Mini Normal 2125: Chiptune Mafia [The End]

[Blake Belladonna]

Hello.

The vote stays.

[Blake Belladonna]

Hello, Wiisp.

[Blake Belladonna]

I outed the alt elsewhere.

[Blake Belladonna]

Paragon is town.
Taly is town.
Ame is town.
Aloratom is town.
Luca Blight is town.

popsofctown might be town.
eyestott might be town.
Churros might be town.
NDMath might be town.
Wiisp might be town.

TheFuzzylogic99 is not town.

This game is not that difficult. I'm confident enough in my top five reads at this point to be willing to fight any wagons on those players. I cannot currently determine which of the below five are those I'm most interested in flipping to narrow down the list further, but I believe there is reasonable odds that in the case that TheFuzzylogic99 is mafia, both of his partners are within this group. This is not an associative read.

[Blake Belladonna]

If anybody requires an explanation for why those players are town, I will provide it. Later.

I must sleep.

[Blake Belladonna]

Why is everybody leaving?

[Blake Belladonna]

Alright, then. I will wait until we have replacements.

[Blake Belladonna]

ok well now that a whole bunch of randoms posted, I need to confirm who Blake/Lamb is in this game
don't care about their meta, its just I need to put a face to that read list

@Blake
the problem I have, is that you have one scum read, towns, and low end town leans?
is this common in how you sort people? cause it bothers me

If it helps, think of that list as townreads, not necessarily townreads, and scumreads.

[Blake Belladonna]

You're addressing a player who has replaced out

I wouldn't be surprised to see multiple people have that same thought. It's better to address it anyways.

[Blake Belladonna]

Luca Blight, how do you approach the game as either alignment?

[Blake Belladonna]

Luca Blight, how do you approach the game as either alignment?

As Town I try and stay grounded. As scum it depends on the game before me.

Humor me. What type of approach would you have as scum this game? If it depends on who your partners are, a few examples would also be nice. Thank you.

Blake, I could settle on Fuzzy for today but what if I tell you I'm getting a deja-vu on your strong TR in Taly? Not budging?

Look at associatives between Fuzzy x Taly that I talked about. Not even a finger of self-doubt?

I will look at these later.

@Blake, why did you replace in as Blake instead of Ankamius (or Alyssa the Lamb)? Are you even going to allow that question, I don't know.
It's a not-insubstantial question because she intentionally plays the account differently.
I'm kind of increasingly annoyed by the alting stuff. Getting confused Paragon's alt is a very notmafia reason to get scumread. I'm pretty sure it was largely a vehicle for confbias from 1 person who's getting replaced now. But like it's annoying. And part of me feels like concealing Paragon's main is like playing against wincon and I don't like it. I have never been in the position of being the only one who can identify an alt, I am really bad at it, there are certain reasons this time is different. I like the idea of metaless mafia and stuff and wish mafia had the playerbase of digital poker or something so pure anon mafia was real but the halfsies stuff stresses me out. This is maybe a weird time to bring up the rant cause Blake has been a different alt and deliberately altered play is fine and not the same thing, but it's that, the slot was originally Y'shtola and I feel duped because she did an effective job convincing me she wasn't an Ank and feeling duped is normally supposed to have a 1:1 correspondence with identifying a scum but that isn't necessarily the case which is ugh.

I replace as different identities based on what I believe the game would react the most favorably to, or which presentation I believe I am the most likely to make headway with.

Y'shtola Rhul is a heavily role played account that was designed to be my account for attempting to play a support role for the town while not taking the lead on the game myself as I tend to do on my other accounts. Blake is the account with the biggest contrast because people were not listening to what I was saying beyond the roleplay, so I judged that the bluntness from Blake would be the most likely to be listened to with this disadvantage rather than Alyssa the Lamb's sarcastic demeanor, Branson's cold hard logic, or Alacrity's overly sweet demeanor.

I make this judgment regardless of alignment every time a new alt of mine is revealed, and this specific decision would be the same regardless of my alignment in this game.

When you look to identify play by Y'shtola Rhul, you can expect to find play by Y'shtola Rhul.

Can you explain what you mean here?

Signs that Y'shtola Rhul are playing are what you find when looking for signs that Y'shtola Rhul are playing.

It is self-evident, for the two are one and the same.

Does a Sin Eater recognize a threat to their existence? Those who have much to lose from their peers view those peers in a different light than those who would act for a higher purpose. Awareness grows, as one misstep may make the difference between an encapsulating crescendo and the illusion of falling off a tightrope overwhelming you.

Warriors of Light need only save themselves by telling the truth and trusting those who listen will recognize it as such. For stories that cannot be disproven, this will never result in damnation, only salvation or an extension of the trial of the heart. Sin Eaters must consider that by their own mouth, their damnation may be assured. This pressure creates a difference in posture, their words less reflective of their heart, their stances based on survival rather than truth.

For this case, which prevails? The thoughts ring true relative to their past testimony, their stances the same, their uncertainty reflective of their absence. Why then, say you, would a Sin Eater return for such a small token of their continued thoughts continuing when such thoughts brought them ire before? It is preposterous, for a Sin Eater must convince the town with honeyed words and conceived pretense to cover their darkened thoughts. Such is not the case, for none as such is present.

You don' t like to initiate conversation, do you? I notice that you ask vague questions and talk about theory but you dance around specifics. Why should I not scum read you?

Listen well, for my words provide the wisdom you seek. You need only read beyond what is present to your eyes. Read with your heart.

What's the scumread on here and we're >3 days to deadline so you should do something here...

Those posts don't answer my questions. She's been speaking in vagueries for the most part since we started and not playing the game near as I can tell.

The first quote was a rewording of the original point, which I had responded to popsofctown with for attempting to metaread me. She only found things that indicated that Y'shtola Rhul was playing, so I said the equivalent to "of course you will only find me playing, because that's all you looked for." It's self-evident because it had even been stated in this game already that my only completed game on that account was as a role that functioned similarly to the mafia, which I was removed from early on in the game.

The second quote is me telling you to read the post again and read what I'm saying beyond the roleplay. I have said quite a lot in this game, it just takes an extra step to find the meanings.

I've had reads, which I had made clear at several points throughout my ISO. I've had content, but it took me beating people over the head with it for people to realize it.

Taly made a pretty accurate analysis of what I've been saying throughout the game. That post is a good starting point.

[Blake Belladonna]

Your Y'shtola ISO was done before the Blake reveal, which was apparently a surprise to you, and you are familiar with Blake's meta. Does that change your read?

Not much other than

Blake

is a very competent player and NOT new at all.

But even with the context that she has experience, the only thing I worry is

Fuzzy

as a sole scumread. I wonder what rationale she has for a townread and rationale she has for an uncertain read, since she hasn't verified person-by-person.

Other than that, I don't see an agenda? Aside from pocketing me, since the reveal occurred after my ISO, but right now, that's just me doubting a townread when I feel pretty directionless right now.

I get the disagreements on my ISOs but I feel pretty isolated from the plist at this point. A lot of my posts have been met with either disagreement or derision, so I'm shutting down until we actually have a flip.

My faith in my reads this D1 is not there anymore.

My reads are rarely so cut and dry.

One thing I would like to point out to you is that I recently had another game where I struggled to gain concrete scumreads early on into the game. Several players immediately suspected me for this, as it gave the impression I was either not sorting the game or not putting in the effort to get to any confident scumreads. In the hindsight of that game with knowing who the scumteam actually were, it consisted of two players that I struggle to read off their own posting, a third that was entirely absent from the game, and a fourth that I had never once played with before.

My process for getting reads depends on getting a handle on the game itself and how it is progressing, and this game has been one of those where it is more difficult to do as such. My impression so far is that the slots I'm able to identify as town are mostly interacting with each other, while the slots I am less certain of are either under the radar, being pushed for reasons I don't find to be strong, or slots that are difficult to parse for me specifically.

I do have confidence in several townreads that I am willing to base the rest of the game around for the moment, but it's rather rare for me to get a strong view of the game when I have too many scumreads. It's a lot more common for me to reach that stage when I'm able to accurately identify at least half of the town first.

If this is one of those games, then this is a necessary step. Once there are a few flips, it will be more clear whether I'm on the right track or not. At that point, I will reassess my reads based on the information that will be available. This is how I play.

[Blake Belladonna]

Firebringer is town off of Ame's posting. My impression of her, from our recently completed game where we were scumpartners, is that she is very calculated and precise when she is scum. I will grant that some of my bias towards reading her is from the position of knowing that she wasn't town since the moment she replaced into that game, but my entire impression of her play this game was the opposite. She's a lot more fluid in her thoughts, her posts don't feel like they are double checked or posted with any endgoal in mind. For her to be scum, my belief is that she would have to be posting from the mindset of her entire team being in a spot that is advantageous to them, which would conflict with my view on both the game and the other slots. It's very hard to believe that this slot comes from a scum mindset.

Aloratom, Taly, and Paragon are all townreads for similar reasons. I either have personally witnessed their scumgame recently (Aloratom, Taly) or have reasonable expectations of their towngame (Paragon) that I am comparing their play in this game to.

Taly's posting this game is congruent to his emotional state and tone, and I strongly suspect that the suspicion he has been gathering this game is due to how his content quality fluctuates along this line. There is too much emphasis on what exactly he is saying, as Taly is a fairly emotional player at the best of times, and reading those players by direct content and what they are saying is rarely a good way to judge such players. Judging how their content changes with their stated emotional state is commonly the best way to judge players like this, especially their thought processes as their posting becomes more erratic in situations where they become frustrated or annoyed.

Aloratom's posting this game is far more cognizant and fleshed out than the game I recently witnessed of him being scum. I also considered him to be pretty clearly scum rather early in that game due to how he was handling the various tensions in that game and his willingness to coast off of them, and I'm not seeing that same mindset here. Normally, I would consider this a potential gamestate difference as well, but I'm less inclined to believe that in this case partially because the time between the two games are virtually zero, and partially because the quality of play would have to increase in a situation where the game is progressing in a very similar vein to the other one. I see no strong reason to believe this is case, especially since he didn't gather much heat as it was happening in the first game, so the most likely reason for the difference is alignment.

Paragon, admittedly, I can't very well explain. The best I can do for right now is that I expect him to play around my slot differently if he was scum in this game, which I expect since he had an awareness of my identity that no other player had. A secondary reason is that his content, despite gathering him animosity for the way he played out his post restriction, has been pretty solid at showing that he's attempting to solve the game. I don't have any strong examples of him being scum to back this with, but I believe it would be tricky for him to pull off this same level of content and cognizance if he had a red PM rather than a green one.

Luca Blight is my weakest read of the five, as I have no past experience with him to fall back on. Similarly, the only game of his I read some time back was a years old scumgame of his. Nonetheless, I believe his content this day phase is strong enough for me to look past for right now. It is an assumption, to be sure, but there will be time to double check the validity of this read later on if the pieces fit into place strangely later on in the game.

[Blake Belladonna]

Popsofctown is a player I historically have a bad time attempting to read. It's very unlikely I will have a confident read on her without some form of outside help, whether it be from a role or interactions with other slots. I do believe her thought processes trend towards a town mindset, but I don't understand her mind well enough to confidently make that call.

eyestott, I simply don't remember anything from other than his complaining about being so townread. This could be scum, this could be town. As of right now, he's in the list of players I wouldn't mind being flipped, but otherwise I think he will be easier to sort for sure in later days.

Wiisp had a single moment I thought was town, but otherwise I had no opinion of him.

Churros and NDMath are two slots I don't believe have very high odds of being town. NDMath's recent posting has had a downturn that I wasn't seeing beforehand, which tanked the read. Churros' had Taco's ISO working against him already, but I also believe that if he is who I expect that he is, then the Taly push is a significant error by him that shows he is not town.

[Blake Belladonna]

TheFuzzyLogic99 is a scumread for the following reasons.

First, he has exhibited signs that despite playing the game, he is posting a lot of nonsense irrelevant to the game. He has several cases of pushing content that has a basis in nothing, in a way that isn't possible to refute without engaging into nothing.
Second, he is not attempting to solve the game. He looks busy, but there is very little there that shows he has an underlying thought process he's working from in order to get his reads. Most of his 'content' about other players consists of idle responses, justifications for reads without directly stating them, and otherwise very few tangible stances.

His mindset is not town. He's looking busy and saying enough to scrape by while the rest of the town bickers amongst themselves, but if you look at what he is actually saying, there's nothing there that indicates he is attempting to solve the game.

[Blake Belladonna]

I am aware that Taly towncased him. I have not read that wall, but I will do so shortly.

[Blake Belladonna]

The case is nonsense.

I can pick it apart if needed, but it's based on very flimsy logic, overthinking his posting, and making assumptions that aren't sound. The conclusion of a strong townread also doesn't match what he posted throughout.

[Blake Belladonna]

I suspect the team is a combination of TheFuzzyLogic99, NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

The suspicion that Taly and TheFuzzyLogic99 are aligned as scum together makes more sense to me now, but I still believe Taly is town.

[Blake Belladonna]

I swear I see the same people talking every page, with some random pop ins,
Logically speaking there is likely to be 0-1 wolves in that grouping and probably no more

Don't quote me on that

Also again, sorry for my lackluster play
I keep telling myself I'll read but then I don't
I am still reading in real time though, so I will notice posts towards me, just haven't really back read

So, what I gathered from your part about Churros:
- You think Churros is an alt and by that potential person's approach, they're likely not town for pushing me?
- What's this significant error?

Correct.

The error in that instance is that I'm aware enough of his process of gathering reads to know that his scumread of you would not be genuine.

who am I not scum with at this point?

Oh, and why not Churros as a potential person for a combo here? Did I misread your post about him?

I never said you were scum with anybody. My point was that I can understand the mindset of holding that opinion more easily due to your Fuzzy towncase.

How come Blake plays town against other people's scumgames and then hard townreads them whenever they roll town henceforth
but she doesn't do that to me
she hates me
I knew it

I have no strong read of your play and how it would differ from alignment to alignment. The players I tend to have this level of confidence on after only one or two games are those that I can get a fairly good grasp on playstyle-wise, and it's easier to judge playstyle changes against that backdrop.

You are a player I haven't managed to get a good handle on, therefore I don't trust my judgment on how your playstyle shifts across different situations. It's likely a tonal thing.

I reread the last page. I am so sleepy. Most of Blake makes plenty of sense but her reason for townreading Taly is way too perfectly aligned with like a fake way to townread him if she needed to. I'm pretty paranoid there. Churros agrees with me that Taly seems scummy and Churros seems smart. Also, he gave me a churro. It was a touching act of kindness. Also if Churro matches my bad altguess than he's rly smart. I'm going to stop looking for evidence for or against and just play makebelieve. Also start willfully ignoring the reasons against.

With less than 24 hours left

Fuzzy needs to claim

. Although I'm not as familiar with Fuzzy's meta as I might wish I think there are posts that don't exist in the thread that would exist if he were town, there are so many things that happened in the game that it didn't strike him to comment upon.

NDMath and Fuzzy are really close for me. I think it's very slightly more likely Fuzzy flips red.

I don't remember any direct examples offhand, but I know I've made this type of argument before in the past. This is commonly how I attempt to read players who post like a logical player, yet are tonally emotional.

[Blake Belladonna]

I swear that if Pops does not flip scum I will be surprised. She so opportunistic and the fact that people do not see it is frustrating. If I am lynched today then they need to be lynched tomorrow. They need to be burned with fire!!!!!! At this point, I am sure I will be lynched. Please Please Please lynch to them tomorrow. They need to die.

Town leaning

Firebringer

-Town Via Ame

Tally-

So I read their ISo as I promised. I like Tally's posts. She asking questions, pushing back on things that they consider questionable
ATM I can't see them as scum.TBF I am a bit worried that they might be scum white knighting and I might be town reading them bc they are easily jumping on my wagon however this is prob me being paranoid

Unsure

Blake

- I can of see why they are voting me though I think the reasoning is a bit weak.

Something Specia

l There is nothing there to work with atm. Like to see a little bit more from them

Aloratom

- I dont like #253 as it seems like he is really trying to stretch Paragons crime to make a case. He misreps some of the
claims Paragon is making. #772 really sounds like a townie who is trying to read the game but is confused by the all the sideshows going on. #955 I dont understand if you really thought someone is scum , why you not push harder instead of quitting for a better wagon/
#1235 Why????????? Yeah they seem all over the map for me

Scum leaning

Churro-

- Blake has yet to confirm that they are mason together and the fact there was a vote on them kinda proof they are no. Tacos claim seem very much like a way to make players think he was town without doing much work. There is nothing about Churro I am liking atm. #1213 could be just lazy town, however, it could just be a way for them as scum not to explain their vote making them harder to read. The only reason that she is scum reading Tally as far as I can tell is that Tally is defending me as town. There is nothing town here

Scum

Pops

more reads coming later

[Blake Belladonna]

blake

, I agree with 1080 to come from town.

What do you think of my assessment of it in 1117?

Correct.

The error in that instance is that I'm aware enough of his process of gathering reads to know that his scumread of you would not be genuine.

What prevents you from joining

Churros'

lynch?

You are overanalyzing. If you introduce too many assumptions to your analysis, you are more likely to lead yourself down an incorrect path.

I am less willing to join Churros' lynch for two reasons. First, my scumread is dependent on whether I am accurately reading their main account. Second, I recently have begun to understand more of where he's coming from behind his suspicions.

[Blake Belladonna]

I apologize, I'm heading out for the night and there's a chance I won't be around again before deadline.

I will try to be here in case I need to hammer.

[Blake Belladonna]

Good morning.

I think there's very low odds I don't support an NDMath lynch today, but I will still do my due diligence and look into the game further regardless.

[Blake Belladonna]

If I had to sum up my thoughts as of right now, I don't believe I am significantly wrong in my reads, still.

There are some things I wish to go over still, but the scum in this game are likely to be those predominantly in the background of the game. This indicates Something_Smart, Aloratom, NDMath, and eyestott. I suspect two scum are in this list, minimum, at this point in time.

Of the rest, I believe Churros is the most likely to be scum.

[Blake Belladonna]

I will look into Taly more today, but I still believe the odds of him being scum is rather low.

[Blake Belladonna]

This is how Blake plays as either alignment.

[Blake Belladonna]

Because Y'shtola is functionally only a troll account after being outed.

I switched because she was outed. Would you like me to link where I outed her?

[Blake Belladonna]

congrats scum

I followed along somewhat and it took me a while to get either profii or BEF, although tbf I kinda did stop reading the game after d2 started loooool

oh

that's unfortunate

I will answer the rest later.

[Blake Belladonna]

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

VOTE: NDMath

This post is not town.

[Blake Belladonna]

Why would it only be a troll account though?

I strongly doubt a lot of players who are aware that Yshtola Rhul is an account by me would tolerate the way I play on that account. I hope you are aware that there are times I get a lot of pressure from other players for not having confident scumreads on day one, or for not playing to some arbitrary standard that some people hold me to without necessarily having even played with me before.

It is much easier to tolerate such a playstyle from an account that is unknown, with no expectations of them playing any particular way. As long as there is something there to work with, it is more commonly accepted among most players.

Let's say you wished to play support again, would you do another alt instead of just playing as yshlota?

Yes.

Considering you play with outed alts I find that kinda hard to believe unless you talk about it somewhere?

This is an irrelevant point. Blake Belladonna's playstyle differs in playstyle by adjusting how I present myself and my thoughts to other players in a way that is commonly more blunt and to the point. Yshtola Rhul purposely is vague and roundabout because one of my goals with that account was to push as little as possible on wagons outside of my vote. To this end, I have to be careful how I phrase my thoughts and suspicions, because my overall goal is to steer other players towards reaching my same conclusions and leading the charge for me.

It's notably much harder to do this in games where more detailed thoughts are expected to be outputed throughout the game, so it was necessary to switch towards a grandstanding and more aggressively roleplayed approach in order to say what I needed to say without shifting the power structure of the town too heavily in the process.

It was actually working, to some extent.

Links would be great.[/quote]

[Blake Belladonna]

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

VOTE: NDMath

This post is not town.

Can you expand on your reasoning? I’m just trying to sort out this exchange

It is a combination of the following.

1. There are two points that Churros did not bring forward already. The idea that I was the one person thinking that TheFuzzyLogic99 would flip scum is patently false, as there were markedly few players voicing a townread onthat slot, and several had stated that TheFuzzyLogic99 was within their PoE pools. The second point is that the flips making me more confident in my reads is scummy, which is easily disputed if you read this post a second time. I specifically pointed out, via the "still," that my reads were similar to what they were despite the flips, and I pointed out the predominant reason why this was the case. It is a very lazy point to work with
2. The tertiary reasoning increases the odds that it is a sheep vote from Churros, especially since there was that effort put in towards adding two extra reasons that don't quite add up for the scumread.
3. There is a sensible motive for the vote, since there is a case that can be made against me beginning the day by saying I would likely be pushing him today regardless. There's also the fact that in the case that NDMath is part of the mafia faction, they would likely expect this same approach to the day phase. Attempting to swing the pendulum away from him before it begins properly is not a bad strategy in this case.

[Blake Belladonna]

Good morning.

I think there's very low odds I don't support an NDMath lynch today, but I will still do my due diligence and look into the game further regardless.

I made 2 wallposts towncasing

NDMath

EoD1 and you haven't batted an eyelash to it.

I also towncased

Fuzzy

, and I wanted you to critique it because you said it had very poor logic, you never did.

Nothing about your stance here is genuine.

Nothing about these two points indicate a lack of genuineness.

If I had to sum up my thoughts as of right now, I don't believe I am significantly wrong in my reads, still.

There are some things I wish to go over still, but the scum in this game are likely to be those predominantly in the background of the game. This indicates Something_Smart, Aloratom, NDMath, and eyestott. I suspect two scum are in this list, minimum, at this point in time.

Of the rest, I believe Churros is the most likely to be scum.

OK, walk me through

Churros

in full.

I will be blunt with you, Taly. It's simply a case that I'm not townreading him like I am other players outside of that list. I think I know pretty definitively who he is at this point by how he's been playing around me this day phase, and I still find it very strange that he would push you the way he did. I don't get stuck in the details because I simply don't read people by what they're doing, I read into their mindsets and how their thoughts are progressing.

[Blake Belladonna]

But there's another thing bugging me about you. Why you think my approach on Taly was "weird" considering you know how I play as town and that mostly boils down to our last game together since you don't have much experience with me in regular games.The unique slot in that game I didn't shamelessly began to shade/tunnel was you, and to some extent another lurker which I was a bit doubtful in my scum read on him, but after I decided he should die, I wasn't interested in much dialogue.

This makes me think I might have your identity incorrect.

I'll need to think on this.

[Blake Belladonna]

But there's another thing bugging me about you. Why you think my approach on Taly was "weird" considering you know how I play as town and that mostly boils down to our last game together since you don't have much experience with me in regular games.The unique slot in that game I didn't shamelessly began to shade/tunnel was you, and to some extent another lurker which I was a bit doubtful in my scum read on him, but after I decided he should die, I wasn't interested in much dialogue.

This makes me think I might have your identity incorrect.

I'll need to think on this.

You were already quite confident that you knew my identity and I went out of my way to make it obvious to you because I thought it would help you read me easier and we maybe could work together.

In your past posts I always get the impression you already know who I'm. What would signalizing even harder make you "think" about?

You were already basing lots of your reasoning about me in knowing my identity. Why 100% confirming it to you makes you need to think about it?

It's because the way you talk reminds me heavily of one specific person. However, the way you describe your history with me doesn't match. I don't suspect that you're lying or attempting to mislead in this way, so I no longer believe that my guess as to your identity is correct.

[Blake Belladonna]

Never mind, I know who Churros is.

That slot equates to town.

[Blake Belladonna]

I am currently thinking that the scumteam is NDMath, Something_Smart, and eyestott.

I need to otherwise look through some things that I was looking to do earlier, but these three names stand out the most to me right now.

[Blake Belladonna]

But there's another thing bugging me about you. Why you think my approach on Taly was "weird" considering you know how I play as town and that mostly boils down to our last game together since you don't have much experience with me in regular games.The unique slot in that game I didn't shamelessly began to shade/tunnel was you, and to some extent another lurker which I was a bit doubtful in my scum read on him, but after I decided he should die, I wasn't interested in much dialogue.

This makes me think I might have your identity incorrect.

I'll need to think on this.

You were already quite confident that you knew my identity and I went out of my way to make it obvious to you because I thought it would help you read me easier and we maybe could work together.

In your past posts I always get the impression you already know who I'm. What would signalizing even harder make you "think" about?

You were already basing lots of your reasoning about me in knowing my identity. Why 100% confirming it to you makes you need to think about it?

It's because the way you talk reminds me heavily of one specific person. However, the way you describe your history with me doesn't match. I don't suspect that you're lying or attempting to mislead in this way, so I no longer believe that my guess as to your identity is correct.

I'm quite shocked you apparently mismatched me to be fair if you aren't lying here.

I thought you were insomnia until recently.

[Blake Belladonna]

I haven't been ignoring this game, I've been avoiding it due to the lag. Sorry.

[Blake Belladonna]

I haven't been ignoring this game, I've been avoiding posting in it due to the lag. Sorry.

Fixed.

[Blake Belladonna]

I could see Math scum sure.

But I've trouble with his partners if Taly isn't exactly one. If Taly isn't scum who would be Math partners anyway.

I hard TR Paragon, it's my main read

I think Eyesott has terrible posts but I still town read how he approached pops

I mostly town read Ame, even though Fire presence so far has been a bit underwhelming even for him.

I don't get any bad pings from Allo and his interactions with Math doesn't look SvS.

Blake is...probably not a Math partner.

If Taly isn't scum with Math this game just doesn't make sense from a mathematical POV for me for scum!Math with a 3-man team. I don't feel as good about a Taly/Math solve though as I did before. I think one of them might be likely scum at this gamestate but their interactions are kinda "huh" for buddies the more I think about it.

Math/Something_Smart would be a more reasonable solve but what's the probability of only 2 scum or 2 scum + traitor anyway?

In the worst case scenario, we still gain information from a NDMath townflip, since it changes the course of what the scumteam are doing this game. It's better to have that information earlier rather than later if there isn't a strong reason why NDMath should not be the lynch today.

I don't think that looking directly for associatives is the strongest course of action at this stage, regardless. If we have confirmation that NDMath is indeed scum, then we can look into associatives more tomorrow.

[Blake Belladonna]

Mmm, that may change. Haven't felt anything overtly scum-indicative.

S_S

pings me more for lack of content,

NDMath

because of his lackluster D2 posting, and

Alo

also had net 0 to discuss when there was plenty of content to.

Part of my quick townreading of

Blake/Churros

is that I don't see why scum would still be in the limelight if town has been pretty much cannibalized each other this game so far.

And there's just so much opportunity for

Blake/Churros

to scumread, misrep, or dismiss the other people's POV but they're working cohesively last page.

So yeah, my reads are becoming PoE based, and it makes sense given the gamestate read where

Blake/Churros

are town since we're the most vocal.

Are you feeling okay, Taly?

This post doesn't feel like you at all.

[Blake Belladonna]

@Blake Convince me that I'm not playing quite similar to how you wish to play Rhul. (Minus the storytelling aspect obviously)

@Taly earlier you mentioned finding it weird that I care more about your read of me than other players' read of me. Here's an example:
Blake votes for me. "It's just one vote, I don't care."
Paragon votes for me. "Yep he's still scum."
eyestott votes for me. "I think I need that vote... I should be able to get it back later."
But now when I'm dropping out of your townreads and into your willing to hang pile I get concerned because I don't know what to do about it. I haven't managed to be townie this game -- I don't see how that will change. More importantly there is not a path for me to survive the day with your vote and voice against me instead of for me.

You're expecting me to be townie at a constant, as you're putting a lot of value into the *now* at any point in time, and that skews your reads away from me. I find myself as town having peaks of towniness which I struggle to maintain.

Why are you asking me to convince you of what you're thinking?

That's a very strange question to ask when your previous opinion of me is that I'm not genuine in the trajectories of my thought processes.

[Blake Belladonna]

The extra kill has to be from a form of vigilante. (1-shot, full, JOAT, etc.)

In fact

VOTE: Blake

I didn't forget you taly I just think this is more interesting to pursue right now.

'iInteresting' is a good word choice here.
VOTE: Blake

She was pretty much the only person who thought fuzzy's lynch would probably hit scum (maybe barring pops who fuzzy was tunnelling.) And I find it scummy how the flip against her reads almost makes her more confident in her reads.
I agree with Churros that her answers about Rhul don't quite hold up either.

I thought your read on Blake was Town. In fact, yesterday you said something about it not making any sense at all her being scum. Now she's hard scum? How does your read flip like that? It's essentially the obverse of what you just accused her of doing.

She wasn't hard scum, more emphasis on wanting something to come from Churro's push, as it was different from what I would expect from scum!Churros. I'm assuming by observe you meant reverse, to which most of reads haven't changed. I had to do some reconsidering since pops+fuzzy were dead and they were two main candidates to fill out a scum team with paragon and churros.

After seeing Blake's reaction I am scumreading Blake more and townreading churros more.

At some point I'll need to look back at Churros entrance and see if I still find it scummy or not.

Pedit: I agree I've followed your thoughts quite a bit. Because they are more similar to mine than most people and I've convinced myself you have to be town. Perhaps that's not towny, but I don't see what is scummy about it.

To everybody else still alive in the game, I'd like to point this out.

NDMath had just asked me to convince him that he's not doing the same thing that I did with Y'shtola Rhul, the account where I was purposely vague and trying to get my points across without directly shifting the game towards my own will. This is directly after he had gone out of his way to justify a scumread on me. To accentuate this further, there's no indication that Churros and I reconciling in a sense has created any shift in his thought process, or even that he realizes that it happened in the first place.

This entire thought process is fake. NDMath is scum.

[Blake Belladonna]

Churros, does my read on you impact your read on me at all? Whether I scumread or townread you.

Same question to Blake.

No.

[Blake Belladonna]

I don't like that

NDMath

puts a lot of stock into convincing others that he's town, but I like his reasoning to vote

Blake

since it feels odd that

Blake

is confident with her reads in the event that her only notable scumread D1 flipped town. 1791 I do find his

Paragon

progression weird as it did go from town to scum very quickly (as

Alo

noted very early in his ISO), I don't think

NDMath

has put much stock into explaining it, or trying to, so his desire in keeping my townread on him feels a bit like AtE. 519 565

I like that

Blake

has awareness of the gamestate and is working with slots she scumreads (

Churros

), but I don't like that she threw

Alo

into her same D1 lynchpool after voicing that he's a read that she'd defend D1 1365 1639. I think her

NDMath

vote is more defensive versus gamesolve-oriented because it's based around scumreading him off the gamestate versus any particular action. I know the points I make about

Blake

are specific to her abilities playstyle-wise, so it's hard to gauge what's AI.

I'm the only person openly entertaining

NDMath-Blake

town-town. Mmmmm....

Taly, are you scum?

[Blake Belladonna]

congrats scum

I followed along somewhat and it took me a while to get either profii or BEF, although tbf I kinda did stop reading the game after d2 started loooool

oh

that's unfortunate

I will answer the rest later.

I don't understand how this "outed" Y'shtola. It certainly didn't connect her to you. I know when I saw that in the 2121 post-game and Y'shtola in this game I didn't think anything about it.

It takes very little effort to determine who I am from those posts, since there was only one spectator of the game.

Importantly, it's very hard for me to determine if somebody does or is willing to do that work, and Y'shtola Rhul only works as a playstyle if my identity is hidden, so caution is the better option in this case to prevent future awkward interactions.

[Blake Belladonna]

I could see Math scum sure.

But I've trouble with his partners if Taly isn't exactly one. If Taly isn't scum who would be Math partners anyway.

I hard TR Paragon, it's my main read

I think Eyesott has terrible posts but I still town read how he approached pops

I mostly town read Ame, even though Fire presence so far has been a bit underwhelming even for him.

I don't get any bad pings from Allo and his interactions with Math doesn't look SvS.

Blake is...probably not a Math partner.

If Taly isn't scum with Math this game just doesn't make sense from a mathematical POV for me for scum!Math with a 3-man team. I don't feel as good about a Taly/Math solve though as I did before. I think one of them might be likely scum at this gamestate but their interactions are kinda "huh" for buddies the more I think about it.

Math/Something_Smart would be a more reasonable solve but what's the probability of only 2 scum or 2 scum + traitor anyway?

In the worst case scenario, we still gain information from a NDMath townflip, since it changes the course of what the scumteam are doing this game. It's better to have that information earlier rather than later if there isn't a strong reason why NDMath should not be the lynch today.

I don't think that looking directly for associatives is the strongest course of action at this stage, regardless. If we have confirmation that NDMath is indeed scum, then we can look into associatives more tomorrow.

I don't think we can afford a mislynch, so I'm having trouble vibing with the idea of

"if

NDMath

is town, we have information"

I'm really trying to follow what you believe the scumteam is doing this game but I get the idea that it's problematic if you voice that, so I need a more elaborate breakdown of the gamestate or more sound reasons to scumread and lynch

NDMath

.

I am saying that on a fundamental level, the game as we are seeing it doesn't make sense in the case that NDMath is town.

It is important to have that confirmation now, because there is a chance that if the game is functioning differently than any of us is expecting it to, we both have a lower chance of gaining a scum lynch elsewhere as well as putting us in even more dire straits tomorrow in the case that we lynch town outside of NDMath today.

It is important to realize that the most likely possibility for why Luca Blight was the scumkill for night one is because he was the biggest pressure point on the scumteam directly. He was very gung ho about killing NDMath for the majority of his time in the game and he was defending Churros, but otherwise he was mostly single-minded in how he was approaching the game. It's hard to believe that he was fearkilled, due to the primary source of the BoP argument on him being from a player that is no longer in the game. It's also hard to find other reasons for him to be a notable first night kill except for the case where Churros is a desired mislynch going into day two. This coincides with the sudden momentum that appeared on my slot on day two, but this also indicates that NDMath is scum anyways since his jump was the worst of the three by far.

The way the game plays out like this makes too much sense and requires very few assumptions, because who else would be killed in this scenario? Churros and popsofctown have plenty of scattered suspicion onto them. Paragon, Firebringer, Aloratom, and eyestott are widely townread, but have had fairly little impact on the game towards the end of the day. Something_Smart has no impact and is not townread. Taly has had mounting suspicion onto him throughout the latter end of the day phase. I wasn't a solid kill outside of a BoP argument, which I suspect is evidence of primarily Taly being town, since I had just led a lynch on town and wasn't widely townread. Luca Blight is the best kill for the scumteam if NDMath is scum, since it's more precise play to kill Luca Blight on night two if NDMath is town both to help thwart a potential doctor and because then they get another free mislynch in the mix.

There's information you can gain from the kills, and the Luca Blight kill, when you look at the possibilities and what it would take for him to be left alive, leads directly to NDMath being scum.

[Blake Belladonna]

Warrior of Light

I'm still proud of that post.

[Blake Belladonna]

I believe that the game is mostly solved at this point.

It's hard for me to believe Churros is scum.
It's hard for me to believe Paragon is scum.
As useless and incorrect as Firebringer is, I still believe Ame was significantly town.
Taly has strange posts that make me wonder if he's trying to maneuver around the town in an overexaggerated way, but it's more likely he's just town that is undergoing mental strain regarding this game.
Aloratom equates back to town after his posts today. I didn't like the way he handled the end of day yesterday, but I'm not certain that wasn't more than a fluke.

NDMath is scum.
I can see eyestott's confusion being either genuine or fake.
Something_Smart is hard to parse.

Whether there is two scum, three scum, or two scum and a traitor, I believe that any traitor would be either Taly or Firebringer. I'm not entirely aware of how traitors are handled in the normal queue, but I suspect that traitors endgame when all group mafia are eliminated, so I'm not too worried about this.

Two scum would make sense to me if town is relatively light on power. I know that normal games tend to be rather townsided by my standards, so killing three vanilla town in a game where there is likely 4-5 town PRs is rather unlikely. It makes more sense if town's power is condensed into a smaller amount of players. In this case, I feel Something_Smart is a more likely partner than eyestott, but I would not remove Aloratom from suspicion either.

[Blake Belladonna]

Thank you, Something_Smart.

[Blake Belladonna]

I see we are hitting a situation where somebody's scumlist is one step away from myself and my scumreads.

[Blake Belladonna]

It's rather impressive how dull a game gets when someone decides not to play while citing how boring the game is for why they aren't playing.

[Blake Belladonna]

I apologize, I have been burning out on mafia lately. This is the cause of my relatively scarce posting throughout the past week or so.

[Blake Belladonna]

Hello.

Is there anything I need to address immediately?