Mini 2134 Gin's Joint Pick4U - GAME OVER

[Bulbazak]

Vote me! Vote me!

[Bulbazak]

Ginngie told me I'd have to buy a thing to find out what it does. That's okay. I have a foolproof plan. And it involves scotch and tripping balls.

[Bulbazak]

Aw...

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Enter

Until I Exit.

P-edit: Yay!

[Bulbazak]

I thought we'd have $2? We start the game with $1 and then earn another dollar at the beginning of the day.
...
You guys better buy a lot of death sticks.

[Bulbazak]

Probably.

Also, I've already bought the Kool-Aid.

Cheers!

[Bulbazak]

UNVOTE: Enter

That was worth your life.

[Bulbazak]

Wouldn't you vote Pink Ball first?

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Pink Power Ranger

[Bulbazak]

She may have a point, but I'd rather vote the Ball over you.

[Bulbazak]

Probably. But the ball still isn't here.

[Bulbazak]

Hey guys! I'm tipsy!

[Bulbazak]

I'm game.

I masterbate.

[Bulbazak]

@Mod, will you just tell us what spiked Kool-Aid does if we just asked you?

You get tipsy.

[Bulbazak]

Mastina could be lieing about her role when she explicitly said “only town need to do this”

Why would she lie?

[Bulbazak]

@Pine: Or you can just masterbate and test the claim.

[Bulbazak]

But if more than town need to masterbate, how is she achieving her wincon by having them not masterbate?

[Bulbazak]

Even if the game does end, if mastina wins via mass masterbation, I'm calling that a win in my book.

[Bulbazak]

Don't sweat it.

[Bulbazak]

It works!

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

Fun Player Fact: Bulbazak was in my first game on MS under Blawb. Anyone from that game is legendary.

I have several alts, but Blawb isn't one of them. Sorry Ginngie.

I know. It's my alt.

[Bulbazak]

But if more than town need to masterbate, how is she achieving her wincon by having them not masterbate?

if you incentivize your wincon by saying “only town need to masterbate” then scum are going to do so as well to blend in

And? I'm still not seeing the problem here.

[Bulbazak]

Shh. You're not supposed to tell them that.

[Bulbazak]

I don't know. Why haven't you?

[Bulbazak]

@Maria: Well, I'm already glistening, but I will take that peyote.

[Bulbazak]

You post "I masterbate" in bold.

[Bulbazak]

Then you get a nice spot on the chronic masterbater block in the vc.

[Bulbazak]

Maria's dumb. I'm just enjoying the show.
UNVOTE: Pink Gum Ball
VOTE: Ari

[Bulbazak]

You ruined it pink.

[Bulbazak]

So Maria is dumb. Pine is dumb or scum. Lady is probably scum, but who knows. And Alisae is just scum.

UNVOTE: Ari
VOTE: Alisae

[Bulbazak]

Buy the Kool-Aid. We can be tipsy together.

[Bulbazak]

@Ginngie: How is pink the one who would die at deadline?!?

As of this post, 183. The vote count is correct.

[Bulbazak]

UNVOTE: Alisae
VOTE: Pine

[Bulbazak]

I was voting Pink in the first vc, but I moved my vote before that one.

[Bulbazak]

@mastina: I noticed you not being lynched previously, that's why I was trying to get you to calm down in the neighborhood.

[Bulbazak]

Did no one want you in their neighborhood, Dun?

[Bulbazak]

Unless we run someone else up, it's looking like that might be the case.

[Bulbazak]

I don't. I'm just hopeful.

[Bulbazak]

Yay!

[Bulbazak]

MariaR is a prude.

[Bulbazak]

If you do, I'll vote park you out of principle.

[Bulbazak]

I'm not the one that voted for the obvious third party claim and refused to play along.

[Bulbazak]

mastina- 4 (Alisae, Lady Lambdadelta, Pine, MariaR)

L - 3

There's scum in here Dunn. Make yourself useful and find it.

[Bulbazak]

Explain how there is scum in there. What's wrong with voting the third party claim?

It's too easy. Mastina's claim is easily provable, and it doesn't cost town anything to play along. Scum can blend in, and it makes them look like they're doing something without actually scumhunting. And my questions to Alisae has a point to them and points to the problem with the wagon: No one could give a good reason why scum Mastin would make that claim.

[Bulbazak]

And before Pink made the fact that Mastin wasn't getting lynched clear, I was trying to get her to calm down in our neighborhood so that I could see where the wagon was leading.

[Bulbazak]

If she does, and if it's a waste of time, what does that tell you about Maria's motivations?

[Bulbazak]

Join me on Pine.

[Bulbazak]

If she's getting ran up for stupid reasons, it's very easy to see why she would get frustrated, especially when there are players on that wagon that should know better. There was scum on that wagon. Mastina thinks 1. I think 2. If you don't want Pine, then sell me on one of the other 3, but that's where my vote is going today.

[Bulbazak]

chronic masturbaters
-mastina
-Bulbazak
-PenguinPower

For an easily confirmable claim with little downside and a huge upside, there sure has been a lot of resistance.

[Bulbazak]

I've seen her get that worked up over her claim before and not be scum. That's a mastina reaction.

P-edit: Why do you think you'll lose the game?

[Bulbazak]

The upside is that should she win, and there are names not on the list, you have guaranteed non-town.

[Bulbazak]

How is it a large downside if she's anything else? How could telling the mod you're masterbating, which outside of putting you on a list does nothing else, be bad? And, paranoia aside, how likely is it that mastina could have come up with a very specific claim, with confirmable in-game evidence by herself? All the objections have very little basis in reality, and if you test them against the question of "why would she put herself through that when there's a better way?" then it's pretty easy to see that mastina is likely telling the truth, and if she's not, she's still not scum, and regardless, there's nothing to lose by humoring her.

[Bulbazak]

@Enter: You still have yet to give a reason why masturbating would be bad.

p-edit: This neutral 3rd party fear has always been bull crap. Most players with a neutral 3rd party still have a town bent, which means they are more likely to help town than scum if given the choice. Lynching them wastes a lynch and ignores any help they can give. They are an easy wagon for scum to push and hide on. If you want to vig them, fine, but if the objective is easily obtainable and does not go against our wincon, there's no point wasting time trying to kill them.

[Bulbazak]

We have no proof it's false, and there is evidence in thread that her masturbation claim is true. And I still don't see how posting "I masturbate" in thread and being done with it would hurt town.

[Bulbazak]

I'm saying that 3rd party wagons are easy for scum to push or jump on. It makes them look like they're doing something when they're not actually scumhunting.

[Bulbazak]

What is happening with that vc?

[Bulbazak]

We have no proof it's false,

I am the town cop and I have a confirmed PM saying that mastina is scum.

You have no proof the above statement is false either. Vote mastina with this new found information.

I do. It's in the OC. But sure, be willingly obtuse.

[Bulbazak]

What is the difference between lynching mastina and vigging mastina that makes one of those acceptable?

Lynches are not 100% town controlled and are one of the best sources of information on later days. That's why policy lynching a 3p "just because" is bad, because it's easy for scum to blend in, creates too much noise in the moment, and might not be useful on later days. And that's ignoring that there are certain 3p roles you don't want to lynch at all in a self-proclaimed bastard game where everything is on the table. A vig is 100% town controlled and can be used to get rid of players or roles that can hurt the town in the long run or that can cause a distraction.

Given that vigs are readily available, that should be an easy choice for anyone that wants to get rid of mastina because of the 3p claim. Policy lynching mastina just because she claimed 3p is going to shorten the day and not give us as much information as literally any other lynch.

[Bulbazak]

Anyone else notice that only 11 people can vote?

[Bulbazak]

You asked the difference between lynching and vigging. I gave you the simplified answer. Scum are not going to shoot mastina. Only town will. And lynches provide more information than vigging. I really don't see how informative a mastina lynch would be if she's a 3p, which was why she was being waggoned. Outside of that, I'm not arguing semantics with you.

Same thing with the 3p claim and why I'm against lynching her. I've given my reasons. Why is wanting to test a verifiable claim of a neutral 3p scum motivated, especially when it could tell us who is town and who is scum?

[Bulbazak]

The best kind.

[Bulbazak]

Or you can vote him right now. We both know that vote was funny.

[Bulbazak]

And you're either scum or bad. I'm not 100% sold on mastina's read, but I figure she knows Pine better than I do, and I don't like his pivot onto me. But I've also been wary of you all day phase. So I don't like that "If Bulba flips town we vote Pine" thing. I'm off, because I realize I may be too close on this. I'm just looking for the bad faith logic that signifies for sure that you're scum. I haven't really seen it as of yet.

[Bulbazak]

When do you get out of the sheeping phase?

P-edit: I had Ari and Gamma as possible lurking scum in my neighborhood. It made sense with the earlier mastina wagon theory.

[Bulbazak]

Fair. I actually just got a lot out of that.

[Bulbazak]

So you feel good on LLD?

[Bulbazak]

I can't remember what her scum meta was supposed to be from Team Mafia 2018. I think I'm starting to get an early game PoE. Probably not anywhere near as accurate as it should be, but I feel good on some of the town.

[Bulbazak]

Most players with a neutral 3rd party still have a town bent, which means they are more likely to help town than scum if given the choice.

I also point you back to one of mastina's first post. You're right that she has no obligation to, but that doesn't equal the reality that she might actually be providing actual useful reads. If you want to ignore that, you're more than welcome to.

[Bulbazak]

Ari's been posting a little in the neighborhood. Mainly about people's drug choice.

[Bulbazak]

The principle to lynching

mastina

is that she's not town, and I genuinely see no reason why

mastina

claims this if she's not 3p - because

town and scum

have incentive and an excuse to lynch her now... and this can't be faithfully written off as a

"safe bus"

for scum to make because the 3p claim is invalidated upon her lynch.

Taly gets it.

[Bulbazak]

Explain how there is scum in there. What's wrong with voting the third party claim?

It's too easy. Mastina's claim is easily provable, and it doesn't cost town anything to play along. Scum can blend in, and it makes them look like they're doing something without actually scumhunting. And my questions to Alisae has a point to them and points to the problem with the wagon: No one could give a good reason why scum Mastin would make that claim.

[Bulbazak]

Ari's been posting a little in the neighborhood. Mainly about people's drug choice.

Indeed. Still not out of his scum range levels of posting but I wouldn't damn him as definitely scum yet when we've got much better immediate suspects.

He's in my PoE lurker pool. I have a couple of assumptions that point to him being prob scum, but they're not good enough to follow d1.

Enter is not worth getting into right now. If he's town, any fight you get into will create white noise. If he's scum, he'll argue just enough to confuse town and make any town who goes at him look like the bad guy. Enter's alignment will become obvious in time.

[Bulbazak]

Amount of money you have left.

What you purchased. Result/Info.

[Bulbazak]

Just that? Is there flavor text?

Nope.

[Bulbazak]

Alright big boy time, some of you guys are letting Bulbazek get away with pushing some truly mind boggling and anti-town agendas while knowing full well that he has knowledge he hasn't displayed in the main thread that means he's straight up lying and trying to get town to waste their resources.

Bulbazek asks the general neighborhood to give him money for the night phase

Mastina said she needed town to masterbate, but we had no clue how to make that happen. I said that if anyone in the neighborhood sent me money, I'd try dropping acid to see if that would help. I'd already spent money on the punch by that time. Until mastina suggested just posting in thread, I was going to try different combination of actions to see if I could get the masturbation effect to trigger.

Bulbazek immediately starts buttering up to mastina, and asking for her reads

And by immediately, do you mean 14 hours after the thread opened when everyone was essentially rapid posting? We were 5 pages deep by then and the mastina wagon was going strong.

trying to get her money before she gets lynched

If you think you're going to get lynched, you need to gift someone in your neighborhood your money, that way it doesn't go to waste. In fact, I never asked for her money and just told her that she needed to make sure she gifted it to someone if she looked like she was going to get lynched, which I figure is about L-1. That's also when mastina told us about the BP.

Oh, and action B here took place before action A. I'm not sure you mixing up the actions and obscuring the length of time here is intentional or not.

Bulbazek points out that the vote count won't result in a lynch on mastina (allegedly)

Mastina being the leading wagon but not being the lynch was the first thing I noticed when looking at the vcs. I wanted to see how things developed and how people would interact with the wagon. What I didn't need was mastina freaking out and muddying the waters.
And then Pink ruined everything...

Bulbazek says that the neighborhood should keep the fact that mastina has the bp a secret

Keeping the BP recipient secret is a pretty good move. Town doesn't need to know who has it, as they are likely anti-scum, and scum are better kept in the dark so they make sub-optimal choices.

In the main thread:

Bulbazek tells people to vig mastina instead of lynching her, and makes up reasons for why it's better for town to shoot her instead of lynching her, while knowing that she has a bp
Bulbazek says that only town would shoot at mastina

In general, I'd rather neutral or beneficial 3ps be vigged instead of lynched, because lynches are more informative, and that's also the whole point of vigs. Personally, I'd rather just leave them alone, but you can't really convince people to do that.
Outside of that, I really hadn't put much thought into it. I really didn't care how much a vig cost, because I had no intention on buying one. And if someone wanted to be stupid and shoot mastina, that's their own problem. Anyone with half a brain should have figured out that the 3p that needs to stay alive until their wincon was met probably bought the bp.

Bulbazek says that if anyone gets a vig shot, shoot Enter

I still stand by that. And I suspect you know the reason why, too.

Bulbazek posts a read list that is pretty wild - He can share it if he wants, I won't

I won't. I needed to work out how I was reading the game, and I needed a place to organize my thoughts. So I did that in the neighborhood, because this really wasn't something I wanted to fight over. I also explained my reasoning afterwards and said that these were early game reads and unlikely to be accurate.

Bulbazek:

Why did you continue to keep the bp vest a secret, while thinking there was scum in the neighborhood?

It didn't really occur to me until later. By the time I realized scum probably already knew, it was probably best to stay the course. Because while scum

probably

knew or would know by night, there was still no reason for town to know, especially when all that revealing the pick would do would be to stoke the fire.

Now, a question for you: How do you know what we were talking about in our neighborhood?

[Bulbazak]

@Mod, will you just tell us what spiked Kool-Aid does if we just asked you?

You get tipsy.

What the fuck is “tipsy”?

Idk. I drank the punch, and I got tipsy. That's all the information I was given.

[Bulbazak]

I'm going to wait on Dunn before I go more in depth on some stuff.

[Bulbazak]

But you don't think mafia will shoot at mastina, so it doesn't need to be kept a secret from the town.

At the time, mastina was being ran up. Outing her buying the bp would have just added fuel to the fire. Otherwise, it's frankly nobody else's business.

I am kinda concerned that you cherry picked the neighborhood a bit. I don't think it's malicious, but how you presented things or outed certain pieces of information was definitely biased.

[Bulbazak]

That said, since you have opened your big mouth, this is the reason why I said Enter should be vigged and should not live to see the endgame:

That said, I don't believe in masturbation, but it doesn't matter if I do or do not, because I am scum.

[Bulbazak]

I had followed that up by saying that it was probably a false trail for a lynch, but I didn't want you being in endgame when you claimed scum in a matter that was more advantageous to scum than town, regardless of whether you were joking or not.

If I had wanted that out in the main thread, I would have originally posted there. And in the neighborhood I actually said I'd only say something if I got to L-1. By posting that I wanted you vigged and not giving the reasoning, Dunn essentially forced my hand to give the reasoning here too, even if it may not have been beneficial to do so.

P-edit: Not going to policy lynch you. If I want to lynch you, it'll be based on a more substantial read. But that's the sort of thing I don't feel comfortable making to contested endgame scenario. Especially since we're now following this up hot on the heels of you muddying the thread with vitriol.

[Bulbazak]

I'm voting Bulbazek over mastina because I don't trust him but I don't think mastina is group scum.

[Bulbazak]

Pine and bulbs reactions to the Mastina claim are explicitly in line with how they think as town, one.

Does Pine normally call 3p claims scum?

[Bulbazak]

Bingle, I want to know when you're fully caught up.

[Bulbazak]

That's not why Pine was voting mastina. He called her scum.

[Bulbazak]

So you're thinking Gamma/Bingle is scum now?

[Bulbazak]

If my scum reads were all predicated on one player flipping scum because they were defending him, I'd reevaluate my scum reads.

[Bulbazak]

Okay. If I flip town, what does that tell you about Bingle and Taly? Same for if I flip scum.

P-edit: How am I misrepping you or communicating in bad faith?

[Bulbazak]

I also would like to note the fact that while Gamma was here, they cast suspicion on the entire Bulbazeks wagon and exclusively the bulbazek wagon without reading much more than the most recent three pages.

So you weren't calling Gamma scum here?

[Bulbazak]

So you just throw shade at the slot for kick and giggles then.

[Bulbazak]

So what's the point? And don't say "So people can look back at my thoughts after I die.", because that's crap. You didn't give an opinion. You just threw shade and pretended it was significant.

VOTE: Enter

I've been waiting on Bingle to see if he had some meta on you. I finally just did a quick meta-dive myself to see if you were incredibly toxic as town or used open-ended neutral language. I didn't see any, and I also noticed a complete different way in how you approached your town games compared with how you've been approaching this one. And I'd much rather believe that you're just scum here trying to muddy the thread than a town player who decided to suddenly be an a-hole.

[Bulbazak]

I'm voting Bulbazek over mastina because I don't trust him but I don't think mastina is group scum.

I thought this was made very clear. I don't think you should be in the game another day. I think lynching mastina is better than lynching town but worse than lynching scum.

Let's go back to this. You don't think I noticed how neutral your language in regards to me is? "I don't trust him" instead of "He is scum". And then just "I don't think you should be in the game another day." which does not say anything about an alignment read. So technically you can say you told the truth that I was not scum, even though you just imply it. I'd expect stronger language, especially given what follows, but you're incredibly weak and take a lot of prodding just to commit to a scum read.

[Bulbazak]

And you're only now trying to qualify your vote on me as being a scum read, even though you've repeatedly framed it as a policy lynch because you did not like or agree with my logic (another reason why saying "lynching mastina is better than lynching town but worse than lynching scum" just came off as extremely weird). You've even gone out of your way to ignore other players you've called scummy just to push this agenda.

[Bulbazak]

I also would like to note the fact that while Gamma was here, they cast suspicion on the entire Bulbazeks wagon and exclusively the bulbazek wagon without reading much more than the most recent three pages.

To say that there's no agenda behind this is bull crap.

@LLD: I've been incredibly patient with Enter and have been trying to explain those pings away. I'm done now. So if you've got something to say, then find a way to get it through whatever post restriction you have.

[Bulbazak]

Ari also did it wrong.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

@LLD: You were right. I know what I'm dealing with now.

VOTE: Pine

[Bulbazak]

@Alisae: Apparently mastina was trying to be cheeky on the survey.

[Bulbazak]

@Bingle: I thought for sure you might come back with a plan to take advantage of masturbation. This feels like an opportunity to game solve that is just being left to rot.

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Ari

[Bulbazak]

Yeah.... The remaining 6 are unlikely to go for anything anyway. We probably could have learned a lot otherwise.

[Bulbazak]

Also a little weirded out that no one has mentioned my softclaim.

I didn't notice, and I don't feel like trying to look it up. You do you.

Hey, so I think Bulb is telling me that scum explicitly don't have daychat and I cannot find this information anywhere. Am I high? Have I been smoking the masturbation again?

If this is confirmed somewhere please link. If not, Bulb, can you explain?

Also, I still don't really want to discuss shit in the PT, because the main thread is slow AF, even if you're right. I will of course heed your advice to leave the thing I'm not worried about right now alone in the interest of poking the thing I am focusing on, though.

I said no such thing! All I said was that I agreed that it made sense that they had day talk, but given that the op didn't say one way or the other, I didn't want to assume that was the case.

[Bulbazak]

Bulb is excluded because he's talked about the enter/gobbles scumread, but I would be interested in hearing his thoughts on other peoples.

I'm not sold on Pine-town, but I'm willing to give him another day, since he apparently gets better on later days. But I will lynch that slot if it gets to L-1 or looks like the only viable option. I think I'd rather lynch Ari. Have a can't explain gut that says probably scum. And on the plus side, I get money back. I guess the same could go with Pengu, but not super excited there and would only compromise if need to.

If Mastina hadn't claimed it and just started the masturbation trend without mentioning third parties, it would likely have been treated as a silly drug-themed feature of the game and you'd have gotten an easy win and MAYBE actually exposed a scumzor.

This is a big reason why I think her claim is accurate. If it was anything other than that, she had no reason to claim in the thread and could have tricked everyone into performing her wincon. That she didn't, and knowing mastina at least a little as a player, gives me reason to trust the claim. It's also why I backed her scum read of you. You both know each other fairly well, enough that you should know this as well. That you didn't, and that she called you out for it and called you scum made me comfortable with sheeping her.

mastina could have lied about the town part of the claim, pointing out that she would leave only if all town masturbated, in order to get us to discuss the posibility to get a conftown/confscum situation, but in reality the wincon is making every single player of the list masturbate and that's a difficult wincon to achieve. Something like "you either make everyone masturbate at the same time or you become a survivor". Suits well with buying a BP, right?

Nah, fam. She would have done what Pine said. That hypothetical role does not match mastina's actions.

And for the love of Batman, EVERYONE GET THE FRAK OFF OF GOBBLE!

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

That's a lot of meaningless speculation.

Get off Gobble, Pink.

[Bulbazak]

Oh, you're not town. But if I'm right, you're a horrible lynch.

[Bulbazak]

Oh my fucking god I have explained this like at least three times: I don't think you leave the game, I think you win the game by making everyone masturbate, not only town, and if someone dies you no longer can achieve your wincon and become a survivor, so I'd rather have you as a survivor than give you the win because oh that's a win win scenario 'cause dealing with a survivor is easier than someone who I think ends the game. Even if I'm wrong I have to act like I'm right 'cause the cnance of you winning alone exists and we will get more information tomorrow.

You'd have a point...if mastina hadn't essentially said "I have time.". Where the paranoia and theories stop making sense to me is when they don't match the play we've seen in the thread. And saying "I have to assume X" is super weird when 1.) it doesn't match in-thread evidence and 2.) you've already participated in the masturbation, making these points moot.

[Bulbazak]

if i knew for sure bulba was town then pine is def scum tho

On the first, give me a day. On the second, why?

@LLD: Is there a way we can get rid of your post restriction? It's getting really annoying.

[Bulbazak]

no way to get rid of the restriction?

[Bulbazak]

Bingle, join me on Ari. Leave Gobble alone for today.

[Bulbazak]

@Alisae:

if i knew for sure bulba was town then pine is def scum tho

On the second, why?

[Bulbazak]

I wonder what Deathsticks do

Buy them tonight and find out.

[Bulbazak]

How do you feel about Pink?

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

Took me awhile to find the right one.

[Bulbazak]

LLD, Alisae, Dunn, Maria. I want to leave Maria for last. LLD should probably be before that. I really don't care who between Dunn and Ali goes first.

[Bulbazak]

If Maria tries to jump order, I'm voting her immediately.

[Bulbazak]

We should wait on the next vc before Dunn goes. Might as well be systematic and not add in confusion to the mix.

[Bulbazak]

Dunn's turn.

[Bulbazak]

You should have waited until after the vc.

[Bulbazak]

I don't think it matters, but still.

[Bulbazak]

As long as LLD or Maria don't masturbate before Ginngie posts the next vc.

I'm going to bed. You have the comm.

[Bulbazak]

Maria goes last.

[Bulbazak]

Hint: if you think scum me would allow this you’re wrong.

You're acting like you have the power to stop this. The events of the past day show that clearly isn't the case.

[Bulbazak]

LLD, Alisae, Dunn, Maria. I want to leave Maria for last. LLD should probably be before that. I really don't care who between Dunn and Ali goes first.

If Maria tries to jump order, I'm voting her immediately.

I also don't think you or Gobble missed this.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah, Maria last. I can't ever read her.

Or this. Last few pages really weren't that difficult to read.

[Bulbazak]

Sup Titus.

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Maria

[Bulbazak]

Your only hope now is that Reck was lying so you don't get lynched for panicking and outing yourself.

[Bulbazak]

Last 2: {LLD, Maria}
Reck leaving will confirm one as town and possibly out one as scum.

As town: There is very little reason to jump the gun on masturbating, especially since it comes with the knowledge that you will be confirmed town by waiting. Yeah, you could argue that you wanted to out LLD as scum, but that's a huge risk with little payoff. Waiting doesn't let LLD get away, it just creates the same sort of game state we had prior to masturbating, just with you now confirmed town. And as town, that's a huge plus, as multiple players have admitted to having a hard time reading you, which was the big reason for having you go last. So being confirmed means that no one is going to struggle with reading you, more people are more likely to listen to what you say/what your reads are, and scum now have to make the decision of whether to get rid of you for being confirmed or aiming for another player who would be more of a problem to them in the long run. There's literally no reason to jump the gun here. You would know you were town and safe, and confirmation is a pretty huge boon. Not only that, but if you were really anti-masturbating, as you were for most of the day phase, not giving in means diddly squat, because the mechanic is more likely to clear you anyway, meaning you don't have to sweat.
tl;dr: No risk to sitting put as town, and not a lot of reward either.

As scum: If Reck's role works like he claims, you know LLD is town and that her masturbating will expose you. Reck will leave, she'll be confirmed, and you'll be the only one left off the list. Either way she's confirmed. If you sit still, you're lynched. If you jump the gun, you might have a chance to talk your way out of being lynched. LLD is still confirmed, you're probably still dead, but you have a sliver of hope. Reck's ability to give confirmed town and maybe some scum is why you fought against the role all game. It's why you were against masturbating until recently. And now you're the only one of your team left on the other side of the fence. Discrediting the 3rd party is gone. All that's left now is for you to start discrediting the method of your being caught and all those who will vote you.

In short, there's more scum motivation in jumping the gun and masturbating now than there is town motivation (of which there is very little reason to do so).

[Bulbazak]

tl;dr: No risk to sitting put as town, and not a lot of reward either.

This should say: No risk to sitting put as town, and not a lot of reward for masturbating early either.

[Bulbazak]

I don't think anyone was counting on Pine randomly having a change of heart. That threw everything in the air and made Reck leaving today instead of tomorrow more likely. In that case, you probably wouldn't have gone last, as Bingle was hard pushing for Pine to be one of the last to claim.

Also, weren't you just saying that LLD was a scum read?

[Bulbazak]

I also think LLD being conf. town makes her more likely to get killed than you being conf. town would. You just put a huge target on her.

[Bulbazak]

If you're scum here and you see someone saying 'Hey guys all town need to do this' scum don't take that chance and they fully support it if it becomes a thing, not wait until the last 2 people. That's just idiotic and there's no way scum me would do that, or any scum for that matter.

Except such discussion ground to a halt in the early to midgame. If, as scum, you feel that town you would be anti-3rd party, and that stance also aligns with muddying the waters and keeping a certain mechanic at bay, then I can see you easily making that decision and staying with it until the point where you might need to switch away. I never said it was bad scum play. I just think that forces beyond your control conspired to put you in an unwinnable situation.

What question that has not come up and would be a logical one is 'but Maria weren't you scumreading LLD why would you wanna go before her with that logic?' Good question! The answer is LLD has been afk for a ton of the game and it wouldn't surprise me if she was demotivated due to the posting restrictions.

So what's super scummy about me going before her hm? I've yet to hear a good answer.

Weren't you the one who gave her the posting restriction, though? Your argument here boils down to her being potentially demotivated for something you gave her, and you thought she was super scummy for reasons (which were again? I'm not sure I followed that.), so you skipped because??? Like it really looks like you're arguing that LLD was unlikely to get the masturbation train moving, you thought she was scummy anyway, so you just jumped the line. And again, I'm not really seeing the town motivation there, because town you shouldn't have felt rushed in any way, especially since you had been anti-masturbation for the entire day phase.

It's not like this was a shocking new twist we heard yesterday. We knew this when Mastina claimed at day start. So what do scum do here? They either

A) Masturbate at some point and don't get caught. (This isn't even taking into consideration other 3ps that could be out there)

B) Lynch it to get rid of the issue

C) Do both.

No one has said it's B which I tried to do, so that can't be it. Because that would put into question a lot of other people. Didn't do A or C either. So I don't see how you can be calling me scum here. It's machinability and logically stupid unless you think my scum game is that bad that I wouldn't notice such a glaring factor.

Um...

VOTE: Mastina

You did try to vote Mastina. As soon as she claimed, in fact. You pushed against it super hard, and you pushed against those who were for it super hard, up until Bingle joined and put a new face and spin on weaponizing the mechanic.

Yes someone made it so I was able to give away my posting restriction. But, why would I give it away as scum?

I think Mastina talked about how you had a posting restriction as scum in the last Ginngie game, but I don't know enough about that. Someone who does can talk about it. My big question is: why did you give your post restriction to LLD?

So, that should prove why I'm not scum I've given you every reason and logic/proof to back it up. You can unvote me

Any time someone says "I have now successfully refuted you and defeated your every argument. You have no reason to think I'm scum and can unvote me." I just want to vote them harder. This feels inherently scum to me.

C) It's not like the mass of people said no, otherwise I would've switched it. Also along me to bring up the very simple fact. Scum don't put themselves here in the first place. I was not forced into this spot, I had all the time in the world. So why the hell does scum me do this hm? You're skipping over key points.

I've explained why scum you would take the stance you did. And no, I don't think scum you would be stupid to put yourself in an unadvantageous situation. Under different circumstances, I think you would have changed stances when it best made sense. Unfortunately, several events transpired to make that practically impossible. First, Bingle replaced in and immediately started discussing how to break the game with Reck's role, which would involve ordered masturbation. Attention would now be on you if you changed your mind and masturbated now. That was made apparent when Gobble replaced in, masturbated, and then immediately was being pressured and wagoned. If things would have continued as they were, however, and there was some pushback on Bingle's plan, you could ride out the rest of the day and perhaps make it through the order on d2 without being outed (I believe Bingle wanted Pine to be one of the last to go, so you would probably have been somewhere in the middle.). But then Pine finally changed his stance and decided to actually try testing Reck's claim. And with no more resistance from Dunn or Ali, an order was set, and you were now set to go last.

So no, I don't think it was bad scum play. I just think that stuff happened outside of your control and you got screwed. It happens to the best of us (Jingle can tell you about how I got screwed over in Firefly.).

[Bulbazak]

From my point of view, I got a bit of consent to do it so I did it

Btw, this is not a town mindset. Town doesn't need consent. All this does is pass the buck and give justification for your scummy actions, which is something scum need far more than town.

And I'm not going to deal with a lot of Maria's wifom, because it really is talking in circles and I don't want to waste my time on stupid stuff. I want to reiterate that I'm not taking the position that Maria is bad scum, but rather that she's just unlucky scum who was forced to make suboptimal choices. I don't like the "I'm a really good scum player, why would I allow myself to be in this position?" argument, because I've used that before as scum. Generally it's somewhat true. Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't allow myself to be in such a position, but generally if I have to make that argument, something went wrong, I'm close to being caught (for what I feel are the wrong reasons), and I'm trying to argue my way out to make it to a later day phase where I have a better shot.

On a more personal note: I've probably made that argument as town too, but it's probably more common as scum. So I don't count that as a clear. The only time it is a clear is if it's a decision that doesn't make sense coming from a scum alignment, even if accidentally or unluckily.

[Bulbazak]

For the record, I am very disappointed in the choice of order because of the obvious not S/S relationship between Maria and LLD. I'm also disappointed we did this today because it just makes the nightkill obvious and the BP was already gone when we got around to doing this.

How night actions played out were likely to be the same no matter when we did this. We can still get some good information, so I'm not too worried. There's something that's occurred to me about actions, but I won't know for sure until the next day phase. I agree with you that I didn't think both LLD and Maria were scum. I just know they were the two biggest question marks, and I felt that LLD was more likely to be town and that Maria was going to be hard to read. Dunn and Ali were pretty obv. town from my perspective, so I really didn't care. I know you would have liked Pine to go later (as would I), but once the party got started, we had to see things through. Unfortunately it was just a case of you having to be there to set order. Everyone there agreed with the order set, so that's what we went with. All in all, I feel satisfied with what we got.

Do I need to get into the part where I was post restricted and could've kept going but chose to ya know...speak?

Real talk, I actually like this angle.

It's not 100% clearing, but if Maria flips scum I do want to look at where pressure was when her PR ended because it was likely she needed to help a scum buddy out somehow.

Talk me through this some more.

[Bulbazak]

I'm pretty sure that would have been obvious.

[Bulbazak]

It’s ok I’m gonna buy the vig to kill her tonight

Or you can just vote her.

[Bulbazak]

She's also in your neighborhood, so you would be getting money back.

[Bulbazak]

@LLD I'll give you my money to masturbate today

Hello this is the fbi, I mean I’m nobody special just carry on

[Bulbazak]

I would recommend giving your money to somebody, though. I'm always more than happy to take it off your hands, but you can also give it Dunn. I imagine he'll come up with a use for it.

[Bulbazak]

Congrats to the scum. I'm honestly surprised that Titus got away for as long as she did because nobody thought to ask why certain kills happened. My kill might as well have said TITUS in big blinking letters when no one in the town copped to vigging me. Everyone in my neighborhood knew how lost I was, and there was no way anyone thought I was a threat after I lead the Maria mislynch. It was a fun game to watch, but I was reminded why I retired. I think I'm peacing out for good this time. Take care everyone.

[Bulbazak]

I thought it was Titus?! Death message said I was made into a chew toy. Now I'm even more confused.

[Bulbazak]

When did Pine recruit you?

[Bulbazak]

I really don't understand my kill, but okay.

[Bulbazak]

N1 deaths are always an honor in my book

I get that. I just thought that I had discredited myself so much and put a major target on my back that I was either going to be vigged or lynched the next day. And I was incredibly vocal that I had no clue what I was looking at.

[Bulbazak]

And then I publicly gave all my money to Ari.

[Bulbazak]

Sending you a refund plus investing a dollar because I promised.

Best accidental mafia foil ever!

[Bulbazak]

Give me access to a neighborhood, and I will chat it up, even if no one else is talking.