Large Normal 226 | The Legend of Zelda | Canceled

[Something_Smart]

SK here, killing the first person to post each day. Sorry Norweiganboy.

[Something_Smart]

Happy scumday insomnia!

[Something_Smart]

We are not going to have Day 1 of this game be a policy lynch

Do you know how bad it would feel to be singled out in a 50-player game like that?

[Something_Smart]

I mean I wouldn't exactly be broken up about the prospect of mislynching today; even if the wagon we end up getting together is shitty, it still gives more information than a policy lynch does.

[Something_Smart]

What kind of info?

[Something_Smart]

I didn't suggest info lynching? I suggested just playing the game normally, which is probably going to result in a scramble to find a wagon amenable to 26 people and the result is probably going to be a pretty bad lynch... but the events that led to it will still be more useful than a policy lynch.

[Something_Smart]

how a wagon moves, what the counterwagons are. who gets on and who doesn't.
none of this is different for a policy lynch than a regular lynch.

They still exist, true, but with a policy lynch, people's reasons for joining or not joining it are generally not related to their alignment.

[Something_Smart]

People with numbers in their username are ten times more likely to be evil.

Since I'm an SK, guess I better switch to my alt iiSq5024 then

[Something_Smart]

I mean u going hard defense on TSE, and that's info that's gonna be useful tomorrow. More useful if we know what TSEs align is.
So yer 'no info from policy lynches' stance is kinda nonsensisical.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Any information you think you'll get from me defending TSE is invalid, because I would be defending him here regardless of my alignment.

what do ya think of me pushing for a info lynch, yet calling info lynching crappy?

I don't see an issue, because it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that today's lynch will be a crappy one

[Something_Smart]

the numbers are the start of Pi - clearly a metaphor for the irrational decisions he’ll make town make.

I chuckled.

[Something_Smart]

Hi Drixx! \o/

[Something_Smart]

Catching up.

See you in 6 hours

[Something_Smart]

Not a fan of 251, but it could very well be playstyle. I've only ever seen Fonz as scum and he's definitely an old-school type player.

[Something_Smart]

so lets save the mod a replace and lynch a scummy slot with a useless role?

Bodyguard is literally an innocent child in the long run, assuming there exists at least one town role that scum need to kill.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think this setup can be won through coalition unfortunately which means early game is gonna kinda suck

I mean I wouldn't exactly be looking forward to the prospect of making a 26-player townbloc...

[Something_Smart]

People who keep saying that the wagon on TSE is just a policy lynch are not reading the game

It is though, you may have a genuine scumread on him but you're scumreading him because his playstyle comes off as superficially scummy.

[Something_Smart]

From what game?

[Something_Smart]

Let's get some more votes on KM here. That "wheel" shit is abomination and is nearly enough on its own. Then the "look at me, I have reads" post followed by deflection when pressed to explain the scum leans. That's not town motivated.

TSE and Ank both did similar gimmicks in TvA, and they were town. Why is this different?

[Something_Smart]

._.

Pardon me for not accepting your reasoning as valid then.

[Something_Smart]

365 kind of implied that you had more reasoning that you thought people should be aware of, though, right? Like it's one thing to say "it's not a policy lynch" but another to say "if you think it's a policy lynch, you aren't reading."

[Something_Smart]

Say Noni claims loyal neighbouriser. What stops scum from roleblocking TrueSoulEnergy while killing Noni?

Nothing, but then that's a roleblock they can't be using elsewhere, and there's a lot of ways that could backfire (voyeur being the main one).

[Something_Smart]

Aside from TSE, I'd be willing to lynch profii, Elsa, Egix, Drixx.

This is an interesting scumlist and by interesting I mean I don't understand any of the reads and would appreciate at least a brief explanation. (If you already gave an explanation that I haven't seen yet then ignore this)

[Something_Smart]

I was talking about Nero's case, not my reasoning.

Nero's case is really obviously confbiased by the fact that he wants to policy lynch TSE, though...

[Something_Smart]

Oh look ... we have a KM partner showing up to try and make KM seem totally reasonable with the refusal to explain and attempts to deflect followed by running away.

This is kinda begging the question...

[Something_Smart]

Always.

I don't think it's semantics. I think Nero's case is flimsy and doesn't make any sense. I don't think there is any case against TSE that makes sense, and as a result I don't scumread TSE.

[Something_Smart]

Players that can not be on a scum team with nero.

TSE

I'm not sure I agree with this, actually.

[Something_Smart]

Okay, now that I think about it, calling out a neighbor for doing something scummy in the neighborhood is totally something scum-Drixx would do.

[Something_Smart]

And what's your read on TSE then? There's no need for someone else doing a case for you to scumread him.

I interacted with TSE about thirty times as much in Perfect Masquerade as I have here, and I still couldn't get a solid read on him. At one point I did have a solid townread on him, so maybe I should have trusted that, but he's very hard to get a bead on overall. I think he's more likely town than random here, primarily because of the claim and the conviction he seems to be showing in his Nero read, but it's not as though I'd be shocked if he flipped scum.

But more importantly, if his role is real, it's undoubtedly the right play to give him at MINIMUM a few days to get himself killed... it's not as though we have to worry about LYLO coming anytime soon.

[Something_Smart]

Spoiler:

Hi DDL

[Something_Smart]

Okay, caught up.

[Something_Smart]

how do you know his target will be alive tomorrow?

That's kinda the point of a bodyguard, no?

[Something_Smart]

You missed the mod explicitly explaining how Commuter escapes everything including STRONGMAN (which I took to be a hint Scum/SK may have the ability)

I mean I know what a commuter is, I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

[Something_Smart]

im....really missing something TSE is a loud BG. If he's not lynched today he targets ???? and if their target is still alive tomorrow they will announce that they were protected. You said matter of factly that their target will be alive tomorrow so......???

I mean I imagine scum-TSE wouldn't go "I'm a bodyguard and I targeted this dead guy."

[Something_Smart]

The odds of a scum strongman kill going through TSE's protection on N1, while nonzero, are ridiculously small, and anyway I'm fine mislynching a town BG if we got scum to burn a strongman shot on N1.

[Something_Smart]

Just because scum!X would do something doesn't make it worth mentioning on D1, unless it's something TOWN!X "totally wouldn't do".

Oh no, I'm aware. It was in response to my earlier comment that Drixx was a weird scumread to have. It wasn't really meant to be going anywhere yet.

I don't really subscribe to the philosophy that a certain subset of things are "worth mentioning" and everything else is not.

[Something_Smart]

you don't scum read TSE but you this TSE and I could be scumtogether?

I don't think it's likely, but I don't think your interactions are impossible as theater.

[Something_Smart]

One can do an asinine "The wheel says..." as any alignment. The fact that X and Y did it as town in some game doesn't mean that Z doing it this game is town. You're good enough to know that, so the fact that you're pushing that nonsense is troubling.

The problem with KM was the very close follow up presenting "actual" reads at a point when they weren't plausible to the game state. That was enough to get me to poke them. Their reaction to being poked was bad and just got worse until they abandoned the thread.

I'm not pushing anything; I just wanted more of an explanation, which is exactly what I got, so thank you.

What specifically was bad about their reaction to being poked?

[Something_Smart]

I misunderstood why you were referring to my scum range.

My bad on that one, it was just a random thought I had and I didn't really formulate in a way that was easy for others to parse.

[Something_Smart]

SS I didn't like the SK claim or the way he's made three separate posts just to say "hello" to people basically.

Imagine being happy to play with people? What makes you think I would say hello to people for any reason other than that I want to be friendly?

[Something_Smart]

Nero/Kirari block,

Talking about a two-player "block" right now is scummy.

Elaborate.

[Something_Smart]

Could someone just like, go ahead and site ban me? not that I deserve it per se, outside of maybe this post. But I keep trying to use Mafia as an escape from real world problems, and then not being able to play because of my real world depression/anger/seizures/brain/beingashittypersonandnotdeservinganyreprieve and then having to replace. So, like, can we just make it not possible for me, so I don't have to trap myself into the hurt of trying to play again. Not that it matters if I manage to get in the car tomorrow. Time will tell.

You can request a site ban. PM a listmod.

[Something_Smart]

I agree with whoever said that he seems more assertive than in TvA. There are multiple possible explanations of that but having a different alignment is definitely one of them.

So > rand town, but nothing conclusive. I would classify him as hard to read, for sure.

[Something_Smart]

I'm pretty sure multiple people mentioned they wanted to policy TSE, so I don't really know what about that you think is AtE.

[Something_Smart]

The first four votes were all naked which suggests it was just a random wagon for the most part? Given the biggest threat to a 50 player day one is inertia, I'm not sure why you'd be primarily concerned with five votes being too many or a "policy lynch" getting another 20. Town does have to start somewhere after all

On a reread maybe I was a bit too sensitive... but I'm sure you can understand why I thought that wagon was not exactly random?

[Something_Smart]

Like I think town is more likely to join in on a bandwagon to get the game rolling and meanwhile you're:
1) claiming SK
2) congratulating people on their scumday
and
3) complaining that an RVS wagon is a policy lynch when only one person had said as much

Wait who is your main? Have you not played with me before?

[Something_Smart]

I never said not to random wagon him? I said not to policy lynch him (and it wasn't complaining, either)...

[Something_Smart]

Where are you on Fonz/Elsa/Aaron?

No impression on any of them at the moment and I'm about to go to sleep.

If you want me to look into any of them, I can do that tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

Even if KM were town and actually thought I was scum ... it would be worthwhile to get that reasoning out there and engage me to reciprocate.

Not everyone thinks this way though, right? Plenty of people will, as town, ignore everything their scumread says and refuse to interact with them. (I have been on the receiving end of this many times.) Some people don't like getting into wall wars, and I don't blame them, because wall wars are stupid. (And honestly, if you DID want people to ignore your argument, getting into a wall war isn't a terrible way).

And actually, I see very few players intentionally try to make the game toxic as scum. I suspect you are thinking of a few high-profile scum players (kuribo, LLD, and RC come to mind), but that's a dirty tactic and liable to backfire if you're not absolutely amazing at spewing bullshit. While that could be what she is doing, it's far from the only possiblity.

[Something_Smart]

Also, it's easy as pie to claim roleblocked tomorrow, so why not claim it as scum.

Imagine forcing a scum roleblocker to stay on Titus every night.

That kinda sounds amazing, don't you think?

Even better, we might be forcing a scum roleblocker to stay on Titus... who is also scum, and we can lynch her on like D5 or D6 or something. Sounds like a win-win to me.

[Something_Smart]

And then there's no harm done if we leave her for a few days, right?

[Something_Smart]

KM clearly isn't ignoring everything I say.

Maybe not, but it seems like she's ignoring your attempts to start an actual dialogue, right? That's the kind of thing that's happened to me, where someone scumreads me, I say "let's talk about your reasons X, Y, and Z for thinking I'm scum and why I don't feel they're valid", and they respond with "shut up scum." Frustrating situation, yes, but I've seen it from both alignments. Is that how you would characterize this, and if not, what about it is different?

[Something_Smart]

I don't see any evidence to support that supposition.

I don't see any evidence to refute it, either.

[Something_Smart]

So can you tell me what you're trying to accomplish here S_S? You're engaging with me pretty heavily in an attempt to defend KM here ... but I've managed basically no traction there while one of the other things I pointed out today is a viable wagon. Like ... I would like to understand what you're trying to accomplish here.

- get inside your head so I can understand and hopefully read you better

- understand exactly why you think KM is scum so I can either join your push or try to convince you to weaken your read, depending on whether I agree with your reasoning (and it seems pretty shaky right now).

[Something_Smart]

"Unicorns exist!"
"Where's the evidence?"
"Same to you, can you prove they DON'T exist?"
"...what?"
"Checkmate."

Exactly. Drixx is the first person. He responded to me saying KM might be town by pointing out that I didn't have any evidence for it.

[Something_Smart]

Sure you do. Other people that KM isn't scum reading have weighed in and said that it's reasonable to ask for brief reasoning.

And all townies are reasonable, and scum never are?

Look, if you're trying to convince me that KM's being unreasonable, you don't need to, I already came to that conclusion on my own. But if you're trying to convince me she's scum, you need to show a link between unreasonableness and a red role PM, and I'm not sure one exists.

[Something_Smart]

I'll stop going off of memory and actually read the interaction now, but saying there's NO conceivable town motivation is an extremely strong claim.

[Something_Smart]

KM's reaction to being asked to share brief explanation of the reads displays no town motivation.

Okay, after rereading, I see not wanting to waste time doing something you don't see as useful at that stage of the game to be a plausible town motivation? Not everyone has unlimited time to play the game.

[Something_Smart]

Perhaps Mr Hectic informed tictac of it in their scum PT?

[Something_Smart]

"I didn't notice it, and everyone is me, so nobody could possibly have noticed it unless they were scum and were told about it."

[Something_Smart]

Reaction tests are good against the person being hammered?

That's news to me.

[Something_Smart]

Just the person I wanted. SS, please substantiate your Dolly townread from the hood.

Huh? I never said that, you must be thinking of someone else.

[Something_Smart]

I think I once randomly looked at a newbie game where an SE (that's right, not even a new player) fell for a hammertest gambit

So yes it can sometimes work

I've also seen a townie fakeclaim scum after what he thought was a hammer on someone else and subsequently get speedlynched. Just because it worked once doesn't mean it's good in general.

[Something_Smart]

He's right though. He still probably eats a scum nightkill even if he is scum.

[Something_Smart]

Fair enough.

[Something_Smart]

This shouldn't deter people from voting him if they think he's scum. I don't think his claim itself makes it more or less likely that he's scum honestly. I think that the fact that he felt pressured to claim despite being nowhere close to the lynch threshold is scum indicative. Dolly's vote immediately after that claim is gross though.

I disagree with every sentence here

It should absolutely deter people! If he's going to die anyway, you're wasting a lynch while giving the scumteam that would have killed him an extra kill.

That role is definitely more likely to be town than scum, especially given that it's novice and the scumteams here need all the help they can get. Of course it could be a fakeclaim, but it definitely leans him more town.

If he were scum who wanted to rush out a claim before he got killed... why wouldn't he claim something that gets immediate results? It's perfectly consistent with indignant town who is scared of pressure.

Dolly's vote isn't gross, it's her opinion that Rex's claim shouldn't save him. Expressing your opinion when it's weird or against the grain is towny.

[Something_Smart]

no scum will get lynched today b/c they'll al claim a pr

And then they will all nightkill each other and we'll live happily ever after and win. I fail to see the problem.

[Something_Smart]

I never said there is one. Is there a point here?

I mean I guess that's fair but in context it seemed like you were implying that Rex shouldn't be let off the hook just because he claimed PR. Is that what you were intending?

[Something_Smart]

The issue is that I don't see why any sensible person would do that...

It was Flavor Leaf, so yes, I agree with you

That said, it's also sensible to not claim scum as scum when you think you're hammered, so that argument goes both ways.

[Something_Smart]

What makes you so sure scum is going to kill him N1? He claimed novice, he can't get results on N1.

I never said N1, but this game is going to last a lot of phases. We can wait a while.

[Something_Smart]

Was this sarcasm?

No. I don't generally think fake hammer reaction tests are that useful.

[Something_Smart]

Sawcon this rope

VOTE: insomnia

[Something_Smart]

Wow, this game has only been open five days. And here I am being afraid of deadline.

I wouldn't hate a Black Ranger wagon. Normally I'd suggest that we let the day go on as long as possible, but that will probably make this game more of a slog than it already is.

[Something_Smart]

BBmolla I appreciate the sentiment but that's annoying and it isn't exactly making this game more accessible. Complain to Wake by PM and figure out exactly what he doesn't like about what you were doing.

[Something_Smart]

Ey yo SS you going to that sawgma convention right? You’re a pokemon fan apparently

Nah, I don't like sawgma too much. It evolves into magcargo which is really slow and has double weaknesses to ground and water.

[Something_Smart]

Is drixx an IC or something?

Drixx was the IC in my first game, does that count

[Something_Smart]

Dsj shouldn't have been able to make such a good suggestion, because who is to say we don't have a hood of 3 or 4 people?

Even a hood of 3 or 4 players could reasonably be thought to be likely to contain scum, in a game where 1/4 the players are scum.

[Something_Smart]

Forgot to say that if Dsj were to flip scum, he has a partner in my hood. It smelled like a leak.

Or in a different hood, since they're all big?

[Something_Smart]

Titus thinking you die this game to anything other than a lynch is really wishful thinking

Even if there isn't a scum RB?

[Something_Smart]

They don't know if Titus is on the other scumteam, though.

Also if they were shooting at a confirmed town or claimed powerful PR, they might well block Titus since that's the obvious target for her to defend.

[Something_Smart]

It's rude to spam up the main thread like that; let's play in the scum PT.

[Something_Smart]

A scum vig.

That's called a serial killer, and we know there's one in the game already.

[Something_Smart]

My meme vote has become serious. Insomnia committed a henway.

[Something_Smart]

How do you know he was acting instead of thinking he was hammered?

I don't think he ever asserted that?

[Something_Smart]

A platitude that is both unhelpful and false.

[Something_Smart]

I'm town. I have plenty of buddies. It's hard to protect them all, especially from inane arguments like that one.

[Something_Smart]

I told you black ranger was clear and you still Wagoned

Naturally, the blame for miscommunication falls solely on the listener.

[Something_Smart]

So either you think there's more than one of us or one of us is lying.

There are like five vig claims, so very likely more than one is real.

[Something_Smart]

Chkflip looked real. Not sure about insomnia.

[Something_Smart]

On an unrelated note, since there are three killing factions and only two people died-- nice job, doc

[Something_Smart]

Glad to have brightened your day Drixx. I hope you feel better soon

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Black Ranger

[Something_Smart]

Also keep in mind that a mafia roleblocker flipped.

[Something_Smart]

I can go check, but the neighborhood's been dead for a while.

[Something_Smart]

KM said Amrun was town, RCE was town, pisskop was scum, and Titus was scummy bit could be town.

He also said "How much do you guys want to bet I get killed N1?"

Jackal said basically nothing.

[Something_Smart]

I'm assuming 3475 is a quote from Drixx's neighborhood, and not his scum PT, but someone confirming that would be nice

[Something_Smart]

Yes. Let me see if I can find the post with our hood members.

[Something_Smart]

@ Gobble

Eth0s
Jackal711
Something_Smart
Gold Robster
Kirari Momobami
Dolly Parton

[Something_Smart]

5 other players, since Nero is also in the hood.

[Something_Smart]

It's not out of the question for a 7-player hood to have two scum of the same color in it.

[Something_Smart]

Insomnia and Fonz showed up straightaway at day start and confirmed.

I meant the quote with the gif that links to a topic I don't have permission to view, lol.

[Something_Smart]

Ty. Never can be too careful.

[Something_Smart]

Imagine there being three scum factions with killing power and none of them accounted for.

[Something_Smart]

Nice, chkflip is town.

[Something_Smart]

literally if Wake has gone and made a 50p game with reduced nightkills there will be *words*.

That's not even normal.

[Something_Smart]

Elsa's town too, I think.

[Something_Smart]

Does a Doctor heal multiple kills? Does an Alien and/or Rolestopper block multiple kills? Jailkeeper too for that matter.

Doctor no, alien/rolestopper yes, jailkeeper yes.

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

I actually believe Jackal as a vig kill more than KM.

[Something_Smart]

Jackel the lurker would have been prime targeting material for all 4 possible kinds of kills.

Like I disagree with this, why would scum shoot a lurker?

[Something_Smart]

Do you believe Jackal as a vig from Black Ranger, who attacked the Jackal wagon over a KM vig from Drixx, who called KM scum all of yesterday?

I mean I don't doubt that Drixx killed KM, so it's not really a good comparison. I don't think it's likely that vig-BR kills Jackal, but I don't think it's likely that scum-BR-claiming-vig kills Jackal either.

The other thing is that BR is now uncc'd odd-night vig and that's a claim that's likely to eat some scum attention (kills, roleblocks, etc) even if it's fake.

[Something_Smart]

If you don't doubt Drixx killed KM, then any scum or SK scenario has to factor in that that claiming vig then doing that is not a viable long-term survival strategy. Drixx claimed to try to get BR lynched, BR claimed to try to save his own life.

That's fair, I guess.

VOTE: Black Ranger

[Something_Smart]

Guys we're trying not to lynch him until we atleast get other stuff done. Jeez.

What stuff?

[Something_Smart]

Normally I'd be on your side, Elsa.

But this is a 50p game. There will be PLENTY of time for that.

[Something_Smart]

Let everyone, or at least everyone who's not a chronic lurker, check in first. We literally had someone claim role info a couple of posts up from this post.

Right, we just have to wait until the mod finds six people willing to replace into a 147-page game. Should be easy.

I'll give you the VT claim thing though, that's fair. If someone is null/lurky and VT, claim it so Fonz can check you.

[Something_Smart]

*scrabbles note*
That's problematic.

But it's also confirmed that there was a scum roleblocker able to act last night.

[Something_Smart]

Sorry, missed that part. Mb

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

Our neighborhood is The Quiet Place. Alyssa replaced Golden Robster, btw.

[Something_Smart]

Elsa is a night 7 multitasking vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante vigilante confirmed.

[Something_Smart]

Garmr's also town, excellent.

[Something_Smart]

Did we get a VT claim yet for Fonz?

[Something_Smart]

Did some looking overnight. Pretty sure Rhinox is town.

He was cautious in 3885 when he could have just voted.

[Something_Smart]

If Alyssa really has a guilty, she should claim it in the neighborhood before gobble claims.

I asked her but she hasn't responded yet.

[Something_Smart]

I have a power role that shouldn't be effected by any actions during the night phase (hider)

So who were your targets, and where are your crumbs?

[Something_Smart]

Btw why do people expect everyone to have crumbs

Weak roles should always always crumb, no exceptions.

[Something_Smart]

I mean that's fine when you aren't weak, but if you're weak and die at night people need to know who you targeted.

[Something_Smart]

I think PenguinPower specifically said not to discuss it.

Of course, he gave that instruction knowing full well that nobody would obey it.

[Something_Smart]

Speaking of that, can someone refresh me on if Ranger and Drixx claimed the same kill target?

They didn't. They each claimed one of the N1 kills.

[Something_Smart]

With the SK dead... That either means Drixx claimed a Groupscum Kill, or 2 out of 3 of the scum kills missed or got crossed over.

Wouldn't it be 3 out of 3 missed or duplicated? Because we already know BR shot Jackal.

[Something_Smart]

You mean the same Drixx that shot scum? Drixx didn't fake that.

News flash, there are some people who have the ability to kill who are nevertheless not town.

[Something_Smart]

Imagine sticking up for each other in a team game.

[Something_Smart]

I mean it's not like Elsa actually knows the answer or can somehow prevent Titus from being able to answer. I've heard of that tell but only in the context of "gotcha" questions where the asker wanted to know if the person was aware of something and then someone else answers it and makes it moot. This isn't like that.

[Something_Smart]

I did NOT gunsmith check Nero.

So what DID you do then?

[Something_Smart]

What are your JOAT powers?

[Something_Smart]

[Something_Smart]

I really don't give a shit about a buncha my scum reads try to talk down to me and make it look like I'm some meanie.

I mean, you certainly aren't being nice.

[Something_Smart]

Something_Smart seemingly softed an innocent result on Rhinox.

I didn't. Though it was pretty random so I see why it looks it.

[Something_Smart]

Okay, that's pretty funny. It looks like just an optical illusion but if you look closely it actually is animated...

[Something_Smart]

I admit Nero reminds me a lot of my abusive husband, yelling until he gets his way with no rhyme, reason etc. He's drowning out my abilities to sort.

Probably don't make comparisons like this, please?

[Something_Smart]

Note: in this post I'm using Nero's definitions of red and blue -- I don't remember which was which tbh. And I don't want to open another tab to check if he's trying to trap me with colors.

Town.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: ar98mubarik

[Something_Smart]

It only exists in the minds of people who incorrectly interpret my meta.

[Something_Smart]

This game is a farce