Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Taly]

I'm doing the mafTiger theme this whole ass game, so, all of y'all are morally obligated to immediately choose how long I remain in this game pending on how sane you want me to be.

Hello! I am Y'shtola Rhul, a scholar in aetherology and member of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

Feel free to ask me questions at any time!

yo, wanna wagon with me?

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

tElL mE mOrE aBoUt BeInG a ToWn PoTaTo

[Taly]

I’m so excited to get back into mafia! Thanks everyone for playing with me, I don’t think I’ve met any of y’all before.
VOTE: Taly, I think you may be the exception! Do you remember me at all?

yay votes

Your user seems a bit familiar, but did you go by another user?

welcome back Tal , I am coming back to mafia. With everything shutting down there is not much else to do

Same, but I do like the mental stimulation of it when I have time.

Also, very OP role man, where should my vote be right now?

[Taly]

ooof light bulb


I think I do remember

istott

Hi, friends! I'm here to kick ass and have fun, and I'm all out of ass.

Initial reads list:

eyestott
Atarashi Hajimari
Taly
robbnva
TheFuzzylogic99
Aloratom
Y'shtola Rhul
Wiisp

VOTE: Wiisp

That's a bit quick for reads, could you explain them?

Also, RVS is a bit boring for my tastes

Fuzzy

, instead of focusing on your own alignment, you got any ideas on others?

@ Paragon...
why Wisp? any particular reason

No RVS vote + hasn't weighed in on anything useful on page 1, but does joke about your post in a way which doesn't really help to solve you (in 26).

those aren't very good reasons

Then what are?

also hi

wiisp

ily bb

[Taly]

Then what are?

Nothing AI has really happened yet.

I'm asking you what you think could be AI and what you're doing to resolve that, as you've been present but haven't asserted much input.

post 32 is a bit scummy in the way I generally find "tell me but don't show me" behavior scum indicative. VOTE: FuzzyLogic99

It's equally odd to me that you enter the game asserting someone's posting as scummy, and this person happens to have multiple votes on them already, without much detail on the reasonings why.

It's easier to push someone when there's other people to pay attention to.

I looked for good Umbreon avatars but couldn't really find any. Kamek will have to do. I'm holding a Lucky Egg; the hope is Bowser won't smite me this time.

Taly: I think it's suboptimal (a lot of effort) for me to elaborate on all my reads. Is there one you particularly want to hear the reasoning for?

I just don't follow how you can make a list of 8 people and assert a vote with less than 30 posts of content.

I'm doing the mafTiger theme this whole ass game, so, all of y'all are morally obligated to immediately choose how long I remain in this game pending on how sane you want me to be.

Hello! I am Y'shtola Rhul, a scholar in aetherology and member of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.

Feel free to ask me questions at any time!

yo, wanna wagon with me?

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

tElL mE mOrE aBoUt BeInG a ToWn PoTaTo

Sure, I'm willing to help with wagons.

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

That's all? I need more to work with.

[Taly]

@tali
Ok Wooper

hehe, do you have more to add than

"I don't do RVS"

and

"tali!"

,

wiiiiiiiissppppppppi

?

I'm playing the low information stage of the game, Taly. I don't quite follow your beef. You like what I've done less than, say, Y'shtola's vote on the same slot?

Oh, I don't really care for

Y'shtola's

vote either but I was talking about yours. Town has definitely posted in the past 2 pages, who do you think they are?

Is there anything specific that you would like to know, Taly?

I liked that you're not afraid to put a vote down, but do you even have a reason to suspect

Fuzzy

? How do you feel about

pops'

vote since she is concerned with yours?

[Taly]

My best guess at town would be Conspire. They made a solvish post.

Well, there's one thing we agree on.

Is there anything specific that you would like to know, Taly?

I liked that you're not afraid to put a vote down, but do you even have a reason to suspect

Fuzzy

? How do you feel about

pops'

vote since she is concerned with yours?

I am afraid that the aether of the players within the game are muddled for me at the moment. If you ask me later on, I might have a clearer idea of whether they are Warriors of Light or Sin Eaters.

Meh... so you don't have any specific read? What's your vote for?

@tali
Not yet, also I am at work for a while, I'll be back later
How do you vote and unvot on this site again?

It's in the editing tabs, click preview in the editing box and you'll get to it

or just type VOTE: [/ vote] without spaces.

[Taly]

oooh, this post slipped past my p-edit

I agree with popsofctown's Conspire read.

Taly: They're not confident reads. Just initial thoguhts/feelings. I generally have a 15% chance of having scum as my lowest read when I do these initial reads lists, so bear with me, they're not bad!

OK, I like this response. If you were going to downplay your reads as scum, it would've made more sense to backtrack on

Wiisp

or reassert a read there. Or, inflate reads further by trying to add more depth than just thoughts or feelings when there's no strong base to have them.

And while it's unusual for someone to tell me

"bear with me"

when they're formulating a reply, it feels genuine here.

+1

p-edit

Is there anything specific that you would like to know, Taly?

I liked that you're not afraid to put a vote down, but do you even have a reason to suspect

Fuzzy

? How do you feel about

pops'

vote since she is concerned with yours?

I am afraid that the aether of the players within the game are muddled for me at the moment. If you ask me later on, I might have a clearer idea of whether they are Warriors of Light or Sin Eaters.

Meh... so you don't have any specific read? What's your vote for?

Did you not ask for my vote? I voted to help you wagon TheFuzzylogic99 as requested.

Yeah, but why did you? I asked, I didn't demand.

[Taly]

Yeah, I'm not feeling the apathy

rob

, quote me when you're feeling this game unless I end up voting you, which is probably soon.

Also, RVS doesn't exist in my eyes. Someone posted readslist, that's game content to engage in for everybody. The whole plist has posted. There's about 4 people who've made comments that border

"let's wait for something to happen, it's not me doing something"

so unfortunately town must be within this group. I say unfortunately because the mentality to wait feels like a deflection from actually participating.

Y'shtola

, are you an alt or new to mafia?

Pops

, so we agree on one read, are there any other reads you want to discuss? Tbh, I don't feel confident in placing

Fuzz

anywhere yet, they've done little but self-reference their alignment and they're not active in the thread when a wagon has sprouted on them. I'd push the wagon but the fact that people kept jumping on it for reasons less understood is what makes second-guess a push. Plus, I didn't vote

Fuzz

because I scumread him, I wanted to see other people's responses. It'd feel weird if I framed that as something else.

Wiisp

, you dipped, is 1 post the only interesting thing in the thread? I disagree.

Paragon

, I think role-fishing is counterproductive and harmful for town at this early in the game. Explain your scumreads if you don't want to give justification for town. I do also want to know what changed with your

Wiisp

read.

VOTE: Taco - Is this a wagon you'd like to follow? You were the latest vote on the wagon and with the least excuse to dismiss the thread.

Robb -- You feeling this game yet?

Why ask Robb this of everyone?

If you guys are best buds, I need to know now so that I can try and kill you together.

Robb's a good guy. As far as I know there's no reason to lol either of us.

hehe, I can lol you both after I'm done with

Taco

, don't worry

[Taly]

I don’t appreciate people threatening to lynch me cause I don’t play to their standards.

If I were "threatening" you, I'd have thrown a vote down and my intentions would've been

far

more obvious, I guarantee you.

I don't think your defensiveness is scum-indicative Actually, I'm thinking the opposite, which is why I pushed for a reply from you.

But really, my posting so far has been pretty light-hearted I thought. I'm not waving pitchforks and torches to maliciously attack you, damn.

I don’t appreciate people threatening to lynch me cause I don’t play to their standards.

I dont care for people threatening to death tunnel because someone asked them to play the game
and personally I believe the game was not still in RVS when you decided to post your comment

How do you feel about

Fuzzy

?

Y'shtola Rhul! What comes to mind when you think of Aloratom?

Other than how handsome he is obviously.

I like this post!

Any other posts the past 4 pages?

[Taly]

Noted, I think our playstyles just clashed a bit.

[Taly]

Any other posts the past 4 pages?

There's not a whole lot there. I don't have much of a handle yet.

So what helps you gain a handle?

Enters with an RVS on himself
Talks about his role being super secret
Came back to mafia because people are dying in real life

the only game-related thing so far is him questioning why Paragon voted me?
and then finally unvoting himself in post #58

#32
seems kinda pure I guess

What makes you think 32 is pure?

Pops

said it was scummy. 37

Fuzzy

, do you have any opinions on your wagon? I find it odd that a lot of people are looking at the thread and practically dismissing the fact that there are votes there, and no other wagons are being formed.

p-edit

<3

please only pocket me if you're town

wiisp

kthanksily

[Taly]

Hey

Ame

!



I asked

Y'shtola

her experience since I've seen newer players be more passive in gameplay before, or at least a

"I'll engage as you want and we'll see where it goes"

mentality, which is also common in players generally at gamestart.

She's new, so I don't think her posts are agenda-based, if she were scum, I'd also think she may be more avoidant of a direct player as yours truly.

The people I'm more suspicious of right now are

Pops

1)

Upon asking for her vote, she diverts the attention toward someone on the same wagon.

2)

She has not been present much beyond just suspecting a wagoned player, it's hard to find nuance off of her current posts.
and

Taco

1)

He was the most recent on

Fuzzy

wagon but hasn't even followed-through with the reasoning of his vote.

2)

Kind of just dismissed the votes on him.

Even then, these aren't notable scumreads at the moment. Also

{Eyestott, Aloratom, Rabid Schauzer}

are all different shades of

"idk"

as I don't know of anything memorable they've or done so far. I doubt this is an all town group.

I have 2, maybe 3 solid townreads right now, and if they're all town, this game becomes much easier. Since this game has begun slowly, it's harder to parse what lack of activity or contribution is town or scum motivated... so I'm trying to avoid the trap of townreading whoever engages with me.

[Taly]

Ame!

I'm not digging into this game super easily so far.

Wiisp is becoming a townread, because of the reverse survivalism inherent in aggravating Robbnva without actually getting votes onto him (man part of me wants to abbreviate "Robbnva" but I have played with Rob14 before and that makes it feel kinda wrong?)

I sympathize with Taly scumreading my slot, he wasn't explicit about it but I sense he's fairly allocating a Burden of good player on people, likewise giving Y'shtola a pass. Y'shtola seems to play kind of scummy as town, to me, I was in the mason game, although in that game being a mason is actually surprisingly similar to being scum so I'm not sure how much that counts for. I hope she plays later.

How nasty are nomnomnom's deadline? I'm not actually minding the slow pace in terms of fun factor, but if AI needs to be to be forced out then yada yada

I want you to review the interactions I've had thus far with

Wiisp

and would like to hear if you're currently thinking we're S/S, S/T, or T/T, and why.

Could you link the game with

Y'shtola

?

And what do you mean by

"Burden of good player?"

Hey

Ame

!

Tai! I didn't recognize you without the rwby gifs. So this is what you look like as town.

What makes you so confident I'm town? In-game examples please.

Warriors of Light (no particular order):

Taly, Paragon, Yshtola, Alo, New Beginnings

Angelic (npo):

eyestott*, Robb, Taco

Demonic (npo):

Rabid Schnauzer, Fuzzy, Wisp

Sin Eaters:

pops

VOTE: pops

*keeping my eyes on eyes

What do you see in

Alo

?

Thank you, eyestott! I am glad someone else sees what I'm seeing regarding Y'shtola Rhul. I do feel a little bad now however since this is only her second game. I will give her time to state more opinions before deciding whether I would like to re-place my vote there. Looking forward to part 2!

I want to see more reasoning on your

eyestott

townread?

158 is a thoughtful post but

eyestott

has done little but compile reasons to case

Y'shtola

. His vote is not even on the wagon. I want to hear his take on

Alo

but I'm not confidently feeling town there.

p-edit

Ame

, what makes you feel so confident that

Pops

is scum? Is this meta?

[Taly]

y'all are gettin' some fuckin' homework assignments from me

[Taly]

takin sips of wine each time I get voted this game, might make mafTiger a little nicer around the edges

...I'm a lightweight so I'll just do win GIFs instead of tigers to liven things up...

I independently read you as scummish and Wiisp as townish, I generally avoid preflip associatives unless I feel naturally led into them because I think they're inherently bad. I'm going to decline your exercise, Taly. I could go into either read, if you like, though.

do you need another invitation to actually explain a read you brought up, and I've already previously questions?

let's see if this helps: VOTE: popsofctown

[Taly]

I don't follow 188 at all, I have no alts.

And if you mean I have burden of good player going on, are you implying that I'm faking suspicion on you? Or that I'm SUPPOSED to have caught scum by now? Or was burden of good player a reference to you?

Pops

, I don't remember if we've ever completed a game together, and it's been months since I've started mafia again in the past couple of weeks. So I don't know how you think I'm playing effectively unless you have in-game reason to think so.

and certainly not wolfy unless maybe you squint your eyes very hard

squint your eyes, I want to see a good reason to suspect me.

I want to see more reasoning on your eyestott townread?

It is simply a genuineness/toneread. I believe him.

+1

[Taly]

It's a little IIoAish how 1 and 4 are just listed without being broken down into analysis. When I perceived this as playing the low information phase I didn't think it was as big of a deal but now it's clear that Taly is treating my slot with more gravitas it's concerning.
pedit: ignoring pedits

What does

IIoAish

mean? hUh? Kind of done with all these buzzwords people use in mafia games, it's much easier if someone used their own words instead of slapping a label to them that could mean different things to others.

I don't think we're at low information anymore.

And what's concerning about me trying to sort you? I've focused on much more people in this game than you.

Even if you think I'm scum, do you really think the suspicion I have for you is unjustified? You haven't directly communicated with my questions and your responses are either meant to shift focus onto another person or to state why me engaging with you is invalid.

It's defensive and it doesn't come across as genuine,

pops

.

p-edit

I don't follow 188 at all, I have no alts.

And if you mean I have burden of good player going on, are you implying that I'm faking suspicion on you? Or that I'm SUPPOSED to have caught scum by now? Or was burden of good player a reference to you?

Pops

, I don't remember if we've ever completed a game together, and it's been months since I've started mafia again in the past couple of weeks. So I don't know how you think I'm playing effectively unless you have in-game reason to think so.

and certainly not wolfy unless maybe you squint your eyes very hard

squint your eyes, I want to see a good reason to suspect me.

I want to see more reasoning on your eyestott townread?

It is simply a genuineness/toneread. I believe him.

+1

Burden of a good player is a reference to me, I think you're giving me the third degree because I'm capable of a strong day 1. Even if you haven't played with me, people pick up on diction, the join date, etc. You can kind of tell these things. I returned to site after a break last year, I figured out who the veterans were.

I don't have high expectations on you.
UNVOTE:
My best townread says Taly is town.
VOTE: Ame
Boop

LOL

I have NOT read a game you're in recent memory. Join date doesn't mean much to me above someone having like 1-2 games of mafia in

Y'shtola's

case. (((I thought you wanted to talk about her vote on

Fuzzy

btw?))))

And I've played mafia on/off since 2014. If you want to talk to me about joindate, diction, and veterans - apply the same concept to me and I don't outright change your read on me because you think my play is poor.

I guess my scumread on you was correct?
-You mention

Burden of Good Player"

in reference to reading me... 159
-Your post that contains the vote on me doesn't even pertain to me. 184
-You don't elaborate even after you say I'm scummy and I question you... 186
-You also seem concerned at the fact that I'm even paying attention to you. 195
-You don't explain your original post so when you give the definition of

"Burden of Good Player"

it feels like a complete backtrack, especially since you unvoted and are hopping onto the

next person that is on your wagon

. 198

This progression reads to me as

"Oh,

Taly

suspected me, gotta discredit that and move to the next person who thinks I'm scum"

[Taly]

Ame

, I'm waiting for them reasons. You gotta voice what you feel most confident in.

Paragon

, calm with the role and setup spec... we don't need to give scum anymore information and there's nothing we can do as town about roles at this moment.

[Taly]

Discrediting you? In one of my posts I pointed out that treating players differently for their experience is something I consider valid.

Instead of just regurgitating what I confront you about through a question, can you look inward and see why I think that? Or am I completely misinterpreting your gameplay here?

IIoAish is when you fake scumhunting by stating facts that seem poignant but don't actually explain how they make someone scum or town.

I just gave a lot of reason behind my suspicion on you. Originally, it was very little, I wasn't even feeling a scumread on you until this past page. So it's weird that you're already articulating this narrative that I'm disingenuous in my gamesolving when I just was stating suspicion to engage with you, and that my reasons for scumreading you are fake when you didn't ask the purpose behind them.

You didn't go for a conversation with me, you went to

"how can I muddy the waters and paint this as scum-indicative for

Taly

?"

It's even more evident because you unvoted me when I gave you pushback. It's dismissive when you just write me off as

"I have no expectations for you so you may not be scum"

when you haven't even engaged with a teamwork mindset.

It doesn't feel town.

For example, why is including a vote in a post that discusses a different person scum indicative?

OK, let's break this down.

post 32 is a bit scummy in the way I generally find "tell me but don't show me" behavior scum indicative. VOTE: FuzzyLogic99

You vote

Fuzzy

and give reasoning.

It's equally odd to me that you enter the game asserting someone's posting as scummy, and this person happens to have multiple votes on them already, without much detail on the reasonings why.

It's easier to push someone when there's other people to pay attention to.

I explain how that could feel opportunistic as a way to bring momentum to the first wagon (as I think you were the third vote on the wagon at the time), notice I never said you were scum. I was wanting to hear more for your perspective on why the wagon should've kept momentum.

I'm playing the low information stage of the game, Taly. I don't quite follow your beef. You like what I've done less than, say, Y'shtola's vote on the same slot?

You shift to inquiring about

Y'shtola

. Yes, you replied to my questioning in 55 but you didn't follow up about

Y'shtola

until later, so I don't know why you emphasized discussion about that other than you just wanted to change the subject.

[Taly]

Fair. I'll take a breather, then. Goodnight

pops

and the thread I'll read more tomorrow and reevaluate if I must.

But I am starting to feel a bit more energized to play the game.

p-edit

I moved my vote off of Fuzzy because he's pretty afk and when slots are only incrementally past randscum it's better to poke slots that can respond just to develop the game. Do you disagree with that philosophy?

Nope. Part of my unvote from

Fuzzy

was to sort him without directly pushing or entertaining his wagon.

Every slot I mention or speak to in my posts (which can be multiple at once) is meant to poke and develop the game in several aspects.

[Taly]

Paragon

, since this exercise was ignored previously and I want to see more of your input on a few things:

Wiisp/Taly

- S/S-S/T-T/T

pops/Ame

- S/S-S/T-T/T

If either group contains scum, why?

Wiisp

, do you have any notable reads or thoughts on anybody I mention below?

Y'shtola

, where's your vote going right now? Is it still

Fuzzy

? If so, I'm sorely unconvinced.

:/ Other than this I'm really just waiting for

Rabid/Fuzzy/Taco/Robb

to engage and

eyestott/Ame

to continue their reads/explanations.

[Taly]

Hello Taly!

Is there anywhere in particular my vote should be at? I still require more to be able to judge upon my own merits.

OK, then look at this past page between

pops/I

And comment on

Paragon's

230

While you're at it, respond to

eyestott's

post on you, it was a few pages ago.

I have no way of verifying this, Robb. I have only seen you as town and you were more present in the game by this stage. Thank you for he question.

scum in general are more aware. Every game I am involved in, it's because somebody has done something that is so blatantly scummy or somebody has lied about me. neither of those things have happened.

plus i have adopted a new philosophy which I have used in a couple games already and will use going forward. I will vote anyone but myself. especially day 1.

You could vote somewhere or join a wagon, we actually have one based off reads.

We got fucking cookies

p-edit

Yeah, chaos can be... helpful in gamesolving later when a bunch of town have already killed each other.

[Taly]

Conspire's

not even in the plist and I'm sure is

Paragon's

alt who he accidentally posted under 38 and 39

I don't know how this detail was missed.

How about you comment on what's present in the game right now?

[Taly]

Taly, could I hear your opinion on Ame/pops interactions and where you think the Ts and Ss should go please?

2

I'll have a better idea when

Ame

posts her rationale, but my original impression of her entrance is that this is not quite like what little I know of her to be scum. I think her strongly stated confidence can go either town or scum. I do agree with her read on

pops

but I don't know how she came to her conclusions there, same with this slot. Ultimately, she's a town lean because she hasn't posted any fluff so far, so her stances feel less contrived.

Pops

is someone I want to read a bit at a distance for the moment. Most of her interaction with the thread has been through me, so I'm waiting for her to actually initiate with other people. I don't see a reason to change my vote from the wagon or my read there. I lean scum but my odds with

Pops

can be playstyle, still, her reactions in the game don't feel too natural and I'd figure she would have had more nuanced opinions about the plist so far.

This isn't high confidence but I doubt this is T-T. S-T most likely. S-S is possible if

Ame

is intentionally trying to hard-buss her partner to get credit, but there's little evidence for that yet and this is a train of thought I won't act on until one of them flips scum.

Pops'

vote flip from me to

Ame

was also very quick in my eyes, which is more of something to note for now and inquire about later. I'm more confident in

Ame

town and

Pops

scum, but I'm not ruling out T-T just yet either, or even

Ame

-scum

Pops

-town.

pops-scum/ame-town

is my most confident answer at this moment.

[Taly]

Hello Taly!

Is there anywhere in particular my vote should be at? I still require more to be able to judge upon my own merits.

OK, then look at this past page between

pops/I

And comment on

Paragon's

230

While you're at it, respond to

eyestott's

post on you, it was a few pages ago.

Sure!

I looked at your posting with popsofctown on the last page.

I can not comment on Paragon's thoughts on Ame, as I am not versed in his thoughts. I disagree with his thoughts on pops, as she seemed more interested in directly pushing the game her own way the only other time I saw it. I'm not certain where the difference comes from, but it is noteworthy to be sure. His Wiisp and Taly thoughts are not reasons I would use to townread somebody. He seems inexperienced.

Which eyestott post? I did not see any questions addressed towards me from that slot, even after checking all of his posts within this game.

158 is

eyestott's

post. It's his first major post of content and it's about you, but you didn't engage.

By disagree with

Paragon's

opinion do you mean you scumread or understand the suspicion on

pops

?

Designed by RadiantCowbells and reviewed by Schadd_

I knew post restrictions were not normal, and these guys know the normal rules better than I do. Lynch Paragon.

When you said you'd catch-up I thought you meant focusing on more than one slot.

Why is

Paragon

scum here? I get the role-fishing is a red flag, but

Paragon

has little gain to lie about his posting.

For this to be an intentional lie, it's poorly thought out. The questioning/quota thing could also be an excuse to play a specific way, but I want to know what you see.

I could be down for a paragon lynch

So what's more appealing about a

pops

lynch?

UNVOTE: Taly
Proper post once I’ve gotten out of bed.

Spoiler:

Don't forget I'm still waiting for yours, too

Posting restrictions are prohibited in normal games. It's either not true or a mod error and it needs to be resolved.

@MOD
I'd also like this clarified, if it's allowable.

[Taly]

ame

I want to townread you damn it

makin me drink here

[Taly]

hey, I'll get to your questions tomorrow

Ame

it's late for me, I need to get into a better sleep schedule. The state of public health, lockdown, and personal life changes at the moment has put me into a very up-and-down piss-poor mood.

so if anybody has any more questions, please ask and I'll get to them all tomorrow.

goodnight lovelies, I'm loving the game momentum. It's a good mix between low and high energy that isn't chaotic or unnecessary.

[Taly]

im giving all of you happy love vibes as i drink SunnyD juice as im slowly falling asleep

<3

[Taly]

Brush your teeth. Don’t want to get cavities

yeah im doing that after i drink juice since toothpaste makes juice taste like shit

going off to bed fr now

[Taly]

@

Taly

1. How do you find Yshtola's Fuzzy vote suspicious? She didn't need reasoning because she was just wagoning with you as requested. It's weird to me that you kept pressing her for reasoning when it was obvious she had none.
2. How had I not posted anything BUT fluff up until now? This is really weird. Like all my opening posts were non-game related and being silly. And the only game-related thing I really posted was a naked read list with no elaboration.

1)

Not sure if suspicious is the best word, I didn't expect that

Y'shtola

would follow my vote and practically said I was accountable for it. I was trying to see their playstyle or at least get some form of solve going for them but they haven't done anything that outright strikes me as scum-motivated but they also haven't done anything that shows a lot of autonomy in their thoughts. I do actually agree with

pops

about

Y'shtola's

passivity but there's other players that I'm wanting to push, so I'm just engaging/pressuring her hoping to a get a foothold about her slot.

2)

You came in voting and giving reads, your presence sparked a bit of conversational activity the other night and your entrance actually helped me form some of my reads a bit better. Naked readslist aren't necessarily void of information and that's why I've been prodding you for more nuanced opinions since entered the thread with confident reads I agree with

pops/eyestott/robb/paragon (weaker now)

. I also want your opinions so I can dive into your thought process to help me solve you. Even when you have any fluffy posts, they're not convoluted and are easy to follow, and you ask questions consistently. My take on your posting is that it's not meant to make the game harder to read by its presence. That's a trait of an actively engaged player.

No one has PTs with just the town aligned players, so why are attempts at deception necessarily targeted at other townies and not the mafia?
VOTE: Robbnva for a potential perspective slip.

I also have a post restriction to my role, but it doesn't trigger unless Y'shtola votes me.

Yo, Y'shtola, mind voting Pops and testing this claim?

Also, I don't vibe with

Robb

scum here?? He has no developed opinion about tunneling people beyond he knows its part of his personality, which he even acknowledges how that may harm a game... This doesn't strike me as scum using their gamestyle to cause chaos as

Robb

would be less self-aware or even more aggressive.

Robb

has not diffused responsibility from this behavior yet, so I don't think it's scum-indicative.

And why do you care about mafia being deceived? Or are you trying to say that

Robb

is scum covering up a lie that's directed to his supposed partners?

I'm genuinely confused by your train of thought. Help.

pops do you have a posting restriction?

This was asked 3 times while

pops

was present in the thread and ignored all those times.

pops

, if you're going to try and defend another person's claim with your own claim - when both claims argue against the mechanic of Normals - could you least try to be transparent?

Yeah,I meant post dodge but my brain froze- ugh

I don't get Paragons post restriction bit as it has been confirmed that Post restrictions are non-normal. So either he either doing it for fun or he has a role that requires him to lie.
Either seems likely at this point. Speaking of Paragon if he flips town then I would bet that there is at least one scum maybe two on that wagon. I am not if any scum might be bussing as it a hard thing to tell early in the game. There seems to be quite a few jumping on the Paragon wagon with no to little reason which makes me a bit nervous about his wagon

I played with the Great Boon last game.....It was very entertaining, I can confirm that he does all those things.

Oh ok- I played Rob . Played against his alt Wimpy and Jake from state farm. Been a while though so I don't remember much about his playstyle

This was a lot of very little, any thoughts aside from just one person?

Someone please engage with me in a way where I can treat this like a NORMAL game of mafia
I wanna have a conversation with someone and develop some townreads. I think my mind needs calibration because right now I don’t think I’m actually townreading anyone

I'm done with anything regarding roles, I don't how the fuck we got to discussing claims when nobody entered L1 at least.
I don't feel strongly about several votes on

Paragon

, I don't think his claim makes sense as scum alone, but I'm feeling iffy on

pops'

reply to it. I am less confident in

Paragon

town though.
I scumread

pops

, you can ISO quickly and read from 187 to 211 for the progression why.

Fuzzy

has done nothing but is present.

Taco

has done nothing and isn't present.
I think you're town as you actually make sense as opposed to a good portion of the playerlist.

Ame

is probably town as I don't think she entered constructing this powerplay narrative, it feels like coherent gamesolving. I don't want to lynch.

Wiisp

is probably town as he's had some of the least popular opinions in the game and nobody has quickly gamesolved with him, based on his interactions, I like his perspective for town. I don't want to lynch.

Robb

is probably town for reasons I defended him in this post above. Leaning toward not lynching.
I can see a world where

Rabid

is town but I don't know why they haven't even hinted at the other wagons or even townreads, his push could be genuine or forced.
I still don't quite know about

Y'shtola

tbh, I think not lynching D1 would yield a better look into their alignment?

Alo

hasn't really pinged me yet, I'm going to need to reread him. What's your take there?

Am I going crazy? How on earth is it that TWO SEPARATE PEOPLE are claiming posting restrictions in a normal game?
It can’t be a coincidence can it?


Pedit: I give up. VOTE: Popsofctown
Will remove my vote once Yshtola votes Beyoncé here

Pops is joking.
Paragon is pretending that his self-imposed restriction is official.

It is as simple as that.

How did you conclude this?

p-edit

Did two people replace out because I fake claimed a post restriction? I just don't understand

wtf

[Taly]

oh my god

[Taly]

i just got mindfucked

[Taly]

I believe so, mhm. So, what was the point of these past few pages

pops

?

also hi

NDMat[/n].

[Taly]

The perspective slip thing with Rob is the idea that scum!Rob posts in the scum PT, "This is obviously fake, don't be fooled by this" (or more likely knows the personality of his teammates and doesn't have to), knows for certain the townie's lie has fully nullified impact on town, and then proceeds to go, "you are deceiving exclusively town, shame on you", slipping knowledge he shouldn't have about whether mafia was deceived. (after losing a large theme because a cop fake claimed in a way that kept me from nightkilling him I have nothing but eyerolls for the notion that it's never useful to try to deceive the mafia.)

I think the slot is somewhat townier than null now for other reasons.

I've never seen this concept played but I can imagine it, still, feels like there's multiple unknown variables there.

most of what I accomplished the last few pages is making eyestott an IC you should be proud. Please spray a bubblebeam of celebration

Is this supposed to change my read on you?

I'm wondering if you preemptively townread

eyestott

prior to the fakeclaim.

What are your scumreads?

[Taly]

I want the replacements to weigh-in but

pops

-town at this point would have me reevaluate several reads and parts of this game so far, and that's a lot of uncertainty to bring to light prior to flip especially on D1.

eyestott

, engage with me, I replied to you.

[Taly]

Oh Taly, i saw a response but I didn’t see an attempt to engage! Even looking back I’m not sure what you want to talk about, could you clarify?

Anything from the information I gave you. Your reads, my reads, the past several pages, people you want wagoned/lynched, how you feel about the fakeclaims etc.

[Taly]

While I refuse to place replace-outs in any AI category, I understand your logic and I didn't think either were scum.

lol I genuinely was writing 479 and asking myself

"is it as easy as

pops/fuzzy/paragon

?"

I am less confident in Paragon town though.

How come?

8

pops

fakeclaiming makes me less confident you're being truthful, tbh. But even then, it makes no sense why you would lie.

I guess in the event that

pops

, you're the first person I'd think of as a potential partner. You guys have done little bits of interactions but neither of you have made concrete conclusions on reading each other.

It's awkward that

pops

was fakeclaiming while you were suspected of doing the same, it feels like an attempt to disperse discussion when there was still valid reasons to suspect you as scum for supposedly lying, or at least figuring out why other's thought it was scum-motivated from you.

You guys consistently push others who push you back, while this isn't scum-indicative alone, it doesn't bode well with the other presented information.

p-edit

Fuzzy, Taco, Rabid's replacement should be the three wagons.

LOL, nope. Townread deleted.

Not only is this NOT all the people who replaced, but why are you placing emphasis on low activity slots / replacements? There's tons of information and accusation to absolve in this thread and your first response is to retreat to slots that have the least impact OR suspected you?

I'm not buying it. Plus, why should there be 3 wagons? Aren't we trying to get a consensus on one?

Also, replacements should be given a fair chance to put their stake - why are you emphasizing a preemptive push there beyond sorting their slot any further.

I don't want to lynch outside of Pops/Paragon/Fuzzy today.

[Taly]

I may have misread and you meant JUST

Rabid's

replacement my argument still stands.

I don't understand your perspective, man.

[Taly]

I'm kind of annoyed that

Rabid

and

Rob

literally had valid pushes and threw that shit away the second they didn't want to reinforce their opinions when it didn't add up.

The momentum of this game was shot a little, and the justification of

"OH, we have an IC now!"

feels so pockety and mislynchbaity on any other slot.

and the

Fuzzy

wagons feel very bussy in the context that

Rabid/Rob

were pushed themselves for their own arguments.

None of these past 10 pages make sense the more town exists within

{Pops/Paragon/Fuzzy}

[Taly]

Taly, I dislike Taco/Fuzzy for reasons irrelevant to me; neither has suspected me. Rabid I have given reasons for disliking. I don't see what's wrong with pressuring a replacement if you suspect the slot to be scum. I believe most of the active posters are town, which is what is directing me to the inactives. Taco and Fuzzy are the scummiest of them. I agreed with popsofctown's reasons for disliking Fuzzy.

So what's the dislike for

Taco

who probably is getting replaced soon himself?

Oh, so do you agree with why I think

Fuzzy

can be scum? or is it another reason entirely?

I see quite a few problems with casting suspicion on a slot prior to the replace-in. It sets up fuckton of confirmation bias toward scumreading a player and it can easily be mislynch bait or create division within town cohesion. I literally stopped replacing into games because I'd have people use my replace-outs to discredit every thing I had to say. It's a valid scum tactic, and you can't convince me that it's good faith gamesolving.

If you think

Rabid

was scum so confidently that the slot will remain such, fine, but don't act on that through voting and wagon prior to a replacement's piece.

And why do you scumread

Rabid

? I think I read why but I definitely want to hear it again.

I dislike Taly's push on me and it feels opportunistic. His initial scumread on me was solely based on interactions with popsofctown, which is essentially preflip solving which relies on popsofctown being scum. But he then "LOL deletes the townread" based on very poor reasoning. I have expressed scumreads on 2 of those slots already previously, and Fuzzy's is mostly due to his last bout of posts.
I don't like dismissing them as scummy when I compile them up into one post.

Initial scumread? You imply that I scumread you before 506. I was less confident for you town based on my read with

pops

, but YOUR post 503 set off the alarm in my mind.

If you want me to case, I can go ahead.

And what's opportunistic about scumreading you? I want to hear it.

p-edit

I'm kind of annoyed that Rabid and Rob literally had valid pushes and threw that shit away the second they didn't want to reinforce their opinions when it didn't add up.

I'm also not sure if Taly really believes this or is faking this frustration. Those pushes were for completely NAI reasons, how does he believe they're valid?

5

Fuzzy, Taco, Taly, Rabid

Once again, the second someone pushes you, they are scum.

You proved my point.

[Taly]

Initial scumread? You imply that I scumread you before 506. I was less confident for you town based on my read with pops, but YOUR post 503 set off the alarm in my mind.

You had me in your lynchpool of popsofctown/Paragon/Fuzzy before you "deleted" the townread.

It wasn't a lynchpool. It was a

"If

pop's

is scum, what could the solve be?"

But yeah, it was a thought, but the scumread didn't change quite at the moment, more or less when you posted after.

Why is my suspicion so unfounded on you? Why are you doing the questioning quota? It doesn't make sense. I want to hear why

Rabid

and

Fuzzy

are scum beyond you just saying they should be wagoned.

Once again, the second someone pushes you, they are scum.

This is not true. Aloratom has suspected me for a while as is voting me but I believe he is town.
eyestott now scumreads me but he is still my top townread.

Your reasons and the way you came about scumreading me reads as scummy and opportunistic.

Why is

eyestott

your top townread? He's been high on your list for awhile but I don't quite understand why.

And yeah,

Alo's

suspected you, but why do you think he's town? And why is his suspicion unfounded? Please tell me if I overlooked you interact with him on his case onto you.

But even then, I don't follow your scumreads and none of them currently or most recently voiced a townread, so it doesn't seem unintentional to me that you're playing defensively.

Part of why I'm treating you differently is because you came across as a sensible and skilled player with your prior solving, which is why it makes it difficult to believe you truly believe Rabid and Robbnva had really valid pushes and you're frustrated at them replacing out, or you scumread me for the reasons you've stated.

I wasn't sold on

Rabid/Robb's

scumread on you, but I didn't think they were scum for their reasons as I could understand why they believed that through a town mindset. I'm frustrated because I wanted them to elaborate more, or have more time to sort and figure out why.

Paragon

, can you quote everything I've said that you think is a reason I scumread you for? I want to make sure I'm clear.

[Taly]

And Taly, I think i’d only be content lynching one of those three today, too. And I agree that as a precedent, replace outs shouldn’t be indicative of alignment, I think this may be an exception though

I'm guessing

Pops

judging by your vote? Clarify please, but if you need to sleep then don't worry right now

[Taly]

I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.

4 Votes with

{Ame/Wisp/Taly/Eyestott}

vote order. Another would put them at L-2.

I may take a breather from the thread as well.

[Taly]

morning

wiisp <3 <3 <3

lmk what you think of this past page

[Taly]

mmmmmm I'm townreading most people I don't scumread at this point so I feel like I have a pretty solid enough readslist to act off of it in good conscience.

cheers



clinkclink glunkglunk

[Taly]

ame

i love your gifs do you have anything to talk about or are we just mind melding here.

Things I Want Clarified About

Paragon's

Reads:
-Gamelong townread on

eyestott

-

Taco

scumread remains without an eyelash bat to his catchup posting
-

Fuzzy

and

Rabid slot

scumreads which I asked about
-I also wanna know why

Alo's

push on him is good faith gamesolving but not mine

ndmath

, what's your reservation at posing the L1 vote on

pops

?

also tbh i know i said id lynch

fuzzy

but my 2 stronger scumreads are wanting that lynch so im feeling more inclined to stick on one of those 2 wagons.

if anyone wants me to make an official case and probably catch 2 more 1v1s except not because it will become a 2v1, let me know.

p-edit

here's a tiger GIF because

Alo

gets it 576

...nvm my internet is shitty, I give you my affection

Conspire

is a

Paragon

alt, to clarify

[Taly]

You think I invented a whole gimmick to hide the fact I'm associated with popsofctown?

No, it just makes 0 sense for

pops

to lie about a post restriction herself just to give yours more credibility, especially when her vote has been on similar people you've voted and suspected yourself - and neither of you have definitively called the other town or scum but have made a lot of interaction, it feels distancey and scum/scum. I can link the posts that have me think so.

Like I still think

pops

is individually more likely scum than you and I am open to you actually refuting the points I mentioned above + ones I made earlier, but no, this quote is inaccurate on how I read the situation, at least.

[Taly]

Things I Want Clarified About Paragon's Reads:
-Gamelong townread on eyestott
-Taco scumread remains without an eyelash bat to his catchup posting
-Fuzzy and Rabid slot scumreads which I asked about
-I also wanna know why Alo's push on him is good faith gamesolving but not mine

eyestott since all his stances/opinions seem real. Genuineness read. We've discussed this previously and you agreed. His frustration was very real as he discusses almost repping out.

Can you be more specific on what he's said that's genuine?

I did not see anything explicitly townie from Taco's catchup. Did you find it towny?

It didn't sound like he was pulling anything out of his ass, but I'm reserving judgment until he finishes his ISOing.

push on me was real; he felt hurt and deceived after he realised the discussion I'd been having with him about Conspire was for naught. His case made sense. Your turn on me felt opportunistic and lacked the good reasons Aloratom had;

specifically how you framed it like I was scumreading everyone who was scumreading me.

Part of my scumread on you is also gut, and it's hard to substantiate that part.

The bolded was only part of my scumread on you, which I also voiced the other reasons, I thought were clear.

1)

You wanted to wagon and push ALL of the lurker slots (not a specific one, or a slot who had a lot of game content to parse), and reinforced your

Rabid

scumread onto a slot even after he replaced out.

2)

It's completely fine if you take joy out of your shticks, but you mentioning the

Conspire

as another player and you not quickly stating that the post restriction was all in good fun (when you were suspected with votes) feels disingenuous. There's having fun and then there's not acknowledging when people aren't on the same page as you.

3)

In part, your response to my push, since you only seemed to focus on certain aspects of it, and you haven't digressed about any of your scumreads when I asked you about them.

Also, it's very cruel of you to state these as non-questions.

5

I don't feel compelled to follow your posting restriction approach if it's not meant to be AI.

Ame, is the reason you ask those questions at the start of games because you’re in cognitive neuroscience and you like to develop a feel as to a persons personality irrespective of alignment?

Also, do you have any solid townreads?

You know, I always wrote off

Ame's

questions like that since I didn't know how they pertained to the game but that's a fucking really cool take and concept to toy with.

I think I'll answer them soon

Not sure what the VC is atm but I think I want to lynch Fuzzy today. There is nothing remotely townie about his contributions so far.

pops

is at L2
I don't care enough to know

paragon's

votes but they're like one or two votes behind.
There's like 2 people on

Fuzzy

?

p-edit

Does that mean you'll feel sad that you didn't understand me when I flip green, Ame?

I'm townreading Paragon. I figured out another one of his alts and am disappointed there are not as many separate wonderful people in existence as I previously thought but also by meta I think it gives me additional reason to be townreading him.
I share his frustration that preflip assoc reads are stupid, there is probably inherent validity to a gamestate read that Paragon is probably aligned with me, and people are just errantly presuming that it's S/S. Like I actually don't care way too much about getting mislynched here, I was starting to miss my day1 mislynch meta and I think there will be lots to read from the debris, but confbiasing into preflip assocs squanders the reads you can develop using this dayphase. Preflip assocs are inherently bad play because player's reads are actually very close to rand but psychologically they tend to feel more confident than that.
Taco seems kind of townish to me. Maybe, like on tone?
NDMath's catchup seemed scummy to me, though I'm not sure that's accurate omgus. Would like to see more from the slot.
Y'shtola's passivity is at a critical mass. I am not sure how it would ever be possible to townread her the way she's playing.

I can turn off what my brain wants to conclude as preflip associatives, but my scumreads are also built individually.

pops

, you're going to have to really sell me on who you want to lynch and you don't have to explain why my reads are poorly constructed in your eyes.

Seriously, if you're town

pops

, can you work with me?

[Taly]

On a scale of 0-10 how clearly can you visualize images in your mind's eye? 0 being not at all (aphantasia). 10 being as clearly as you see with your actual eyes.

Ehhh.... I can visualize vivid pictures in my head but they don't last too long. I can follow a vague, audio-less story in my head.

I guess 6. I can lucid dream though, hehe. If that means anything.

On a scale of 0-10 how clearly can you hear sounds in your mind's ear?

easily and 8. I can repeat sounds I focus on in my head, and hear them clearly. I read often, and the voices I read through change depending on the person or scene of the story.

I can even play out conversations in my head with different voices and distinguish them. They're not actual voices, but I can imagine.

What are your top 3 favorite Pokemon?

Really hard for me to say... I love Fairy type pokemon, very pure and uplifting feel.

I also like Ghost and Dark type... something is pretty attractive but darkness when you know you're safe.

What's your current favorite song?

Fuck, it's hard to list one.

Castles in the Air - Don McLean

Both Sides Now - Judy Collins

-

Fast Talk - Houses

-

A World Alone - Lorde

-

Goodbye Stranger - Supertramp

make top 5.

I gravitate to 70s Rock and 2010's Alternative... 80s rock and 90s pop are great too. 2000s is nostalgic as I grew up then of course.

If you had the option to be immortal without the ability to turn it off would you choose to be?

Depends, if I were immortal as an adult without the negative effects of aging? Possibly.
If I were immortal and couldn't die ever? Definitely not.

I want to live longer, but I don't know if I have the sanity to experience humanity longer than the frame of time I know it to be.

What is the meaning of life?

Such a nuanced question, it'd take me until midnight to write it all up and it's 10:16 PM

[Taly]

Quote Part

pops, you're going to have to really sell me on who you want to lynch

You agree with me that FuzzyLogic is scummy. I put a good amount of stock in lynching someone who has done very little, with all of what they've done being scummy. Stark contrast to a slot who has done one special thing everyone seems to think is scummy, but is not corroborated by other reasons to believe I'm scum despite pretty voluminous posting. When I've been lynched as scum early like in Team Mafia and Masons and Mafia people have found detail after detail of many different things I was doing scum indicative.

It's very disturbing that FuzzyLogic projected having much more effort and acumen during RVS/low information then caught up with a totally nothingburger post.

I'm actually leaning to the opposing mentality here:

If

Fuzzy

is lynched and flips scum, wonderful! But how has his posting helped solve for his team? If

Fuzzy

is lynched and flips town, this D1 will become like most others as the shitfest it often concludes as.

If, say,

you/Paragon, or even someone more present

were lynched and flips scum, then that gives plenty of content to go through that could give insight in other people's alignment, even if our negotiated

"preflip associations"

are incorrect, it gives the ability for discussion that dispels this. If one of you flipped town then that gives a strong reason to reevaluate as the wagon had leverage beyond a lack of information.

This is why I was irked by the

Fuzzy

wagon revival (and push on lurker slots) even when I didn't townread him, it felt like an easy push for scum to make - EVEN in the world that you aren't scum

Pops

.

If

Fuzzy

straight-up refuses the call to contribute soon, then I'd be inclined to back it, but I want to force him to spew before that lynch becomes most comfortable.

What has prevented you from pushing

Y'shtola

?

Yeah I don't know that I'm seeing as much scum in pops as some are. More like obstinate town. She's rubbing people the wrong way, and her copping the post restriction to make a point was odd, but she's right about Fuzzy and about Y'shtola. Fuzzy started strong and has since been MIA, and Y'shtola's role seems to be to stand by and wait for things to happen. Pops may be off-putting, but I'm not scum reading her right now.

Can you read 159 to 214? I need a second pair of eyes there.

no scum read yet.... working on it

And townreads? Give me something.

most of what I accomplished the last few pages is making eyestott an IC you should be proud. Please spray a bubblebeam of celebration

I was analyzing Taly's behavior, I interpreted that part as town indicative

Take: I think there are fewer than two scum on my wagon

These are some mastermindy quotes, tf.

I think I'm going to re-ISO

pops

again because if this is

pops'

townrange, then it's fucking wild.

Don't know about read changes, but I need to look at your posting with more nuance - you have such a roundabout way of gamesolving that it's hard to argue your points but also figure out the motivation behind them.

You're doing what I'd love to have the ability to do more as scum.

Spoiler: I'm not going to lie, this shit made me laugh out loud.

I hearken to those who seek the salvation of this star and the aversion of a future calamity, we must identify and eliminate the Sin Eaters of this land. For once we have reached the breaking point, two worlds will be lost and countless lives will be forfeit.

We have identified the existence of one such creature in this very room, its sickening light threatening to corrupt those within to the same gruesome fate. We must stop it immediately before it can set forth a chain of events that we can not fix.

UNVOTE: popsofctown

I await the answer to our call.

I have nothing but confusion about 666 and 667

Housekeeping Part

yo

Luca

, can you avoid justifying your predecessor's replace-out when nobody has stated issue on it, and give reads/ask questions about anyone you haven't directly spoke to yet? Also, see my 479 506 516 521 from what read shift on

Paragon

.

@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.

Again, I used to agree with this mentality.

But tbh, this can benefit scum as much as town, so

*shrugs*

Clearly not many people follow my reads... I'm trying not to waffle myself into oblivion until a lynch happens, but I fear that's what will happen if I go back on my stronger town or stronger scum reads now. Hmmmmm. But I may need to reevaluate if nothing else but get a stronger grasp of this game?

I see the points on

Ame

, hence why I wanted to ask why she felt so strong on me town and

pops

scum on her entrance, but I don't know if I want her lynched? I want to see what happens with this wagon, though. But I've seen town inflate - especially replace-ins - inflate their confidence over their reads as a gamesolving tool to resolve any lack of traction or clarity presented by other players.

[Taly]

lets townbloc

paragon

lul

[Taly]

@Taly
Fine Lynch, me i dont care... I trying to do the best I can. I m not going to fake reads and thoughts to make yall happy. It takes a bit for me to put my thoughts together/ I know I not super helpful atm. I am not like you and can make instant-reads. If yall cant understand that than just it over with......

Also how am any worse/ scummier then those who are jumping on the easiest wagon available and making zero reason to explain why.???

I think Paragon is newbtown. that is the vibe I am getting from him, I gues he could be newbscum but my potato senses is telling me newb town.

Btw- I was right about Paragon in post 388- (So there that)

Can people stop AtE'ing me at any point I ask for their perspective or tap them?

If you read my post in full, I'm not interested in pushing your lynch until I see more of your viewpoint on this game. I'm not telling you to fake reads, I'm asking what will help you form any if you don't have them.

And why are you posting the bolded question to me? I AM one of the people voicing the sentiment that your wagon is an easy push to get behind.

Can you read 159 to 214? I need a second pair of eyes there.

Are you talking about Pops' posts in that range? I'm having a hard time following some of this. I have a feeling I'm on a different planet than a lot of you because half of what y'all are saying I don't understand.

Specifically my interaction with

Pops

. Do you think it is a town-town argument?

Ugh. I might just wait for people to approach me at this point in the dayphase.

[Taly]

If you're talking about mine, a more precise question would have helped actually. "I need a second pair of eyes there," doesn't tell me much.

heh, I guess so. Yeah, I just want another opinion on when I began scumreading

Pops

so I can have new context when I re-ISO and I won't feel like I'm tunneling, or unjustly doing so.

[Taly]

geee, im definitely caught scum now, how the fuck will i ever recover after 725

hopes and dreams of ever reaching that don clerone scummy have been dashed, time to go back to the newbie queue and self-vote every game to repent my transgressions

[Taly]

geee, im definitely caught scum now, how the fuck will i ever recover after 725

hopes and dreams of ever reaching that don clerone scummy have been dashed, time to go back to the newbie queue and self-vote every game to repent my transgressions

If I could add this post to 725, I would.

Paragon

, the issue with your scumread on me is that it's purely based off tonal gut feelings that can't be defended against. The fact that you're not even pushing your vote on me while you scumread me is because you're positioning yourself, listing reasons to doubt my alignment without actually engaging with me. It's mislynchbaity.

And tbh, false. Nothing you said is AI of me in 725 because your scumread is based on my personality. You took about *every* post I gave emotion into and are saying it's all a generalized reason to why I'm scum.

I've explicitly told you the progression behind my scumread on you.

I've asked you multiple questions about how your reads have changed in respect to your other scumreads.

I've been very clear about how rolefishing or discussing setup spec could be problematic as that negates discussion about alignments early game.

I've even asked you to confirm if nothing was clear.

But you've either responded to half of what I said, didn't respond much at all, or just find reasons to add to why I'm scum to you. This is how I cannot envision you coming from a town mindset because this is both detached AND uncooperative. I don't understand how this can be town.

It's too late for me to just link up eveything from my ISO. I'm not doing other people's work for them, especially when several people are saying they're going to ISO and push reads out but aren't.

[Taly]

This gamestate doesn't make much sense anymore.

I can't tell if the lack of traction on strongly scumreads slots are town or scum indicative.

And I think each of my posts the past few pages have fallen on deaf ears aside from

Pops/Alo/Ame

, and I scumread one.

I still want engagement from

Luca/Taco

but I'm not going to pull teeth.

I'm going to pump reads out soon, perhaps people aren't understanding my viewpoint much.

And spewing opinions is about the only thing keeping me from wallowing in apathy, aside from people approaching me unprompted.

[Taly]

Ame

, you saying I'm town automatically is not fluff, unless you didn't mean that?

And the rest of the stuff is fluffy, but I'm not going to jump onto a person's ISO and find everything that isn't 100% game content to be full of fluff. You don't register as someone who's filling the thread with content that doesn't provide much.

[Taly]

It wasn't meant to be funny.

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

I need a reset.
I'm starting my reads from scratch again.
@

everyone

: Let's say that you lose all your memories of what has thus far transpired in this game and all your reads. However, you get to keep one of your reads that you currently have (be it a town read or a scum read), and the reasoning behind it.
Which one would you choose to keep your memory of?

Aloratom

-town, that's the read that helps me keep a grasp on the game at hand.

In a gamestate where 3 confident wagons crumbled for 0 reason,

Alo

asserting his push on

Paragon

and sticking by to what wagons he finds as town is +++ against lack of cohesion and promotes town direction. It doesn't align with a scum-motivated narrative or agenda.

[Taly]

i want to throw up at the gamelong white-knight

pops/paragon

have launched on

eyestott's

slot.

[Taly]

It wasn't meant to be funny.

VOTE: Taly

i want to throw up at the gamelong white-knight

pops/paragon

have launched on

eyestott's

slot.

VOTE: Taly

Find 5 more votes and get back to me.

[Taly]

It's just that that was a good portion of what I had posted by the time you made that statement. Those weren't just posts that I cherry picked. The first 8 or so posts I made in the game were pretty in-your-face contentless despite the game state having moved beyond RVS. So it's off to me that you specifically said that I wasn't posting any fluff at the time and makes suspect that the read was based off insincere reasoning.

That my reasoning wasn't insincere? What I felt was truthful even if it wasn't logical.

I don't have a response beyond that.

[Taly]

I'd discard townreads on eyestott and Paragon that are likely to regenerate themselves.
I'm not confident enough in any of my scumreads for them to be candidates for keeping.

I'd laugh but this isn't funny either.

Taly are you still scum reading Para?

It doesn't make sense to me that he's town, so I guess so.

[Taly]

What do you think of Wisp?

My townread of him has faded almost to not existing. He's not present, but I don't think his apathy is AI, both because the wagon progressions and because it's D1. He's less intense than when I last played with him but he also doesn't play mafia nearly as much. I see no agenda with his posting because they don't lead to definite conclusions or have a purpose other than he's just commenting on the game which is excusable pre-D1 flip. He doesn't interest me enough to sort him further for D1.

Also why doesn't it make sense that he's town? He's been displaying the most sorting of anyone I feel.

Read 479 506 516 521 599 747 and tell me how I'm scumreading town.

[Taly]

Other than that you want to play mafia with me (which I appreciate and reciprocate), is there another reason you wouldn't vote me this dayphase?

[Taly]

Luca has a strong town tone, but it's pinging me that he's pushed 4 town slots now.

Who are these town slots,

Ame

?

Also, why is 2-3 scum a discussion at all right now? There's virtually no basis to this idea except for arising multiple preflip associatives.

UNVOTE:

I need a reset.
I'm starting my reads from scratch again.
@

everyone

: Let's say that you lose all your memories of what has thus far transpired in this game and all your reads. However, you get to keep one of your reads that you currently have (be it a town read or a scum read), and the reasoning behind it.
Which one would you choose to keep your memory of?

Aloratom

-town, that's the read that helps me keep a grasp on the game at hand.

In a gamestate where 3 confident wagons crumbled for 0 reason,

Alo

asserting his push on

Paragon

and sticking by to what wagons he finds as town is +++ against lack of cohesion and promotes town direction. It doesn't align with a scum-motivated narrative or agenda.

I don’t really like this reasoning.

1) it’s early D1. Wagons rapidly increasing and decreasing is normal.

2) scum know everyone’s alignment, Town don’t. Scum have reason to sit on reads moreso than Town, especially in the feeling out period of the game.

3) you’re ignoring the context that Tom clearly isn’t into the game, and clearly lacks a solid basis for his reads.

4) I disagree that Tom’s play this game promotes Town direction and doesn’t potentially align with a scum agenda.

1)

Prior to your replace-in I pushed for a lynchpool, but people hopped off of it without saying much beyond

"I want to reevaluate"

, but I haven't found a reason to reevaluate everything in full yet.

2)

True. Not denying that. Am I doing it to a degree? Probably. Usually, my vote would've touched 4 or 5 different places by now but I'm lacking the energy for it, among much dumber reasons.

(Luca/Ame/Paragon/NDMath)

3)

You're ignoring the context that I'm losing touch with the game, too. What is

"lacking"

when he reasons for his reads?

4)

And what's

Alo's

agenda? If you're going to challenge my stance then at least back it with a reason.

You/Taly is that I've been finding you two suspicious independently of each other, but your interactions don't bode well either. Particularly there was this post where Taly was like "Yo Luca something something" and it reminded me of his interaction when I was his partner in a previous game.

Yeah, I was actually trying to get

Luca's

attention the morning after he spent over a page rationalizing how he's town because of his replace-out... turns out he didn't want to communicate until he found something he disagreed with.

Oh well. We gotta work on our cohesion here, guys.

geee, im definitely caught scum now, how the fuck will i ever recover after 725

hopes and dreams of ever reaching that don clerone scummy have been dashed, time to go back to the newbie queue and self-vote every game to repent my transgressions

Taly, how often do you get angry as a Warrior of Light and as a Sin Eater?

I used to get very indignant and angry, and I'd span 1v1s for entire dayphases as town.

I don't have enough care or mental energy as I've gotten older, plus, my natural playstyle is always intended for push players spew so I can solve them better the longer I survive with them.

Angry-Taly

burns out, and while he has caught scum a lot acting on his indignation,

Angry-Taly

has divided towns.

This is

Apathy-Taly

. Doing whatever I can to not infect others with my apathy. Mass sarcasm intended. It's meant to tonally give rise out of players but I'm just not losing my shit over it.

But tbh, I'm rekindling some energy back? I know I'd rekindle more if I saw a flip to work off of, but

*shrugs*

I don't encourage people to condone my behavior by keeping me alive, but I also don't feel compelled by most people's reads at the moment, so I'd rather not become

Waffle-Taly

who goes to lylo and town loses.

My play is so drastically different from my scum game, I think you would pick up on it.

2 scum really changes things.

Pops/Para : Luca/Para : Luca/Taly

One of these is the scum team.

You had me as confident town a little before, and you now have me in 2 of the 3 possibly scumteams? I've never seen you do preflip solving to this extent, Ame. You've struck me as "go for the scummiest player" in previous games.

You know, I actually like this post of

Paragon

.

If this is based off meta, what do you have of it from

Ame

?

And I oop-

A bit of inspiration returns.

[Taly]

pedit: Damn, this is like the 4th time this game I've been pedited by one of Taly's walls. It's terrifying.

With the mentality that I'm your scumread too! Fuck

Paragon

, you're a trooper.

Hey

NDMath

, what's so agreeable with my content you don't want to voice it or discuss it further?

Also

Y'shtola

, can you give me a piece of your playstyle? I know you're forming it if you're truthful on your experience but I want to hear your take.

[Taly]

Fuck,

Paragon

, you're a trooper.

***

No

Paragon's

were hurt in the making of this post.

No really, I meant the comma there, I'm not this mean lol.



Commas save lives.

p-edit

Taly, I've played/read through 4 Ame games (all town), and I've never seen her hypothesise teams to this extent, especially on day 1. I iwlld definitely have to read through this fabled scum game of hers' at a future time.

A game comprised of

Pops/Ame/Me

just ended, this is what

Ame

means by her familiarity with the two of us. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1375

(It's finished, so I should be able to link this.)

I was in a 4p hydra called

Team STRQ

who was scum, I was the

Tai

head.

Ame

was one of my partners.

Pops

was town but lord was it difficult to rationalize that.

p-edit again FFS

VOTE: Taco

You mention having Aloratom as null-town, and Ame as a townlean on your tier list during your catchup. Could I see your full tier list or are those your only two reads?

Black Bean Burrito

You mean

Wiisp

as null town?

Alo

=

Ame

.

Oh wait, you meant

Taco

.

p-edit fml

Am I the only one missing the identity of Paragon?

It feels like I am out of the loop of something important to what is going on.

I don't know either.

[Taly]

How would you describe your gameplay?

[Taly]

Paragon

, if we're both town, who is scum?

[Taly]

Why do you ask this, Taly? I haven't been tunneling/voting you and have been open about my other scumreads.

Fuzzy/Taco/NDmath/Taly

A new person has also now joined the above ranks; I will go into that one later today when I have time.

1)

I want to talk to you beyond

"i scumread you you scumread me"

because this feels tunnely coming from me.

2)

If we're both town, it's really not helpful if our interactions are a source of division, now or if referenced later this game.

3)

Plus, I'm wondering if your scumreads change if I'm town, I want to see how independent your reads are from the other aside from me just asking about one individually.

4)

Psst.... here's a secret. I can ask one person something, with the intent to solve MULTIPLE people or clarify SEVERAL thoughts.

Is everyone else a confident townread?

[Taly]

Taly seems really cognizant of what he's doing and enthusiastic about outlining and describing it. Makes it seem more performative

Am I incompetent or fake? Finally pick one. Give me a break already.

[Taly]

Do you agree with my reads list, Taly? What would your one look like?

thank you

<3

No specific order

Town: Wiisp/Alo/Eye/Yshtola/Ame

Other Scum Within: Luca/Taco/Paragon/NDMath/Fuzzy

Scum: Pops

I had a much more solid readslist at 563 which has faded the longer this dayphase lasts.

Wiisp/Alo/Eye/Yshtola/Ame

is not a perfect townlist but they're the ones I've talked myself out of scumreading the most.

I don't remember calling you incompetent Taly. Can you highlight it?

Burden of a good player is a reference to me, I think you're giving me the third degree because I'm capable of a strong day 1. Even if you haven't played with me, people pick up on diction, the join date, etc. You can kind of tell these things. I returned to site after a break last year, I figured out who the veterans were.

I don't have high expectations on you.

UNVOTE:

You've never been upfront with your scumread on this slot and every other time you vote here you come up with a different idea on why I'm scum.

You disregard my perspective and questioning when it's convenient for you.

[Taly]

I agree a lot with paragon's readslist

He hasn't really impressed me as town though
By burden of proficiency he must be doing too well at reads to be town, something like that.

also wtf if this post?

[Taly]

VOTE: popsofctown

that felt good.

[Taly]

I'm shamelessly tunneling, tell me why I shouldn't

pops

.

[Taly]

eyestott

, social experiment, towncase me even if you don't believe I'm town.

[Taly]

i want to throw up at the gamelong white-knight

pops/paragon

have launched on

eyestott's

slot.

Why are you of this opinion if you agree that eyestott is town?

Because

eyestott

getting pocketed looks like a very real possibility to me, with the highly influenced, unchallenged townreads on him. It's too early to have such a townbloc read over a slot that isn't relatively perfect.

It's happened to me in plenty of games.

If

eyestott's

town, he's either NK bait or a very good late-term slot that perpetuates paranoia, his perception is also slightly skewed.

If

eyesott's

scum, this is a problem for the town to gamesolve upon even scumflips.

Now, the above situation isn't meant to bring up WIFOM, but it shows how showering someone with townreads and a lack of critical thought presents a gamestate and narrative problem for town to solve.

eyestott

, social experiment, towncase me even if you don't believe I'm town.

Is this a good use of time for someone you townread?

I think it's one of the best uses of time for someone I townread.

The lack of emphasis people are placing on my posts have lowered a lot in the past few pages (not that I've helped), so by seeing how

eyestott

phrases an increasingly less popular townread will be helpful in seeing which slots in the game are forcing a read.

Scum have more reason to position their reads differently based on how players (who the thread has different levels of town confidence in) interact rather than Town who wants the players' stances clarified for them.

I agree a lot with paragon's readslist

He hasn't really impressed me as town though
By burden of proficiency he must be doing too well at reads to be town, something like that.

also wtf if this post?

What alarms you about this post?

1)

She's coming at this with the presumption that her reads are correct, because she's measuring the merit of your reads by her view when she mentions

"you're doing too well at reads"

- only scum know facts about people's alignment, and she projects this notion against you instead of evaluating herself.

2)

Again, she throws up the concept of

"burden of proficiency"

without really elaborating how that applies to the situation, whether she's talking about herself or you. She did the exact same thing to me earlier this game when I called her out on it when I asked her to explain my alignment in relationship to

Wiisp

, but she gave individual reads that didn't commit to her original post 159 186

3)

With as much as

Pops

has townread you

Paragon

594 803 and spoke about you without pushing you, it's really odd that she's downplaying your posts as they haven't impressed her to be town, and that is a cause to doubt your alignment.

She's not sorting your reads or the conclusions behind them. She's not taking a strong stance around you even when she's interested in your slot.

This is not how Town interacts with their townreads, I sure hope the fuck they don't.

I'm genuinely lost or find a red flag when I try to find motive for

Pops'

posting this game.

[Taly]

The lack of emphasis people are placing on my posts have lowered a lot in the past few pages (not that I've helped), so by seeing how eyestott phrases an increasingly less popular townread will be helpful in seeing which slots in the game are forcing a read.

I'm not sure if I follow. eyestott towncasing you will bring insight into which slots are forcing a read on who? On you? Are you suggesting scum are going along with the flow of no longer having you as a strong townread, and eyestott towncasing you will force them to refute those points?

Regarding eyestott's alignment: I see where you're coming from regarding potential pocketing. That makes your constant questioning of my read on him make more sense.

Regarding popsofctown: I have thoughts on this but I believe it's best I let popsofctown reply herself before I state my assumptions.

If

eyestott

is well townread and voices a polarizing opinion, those who townread

eyestott

will reveal the nature of their read on him by their responses.

If I elabroate more that will defeat the exercise's purpose.

That post was when you were asking me to choose between two characterizations of a previous post, either that I myself feel burdened being a good player or that you're such a good player I would specifically expect you catch scum very very early. I was just saying a, not b. This would be a much more faithful way of trimming context.

Or that I'm SUPPOSED to have caught scum by now? Or was burden of good player a reference to you?

Burden of a good player is a reference to me.

I don't have high expectations on you.

That still doesn't explain the questions about you posing the phrase to (or about?)

Paragon

.

Spoiler:

i want to throw up at the gamelong white-knight

pops/paragon

have launched on

eyestott's

slot.

Why are you of this opinion if you agree that eyestott is town?

Because

eyestott

getting pocketed looks like a very real possibility to me, with the highly influenced, unchallenged townreads on him. It's too early to have such a townbloc read over a slot that isn't relatively perfect.

It's happened to me in plenty of games.

If

eyestott's

town, he's either NK bait or a very good late-term slot that perpetuates paranoia, his perception is also slightly skewed.

If

eyesott's

scum, this is a problem for the town to gamesolve upon even scumflips.

Now, the above situation isn't meant to bring up WIFOM, but it shows how showering someone with townreads and a lack of critical thought presents a gamestate and narrative problem for town to solve.

eyestott

, social experiment, towncase me even if you don't believe I'm town.

Is this a good use of time for someone you townread?

I think it's one of the best uses of time for someone I townread.

The lack of emphasis people are placing on my posts have lowered a lot in the past few pages (not that I've helped), so by seeing how

eyestott

phrases an increasingly less popular townread will be helpful in seeing which slots in the game are forcing a read.

Scum have more reason to position their reads differently based on how players (who the thread has different levels of town confidence in) interact rather than Town who wants the players' stances clarified for them.

I agree a lot with paragon's readslist

He hasn't really impressed me as town though
By burden of proficiency he must be doing too well at reads to be town, something like that.

also wtf if this post?

What alarms you about this post?

1)

She's coming at this with the presumption that her reads are correct, because she's measuring the merit of your reads by her view when she mentions

"you're doing too well at reads"

- only scum know facts about people's alignment, and she projects this notion against you instead of evaluating herself.

2)

Again, she throws up the concept of

"burden of proficiency"

without really elaborating how that applies to the situation, whether she's talking about herself or you. She did the exact same thing to me earlier this game when I called her out on it when I asked her to explain my alignment in relationship to

Wiisp

, but she gave individual reads that didn't commit to her original post 159 186

3)

With as much as

Pops

has townread you

Paragon

594 803 and spoke about you without pushing you, it's really odd that she's downplaying your posts as they haven't impressed her to be town, and that is a cause to doubt your alignment.

She's not sorting your reads or the conclusions behind them. She's not taking a strong stance around you even when she's interested in your slot.

This is not how Town interacts with their townreads, I sure hope the fuck they don't.

I'm genuinely lost or find a red flag when I try to find motive for

Pops'

posting this game.

Time to attempt blatantly pander Ame a little bit.
I assume Pargon's readslist can be graded based on its similarity to mine because I think mine is better than the other ones in the thread by default due to Illusory superiority.
When I actually am putting on srs face and solving I have to manually adjust for Illusory superiority to play the game most correctly, otherwise if I do something like vote someone when 2 masons disagree with me that a slot is scummy the Illusory Superiority will make me start to actually gamethrow
However if I am making a joke post for memes my illusory superiority is fangless, and in fact only adds to the humor of the post as I proceed to move onto an illogical conclusion after so recently succumbing to a cognitive bias that has caused me to conclude I'm -extra- competent.
This is definitely how I interact with people I'm aligned with, the attempts at humor are relentless. Moreso like the undead than invincible angels. If I ever manage to roll scum with Paragon, the scum PT will be glorious.

OK, this could be a massive conflict between our playstyles? Is what you're saying? What's so high quality about your reads then? How are they different than

Paragon's

and what are the nuances?

-

Hey

Luca

, when you decide to actually reply or focus on a conversation with me are you going to be predictable and enforce your vote with a scumread?

[Taly]

Can you rephrase that? I don’t follow.

Since you're a mobile poster that makes more sense.

But you haven't directly communicated with me in the game thus far, and I'm wondering why. Did you read my response to you about my

Alo

read?

[Taly]

lmfao

[Taly]

will reply later but LOL

[Taly]

Pops

I think you're really cool and give good vibes as a person tbh

but if you're town this game, oh my god.

I'm really trying to think on where to reevaluate my reads in the reality that you're town and I'm having a hard time coming up with anything.

I'm curious, who is scum if I'm not?

(this isn't my "official reply" I just wanted to inquire instead of making an ass of myself.)

[Taly]

Still haven't gotten to reply to Ame and Luca yet but I'm phone posting as I just wish up with a lot of "oh god what if pops/I are t-t" anxiety (and other anxieties amid pandemic - I'm going to be really sad if I'm wrong about Popz here) and I'm just going to say:

I want to see towncases for Pops. If anyone has meta on her plea see bring it to light.

Yshtola is next behind as scumread as they don't contribute anything even after being consistently prodded. I just don't know how this fits in a pops scum universe.

When is deadline?

Fuzzy feels genuine but I will evaluate that scum game. I want to see his opinions on players he has not mentioned before.

This game gets easier if Ame and Luca are both town. I want to at least give Pops that re ISO I mentioned and I want to do that with these two slots as well. Alongside Alo. I feel iffy on Ames read progression and I want to check Lucas depth of thought behind his pushes.

I should look at Paragon and their wagon as well.

Taco and Wiiap being ghosts makes getting a definite frame of the game more difficult. I want to ask people to ISO them.

And Eyestott, what are your reads?

Also Eyeatott, Grindr is a nightmare and I've learned that first hand. Good luck man.

There is legit 1 or 2 people I forgot to mention here, I think.

[Taly]

Oh yeah NDMath, can you give a reads list? It's not favorable that I stream of consciousness commented about the game and I could hardly remember the stances and posts of a replace in.

[Taly]

Fuck it we have 7 days. This doesn't change my reads.

VOTE: Yshtola Rhul

[Taly]

LOL

eyestott

that sounds fun.

I'm busy studying atm but I'm glad you are doing well.

Y'shtola

, I want a readslist

[Taly]

All the players.

[Taly]

@Taly: Yes I did read it. I still think the reasoning was poor, but it wasn’t a particularly pressing issue and I felt ok leaving it there for now.

Just in response to your questions from those points:

Tom has clearly stated he hadn’t been following the game properly, to the extent that he thought Ame has replaced Robb. He scumread Paragon but admitted he hadn’t really read too deeply into his posts barring the things he pointed out regarding the role crumbs. This shows his reads were surface level and lacking in foundation.

Sitting on reads, particularly on what is essentially the basis of a policy lynch, is an easy thing for scum to do; if they aren’t under threat then there is no need to pull up any trees from their point of view. Assuming no scum agenda on his behalf based on this approach seemed rash to me. I currently think Tom is more likely Town based on his more recent posting anyway.

What about

Alo's

recent posting makes him town to you?

And I do need to reread

Alo

, but tbh, I thought the purpose behind him sitting on reads and missing details would more likely come from town in the idea that he was sticking to his reads since this day has been dragging a bit despite the good amount of content its contained.

If he had an agenda, I figured he'd be more obvious, and not be as inclined to inquire or reply to suspicion casted on him.

While saying

pops/I

are TvT can be a valid scum tactic and annoying to parse arguments, I came to him with the question. It's hard to say his motivation was scum-indicative when he didn't inject himself into the 1v1 with this opinion, and this aligned with his town-ish read on both of our slots at the time. So I noted his opinion and left it at that.

Taly why is cohesion important to you so early? Chaos is a ladder.

Because not having cohesion leads to mislynches and makes it more difficult to parse interactions of other people? It's also easier for scum to take control of the thread if towns are consistently distrustful, dismissive, and chaotic.

It also makes it hard for me to accrue solid townreads.

Why did you ask?

p-edit

I'm looking forward to that!

do my reads suck?

[Taly]

I'm going to do the things that I said I'll do ISO-wise by Thursday at the absolute latest, I need to start studying tomorrow as Spring Break is officially ending and my motivation is going on and off with this game since things in real life has just gone to a pause it feels.

[Taly]

also

yshtola

do me a favor and actually provide reads, it can't be that much of a stretch, if you somehow need help forming them after 45 pages then you have to hold my hand and point out how to help you. I can't rationalize how you can be town until you do.

There's literally people who have been scumreading each other consistently this dayphase who collectively agree that your posting lacks a severe level of substance and I've seen enough of your answers to my questions to where it's boring to dismiss them as non-malicious. Inaction is a scum tool.

also, if

hectic

=

paragon

and

pops

saying my reply to his case in 1083 is prompting A LOT OF MISGIVINGS but I'm kind of tired of this 1v1 with

pops

because her attention to me only lasts as long as my vote/push is on her and it's getting real old. 1087

ame

throwing up preflip associatives on the most active people in the thread is really not settling with me, especially as she didn't seem to evaluate my response to the importance of town cohesion but w/e

paragon

i want to townread you, why should i?

wiisp

.... ehhh? tbh i agree with

pops'

1093 being scum-indicative of

wiisp

but i have a hard time seeing 1080 come from scum. like,

I swear I see the same people talking every page, with some random pop ins,
Logically speaking there is likely to be 0-1 wolves in that grouping and probably no more

if

wiisp

were scum, why is he painting the most vocal and impactful players as town? the only reality this makes sense is that he is a partner to someone within

Pops/Taly/Ame/Paragon/Luca

or someone who is universally townread which is definitely NOT this group of people

, but that leads to a discussion of another atrocious preflip associative that all the main posters - including myself - have all surmised in the past several pages.

Namely, if

Wiisp

were scum within the active players he said were town, it makes 0 sense for almost all the active posters to have a weak read on him as stated. If

wiisp

flips scum at any point, all the mentioned posters to have 0-1 scum within them are up for suspicion - but this reality doesn't align with the narrative that

wiisp

has a partner in that group.

That’s reads list seems fake to me.

Tom being that high in the list without remembering why you TR him doesn’t make sense.

Your Fuzzy reasoning is bad. Your read on him shouldn’t be entirely based on who has pushed him, especially when his wagon has amounted to nothing.

I can kind of get your Wiisp point, but the ease at which you arrived at it seems like TMI.

Your Paragon SR is vague. What was scummy about his Taly push? It feels as though you’re buddying Taly tbh.

I’m not buying your paranoia of me. I don’t feel it’s justified/natural based on the posts I’ve made about you.

VOTE: Math

I really have a hard time trying to vibe with your pushes because they consist of finding error in most people's reads. You spend so much time finding error in someone's whole world of reads but you're not evaluating what specifically is scum-indicative about them.

Honestly, I'm pretty aware that

Math

could be buddying me since his entry post and I'm just so incredibly unbothered by it. Give me some credit.

What's odd to me is that you immediately go on the offensive before someone defines their strongest reads. It reads like you're finding things to discredit preemptively without voicing why.

Kind of the same way you inquire about what's scummy about

Paragon's

push onto me.

Is

Paragon's

push onto me scummy or towny? What was my push on him to you?

I haven't seen you verify your thoughts here, but I wonder if you're assuming

Math

should come to this conclusion, or if you're actually trying to figure this out yourself.

I agree that 1106 looks like a scumpost VOTE: NDMath

LOL

pops

is going hard voting a lot of people the second I unvote her. That's funny.

[Taly]

idk i kind of lost caring much about how my posts are received since the past 10-15 pages have been "taly is fake, i dont trust taly, someone's pushes > taly's"

so im wanting to see more detail in

Math's

readslist but it's still more detailed than most of the playerlists' latest readslist and im kind of past the point of just asking about people's posts to get a handle on them.

p-edit

I really have a hard time trying to vibe with your pushes because they consist of finding error in most people's reads. You spend so much time finding error in someone's whole world of reads but you're not evaluating what specifically is scum-indicative about them.

Honestly, I'm pretty aware that Math could be buddying me since his entry post and I'm just so incredibly unbothered by it. Give me some credit.

What's odd to me is that you immediately go on the offensive before someone defines their strongest reads. It reads like you're finding things to discredit preemptively without voicing why.

Kind of the same way you inquire about what's scummy about Paragon's push onto me. Is Paragon's push onto me scummy or towny? What was my push on him to you? I haven't seen you verify your thoughts here, but I wonder if you're assuming Math should come to this conclusion, or if you're actually trying to figure this out yourself.

That’s a nice generalization based on one post that I’ve just made and am still in the process of following up on.

I don’t care if you notice Math’s buddying or not; it pertains to my read on him, not you. Although it’s weird how little stock you give it. The timing and intensity of your defence is interesting, however, given you haven’t yet caught up on many of the previous pages.

If Math is able to define his strongest reads in a more satisfactory way I may change my vote, but such definitions haven’t been forthcoming.

I’ve already said Paragon’s Taly push was townie.

I'm reserving judgment on

Math's

"supposed buddying"

until he actually explains the read.

My defense of

Math's

post is partially due to most of the people on the same page saying he's scum for it immediately.

It pinged my

"this isn't a town-only push"

button hard.

And I'm pretty caught up on this game

Luca

. I just haven't sat down and reevaluated everything just yet and I don't think people are helping me much here.

Completely fine with you voting based on definitions and not stances and waiting for a response further. That wasn't clear when I read 1110, and that reassures me a little that you're coming from a town perspective.

And what was my push of

Paragon

like,

Luca

? You might want to jog my memory and explain if you said something because I don't think you've brought the thought directly to me.

Taly why don't you like me? I like you.

pops

I really enjoy you, I think I might be tunneling you and I'm trying to break free of that train of thought and I'm having difficulty rationalizing a townread on you.

This isn't personal. I hope you're not genuinely upset with me over the mafia game.

[Taly]

ehhh.... i hope im not being a dick.

[Taly]

Taly on a scale from 0 to 297, where 0 is "if I focus I will realize pops is town" and 297 is "I'm probably going to mislynch her some point this game even if she's town, there seems to be no way to view other perspectives", how much of +99 HP +99 ATK and +99 RCV would you have each?

probably a solid 99 because im legit afraid of you flipping town at this point since im not 100% sold on you scum (or anyone tbh, its D1), I think it's best I stfu and just start the ISOing and let people approach people with questions/assessments.

but honestly how does a

ame/taly/pops/paragon/luca

all-town world function because thats how my reads are forming a little bit at the back of my mind, except maybe

ame

atm but i still think my rationale for her town wasnt too poor.

i just need to rethink and give a refined list.

its so weird because this is such a rambunctious set of players.

and im having fun but also having anxiety? this is such a weird feel in a mafia game, and im not mad at it?

does what i say make any sense?

[Taly]

33 of each*

i want to pose the exact same question to you.

[Taly]

i feel like ive leaped past my scumrange, at least this past page, i dont think any of my posting resembles

Purgatory

, even though i was overworked and in a hydra that game.

im not this ballsy or foolish as scum, regardless of others' alignments.

im much more calculated and subtle

and i get this is probably not the best assessment as its coming from me but that's my take, i dont have recently finished games other than

Purgatory

to back it up.

[Taly]

If eyestott's town, he's either NK bait or a very good late-term slot that perpetuates paranoia, his perception is also slightly skewed.

Can confirm, I am not very good at this game XD'
I am curious though Taly, so please, humor me.

What would your response be if I refused to acquiesce to your request?

Elaborate on the bolded so it's clear what my response would be to --- you'd do?

[Taly]

The only thing that dictates that not all highly active players are town is Gambler's Fallacy. I usually don't play according to fallacies. If you think one of the highly active players is scum, that's the on that's scum, if you don't think any of them seem scummy, then maybe none of them are scum.

Interesting, I'll think on that in the context of 1080

33 of each*

i want to pose the exact same question to you.

0 ATK, 0 HP, but 99 RCV

Because I'm not sure if I will ever feel the spirit of tryhard this game, I have kind of enjoyed playing loose and memeing.

Understandable. I've become this way to an extent, not all of my posts are serious walls anymore and GIFs are a wonderful way to alleviate tension.

I crave mental stimulation and I'm often excitable online and in real life. This combo can make me come across as intense, frenetic, tryhardy, and even awkward.

and im having fun but also having anxiety? this is such a weird feel in a mafia game, and im not mad at it?does what i say make any sense?

Taly is a cute wooper

<3

But FYI, it's not uncommon for me to 1v1 and tunnel, especially as town.

Of course, I get actual frustration and apathy from it often times, but some of my most fun experiences in mafia is a 1v1, or where a group of people are hardsolving the game and aren't letting up on each other - like now.

It's a contrast to what I'd like to play more now, as less heavy-handed and softer.

Namely, if I push you often, it's a sign I like playing with you even if I disagree with you. It's weird. I didn't think I'd be the type of person to bond through intellectual arguing.

[Taly]

If eyestott's town, he's either NK bait or a very good late-term slot that perpetuates paranoia, his perception is also slightly skewed.

Can confirm, I am not very good at this game XD'
I am curious though Taly, so please, humor me.

What would your response be if I refused to acquiesce to your request?

Elaborate on the bolded so it's clear what my response would be to --- you'd do?

i want to answer this

eyestott

but i need to sleep, be quick or wait

[Taly]

If eyestott's town, he's either NK bait or a very good late-term slot that perpetuates paranoia, his perception is also slightly skewed.

Can confirm, I am not very good at this game XD'
I am curious though Taly, so please, humor me.

What would your response be if I refused to acquiesce to your request?

Elaborate on the bolded so it's clear what my response would be to --- you'd do?

Earlier you asked me to make a towncase for you. What would you do if I refused to?

I'd just ask you to towncase someone else that's more popularly suspected/polarizing/scumread.

And if you refused that, then it could make me start thinking of the possibility you're in a w/w dynamic more - or to state/imply that I think you're in one just to thwart the narrative you're universally "conftown"

If not, I'd probably just keeping asking you more questions or start critically evaluating other parts of your posts, so I see what others are seeing and if I townread you as strongly as others do, I'd cross my fingers and hope I'm wrong about how your slot is treated.

[Taly]

anyway, yall better hold me to the ISOing

goodnight

[Taly]

Actually, upon rereading 1071, you provided a readslist, at least a strong idea of one.

Noted.

[Taly]

or before I iso/post readslist >: which I've started on that.

[Taly]

VOTE: Taly

Taly sweetie by the way I'm not interested on discussing with you why you're scum especially given you wall a lot. Nothing personal, if I'm wrong just do your business and I might notice.

Tbh, ouch, but OK.

What about discussing your townreads with me?

[Taly]

I think I can be wrong on lots of my town reads

pops, yshtar, Ame

We can start here.

[Taly]

and also, not really caring about a long-winded interaction atm.

online classes are coming back tomorrow and i need to focus on ISO/readslist before settling

but a given group of reads is a good start

and i need to eat rn

p-edit

i thought you didnt want my input on your scumread of me since i wall too much...

[Taly]

lol, cool, i wasnt interested in defending myself anyway

i got pizza rolls to eat

i cant catch a break this game ...

[Taly]

<3

k disappearing until i get reads/ISO out

[Taly]

I do find Taly's nonchalant reaction to being scumread in this way odd - I expected more frustration/outrage I guess. He had a vastly different reaction to when I was "casing" him a while back. Any reason for that, Taly?

It's just a waste of time, we have 5 days left and I'll be busy for the majority of them.

The one person who's been scumread more OR as much as me is the only person combating any notion that I am scum. The only reason I haven't been wagoned as much as several other people is one or more of a few things:

1)

They're busy sorting others than to deep dive into my ISO, as several people have said would ISO me but haven't.

(Fuzzy/Taco/I think Ame off the top of my head)

2)

They're finding reasons to not take my walls into critical account

(Potentially Luca/Churros, namely)

3)

They're bringing up other people around

"my tier of scummy"

but are resolving them, and giving me less regard.

(Everybody but Pops/Wiisp and perhaps Paragon/Eyestott shares accountability)

4)

My play has been a bit messy, so the

"pendulum"

that

Paragon

has described in reading me is not invalid.

NDMath

and

Churros

have opposite takes on me but they have - at least presumably - a similar amount of content in their read explanations. It'd be problematic if I injected my opinions of their reads preemptively since everybody should discuss this.

I care more about creating a universal solve so in the event I am mislynched, I am helpful.

At this point, if I get mislynched, I get mislynched. This isn't a narrative I control.

I'm tired of explaining my attitude and will stop with this post.

[Taly]

I do find Taly's nonchalant reaction to being scumread in this way odd - I expected more frustration/outrage I guess.

I found it unexpected but it wasn't until you properly put it down that I realized it.

He seemed a lot more fiery with you/pops back there but to be intellectually honest he wouldn't be high on energy/mood at this moment from the looks of it.

I am pretty sure Taly doesn't like me

sigh

, did you read 1266? :/ please stop this.

[Taly]

i mean i like you though,

pops

some of the people i like most outside of mafia on this site have playstyles / approaches that arent too compatible with me

and i dont think enough has happened to conclude that. tbh, im starting to get townvibes from you, and im kicking myself for sitting on a scumread over you even if there were justification for it.

the worst

and i are paranoia supreme together. granted, we've never rolled T/T or S/S except one time where we were T/T and he death-tunneled me when he was in a hydra and i ended up repping out since i couldnt keep up with the game among IRL stuff.

and a lot of my favorite mafia experiences came from people i 1v1'd, one time i TvT'd someone for 3 dayphases straight on/off and we enjoyed playing together after that.

[Taly]

titus

and i have never survived 2 game phases after one of us has died, and we've both SvT'd and TvT's on both sides before.

but i like seeing her in a plist.

[Taly]

Time to start with the person I'm voting.

Spoiler: Y'shtola ISO

Link/Early Section

-

Tbh, the only thing that pings me about

Y'shtola's

opening post/engagement with me: 5 and 7, 47, 54 and 57, 63 and 97 is that she doesn't take accountability for her vote, nor does she use it as a basis to solve anyone or assert a read. I do like her openness to engage, yet there's no initiation. This could be playstyle, though.

-

124 is again, me thinking that her approach is likelier newer town. Her posts aren't deceptive, they're just not quite critical. 220 to 224 are all straight forward interactions, which bare little substance, though

220

doesn't feel like it'd come from S/S with

Alo

since there's no assumptions about each other's feel of the slot.

221

outlines her motivation for wanting to help a player (me wagon

Fuzzy

), but my exercise for asking her vote was more to help see her approach and POV of the game - this could come from either alignment, I feel.

222

is bothersome since it has no conclusion on

Alo's

alignment despite posting about him, but I think it's likelier town-indicative of at least one of them, I'd think scum's wishy-washy stance on a partner would've been harsher and more difficult to follow.

223 and 224

aren't much beyond

Y'shtola

asking and clarifying, which is alright.

257 shows a depth of thought in her reads;

Paragon

listed that I'm solving in good faith,

Ame

is town via meta, and that

Wiisp

is playing unwise for scum based on his thinking -

Y'shtola

doesn't find these as reasons to think someone is town and even refrains from judging

Pops' 1v1 with me

as specifically towny or scummy. Now, if she was saying

"these 3 or 4 cannot be towny or scummy based on

Paragon's

reasoning"

, I'd feel like

Y'shtola's

passivity is agenda-based, but she's making observations here and not discrediting townreads that she doesn't quite feel herself.

257

illustrates a town-minded behavior.

-

392 I had to quote this post so people can explicitly see this:

I don't believe that testing something that is proven to be impossible will be a worthwhile contribution to the game. I will vote popsofctown only if I feel I need to in order to advance the game or because I am entirely convinced that she is a Sin Eater.

In a world regardless of

Pop's/Paragon's

alignment - especially in relation to each other - the fact that

Y'shtola

just disregards any reason to vote someone outside of what she deems as appropriate is actually quite towny. I feel like during the

Pops/Paragon

wagon/scumread conflict with

Rabid/Robb

,

Y'shtola

-scum would capitalize on this with a push - but doesn't. 414 and 416 solidifies her stance here.

Am I going crazy? How on earth is it that TWO SEPARATE PEOPLE are claiming posting restrictions in a normal game?
It can’t be a coincidence can it?


Pedit: I give up. VOTE: Popsofctown
Will remove my vote once Yshtola votes Beyoncé here

Pops is joking.
Paragon is pretending that his self-imposed restriction is official.

It is as simple as that.

Another quote that had to be seen.

Y'shtola

cool-headedly assessing the claims like this while 4+ players arguing is either very perceptive town or really good scum - and I'm leaning on town from her ISO so far.

543 is a bit odd from

Y'shtola

because she pretty much just voted

Pops

because

Ame

said she was scum and

Y'shtola

hadn't voiced a townread on

Ame

or spoke to her much until this point... and

Y'shtola

gave me the impression from her early posts that

pops

could be towny.. This was AFTER my

Taly V Paragon

posting spree where I scumread

{Fuzzy/Pops/Paragon}

collectively, so I want to know if that prompted her

Pops

vote and/or if her read of

Ame

was the tipping point. This doesn't ping me enough to push on her, though.

-

666 and 667 but I guess

Pops

isn't scum? Was the vote to advance the game? This is where

Y'shtola's

posting can become unclear. 674 gets a +1 from me because I didn't like that

Luca

entered the thread focusing on why he shouldn't be suspected because of

Rabid's

replace-out which is always policy NAI to me. I think

Luca's

AtE here was justifiably rebuked. But I do agree with

Y'shtola's

approach change in 686 because

Luca

gave valid reasons between the difference of

Rabid

-scum and

Rabid

-town frustration.

I don't dislike parts of

Luca's

entrance because of his reasoning, but why he felt the need to defend himself. This might change when I ISO him.

-

892 to 895;

892

is where I think she speaks about

Luca

which makes sense given her previous posting.

893

is where I think she is trying to figure out where my feelings are coming from, so that's alright.

894

is meh so I wish she at least said why she didn't feel the need to comment, could be considered dismissive of her.

895

is a vote on a player that I had little doubt who would flake out at that point in the game, but I see no issue with it. 907 is vague but whatever, nothing unusual.
You know, in a gamestate where only 4-6 people have consistently posted and bit at each other for 20+ pages, 1007 where

Y'shtola

says scum wouldn't be so vocal is a valid gamestate read.

Major Insight

Tbh at this moment,

Y'shtola

only makes sense as scum if she has

AT LEAST ONE PARTNER

in

{Luca/Ame/Pops/Paragon}

by

1007's

post and the consistent suspicion on her from the more active players to be bus-minded. But then again, I think

Y'shtola

is town based off what I'm seeing, so this is just a boundary on the realities I can see her as scum.

I don't know,

Y'shtola

being scum in a reality that's not like the above... like bravo, how the fuck can this be faked? I want to be challenged on this.

1014, 1019, and 1021 is probably the chillest manner someone's responded to my pushes this game, much calmer than

Pops/Paragon/Fuzzy

so I'm not bothered by this, tbh.

Quote/Recent Section

LOL

eyestott

that sounds fun.

I'm busy studying atm but I'm glad you are doing well.

Y'shtola

, I want a readslist

The Warriors of Light within this game are in a state of confusion. Our focus should be on our future, towards the world that will soon cease to be if we are not able to rid of it the Sin Eaters housed within. However, they are instead focused on our petty quarrels, those which will cease to matter in our hour of reckoning. Do those who live only for paradise have immunity to the world collapsing under the weight of the excess light? Indeed not! However, there are those who would still cling to these pleasures in their final hours to deny their fate. As such, there are those here who would deny their fate in turn, bickering amongst themselves while the Sin Eaters reach their blighted touch across our land, corrupting those within their path unfortunate enough to be in their way.

These aethers shine brightly, those who would fight for their own world. True Warriors of Light are these, as the Sin Eaters flinch away and other Warriors of Light stand tall, trusting in their own virtue to shield them from the inner strength radiating from the blessing within their foes. Sin Eaters cannot hold long against such might, at least, unless they are in the presence of a Lightwarden. However, I will dispense of such possibilities for the moment. The truth of the matter is that your focus is splintered across too many places at once. If you wish to see the world for how it is, rather than from your own simplified view, then cast aside your doubts and your squabbles and join me in the fight. I wish only to save our world, and I need Warriors of Light to lead the charge.

As evidence, you know within your heart that those who fight you directly are Warriors of Light. Who flinches at your gaze? Who wishes to remain unseen through and through, seeking to corrupt us while we sleep as we forget their presence within the daylight? Seek your prey there, for you will find it. Do not search for a Lightwarden. Such a search is a fruitless endeavor while there are Sin Eaters afoot in any case.

Do I have your pledge of assistance, Warrior of Light? If you wish to banish the light threatening to destroy our world, I ask only for your hand in friendship. Only together may we triumph.

These last two pages are saddening. Why must Warriors of Light quarrel so?

So the gist of what I get from her is that all the people directly bickering or engaging in arguments with each other trying to sort the game out are most probably town.

This reinforces the insight I garnered in

1007

about her, but still makes me think she's town for this. If you replace

Warriors of Light

with

Town

and

Sin Eaters

with

Scum

and reread her largest posts, her thought process and reads are pretty straight forward.

also

yshtola

do me a favor and actually provide reads, it can't be that much of a stretch, if you somehow need help forming them after 45 pages then you have to hold my hand and point out how to help you. I can't rationalize how you can be town until you do.

I have made my strides towards defeating the Sin Eaters, and my work has been shown when asked for. If you would ignore my warnings and give no passing thought to my further posting, then there is little more we can discuss. I will find others to aid in the quest. If you wish to avoid this, listen as well as read. The answers you seek have already been revealed to you.

"yo, townread, I'm not going to waste time explaining myself when you aren't critically reading me so let me do me, and you get to work"

which I seriously spiritually connect to this response.

My energy for mafia is too low this night already, I'll come back later.

By the way Yshtar I know you love wagons and seems to think math is towny for some reason so...

wink wink

killing woopers is a fun sport

You do a poor job of hiding yourself.

Is there justice within this world? My heart says yes, the time of redemption for our world is at hand, and our actions today will create that world we seek. We needs only grasp it.

UNVOTE: Churros
VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

I'm really wondering what she's thinking of

Churros

, because I see the implication of a scumread that dissipated slightly, but I WANT to read more into this?

But I want to see how the interaction between

Y'shtola-Churros

evolve.

Explain how you pick who to follow, Miss Y'shtola. You're implying you've picked me. Why?

The town disagrees on things, you cannot follow everyone.

While Warriors of Light continue to bicker and quarrel, I will not follow them. It falls to those who see beyond the mundane that are truly fit to lead in these times. The power of the Echo is what decides this, for the truth is known through it.

This post makes everything about

Y'shtola's

ISO and approach have more sense to it.

She's not gamesolving by aligning cases because she's oriented to working with the game thread and seeing the nuances between people, and push when nobody else voices a thought, or if her townread is giving an assessment. Her passivity isn't scum-indicative since she actually provides depth to her thinking.

I actually think her vagueness with terminology and flavor serves as a barrier for scum. I think scum-aligned players are more inclined to ignore or paint her posts as too "out there" and push it as a narrative on why she's scum.

For the things that DO seem ambiguous or potentially scum-indicative, they aren't in high enough mass or volume for me to want a lynch here. I think it's better to just read

Y'shtola

more critically without blankly saying she's ineffective because she isn't as brash as most players here. The lack of voice behind this train of thought on her make me feel she's likelier town.

I don't want

Y'shtola's

lynch.

UNVOTE:

Y'shtola,

hear me out, as the Tiger Clan Ambassador:



Do you wish to join me in restoring the good faith of our gracious Warriors of Light, and band together through these grim times to incapacitate those who work to defile our alliances? Are you prepared to aid me as my equal to discover the Sin Eaters?

non-game side note

So, I think I might have the virus so gonna have to low-effort while I recover. I'll still be reading, just not very deeply. Sorry!

omg, please take care of yourself

paragon <3

:/ be aware of your body and don't take unnecessary risks.

[Taly]

Conclusion Summary of Y'shtola:

Above everything, unless I'm horribly, horribly misled and that her playstyle actually births from a malicious perspective - which is really hard to identify since she has maybe 1-2 games max - she feels very confidently town to me and I'd defend her lynch, tbh.

Next Up On Taly's ISO Journey That He Scrambles to Finish!

Fuzzy

is probably next just out of ease in reading his ISO due to low post count,

NDMath

too but I want to hold off until I sort others,

Churros

in same boat.

I have a soul townread on

Wiisp

and I'm afraid so I need to get that shit checked.

Pops/Paragon

have the largest ISOs and people I'm most biased with based off 1v1s preflip so I'll get to them but fuck, not sure if I'm looking forward to that lol

I need a MUCH better hold on

Ame/Luca

than I do now.

I literally forgot

Alo

was in this game so I'm worried, tbh.

Stay tuned for a critical reading of

eyestott

!

[Taly]

Yshtola Rhul has asked me to be replaced with her own alt,

Blake Belladonna

, which I will allow.

I almost pissed myself because I know

Blake

VERY well.

For slightly different reasons now, my confident, strong townread remains on the slot. My only curiosity is why she alt-switched but ISOing others takes priority rn - and I don't think having her spew an explanation is productive at the moment.

@Taly
soul town read based off what?
also, dont be scared



J/K

<3

don't worry, I'll get to you.

[Taly]

k cool, nice that I'm playing with you

It makes sense a bit more now.

Yshtola

had pretty high quality play for a new player.

[Taly]

Don't let anyone ever think I'm good at alt-hunting x_x

I only like to play Hearthstone in languages I understand, Paragon.

I read the Y'shtola towncase and some of the logic is good but I don't have quite as much faith in it as Taly does. I'm not convinced Taly doesn't know Y'shtola's alignment, for that matter.

I need a MUCH better hold on

Ame/Luca

than I do now.

Ame rolled town this game
Focus on Luca
I slept on it
More precisely I thought about it in a drowsy state after the battery in my Switch died while I pet Loki and drifted off
I don't even have the "if she's scum he has earned the win" feeling I expected to have to feel. If she's scum it's a different reality that's less tangible than the one I think I'm in, or something

I'm not some 5-Star Edgelord scum who's going to put THIS much effort in townreading a suspected player when I'm more likely eating rope today.

But because of your inquiry,

Luca

has risen in priority on quickness of ISOing. Plan to have 2-4 more ISOs done by tomorrow.

[Taly]

No one put her at L-1 yet please btw. There's still stuff I'd like from other players.

Any ISOs I should prioritize doing tomorrow aside from

Luca/Fuzzy

?

[Taly]

:/ Replace-outs are just going to delay making a decision.

Also, yeah really, none of this plist has been malicious and that's actually surprising with as strong-willed multiple of us are.

[Taly]

It's hard to measure this game to normal D1's as we still have 4 days left and we're nearing 1500 posts.

We're not overly chatty and shitposting, either.

A lot of slots have content to parse and people are consistent.

So I don't know.

Eyestott

, how do you feel about

Ame

being OK going to lylo with you because the statement fucked with my brain very hard.

[Taly]

Damnit, three people*
Why’d it fuck with your brain?

It embodies all the problems I have with the reads on you.

Ame

literally said:

~Eyes I'd take to lylo, but despite what I said earlier I still don't have them as solid town. They just give me the vibe of someone who could deepwolf. I skimmed through their last scum game and it was quite different, but it was also years ago.

She said that you COULD be a deepwolf but she's openly admitting to that but she's not critically solving you.

She says that you're not solid town but she's saying that she'd take you to lylo.

How the fuck does this come from town - especially in D1?

Like, if

Ame

were town, and

you

were town: Wonderful! But... not really, because her read isn't reliable here.
If

Ame

were town, and

you

were scum: Good game, scum wins.
If

Ame

were scum, and

you

were town: Well, that makes a lot of sense why she's townreading you, and more sense because she's stating there's a reality that you're scum if you make it to endgame, which is a load of WIFOM.
If

Ame

were scum, and

you

were scum: Really good plan to have scum townbloc together or at least construct a bus prior to much discussion since the read was never really resolved.

None of these are desirable outcomes, and nobody else in this game sees it the way I do and THAT'S what fucks me up even more.

[Taly]

Does anybody see the points I make this game? What the fuck

[Taly]

It was a weird comment, but I’m not seeing it being as big an issue are you’re making out. I assume she meant bring him to LYLO and only then reconsider which, yes, could be a valid scum plan but could easily have a townie motive behind it. I think her play for most of the game verges on being obvtown, which far outweighs a slightly weird comment imo.

I see your point, and yes, I am making this out more than what it is on the surface.

I've lost town games to this mentality. I've been in

Eyestott's

position.

[Taly]

I don't know, I'm just telling you guys that these are the type of posts that I don't know how to solve, so I need help with them.

[Taly]

With posts like this, I don't know if you're creating WIFOM for yourself or WIFOM for the rest of us. I get the feeling it's for yourself, which is unnecessary, really.

Myself, 1482 is how my brain works when I read reads like that.

If WIFOM was meant for all of you, I wouldn't be nearly as upfront and honest.

[Taly]

Fuzzy's ISO... not spoiler'ed because since only Pops commented on my Blake ISO I have no faith that any of you have read it.

Hello Y'all

Full Claim:
I am the town Potato.... so voting for me is scummy

also
VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

@ Eyestott.....
well the thing you should know is that I am always town

anyway welcome back

i have been playing off and on since i started.
i am a bit disappointed...I was hoping to draw scum. Oh well maybe i can improve my town win rate.

actually it is a neutral statement as it might be scum trying to play off thier scumness or it could be a scum favored player who actually drew town. Btw it is the latter

i enjoy playing as scum but given the probabilities of the draw it is more likely a person will draw town.


@ Paragon...
why Wisp? any particular reason

A lot of this is

Fuzzy

just stating how he's town in various different manners. I don't understand why he feels the need to spout this out unless he's either working to gamesolve, not applying much effort, or is deflecting. Only 1 of these 3 motivations is definitively scum-indicative in my mind.

27 and 29

have little to no substance as he presents a reality of WIFOM with a fact that there is more town than scum... this is common knowledge, but I can't say he's defending himself or more or less stating, because he starting to accrue votes. His posting is vague here, but his inquiry of

Wiisp

being voted by

Paragon

in 28 gives me pause, he never pushes an opinion on either of the two slots involved in his questionnaire, so his motivations can be quite open-ended.

32 does not help this idea, as he's practically not adding any nuanced thought until more people enter the thread. The fact that he waits for this could be because he's waiting for another wagon to form, or potential scumbuddies to acquire content. It's very

"other people can do the work"

but it's subtle.

I am trying to figure out honest votes bc the are honestly scum reading me and scum who might of jumped on my wagon c they saw an opportunity. i do not do great reading people and do better with VCA. I dislike to call to help wagon me especially so early in the game. its super scummy. My issue is I don't know if scum would be so blatantly openly scummy. There are a few other who seem to
casually jump on my wagon without much reason. i do think they need to be sorted at some point.

This is where I'm starting to see that the 1 of 3 motivations I listed earlier are the most likely reality. While I agree with scum wanting to jump on a wagon opportunistically,

Fuzzy

does all but state that he has no answers for this. He doesn't even evaluate the people that specifically voted him to resolve it. That's where it's odd because he signals that scum exist by an action they've probably taken but does nothing with it.

Not sure LAL is a good strat here. Lying is definitely anti-town but it is not necessarily scummy.

Paragon
- do you stick with your claim?
- why should we not lynch you for lying?

This isn't poor questioning, but

Fuzzy

saying LAL isn't opportune at this point and taking pause on jumping to the wagon feels slightly towny on his end? He's focusing on a prominent topic in the thread but he's not jumping on it. I know this can be interpreted with a scum-motive, but I'm not confident since he's genuinely asking

Paragon

for justification.

Yeah,I meant post dodge but my brain froze- ugh

I don't get Paragons post restriction bit as it has been confirmed that Post restrictions are non-normal. So either he either doing it for fun or

he has a role that requires him to lie.

Either seems likely at this point. Speaking of Paragon if he flips town then I would bet that there is at least one scum maybe two on that wagon. I am not if any scum might be bussing as it a hard thing to tell early in the game. There seems to be quite a few jumping on the Paragon wagon with no to little reason which makes me a bit nervous about his wagon

I played with the Great Boon last game.....It was very entertaining, I can confirm that he does all those things.

Oh ok- I played Rob . Played against his alt Wimpy and Jake from state farm. Been a while though so I don't remember much about his playstyle

I'm just going to say that the bolded is not possible as that should be deemed non-normal.

So if he's just doing this for fun?

Fuzzy

makes no conclusion here... he literally just says it could be town or scum, it's hard to tell, and even says the wagon itself makes him nervous?

Why does this wagon bother him if it's on a slot that he doesn't have a conclusive read on? I understand that there could be scum opportunistically jumping there, but as with his earlier posting,

Fuzzy

signals that scum exist but does nothing.

Town
Lets lynch people for random stuff

Town
Yeah!!!!

...said this when

Pops/He

were around L-3/L-5 each...

Luca
True I tend to be more relax ..... I have been away for a while so I am trying something different. Plus I stayed up listening to those self realization videos. If they dont work they guarantee to give me my wooden nickel back. Wait something seems fishy about that.

Seriously though I am trying to be more assertive in various areas of my life. Look at the last game I played. You can see that I acted similar there.

Aloratom
I am pretty good once we hit scum. I usually analyze the wagon and with pretty good accuracy can say if scum is on the wagon and how many. Last game I had scum nailed, however, I was not very confident so I let them slip by. Its likely that there is scum on me and Paragon wagon. We seem both to be very lynchbaity, Even if Paragon is scum I can see scum bussing there. he is just so easy of a target, I am kinda thinking Paragon is newb town but I need more time to sort him out.



Can someone explain why we should lynch Paragon other than his fake claim which was terrible? He is a newb so maybe we should let him live so we can sort him out better
Unless there is a good reason we should I think we should dump the Paragon wagon.

I am not sure of Pops so I can not VCA there

Also, I rather get lynched then Paragon.

I think he needs more time to be sorted.

OK...

Fuzzy/Paragon

isn't S/S.

Fuzzy

-scum being a likely lynch trying to protect another scumbuddy? I don't believe that at all because that almost always incriminates

Paragon

-scum anyway.

Fuzzy

-scum trying to push a mislynch on

Paragon

upon his knowledge of flipping red? Considering

Fuzzy's

704, which I vividly remember, seems like an actual possibility.

Fuzzy

-town trying to protect

Paragon

who can be town or scum...

Fuzzy

says this with needing more time to evaluate it's possible coming from town... but again, too vague to derive further information.

It is true that

Paragon

WOULD be an easy lynch/push, so it actually gives a townvibe when

Fuzzy

states this.

Major Insight

Yeah, only definite conclusion is

Fuzzy/Paragon

isn't S/S. Town must be here. T/T is also equally likely as S/T. Anyone who wants a lynch between these two may do well to re-evaluate.

@Taly
Fine Lynch, me i dont care... I trying to do the best I can. I m not going to fake reads and thoughts to make yall happy. It takes a bit for me to put my thoughts together/ I know I not super helpful atm. I am not like you and can make instant-reads. If yall cant understand that than just it over with......Also how am any worse/ scummier then those who are jumping on the easiest wagon available and making zero reason to explain why.???

I think Paragon is newbtown. that is the vibe I am getting from him, I gues he could be newbscum but my potato senses is telling me newb town.

Btw- I was right about Paragon in post 388- (So there that)

I'm really annoyed that

Fuzzy

just gave up when I actually just wanted conversation with him. It doesn't feel genuine, and if it was, just why?

But he is now supporting

Paragon

off the idea that he's town and is saying the wagon on

Paragon

potentially has scum on it...

Fuzzy's

focus on townreads, even if it's just one person, doesn't quite feel scum-indicative? I don't see scum do this type of thing often if he is scum. I feel like

Fuzzy

would've gone to the conclusion of hard-defending

Paragon

or not much earlier than the culmination of 300+ posts.

I'm actually inclined to think that if there is scum within

Fuzzy/Paragon

, it's

Paragon

. But this also conflicts with the insight I had with 645 that

Fuzzy

is concealing a mislynch, which seemed probable when reading 704. I'm not coming to much further judgment here until I read his ISO and can come back to this ISO with a full readslist in mind.

Thought maybe Paragon may be played on a different site.....

Paragon
So you should be town reading me...... as you should know this is very much Derp town Fuzzy!

No new reads as yet......

._. I still don't understand the long-term focus on

Paragon

but I can't say it's AI for

Fuzzy

?

VOTE: Pop

There was 1 maybe two post that read town but everything seemed forced. They don't explain why they are voting for a person unless
asked as if they are hoping that they can sneak in a vote. It could be just playstyle but overall I am just getting a scum vibe from them. I kinda want to see where this leads

Did

Fuzzy

ever say where this went...? I'm not seeing so.

I woke up and there was an extra 7 pages

- Ames
I am liking Ames more and more. She seems to be trying to sort. #837really reads as an attempt to sort me. Like the reasoning behind #123. I am strong town reading her atm.
I will find a scum game for you. As far a being different from the last game I am not sure. Not sure If I have a consistent game atm....as 1) I'm
starting back up 2) Trying to adjust to new playstyles 3) I am trying to find my own. If you want to scum read for that then that's okay

-Pops
There is nothing new about Pops that changes my mind. #962 says it better then I prob could. They seem optimistic. If they really believed I was scum they would push harder for my lynch rather then jumping off when the wagon got weak.
Pops can you link that game, please?

Paragon

him being a alt changes my opinion of them a bit. I tend to give them less leeway as they have more experience. In that light claiming a
post restriction is bad. I don think it is scum. I am trying to avoid WIFOM ( wine in front of me). It makes it harder to read them. Overall I don't remember Paragon doing very much or really adding very much.

I will try to contribute more

OK, yeah

Fuzzy

is probably town for the bolded. I just don't see the point that scum would make to do such an elaborate read progression on one slot, and he's openly admitting that he doesn't want to WIFOM.

Plus, with his reasons of saying

"scum exists here"

in terms of opportunistic wagons, his reasoning for voting

Pops

may be very simple, but it aligns with what he would believe to be scum.

-Ames
here is my scum game. I am super proud if it to be honest TBH
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 7&start=25

I am very mixed on Tally I need to take a deep dive. I am just hoping to make it past day one as it usually my worst day. Takes me a bit to get started.

Luca
will get back with a better read on Pops . If I forget its okay to poke with a sharp stick or preferably a wet noodle.

I am ADD so I do get dis.....
Ohh look something shiny

Fuzzy's

read on me is probably the most honest read of me this whole game.

Tbh, I just want him to discuss

Pops

more... if he were scum he should've had more voting strength by now, even if his partners were trying to buss him...

Those voting Math..... are they based on just Math or are you including Rob posts as well?

Actually, this is a VERY good question and I want an answer to this.

Churros huh, I was hoping for a pizza vendor.
Anyways Welcome Charro

Supposing what Churro said it is true then Churro or Rhul could be scum. This is, of course, playing outguess the Mod which can be fun but is 99.99 percent dumb. I guess I should
avoid it. Speaking of Can Rhul confirm that you are a mason with Churro/

Math
When do you plan to get to answering your list?

Taly thanks for the reminder..i get easily distracted. I will try to ISO by the next time I post

He's engaging with

Math

- a wagon - inquisitively...

Churros/Rhul

in his mind has some sort of interaction to pick up on? I want him to clarify here.

Actually, with the promise to ISO, it feels genuine and towny given his later posting.

game off...

These are my opinion and have no relevance to the game. i thought that Wisp comment was inappropriate but not worth them quitting over. Maybe it because i am ADD so i know what it is like to say dumb things sometimes and then realize it was something you should not say. I hope Whisp can grow from this and i wish them tne best

I hope Ames sticks around. i think she is an interesting player. Kinda hoping that she she doees not need to quit

Nobody here is toxic... i have played with toxic player on this site and no one even come close to that.
.
I hope everyone can take a deep breathe and move on

i would say we all need to hug it out but that seems inappropriate given the current cicumstances

Game on.....

Not so game related but

Fuzzy

seems like a pretty cool guy.

Conclusion:

Fuzzy

is confidently town to me and I think he's just being hard mislynch-baited. Even in the reality that he's somehow scum - I want to pay attention to heavy, critical several other slots before I consider lynching - but yeah, I'm feeling town.

All of you guys should choose better lynches.

[Taly]

Hi.

please god help me, i cant do this shit alone

[Taly]

All right, Taly's locktown :3

What do you need help with?

I just towncased two widely suspected lynch targets

Y'shtola/Blake

and

Fuzzy

. Both of them scumread each other, and are the FEW people with HONEST townreads/mixed-reads on me.

I have two people with incredibly opposing read views on me

NDMath

says I'm town,

Churros

- a replacement, is hardpushing me as sucm.

Majority of the town is focused on suspecting me but not quite resolving me. My impact this game is incredibly hot/cold (cold for the longer period of time) as half of the plist has dominated this thread.

(Luca/Ame (replaced out)/Paragon/Pops/Taly)

I still have 9 more ISOs to go I think? We got 4 days.

[Taly]

I have two people with incredibly opposing read views on me NDMath says I'm town, Churros - a replacement, is hardpushing me as sucm.

Actually,

NDMath

is a replacement too, just been here longer, with less posts.

Interesting.

[Taly]

Why are you so worried about what people think of you, Taly?

Fmpov I don’t confidently trust you yet, but I’m not considering voting you today. Not everything needs to be resolved D1.

I need to catch-up a bit, will read your walls soon.

Not worried, just frustrated. I don't sit well with people shelving me, and I don't feel like people have engaged with me too faithfully.

I should probably chill.

[Taly]

Hey, I might not get to all the ISOs in time.

I'm not in a good headspace right now. I feel very powerless IRL and while I enjoy the stimulation of mafia, I need to lower my effort for a bit so I can become grounded.

[Taly]

I'm not telling you to do anything

S_S

, I'm telling you the current gamestate from my POV and I want to see where you take that.

And my

"towncases"

for

Blake/Fuzzy

aren't boring, unreadable towncases... they're ISOs, and I point out each post that makes me think there COULD be scum motivation, too. Those ISOs are me reconciling a read even when I don't have an instant, confident grasp on the read prior. I just did

Fuzzy/Blake

first since they were of the recent wagons, and I outline that I have no intention to lynch there.

[Taly]

Actually, this is a VERY good question and I want an answer to this.

Mine includes Robb's posts. But I don't think that Robb did anything particularly AI. I think he was fixing to get locked into a tunnel on Paragon and am happy he switched his vote to Pops. I say that last bit because that could have put a lot of stress on the game, not because I'm just happy that he switched off of Paragon and onto Pops -- I disagreed with that as a game play.

But the slot overall took a dive with NDMath's entrance, although I need to take a closer look at NDMath's most recent posts.

Yeah, we need more dialogue on the

NDMath's

scumreads.

Well, what would you like me to do? You did say you wanted my help.

Well, if you have time, I'd like you to review my ISOs on those 2.

You can also ISO or read-into

NDMath

and

Pops

since they're also suspected.

Or you can look into

Churros

who is the second newest replacement to see how he gathered a grasp of this game.

[Taly]

Major Insight
Tbh at this moment, Y'shtola only makes sense as scum if she has AT LEAST ONE PARTNER in {Luca/Ame/Pops/Paragon} by 1007's post and the consistent suspicion on her from the more active players to be bus-minded. But then again, I think Y'shtola is town based off what I'm seeing, so this is just a boundary on the realities I can see her as scum.

I don't know, Y'shtola being scum in a reality that's not like the above... like bravo, how the fuck can this be faked? I want to be challenged on this.

Let's talk about this then. Can you explain it in a bit more depth? Where did that list come from?

I just don't follow the consistent notion that

Y'shtola

is passive and providing no content when it's really the fault of everybody else just not critically evaluating her. It feels like an easy push for scum or a bus target.

I know

Pops

voted her ;-; I thought more of

Luca/Paragon/Ame

had voted her.

392 433 543 666 and 667 felt like an interesting progression from her since she is one of the most sensible people correlated to the wagon on

Pops/Paragon

, then follows

Ame

on the

Pops

vote which leads to presumably nowhere. Her interaction with

Luca

started as a push and settled quickly.

Best Points-

A Sin Eater is a being with few words and fewer actions. A Sin Eater's actions being to idly push a single narrative is a reasonable assumption, for those who would give in to their base instincts of feasting on living aether become similar in demeanor. However, those who would later expand on that narrative and show themselves to have more riding beneath the surface than idle chatter! Those are more like the Warriors of Light I know.

I don't get why

Y'shtola

-scum would signal scumbuddies within the less active players of the thread. This doesn't look good in any scumflip within

Ame/Luca/Paragon/Pops

off my first thought.

1071 reinforces this read of the gamestate, so it made me think my insight had credibility.

Major Insight
Tbh at this moment, Y'shtola only makes sense as scum if she has AT LEAST ONE PARTNER in {Luca/Ame/Pops/Paragon} by 1007's post and the consistent suspicion on her from the more active players to be bus-minded. But then again, I think Y'shtola is town based off what I'm seeing, so this is just a boundary on the realities I can see her as scum.

I don't know, Y'shtola being scum in a reality that's not like the above... like bravo, how the fuck can this be faked? I want to be challenged on this.

Let's talk about this then. Can you explain it in a bit more depth? Where did that list come from?

Let me try this again.

Are you talking about the partner list of {Luca/Ame/Pops/Paragon}? Because I'm wondering about that too. I think Y'shtola can be read scum independently.

What's the scumread on here and we're >3 days to deadline so you should do something here...

Ultimately, I think

Y'shtola

is town anyway.

[Taly]

Blake, I could settle on Fuzzy for today but what if I tell you I'm getting a deja-vu on your strong TR in Taly? Not budging?

Look at associatives between Fuzzy x Taly that I talked about. Not even a finger of self-doubt?

I just ISO'd

Fuzzy

, put that into your case since you're not getting much ground.

Just a thought.

[Taly]

oof, I'm going to be doing people's work for them...

Alo/NDMath/Luca

are actually next ISOs.

Luca

, I'm having a lot of trouble fathoming the votepark wagon on

NDMath

.

For 50+ pages of content, a replace-in getting the lynch for a

"bad readslist"

that's no worse than most other readslist in this game - AND has expressed that they haven't provided a full train of thought... it's just doesn't feel lynch-worthy, or overtly scum-indicative.

With this stagnant voting near EoD1, I'm starting to think most of scum have casted their votes and have consistently bloc'ed onto one of the day's major wagons, potentially even the current ones

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

I believe town is on that wagon, but I don't think it's scum-pushed... If the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

Regardless of

NDMath's

alignment, I don't think this wagon is getting anywhere other than one of the stalest ass lynches that we could pull right now.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate.

[Taly]

f the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

also, inb4 I have more people associative-read me scum with

Luca, NDMath, Fuzzy, Wiisp's Slot or even Blake

.

[Taly]

f the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

also, inb4 I have more people associative-read me scum with

Luca, NDMath, Fuzzy, Wiisp's Slot or even Blake

.

omfg i hate quotes

but I

think

it's

likelier

scum-pushed

p-edit

oof, I'm going to be doing people's work for them...

Alo/NDMath/Luca

are actually next ISOs.

Luca

, I'm having a lot of trouble fathoming the votepark wagon on

NDMath

.

For 50+ pages of content, a replace-in getting the lynch for a

"bad readslist"

that's no worse than most other readslist in this game - AND has expressed that they haven't provided a full train of thought... it's just doesn't feel lynch-worthy, or overtly scum-indicative.

With this stagnant voting near EoD1, I'm starting to think most of scum have casted their votes and have consistently bloc'ed onto one of the day's major wagons, potentially even the current ones

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

I believe town is on that wagon, but I don't think it's scum-pushed... If the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

Regardless of

NDMath's

alignment, I don't think this wagon is getting anywhere other than one of the stalest ass lynches that we could pull right now.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate.

Very good point, Taly. Specifically that last line. UNVOTE:
If you had some voting power; who would you have lynched today?

I really wanted to hear

Churros

out, but the fact that they dismissed my POV, voted me, and is just sitting there does not feel genuine, tbh.

Like, if you were town, are you going to throw out a readslist within less than hours of replacing-in, vote and push to hardwagon at suspected slot late-D1, and then not contribute?

Churros

has some valid points, but gamestate, tone, and behavior all push to scum. :/

The problem? Town can play this way. And I really don't vibe with that.

[Taly]

Churros

being the off-wagon scum if there's a 3p team, in the gamestate read I gave above.

[Taly]

Pops

hasn't done a thing to make me reevaluate my scumread based off her recent posting, but

AtE is kryptonite.

So :/ I don't want to her think I dislike her.

And I should ISO her... and she hopped off

NDMath

when he got to L-3.

Luca

is probable scum if

NDMath's

wagon contains another scum... But I addressed

Luca

in the above post so I can help sort through that.

Paragon

, idk. I don't know how to read him, tbh.

[Taly]

Blake/Wiisp

being scumbuddies on

Fuzzy

would be a mindfuck since I feel that

Blake

is town and wasn't sold on a

Wiisp

lynch until his replace-out.

And idk about

S_S

yet, very few opinions of the game so I have very few opinions of him since he just got here.

FB needs a hug <3 *hugs*

p-edit

With regards to my ‘vote park’, I was waiting ages for Math to explain himself, and what I’ve seen hasn’t made me feel any better about him. I need to catch up on a lot but I’m feeling really demotivated to play Mafia right now.

Understandable.

Actually, I can see

Churros

-scum without gamestate read, tbh.

[Taly]

wasn't sold on a Wiisp lynch

even at

his replace-out.

[Taly]

Actually, I can see Churros-scum without gamestate read, tbh.

VOTE: Churros

Perhaps you'll take me seriously now.

[Taly]

Ok there's something else bugging me as well. I joined this game with a momentum from another game (Normal 2124) where I came in, explained my SR on FL and we swiftly lynched scum, which made me for some reason think that I would talk about Taly and everyone would go "oh wow, I see it" and we would lynch it, it would flip red, everyone would have a blast etc. That's not what happened though and due to multiple reasons I'm consistently losing gas on pushing directions. I wanna just casually drop comments and votes. Doing any more than that feels silly to me at the moment.

You could say that...I realized I wanted to be as great as Firebringer.

I'm kind of mad this didn't happen.

I mean, not the red flip part because that's impossible. Hate to break it to you.

But tbh, I sympathize with you over not getting any fucking traction after 20+ posts of pushing/asking about wagoning/lynching me.

It's the type of shit I've faced all game.

Ok there's something else bugging me as well. I joined this game with a momentum from another game (Normal 2124) where I came in, explained my SR on FL and we swiftly lynched scum, which made me for some reason think that I would talk about Taly and everyone would go "oh wow, I see it" and we would lynch it, it would flip red, everyone would have a blast etc. That's not what happened though and due to multiple reasons I'm consistently losing gas on pushing directions. I wanna just casually drop comments and votes. Doing any more than that feels silly to me at the moment.

You could say that...I realized I wanted to be as great as Firebringer.

The world where Blake is scum with Taly makes plenty of sense admittedly

fmpov Taly isn't really scumreading any scum, only scumreads I remember from him are Paragon and me, really.

As of now Blake is townreading Taly and I give a good bit of weight to that because I believe her to be above average at reads. She's also familiar with Taly. The biggest thing to watch out for is them being scum together.

VOTE: FuzzyLogic99

Sorry,

Blake

and I are not this weak as scum, individually or together. Also, what was that thing you said about

"you preflip associative people won't take me"

? I'm feeling some deja-vu, here.

And I agree with you. I literally looked at the thread and I just couldn't find a definitive lynch or person I strongly scumread, at least not any scumreads I haven't already gone after and want to reevaluate.

I doubt I have time to finish every ISO. :/

So either, half my townreads are shitty and thus my solve, or my townreads all townread my correct scumreads which are incredibly muddled since half the plist wanted to drag this day out for as long as possible. IE, my nightmare.

I really want people to tell me why they still want

Fuzzy's

lynch after my ISO there.

[Taly]

eyestott - T
Taly - T
Ame - T
Wiisp - null T
popsofctown - null T
Luca - null
churros - null
Paragon - null s
NDMath - s
TheFuzzylogic99 - s
Blake/Yshtola - s

I just stated why I think your bottom scumreads are town, and I am your townread, help me out here.

The world where Blake is scum with Taly makes plenty of sense admittedly

fmpov Taly isn't really scumreading any scum, only scumreads I remember from him are Paragon and me, really.

Can you please explain your

Ame

and

Paragon

townreads?

[Taly]

It would be nice if someone just told me why they disagree with my read on someone without telling me I'm scum with them, or scum so they feel justified in dismissing it.

My motivation is dropping rapidly.

[Taly]

Your Y'shtola ISO was done before the Blake reveal, which was apparently a surprise to you, and you are familiar with Blake's meta. Does that change your read?

Not much other than

Blake

is a very competent player and NOT new at all.

But even with the context that she has experience, the only thing I worry is

Fuzzy

as a sole scumread. I wonder what rationale she has for a townread and rationale she has for an uncertain read, since she hasn't verified person-by-person.

Other than that, I don't see an agenda? Aside from pocketing me, since the reveal occurred after my ISO, but right now, that's just me doubting a townread when I feel pretty directionless right now.

I get the disagreements on my ISOs but I feel pretty isolated from the plist at this point. A lot of my posts have been met with either disagreement or derision, so I'm shutting down until we actually have a flip.

My faith in my reads this D1 is not there anymore.

[Taly]

[Taly]

Time’s running out, get your votes down.

I suggest Fuzzy isn’t the right way to go; he’s the biggest wagon, others who aren’t currently voting him are also willing to and there is little resistance to this wagon.

I endorse a Math lynch.

Time to get to that ISO then...

My reads are rarely so cut and dry.

One thing I would like to point out to you is that I recently had another game where I struggled to gain concrete scumreads early on into the game. Several players immediately suspected me for this, as it gave the impression I was either not sorting the game or not putting in the effort to get to any confident scumreads.

In the hindsight of that game with knowing who the scumteam actually were, it consisted of two players that I struggle to read off their own posting, a third that was entirely absent from the game, and a fourth that I had never once played with before.

Sure, I'll humor this.

Players I've Struggled To Read at any point this dayphase: (-1)

Ame-Firebringer too, but it's historically playstyle w/ him / popsofctown / Paragon

Absent For Majority of Game: (-1)

Fuzzy / Taco-Churros too, if we're speaking in relative terms / NDMath

People I've Played With Before (To my knowledge): (+1)

Blake / Wiisp-S_S / popsofctown / Ame-Firebringer

Not In Any Group (2+-1=+1):

eyestott / Aloratom / Luca Blight

+1:

Blake / Wiisp-S_S / eyestott / Aloratom / Luca Blight

0:

Ame-Firebringer / popsofctown

-1:

Fuzzy / Churros-Taco / NDMath / Paragon

I guess the +1's and -1's impact my current reads.

Reads in Tier-list off the top of my head, no line order

Moderate Town:

Blake / eyestott / Aloratom / Luca

Weak Town:

Ame-Firebringer / Wiisp-S_S

No Confident Sort:

popsofctown

*

/ NDMath / Paragon

*

/ Fuzzy

Scum:

Churros

For a more realistic readslist and to help decision-making,

Pops/Paragon

are being moved up a tier... yay.

I read 1639 and it's what gave me the inspiration to post, tbh.

Popsofctown is a player I historically have a bad time attempting to read. It's very unlikely I will have a confident read on her without some form of outside help, whether it be from a role or interactions with other slots. I do believe her thought processes trend towards a town mindset, but I don't understand her mind well enough to confidently make that call.

eyestott, I simply don't remember anything from other than his complaining about being so townread. This could be scum, this could be town. As of right now, he's in the list of players I wouldn't mind being flipped, but otherwise I think he will be easier to sort for sure in later days.

Wiisp had a single moment I thought was town, but otherwise I had no opinion of him.

Churros and NDMath are two slots I don't believe have very high odds of being town. NDMath's recent posting has had a downturn that I wasn't seeing beforehand, which tanked the read. Churros' had Taco's ISO working against him already, but I also believe that if he is who I expect that he is, then the Taly push is a significant error by him that shows he is not town.

Pops

... same here.

eyestott

... I was speaking to him about his townreads and that there should be more critical attention to his posting. I partially forgot the source of my personal townread here and I'll need to check it, but I'd rather him not be flipped since he would be easier to sort.

What was the single moment

Wiisp

seemed town?

I guess another reason to actually ISO

NDMath

very soon...

So, what I gathered from your part about

Churros

:
- You think

Churros

is an alt and by that potential person's approach, they're likely not town for pushing me?
- What's this significant error?

The case is nonsense.

I can pick it apart if needed, but it's based on very flimsy logic, overthinking his posting, and making assumptions that aren't sound. The conclusion of a strong townread also doesn't match what he posted throughout.

Go ahead. We need to make a decision.

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

The suspicion that Taly and TheFuzzyLogic99 are aligned as scum together makes more sense to me now, but I still believe Taly is town.

who am I not scum with at this point?

Oh, and why not

Churros

as a potential person for a combo here? Did I misread your post about him?

[Taly]

let's see where this goes.

Ok I'll have fun with your post a bit Taly

I really wanted to hear Churros out, but the fact that they dismissed my POV, voted me, and is just sitting there does not feel genuine, tbh.

Yeah, as town I love to chat out with my scum reads or keep repeating the same things every page to intentionally create slogfest/spamfests in the game.

You made about 2-3 posts about voicing a scumread on this slot and most of the reasoning is associative to the vote you're placing now.

I guess when your scumbuddy

Fuzzy

is gone, your push on me will be far more justified?

Which makes sense, because if you're so confident about this slot on D1, you know how other people will flip too.

But wait, if

Fuzzy's

town, I'm still your next lynch target? I'm the only person who's reached out to you, and you're disregarding any attempt while trying to wagon me.

And yes, I do love to interact with people I scumread for better yielded sorts later in the game or upon their potential flip...

Re: Taly V Pops / Taly V Paragon

Like, if you were town, are you going to throw out a readslist within less than hours of replacing-in

I had already literally read all game and said so multiple times. I threw a readlist so fast because I had already parsed my reads before repping in. Do anyone think this was said in good-faith? Hint it wasn't, it's just Taly filling sausages on her scum read on me to be long enough and look valid.

If you read the game beforehand, you knew how you'd approach it regardless of your alignment. Your point is not credible, and scum-indicative since you use this as a basis to discredit my stance here.

vote and push to hardwagon at suspected slot late-D1, and then not contribute?

What exactly would I "contribute" here other than talking about SRs which I have. More sausage to fill a empty case.

Churros has some valid points, but gamestate, tone, and behavior all push to scum. :/

Cute.

Rude.

The problem? Town can play this way. And I really don't vibe with that.

Ah yes another "He might be town but I've a problem with his playstyle therefore it's ok"

That's literally the reason I began to SR you when you were pushing in Pops/Paragon as well. Before a wagon or flip or anything has come to fruition you're placing those lines trying to say that the burden isn't on you if you aren't correctly reading X player.

As someone that does that as scum and see other people doing it majorly as scum, that's very cute.

Never said it's OK to suspect

Luca

because of playstyle. My townread on him at that point was less confident.

And no, all of my inability to read someone is entirely on me. I just haven't found a grasp with anyone long enough to parse through those reads more confidently.

Nope. This is not my scum-play. I'm far more concrete in my points as scum.

[Taly]

I just can't be this terrible with reads this game, guys.

[Taly]

Trust me on my Churros TR for today.

I’m interested in your updated thoughts on Math.

I'll get to it when I finish a lab report, a lab quiz, and finish DND session with brother.

also if there's more than 1 scum in

{Fuzzy/NDMath/Churros}

then RIP my sanity because also if

Pops/Paragon

were just TvTs then I got interaction and read problems in about every angles of this game.

[Taly]

I just can't be this terrible with reads this game, guys.

Either you're terrible with reads, or I am, or you're mafia. Is it the third one?

No, it's not. I'd have better reads as mafia by now, or at least more of the plist would think so.

Are you mafia?

[Taly]

Pops

I'm trying to see you in a world where you're town and I don't think I'm receiving the same approach.

Most posts you have that mentions me is based on finding flaws with someone townreading me or finding reasons why I'm scum.

And you saying that I play mafia differently than you isn't solid reasoning to keep up this mentality.

I thought I was slighting you by my approach to you and I found your consistent attention to this slot - that's not overtly pushing a scumread but actually one of the few people who consistently replies to my posts - as towny.

But my fear lies in the idea that you do this to create distance, so it's easier for you to say

"Taly is probably scum w X"

without my resistance. I thought you said you didn't want to acknowledge preflip associatives

(to refute

NDMath's

inquiry to my alignment in relation to his)

but you just made a post on why I make sense as scum with

Blake

.

It feels disingenuous, and I'm not scumpainting that, I'm trying to understand why.

[Taly]

blake

, I agree with 1080 to come from town.

What do you think of my assessment of it in 1117?

Correct.

The error in that instance is that I'm aware enough of his process of gathering reads to know that his scumread of you would not be genuine.

What prevents you from joining

Churros'

lynch?

[Taly]

I'm paranoid of Blake because she's a really strong player. I'm still not entirely convinced she posted in my scum PT in apocalypse, it seems hard to believe.
To sort her correctly I want to try to pick at and guess at whether each of her reads are correct, or mistaken for reasons she genuinely believes that I can be confident she genuinely believes
For a high volume poster that becomes more important because that's the slot where her reads should trend the farthest away from rand
My last post was about Blake faking a townread on you, not about whether you're scum, it could definitely be a TMI.
I don't see why this is necessarily about you. Why is everything about you, Taly? You're getting a little myopic sometimes. Also you're no longer a cute Wooper and are only showing one eye so you are also cyclopic.

I guess I'll leave this alone, this line of thought goes directly against what I figured about your approach in 1665.

You can be town.

Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town

btw you never answer my question.

Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churros

must have

at least one

town in it, who are they?

What's your take on

NDMath

?

And what's the question you wanted answered? Repeat if it's easiest.

[Taly]

I was being ran up before the deadline was a concern which makes me think that scum is sitting on my wagon

Also why would scum push a counterwagon when I am clearly the easy lynch.

By that idea, do you think

NDMath

is being pushed by town aside from

Pops

?

(Luca Blight / Paragon / Aloratom)

[Taly]

non-game

Also you're no longer a cute Wooper and are only showing one eye so you are also cyclopic.

I found this funny XD

[Taly]

There are 12 hours left and we don't even have claims. The only other person on the Churro wagon with you is the victim of one of the leading wagons, Taly, it's looking a bit like a vanity wagon to me right now. Will you be around at deadline?

Nah, I won't be available since deadline ends for me at 6 AM tomorrow I think.

So I will have a

Math

ISO soon as I'm almost done with Chemistry work, and will probably vote there since I do agree that no lynch is horrid compared to any lynch, especially with this drawn out D1. Is

Fuzzy

the only other viable option?

I want to see what others see there as my townreads see

Math

as scum. I am a little sad since

Math

did push a townread on me, and one of few people who see my perspective on

Churros

.

[Taly]

I hope I'm not being led off a cliff, I have no other choice at this point.

[Taly]

yo, some of us aren't nocturnal

*flips table and flaps wings*

[Taly]

taly/pops

D1 Arc completed

cHaRaCtEr DeVeLoPmEnT

[Taly]

NDMath ISO

Spoiler: 519

Hi. I've played with Luca before and that's it. And he isn't here yet. I'm not surprised.

I'm tempted to role claim right now but I'll probably get yelled at for it.

Summary of thoughts from first 10 pages:
Strong tr on Tali first for townie tone than amount of contribution.
tr on EyeStott for self-consciousness. I also like #158.
tr on paragon for the initial readlists, I find myself agreeing with them.
Wisp, I don't like #102.
alordtom is very sketch in these pages.
Ame/popsc looks v/w in some order though I'd have to look at pops meta to say that confidently.

From other pages:
#253 is a bad attack from alordtom. To be town they would have to be very scared of mechanics or something.
Rabid's bw might be worse.
tfw he says it's actually a post restriction.
I want to tr paragon but he also should probably be hung.
Popc defense of paragon is weird.
Robin's point was not about town not deceiving ever, it was about this specific instance.
#340 still makes pop/paragon look w/w.
#388 by fuzzy is alarming if paragon is town.
eyestott tone is townie.
I'm thinking either paragon/pops/? or fuzzy/rabid/?
478 (the claim retract) is very bad to do paragon's earlier claim.
I want to tr Ame but don't know if I should.

Hoping that made at least some sense.
I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.

(I think this is called a p-edit but not sure), I really dislike paragon's new attack on tali, I don't see how town thinks what paragon is thinking here.

1)

This post has a lot of thoughts I had going at the time of the thread, namely on

Pops/Ame/Paragon

.

2)

I like that he's not immediately trying to rationalize why his predecessor is town, or hard-pushing a lynch, but he's also not just sitting around...

this is an opener that's far more favorable than most other replace-ins this game.

3)

Coming in with two potential solves is interesting, and I want to know how his reads of

Fuzzy/Luca

have evolved.

I would vote pops here but idk how many votes he is at.

4 Votes with

{Ame/Wisp/Taly/Eyestott}

vote order. Another would put them at L-2.

I may take a breather from the thread as well.

Gonna put my vote on paragon for now since I'm uncomfortable putting pops at L-1 at this moment.
VOTE: Paragon

I find more town-motive than scum-motive by holding off of L-1'ing here, he didn't have strong enough individual scumreads or concrete townreads to want a hammer to be possible, or a claim to be preemptively forced.

Spoiler: 565

eyestott
Aloratom
Wiisp
Yshtola Rhul
Conspire
popsofctown
Ame/Atarashi Hajimari
NDMath/Robbnva
Taly
Luca Blight/Rabid Schnauzer
Taco
TheFuzzylogic99

VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99

Can you explain why Aloratom is so high up? And conspire -- I don't recall much from them or you talking about them.

mmmmmm I'm townreading most people I don't scumread at this point so I feel like I have a pretty solid enough readslist to act off of it in good conscience.

cheers

clinkclink glunkglunk

Tempted to just follow this the next couple days.

NDMath

not knowing much about

Conspire

and wanting to hear a reason on why a slot he suspects is town

(Aloratom)

feels pretty sensible.

Other than that, I can see the buddying that was mentioned about

NDMath

, but I've consistently had little impact on this game wagon-wise, for scum to buddy me it makes most sense if I were mislynchbait.... but if anything, that's backfired given the current EoD1 wagons.

Plus, I felt pretty confident when I made the post that I did, too.

@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.

Does that mean you'll feel sad that you didn't understand me when I flip green, Ame?

I'm townreading Paragon. I figured out another one of his alts and am disappointed there are not as many separate wonderful people in existence as I previously thought but also by meta I think it gives me additional reason to be townreading him.
I share his frustration that preflip assoc reads are stupid, there is probably inherent validity to a gamestate read that Paragon is probably aligned with me, and people are just errantly presuming that it's S/S. Like I actually don't care way too much about getting mislynched here, I was starting to miss my day1 mislynch meta and I think there will be lots to read from the debris, but confbiasing into preflip assocs squanders the reads you can develop using this dayphase. Preflip assocs are inherently bad play because player's reads are actually very close to rand but psychologically they tend to feel more confident than that.
Taco seems kind of townish to me. Maybe, like on tone?
NDMath's catchup seemed scummy to me, though I'm not sure that's accurate omgus. Would like to see more from the slot.
Y'shtola's passivity is at a critical mass. I am not sure how it would ever be possible to townread her the way she's playing.

The further into this post I read the more I disliked it.

I disagree with Luca's argument about Rabid but I see no point in arguing it.

He's consistent by the way he desires to play.
I wish there was more elaboration on

Pops'

post or

Luca's

argument about

Rabid

here.

How’ve I deviated from my town meta?

You have the most accurate scum reads of anyone I've played with so far on this site. Fuzzy is such a bad and opportunistic push. Although you did do the same thing with Aaron. I guess I have you in the BoP category in my mind so it pings me when you're pushing in the wrong direction.

This seems like a slip to me. There is nothing to suggest Fuzzy is Town, so why does Ame so firmly believe I’m pushing in the wrong direction? Ame had Fuzzy in her second bottom pile earlier and has since not updated her read. This stance makes no sense from town.

Opportunistic is a key word there.

The fifth time of rereading Ame's post I finally figured out what your point was. I agree now it doesn't make sense.

I actually found

Ame's

stance a bit off here too but I didn't think to push it as I felt she was town overall.

I don't see the point of

NDMath's

interjection here, though.

Spoiler: 767

He’s got a gimmick. I normally hate gimmicks but this one isn’t annoying

Implied a recruiting ability in 46
Hinted at an investigative in 70
Hinted at Miller in 73
Macho Cop 93
Roleblocker 156
145 in retrospect was Paragon talking to himself and not being clear about asking Wiisp a question
164 was a disingenuous question to me when it could have been cleared up by just saying a mistake was made
197 claims to have a question quota role in a normal game
And 38 is still a scummy post

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the L-1 test, but it all adds up to scummy behavior to me.

VOTE: Paragon

NDMath, could you explain what you found bad about this attack on me? I don't think it implies Aloratom is scared of mechanics like you mentioned, it looks more like Aloratom is suspicious of me for fake-crumbing/causing confusion as scum.

Additionally, do you mind explaining what you found weird about popsofctown's defense of me? You were also townreading me at the time of writing that.

VOTE: NDMath to show respect.

How is that confusing, it's clearly just a play style thing which is easy to ignore? And its really not take-crumbing, more so openly softing. Like a vt doesn't care what anyone's roles is until they hard claim. (When I said that I didn't realize you were claiming the question quota as part of your role.) Then there is no explanation of what about this case is different which makes you scummy. Overall the attack is just a bunch of "he did this" and "he did that" with no justification for why this or that is scummy.
It looked like pops was trying to save you by also claiming a post restriction and then he awkwardly retracted it.
Now I'm more so scumreading you on your reaction to people pushing you for being confusing, and your Tali push. For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

And I think each of my posts the past few pages have fallen on deaf ears aside from

Pops/Alo/Ame

, and I scumread one.

I'm listening. I just agree too much to say anything on them.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this exchange.

I don't follow why

Paragon

cared about roles/crumbing in the first place, or why

Aloratom's

push had validity in his eyes since they were mechanics based like

NDMath

said, and that can be interpreted as scum-indicative since there's no reason to care so much about crumbing/roles at this stage of the game.

But

Paragon

gave

Aloratom

the benefit of the doubt when

NDMath

didn't.

I don't know, it took me 10 minutes to wrap a coherent thought over this.

NDMath

vibing with me but not doing much more.

Spoiler: 828

For the former, you've just continued not concerned your causing problems for other people trying to understand what's happening. For the latter, the attack seems omgus, is quoting a bunch of posts and calling them scummy without explanation, and I can't follow why townyou is finding Tali scummy.

The former:

I've explained and addressed things here. Do you think I was intentionally causing confusion as scum in the hopes to derail discussion? Do you think the negative attention would not offset me from doing that as scum?

The latter:

Taly recently asked to townbloc with me. I posts I've quoted all have a similar theme, in that I read them as

faked

- for lack of a better word. Others don't seem to see what I'm seeing though, so I'll drop that line of reasoning and try not to consider it in my read of Taly.

I'm not scumreading you by what scum you likely does. It's about what town you would never do. As town if you notice your causing confusion surely you react better. Both alignments care about not receiving negative attention, so I don't see the validity of that point.
The town bloc thing was definitely a joke.

@

Tom:

I can understand your PoV a bit better now. Ngl, I was impressed by your play in that other game and have been disappointed by what I’ve seen from you so far. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you’re still working your way into the game.

UNVOTE:

I don’t think Paragon is a good lynch for today, so maybe you can try and work with me on someone else? How are you feeling about the Rob/Math slot?

The way Luca talks about me here makes me uncomfortable.

@

Tom:

I can understand your PoV a bit better now. Ngl, I was impressed by your play in that other game and have been disappointed by what I’ve seen from you so far. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you’re still working your way into the game.

UNVOTE:

I don’t think Paragon is a good lynch for today, so maybe you can try and work with me on someone else? How are you feeling about the Rob/Math slot?

I don't think anything that Robb did was particularly AI. He moved his vote a few places, settling on Pops. Ame's not wrong when she says that once Robb gets locked, he'll death tunnel. He'll even admit that. I have a feeling he was headed in that direction, and I give him credit for dropping the game when he did.

Anyway, NDMath's entry post 519 was somewhat odd in the sense that it looks like he put work into it, but it could have been written better and more thought could have been gone into it.

I was trying to get something posted with my thoughts on the game so far.

Not giving links to posts makes it difficult to follow trains of thought.

I didn't realize that I should be.

He didn't understand my push on Paragon obviously; I'm not sure what he means by me being scared of mechanics. He gives several other surface reads with no basis, and then gives a couple of possible scum trios: paragon/pops/? or fuzzy/rabid/?, but no reasoning behind them.

NDMath was taken in by the Paragon's Conspire con in 565, so I can understand some overall confusion there. And he makes a big push on Paragon in 767 that I'm not sure I completely get.

Perhaps the most striking thing I see is in NDMath's 519 entry post he was Town reading Paragon, and then in 565 he voted Paragon with no explanation other than "Gonna put my vote on paragon for now since I'm uncomfortable putting pops at L-1 at this moment." Those posts are timestamped about 10 hours apart. That's seems odd.

The read started to change in the middle of post 519, I kind of regret formatting the post that way but I wanted to give background to my initial thoughts. The initial townread was probably biased by play style, but I disliked the way he had handled people being frustrated with his post restriction claim, then the paragon/pops interaction was scummy.

I guess I can see a scum lean here, but I don't know that I'm ready to lynch the slot for being scummy yet. Actually, I'm a bit surprised you want to go after NDMath after your bit about it being easy for scum to get away with tunneling in this situation after their replacing out.

Do you want to lynch this slot because you find it scummy or for analysis?

Wisp, I don't like #102.

Why?

Is "I don't remember and no longer think so." a bad answer?

478 (the claim retract) is very bad to do paragon's earlier claim.

Can you elaborate on this. There's no retraction in 478.

Oops. Point was more so that there was an awkward claim and retraction made worse by paragons earlier claim. It's bad in that if a townie wants to defend someone, they don't just make stuff up similar to what the person they're defending made up and try to then justify the behavior that way.

I want to tr Ame but don't know if I should.

Why?

I have found you townie, but some players null behavior is naturally townie and it seems like you probably fall in that group.

Then you followed by wiisp.

Where did you begin to town read Wisp?

I liked #527 a lot, as well as I got confused due to being overwhelmed by playerlist and thought I was also already slightly townreading the slot.

It looked like pops was trying to save you by also claiming a post restriction and then he awkwardly retracted it.

You honestly believe a scum mate would defend their partner's fake restriction by also claiming a fake restriction? In a normal game? This is just silly and I'm not buying it from either you or Taly.

I had thought it seemed like a panic thing. The interaction surrounding it also seemed w/w.

1)

In a world that

Wiisp

wasn't discussed or townread much, I liked that

NDMath

freely spoke on the read.

2)

NDMath

has a lot of opinions similar to me and I can't quite see how they're forced when he doesn't have them based around my interaction with him. The post restriction claims, and

Paragon

not being transparent with the thread.

3)

He was correct about my townbloc joke to

Paragon

; I don't think scum trying to buddy me would look into my posting that much.

4)

He isn't trying to force a read with

Ame

either, it's simple like with

Wiisp

but it doesn't feel agenda-based. More like he's genuinely not feeling it since he's keeping up communication.

Spoiler: 1106

Towniest

Taly

eyestott

- I liked the point Taly made of a slot being too townread is bad, but I think it is fine with consideration to why they are so heavily townread.

Wiisp

- I just find myself liking his posts despite not always agreeing with it. I also see him as scum being more proactive right now. Like I don't see post 717 as scum since his position is something rather easy for mafia to utilize effectively to gain an advantage later.

Aloratom

- There was something they did that make me think "I suppose that makes up for there scummy early days. I should put them up here." Now that I'm filling in reasons I have no recollection of what that was.

Ame

- Has a very townie tone, especially now when the awkward phrasing Luca pointed out is clearly how they always talk. I would need to look at some meta before I would be willing to move them higher, though I don't see the need right now.

Taco

- When he is here the tone of his posts are slightly townie.

Luca Blight

- Whenever he says my name I get uncomfortable. I am now jotting that to paranoia of him forcing a hang on me again. I'm finding him slightly townie now because he isn't as aggressive as he I recall being in his scum game with me.

TheFuzzylogic99

- I don't have much to read off of other than most of the other people I scumread have been pushing him, so it doesn't really make sense for him to be scum. I would reconsider if someone else flips counter to what I was expecting.

Yshtola Rhul

- I can understand what they're saying but I've got no clue how to determine alignment out of it. They fit best here.

popsofctown

- This is primarily from what others are saying ngl.

Paragon

- My play style as scum is matching up with how he's playing. More specifically the reason why some things I do as scum but not as town are the things I'm nothing him doing. In addition as said earlier I really dislike his Taly attack.
Scummiest

I'll explain Tali read tomorrow with longer explanation than this stuff. I'm gonna sleep now.
I might have forgotten about something someone @'d at me.

Consistent reads, mostly. I think it's odd that he places

Alo

higher without trying to remember what was so impactful about the read.

I also don't feel that

NDMath-Fuzzy

is S-S, mostly because this is a similar mindset I had when towncasing

Fuzzy

, I felt the people pursuing him were likelier scum based off my read at the time.

NDMath's

paranoia feels justified given

Luca's

recent interaction with him, I guess they've played together before?

He doesn't force scumreads as everybody above the bottom 3 had a variation of a townread, it seemed like a realistic call and his progression with

Wiisp

reassures me since

Wiisp

had no reason to openly voice an idea to be lazy and focusing more D2. I would've liked more voice on the

Eyestott

townread, especially since he agreed with my point.

To do list:
1. Explain why I'm so sure Tali is town.
2. Convince Luca Blight I'm town.
3. Convince Wiisp it's possible for me to be sure he's town.

Hopefully I get at least some of that (the first one) done in the next couple hours.

Also if Churros is scum Luca is town and if Churros is town Luca is also town.

So

Luca

went from weak town to very likely town when

Churros

started coming into the thread? Not sure if I follow.

Spoiler: 1289

@Maths why is your play so different from your other two games?

Neither of those 2 games went well for me. So I'm having the conflict of wanting to do stuff different but not really knowing what and I haven't put in enough effort to effectively change stuff.
Part of it is fear to act the same way but I don't know what I'm supposed to do different/better.

I'm not gonna have stuff linked because I'm struggling with that and it's gonna slow me down way too much. I'm probably doing something inefficient and not knowing it.

Iso starting at #24 since that's around the point I started to really townread Taly beyond contribution.

#24 Although it is speculative the asking for clarification comes from town more.

#25 I understand the thought process behind and said it myself later.

#29 Nice wallpost. The robb paragraph specifically has good reasoning that I question How much of gets said by scum. The readlist is convincing in a much stronger form than just "I guess it is.".

#33 His reaction to pops saying he made eyestott an ic is a very townie reaction.

#35 Just how actively he is engaged in the thread. And his later frustration is too well placed to be fake imo.

#36 His hangpool is solid and I understand exactly how he got to all of it.

#38 Is a frustration post that is... I don't know how to explain it but that post specifically has several thoughts that I think are very townie.

#39 I like his paragon pressure.

#44 I guess I don't see what situation a scum would dare say something like this day 1.

#46 Explains my dislike of paragon/pops interaction better than I could. Though I think paragon is worse of the two.

#49 Makes good points about hanging active posters and harder to believe genuineness in some of pop's and paragon's pushes.

#53 felt townie given paragon's push of just quoting a ton of posts and labeling them scummy.

More coming SoonTM.
If I'm hanged before than I'm strongly thinking Paragon/Cherro/Pops.

I don't think I've ever seen scum try to towncase me if they want to pocket or buddy me.

A lot of thoughts on a lot of my posts, it's hard to say that this is a fake narrative. He also doesn't refine his post formatting and I almost want to townread that even though it should be NAI, I figured a case from scum would've been more polished and with less justification across all my posting.

There's no

"Taly is just town!

or

"Taly may not if...

and you can follow it.

The more I put off contributing to this game the harder it becomes.

Same. Exact feeling I felt at the time.

@Pops

To be fair I didn't think much of NDmath slot until mostly the read list thing, but my mind was on Taly/Fuzzy way early and that post didn't make me want to switch main focus.

By suspicious do you mean you're suspicious I'm like, trying to distract from the NDmath wagon or something?

I know this is super self-conscious but I do think the chance of NDmath flipping scum is decent and I'm actually gonna be disappointed if I get tied to him because I'm pursuing Taly right now.

Especially given that by my read list it's not difficult to see one of my solves would be something like [Fuzzy/Taly/Math]. At the moment I don't want to risk going for what I see a lower odd/reward lynch though...

If it's for another reason you don't trust me it's ok. kinda?

Can you explain how that is "super self-conscious" since I don't follow.

Yeah, I really want to know this, too.

Can you explain your reads a bit more?

Particularly your scumreads and your progression on Tom.

He's the type of player I struggle to play with, as in end up scunreading each other and disagree with principles. I wasn't posting thoughts related to this, but the town read grew as I realized this was the case. They also had a string of posts which were another big change in the read, which now I really need to find. Also when I scumread paragon more they had moved closer to null because the two don't really work as w/w.

[/quote]

My biggest gripe so far is that

NDMath

gives you his opinions but doesn't digress on whether it's town-motive or scum-motive, he makes statements that he likes or dislikes, so you have to draw the connections on his read progressions a bit. I can see the suspicion there.

I also find Math’s lack of development on Paragon scum indicative. The fact Paragon is at the bottom of his pile justifies his sitting on a vanity wagon without seeming too opportunistic of the more lynchable slot. At the same time he is scumleaning those lynchable slots, meaning he can ‘compromise’ on them at any time without being held accountable for their green flip (because he wanted a Paragon lynch).

And the reasons for SR’ing Paragon are really bad. There is clearly at least a possible (imo probable) Town motive behind Paragon’s questioning/suspicion of Taly, and his other reason is entirely vague, which we’ll see if he can elaborate on.

He wasn't a vanity wagon when I had joined it. Now wagons are me/fuzzy/pops, I don't really want to switch to fuzzy by interactions, and pops is only at 2 so I can hold out for paragon wagon to come back for a bit longer.
Define "lynchable slot" because I think that fits more players than not under the definition you're using.
I'm struggling with expressing reads in a convincing form. (Guess that's an excuse oops)

First post of his I had a knee-jerk reaction against. I don't vibe with his insistence of vote-parking without at least trying to convince others of his reads, but at least he's self-aware he's not too confident here.

Going to just post this before it somehow gets erased and I have a breakdown; part 2 here we go.

But right now, I feel like I've slept on critically evaluating

NDMath

here and I'm not all for

Churros/Luca

saying he's scum around this point of the ISO?

I'll reserve judgment until I finish.

[Taly]

NDMath ISO Pt. 2

Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?

In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.

I really don't get how you think we look w/w?

I mean, yeah, I liked

NDMath's

earlier posts a bit more but hearing this from Clocked-

Churros

? Meh.

I haven't really seen justification for

NDMath-Taly

S-S either?

We're doing a VERY SHITTY job as scum if we were S-S.

I really want to hear more about your Paragon SR.

In the last several pages he has been just trying to hold a storyline together, putting an "I agree with this" or "Glad someone understands" whenever someone posts something which matches his storyline. That is not how a townie plays. He's become a spectator merely cheering on people who are saying what he wants them to, not saying anything of his own besides reasonless readlists.

The readlists aren't helpful and push for anything.

The fact that nobody else has caught or echo'ed this makes me feel like it comes from scum much less, especially considering that

NDMath

is rivaling 2 other wagons here.

Pops would you be up to changing votes to Taly?

In fact I don't feel good asking people to change from NDmath because the more he posts the scummier he looks, and if he flips scum everyone is gonna be on my ass, but I'm tickling to get a wagon on Taly.

I really don't get how you think we look w/w?

I've better reasons to think most other slots are town?

There's another reason as well but if Taly really is scum I've no intention of helping them out.

You answered my question with a question which does not address my question.
To clarify, I'm asking why you think the two of us look like scum teammates.

Yeah,

NDMath's

posting might be weird here:
If he weren't wagoned.
If he didn't strongly townread me.

But neither of that applies here, seems like he's trying to get a handle on a gamestate that's taking whatever he says as scum.

Spoiler: 1524

@Pops

To be fair I didn't think much of NDmath slot until mostly the read list thing, but my mind was on Taly/Fuzzy way early and that post didn't make me want to switch main focus.

By suspicious do you mean you're suspicious I'm like, trying to distract from the NDmath wagon or something?

I know this is super self-conscious but I do think the chance of NDmath flipping scum is decent and I'm actually gonna be disappointed if I get tied to him because I'm pursuing Taly right now.

Especially given that by my read list it's not difficult to see one of my solves would be something like [Fuzzy/Taly/Math]. At the moment I don't want to risk going for what I see a lower odd/reward lynch though...

If it's for another reason you don't trust me it's ok. kinda?

Can you explain how that is "super self-conscious" since I don't follow.

Can you explain your reads a bit more?

Particularly your scumreads and your progression on Tom.

He's the type of player I struggle to play with, as in end up scunreading each other and disagree with principles. I wasn't posting thoughts related to this, but the town read grew as I realized this was the case. They also had a string of posts which were another big change in the read, which now I really need to find. Also when I scumread paragon more they had moved closer to null because the two don't really work as w/w.

Can I ask what you mean by disagree with principles?

Disagree on basic stuff like "what is protown?", "what is inherently scummy?", "when is wifom used?" and similar stuff which apply to all games and many situations in those games.

He's listing all the easier reasons you could push someone as scum for as one's he doesn't want to use to read someone.

I know a while ago someone said asked something to taly about me trying to buddy them. I'm not finding it.

To address it though, as town I almost every game try to buddy with someone. It usually doesn't happen but I generally still try. I do this because it makes me more comfortable discussing specifically with and trusting someone who trusts me, and removes some stress of people being unpredictable when I really only got to watch one person's opinion of my towniness/scumminess.
The players I do end up buddying with, in the past at least, line up rather well with the players I am most scared of reading me when I'm mafia.

The fact that

NDMath

is outlining his perspective here instead of giving a game-specific reason strikes me as genuine.

But I am concerned a bit on why he's worried of my read on him the most, since I think his buddying explanation implies he is hesitant about a player's read on them. That is a bit worrying.

@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?

Things that were asked more than once by more than one person to more than one person, but never answered.

What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?

I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.

Blegh, the

Paragon

read feels weak based off of this, I at least want to hear out what the one similarity is.

NDmath is continually and ostentatiously not town btw. Churros can we lynch Math and go from there? Please

@pops If I flip scum what does that say about Taly? What if I flip town, what does that say about Taly?

Don't know, don't care.
Don't know, don't care.
You preflip assoc people will never take me alive.

Churros was pushing Taly, then you tell him to hang me first and go from there. As a general principle, I think either way I flip should have some effect on the willingness of pursuing Taly, but when asked you provide no thoughts -- not even to which way makes Taly look worse, which suggests that you are not serious when you tell Churros you will go from my flip to decide if Taly should be hung. That's not something you should be doing as town.
Now is good a time as any to join a wagon I suppose.
VOTE: popsofctown

I thought the vote was justified. If I'm being scumread by

Churros

who scumreads

NDMath

as an associative to me (someone who townreads me) - and

Pops

tells

Churros

that

NDMath

is the better lynch - but

Pops

has no specifically stated read on me - I'd want to push why.

Now, I'm thinking

Pops

has this perspective based on just townreading

Churros

and feeling less confident that I'm scum - or wanted to sort

NDMath

better, but this wasn't elaborated at this point in time.

I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".

Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.
UNVOTE: popsofctown

And I think

Pops'

reply and

NDMath's

unvoted made sense.

Pops

brings a valid point about not even focusing so hard on preflip associatives as

Churros

did and

NDMath's

unvoted gained him nothing in terms of pursuing a lynch outside of himself as scum. It seemed genuine.

Spoiler: 1598

Lets make this a wagon. VOTE: Churros
Though I will switch to Fuzzy if it is needed.

Disagree on basic stuff like "what is protown?", "what is inherently scummy?", "when is wifom used?" and similar stuff which apply to all games and many situations in those games.

How would that change your read of me this game? Actually, how would you determine that to begin with? I don't think we've played together before have we?

That changed my read of you from scumlean to null, because I realized I was scumreading you for things I shouldn't be scumreading you for. I determined it from primarily 570, 772 (specifically the part on jargon), and 777. In addition to a couple posts I had initially scumread you for.
I found myself disagreeing with some of your thoughts/actions which weren't opinions, and when that happens repeatedly it's generally not because of alignment.

@Luca, I'm not used to iso'ing so forgot that I had the ability to, but the string of townie posts from Tom I was referring to were on page 32 starting with 777.
What I really like about these posts is the confidence in their own play style when it's not being attacked. I don't see mafia defending why their play style is good when it's not being attacked or questioned, as that limits their options later.

I want to know what changed with

Fuzzy

being a potential vote.

Churros

vote is most expected with his previous posting.

The

Alo

reasoning is solid since I don't think scum would look back at earlier posts so deeply, and in the context of verifying a stance on the slot that's town-indicative. This faith in gamesolving and reading another player feels town-indicative, and it's not a sharp change in direction from his earlier posting about

Alo

.

What did you mean when you said he’s doing what you normally do as scum?

I saw this and it's gonna get answered but only once when I think of more than one descriptable similarities.

I don’t like this stalling, especially considering he still hasn’t answered it.

Math’s reasoning for Paragon being his main SR was that Paragon is doing a lot of things that Math does as scum. When I ask him to expland on this he takes forever to answer, and finally gives an answer in 1507 in which he says paragon has been agreeing with a lot of stuff recently. This strikes me as scummy reasoning for a couple of reasons:

1) it ignores Paragon’s play as a whole, which is far from what Math is portraying it as here

2) it neglects to mention anything pertaining to Math’s original reasoning, which is was I asked him to explain.

I had to ask again to clarify what he meant in his original reasoning and he made the stalling post above. It’s as though he’s been caught making shit up and so tried to find something else he could throw at Paragon in its place.

What is your experience with

NDMath

?

NDMath

was is your experience with

Luca

?

I am confident nomnomnom will not delete yours, Churros', or Taly's posts when Day 1 ends. Postflip analysis is far more effective and time efficient than preflip analysis. There is no contradiction between "I refuse to do this now" and "I will do this later". Doing it now only stirs up the sorts of confirmation biases that make getting the first redflip of the game more difficult, and that's more important than a "head start".

Ack I'm still not as convinced of this as I feel I should be right now.
UNVOTE: popsofctown

Not convinced, so why unvote and wagon Churros instead?

His Churros vote seems really random after his previous views on that slot. The way he states he is willing to compromise on Fuzzy also seems scummy - it’s as though he knows his current vote is vanity and unlikely to go anywhere (especially as Math has literally no reasoning behind his vote) but knows it will be less opportunistic looking than going straight for someone like Fuzzy.

Weird as well how Math is seemingly sheeping Taly’s view on Churros, but not his view on Fuzzy. Any reason for this?

And I don’t get why he’s suddenly given up on pursuing Pops.

-"You're scummy for moving your vote to a vanity wagon."
-"Suspicious how you're not strongly townreading the only nonvanity wagon besides yourself."

I disagree with the points

Luca

make here.

1)

Unlike

NDMath

in an earlier post, I scumread

Churros

regardless of your alignment,

Luca

.

2)

My thoughts on his above posts make

NDMath's

vote on

Churros

not random.

Welp
VOTE: TheFuzzyLogic99

You think if I make a completely disingenuous case against him it will increase my survival chances?

I don't follow your read on

Fuzzy

, tbh. You say he's a decent vote but also say that a case on him is disingenuous?

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

This player pool is really weak in that none of the players have taken too much of a stance (S_S and eyestott) or are comparatively inactive (me and fuzzy). I don't follow how you think all the 'loud' players can be town.

Important note for later this game.

Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town

btw you never answer my question.

Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churros

must have

at least one

town in it, who are they?

What's your take on

NDMath

?

I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.
I still think wiisp-S_S is town but I'm less confident on the read with how little S_S has done.

Ultimately, I'm sorry that I'm not convinced

NDMath

is scum?

[Taly]

I want to solve

NDMath

more. Didn't follow

Churros/Luca

reasons for suspicion.

I don't like either lynch, but

NDMath

>

Fuzzy

content-wise.

VOTE: Fuzzy

This is L-1. Please wait for claim.

p-edit

So are you gonna vote FuzzyLogic?

omg

pops

I was hugging my parents goodnight 1v1 me

[Taly]

What deters you from

Fuzzy

lynch?

And if

Math

is hear I want an explanation of

Paragon

read, too.

Taly is like Ender from the book, if he understands his enemy too much he understands its mind and sympathizes too much and then doesn't want to kill it.

How can we destroy your empathy so you can scumread people Taly?

Idk, nobody is overtly stupid or fucking insane this game, so it's hard to stick on scumreads when there's WAAAAAY too much content with no concrete information.

But otherwise, accurate personality assessment.

[Taly]

You could lolhammer Fuzzy right now Luca
la poder esta en tus manos
you could seize the vengaza you crave and rob me of a careful d1 the way I so cruelly wrested one from you

I know you said

Fuzzy

is scum so that read has stuck? What about

NDMath

now?

Gamestate-wise it doesn’t make sense that scum wouldn’t jump on Math after my case against him if Fuzzy is scum and Math Town.

It’s possible they might be partners, but I much prefer a Math lynch.

Hmmm.... I wonder what

Blake

and

Churros

think of this.

[Taly]

Let's cry together.

[Taly]

I don't think

NDMath's

vote/push on

Churros

was random or odd.

And I don't think he's sheeped my reads as he hasn't been interacting with me or focusing on my line of reasonings to come to his conclusions.

And I am not too confident that

Paragon

is town, so I don't follow his read there or the read on

Fuzzy

since his progression feels a bit inconsistent, but I don't know if there's any other major point you've mentioned that leads to your scumread.

I really want to hear your experience with him and how that deviates from what you expect as town from him.

[Taly]

I would self-lynch if

Churros/Blake

was a team, FUCK ME.

[Taly]

Checking in early than expect.

It seems Fuzzy is at L-1, unless he claims something out of this world I don't see why not hammer with so little of the dead line left.

By the way Taly saying "I don't like either lynch" putting Fuzzy on L-1 probably means they aren't partners, so if one flips scum the other one is...probably town. I don't see scum!Taly acting so openly reluctant to vote buddy!Fuzzy and saying hinting she's doing it out of compromise.

That would be great scum play in hindsight because it doesn't look like a bus but I find it unlikely to be in Taly's scum range.

HAVE YOU PLAYED WITH ME BEFORE.

THIS IS TOO ACCURATE HELP.

[Taly]

Do you frequently view actions you didn't take as outside of your scumrange Taly?

Generally, yes. My town-range engulfs my scum-range and goes wider.

Blake

has the most experience with me compared to anyone on the site, at least this game.

She was correct in saying that there's more variability in tone and behavior while attaching a townread to that.

I'm a more consistent player as scum than town. It's easier for me to predict - myself - what I would do as scum.

[Taly]

What makes you say so?

[Taly]

Oh, my scum winrate is higher than my town, not that I keep track anymore.

I've pulled a flawless scum victory and won my second mafia game ever as an SK.

I scare some people as scum.

I piss more off as town, haha.

p-edit

Taly, you should think about reading Churros and Blake based on the genuineness and the insightfulness of their insights, and not on whether their ultimate conclusion townlocks you and makes you feel good.

food for thought

I don't feel particularly insightful about you in general

Yeah, I'm going to think through that lens more.

[Taly]

ugh, just save me for D2 man.

[Taly]

hopefully I bite an NK soon to save me from this shit, lord knows scum should.

[Taly]

Why your natural reaction here is:

1) Instantly assuming I'm partners with Fuzzy when I've like, been one of the pioneers in pushing the slot
2) Hard assuming Fuzzy will flip scum when you said you don't like the lynch

I was one of the first people to bring

Fuzzy

in a lynchpool, that's a lot of credit you give yourself.

Your PoE is wrong since my name is in it. I'm not fine with either a Math or Fuzzy lynch, so either you have a poor solve as town, you're scum finding associative and non-associative reasons to lynch me and town, or I have a poor solve and I'm wrong about Math and/or Fuzzy and scumflips there dignify your push against a town slot (me), or we both have poor solves and we're T-T.

And did I assume

Fuzzy

will flip scum? Or said I even scumread him here?

I guess when your scumbuddy Fuzzy is gone, your push on me will be far more justified?

It's a question for a reason. Guess I struck a nerve.

My stance on

Fuzzy

is no different than when I casted the vote on him.

Buzz somewhat killed. Night.

[Taly]

Night 1 Result

popsofctown

has died last night. She was:

Spoiler:

Welcome! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have your voice and your vote but no special abilities.
You win when the Mafia have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Luca Blight

has died last night. He was:

Spoiler:

Welcome! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have your voice and your vote but no special abilities.
You win when the Mafia have been removed or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Lovely. The two people I had almost conclusively as town from EoD1 conversations.

Good morning.

I think there's very low odds I don't support an NDMath lynch today, but I will still do my due diligence and look into the game further regardless.

I made 2 wallposts towncasing

NDMath

EoD1 and you haven't batted an eyelash to it.

I also towncased

Fuzzy

, and I wanted you to critique it because you said it had very poor logic, you never did.

Nothing about your stance here is genuine.

If I had to sum up my thoughts as of right now, I don't believe I am significantly wrong in my reads, still.

There are some things I wish to go over still, but the scum in this game are likely to be those predominantly in the background of the game. This indicates Something_Smart, Aloratom, NDMath, and eyestott. I suspect two scum are in this list, minimum, at this point in time.

Of the rest, I believe Churros is the most likely to be scum.

OK, walk me through

Churros

in full, my thought process, I'll even use

Pops'

post as a basis:

Taly, you should think about reading Churros and Blake based on the genuineness and the insightfulness of their insights, and not on whether their ultimate conclusion townlocks you and makes you feel good.

food for thought

I don't feel particularly insightful about you in general

I disagreed completely that

Churros

was genuine because:

1)

He had a D1 PoE pool... this is either, never fully correct in my experience, or always accompanied with a scum agenda. Even if it's town, scum use pool's like that much in the way of why you're willing to lynch

NDMath

, despite reading

Churros

as most likely scum.

2)

Churros

insisted his reads were before coming into this game - so it's impossible validate his thought process as NAI, at best, it's town grossly pushing their confident reads, at worst, it's scum hiding a narrative.

3)

Town should never ignore a scumread via hard-tunneling. I know town unfortunately gamethrow by doing this, but ignoring scumreads ping about 5 red flags at once and I can write an entire dissertation why, I've seen scum do it more.

Churros'

attitude toward his read of me did not read genuine, until-

That said, here is why I think

Churros

could be genuine with me.

Churros

believed I partner slipped 172 and 173, he had 0 reason to spew half the shit he did EoD1 if he knew

Fuzzy/I

were town, especially

Fuzzy

getting flipped.

He had no leverage for a mislynch with that statement.
He had no town credit especially, as his push on

Fuzzy

could put him into scrutiny.
He had nothing to gain from this assessment unless he borderline-insanely kept his tunnel on me the following day.

His hesitation to vote me now and evaluate other players is breaking from the scum narrative I saw him in.

So tell me, what makes this slot remain as scum to you

Blake

?

I want a genuine answer, same for

NDMath

. Because you only had

Fuzzy

as a solve, nobody backed up my towncase, he flipped town.

When Taly supposedly slipped Fuzzy as partner I was really confident on my [Taly, Fuzzy, Math] solve. My experience says I should still aim to lynch Taly because it's unlikely I was wrong on both given my recent SRs accuracy, but...today I want to talk?

I

I want to talk too,

pops/Luca

EoD1 were giving advice about either their game or of another player (the quote I linked of

pops

above and

Luca

giving meta prior to hammer) and I think there's credibility there.

Can you give a townread, of any degree or confidence?

Because Y'shtola is functionally only a troll account after being outed.

I switched because she was outed. Would you like me to link where I outed her?

This post answered exactly 0 of

Churros'

assertions about your reads.

If I weren't waiting for the rest of the plist to chip in, I'd be putting you to

L-2

right now.

Fuck. Two Nightkills? I can't remember being in a double elimination night before.
Under normal rules, there cant be two anti-town NKs without significant shenanigans, right? Like, is a Vigilante the only explanation?

Is this really all you have to say?

VOTE: Eyestott

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

But I missed all of the attention.

Don't go to long

<3

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

1 1-shot vig
9 vt
2 mafia goons

I'm tempted to try to work with this assumption for a bit.

Not crazy about setup spec, either.

Did you read my towncase on you? What is a townread you have right now, at any degree?

Also, just like

eyestott

, this is all of you have to say, too?

p-edit

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

VOTE: NDMath

This post is not town.

For a person townreading me, you should start trying to mind-meld with me more.

[Taly]

fuck this slow ass internet

trying to post the above was ungodly

p-edit

Rest in peace, friends.

VOTE: NDMath

Same reasons as yesterday. Plus, why does Blake being more confident on Fuzzy flipping scum than others make her more likely to be scum? Also, do you think 2 mafia, 9 VT, and a one-shot vig is a balanced or fun setup?

Pedit: A Taly wall!

Oh, a wild

Paragon

has popped up!

Paragon

, spew a townread at any degree of confidence?

What makes you think

Blake

isn't more likely - or perhaps, even less likely scum (if you think this) because of her confidence in pushing

Fuzzy

?

[Taly]

Churros believed I partner slipped 172 and 173,

MF

1772 and 1773

[Taly]

I call upon the many transformations of the Tiger Clan to aid me.



May my toucan brothers and sisters give me strength!

Endow me with your glory and power!

oh, and a random anime girl help me.



I'm legit mad. I wanted more time with

Pops/Luca

I figured them out waaaay too late.

[Taly]

fuck this slow ass internet

trying to post the above was ungodly

It's not you, it's the site.

It's going to take more than that to avoid my beak today,

S_S

Spew or eat rope. Give a townread of any degree of confidence OR tell me which of

{Eyestott, NDMath, and Blake}

should be pushed to L-3 or L-2 right now.

Is mafiascum unbearingly slow right now or am I just slow?

I'm not sure, Taly. It could work either way, but I dislike NDMath using it as a blanket reason reason to scumread her without any further reasoning or why that makes her scum, when town can be confidently wrong about reads too.

I've missed a lot, I'm gonna be reISOing people and forming another readslist hopefully later today if the site isn't broken. Based on this page and what I remember from end of day 1, I townread Blake for the reasoning behind her reads

If you think they're genuine reads from

Blake

, can you explain a bit more why you think so?

And what about this page rings as towny of her?

[Taly]

Is this really all you have to say?

VOTE: Eyestott

No Taly, it’s not. Look at the post previous to your own. I’m still trying to sort out Churros and Blake because functionally they’re both very new players to this game. I was following your reasoning up until your vote on me but this has left me confused (and exhilarated! Finally, I’ve lost my voteginity hahaha). Are you voting me to get me to contribute?
I’m feeling a bit defeated right now, considering how shit of a night we just had. Where’s the best place for me to put my effort so I can contribute more?

Wonderful. I'll be waiting for your in-depth thoughts on

Churros/Blake

as they're a pair I cannot put off sorting here.

Good that you feel exhilarated, that's much better than getting upset over the night. I felt like shit for 2 seconds, but then that all burned into vindication.

Can you give me a townread at any degree of confidence?

The best place you can put effort is me, or anybody else who has a vote, or anyone else... I don't have enough opinions of your posts and that worries me. I think you could be scum riding the waves while everybody else cannibalizes the other. Either that, or the townreads on you truly are justified but haven't implied your posting to be strong since 2 people were nicer NK targets than you. Is this a weak or unfair assessment?

Give a townread of any degree of confidence OR tell me which of {Eyestott, NDMath, and Blake} should be pushed to L-3 or L-2 right now.

It was half a joke and half serious when I said it but now it's all serious, you are basically locktown.

As for votes I'm very tempted to sheep Blake.

That's multiple strong townreads, but not clarified? Who's locktown? I'm guessing not

NDMath

since

Blake

is voting there?

I want dialogue.

[Taly]

NDMath

, with

Luca

being town, do you understand why he was pushing you? Do you have an rebuttal about your stance on

Paragon

, or the assertion that you're shadowing my POV this game?

[Taly]

I have to do classwork, I'll be here later.

I mentioned 6 living players, and asked content of them.

I expect 6 replies.

I wait for

Alo/Fire

[Taly]

Give a townread of any degree of confidence OR tell me which of {Eyestott, NDMath, and Blake} should be pushed to L-3 or L-2 right now.

It was half a joke and half serious when I said it but now it's all serious, you are basically locktown.

As for votes I'm very tempted to sheep Blake.

Oh wait, I misread this. I'm locktown?

Even if confidence in this has strengthened, this is the only notable piece of content coming from you.

Do you think my questionnaire towards

Blake

on her replies (or lack of) to my

Fuzzy/NDMath

towncases are reasonable?

Wonderful. I'll be waiting for your in-depth thoughts on Churros/Blake as they're a pair I cannot put off sorting here.

Churros is still quite a strong town read because based off my townreading Ame

Well I’m an idiot. I’m still confusing the replacements with eachother, that’s not a good sign. I’m struggling to read Churros for a reason I can’t say without breaking site rules. I need some more interaction with him in this game to develop my read on him. Blake is in my scumread group at the moment, along with NDMath. Pops and fuzzy we’re both scumreads of mine until recently so I need to re-examine day one. I suspect that either Churros or Something_Smart will become my third strongest scumread.[/b]

So you think

NDMath/Blake

are bussing partners? Why do you think so?

And

Churros/S_S

are both scumreads or suspects to

Blake

, while

NDMath

doesn't voice a thing about them. Thoughts?

Good that you feel exhilarated, that's much better than getting upset over the night. I felt like shit for 2 seconds, but then that all burned into vindication.

Can you give me a townread at any degree of confidence?

Myself!



Oh, that doesn’t count? The Ame/Firebringer slot is a rather strong townreading of mine right now based off of Ame Day 1. You’re a relatively strong one too. Aloratom rounds out the townreading group. Paragon is null for me, but with a town lean.

I want to hear more about the

Ame/FB

townreads, I think it has validity with the recent flips but

FB

has done 0 to really help there.

And the

Alo

townread?

In your eyes, every major component to the

NDMath

wagon

{Paragon/Alo/

Luca

/

Eyestott (to you)

}

is town?

The best place you can put effort is me, or anybody else who has a vote, or anyone else... I don't have enough opinions of your posts and that worries me. I think you could be scum riding the waves while everybody else cannibalizes the other. Either that, or the townreads on you truly are justified but haven't implied your posting to be strong since 2 people were nicer NK targets than you. Is this a weak or unfair assessment?

Nope, not at all! I’m assuming that Pops was murdered by the vigilante because that makes much more sense than the reverse. So with that said, Luca contributed much more to the town than I did day one. And that’s fine. I’m not expecting to carry my first game in 4 or so years. I’m treating this specific game as me refamiliarising myself with mafia(scum) as an adult, rather than as a teenager who hadn’t even accepted his sexuality yet.

VOTE: NDMath
Should’ve done this earlier. This ones for you, Luca.

I can understand tonally that this is likely genuine, but contextually, it's worrying that you know you're not providing much to the town and don't seem riled by the suspicion.

Also, you put

NDMath

to L-2. Just voicing this for the thread.

And I want to know what made you change to

NDMath

as scum, you agreed with my assessment here at the time:

oof, I'm going to be doing people's work for them...

Alo/NDMath/Luca

are actually next ISOs.

Luca

, I'm having a lot of trouble fathoming the votepark wagon on

NDMath

.

For 50+ pages of content, a replace-in getting the lynch for a

"bad readslist"

that's no worse than most other readslist in this game - AND has expressed that they haven't provided a full train of thought... it's just doesn't feel lynch-worthy, or overtly scum-indicative.

With this stagnant voting near EoD1, I'm starting to think most of scum have casted their votes and have consistently bloc'ed onto one of the day's major wagons, potentially even the current ones

Fuzzy/NDMath

.

I believe town is on that wagon, but I don't think it's scum-pushed... If the problem people have with

NDMath

is

"their reasoning being faked"

then why don't they put effort in themselves to read them?

Regardless of

NDMath's

alignment, I don't think this wagon is getting anywhere other than one of the stalest ass lynches that we could pull right now.

I'm thoroughly unconvinced and I'm even more vexed that people aren't trying to convince me. It's sketchy as hell considering the gamestate.

Very good point, Taly. Specifically that last line. UNVOTE:
If you had some voting power; who would you have lynched today?

(1561 is my reply to this btw.)

[Taly]

Oh wait, I misread this. I'm locktown?

Yup. This doesn't feel like your scumgame at all.

While you're correct, I want to hear why you think so.

I'm trying to parse between how a player who knows me will read me (based off meta) versus another, which I know is variable to playstyle, but

you/Blake

have the same conclusions of me, you want to follow her, she suspects you as you're in a pool of potential scum for her.

I want to see the nuances of your reads/solves.

Do you think my questionnaire towards Blake on her replies (or lack of) to my Fuzzy/NDMath towncases are reasonable?

Link?

I made 2 wallposts towncasing NDMath EoD1 and you haven't batted an eyelash to it.

I also towncased Fuzzy, and I wanted you to critique it because you said it had very poor logic, you never did.

Nothing about your stance here is genuine.

Also my question about whether my

Churros

POV is misled.

Essentially, my opening post this D2 begged a good bit of content from her.

Good morning.

I think there's very low odds I don't support an NDMath lynch today, but I will still do my due diligence and look into the game further regardless.

ur scum aren't u

no u

Fire

, I'm one of the few people not giving you a pass as town based off your predecessor, what does that say about my alignment or mindset?

[Taly]

I'm having a hard time sorting NDMath, Blake and Churros right now, and I'll have more on that.

Looking foward to that.

Taly, I'm Town reading you, but the outrage is a bit suspect given that you were against a Fuzzy lynch I thought but ended up on his wagon. I need to look at exactly how that occurred. Was it at EOD? Can you explain how that happened?

Yes, it was at EoD1, I went to sleep hours before deadline approached and I had to settle onto one of the two

NDMath/Fuzzy

wagons.

I was not keen on lynching either of them, I said this when I casted the vote, and well before that with my vote on

Churros

and skepticism of the

NDMath

wagon.

1710/1711 is my ISO on

NDMath

and the post I made after that outlined my thinking on both slots and the game.

At the time, I thought my vote was L-1 because

Pops

said so and I was too tired from ISOing to check, so I saw it as the more likely wagon, and went with the plist.

(Also because I was vibing with Pops a lot at that point)

I joined to help a consensus be made.

But ultimately, while I townread both of them, I thought

Fuzzy

was the optimal lynch for two reasons:

1)

Fuzzy

had a lot less variety of content than

NDMath

, so ease in sorting him throughout the game wouldn't have become as easy for me as it were

NDMath

, who I didn't ISO until literally before my vote since I wasn't too confident in the wagon on him.

2)

NDMath

had more content, so it'd be easier to engage him, as well as sort.

I'm not surprised

Fuzzy

flipped town even though I hoped I was wrong.

My "outrage" this dayphase stems from the fact that I towncased someone, majority of the plist wrote it off, and we mislynched. As well as two people I was wanting to work with are NKed. So I feel both justified and vindicated at my high-energy pushing the plist.

Also, because I had a huge accusation of me being S/S with the townread-mislynchbait I was defending after being tunneled for half the dayphase, so I was on the verge of siteflaking, tbh. Had

Fuzzy

flipped scum, as I thought was possible but highly doubted it, I would've been hardpushed this dayphase with incorrect justification off of a basis I couldn't defend myself against.

Which was another reason I voted to flip

Fuzzy

, I wanted to see how potential scum/town would push the S/S associative tell on me preemptively, or if the suspicion on me was more town-pushed or scum-pushed. So I wanted to know

Fuzzy's

alignment to help solve other slots. Hence why I'm second-thinking

Churros

as stated in 1806. Do you think he's more likely town or scum off my assessment?

So, I'm channeling my huge sense of discontent into production by coming after most of the slots in the game so I can filter the bullshit by making people spew.

[Taly]

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

I thought your read on Blake was Town. In fact, yesterday you said something about it not making any sense at all her being scum. Now she's hard scum? How does your read flip like that? It's essentially the obverse of what you just accused her of doing.

I think this is the post you referred to:

Umm. no
I will play in my own way, I know I need to improve but that will com in time'. How is an observation useless. I am 100 percent sure there is scum on my wagon. I am pointing sometng else for the town

btw you never answer my question.

Blake/wiisp-S_S/popsofctown/Churros

must have

at least one

town in it, who are they?

What's your take on

NDMath

?

I want to believe Blake is town. I can't make sense of a them=scum world right now, though I am struggling to understand some of their recent pushes.
I still think wiisp-S_S is town but I'm less confident on the read with how little S_S has done.

So, I second

Alo's

questioning.

It is a combination of the following.

1. There are two points that Churros did not bring forward already. The idea that I was the one person thinking that TheFuzzyLogic99 would flip scum is patently false, as there were markedly few players voicing a townread onthat slot, and several had stated that TheFuzzyLogic99 was within their PoE pools. The second point is that the flips making me more confident in my reads is scummy, which is easily disputed if you read this post a second time. I specifically pointed out, via the "still," that my reads were similar to what they were despite the flips, and I pointed out the predominant reason why this was the case. It is a very lazy point to work with
2. The tertiary reasoning increases the odds that it is a sheep vote from Churros, especially since there was that effort put in towards adding two extra reasons that don't quite add up for the scumread.

3. There is a sensible motive for the vote, since there is a case that can be made against me beginning the day by saying I would likely be pushing him today regardless.

There's also the fact that in the case that NDMath is part of the mafia faction, they would likely expect this same approach to the day phase. Attempting to swing the pendulum away from him before it begins properly is not a bad strategy in this case.

To 1)

So, out of 7 votes on

Fuzzy

,

Luca/Pops/You (to you)

are town, as well as I am? With

Churros/eyestott/NDMath

potential scum votes on the lynch wagon?

To 2)

I don't know if I follow this, can you rephrase?

To Bolded Part of 3)

So, you're aware of the argument that could made that scum-

Blake

would've gone and voted

NDMath

in the first place of D2 due to a mislynch occurring, and scum-

NDMath

expects this, so he capitalizes on this by voting you? Am I picturing this correctly?

Good morning.

I think there's very low odds I don't support an NDMath lynch today, but I will still do my due diligence and look into the game further regardless.

I made 2 wallposts towncasing

NDMath

EoD1 and you haven't batted an eyelash to it.

I also towncased

Fuzzy

, and I wanted you to critique it because you said it had very poor logic, you never did.

Nothing about your stance here is genuine.

Nothing about these two points indicate a lack of genuineness.

Sure, but I don't know why you find my posting to be not that insightful... It sounds dismissive when you townread me based off tone/emotion as well as say my towncase didn't have good logic, and that I was overthinking a read (not remembering exactly what you said this on, though.)

I figured you'd be working more towards solving with me here.

If I had to sum up my thoughts as of right now, I don't believe I am significantly wrong in my reads, still.

There are some things I wish to go over still, but the scum in this game are likely to be those predominantly in the background of the game. This indicates Something_Smart, Aloratom, NDMath, and eyestott. I suspect two scum are in this list, minimum, at this point in time.

Of the rest, I believe Churros is the most likely to be scum.

OK, walk me through

Churros

in full.

I will be blunt with you, Taly. It's simply a case that I'm not townreading him like I am other players outside of that list. I think I know pretty definitively who he is at this point by how he's been playing around me this day phase, and I still find it very strange that he would push you the way he did. I don't get stuck in the details because I simply don't read people by what they're doing, I read into their mindsets and how their thoughts are progressing.

That's what I'm trying to do, too, I just focus on details more.

In a

NDMath

scum world, who is town?

{Eyestott/S_S/Aloratom}

WITH

Churros/NDMath

makes a pretty big lynch/scumpool that literally consists of half the current living playerlist.

And

Alo

is a townread you'd defend last dayphase. It don't see much stock placed into townhunting on your end, here.

Fire, I'm one of the few people not giving you a pass as town based off your predecessor, what does that say about my alignment or mindset?

Just tells me ur attention seeking

[Taly]

This is a good post. Kinda.

If Taly is town, I wouldn't be surprised by most or all scum being in the background either.

With

Blake

second-guessing the read on you, and you actually elaborating on your playstyle below, I'm starting to think both of you are being truthful with your approaches here.

But there's another thing bugging me about you. Why you think my approach on Taly was "weird" considering you know how I play as town and that mostly boils down to our last game together since you don't have much experience with me in regular games.The unique slot in that game I didn't shamelessly began to shade/tunnel was you, and to some extent another lurker which I was a bit doubtful in my scum read on him, but after I decided he should die, I wasn't interested in much dialogue.

The slots I spent most of the game pushing there weren't approached with a open-minded way after I had my scum read on them settled. Maybe before I got to scum reading them, but never after. I was quite obnoxious even. Everyone ended up thinking so.

So... you thought pushing your lynchpool would've actually ended in the lynch on everybody in the pool, and this isn't a new strategy for you?

Can you link this game of yours?

The way I treated your slot was clearly not the norm, and it came from the fact I thought you had plenty of potential to do better than you were doing in that game at that moment, and from the fact that if town I knew you would be helpful later in game. I don't see Taly as a bad player or anything, but I wouldn't put as much stock in considering Taly a major effect for a town win in late game.

Ouch. :/

Why did/do you think I'm such a roadblock for town here?

I already came in this game with what I thought was a good solve. All it was left for me to do was to push them. I wasn't SR'ing their lack of contribution to need them to post more, I was SR'ing their contribution itself and there's little to nothing that can change, even now, me considering that Taly/Fuzzy push on Paragon/Pops had a opportunistic vibe.

My reasons for scumreading

Pops/Paragon

were disconnected to

Fuzzy

, actually, I initially suspected

Fuzzy

when I suspected

Paragon

, and I had a consistently long scumread on

Pops

throughout D1 that I kept waffling on and didn't change until near EoD1.

It's frustrating that you've continually lumped my contribution into a very narrow box. :/

Especially since you never engaged with my thought process, so it's personally hard for me to verify how you're genuine.

You've witnessed first hand the way I approach my scum reads. I don't feel like I've done much different in this game.

Why you're thinking that I would approach everyone like a exception behavior I showed in last game rather than like most of the behavior I showed last game?

That doesn't make sense to me either. It seems like an excuse to hedge on me scum, a slot that frankly has good equity of being mislynched at some point, especially with both Pops/Luca gone.

OK, this feels like a meta recount that more likely comes from town.

Taly I feel super uncomfortable with you repeatedly saying that you wanted to work with pops there.

That's not how I remember D1, even if by EoD you flaked on your scum read on her, I never sensed you had completely changed your mind and was hard town reading her.

What's up with that?

Yeah, I'm not bringing feels up about

Pops/Luca

NKs anymore, I was just saying part of what contributed to my mood/approach.

And I wasn't hard-townreading

Pops

and

Luca

much, even EoD1. I did start to townread

Pops

though 1680, and I never really felt

Luca

was scum, and I enjoyed both of their posting EoD1 leading up to the hammer.

It was just me thinking over Night phase, that I wanted to bloc with them.

And yeah, the discomfort is understandable given that you can't do much to dispel this statement and it's a bit odd coming after players who died, but that's my emotional progression + POV as honest as I can be.

-

Idk, I see

Blake/Churros

T-T more likely with this recent exchange.

[Taly]

So... you thought pushing your lynchpool would've actually ended in the lynch on everybody in the pool, and this isn't a new strategy for you?

Can you link this game of yours?

I can't, I don't want to out this alt yet. I only hinted to Blake so much about my identity because at a first moment I had good feelings on the slot early and thought I could work with her by making myself an easier read. Second reason her read on me was kinda bizarre considering our experience together. I couldn't afford to not talk about it.

Understandable, not prying further.

Ouch. :/

Why did/do you think I'm such a roadblock for town here?

You aren't hypothetically speaking a roadblock for town, I even think you can have better reads or overall perfomance than Blake in some games. I find Blake, or rather Ank, greatest strength to keep town working together/coherently more than necessarily her reads accuracy. It can be a game-changer for town in certain games, which I felt it was the case in our past experience.

I don't think bad of you regardless of your alignment here Taly. I don't even know how you got that impression from my post?

I was just wondering what your thought process was behind the solve of me being scum, but I guess that doesn't matter here so much.

Your POV on me in relation to

Blake

suggests that you're familiar with me, so I'm trusting you here.

This is my first solo game in awhile, my best and worst player traits are morphing into a clusterfuck.

Finally that phase of the game. I'm starting to feel lethargic about my reads.

I wish someone had a hotter take other than Fire maybe being scum.

I don't have really changed my opinions/confidence/reads but neither they are the same as before.

Taly you're flaking on your previous scum reads so who is scum right now to you?

If

you/Blake

are town then this game becomes incredibly easy, and I'm starting to think that's a very possible reality here that I'd even vote based off.

I could see Math scum sure.

But I've trouble with his partners if Taly isn't exactly one. If Taly isn't scum who would be Math partners anyway.

I hard TR Paragon, it's my main read

I think Eyesott has terrible posts but I still town read how he approached pops

I mostly town read Ame, even though Fire presence so far has been a bit underwhelming even for him.

I don't get any bad pings from Allo and his interactions with Math doesn't look SvS.

Blake is...probably not a Math partner.

If Taly isn't scum with Math this game just doesn't make sense from a mathematical POV for me for scum!Math with a 3-man team. I don't feel as good about a Taly/Math solve though as I did before. I think one of them might be likely scum at this gamestate but their interactions are kinda "huh" for buddies the more I think about it.

Math/Something_Smart would be a more reasonable solve but what's the probability of only 2 scum or 2 scum + traitor anyway?

If there's a possibility of 2 NKs, there's likelier 2 scum, but I'm not delving into setup spec unless it's an absolute necessity with more flips/actions to judge off of.

Paragon

is also the strongest townread I have in light of

Fuzzy/Luca/Pops'

flips, and his opening posts.

I have a hell of a time reading

Fire

and this is my first game experiencing

Ame

alone. But

Ame's

game here did not feel like scum-her in

Purgatory

.

with a

Churros/Taly/Blake/Paragon/Fire

towncore, scum is within

S_S/NDMath/eyestott/Alo

That's the best I have at the moment,

Fire

is least confident but the other 3 reads are solid.

I guess I'll start group ISOing.

[Taly]

My vote is on

eyestott

, I haven't felt strong enough to remove it.

[Taly]

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

[Taly]

My vote hasn't left anywhere and I'm not 100% at the townbloc yet, even then, there's town in the group of people I mentioned and I'm not that fickle with reads.

Also, if there's 3 scum, we mislynch, and 2 townies get NKed, it's gg at 3-3.

p-edit

NDMath

, with

Luca

being town, do you understand why he was pushing you? Do you have an rebuttal about your stance on

Paragon

, or the assertion that you're shadowing my POV this game?

I understood why he was pushing me while I was alive, what I didn't understand was how to stop him -- convince him otherwise. I don't know how to be coherent on what I see in Paragon. I don't recall what specifically was scummy in mostly shadowing your pov.

Then, do you agree that you've followed my thoughts a lot? And if so, why or what do you think about it?

[Taly]

My vote hasn't left anywhere and I'm not 100% at the townbloc yet, even then, there's town in the group of people I mentioned and I'm not that fickle with reads.

Also, if there's 3 scum, we mislynch, and 2 townies get NKed, it's gg at 3-3.

Meaning: I'm working toward a solve, not just what I'm thinking at the moment.

I'm not throwing away my townread after 2 wallposts of viewing you from a town POV, but I might need to look at it again upon a group.

I'll even do this with

Blake/Churros/Paragon

.

p-edit

Pedit: I agree I've followed your thoughts quite a bit. Because they are more similar to mine than most people and I've convinced myself you have to be town. Perhaps that's not towny, but I don't see what is scummy about it.

I just don't know if scum plays this way... I cannot recollect any experience with

NDMath

, so for him to approach my slot in this manner coming from scum would be a performance that I've never really encountered before.

Nothing about this progression of

NDMath

on me seems scum-indicative, I'd figure scum would've either deflected from doing this action or committed to bullshitting more.

but

Churros/Blake/NDMath

all town hurts my brain, but it's possible I think?

Perhaps that's my first ISO group.

[Taly]

I'll pay respect to

Luca

and metadive to see if I notice what he saw or have an opinion on that.

[Taly]

I don't know. I'll just be mad if I vote a towncase again and I find out I'm right.

I always correctly townread 1 or 2 slots that nobody else does, and they're either late-game WIFOM or disappointingly early mislynch.

Sometimes I win with this knack, though.

[Taly]

Oh god am I carrying us

[Taly]

I'm still interested in BoP Blake as a strategy for today, ngl.

Why not Churros or I getting BoP'd?

You say you want to sheep Blake but you haven't voted for NDMath. Actually, I don't think you've even voted someone in the game so far.

also phonepost

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

We're not even 24 hours into Day 2, Taly. It's a little early to be calling people out for lack of content.

For 3 flips, I'd expect much more activity at day start.

I think scum is likelier to perpetuate a lack of game solving at this point by overplaying apathy or just not contributing much due to the grim state the game is for town. Namely, if something is unclear to you, what are you doing to solve that?

Churros, does my read on you impact your read on me at all? Whether I scumread or townread you.

Same question to Blake.

[Taly]

I don't like that

NDMath

puts a lot of stock into convincing others that he's town, but I like his reasoning to vote

Blake

since it feels odd that

Blake

is confident with her reads in the event that her only notable scumread D1 flipped town. 1791 I do find his

Paragon

progression weird as it did go from town to scum very quickly (as

Alo

noted very early in his ISO), I don't think

NDMath

has put much stock into explaining it, or trying to, so his desire in keeping my townread on him feels a bit like AtE. 519 565

I like that

Blake

has awareness of the gamestate and is working with slots she scumreads (

Churros

), but I don't like that she threw

Alo

into her same D1 lynchpool after voicing that he's a read that she'd defend D1 1365 1639. I think her

NDMath

vote is more defensive versus gamesolve-oriented because it's based around scumreading him off the gamestate versus any particular action. I know the points I make about

Blake

are specific to her abilities playstyle-wise, so it's hard to gauge what's AI.

I'm the only person openly entertaining

NDMath-Blake

town-town. Mmmmm....