Mini 2134 Gin's Joint Pick4U - GAME OVER

[Pine]

Hello! I'm going to try REALLY HARD to stay current with this game, but at least four SPAMMY FUCKS in this game, I'll probably struggle until we cut down on the noise a bit. I do not apologize for this, you've brought it on yourself.

[Pine]

You aren't, and your presence is always a delight, pinkboi <3

[Pine]

Yeeeeeeeah...Spiked Kool-Aid makes me think of the Jonestown mass murder/suicide, and Deathsticks are from Star Wars - they get you high but literally shorten your life.

I want to say we shouldn't buy them - they sound like traps.

[Pine]

Unless you're a spammy fuck, in which case I'm sure it's perfectly safe.

[Pine]

I'm feeling it.

Ginger ale and Fireball has been my quarantine cocktail of choice.

[Pine]

Pengu, my dude. This is my wine rack after a month in quarantine:

[Pine]

OH NO

I HAVE BROUGHT SHAME ON MY FAMILY

[Pine]

^That's a fuckin pagetopper right there

[Pine]

Are you kidding me...I...missed a pagetop.

[Pine]

I mean...yeah, I think that's super suspect and as good a D1 vote as we're likely to get.

Mastina, seriously, you need to learn to keep it in your pants.

VOTE: mastina

[Pine]

Peyote is a spanish word derived from the Aztec origin meaning glistening.

Somehow...I am not surprised.

[Pine]

I submitted all fictional drugs. Lotus Flowers (Homer's

Odyssey

), the Red Pill (

The Matrix

), Felix Felicis (the

Harry Potter

series), and Skooma (the

Elder Scrolls

series).

I don't think it prudent to discuss which of these I was assigned or what they do at this time.

[Pine]

Mastina, seriously, you need to learn to keep it in your pants.

Why?

Because I'm a third party who has an easily-achieved win condition that doesn't hurt the town?

Why the fuck would I not claim that?

I've zero reason to ever not.

My wincon requires an action from the town that is pretty simple.

I'm pretty sure it can work just by everyone posting in-thread something to the effect of, "

I masturbate

".

Because it can't possibly be trusted. Sorry. It's entirely too likely that you're telling the exact truth about everything except "this does not end the game."

It's also entirely likely that you're scum claiming third party to avoid second-party scrutiny.

Or just fakeclaiming, as you OFTEN DO.

In any of these cases, we are incentivized to vote you, either to neutralize you or force you to stop memeing. Either one. Maybe this time you'll learn a lesson.

[Pine]

Because it can't possibly be trusted.

I never fakeclaim.

I'll bend the truth

, e.g. cult leader->masonizer, mafia disloyal gladiator->town loyal gladiator, serial killer->vig, but those sorts of bent truths are simply adjusting the role to fit a town alignment, not actual lies. The effect of the role remains the same.

That's called lying. In the context of a Mafia game, it's fakeclaiming.

I'm not an arsonist. I just start random fires in peoples' houses sometimes.

[Pine]

Wait a minute.

I call you out for lying sometimes. You provide examples of you lying sometimes. And I'm the dumb one?

[Pine]

I call you out for lying sometimes. You provide examples of you lying sometimes. And I'm the dumb one?

Not dumb--scum, since this was already addressed and answered.

Yeah, but your answer proved my fucking point, and I still got called dumb for it.

I'm a little actual-ragey about this.

[Pine]

Okay, A) I do not intend to masturbate. B) Spell it with a "u," you uncultured swine.

[Pine]

I fucking love you, Ginny.

Okay, I am feeling much better than I did earlier in the day.

Yay! A Maria!

Just going to ignore mastina now that a critical mass is declining to play her game. Even odds she's got a kill she'll direct my way, but eh, these things happen.

Bulbazak does indeed look like a solid vote at this stage.

VOTE: Bulba

Going to bed, hopefully a much brighter day tomorrow.

[Pine]

im not convinced on

bulb

or

ari

scum. :/

i want

bulb/pine/maria/ali

to reply before i think much further

I already explained my reasoning for switching to Bulbazak - the consensus is that Mastina isn't getting the boot today, but is also pretty harmless for now. So long as Town holds the line about not handing her the win, she's less important unless she has access to a kill. Bulbazak on the other hand, is actively pushing bad logic reads. It's still early game, so that's about all I really need right now.

[Pine]

Harrumph

How dare you prod me. I was kicking ass, taking names, and losing anyway at Rainbow Six Siege

[Pine]

I've been enjoying Siege because we have a group of seven friends who play it, so on any given evening we usually have a full or nearly-full squad of five. Teamwork is fun.

[Pine]

Hey that's cool. By the way, a lot of people have been calling you scum, do you want to talk about that?

For what?

[Pine]

Oh, I meant to answer bulb too.

Yes, I have a plan for the masturbation, but I kinda already shared it.

We pick a player who is a universal tr, and they choose the order for the rest of the players to masturbate with the scummiest players going last. Turbo lynch anyone who masturbates out of order. Do all of this tomorrow/when we agree we're willing to bet the game on mastina not being game ending. I don't think we're likely to get universal cooperation (which is necessary) and there's a not inconsiderable portion of me that thinks analyzing scum's nightkill choice is more useful without giving them a claim order.

I am not willing to bet the game on this, I hereby veto this plan.

Why why WHY are people ready to bet the game on their fucking HUNCHES? Mastina/Reck is a third party slot. I immediately don't give a flying fucking shit about their wincon, and absolutely everything out of their mouth should be regarded as one step short of a Guilty Child Treestump.

Thank you for playing our game, Reck, but Mastina shot you in the foot by admitting to being a third party.

Yeah.... The remaining 6 are unlikely to go for anything anyway. We probably could have learned a lot otherwise.

Maybe? But only if Mastina was telling the truth, which we have no evidence towards. Again, I'm sorry I'm not risking the game for a tiny advantage, especially as scum are the most likely to have already jumped on the wagon.

Take it from me - there's no downside to taking Mastina up on her offer as scum. None. Some Townie (like me) will hold the line, and render it a moot point.

[Pine]

Sup turkey. It would have been nice if you hadn't done that.

[Pine]

Here's the critical failure point: If we did this, it always ALWAYS goes to the last person, because scum NEVER allow themselves to be left out, which ALWAYS means we risk everything for nothing.

It's an absolute shit gamble. I agree that it's low-order probability that we lose to Reck here, but it's an even lower probability that we get anything for our trouble.

PE: YOLOsturbated.

[Pine]

Also for the record, I'm really sorry about this, Reck. It's always a pleasure to play with you. If Mastina hadn't claimed it and just started the masturbation trend without mentioning third parties, it would likely have been treated as a silly drug-themed feature of the game and you'd have gotten an easy win and MAYBE actually exposed a scumzor.

[Pine]

Here's the critical failure point: If we did this, it always ALWAYS goes to the last person, because scum NEVER allow themselves to be left out, which ALWAYS means we risk everything for nothing.

It's an absolute shit gamble. I agree that it's low-order probability that we lose to Reck here, but it's an even lower probability that we get anything for our trouble.

PE: YOLOsturbated.

If you are town and as you said are not going to risk the day on this, why does it matter that I Yolosturbated?

Because the pool of non-masturbators is down to five, and if Reck is a version of a serial killer it's easy to murder your way through that number.

You didn't think before you acted.

[Pine]

If the claim is true, we gain a conftown at the very least.

I didn't think of that, and it's the best logic I've heard so far to take the risk. I'm not sold on it yet, need to ruminate first.

[Pine]

Because the pool of non-masturbators is down to five, and if Reck is a version of a serial killer it's easy to murder your way through that number.

I really wish you hadn't brought that up, tbh. I've been dancing around why I want to see nightkills before commiting to this course of action, but that is one of the larger ones, yes.

Why not bring it up? Unless the scumteam is full asleep at the wheel (unlikely in this playerlist) they're probably discussing it openly in their chat.

[Pine]

In general, unless something is a very unlikely insight or role-based, "don't tell scum" is a +EV losing proposition. The information wasn't privileged, and the analysis is pretty surface-level.

[Pine]

C'mon, turkey. You're better than this. Activated ICs are better than Day 1 ICs for a reason.

You had a front row seat to Pine not wanting to humor 3p in exactly this fashion in Mainstream.

You are actively ignoring the point of my posting to support a conclusion you want, not a conclusion that follows from the evidence.

I've already claimed to be self resolving, something I wouldn't do if it weren't true because I actually like winning games.

Also, now that turkey is masturbating I prefer this to PP

VOTE: gobble

Apologies for multiposting, I'm in an RPG videochat elsewhere and getting brief respites while others take their turns.

It should be pointed out that the 3P in Mainsteam WAS LYING.

[Pine]

Bingle why do I feel like you're the only one making any damn sense.

Shit. You're scum, aren't you?

VOTE: turkey

[Pine]

Post a chill song for me to smoke too. Any player that posts a song by the end of 4/22/20 will earn $1.

The challenge lasts from 4/20/20 to 4/22/20 because 4/22 is 4/20 too.

VOTE:

Okay, I have a weird suggestion, but hear me out.

This song is a beautifully-written and performed lament, full of introspection and self-medication with alcohol, cigarettes, and religion. None of it works as the singer meanders through his own mind and ennui trying to find the words to the song he's writing. It's a little trippy, but may only work for some people.

[Pine]

A L T E R N A T E S E R I A L K I L L E R

[Pine]

Also, you designed designed a third party role very similar to this in Gay Mafia. Yes, I'm aware that that role left the game independently when it was successful, but that doesn't preclude you winning independently.

There is almost literally nothing you can say which would change my lack of trust in your slot.

[Pine]

pls posit to me a role i could have that involves getting everyone to jerk off other than what ive claimed

The Collectors was

stabbed

! They were...

Spoiler:

Neutral Wincon Jack of All Trades Neighbor

Welcome to Krazy's Post-Apocalypse upick!



You are Arthur Dent, a

neutral wincon jack of all trades

Mech: You may only use or handle one item or ability at night. You can only activate one wincon per day.

DAY-ABILITY: Wincon Activation. During the first 100 hours of each dayphase, you may activate a win condition for the day. You must BOLD the activation code in the main game thread (not in a spoiler). The word "ACTIVATE" must be caps and in bold before the number code.

ACTIVATE: 1142

-- Codename: JESTER -- If you are lynched this day, you win the game.

ACTIVATE: 2269

-- Codename: LYNCHER -- As soon as possible, the mod will assign you a lynch target among living players. This lynch target will be randomly determined and not restricted to alignment. If that player is lynched, you will exit the game as a winner at the end of the dayphase.

ACTIVATE: 33666

-- Codename: UNJESTER -- if you are successfully killed by a night action the following night, you will win the game.

PASSIVE ITEM: You have a solar-powered walkie talkie. So long as it is DAY, you can talk in a neighborhood to any other individuals with a solar-powered walkie talkie on frequency 4815. The following topic will open during the day: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=81913

Win:

If none of the above win conditions are met, you win with any other faction as a survivor.

Game thread here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=81907

Confirm:

Please confirm by responding with your alignment and role name

*Note, only the hydra has access to the neighborhood

*Note, the Collectors did not achieve their wincon

Shit I forgot about that one. Mostly because I never posted. Menalque was supposed to carry us through D1 and we got stabbed N1.

[Pine]

Also, I don't think Reck is making anything up - I think mastina made something up, and Reck is being forced to play a shitty hand. It's why I've expressed sympathy for him.

[Pine]

also this pine is
slightly more committed and caring about d1 compared to pine who serial lurked out multiple d1s and tried to lurk

however i don't think its ai and i think he plays depending on his mood.

i think in general i would like to flip something that would help me understand the game, but I haven't sat down and actually thought about this game yet.

Maybe I'll do it by page 50
/shrug

It depends on the pace of the game. This one has been reasonable.

[Pine]

cheated

what the fuck are you talking about?

Oh so you forgot all about angleshooting in that gmae?

cheated

what the fuck are you talking about?

Oh so you forgot all about angleshooting in that game?

a had a masonry of katsuki and greyICE
I expressed my feelings about you to GreyICE really early
he said
"Yeah thats because she's probably scum"
and then I lynched you day 1 for it.

I swear to Christ, if you two turn this into AVP D1 part 2, I will policy you, one after the other.

I usually enjoy playing with both you, but that was the single worst experience I've ever had playing Mafia.

cheated

what the fuck are you talking about?

Oh so you forgot all about angleshooting in that game?

a had a masonry of katsuki and greyICE
I expressed my feelings about you to GreyICE really early
he said
"Yeah thats because she's probably scum"
and then I lynched you day 1 for it.

Oh so you wanna do some revisionist history?

Should i ask Pine to recount what happened?

You don't want that. It will not go the way you want.

[Pine]

Further, if you continue to rehash that absolute clusterfuck, I will have no compunction about reporting the personal nature of your bickering and let the Listmods sort it out.

I am dead fucking serious.

Drop the AVP bitterness or I will choose the nuclear options with wild abandon.

[Pine]

Pine...what's your take on bandits?

I think bandits are fine upstanding fellows who have my attention. With a deadline looming, we're likely to need to put a pin in that, though.

[Pine]

Pine...what's your take on bandits?

I think bandits are fine upstanding fellows who have my attention. With a deadline looming, we're likely to need to put a pin in that, though.

Never mind, the deadline is for Ginny's song submission.

Carry on, good coldbird.

[Pine]

Ari's claim makes him a tempting scumkill target if he's town. I'm kinda just okay with that. I also don't mind the company on this sweet gobbles wagon.

Today I learned that I'm not enough for you.

This makes me sad

[Pine]

Oh!

Oh.



I thought you were implying that you wanted

better

company.

Well that warms my cockles. <3

[Pine]

Enter - Didn't like his interactions with Gamma. Didn't like his interactions with Taly. Didn't like his shade. Didn't like his Bulb push. Enter here just seems like he's not interested in anything that isn't his Bulb narrative and I'm getting the sense he wants to cut anything else off at the knees.

This, your masturbating immediately after joining the game while demonstrably knowing the theoretical town value in dictating a masturbation order to "test things" when I expect town you would have just asked the mod instead of acting in a way that explains away why you're suddenly not a viable investigation target, your refusal to engage meaningfully with the fact that half measures on masturbation were bad, your refusal to engage meaningfully with the point that utilizing dunn's role tomorrow is actually better, excessive ATE instead of solveyness, and a complete dismissal of the argument that with as much traction against the masturbation trigger as there was pushing for it D1 was a distraction and a waste of time.

1. I apologize for masturbating immediately and I do realize its antitown side effects. At the time, I thought it was better that I did that. However, upon reflection, I think I objectively misplayed that. However, I still stand by the fact that it is a better idea to use Reck's wincon as an investigation Day 1 rather than later. I do appreciate that you are at least beyond the "fear mongering" that Reck's ability could lose us the game. More on this below.

2. See comment above. I do think that I

shouldn't

have been classified as masturbating considering how different my masturbation activation from the others, but I do agree it was reckless and a misplay.

3. I am not sure I understand what you mean by half measures on masturbation? I think it is related to the above points, but I would need clarification for futher comment on my end.

4. I disagree with this. Day 1 we get a conftown or a scum. This helps going into night so that night actions are better optimized. Jailkeepers/Doctors know who to protect. Investigations know not to target that person. It also helps us make better informed purchases. While it is true that when you get a smalller pool a conftown IS stronger it comes at the cost of less efficient night actions or purchases. At what point do you suggest we should use Reckoner's wincon as an investigation? Is this something that you just want floating around as a potential gotcha for scum? I standby that has diminishing returns over using on Day 1. I don't know if you are familiar with the term snowball, but I think having a stronger Day 1 is good to snowball the town to a victory. It makes it easier for the town to win later.

5. I think I have been solving. I have been doing AtE, but that is a personal fault of mine. I hate it when people illogically scumread me. I absolutely hate being scumread Day 1 because it runs contrary to everything I try to do as town which is lay low, ask questions that tie people to certain opinions, and then use those opinions later in the game to analyze contradictions in play when viewed in light of those opinions. I do not like getting into it with people. I like pulling at the loose threads and seeing where that goes.

6. I disagree with this point for multiple reasons. As I said, multiple others have acknowledged the benefit using Reck's wincon ability today. Just because it is the one that is slightly more favored and

your

personal opinion does not mean it is the

right

opinion or the way we

should

go. I think that is a little egotistical on your part, which is not something I would have said about you ever.

---

I think that the people who are currently unmasturbated are probably more likely to be town than scum. However, there are some in there that I think have the potential to be scum. The fact that all of the currently unmasturbated people are people others have difficulty reading or have legendary scum games is a perfect opportunity to check them.

For the record, I think that scum have probably already gotten "in" on the ability to avoid being detected as scum by it. The most likely person that I think this applies to is Ari.

Ari looks like the type of scum player who has not played scum in a while and is uncomfortable in playing it so they are playing people and not the game. Look at Ari's iso. It does not look like Ari is scumhunting at this point in the game which is DIFFERENT to how he approached the Team Mafia Game where he very early on was scumhunting. I get you want to keep him around for his ability, but make use of it today and then let's lynch him.

I also think it is interesting that MariaR didn't have time to do anything recently other than sneak in get some free money with her music recommendation. But given how hard it was to lynch MariaR in both Furret v2 and TvA I am going to save my breath if that is scum and just ask that someone be intelligent and use their investigation on her. Her comments towards Alisae at least look like scumhunting though.

Looking at Pine's vote on me, it looks eerily similar to his play in Furret v2 where he did not really comment on things and did not scumhunt. That said I am also concerned about PenguinPower because he seems less happy go lucky and from my couple of games with PP!scum I think he is less happy go lucky as scum. Moreover, I would have fully expected PP to be on my wagon or any other larger wagon at this point in this game because he likes bandwagoning. Him sitting on Dunnstral for reasons I do not understand raise a lot of eyebrows to me.

Pink Ball ALSO looks different than Furret v2, but I can't tell if it is because I broke him that game or not. That said I do see some semblance of scumhunting in his iso so he isn't someone I want to pursue currently.

My town pool is {Bingle, Dunnstral, Reckoner, Lady Lambdadelta, Bulbazak, me}. I think Taly is probably town based off scumhunting, but I am not familiar enough with Taly to put him in the town core. If I can use the investigation to further narrow down my PoE I think we have a very real possibility of doing significant damage to the scumteam.

Picking a single game to meta is inherently bullshit. You and I have played many games together, so picking just one where I did something slightly similar is sophistry.

[Pine]

For mastina, he is voting it because he does not believe the claim and thinks it is some sort of serial killer. He refuses to masturbate. If he truly thought Mastina was a serial killer, masturbating would have no side effect on him because then when she DIDN'T LEAVE THE GAME he could just lynch her. His vote on Mastina is such an easy vote for scum to make.

He thinks reckslot wins when all non masturbating players are dead, ending the game. I don't think that that thought process is out of line from town Pine. I don't think you think that thought process is out of line from town Pine. If you were advocating it as a policy lynch based on his lurking or as a policy lynch based on his celibacy, that'd be another matter. But you're arguing his lynch as a scumread.

Pine hasn't done anything scum indicative for Pine, and you know that. At worst, his anti masturbation thing is NAI. At best, it's actually town indicative paranoia.

I don't think that, actually. I think it entirely probable that mastina/Reck are telling the truth that they can win independently.

I just refuse to take that risk when it costs me nothing to refuse and we almost certainly gain very little from acquiescing. Sorry.

[Pine]

meta is inherently bullshit

ftfy

It's not, but what Turkey is doing isn't meta, it's blatant cherry-picking.

[Pine]

your face is trash

[Pine]

Time for you to masturbate Pine

Why

What makes now better than never

[Pine]

Let me tell you a story

[Pine]

Just...ugh. Fine. Whatever. I'm tired of fighting. If we lose, we lose. If we get an IC out of it, more the better - but I would rather it be someone else, because that helps me solve.

I twist one off

[Pine]

Ali, Dunn, Maria, LLD

[Pine]

Yeah, Maria last. I can't ever read her.

[Pine]

The big difference is between principled debate and recklessness. Yours was the latter.

[Pine]

You want to shove some stuffing up your ass and be Thanksgiving dinner? PP was part of the first wave who didn't take it seriously and acquiesced, you were after the serious debate started and did it in your first post after your predecessor resisted, then ragequit.

That transparently looks like Enter was getting pressure from scumbuddies not to take the risk, quit, and then you said "okay" when instructed to do it.

[Pine]

It doesn't have any bearing on my decision, as nothing you've said has influenced me. You asked how it was different, and I gave you a coherent, straightforward response which you then pivoted into a different question.

[Pine]

That's like...top ten most cliched scum tactics, bird.

[Pine]

Well then

VOTE: Maria

[Pine]

A) We've been pressuring him
B) I don't recall ever seeing Turkey crack under pressure. It works better on some than others. Vote to lynch or don't. I'm treating Maria's defiance of the turn order as a scumclaim.

[Pine]

I would flashwagon the shit out of Turkey.

[Pine]

Ahhhh I'm here, shut it. I've been distracted with real-world stuff. What's going on.

Delaying is pretty dumb when we’re potentially in MYLO.

What's the math on this?

Reading.

[Pine]

This game was so hilariously fucked up.

I had a lot of fun!

[Pine]

This game was so fucked up

[Pine]

I really don't understand my kill, but okay.

You were a threat. Best reason to be NKed, in my book.