Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[CantHateAPuppy]

Hi guys!

Really excited to be here. Sorry I missed the phase start, thought it wasn't for a couple days. Was at work when I realized, but now I'm here.

Please give me a catch up, want to read but 50 pages is too much, might skim. Only thing I've read so far is my own ISO to make sure I wasn't subbing into lynch bait, lol

[CantHateAPuppy]

The L-2 is more a scum leaning thing in my mind than a faulty town read. The potential scum buddying is more of a "come back to this later if it's needed" for me, and others.

I'm also happy to admit that so far, with so few of us truly participating, that while I have you as my number 1 on list of "potential scum" everyone else is tied for second solely due to how early it is, and how little some have participated.

tanner/prana argument D1 strikes me funny, will want to come back to this.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Two miller claims???

Really don't like that, that's just asking for scum to coast to an easy lynch

[CantHateAPuppy]

Yo Puppy, I see you're online again. Mind dropping your claim real quick so we can carry on?

Pupper, we're massclaiming, you're up.

Sorry, just saw this. Can you give me the quick tldr for why we're massclaiming?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Hmm, ok.

VOTE: Knightmare

Whole argument with Drew felt wrong, why argue with miller claim? So I like the back off here

[CantHateAPuppy]

OK, I do not see a world where we have two millers.
I did get some nasty flashbacks from a game where I was a Town-Universal Backup though, and I fought the "claimed Miller"-lynch until the end..
I believe that same game had a Doc and other useful stuff as well, and I got slapped with a Miller-tag starting from N2.

[CantHateAPuppy]

We lynched scum yesterday, it's the day before LyLo, the PoE is narrow, and we might be able to solve the game today. Please claim.

Ok, that makes ssense, sorry for the delay.

Claim VT

Since I have you, you point me to anything I shuold skim over?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Ok, yeah, looking it over looks like we're one from LYLO? Maybe I'll stop reading D1 and just jump straight to D3 for now.

Massclaim makes sense, I'm VT

[CantHateAPuppy]

Can somebody please explain ascetic encrpytor to me? I'm sorry I just don't get it.

Definitely looks like something weird with the setup though

[CantHateAPuppy]

Thanks. must be something really weird going on, think I'll wait for the rest of the massclaim before making my mind up there.

Not trying to bury the thread in posts, just don't have a better system for taking noter, will try to keep things brief

[CantHateAPuppy]

Really like Tanner's #822, if popo is scum then I doh't think this was a bus.

Persi is basically /conftown/, right? Gonna skip over him if so.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Feel kind of squisky on Prana but probtown. #841, #849, and #881 look really negative for no real reason. But I just don't think scum would hammer a bus like that at EOD3.

Page 37 Knightmare vs. George feels like one scum in there, really don't like that they're aguing while voting together, something fake about that.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Vote Count 3.6

Ruby Red

Riabi

(0)

GeorgeBailey (1)Ruby Red;

mavsfan41 (0)

popopopopopopo

Luca Blight

(5)Tanner;Persivul;Knightmare491;GeorgeBailey;PranaDevil;

UnaBombaH (0)

PranaDevil (0)

Knightmare491 (0)

Persivul (2)popopopopopopo;mavsfan41;

Tanner (0)

NoLynch(0)

Not Voting(2):UnaBombaH;

This votecount is wrong, it has 2 not voting but only Unabomber is off wagon? Is someone not counted?

But anyways, if everyone is voting popo, scum

has

to be bussing.

pedit: Tanner, do you have any Prana posts to point me to? I just don't think prana would hammer like that on a scumbuddy.

Oh, you claimed mason, right? Not really clear about that

[CantHateAPuppy]

So... there has to be power roles elsewhere, and YOU WANT TO LYNCH THE CLAIMED TRACKER?

Again, your wavelength is totally off. Now you are mixing scenario A with scenario B.
Because in this particular case we have a claimed Tracker that contradicts the Rolecop claim because of the result presented.
So in this particular case, we are going to lynch one of them anyway, and one of them IS going to flip a town-PR.

Una, can you give me your read on Prana?

There's something I want to figure out but I'm not sure what your take here is.

[CantHateAPuppy]

VOTE: popopopo

Sorry popo

I think cop is the likeliest in this scenario.

If you flip green, then the next two lynches are set for the next two days.

This would be the easiest post to bus on

Doesnt give a reason except setup spec which is a really weak reason. Especially when the setup seems really unusual

[CantHateAPuppy]

Ok, I sort of skimmed at the end, kind of got bored. Mafia is supposed to be fun! But this also looks kind of easy now

Persi/Tanner basically conf, so two scum in Una/George/Prana/Knight. Right now I'll say:

Town

Puppy
Persi
Tanner

Prana

Null

Knight

Scum

George
Una

But this is pretty weak imo, I'll spend some time tomorrow trying to catch up on the rest.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Yo Puppy, I see you're online again. Mind dropping your claim real quick so we can carry on?

Also, this is really weird to me, I swear at 5:45 I was eating dinner with my family.

I don't think you'd lie about this but I really don't get it. Was it my phone? I guess it doesn't matter but tbh I did feel a little creeped out

[CantHateAPuppy]

I don't remember now why that specific post is what stuck out.

What jumped to me was that you were arguing with Prana when it looked like you both wanted to lynch Persi over popo.

I thin you also argued with George in another context when you were both voting the same, too.

So i find that odd -- why argue with the people who are voting with you?

[CantHateAPuppy]

So i find that odd -- why argue with the people who are voting with you?

I feel like I was the only one trying to really harvest the most we possibly could from yesterday.
I tried to create tension to see who might jump ship or bulldoze onwards the hardest.
I feel like the reactions yesterday were there, now it's just up for everyone to interpret them to their best ability.
IMO Prana+George is very reasonable and logical, and most of all, visibly readable from their interactions yesterday.

What I don't like about this is that it looks like you were just setting yourself up for new lynches

You thought Persi was scum, but were really just baiting other players to look scummy instead of working harder to lynch Persi?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Goddammit, I wanted to do a funny and gambit, but I won't, because I doubt I can execute it properly. I'm VT. Sorry Una.

And I don't understand this game.

Damn, I guess I can't read, I thought you claimed mason with Persi? At this point I still want you to be town

[CantHateAPuppy]

In a setup like this where town only has two PRs, IC & the one shot RC. Would there be any harm in giving the scum ungated or shot limited investigatives? Since almost everyone is a VT it makes no real difference.

This would kind of make sense, but why would popo claim tracker if it was someone else on the scumteam who had that role?

Don't know if I buy a "two scum solution" because two millers plus rolecop would always end in two clears. Wasn't there an innocent child too?

[CantHateAPuppy]

I think a point of interest regarding Luca/Una interactions is Luca pushing/"scumcasing" Una on Day 1, and Una Leading a Luca wagon for a bit on Day 2. Do we think that is likely s/s?

I will have to look at this, the only thing I saw was a bit of the miller claims before I went to Day 3. gimme a little time

Two millers definitely needed to be resolved, but that's also a really lazy lynch for scum and I think that would probably be more productive than looking for the other two scum bussing each other

I did "claim Masons" with Persi, but that was a 100% not serious claim. It's my way of saying I'm completely convinced Persi is Town.

Damn, I was really hoping I'd subbed into an easy solve after all!

[CantHateAPuppy]

No, I think it has to be three scum

Why would popo fake tracker if he only had one partner? Even if he lynched Persi yesterday he'd have to know that he'd be lynched next, that doesn't make sense except with three scum

[CantHateAPuppy]

No, I'm going to double down here, 2 scum just doesn't make sense rn and I'm not going to second guess myself here. If there's really only one scum left that will work itself out

[CantHateAPuppy]

Tanner, who else would u lynch besides Prana

Prana, what is this case against una that got ignored? Def want to hear more about that. Because right now it looks like u're angling against everone left, and Tanner has a point that it's not helping

[CantHateAPuppy]

In fact, after my flip, return to this:

Tanner isn't necessarily town, he's latched onto Persi all game thus far, could easily be very clever buddying. He's also tunnelling on me pretty hard, because he views me as the easy lynch.

Knightmare has been tunnelling me all game too (much like I was with Persi admittedly) but keeps diving all over the place, clearly diving on anything deemed an "easy lynch" such as Persi when popo gave the "guilty" verdict. Ask yourselves why.

Una... well there was a great case against him last night that's been conveniently ignored today... look into that as well, the case, and why it has been conveniently dropped today.

Like, say you're town but we lynch you anyways. if i come back to this, what am i supposed to return to here? that u suspect everyone?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Why una last?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Fair, but please look at the Una posts I quoted where he argues with people he's voting with.

Later tonight I will take a look at Day 1 more and think about this some more

[CantHateAPuppy]

So... there has to be power roles elsewhere, and YOU WANT TO LYNCH THE CLAIMED TRACKER?

Again, your wavelength is totally off. Now you are mixing scenario A with scenario B.
Because in this particular case we have a claimed Tracker that contradicts the Rolecop claim because of the result presented.
So in this particular case, we are going to lynch one of them anyway, and one of them IS going to flip a town-PR.

So i find that odd -- why argue with the people who are voting with you?

I feel like I was the only one trying to really harvest the most we possibly could from yesterday.
I tried to create tension to see who might jump ship or bulldoze onwards the hardest.
I feel like the reactions yesterday were there, now it's just up for everyone to interpret them to their best ability.
IMO Prana+George is very reasonable and logical, and most of all, visibly readable from their interactions yesterday.

These two, but also the whole discussion around them. Feels like he's picking fights so he can set up his votes for the future when he knows things will go wrong

[CantHateAPuppy]

Checking in -- going to skip the reread for now, will look later. Looks like no one's on and i don't think we finished that massclaim [?] -- want to see that before i finish making up mind just in case someone doesn't claim VT

[CantHateAPuppy]

Hi everybody!

After sleeping on it i still like Una as scum, that feels most likely, will probably put a vote there soon

This game feels kind of sleepy right now, can't really find much to say to people who have kinda already made up their minds

Like, i get it, a lurker slot makes good sense as teammate, can't really be mad at being suspected for something like that, but it doesn't give me much to talk about when everything else is quiet

Think I'm going to try to read D1 now because I'm having a hard time picking a most likely second teammate

[CantHateAPuppy]

Ok, i read about 10 pages of d1 and found enough things to talk about that i'll go back for the rest later

admit i looked at this with an eye to "we had two town millers so scum was probably coasting on the easy lynch". when easy / policy lynches happen i almmost always find at least one scum pushing the case hard as a way to look town by being genuiine about something

Stiill really liking Tanner, not going to walk through all of it but i think all these posts showed a progression that was trying to solve rather than just tunnel in on lynching millers:

Drew, you're claiming Miller?

I fully expect to be dead by day one. I do, however, intend to make sure my remaining time here is as profitable as possible.

So, if the lot of you would lay down your votes off me, we can hopefully gain additional insight on someone else, in the knowledge we have two definitive townies running around, which means there's only 11 left to scrutinise.

I would also encourage the town cop to investigate someone else, not me.

Isn't it a bit odd to say that you "fully expect to be dead by day one", but then ask for people to remove their votes as you're one of the "definitive townies"?

...how is a Miller claim a more obvious mafia kill than a literal mod-confirmed Innocent Child?

I like your analysis, however it assumes that scum!Drew had the Miller claim ready from the start. Which

could

be the case, but we can't know for certain. If he saw votes building up on him, it's possible he thought of the claim as a way to escape the votes or if a scummate told him to (provided scum has an Encryptor).

And of course, it all assumes Drew flips scum, and while it is my current bet, I wouldn't call it a 100% certainty.

I think at the moment I mostly agree with your list. Other than what I've already said about Knightmare (wasn't pushing Drew until the cc), I'm suspocious of him for somewhat unrelated reasons.

...am ...am I seriously the only person here that knows what a reaction test is? After it has been laid out as such?7

pedit: Knightmare, I'm not talking about your inactivity as a whole (you'll notice I haven't pushed Luca or Riabi who have been the most inactive so far - Riabi up to recently at least.) It's the fact your posts are empty air when you *do* post them.

VOTE: Drew

I mean it would have probably been better if had let him interact with more people and claim later in the day so that we can catch the other scums as well. But oh well

really don't like this, it's like knightmare was just happy to pounce on a miller claim, all while "complaining" about "we didn't let him interact enough"

especially don't like it in combination with this post:

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller

when he was under some pressure.

Mavs later CCed him.

keep seeing the d1 claim that drew was under some pressure and that's why his miller claim was so suspicious

but honestly it didn't look like that much pressure to me, i don't really get this characterization at all. is this just my hindsight speaking? the idea that drew was "under pressure" and that's why he claimed and that's why he had to be lynched -- the "under pressure" seems like an important part of why drew got lynched, i don't think it was true.

@Prana Devil: with a counter-claim, that means at least one is scum right? If I were scum and fake claiming Drew’s miller claim, that would effectively be trading one scum for the miller (drew flips miller and I’m lynched as a liar day 2). That’s such a horrible deal for scum and why would I fake claim a miller to force a mislynch of a miller? Drew fake claimed miller cause he thought he could get away with it. Or else he should just fake claim cop/nurse as a last resort. That way a counterclaim outs the cop/nurse. And he’s trading one scum for a townie power role. But to think scum!Mavs would fake counterclaim a miller to force a mislynch of miller!Drew is ludicrous.

That's pretty much what I said.

Drew is saying there's two millers, and trying to suggest that means there is "3 townies" but... that only works if we assume double miller is a good setup, and I'm not so sure I buy that. It weakens town massively.

I will say though, if we have any millers at all, that means we must have a cop of some description, which means we should try not to announce to many "confirmed" town... mainly because on the off chance we did have two millers, well... scum have 3 town players they can avoid shooting if they're wanting to hit a cop.

That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

This is another post leaning me toward prana being town. i don't think scum would be throwing the breaks on a miller mislynch, i think scum would have had a much easier time believing two miller claims than prana does here

VOTE: Tanner <---- this right is far more likely to yield a scumflip.

Una, again you just keep picking fights with people who are on your side. i just don't get this, u want to lynch miller and lynch tanner? tanner was the one poster who actually had some decent pump breaks on just speed lynching the miller cc's

i know this is the exact opposite reason i just sussed knight for, not being aggressive enough on the miller lynch, but i just genuinely don't see what's town about picking all these different fights

Honestly I almost think George is Town for his spectacularly shitty defense of Drew if Drew ends up flipping red. Bussing as fast as possible is more in line of what I'd expect of his partners.

Prana, are you intentionally pushing the """contradiction"""?

Though I'll concede I'm also curious why Una finds me suspicious.

tanner what do you think of this early take now that drew flipped town? i like most of ur takes, but early it seems like you're saying george is town if drew is scum, and now that drew is town u still seem to be thinking george is town. i don't understand ur progression here

[CantHateAPuppy]

I guess my "current solve" is Prana > Puppy > Knight but I wanna have some sorta certainty on Una but everyone keeps ignoring my attempts to talk about that lmao

Let's talk about una! I have been trying to talk about una all day! (!!!)

[CantHateAPuppy]

Hi Persi!

Since u're on -- what do u make of una holding his vote on d3?

[CantHateAPuppy]

My only thing is that I don't feel much like casing anyone or anything anymore.
If Prana isn't scum, we have a situation where I have not been able read much of anything correctly this game, and we are in a LyLo where I might still need to make a case for myself or we lose.
If Prana is scum, I'm almost willing to be lynched tomorrow if Persivul doesn't reconsider the George-lynch.

VOTE: unabombah

if u still don't have a case on anyone what was the point of picking fights with other posters?

[CantHateAPuppy]

I guess my "current solve" is Prana > Puppy > Knight but I wanna have some sorta certainty on Una but everyone keeps ignoring my attempts to talk about that lmao

Let's talk about una! I have been trying to talk about una all day! (!!!)

My issue with that is that you've not read the game, and I see in your catchup (that i've barely skimmed) some questions that have been answered later.

read most of the game at this point, will try to finish tomorrow, but i'm not going to stop making my points just because u're tired of hearing them

[CantHateAPuppy]

i just don't think it's gonna be prana. scum would not have hammered like that on D3

if u want to vote between me and Una, let's settle this now. i think i have a decent read here that no one is picking up, that's a much better option than voting on a tunnel

[CantHateAPuppy]

prana, if you want to hear it, sure - there's a chance in my mind that you flip green.

An issue I have with you and can't resolve is that you just seem to roll scum all the time.

An old white flag game is all I found that you were in for a significant amount of time. I mean, yeah, maybe you haven't played town enough to know not to be a tunneling, misrepping, AtE little shit. Nothing's sure to town.

Oh, and fear of failure motivates some people in this game, but not me.

It's only a game. If you flip green I'll sleep just fine. So don't pull that shit on me.

that's a contradiction right

[CantHateAPuppy]

This game gives me anxiety and I'm trying to pretend it doesn't exist but one cannot run forever.

Maybe I'm a sucker for AtE but I lowkey think Puppy is more likely to be scum than Una here...

meh, if u want to mislynch me let's get it over with today instead of tomorrow when it's going to be lylo

i don't get it, what do people think we get out of voting prana, no one is even offering other options

[CantHateAPuppy]

i just don't think it's gonna be prana. scum would not have hammered like that on D3

Why not? You've never seen scum bus their buddy before?

We have one mislynch and presumably two scum, so instead of just saying not prana, how about giving us your current three lynches?

una > knight > george

don't want to put george at the end like that, it's a weak read, but i don't think it matters atm if we start with una

[CantHateAPuppy]

prana, if you want to hear it, sure - there's a chance in my mind that you flip green.

An issue I have with you and can't resolve is that you just seem to roll scum all the time.

An old white flag game is all I found that you were in for a significant amount of time. I mean, yeah, maybe you haven't played town enough to know not to be a tunneling, misrepping, AtE little shit. Nothing's sure to town.

Oh, and fear of failure motivates some people in this game, but not me.

It's only a game. If you flip green I'll sleep just fine. So don't pull that shit on me.

that's a contradiction right

No, not at all.

Persi, it really sounds like u want to lynch prana because u see him rand scum all the time. that's a dumb reason. that just reinforces my belief that u're tunneling and there isn't much of a case here

[CantHateAPuppy]

Persi, that's what I mean. I think Puppy/Prana is unlikely. I think Knight/Prana is unlikely. Okay cool if Prana flips red we lynch Una and I was wrong somewhere and good job gold star we did it.

But my issue is that I don't think Una is scum, and in my mind that's the only viable partner for Prana. So that's making me doubt myself. And then I see both Knight and Puppy "aligning" a lynch on Una tomorrow and it's making me feel even worse. Do you think Puppy's Prana read could be TMI?

I know I've been wrong before on preflip-associates like this before but I cannot in good conscience say I feel "good" about this lynch anymore. I understand how bad that slot looks. Trust me, I do. But I don't think I can at least not voice these concerns that I have.

if u think i'm scum with knight, then why lynch prana today? 1 before lylo is supposed to be about resolving ambiguities. i would rather the rest of the town pick between me/una than go into tomorrow on a 50-50

[CantHateAPuppy]

Persi, that's what I mean. I think Puppy/Prana is unlikely. I think Knight/Prana is unlikely. Okay cool if Prana flips red we lynch Una and I was wrong somewhere and good job gold star we did it.

But my issue is that I don't think Una is scum, and in my mind that's the only viable partner for Prana. So that's making me doubt myself. And then I see both Knight and Puppy "aligning" a lynch on Una tomorrow and it's making me feel even worse. Do you think Puppy's Prana read could be TMI?

I know I've been wrong before on preflip-associates like this before but I cannot in good conscience say I feel "good" about this lynch anymore. I understand how bad that slot looks. Trust me, I do. But I don't think I can at least not voice these concerns that I have.

if u think i'm scum with knight, then why lynch prana today? 1 before lylo is supposed to be about resolving ambiguities. i would rather the rest of the town pick between me/una than go into tomorrow on a 50-50

This game was a lot of work to sub into, i don't want to deal with lylo tomorrow if it's going to be me arguing with my townread not to hammer me

if u will take down una tomorrow i will gladly eat the mislynch today, i don't see why u want to to go all in on a slot that doesn't clear ur head at all

[CantHateAPuppy]

In fact, your play right now makes me return to suspecting you as being scum and playing town like a it's a fine tuned guitar. Because it's exactly my issue with you that made me suspect you before.

You refuse to actually discuss and consider anything other than what you are tunnelling on. You make a decision and you aim for confirmation bias, such as hunting out my past games (most of which are nearly TEN years old) and are happy to ignore any and all town wins I had... such as, y'know... the one I used past wagons to help win the game... which I was nominated a scummy for as I nailed the entire scum team when I replaced in...

prana u're just hurting ur own case here

it's obv not Persi, he's the one actual PR we seem to have in this game, do u think we're in 3:10 mountainous with 2 millers or something? That would be bastard!

don't overthink it, the game becomes a lot clearer when u decide not to wifom urself into a weird guessing game about a scum deep bus or two scum total

[CantHateAPuppy]

Persi, it really sounds like u want to lynch prana because u see him rand scum all the time. that's a dumb reason. that just reinforces my belief that u're tunneling and there isn't much of a case here

LOL - wow, this is so bad it's actually funny.

Hey pup, what do you think of prana's argument that my role is negative utility?

what's bad about it? U said u wanted to lynch prana because he rolls scum a lot and that worries u. if he flips green and i have to argue with tanner tomorrow, that will be ur fault and i would rather yell at u for it now rather than later

prana's argument that ur role is negative is also wrong, we're all overthinking it. This isn't some bastard setup with two scum or a a million millers or a deep scum bus, it's two millers resolved with role cop, that's it. i'm willing to stake the game on that because over thinking it it worse at this point

[CantHateAPuppy]

This game was a lot of work to sub into

Oh bullshit, you haven't read the game. You point to a single vote, from the end of yesterday, to proclaim prana town.

This is wrong! I am going to say it again to try to feel better about it
THIS! IS! WRONG!

I subbed into a lurkbait Day 4, I get it, but I read D3 and D1 and half of D2, and i think i can say that you're the one tunneling here not me

If Prana flips green I don't want to be the one to talk everyone down from losing the game, and if you're going to be the one to tunnel I'm right to be a little mad about it

[CantHateAPuppy]

I subbed into a lurkbait Day 4, I get it, but I read D3 and D1 and half of D2, and i think i can say that you're the one tunneling here not me

If Prana flips green I don't want to be the one to talk everyone down from losing the game, and if you're going to be the one to tunnel I'm right to be a little mad about it

So try to convince people by making a full case that prana is town.

Scum don't bus like that

is about all you've said so far, and that doesn't seem to be convincing anyone.

what's the case

for lynching

prana

he was wrong all game, then bussed popo at the last minute because he was angling for the perfect scumgame?

if prana is scum, why does he kill the miller last night? why not kill you since you suspect him so much?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Like I said earlier - Prana has been practicing this the whole game.

yesterday you weren't on either wagon, but claimed u would have voted for Persi. (Why? Did you think a moment of candor would make you look town?)

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Puppy, mavs was suspecting Prana upon a popo red flip way more, please read the game.

I think if Prana were to flip Town today that means at least one scumfuck was trying to get Una lynched tomorrow.

if prana flips green how does that make Una the obvious lynchbait? didn't you just say you don't have much certainty on that slot?

I don't want why you seem to have your mind made up to lynch prana when you admit that you aren't sure he'll flip scum, and if he doesn't flip scum then you will be completely unsure.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Like I said earlier - Prana has been practicing this the whole game.

yesterday you weren't on either wagon, but claimed u would have voted for Persi. (Why? Did you think a moment of candor would make you look town?)

You can't make it any more clear to us that you didn't REALLY read D3.
I voted for Persivul near the end of the day.
I unvoted so that we surely had the time to make our last posts before the EoD, all of us, but I only voted for that.
My work ended and I returned in time to place my vote back on Persivul, but they had already lynched popopo.

And the only reason why I really wanted to say that, was because
A) lying about it would be anti-town IMO
b) faking that I had somehow switched my reads around even when I hadn't, only mixes it up for town.

But hey, nice narratives on your wagon.
Make a squared hole on the side and start performing for kids.

This is a distinction without a difference, you would have voted for Persi if you had the chance, I think admitting that is trying to look town by "too scummy to be scum"

If you aren't scum, then it would have to be Knight/George -- actually, it would be funny if we were all just yelling at each other while they chilled out...

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Puppy, mavs was suspecting Prana upon a popo red flip way more, please read the game.

I think if Prana were to flip Town today that means at least one scumfuck was trying to get Una lynched tomorrow.

if prana flips green how does that make Una the obvious lynchbait? didn't you just say you don't have much certainty on that slot?

I don't want why you seem to have your mind made up to lynch prana when you admit that you aren't sure he'll flip scum, and if he doesn't flip scum then you will be completely unsure.

Because if Prana is green then at least one scum is in Puppy/Knight - and you are both saying Una is scum. And I don't get a feeling that's a bus.

Yeah, I'm not sure he'll flip scum. His slot is absolutely horrendeous. But I get the feeling he's running out of viable partners. If he's red Puppy>Una makes at least some sense.

Help me figure out your priorities here because I think they're wrong

If Prana is green and you think one of me/knight is scum, and I/he couldn't be bussing Una, then it's have to me me/knight and george, right?

If I'm wrong and Prana is red, then...?

[CantHateAPuppy]

If you aren't scum, then it would have to be Knight/George -- actually, it would be funny if we were all just yelling at each other while they chilled out...

Good attempt at trying to cool the tensions, but that's a scum manoeuvre you just tried to pull there.

MAFIA IS ABOUT YELLING AT PEOPLE

Sorry love, that's not how this works, at least, some of the time, if I can help it.

[CantHateAPuppy]

If you're wrong and Prana is red, then Puppy>Una.

All right, so you have me as scum either way, right? Well, I dunno, should I even tell you that your priorities are warped? But they're clearly warped if you want to mislynch me tomorrow if you think i'm the clear scum.

if you have a clear scum you should lynch, if you aren't sure then you should resolve a slot you don't want in lylo. would rather you just lynch me now than we go through this same exact argument tomorrow. (Though even better, let's lynch Una or Knight and resolve a slot

and

hit scum.)

[CantHateAPuppy]

It's not that team. No way did they both bus popo. One of them was on the Persi wagon at a bare minimum. The only way both scum would be on popo would be if there was not a second wagon going, and scum hammered popo.

No, you're right, there's no use overthinking it. If it's a question of who was on/off the Persi wagon, one scum on one scum off makes the most sense, so it's Una and someone else, I think scum 2 is knight before george

[CantHateAPuppy]

This is a distinction without a difference, you would have voted for Persi if you had the chance, I think admitting that is trying to look town by "too scummy to be scum"

No, that was me making it clear my INTENTIONS weren't to fence-sit until the end.
That's what I was "accused" of.
And I admitted to being undecided and vague with my reads and plays until I felt like voting, but I also explained why.
I wanted all the materials, all the reads I could get.
And then when I wasn't able to return in time to place my vote, and get called for not deciding in the end....?
Of course I want to clarify that I had indeed decided, but I'm not going to lie about just to "look townier".
That's what scum do.

But this is the same thing I said -- you admitted you were off the wagon so you would look town, i don't think it matters if you did it because someone accused you about it or because you knew it had to be addressed, it would have had to have been discussed either way.

But hey, since you're out here trying to color the opposite as scummy too, mind telling me how choosing either of the two options makes me scum?
And remember, you can't say I'm scum because I'm scum.
Or scum for not doing A but also for doing B and the two are mutually exclusive.
You'll either end with conf.bias or circular reasoning, and neither are good.

But I don't think it matters, Prana is right, there has to be one scum on the Persi wagon and one scum off. That leaves you as scum unless both scum were on the Persi wagon -- that wouldn't make any sense, why would both scum bus popo? I don't think that makes any sense

[CantHateAPuppy]

But this is the same thing I said -- you admitted you were off the wagon so you would look town

What. On. Earth. Are. You. Smoking?
I have never, nor would I ever, admit to having been off the wagon to "look town".

It doesn't even matter what you wrote below this, I refuse to read any further tonight.
You have absolutely worn me out with this final blow.

no, it's not as unreasonable as u make it out -- u made the "admission" to look town, not that u didn't choose a wagon to look town. please get it right before u mislynche me

[CantHateAPuppy]

p-edit: puppy, why is prana right that there there has to be one scum on the Persi wagon and one scum off?

both scum bussing just doesn't make sense, if that were the case popo didn't need to bother with his cc at all

the whole point of the cc is to get u lynched, right? if that was the scum goal for the day then why would both partners vote for popo? if they were going to vote together, could have just voted against u and gotten the mislynch through. two scum on wagon only makes sense if one of them is u/tanner, and i'm ruling that out for now

[CantHateAPuppy]

p-edit: puppy, why is prana right that there there has to be one scum on the Persi wagon and one scum off?

both scum bussing just doesn't make sense, if that were the case popo didn't need to bother with his cc at all

the whole point of the cc is to get u lynched, right? if that was the scum goal for the day then why would both partners vote for popo? if they were going to vote together, could have just voted against u and gotten the mislynch through. two scum on wagon only makes sense if one of them is u/tanner, and i'm ruling that out for now

LOL - what about no scum?

a "no scum persi" wagon means me/una, thinking.gif

no, gonna reject that one boss

[CantHateAPuppy]

p-edit: puppy, why is prana right that there there has to be one scum on the Persi wagon and one scum off?

both scum bussing just doesn't make sense, if that were the case popo didn't need to bother with his cc at all

the whole point of the cc is to get u lynched, right? if that was the scum goal for the day then why would both partners vote for popo? if they were going to vote together, could have just voted against u and gotten the mislynch through. two scum on wagon only makes sense if one of them is u/tanner, and i'm ruling that out for now

LOL - what about no scum?

a "no scum persi" wagon means me/una, thinking.gif

no, gonna reject that one boss

god i hope persi isn't scum in some kind of master scum deep bus fakeclaim strategy here, it just sounds stupid for me to even have to answer this question

graveyard, if i screw the pooch on this one i'm sorry, persi just doesn't make sense here, im not going to wifom myself into the most improbable scumteam here

[CantHateAPuppy]

I mean, look at puppy. He's misrepping me. He's misrepping una. He put a town read on prana with the flimsiest of reasoning. I don't need to solve the entire game around him in order to scum read him.

i am not misrepping u and my town read is not flimsy

u said urself that u were partly reading prana as scum because he rolled scum a lot and u were worried about that. Do i have to write an essaj on 50 pages of game material to note that this is bad and tunneling?

honestly i kind of get where prana is coming from now,

[CantHateAPuppy]

towncore is talking about signing up for another game in this thread. i don't know how to put a positive spin on this

sorry guys, i tried, please don't blame me when town cocks it up and my mislynch ends in a bad loss

[CantHateAPuppy]

Tanner, you're making yourself crazy. We don't need to solve the game today. We flip prana today. That's more information, and

likely still a mislynch in hand.

Scum kill someone tonight. That's more information. It's just a game. Relax.

[CantHateAPuppy]

prana, please tell me it would be wasting my time iso'ing persi and/or tanner

Please tell me it's a waste of time, i shouldn't outthink the setup, and it's just bad town not deep game scum

i don't want to reskim 60 pages just to feel more confidant in what looks like the obvious conclusion

[CantHateAPuppy]

Tanner, you're making yourself crazy. We don't need to solve the game today. We flip prana today. That's more information, and

likely still a mislynch in hand.

Scum kill someone tonight. That's more information. It's just a game. Relax.

[CantHateAPuppy]

why is there an "ascetic encryptor" as a guilty for a 1x rolecop if the mod knew there were going to be two millers and the rolecop would obviously check one

[CantHateAPuppy]

no, no no no no no

i am overthinking this, there are two scum and popo did not bus his scummate with a tracker guilty

[CantHateAPuppy]

Would love to. But I would be lying if I didn't think it was an elaborate bluff by them.

Do I think it actually is? No, I don't think popo attacks a scum partner yesterday. Popo could have easily caled out someone else, or claimed Doc to see if there was a counter claim. Scum-popo doesn6try and lynch scum-Persi.

Tanner could have been budding Persi all game. Persi clearly has an ego he wants massaged.

I still stand by Knight/Una

And Puppy, Persi clearly is talking like I'm scum, thus theres a mislynch left to go. Before Lylo. Much as I would love to call him scum for it.

read the quote again, persi is clearly saying that there's a mislynch

after

u flip today

the only way that doesnt look weird to u is if u are scum and know ur lunch will give us another mislunch

[CantHateAPuppy]

i can't get this out of my head now

someone last page told me that popo was the obvious D3 lynch and that's the most plausible reason why he claimed tracker with a gulity on persi

"that could not possibly be a bus, i am overthinking it" please tell me this

[CantHateAPuppy]

Why would popo fake tracker if he only had one partner? Even if he lynched Persi yesterday he'd have to know that he'd be lynched next, that doesn't make sense except with three scum

popo was on L-1 already and it was very very likely he was gonna get lynched. a successful gambit like that would've at least earned him a mislynch and another night. it was a desperate hail-mary.[/quote]


OK, this is what i was remembering. this is fine. there is no way that scum being lunched would have gambitted with a guilty on his partner

right?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Okay. I dont see much else needed.
Scum reads:

red panda, luca, knight/persivul

.

Im more confident of my rd scum read. I may expect better from persivul so my scum read maybe bias.

Vote: drew

I don't see people ending the wifom for drew.

why did scum kill the innocent child N2 and farside N1

she named the luca slot, would scum kill over just one right read? was it persi or knight?

[CantHateAPuppy]

no, no no no no no no no

it's too late to do this, i am going to sleep and when i wake up this will all just be another stupid wifom paranoia nonsense maneuver

[CantHateAPuppy]

Puppy, put it this way.

Even if you are right, and Persi is scum... this town isn't letting that lynch go through. So it's not worth your brain power.

You or Una is scum.

So tomorrow, you vote Una, Una votes you, and everyone else makes their mind up between you.

Either town lynch scum, or they lose.

If they lynch scum, they can have another go with the trio of Tanner, George and Knightmare.

The only way any of that changes is if Persi is scum.

Even then... Tanner AND Persi aren't scum who bus popo. So Persi would be scum with Puppy or Una.

Wither way, Una or Puppy need lynching tomorrow, it's the only logical lynch.

no, this doesn't make sense

if scum is between me/una, then who is the scum bussing popo? someone has to be scum on the popo wagon

if it's not u then i need ur take on who is the scum on the popo wagon

i don't get this from ur pov at all

[CantHateAPuppy]

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.

5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

how can persi believe this if he is going to role cop the second miller that night?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Scum reads: red panda, luca, knight/persivul.

I just read farside's ISO. I see no PR crumbs, so she was presumably killed for her reads. She scum read saladman. He was replaced by panda. She scum read panda and said she was most confident in that read. Panda looks really bad on page 23.

VOTE: Red Panda

it's too late i'm in the rabbit hole now

[CantHateAPuppy]

Conftown

Wake88

- IC doing nothing

mavsfan41

- by my understanding of normal millers, he's IC to me. I considered the way far out there idea that a scum universal backup could have made a great play there, but reading up it seems that normal UBs only inherit roles from their own faction. So, I think it's mechanically impossible for him to be scum considering normal rules and my result.

Town

(No particular order within a group)

Riabi

- When I went to make this list, I knew this guy had posted somewhat but couldn't remember what he said. That's usually a bad sign, but I read his ISO, and it looks fine.

Tanner

Knightmare491

Null

UnaBombaH
PranaDevil
GeorgeBailey

These three have all managed to put up a lot of words without really saying much at all. Not the Una I'm used to.

Luca Blight

- Had him in scum initially due to farside's read, but read his ISO and I'm not so sure. If salad slot flips red, 366 might mean luca slot is green. Scum usually aren't so obviously together in reads that early.

Scum

Red Panda

Saladman27

Okay, can we lynch popo now?

Prana and popo are both in my scum pool. Those are the leading wagons and the game has stalled, so good chance they're both scum.

VOTE: popopopopo

L-1

persi has luca -> popo as his next scumread after popo

but only finally votes for popo when that wagon is at L-2 and on D3 when they could have worked out a plot before

[CantHateAPuppy]

why is there an ascetic encryptor for the role cop to get a "guilty" on if the role cop is 1 shot

why? makes no sense for that role to be in the game if the rolecop is never going to inspect it because the rolecop will always check one of the millers

[CantHateAPuppy]

Puppy, there are two scum left.

One is between you and Una. One is between Tanner, George and Knightmare.

Stop posting drivel.

why is there an ascetic encryptor for the role cop to get a "guilty" on if the role cop is 1 shot

why? makes no sense for that role to be in the game if the rolecop is never going to inspect it because the rolecop will always check one of the millers

answer me this question

[CantHateAPuppy]

All right, I slept on it, I'm overthinking it

Even if Person was somehow scum in some deep bus late game Gambit, there's still another scum and that's going to be the easiest to suss out

Just give me a little time here, I don't have the same confidence in my reads I had before

[CantHateAPuppy]

both scum bussing just doesn't make sense, if that were the case popo didn't need to bother with his cc at all

This is speaking with the knowledge of what actually ended up happening.
Consider it from a scum-perspective, and yet again, potentially without day-chat to help with the communication.
Both remaining scum really might've ended up bussing for multiple reasons.
Considering the fact that your slot is the one that has had replacements galore, and there's a can of worms about potential reasons.
People not agreeing on actions / each others' gambits / bussing vs derailing wagons etc etc.

Add it all to the fact that people simply don't play an optimized version of the game very often, if ever.
I guess we'll find out the reasonings for each individual nightkill at the endgame, but even those choices don't seem all very logical to me.
But that's all just guessing until the game's over.

No, this is fair, I'm probably a little too tunneled on the pic where I'm town and my slot lurked all day so scum HAS to be one-on one-off.

Why did I torture myself by subbing into a lategame D4? :p

[CantHateAPuppy]

this is a useless list based off the assumption that scum bussed, if puppy is scum he could not have bussed anyway.

Is this a slip?

[CantHateAPuppy]

this is a useless list based off the assumption that scum bussed, if puppy is scum he could not have bussed anyway.

Is this a slip?

knight thinks it's prana and me or una

if he thinks it's me/una than he's admitting he doesn't think prana is scum, no?

[CantHateAPuppy]

still una/knight

not much to add, might go on vacation so a shorter phase would be better imo

[CantHateAPuppy]

never mind, it got cancelled at the last minute :[

meh, i don't think this changes much, una is right but still i think one scum off persi d3 one scum on makes the most sense. will go through later and think about it some more just to be sure

[CantHateAPuppy]

From my POV it's pretty clear, I do not see GB being scum due to interactions with popo and Persivul cannot be scum.
So it has to be puppy + una by POE.

From my POV it's pretty clear, I do not see GB being scum due to interactions with popo and Persivul cannot be scum.
So it has to be puppy + una by POE.

This is exactly why I cannot be scum, due to my day 3 play. If I was actually scum I never vote popo, either get force a no lynch by voting Persivul or get him lynched. That's a straight ticket to lylo plus getting rid of confirmed town.
Kill tanner the next night, then lynch popo, kill mavs. Then today would be lylo with PD still available to mislynch with whoever my imaginary scum buddy is.
All of that did not happen.

i just don't get this

yesterday you voted pd, today you are suggesting that no scum bussed popo D3 if you think it's me/una

it seems like u missed a step. why did you decide no scum bussed popo? did that not factor into your PD vote yesterday?

[CantHateAPuppy]

But my issue is that I don't think Una is scum, and in my mind that's the only viable partner for Prana. So that's making me doubt myself. And then I see both Knight and Puppy "aligning" a lynch on Una tomorrow and it's making me feel even worse. Do you think Puppy's Prana read could be TMI?

This is kinda resonating with me. Re-reading Puppy's slot, It looks like they've mostly been on vanity wagons that they've barely pushed.

are you accusing me or the players i subbed in for

[CantHateAPuppy]

VOTE: popopopo

Sorry popo

I think cop is the likeliest in this scenario.

If you flip green, then the next two lynches are set for the next two days.

this might be a stupid question since i don't think the answer really matters

but if popo had been telling the truth, who would the next two lynches have been? i get that popo CC'd persi, so that's obviously one, but I don't see who the second would be.

[CantHateAPuppy]

The other one who basically had no necessary "need" to vote on popopo at that point was George, but they did it anyway.
Knightmare couldn't have swapped because he was already on popopo with Tanner and Persivul.
Which is why it's so "easy" to pin it down on "Una+Puppy".

but there's no way it could be knight/george, right? that just doesn't make sense, i don't get why both scum would bus.

although i think someone (tanner?) said that popo was going down before his fakeclaim anyways, so maybe it was engineered this way so that both scum could bus and get credit for it. i find it super unlikely, but this is also the possibility that worries me most.

[CantHateAPuppy]

hey guys

feel like i should have more to say but i've been kind of putting my games off

truth is una/knight > george just feels right to me, i don't want to tunnel in lylo but since prana's flip i haven't had much reason to reconsider. otoh, lately my scumreads have never been right. kind of struggling with the apathy.

honestly una's tone kind of strikes me as town the last few pages, but i just don't think it's knight/george.

[CantHateAPuppy]

VOTE: knightmare

I guess it must be knightmare,unless for some reason it's una/George and then we've lost anyways. But this at least made me feel better:

And as you can see he did not come back to vote. They were probably hoping for a no lynch.

Scum hoping for a no lunch day 3? After a counterclaim? That's wild. No way that's town

[CantHateAPuppy]

Persi, do you think knight is bussing with 1792 and 1775? Ive said before I thought una looked bad D3. And the last scum wouldn't be George when popo tried implicating him too with his n1 fake.

Unless scum planned it that way. But I don't know that makes sense now, thinking popo planned to get lynched to cast suspicion on a partner we would clear for it seems like too much wifom. Easier to think knight is bussing here at the last moment.

[CantHateAPuppy]

I thought you didn't like to have arguments

[CantHateAPuppy]

I'm comfortable lynching knight, especially now that no one's quickhammered. He's a safer Lynch than una, he basically has to be scum.

I still don't think this is a two scum game. If it is, and it's just one of una/knight/george

Then knight is still the best Lynch. Graveyard can curse me if I'm weong

[CantHateAPuppy]

If it's a two scum game than that really reopens the question of why popo fakeclaimed when he did

Actually, nevermind, it would be the same theory, he was going to get lynched and tried to save himself. The only difference is if there's just two scum, it's less likely scum would have bussed.

So, knight > una

[CantHateAPuppy]

Actually, nevermind, it would be the same theory, he was going to get lynched and tried to save himself.

Not really. He laid the groundwork early in the day. It was planned.

did he? Haven't seen any talk of breadcrumbs but if I guess I can check and see. If he planned it out in advance that definitely implies scum had a plan. again this implies 3:2

He's a safer Lynch than una, he basically has to be scum.

How so?

u just said as much anyways, but since nobody quickhammered on Knight it can't be george/una so knight has to be scum. the straggler is probably una

[CantHateAPuppy]

im still scum reading nightmare.

persivul lied yesterday and i believe he is still not being truthful with us.

ok, not exactly a crumb but I get the point. If scum had it planned out I think the last scum really has to be una

[CantHateAPuppy]

there is an inactive slot in this game. we also don't know for sure there are 3 scum. this post is pure WIFOM.

i know tanner brought this up already and i dismissed it at the time

but seen now it stands out even more not less

[CantHateAPuppy]

ok, just saw the hammer, not sure why it didn't show up as a pedit

will say it looks like una's already trying to position me as the lynch in f3

so maybe popo was just inducing paranoia. it's probably 3 scum still

[CantHateAPuppy]

2 hours since hammer and no comment from knight makes me feel pretty good right now ngl

[CantHateAPuppy]

What the actual fuck.
It was really just a 11:2?

I do not even care much which of you is the remaining scum.
This must've been a bs game for the scumteam to wiggle through anyway, and town was at a ridiculous situation because they couldn't have possibly solve the whole team because every good theory was based on 10:3.
Guess this is me saying that I'm not a fan of the Normal Queue anymore.

this is me rn

[CantHateAPuppy]

it's 11:2 with two millers, a useless encryptor, no cop, no protective, vig, nothing, and our conf-town (?!) rolecop is still alive for some reason

two millers, useless miller-like role, innocent child, 1x rolecop, 11:2

im actually a little floored, this honestly this is worse than my paranoia

[CantHateAPuppy]

Okay. I have not slept the entire night (again...). So you get this angry-ish rant that I will type up over my coffee.

Una, if I gave you my side of why {town!Tanner + scum!mavs + scum!Persi} was unlikely (something you wonder in 1191, from which I got the impression you don't think all three of us are scum), would you consider voting popo?

I asked this of Una twice, I got ignored. Whatever, I'm going to type it anyway so that tomorrow I can point at it and say "I fucking told you so."

Imagine a scenario in which

I (Tanner) am Town, but Persivul is scum

. You with me? Ok. Have you

seen

my play this Dayphase? Look me in the eyes and tell me that, if Persivul is ever to flip scum, I am not immediately lynched after him. You can't. Because it's true. If Persi is to ever, EVER flip scum in this game, I have signed my own death certificate and will fall down right after him like a domino.

You still with me? Let's carry on.

It is Day 3, most likely 3v6. Do you know what scum!Persi's partners need to do to secure a victory?
(1) Sheep me onto popo. Choose literally any of my countless posts where I'm yelling how popo is a scumfuck and jump on that wagon. popo gets lynched and flips green.
(2) Day 4 is 3v4, with Persivul as outed scum. He is obviously immediately lynched.
(3) Day 5, you have 2v3. And you have poor ol' Tanner. Tell me I don't get lynched there after Persivul flipped red. Because I do. I am the most free mislynch in that lylo imaginable. Which is also the last mislynch scum needs to win this game.

Now, if scum!Persi's partners can win this game so easily, why oh why aren't scum!Persi's partners jumping onto popo's wagon under the shield of Tanner who will be turned into the 5p lylo fallguy?

Because they don't exist.

(or in simple terms because I guess this Town needs it: because Persivul is not scum.)

tl;dr of the above rant: if you think I am Town, you need to vote popo.

bonus round!

Persivul and mavs pretty much have to be the same alignment (as i have very simply explained. multiple times.). While their play this Dayphase is obviously unaligned, there is this following fun interaction that points in the direction of "Persi/mavs are not S/S":

Spoiler: tell me that (1) scum!mavs mixes up his partner's avatar with mine OR that (2) scum!mavs ever bothers to fake this interaction.

This is really simple.

1. Two millers in a mini normal is extremely unlikely.
2. We had a miller claim.
3. We had a counter claim.
4. We lynch the first claim today.
5. If that lynch flips miller, we lynch the counter claim tomorrow.

Let's not overthink this.

This situation - a D1 counterclaim - is what you dream of as town. Then when you finally get it, people insist on screwing it up.

Tanner’s 273 & 274 are EXACTLY on point!

Tanner’s 273 & 274 are EXACTLY on point!

Who's?

Whoops...... sorry about that! You both have similar avatars. It was an honest mistake.

PERSIVUL’S 273 & 274 are on point. Thanks for the correction.

Lynching what is almost certainly scum day 1 is a blessing for town.

which brings us to my last point:

It is less than 24 hours left on the clock. We need a fucking lynch. Stop pussy-footing because you don't know whether you need to bus popo or not, be a man, and fucking VOTE.

there is an inactive slot in this game. we also don't know for sure there are 3 scum. this post is pure WIFOM.

well, at least we know why popo made this post!

[CantHateAPuppy]

[CantHateAPuppy]

it has to be una, right?

like, it can't be persi, i don't know how persi gets to 3p lylo but even here it still doesn't make sense

would scum una take my d4 paranoia as an invitation for a gambit to lynch persi? that doesn't make sense. hm.

i guess if una is scum it would make more sense to try to go up against me than to go up against george

but why take george out at all? why not take persi out?

[CantHateAPuppy]

i think i have to be overthinking it again

even if all my thoughts have basically been wrong until this point

it still comes down to D3. did popo bus persi or was he trying to get a lynch in.

i will go and reread that phase again (again again!) but una holding back on bussing makes a lot more sense than popo and persi doing busplay for a long gambit

[CantHateAPuppy]

in 11:2 does bussing even make sense? scum would almost always be in the slots that didn't bus. that would be una, which would explain why he's kept me alive instead of killing me when i've suspected him all along

[CantHateAPuppy]

normally in lylo like this i woud go back and look at the d1 wagons and draw pretty green and red colors around all the flips. is that even worth my time when we had two millers and a IC and there was basically no normal wagon development?

[CantHateAPuppy]

scum has to have known all along that it was 11:2

which means: scum has to have known we'd get paranoid and under the right conditions might throw all reads out the window for a null f3

that would kind of make sense as a long-term strategy. if una is scum it's a pretty smart tactic, actually, because he could keep ignoring persi and dealing with all the players who were on the popo wagon

[CantHateAPuppy]

It just hit me btw.
Assume Persivul really checked mavs.
He risked the fact that there WAS indeed a Vig, and his result would've been for nothing.

Would be in character for una to go for the wifom Gambit on persi imo

[CantHateAPuppy]

I dare you to vote me Persi.
If it's scum!puppy, you are not voting there today anyway, what with your FoS and all..

OK. I didn't want to put the replacement in the position of deciding the game, since that sucks and should really be my responsibility, but since you're double dog daring me...
VOTE: Una

VOTE: una

[CantHateAPuppy]

Sorry guys. GG

This was a weird game, subbing in as the only scum in 11:2 on a lurker slot is one of the most unusual situations I've ever been put in

[CantHateAPuppy]

Like, I don't think the setup was as bad as some people think, but since I was the only scum and my slot had almost no content,.it almost wasn't mafia

Not the mods fault I think, it wasn't just the setup but the setup plus the inactivity

[CantHateAPuppy]

I realized early on that:

* I had to keep una alive or I'd get lynched by POE, so I had to make weak pushes there

* To compensate, I had to believe what I was saying to look convincing, that would only happen if I was having fun, and the only way I could have fun is if I went for wifom paranoia by keeping persi qlive

[CantHateAPuppy]

Popo straight up bluffed on the tracker. Scum chat was pretty empty, I'm not sure both scum were ever on at the same phase

So I had a lot of fun but I'm not sure it really "counts"

Originally I wanted to fake JK, a protective role would've been believed I think, but I had to claim something that would plausibly live to f3

[CantHateAPuppy]

Thanks. I think it was easier because of the layout. Like, maybe d4 when I subbed in some people would have thought I was scum by POE, but nobody would have believed that there was only one scum and it was the lurker slot

I was having a hard time caring when I realized how weird it was and how little chance I had, so I went for the persi paranoia because that was something I thought I could act

[CantHateAPuppy]

The hardest kill was n3, had not interacted with anybody so I couldn't predict anything. Had had a few different ideas but I figured Mavs was pretty cleared

Tanner said he would kill me no matter how prana flipped, was worried someone would notice that

George just made sense based on the strategy id played

[CantHateAPuppy]

Obviously not your fault puppy, but having lurker-slots in the game is always bad for town.
It's harder to consistently fake reads and keep a fake-trajectory going throughout 1-5 days, rather than jump in midgame and just "solve" the game based on flips.

I think that was the real problem with this setup

Normally D1 gets a lot of info as slots flip and more info gets filled in. All that was sort of taken away with all the millers and the IC. Reading back never made sense, so everything came to be about D3

I don't think it was a bad setup or wrong to have two Millers, I just think the way it shook out with subs and all made people get tired and cranky

[CantHateAPuppy]

Anyways, thanks guys, this was my first game back on MS in 5 years and my first scum game in 6. Had fun and would play with any of you again

[CantHateAPuppy]

two quick thoughts since i'm the one who had to play it as scum:

* 11:2 helped town more than scum because it limited my options. a lot of options like fake claims were closed to me because whatever lies i'd tell would have to survive to 3p lylo. obviously helped scum that i was the only one who knew for sure it was 11:2, but at best that makes it a wash

* i think the setup was "balanced" but swingy. the real problem with 11:2 is that the game can become much more unbalanced depending on who's active. 3 scum with one lurker is much less serious than 2 scum with one lurker. i think a lot of the division is that reason, the setup was balanced but not this particular game had a lot of subs that skewed it wrong

i thought it was fine, i don't hate it, but i don't think the setup made the game more fun