Micro 932: A Normal Blitz - Game Over

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: shiki

[humaneatingmonkey]

Shiki - first non-RVS with an 'eh' reason. good questions, but that's not what makes town. towncreds for meta effort though. i'm not sure if scum goes to the game and says "well im gonna research their meta and make fake townreads based on that, so i can be seen as town."

Datisi - his posts in the early game feels like he's trying too hard to appear like he's trying.
bugspray - said something weird, but that's not what makes scum.
Question to both Datisi and bugspray: Why is Luca Blight town?

Luca Blight - withholding my read.

Holden - not answering's Madoka's questions properly, but could just be tired.
Question: You really think Datisi was pocketing you?

Madoka - Good questions, but that's not what makes town.
Hiraki - i'm getting some scum-cornered vibes.

George Bailey - pops in and out, had the opportunity to hunt a bit, diasppointed that he didn't. not getting a lot of "excited to know more about the town" vibes from him.

How many scum do you think we have in this setup? Is there a possibility of third-party factions?

[humaneatingmonkey]

hot take: luca blight is town

True, but why do you think so?

lamist

this is a bit lamist

[humaneatingmonkey]

but bugspray, you agree that you townread him, so whats up

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Datisi

let's build this wagon fast

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hiraki - i'm getting some scum-cornered vibes.

Who on earth is cornering me? My scumread?

i don't know what to tell you man. you just give me defensive vibes. don't worry about it. go ahead and play.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah. i scanned the game. didn't think too hard since we're in page 5 with literally no incriminating information. wrote down my impressions.

but it's nice to see you get in my face.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hot take: bugs is not town

i like early reads from people because it's good information.

why is bugs not town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

but it's nice to see you get in my face.

Asking you a question is me getting in your face about something you said is getting in your face? Do you think I'm even a little intimidated?

honestly, my vibe is you're a bit defensive. which is what you're doing now. i'm not hot and bothered about it because it's non-AI in itself. but it's nice to see you react to it because that part's almost AI.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hot take: bugs is not town

i like early reads from people because it's good information.

why is bugs not town?

Hm, i was kinda hoping bugs would be the first to react. anyway. more than half their ISO feels like pure fluff and filler. 68 asks a question that has already been asked multiple times and half answered. 76 81 86 have no game content. half of 96 and 100 is justification for no content post. it all feels off.

pedit: and continuation of justifying the no content post.

what were you hoping bugs' reaction is?

so what do you think about George Bailey vs bugspray?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hiraki, what exactly am I threatening you with?
do you even scumread me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

How many scum do you think we have in this setup? Is there a possibility of third-party factions?

Small teaser! Let's ask the game about this but never actually say what I think!

you don't see the value in discussing possible setups?

[humaneatingmonkey]

How many scum do you think we have in this setup? Is there a possibility of third-party factions?

huh, now that hiraki's mentioned it. what was the purpose of this question?

RQS

[humaneatingmonkey]

A 9p normal is always 7T v 2S as far as I’m aware?

i dont know this

[humaneatingmonkey]

A 9p normal is always 7T v 2S as far as I’m aware?

I did not know this.

Hiraki, I'm getting a Datisi wagon started. I casually remarked that I'm getting a scum-tense defensive vibe from you from page 5. I think nothing of it because what's a vibe and I think Datisi is worth pursuing. But from your behavior now, see how I'm getting a defensive vibe? It's almost OMGUS. "OMG you think I'm scum!" Again, which is non-AI. Now? My read on you is you're a bit suspicious trying to make my flaccid posts seem like rockhard towering posts that screams I'm scum.

There are no solid tells from setup speculation, but it's at least better information to look back at later.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't feel comfortable changing my vote to bugs because it could also be Datisi trying to take the opportunity to make dumb answers look like scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't like his bugs read because i don't think bugs' posts are scum-indicative. meanwhile, i think datisi's early activity is scummier.
however, i do support more pressure on bugs to get him to start speaking more sense.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why are you not responding to my points that have nothing to do with whatever you just said?

it has everything to do with whatever i said. so what part about it doesn't feel like a response?

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't like his bugs read because i don't think bugs' posts are scum-indicative. meanwhile, i think datisi's early activity is scummier.
however, i do support more pressure on bugs to get him to start speaking more sense.

every time i post there are two places where my they/them pronouns are listed. in my user square area thing and the signature
Use them.

sorry, in my first language, i don't have gendered pronouns. men or women, i sometimes call 'he'.
i'm going to make mistakes again, but I'm going to try.

why do you scumread Hariki?

[humaneatingmonkey]

anyone else think i'm trying to intimidate him? personally, i'm not really even "knee deep" on this game right now. so i dont know what the hell you're talking about. if no one else is getting the 'threatening' angle, then it's just him trying to make me feel threatening and making a big deal out of it. which is scummy because he's accusing me of what he's doing all along — fabricating a scumread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

in my first language

What language is this?

Tagalog

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hiraki, you're OMGUS-ing so hard right now that I don't even know if you're just tense town or scum trying to get dirt on town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i don't like his bugs read because i don't think bugs' posts are scum-indicative. meanwhile, i think datisi's early activity is scummier.
however, i do support more pressure on bugs to get him to start speaking more sense.

This seems contradictory to me.

Can you give examples of Datisi’s scummy early activity?

Here

Datisi - his posts in the early game feels like he's trying too hard to appear like he's trying.

with the assumption that he's scum, his activity around bugs and me is consistent on the narrative. his early reads can be confident town or scum who already knows who town is. his case against bugspray does not convince me, and i think bugspray is the low-hanging-fruit right now for scum trying to take advantage.

but in all fairness to Datisi, bugspray needs to get out of RVS phase and get some skin in the game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah i'm just doing this

VOTE: Hiraki

i don't like how you're trying to pre-empt my slight scum impression on you by making it so that it's "scummy" to vote you. That's a level of OMGUS that makes more sense coming from scum.

i don't like typing, and i'd prefer if i'm not hyperactive this game. but i think i have no choice.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Not really. I was hard TRing him in that game (and was correct), but a while ago i got familiar with some of his scumgames, and eh... I'll be having trouble getting a read of Holden i think.

You often do meta research like this?

Have you researched others in the game (other than Luca)?

Interesting to see someone go straight for meta research. Especially with a very recently made account.

Generally people just do ~nothing~ while waiting for the game to start. Or at least I do nothing.

Plus there's the thought that second hand meta is not necessarily useful and can even be harmful if it leads to confbiasing. So eh.

For some reason I thought your post was much more scummer then it actually was.

Which one? 22? What gave you that impression?

I dig this.

Perhaps later. Just throwing some bait in the water. I could just not enjoy your posting style either which will make things difficult.

Could be. Hit me up anytime if you wanna jam.

This is a blitz game. If you don’t like something then fire away.

Luca, you got anything you want to fire at?

You wanna talk about it?

Comparing to the last game we played?

What's the point of this conversation? Are you going to SR him or something?

How do you usually decide if you SR someone or not? You don't talk to them?

pedit: ahh i see.

@hiraki id really like to hear your thoughts on datisi. withholding ai content like this only hurts town unless you're doing some weird galaxy brain gambit

s'there a point to asking this? multiple others asked, and he already commented it could be a style clash.

hot take: luca blight is town

hot take: luca blight is town

True, but why do you think so?

your right into the conversation no beating around the bush straight to the point behaviour. your thoughts make sense to me, and mindmeld on 74 and 77.

who are you calling lamist, bugs?

Question to both Datisi and bugspray: Why is Luca Blight town?

answered in 90

was there *any point* to you saying "lamist" there?

hot take: bugs is not town

honestly guys if you're trying to get an in-depth Datisi case, i'm not gonna be able to give it. it's just gut and i'm just trying to imagine things from his perspective and how i think i would do it if i'm scum. they're not posts but a general "vibe" of where he was coming from.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm trying to imagine that I'm Datisi, and what can I do early game to make it seem like I'm gamesolving — but really I'm actually just getting early towncred. His early questions doesn't feel like town trying to find scum. was it the winning exciting narrative that I think would yield productive discussion going in Day 1? Yes. do I strongly believe it? No.

[humaneatingmonkey]

of all the "everyone is scum" narratives, you were the most likely and most worthwhile to pursue.

Madoka, you actually had a good question that seemed like you were actually scumhunting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Fair enough. I would be more alarmed if you said a more recent time-frame

This is suspicious to me. Why would he state a more recent time if it doesn't exist?

and then you pursued that.

[humaneatingmonkey]

his questions were bad throwaways

[humaneatingmonkey]

your questions will be bad throwaways if you dont get to the point real soon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

your trying to pre-empt a vote from me by saying i'd be scum if i vote you is AI.

i'm now thinking why you had to make me look threatening and intimidating. it could be that your buddies are Datisi or bugspray, and you don't like how they're getting attention.

did i solve it? if i did, please quote this post on end game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

it's either he's diverting attention from a wagon (bugspray), or defending the person i'm trying to start a wagon on (Datisi)

"Sorry if my questions bother you, but you keep saying things that don't make sense."
Even my language? Your questions have answers now. What's on your mind?

[humaneatingmonkey]

do you have impressions or weak reads?

[humaneatingmonkey]

sup guys a lot has happened and im gonna catch up later

[humaneatingmonkey]

hello i'm gonna be active today i swear im gonna give this 6 hours today.

i'm really sorry. i had a saturday.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Part 1: Unanswered Questions
First, I'll scan the game for questions that are unanswered. I'm answering these with only the information I had before page 8. And then, I'll read the game. After that, I'll give my next batch of impressions, give my reads, and suggest what we do moving forward.

Q1: 180 - Madoka
Yes, is there anyone in particular you would like my opinion of?

No, but with all your questions at this point of the game, I would have expected that you shared what it is that you stand for. You were merely asking questions with no obvious motivations. I wanted to change that and get you to commit big to something, so we can talk about it.

Q2: 181 - Luca
Monkey, why did you want to withhold your read on me, and is there any update on that?

People were townreading you, but gave no reason why. I wanted to hear them come up with why, and then share my read with you.

By the way, my read for you was also town. Your posts have a good blend of paranoid, curious, and opinionated — it's what I'm looking for in early town reads.

Q3: 183 - shiki
my vote on luca was rvs unless you think that i think that luca's past history of rolling scum would somehow impact this game? or unless you think that i think micc is a dishonest mod (i don't)?

RVS is "I voted dummythicc because he's dummy thicc." Your RVS was not RVS — it's a real efforted stab at the other players' likelihood to be scum. I feel like scum would try to look least suspicious, and try to justify their RVS more.

Q4: 183 - shiki
what is it that makes town? and scum?

town motivation and organic behavior vs scum motivation and inorganic behavior

Q5: 183 - shiki
i found it interesting that you joined a blitz game despite your opinions on geriatric games and hyperactivity. were you hoping other players would drive the game?

it's not interesting. I literally just /all'ed Micro queue. I wanted to get back on playing again, but I wanted it to be short-time commitment so I queue'd Micro's and a Newbie.

I was not hoping other players would drive the game. I wanted to post for three hours per day, and keep it contained like that.

Q6: 183 - shiki
you have found datisi's efforts to push the game forward scummy; do you see malicious intent in this or do you simply find it to be 'aimless' as someone else stated? i am asking because you said he was doing it for towncred, but i think scum would have more of an agenda than that.

what agenda would scum have at early game other than get towncred? remember, at this point, we're just leaving RVS.

Q7: 187 - HoldenGolden
Why did you want to build the Datisi wagon over Hiraki?

Because my read on Hiraki was more of a tone impression than anything stronger, and I wanted to give him chance throughout the day. I felt like my Datisi read was more worth pursuing. That immediately changed when Hiraki was pushing me, and I found that to actually be scummy.

Part 1 ends. Part 2 starts after I finish these episodes of The Good Place.d

[humaneatingmonkey]

aaaand i binged the Good Place up until the ending.

Part 2 coming up.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HOLY FUCK i've got a 23 hours left
okay

[humaneatingmonkey]

Page 8, baby
Shiki - 183

"hiraki is repeatedly lynched as town, but not usually on day one. scumreading him but not pushing or voting him until he goaded you into it feels like setting up later actions."

and i feel like this is a forced read.

"i found it interesting that you joined a blitz game despite your opinions on geriatric games and hyperactivity. were you hoping other players would drive the game?"

these loaded questions feels like a scum-motivation is being forced on... my opinion on geriatric games?

That's my opinion on your case about me. I feel like there was nothing to pick up, but you're trying to fit it into a narrative that I'm scum. I don't think that's exactly scummy though because it's consistent with you trying to use meta-reasons the entire time. you're just wrong.

HoldenGolden - 186

"I had to stop my catch up because this post feels incredibly scummy due to the nature of being wishy washy filler. This is a lot of words ultimately to call the majority of the reads neutral or conflicted."

Is it wishy-washy? Because at page 4 or 5 of the game, I'm the only one who made myself vulnerable by forcing myself to lean on a read. If wishy-washy was the game, I wouldn't have committed on reads this early on — and just do as Madoka does. And do you know why it's uncertain? There's nothing conclusive this early in the game, so what will I be sure about?

Hiraki - 191

"Ahhh shiiiitttt deus vult mofos, he gets it"

Pocket-attempt alert. HoldenGolden's reasons aren't even your reasons. You're just happy that someone is hopping on your wagon. I feel like town would be more paranoid than this.

shiki - 199

"it means that it felt like monkey wanted to scumread you but make no real effort to push you right then, but you engaged him on his scumread to the point where he could no longer ignore it."

this is right. i could no longer ignore it. how is this scummy though?

[humaneatingmonkey]

What does this mean?

it means that it felt like monkey wanted to scumread you but make no real effort to push you right then, but you engaged him on his scumread to the point where he could no longer ignore it.

Ah, beautiful. Not sure if you're stealing but I will deem it satisfactory for the moment.

What does this mean?

it means that it felt like monkey wanted to scumread you but make no real effort to push you right then, but you engaged him on his scumread to the point where he could no longer ignore it.

Ah, beautiful. Not sure if you're stealing but I will deem it satisfactory for the moment.

i was trying to communicate the same thing here:

i am very wary of this approach to hiraki. hiraki is repeatedly lynched as town, but not usually on day one. scumreading him but not pushing or voting him until he goaded you into it feels like setting up later actions.

it is hard for me to tell whether or not people are understanding me.

no, i think you're right shiki. this pinged me too. Hiraki celebrates HoldenGolden's agreement, but is suspicious of you for having the same reasons he does? It feels like they're opening up for when I flip town and putting the blame on you later.

[humaneatingmonkey]

205 - Luca Blight
"@Datisi: ‘Contradictory’ was in reference to Monkey’s stance on Bugs - he doesn’t like your vote as Bugs hasn’t been scummy yet he approves of the pressure on Bugs."
It's not contradictory. Bugs is a Schrodinger's Cat — he could either be a town VI with shitposting tendencies or a scum lurking and getting by. more pressure means more posts from him, so we can read him more.

Page 9 bugspray seems convinced that there's scum in his wagon, but he's not really trying to figure out who.
that said, there's no use reading bugspray post-by-post, so i'm just gonna ISO him and take him as a whole.

Hot take (i'm stealing this):
Wagon stagnated because Hiraki started a wagon on me to put pressure off bugspray.

[humaneatingmonkey]

is bugspray Hiraki's buddy? can't say for sure yet. Hiraki might want to keep a "Schrodinger's Cat" to Day 2 or 3, so he can have a future mislynch.

[humaneatingmonkey]

That hiraki wagon is godawful goegr what are you doing

why

[humaneatingmonkey]

What makes you say that?

the people voting him are {bugs, monkey, george}

• monkey had some questionable posts but it's pending on what he puts out when he returns
  
• i think i've already said why i think bugs is scum, plus the vote on hiraki with no follow up even when prodded is Bad(tm)
  
• george's vote seems to come after intentional or unintentional misreps and/or misunderstandings, the hop on seems wolfy, and the fact that they don't really seem to comment on bugs which has also been a major plot point so far is not giving me a good feeling

so yeah. the wagon is horrible. if hiraki is town and all three of you are town too i'm eating my scarf.

ohhh sorry, you answered this before. yeah i'm just gonna finish reading the game before i react.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Luca Blight - town
HoldenGolden - town
Madoka - town
shiki - town?
GeorgeBailey - town?
bugspray - schrodinger's cat
Datisi - scum?
Hiraki - scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Luca, Holden, Madoka is town because pro-town actions, town motivations, and organic behaviors.

shiki is town? she projects the same pro-town actions and town motivations, but i can't see past her case against me — wherein some were forced. her role on joining my wagon with Hiraki might also mean she's scum should Hiraki flip scum.

GeorgeBaily is town? not so much pro-town actions, but he has town motivations and organic behavior. as a third player in Hiraki's wagon, he's unlikely to be his partner.

i agree with HoldenGolden that bugspray could be town, but i don't think it's a case-shut on him being town. for players like bugspray, i'd like to see their vote pattern, or rely on a PR to check their alignment (if ever).

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly, for Datisi, there's probably a perspective in which he is town — but i'm not feeling an organic town behavior from him. he lacks the paranoia that i'm looking for. i don't see why he thinks Hiraki is town, but he seems convinced to the point of offering hypotheticals that there's scum in Hiraki's wagon. he also seems to pocket people a lot.

Honestly, I'd have probably townread him if he jumped on my wagon. He's already townreading Hiraki. He thinks I'm "questionable".

from his 1v1 with bugspray, i'm not convinced he's town.
Datisi, I have a question for you:
In #115, you say bugs has a lack of content
In #220, you say bugs is just posting for the sake of posting
In #241, you say bugs is wrong about his wagon being scum-driven and he's wrong about his wagon being stagnant
In #333, you say bugs is suspiciously absent
In #349, you say bugs is illogical

these are your reasons for finding bugspray, right? because i don't think these are strong cases or exclusively scummy.
so what's your strong reason that he's the one to lynch today?

[humaneatingmonkey]

not to mention, Datisi is the perfect Hiraki scum partner

[humaneatingmonkey]

At this point, I'm convinced Hiraki is scum and reading his ISO did not change that. I just don't see the angle where he has town motivations. His behavior is also inorganic, as in I don't see town behaving that way.

His sudden jump at coloring me as "threatening and intimidating him": scummy.
His immediate clarity that I'm scum from the leading questions he has: scummy.
His

off

interaction with shiki and Holden when they joined his wagon: scummy.
His late vote on me: scummy.
His compromise on either me or George as tomorrow's lynch. Disagreement is not equal to scumreading, he confirms as much, yet he's willing to lynch George when he didn't really had reason to scumread George: scummy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

With 24 hours left, you're either going to lynch me or Hiraki. Maybe bugspray if you didn't need our vote. You're wrong to lynch me. You're right to lynch Hiraki.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you're gonna lynch me, give me time before the hammer to give final thoughts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

or because you're scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

even now, it seems like you know i'm obvtown but you're too late to pivot now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

but you're already voting Hiraki?

[humaneatingmonkey]

good morning
no one hammer bugspray before he claims

[humaneatingmonkey]

how is this scummy though?

it is scummy because why would you not want to push your scumread until later? what is the town benefit of this approach?

because it was a shallow read and i was less confident in it than my Datisi read, but that was before Hiraki pushed back in a scummy way.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM -> Madoka -> Luca - game ends. George, even though flawed, would have zero reason to unvote as scum. I also re-read Madoka's ISO. Madoka hasn't given an actual opinion on myself or HEM at this point other than saying that my attack wasn't justified and that HEM's case isn't very valid either. Don't know how I missed this the first time but if there's anyone with fake if not zero reads in this game, it's Madoka.

Might be too late of me figuring that out but hopefully everything will just work out.

Why Luca?

What's with people suddenly scumreading Luca? Luca's obvtown.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Back

UNVOTE: Hiraki

Er, Madoka what about your Bug scumread? Also why are you scumreading Luca?

Process of Elimination. I think Luca is the only one that can be partners with either Hiraki or Bugs (and yes I'm aware that Luca has been on bugs, but I think if bugs is scum they are probably being bu

g

seed). If I have time and no one hammers, I can go through why I only think Luca can be their partner.

Do you have time now?

George, these were the points by Shiki that I wanted your opinion of:

Most of it sounds very in line with my reasoning.

You're scum reading Hem then?

George scumreading me does not make sense with him hopping on my wagon on the first time 'round. Something's off with George.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly I don't really want a bugs lynch and much prefer a Hiraki lynch, but if it's between me and him, I'll choose me everytime. He's obviously anti-town (not synonymous to scummy), and the only reason I want him to stay in the game is I think we can get more solid info as the game progresses. I've had history 1v1'ing VI, and they always turn out to be town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also to answer your question, yes I did cry hard.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if bugs flip scum
Hiraki - town
Datisi - town
Madoka - ?
shiki - ?
GeorgeBailey - ?
Luca Blight - town
HoldenGolden - ?

if bugs flip town
Hiraki - scum
Datisi - scum
Madoka - town
shiki - ?
GeorgeBailey - ?
Luca Blight - ?
HoldenGolden - town

if bugs flip scum, i'm pretty much wrong this entire game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

HEM -> Madoka -> Luca - game ends. George, even though flawed, would have zero reason to unvote as scum. I also re-read Madoka's ISO. Madoka hasn't given an actual opinion on myself or HEM at this point other than saying that my attack wasn't justified and that HEM's case isn't very valid either. Don't know how I missed this the first time but if there's anyone with fake if not zero reads in this game, it's Madoka.

Might be too late of me figuring that out but hopefully everything will just work out.

let's take a note that there's nowhere in this list that lists bugs as scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

I wrote a response to the above but it's too braindead for me to post. If anyone other than HEM, who doesn't read or answer my posts anyway, wants me to post anything about the above, please let me know. I'm ready to end this day with a dead monkey...or I guess human since that monkey is already dead.

No, I answered your questions. But I've 100% ignored your insults. Insults aren't arguments, no matter how smart you think it sounds in your head.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yes it's based on how players have treated and acted on bugs, and vice versa.
Even if Hiraki mirrors your thoughts, he does not react and behave like you do. Bugs being town means he still is number 1 scum candidate, and Datisi is his obvious partner.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm here until deadline so abuse me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I haven't thought about what happens when Hiraki flips town. Give me a minute.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Datisi, why do you think you would be town if Hiraki flips town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

wait a minute, you scum read datisi but NEVER voted for him?
i'm gonna hammer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: bugspray
hammer

[humaneatingmonkey]

the answer was right there. instead of pursuing his scumread, he jolly rogered about and ended with a Hiraki vote after a "bad vibe" check.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly Datisi, I only see your connection with Hiraki being AI if it was scum-to-scum. If Hiraki was town, you could still be scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

me neither

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm not sorry about hammering bugs
he established that he was anti-town, had inorganic behavior, had scummy motivation.
if he flips town, he brought this upon himself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

also it's really me vs him as i really don't think i can convince anyone to vote Hiraki

[humaneatingmonkey]

i honestly don't know yet and i don't have a solid move right now. we're going into night, that means we're gonna have another flip. that's gonna be my jumping point.

[humaneatingmonkey]

in case i die tonight, that list is final

[humaneatingmonkey]

as scum, you probably know who is town. and you really don't need to help out bugs wagon, don't cha?

[humaneatingmonkey]

also, you've called him null/town all game but you were willing to hammer 3 hours before deadline? if bugs is town, you're definitely scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm giving until 7 PM EST before I hammer. That would be the 3 hours before the deadline - excluding if anyone else does it first.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you were so convinced that i'm scum, you could have used that aggression to mislynch me. you could have gotten at least 5 people to do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

a lot to unpack here

[humaneatingmonkey]

Datisi's right, there's no need for rush day.

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah im not ready to re-read the thread today. thats a lot of work. im gonna post my thoughts tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i realized if i wait tomorrow, this thread will blow up to 50 pages.
i'm gonna give it some time tonight.

[humaneatingmonkey]

You mean I don't have to read and we can just brute force this game? Sign me up.
I'm a Novice PT Cop.

[humaneatingmonkey]

my role pm just says i can know if someone has access to a private thread. so i guess i can still find the last mafia. my guess is Datisi is a neighborizer, and since the neighborhood is supposed to be a secret until the last minute, it makes interesting scenarios. maybe that's why we have a neap as a second investigative role? im not good at setup spec

[humaneatingmonkey]

since the neighborhood is out there now, i have a 20/20 vision now

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think we'll definitely win this since we have a bodyguard and we have 2 investigative roles

[humaneatingmonkey]

Madoka I feel out of place that everyone knows you and I don't.
Have we played before... by any chance?

[humaneatingmonkey]

we're all just waiting for you to break the game Datisi, no pressure

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm just gonna wait for Datisi because I think all this talk is pointless depending on his play.
I don't think Madoka and George is lying. That entire interaction basically conf-towns them. It was very TvT.
scum is in shiki and Holden. With a very very small chance of Luca.

[humaneatingmonkey]

if Datisi does not break the game, I'm gonna be very salty
again, no pressure

[humaneatingmonkey]

Did Datisi claim IC??

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm under the impression that he also has a PR claim that wraps everything up. Otherwise, this massclaiming is whack.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I didn't cop last night

[humaneatingmonkey]

i really don't think Madoka would lie about the gambit unless she was super sure that she was today's lynch...

[humaneatingmonkey]

am I alone in thinking Madoka and George is conftown now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

The only reason I can see Madoka fakeclaiming Tracker and then fakeclaiming Neap again is to survive to LYLO using the investigative role immunity while culling VTs along the way. But then again, she didn't know that the game would proceed to massclaim — so it was a gamble for her to do that. It would have been easier to try and ML me or Luca.

[humaneatingmonkey]

scum!luca seems incredibly unlikely. if given the gift of bugspray as scum partner, i don't see how one would decide to vote for them, never consider any other options despite two wagons forming and eventually participate in their lynch. keep it mind that there isn't even a way for luca to set up a game win by being townread for this because it confirms too many people. look around town right now. i'd say luca is almost 100%.

i agree that scum luca is very unlikely... but I think it's at least plausible that bugspray would be bussed from the beginning. buddying up bugspray in D1 wasn't exactly the best thing to do as bugspray's partner. they could have coordinated that move in daychat when it was clear bugs will be the lynch.

[humaneatingmonkey]

as scum!monkey I definitely have the ability to just say I targeted Hiraki because he was my main suspect from D1.

[humaneatingmonkey]

culling VTs along the way

scum is in shiki and Holden. With a very very small chance of Luca.

you were saying

oh

[humaneatingmonkey]

what if the last scum had a PR that invalidates one of us?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if Datisi does not break the game, I'm gonna be very salty
again, no pressure

Which goes back to this

If we can agree all the claims are legit, then the game can be broken. Otherwise, we are auto-losing most likely by putting trust into all the supposed PR roles since we will go to lylo
Example if we lynch and mafia kills each night:
6v1 4 prs
4v1 3 prs
2v1 2 prs

So either in lylo everybody lynches the vanilla person or end up doing now which is debating the validity of the claims (expect they would have night actions. Although scum at this point fakeclaiming an invest role will make up a guilty check one way or the other.)

And I will admit, I am not nearly experienced in set up spec or anything. But the sheer numbers and power of what we supposedly have feels way off. That is why I am trying hard to rationalize what the hell this is by finding the missing link with scum PR.

honestly, at the end of this game, i'm not gonna be surprised if the point was the town would be suspicious of the setup and the last mafia had an invalidating role.

[humaneatingmonkey]

roleblock the other, kill the other

[humaneatingmonkey]

bodyguard has a 50% success rate to be successful

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe mislynch the other PR

[humaneatingmonkey]

there's plenty of plays here

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm now thinking that this massclaim is whack

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm saying bodyguard chooses between Madoka and I, and figure out who the scum would target tonight. 50%.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i guess i really have to re-read now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Datisi is scum. Discuss.

[humaneatingmonkey]

maybe mislynch the other PR

Yet I am the only one purposing that we suspect the PRs, so non-claiming scum here is relying either on me doing their work (fair enough lazy pants) or town doubting later in the game.

So scum gambles on a 50% chance to kill someone? Also where did you see 50%? On wiki it says normal bg always protects with only a variation being the 50%. I thought george just claimed regular BG?

PEDIT
Datisi is not scum

They are the only 100% town person in this game

shiki, as well. and I think that if one of us flips dead tomorrow, it's very easy to mislynch the other.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Datisi is only 100% town because he choo-choo'd the bugs wagon, but if we're thinking bugs could be early-bussed, Datisi's back on the table. Moreso, because he asked for a massclaim and said he wanted to claim last. That's a roleblocker move if i ever saw one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We have Datisi as confirmed town-neighbor via flip.

forgot about this

[humaneatingmonkey]

yeah sorry

[humaneatingmonkey]

both

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm gonna go to sleep now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

just tell me what to do and i'll do it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Micc

Is Mafia Neighbor + Mafia Neighbor normal? lmao

[humaneatingmonkey]

I just have to say it. If you're scum, you're playing the perfect game here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There cannot be a neighborhood of only one alignment - there could be two scum neighbors and one town neighbor, for example, but not just two scum neighbors.

@Micc

Is this correct?

[humaneatingmonkey]

see if there are two mafia neighbors... then it's completely balanced. the two investigative roles are pointless, and only serves to confirm town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm gonna go to sleep. i only have 3 hours to sleep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i pinkie promise im town and you guys can lynch me. if you're gonna be like this, i dont want to be in lylo.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i think it's shiki

[humaneatingmonkey]

Can we do shiki instead?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: shiki

[humaneatingmonkey]

but now i feel like you're town

[humaneatingmonkey]

sorry about last night i was sleep deprived

[humaneatingmonkey]

then i just investigate you, i don't see the problem.
i think game ends if we lynch shiki today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im 100% convinced that Hiraki being killed is just me being set-up for an ML.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm literally being set-up to be lynched

now

.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Honestly I don't really want a bugs lynch and much prefer a Hiraki lynch, but if it's between me and him, I'll choose me everytime. He's obviously anti-town (not synonymous to scummy), and the only reason I want him to stay in the game is I think we can get more solid info as the game progresses. I've had history 1v1'ing VI, and they always turn out to be town.

Luca, Holden, Madoka is town because pro-town actions, town motivations, and organic behaviors.

shiki is town? she projects the same pro-town actions and town motivations, but i can't see past her case against me — wherein some were forced. her role on joining my wagon with Hiraki might also mean she's scum should Hiraki flip scum.

GeorgeBaily is town? not so much pro-town actions, but he has town motivations and organic behavior. as a third player in Hiraki's wagon, he's unlikely to be his partner.

i agree with HoldenGolden that bugspray could be town, but i don't think it's a case-shut on him being town. for players like bugspray, i'd like to see their vote pattern, or rely on a PR to check their alignment (if ever).

Shiki - first non-RVS with an 'eh' reason. good questions, but that's not what makes town. towncreds for meta effort though. i'm not sure if scum goes to the game and says "well im gonna research their meta and make fake townreads based on that, so i can be seen as town."

Datisi - his posts in the early game feels like he's trying too hard to appear like he's trying.
bugspray - said something weird, but that's not what makes scum.
Question to both Datisi and bugspray: Why is Luca Blight town?

Luca Blight - withholding my read.

Holden - not answering's Madoka's questions properly, but could just be tired.
Question: You really think Datisi was pocketing you?

Madoka - Good questions, but that's not what makes town.
Hiraki - i'm getting some scum-cornered vibes.

George Bailey - pops in and out, had the opportunity to hunt a bit, diasppointed that he didn't. not getting a lot of "excited to know more about the town" vibes from him.

How many scum do you think we have in this setup? Is there a possibility of third-party factions?

I wanted to keep bugs so I can investigate him in the night and i've been hinting on it. i also wanted to know if there are other factions that has access to a private thread.

[humaneatingmonkey]

for players like bugspray, i'd like to see their vote pattern, or rely on a PR to check their alignment (if ever).

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's what i thought

[humaneatingmonkey]

you guys can lynch me today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

im either scum or pt cop. choose.

[humaneatingmonkey]

just that i can investigate

[humaneatingmonkey]

Uhh, Monkey, you can't investigate till Night 2. Was it really worth that much keeping bugs around so you could have a result on the on Day *three*?

It makes absolutely zero sense from a town perspective.

dont forget that i really didn't think bugs was scum. i thought it was likely that they were VI being set-up as D1 ML. i wanted to lynch Hiraki first.

[humaneatingmonkey]

i thought it was better to lynch people i think to be scum, and investigate people that you're can't really be sure of.

[humaneatingmonkey]

is it really that convenient? right now, i'm having a hard time and im not even scum. the novice part doesn't really help me in any way. i can just say i investigated one of the VTs who claimed, and got no result.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Monkey, why do you think shiki is scum? Sorry if i missed it while skimming

later

[humaneatingmonkey]

how about Datisi, who's a confirmed part of a neighbor? don't you think scum me could have just confirmed that?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if i'm scum, i'm doing a bad job making things easy for myself. i killed Hiraki, the person whose most vocally suspicious of me — who some people already read to be scum. i claim an investigative role, when i already have the information that there's another one.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No? No Result wouldn't confirm the VT as Town?

Pedit: Monkey my neighborhood was claimed before the Day ended. Why would a PT cop ever investigate a confirmed Neighbor?

Would I get no result? Isn't your neighbor PT open right now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

whatever just lynch me guys. im tired of this. lynch shiki tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

this was the best town i've ever played with.

[humaneatingmonkey]

my only regret was i'm not actually town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hot take: I played like shit.

Thanks Micc for hosting!

@HEM
So shall I break your knee caps or your elbows first?

neither will make up for the way I broke your heart.