Mini Normal 2128: Normal Mafia - Game Over!

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: BBmolla

Im upset u beat me to it bc i decided where my first vote would go pre-sign up

Theres a lot going on here. I forgot how para played this game. Love it.

[TheTrollie]

Wait im confused.... I thought ive played with para but apparently hesnnew as of this month??

[TheTrollie]

Wait im confused.... I thought ive played with para but apparently hesnnew as of this month??

Are you thinking of Parama? Or PeregrineV?

Parama maybe? But like in my memory the avatar was even the same. I guess i am wrong.

Ok so then paragon is a whole other situation. Gotcha

[TheTrollie]

Wtf is a miller crumb

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: allomancer

this feels interesting

[TheTrollie]

new avatar who dis?

[TheTrollie]

Allo is town homeboys

I agree he has some townie posts but i think all of his towntells are easily fabricated.

I don't love Para's vote hopping at all. But it feels like hyper/neurotic town more than scum maybe?

[TheTrollie]

Allo is town homeboys

I agree he has some townie posts but i think all of his towntells are easily fabricated.

Just because they are easily fabricated doesn't necessarily mean they are. Since you are voting him I assume you think they are fabricated, so what makes you think so that scum!Allo is faking his towntells here?

Correct - since I am voting him my take is that they are fabricated. the town tells are too tryhard for my liking

On first glance I got a good impression on Para and Dany. I liked Para's "wall" even although I don't agree with most of it, but I think I get where he is coming from.

I think I like Allo the least so far. He comes a bit off to me, like he is walking a thin line between everything. He hasn't really tried to sort Para since he voted him and I feel he takes stances just to dismiss them quickly like change from mavs to Para or reading Dany/MT as TvT just to agree with bob's suspicion against MT (at least that's how it came across to me) like as if he doesn't really believe in them.

VOTE: Allomancer

I don't like this at all. Post 121 requires that Skellen has some level of resistance to my conclusion that Allo is scum. If she thinks Allo is scum then she also thinks the potential towntells are either not towntells or are fabricated. I don't see her posting 121 and then joining me in 122.

VOTE: Skellen

Don't like gerain's entrance, Cat is good, don't like the Bob wagon.

I placed a random vote, and said there was a ton of posts overnight, and I never like day 1 wagons either. they always suck

I like Bob's most recent post. Unfortunately, I think truly does believe what he's saying!

VOTE: Allomancer

I can't remember why I wanted to quote this. Maybe because I also didn't love Gerain's entrance, or maybe because I legit have no idea of what to make of Paragon. Can't remember

[TheTrollie]

oh - when in post mode I didn't realize I had quoted both of those individually. So yeah:

Post 123 - I didn't like Geraintin's entrance either.

Post 124 - I can't figure out what to make of Para. Like at all.

Also...

WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT A MILLER SLIP IS AND WHY IT MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED IN THIS GAME? ty

[TheTrollie]

Feel better para!

looking forward to greeting this replacement and getting things going full strength

[TheTrollie]

turns out yes I know what a miller crumb is - it was when ppl were saying it was a miller slip that i thought it was some slip unrelated to the miller role. thanks

[TheTrollie]

I feel strongly that bob is town - he's incredibly tunnel-visioned but town.

I don't like that wagon.

Bambi join my Skellen vote. After re-reading the thread today I feel very good about it.

[TheTrollie]

My case is in 138.

The Allo vote is also a convenient wagon to join to stay out of the current wagon without risking unraveling it. It reads like scum who was entering the game going around poking into various arguments but then finding a nice vote to place without real regard to the insights just laid out.

pedit (is that the right term here i forget?) Oh great - BB come along as well

Mod note: Edited to fix tag

[TheTrollie]

I read this whole bob thing in detail today - there are no scumtells in anything he said. There was incredible conviction which people were reading as scum because they didn't agree that his reasoning was as flawless as he did. but he definitely believed what he was saying. thats my take.

so lets move it along and start talkking about literally any other interaction than the one we've spent nearly all of the first 8 pages on

[TheTrollie]

Alright, who are you after then? I'd scroll and look at the VC but I wanna see your sales pitch.

BB doesnt have a sales pitch - he's voting the lurker who very well may end up being scum cuz i do see BBs argument but whoever im voting (dont care enough to go back and check skilla or whatever) has an actively scummy post

pedit - yes that is exactly right. this is my first game in like ....years. idk how many ill check. quarantine came - my entire industry got shut down and I literally was like "fuck it ill play some ms in my free time"

pp edit thanks bb :*

[TheTrollie]

fwiw i just looked and i think my last game might have ended april 2017 - almost exactly 3 years wowzer.

No response.

I'm not sure i love your summary of what the case is - The case is that in order for her to criticize me for feeling that Allo's potential towntells were fabricated, she would have to read allo as town. If she read allo ask scum even slighly, she would naturally also get that I thought Allo's posts were scummy and that those potential towntells were BS. But then she goes along and votes Allo in her next post. It stinks of scum going through and reading trying to poke holes and "scumfind" where she can because her two inqusitions don't match up to a single narrative of what her take on the game was as she read - she either thinks I'm stretching to make a case that Allo is scum or she agrees that allo reads scum

[TheTrollie]

Ok NOW can we please start voting skellen?

[TheTrollie]

I truly and honestly think this entire interaction is a dead end.

[TheTrollie]

The response that skellen can read allo as scum but still want to grill me on my read isn't responsive to my argument.

My case is that her entrance to the game reads as scum coming in and finding holes to poke in various places down the line without all of the reads she makes fitting into a cohesive, town-motivated view. I say i think allos towntells are easy to fake, and she says just because they are easy to fake doesnt mean that they are, and rhen presses me on it. In the very next post she votes allo bc she thinks allo is scummy. Those dont line up - if she scum reads allo then how would she even think to ask me how i could view allows potential tells as fabricated - she supposedly agrees he could be scum, so must therefore agree that any town posts are fabricated. It just reeks of someone who is faking a position instead of tracking and actually making reads.

Moreover, when pressure mounts on this, her reponse is to say "of course i asked you, bussing is a thing" as if to say that all along she was thinking to ask me so that she could figure out if allo and I were scum together? (bob... don't @me)

Bullshit.

Look im not dead set on lynching skell today but i feel like theres a good argument here and im trying to change subjects from a wagon that i am feeling is against town and town lead.

[TheTrollie]

...(i also dont think scum!allo posts 77)

...

This isn't a bad take.

[TheTrollie]

I don't think that it's that scummy, I actually agree with Skellen's questioning of Trollie.

I don't think I'm making my case clear - it has nothing to do with the fact that she pushed me on my reads.

The case is that for Skellen to say "what makes you think so that scumAllo is faking his towntells here?" has only 1 good response - that Allo is scum. By definition, if you think someone is faking townie posts it is because you think they are scum. You cannot fake a town post as town.

I just don't see a town player who reads Allo as scum as also pressing the only other person voting Allo on why I thought Allo's townieness was fake. I thought it was fake cuz i read him as scum. Skell also MUST HAVE THOUGHT they were fake because she was claiming to read him as scum.

Skells wall when she enters reads as scum doing fake scumhunting. That's the case.

Also - when pressed on this. her response sucked.

[TheTrollie]

That all said - I'm down to vote elsewhere today. Just not on Bob.

Or morning tweet or mavsfan.

[TheTrollie]

why is Espressojet still self-voting?

[TheTrollie]

I like iD's reads actually.

I think it's highly likely that there is at least one scum in {allo, skellen, BB}.

VOTE: BBMolla

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:

Will wait for skellen replacement to come on to probably put my vote back there.

[TheTrollie]

ok, gone through The Trollie posts.
there is a lot of flipping around, a lot of posts saying they would be happy to move their vote, some gentle encouragement for others to join their vote. all without huge amounts of evidence

this is the person I am finding the mos suspicious. so guess i'll VOTE: trollies

ISO'd gerain bc i thought calling me "flipping around" without having pressured para would have been something to discuss - looks like he did actually.

In post 106, TheTrollie wrote:I don't love Para's vote hopping at all. But it feels like hyper/neurotic town more than scum maybe?I kinda love it, there's nothing reasonably solid enough to go off of that warrants keeping a vote stuck on one person.

I dislike vote hoping generally. creates too much noise and scum can hide in it.

about to start catching up, expect a ton of little posts rather than really long ones. sorry if people hate this

I like this consistency. Though I would not agree that what I am doing is flipping around.

[TheTrollie]

with BB out of the hot seat (for now), I'm still mostly feeling allo or madoka

Maybe Bambi or Espressojet too? idk.

[TheTrollie]

I'm truly not sure why Gerain defended himself against my saying that his vote on me actually seemed like a good one. Never said you plucked your vote from nowhere. I actually think you're push on me and reaction is fairly town.

I don't agree with the argument - not in a "I know I am town so I disagree with you" kind of way - I disagree with the assessment that I am going around willy-nilly with my votes. I just have strong townreads on the players everyone else has been obsessing over so far today so I'm trying for the life of me to gain some traction on running a waggon up on any of my scum reads. But thoe people in my "I wont vote" and "I will vote" piles have been fairly consistent - at least I think.

But anyway - I'm oddly fairly supportive of this conversation because I'm desperate for any conversation that isnt about bob/morning/mavs (and lesser so idanny bc he could be scum but i like his reads so i'm leaning not on him).

now that i say it out loud, this isn't all that pro-town of me but like - whatever I'll attract some convo for a beat just to get us talking about something new.

[TheTrollie]

...
I find myself considering voting Trollie for having a lynchpool so off-key with mine. However, I think that the case that Trollie is "too open" or "free" with his votes isn't that strong. He's only shown scum reads on the three listed above.
...

This is a concise wording for what I was saying at the top of my last post about how I don't really agree with the logic behind Gerain's case on me, just FYI. That could me gerain is scum but I think he's just town who doesn't like when people move their vote around - which is consistent with something he said way back when about para (i quoted that in my last post or the one before that).

...

@Trollie

is it pronounced "Trolley" or "Trohlie" ?

Like a choo choo train - though literally 90% of people have interpreted it the other way, I don't know if anyone else has actively asked that in writing on the forum/ in a case where they don't need to say it out loud. appreciated!!

I def should have used an "ey" retrospectively but, oh well. The idea was I liked Ollie better than Olley.

Spoiler:

Allo is town homeboys

I agree he has some townie posts but i think all of his towntells are easily fabricated.

Just because they are easily fabricated doesn't necessarily mean they are. Since you are voting him I assume you think they are fabricated, so what makes you think so that scum!Allo is faking his towntells here?

Correct - since I am voting him my take is that they are fabricated. the town tells are too tryhard for my liking

On first glance I got a good impression on Para and Dany. I liked Para's "wall" even although I don't agree with most of it, but I think I get where he is coming from.

I think I like Allo the least so far. He comes a bit off to me, like he is walking a thin line between everything. He hasn't really tried to sort Para since he voted him and I feel he takes stances just to dismiss them quickly like change from mavs to Para or reading Dany/MT as TvT just to agree with bob's suspicion against MT (at least that's how it came across to me) like as if he doesn't really believe in them.

VOTE: Allomancer

I don't like this at all. Post 121 requires that Skellen has some level of resistance to my conclusion that Allo is scum. If she thinks Allo is scum then she also thinks the potential towntells are either not towntells or are fabricated. I don't see her posting 121 and then joining me in 122.

Trollie, I think your case on Skellen is disingenuous. It's apparent that her reasons for finding Allo suspicious in 122 were different than the reasons she questioned in 121.

The case is that for Skellen to say "what makes you think so that scumAllo is faking his towntells here?"

has only 1 good response - that Allo is scum

. By definition, if you think someone is faking townie posts it is because you think they are scum.

This is incorrect. To answer that you believe the towntells are fake because he is scum is circular reasoning, and not what she was looking for. She wanted you to explain what

about his posts

gave you the impression that they were fake.

I'm apparently doing a really bad job at explaining the case against Skellen - but for the like 3rd time -

this is a strawman.

I never questioned Skellen's case against Allo - What was scummy about skellen was that there is only one reason to believe that someone is faking townie posts, and that reason is that the person is scum. Town don't "fake" town posts. So what was scummy of skellen's post was that if she was reading allo as scum (and according to her vote, she was), then it makes no sense to ask me why I thought the towntells were faked. If you were reading allo as scum, YOU ALSO HAD TO READ THE TOWNIE POSTS AS FAKED - BY DEFINITION.

U say that is circular reasoning - it isnt. Town don't fake town posts. They can't. So if I thought Allo was faking townie posts, it is BECAUSE I was scum-reading him. And then when another player goes "oh look at that allo is so town bc in post #whatever he said "WHATEVER" and bro only town would say that" - OBVIOUSLY, anyone SCUMREADING allo would say "no way - "WHATEVER" is such a fake townie post"

***THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

If Skell didn't also think "nah man, "WHATEVER" isn't really a towntell that could be someone tryharding to be town," THEN, Skell PROBABLY WASN'T ACTUALLY SCUMREADING ALLO because IN ORDER TO SCUMREAD someone, you have to also believe that anyone townreading them is incorrect, and that those "townie" posts are just feigned attempts.

***

I stand by this argument - it actually makes more and more sense every time I make it (despite me not being able to properly explain it apparently). And tbh I don't think Madoka does a great job convincing me or defending the town-ness of that slot so I am gonna go back and

VOTE: Madoka

Does that make sense to you, Trollie?

I don't know which of your posts this refers to but - no.

[TheTrollie]

Oh, I see where you're getting hung up. You're misinterpreting the meaning of towntell (or rather Skellen misinterpreted your use). She meant towntell as in

something designed specifically to look like a town slip

. So she was asking you what you thought was designed to look like a town slip. She wasn't scum reading Allo because she felt his posts were designed to look like a town slips. She was scumreading him because she felt he was scummy (fence-sitting and hopping).

Your interpretation of what she meant by towntell is

something that comes from town

. From that perspective, I can see how you could perceive her suspicions as contradictory. Again, however, that is not what she was insinuating. Based on what she thought you meant by towntell, she was asking what you felt were deliberate acts of Allo to look townie. And since she perceived his actions as scummy, not townie, it makes sense that your reasoning stood out to her.

Does that clear it up?

you have no idea wtf she meant.

this is the scummiest post from this slot yet.

[TheTrollie]

One person asking me how to pronounce my name, another asking me to stop screaming.

Is this some new magic tech? Can you hear me out there?!

[TheTrollie]

^ding ding ding^

[TheTrollie]

I give u all my respect and dignity. I said "wtf" not "what the fuck" - its internet lingo, not me being abrasive.

That said, I apologize for upsetting you.

[TheTrollie]

I stand by this argument - it actually makes more and more sense every time I make it (despite me not being able to properly explain it apparently).

I agree with Madoka here.

What happened was you voted Allo because it's town tell's are easily fabricated. Skellen ask's you how you know they are fabricated and agrees that it's scummy but for a different reason than you.
Let's say Allo's flips scums and Skellen voted it because of X. Then she reads your reasoning for voting it as Y, and Y is bad reasoning than it is likely you two were bussing. This is what I got from here post, and I agree with it.

I get this. But the thing is - I wasn't voting allo

because

I thought he was faking towntells. That is not only not consistent with what I said - it is impossible. You cannot believe someone is faking townie posts without scumreading them.

I voted allo because I thought he was scum, and then when BB (or someone can't remember) said "allo is town bc he's got all these townie posts," my response was to say that the posts he felt were "town-Allo" weren't the type of townie posts that struck me as especially hard for scum-Allo to fake.

So then when Skell comes on and plays catchup - my case is that she - being scum, saw the strawman argument to vote me that iDannyboy is positing here. Which is fine - that isn't inherently scum motivated. BUT, if Skell was town who truly was reading Allo as scum (as she claimed), I don't buy that she would have thought to make the argument you are making here iDanny. Because if Skell was town with a legit scumread on Allo, then when she got to my post that says "yeah Allo has some townie looking posts but they don't strike me as especially hard to fake," TOWN-Skell would have to have AGREED with that completely. Because if she was scumreading allo, then she has to also agree that any townie looking posts are fabricated from scum-allo. The reason I think that slot is scum is becuase scum-Skell, with a fake-scumread on Allo would know Allo is town, and then pounce on my post saying "What makes you think Allo is faking"

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie: I think town needs to be flexible with their suspicions and this may lead to some inconsistencies in certain players they suspect and vote for at any given time. Why do you think Skellen’s inconsistency in posts 121 and 122 are indicative of scum? I’m almost there but I fear reading inconsistencies can, at times, provide false positives. I didn’t read her Allomancer vote and push as scum trying for a mislynch or start a wagon. In the vote count in 107, there were better wagon alternatives to jump on and easier cases to be made vs voting Allomancer in hopes of starting a wagon for a mislynch. Thoughts?

To the first part of your question - I hope my post just above this helps answer that question? the short version is: The train of thought that is "trollie's argument for why allo is scum = allo is faking town" is a misunderstanding that I do not believe is consistent with a player who is thinking "Allo = scum"

I agree inconsistencies aren't always great scum detectors. I also dont love Skells response to my case, nor do i love the entrance of Madoka who feels she needs to explain her way out of an inconsistency that she cannot understand. Town Madoka would probably have said either "look I dont get Trollie's beef with skell but whatever - here are my reads" or would have said "Yeah, dude, I don't understand skell's rationale either, but here's what I think of the game." I think its likely that the reaction we got - "let me explain to you what the other person who use to be in my slot was thinking" - comes from scum.

I could be wrong - but its just my strongest read right now and it sounds like some other players are seeing what I'm seeing so I am feeling pretty good about it.

On your second question - I actually think Allo was a good vote for scum entering the game at that point. the MT/bob shit was getting really tricky, and there was so much attention going on there - simultaneously, players like me made it clear we didn't want any part in it. There's definitely a scum strat in entering the game and pushing the bob wagon through to completion, but if I'm right in thinking that the cat scratch, bob, MT, ect. kerfuffle was mostly town v. town - then scum entering the game and pushing that early D1 wagon through to completion (or really just getting in that mess at all even if it was to vote for someone else involved) could have been risky.

Latching onto someone who was actively talking about the interaction but wasn't at the center of the situation and already had a vote on them (aka allo) would have been a smart move from scum.

Maybe that's a crazy tale - but my point is that it's very possible for there to have been scum motivation for voting Allo at that point.

[TheTrollie]

madoka - i like ur last post. thats the first post I've liked from ur slot the whole game actually.

What are your reads? Are you ready to place a vote?

Hi Titus!

[TheTrollie]

Any big disagreement with my list or something anyone want to discuss

I can't tell if I love or hate this post

What do you think is to love or hate about it?

It reads very over-eager to me

I don't see iDanyBoy being read anywhere near neutral this game

Anyone who reads otherwise, I'd be wary of

I'm neutral on iDanny

[TheTrollie]

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

Why couldn't the post come from town Skell, when you know I see it the same way but you don't think I'm scum for it.

Because you werent scum-reading allo.

[TheTrollie]

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

Why couldn't the post come from town Skell, when you know I see it the same way but you don't think I'm scum for it.

Because you werent scum-reading allo.

Because if Skell was town with a legit scumread on Allo, then when she got to my post that says "yeah Allo has some townie looking posts but they don't strike me as especially hard to fake," TOWN-Skell would have to have AGREED with that completely. Because if she was scumreading allo, then she has to also agree that any townie looking posts are fabricated from scum-allo. The reason I think that slot is scum is becuase scum-Skell, with a fake-scumread on Allo would know Allo is town, and then pounce on my post saying "What makes you think Allo is faking"

I feel like we're going in circles, but this is the part that doesn't make sense with me, she can agree with you that the town tells are fake but asking why you feel he is scummy is to find out if you have a valid reasoning or your making it up because you already know the alignments.

Totally. Everything you said is true. But it's a strawman - the way you describe her actions is incorrect. She wasn't "finding out if I had valid reasoning" for "why I feel he is scummy" and she didn't "agree that the town tells are fake."

She specifically picked out my response to BB where I argued against his claim that allo was obvs-town, and seems to indicate that she

does not

or at least has questions as to whether the allo posts are authentically town or not:

Allo is town homeboys

I agree he has some townie posts but i think all of his towntells are easily fabricated.

Just because they are easily fabricated doesn't necessarily mean they are. Since you are voting him I assume you think they are fabricated, so what makes you think so that scum!Allo is faking his towntells here?

If the above post was more like the situation you articulated above, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The part that makes it scummy is that it didn't go down as you described it. I'm not making a case in 106 for scum-allo, I'm defending my vote by saying that allo having townie looking posts is not inconsistent with my read on him as scum, because they could just as easily have been scum faking town.

tl;dr

106 says:

"It is possible to believe that scum-Allo would be making the same posts that you all are reading as town."

To question the legitimacy of that take is inconsistent with a player who is, in their next post, going to vote allo. If you are going to vote allo, you also MUST agree with 106, and Skell's 121 shows that she's not fully on board.

[TheTrollie]

@Mavs

I see your question - It's a really good one and tbh haven't read into that earlier post. I will take a look at it later when I have more time and get back to u.

In the meantime -

have tried to pay a little attention to Trollie since I voted for them.
they, as they announced in advance, went and voted for madoken

madoka - i like ur last post. thats the first post I've liked from ur slot the whole game actually.

What are your reads? Are you ready to place a vote?

Hi Titus!

later on this post, which feels like inching towards moving vote away.
There is less flipping their votes around sinc ei posted about them, but I don't really want to move my vote anywhere

I keep going back and forth on gerain, but I really don't love this post. feels so over defensive. There's no reason he has to say anything about me/his vote right now. idk - curious what other people think but I can SO easily see this as scum. MT agrees that his push on me isnt good & iDanny starts to see my case on Skell...gerain feels like his wagon of choice is losing steam....he posts this. i guess i mostly think thats possible bc its a bad post. doesnt make sense "I hate flip floppers trollie is a flip flopper so vote trollie" ...[3 pages later]..."trollie stopped flip flopping but idk i still dont know where i'd move my vote"

Anyone else feel like its odd for gerain to feel the need to justify still voting me even though I havent switched my vote recently?

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie: How do you feel about post 116? I’ve been reading Skellen’s entrance into the game over and over both framed as she’s scum and then as town. Post 116 seems to suspect Allomancer who she does eventually vote. Post 119 agrees with Allomancer’s read. Post 121 is the defense of Allomancer and post 122 is the Allomancer vote. This seems to flip flop quite a bit on Allomancer. None of her posts have consistency on Allomancer. You’ve pointed out the inconsistencies in posts 121 and 122. But this was a theme earlier with less conviction. She seems to be fixated on Allomancer leading to a wide range of thinking he’s town then thinking he’s scum. I can see town skellen doing this whereas scum Skellen would just be lazy and make a case for a bob vote. The Unvote of allomancer as the first post she makes after you throw suspicion on her and that whole post in general has a weird feel to it. Thoughts? You’ve got my vote, but I don’t wanna let iDanyboy bully me into a vote, so can’t do it in this post

yeah so - this fits into my interpretation of skells entrance to the game - goes through poking holes where she can - including in my "faked townread" post that has gotten so much attention.

Then she gets down to placing a vote, and votes allo without realizing that the scumread on allo is inconsistent with that post against me.

As a matter of fact mavs, I think this is pretty damning. 119 shows that the scum-allo read was very early on in her reading of the game. It's the first post of content she gives us. So again, I just don't buy that town-skell asks me to defend the idea that scum-allo can fake townie posts. If she can't get fully behind that claim, she also can't scum-read skell.

[TheTrollie]

If someone is active and a weaker scumread, keeping them alive over a lurker with a weaker scumread serves two purposes. First, the active slot will actually produce content allowing the read to be confirmed or denied. The second is that an active scumfuck will lead you to their partners if you're good enough to listen to what people want as opposed to the literal text of their words. A lurker will just continue to lurk.

I agree with this.

I'd vote Bambi actually for this alone - I like her but like, just going out there and saying "eh ill wait till day 2 to do anything" is p anti-town.

p-edit: speak of the devil

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie: How do you feel about post 116? I’ve been reading Skellen’s entrance into the game over and over both framed as she’s scum and then as town. Post 116 seems to suspect Allomancer who she does eventually vote. Post 119 agrees with Allomancer’s read. Post 121 is the defense of Allomancer and post 122 is the Allomancer vote. This seems to flip flop quite a bit on Allomancer. None of her posts have consistency on Allomancer. You’ve pointed out the inconsistencies in posts 121 and 122. But this was a theme earlier with less conviction. She seems to be fixated on Allomancer leading to a wide range of thinking he’s town then thinking he’s scum. I can see town skellen doing this whereas scum Skellen would just be lazy and make a case for a bob vote. The Unvote of allomancer as the first post she makes after you throw suspicion on her and that whole post in general has a weird feel to it. Thoughts? You’ve got my vote, but I don’t wanna let iDanyboy bully me into a vote, so can’t do it in this post

yeah so - this fits into my interpretation of skells entrance to the game - goes through poking holes where she can - including in my "faked townread" post that has gotten so much attention.

Then she gets down to placing a vote, and votes allo without realizing that the scumread on allo is inconsistent with that post against me.

As a matter of fact mavs, I think this is pretty damning. 119 shows that the scum-allo read was very early on in her reading of the game. It's the first post of content she gives us. So again, I just don't buy that town-skell asks me to defend the idea that scum-allo can fake townie posts. If she can't get fully behind that claim, she also can't scum-read skell.

I think you can agree with someone's read but disagree with their reasons for having that read.

pls read my ISO. as I've explained half a dozen times at this point - my case has nothing to do with skell's ability to question my scumread on allo while also scumreading allo. Read my ISO. look for the most recent one with idanny and the TLDR - i can't go through this again but its just not what I've ever said.

[TheTrollie]

fuck it - I did it anyway

@Allo

Spoiler: On why Trollie's case on Madoka =/= "Skell couldnt scumread allo and ask trollie for reasons he is scumreading allo"

On first glance I got a good impression on Para and Dany. I liked Para's "wall" even although I don't agree with most of it, but I think I get where he is coming from.

I think I like Allo the least so far. He comes a bit off to me, like he is walking a thin line between everything. He hasn't really tried to sort Para since he voted him and I feel he takes stances just to dismiss them quickly like change from mavs to Para or reading Dany/MT as TvT just to agree with bob's suspicion against MT (at least that's how it came across to me) like as if he doesn't really believe in them.

VOTE: Allomancer

I don't like this at all. Post 121 requires that Skellen has some level of resistance to my conclusion that Allo is scum. If she thinks Allo is scum then she also thinks the potential towntells are either not towntells or are fabricated. I don't see her posting 121 and then joining me in 122.

VOTE: Skellen

I'm not sure i love your summary of what the case is - The case is that in order for her to criticize me for feeling that Allo's potential towntells were fabricated, she would have to read allo as town. If she read allo ask scum even slighly, she would naturally also get that I thought Allo's posts were scummy and that those potential towntells were BS. But then she goes along and votes Allo in her next post. It stinks of scum going through and reading trying to poke holes and "scumfind" where she can because her two inqusitions don't match up to a single narrative of what her take on the game was as she read - she either thinks I'm stretching to make a case that Allo is scum or she agrees that allo reads scum

The response that skellen can read allo as scum but still want to grill me on my read isn't responsive to my argument.

My case is that her entrance to the game reads as scum coming in and finding holes to poke in various places down the line without all of the reads she makes fitting into a cohesive, town-motivated view. I say i think allos towntells are easy to fake, and she says just because they are easy to fake doesnt mean that they are, and rhen presses me on it. In the very next post she votes allo bc she thinks allo is scummy. Those dont line up - if she scum reads allo then how would she even think to ask me how i could view allows potential tells as fabricated - she supposedly agrees he could be scum, so must therefore agree that any town posts are fabricated. It just reeks of someone who is faking a position instead of tracking and actually making reads.

I don't think that it's that scummy, I actually agree with Skellen's questioning of Trollie.

I don't think I'm making my case clear - it has nothing to do with the fact that she pushed me on my reads.

The case is that for Skellen to say "what makes you think so that scumAllo is faking his towntells here?" has only 1 good response - that Allo is scum. By definition, if you think someone is faking townie posts it is because you think they are scum. You cannot fake a town post as town.

I just don't see a town player who reads Allo as scum as also pressing the only other person voting Allo on why I thought Allo's townieness was fake. I thought it was fake cuz i read him as scum. Skell also MUST HAVE THOUGHT they were fake because she was claiming to read him as scum.

Trollie, I think your case on Skellen is disingenuous. It's apparent that her reasons for finding Allo suspicious in 122 were different than the reasons she questioned in 121.

The case is that for Skellen to say "what makes you think so that scumAllo is faking his towntells here?"

has only 1 good response - that Allo is scum

. By definition, if you think someone is faking townie posts it is because you think they are scum.

This is incorrect. To answer that you believe the towntells are fake because he is scum is circular reasoning, and not what she was looking for. She wanted you to explain what

about his posts

gave you the impression that they were fake.

I'm apparently doing a really bad job at explaining the case against Skellen - but for the like 3rd time -

this is a strawman.

I never questioned Skellen's case against Allo - What was scummy about skellen was that there is only one reason to believe that someone is faking townie posts, and that reason is that the person is scum. Town don't "fake" town posts. So what was scummy of skellen's post was that if she was reading allo as scum (and according to her vote, she was), then it makes no sense to ask me why I thought the towntells were faked. If you were reading allo as scum, YOU ALSO HAD TO READ THE TOWNIE POSTS AS FAKED - BY DEFINITION.

U say that is circular reasoning - it isnt. Town don't fake town posts. They can't. So if I thought Allo was faking townie posts, it is BECAUSE I was scum-reading him. And then when another player goes "oh look at that allo is so town bc in post #whatever he said "WHATEVER" and bro only town would say that" - OBVIOUSLY, anyone SCUMREADING allo would say "no way - "WHATEVER" is such a fake townie post"

***THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART:

If Skell didn't also think "nah man, "WHATEVER" isn't really a towntell that could be someone tryharding to be town," THEN, Skell PROBABLY WASN'T ACTUALLY SCUMREADING ALLO because IN ORDER TO SCUMREAD someone, you have to also believe that anyone townreading them is incorrect, and that those "townie" posts are just feigned attempts.

***

I stand by this argument - it actually makes more and more sense every time I make it (despite me not being able to properly explain it apparently). And tbh I don't think Madoka does a great job convincing me or defending the town-ness of that slot so I am gonna go back and

VOTE: Madoka

I stand by this argument - it actually makes more and more sense every time I make it (despite me not being able to properly explain it apparently).

I agree with Madoka here.

What happened was you voted Allo because it's town tell's are easily fabricated. Skellen ask's you how you know they are fabricated and agrees that it's scummy but for a different reason than you.
Let's say Allo's flips scums and Skellen voted it because of X. Then she reads your reasoning for voting it as Y, and Y is bad reasoning than it is likely you two were bussing. This is what I got from here post, and I agree with it.

I get this. But the thing is - I wasn't voting allo

because

I thought he was faking towntells. That is not only not consistent with what I said - it is impossible. You cannot believe someone is faking townie posts without scumreading them.

I voted allo because I thought he was scum, and then when BB (or someone can't remember) said "allo is town bc he's got all these townie posts," my response was to say that the posts he felt were "town-Allo" weren't the type of townie posts that struck me as especially hard for scum-Allo to fake.

So then when Skell comes on and plays catchup - my case is that she - being scum, saw the strawman argument to vote me that iDannyboy is positing here. Which is fine - that isn't inherently scum motivated. BUT, if Skell was town who truly was reading Allo as scum (as she claimed), I don't buy that she would have thought to make the argument you are making here iDanny. Because if Skell was town with a legit scumread on Allo, then when she got to my post that says "yeah Allo has some townie looking posts but they don't strike me as especially hard to fake," TOWN-Skell would have to have AGREED with that completely. Because if she was scumreading allo, then she has to also agree that any townie looking posts are fabricated from scum-allo. The reason I think that slot is scum is becuase scum-Skell, with a fake-scumread on Allo would know Allo is town, and then pounce on my post saying "What makes you think Allo is faking"

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

Why couldn't the post come from town Skell, when you know I see it the same way but you don't think I'm scum for it.

Because you werent scum-reading allo.

I really think that only Scum-Skell could have interpreted my post the same way you are, iDanny. I don't buy that town-skell would make that same misinterpretation if she was scumreading Allo.

Why couldn't the post come from town Skell, when you know I see it the same way but you don't think I'm scum for it.

Because you werent scum-reading allo.

Because if Skell was town with a legit scumread on Allo, then when she got to my post that says "yeah Allo has some townie looking posts but they don't strike me as especially hard to fake," TOWN-Skell would have to have AGREED with that completely. Because if she was scumreading allo, then she has to also agree that any townie looking posts are fabricated from scum-allo. The reason I think that slot is scum is becuase scum-Skell, with a fake-scumread on Allo would know Allo is town, and then pounce on my post saying "What makes you think Allo is faking"

I feel like we're going in circles, but this is the part that doesn't make sense with me, she can agree with you that the town tells are fake but asking why you feel he is scummy is to find out if you have a valid reasoning or your making it up because you already know the alignments.

Totally. Everything you said is true. But it's a strawman - the way you describe her actions is incorrect. She wasn't "finding out if I had valid reasoning" for "why I feel he is scummy" and she didn't "agree that the town tells are fake."

She specifically picked out my response to BB where I argued against his claim that allo was obvs-town, and seems to indicate that she

does not

or at least has questions as to whether the allo posts are authentically town or not:

Allo is town homeboys

I agree he has some townie posts but i think all of his towntells are easily fabricated.

Just because they are easily fabricated doesn't necessarily mean they are. Since you are voting him I assume you think they are fabricated, so what makes you think so that scum!Allo is faking his towntells here?

If the above post was more like the situation you articulated above, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The part that makes it scummy is that it didn't go down as you described it. I'm not making a case in 106 for scum-allo, I'm defending my vote by saying that allo having townie looking posts is not inconsistent with my read on him as scum, because they could just as easily have been scum faking town.

tl;dr

106 says:

"It is possible to believe that scum-Allo would be making the same posts that you all are reading as town."

To question the legitimacy of that take is inconsistent with a player who is, in their next post, going to vote allo. If you are going to vote allo, you also MUST agree with 106, and Skell's 121 shows that she's not fully on board.

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie: I forget who (I think it was Morning Tweet) asked you how to pronounce your name. And you said Trolley. Is your signature “scum, scum, scum went the Trollie” a reference to The Trolley Song from Meet Me in St. Louis? I think I got it.

Yes. As is my new avatar

[TheTrollie]

I'm gonna go to bed but I'm pretty sure Madoka's explanation here contradicts her analysis of the skell quarell from when they entered the game

[TheTrollie]

Just read these two posts. I think they tell different stories of how she read skell. Also i still really think this first post is super scummy:

Spoiler:

Oh, I see where you're getting hung up. You're misinterpreting the meaning of towntell (or rather Skellen misinterpreted your use). She meant towntell as in

something designed specifically to look like a town slip

. So she was asking you what you thought was designed to look like a town slip. She wasn't scum reading Allo because she felt his posts were designed to look like a town slips. She was scumreading him because she felt he was scummy (fence-sitting and hopping).

Your interpretation of what she meant by towntell is

something that comes from town

. From that perspective, I can see how you could perceive her suspicions as contradictory. Again, however, that is not what she was insinuating. Based on what she thought you meant by towntell, she was asking what you felt were deliberate acts of Allo to look townie. And since she perceived his actions as scummy, not townie, it makes sense that your reasoning stood out to her.

Does that clear it up?

Madoka what made you townread Skellen's ISO before you replaced in?

It was more that I thought she had a greater chance of being town than rand% based on her catchup, her newbie status, and quick comparison to her mini normal 2111 iso. Scum are more likely to be hypersensitive to potential inconsistencies as they want to maintain a consistent narrative. Town are more reckless/stream of consciousy without really caring about their presentation. Her questioning trolley's Allo read in 121 then voting Allo in 122 indicated that she was playing stream of consciousy and not to make friends. An alternative example of how scum!skellen might act in this case is either

defend

Allo or

buddy

Trolley. But the fact that she questioned both, tells me she was in a scumhunting mindset, not a presentation mindset.

(There was also the possibility that she and Trolley were mates because her question did look like scum might address their partner, but I didn't think this likely based off trolley's side of the interaction)

[TheTrollie]

Just read these two posts. I think they tell different stories of how she read skell.

Can you spell it out for me?

Yeah sorry actually it's not as in your face as I remembered.

In the first post she justifies Skells behavior by saying that this is all a misunderstanding and that Skells posts on me and then on allo were consistent with one another

in the second one she says she pre-replacing in town-read skell because "Her questioning trolley's Allo read in 121 then voting Allo in 122 indicated that she was playing stream of consciousy and not to make friends."

The second post justifies her slot's towniness by saying that only town would post the inconsistency that she has spent the whole game trying to prove was not actually inconsistent

[TheTrollie]

I'd vote titus

I would vote bob for the lolz but I recall having strong townread on him from the beginning.

I'll still also vote bambi too?

I had a really strong townread on mavs from page 1.

I will vote with BB but I'm going to hold on putting that vote on Bob for a few hrs because I would prefer Madoka, Titus, Bambi...maybe even espressojet, idanny, gerain to bob.

But I'd have to reread the whole Bob thing from early in the day before I do anything other than be the 7th vote on bob and I sorta don't want to spend my time doing that.

So - i guess either wagon someone on my list above or get that wagon to 6 and I'll post intent.

[TheTrollie]

@Trollie, why do you prefer that many lynches above Bob? Why not wagon them?

i thought i explained this in my last post - last time i thought about bob was when i read the early d1 shit resulting in his wagon and I was v convinced he was town

fast forward to now and I've grown to have stronger town-reads on other players, some of whom disagree with my bob read. There's a good chance I sheep a or some of those town reads with my vote today. I don't want to wagon bob pre either re-reading the early game stuff that gave me a town-read on him, or pushing through the lynch and sheeping my town-peeps. Knowing I don't have time for the former today, I am saying I am happy to do the latter.

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:

[TheTrollie]

hi mala!

[TheTrollie]

hi mala!

Hey Trollie! How you doing bud ?

I'm good! I haven't been on here in a long time either. this is my first game since 2017.

anyway - I'm very glad to have you in the slot I've been voting like the entire game. this is going to be fun!

now I'll vote someone else.

I'm prob gonna vote bob soon. I don't have a strong scumread at all but just sheeping bb

[TheTrollie]

A flash wagon on me is always a bad choice. Leave me to day 4 and i almost always solve minis.

P.s. some times on the night i die

Waiting for a vc but down for this

[TheTrollie]

Didnt mean to quote bob there

[TheTrollie]

Allo vote was odd from gerain i agree w Titus on that.

I need to re-read the early d2 stuff i just skimmed but.. Yeah. Idk. Im starting to think my some of mt early d1 town reads that i didnt reconsider may be wrong. Specifically gerain and bob. Titus is a better lynch target today.

The MT kill seems risky for scum-bob. It feels like a great kill for scum who want the bob wagon back for d2. I don't buy that scum-bob kills MT N1 - no way. BB is the obvious kill unless u were trying to stir shit

[TheTrollie]

My endgame was to get shot as a PT cop. If I didn't, it suggests Molla's mason claim has more merit.

I never get mislynched without scum pushing me to save one of their own. I wasn't about to here. Better a scummy slot than me.

I want to look at the slot who voted Allomancer, Allomancer and geratim today. Geratim because opportunistic, the guy who voted Allomancer because that had a zero percent chance of happening and Allomancer in case of a bus/that person being right.

Wait, what?

Second this.

But also if titus is town mala may be scum

[TheTrollie]

Why might u be scum? Bc ive scum read ur slot the whole game and think u jumped on the titus shit slightly too aggressively for someone who was townreading titus and have a rapport with her

But dont worry mala - i think titus is scum so ur fine.

[TheTrollie]

Fake claims are apart of the meta. If only scum can fakeclaim, they get a huge advantage.

When I get off work I think I'll find us a better target then Titus. Or, if we're so gung ho on her demise, at least find the next suspicious person.

Good idea, I think [Mav,Allo] are scum and I've had a turnaround on Bob after rereading the thread more likely to be scum than town though I still keeping switching between. Also not sure on Jay, CSF and Mala.

Wow our reads are not in alignment anymore

[TheTrollie]

so titus...to be clear, you are now claiming VT, yeah?

[TheTrollie]

ok so then what i dont understand is this...

My endgame was to get shot as a PT cop. If I didn't, it suggests Molla's mason claim has more merit.

The phrasing here is odd. If you think there are implications to the fact that you were not killed last night, you should just make the case. To say "If I didn't [get shot as a PT cop]" when we all know you didn't get shot is odd. its not necessarily a scum-tell, but it makes more sense coming from scum who is painting a false hypothetical bc they are scum af. I don't buy that as town, you wouldn't come out and just tell us blankly what it is that you believe your still being alive means. (i.e. the definitely better, and probably more town phrasing of the second sentence is "Since that isn't what happened, Molla is probably not scum")

You even do it again in 721

Because a PT Cop gets a false positive on masons. If I suggest hey Danyboy has a PT and you're not scum, scum get a free mason. If I say Danyboy lacks a PT, they know you aren't a mason. If they didn't believe masons could exist, they shoot me as I am a straight up cop.

the pro-town way to say this is to explain how your being alive means we might be able to make certain assumptions about bb being scum. The fact that you instead are trying to justify the fakeclaim with what you were at the time thinking it WOULD mean as opposed to telling us how it does mean something is scummy imo

I also dont even think ur correct, as long as there is a mason claim in the game, a town PT cop has the ability to help scum. ScumBB knows that if ur a PT cop you can't actually make any conclusions as to the alignment of anyone unless you suss out BB's alignment. no scum was going to shoot you after you almost got run up late D1 and were claiming a role that could help scum whether or not BB is town.

it just feels like a fabricated justification for a bad claim. I'm also not even sure why you retracted the claim so quickly. or at least gave any info on why you fakeclaimed before being pressed

[TheTrollie]

I agree with idanny about letting d2 play out a bit

[TheTrollie]

Who the other two scum are, I know BambiJ has something to post and I don’t think Madoka has even posted yet.

Mala took the madoka slot.

Is there anything to glean from idanny not knowing this? i dont think so but maybe?

[TheTrollie]

Yeah ok BB is right.

Intent to hammer - I'm obv not waiting on a claim but I'll let some ppl who havent had a chance to weigh in on this speak before i hammer.

[TheTrollie]

Mala - I agree with you to an extent. like - it was a horrible claim as town or scum and I just don't know why scumtitus would do that

but I have to say I am not feeling very good about the silence, the problem is we will not get anywhere until titus flips at this point, esp without titus saying more

I'll prob vote next time im on here. I'd love to hear from titus and more from mala about alternate ways to use this time first but D2 will drag on like this if we dont get it over with.

[TheTrollie]

Damn

[TheTrollie]

I don't follow the bob timeline arg - I need to re-read it when I can focus more, but:

(1) I think the timeline makes sense if Bob is town because town-bob doesn't know on D2 that BB is confirmed town. scum-bob knows D2 that BB is actually a confirmed town mason so it would be more obvious for bob to ask that question D2 as scum and not as town. I am not closely following the arguments mavs and iD are making but it seems like they are arguing the opposite?

(2) I don't think the analysis is worthless, but even without the above, N2 kill shows that mafia want BB dead. There's def reason for scum to leave BB alive to help try to find his mason buddy and also just bc as an early claimed role, he could have been pressured on a lynch in a D2 or D3. Now that they killed BB i think it makes sense to ask the question

(3) most importantly, there is a big difference between BB's claim on d1 and d2. A mason is a lot less of a threat to scum as a mason neighborizer. Once they found out that every night BB was alive meant another person got added to their neighborhood he was a lot more of a threat, and that only happened D2.

This leads me to my next question - does neighborizing resolve before a kill?

[TheTrollie]

ok so - I'm just throwing this out there but feel free to tell me this is a horrible idea ---

having reread BBs claim - both he and his "mason partner(s) are neighborizors"

then he says "You can take one guess who I neighborized they aren’t around anymore ". Which sounds like they each get to neighborize each night - sounds insane but also sounds like its the only way to interpret his post. That would mean that the neighborhood is potentially 4 players large (BBs partner got a neighbor N1 and they both got one last night...hypothetically). 4/9 players in PT with 1 mason in it and 3/9 players mafia - in that world there is a real chance mafia is in the PT and knows BBs partner while we do not.

i dont think the mason should claim rn but I think maybe some sort of neighborhood claim could help town? I think we should discuss here and the neighbors should discuss in their PT, but it feels like we're at the point where, with this player makeup, and without BB in the game anymore - info on the neighborhood could benefit town more than mafia rn (esp since theres a real chance mafia is in the PT by now).

Maybe I'm crazy. and again, I do not think the mason or anyone in the PT should claim right away but I am wondering what ppl think about this idea in general on D3

[TheTrollie]

why?

[TheTrollie]

yeah but if scum knows the mason (which i think they prob do given the math) maybe we should also?

[TheTrollie]

yes, he neighborized MT, but his partner neighborized someone else.

then last night they neighborized 2 people.

from a non-neighbor-town perspective, unless BB and his partner nailed town 4-for-4, there is at least 1 scum in the PT who knows who the other mason is.

i am starting to think they should claim today

[TheTrollie]

I'll let them talk in the PT and theyll make the final decision but there is a scenario where we are in lylo tomorrow AND scum have control of the neighborhood pt and can force a mislynch.

If the claims happen today, scum isn't able to coordinate a fake claim gambit pushing us into a 1v1 situation in lylo. If we lynch town today, tomorrow we have 4 town left, 3 scum and a neighborhood of 2-4 depending on what goes down. all it takes is 1 scum in that PT for all 3 scum to be able to coordinate claims that would put us in a bad situation come D4.

Claiming the neighborhood today just gives town the same info that scum might already have. if BB+co did well and the neighborhood is 4 town, claiming doesn't do much anyway, other than to minimize the 1 in 5 chance that the non-neighbor townie gets lynched.

I really think it's the right move

[TheTrollie]

I'm not sure I see the benefit of a neighborhood claim. I get the idea that if scum know the mason we should too, but I don't see how a neighborhood claim without the mason claiming helps.

Because tomorrow, in LYLO, scum can coordinate a fabricated fake/counterclaim to the town-neighbors and it'll be up to us to figure out who is telling the truth or lose the game.

There is no risk that scum controls the neighborhood claim now because (a) if they do then it divulges multiple scum (whoever cooporates in the fake) (b) we know there is a mason and we know that at least one other neighbor can confirm the mason.

We don't need the mason outed now necessarily, but we DO need to know who is in the neighborhood to prevent a scum-controlled neighborhood from forcing us into a 1-v-1 in lylo

[TheTrollie]

Because tomorrow, in LYLO, scum can coordinate a fabricated fake/counterclaim to the town-neighbors

The neighbors aren't confirmed town though.

Exactly. the neighborhood in Lylo with us knowing it exists and BB dead. the neighborhood is more likely to be benefiting scum rn then town.

we cant confirm any claims tomorrow when it matters - unless we lynch scum today

[TheTrollie]

id vote gerain, Bambi, mala, or idanny today - sorta would like to keep mala around but like - still not convinced that slot is town.

i guess id vote outside of those but the rest of the players im feeling are prob town

[TheTrollie]

sorry I've been swamped at work lately

I will get to this tonight. Did anyone get around to checking bob's scum meta? If not, I can do it later

Did you ever do this? Bob's last post strikes me as literally the same shit Bob was up to D1 w the "partners with" thing

[TheTrollie]

@bob - I am not totally following you...

You say if you were scum you would have killed BB over MT. Why would scum-bob have obviously killed BB but scum-anyone else would obviously not kill BB?

[TheTrollie]

i think bambi is scum.

bob's posts are really town

but i also think gerain could be scum so i dont like that their on that wagon along with mavs who people are scumreading. so i sorta dont wanna vote there

[TheTrollie]

oops, i misread
CSF and Bob are on the bambi wagon not gerain and mavs

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: bambi

L-2

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:

nvm i feel like i have to re-read. bambi isnt my strongest scumread.
but i do have a gut feeling

[TheTrollie]

oh this is very fun (the VC - and seeing that im the only one not voting)

So - I thin Bob is town, and a mixture of my townread's scumreads and my own scumreads basically make up his entire wagon which is nice to know and makes me feel good about those reads.

I have been townreading mavs since d1 and maybe I have to re-asses, idk...

and then there's mala who is voting gerain. hmm.

[TheTrollie]

if you are on the bob wagon you are either
(a) someone i think is scum or
(b) someone I don't necessarily think is scum but who someone I think is town thinks is scum.

I'm really down for a bambi lynch today - i was down with that d1 too.

Allo/Id what is the mavs case?

[TheTrollie]

Ok i dig it VOTE: mavsfan

I also dig bambi 4 today and then the other scum is prob gerain/mala

[TheTrollie]

i have no idea what gerain is talking about

[TheTrollie]

gerain/mavs/bambi prob

[TheTrollie]

I think you guys are prob right on Bambi. As for the final one, prob Geraintm.

@bob4131: you should vote bob3141

this is a mindfuck of a post if mavs is scum...

Mavs - I would hypothetically vote with you, but not on bob. So if you want to avoid your own lynch, I suggest finding another target

[TheTrollie]

I'm sorry for not seeing it earlier - Mavs is def scum.

Bob can i convince you to get on this wagon?

[TheTrollie]

That's so fun mala bc I'm leaning you being scum if one of them is town... And after mavs post agreeing with my reads I think it's likely that one of them is town so....

[TheTrollie]

gerain/mavs/bambi prob

I find myself starting to agree with this more and more.

I’d be down for this.

Although I’m leaning trollie if one of these reads are town though

Mala actually prob scum.

Why would I out two of my partners in my scumreads post. Makes no sense for her to respond to MY reads saying if one of them is town I'm the other scum.

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:

I have to look at this again.

I think mavs is scum. But I do not like the mala/idanny push against me coming out of nowhere

[TheTrollie]

This specifically is the exchange I don't like with idanny. Its almost like scum pt decided they needed to push me and idanny was like "OK" even though he literally was the one directing the behavior he was criticizing from me.

Allo/Id what is the mavs case?

@Trollie, Re read the game and you will see why I'm voting Mav's.

Ok i dig it VOTE: mavsfan

I also dig bambi 4 today and then the other scum is prob gerain/mala

I'm sorry for not seeing it earlier - Mavs is def scum.

Bob can i convince you to get on this wagon?

Trollie is just messing with my head, His post just get scummier and scummier, It feels like a Trollie bambi team, he thought Bambi was the lynch then realized it wasn't and un voted. Now suddenly Mav's is his strongest scum read?

[TheTrollie]

Allo - I completely agree with you here. I still feel like you might have caught scum in mavs, but here is my concern. I believe scum is in this group:

- mavs
- gerain
- bambi
- Mala
- iDanny

But I cannot figure out based on the interactions of those three players where the logical team is.

Deeper dive (I'll have to go through and re-read for clarity later but this is just what went down from my memory):

- iD pushes me to re-assess my mavs read, I bite
- I vote Mavs, and post my believe if a mavs/gerain/bambi team
- Mavs AGREES with my assessment, but subs out himself for bob (i.e. mavs believes scum = bob/bambi/gerain) *this is where my reads started to get fucked up. If mavs is scum (which I still believe(d) to be true), suggesting that his reads are also bambi/gerain is a mindfuck...hard to decifer what that means about bambi/gerain if mavs is lynched and does flip scum - couldn't imagine both of {Bambi/Gerain} would be his partners

- Then MALA (note - also on the list above/a slot i've never given up on thinking could be scum) ALSO AGREES with my reads. What's scummy about her post though is that she says, of MY reads, that if one of the three of {mavs/bambi/gerain} is scum, it probably is that I (TROLLIE) am scum. I was literally just reconing with the idea that scum-mavs would buddy with me against both of his scum-partners, and now MALA is suggesting that she thinks I am bussing both of my partners. Don't like that one bit.

- then, iDanny jumps on this to call me scum for changing my mind on mavs, when I literally only changed my mind on mavs BECAUSE OF MY BACK-AND-FORTH WITH IDANNY.

- then Gerain posts a wall on me but whatever...I don't agree with his case but he doesn't loop anyone else in so I'm less concerned with that.

So now I'm reconning with what to do with the layering on of all of these "scumreads" by people who are on my scumlist - it's really hard to figure out where the overlapping reads are bussing/buddying and where they are genuine.

And then after I'm through thinking about all of that, I have to return to the fact that iDanny was the first on the mavs wagon today, and other than him, no one on my possible scum list has touched that wagon...so I really think that is a good call - but then i have to recon with these mindfucks posts to figure it all out

[TheTrollie]

OH - now I just scrolled up and the bob wagon is mavs/gerain/bambi - so yeah I don't think that is the team.

I think at most 1 of {gerain/bambi} is scum.

If I had to go out on a limb here, I'd say mavs is scum, and his partners are either (a) {Mala/iDanny} or (b) one of {Mala/iDanny} and one of {Gerain/Bambi}

I think I want to vote mavs today.

I might be too inside of it to analyze it well but it feels like what just went down was that scum sees mavs going down, decides to clutter the fuck out of the me/allo supported list of scumteam, and then move in to get me roped into the picture. The whole sudden shift from pressure on mavs to pressure on me just seems so orchestrated. Forced pushes from Mala and iDanny and I cannot buy that both of those are from town. MAYBE 1 of the 2 but neither attempt to pressure me had any legitimacy behind it.

Maybe I'm just OMGUSing? anyone else see that as scum-PT orchestrated?

[TheTrollie]

- Then MALA (note - also on the list above/a slot i've never given up on thinking could be scum) ALSO AGREES with my reads. What's scummy about her post though is that she says, of MY reads, that if one of the three of {mavs/bambi/gerain} is scum, it probably is that I (TROLLIE) am scum. I was literally just reconing with the idea that scum-mavs would buddy with me against both of his scum-partners, and now MALA is suggesting that she thinks I am bussing both of my partners. Don't like that one bit.

Mala said if one of them is town, you're scum, not if one of them is scum. Also she didn't say that the other two would be your buddies. It's possible she meant that if one of them is town, another or both of the others would also be town. As such, I'm not willing to scumread her off that interaction. In any case, you're right that it's probably not you with two of the people in that list. However, I think it could be you, one of the people listed, and someone else.

This was a typo - i meant that mala said that if one of them were town. But, I think your analysis is misreading, let me find that post again.

(also i have questions about this spreadsheet but we'll get there in a second)

[TheTrollie]

gerain/mavs/bambi prob

I find myself starting to agree with this more and more.

I’d be down for this.

Although I’m leaning trollie if one of these reads are town though

I guess allo, you are technically right..

But i don't like the idea that if ANY ONE of someone's reads are town it means that person is scum. and because of that I assume Mala meant she thinks I can fit in this group.

Note she quotes your post allo, not my original one - I think it could have slipped her mind that I was the one to post it and she was just trying to get in on me. Has mala like, ever, called me scum before this?

[TheTrollie]

i dont like any of those scumteams since there is only 1 that doesn't include me and i'm not totally convinced that team makes sense (mala/bambi/idanny)

Why can't it be mala/mavs/idanny or mala/bambi/mavs?

I think the idanny vote on mavs today could be bussing. That said, I do agree with Allo's assessment of idanny and I think idannys post above about my case on him is good. just fyi - what happened is that I hadn't really thought of mavs-scum bc i had a gut townread on him early D1, i was hoping danny or allo might explain away the gut read with some good case, but when it was clear I wasn't going to be getting that ("reread the game and youll get it") I did reread the game and really do now see mavs-scum + i HATE that his defense has just been to say "vote bob" - that is why i switched my vote onto mavs.

[TheTrollie]

I agree with you there Allo (that mavs should be now/next)

but bob brings up a good point, there were wagons to join other than mala earlier, but Mavs was TOTALLY UNWILLING to vote for any of them. I asked him to switch his vote somewhere and then maybe i'd join him several times, and he was like "nah its bob"

why now is he cool with a switch? esp when he said he thought it was {bob, gerain, bambi}?

Need to figure out the answer to that question but i do like a mala wagon.

i mean, an explanation for the above could be that mavs is actually town. I don't think scum-mavs hops on the {gerain/bambi} push just to hop off? idfk. mavs is very hard to read right now in terms of where his thinking is whether town or scum

[TheTrollie]

So the new list:

Mala+Bambi+Trollie
Mala+Bambi+Dany
Trollie+bob+Dany
Trollie+bob+Mala
Mala+Bambi+mavs

This means that Mala is in the most possible teams. The last team is actually the most likely as well, given both the Bambi+mavs and the Mala+Bambi interactions. I was certainly wrong to write it off.

VOTE: Malakittens

Good enough for me!

Vote: malakittens

This is certainly an odd response to a post in which I'm suggesting mavs is likely scum as well. I feel like no matter what Mala flips I want to lynch mavs next based off of this.

Mavs is only on 1 of ur lists - 1 where Mala is scum. If you are putting so much faith in ur lists why are you suggesting we lynch mavs next?

[TheTrollie]

VOTE: mala

wanted allo and mavs to respond before voting

[TheTrollie]

that said - I do agree with bob here that mavs looks like a squirming scum happy to vote wherever - I just don't get why he wasn't like that when i gave him the opportunity to do so earlier.

[TheTrollie]

Mavs is literally driving me insane. It's like another person took over the slot all of the sudden.

Couldn't pry him off his Bob vote with a crowbar and now he's hopping around like a madman

[TheTrollie]

I just reviewed my scum-read interactions again...I think it is very possible that scum-strat right now is:

"we're crushing. town is screwed if they don't hang us up today, let's just bus the shit out of each other to cause crazy WIFOM tomorrow no matter what happens D3"

Because that is a very plausible strategy for scum at this point, I don't buy allo's assessment of the interactions. I think it is very possible that it is a Mala/Bambi/Mavs, Mala/Danny/Mavs, or maybe even Danny/Mavs/Bambi...there are others but I'm just suspecting most of those are not on Allo's list bc they violate the assumptions hes working with. You could I guess sub Gerain in for bambi in most of those - but like I said back in that wall of interactions, of my scumreads, gerain is the one not really adding to the WIFOM madness I am feeling. Bambi isnt either but thats cuz bambi isn't posting which is a whole other issue.

That is just to say - I don't buy that you can eliminate the possibility that scum is tactically putting us in a situation where we are fucked in the head after one of them flip, and mass bussing.

[TheTrollie]

God we should have lynched bambi d1

mavs wtf

[TheTrollie]

Mala/Mavs/Bambi?

I'll vote mavs...theres a reason his wagon cant get to 4 today.

[TheTrollie]

I really do not understand those of you (gerain) who's entire scum case on me for 2 days has been "trollie is willing to vote any of his scum reads, hes obvscum"

[TheTrollie]

I'm not following other people's leads - I'm being a team-player. When I don't see the momentum to lynch or pressure one of my scum-reads, I am perfectly happy to run up a vote on another that other players have support for. I've never once (other than my switch on mavs today based on my re-read) sheeped someone to vote someone not on my list of scum

[TheTrollie]

anyway - here's my thought

Mavs was voting bob and wouldn't let up about it even when the wagon on him was hot pressed. the randomly votingn all over the place feels like scum to me. It got pressure off him, and has continued to work, and if he does get lynched and flip scum it creates WIFOM nonsense - i am pretty sure he only started mass vote hoping after I brought up the idea that his all over the place reads makes a scum-mav flip difficult to process.

Mala I also think is scum - I never liked that slot, and I think the idea of quoting my scum-reads and then saying that if one of them is town, it means I'm scum is scummy whether she was trying to suggest I was bussing my scum-mates or lining up a trollie-vote if any of the three flipped town.

Bambi has given us three days of bullshit reasons why she can't participate.

If we had the ability to fuck up without going to lylo i'd vote to kill bambi now. but we can wait since we are never going to find out anything about her with this play either way. so mavs or mala is the lynch today. I think my vote is on mala rn ill UNVOTE: until a vc and then figur out what im gonna do

[TheTrollie]

I dont like how defensive ger is against tjhe drew wall

i think drew is right though in mavs/bambi being scum - I think the third is Mala. I bob in the third slot is really a nutso take but I have used the same logic to argue for the mavs/idanny team and mavs {gerain/bambi} team before so I do buy it. I just read bobs posts as town

[TheTrollie]

I am going to hammer the next time i open up this tab unless mavs has something other than voting to say

[TheTrollie]

fuck it - I'm trigger happy and didn't realize that both of the people who have posted since that abhorent claim are already on the wagon

VOTE: mavs

[TheTrollie]

oh fuck drew sorry i didnt see u ask no one else to hammer

[TheTrollie]

I only skimmed - there's a lot of shit pointed at me - i might go through and give more complete answers when i have time later but for now - Drew, i didn't see ur post until after I hammered, which is why i already apologized for not letting you hammer. I was trigger happy bc mavs was so obvs scum at that point.

Bob - I see ur stuff about mavs views in the mala slot v. me argument of D1 - it is a good point. Mala may still be scum but I do need to re-read that. Curious what other wagons there were at that point. Also did mavs ever place a vote with me D1 or was he just fueling the fire? I'll look into all of that but it is a great call.

the wagon on me is bull - gerain and mala i think it is...interesting. I have to re-read drew's argument for why I am scum but I am like 90% sure that there is at least 1 scum in Mala/Gerain. Prob Mala (though i do need to do the reading above) bc i think she voted second and it is idiotic for town to put anyone on L-2 with 2 scum left within the first 5 posts of D4.

Also mala, I thought I was scum if one of mavs/gerain/bambi was town. mavs was scum - so we should be closer to a townread on me by your initial logic no?

[TheTrollie]

.

WHO DO YOU THINK IS SCUM?


Fourth time you have refused to answer

I'm not refusing to answer, I'm just not putting your name and bolding it.

I took this as my casual game RN, but I do legit think it's going well.

Here's my contribution today, believe it or not: I got neighbor'd by Molla last night as promised. He left a post detailing his final readslist as well. I know the other Mason and am not giving up any hints on who it is unless they directly ask me to confirm them today. I also basically know for sure the other Mason has the same readslist.

There you go Bob. Happy?

I missed this until ISOing bambi just now

(1) can u share BBs reads on the group? I'm curious

(2) how did you know Allo had the same readlist?

[TheTrollie]

GET THAT VOTE OFF OF ME DREW OR AT LEAST ONE OF YOU - THAT PUTS ME AT L-1!!!

[TheTrollie]

Gera take your vote off me now - You can still want to lynch me, fine. But Don't leave me at L-1 before hearing anyhting from me on a critical day - that was not a good call.

I think Mala is scum - re-read the mavs/mala-slot interactions and I certainly cannot rule out the possibility that it was bussing. In fact, I can read it as bussing very easily. Mavs was very wishy washy on those interactions - he wanted to be involved in the discourse but he never really committed much. Plus, I hate overthinking this interaction when I have a good read there

VOTE: mala

The third I am struggling with.

Bambi don't forget you promised me we could talk about ur neighbor claim yesterday!

[TheTrollie]

*from yesterday

[TheTrollie]

third scum gotta be gerain or idanny...maybe bob - My gut on mavs from d1 was wrong so I'm willing to re-evaluate bob. The Mavs v. bob interaction interesting from yesterday. i'll take a look at that too.

[TheTrollie]

My reads aren't very helpful but barring a really good explanation from drew as to why he voted me - I totally have to second guess my drew town read as well.

[TheTrollie]

most likely idanny or gerain tho - just re-read end of day vote counts. They are both (i think) on all of them...

[TheTrollie]

I was tunneling on your slot before you replaced in - i happened to also catch scum

[TheTrollie]

hi - If i were you i'd ask the same question about no hammer but there's a difference when there are only 2 scum left (and possibly both already on me) and also I slammed mavs because he had already claimed and the claim was utter bullshit. The only thing that would have stopped me from hammering was if I had realized you had asked me not to. Also mavs wasn't slammed quickly I feel like? idk

Anyway neither here nor there.

I keep going back to the origin of the wagon on me which was this madness that started once mavs was REALLY feeling pressure yesterday. From my memory (and ill check unless someone else does), the events are that (a) iDanny pushes me to join the mavs wagon (b) I join the mavs wagon (c) Mala starts to sow a trollie-scum theory (d) iDanny hops on the theory (e) Gerain joins the bunch (though i think it was gerain who has maintained some scum-read on me for a while now)

It seems to me that at least one of Mala/iDanny/Gerain is scum. That was too good of an opportunity to sidetrack a scum-wagon with real momentum. And it was working for a while. If scum DIDN'T get behind my push at that point it would have been a missed opportunity.

What I also really don't love is that...then we lynch mavs, he flips scum, and somehow I'm still the vote today even though I was the COUNTER-wagon to mavs yesterday. It just doesnt add up.

so i guess that's all i am getting from you bambi? or r u gonna tell us what those reads were and why you know allo had the same reads?

[TheTrollie]

I wont vote for bambi or drew today so we wont be on the same wagon lol.

I do deny the progression was unclear. I said I don't see it, I asked for a case. You said, in essence, "fuck that - just re-read the game with the idea that mavs may be scum and you will see my point." I then did re-read, realized your point that mavs was easily scum, and voted there.

I don't think it was confirmation bias since I literally only started including you on the possible-scum train AFTER you hopped on the opportunity to wagon me against mavs. OMGUS, maybe - but def not confirmation bias.

I can see how what happened could be construed as flip flopping but it wasnt. I say "i've townread mavs from d1, can you help me understand the scum-mavs case?" you say "reread the game" and then i do and vote. If you had made a case instead of saying "reread the game" do you think that you would feel like what I did was flip flopping?

Oh - i just re-looked and i guess gera is the only one who voted me. you and mala just said I could be scum. I admit that I'm less convinced now.

ok - at the risk of being called a flip-flopper again --

iDanny

what is the scum-drew case? I had such a townread on CSF that I haven't really even considered the possibility of drew being scum but I'll entertain it. why is your vote there?

[TheTrollie]

alright whatever - we're not getting anywhere.

I find myself in the unfortunate situation of having to just wait for bambi to say anything of content whatsoever and I'll sheep that. I am p sure she is town. useless, but town.

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE: until then

[TheTrollie]

Do people realise no activity works to scum’s favour here?

[TheTrollie]

Danny is on L-1 for those counting.

Aight so since this game has slowed down to nada the neighborhood has decided it is best to claim and let you in on our little secrets to juice up the conversation.

I was wrong yesterday on how the neighborhoods worked. Allo and BB created two separate neighborhoods. I got recruited for Allo's last night. The night prior Allo recruited Mala. Night 1, allo recruited CSF/Drew.

I knew just from BB's posts that Allo was the other Mason, but other than people who figured that out, the only people who knew for a fact before N3 were Drew, Mala and Bambi. Allo also seemed to feel like he made a mistake by recruiting Mala, which is why i started there today.

So let's chat.

[TheTrollie]

How am I L-1? Only drew and bambi are voting me

oops sorry I misread the last VC

[TheTrollie]

the game feels like drew and trollie are under pressure together and their posts are as not as well reasoned as the others who are posting in the game.
I would rather trollie lynched today then drew, but I don't think enough people agree with me on that.
but we need bambi and mala to join in the game

is it possible ur getting that sense because we are both in communication in the neighborhood PT and not because we are scum?

[TheTrollie]

Killing allo confirmed BBs claim

I think tweet was a good N

[TheTrollie]

oops
...N1 kill

Ppl were suspect of BB until D2

[TheTrollie]

I could be convinced to vote mala, idanny or Bob today

[TheTrollie]

Its just hard to learn anything new with this level of activity. I'm trying to narrow down the targets that we can maximize the chance that weve got scum.

I'm close to that on mala/idanny. thats where i'm happiest voting. If the majority really wanted to go after bob though, I can see myself being convinced to vote there.

I'm really just feeling useless when my strongest scumreads arent posting so I'm feeling like lets just get through the day.

I guess my reads rn are:

town: Bambi
prob-town: Drew, Gera (not sure on either of these but their activity makes me like them. I'm coming around on gera he's playing fairly townie )

neutral: bob

Scummy: Mala/idanny

[TheTrollie]

I'm honestly feeling really good about both gera and bambi right now.

[TheTrollie]

Drew could be scum but its too much of a risk. I'd rather try to find someone else and depending on that flip revisit drew tomorrow.

bob is less of a risk - i havent really updated my read on him since D1 but would be willing to if there is a case there (just like i did for mavs and that worked out well)

idanny has been on my list for a beat

Mala has been on my list as well and feels like mavs/mala team makes total sense

[TheTrollie]

i guess

VOTE: mala

[TheTrollie]

yeah i guess i said that wrong - it feels like everyones said their piece and we are at a standstill. thats why there is low activity. Maybe im wrong but that is the sense i am getting

[TheTrollie]

I'll join drew on idanny

VOTE: idanny

[TheTrollie]

drew vote idanny put them on L-1 im down for that, use ur vote for something usefull

[TheTrollie]

that is just not how I play bob. I don't play to only lynch my targets. I play to lynch scum and sometimes that means focusing more on slight scum reads that a larger majority of people are willing to lynch then on my top scumread who is not getting lynched today obviously.

You guys gotta get off my ass for being willing to vote more than a single person each phase

[TheTrollie]

drew could be scum honestly. lots of huffing and puffing going on.

But bambi is town so i still like my wagon.

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:
1272 was unnecessary but also townie

Scum asking me to claim is odd here.

[TheTrollie]

aight, iDanny, let's do this again.

Can you give me the tl;dr highlight reel of drew-scum case? i'd prefer instead of having to reread the game even if u could just point to 1 or 2 of his posts or ur posts where you make the argument?

[TheTrollie]

UNVOTE:
1272 was unnecessary but also townie

Scum asking me to claim is odd here.

How

i just dont necessarily buy scum-danny is so off the cuff about asking for a claim...idk struck me as townie

[TheTrollie]

I might hammer later. I have to think.

I really think Mala is the scum here though.

A few little things do bother me about Drew. I don't like that he tried to take credit for the mavs lynch.

no one hammer drew yet, I have some questions for him for when he wakes up

[TheTrollie]

Drew read the neighborhood pt pls. Thnx

[TheTrollie]

i havent caught up but i think drew is town...

just so you all know - I was confused about the order of posts on the PT and here (I got added last night so I wasn't around to experience yesterday's pt discussion in real time) - but Drew cleared it up and i genuinely cannot fathom he is scum now.

[TheTrollie]

so now i'm very unsure

idanny was really giving me town feels before

but his wagon was exclusively town

hmm

VOTE: idanny

[TheTrollie]

bob get on this. give some intent. i know you wanna

[TheTrollie]

here comes scumpartner mala to save the day for town!

[TheTrollie]

oh - i didnt count i just looked at the last VC

bambi get back on this wagon. I think you were on to something. well, i guess you think drew is scum which explains why you dont see this like I see it which is that the idanny wagon has been predominantly town driven.

[TheTrollie]

so now i'm very unsure

idanny was really giving me town feels before

but his wagon was exclusively town

hmm

VOTE: idanny

Care to elaborate on what has changed your mind. Since giving intent

I didn't change my mind per se. I got cold feet on my read and then realized hes prob scum just based on his wagons. Today, he's consistently been pressured and voted by only three players, all of whom I believe are town. I don't buy town-iDanny doesn't get the attention of at least one scum who want's to help push through the mislynch.

In fact, I just looked at all VCs, and for

the entire game

iDanny has only eve had confirmed town (+ me, bambi or drew/CSF) on his wagon for a VC. the one exception to this was on D1 when mavs gave a long push on iDanny which actually looked interesting until you see that as soon as I said I liked iDs reads so I don't want to lynch him and then mavs said something like "yeah i agree keep it up" even though he pressed on those reads a few posts earlier

r u saying ur giving intent? I never gave intent idt - I'd love to but im pretty sure i never got the chance.


but...YOU SHOULD!

[TheTrollie]

I was working on a wall bc this mavs/iD interaction D1 is actually worth looking at but the wall isnt worth it.

If you are curious read from page 8 where mavs votes iDany to 15 where he unvotes.
the short version is just page 15 where mavs goes from poking iD on his reads to unvoting "because he likes the reads" ... after having been on iD since page 8.

So long story short - iDanny has gone through the whole game facing pressure from only players that are either confirmed town or very likely town - today it got even more apparent when it takes 4 to lynch and 3 very town players have been on his ass - i dont buy that if iDanny is town no other players would have joined bambi, drew and me

the 1 exception to the "idanys enemies have always been town" rule has been a BS push from Mavs early in D1 that fell off of the face of the earth as soon as mavs had an out to do so.

scum-iDany also explains why he was so frustrated that drew is trying to take credit for his major investment in bussing mavs yesterday. (this said if by some crazy chance iDanny flips town Drew should be the first target tomorrow. iDany is scum so no worries drew)

p-edit: bob if you agree that me and drew are town then you should also understand why it's hard to believe that town-idanny hasn't attracted more of a following outside of me, bambi, and drew...

[TheTrollie]

I'm probably dead by tomorrow whichever way this turns out...

3 votes on me (Gera, mala, idany)
3 votes on iDany (drew, Trollie, Bambi)

There's nearly no chance we are both town at this point - we wouldn't be in this standstill if this was town v. town w 2 scum left.

So either I get lynched now or iDany gets lynched, flips scum, and I get NKed.

I maintain that you can tell which of us is scum by looking at the wagons. How could ID be town if there isn't a single player who we have a single scum-vibe from on that wagon?

bob

you seem to agree with that logic.

Bob - hopefully you can see what's going on here and push idany to a claim.

[TheTrollie]

I guess i'll ignore information that might end up being crucial to winning this game too and just stop reading ur posts.

I'd like to talk to bob.

Actually I'd also like to talk to Mala...
Mala, Who do you think is scum on the iDany wagon? Me? very curious...

[TheTrollie]

I think drew is scum.

I don't buy that none of bambi, me, and drew are scum. bambi and i are not. that leaves drew.

if not then its bob. coluld be both of them. 100% there is scum in {bob/drew}

[TheTrollie]

im very surprised i dont have a vote on me yet btw

[TheTrollie]

...its possible there are 3 scum remaining?

i dont think so...

[TheTrollie]

Bob I literally said in that post that I was sheeping bb

Bambi - I get that but in my mind a single vote at the start of the day wouldn't have been awful. Putting someone at l-2 would have been but yeah I get it

I just woke up ill post some shit in a sec

[TheTrollie]

I'm really mindfucked right now. I was so certain idanny was scum and when he flipped town my mind immediately went to drew-scum. I still think that might be correct but given the situation i'm really torn, and I don't want to make the same mistake twice of confirming a read based on what ended up being faulty vote count analysis logic.

It's really hard for me to believe that {bambi,trollie,drew} (the people pushing the iDanny lynch yesterday) are all town. why wouldn't scum help push through a lynch? If i'm right about that then drew is scum.

I'm starting to doubt that assumption though for 2 reasons

(a) if bob is scum then his partner could just as easily be one of {gera/mala} as it could be drew.
(b) scum could have realized that town was pushing wagons against 2 town people, and even if the team was Gera & Mala, they could hav been like "lets just sit back and watch town fuck istself over since they dont need our help today"
b doesn't seem all that likely though since yesterday could have easily ended in my lynch in which case why would both scumpartners subject themselves to being object of inquiry today.

I'm curious what other people think.

Regardless of how you read me, bambi, and/or drew, do you see a world where all three of us are town based on idanny flipping town?

or is that just not possible?

[TheTrollie]

No lynch is interesting...

I wonder if we should mass claim today, and then no lynch.

That way we put scum in a tricky position on who to kill and go into lylo tomorrow with more intel?

[TheTrollie]

why wouldnt we claim now to force scum to either confirm a PR (and all the info they provide) or go after a VT leaving a PR alive?? either way town wins and gets more intel from the NK than if we just no lynch right now.

[TheTrollie]

no one will explain why they are against a mass claim?

[TheTrollie]

how can they use it against us. they have to choose whose narative to confirm.
duh...

[TheTrollie]

it makes zero sense to me if we are forcing ourselves into a lylo situation why we wouldn't claim today to force scum to confirm a claim before heading into lylo. They either kill someone who claimed VT (saving us a PR) or they kill someone who was a PR (confirming all of their night actions).

I just typed out my full claim but then I realized I shouldnt be the only one to claim since enough people think I am scum that I will likely not get NKd tonight. SO i guess i wont loneclaim but I wont vote no lynch without a mass claim. I don't want to go into lylo with more limited access to intel than we have today.

[TheTrollie]

bob is giving me scumvibes today

Scum is 2 of:
{Mala/Gera}
Drew
Bob

I don't think it can be both mala & gera, and similarly i think it has to be at least one if not both of bob & Drew

[TheTrollie]

scum will probably kill bambi or mala or gera tonight

They could target me since I'm making a stink about PR intel i guess

Don't hammer the NO LYNCH yet...i may claim before the end of the day irl

[TheTrollie]

I’m a disloyal rolestopper. I targeted Bambi N2 and she was neighborized that night by BB. Unless i was roleblocked (mavs was a 1-shot rb but I doubt he used it on me N2), Bambi couldn’t have been neighborized if she were scum.
N1 I targeted Allo
N2 - Bambi (as mentioned)
N3 - iDany
N4 - Bob

OK goodnight. I am not gonna hammer unless everyone claims but i'm done until then.

[TheTrollie]

He was simple, I'm disloyal. I think those actually balance out pretty fairly.

but also i have no incentive to be lying here. I am just worried about dying without having let you know how to interpret my flip.

[TheTrollie]

see - just when i was thinking it was bob and not drew he does this...

my logic on the iD Lynch still stands - no way Bambi, drew, me and bob could have all been town if iD was town. I think we can narrow down to bambi and drew even - why would neither of Bambi or drew have left open the opportunity to swing onto my wagon and Lynch me instead?

Bambi is town (from my claim), so Drew is probscum (spare a bob/mala team cuz im leaning town on gera)?

Other issues with Drew

(1) iDanys argument that drew was trying to steal credit for mavs now makes him def look scummy since id was legit town
(2)

this is important

I join the PT yesterday and soft claim / say I know Bambi is town since she was neighborized. Drew press me on the PT to make the case in the game thread. Then Drew votes for me in the game thread. Thats where I freaked out both in game and on the PT bc I thought he put me on L-1. But still, why the fuck would drew vote me in the game thread immediately after learning that I am claiming PR with intel in the PT. I pushed him on that in the PT and he said basically “I did it bc I think ur scum and ur at L-1 and havent been hammered yet I wonder why” which he also said in the game thread. That really looks bad. He’s making the case and pushing a Lynch on someone he’s just learned in a PT is a PR with intel that hasn’t been posted in the game thread. Not good.

drew/bob is my gut rn

[TheTrollie]

mala if ur town you saw that interaction too and know I'm right here...

[TheTrollie]

bob is scum.

prob drew maybe mala

I still think we mass claim and then vote no lynch.

[TheTrollie]

and yeah im still basically just not shaking my d1 mala read so realistically im saying bob and drew

[TheTrollie]

I've sorta tuned out now that I claimed. I guess I'll catch up but I had hoped more than just Bob would join my claim party before end of day.

I think no vote is the way to go unless someone has a guilty verdict or reason to believe my night actions implicate anyone... Which we also couldn't know unless ppl agree to claim today

[TheTrollie]

im confused. everyone is claiming VT but me?

What about mala?

[TheTrollie]

My roll has NOTHING to do with my interactions with my neighborhood.

Bambi is in a different neighborhood than me.

I'm gonna target uhhh...drew tonight.

hypothetically my role is useless bc everyone else claimed VT but whatever. thats what im gonna do.

[TheTrollie]

I'll vote no lynch soon

[TheTrollie]

Its just that evens are better for scum. And scum choose to no kill so lynch today is actualy in their interest.

While nolynch atleast forces scum to remove one player.


drew are you saying you dont want to no lynch

Not necessarily. Just not sure what it achieves.

We’re basically giving scum a free kick with no trail to follow for a day.

It doesn’t seem wise but I accept the logic.

Today is mylo. There are 6 players left (4 town, 2 scum most likely). We have a 2/3 (66%) chance of lynching town and losing the game.
If we no lynch we go into tomorrow with 5 left (3 town, 2 scum). We will have a 3/5 (60%) chance of lynching town and losing the game.

Our odds are better tomorrow. Thats why we no lynch.

[TheTrollie]

My roll has NOTHING to do with my interactions with my neighborhood.

Bambi is in a different neighborhood than me.

I'm gonna target uhhh...drew tonight.

hypothetically my role is useless bc everyone else claimed VT but whatever. thats what im gonna do.

your claimed role is disloyal rolestopper.

We have two roles that it can stop. they were the twin mason/neighbourizers

If you targted the same player as one of the masons and that player was scum. The masons action woudl fail. If town the neighbourhood increases, creating a clear

Thus its an indirect cop. That is enabled by the two masons


were you in allo neighbourhood. And what was your read on teh players in that hood?

Yes but he died the night i was neighborized

trollie when did you figure out that allo was a mason?

when bb claimed mason.

[TheTrollie]

My early game strategy was to only target town. That way later in the game we could do exactly what we did and figure out via interactions whether we can confirm anyone's alignment.

It made no sense to me to target scum knowing that if I did i would prevent a cop or vig from successfully targeting scum.

[TheTrollie]

i only wanted to target town. I thought allo was town. I targeted allo. I'm not sure what else you want from me?

[TheTrollie]

no. My rolestop DIDNT work on bambi. She got neighborized.

[TheTrollie]

Bob - I didn't misunderstand my role

a disloyal rolestopper can benefit scum more than help town imo. If you target town, nothing happens, if you target scum, you prevent anyone from investigating or killing them. So you have to target people you think are town so that you don't fuck up a cop or vig but also can sit on intel for late in the game (as is CLEARLY the situation here)

[TheTrollie]

Gera why would we keep this going on and on?

Scum thinks we're gonna lynch town today. Otherwise they would have threw in a curveball kill last night.

[TheTrollie]

For clarity, what happens if we keep no lynch/no killing? how many times does that have to happen before its a draw or theres some sort of intervention?

[TheTrollie]

Gera has been giving me strong town reads in the second half of this game. I did scumread him at the start so I can't say I'm totally against his lynch but I'm fairly comfortable with reading him as town right now.

At this point the only way you can see him as town is to go all WIFOM on him. If he's scum - good for him. Simultaneously pushing a no lynch and a no NK strat....

It's possible but I don't buy it.

you know whats interesting though...now that I am thinking about who that leaves left...it could be mala/drew. And actually...stay tuned I gotta find it...

[TheTrollie]

I'm rereading the Neighborhood. One of Allo's posts mentioned that Bambi knew who BB had left a note for (which she acknowledged she did) and that if Allo ended up dead, that either mala or Bambi would be the likely killers.

Neither mala nor trollie have posted in there since.

I would like to know why.

This post rubbed me the wrong way. And at first I thought I was just reacting to the fact that drew was lightly tossing some skepticism my way but I think its because it fits into this pattern of behavior where Drew's description of what happened and then what actually happened is inconsistent when it comes to the PT.

I haven't posted in the PT since we fucked up the idanny lynch mainly because (a) now that we've outed ourselves here the PT isnt as useful (b) I am decently confident at least one of mala/drew is scum and (c) drew and mala are super inactive on it.

This notion that I stopped posting in the PT since allo was killed is utter bs. Allo neighborized me the night he died. I didn't get a chance to post until after then and then I quickly became the most active person in the PT within the first few irl days after having been included. It's not me who has been very quiet there, its actually mala/drew.

I've written off the chance of a mala/drew team based on a few interactions in the PT. I was pretty sure about them not being a team together but I need to re-read those interactions and see if they could have been fabricated/bussing.

[TheTrollie]

and re-thinking the allo kill, at the time I thought it wasn't very enlightening because I think it was obvious that he was the other mason, but now a flip or two later the only scum team that would have not had confirmation of allo's role would have been bob/gera.

Bob/gera isn't feeling like a very likely team for a bunch of other reasons, so that does bring me back to the idea that at least one of mala/drew has to be scum.

[TheTrollie]

"I posted last" does not equal "you haven't posted since the Allo flip"

[TheTrollie]

I'd like to lynch Drew or mala today

[TheTrollie]

Actually, important question I guess.

@Mod: Will the game end in a draw during the day phase or night phase?

Because if it ends in day or night, they both give different benefits out.

It ends after the sixth phase without a death. So as of now, the game will end in a draw at the end of day 7 if there is no death.

Sixth consecutive phase?

[TheTrollie]

I'd like to lynch Drew or mala today

Would you prefer to do that, or wait until a NK to help eliminate someone and then vote tomorrow?
Like, I am two thirds of the way with you on your vote placement.

I guess we can go another round and see what happens as long as the rule is 6 consecutive days.

It's just gonna suck to have to wait a night phase, wake up to no NK, and go through this all again tomorrow. Esp if we feel good about someone now.

[TheTrollie]

@trollie
I am assuming you want to lynch within the mala/drew/bob group, is that right?

yes but really mala/drew and really in the

Drew
Mala
Bob

order

bob's response to my push on him yesterday sorta struck me as town.

I am like - fairly confident that at least one of Drew/Bob is scum. I am also fairly confident that at least one of Drew/Mala is scum. so like - Drew is likely scum.

I am down to vote there. I am also down to no lynch, however I worry that we will wind up tomorrow in the exact same place we are currently in and somehow fuck it up.

I'm feeling good on drew and would like to vote there.

Drew, No Lynch, Mala, Bob <- that is my lynch preference order

[TheTrollie]

push was the wrong word. just scumread

[TheTrollie]

I can’t tell if you delibately misunderstood his post or if it was accidental

who was this to and about?

[TheTrollie]

bambi ur wrong

why the fuck would i come up with a crazy ass claim verifying your alignment as scum?

[TheTrollie]

bambi ur wrong

why the fuck would i come up with a crazy ass claim verifying your alignment as scum?

She’s scum is she? I thought she was town, Troll-doll?

oh yeah good point. verifying as town*

[TheTrollie]

ur fucking kidding me...

[TheTrollie]

bob im drunk right now so mauybe thats it but wtf r u talking about

[TheTrollie]

but also bambi ur getting had