Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[farside]

VOTE: farside

^That's a vote for hottest babe on the site BTW

VOTE: persivul
For trying to buddy me and rub my ego.

good to see you handsome.

[farside]

It's not your ego I want to rub...

[farside]

Ummmmm, OK.. Weird random votes all around.
I think PranaDevil is scum.
VOTE: LucaBlight

Erm... your theory and your vote don't add up.

This ^

VOTE: george

[farside]

This ^

VOTE: george

Why switch from Persivul?

Do you like his reaction to the wagon?

He didn't look like he cared. Any reason you switched to a bw vote after a joke vote?

[farside]

I like georges response. He was calm and i liked that he was curious about my vote change.

VOTE: unabomba

[farside]

Funny enough i get town and scum reads with a few pages.
I'm not married to the reads but it help sort people out and keep notes on those im not town reading.
I really dont see why tanners views should be pucked apart especially when he asmiited it wasnt a strong read.
People have strong reads early on all the time. Even on page 2.

[farside]

Funny enough i get town and scum reads with a few pages.
I'm not married to the reads but it help sort people out and keep notes on those im not town reading.
I really dont see why tanners views should be pucked apart especially when he asmiited it wasnt a strong read.
People have strong reads early on all the time. Even on page 2.

I have no problem with early reads. I have a problem with poor analysis.

You asked him for his read.

Everyone is town or scum regardless of anything else.

Exactly. So I don't see the point in waiting for

"let's get everyone posting and solidly out of RVS stage"

before I say what I think.

I think George is being relaxed in his posting and interested in solving - questioning vote changes.

I find that to be Town indicative. Is it, as a whole, weak? Yes. Is it strong enough to get it out in the open and get the ball rolling? Also yes.

Do you scumread me for putting Persi on L-2? What about me having a "townread" early on?

Why do you think he's relaxed? Why do you think he's interested?

And there is only 2 pages, what were you expecting?

I think you're making conversation for the sake of making conversation and trying to look like you're taking notice of things that aren't really there.

That's a scum charge, but you don't vote it.

VOTE: Drew

I like your vote, but your reasoning sounds really odd.

VOTE: drew

[farside]

The L-2 is more a scum leaning thing in my mind than a faulty town read.

What's wrong with putting someone to L-2?

Hammering would be an obvious scum claim.

That's why scum would put someone at L-2, to avoid the sus of hammering town.

this ^ guy is also added to my scum reads.

[farside]

Funny enough i get town and scum reads with a few pages.
I'm not married to the reads but it help sort people out and keep notes on those im not town reading.
I really dont see why tanners views should be pucked apart especially when he asmiited it wasnt a strong read.
People have strong reads early on all the time. Even on page 2.

I have no problem with early reads. I have a problem with poor analysis.

Again, page 2 what did you expect with his analysis.
Your being picky about something that people usually interpret there on way.

I like your vote, but your reasoning sounds really odd.

Huh. I learned it from you the one time we hydra'd. A weak push with no vote is scummy...

I remember that.....i dont know how to explain it but they way you posted it read weird.

The L-2 is more a scum leaning thing in my mind than a faulty town read.

What's wrong with putting someone to L-2?

Hammering would be an obvious scum claim.

That's why scum would put someone at L-2, to avoid the sus of hammering town.

this ^ guy is also added to my scum reads.

Which one, salad or george? George because that's bolded?

Salad. He's adding fuel to the fire without voting.
In other words he reads as agreeing to just agree without adding anything new.

@drew: how long has it been since you played mafia?

[farside]

@drew: how long has it been since you played mafia?

Oh, forgot to respond to this.

Several years on this site. I play on another but it's more a bastard role site.

Just an fyi
Millers claim in the first post by rule of thumb and typically it wifom because scum have claimed it in the past.

VOTE: salad

[farside]

I notice you haven't responded to what I said.

Err, what am I supposed to respond to exactly? To you telling me I'm making conversation for the sake of making conversation? To calling me jumpy? To calling my analysis poor? I mean, I can tell you "I'm not.", "I'm not.", "It's not.", but I don't much see the point?

@farside, why the change of vote?

Poke at me later with this question. I have a reason.

[farside]

I've seen multiple miller claims before, but god help me I don't remember when, what game or how many claimed miller.
I feel good about mavsfan's claim right now, but I really want to check if miller is something a normal has ever had multiple of before I do a knee jerk reaction to the info.

[farside]

Okay so I did some research, not a boat load, but I found one very helpful in my search for normal where 2 people claimed miller.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... it=millers

Now sadly both were town that game, which created a shit show to say the least, but I do not see the same issue here as in that game and thanks to one player in the game there doesn't look to be anything ever shown as 2 millers in a normal.
Now as a mod from days of old, I will say there is nothing unnormal about 2 millers in a normal game.
Is it WIFOM? Yup.
I'd lynch drew of manv if it was just the 2 of them, right now I'm on wait mode.

[farside]

OK, I do not see a world where we have two millers.
I did get some nasty flashbacks from a game where I was a Town-Universal Backup though, and I fought the "claimed Miller"-lynch until the end..
I believe that same game had a Doc and other useful stuff as well, and I got slapped with a Miller-tag starting from N2.

Anyhoo, I guess we are ready for the lynch now?
Don't think much of anything useful will come from the scumteam anymore, now that one of them is already caught red-handed?

And Unabomb continues being a scum read.
Fun
Salad is on my scum list too. If I get this game solved by day 1, I'm going to be really smug in future games.

[farside]

I mean just the fact that 2 town millers in a game can lead to 2 back to back town mislynches. That's just way too powerful for scum.

[farside]

@George Bailey: so you’d rather let scum!Drew-Sta off the hook and lynch someone who might be town rather than someone extremely likely to be scum? I think you should’ve just bus’ed him rather than try this damage control plan.

George Bailey/Drew-Sta and anyone have a guess on the third?

Also who said anything about a vig? We might not even have a vig in the game. One of you guys hasta be scum bulletproof for you to believe there’s a vig.

@PranaDevil: I had never considered a double scum miller fake claim. Damn!!!! Next time I’m scum I’m stealing that one. That’s brilliant! Alas, not clever enough to have thought of that for this to be the case here though

I don't see it.
Just relax mavs-son. Wax on and wax off. Time is on our side for the next 6 days.

[farside]

I agree with Farside that UnaBomber's posts are beginning to smell. Their not being open to the possibility of two millers appears to me to be them accepting an easy way to lynch me to get to night.

Did I vote you? Nope, and you can bet yo sweet PM-flip that I didn't for a reason.
I'm all about discussion happening D1.
Something to chew on D2, and that's what we should be getting.

I was just interested in seeing who's willing to vote for you straight out the gate if they felt like it was an "OK" thing to do.

Haven't seen too many votes, and that might mean something in the long run.

OK, I do not see a world where we have two millers.
I did get some nasty flashbacks from a game where I was a Town-Universal Backup though, and I fought the "claimed Miller"-lynch until the end..
I believe that same game had a Doc and other useful stuff as well, and I got slapped with a Miller-tag starting from N2.

Anyhoo, I guess we are ready for the lynch now?
Don't think much of anything useful will come from the scumteam anymore, now that one of them is already caught red-handed?

These 2 thoughts do not line up.

[farside]

As of now, my read for scumteam is una, george and drew. I'm sus of drew for obv reasons. I'm sus of george because of his spectacularly shitty defense for drew. Una is sus for defending george by pushing tanner. I think either Una or Drew were the bus target because of the quotes in 166.
Does anyone have the vote count on drew?

This needs to die. ^

I saw another person accuse Una of "double speaking", and like... are you people intentionally playing dumb?

No the kid is weird. He ask about voting, then says there is no hurry. The only glimmer is that he was interested in seeing very little votes on Drew.

You can probably say that about 4 other people in this game. My timezone is GMT +5.30 so I wasn't there for most of the RVS. Drew's claim was the first real point of interest in the game, it had already been explored and he was questioned by other so there was no point beating a dead horse.

Who are you currently scum reading?

[farside]

I still think that if there's a vig, he should definitely be the target tonight.

First, he's not going to be there tonight. A 2-miller setup is very unlikely, making him very likely to be scum.

Second, we don't even know that we have a vig.

Third, a vig should never shoot someone who's easily lynchable anyway.

I disagree with 3 completely. If players aren't sure and a player claims miller a vig shot on that player is the best thing for the town.

Drew-Sta (3)Persivul;mavsfan41;Knightmare491;

Drew is highly likely to be scum. He's highly likely to be the lynch. That means that everything coming from scum at this point is WIFOM. In my experience, that hurts town more than helps. We need more votes here.

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

On a completely unrelated note, Unabomb in no longer on the top of my scum list.
Salad, Persivul and Knight.

Still waiting for a few people to post more before finalizing my list.

[farside]

@farside

...am ...am I seriously the only person here that knows what a reaction test is? After it has been laid out as such?7

It was a poor attempt at one if it was a reaction test.

No the kid is weird.

I do not get offended easily, but it's still kind of funny when someone calls me a "kid".

Sorry I got the term from my co-worker. He tends to be older then everyone and he calls me kid. I just get the impression from your post that you are much younger then I am.

[farside]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

[farside]

Saladman27 is being replaced.

Hmmmm

@manv: the discussion of the vig is if drew or you were not lynched day 1.
Frankly it will be that lynch more then likely. Drew has conceded his own lynch.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

Can't argue with something that ambiguous. You do you.

[farside]

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

[farside]

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

This was really all you needed to say. The rest of your argument is WIFOMy enough to be entirely pointless.

I could call it playing over 13 years on MS instead if you want.
But I like my goofy hats more.

@farside, why are you viewing Drew as town? I assume as much as you viewed persivul as scum seemingly due to his vote on Drew.

(Also, I've spotted something rather interesting that I wish to bring up, but only after farside's response)

*puts on crazy/wifom hat*

I don't see scum claiming that early with little pressure. To be fair I was scum reading Drew from the start too. His post to Tanner about George was a bit much. His complaint about the votes was hypocritical and bias to say the least. But with manvs claim he believed in it and he even talked about it here with in regards to wifom: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747814.
He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

Interesting theory, and something I'd never considered, but it's definitely worthy of thinking about. I'm still not quite sure I buy a double miller set up though. Have you any thoughts on if we have two millers, or if one of the two is lying?

As for the interesting thing I spotted...

You can lynch me today if you need. I’m happy to be a martyr if you can’t settle on another townie.

So you're that sure we couldn't lynch scum?

^
Scumslip.

The only people who know, factually, whether Drew is scum or not are, in fact, the scum. This line feels very much like Persivul knows Drew is town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Persivul

Idk. I don't like the idea of 2 millers. I'm trying my best to remember when I was helping players with balance and game idea's for normal once upon a time ago.
I would like manvs to say whom else they have scum reads on besides drew.

[farside]

Before anyone ask about the date on this account.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/memberlist. ... ile&u=8269
That was my old one. Lost access but hoping one of the higher ups on MS can help me get it back soon.

[farside]

Let me be clear for a second time. Lynching drew would be best in this circumstance.
Im just reading bith slots as town so im continuing scum hunting till close to end of the day.
If anyone wishes to rush this day further without giving reads. Speak now.

[farside]

You are scum!!!!
You are lucky I wanted to play with you this game, but man there is no way I find anything on this page town coming from you.

This is really lazy.

Everyone learns

info is good don't rush the lynch

in their first newbie game. I was on Drew before the claims. I'm mostly town read at this point. There's no incentive for scum!pers to rush the lynch here. As said, in my experience, extending a clear wifom situation generally doesn't help town.

Well I can explain why everything read scummy that page.
The short version is that it reads fake. Each post come off with empty words and im feeling a lot of buddying coming from you.

@drew: this may sound mean but as unabomb continues to post im starting to see him as more of a vi type.

VI type? Sorry, it's been a while, so some acronyms lose me.
?

Spoiler:

Village idiot

. The nice way to say it is he reads a little green behind the ears.

Mans: If there are 2 millers in the game, I don't want the lets lynch the shit out of it without a discussion and if I live to day 2 (which I should given the IC claim) I would fight off your lynch if Drew is town.
I would recommend lynching you before lylo or believe a vig may be out there to get any wifom out of this game.

[farside]

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

I really don't like this from Persivul he's basically not trying to figure anyone out and just lynch the miller claim and if drew is town and manvs is town then isn't that more of a scum benefit?

[farside]

Persi, I agree the Miller claims have to be resolved (and plan on voting Drew today), but do you think there's benefit to rushing it? Since we still have two practically contentless slots?

Yes, I do, as I've said. I think the wifom potential actually muddies the waters.

The wifom does not disclude scum hunting at all. Which is what I see you are not doing.

He could have stayed quiet after the CC or he could have OMGUS voted manvs as scum.
Scum is going to know they are up shit creek with a CC and get defensive. Instead he is still scum hunting. questing people and know he will be lynched.
if he flips scum I would give him a high five for the deceiving so well.

He had to make a choice, either he argues that mavs is scum and this is a ridiculous ballsy play or he argues that there are 2 millers in the game.
If it was me, I'd choose the latter too because it's slightly easier to scare town into believing it cuz they'll lose 2 days if it's true etc etc. He's not scum hunting, he's just questioning people who are voting him and defending himself. Plus he's posting walls whenever he can to make the thread annoying to read.

That's silly. Anyone who's played mafia always knows that once a player is CC'ed they are as good as lynched regardless.
Scum would muddy things up or fight. Do lurk till their lynch is done. IE: No info helps scum more.

@Drew if you are actually town, you should realise the situation we are in. Put yourself in our shoes, if one person claimed miller and another person CCed them. How likely is it that you won't lynch the first person who claimed to be miller?

He has said as much at least 2 times.

[farside]

Someone said that mavs is a good Vig shot even if Drew flips scum, which is just... wrong? A nullish low-content slot like Salad or Knightmare is a much better shot in that case imo.

Also, the longer Una deliberately continues to ignore me, the more annoyed I'm getting, but I'm not sure if I can in good faith call that scummy.

I thought a vig shot should have if drew flips town, but regardless most people don't like miller claims because they can be faked by scum and having them in lylo possibilities leads to a lot of wifom.

[farside]

For a *single* Miller claim, debateable. But a Miller counterclaim?

I am a messed up player that has seen a lot of crazy things playing over all this time.
Lets just say it is not unseen thing, but I don't see it here the type of play that has happened before.

And yes I'm being vague on purpose because it leads to a lot of panic and crazy paranoia.

[farside]

2 scum reads? The PD scum read is a bit of a stretch.
Hi Red Panda. I swear I thought I recognized your name but I saw your join date. Are you an alt of someone? I don't care who, just curious.