Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Ame]

Hey, I didn't know I made it in this!

Spoiler:

Are you feeling better, Hectic?

[Ame]

No pops? I thought this would be up her alley.

[Ame]

I'm feeling great now <3

Awesome n_n!

[Ame]

Ok caught up. I'm not for train cop since it's a standard action. It just doesn't seem that useful unless it's a bonus option. It also seems more useful to mafia since they can use 2-3 train cops at once. Also, I disagree with mass train cop plans.
I think no strongman is the best option, but I actually like the neighborizer thing too, mainly because it seems fun. Hmm

VOTE: Neighborizor

I realize this is the unpopular choice, so consider me on disable strongman as well.

[Ame]

I agree that neighborhoods usually aren't that useful, but I think in this game it will be in particular. Especially if everyone has the option to do it.

[Ame]

possibility of such a role to exist

For what role to exist?

[Ame]

Thinking about it more, I actually like the idea of scum having strongman. Yeah, neighborizor is the way to go I think. I still prefer train cop the least / think it is net negative.

[Ame]

To be clear: I mean scum keeping the strongman ability.

[Ame]

Neighborizer increases the utility for players that may not otherwise have a use for their XP.

[Ame]

Ame, explain why you would a scum strongman.

Nah.

Ame could you explain why do you think the train cop is a net negative? I mean, i thought so as well initially, but it's clearly not imo

Since it gives more useful information to mafia than to town. I don't think scum is going to be caught by the train checks. I think someone mentioned before someone not training is more likely to be from town than scum.

[Ame]

(And again mafia would be able to use 2-3 checks in a night (if they didn't have something else they wanted to do) giving them quite a bit of info)

[Ame]

No, I'm not. The information just only benefits mafia. You can kill me N1, that's fine. It's preferable to continuing this drab conversation.

[Ame]

I think only the minimum number of players necessary should do the quest and we should vote on which players to do the quest during the day. This will, ideally, reduce mafia's influence inside the quest and potentially limit their access to the content discussed.

[Ame]

It's like a double filter where scum's influence becomes diluted in the process. The minimum number required is 7, which means 6 off. There are 3 mafia. Presuming we use our pro scumhunting skills, we could filter out 1-3 mafia from being a part of the quest. Thus reducing their influence during the quest itself.

[Ame]

This approach assumes that town is always correctly permitting town into a quest. Scum have the power of voice, too.

That's what I mean by a filter. It's not perfect, but it's something. If scum care about influencing the quest, they will have to do so first in the public thread, then in the private thread. It's just an idea though. I don't think it's that important if there's not obvious support for it. To be honest, my real agenda was giving critical PRs a way to avoid joining the quest without becoming a target for mafia. But increasing the number who join beyond the minimum kind of diminishes that.

[Ame]

The gifting does not count as an action so cannot be blocked.

[Ame]

And sabotaging doesn't prevent gains in XP.

[Ame]

On the disable strongman? Why would you choose this. For scum, to make a strongman kill would be a complete waste of an XP point. N1, there is a 1/12 chance that our doctor correctly protects the night kill. If scum wants to waste their XP on that 1 in 12 chance, let's leave them the rope to hang themselves with. I understand that for some reason, people strong support this option and that my dismissal of the strongman ability might be unpopular, but think it through. Using strongman is strategically incorrect for scum. We shouldn't take away the option, especially when there are two more beneficial alternatives.

Yea this is what I was getting at. Strongman is expending XP for a low payout, so I think it's worth the exchange of reducing the utility of any potential protectives.

[Ame]

Yea, I just saw Hectic brought up that point after. Hmm. I suppose I'll follow what Hectic decides (except for Train Cop).

What do you think of Spring so far, Raya?

Pedit: mother of ninjas

[Ame]

QUEST PLEDGE LIST DAY 1

Spoiler:

Quest Accepted!

[Ame]

IV. Actions
This game contains two types of night actions: standard actions and bonus actions. Unless otherwise specified, all actions are standard actions. Each player may carry out a maximum of one standard action and any number of bonus actions in one night,

unless they Train, in which case they may take no other actions (standard or bonus)

.

The Mafia factional kill is a bonus action

; this in effect means that all Mafia members are multitasking, as they may carry out the Mafia kill at the same time as taking a personal action.

Players may also have passive abilities, which are abilities that always trigger and cannot be roleblocked or interfered with.

This game also contains day actions. Any number of day actions can be taken during a day, but each day action can only be taken once per day unless otherwise specified.

@Mastina scum cannot kill if they train

...Oh.

Mastina, this is odd to me considering that you were on the scum team in the previous game. It looks like a fake town slip, especially considering your mechanic orientation and this quote:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped. I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

HURT: Mastina

[Ame]

Also looking at the previous game, it's likely that scum has alternative ways to gain XP. In XP1 they had an autofarmer (gain 1 XP automatically each night) and a roleblocker (Mastina) that gained the XP the person they blocked would have gained. With this in mind, I am leaning more favorably toward a mass training cop strategy, simply because it could force mafia to train when they otherwise wouldn't need to. That is if we're able to work out a reliable strategy. There was something else I was going to say, but I lost my train of thought. Oh! Again, keep in mind the ability also benefits mafia. If they have roles such as the role blocker from the previous game, the train cop will grant them greater insight into who to target. I still prefer the other two abilities, but I thought I'd throw this out there.

[Ame]

I have check with the mod, and he said we are allowed to vote end day without capturing. This is clearly the best mechanical option. No lynch is forced upon us, and until such time that lynch becomes available, we should not be using this anti-town ability. We want all town powers being used.

Ideally today should be short, choose a power, then end day. When lynch becomes available, we should start to discuss.

VOTE: End day

- Bret

This would be very much to our disadvantage. Capturing hurts mafia more than it hurts town, especially in the early Days when everyone is low on XP. The key to this is the fact that we know they must expend XP to preform the Night kill. A D1 captured mafia member who began the game with 1XP would not only be prevented from carrying out the Night kill N1 but N2 as well since they would have lost their original XP and would have been unable to train during the previous Night. So by capturing a mafia, we have a chance of significantly hindering their movement as a whole. Capturing Town, on the other hand, does not significantly set us back (1) because many of the personal roles seem to not require the exhaustion of XP and (2) we have not yet gained any shared roles that do. At worse, we prevent a PR from taking a N1 action and/or set someone back from upgrading for a Night or two.

Furthermore, failing to use this mechanic robs us of information we could use to look back on later. This is, without a doubt, the most hurtful strategy that has been proposed.

[Ame]

I have check with the mod, and he said we are allowed to vote end day without capturing. This is clearly the best mechanical option. No lynch is forced upon us, and until such time that lynch becomes available, we should not be using this anti-town ability. We want all town powers being used.

Ideally today should be short, choose a power, then end day. When lynch becomes available, we should start to discuss.

VOTE: End day

- Bret

This would be very much to our disadvantage. Capturing hurts mafia more than it hurts town, especially in the early Days when everyone is low on XP. The key to this is the fact that we know they must expend XP to preform the Night kill. A D1 captured mafia member who began the game with 1XP would not only be prevented from carrying out the Night kill N1 but N2 as well since they would have lost their original XP and would have been unable to train during the previous Night. So by capturing a mafia, we have a chance of significantly hindering their movement as a whole. Capturing Town, on the other hand, does not significantly set us back (1) because many of the personal roles seem to not require the exhaustion of XP and (2) we have not yet gained any shared roles that do. At worse, we prevent a PR from taking a N1 action and/or set someone back from upgrading for a Night or two.

Furthermore, failing to use this mechanic robs us of information we could use to look back on later. This is, without a doubt, the most hurtful strategy that has been proposed.

Read the scum chat from the last game. A captured mafia set them back because the role blocker couldn't kill and do the factional ability at
Incorrect. There are 3 mafia, and a captured mafia is very low reward for town - one of the others can perform the factional kill. Town roles are not afforded this luxury. A captured town role is a lost role for the night. Capturing at this stage of the game is very low reward and high risk. The overwhelming likelihood is that a town player will be captured. The most important thing right now is to ensure town players with powers are using them unimpeded, not having them captured, or forcing them to claim to avoid being captured.

- Bret

You're missing the point. Removing one mafia's ability to do the kill forces another to do it. Forcing them to expend XP they could otherwise save or use on something else. Read the scum chat in the last game. Even though scum had multitasking, the roleblocker wasn't able to use their ability AND capture at the same time. This forced the third member to expend XP and they were eventually left unable to kill because each member's XP was exhausted.

[Ame]

use their ability AND kill*

[Ame]

Consider my vote in a superposition between Conchords, Spring, and Mastina.

[Ame]

HURT: Conchords

[Ame]

Ame,

I would appreciate a nuanced opinion of choosing Neighborizer.

First, some roles are may at some time have idle XP such as Pacifist or Accelerator & Autofarmer (when everyone is upgraded), so we should provide the option to utilize XP with abilities such as neighborizer so as to not have XP go to waste. Second, neighborhoods will allow roles like accelerator and autofarmer to coordinate their XP sharing abilities, providing it to those who need it. This is better than having them take a shot in the dark which is better than having people seek out XP publically. And because this is essentially a non-vanilla game, neighborhoods will be useful for PR coordination in general. Third, mafia are less likely to form neighborhoods than town because it exhausts XP which they need for the kill and the strongman. This is what I meant by being fine with allowing scum to keep strongman. It will force them to have to choose between spending their XP on being strong, neighborizing, or other; and the more they exhaust XP the better for us. Ultimately, we want them in a position where they are cornered/unable to use the NK/forced to train. So yea, most of the hoods are probably going to be town initiated, and even those that aren't, it's still a fairly useful way for evaluating one another—who and why someone neighborizes, pocket attempts, etc.

May you explain mastina's "mechanic orientation" in the previous game and how that correlates to her behavior here?

Being mechanically minded and the fact that she was so involved in the previous game, it is unlikely that she forgot that training can't take place at the same time as an action. If it were someone who wasn't much into mechanics, this would be a reasonable excuse as they may have genuinely just not paid attention the previous game. Mastina is a master mind, however, and very cognizant of the mechanical details.

[Ame]

I must consult the Echo.

[Ame]

Yes, but the rule was the same. We just have added clarification here.

From XP1:

This takes the place of another action and cannot be used alongside

any action

.

Additionally, Mastina was a part of the scum team so was aware even if the public wasn't. And the post I quoted from before indicates that she was:

And why no kill N4?

There's no explanation for this except for scum training. It's the only possibility, because there's no method by which a kill could have been stopped.

I didn't stop it with my roleblock, Assembler was dead, so there was no longer any obstacles for a kill. It had to be training. N3 does not have to be.

[Ame]

That was more than two years ago... Do you remember all things from two years ago? I see the possibility of it being faked but it isn`t big enough to be scum indicative.

I can dig that, thank you for your input.

[Ame]

OK I've been thinking over some things. First, I change my mind, disable strongman is the way to go. Second, I don't trust Spring's agenda so I'm leaving the quest.

[Ame]

Hectic, which of Farkset's reads do you disagree with, if any? Basically, how would you arrange the list they provided?

[Ame]

OK I've been thinking over some things. First, I change my mind, disable strongman is the way to go. Second, I don't trust Spring's agenda so I'm leaving the quest.

What don't you trust? springlullaby isn't getting the Leader position.

It's not just Spring really. Spring, momo, and FotC pushing for everyone to be in it is creeping me out. Though I think momo's motives may be pure.

[Ame]

I just realized that farewell is a contraction of fare well. I mean it's obvious, it just never entered my conscious thought

[Ame]

VOTE: Disable Strongman

Spoiler: Vote Count

Unofficial VC

[Capture] Flight of the Conchords (4)- Raya36, Lady Chloe*, Farkset, Ame
[Capture] springlullaby (4)- momo, Pine, Not Known 15, Hectic
[Capture] Lady Chloe (1)- mastina
[Capture] Hectic (1)- springlullaby
[End Day] (1) - Flight of the Conchords

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Ginngie

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

Public Mechanic Vote

Disable Strongman (8)- Farkset, springlullaby, Raya36, Pine, Not Known 15, mastina, Ginngie, Ame
Neighborizer (3)- momo, Flight of the Conchords, Hectic
Train Cop (0)

Not voting (2)- Pink Ball, Lady Chloe*

I'm not sure whether or not Lady Chloe's unvote counts toward the capture or the mechanic.

@mod

what should we use to unvote?

[Ame]

So I think I came up with a game-breaking Train Cop strategy.

No Capture Version
7 players go on the quest
We decided publically who will be the leader. The leader is free to use any action they choose.
The other 6 questers Train
Each of the 6 non-questers is assigned to Train cop one of the (non-leader) questers.

Capture Version
7 players go on the quest including the captured player.
The leader is decided publically and is free to use any action they choose.
The other 5 questers Train
Each of the 6 non-questers is assigned to Train cop the 6 non-captured questers including the leader. (Alternatively one of the questers remains unassigned)

In this way, mafia can't join the quest without being forced to Train! So at least one mafia will have to remain outside of the quest in order to do the kill. And the others inside the quest will not be able to use their abilities! So mafia has to decide to either A) be a part of the quest or B) use their abilities.

[Ame]

What if mafia is assigned to train cop the mafia inside the quest so they're free to do what they want

Indeed, but that's not the primary goal. The primary goal is forcing mafia to have to either use their ability/kill OR be inside the quest, not both.

[Ame]

What if mafia is assigned to train cop the mafia inside the quest so they're free to do what they want

Indeed, but that's not the primary goal. The primary goal is forcing mafia to have to either use their ability/kill OR be inside the quest, not both.

Like even if they aren't assigned to their partner, they can still use their ability and simply say that the person they were assigned to trained.

[Ame]

Oh I see, we can't account for that, but it's less likely than is that they'll be assigned to their partner.

[Ame]

So the aim is to reduce mafia influence within the quest, and increase the chance of the leader being picked and the person the leader selects to be town? Since, this disincentives them to join the quest. And if they do, they may not use any special abilities.

Right!

[Ame]

A potential addition: it may also provide a reason for the questers to collectively decide who the leader should gift. (1) since it will be a town-sided collective and (2) That way, if the gifter is blocked/killed/etc/or not, it will provide indicators as to who may be mafia inside/outside the quest.

[Ame]

gifted*

[Ame]

What I like about this is that if there is a kill, we know ~100% that it was one of the people outside of the quest that did it. (~accept for the potential of mafia being assigned to their partner)

[Ame]

a lot

No a lot. Only a little. Because for this to occur, at least 1 mafia still has to remain outside of the quest so the information is still linked! If there is a kill, we know that 1 of the 6 outside the quest is mafia.

[Ame]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

Spoiler:

[Ame]

Inverted Quest! The prisoners are the adventurers.

[Ame]

Inverted Quest! The prisoners are the adventurers.

Inverted Quest! The adventures are imprisoned!

[Ame]

You know what, we should be trying to put all the mafia on the quest in that case. If we manage to, there'll be no kill unless mafia choose to kill and out themselves to one of the Train Cops. It's similar to the coalition victory condition from that setup.

We capture, and put the 6 scummiest people alongside the captured person on the quest.

Actually, the thing about this is that it essentially reduces it back to the previously discussed strategies and there would be no need for players to remain outside the quest (We could simply have 6 people assigned to 6 people). Additionally, it is actually preferable that town is in the Quest group (1) for the item selection and receiving and (2)

so that they can train

. Based on the previous game, vanilla have the strongest upgrades, so we want them to be able to do that as soon as possible.

[Ame]

So it's a trade-off between having town train or potentially having preventing mafia from being able to kill (the latter of which it doesn't matter who joins the quest, we can just assign 6 people to 6 people). I think either strategy would be a fruitful path forward.

[Ame]

having

[Ame]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

[Ame]

so, yeah. Any train cop strategies have a potential miller problem

Not with the strategy I initially proposed. Autofarm doesn't need to join the quest.

and bussing makes any results .

Huh? Wouldn't we want scum to bus?

[Ame]

The autogain 1XP but cannot train.

I don't think they would show up as "Training" for the Train Cop then.

Right, so they need to work their way into the off-quest group if they exist.

[Ame]

Huh? Wouldn't we want scum to bus?

NK15 could you clarify this? Hectic and Farkset I'm heading off for now, be back in a bit

[Ame]

I think I enjoy town more overall, but only because my desire to win goes up drastically when playing scum which makes it somewhat stressful. Which in a way might mean I enjoy the challenge of playing scum? Not sure.

Absolutely. I relish being scum, and you'll often find me replacing out of games where I roll town. What's the point of playing mafia if you don't get to lie to your friends?

Playing scum is so much effort. Though, that might've been emphasized by not having anyone to talk to in scumchat this game. I think I much prefer town.

[Ame]

Jemaine, we know each other? Also, I haven't given any reads.

[Ame]

It depends on my mood, Ame

I will say that I have a problem with being scum in that it makes me more self-aware of being friendly/joking around. I don't want that to be perceived as me using it to get townread.

I just realised I don't know your preference! Do you prefer town or scum? My guess would be town.

Correct! I despise being scum. As you said, it's stressful and requires a lot more effort. And I feel guilty manipulating people lol. The exceptions are games like these where RPG like mechanics are involved. For such games, I have a slight preference for scum because of the strategizing and cohesion with the team. It can be pretty frustrating trying to work together as town to form a cohesive strategy.

[Ame]

My play. My propositions. Hmm. I'm sorry, I don't quite understand.

And no that's incorrect! I'm not scum reading any of the three people I listed having a superposition vote on. I'm not necessarily town reading you either, though a slight TL on you and Spring. I just consider you threats as you're playing to scum's win con. Spring by making the game unhealthy/lowering morale; you due to proposing and supporting scum-sided strategies.

[Ame]

Ah I mean you ya'll did something identical when I proposed the minimum number of players going on the quest. Instead of considering deeper motivations, it was brushed off. I think the issue may be hubris? (I'm not sure that's the correct word). You haven't been open to considering that the play best suited to you may not be what's best for everyone else.

[Ame]

Egocentric is the proper term. I don't mean it pejoratively btw. I mean everyone is naturally inclined to play in this manner, including myself. You remind me the player Obvioius scum, as he and I also tend to have highly conflicting philosophies. I made the mistake of not trusting his side of things before, however, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and see where things go. Plus from the way you two have spoken, I get the impression that you know what you're talking about and I do think your responses here have been fairly townie.

UNVOTE:

I'd put my vote on Spring, but I don't like leaving people at L-1.

[Ame]

Going through stuff I hadn't read yet.

Farkset (Farkran + Kerset)
Not Known 15
Ame
Raya36

Could you go over these reads?

Pretty good.

Anyway.

VOTE: Ginngie

This was funny

We want to eliminate ALL scum. If bussing causes us to make wrong assumptions that will cost us the game then no, we don`t want scum to bus.

Why are you assuming that we would treat the busser as cleared? If that were the case scum should just bus every game and ride the credit to end game.


I find the points that Conchord brought up convincing.

[Ame]

I completely agree with you, momo. I looked through her last mafia game (in which she was scum in), and she played a lot more timidly and less opinionated in this manner. However, that was 2 years ago so basically means very little.

I'm restraining myself from voting her until more people weigh in because I know my scumread of her is biased right now lul

Also Hectic I was confused by this. You scum read her because she is playing differently from her scum game?

[Ame]

Alright, did some reading on Spring. I doubt they're scum. Hectic and Fark, care to try Ginggie out? You both have them pretty low on your lists and we haven't gotten anything from them.

HURT: Ginggie

[Ame]

I also strongly support making Spring the leader. I'd like to see what they do. I still get mad weird vibes from everyone trying to get everyone into the quest though so I'm still not joining and I suggest that others do the same.

[Ame]

One last thing. Perhaps these players could steer the conversation for a while?

mastina
Pink Ball
Raya36
Pine
Ginngie
Lady Chloe
momo

[Ame]

I had a dream that I was at a movie theatre/auditorium and none of us could leave until the show was over or else a giant version of Wimpy's avatar would chase us down and scoop us into his bottomless hat. It was terrifying

[Ame]

but it is the correct choice and despite the above reasoning there is no small chance that spring will flip scum when a flip is available.

What's the above reasoning? The above was a presentation of town!Spring wasn't it? Also you're saying that me and Lady are pocketing spring? Does that mean you scum read me?

i'd like to hear your reasons for giving springlullaby that much maneuverability

I like to give agency to people I'd like a better read on so we can observe how they use it.

Do you mean xp and leveling up?

Yea but also, like, the large range of mechanical possibilities. I like PYP for the same reason. Why do you ask?

What changed your mind from suspecting she had malicious motives with the agenda she was pushing?

There's only one way to test it!

I think her "forgetting" the upgrade cost for her ability and using that as reasoning for being Leader, and her "PT slip" are both fabricated. She refuses to explain either when I confronted her about it earlier.

I read the first as needing 1 more XP to upgrade. One of you explained that her last game was a while ago and there wasn't a scum PT in it. She also hasn't really read the OPs so I think it's reasonable that she wasn't aware.

HURT: Pine

Sounds good to me.

...</3

Seriously? I wish I had more mafiascum related dreams lol.

They're usually pretty nice, but this one ended up being quite disturbing. I also had a dream a while ago that nomnom broke into my house and then I gave her a room to stay in and we talked about ceiling fans. I told her about it but I think it weirded her out because she didn't respond


Hectic what is 571? It reminds me of that picture you sent me

[Ame]

Hectic can I get your answers to these:

Could you go over these reads?

(I see you actually went over me and NK15 already so you can skip those)

Also Hectic I was confused by this. You scum read her because she is playing differently from her scum game?

HURT: Pink Ball

[Ame]

Oh I see. 571

was

a response to my question lol.

So, did she assume scum didn't have a PT at all?

Correct. Rule 15 doesn't mention that scum can communicate. I agree that is a weird assumption considering they would need to communicate for the faction kill. However, I think it's more likely that she realized this after NK's post and just hasn't conceded due to personality factors.

Usually, when I don't know someone's face, they appear in my dream sort of like things appear in your peripheral vision. But when I do view them directly, they often have a different appearance from scene to scene. So it's usually more about their spirit/essence than their physical appearance.

[Ame]

Jemaine, I think we should decide the leader publicly before Night. That would eliminate your concern and mine. We vote for leader here and then everyone who is a part of the quest votes for who reached majority.

[Ame]

I think it's more likely to flip red though. (1) My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, (2) a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, (3) and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

How much weight would you say each of these contributes toward you scum read?

[Ame]

r*

[Ame]

And what % would you say you scumread Spring?

[Ame]

[Ame]

I'm here just...kind of having a depressive episode today. Give me some slack and I'll be here.

I feel you Pine. Do what's best for you.

[Ame]

So, you pushed someone to L-1 and they claimed a power role to avoid being captured.

She claimed at L-2 unprovoked. Additionally, this is no different than if we had been lynching.

I now think most of his posts and ideas serve to muddy the waters for town more than anything else.

Now you're scum reading based on disagreement in strategy? Do you not see the validity in our point of view?

The fucking rule says and if they are aligned with the Mafia, they will lose 1 XP.

Oh wow I didn't realize this. This is even more reason to capture.

Now ask yourself what the scum motive would be to picking that and why so blatantly? And if it was scum motivated why haven't the rest of the team tried to support it at any point?

If this is the case, why was I on your scum team at one point?

We have started the game with 1 xp ourselves and it takes 4 xp for us to upgrade. We have no special abilities at the start so we are effectively vanilla until n5 if we rely on training alone. However we do have an alternative way of gaining 1 xp and neighborizer would have triggered it thus effectively making us able to upgrade one day/night earlier.

Why did you claim all this? This is strange coming from someone who prefers to keep information concealed from scum. Did you feel that threatened by Farkset that you felt you needed to claim?

[Ame]

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

This is a false dichotomy though that doesn't leave room for town motivation in either case. Which slots would you scum read if she flipped town and which slots would you scum read if she flipped scum? Also, why did you ask me about the RPG thing?

[Ame]

Ame is a darling.

Your pocket is comfy, I think I'll stay.

Is it crude to suggest that I am tempted to not quest simply because Ame is not?

It is not. Don't leave me alone out here in the wild :c

What do you think about deciding the leader toDay so that town influence is at its peak? I see no reason why it needs to be decided during the quest.

What do you two mean by refrigerator?

Dying of hunger.
There's only one salvation.
Refrigerator.

Hectic,

Vote to end the day. Capturing yields more detriment to town than benefit, specifically the first dayphase.

There is less clear benefit since there are a total of 6 candidates of capture, currently. Town numerically consists of half.

I find that this is a gamestate that benefits mafia.

If we can pinpoint a good candidate, I think it's more beneficial the first day because it sets mafia back two days. Mafia are the only confirmed players that require XP to use their ability (looking at the previous game, there was only one town role that required XP to use their ability). Unless otherwise stated, we each start out with 1 XP. The mafia kill is 1 XP. Capturing prevents a mafia member from performing the kill for two nights as they lose an XP and are prevented from gaining an XP N1. This forces one of the two other members to expend XP to do the kill. This increases our odds of blocking or tracking the kill because blocker/tracker knows that they don't need to be on the captured player. Furthermore, if mafia all start out with 1 XP (which I don't think is a poor assumption) and they are unable to gain XP by some other means N1, TWO mafia members will be unable to kill N2 because they will both need to train. Furthermore, say we lynch scum tomorrow and it was the player that did the kill. That also leaves only one scum able to perform the kill the following Night, which is even more to our advantage. Capturing town is not a big deal in my opinion because they can still use their ability the following Night, unlike scum. Limiting an opponents options, cornering them, and forcing them to have to play in a certain way is always my preferred strategy.

[Ame]

Hectic, I'm not sure yet for capture. For leader, I would like Spring.

I thought I dismantled all your reasons for scumSpring?

Your new avatar is

fire

btw.

[Ame]

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

[Ame]

lol here ya go


I changed my mind on Spring in 549. Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

[Ame]

So I've been thinking about this and I think it's best I claim. When I die, I become a treestump and the lynch mechanic activates. I've been trying to play in a way so as to draw the night kill, but with two claims now and seeing as FOC's, in particular, suggests a strong PR, I think that's probably not happening. So I'm claiming now to suggest that perhaps vig can aim for me tonight? I think there may be another way to activate the mechanic also because it says it will activate when I die

unless

it's already activated.

[Ame]

I'm not sure, it just says I'll be able to talk in thread. I was going to try to crumb something, but I couldn't think of a way that would beat out FOC's claim without overtly lying in a way that could be hurtful.

[Ame]

Oh wait, yep it does say I will flip.

[Ame]

Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Can you address this, Hectic? I'm trying to understand why you're pushing for Spring capture when you no longer have a valid reason for doing so.

[Ame]

Wait, no. I admit I'm trying to find reasons to scumread her, but:
-Her unprompted claim. Not bringing it up at any point after.
-745
-Her reads/takes completely disalign with my own.

I don't see anywhere else that's better right now.

-The unprompted claim seemed pretty townie though. I've never seen scum claim in that fashion, have you? FoC's is far more suspicious because it was for justification purposes.
-What is scummy about 745?
-What is scummy about that? Are your reads strong?

I don't think in your heart (or possibly mind) you really believe she is scum. Don't let the bias cloud your judgment! If Spring is just a fallback why haven't you pushed anyone else? Also why do you keep engaging with Spring when clearly nothing is coming out of your interaction except a loop of 'NO U'

(lol Ginngie)

[Ame]

I could go Pink Ball or momo. Do you not town lean Giingie? I thought you like their response before?

[Ame]

Hectic (1) what do you think about the case Farkset made in 454? (2) What do you think about the reasoning in their post here:

Unless i have past experiences with you, i'd like to see you quote some posts of mine that are surface level and delusional/manipulative.

For the record, based on this post, 550 and 313 VS the "opposition" i think there is a clear fracture around springlullaby and how to treat her slot. There is only one reason currently to believe she could be town, and that's how others are behaving around her. I think it's more than plausible that scum are putting up a theater to achieve several results:

1) distance themselves by having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are siding against her (and the majority) are pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are siding with her will be pocketing her hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

(3) Are you able to interpret the first part of 760? And if so could you translate? If not, what's your best guess?

[Ame]

I keep thinking Ginngie is spelt as Giingie too! Is that because you've been spelling it wrong since the start?

I swear to god I just looked at it before and it was Giingie. Mandala effect in real time!

HURT: momo

[Ame]

Good Night!

[Ame]

Are you trying to haunt my dreams with whatever that is or soemthing

You did say you wanted mafiascum dreams.

So I've been thinking about this and I think it's best I claim. When I die, I become a treestump and the lynch mechanic activates. I've been trying to play in a way so as to draw the night kill, but with two claims now and seeing as FOC's, in particular, suggests a strong PR, I think that's probably not happening. So I'm claiming now to suggest that perhaps vig can aim for me tonight? I think there may be another way to activate the mechanic also because it says it will activate when I die

unless

it's already activated.

Are you insane? Do you want scum to auto - win by roleblocking you without end?

Do NOT join the quest, at least.

That's not how roleblock works.

[Ame]

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

My question is why do you ask?

Lady Chloe, and to a lesser extent you for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

So if Spring flips town you think Lady and I are scum TMIing her? And if she flips scum Lady is chainsawing her? Why am I not town simply town reading her. Do you think the points you've brought up for scum!spring are strong? Also you've put Lady in a position where she is scum in either case: TMIing for potentially supporting a Spring vote, chainsawing for voting end of day. This comes off to me as a bad faith push as you are preparing to conclude that she is scum in either case.

This is correct - including the "not so easier" part. However, do you (@Ame) disagree that the town is fractured around springlullaby and that we can clearly identify those who are protecting her and those who are attacking her? Have you been wondering why? I find it hard to believe there are reasons so extreme to lean springlullaby town as to see people willing to end the day instead of capturing - anyone, not just springlullaby - just to save her. Just as it is weird to me to see people advocating for springlullaby as a quest leader. It's an unbelievable level of confidence at this point in time, but you are also part of these people and i wonder if i have been missing something, because i don't particularly scumread you, if i take you independently of springlullaby.

I think scumreading Spring is rather odd at this point. And I think it's suspicious that you haven't been able to give me a clear answer on who specifically you would read based on each flip. If it will be easier to see who is protecting/chainsawing, then you should be able to just imagine that she has flipped and tell me who you scum/town read, yes? I feel like you may not be reading Spring with sincerity and that perhaps your distaste for her play so far is biasing your judgment?

[Ame]

Raya, what do you like about the Pine post? Have you played with Pine before?

[Ame]

Also Raya, what are your thoughts on Ginnie. And on Farkset's and Hectic's Spring push?

[Ame]

momo, Pink Ball, Farkset, Pine are you all good with choosing the leader today through majority vote? We can vote using Leader: Player.

[Ame]

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

It does, thank you. Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Also @Kerset head I'm curious about the RPG thing.

[Ame]

I think it's kind of tunneling. There are some cases but they seem more like they're forced cases in my opinion. I need to look more into it but I think it is possible one of the two are scum pushing for an easy target. That said I get a bit overwhelmed in games where this kind of stuff goes on for pages so this is just what I got out of a skim of it.

Which of the two do you think has the higher potential to be scum?

[Ame]

momo

Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

Should be noted that Hectic is taking a very distinct approach to this game...playing in a highly questioning manner. Haven’t played with him before, but I think his slot will prove to be readable by comparing the questioning tone with his recent games.

(1) Have you done either of these yet? The meta dives that is.
(2) Who do you find suspicious other than Spring?
(3) What do you think of the reasoning presented in 454?
(4) What's the origin of your username? I think of momo from A:TLA. But also of peaches.

Pine

(1) What do you think of the town read on you by Ginnie?
(2) What do you think of the town read on you by Farkset?
(3) What do you think of the town read on you by Raya?
(4) Who would you be suspicious of if Spring is town?

Lady

(1) What

is

your read on Spring?
(2) What are your thoughts on Raya? In particular, I'm curious what you think about her read on you and on Pine as presented in 854.
(3) I don't think momo ever responded to your 282 or did he? If not, how come you haven't followed up on it? If so, what did you get (or intend to) get out of it?
(4) My spidey senses are going off about the quest. Please join me? I don't have a logical reason or anything, it's just intuition.

Pink Ball

(1) Have you made any progress on your Hectic read?
(2) What do you make of his progression here:

Spoiler:

Hectic,
I thought I dismantled all your reasons for scumSpring?

I thought you wanted to capture springlullaby a little while ago because she was lowering morale/spirits? Pushing her as leader encourages her behaviour and does the opposite.

Honestly, I have no idea what alignment springlullaby is, but I would feel really bad if she was scum and I townread her for this play. Admittedly, my vote is very biased.

I changed my mind on Spring in 549. Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Your reasons for voting Spring were shown to be deficient in 585 and 602.

Can you address this, Hectic? I'm trying to understand why you're pushing for Spring capture when you no longer have a valid reason for doing so.

grumble grumble
Fine. My vote is entirely biased at this point. Now, the question is where I should be voting instead.

Wait, no. I admit I'm trying to find reasons to scumread her, but:
-Her unprompted claim. Not bringing it up at any point after.
-745
-Her reads/takes completely disalign with my own.

I don't see anywhere else that's better right now.

-The unprompted claim seemed pretty townie though. I've never seen scum claim in that fashion, have you? FoC's is far more suspicious because it was for justification purposes.
-What is scummy about 745?
-What is scummy about that? Are your reads strong?

I don't think in your heart (or possibly mind) you really believe she is scum. Don't let the bias cloud your judgment! If Spring is just a fallback why haven't you pushed anyone else? Also why do you keep engaging with Spring when clearly nothing is coming out of your interaction except a loop of 'NO U'

Sigh, who should I vote then, Ame? I think Pink Ball, Giingie, and momo are probably worth looking into.

I could go Pink Ball or momo. Do you not town lean Giingie? I thought you like their response before?

HURT: momo

(3) 718 !

Ginnie

(1) Do you have an impression of mastina's alignment?
(2) Does mastina town read you when you're town regardless of her alignment? Or has she ever pushed you when she was scum?
(3) TT Go is actually pretty funny!

mastina

(1) yo where you @ dawg

[Ame]

Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Is it your intention to ask what sounds like a loaded question,

(1)

or just a coincidence? I'm starting to get paranoid of this line of thought because the day sentiment is to prevent spamming, and yet i am asked to drag a dead argument forward -

(2)

it's ok if you have your reasons to do so, but i'd like you to explain what you wanted to achieve by asking this.

I mean, you seem to imply that i have a method to ascertain your alignment with 100% accuracy after springlullaby flips. Obviously i don't. I just have my opinion, which is only valid for the current state of things, by which

(3)

i would look at springlullaby mid-to-late attackers first if she flips town; otherwise i would look at people who supported her for little reason.

(4)

Townreading springlullaby, or townreading scum in general, does not make you inherently scum. It only makes it more plausibly so if you didn't have a reason to be wrong on your read.

-Farkran

I just wanted specifics. The way you've been wording it, such as in Line

3

, looks like a way to adapt your opinion as you see fit. I wasn't looking for you to say player X is 100% Z if Spring flips Y. I as looking for you to say I would suspect player X, if Spring flips Y. If you know that your suspicions would increase based on certain actions and a certain flip, then you should be able to specifically say who you would suspect based on their actions in the event of said flip.

I got the impression from your original post on the matter that you were attempting to set up a scum read on me and Lady without committing to it, so I wanted you to specifically state it. From the way you have gone about partially answering over this series of posts, I suspect you are playing with optics in mind and that you didn't want to directly confront me. Even now, you're being fairly political (lines

1

and

2

).

In 553, in the event of town!Spring, you speculated that scum are either pushing LHF or TMI town-reading her and attempting to pocket. This gives you the option to scumread both the people that are pushing her and the people that are town reading her in the event of a town flip. This leads me to suspect that your speculation was agenda-driven because it left no way to conclude anything about her flip (I'm just going to say her flip for the rest of her post because saying town!flip every time is a bit pedantic). In other words, the post can be summed up as "If Spring flips town, anyone can be scum." What was the town intent behind this post, because as I see it there is no town value, only scum value—positioning and leaving options open for future pushes.

Furthermore, in that post, you linked my 550 as one of the people town reading her, meaning you were speculating that I was on the TMI town-reading her side of things. Yet over this conversation, you've changed that to having suspicion of me if Sring flips

scum

:

860

The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum.

Verified in line

4

above.

This is what I mean about leaving your options open and presuming scum in either case: if she flipped town I would be scum TMI reading her, but if she flipped scum, I would be scum too? The conclusion is coming

before

the evidence, which is a sign of an agenda-driven argument. Currently, you're my top suspicion.

Here is the full course of our conversation for convenience's sake:

Spoiler:

@Fark
@Hectic
@momo

You guys never try to evolve or learn from your mistakes, do you? Always surface level reads and always trying to fit the game narrative to your preconceived delusional way of seeing things.

P.S. If Ame is town aligned then add her to the list above.

-Jemaine

Unless i have past experiences with you, i'd like to see you quote some posts of mine that are surface level and delusional/manipulative.

For the record, based on this post, 550 and 313 VS the "opposition" i think there is a clear fracture around springlullaby and how to treat her slot. There is only one reason currently to believe she could be town, and that's how others are behaving around her. I think it's more than plausible that scum are putting up a theater to achieve several results:

1) distance themselves by having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are siding against her (and the majority) are pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are siding with her will be pocketing her hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

This is dependant on springlullaby's flip though and i can't get over some of her posts, so i'm not changing my vote there for today. It will not achieve a flip, but it is the correct choice and despite the above reasoning there is no small chance that spring will flip scum when a flip is available.

-Farkran

but it is the correct choice and despite the above reasoning there is no small chance that spring will flip scum when a flip is available.

What's the above reasoning? The above was a presentation of town!Spring wasn't it? Also you're saying that me and Lady are pocketing spring? Does that mean you scum read me?
:

I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though. I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. (1) My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, (2) a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, (3) and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

How much weight would you say each of these contributes toward you scum read?

Roughly 50% (random is 23%)

I dislike spring's early posts, then she improved on tone but content is still lackluster. i misjudged her player profile at first, i think she is the type of player to be excessively stubborn as either alignment - pretty similar to me - and that would explain why the cases against hectic and me are pretty much "you don't agree with me so you must be scum", which is an ok argument to make initially if you want the game to progress, but it needs to be explored and confronted with your reads of other people. You may be unable to remove confbias as town, but when you don't even try it usually comes from scum. And that claim was bad.

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

-Farkran

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

This is a false dichotomy though that doesn't leave room for town motivation in either case. Which slots would you scum read if she flipped town and which slots would you scum read if she flipped scum? Also, why did you ask me about the RPG thing?

Now though - as i said, the main point that i want to make on springlullaby is that the town (as in all the playerlist) is completely divided around her. There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

This is a false dichotomy though that doesn't leave room for town motivation in either case. Which slots would you scum read if she flipped town and which slots would you scum read if she flipped scum? Also, why did you ask me about the RPG thing?

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

Lastly, post 750-752 is how i would express myself if i was good at communicating.

Sleeptime, good night everyone

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

Yes, sorry. If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and to a lesser extent you for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

My question is why do you ask?

Lady Chloe, and to a lesser extent you for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

So if Spring flips town you think Lady and I are scum TMIing her? And if she flips scum Lady is chainsawing her? Why am I not town simply town reading her. Do you think the points you've brought up for scum!spring are strong? Also you've put Lady in a position where she is scum in either case: TMIing for potentially supporting a Spring vote, chainsawing for voting end of day. This comes off to me as a bad faith push as you are preparing to conclude that she is scum in either case.

This is correct - including the "not so easier" part. However, do you (@Ame) disagree that the town is fractured around springlullaby and that we can clearly identify those who are protecting her and those who are attacking her? Have you been wondering why? I find it hard to believe there are reasons so extreme to lean springlullaby town as to see people willing to end the day instead of capturing - anyone, not just springlullaby - just to save her. Just as it is weird to me to see people advocating for springlullaby as a quest leader. It's an unbelievable level of confidence at this point in time, but you are also part of these people and i wonder if i have been missing something, because i don't particularly scumread you, if i take you independently of springlullaby.

I think scumreading Spring is rather odd at this point. And I think it's suspicious that you haven't been able to give me a clear answer on who specifically you would read based on each flip. If it will be easier to see who is protecting/chainsawing, then you should be able to just imagine that she has flipped and tell me who you scum/town read, yes? I feel like you may not be reading Spring with sincerity and that perhaps your distaste for her play so far is biasing your judgment?

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe, but i would likely townlean you. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

It does, thank you. Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Also @Kerset head I'm curious about the RPG thing.

Just to clarify though, you'd look at me more if spring flips scum but not if she flips town?

Is it your intention to ask what sounds like a loaded question, or just a coincidence? I'm starting to get paranoid of this line of thought because the day sentiment is to prevent spamming, and yet i am asked to drag a dead argument forward - it's ok if you have your reasons to do so, but i'd like you to explain what you wanted to achieve by asking this.

I mean, you seem to imply that i have a method to ascertain your alignment with 100% accuracy after springlullaby flips. Obviously i don't. I just have my opinion, which is only valid for the current state of things, by which i would look at springlullaby mid-to-late attackers first if she flips town; otherwise i would look at people who supported her for little reason.

Townreading springlullaby, or townreading scum in general, does not make you inherently scum. It only makes it more plausibly so if you didn't have a reason to be wrong on your read. For instance, i don't see what reasons you have to assign quest leadership to springlullaby, even if you townread her - it seems too much of a stretch, why are you not doubting springlullaby alignment in this circumstance, instead trusting the +1 xp and the item reward in favor of the town? Of course we will need to choose a leader, and player A isn't better or worse than player B until we don't know their alignment, but why would you go specifically against the flow and pick the currently highest consensus scumread as your leader? Do you have reason to think your read is more accurate than everyone else scumreading her? If so, why?

-Farkran

For instance, i don't see what reasons you have to assign quest leadership to springlullaby, even if you townread her - it seems too much of a stretch, why are you not doubting springlullaby alignment in this circumstance, instead trusting the +1 xp and the item reward in favor of the town? Of course we will need to choose a leader, and player A isn't better or worse than player B until we don't know their alignment, but why would you go specifically against the flow and pick the currently highest consensus scumread as your leader? Do you have reason to think your read is more accurate than everyone else scumreading her? If so, why?

~I think Spring's play is obvious town. The crudeness. The claim. Her reads. The points she's made (except there was one about Hectic that was really silly, as well as her points on me, but otherwise).
~How is she the highest consensus scum read? Youish, Hecticish, momo, NK, Pine scum read her. Me, Pink, FoC, Raya strongly town read her. Lady, mastina, Ginnie haven't voiced an opinion (that I remember).

@Lady, you've voiced suspicions of Fark. @Spring @FoC, you and I scumread Fark. @Raya, you believe that one of Hectic and Fark is scum. @Pink, you think one of the Spring's wagoners is scum. Let us form an alliance, for today at least, and capture Fark.

HURT: Farkset

Leader: Spring

[Ame]

No. This is what you forced upon me, the false dichotomy that you've been talking about but was never there in the first place. The true dichotomy is "people who behaved weirdly around springlullaby" VS "people who had reasons behind their behavior around springlullaby". And it's different than what you said there.

Nope. It's literally what you said:

1) distance themselves by

having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby

2) those who are

siding against her

(and the majority) are

pushing a very easy lhf

3) those who are

siding with her

will be

pocketing her

hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

There are people whiteknighting him for very little reason and people who instead sheep the attackers. Depending on her flip i think

we can identify if she was being TMIed town or chainsaw defended as scum.

[Ame]

Like you changed it two times. First it was scum going after LHF vs scum pocketing her (literally the whole point of your original post was this), then it was to scum TMIing town vs scum chainsaw defending scum. And now it's people who are weird vs people who are not. You changed as you went along.

Here are more examples of you playing politically/with optics in mind btw:

Spoiler:

(1) I don't think i ever towncased springlullaby though.

I think there is a fracture around her slot, which makes her flip significative, not more likely to be any of the two - if i had to talk about that post alone.

I think it's more likely to flip red though. My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction, a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering, and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

-Farkran

pedit: oh shit, i had started writing this like one hour ago, forgot the tab open, and now i'm like 20 posts behind. This was a response to Ame's 585

(2) Jemaine, what are your actual intentions? I might sometimes overlook detail but i am trying my best to exchange my views with others to figure out the best action by working with them. Is this your help?

Here you pull old farkran post to prove your point that he is unskilled...
You expect everyone to sheep you in Neighborizering and No capturing but you disappear instead of debating it. It is obvious that we don't follow you, when you never speak about perks of your plan. Do you hope that discrediting every other idea will make us pick yours out of elimination?
~Kerset

(3) Chloe, i scumlean you - i have no issues with you as a person. I feel the need to correct wrong opinions and providing my own, but i don't want you to stop talking.

As you can see, i'm not immune to mistakes though.

-Farkran

The dichotomy isn't described by that last sentence - i mean, those would be the scummy people who interacted poorly around spring. The true dichotomy is wk vs attack, and those can be sorted by spring flip.

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what it's saying. Who specifically would you scum read from Spring's flip based on the way she has been treated so far. Earlier you implied that you would scum read me and Lady upon a town flip. Is this the case? This is the third time I'm asking this btw.

As for the rpg, i want to see what hectic ends up concluding. And it's a fun read.

I'm referring to your 556. Did you mention Hectics cyoa thing somewhere?

(4)

Yes, sorry.

If springlullaby flips town, those who attacked her hard have higher scum equity and i'll be more incline to believe her most confident defenders have been TMIing her. If she flips scum, the strong attackers have less scum equity and i would look into those who attacked her attackers. Rarely scum do whiteknight their partners this early in the game - if they go about defending them, it's usually more subtle, such as a low-to-moderate chainsaw defense tactic.

That said, this does not guarantee a confident read on anyone, and currently my main reads are that springlullaby and conchorde are independently scummy for their dayplay. Lady Chloe, and

(5) to a lesser extent you

for wanting springlullaby as a leader, are dependent on her flip.

Also 556 is from Kerset, i think he's asking what RPG mechanics are you referring to, which would be xp and levelup.

-Farkran

@ame
The difference between you and chloe is that i scumlean chloe indipendently of springlullaby.

If springlullaby didn't exist, i would still scumlean chloe,

(6)

but i would likely townlean you

. The potential associative is there for both, but i'd look at you with more suspicion if springlul flips scum. Does that make sense as an explanation of my thought process?

I admit that i dislike springlul playstyle as either alignment, but i'm trying to analyze the slot impartially. I have no such distaste for chloe though, even if i still scumlean her.

Also raya, don't you think that scum would be able to fake being a mediator, wrt chloe 848? If you read that tonally, does it strike you as town as Pine's introductory plea? I think they ask for similar things but are immensely different tonewise.

Last but not least, i support hectic or raya for quest leader, as an alternative to myself.

-Farkran

Line 1

: "I don't think" is hedgey. You did or you didn't

Line 2

: LAMIST (this one by Ker)

Line 3

: Unprovoked damage control

Line 4

: Unecessarily apologetic.

Line 5

: Backtracking/Damage control.

Line 6

: Further Damage control.

[Ame]

Lastly, your progression on Spring is off. You're insistent that they are the scummiest person in the universe and that it's absurd for anyone to town read her, despite the fact that you were beginning to town read her in 436. What's even more jarring is the fact that you portrayed yourself as being "convinced" by Hectic in this post, when he was just using the same reasoning you used to convince

him

in the first place (291 + 384).

Additionally, these were your reasons for scumreading Spring at one point (604):

I think it's more likely to flip red though.

(1)

My scumread is based on her posts shortly after her introduction,

(2)

a (admittedly very reachy) tinfoil theory about the quest ordering,

(3)

and last but not least the role/xp requirement claim.

1

This is weak as you had already determined it was null until you were "reconvinced" 291, 384.

2

This is based on the case you made in 454, which I find to be the scummiest post in the game, and one of the silliest things to scumread someone for, due to all the assumptions you're making and the fact that Spring's response to your question prior disproved your point.

3

As I've pointed out, Spring was saying "in 1 XP," meaning she already has XP as the rules say and the 1 XP from leader will allow her to upgrade. Additionally, the way she claimed off-the-cuff was townie.

So the fact that you have been so convinced that she is scum doesn't seem legitimate, as the reasoning presented is severely deficient, especially point 2 which was the justification you used to vote her.

[Ame]

Superficially, they look the same, but his tone is completely different in those. It's a good enough counter to kill that leg of the argument, however, so I won't waste either of our time going into it.

[Ame]

Farkran I don't care about 892. I'll take Kerset's word that this is your normal approach. You've not addressed the strongest component of my case: 893. Furthermore, your response to 887 and 891 are unsatisfactory as you have failed to address the actual points I am making, and instead are straw-manning, making the argument about me wanting you to have 100% reads, when in reality I care nothing of the sort.

Components of Ame's Case

[1] 887 + 891

insufficient response

[2] 892

successfully countered

[3] 893

unaddressed

[Ame]

Im gonna make the bold claim that everyone over 100 posts as of this moment is town.

This seems deraily.

[Ame]

Hectic

, do you agree or disagree that the dichotomy Farkset originally presented in 553 is different from that presented in 760/888 (the relevant snippet can be found in 891)?

I also would like these addressed when you get the chance: bottom line of 792 and 2&3 of 798.

[Ame]

Spoiler:

<Your daily FARKSCUM interlude>

In a game where scum have incentive to doubt others at any possible angle

Very good point.++

If you read Farkset. I mean

really

read it *cougPinecough* you'll see that you'll get a vague ok impression at first, because the slot speaks a lot.
BUT if you filter for what is said, the net total of about all their posts repeat a same single message: "everyone can be suspicious".
He has up until now, even on me who is "50/50", provided exactly zero read.

</Your daily FARKSCUM interlude>

^This

How can you tell I'm here lurking, Ame?

It says you're online on the bottom of the page.

[Ame]

How can you tell I'm here lurking, Ame?

It says you're online on the bottom of the page.

You're bamboozling me, right?

Prove it with a screenshot.

https://i.ibb.co/NmWShfM/ms/snippet015.jpg

[Ame]

xD

[Ame]

^This

Like the "sorting" reads really fake to me:

Spoiler:

I think the risk for disaster is too high compared to the benefit. Effort put into mechbreaking the setup is still town points to me though - i don't think scum would try that much to validate a train cop strategy

I am still unable to sort you based on this, because there is a significant chance that you are tunneled town, but you should reread your own words and mine by making sure to remove confbias - you will realize that i have my own reasons to say what i have said, and you have been unable or unwilling to understand them.

Honestly - you put effort into this case, but it's weak, reachy and loaded. This is worth analyzing - is this outside of your scumrange? Please link some of your scumgames.

Still waiting for your scumgames, i'm going to search for them anyways later but i'd be grateful if you could save me the effort.

[Ame]

Ginnie, why have you been upset these past couple of pages? It seems to have come out of nowhere. Why don't you think Fark flips scum? You've seen high effort scum before. Mastina made analysis posts three times as long in the previous XP mafia.

@Fark omg that looks awesome! I'm going to read it in a bit.

[Ame]

Fark, my issue with you is that (a) you're not actually addressing the points that I'm making and (b) you're misconstruing my motivations. I am not at all tunneling you and very much open to the idea that you are town. You began to claim that I was tunneling you (or that my questions were loaded) after

one

post (I made the first part of my case in 889, the first time I voice suspicion, and you immediately began to portray it as tunneling). Yet at every step of the process, I have been open to you dismantling my suspicions, and I desire it.

~I provided an outline in 929 on what I would specifically like addressed. And showed that I'm willing to accept an adequate counter.
~I've labeled each piece of evidence so that you can easily address and dismantle them 893.
~I've outlined the entire scope of our conversation so you can see where I am perceiving contradictions 889.

I was absolutely being genuine in 876. Your explanation made sense and I was ready to drop the matter. I wasn't at all expecting you to answer the way you did. I thought you made a typo and meant "if springlul flips town." I was sincere in my request for clarification, but you assumed I was asking you to get you in some sort of gotcha, and your whole approach to my case is based on that. I'm not trying to trap you, I'm trying to come to an understanding. I very much would like for the other two components my case to turn

green

, but for that to occur I need you to understand that (a) I am not as close-minded as you think, (b) I can only judge you by the words you've actually said not what you wish they said, and (c) I need the points addressed directly, sequentially, and logically.

For instance, you claiming that

I think the scum team is distancing themselves by being on the opposite ends of

town!Spring: Some are pocketing her

and

some are going for low hanging fruit.

is that same as

Depending on her flip we can determine if she was

townSpring being pocketed

or

scumSpring being chainsaw defended.

or as

Depending on her flip, we can determine

who was being weird

and

who was being genuine

.

is illogical. They are NOT the same, and you claiming otherwise tells me that you are either not being intellectually sincere or you are too caught up with your own preconceived notions behind my motivations that you're unable to see the reason behind my concerns and thus incapable of explaining them in an adequate manner.

The last version of the dichotomy is acceptable, but it is not at all what you were speculating about IN YOUR ORIGINAL POST:

There is only one reason currently to believe she could be town, and that's how others are behaving around her. I think it's more than plausible that scum are putting up a theater to achieve several results:

1) distance themselves by having the scumteam side with or against springlullaby
2) those who are siding against her (and the majority) are pushing a very easy lhf
3) those who are siding with her will be pocketing her hard because she is the one with surface reads/reactions

[Ame]

@Ginnie I know exactly what you mean! I had to take a break a while back as I was becoming hella cranky. Feel better :3!! I think Fark's post very much can come from scum, mainly because I've done something nearly identical in order to be town read. Here's the post.

@Fark, that's the link to my scum game. It's the only one I have on here. I didn't provide it before because I wanted to see you go through all my town games :3

Some notes on your analysis:
~I experiment with different play styles in different games. Those games that I replaced into, Mini Normal 2121 - Ame VT, and that one you two were in and quick lynched me as soon as I replaced in, I was trying out a style where I primarily read in ISO the players that were living, without bothering to read everything else. As you see, that didn't turn out so well.
~In this game, I am trying to avoid meta diving, similar to here. But like there, I will probably eventually give in because it's honestly my best method of reading people.


@Raya, I'll join the quest if I'm elected leader.

@Lady, yes please leave the quest. Ideally, I'd like a few of us off. I'm currently off. If I join due to leader, I'd still like for this to be the case. A safe measure.

[Ame]

Spring, I am considering your request. The tsundare nature of it is hard to say no to. Is the below true?

962 is clearly made with the intent of driving leader competition out of the quest

@Farkran, that was beautifully written and exactly what I was looking for. I will take some time to process it.

@Kerset, I will respond to your questions in a bit. People have a hard enough time reading 1v1's as it is, so I didn't want to muddle it further by having a parallel conversation.

@Spring @FoC @NK could you address the discrepancies Farkran pointed out regarding your progression? Basically, can you walk us through your thought processes?

[Ame]

I have no reason to follow-up until he has. I still suspect him.

Do you find him suspicious independently of the discrepancy between Spring's treatment of him and Hectic?

Also, do you notice anything peculiar about 974?

@Raya

, I'd like your input as well.

[Ame]

Please verify the info I'm giving with whether you think I just said is accurate,

It is accurate.

@Farkset

, given Spring's outline of her voting pattern here, do you still maintain the below?

Can you notice that all the votes from springlullaby are reactionary attacks to people who voted her? There is no trace of scumhunting, the only scum are people who vote springlullaby at any given time.

So again, I'll ask you, I would like you to stay outside of the quest. Y/NO?

This somewhat depends on your answer to the above. Also, scum are probably going to want to sabotage leader so don't you think it's a good idea I be there?

Ame has this nasty habit of being REALLY good at scum, so the paranoia will always be there

You've never had this concern in previous games. Why now?

Ame, did you think about the route of claiming a cop? You could've done this in several ways, like pretending to get aggravated into in-the-moment(I forgot the word for it) claiming, or you could've acted scummy so that you got run up by votes, and then claimed with reasoning to avoid getting roleblocked. I think you could've pulled it off and fooled scum.

As I said, I didn't want to go that route and lie because I could potentially out the real cop or other PR via counterclaim.

[Ame]

Farkest, do you notice anything peculiar about 974?

[Ame]

Well for 2 those are the first couple major wagons if I recall correctly. And for 3, that was not a solid case.

What do you make of this?

[Ame]

~I think Spring's play is obvious town. The crudeness. The claim. Her reads. The points she's made (except there was one about Hectic that was really silly, as well as her points on me, but otherwise)

I want you to elaborate this. What are spring reads aside of those two you mention?

These:

Spoiler:

I voted momo early day to start somewhere, it went nowhere (aka zero reply) -> they voted me when I moved to Hectic.
I voted Hectic when I caught something scummy from them, dropped the vote when I saw Giingie do something scummy -> Hectic voted me the second I dropped the vote
I voted Giingie for a post in which he describes scum buddying behavior that he is exhibing in this very game, it was also a half joke/half fishing for reaction vote -> Giingie OMGUS me the few next posts.
I voted Farkscum, when he went overboard for the most scummy case I've seen in a while.
Someone asked for End-day, I think it's an ok compromise solution as the wagon is going nowhere anyway.
I went back to my vote on Farkran because it's where my true scum read lies.

It's not accurate and it does not counter my argument.

hectic = hectic had just recently called springlullaby obnoxious and abrasive (162, 166). That's not scumhunting, that's a personality driven vote, and nothing that hectic did up to that point was scummy.

She was scum reading him long before this: 127, 154. She describes her progression in 167.

gingie = he had just refused to have springlullaby as a leader (401). I can concede this is a joke vote from both sides, but it's not scumhunting.

Ginnie was joking about the leader thing, clearly. And she was BUDDYING her, not attacking her (398 and 408). This directly conflicts with your assertion.

Farkset = i had just recently voted her (454).

This is the only vote that aligns with your claim. However, her vote was justified. I had the same thoughts. Your justification for voting her in 454 reads forced because of how silly and convoluted the reasoning is.

You've agreed that it's reachy, do you not think her reaction to such a case is justified?

So Farkset, what this shows that the first vote you claimed to be reactionary (momo) was an RVS vote that preceded her opposer's; the second vote (Hectic) was based on a scum read that had been established long before her opposer began to imply distaste for her play; the third vote (Ginnie) was placed when her "opposer" was budding up to her and siding with her view on Hectic; and the fourth vote (You) was well justified. Even if you don't believe that the last one is justified, you surely have no grounds for the claim that all or even most of her votes are reactions to the people that voted her. So I ask again, do you maintain your claim?

[Ame]

I like the new avatar. Where's it from?

he he I knew you would ask. This one is also from Death Stranding (same characters as before).

[Ame]

Yes, I did my homework. Hectic being serious instead of jokey joke is NAI. Being intimidated and awkward, instead, are scumtraits from him.

Would you mind providing examples? Particularly of him being serious as town and of what you mean by awkward.

Town
Raya-Ame
FotC-Ginngie-Hectic
Pine-Pink Ball-springlullaby
Farkset
mastina-momo
Scum

Can you elaborate on your Hectic and mastina reads? Regarding mastina, why is she lower than null?

Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

You answered about Hectic, but what about Spring? It's been many a tmmrws.

Went through some of hectic's past games looking for tonal observations. I think that he is town.

Can you explain/provide examples of what sort of tonal observations?

Townread {Hectic} - solid metaread, still have to analyze the recent scumgame i found but i think i know hectic

Could you go into this?

[Ame]

Thank you Farkran, my line of questioning is done.

For the record, this is nowhere near the truth:

this is highlighted by the "do you maintain your claim" line, which can be paraphrased as "you're wrong, sucker, do you admit it or shall we go on for another year?"

I was assessing your objectivity.

@Kerset, there was no deliberate reason. As I said before, I wanted for my inquiry to be completed before addressing yours. I went back to answer your question and realized that our conversation already led to Spring posting what you sought.

[Ame]

@All

, my conclusion is that Farkset has a sizable chance of being scum.

454, I believe, is the biggest scum tell. The case is convoluted and relies on too many unreasonable assumptions [

1

]. It's not at all suspicious for Farkran to have speculated about this, but it is scummy that he used it as justification for his vote and continued to use it as one of his reasons for scum reading her later on [

2

]. Due to how low-value the case is (zero value actually) and its length (the measure of Farkset's investment toward it), I believe the case was made for the sake of looking sorty rather than actual sorting.

Farkran, there's no need for you to respond to this (unless you want to), I'm just posting my final thoughts.

Spoiler: Footnotes

1

. Primarily that Spring would need to, in private,

ask

Pink to join the quest. This isn't at all reasonable as it assumes that Spring's motivation for questing is independent of her being scum; whereas if she were scum here, it's likely that her quest plan is scum motivated and something the team are pressing for as a

unit

.

2

. 604: It's fine and dandy that he recognized that it was a reach, but that's not stopping him from using it.

[Ame]

I'm not a tunneler!

I have nothing to add

vote spring

[Ame]

Raya, thank you. Can you go into your progression on Farkset? Which posts are giving you townie vibes?
Also what was the reason Hectic was your top town read in 256?

Could you get back to me on it?

Yes, I'll get back to you.

[Ame]

Hectic I'll respond to that when I get answers to #1006 above.

[Ame]

Raya, I ask about Hectic because there was a discrepancy in the way you had read us:

Spoiler:

I would honestly consider anyone pushing for neighborizer to be scummy. It gains almost no useful and dependable information for town to use and also is a great way for scum to pocket and gain town trust.

Who do you think of the current people voting neighbouriser are scummy for it?

Momo isn't that bad because he made his case for why he believes neighborhoods are a good idea. I don't agree though.

I find Ame choosing neighborizer to be scummy because he even says that Strongman is the best choice but he's choosing neighborhoods because that's more fun.

Flight of the Conchords is definitely scummy for choosing neighborhoods especially since their reasoning was it's fun and they support the mafia strongman ability.

I don't understand why you're voting neighborizer when I believe you've said strongman is better and neighborizer is a bad idea.

Figured I'd do a quick reads list although most are null range this early on (All is ordered)

Town

Hectic

Farkset
Pink Ball

Null

Momo
mastina
Pine
Ginngie
Not Known 15

Ame

Ladu Chloe
springlullaby

Scum

Flight of the Conchords

Ok caught up. I'm not for train cop since it's a standard action. It just doesn't seem that useful unless it's a bonus option. It also seems more useful to mafia since they can use 2-3 train cops at once. Also, I disagree with mass train cop plans.
I think no strongman is the best option, but I actually like the neighborizer thing too, mainly because it seems fun. Hmm

VOTE: Neighborizor

I realize this is the unpopular choice, so consider me on disable strongman as well.

After realising the flaws with Train Cop, I kinda just wanna vote Neighbourhood for fun reasons now. VOTE: Neighbourhood

Momo, I agree, but you're missing situations where town cops/or strong PRs are forced to claim due to being driven up, and then scum can strongman while needing to kill them the next night.

Why is this so?

Regarding momo, I think there's a good chance he's scum. However, I feel better about capturing Farkset and would like to give momo the Night to prove to us he is town as he suggested being able to do.

[Ame]

Why did you scum read me?

[Ame]

Thank you, your explanations make sense and I like your tone. I'm just trying to understand why you didn't find Hectic voting neighborizer for fun (despite being for strongman) scummy but you found Ame voting for neighborizer for fun (despite being for strongman) scummy.

[Ame]

Thanks Raya! This is my last set of questions and I'm done:

1. Do you think your play so far is play you would have been able to do as scum? In other words, do you think you have played in a way that is distinguishable from scum play?

2. Are you playing differently than you did in Totally Real Food in your opinion?

[Ame]

Would you mind providing examples? Particularly of him being serious as town and of what you mean by awkward.

Also Pink, how do these impact your view:

Spoiler:

@clidd @dsj sheep me for win let's goooooo

God if you're town here

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

Wait a second I just noticed a contradiction:

You had literally not included me on any of your scum reads and the one time you said that it was me I changed your mind because you thought one of my comments was funny. You are the one being inconsistent.

dsj if you knew I was scumreading you before

why did you think neighbors were confirmed town to each other

? Surely you would have picked up that it wasn't the case from the way I was treating you?

Lul, I respect how cocky you are if you're scum. Unsure if I should be townreading or scumreading how you keep shifting attention/focus.

Coukd you explain why AaronFF was your third strongest scumread start of day and now seems to be your strongest townread?

UNVOTE: Farkset

(Temporary. I don't want to wake up to a hammer.)

[Ame]

@Lady may I have an answer to 1006?

[Ame]

Hm. I could see SvS.


Oh yeah Raya, the links are automatically removed if you do the highlight-quote method (highlight the text you want to quote from a post before pressing the quote button and it will only quote that bit), so I don't think momo removed the link intentionally.

Also what do you think of this:

would like to give momo the Night to prove to us he is town as he suggested being able to do.

momo said he will be able to prove he town during the quest. Don't you think we should allow him to do so?

I would say in totally real food I participated a lot more. I think I was within top 3 posters? I asked more questions and was actively scumhunting more. I think the reason for that was I had a read on the other top posters whereas here I do not which is making it very overwhelming for me.

Shouldn't scumhunting

help

you get a read on the top posters? In TRF you were questioning Furret immediately. Your read on them only came from that questioning. Why haven't you been inquiring in the same way here? For example, you thought I was scummy early in the day. Why didn't you question me at all to try and further your read?

[Ame]

I'm not a wallpost fan so I'm not really contributing a lot but I'm glad you guys are having fun!

Ok but can you answer my questions?

[Ame]

Reposting for your convenience:

Yes, I did my homework. Hectic being serious instead of jokey joke is NAI. Being intimidated and awkward, instead, are scumtraits from him.

Would you mind providing examples? Particularly of him being serious as town and of what you mean by awkward.

Also Pink, how do these impact your view:

Spoiler:

@clidd @dsj sheep me for win let's goooooo

God if you're town here

You know what, let's give this a spin. VOTE: Ame

You've felt opportunistic today, Ame. I think you were hoping some of us would latch onto your Doro scumread with how you were pushing it earlier, but now choose to evaporate it into thin air when no one does.

Wait a second I just noticed a contradiction:

You had literally not included me on any of your scum reads and the one time you said that it was me I changed your mind because you thought one of my comments was funny. You are the one being inconsistent.

dsj if you knew I was scumreading you before

why did you think neighbors were confirmed town to each other

? Surely you would have picked up that it wasn't the case from the way I was treating you?

Lul, I respect how cocky you are if you're scum. Unsure if I should be townreading or scumreading how you keep shifting attention/focus.

Coukd you explain why AaronFF was your third strongest scumread start of day and now seems to be your strongest townread?

[Ame]

I didn't answer on purpose.

Why would my read change with respect to those posts?

You can't link me the game or post that you used to determine that scum Hectic reacts awkwardly and the town Hectic also plays non-jokey?

[Ame]

And I'm asking if that game I quoted changes your opinion because it's a scum Hectic reaction that I think conflicts with your claim.

[Ame]

@momo

Scummiest attempt to get townread I have seen in a while. I shouldn’t need to explain this vote and won’t because I’m about to sleep, but I’ll write up my thoughts tmmrw after I meta dive spring.

You answered about Hectic, but what about Spring? It's been many a tmmrws.

Went through some of hectic's past games looking for tonal observations. I think that he is town.

Can you explain/provide examples of what sort of tonal observations?

[Ame]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

[Ame]

I'm not a wallpost fan so I'm not really contributing a lot but I'm glad you guys are having fun!

I didn't answer on purpose.

Me tbh

[Ame]

Is anyone willing to settle on Pink Ball?

I'm kind of at the point where Farkscum is creating so much bullshit in the thread that I just want them gone before I think about anything else.

- Bret

I've decided I don't want to capture Farkset today. The reason being that if we get the lynch mechanic tomorrow we shouldn't lynch the person we captured today (since they wont be able to NK). And I think Farkset's flip is more important than capturing them.

[Ame]

So does anyone want to volunteer to be captured today for potential lynch immunity tomorrow!? Pink? Hectic?

[Ame]

Awesome <3 Anyone else? Spring? Lady? Raya? I'd prefer one of you three honestly.

Free immunity

Raya?

[Ame]

Also thank you for the Pink read Hectic, I'll differ to you on that. btw what was your read/impression of me in the beginning of the game?

[Ame]

Also

Leader: NK15

My strongest town read.

Also Spring I accept your request.

[Ame]

defer*

Leader Count

Ame (4) - Pine, Pink Ball, Raya, Hectic
Spring (1) - FoC
Hectic (1) - Farkset
NK15 (1) - Ame

Not Voting: NK15, Lady, mastina, Ginnie, momo, Spring

Everyone on me, please move to one of the other wagons!

[Ame]

Lady, players like Pink have a hard time reading more than a few words. Others want dialogue. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to post in snippets to appease the former.

[Ame]

hey Ame you should pick us as leader instead, it would be the best choice

Go away :3

[Ame]

NK isn't town to you Bret?

Chloe, I ask about Hectic because I feel his play is more similar to his scum game than his town games. So I'm trying to see what everyone else is seeing.

[Ame]

@Hectic No pushes/little scum hunting/few reads. Like you're on the periphery of the game rather than the center. (this is pre v/la btw)

[Ame]

FoC you're the only alternative I'd feel comfortable with.


@Hectic, Raya, Chloe, Pine would you be willing to Leader NK or FoC?

[Ame]

Lady, I've liked almost every post by NK so far. In particular 272 and 296 which was his reaction to and explanation regarding Spring. It comes off as genuine town frustration and his explanation comes off a stream of conscious-y, as if he's working out the read in the post. And he engaged with me regarding mastina in an objective/solve-oriented manner: 357, 359, and 362.

My perspective on Hectic is in the ninjad post above.

[Ame]

What does this allude to?

These:

I've decided I don't want to capture Farkset today. The reason being that if we get the lynch mechanic tomorrow we shouldn't lynch the person we captured today (since they wont be able to NK). And I think Farkset's flip is more important than capturing them.

So does anyone want to volunteer to be captured today for potential lynch immunity tomorrow!? Pink? Hectic?

[Ame]

My only reason is that Spring seems to really not want me to be in the quest. I don't know why and haven't been able to figure it out from her answers. If we can get NK/FotC I'm off. Otherwise, I'll stay on.

[Ame]

Leader Count

Ame (5) - Pine, Pink Ball, Raya, Hectic, Lady, [FotC]
NK15 (2) - Ame, [Hectic]
FotC (2) - [Ame], [Lady]
Spring (1) - FotC
Hectic (1) - Farkset
Lady (1) - [[FotC]]
Raya (1) - [[[FotC]]]

Not Voting: NK15, mastina, Ginnie, momo, Spring

Key:
[] Second Choice
[[]] Third Choice
[[[]]] Fourth Choice

[Ame]

//Kerset I think we've gotten all we are going to get out of me-you dialogue for today. I just want to acknowledge you because being ignored is lame.

[Ame]

LOL

[Ame]

Also, Holy WHAT a shiki and Hectic hydra?! That's too much wonderfulness in one slot.

[Ame]

Because it will eliminate you from Night Kill PoE. The blow back if you're town isn't as significant since you'll be able to do things N2, whereas scum!you wouldn't.

[Ame]

Think of it as if one of our role's was:

Town Child

You may make yourself immune to being lynched the following day phase. Additionally, you will be mod-confirmed to have not performed the Night Kill.

[Ame]

Wait, hang on a second, Ame; where have you played with shiki before? Or is this on your super secret alt?

hehe

[Ame]

I definitely think you're the best choice for this btw Raya, so long as you agree to it.

[Ame]

Capture: Raya

(I was going to use hurt, but that's for those with monstrous blood)

[Ame]

If that's the case, I shall stay on, as I upgrade in 2 XP so I should be able to do so tonight. Additionally, since my ability is passive, it's best that I draw the sabotage, don't you think?

[Ame]

To clarify, I upgrade

at

2 XP. I already have 1 XP and sabotage doesn't prevent XP gains or uses in the same night. So once I get the XP from leader, I'll be able to upgrade then. (Already confirmed this with the mod).

[Ame]

@Farkset @Spring @Chloe @Hectic @Pink @momo @Pine @Ginnie @NK

Please make sure you have everything done that you want to be done and gently capture Raya when you are next online.

[Ame]

~Only players who participate in the quest can receive the item.
~Captured players cannot use bonus actions.
~The factional kill cost 1 XP. Captured mafia lose 1 XP. If a member has 0 XP, they cannot do the kill.

[Ame]

She volunteered and we are trusting that she is a rational agent.

[Ame]

@Spring

Spoiler:

If we can pinpoint a good candidate, I think it's more beneficial the first day because it sets mafia back two days. Mafia are the only confirmed players that require XP to use their ability (looking at the previous game, there was only one town role that required XP to use their ability). Unless otherwise stated, we each start out with 1 XP. The mafia kill is 1 XP. Capturing prevents a mafia member from performing the kill for two nights as they lose an XP and are prevented from gaining an XP N1. This forces one of the two other members to expend XP to do the kill. This increases our odds of blocking or tracking the kill because blocker/tracker knows that they don't need to be on the captured player. Furthermore, if mafia all start out with 1 XP (which I don't think is a poor assumption) and they are unable to gain XP by some other means N1, TWO mafia members will be unable to kill N2 because they will both need to train. Furthermore, say we lynch scum tomorrow and it was the player that did the kill. That also leaves only one scum able to perform the kill the following Night, which is even more to our advantage. Capturing town is not a big deal in my opinion because they can still use their ability the following Night, unlike scum.

[Ame]

we are trusting that she is a rational agent

[Ame]

Pink, Pine. You trust me, you trust Raya. Trust that we have good intentions, assume we aren't idiots, and ask questions later.

[Ame]

Pink, Pine.

[Ame]

You have claimed vote unlocking tree trunk. Are you also a neighborood maker?

This needs to stop. Ame has been low key fishing for PR's many times now.
Stop it.

I think NK may be correct.

[Ame]

4 hours. Meat is back on the menu boys.

HURT: Spring

[Ame]

Town's inability to act in good faith with one another this game is seriously putting a damper on our EV.

Spring, I find it absurd that you had this in mind, but could not make the logical leap for what I was doing with Raya here:

Because, if her claim is true, she is a safe target to receive the item.

[Ame]

Have you changed your mind on springlullaby being town again?

Yes, I change my mind. Those last two posts by Spring are the second set of scummiest posts in the game.

No, I wasn't reaction testing. Not capturing momo. And this isn't the time for vanity wagons. SwItch to either Spring or Farkran with me. We lynch the other.

[Ame]

You've wanted Spring all day. I'm giving that to you now. You said you'd feel bad if you were wrong right? You know from experience that end of day play is where I'm in my element (think insomnia in boon, you in boon, and Ico in strawberry).

[Ame]

Town's inability to act in good faith with one another this game is seriously putting a damper on our EV.

Like seriously Hectic, you haven't been able to fully read everything and sort your thoughts, so just put faith in me here.

[Ame]

1179 and 1180 above. Spring blatantly role fishes, gets self-conscious about it, and attempts to paint it as if it were I that were doing so.

[Ame]

Here ya go: https://dictionary.apa.org/projection

[Ame]

A little under 3 hours, come on guys!!

[Ame]

Unofficial Vote Count

[Capture] springlullaby (5)- momo, Pine, Farkset, Ame, Hectic
[Capture] Farkset (2)- springlullaby, Not Known 15
[Capture] Raya (2) - Raya36, FotC
[Capture] Lady Chloe (1) - mastina
[Capture] NK15 (1) - Farkset

End Day (1)- Lady Chloe

Not voting (1)- Ginngie

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach a majority.

Deadline is in (expired on 2020-04-20 13:00:00)

[Ame]

Leader Count

Ame (6) - Pine, Pink Ball, Raya, Hectic, Lady, FotC
NK15 (2) - Ame, [Hectic]
FotC (2) - [Ame], [Lady]
Spring (1) - [FotC]
Hectic (1) - Farkset
Lady (1) - [[FotC]]
Raya (1) - [[[FotC]]]

Not Voting: NK15, mastina, Ginnie, momo, Spring

Key:
[] Second Choice
[[]] Third Choice
[[[]]] Fourth Choice


Lady is off quest, but with momo's double vote that should be majority.

[Ame]

Lady, players like Pink have a hard time reading more than a few words. Others want dialogue. I don't know what to do. I'm trying to post in snippets to appease the former.

I dont have a hard time reading "more than a few words", I dislike walls because there are things that could be said with less words, and because real time interactions are far better for getting reads and having fun, and I don't have time to do that because of said walls and because of real life.

So as I said, as long you guys are having fun, I'm ok with seating in the back seat for a while.

I'm sorry.

[Ame]

jump off a bridge: Ame

[Ame]

I'm still willing to swing to Raya if there is enough. A volunteer capture is better than no capture.

[Ame]

Just because you're Town doesn't make your judgment any better.

It wasn't about mine it was about Raya's. You presuming to know better than her is a violation of autonomy.

[Ame]

Why am I involved in both of those!

[Ame]

I won't let you down.

Spoiler:

[Ame]

My readslist is at 4 lines.

My conviction rises.

What did you think of my NK reasoning? Also who would you lynch if we could?

[Ame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqldwoD ... qldwoDXHKg

[Ame]

Telling people to volunteer to be captured = role fishing.

> No town PR will volunteer.

Telling people to volunteer to be captured under the pretense of POE is either idiocy at its best of scum. I hope a whole lot for you that you are scum Ame.

OH YEAH WELL YOU CAN, YOU CAN EAT MY FOOT

[Ame]

[Ame]

Both lynch and Gift are activated, we don't have to vote for them. We should wait until Pine gets the mod stuff sorted before any further replies I think.

[Ame]

Unfortunate Pine. What is gold exactly?

[Ame]

FotC I really enjoyed playing with you both. I hope to play together again in the future.

[Ame]

May someone tell me who the Leader was and where the votes were placed?

Did you expect something different to occur from the public decision?

[Ame]

I have to ask that we minimize discussion with Spring for today for the sake of game health.
I think it's clear her intentions are to make the game difficult/unenjoyable to read.
We also ought not lynch her since she was captured yesterday and cannot perform the night kill if scum.

[Ame]

Yes, based on NK's case and the way she has been playing. For example, currently fishing for who has the item and what it is. That being said, she is not someone I'm considering currently.