Newbie 1989 (Game over!)

[Lotus Aura]

Ah, I see the spirit of everyone's good friend Juste Poaste is alive and well.

Got a confession right there in his name, so VOTE: GuiltyLion

[Lotus Aura]

A bit more seriously is that Doobie straight up admitted this was her first game ever, and that's pretty cool. Dunno 'bout the rest of ya, but I'm not gonna vote for her during D1 unless she does something super scummy at any point. Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

[Lotus Aura]

A bit more seriously is that Doobie straight up admitted this was her first game ever, and that's pretty cool. Dunno 'bout the rest of ya, but I'm not gonna vote for her during D1 unless she does something super scummy at any point. Just so she can actually play the game a bit, y'know?

Given this statement, what's your opinion of azn?

Gonna keep it in mind for later, as with most things, but it's a null tell as her first post during jokephase/RVS.

[Lotus Aura]

Y;'know, throwing shade. Calling a thing out without making a judgment call on it, so as to imply it's bad. A good scum tactic to

seem

helpful and friendly, but without actually being so.

[Lotus Aura]

No I don't? I'm pretty sure you even quoted a post where I said the opposite (underlined).

Problem there is that explanation comes after the original post, which in its entirety is and was:

So far iconeum and Doobie have been the only two to not throw out a rvs vote on their first post.

There is no judgment call here, at all. It's just sat there, looking all terrible and awkward. That's why you got called out for shading originally: because that's what you did. So, yes, while you did say that it's not bad, that was a post hoc justification when pressed on the subject a couple times. That doesn't change that the original take you posted didn't actually have a conclusion, especially when you admit to it not even having a point.

That combined with

I'm not going to pressure someone on something I don't think is worth pressuring

raises the natural question of why you would post it; it's obviously not a jokepost, so the timing doesn't make sense. Trying to appear helpful and townie while not contributing anything useful is the natural conclusion here.

Unlike Ico, I don't think this is worth a serious vote on its own- especially at the start of D1 - but it is definitely something that I hope doesn't get forgotten as the day progresses.

[Lotus Aura]

Also, currently at work, so while I'll definitely be around, I'll likely be just bouncing in and out for the next, I dunno, 6ish hours.

[Lotus Aura]

Sure. Don't remember exact number of games, since most were quick, micro stuff IRL and the like. Been playing online on other sites on and off for about 4ish years, now, and run a couple of games as well (though not many).

So, definitely new here, but I like to think I can play reasonably well.

[Lotus Aura]

Er, quote missing, but my previous post was in response to Ico of course.

As for Atarashi's post above, I'm just gonna point out the thing he conspicuously didn't underline that is explicitly a conclusion:

Trying to appear helpful and townie while not contributing anything useful is the natural conclusion here.

Which is a very simple way of saying that it is scummy behaviour. Not voting for it on its own is because it's a good thing to note, but it's not a case all on its own.

preview edit: nice OMGUS vote, though.

[Lotus Aura]

By the way, is this post too long? I tried to shorten it, but, I'm a wordy person. Always open to feedback.

Nah, I wouldn't worry too much about the length. Seems fine to me.

The point about Ico switching vote when and how he did is a pretty good one, in my opinion. Not just with Atarashi's "what about" argument, but it just doesn't flow coherently in context either. Asking for Atarashi's reasoning for why he thinks I'm scummy, getting an argument that does boil down to "if you think I'm scummy, then so are they" and then... Ico switches vote. With no further comment or explanation. On its own that rubs me as very off, but the greater context is even more telling. Namely, thanks to 7/2's initial jokevote, Ico's pushed me to -2. Luckily any even halfway competent scum would not pounce on that at the start of D1, so like I don't feel threatened by it at all.

But, Ico, ol' buddy, ol' pal, do us all a favour here and explain yourself, yeah? You were looking pretty okay in my mind, but combining the immediate vote on Atarashi over something that is a good point but a weak case and then a naked vote following an argument that is fundamentally worse is, frankly, incredibly bad.

[Lotus Aura]

I have mixed feelings about this one - it feels like Lotus is trying to buddy the thread a little bit, playing a little too nice. Do you think Doobie is town?

Can write that one off as a difference in play value, then. I did say in that very same post that if she acted scummy enough to be my top read (albeit in less words), that'd still take priority. As a general rule, I think folks who sign up to play a game should get the opportunity to play that game. And it's only for D1 anyway, which is generally more chill.

And given her first post, it'd be impossible to gauge sincerely there. After her post above, though, I'm definitely thinking that she's leaning Town.

[Lotus Aura]

I disagree with this, I think the start of D1 is the best time to vote people for relatively light accusations. A vote right now doesn't necessarily mean you want to see that player dead, it is more a vehicle to create pressure and force the entire game to react to your vote. We learn a lot more when we create wagons than we do when we simply "note" things.

This, though, is definitely a difference in playstyle. A single vote at the start of D1 is absolutely not creating pressure. Later days, yeah, absolutely, but not right now. Once jokephase is over and serious votes start, that's generally making a statement that you are making a legitimate scum read. In my mind, that means you have an actual reason to think what you think a bit more than a gut feel or what have you. Yeah, D1 is going to be relatively light accusations, but that's because it's D1 and there's less to work with; that doesn't mean it deserves less effort though.

[Lotus Aura]

Jeez, y'all were chatty last night, huh? Last I saw the thread, it was on page 3.

Gonna drop this UNVOTE: , since I'm definitely not voting Menalque.

[Lotus Aura]

Menal's claim is pretty safe and I'm inclined to believe it, personally. Ico even admitted that the only real conclusion here is that he's telling the truth (post 196)... and is still insistent that Menal is scum despite that..? What? The arguments he puts forth for how its a bad play in post 193 sound good but don't really ring true in practice. The distraction argument (post 195) is even more hollow, if anything, and I can't follow the logic here at all. The mason claim has to be true, but he's also scum and bussing me but also drawing attention away all at the same time...? Ico absolutely picked Menal here as the target for the lunch first, and is trying to force the conclusion when the evidence isn't there. That's pretty bad on its own, since it's something that's more scummy than not, but combine it with yesterday's stuff and Ico just looks so much worse to me.

[Lotus Aura]

Elmo's incredibly aggressively defensive reaction to being called scum once by Menal is also very bad. If you really want to see flustered caught scum, I think she's given a good demonstration of it. I'd call her a very good second from it, right now.

[Lotus Aura]

But for now I'm definitely voting VOTE: Ico, since his arguments are nonsense, come off as incredibly bad faith and wanting to gun down the one person who seems solidly Town is very panicky and defensive in its own right.

[Lotus Aura]

...since

its

arguments are nonsense...

Mafiaedit to correct pronoun, sorry.