Mini 2123: Greatest Idea IX - Game Over
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Why do you think Yshtola Rhul would lie about this? This is posed to both EspressoPatronum and GlowingOvineChimes.In post 48, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:I agree. The chances of that are so slimIn post 47, EspressoPatronum wrote:Can you tell me what cards you rolled in the other two setups?In post 38, Yshtola Rhul wrote:[...]
If I had the choice of a scum role, I would have picked it.
Sadly, I did not roll a single alignment other than town in all three setups. It's quite distressing, actually.
[...]
As it stands, I do not believe that you didn't roll scum in any setup.
Would you explain to me how you arrived at your ranking list based on the announced discard?In post 59, EspressoPatronum wrote:In post 51, Titus wrote:Espresso, why no comment on Cakes discard?I've been looking at most of the scum discards as roughly the same - etter than a town discard but not necessarily AI. Kerset's jumped out as +town though because it would be an amazing scum ability for maf/WW/SK but less useful for town.In post 49, EspressoPatronum wrote:[...]
I don't think [CSF'd discard is] a bad discard, but I no longer think it's a +town discard. I'd lump it in with theother scum discards.
If I had to rank the others in terms of how much I like them, I'd say:
Great:
Kerset - SK alien immune
Good:
TL - WW tracker
Cake - WW cop
Null:
Suji - maf goon
CSF - alpha WW
Bad/not useful for our info:
Titus - alien BP lover
UT - hirsute maf goon
I have played with TrueSoulEnergy, Kerset, and TemporalLich previously. What are you intending to get out of this question?In post 100, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Has anyone played with anyone else from this game in other games?
Thank you. That was helpful, and it makes sense to me.
A couple of questions:
A couple of questions:
If we cannot glean much information from this discard, and it would make sense for any faction to discard it, why do you have it as bad?In post 213, EspressoPatronum wrote:- UT - hirsute mafia goon. An objectively terrible card for any faction, but it's really bad for mafia. The maf goon would get guiltied from seers AND cops. There are few cards worse than this imo, so we can't glean much info from this discard.
How is Tracker better than Watcher in this regard? I would assume in a game like this, there are going to be a lot of roles with potential actions that will be able to be tracked and not just from a Mafia alignment.In post 213, EspressoPatronum wrote:- TL - WW tracker. A tracker is great for scum, as it helps them hunt for enemy scum factions. It's less reliable than a specific investigative, but it can still narrow down options.
- What differentiates "not useful for our info" and "Null?"
This is true. However, if she were Town she could also lie. I was wanting you to tell me your thoughts on why you think that sheIn post 220, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:If he were scum, he could very well lie.
would
lie. What benefit does it give her?Your intent behind supporting EspressoPatronum's thoughts with regard to the probability of this occurring, and the genuineness of your thought process as to why Yshtola Rhul would lie.In post 226, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:What do you hope to glean from this line of questioning?In post 224, Sujimichi wrote:This is true. However, if she were Town she could also lie. I was wanting you to tell me your thoughts on why you think that sheIn post 220, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:If he were scum, he could very well lie.wouldlie. What benefit does it give her?
I will note that you have attempted to dodge my question by asking a question of your own. Would you please answer?
One could say that, but she did not. Sometimes how someone arrives at their answer is just as important, if not more so, than the answer itself. Why did you feel the need to interject here?In post 238, Kerset wrote:LoL You could say that GOC was trying to check "genuineness of Y'shtola thought process". He asked what is the point of your question because its stupid Suji.
I find it interesting that you assumed the reasoning behind GlowingOvineChime's question without it being stated either prior to my response or following my response whilst simultaneously giving an answer for her that was not given. You are projecting your own thoughts, not hers (though she is free to state this was her intent if so), and I do not know if I find your explanation of concern for the Town's overall wellbeing as a viable explanation.
What is the "correct" way to ascertain alignment?
What is the "correct" way to ascertain alignment?
How so? It is fairly apparent that he has been wanting to claim his role, for whatever reason, for a while.In post 243, SirCakez wrote:I don't buy non imh's claim it came out in a sketchy as fuck manner.
Who did you watch last night?In post 269, TemporalLich wrote:I would take cBG or mason over conspiracy theorist if I were BBmolla
I would definitely not use Survivor as an alignment, I'd rather be VT lol
I do not understand. How does your predisposition to being read as Mafia due to your username preclude you from announcing what you should see as a guilty in your first post and prior to being prompted? Would that not make you more likely to be read as Mafia?In post 287, TemporalLich wrote:Because people seem to SR me for being TLIn post 286, Sujimichi wrote:Why was that not your first post? Why did you wait until you were prompted?
Why do you say this?In post 310, TemporalLich wrote:Pink Ball likely isn't town regardless
I would like to hear your thoughts beyond this sentiment. This is the second time you have stated it. What do you think now that there is a possible guilty on Cat Scratch Fever, and that Untrod Tripod has claimed the kill on Titus?In post 317, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:AgreedIn post 294, SirCakez wrote:TL could also just be gambitting scum betting that with so many town dead they can pull off an easy mislynch
Caution wouldn't hurt here
We need to slowwwwww down guys
We can't let scum coast away with this game
I'd like to hear from everyone before putting my vote down
Espresso?
Apologies, but this is a team game and you deprive the rest of the Town a full day to look back on.In post 323, Titus wrote:Hammered to avoid nk and detest day 1.In post 270, SirCakez wrote:I'm shocked Titus was town btw after that hammer
Why are you voting Pink Ball over your guilty? That does not make sense.In post 331, TemporalLich wrote:VOTE: Pink Ball
You're causing too much confusion and WIFOM for this game.
You're either scum, or you're scum.
I am willing to unvote when this hits L-2 if further discussion is needed.
Apologies, but he claimed to have watched Yshtola Rhul and saw Cat Scratch Fever visiting her.In post 352, Pink Ball wrote:Because he claimed watching CSF and CSF was roleblockedIn post 349, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Why couldn't he be watcher like he claimed?In post 348, SirCakez wrote:TL is flailing scum
I do not believe it an equivalent statement, which is why I wanted to clarify it. If TemporalLich watched Cat Scratch Fever, your roleblock would not have an effect on his action as players could still target Cat Scratch Fever and he would have seen the players that targeted Cat Scratch Fever instead of the other way around.In post 357, Pink Ball wrote:Potato potatoIn post 353, Sujimichi wrote:Apologies, but he claimed to have watched Yshtola Rhul and saw Cat Scratch Fever visiting her.In post 352, Pink Ball wrote:Because he claimed watching CSF and CSF was roleblockedIn post 349, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Why couldn't he be watcher like he claimed?In post 348, SirCakez wrote:TL is flailing scum
Why do you believe this?In post 354, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Ok I'm fairly convinced that pinkball and suki are both town
There is very necessarily one Mafia member between TemporalLich and Cat Scratch Fever. Why are you voting outside of this currently?
TemporalLich watched Ysthola Rhul who died last night. He states that he saw Cat Scratch Fever visit, and does not state that he saw anyone else visit. This implies that Cat Scratch Fever is the only player to have visited Yshtola Rhul the night she died. So:In post 364, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Explain to me again why this MUST be so. Is there no scenario in which they can both be town?In post 360, Sujimichi wrote:There is very necessarily one Mafia member between TemporalLich and Cat Scratch Fever. Why are you voting outside of this currently?
- TemporalLich is telling the truth. This means that Cat Scratch Fever must have killed Yshtola Rhul. There was no reason for a Town-aligned role to target Yshtola Rhul with a kill last night as opposed to a player such as Titus, which Untrod Tripod has stated he killed. This, of course, does not mean Untrod Tripod is necessarily Town, but it is enough that he is not the focus for today.
- TemporalLich is lying. As Town, TemporalLich has no reason to lie. So, if he is lying he must be Mafia (or non-Town aligned).
- Pink Ball claims to have roleblocked Cat Scratch Fever last night which means either Cat Scratch Fever is a Strongman-role and #1 above is true or Cat Scratch Fever is not a Strongman-role and #2 is true
I have considered the first option, but it does not hurt the game to have the explanation written out, and I was asked.In post 367, Untrod Tripod wrote:have you considered that perhaps GOC is trying super hard to prevent a lynch on her buddy for reasons that are unclear at this time
or that she's dumb
either way I don't know much you explaining something that literally everyone else has somehow managed to absorb is going to make a difference
If TemporalLich is lying it is likely that he is the one who performed the kill. If a Tracker exists, and he was tracked to the kill, he had a built-in excuse with his Day 1 Watcher claim. This is part of the reason I was suspicious as to the timing of his guilty claim.In post 391, Kerset wrote:If TL lied then the real killer was aware of it and he is the most likely to call this out. I doubt that pink would gamble on fakeblocking you but your account might matter in the future.
Pink Ball's result does not directly contradict TemporalLich's result as there is a role that exists that could negate Pink Ball's roleblock. However, TemporalLich's result directly contradicts Cat Scratch Fever's assertion that she did not target anyone last night.In post 398, SirCakez wrote:Your result contradicts TL so it's you vs him???In post 396, Pink Ball wrote:It's between TL and CSF but whatever
If TL is town then both CSF and you are scum
I am not sure how this is relevant to the current state of the game. Why do you continue to answer my questions with a question instead of answering?In post 413, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:Let's assume that there are 2 factions and one vig to account for the 3 nks, who would be the top 3 targets for the big, in no particular order?
Which do you believe is lying?In post 415, Kerset wrote:Does the number of scum change the fact that we need to pick correctly? We need to decide which one is scum no matter how far are we from mylo.
This has no relevance to my explanation as to why there is a direct contradiction between your stated result and Cat Scratch Fever's stated no action, yet one does not exist with Pink Ball's result.In post 425, TemporalLich wrote:Why would anyone openly admit to performing a factional nightkill?In post 400, Sujimichi wrote:Pink Ball's result does not directly contradict TemporalLich's result as there is a role that exists that could negate Pink Ball's roleblock. However, TemporalLich's result directly contradicts Cat Scratch Fever's assertion that she did not target anyone last night.In post 398, SirCakez wrote:Your result contradicts TL so it's you vs him???In post 396, Pink Ball wrote:It's between TL and CSF but whatever
If TL is town then both CSF and you are scum
Someone who does is 100% openwolfing
This is untrue and does not form the initial basis of the contradiction.In post 432, TemporalLich wrote:Suji doesn't know the concept of TMI, and thinks scum are brazen enough to openly admit nightkills inthread
In post 403, Pink Ball wrote:It's so nice to have a townread. Both Suji and CSF are good town targets for scum so I'll try to protect them since it will be my last night
Why did you change your mind?In post 475, Pink Ball wrote:I roleblocked UT lol
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Apologies. I misunderstood what you meant.In post 495, Pink Ball wrote:I didn't. I roleblocked the dude I thought had a killing actionIn post 491, Sujimichi wrote:In post 403, Pink Ball wrote:It's so nice to have a townread. Both Suji and CSF are good town targets for scum so I'll try to protect them since it will be my last nightWhy did you change your mind?In post 475, Pink Ball wrote:I roleblocked UT lol
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In post 514, Kerset wrote:alingment: Vanilla Townie
ability: Town One-Shot Dayvig
I guess then Suji is next
Discard
: Mafia GoonAbility
: Town WatcherAlignment
: Town Jack-of-all-tradesResulting Role
I have a result from Night 1 that I do not wish to share at this moment. I watched Cat Scratch Fever last night and no one visited.
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How does the game become nightless?In post 552, Pink Ball wrote:That's great. If game hasn't ended Id suggest lynching the baby seal and if THAT doesn't ends the game then at least it becomes nightless allegedly and we let EP target everyone
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Then why did you choose me and GlowingOvineChimes specifically if "that could really be said about everyone who is left except Pink Ball?"In post 560, SirCakez wrote:No particular reason he's just not sticking out as a townread to me.
That could really be said about everyone who is left except Pink Ball though..
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TemporalLich claimed Town Watcher.In post 563, EspressoPatronum wrote:I'm assuming that's why TL and CSF claimed VT -- it's easy to get away with.
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Why did you not assume he could have been a Mafia Seer? I would think that it would be a beneficial power as that alignment.In post 563, EspressoPatronum wrote:2) While it's hard for me to now prove my role, I can still be used to validate existing claims. For what it's worth, I made a comment earlier about SirCakez having a reduced chance of being scum. My thought process there is that picking the seer power as WW is terrible, so he's almost certainly not WW.
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- EspressoPatronum- Town Rolecop
- Checked SirCakez Night 1 - Seer
- Checked Pink Ball Night 2 - Roleblocker
- Checked SirCakez Night 1 - Seer
- Kerset- Town 1-shot Day Vigilante
- Shot Cat Scratch Fever Day 3
- Sujimichi- Town Watcher
- Watched TemporalLich Night 1 - SirCakez visited
- Watched Cat Scratch Fever Night 2 - No one visited.
- Watched TemporalLich Night 1 - SirCakez visited
- GlowingOvineChimes- Town Vigilante
- Shot BBmolla Night 1
- Shot Untrod Tripod Night 2
- Sircakez- Town Seer
- Checked TemporalLich Night 1 with a negative result
- Check EspressoPatronum Night 2 with a negative result
- Checked TemporalLich Night 1 with a negative result
- Pink Ball- Town Roleblocker
- Blocked Cat Scratch Fever Night 1
- Blocked Untrod Tripod Night 2
- Blocked Cat Scratch Fever Night 1
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I watched TemporalLich because he claimed to be the same role as me; and, as Town, would have been a priority kill target. This is why I initially suspected him at the start of Day 2, and also why I thought SirCakez may have been some type of investigative since he opened with a vote on TemporalLich. If you return to the events of Day 2, you will see it is my actions that caused TemporalLich to make a mistake that allowed you to counterclaim him.In post 610, Pink Ball wrote:3. Suji: this is my wildcard scumread. He apologized for not confirming SirCakez visting TL on N1 before. I fucking HATE this for two reasons: 1, pretty convenient watching TL who is an already flipped scum, seems like trying to get not!mafia reads on himself; and 2, because Suji says "I don't want to share my N1 result" that involves SirCakez, but actually asks Ovine to follow the massclaim. If you don't want to share your N1 target 'cause you want to see if your result will say the truth, why not asking your target to follow the massclaim? To me, it makes perfect sense that the mafia team did actually had some kind of guilty on CSF and TL tried to frame her, so Suji would be lying about his role.
I did not want to share my results from Night 1 originally as SirCakez had made the comment he did not want to discuss his role, so I did not want to say anything at that point. I shared my results following my return to the thread after he had shared his role. I asked GlowingOvineChimes to follow me as she is my strongest Mafia read.
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As a case in support of the no lynch, with the express caveat that mechanics is not my strong suit, and a separate express caveat that I have not played a game with more than one Mafia faction:In post 630, SirCakez wrote:I don't really like the nolynch. What are the odds Suji is lying about his role? Imo very little in this setup. We're just giving scum another chance to kill, in the case that it's not just Ovine which is possible.In post 612, Pink Ball wrote:So, in conclusion!!
We no lynch today; EP rolecops Suji, I roleblock Ovine; if Suji is actually a watcher, I'd say bot him and sircakez are conftown, along with Silver Bullet of course, and we lynch Ovine; if EP says Suji is lying, we lynch Suji.
That's what will give us the most information today I think.
- We have had two members of a Werewolves revealed.
- We have had one member of the Mafia revealed.
- We have had one member of a third party alignment revealed
- We are currently at an even number of players (odd including Titus, but she does not count as alive).
- One remaining Mafia member
- No remaining Werewolf members
- No remaining third parties
I do not think we necessarily have to no lynch, but if we do and are incorrect on GlowingOvineChimes, we move from evens to odds which does not reduce the number of lynches to successfully find the Mafia member.
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In post 633, Titus wrote:We don't have an explanation for three kills night 1.
- Werewolf Bloodsucker kill (Untrod Tripod)
- Mafia kill (TemporalLich)
- Vig (Town/Mafia) - GlowingOvineChimes
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That is my assumption:In post 644, SirCakez wrote:The third kill N1 was just the claimed Vig no?
In post 635, Sujimichi wrote:In post 633, Titus wrote:We don't have an explanation for three kills night 1.What are we missing for the explanation?
- Werewolf Bloodsucker kill (Untrod Tripod)
- Mafia kill (TemporalLich)
- Vig (Town/Mafia) - GlowingOvineChimes
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Then I am confirmed as a Watcher and not to be lying. This, in turn, confirms that SirCakez visited TemporalLich Night 1. There is always the possibility that one of us has lied as to our role. We are likely to lynch you regardless, whether that be today or tomorrow, of the outcome unless EspressoPatronum catches someone lying about their role.In post 652, GlowingOvineChimes wrote:And what if he claims you're a watcher, as you've already claimed but hes actually mafia? I mean I can say I'm a rolecop right now if I'm scum and I can tell you what everyone's role is because weve already claimed.
Does that make sense?
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Given the brevity of this game, I would like to review it in its entirety before we decide on a lynch today. I am currently most suspect of Kerset, but I do not think that Pink Ball is as clear as I believed him to be yesterday. We have two chances to be correct on our selection, and I do not want to rush through this.
SirCakez is the most Town player to me at the moment, so I will likely never consider him so I need to just remove one more player. Apologies, as I am limited activity at the moment so it will be a day or two before I can do this.
SirCakez is the most Town player to me at the moment, so I will likely never consider him so I need to just remove one more player. Apologies, as I am limited activity at the moment so it will be a day or two before I can do this.
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You are most likely correct on both counts. If that is the case, then lynching Kerset first, and then EspressoPatronum second if Kerset is not Mafia, is the correct path. As I said, though, I would like to make sure I did not miss anything regarding timing.In post 695, SirCakez wrote:I think Pink Ball is clear on the fact that he got TL, a Mafia, lynched and it's pretty safe to assume that the last scum is maf
As I start to review, I do note that Kerset voted Cat Scratch Fever, unvoted once Pink Ball stated that he blocked Cat Scratch Fever, and then offered the alternative of a Strongman role.
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To clarify my comment regarding "timing": Pink Ball did not claim his roleblock on Cat Scratch Fever until after I had pressed for TemporalLich's Watcher result and subsequently started pushing him for his delay. There exists a possibility, albeit small, that they decided that Pink Ball should go "all in" on lynching TemporalLich given that I had not revealed my role, and it is possible I was pushing TemporalLich due to a guilty.In post 695, SirCakez wrote:I think Pink Ball is clear on the fact that he got TL, a Mafia, lynched and it's pretty safe to assume that the last scum is maf
Prior to my question regarding TemporalLich's Watcher target, and TemporalLich's "guilty," Pink Ball stated that Cat Scratch Fever was "most likely scum."
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To clarify my comment regarding "timing": Pink Ball did not claim his roleblock on Cat Scratch Fever until after I had pressed for TemporalLich's Watcher result and subsequently started pushing him for his delay. There exists a possibility, albeit small, that they decided that Pink Ball should go "all in" on lynching TemporalLich given that I had not revealed my role, and it is possible I was pushing TemporalLich due to a guilty.In post 695, SirCakez wrote:I think Pink Ball is clear on the fact that he got TL, a Mafia, lynched and it's pretty safe to assume that the last scum is maf
Prior to my question regarding TemporalLich's Watcher target, and TemporalLich's "guilty," Pink Ball stated that Cat Scratch Fever was "most likely scum."
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I am simply laying out all potential scenarios if Kerset is not the last remaining Mafia and I am not alive to express them.
If you would like analysis as to my alignment:
If you would like analysis as to my alignment:
- I am a confirmed Watcher
- I am a confirmed not Werewolf
- A Mafia Watcher has been revealed
- I am a Town Watcher;
- I am an Alien Watcher;
- or, Micc balanced the setup with two Mafia Watchers
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I have reasonably explained why I wanted to present the information regarding you being cleared, and your reaction is somewhat over-the-top considering what I have stated. You are arriving at a conclusion you would like to arrive at, and not one based on probability from the information that we have.
I have re-evaluated based on my read-through, and from my current point of view, the remaining Mafia must be in Kerset or EspressoPatronum. Pink Ball makes a decent argument for why it is not Kerset, and EspressoPatronum's entire play this game has been mechanically based, so I am inclined to vote EspressoPatronum today.
I have re-evaluated based on my read-through, and from my current point of view, the remaining Mafia must be in Kerset or EspressoPatronum. Pink Ball makes a decent argument for why it is not Kerset, and EspressoPatronum's entire play this game has been mechanically based, so I am inclined to vote EspressoPatronum today.
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Please note this would not be correct if the remaining Mafia is of Alien-alignment as a kill was performed last night.In post 739, Pink Ball wrote:Even if it's not, this game should be over by tomorrow, 'cause I'll roleblock whoever I think it's scum between EP and Kerset and I'll either get an inno or a guilty.
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So, you believe that both of the Mafia members were balanced with Watchers? In your post 773 you make a lot of appeal to emotion and are ignoring reason.In post 773, Pink Ball wrote:Suji on the other hand would be a cool scum 'cause his distancing was on point if he's TL's partner as we are assuming. Thing is, Suji doing a good job at distancing is absolutely on Suji's scum range as I have seen before in a game we lost against him with mastina.
If you believe that I have a possibility of being Town, then it would be better to lynch in EspressoPatronum and Kerset (and mostly just Kerset) as we have roles that can still be utilized whilst Kerset does not. In fact, the most logical course of action would be to lynch Kerset today; and, if the game is not over, to block EspressoPatronum during the night. I am able to Watch between Pink Ball and SirCakez so that if a kill does go off and I choose correctly, I will have a "guilty." If the kill does not go off or the Alien already used their kill action, then we are at no further detriment.
As a precursor to "it is LyLo so it doesn't matter," that is not true as if I actually have a guilty result, I am in a better position (or equal to Mafia) to argue a case.
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- The game is not solved already, as I have previously expressed. The game is likely solved already. If I am lynched, then I hope it is remembered that this game is not solved after my lynch
- You have used balance as an argument several times during this game. Why is my use of it now suspect?
- Once again, this game is not solved.
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Neither you nor Sir Cakez is mechanically cleared, so this is not a solved game. There is a high probability that the remaining Mafia is within Kerset and EspressoPatronum, but it is not 100%. It would be better to allow someone to act tonight to cover all bases, but I do not have the energy nor desire to argue against your push on me, and so if I am to be the lynch today let us go ahead and do it.In post 781, Pink Ball wrote:Read my post again and tell me what's wrong about it, 'cause you haven't.
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