Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Pine]

VOTE: Disable Strongman

I hate strongman.

I’m going to try my best to stay current in this game, but my best isn’t great. Please consider this a request, a plea, that you limit your posting to important, game-related topics. You can shitpost elsewhere. When a game produces more than a dozen pages in a day, it gets really daunting, and those of us who have real lives and responsibilities have difficulty keeping up.

Please. For the love of god. I’m excited for this game - don’t make me dread it.

[Pine]

VOTE: Neighborizer

Train Cop is relatively useless as almost everyone is going to want to train their ability.

Honestly, I'm fine with scum retaining their strongman kill. The chances of the NK being protected by the doctor/equivalent role are low and if scum wants to spend an extra XP point on a strongman, that's on them. It would be a waste of XP for them to do so anyway, so we shouldn't waste our public mechanic on blocking it.

Neighborhoods will give us more information and help us get reads and in a came where we can't lynch yet, it's more important that we get town reads than scum reads, especially with the quest mechanic.

Bullshit, neighborhoods are often the opposite of helpful. I've seen them used by scum to privately influence and pocket a Townie

way

more than I've seen them useful as a means to investigate. I could envision the Train Cop being useful, but the Neighborizer is an absolute XP sink for nothing useful.

Hectic +Townpoints, momo +scumpoints

[Pine]

Let our protectives be effective. #Disablestronkman2020

[Pine]

This alt is a playstyle experiment.

Well let me tell you, if you're town it's a failure already. (I guess you could argue it's also a failure as scum if I pegged you this early, buthey, never know.)

Because I'm pretty sure this is not the result you intended from your alt:
HURT: Lady Chloe.

Be nice, mastina.

I support all private alts. I think it's a preposterous reason to SR someone.

[Pine]

Actually, Ame, on further thought I agree with you. Disabling powers isn't fun for the game. And, philosophically, I believe Mafia should be allowed to remove players who are so problematic if they want to spend the XP on a strongman.
VOTE: Neighborizer

- Bret

what

Neighborizer is clearly the uselessest choice here

Okay, so my top choice is clearly the minority, but I don't want Neighborizer to win.

VOTE: Train cop

[Pine]

I agree, but it looks like we're not in the majority here. I would rather ensure the victory of an adequate effect than risk a bad one chasing an excellent one.

The parallels to politics are eerie.

[Pine]

Cool, disable Stronkman is viable again.

VOTE: Disable Strongman
HURT: springlullaby

Agree with momo. I'm on the quest, but will not be voting SL leader.

[Pine]

I could definitely do that as scum - but in this case I didn’t.

[Pine]

I'm here just...kind of having a depressive episode today. Give me some slack and I'll be here.

[Pine]

Cool, I'm feeling much better than I was earlier. I had a nap, finished watching

Archer

, made myself a primo quality homemade quesadilla, played Rainbox Six Siege with my mates while drinking a silly amount of whiskey, won some matches, ran out of whiskey, lost some matches, started in on the rum, and remembered I had both ginger beer and lime juice, so made myself a Dark & Stormy.

I'm feeling hella better. Thanks for being supportive, you guys, especially Ame and Ginny.

Still happy with my SL vote. choo choo.

Going to bed now <3

[Pine]

Am I accused of spamming? I do not spam because I post content.

I am also forced to defend myself against all the bullshit Fakscum is spewing.

You're both spamming, but at least he isn't being unnecessarily hostile. Hence why I'm happy with my vote - win lose or draw, removing one or both of you D1 is positive for this game's health.

[Pine]

Shit, you're right. It's likely the first step towards that, though, and it's the best we can do right now.

[Pine]

And even if spring was scum which is unlikely, roleblocking a claimed voyeur is not ideal

I didn't see the claim, but A) Voyeur is a +EV scum role (imo) and B) Roleclaims should not be treated as sacrosanct, especially in a likely role madness game.

[Pine]

momo, Pink Ball, Farkset, Pine are you all good with choosing the leader today through majority vote? We can vote using Leader: Player.

I don’t have a problem with that.

Leader: Ame

[Pine]

Pine

(1) What do you think of the town read on you by Ginnie?
(2) What do you think of the town read on you by Farkset?
(3) What do you think of the town read on you by Raya?
(4) Who would you be suspicious of if Spring is town?

I don't really have much opinion of their reads on me - they're for good, analytical reasons, and they're right. That's pretty NAI.

I don't know that Spring has any real associatives worth pursuing unless she's scum. By and large, if someone flips Town I'll give their thoughts another look, but it means they didn't have any privileged information. If they flip scum, then their reads require analysis.

[Pine]

Hunh, I forgot to post here after prod. Good thing the mods are swell chums and haven't replaced me yet.

Reading...

[Pine]

I'm feeling like this is a game for Townhunting.

My list so far consists of Ame, Ginny, Chloe, Raya, and mastina's slot. Momo and Pink Ball are +EV Town, but I'm not letting them into the club yet.

SL is really the only slot I'm uncomfortable with right now.

[Pine]

Time to look back on springlullaby and Farkran:
Springlullaby:

^ Dumb.

We are settling the quest thing now.
We do it, I'm the leader.
Profit.

Trying to push through things like this is never going to be frictionless. Why should town do it that way? It increases conflicts meaninglessly...

Pine, why are you voting me? I found two scums already.

Would town really act like this? Have you ever seen an argument like this coming from town - that you found two supposed scum when it`s early on day 1 and they don`t have said they agreed with you???

HURT: Springlullaby
Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

Also WHY ARE YOU STILL VOTING NEIGHBORIZER???!!!
Why scum WHYYYYY?

If they think that hectic is scum ... why are they acting like this?

^Day 1 is a no brainer for quest, it is totally protown:
- Low XP pool
- Low accuracy for sabotage

Risk/Reward is win for town.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU VOTE ME THE MOST AWESOME LEADER ON EARTH

Exaggerated BS yelling.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

Actually you are right. I misread.

FAKECLAIM!

If you are so focused on getting xp for your role you don`t misread.

<subliminal interlude>

FARK IS SCUM

</subliminal interlude>

^

Translate: I lie and am ad hominem and make bullshit cases but want immunity on flip because spring is gonna flip blue.

<chorus>

Farkscum bell, Farkscum bell
Farkscum all the way
Oh! what scum it is to ride
In a scummity scum open sleigh,
Hey!

</end chorus>

And then it begins. I will not quote the rest but there is much bullshit spam from this point naming farkran "farkscum" without really going much into specifics. But there is absolutely no scumhunt attempt behind it. It looks like they actually want to make this a 1v1 but for which ends? Let`s go to Farkran now...


Farkran:


The reason I switched to there are Ame`s posts:

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

The difference between post 553 and 656 is extreme

and points to scum forgetting their precise motivations.

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

So, what does this all mean?
This post will clear it all up:

I have an upgrade in 1 XP that's why I want leadership btw.

I don't believe this

-Farkran

This doesn`t sound hostile at all. Spring almost instantly retracted the claim "in 1 xp" even if the rules wouldn`t forbid it(1 xp from the beginning->you need 1 more xp...), though; extremely out of character for what spring is trying to emulate(would they really re-check based on that flimsy claim without any added reasoning, "that they don`t believe it"?
But if Farkran

told them to retract that in their scumchat

...
That`s right. No one of them has to hold back because there WILL be a scum flip at the end. This is staged.

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

This is a pretty convincing case - even if it's not correct, I think this case never comes from scum. Welcome to the good guys, NK15.

[Pine]

Springlullaby vs Farkran is SCUM VS SCUM!

Oh-oh-oh, things just got interesting

Which is exactly why you moved your vote from SCUM to SCUM, right?

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

-Farkran

This is also a scummy response to a damning accusation. Classic "no u!"

[Pine]

Explain why you switched your votes, now.

Simple... because of what Ame found you looked - and look - very scummy. And because I initially thought that probably only one of you was scum, the impression that you probably wanted to give. To resolve that, I took my time to re-read what you both said and found out that it is very likely that you two are scum.

Bullshit.

You don't move your vote from scum to scum

You move your vote either from your partner to town who is going down, or from stalled town to another town wagon to give momentum to a terrible capture choice

HURT: NK15

This is not town.

To be honest i'm starting to reconsider springlullaby and warming up to the theory that she is being wked for the purpose of keeping her around because she had wrong reads up to now. Like, if you check springlullaby's accusation progression as i laid it out in my analysis of her slot, it goes like this: AME > HECTIC > FARKRAN who are very likely

all town

. I still strongly dislike springlullaby's claim, but i'm more confident on NK15 being scum right now.

If you look at my reads on the other hand, i have been on SPRINGLULLABY > FOC > CHLOE > NK15 which plausibly contain up to 2 scum. For the record, i no longer scumread chloe.

-Farkran

So is this.

[Pine]

Good guys (No particular order)

Pine
Ame
Ginny
Chloe
Raya
mastina's slot
NK15

Medium guys

Momo
Pink Ball

Bad guys

springlullaby
Farkset

[Pine]

Looks like Hectic and FotC are the only ones not on my lists. I'll take a closer look individually when I don't have a crying toddler who needs and nap but MOMMYDADDY NO TIRED

[Pine]

This is a pretty convincing case - even if it's not correct, I think this case never comes from scum. Welcome to the good guys, NK15.

Except it's not, just admit I'm a victim to burden of proficiency.

You would need proficiency first?

[Pine]

Why...the fuck would we want to capture someone we think is Town?

[Pine]

Pink, Pine. You trust me, you trust Raya. Trust that we have good intentions, assume we aren't idiots, and ask questions later.

Just because you're Town doesn't make your judgment any better.

[Pine]

The vibe I get off of SL this game. Except without getting the joke at the end.

[Pine]

Stand by, I think a mod error has been made.

[Pine]

@Mod, could you confirm that no mod error has confirmed?

Not all mod errors are serious enough to warrant public admission. But I can confirm that there has not been a mod error that would be mentioned publicly.

I’m not the mod, so I can admit more. I had a choice between three public effects to put in place today - everyone has the ability to gift XP, everyone can spend an XP to bodyguard someone, or everyone can spend one XP to make gold. I could also gift gold to people 1/night. The nice the whole Town has a piece of gold, the

entire Town

would be bulletproof. I predicated my

entire

D1 on getting Disable Strongman passed, then fading away. I needed to survive in order to make night kills extinct.

But nope! I’m a dumbass. The PM saved to drafts instead of sending, so Moriarty randomized my choice and the boring one came up.

I am livid. This was a priceless opportunity, and I cocked it up.

Sorry.

[Pine]

Unfortunate Pine. What is gold exactly?

A macguffin which would have made us all bulletproof. Now it’s not a thing because I’m a dumb.

VOTE: Spring

[Pine]

Hey Pine you're fucking here.

You're one of my favorite people I play with, do you agree that I avoid you when we're scum together and not if at least one of us is T.

I think when we're scum together you do what I tell you.

[Pine]

What possible reason would I have for inventing a story like that, Spring? You just don't like that I scumread you.

[Pine]

Chloe, what do you mean, elaborate? I laid out my suspicions of SL pretty thoroughly on D1, and the communication error with the mod a page or so ago.

[Pine]

I didn't realize it either. Busy day, will post before bed.

[Pine]

No?

[Pine]

Sorry guys, feeling very apathetic right now. I'll try to check in tomorrow and do some work.

[Pine]

I am present, I'll read up as soon as possible.

[Pine]

I guess so Ame can confirm this later, I gifted 1 XP

I can also confirm this.

Hi guys. A lot of the things preventing me from focusing on this game have cleared up. I will be EFFORTING in the morning.