Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Vecna]

Morning tweet and Gamma Emerald already feel like they want to murder us all by grinding us into mincemeat with some contraption

[Vecna]

VOTE: Morning tweet

[Vecna]

*Pine has been replaced by JULIUS CAESAR*

please?

[Vecna]

I need to be called a plebeian more often

[Vecna]

is it an alt or something? or do you consider 2 years long? :p

*looks at join date*

[Vecna]

VOTE: A50

[Vecna]

VOTE: Pine

I am town

I do not believe this post

VOTE: BBmolla

[Vecna]

By the way im wantes to comment about being fingered by pisskop, but he's like a kid brother and the idea gave me hives.

Trying to brush off all the suspicion with odd humor now are we?

*puts on a monocle and stares*

[Vecna]

The recorded switches off. Morning Tweet throws it to the ground.

That's valuable evidence, Morning Tweet! Careful with that.

Pick tape up and examine for fingerprints.

It self destructs in response.

Sigh, there goes my arm. Well, at least I have another one.

Cry.

I have a feeling this will be a game of joy

[Vecna]

Hectic is Dr Fire Mario now. That sounds like it's gonna be in the Mario Kart Gacha game soon.

In other news, I decided 7 is a lucky number, and the person 7 spots below me is a guy named Drixx. So imma start there.

VOTE: Drixx

Randomizers to determine RSVP votes are inherently scummy. Real town come up with a better sucky gimmick.

No icecream for you

[Vecna]

Hectic is Dr Fire Mario now. That sounds like it's gonna be in the Mario Kart Gacha game soon.

In other news, I decided 7 is a lucky number, and the person 7 spots below me is a guy named Drixx. So imma start there.

VOTE: Drixx

Did you read all 6 pages and decided to RVS or is this a placeholder while you catch up?

Rampage can be my friend this game

[Vecna]

Considering the post before that is my introduction, it is indeed my RVS. Serious Mode will be put on soon.

Write out your detailed thoughts no later than tomorrow night, as you've unfortunately already drawn my attention.

Elaborate? For most it'd be the other way around.

I'm confident I can have a better read on them the longer the game goes on, so I won't even entertain lynching them day 1 at all.

Rampage can be my friend this game

VOTE: Vecna

Why?

Because your alarm bells also went off and you also felt the need to question the "randomizer rvs bit"

Good gut tingles make for good friends

[Vecna]

Hello all you lovely people. So I'm in a hood, and our dear mod declined to give us a roster of who is in there.

I find it unusual that nobody has commented on this post.

I'm in a daychat PT too. There are at least 3 other players in it.

There are 21 players total, 16 town and 5 same-side scum.

Let's make some assumptions.

There are two neighborhoods or more, each with at least 4 players.

Nobody picked up on Drixx's post, because they don't want to out themselves as in his Private Topic or in a PT at all. If people weren't in a hood, they would be more interested in Drixx who claimed he was in one. Nothing in the setup said anything about PTs, except that daychat is active for all of them. So we have to assume everyone is in one.

Now what bothers me is the player count. Why 21 players and not 20? With 20 players, you can have 4-player or 5-player PTs with an even distribution.

21 can only be divided by 7. So are there 3 PTs, with 7 players each? If so, in my PT, 3 players have stayed on the sidelines so far, with 4 including myself announcing our presence, and in another PT, we know of Drixx.

What are possible distributions of scum in the PTs in 3 7-player PTs? 2-2-1, 2-3-0, or 5-0-0. The first one is the most likely (60%), the second one unlikely (30%), and the third option highly improbable (10%).

Therefore, if my assumption is correct that we're all in a PT, and that we all have scum in our PT, it's not safe to post our insights in the PTs as scum have daytalk and can share information, keeping the town out of the loop on content and slowing down scumhunting.

There's another possibility, however:

There could be a masons.

In this case, 21 players could break down like this:
3 masons in their hood
18 players remaining, 3 hoods with 6 players each

So here's what I'm thinking:
1) It's not safe to massclaim our PTs
2) It's safe for someone to claim not to be in a PT, although they might be lying about it and we don't have the means to verify.
3) If you're in a PT, you should announce your presence to the PT participants. Otherwise, you are damaging town cohesion and would therefore most likely be scum.
4) As the game progresses, if we clean out 2 scum from a single PT, it's probable that the remaining are town.

I like the setup analysis, but I'm not sure how I feel about point #4. If everyone or most people are in a PT, the PT selection would probably be random to keep the game somewhat balanced. That said, I'm still doubting that every single person would be in a PT and it would be unmentioned in the game.

If we have a limited number of PTs that don't include all the members, I could see something like 1 scum per PT and the other scum free floating along with some town players.

In that case, it would make sense to at least establish the number of PTs we have, right?

#sawloremode enabled

PT's are likely tied to the movies. Id wager a guess the cops investigating it are definately one. There was a jigsaw infiltrator there. Im sure if people that saw the movies more recently can come up with other shit.

We dont know if the pt's will follow movie lore (or if characters = alignment according to the movies) but it should be deducible further down in the game (and something that shouldnt be forgotten)

[Vecna]

Has anyone in this game played with Morning Tweet before? I'm not really liking the vibes I'm getting from her, but I don't if that's normal.

Post #165 is a clear attempt at budding someone that appears to be a town leader going into the game, but her posts become most problematic when you get to Post #174.

"But what if it's

, like,

one of those doors"

When speaking out loud, people naturally add in filled words such as "like" or "um" to fill space because they are uncomfortable with silence while they are thinking. Making a post with the word "like" as Morning Tweet did here is not natural, it's a deliberate decision. The only possible motivation I can imagine for that decision is to appear more trustworthy/relateable. There's no reason for town to make that decision and for that reason, I VOTE: Morning Tweet.

Already liking Momo

[Vecna]

that doesn't answer my question. What on earth are you talking about??

You believe scum's fake claims are linked with their PT - how come?

Feel like it COULD be a slip as I have no idea where you got this alleged info on the scum PT and flavour claims.

Could also just be speculating that PTs are flavour linked....thus claiming PTs would make fakeclaims easier to pull off succesfully for scum

[Vecna]

I almost wanna say a traitor is a given, but they could surprise us and have just seperated the teams into 2 instead.

4 main scum and a traitor or 3 scum team with a 2 scum team as backup. Or a hardball one that has all 5 together already?

(Fake attempt to?) townslip spotted.

Multiball is confirmed to not be a thing and the numbers are given in the main post

[Vecna]

Youre feeling really weird

[Vecna]

VOTE: Elsa jay

[Vecna]

Still find it weird someone like Dave can overestimate my abilities, but yeah. I just wanted to keep that in everyone's mind, particularly since all the "Jigsaws" never really worked together perfectly, so having them seperate with the same goal made sense to me.

In other news:

VOTE: GuiltyLion so we can get off the Almost wagon. He'll solve himself later.

acceptable

UNVOTE: Elsa jay

[Vecna]

(even though all them guys didnt really have the same goals or motivations, but w/e)

[Vecna]

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

[Vecna]

Why are wagoning battle mage?

I can explain the drixx one - it's cause he thought I posted a legit reads list with myself ranked somewhere in the middle.

See it's interesting ... it's very difficult for scum to avoid taking swipes like this. Dishonest is dishonest though, and you got VOTED by me for doing something else. The fact that you want people to think differently is telling. It's like you want them to overlook the actual thing that made me vote you. You actually read Momo's #184 and then quoted it and decided it was

sound

reasoning to vote for someone.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Vecna gets scum points for trying to help momo sell that bullshit.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Ninja'd me here on my last post but this completely.

And oh look ... momo

ALSO

wants to perpetuate a lie.

I wrote it before momo

Another baddy point for you

[Vecna]

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

[Vecna]

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

And Vecna pulls a KM and pretends to misunderstand and scum read for his failure to understand. I haven't exactly laid down any dissertations yet. Short easy to digest posts. Vecna already got called for helping reinforce the bullshit claim that I voted BM for the reads list, which I already pointed out was a BS misrep and what does Vecna do? He nitpicks a post that I did an EBWOP for because I typed "momo" instead of "Battlemage" and tries to pretend he actually believes I made a temporal order mistake and ... then proceeds to try to sell you all the bullshit claim, again, that my vote came as a result of one thing when it clearly happened in response to something else.

So ... who benefits from obfuscating really clear things in mafia games?

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point. Either too lazy to actually read short posts or scum. There's literally no other possibility space now.

And here comes strike two from Battle Mage. An even worse blank ordered list, and done (again) as a response to someone else doing it first. This is really bad "monkey see/monkey do" play.

I never talked about your vote. I talked about you missing the fact battle mage made a joke and you thought he was making an actual reads list "in response to someone else doing it"

[Vecna]

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

And Vecna pulls a KM and pretends to misunderstand and scum read for his failure to understand. I haven't exactly laid down any dissertations yet. Short easy to digest posts. Vecna already got called for helping reinforce the bullshit claim that I voted BM for the reads list, which I already pointed out was a BS misrep and what does Vecna do? He nitpicks a post that I did an EBWOP for because I typed "momo" instead of "Battlemage" and tries to pretend he actually believes I made a temporal order mistake and ... then proceeds to try to sell you all the bullshit claim, again, that my vote came as a result of one thing when it clearly happened in response to something else.

So ... who benefits from obfuscating really clear things in mafia games?

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point. Either too lazy to actually read short posts or scum. There's literally no other possibility space now.

I'd be down for a Vecna wagon.

So, are you waiting for someone else to do it first?

Permission?

[Vecna]

a simple click on my iso would be enough to form an opinion on the statement davesaz. But clearly farsode feels the need to respond in weird ways when being called out on him being scared to vote me.

[Vecna]

I love all the shade on my day one pushes. Since I changed up how I'm doing day one, I've had a 100% success rate on finding scum on day one. Fite me scum!

How about you respond to my latest reply?

You got caught doing something stupid, then tried to spindoctor your way around it trying to reframe the shit that went down

[Vecna]

GuiltyLion and davesaz could very well be bussing each other. In any case, we should concentrate our votes. Bring me a chair and rope.

Both seem town to me here tbh

[Vecna]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

It's not much but his scumread on me seems off, like he seems like he's not engaging enough for how he's treating me

I could be enticed to vote him but for now I'm good to stay where I am.

Gamma emerald also town

[Vecna]

and yes A50 I confirm I am a lone soldier, not in any hoods.

By my count 4 players have claimed NO HOOD, and the leaders collectively report a total of 14 players IN HOODS. 3 players are either hiding within the hoods or are declining to claim they're not in any.

Those 3 are within momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Hectic/dave/farside. I have removed Pine, Dany & BM as they have declared they were in a hood one way or another. I also dropped George because I liked GL's reasoning for town!him.

So, my preliminary lynch pool as of now is in momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Hectic/dave/farside (but that doesn't factor in how I gut read any of these slots)

Im not in any hood, and in my experience it is rarely +ev for town to publicly claim all this shit when hoods are not universal.

Id make an argument to look into whom are pushing for the mass reveal just in case it later turns out it mightve been relevant, but meh.

(just to elaborate, PR's that have functionality or have abilities triggered/enabled based on hoods etc is what gives me hesitance)

[Vecna]

Spoiler:

By the way im wantes to comment about being fingered by pisskop, but he's like a kid brother and the idea gave me hives.

Trying to brush off all the suspicion with odd humor now are we?

*puts on a monocle and stares*

First thing was this.
Tweet noted herself

Interesting Vecna chooses that kind of wording for farside. She seemed way less invested in the "odd humour" in comparison to the others

Which Venca never follow up with or said anything about.

Considering the post before that is my introduction, it is indeed my RVS. Serious Mode will be put on soon.

Write out your detailed thoughts no later than tomorrow night, as you've unfortunately already drawn my attention.

Elaborate? For most it'd be the other way around.

I'm confident I can have a better read on them the longer the game goes on, so I won't even entertain lynching them day 1 at all.

Rampage can be my friend this game

VOTE: Vecna

Why?

Because your alarm bells also went off and you also felt the need to question the "randomizer rvs bit"

Good gut tingles make for good friends

I don't see anything that elsa post that made this reversal reason a thing at all.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

Now lets link the post that Drixx made a case on BM

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11747901

Did drixx miss it was blank list of players. Yes. Was that drixx full reason for voting BM? No.
So apparently Vecna focuses on the only thing he can attack.

And Vecna pulls a KM and pretends to misunderstand and scum read for his failure to understand. I haven't exactly laid down any dissertations yet. Short easy to digest posts. Vecna already got called for helping reinforce the bullshit claim that I voted BM for the reads list, which I already pointed out was a BS misrep and what does Vecna do? He nitpicks a post that I did an EBWOP for because I typed "momo" instead of "Battlemage" and tries to pretend he actually believes I made a temporal order mistake and ... then proceeds to try to sell you all the bullshit claim, again, that my vote came as a result of one thing when it clearly happened in response to something else.

So ... who benefits from obfuscating really clear things in mafia games?

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point. Either too lazy to actually read short posts or scum. There's literally no other possibility space now.

I'd be down for a Vecna wagon.

So, are you waiting for someone else to do it first?

Permission?

Now I get to the priceless moment. I see more scum motivation of taunting in a post like this. He even ignored that I was voting for someone on a more serious level.

In short weak pushes from him. Taunting, followup with cherry picking comments to make players look scummy and all in all looks to be avoiding the full conversation at hand.

VOTE: Vernca

You did try to brush off suspicion by responding with an awkward joke. I made a mental note of it because awkward responses and trying to sound cool under low ammounts of pressure is a defense I typically typecast for scum. Nowhere near definitive. Didnt respond to tweet because he completely missed the mark on what I meant and didnt feel the need to clarify my thought process yet.

And yes, I was taunting you to see how you'd respond. Pretty over the top and over explanatory.

But youre right, I was cherry picking a few of your posts to shake the proverbial tree. Im not impressed by your responses at all.

Spoilered giant quote wall

[Vecna]

GuiltyLion and davesaz could very well be bussing each other. In any case, we should concentrate our votes. Bring me a chair and rope.

Both seem town to me here tbh

hmmm, why is dave obviously town?

I wouldnt call it obvious yet by any stretch, but he seems to be carelessly putting his thoughts out there, and they have a pretty good overall vibe so far.

[Vecna]

Cherry picking is only scummy if theres intent from scum behind it. Town also always cherry picks shit they think is scummy and prod at it.

[Vecna]

ill admit I mightve missed a bit of the fingering joke context though

[Vecna]

That hat looks wonderful on you, why take it off

How do you feel about Drixx pretending he never whooshed on whatshisname pasting the playerlist and Drixx claiming it was scummy?

[Vecna]

Man I feel like I almost need to make a collage with big arrows and giant font to show how weird that was

[Vecna]

Especially considering how he then made a three paragraph post claiming it was me not understanding what had just happened

[Vecna]

What makes you say that? im posting too much?

[Vecna]

I shall make a mental note about that and try being a good boy next time

[Vecna]

I do sort of agree with A50 that Elsa has had quite the number of moderate small red flags popping up

[Vecna]

Ive only asked you to clarify one thing Drixx:

Did you, or did you not REALIZE that battle mage copied the player list as a joke and represented it as his reads list to mock the person doing it before him.

Because you called it strike two as to why he is scummy.

[Vecna]

I have no read on battle mage outside of that whatsoever. I dont even remember any of the posts he has done. I dont care for your case on him. I dont want to involve myself.

This is all that I care about.

And your mega-over-the-top response to me following that

[Vecna]

And know that if you ignore this again and talk over it, I will instantly day vig you

[Vecna]

"And here comes strike two from Battle Mage. An even worse blank ordered list, and done (again) as a response to someone else doing it first. This is really bad "monkey see/monkey do" play."

You called it Worse and ordered. And as a response to someone else doing it.

The other person did something else entirely, it was a reads list. You saying BAttle mage did an ORDERED LIST implies you thought it also was a reads list.

So why are you freaking out against me?

[Vecna]

It seemed like a clear joke to me, yet you ignored the joke aspect and thought it was scummy because he was copying someone.

If you missed the part that it was a joke, thats fine, just admit that shit and dont blow this crap up like its something big.

[Vecna]

I still dont understand your logic, and I dont see why youre not willing to see how other people found it weird how you worded that point and are so aggressive about it.

[Vecna]

I still dont understand your logic, and I dont see why youre not willing to see how other people found it weird how you worded that point and are so aggressive about it.

So what you're saying is that your motivation here is to try and declare "gotcha!" while ignoring everything else. The ONLY thing you see is that someone apparently missed a joke, and that's all you want to talk about?

Get the fuck outta here.

After your reaction to people calling it out? Yes

[Vecna]

Just to clarify with what I mean with "your reaction"

Spoiler:

Why are wagoning battle mage?

I can explain the drixx one - it's cause he thought I posted a legit reads list with myself ranked somewhere in the middle.

See it's interesting ... it's very difficult for scum to avoid taking swipes like this. Dishonest is dishonest though, and you got VOTED by me for doing something else. The fact that you want people to think differently is telling. It's like you want them to overlook the actual thing that made me vote you. You actually read Momo's #184 and then quoted it and decided it was

sound

reasoning to vote for someone.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Vecna gets scum points for trying to help momo sell that bullshit.

Yeah, Drixx not looking at the front page whether it was just a copy of the playerlist is kinda.....yikes

Ninja'd me here on my last post but this completely.

And oh look ... momo

ALSO

wants to perpetuate a lie.

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

EBWOP: Vecna gets scum points for helping BATTLE MAGE sell his bullshit. Momo was involved but not the direct purveyor of said stinky load. He also tried to sell it to you though. Unless you like carts full of bullshit, maybe you should wonder why those three are trying to sell you one.

What?

Someone posts a readslist.

Battle mage OBVIOUSLY ridicules said person by copying the player list in reaction

You come and try to paint it as scummy what battle mage does, and then attack the people that point out you just did a whoosh?

VOTE: Drixx

And Vecna pulls a KM and pretends to misunderstand and scum read for his failure to understand. I haven't exactly laid down any dissertations yet. Short easy to digest posts. Vecna already got called for helping reinforce the bullshit claim that I voted BM for the reads list, which I already pointed out was a BS misrep and what does Vecna do? He nitpicks a post that I did an EBWOP for because I typed "momo" instead of "Battlemage" and tries to pretend he actually believes I made a temporal order mistake and ... then proceeds to try to sell you all the bullshit claim, again, that my vote came as a result of one thing when it clearly happened in response to something else.

So ... who benefits from obfuscating really clear things in mafia games?

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point. Either too lazy to actually read short posts or scum. There's literally no other possibility space now.

momo's reasoning on morning tweet is weak and battle mage looks bad for jumping on it so quickly

We have a winner! Vecna seems to have succeeded in getting people to ignore it, but my vote went on BM for that bullshit jump on. The comment about the "reads list" was in relation to it being "someone else posted a "reads list" so I'll post a "reads list" too!" play. Monky see/Monky do is bad pretty much always.

Please note that hectic has dodged the fuck out of the game since I asked for his actual reads list to get some explanation. Meanwhile Vecna has been on a crusade to misrep and cherry pick me into looking absurd.

I've seen that playbook in action before.

VOTE: Vecna <--- that can eat rope. Had plenty of chance to re-read simple posts and adjust to reality. At this point has to be intentionally doing it and there's nothing at all useful about play like that. That shit needs to get flushed.


P-Edit: Hood is up to 8 players now.

I still dont understand your logic, and I dont see why youre not willing to see how other people found it weird how you worded that point and are so aggressive about it.

So what you're saying is that your motivation here is to try and declare "gotcha!" while ignoring everything else. The ONLY thing you see is that someone apparently missed a joke, and that's all you want to talk about?

Get the fuck outta here.

That is a bit excessive of a response for when people are commenting that you missed an obvious joke and read scummy motivation in it, no?

Regardless of whether the rest of your case is awesome or crap. Wouldnt you respond if someone brought out the big guns like that after a simple comment?

[Vecna]

Hmmm, bad feeling even though EJ feels scummy

[Vecna]

The only thing stopping me from instantly voting Vecna is that, surely scum!him would hold himself back a little bit?

why does he do the things he does?! it's not helping him to say he likes the momo case without voting, or to double down on defending BM from Drixx for shaky reasons

I never said I liked (as in agree with) the momo case, I said I liked momo as in I thought the post itself made him town

[Vecna]

His voting record and justification is off.

How is my justification on Drixx off?

Or are you talking about Elsa jay?

[Vecna]

Sorry for the awful inactivity, should have called a V/LA for yesterday.

For now, I think a good wagon is

VOTE: Vecna

I think his push on Drixx is opportunistic in nature. Like:

It seemed like a clear joke to me, yet you ignored the joke aspect and thought it was scummy because he was copying someone.

If you missed the part that it was a joke, thats fine, just admit that shit and dont blow this crap up like its something big.

Yeah, that's what happened. Why is this more likely to come from Scum than Town? That's also not the only reason Drixx was pushing BM, so why is that one of the only things you're bringing up?

(I'm also townreading most of the people on the current Vecna wagon, so it's the most trustworthy to me)

Im pushing him because he lied and lashed out really explosively for being pointed as as being wrong darling.

Did you even read his reactions and how they mischaracterized everything?

[Vecna]

George, dont just put in that brief explenation and then vanish again. Im here to talk to you, and im really not used to you putting in one big post as opposed to continued communication.

[Vecna]

Vecna i'm still trying to catch up, I haven't vanished.

Yes, I saw his reaction. But I still think your push on him is off. It seems like you're making his comment on the readslist more substantial to his read than it is. I don't think it comes from a town mindset.

I never talked about the read whatsoever. I talked about him missing the joke. He went ballistic on me and tried to make it look like something I was not doing.

[Vecna]

Im pushing him because he lied and lashed out really explosively for being pointed as as being wrong darling.

Vecna, why do you think Scum would act this way?

I never actually called him scum (I think). I wanted him to clarify why he went off on me.

Maybe he and some people misunderstood my intention. Maybe thats why he went all cookoo. If someonw would blow up on you after you point out an error, would you not pursue that?

[Vecna]

Also, if people actually care about the wagon and Drixx' logic so much, why are you all focusing so much on me?

Seems like a mighty strange way to go about it if you feel that Drixx was on point and caught scum there.

[Vecna]

It's not acceptable to attack someone IRL Vecna. It's especially bad to refer to them as "cuckoo". Cut that shit out.

Describing your reaction to me as "going cookoo" has nothing to do with your IRL.

to throw in some more buzzwords, why all the misrep boo?

[Vecna]

Votecount 1.6

Elsa Jay (5) - pisskop, Almost50, iDanyboy, farside22, davesaz
GuiltyLion (3) - Elsa Jay, Albert B. Rampage, Gamma Emerald
iDanyboy (3) - Battle Mage, momo, BBmolla
Vecna (3) - GuiltyLion, Drixx, Hectic
farside22 (2) - xtoxm, GeorgeBailey
Drixx (2) - Vecna, Blake Belladonna
Battle Mage (1) - Morning Tweet

Not voting (2) - Pine, VaultDweller

(expired on 2020-05-01 15:10:00) remain until day end

With 21 players alive, it takes 11 to reach a majority.

"Most people are so ungrateful to be alive, but not you, not any more..."

@MOD - a few of these VCs have me voting Vecna when I was actually voting danyBoy, can you fix? Thanks

I kinda like Dany's re-entry back into the thread. I'm not feeling scum there as much, also given A50's explanation of his post.

I also think both Vecna and Elsa Jay are town.

@MorningTweet - honestly, I went back and reread BM's ISO and I can't really justify why I had him so hard town earlier. I think it was because we mindmelded on the first reply to George's push on farside, and then the danyBoy suspicion. But when I read it altogether and look at how he's defending himself against various pressure, I can imagine it being scum.

VOTE: BattleMage

some other slots I'm still not feeling town are Rampage and davesaz

lol this is probably a bit weird, but this post makes me happy.

For some unexplainable reason in my head I want this goofy lion to be my friend and I was all sad he was voting for me

[Vecna]

Anyways, maybe im just being distracted by the wrong thing here.

@Drixx; this is my reasoning. As town id expect you to try and at least get me to respond to your actual case and discuss that with me. Easy enough to try and move past the one detail that was flawed. In hindsight, in your later posts there was some of that and im actually going to try and engage with that now.

However, this whole interaction has given me a whiff of what might also be going on: Namely, you as scum being aware you just got slapped on the finger for actual good reasoning, and you wanting to obfuscate and distract from that because you give more weight to my little gotcha than it ever should have. Noone cared about it, but you did quite a bit. Now, maybe this was just because youre town and we missed eachothers meanings.....but you keep on going with making things worse for some reason. I dont get it why you would as town?

[Vecna]

Well I went back over your first argument drixx, and I see where youre coming from.

I must admit I did a very surface level pass on Momo's post and ill agree with you the contents are actually laughable, especially since the "like" referenced was in a roleplaying post (and my comment stating liking Momo for town based on that post was crap). oops

To add some more thoughts; I dont know if scum actually do come up with a line of attack like that or if its just town trying to be a smartass and copy some out there theory they saw before that makes no sense.

Whether that makes battle mage scum for sheeping and voting on tweet straight away? Could be, but im not very convinced that is the case, since clearly I also just flew right over that post.

I should probably go and form my own opinion on this shit

[Vecna]

only kidding. I thought you kissing ABR's bum, and then conspicuously failing to engage with anything he said, was scummy.

I can definitely also buy this though

[Vecna]

Final verdict: Fluffy but unapologetic at times. I dont really see how people have very strong opinions on the BM slot one way or the other at this time.

[Vecna]

Im pushing him because he lied and lashed out really explosively for being pointed as as being wrong darling.

Vecna, why do you think Scum would act this way?

I never actually called him scum (I think). I wanted him to clarify why he went off on me.

Maybe he and some people misunderstood my intention. Maybe thats why he went all cookoo. If someonw would blow up on you after you point out an error, would you not pursue that?

I was talking about your in-game action (your response to me) being cookoo. It was just meant as a cute sounding way to say you were overreacting.

I did not mean any personal attacks. I do not know you in real life. I have no intentions to insult you as a person in any way. I do not think youre actually crazy, because you sound pretty driven by reason.

Can we leave this behind?

[Vecna]

coukd i ask you for some words on your townreads on george, a50 amd BBmolla?

Likewise the scumread on dave?

overall my thoughts are quite similar

[Vecna]

It's funny nor one person -other than EJ himself- commented on my referencing him saying almost the same thing in another game where he was scum. I get that scum don't want to deal with that one way or another (if he is scum it's best if they let it die, and if he is town then either town pushes through the mislynch or scum use it later to mislynch me). Now why did no TOWN player talk about that?

I checked more into ej as a player and i feel very unsure since they are very monotone playstyle.
So far all i get is a lot of meh.

Wagon bores me for now on EJ.
Next on my scum list.
VOTE: BM
Drixx would be second strongest scum read.

So you scumread BM but drixx is your 2nd strongest scumread?

So you either think drixx is hardcore bussing as his only read, or this proves youre really not reading the game at all?

Which is it

[Vecna]

Also my hood has died basically. Nobody in there seems motivated to talk at all.

When someone questioned the die off, another someone told them to scum hunt in the main thread.

Of those two responses to the hood going dry ... I feel like the "don't use it, just scum hunt in the main thread" response is maybe questionable. Thoughts?

Depends entirely on personality as well. If its a strong scum player, I dont think theyd ever want to encourage people to not use the hood since theyd love to manipulate people in it.

On average id say the "hunt in thread" comment comes from town more often, but is pretty nai if the thread is dead anyway

[Vecna]

Thanks for the explanations btw GL, I think ill sheep your opinion on BBmolla and George, and will probably need to trust other people to read A50 properly for me.

Not sure if I completely agree with your reasoning on Davesaz, but I can see where youre coming from and you might have it nailed.

[Vecna]

"Monotone"? What does that mean farside?

You don't read as a passionate player like others. I saw lots of one liners from you, very relaxed kind of play. I did catch something that I think it is a scum tell, but I'd rather not say unless I see it.

farside - why am I your 2nd strongest scum read?

I read your reaction to venca as fake. The association you put in there reads as over the top and invalid.

It's funny nor one person -other than EJ himself- commented on my referencing him saying almost the same thing in another game where he was scum. I get that scum don't want to deal with that one way or another (if he is scum it's best if they let it die, and if he is town then either town pushes through the mislynch or scum use it later to mislynch me). Now why did no TOWN player talk about that?

I checked more into ej as a player and i feel very unsure since they are very monotone playstyle.
So far all i get is a lot of meh.

Wagon bores me for now on EJ.
Next on my scum list.
VOTE: BM
Drixx would be second strongest scum read.

So you scumread BM but drixx is your 2nd strongest scumread?

So you either think drixx is hardcore bussing as his only read, or this proves youre really not reading the game at all?

Which is it

I read them as individually scummy. That said I can't even begin to tell you the times I have seen a play push there scum buddy as a lynch and then teeter off of it.
Serious question. Do you really see Drixx pushing BM as hard as he is pushing you as a scum read?

Thank you for your reply. Well reasoned

[Vecna]

So you scumread BM but drixx is your 2nd strongest scumread?

So you either think drixx is hardcore bussing as his only read, or this proves youre really not reading the game at all?

oof

This is too good to want dead today.

Dunno, the quoted post feels like a possible gotcha type play from scum. The question includes a false dichotomy given two scumreads don't have to be scum together.
Maybe you're right about the "today" part though.

Dave continues to be critical and calling out shit as he sees it.

[Vecna]

Was that sarcasm?

I get why you'd think that since I dont usually respond like that, but it wasnt

[Vecna]

And I agree with the sentiment that Drixx seems to have given up the BM wagon quite easily and preferred to focus on me.

We both focused on the same thing (the c/p of playerlist) but Drixx then engaged with me instead of BM over that and continued to push me instead (why me and not momo/bm?)

I hadn't looked at it from the angle of the initial scrutiny potentially being early distancing

[Vecna]

I played a game with him recently where he did just that, he was lynched and turned out to be town.

Link?

Is this you really claiming you've never seen pine lurk as town?

how quaint

[Vecna]

Hey guys, fuck off of me. I don't really play D1, and it's a shitty reason to suspect them. This isn't 2012 where LAL is all the rage. I have a consistent track record of being godawful shit when I tryhard D1, and a much better track record when I skip it and wait for the initial dumbfuckery to die down. I can provide numerous examples of this meta if need be.

Because Cakez is insisting that I provide content instead of just proddodging through D1, I will skim the last 5-10 pages and find a decent vote to put down.

This is a complete and utter fabrication btw.

Last time I saw Pine try he had the game nearly solved day1 in his hood

[Vecna]

Besides GuiltyLion, I don't find anyone SUPER SCUMMY right now. I have some townreads...and that's it. If we have to compromise and lynch a player we all feel neutral towards, like Pine, it's better than no lynch or dragging a day to the point everyone is bored and annoyed and wants to quit. So I'm voting GuiltyLion, if that doesn't work, I'm OK to vote out Pine if he doesn't do anything, because I legit don't know who has a high possibility of flipping scum here. Maybe Vecna?

@Vecna

Keep in mind I haven't played in 3+ years. I don't remember much about previous games.

I don't agree with gl or venca reads. Id go danny, his response does not give me warm fuzzies, drixx, bm, george, davez or xtoxm.
I have a few null reads but its too early for this kind of attitude

IDanny had those two posts that barely ever come from scum.

Imo, scum dont think along the lines of talking about hood flavour matching their future fakeclaims and already start preparing town to play to oppose that. Like a true mastermind might have made a plan to abuse that and flip the logic, but iDanny doesnt really strike me as the RC type of player.

This just appeared to me as genuine town logic and everyone interpreted it completely wrong.

[Vecna]

A50 and MT also posting elsewhere on site.

Good for you to notice. Did you also notice I posted in here less than two hours before your post??

Regardless of him missing that, I think actually going to look up players and venting about it is usually town indicative

[Vecna]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80685

this was the game I was talking about Pine. You should probably just take it as a compliment if youre town buddy. You had some pretty good reads d1 already and got nkd n2

[Vecna]

I feel sympathy towards Vecna this game, the way people have been reading his slot looks eerily similar to the games where I get heavily scumread as town.

Huh? I have the feeling im pretty widely townread?

People come to my aid in droves whenever someone as much as dares to say something bad towards me.

Its kind of creepy tbh.

Im pretty sure this is yet another one of those games where I die N1

[Vecna]

I've seen Vecna as scum, and been scum trying to frame him. I think this might be our first T+T game I can remember, and I'm kind of excited for it.

I still want you to call me a plebeian

/socket successful (but who pockets who *eery sound*)

[Vecna]

I got a townread on Pine out of the last few pages

a few people are asking about BM case - I feel his engagement with a lot of early game content was super light and perhaps it's due to his V/LA but he seemed to stop being involved as soon as the actual game picked up - this is a patten I see from scum often. At the time of me voting him I believed two of the other main bandwagons (Vecna and myself) were bad wagons, and I had just re-evaluated on danyBoy (the other, other wagon, which I had been pushing), so the BM votes felt to me like the best chance to follow along and find scum.

Funny enough Drixx is one of those slots for me that he was referring to as "you don't like going down that road unless you're sure", I def agree he's been overdramatic and making things more about himself than they actually are or need to be, but that's my experience of how he plays regardless of alignment, and I don't know if anything I've seen has felt like it moved the needle on him being more likely to be scum. It does feel weird that he's avoiding the BM wagon especially after I reversed my read on him, but I almost feel scum!Drixx would see it as easy to hop onto a town!BM by this point and not take that route, so either they're scum together or Drixx is townie for that.

MT bleeding town for me by this point. I'd also join a davesaz wagon.
p-edit: let's do it

VOTE: davesaz

Lion, youre a champ at putting quite a few of my feelings into words.

Im really waffling on Drixx. On the one hand, his response to me was very surface level bad. But Drixx is not a surface level player, and I could also see town act frustrated when others only react to the part of your wagon that did have a hole in it and ignore the rest (the rest that was pretty small though). If he really felt we were torpedoing his questioning of BM, then why not just tell us to fuck off and continue it? Portraying me as scummy instead and going on that crusade is still a bit weird. Its also how I caught his hydra in civ Mafia, although there his reaction was a lot more aggressive and over the top still.

Dave for me feels different, like (dont get triggered momo), every game I play with him these days. So different from 1-2+ years ago. I really do not think I can read him at all.

Xtomx is also really going down-down-down on my readslist. I thought this was gonna be a game where I could townread him, but there really was zero followup with substance.

[Vecna]

A50 and MT also posting elsewhere on site.

Good for you to notice. Did you also notice I posted in here less than two hours before your post??

Regardless of him missing that, I think actually going to look up players and venting about it is usually town indicative

this post is a perfect example of why Vecna is town btw

scum almost never has incentive to post this, especially cause I don't think he's really needed to buddy up to ABR

I think I agree with it, it's not impossible that scum!ABR does that but I do also think that's a decent indicator of town and it's making me less confident of an ABR scumread

ABR and I have a little history (the type of history drixx was talking about) and id fully expect him to want me dead in any game regardless of alignment.

I really dont feel like picking a fight with him, and I really do not trust my ability to read his slot

[Vecna]

Sigh.

I'm not saying don't wagon him. I'm saying to be careful about it. He has a history of reacting very poorly to pressure like this and I expect it to escalate with somebody like Albert B. Rampage at the helm.

I've fallen into that same trap multiple times in the past and it has yet to go in a positive direction for town.

Blake is such a towny motherfucker

[Vecna]

I can already tell you won't listen to my warning.

Very well, I will watch from afar.

I don't get it, are you saying there are certain players that can't be wagoned because of how they'll react? Or were we going about it in a toxic way?

pedit: I suppose.

Cross my heart I swear the same farside, Morning Tweet, girl scout's honor?

sure

VOTE: dave

let's be on our best behaviour!

What he's obviously trying to say is.....dave will act poorly under pressure, resulting in a wagon that gathers steam on the slot to nearly become a self-fullfilling prophecy with very high chances of resulting in dave's lynch.

tldr: poor response, even more "lol u mad" votes -> lynch

[Vecna]

VOTE: BBmolla

[Vecna]

lol, that was a proper one

[Vecna]

I just hate the other wagons

I don’t really have any strong scumreads at the moment so I’m throwing my vote at the wall and seeing what sticks

about sums it up I guess

[Vecna]

I got a townread on Pine out of the last few pages

a few people are asking about BM case - I feel his engagement with a lot of early game content was super light and perhaps it's due to his V/LA but he seemed to stop being involved as soon as the actual game picked up - this is a patten I see from scum often. At the time of me voting him I believed two of the other main bandwagons (Vecna and myself) were bad wagons, and I had just re-evaluated on danyBoy (the other, other wagon, which I had been pushing), so the BM votes felt to me like the best chance to follow along and find scum.

Funny enough Drixx is one of those slots for me that he was referring to as "you don't like going down that road unless you're sure", I def agree he's been overdramatic and making things more about himself than they actually are or need to be, but that's my experience of how he plays regardless of alignment, and I don't know if anything I've seen has felt like it moved the needle on him being more likely to be scum. It does feel weird that he's avoiding the BM wagon especially after I reversed my read on him, but I almost feel scum!Drixx would see it as easy to hop onto a town!BM by this point and not take that route, so either they're scum together or Drixx is townie for that.

MT bleeding town for me by this point. I'd also join a davesaz wagon.
p-edit: let's do it

VOTE: davesaz

Lion, youre a champ at putting quite a few of my feelings into words.

Im really waffling on Drixx. On the one hand, his response to me was very surface level bad. But Drixx is not a surface level player, and I could also see town act frustrated when others only react to the part of your wagon that did have a hole in it and ignore the rest (the rest that was pretty small though). If he really felt we were torpedoing his questioning of BM, then why not just tell us to fuck off and continue it? Portraying me as scummy instead and going on that crusade is still a bit weird. Its also how I caught his hydra in civ Mafia, although there his reaction was a lot more aggressive and over the top still.

Dave for me feels different, like (dont get triggered momo), every game I play with him these days. So different from 1-2+ years ago. I really do not think I can read him at all.

Xtomx is also really going down-down-down on my readslist. I thought this was gonna be a game where I could townread him, but there really was zero followup with substance.

Just nit picking here but... didn't I play solo in Civ mafia, and only for like ... part of day one? My brain says that I went into that game coming off SU2, and I got put onto a scum team with Mastina, which I tried to make work but given how the end of SU2 went, I felt like it was bad for me to stay in the game. So I replaced out.

So umm... maybe link me what you're talking about?

It was the day1a discussion about what wonder to build for the game

[Vecna]

What he's obviously trying to say is.....dave will act poorly under pressure, resulting in a wagon that gathers steam on the slot to nearly become a self-fullfilling prophecy with very high chances of resulting in dave's lynch.

tldr: poor response, even more "lol u mad" votes -> lynch

That makes sense, but my problem with it is like, what happens when we scumread dave-- how are we supposed to lynch him then?

am i hiding in the background?

I think so

(´-ω-`)

pedit: I can agree with u on that at least, idk how people came up with an alignment for him already

He just said to be careful and not misinterpret overreactions from the slot.

Proceed however you like

[Vecna]

I got a townread on Pine out of the last few pages

a few people are asking about BM case - I feel his engagement with a lot of early game content was super light and perhaps it's due to his V/LA but he seemed to stop being involved as soon as the actual game picked up - this is a patten I see from scum often. At the time of me voting him I believed two of the other main bandwagons (Vecna and myself) were bad wagons, and I had just re-evaluated on danyBoy (the other, other wagon, which I had been pushing), so the BM votes felt to me like the best chance to follow along and find scum.

Funny enough Drixx is one of those slots for me that he was referring to as "you don't like going down that road unless you're sure", I def agree he's been overdramatic and making things more about himself than they actually are or need to be, but that's my experience of how he plays regardless of alignment, and I don't know if anything I've seen has felt like it moved the needle on him being more likely to be scum. It does feel weird that he's avoiding the BM wagon especially after I reversed my read on him, but I almost feel scum!Drixx would see it as easy to hop onto a town!BM by this point and not take that route, so either they're scum together or Drixx is townie for that.

MT bleeding town for me by this point. I'd also join a davesaz wagon.
p-edit: let's do it

VOTE: davesaz

Lion, youre a champ at putting quite a few of my feelings into words.

Im really waffling on Drixx. On the one hand, his response to me was very surface level bad. But Drixx is not a surface level player, and I could also see town act frustrated when others only react to the part of your wagon that did have a hole in it and ignore the rest (the rest that was pretty small though). If he really felt we were torpedoing his questioning of BM, then why not just tell us to fuck off and continue it? Portraying me as scummy instead and going on that crusade is still a bit weird. Its also how I caught his hydra in civ Mafia, although there his reaction was a lot more aggressive and over the top still.

Dave for me feels different, like (dont get triggered momo), every game I play with him these days. So different from 1-2+ years ago. I really do not think I can read him at all.

Xtomx is also really going down-down-down on my readslist. I thought this was gonna be a game where I could townread him, but there really was zero followup with substance.

Just nit picking here but... didn't I play solo in Civ mafia, and only for like ... part of day one? My brain says that I went into that game coming off SU2, and I got put onto a scum team with Mastina, which I tried to make work but given how the end of SU2 went, I felt like it was bad for me to stay in the game. So I replaced out.

So umm... maybe link me what you're talking about?

It was the day1a discussion about what wonder to build for the game

I mean ... I replaced out super early and my slot never got lynched. I guess you hang your hat where you can but if you 'caught' me, why didn't you get me lynched?

You should ask that to abr

[Vecna]

Also, I like Pine here, but im definitely not townreading pine like some of you.

[Vecna]

Yeah, I have no problems with the drixx wagon dying at this point

[Vecna]

We aren't announcing the reasons because we want to see who is town enough to see what we saw. The case is there. Watch the red flag. We talked about it indirectly. Hectic is waving the red flag more fanatically than communists at a workers day parade with their lives on the line if they don't show enough enthusiasm.

And im guessing your next step is quizzing the people that voted on these "obvious signals" right?

Im just like, asking on behalf of us clueless townies that missed the obvious signals

[Vecna]

Hmmm, the announcement of the hydra heads has made my townread dissolve

poof

[Vecna]

oh lord, BM is openly scumclaiming

[Vecna]

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Vecna]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

Hot take: All three scum truthtelling in early circlejerk

[Vecna]

(the above was in response to BM voting Blake belladonna twice)

[Vecna]

Hectic, BM, Blake Belladonna, maybe GE (4/5)?

[Vecna]

Im not sure about Hectic, but Battle mage is doing a thing here where he either wants to distract from the Hectic wagon, or wants to create two alternating wagons between momo and Hectic to set up the day2 mislynch.

[Vecna]

Hectic, BM, Blake Belladonna, maybe GE (4/5)?

wow this is a really bad scumlist

Interesting how of all the "bad readslists" in the game, this is the only one you choose to respond to

[Vecna]

Hectic, BM, Blake Belladonna, maybe GE (4/5)?

wow this is a really bad scumlist

Interesting how of all the "bad readslists" in the game, this is the only one you choose to respond to

Why is that interesting

Because clearly my reads are so bad that they merit special attention

[Vecna]

Vote: Blake Belladonna

Vote: Blake Belladonna

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

Now tell me that this does not look a bit funny in hindsight.

Why of all posts does Gamma pick up on BM voting for Blake belladonna, and calls it scum fake RVSing their partner?

Now tell me this scenario does not overlap at least conveniently with your PoE pools

And then debate with me whether these lines dont come from scum trying to get too cute in an overwhelming (read statistically significant if so inclined to avoid sensationalism) number of cases.

BM/BB as potential baddies together? GE as a teammate or a towny having a good gut sensation? Lets explore this further

What does this mean for hectic and Momo?

Thoughts whether if im accurate that BM is saving Hectic here, or just setting up for a 1v1 to set up the next mislynch?

[Vecna]

GL and Drixx, id like you to look into this.

[Vecna]

I can see a world where Momo is town and I can see a world where Hectic is scum but I'm feeling Momo over Hectic unless ABR has an especially compelling point on something I'm not seeing

Stay active, we will need you to finish off Hectic as the clock ticks to midnight.

Still 4 days left my man. I get it, we dont have forever, but using this already as an argument to push through the current biggest wagons......probably lines up well with what you want, but its not the greatest of reasons that should convince anyone else.

[Vecna]

Vote: Blake Belladonna

Vote: Blake Belladonna

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

Now tell me that this does not look a bit funny in hindsight.

Why of all posts does Gamma pick up on BM voting for Blake belladonna, and calls it scum fake RVSing their partner?

Now tell me this scenario does not overlap at least conveniently with your PoE pools

And then debate with me whether these lines dont come from scum trying to get too cute in an overwhelming (read statistically significant if so inclined to avoid sensationalism) number of cases.

BM/BB as potential baddies together? GE as a teammate or a towny having a good gut sensation? Lets explore this further

What does this mean for hectic and Momo?

Thoughts whether if im accurate that BM is saving Hectic here, or just setting up for a 1v1 to set up the next mislynch?

You are overanalyzing this. I agree now that I look at this again that post 34 is strange, but it is strange in the way that it's simply an awkward scum entrance.

It's common for scum to struggle to get into a game, so they latch onto the first thing that looks remotely interesting to them in am awkward way. I don't find it likely that Battle Mage is scum in the first place, but this call out especially is a SvT associative for if Gamma Emerald ever flips scum.

You cannot possibly convince me you really thing that GE as scum is thinking that far ahead is that conniving, and hopes for it to work.

These types of posts comes from scum being overly cute, or town thinking people are bussing. I see no real indication why a town GE would think that in that situation, because making an error in the vote is something that you only notice and pay heed to if your teammate is doing it.

[Vecna]

It's moot now. I think momo/vecna/blake makes sense.

Yes, im hard defending momo in public and openly trying to push the wagon onto blake instead. scum all-star right here

Big brainy boy

[Vecna]

The wagon on me has built ridiculously fast and is almost certainly scum driven. How fast I went from being widely townleaned/read is not natural. Hectic points out that he's been crumbing cop the whole game, but it's absolutely the fakest crumbing I've seen in a while. Scum can call themselves detective in their posts too.

It's clear that y'all aren't believing me, so I've decided to claim.

I am Simone, a 1-shot Trap Immune Survivor.

I was hoping that I wouldn't have to claim, so that scum could waste one of their traps on me, but it is what it is. Lynching me rn is not smart because scum can't get rid of me when they want to. My role adds value to this town.

oh. Well I guess this makes me look pretty stupid.

[Vecna]

wait what
isnt this game confirmed no 3ps

yup

[Vecna]

wait what
isnt this game confirmed no 3ps

It's not a 3rd party role.

It's a town role. Survivor is just the name of our PT. Being 1-shot trap immune is my role.

oh

[Vecna]

At least this hood explanation & hunt makes BM's weird actions a bit more understandable

[Vecna]

Well, at least were not losing any strong PR's by lynching Momo. Unless Hectic is town (his indignity to having to claim reads off the charts genuine) and is allowed to get a shot off on Momo, the odds of him ever being targetted by a NK are zero now.

[Vecna]

Momo, why word it so confusingly and not clarify that in the first post? Also, kindly explain what a fucking Trap is. Is that the gimmick here? Are we dealing with a team of Poisoners?

the more I think about this the more this is a super scummy post regardless of Momo's alignment, btw

I actually don't think I want to assume "there must be a scum in the hood" regarding the Survivor group, if momo townflips I don't think that has to point to scum in the other three. It's good to consider but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true.

I mean, the movies strongly imply that there is an acolyte in the survivors. Ofcourse, that is also the best way for a sadistic mod like cakez ( ) to create some awesome drama in this game.

ANYWAYS

Anyone could also figure out that the survivor PT is most likely to contain the strongest town PR's.

I WANT TO KNOW

_WHO_

In that PT started the witchhunt and instigated the others to join them.

Because -that- is the most likely scumslot in there.

[Vecna]

Also, odds of Momo being a traitor and outing to his teammates who are in there as a means to signal to kill them at night?

hmmm

[Vecna]

Momo?

Momo, why word it so confusingly and not clarify that in the first post? Also, kindly explain what a fucking Trap is. Is that the gimmick here? Are we dealing with a team of Poisoners?

the more I think about this the more this is a super scummy post regardless of Momo's alignment, btw

I actually don't think I want to assume "there must be a scum in the hood" regarding the Survivor group, if momo townflips I don't think that has to point to scum in the other three. It's good to consider but I'm not convinced it's necessarily true.

I mean, the movies strongly imply that there is an acolyte in the survivors. Ofcourse, that is also the best way for a sadistic mod like cakez ( ) to create some awesome drama in this game.

ANYWAYS

Anyone could also figure out that the survivor PT is most likely to contain the strongest town PR's.

I WANT TO KNOW

_WHO_

In that PT started the witchhunt and instigated the others to join them.

Because -that- is the most likely scumslot in there.

[Vecna]

So noone in there started a hunt of sorts to figure out which of the people in your hood were scum? And was pushing the rest to hunt scum in your hood?

[Vecna]

It's moot now. I think momo/vecna/blake makes sense.

Yes, im hard defending momo in public and openly trying to push the wagon onto blake instead. scum all-star right here

Big brainy boy

If you think Hectic will be lynched, why not act as you did? You would think it's safe.

Because all this happened after the momentum had firmly shifted towards momo

[Vecna]

Well that was a very bloody night. Seems this game couldve also had a lot of townclears judging from those flips.

Which makes me wonder if those traps/games are initiated by scum to potentially get additional kills every night?

Even though ABR has been on point so far, id like to see his reasoning for removing a whole total of 10 people from the lynch list - since it seems everyone is sheeping that and just focusing on those 7. Which has the risk of leaving major blind spots.

Anyways im already softing here that I have more information thatll help us solve, but I think it smart to hold on to it for a little while longer

[Vecna]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Vecna]

Why did this game suddenly die down

[Vecna]

I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.

Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....

[Vecna]

I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum

Yes, im also surprised. When I came back and saw the thread locked I was puzzled that it had gone down so fast.

Not worried though, since my info is also released on my death. So it wouldve been quite ok if I was nightkilled only for my info to still be released.

[Vecna]

I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum

I thought we had lost that information forever too

I figured scum has a list where they put individuals they want in traps at the top, and they can update the list throughout the day. Would have to check the wagons again to see if that has anything to do with it though

So if you guys were worried about that, why didnt you stop that bloody speedwagon lol

[Vecna]

Farside shot A50 using her role though

Flavour seems to indicate she made a choice to influence the outcome of A50's game and was killed as punishment?

The flavour heavily seems to imply "play your own game, accept the damage you get, dont mess with other games outcomes, survive"

Speculation. Might be wrong.

[Vecna]

To clarify: Almost50's gun death was mechanically disconnected from the Game that killed farside22. I just combined them in flavor for dramatic effect.
I apologize for the confusion.

oh ok

[Vecna]

Battle Mage's Setup Theory

4 person survivor hood - includes 2 scum (Momo and ABR)
3 person FBI hood - NO SCUM
8 person (Cop?) hood - Likely only 1 scum, outside chance of 2.
No hood - Likely 2 scum, outside chance of 1.

I'll case ABR properly later, but wanted to set out my theory on the setup first. Reason for this is partly flavour (I spent the night phase reading up on all the Saw flavour!) and partly what I think the Mod would do to balance the game whilst making it consistent with the flavour.

Assumption:

Flavour consistency is very important to the Mod. So far, everyone in hoods, has conformed to the flavour of that hood. This INCLUDES SCUM. Momo had a fakeclaim of a town survivor, but his actual scum character was a survivor in the movies.

One of the premier baddies in Saw is a character called Amanda Young. She was also, notably, a Jigsaw Survivor. My hypothesis is that ABR is Amanda Young, and therefore my hood contained 2 scum originally.

There was only 1 cop who was a baddy in the franchise, Det Mark Hoffman. So he is presumably in the 8-person hood.

John Kramer (Jigsaw) would be outside of any hood. And the remaining scum, I theorise, is most likely to be Lawrence Gordon, who was a doctor, and wouldn't fit in any of the hoods either.

From a gameplay perspective, unbalanced number of scum in the hoods makes sense (to give false positives in the small hood, and everyone chasing shadows in the big hood with only 1 scum). Hoods with the right proportions of scum would be too town heavy, especially with the amount of PRs. Plus it's Saw, so the point is the game is meant to screw with you.

In the game that means:

ABR is scum.
There is 2 scum within: Pisskop, BBmola, Vecna and GuiltyLion
Blake and MorningTweet are town.
There is only 1 scum in big hood, which I still think is Danyboy (especially if ABR is scum, as he loves Danyboy). But we shouldn't be hitting here yet as we have lower mathematical odds of success.

Wasnt there a second corrupt cop in that last saw movie? Not sure if it was JIGSAW or SAW6, but Iirc there was another turncoat in a police department.

Also, I have strong suspicions on blake, and a very strong townread on GuiltyLion, and I doubt itd be as simple as Pisskop + BBmolla (even though I think BBmolla is definately scum)

[Vecna]

relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it

Well in my defence, Day 1 was based on my own independent scum-read of Momo. Day 2 was based on my interpretation of what ABR told me, which was (as revealed)

at least

partially untrue.

Would scum ABR really focus on hunting scum in his own neighbourhood if 50% there is scum though?

[Vecna]

As for my reveal, my role is literally that im someone's son. Apparently ive disappeared, ran away from home or something, and my dad is most likely being a badass and searching for me. Not sure if that role flavour has any relation to game mechanics or if its just fluff, but I bet its probably reflected in my dads PM in some way.

I know that Vaultdweller is my dad. His name is Eric Matthews, and my role pm confirms him as town to me. It also states he does not know my identity.

I wanted to keep this hidden for as long as possible, especially after it appeared Vaultdweller was taking the lurking approach and was unlikely to be killed early. I figured if I were to die, my role pm would still make him an IC (confirmed by mod in pm). If both of us were to survive to endgame it would significantly increase our chances of winning.

I know this might not townclear me in any way, but it should at least inform your decisions going forward.

I wanted to claim it yesterday after all the trap stuff and people killing eachother left and right to avoid someone accidentally killing a town IC, but then the day was suddenly over.

[Vecna]

Well we already know Xtoxm's claim actually since he sent it to me via pm last night.

Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?

She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.

You've got my support but I think both should claim today.

VOTE: xtoxm

Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

You say you feel extremely "betrayed" by the xtoxm wagon?

[Vecna]

I believe his words were "I lead you into my hectic trap"

[Vecna]

Also, his whole "hectic was a ruse to see who would hop on, it was my own trap" felt very odd, but it does make sense in a scum that was forced to bus his teammate kind of way.

Ive clearly already started confbiassing

[Vecna]

Wut? the thread was locked after xtoxm was mislynched

what words are you talking about

[Vecna]

VOTE: ABR

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: ABR

I dont really like those townreads. Can you explain Drixx and Blake? Are you really gonna read the entire game on your possible flavoursolve? Because that seems like a really bad way to go about this

A simpler list for today

Probable Town

(Unlikely any scum in here at all)
Morning Tweet
Blake Belladonna
Drixx
VaultDweller
Vecna

Neutral

(only 1 scum here if Dany is town, 0 if Dany is scum)
davesaz
GeorgeBailey
Gamma Emerald

Possible scum

(only 1 scum here, unless BBmolla is town)
GuiltyLion
pisskop

Probable Scum

(prime lynches for tomorrow)
iDanyboy
BBmolla

Definitely Scum

(Lynch for today)
Albert B. Rampage

[Vecna]

VOTE: ABR

This can actually remain I guess

[Vecna]

Other flavour-solves are possible though BM.

And the way pisskop just went straight against you without even arguing your case should already highlight youre quite possibly wrong somewhere in the rest of the solve

[Vecna]

wait, actually guess that still fits.

hmmm

(also, im getting this odd feeling that ABR is just trying to distance here from Blake. When BBmolla pointed at my reads earlier and called them very bad, I had a really strong suspicious already it was scum calling it out because they were very wrong but one of the conclusions was still correct)

[Vecna]

pisskop's tone suddenly changed completely

[Vecna]

Youre not doing yourselves any favors here if youre town

He caught scum day1 and stopped your wagon on the town cop. How is that worth this reaction? Because he lynched town D1 that you also were pushing people to vote for?

Because he's leading a case on you now, which is completely understandable given what happened and youre still alive to tell the tale?

[Vecna]

I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.

Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....

BM was being extremely arrogant and annoying yesterday about xtoxm. I suspect BM still is going to be playing incredibly stupidly for the rest of the game and thats why hes alive. BM also claimed bulletproof so make of that what you will.

I'm a VT, no powers.

I feel incredibly betrayed by xtoxm lynch yesterday and BM had no remorse whatsoever. He's just incredibly dumb.

VOTE: Blake

Worth noting, ABR claimed on the first page of the PT "There are no VTs in this game".

So that was another lie then!

Basically today is simple: if I'm town, ABR is scum.

I'm gonna let all the personal digs slide, because I know I've got you nailed and you're panicking.

See I remembered it being role madness from the advertisements I saw and this affirms my suspicions.

@Dave the fact two games failed was why I claimed target, if they hadn’t I very likely wouldn’t have. But I figured whoever had it used it up and so I wanted to confirm that person as town and also remove some the stink that has surrounded me up to now.

This is actually a good point

From the rule/game section:

Game Mechanics

-Everybody has an identity with some sort of ability and secrets to hide.

-Jigsaw's Games - Make agonizing choices to survive the traps! Will you live or die?
-

Jigsaw's Chosen

vs

Jigsaw's Acolytes.

Confirmed 16 vs 5.
-All chats are confirmed to have pregame + daychat.
-Only flavor from

Saw

through

Jigsaw

is being used. No

Spiral: From The Book of Saw

, sadly.
-Role PMs flip upon death, with possible redactions.

[Vecna]

Yet ABR claims to be a bland child VT with no abilities whatsoever

[Vecna]

would just being in a PT, while 90% of the game is in one, qualify for that?

[Vecna]

lol, and the mod just comes in here to stomp on ABR some more without being prompted

[Vecna]

guys. seriously. ABR is either using a mod fake claim of survivor neighbour, or his actual role is survivor neighbour. do not jump on him because you think the role is fake. it is not.

Maybe the mod provided them a group of fakeclaims for all scum to use. Maybe only 1 survivor fakeclaim was provided, and it was already used by momo

[Vecna]

momo has been lynched day 1! He was

Logan Nelson, a "Jigsaw Survivor" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge momo!

You are Logan Nelson, a "Jigsaw Survivor" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

"I speak for the dead."

Abilities

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want.
-As one of

Jigsaw's Acolytes

, you may discuss with other

Acolytes

here at all times: [REDACTED]
-Everyone who does not appreciate life must be tested. [REDACTED]
-You have infiltrated the group of Jigsaw survivors under the guise of

Simone.

As a Jigsaw Survivor, you may communicate with other Jigsaw Survivors here at all times: [REDACTED]
-You have many allies. [REDACTED]
-You have a cover for your evil schemes. Your assigned flavor fakeclaim is

Simone.

[REDACTED]

You win once all of

Jigsaw's Chosen

have been eliminated, or nothing can prevent it.
The game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

How is this a VT?

He had like 3 redacted things. The "everyone must be tested" is probably some trap ability of a specific nature we now havent seen.

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

ABR probably just failed to remember that himself.

[Vecna]

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

Read the momo role PM I quoted. He got his own flavour fakeclaim. Doesnt say anything about abilities in it, leading me to believe they just got a flavour fakeclaim

[Vecna]

oh wait, it does say redacted afterwards. oops

[Vecna]

Still, the way its worded, that assumption might not be too far off

[Vecna]

Ok thanks MT

[Vecna]

@BM The doll like.. laughed and she looked at it and it exploded. That's all I remember about that. My point is that's not a "Game". You're right that it's a trap though

I think whoever presents the game in the most black and white way possible without any nuance will be the most convincing.

So let's pretend we have 100% info and we KNOW that Danny is scum as much as if we saw his role pm with our own very eyes.

Danny is so scum that when he was born his mom tried to vote for him.

Hah, I sure do love this post

[Vecna]

Also, what if ABR is just bussing two of his teammates here for cred after he flips scum?

[Vecna]

Can we lynch Battle Mage? I'm getting super duper scum vibes there.

You havent participated in the game at all, and then you come out with this?

Whats scummy, why, how?

[Vecna]

The only thing to say on this, is I am convinced ABR is scum. ABR seems to think I'm town, although did also crumb that I was Jigsaw (not sure why).

This dual approach is actually a scumtell and ABR’s actions recently add to this particular issue

The fact ABR didn’t even seem to think to push BM until Drixx initiated the idea is super awful. It also, despite my initial shocked response, probably indicates Drixx being Town.

Really? Or he's just fighting auto loss?

If BM is town and ABR flips scum here, youre pretty much cleared.

We have me/VD that are semi and clear

Anyways, I did not like that drixx post at all

[Vecna]

awww shit.

ABR claimed neighbor without power, didnt he . . .

Yet ABR claims to be a bland child VT with no abilities whatsoever

I sure hope to see your votes on ABR soon if you haven’t done so already

GE's progression is also super over the top-hyped though

[Vecna]

BM I hope you are paying attention to how much Gamma is sucking up to you right now

Also to how GL is actually reasoning around this entire wagon.

Because anyone actually scumreading this slot must be playing another game than I am.

(also, thanks for putting in the hard work GL)

[Vecna]

Also the key giving can be roleblocked so I don’t think we can try to conf anything off the key so never mind the idea of sparing ABR for the key

eh actually alright this is fair and I missed this when skimming earlier

What if the key is just a scum tool?

So they can put themselves into traps, have it announced but walk out while fooling everyone that theyre part of it.

It makes very little sense for his actual victims to have keys to the traps.

What if Gamma actually scumclaimed with his key shit?

No idea why he'd give it to ABR though, unless he's bussing here.

The way GE is approaching this feels like he's actively bussing, or trying to fire up a TvT

Not sure which it is exactly

[Vecna]

The personal attacks and angry posting are highlights of ABR's town play from what I remember.

You really cannot tell me that someone that does it all the time as town cannot at least make a semi-decent attempt to duplicate that

Like, this is a very surface level read Drixx. Id like to think you'd be able to do better?

[Vecna]

I'm back. I see there's like a million new posts since I last read. Won't be catching up any time soon. Anyone care to give me the tl;dr?

I conftowned you. Youre my dad

Hi dad

BM is making a reasonably ok case for ABR scum. GE is acting odd. Drixx is acting odd. MT and GL are still obvtown.

Danny is probably still an easy mislynch

[Vecna]

Guess we get to share a trap tonight now

Sure a lot of people dying every night. Even if we lynch scum every day going forward, if that pace keeps being the way it was, we wont win in time

[Vecna]

UNVOTE: ABR

Im actually completely unwilling to end this day, untill <Blake, Drixx, BBmolla, GeorgeBailey>...etc

Do shit

[Vecna]

and much more inclined to lynch whoever complies with this request

[Vecna]

Last game I played with george he was just freeposting all game long, instead of this once in a while wall we get now.

Its not condemning in any way, but I just want to see more from that slot. I really dont think thats too much to ask?

[Vecna]

cop + cop + IC + IC = is too town-sided and can easily resolve itself for town after a couple days through dumb luck.

Someone is lying about their "innocents".

With 5 nightkills in 2 nights?

[Vecna]

What if the key is just a scum tool?

So they can put themselves into traps, have it announced but walk out while fooling everyone that theyre part of it.

It makes very little sense for his actual victims to have keys to the traps.

What if Gamma actually scumclaimed with his key shit?

No idea why he'd give it to ABR though, unless he's bussing here.

The way GE is approaching this feels like he's actively bussing, or trying to fire up a TvT

Not sure which it is exactly

these are some good thoughts btw

Gamma I think you need to flavor claim and explain why you have a key to the traps

and I still don't really buy that ABR is your strongest townread at night to the point where you give him this key, and then you flip so casually/easily to voting him today and not even entertaining ideas of ways to leash him to try to handoff or use the key.

p-edit: sure, fair enough. More activity from slots I think are town is always good. I just don't suspect him at all right now.

I can do this: I am Detective Allison Kerry and the flavor regarding my key is that I have a brilliant scientific mind. I assume that means the key is if the character’s own design rather than one found somewhere.
Also reading the flavor also made me notice that the key is said to negate “all negative effects”.

As for why I changed my mind like I did, I had a plan regarding having ABR give the key to a trusted player (which would have been Vecna or VD following Vecna’s claim) but I never spoke up about it because I was too worried about scum interfering and when my doubts were confirmed I dropped the idea entirely. So I thought about it but it never bore fruit for me.
Also I was pretty much on a coin flip between ABR and BM but the fact ABR tied something to his survival made me feel more inclined to give it to him, in case scum wanted to take that road.

Actually feeling good about Gamma town now.. the claim makes me lean town for one. The whole "had a plan" thing actually seems genuine and really hard to make up

pedit: i was literally gonna say that..

It reads as nonsensical to me, unless im just missing the essence

Why not hold on to the key and give it to that trusted player himself so the odds of scum interferance is way lower than when using a middle man? A middle man that on D2 had much less reason to be suspicious about.

This reasoning does not ring truthful to me, but its a nice attempt to try and talk himself out of it.

[Vecna]

uhhuh

[Vecna]

VOTE: iDanyboy

Nah I feel stupid if Danny is scum and we don't lynch him.

The simplest explanation is Danny is scum. I'm just too uncertain about anything else.

The thing holding me back....

Would the mod give him a cop fakeclaim while theres actually a town cop and 2 town IC's?

Like, its all counter-balanced by the number of deaths regardless, but a scum fakeclaim that will get cc'd by town straight away would be..."interesting design"

I dont particularly think the claim makes him scummier

[Vecna]

I'm struggling to find the 4 scum is why. I'm not sure of any reads right now.

If ABR is scum here he sure has gone back to being very good at acting the other way

[Vecna]

I think Vecna also mentioned that I didn't know about him

My role pm does kinda imply its likely that youre going ballistic looking for me, since im missing. But yes, it specifically states you do not know my alignment.

odd

[Vecna]

BBmolla post quickly, I don't know if you're scum or not

If I was scum I'd be posting

I strongly disagree with this statement

[Vecna]

I think Vecna also mentioned that I didn't know about him

My role pm does kinda imply its likely that youre going ballistic looking for me, since im missing. But yes, it specifically states you do not know my alignment.

odd

Guess the mod was just smart about it to make sure the flavour of the role pm's wont make me an IC as well

[Vecna]

I agree MT

[Vecna]

Unvote, Vote: BBMolla

I'll lead the charge again then...

ABR tomorrow please, for the love of God...

Total capitulation. Pathetic.

bro....

[Vecna]

VOTE: Drixx
VOTE: BBmolla
VOTE: Blake Bel

[Vecna]

Vecna is also outside hoods, but I instinctively believe his claim. Although if VaultDweller hasn't already confirmed it, can someone please get him to do so? Just to verify that his flavour also includes something about looking for his son.

There is no mention of a son in my role, but I mean, if someones going to clear me as town, who am I to second guess them?

I think Vecna also mentioned that I didn't know about him

And just like that ...

Cmon, give us some more than this simple rub n tug

If youre going to be suspicious about me, at least do it properly

[Vecna]

I dont think ill ever vote for Morning Tweet this game

Cant fake this shit

[Vecna]

Vecna is also outside hoods, but I instinctively believe his claim. Although if VaultDweller hasn't already confirmed it, can someone please get him to do so? Just to verify that his flavour also includes something about looking for his son.

There is no mention of a son in my role, but I mean, if someones going to clear me as town, who am I to second guess them?

I think Vecna also mentioned that I didn't know about him

And just like that ...

Cmon, give us some more than this simple rub n tug

If youre going to be suspicious about me, at least do it properly

You just aren't that dense. VaultDweller can't clear you. That

could

mean that you are a one way IC clear for him when you die. Or it could mean you are scum and you have a cool fake claim that you're taking advantage of.

It's interesting that YOU decided to bite on my post. It was much more meant to be aimed at VD who somehow apparently didn't take 10 seconds to think through the implications. But then YOU are the one who felt a prick and had to respond?

I felt a prick to respond because youre sticking to this minimalist game participation so noone can read you accurately.

Also, do you think a scum fakeclaim would actually have the flavour of another person in the game in it?

Because vaultdweller is Eric Matthews

Regardless, youre not actually trying to read me. Youre just appealing to the mechanical possiblity that I could still be scum. Which obviously is true, because were indeed not masons. That is how my role is designed.

So once again, feel free to actually come after me. Instead of hiding behind my role design.

And I care not for your scumread. I care for your lazy approach to this game

[Vecna]

You clearly have time to read it the thread and stay up to date. And yet you've responded today roughly with two statements, one that you have a gut feeling that BM is scum and the second insinuating things about me without directly trying to say things yourself.

And your focus on trying to appear all proper by presenting what im doing as two objectively terrible boxes is looking sinister enough on its own, without me needing to try to make it look any particular way

You had fun putting Pine in the trap after he was calling you out?

[Vecna]

##vote Drixx

[Vecna]

VOTE: Drixx

syntax mixup

[Vecna]

i have been somewhat reading this game. last i looked bbmolla was being pushed and he was very townie.

How is he different here from doubles mafia?

He ended up scum there as well

[Vecna]

i have been somewhat reading this game. last i looked bbmolla was being pushed and he was very townie.

How is he different here from doubles mafia?

He ended up scum there as well

I looked through doubles mafia a little bit (scum game)

BBMolla seemed pretty engaged in it. He gets excited in some of his posts. He has a post saying "I'm fairly confident this is a town win", so he at least sounds actually really invested. At the very least he is more engaged than he has been so far here.

Obviously he seems a bit.. less than engaged in 2407 and 2455. In 2455 he seems to be giving up with like 1 vote on his wagon. not really sure where that came from.

I'm not really sure if that was specific to that game or if it is an indicator of his scum play, but i did find it notable

I can tell you from playing in that game he seemed completely uninvested there as well. He was forced to become more invested because we literally paused that game as well repeatedly waiting for the lurkers to participate more.

[Vecna]

I've ignored 90% of the role drivel I'm just going by play so just correct me where wrong

So what play is it that youre going by BBmolla? Care to explain?

[Vecna]

This game is confirmed Role Madness, there are no Vanilla Townies or Mafia Goons.

Just a reminder that this is the mods definition so a neighbor is perfectly acceptable

ABR might be scum regardless of that but a case built on that is foolish

FOOOOLIOIISSHH

I think BM is the one using that as evidence against ABR

This is a misrepresentation, I've been clear on my view that I don't believe there are plain old town neighbours in the game. Conceptually there could be. But I don't think there is. So ABR would then be lying, duh.

Look at the flips we already have

[Vecna]

he's also dead, which confirms that neighbour is a possible role in this role madness game, thereby answering iDany's post. so.. yeah

your defense of drixx reminds me of something i could say to you about ABR. as I said i haven't really looked thru yet but my inital lynchpool is something like Drixx/dave/Blake/pisskop/BBMolla

BBMolla? great, time to put the chips in! I'll take Pisskop as a compromise if absolutely necessary.

I think you misunderstood my point about Momo - he wasn't a normal neighbour, he was a

scum

neighbour. So that is a "role" which is not a standard vanilla role. Clearly there are a couple of those in the game, so it seems obtuse to suggest the existence of scum in the hoods proves there must be vanilla town neighbours in the game. Personally, I don't buy it, and once again you've made a deduction which seems objectively unlikely and portrayed it as fact. This is not conduct which feels protown to me.

"Scum" is an alignment. "Neighbour" is a role. The fact he was on the scumteam does not make his role somehow more special than a town neighbour.

Momo's flip proves that neighbour is an acceptable role in this role madness.

I think of being on a scumteam as being a power role, coz u get to do shit, innit?

Seriously though, the point is not whether it's conceptually possible to have a town neighbour, but whether you actually believe there is 1. I do not. You evidently do. But we are getting to a point where it becomes less and less likely as more and more claims come out.

Maybe we can cut to the chase - if ABR purported to be the only vanilla town neighbour in the entire game, would you believe him?

Are you forgetting that Pine was a town neighbour?

I would expect somewhere between maybe 1-3 town neighbours. It will not surprise me AT ALL if there is multiple. 75% of the game is in PTs.

Pine was a double neighbour. His special ability was being in 2 hoods. Let's not go round in circles on this please.

still means that being neighbourly meets the role madness criteria

Also, someone also did the thing in their good iwth the momo role which confirms the same if they werent bullshitting

[Vecna]

i make my own fun idk about u guys

it irritates me, just as an fyi

and it makes me want to lynch you more

[Vecna]

Since apparently there is confusion over my definition of role madness, I'll also add that there can be more than one of the same role. As well, factional abilities do not count as a role (so a Mafia Goon with factional powers would not exist).

And this confirms it as well.

survivor is a role, since else momo wouldve been called a good

[Vecna]

@Drixx - can you give your read on danyBoy?

You have almost no interactions about/with him except to disagree with him about the merits of BM's case and then to disagree with me when I wonder whether danyboy saying Jigsaw is in his hood is unlikely to be scum premeditating their fakeclaim. I have no idea what your actual read on him is at all.

I kinda feel Drixx is scummier and scummier the more I think about it - the way he shaded momo but kept pushing BM/Vecna instead on D1 feels agenda-y.

While I dont like Drixx, I dont nessacerily think he was around after the momo wagon had started picking up steam? I might be wrong

[Vecna]

I'll do a proper reads list tomorrow, but for now the cliffnotes version to spark discussion because this game is stagnant: MT very town, Vault town partly from Vecna and partly from how he reacted to being "green checked", Gamma town because he was pretty town anyways, may have a cop inno, and scum almost never actually green check their partners in my experience, Drixx a bit scummy (and seen a couple people (I think BM/MT) call him townie maybe it was from the bulk of d1 I did not read could use an explanation), spicy town read on Blake/Fire, BM I have a rabbit hole paranoia read I don't want to go down unless asked but overall pretty town, should probably have a read on vecna but don't, thought he was townie but doubting myself and looking for the momo bus votes so IDFK, don't remember anything of substance from GL or Piss (that's scummier for GL because he's the one there good at mafia), molla has not seemed obv town yet which might make him scum but would like to hear fire's read.

I like these reads overall - I think Vecna is clearly town though

I'm happy to sheep you/MT today. I personally kinda want to give dany a day with that claim and lynch elsewhere, but if we're set on him seemling like obvscum and worth lynching through the claim then ultimately I'm on board with that

People also keep scumreading you for some reason. Youre the most towny slot to me this game and I really do not get it

[Vecna]

I'll do a proper reads list tomorrow, but for now the cliffnotes version to spark discussion because this game is stagnant: MT very town, Vault town partly from Vecna and partly from how he reacted to being "green checked", Gamma town because he was pretty town anyways, may have a cop inno, and scum almost never actually green check their partners in my experience, Drixx a bit scummy (and seen a couple people (I think BM/MT) call him townie maybe it was from the bulk of d1 I did not read could use an explanation), spicy town read on Blake/Fire, BM I have a rabbit hole paranoia read I don't want to go down unless asked but overall pretty town, should probably have a read on vecna but don't, thought he was townie but doubting myself and looking for the momo bus votes so IDFK, don't remember anything of substance from GL or Piss (that's scummier for GL because he's the one there good at mafia), molla has not seemed obv town yet which might make him scum but would like to hear fire's read.

I like these reads overall - I think Vecna is clearly town though

I'm happy to sheep you/MT today. I personally kinda want to give dany a day with that claim and lynch elsewhere, but if we're set on him seemling like obvscum and worth lynching through the claim then ultimately I'm on board with that

Id also like to give dany more time. Even if he was scum theres still plenty of scumbuddies out there to catch, and if we spare him and he's town were actually giving ourselves the option of catching jigsaw, which would turn all his results into actual townclears which guarantees a townwin.

Give scum the hard choice of whether they wanna let him live for another 2 nights

[Vecna]

But then again, Hoffman is quite possible a really strong scum PR and fits quite well with the cop hood and the scum that likely has the strongest cover

[Vecna]

Does anyone else have that irritation factor with certain players, where the player does x and you instantly know their alignment because how it makes you feel and rubs off on you?

Blake (ankamius) is one of those people for me, and whenever we are town together she just keeps opposing me on everything and fighting hard over it, and it irritates the living shitlights out of me. This has never not been the case.

Here, blake belladonna actually had very good-sounding reasoning. There was no irritation towards any slot. Easy going, get along with everyona ankamius.

Thats the reason why as soon as she announced her main (big mistake if u ask me) my strong townread turned into a scumread.

Firebringer is also really not giving me any reason to doubt that read here.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Vecna]

consider that me jamming with you woof

[Vecna]

Youre being run up in high pace bingle and need to fullclaim

[Vecna]

I already felt slimy even trying it with bingle

my nemesis, how you doing

[Vecna]

Anyways, I feel even better letting that shit live at least for today, because instead of iDanny the slot is now occupied by Bingle, which is an actual big threat if he is a town copper

[Vecna]

but then again, that replace out was so dodgy

[Vecna]

GE
Drixx
VD
Dave
EC

Purely from setup spec, this list should have 1-2 scum in it. I'd prefer lynching from here.

EC looks town. GE can only be one of the two scum (Jigsaw himself). I'm going to operate on the assumption that ABR/BM is TvT until I see compelling information otherwise.

If BM is town, then that means every trap participant on N1 was town. Which is interesting. I doubt there's more than one scum in the N2 trap survivors unless this was a major point of discussion yesterday. Tonight, people in traps should discuss reads as well as traps if possible and come into the thread with a summary of those reads.

We haven't seen anywhere near enough town power for scum to have 3 kills, particularly given knowledge of a godfather.

ABR's back off of Hectic onto momo doesn't look like a bus at all. It looks like ABR being cocky, sure, but that's not an AI condition.

An important part that hasnt been shared with you for some reason:

GE claimed to have a key that opens the doors to any trap.

My suspicion was this was a very obvious scumtool to place themselves in traps and have the mod announce that they were in them, and then walk out. He could also share this key with people. He gave it to ABR at some point.

From a lore PoV I guess that could be jigsaw, giving keys to his minions. But the play is just weird, since the mechanic seems to not have been used it GE is scum.

GE's play has been ever so slightly more towny than scummy, but its almost too obvious of a scum mechanic to ignore (especially if GL is town that can also disable traps)

[Vecna]

Pretty sure PK claimed no hood.

JSYK I'm normally a consumer of those summaries, not the one who makes them. There are occasional exceptions when I update one which is probably what you're remembering.
It's pretty far from solveable. AFAIK Tweet's list is accurate. I'll try to fill in a few tidbits that I can remember.

Gamma (?) claimed to be holding a key that can get him out of traps, and claimed to have given it to ABR. From an alignment standpoint ambiguous as hell.

There have been some flavor related claims. There is a father and son where one of them supposedly knows the other is town like a one-way mason or unconfirmable IC. One of the dead flipped "innocent wife" -- would a game also have an innocent son / innocent dad???

oh, guess I was too early to the ball

[Vecna]

if you want people to stop scumreading you, do stuff worth townreading?

Just sitting there indignant is doing nothing to help your case buddy

[Vecna]

And bbmolla not looking great in any post he does is a given regardless that were all already aware of

[Vecna]

Jigsaw works really well as the guy giving keys to his acolytes

Jigsaw will show up as town

Might be a more important flavour connection than BM's speculating on hoods and where jigsaw would fit best. Besides, maybe jigsaw isnt even john kramer here (unlikely but possible)