and besides, newbies love to bus.
Elmo is newbie so the clidd kill makes sense given the play is (-)EV

Doobie is also newbie so Clidd kill also makes sense given the play is (-)EV
Hasn't done anything super scummy, but doesnt seem pro-town.

Walrus was early on the wagon, and of the 3 seems the least likely to have killed a non-clear.

I don;t think it matters really which of 2 we lynch, unless walrus has played it very well.

[72offsuit]

1. You sound like you are hard-claiming scum here.
2. Actually put pressure on the most scummy slot. Which definitely wasn't clidd.
3. And your conclusion/analysis of this is?
4. Probably the only thing that you have said in these posts that makes any sense from a townie's point of view.

1. You know I get this a lot. And I think you should look into the mirror more.

2 So your good with someone holding their vote for no reason then? And not wanting to vote on anyone? Sorry chief. That's not my style. We play different styles.

3. Another gambit of this thread. The fact that you have to tunnel me now reminds me of old scum metas.

4. Have you ever replaced into a slot that just gets lynched before? I've done it quite a few times.


1. LOL, what does this even mean?
2. Putting words in my mouth, lol. Show me where I said "holding your vote for no reason is good"
3. You're one of 2 slots that are most probably scum. And you have been scummy as today.

Contradiction. You weren;t waiting on a GG flip. You started accusing me of being scum for quick-hammering.
Your statement does not compute.

[72offsuit]

Hm, the quote box for Elmo disappeared in above post.

[72offsuit]

72 I think you're tunneling a bit too hard here.

Doobie is still the smart lynch today. That's going to happen regardless. Let's not get so distracted that she can skate by and get off the chopping block.

Whatever. I'm still playing the game. I still want to see if i picked right out of these 2.

[72offsuit]

72 I think you're tunneling a bit too hard here.

Doobie is still the smart lynch today. That's going to happen regardless. Let's not get so distracted that she can skate by and get off the chopping block.

I know. That's why my vote is still on doobie.

[72offsuit]

I've disregarded no one with the exception of Menal. This game has just been very weird looking at it from it nk to the claims to just where we stand now.
It's paper tossing

It doesnt make sense then, as to why did you not mention doobie at all when asked about the players put in the cage

[72offsuit]

I'mma be pretty happy with myself if I called out both scum within the start of D1.

Yep, i correctly voted scum day 1 rather than voting on the wagon on a townie, then pegged both scum early day 2, and then i got lynched straigjt after that, lol.

I felt really vindicated post game. It felt good

[72offsuit]

I'mma be pretty happy with myself if I called out both scum within the start of D1.

Yep, i correctly voted scum day 1 rather than voting on the wagon on a townie, then pegged both scum early day 2, and then i got lynched straigjt after that, lol.

I felt really vindicated post game. It felt good

[72offsuit]

In game 1987

[72offsuit]

@ 72offsuit

1.

I believe you don't like me at all, regardless of the alignment you are in. Why did you appear to be more open in post 344, considering that only our reads are similar? why are you being more receptive to me when in the other two games you were totally against my considerations?

2.

Why did you never consider the possibility of me being a scum?

3.

Why do you prefer Walrus over Eqsy as a primary option for lynch?

4.

What would your guess be if you had to speculate who the second mason is?

5.

If Menalque happened to be scum in a hypothetical scenario, who do you think would be most likely to be his partner?

6.

Imagine that you are scum in this game, what would be your D1 strategy?

7.

What would be the possible partner if Hajimari were a scum?

8.

Last question: consider that you are PR in this game, but suddenly you noticed that Menalque and Ico claimed mason. You are, of course, not a mason, but you chose not to reveal yourself to the public. You believe that hiding may be beneficial in a way. Considering that your strategy was not to hold the CC today, what would be your course of action tomorrow?

[/b]

1 TBC... And this game so far I read you more as being town.

2. I have a townlean on you. I haven;t ruled you out as being mafia, you could most definitely be scum, I just don't see any scum-indicative behaviour so far.

3. I want to pressure Walrus more. There are still 4 days of D1. He is lurking and the posts he has posted don't give me the impression of a townie scum-hunting.

4. I don;t see how you asking me this and me responding to this is pro-town. If you or anyone else can explain and convince me of the benefit of this question, then I'll answer.

5. In the hypothetical scenario that Menal is mason:

Lotus/esqy - most probable, given post 213, where they say they believe the claim

NOT Ico - I doubt ico would have agreed to this plan and the response from ico was quite emphatic, felt like genuine frustration to mena's claim.
NOT Elmo - due to post 168 where she calls it a bad claim and because mena scumreads her
NOT me - because mena scum-read me

6. D1 strategy is to lynch the townie that I could most effectively paint as being scummy that looks like genuine scumhunting.

7. If Ata is scum, current read would be probably within {Clidd, Elmo, Walrus or Doobie} - middle tiers in reads list

8. I'd probably tentatively guess that its vanilla townie vs vanilla townie claiming masons
Depends on the night kill, depends on what my exact PR role was and what result i got from my night action.
If I had a guilty-ish/mafia-indicative report, I would allow for some scumhunting by town to proceed, see what evolves out of the mason claim situation if nethier claim died, and then out it towards the middle of the day: to allow for scumhunting early on, but to also allow enough time at the end of day for discussion of the report, my claim, and planning for the days ahead.

[/b]

IF doobie is town, ya'll should probably lynch 72 next I think.

This exchange feels like it might have felt to 72off that Clidd was a power role playing on menal and my claims. 72's answer makes me feel this way.

Whatever. You are barking up the wrong tree. Regardless, that actually is mean. Its like you are penalising me for playing well as scum last game.

Clidd was in that game with me and has said that im town this game, so you saying this makes no sense.

[72offsuit]

He asked me a question and i answered it.

[72offsuit]

I've disregarded no one with the exception of Menal. This game has just been very weird looking at it from it nk to the claims to just where we stand now.
It's paper tossing

It doesnt make sense then, as to why did you not mention doobie at all when asked about the players put in the cage

Have they chimed in yet? No.

Im not asking about doobie reaction or chiming in.

I asked you who was scum and you DIDNT EVEN MENTION DOOBIE

[72offsuit]

I asked you who was scum and you DIDNT EVEN MENTION DOOBIE

do you realize it was Elmo who kept insisting on hammering the scum previous day, and then did so?

So what?

[72offsuit]

I asked you who was scum and you DIDNT EVEN MENTION DOOBIE

do you realize it was Elmo who kept insisting on hammering the scum previous day, and then did so?

Clidd was alrdy going to hammer anyway.

I think ive confused myself though. Elmo has a Join date of 2011, mustve confused game experience with another slot.
It probs is doobie.

[72offsuit]

Unvote

[72offsuit]

Hi,

I have coronavirus and feel absolutely awful. Not sure how to proceed, think it's best that you replace/lynch me. Guessing lynch because we know Elmo doesn't like to let a replacement enter a scummy slot.

Genuinely am a VT (just like scum would say) so prepare to be perplexed. My bad.

Sorry if I actually offended you, Iconeum. I'll be a 15 on the scale, though, if you flip red.

Really sad to leave but it's the best for the game I think. Sorry. You guys are great, I've learnt a lot. Probably going to behave the same way when I feel better and join a new game though, so feel free to steer clear.

Sorry to hear that. Rest up, hope you feel better soon

[72offsuit]

Hey Elmo, can you please post up your last scum game?

[72offsuit]

@ Ico: I feel like you are trying to make this into a hard game.
When you hear hoofs/hooves, think horses not zebras. Occum's razor - more or less, "the simplest solution is most likely the right one"
The clear mason is not chosen as the nightill therefore its noob scum. I really don't know why you are going on tangents and talking about Clidd when Clidd called me town and knows my meta.

[72offsuit]

BP meta:

Newbie 1621: Kitchen Chaos
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62311

BP was pretty jokey throughout: Just the first handful of posts included:

''Unvote whoever. ''

''I'll get started on reading. I mean reading you guys. Brace thyselves.''

''Ugh, Angry Frog's gameplay. In my slot's name I do apologize Anyways, quickreading this is what really stuck to me.''

''Jesus Christ, page 6 gave me a fright. You were seriously going to lynch Vedith? Nheh, I read him as town. I know getting info from the lynch is often a good idea, but I seriously read him as town. The fearlessness mainly gives me that vibe.''

This last post ín that game pretty much fels like it echoes his "'Page 13 and WTF" post in this game

Town game:
Mini 1696: SPACE DANDY MAFIA
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=62603

Mostly serious and straight forward as town

1. BP here resembles BP scum meta.
2. Don;t get any townie vibes from BP's entrance.
3. My newb-scum night kill choice theory works for doobie.

VOTE: Doobie

[72offsuit]

Lol, probs a bit harsh/unfair to vote for Doobie when she has left the game.

VOTE: BP

[72offsuit]

UVC:

72offsuit (3): Elmo TeH AzN, Menalque, Iconeum
BP (2): Atarashi Hajimari, 72offsuit

Not Voting (2): BP, WizenedWalrus

[72offsuit]

Posts 587 and 589 are really weird reactions to the wagon on eqsy. First you say you find the lack of a counterwagon weird. Then you say if they flip scum there's nothing to be done because the game is wacky (again, I don't know why Ico didn't jump on this as well, like he did with my 'headache' comment - there's many of these).

Then you kinda go back and forth with the eqsy slot that seems approaching at a distance, like you're afraid of being connected. Post 677. Irks me, even if he tries to backpedal on 716. But again, it's a very weak one because on 715 he tries to establish a Menal + Elmo/Doobie scumteam.

738 is the lynch.

After this he votes my slot appearing out of nothing. Before, he put 2 people above me on his scumreads, saying I had a 50.5% chance to be scum (717)

After a while he starts to hardpress Elmo, even calling him the worst scumtell - 824. The guy who hammered scum, for having hammered... Anyways...

Then he says he had a scumread on Elmo the day before (which is true), but presses him while keeping the vote on me the whole time. That could be scum!72 trying not to deflect too much out of a bus on someone else. Says he's been scummy on both days but keeps voting me because I'm the smart lynch (when agreeing with Atari on 839.

Unvotes when doobie gets subbed. Checks out my meta, votes me.

You lean scum, along with walrus. I'd say it's one of you. Plus, you both tick my "was on the prev scum wagon" box.

Updated readlist:

town: Elmo
townish: Menal, Ico
Null: atari
Scummish: walrus, 72.

LOL i vote. You and suddenly i become total scum from a. Null.

[72offsuit]

BP meta:

Newbie 1621: Kitchen Chaos
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62311

BP was pretty jokey throughout: Just the first handful of posts included:

''Unvote whoever. ''

''I'll get started on reading. I mean reading you guys. Brace thyselves.''

''Ugh, Angry Frog's gameplay. In my slot's name I do apologize Anyways, quickreading this is what really stuck to me.''

''Jesus Christ, page 6 gave me a fright. You were seriously going to lynch Vedith? Nheh, I read him as town. I know getting info from the lynch is often a good idea, but I seriously read him as town. The fearlessness mainly gives me that vibe.''

This last post ín that game pretty much fels like it echoes his "'Page 13 and WTF" post in this game

Town game:
Mini 1696: SPACE DANDY MAFIA
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=62603

Mostly serious and straight forward as town

1. BP here resembles BP scum meta.
2. Don;t get any townie vibes from BP's entrance.
3. My newb-scum night kill choice theory works for doobie.

VOTE: Doobie

So you're voting me based on my two games 5 years ago? Stop trying to make the wagon on you not happen so desperately.

I was jokey at first here as well. I voted for coronavirus, yes. I then immediately started to provide my insight, however superficial, and got involved in a discussion with a player. That's what happened with the dandy mafia as well. It's something common to the three games.

Tell me something. Who should we lynch if you get lynched and flip town?

No im voting you 80 percent based on doobie being new and most likely to night kill clidd.
20 percent is your meta reading like scum and nothing from your entrance pinging me as townie.

[72offsuit]

BP meta:

Newbie 1621: Kitchen Chaos
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62311

BP was pretty jokey throughout: Just the first handful of posts included:

''Unvote whoever. ''

''I'll get started on reading. I mean reading you guys. Brace thyselves.''

''Ugh, Angry Frog's gameplay. In my slot's name I do apologize Anyways, quickreading this is what really stuck to me.''

''Jesus Christ, page 6 gave me a fright. You were seriously going to lynch Vedith? Nheh, I read him as town. I know getting info from the lynch is often a good idea, but I seriously read him as town. The fearlessness mainly gives me that vibe.''

This last post ín that game pretty much fels like it echoes his "'Page 13 and WTF" post in this game

Town game:
Mini 1696: SPACE DANDY MAFIA
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=62603

Mostly serious and straight forward as town

1. BP here resembles BP scum meta.
2. Don;t get any townie vibes from BP's entrance.
3. My newb-scum night kill choice theory works for doobie.

VOTE: Doobie

So you're voting me based on my two games 5 years ago? Stop trying to make the wagon on you not happen so desperately.

I was jokey at first here as well. I voted for coronavirus, yes. I then immediately started to provide my insight, however superficial, and got involved in a discussion with a player. That's what happened with the dandy mafia as well. It's something common to the three games.

Tell me something. Who should we lynch if you get lynched and flip town?

I can only use the information in front of me. It would be great if you had a more recent game, but you don't. I don't really know if people's meta change over a long time of absence. All i see is you behaving similarly here as in the chef game where you were scum.

No... I'm scumhunting to present a case to town as a whole as to who i think is likely to be scum.
Correct, i don't want to be lynched in any game regardless of alignment, and yes moreso when im scum.
But desperate? Hardly.

If I end up being lynched today, you should be lynched tomorrow.

[72offsuit]

BP meta:

Newbie 1621: Kitchen Chaos
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=62311

BP was pretty jokey throughout: Just the first handful of posts included:

''Unvote whoever. ''

''I'll get started on reading. I mean reading you guys. Brace thyselves.''

''Ugh, Angry Frog's gameplay. In my slot's name I do apologize Anyways, quickreading this is what really stuck to me.''

''Jesus Christ, page 6 gave me a fright. You were seriously going to lynch Vedith? Nheh, I read him as town. I know getting info from the lynch is often a good idea, but I seriously read him as town. The fearlessness mainly gives me that vibe.''

This last post ín that game pretty much fels like it echoes his "'Page 13 and WTF" post in this game

Town game:
Mini 1696: SPACE DANDY MAFIA
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=62603

Mostly serious and straight forward as town

1. BP here resembles BP scum meta.
2. Don;t get any townie vibes from BP's entrance.
3. My newb-scum night kill choice theory works for doobie.

VOTE: Doobie

So you're voting me based on my two games 5 years ago? Stop trying to make the wagon on you not happen so desperately.

I was jokey at first here as well. I voted for coronavirus, yes. I then immediately started to provide my insight, however superficial, and got involved in a discussion with a player. That's what happened with the dandy mafia as well. It's something common to the three games.

Tell me something. Who should we lynch if you get lynched and flip town?

I can only use the information in front of me. It would be great if you had a more recent game, but you don't. I don't really know if people's meta change over a long time of absence. All i see is you behaving similarly here as in the chef game where you were scum.

No... I'm scumhunting to present a case to town as a whole as to who i think is likely to be scum.
Correct, i don't want to be lynched in any game regardless of alignment, and yes moreso when im scum.
But desperate? Hardly.

If I end up being lynched today, you should be lynched tomorrow.

So now not only are you ignoring my ISO on you, not explaining the actions I called out, but now you're literally copying my stance of "lynch me today fine, but lynch him tomorrow".

You're getting redder and redder.

Could you please reply to post 913?

I thought I was replying to what you were asking for by replying to in post 911.

No, I'm replaying to your question who should be lynched tomorrow if Im lynched today, not "copying you"

Next time explicitly state which post you want me to answer and the odds I actually respond to the right post will increase.

[72offsuit]

Posts 587 and 589 are really weird reactions to the wagon on eqsy. First you say you find the lack of a counterwagon weird. Then you say if they flip scum there's nothing to be done because the game is wacky (again, I don't know why Ico didn't jump on this as well, like he did with my 'headache' comment - there's many of these).

Then you kinda go back and forth with the eqsy slot that seems approaching at a distance, like you're afraid of being connected. Post 677. Irks me, even if he tries to backpedal on 716. But again, it's a very weak one because on 715 he tries to establish a Menal + Elmo/Doobie scumteam.

738 is the lynch.

After this he votes my slot appearing out of nothing. Before, he put 2 people above me on his scumreads, saying I had a 50.5% chance to be scum (717)

After a while he starts to hardpress Elmo, even calling him the worst scumtell - 824. The guy who hammered scum, for having hammered... Anyways...

Then he says he had a scumread on Elmo the day before (which is true), but presses him while keeping the vote on me the whole time. That could be scum!72 trying not to deflect too much out of a bus on someone else. Says he's been scummy on both days but keeps voting me because I'm the smart lynch (when agreeing with Atari on 839.

Unvotes when doobie gets subbed. Checks out my meta, votes me.

You lean scum, along with walrus. I'd say it's one of you. Plus, you both tick my "was on the prev scum wagon" box.

Updated readlist:

town: Elmo
townish: Menal, Ico
Null: atari
Scummish: walrus, 72.

You've linked to a post where I update the vote count and also to the mod's post when the lynch occured - no comment

You say I was wavering in the esqy lynch. Ye, I was unsure, but in the end I felt enough of my town reads were on the wagon.

Ico summed it up in 591. My vote added made it into a wagon, for good or for bad.

How can I bus Elmo, when there is only 1 scum left? This doesnt even make sense.

[72offsuit]

That was a thorough waste of time.

[72offsuit]

You lean scum, along with walrus. I'd say it's one of you. Plus, you both tick my "was on the prev scum wagon" box.

Updated readlist:

town: Elmo
townish: Menal, Ico
Null: atari
Scummish: walrus, 72.

With only one bad guy left in the game, and a mason claim in play, the only way icon could be bad would be if we have two power townies who have let the claim stand instead of just coming out and saying "Icon is lying, let's lynch him and end the game". Given that, I don't see how you could possibly rank elmo ahead of icon.

Also, is there a reason you're not voting for anyone?

A bit more seriously is that Doobie straight up admitted this was her first game ever, and that's pretty cool. Dunno 'bout the rest of ya, but I'm not gonna vote for her during D1 unless she does something super scummy at any point. Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

This actual feels like scum-buddying.

Yes, it does. Main reason I'm looking more at you & elmo today.

At the moment, I'm leaning toward voting 72, as I see in the voting record he left a RVS vote on lotus, but quickly changed once she got a couple of votes. He also switched to vote for eqzylootz shortly after I had, despite previously stating that he found me suspicious.

I had a

slight scumlean

on you based off

gut

only after your first handful of posts.

You're voting analysis doesn't ring true as to why I am scum. You are saying I chose to bus, had a change of mind not to bus, and then again chose to bus?

[72offsuit]

No, my posts are Falling on deaf ears anyway.

[72offsuit]

Wake me up..... when September ends.....

[72offsuit]

Most likely given it fits with noob-scum-night-kill-non-clear and I dont get a toenie vibe off BP.
But on the other hand i also feel Doobie wouldve just let herself be lynched and basically said 'gg' rather than replacing out

[72offsuit]

Townie*

[72offsuit]

And then there were 5.

And another one gone, and another one gone,
Another one bites the dust

[72offsuit]

I think the answer is /probably/ still 72 but I don’t really like it

What don't you like?

Whatshesaid ^

What has changed to you not liking it? You seemed pretty keen yesterday.

[72offsuit]

Think I prefer Walrus over Elmo.
Rereading Elmo's ISO from the perspective of !townElmo makes sense.
I feel like I was confbiasing yesterday.
Elmo has more more scummy posts, but also has a few townie-vibe posts.
Conversely Walrus is pretty much null with a pinch of slightly scummy posts.

Stay tuned... beep-beep-beep-beep

[72offsuit]

I think scum is much more likely to lie in null,
as compared to a mix of scummy and townie vibe posts.

[72offsuit]

Overall find Elmo to be much more reckless and flow of consciousness, rambly sort of posts, which i think is more of a town-mindset - not giving a shit how you come off as, but more focussed on scumhunting.

Walrus' posts feel more calculated and planned, more agenda-based.

Could be a meta/posting style thing overall, but this indicator has worked for me more than its let me down

[72offsuit]

terminology and abbreviations everyone is using here are foreign to me

What terms?

terms like: SSS, PoE, etc. and also how to read stuff like (term)!(term) -- I kinda guess based on the color coding, but not really sure how you're supposed to parse that. I think there were a few more things in the rules as I was skimming through them, but can't remember off the top of my head.

Hi all,

I've skimmed through the thread, and to be honest I feel pretty lost. I've played a few online mafia/werewolf games at another site, but this is my first game here, and the terminology and abbreviations everyone is using here are foreign to me, so I'll take a while to adjust I imagine.

Looking at the setup notes, it doesn't look like it's possible to have masons and another flavor of power townie in the game at the same time, or am I misunderstanding the table?

Off to a meeting, but will get back to re-reading over lunch.

1. I still find this playing-the-noob-card entrance post scummy
2. Might seem silly, but I find feeling the need to justify one's presence/absence scummy.

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

Not liking the "for the moment" wording. You can hardly genuinely build pressure on a scumtarget when you are letting them know ahead of time that its "only for the moment".

You're right of course, about it being bad that we've leaked information about the setup to the baddies. Now they know what sort of power townies they have to deal with, and will plan accordingly.

However, it didn't seem to me that you were reacting to the information leak, but rather to the fact that the finger was being pointed at you. I could possibly have misread though, I've been speed-reading/skimming everything to try and catch up. I'll go back and reread.[/quote]

Feels like fence sitting here. "Could possibly have a misread". Scummy as can later justify changing a "read" on Elmo from scum to town or vice versa as convenient later on.

Riddle me this. Why are we solving this game on day one?

Isn't the point of the game to solve it? Why wouldn't we start on day one?

Super serious tone to this post, which I find to be LAMISTY and thus scummy

In 765
So, where does a baddie stick their partner in this list? Along with himself, clidd, atarashi, wizened, icon, or with doobie, elmo, menalque?

Information instead of analysis. Looks like he is trying to appear to be scumhunting but does not actually state where he thinks Lotus/Lootz/Jorm would fit their scum partner on the "reads" list

[72offsuit]

We’re in a weird world

I looked at a bunch of newbies where scum was lynched on D1 and the overwhelming trend was for scum to be off wagon on D1

That’s not the case this game

When they were on wagon they were normally on at the end of the wagon but hmm

@people asking what I don’t like

as in, you looked into several newbie-level games?

[72offsuit]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=775

Newbie 1978 post 778 - scum on wagon d1

[72offsuit]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=700

Newbie 1973 post 702 - also 1 scum on wagon

[72offsuit]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=750

Newbie 1965 - post 770 - 2 scum on wagon

[72offsuit]

thats 3/3 that ive checked, lol

[72offsuit]

what point are you trying to make anyways?

[72offsuit]

lolz 4/4

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1225

Newbie 1961

[72offsuit]

oh.

[72offsuit]

Well still, what point are you trying to make?

[72offsuit]

That you;re scum?

[72offsuit]

VOTE: Walrus

[72offsuit]

VT

[72offsuit]

Icos reads havent been accurate this game. Reread clidds iso

[72offsuit]

Pretty sure if i was scum here i wouldve tunneled elmo given elmo was my main fos yesterday

[72offsuit]

Whatevs

[72offsuit]

The vote on me by walrus without stating its l-1 is bad.

Walrus lack of response re my iso is bad

Elmos lack of response to what she agrees or disagrees with my reads on likely scum in walrus is bad.

Mena not having found scum and wanting to hammer me as per clidds BoP cage is bad.

[72offsuit]

terminology and abbreviations everyone is using here are foreign to me

What terms?

terms like: SSS, PoE, etc. and also how to read stuff like (term)!(term) -- I kinda guess based on the color coding, but not really sure how you're supposed to parse that. I think there were a few more things in the rules as I was skimming through them, but can't remember off the top of my head.

Hi all,

I've skimmed through the thread, and to be honest I feel pretty lost. I've played a few online mafia/werewolf games at another site, but this is my first game here, and the terminology and abbreviations everyone is using here are foreign to me, so I'll take a while to adjust I imagine.

Looking at the setup notes, it doesn't look like it's possible to have masons and another flavor of power townie in the game at the same time, or am I misunderstanding the table?

Off to a meeting, but will get back to re-reading over lunch.

1. I still find this playing-the-noob-card entrance post scummy
2. Might seem silly, but I find feeling the need to justify one's presence/absence scummy.

For the moment, I'll go with VOTE: Elmo TeH AzN: as others have pointed out, she seemed to get unduly flustered by Menalque's SR of her.

Not liking the "for the moment" wording. You can hardly genuinely build pressure on a scumtarget when you are letting them know ahead of time that its "only for the moment".

You're right of course, about it being bad that we've leaked information about the setup to the baddies. Now they know what sort of power townies they have to deal with, and will plan accordingly.

However, it didn't seem to me that you were reacting to the information leak, but rather to the fact that the finger was being pointed at you. I could possibly have misread though, I've been speed-reading/skimming everything to try and catch up. I'll go back and reread.

Feels like fence sitting here. "Could possibly have a misread". Scummy as can later justify changing a "read" on Elmo from scum to town or vice versa as convenient later on.

Riddle me this. Why are we solving this game on day one?

Isn't the point of the game to solve it? Why wouldn't we start on day one?

Super serious tone to this post, which I find to be LAMISTY and thus scummy

In 765
So, where does a baddie stick their partner in this list? Along with himself, clidd, atarashi, wizened, icon, or with doobie, elmo, menalque?

Information instead of analysis. Looks like he is trying to appear to be scumhunting but does not actually state where he thinks Lotus/Lootz/Jorm would fit their scum partner on the "reads" list

[/quote]

This post.

[72offsuit]

Elmos lack of response to what she agrees or disagrees with my reads on likely scum in walrus is bad.

Repost your reads my dear. It wasn't intentional to ignore them I promise.

So what are your current reads Elmo?

[72offsuit]

Yeah, no need to rush.

UNVOTE: for now. FoS on 72.

I should have a little time to give a full read of everyone after my morning meetings. Hard to see past 72 at the moment, due to the clidd kill (who had all but cleared him), which also appeared designed to point the finger of suspicion at doobie (the only a noob would not kill the mason argument).

Why unvote now if ypu scumread me sp heavily?
Ive already claimed.
Dont you townread Mena? Are you worried he will quickhammer?

Ico was obsessed with doobie. I thought it was elmo yesterday. Ico wouldnt budge. I hated BPs entrance to the game. So i stopped trying to convince ico to change, given i thougjt there was a decrnt chance doobie was scum.

[72offsuit]

like if we make it to tomorrow and the mason is alive then the game is a lock as far as I'm concerned

72 is just a liability to be mislynched in lylo at this point so we resolve that and then go from there tomorrow if the game doesn't end

The odds of mason surviving r pretty shit.
Its not me and its not u. Aint a whole lot of ppl left who could b mason

[72offsuit]

No. Because we have 2 scumbuckets in elmo and walrus.
And we have u who r playing too scummy to b scum and u still hvent found scum. Clidds BoP. Unwerent votinng lootz and now u state intent to lynch me.

[72offsuit]

If Clidd correctly read me as town despite me manipulating him as scum previously, i tjink thats pretty telling that im tpwn

[72offsuit]

Your shitty intent to hammer so early is scummy as.

[72offsuit]

like if you do flip town and it's (1scum, 1vt, 1mason) in (WW, Elmo, atar) then if scum have a 50/50 chance of hitting the mason

if they decide to kill me instead of mason hunting then the mason outs and has a 50/50 chance of voting right tomorrow

Wtf r u talking abput.

Regardless of alignment u will be in the 3 wY lylo.

[72offsuit]

if they hit the mason tonight then I have to choose tomorrow and I'd rather not be making that choice with you still in the game because it's gonna be a fucking nightmare trying to decide if you're scum who's made it to the end or town brought along to be the mislynch

You dont choose jack shit.

[72offsuit]

like if you do flip town and it's (1scum, 1vt, 1mason) in (WW, Elmo, atar) then if scum have a 50/50 chance of hitting the mason

if they decide to kill me instead of mason hunting then the mason outs and has a 50/50 chance of voting right tomorrow

Lol........ If they decide to kill u. What a joke post

[72offsuit]

I don't really read 72 as town, I don't wanna out the mason if that's still possible

Another joke post.
Youve just stated intemt to hammer me. And u r talking about "not really tpwn readimg me"

[72offsuit]

At this stage i think elmo is very unlikely to be scum here. I find it very hard to believe for my wagon and intent to hammerer to all 4 being town.

[72offsuit]

Yeah, no need to rush.

UNVOTE: for now. FoS on 72.

I should have a little time to give a full read of everyone after my morning meetings. Hard to see past 72 at the moment, due to the clidd kill (who had all but cleared him), which also appeared designed to point the finger of suspicion at doobie (the only a noob would not kill the mason argument).

LOL. A key part of your case is that i killed clidd who had me as a hard town read?

[72offsuit]

If i was scum i would bring him along. How does this make me scum?

[72offsuit]

So yesterday I was pretty close to switching to vote 72. The reason I did not feel comfortable with that was mainly because BP put someone higher in his town reads than iconeum, he never answered the posts I addressed to him, and he never cast a vote for anyone.

I think the 72 killing clidd theory works for two reasons: made the kill seem more likely to have been perpetrated by a n00b, and guaranteed that clidd would not change his mind about him again.

Elmo has seemed suspicious to me through the game. There is zero cred for putting the final vote on the baddie, since it was pretty clear that they were going to go, clidd had already said he was going to hammer. Elmo jumping in to hammer looked strongly like a baddie resigning themselves to the fact that their teammate was gone, and wanting to get some credit for it.

Atarashi led the charge against the lotus slot on day 1, and has seemed very townie to me, especially 37 doesn't seem like something one baddie teammate types to another at the beginning of a game.

The possibility of Menalque being bad is something that bothers me, as I don't know that I'd be able to read him one way or the other. He's seemed very pro-town, but also seems just crazy enough to be able to pull off a gambit like fake-claiming mason to find the real PTs. My biggest reason for trusting him is basically trusting in Icon's read. Also, if I'm not mistaken, at the time he came into the game I believe lotus was under a lot of pressure. Would he, with the partner already under pressure, do something as high-risk as fake-claiming mason? I mean, I get the feeling he likes to take risks, but I also get the impression that he likes to win. So I'm not sure a crazy gambit with a partner already under pressure is something he would do. I could be wrong of course, but in my mind it seems more likely that the final baddie is in 72/elmo.

Also, looking at lotus' & jorgengand's posts, I see that lotus raised suspicions about elmo (214), never mentioned 72, and seemed to be convinced by menalque. Jorgengand's list was uneven 734 -- I think he's be more likely to hide his baddie partner in the longer list. Doobie, elmo, and menalque were all in the shorter list, while 72 was in the longer one.

On balance, the case for 72 seems the strongest to me.

"Clidd had already said he was going to hammer" - Walrus is just reiterating what I have said earlier the previous day about elmo's vote being the last on the wagon - agrees with my read there, but did not say so at the time when I first posted that, and is only stating this now.

- Walrus still ignoring my analysis of why he is scum
- His analysis is almost entirely based on WIFOM - night kill, who lootz/lotus/jorm were "FoSing" and almost nothing based on actual posts.

[72offsuit]

walrus, vote 72

I want to give him the chance to make a strong argument for you to be the baddie first.

As much as the other baddies mentioned elmo, I think it's got to be between the two of you now.

Lol, this feels like it could be Walrus buttering up Elmo in preparation for 3 way LYLO tomorrow.

[72offsuit]

walrus, vote 72

I want to give him the chance to make a strong argument for you to be the baddie first.

As much as the other baddies mentioned elmo, I think it's got to be between the two of you now.

Lol, this feels like it could be Walrus buttering up Elmo in preparation for 3 way LYLO tomorrow.

Wow, so you can't even make a case for anyone else? If you were really town, I'd think you'd at least try.

I posted an extensive ISO on elmo yesterday.
Either you aren't reading the thread, or you are deliberately ignoring all posts that are inconvenient to your tunneling of me.

[72offsuit]

Good luck in Lylo
You;re gna need it

[72offsuit]

ggwp all

[72offsuit]

Should've stuck with my gut read of elmo -_-
Regardless, Mena/Ata/Doobie had all made up their mind to lynch me anyway.
I'd say me changing FoSes to the mason is probably a town tell.
Town is less likely to be trying to find PR than scum are.
Meh.

Well played town.