Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

More later today maybe
Please keep the game length tolerable okay? Don’t post more than 100 posts in a day for the first 3 days imo

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

Before you go! What do you mean by this?

The vote wasn’t properly tagged so I jokingly asserted it was a fake vote on a scum partner

Press play?

Morning Tweet activates the recorder.

A message booms out in a gravelly, sickening voice.

Hello Pine, momo, Morning Tweet, Elsa Jay, Gamma Emerald, VaultDweller, Vecna, Hectic, iDanyboy, GeorgeBailey, Drixx, davesaz, farside, Battle Mage, BBmolla, GuiltyLion, pisskop, Albert B. Rampage, Almost50, xtoxm, and Blake Belladonna. I want to play a game. Your sick obsessions with murdering and fighting one another has all lead you to become trapped. Trapped with an obsession with Mafia. You have lost time, blood, tears, and sweat to this game. What little you have left is once again put back into the game. Only it's not a game any longer. You are now playing in my game. And this game has deadly consequences. Soon the full ramifications will become clear. But for now, continue with your little "games", while the real game progresses. Live or die. Make your choice!

The recorded switches off. Morning Tweet throws it to the ground.

I felt this, OW.

Now I’m feeling mildly aggressed regarding my return to the site. Like it’s a “just when I’m about to get out, they pull me right back in” situation.

Jigsaw,

it’s personal

.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d assume Detectic over here knows what he’s doing and would use gloves

Btw far side are you just farside22? I’ve okayed like one game with you if so.

[Gamma Emerald]

It self destructs in response.

Hey, you "theme slipped". This is a SAW themed game, not a Mission Impossible themed game.

Glad I wasn’t alone in seeing that

Also “self destruct” doesn’t mean an explosion, I think your arm is fine Detectic

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma are you ignoring me?

I also disagree with you GB, I don't see Farside's push on Xtoxm as "framing it as a scumslip", that seems like an uncharitable way to interpret her post and it's not difficult for me to imagine her response coming from town

Gamma why do I always scumread you

How am I supposed to follow this up, it’s been how long since we’ve played? Probably half a year by now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm a little concerned that you felt the need to lie to us, Detectic

The Civil Lying Committee gave me the green light in this case. It's like when you're having dinner with your local Godfather and the

rat

(spoilered for those sensitive to the word) in your midst guns him down.

What’s the deal with [REDACTED]?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma if I promise it's nothing AI will that make you feel better? pleeaassseee (；人；)

I didn’t say it was but I don’t want to have to dance around such a basic words without reason.

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw A50 apparently you made an enemy in TBONTB? Won’t say more myself because I only know through an ongoing game.

[Gamma Emerald]

To Boon or not to Boon? Same pun and shiz.

This. You made an enemy’s because of that game.

[Gamma Emerald]

As the tape recorder self-destructs, you look around. You are in a long, dark, rusted hallway. Behind you is darkness. In front of you lies a monstrous doorway. Do you enter?

I carefully yet bravely head through the door.

[Gamma Emerald]

So here's what I'm thinking:
1) It's not safe to massclaim our PTs
2) It's safe for someone to claim not to be in a PT, although they might be lying about it and we don't have the means to verify.
3) If you're in a PT, you should announce your presence to the PT participants. Otherwise, you are damaging town cohesion and would therefore most likely be scum.
4) As the game progresses, if we clean out 2 scum from a single PT, it's probable that the remaining are town.

I do agree with everything said here though. The Collision Enquiry Unit approves.

In addition a traffic analyst is probably present I’d guess, or something with similar function.

[Gamma Emerald]

In that case, it would make sense to at least establish the number of PTs we have, right?

Yes, I agree.

If you're in a hood outside of the one Drixx and I are in, you should privately vote for your ambassador now, before it is decided

for you

.

I get an good vibe from this. Like on the level before the surface you realize ABR self declared himself the ambassador, that feels a little too bold for scum at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

So here's what I'm thinking:
1) It's not safe to massclaim our PTs

Why not? If what you say is true, then wouldn't scum already know what PT's we're all in, if everyone is supposed to post in them?

Scum might not be in one or more.

[Gamma Emerald]

How does massclaiming hoods catch scum rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

My personal experience with momo is purely lurking from him but if he wishes to change that I’ll welcome it with open arms.

Also my autocorrect is spazzing out rn.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh shit gotta play well if he’s watching.

[Gamma Emerald]

Then again I've played too many Boon games and think it's him or Almost running this game

What even
SirCakez is neither of these people

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm really not liking this line of thought from Elsa Jay. This game is 16:5. We know that. It's mod-confirmed fact. This implies that there is one scum team and I agree with pk when he says at this point, it's almost irrelevant if there's a traitor. EJ is doing setup analysis, trying to appear as if he is contributing to town but it's through a series of posts that don't actually give town meaningful information. When one of the lines in the mod post is "confirmed 16 vs 5" there's no need to get into all of this.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I really like this as well as Momo’s posting in general.

[Gamma Emerald]

Massclaiming early game is never done for a good reason.

In this case I feel like there's obvious modfuckery going on.

I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1, and just hunted for scum.

I agree with this.

I appreciate why we are having this discussion and the paranoia that comes from having private information, but the simple fact is that there is simply no utility to a neighborhood if we are committing to outing everything that is being said within a neighborhood. There are legitimate reasons why a neighborhood is better than the public thread for saying certain things, and within them lies a potential tool for reducing the process of elimination for which neighborhoods currently have scum within them. The mafia team's greatest asset is that they have more information than the town does, but town can leverage that into forcing the scumteam to show that to the town. Removing that option, to me, is a strange one.

There is little to gain from this for right now. A better course of action is to let it be and if something interesting happens that somebody feels should be in the main thread, then they will post it here. There is no need for ambassadors or to analyze the hoods at this time.

---

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

He had the most awkward entrance to the game.

I don't know if I would call Gamma's entrance to the game awkward. In fact, in my (admittedly outdated) experience with Gamma, I can't see him playing as casually as he is right now as scum. I have him as a decent townlean right now.

The one suspicious factor I can see with Gamma is that he has kept is vote on BM from RVS even as a wagon begins to build on BM.

@Gamma, is this an oversight are do you have a reason?
@Blake, did that factor into your vote on Gamma at all? Your reasoning was vague.

I don't see any reason as of yet to remove my vote. Pretty sure he's not

that

close to lynch, and I'm not to impressed by what he's done so far, and Danyboy seems like a weak vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cakez tells me I have to post in the main thread.

I’m not so sure about that.

Interesting post.

Any reads you've got rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

It's not much but his scumread on me seems off, like he seems like he's not engaging enough for how he's treating me

I could be enticed to vote him but for now I'm good to stay where I am.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: GuiltyLion
I'm still not exactly sold but in the interest of non-confrontationalism I will do this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Seriously why is Dany catching so many votes? I don't think his PT thought is super weird or bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm a little confused why we're focusing on creating main wagons so early? This isn't my home site where making solid wagons on the early days is hard, this is MS. And we've only been playing for less than 72 hours.

[Gamma Emerald]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

It's not much but his scumread on me seems off, like he seems like he's not engaging enough for how he's treating me

I could be enticed to vote him but for now I'm good to stay where I am.

Seriously why is Dany catching so many votes? I don't think his PT thought is super weird or bad.

lmao

"he's not engaging me!"

doesn't bother to respond at all to my primary push and scumread this game or engage with me about it

@Gamma

- please read my 309 and 369 and let me know why you think DanyBoy's comment is town indicative in response to those points.

I also find it suspicious that you talk about me not engaging you as reason for thinking I'm scum, yet ignore my thoughts and engagements with lots of other players in this game, including danyBoy

ABR - your lack of any commentary about this topic is noted.

I don't think Dany's comment is particularly town indicative minus I guess being maybe a little insightful, but I really don't get what's wrong with it. As for not participating it's been so long since he's played idk his playstyle now but I think he was a bit of a quiet thinker type before.

As for not engaging with you you've only thrown out gut as a reason as far as I can tell, so how am I supposed to effectively engage with that?

[Gamma Emerald]

By the way Battle Mage I'm calling you out for your posting, you seem to be posting a lot more than you need to, compress your thoughts dude.

Everyone else is pretty much okay ime although I don't think my 100 posts per day idea will hold if this day runs for a regular length

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think Dany's comment is particularly town indicative minus I guess being maybe a little insightful, but I really don't get what's wrong with it. As for not participating it's been so long since he's played idk his playstyle now but I think he was a bit of a quiet thinker type before.

This is pretty frustrating to me since I laid out numerous problems with it and all you can say is "I really don't get it" - what in my posts did you not get or what did you disagree with? What would help you for me to try to explain?

As for not engaging with you you've only thrown out gut as a reason as far as I can tell, so how am I supposed to effectively engage with that?

Yes, okay, you're salty that I scumread you. I've also interacted and made comments on many other things, but you don't engage with these at all and complain I'm not engaging with you. Are you really not able to see anything potentially town!indicative or something you want to press on in all the other thoughts/reads I've given outside of my couple of mentions towards you?

I'm not "salty" about anything, why do you say that? As for town!indicative things you've done idk rn, but like you seem awfully hot and bothered by my vote here. When it comes to Dany I just don't think it's scummy that he blurted out a thought like he did, it could be a scum thing but it's not scummy, there's no solid scum motivation that outweighs the posibble town motivations for it rn ime.

[Gamma Emerald]

5 have claimed no PT, you're missing pisskop.

OK, so 2 within momo/EJ/Gamma/VD/Vecna/Blake.

@Vecna: Since you are here, are you in a hood? Hust a yes or no will suffice. Thank you.
@Gamma/Elsa: you too since you're both kind of on and off all the time. Just a declaration that you are indeed in a hood or are not is all I ask.

I am in one
It’s very possible there is overlap I’d say

[Gamma Emerald]

What about Guilty, Gamma?

It's not much but his scumread on me seems off, like he seems like he's not engaging enough for how he's treating me

I could be enticed to vote him but for now I'm good to stay where I am.

VOTE: GuiltyLion
I'm still not exactly sold but in the interest of non-confrontationalism I will do this.

I hate buzzwords, but this seems a bit like appeasement to me.

That’s because it is appeasement.

[Gamma Emerald]

a50, why are we removing people in hoods from the poe?

Mate, you misunderstand the PoE. It's one of "unclaimed" status. They need to claim whether they are or are not in a hood. That's all I want to know. They are suspicious until they had claimed this (or confirmed the alternative hypothetical statement to be true). I am not saying we should lynch/not lynch based on who is/isn't in a hood.

Scumreads: Guilty Lion, Vecna, Xtoxm, BBmolla

Huh? How come Xtoxm & BBmolla are in scumreads when they have claimed no to be in any hoods? I mean, wouldn't they get caught if there is a Traffic Analyst/PT Cop?

Hmmm

[Gamma Emerald]

Ive only asked you to clarify one thing Drixx:

Did you, or did you not REALIZE that battle mage copied the player list as a joke and represented it as his reads list to mock the person doing it before him.

Because you called it strike two as to why he is scummy.

Ive only asked you to clarify one thing Drixx:

Did you, or did you not REALIZE that battle mage copied the player list as a joke and represented it as his reads list to mock the person doing it before him.

Because you called it strike two as to why he is scummy.

Re-read my post: I called the behavior of posting it in copy-cat style scummy. Like ... the entire emphasis of my comment towards it was on the "monkey see/monkey do" aspect. You can clearly understand my thinking if you take a few moments to read what I typed and think about what produces that content.

Pretty sure Drixx indirectly said “it doesn’t matter”

[Gamma Emerald]

Hi what’s the scoop

[Gamma Emerald]

This game looks like an absolute disaster rn

[Gamma Emerald]

Hectic: wgy are you voting A50?

I disliked the way/reasons he was using to push Elsa. It felt agenda-driven and still kinda does. People seem to really disagree with me though lul

I think I can almost see the peak of my character arc!

Pedit: My protagonist and saviour! Lend me a hand here, Gamma.

What’s up? I see ABR is pushing you, what happened?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah, yes. 614 was fun in a Dwarf Fortress kinda of way. Gamma's in my list of people who are explicitly not trying to scumhunt and instead coasting through the day. I'm restraining myself from throwing tantrums over it.

Well Im’ mostly just not caught up and don’t care to be because I feel like I’m not gonna be pleased with the results rn

Also what does “Dwarf Fortress kind of fun” mean?

[Gamma Emerald]

What has A50 been doing that’s odd? I consider myself a bit of an authority on his meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

What has A50 been doing that’s odd? I consider myself a bit of an authority on his meta.

Perfect, you're just in time.

What is his meta?

What has A50 been doing that’s odd? I consider myself a bit of an authority on his meta.

also did you intend this to sound as defensive as it came across? or were you aiming for neutral?

His meta is doing weird things

And idk what about that seemed defensive? Are you saying I was being defensive of A50?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hmmm, the announcement of the hydra heads has made my townread dissolve

poof

It’s an alt not a hydra -_-

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait did people change their minds and decide to out hoods fully now?

[Gamma Emerald]

zzzzzz

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm gonna be getting a new phone soon so my general activity may shoot up or down

[Gamma Emerald]

Hectic *could* be scum, but that's only because i dont have a townread on him, not for anything specifically. id ask for someone to explain it to me, but im going to reread for myself first. there better be something more than ABR saying "HECTIC CONFIRM SCUM"

As far as I can tell, that is pretty much it lol. I don't think I've ever been more confused about why exactly I'm being wagoned.

Elsa's vote is really bad. It's like when the cinematographer decides to put the lights in front of the cameras. Elsa, any reasoning?

Yeahhh ima
VOTE: Elsa
Until he comes forward with an actual read there

That vote honestly feels like a scum move

[Gamma Emerald]

That night went faster than I thought it would

Should I try to read the game or should I just be a sheep?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller
Vecna
iDanyboy
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Blake Belladonna

VD - IHaveNoClue. A nonentity can be roped for good measure, but only if there isnt a stronger lynch out there.
Vecna - Townread. Will not do.
Dany - Mild town lean, nothing to make me resist his lynch.
GB - Who?
Drixx - Scumread. Didnt like how the felt flittery Day 1, but Im the last person to say I should be townread for being concrete.
Blake - Mild Scum Vibes. Is Blake the kind of person to play an alt differently than a main?

What am I, chopped liver?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Danny Boy
I’m good sheeping this today.

[Gamma Emerald]

Rats! I think SirCakez is Scum. He knew all along momo was Scum and didn't say a word until he was hammered. He also gave him that fake claimm and in his Role PM no less. I mean SC already knows the characters he used for the game so he aparently gave momo one that didn't exist to avoid a CC.

But SIRIOUSLY, "You have many allies. [REDACTED]" certainly does hint there IS a bloody Traitor. Read THE WHOLE of that Role PM. It already have momo the Scum PT for starters, so what does "You have many allies" mean if [REDACTED] wasn't something like "You know you have a Traitor but are not informed of their identity"?

So, EJ was correct (but I still maintain it was scummy to mention it that way. SORRY EJ)

So, what are these games? Do Scum pick who plays in them or does the mod? What "decisions" were made that resulted in these deaths? Obviously only Farside and BM can answer this last one.

Ngl this looks forced bro

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw me and Dave are both in the EIGHT person hood

FYI I had initially townread Danny for his initial thought process feeling towny but I couldn’t vocalize that without outing both of us but now that no one cares about keeping it a secret I’ll come out and say that

As for why I voted him now his first post was about not being in a game but forgetting to post in the hood and I think that’s a scum post because scum have less motive to use the hood to solve and it reads very self conscious to me

So while I am sheeping there I also have my own reasoning

[Gamma Emerald]

Forgot one thing!

This message came over the loudspeaker in the middle of the night:

Welcome to ChannelSawNews

Today's topstory,Logan"momo"Nelson has been hung by the Survivors.He is survived by his partnersincrime,REDACTED, REDACTED,REDACTED,andJigsaw

BBmolla,identityhidden,was lauded as hero

"Well I told everyone I'd hammer in 10 minutes but I did in 5.Cause justice waits for noone."

Does this mean BBM is confirmed a townie?

Also, the 3 REDACTED+Jigsaw = NO SURVIVOR! Aaargh. So what the hell does that line in momo's PM mean??

The “Jigsaw Survivor” thing means they lived through one of the movies I assume

AND I DON'T HIDE BEHIND ALTS

Alts are nor always to hide identities, my friend. Some are just to play differently.

Still could be considered “hiding behind it” if your normal play is easy to sort

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't see A50 doing that as jigsaw. Jigsaw is a mastermind, someone clever, strategic. You were quick out of the blocks here - could YOU be Jigsaw?

wait why would Jigsaw's character in the flavor/movies be at all related to A50's play in this game? I don't remember anything about my character and I'm not exactly trying to role-play as them.

I think if A50 knows that a traitor exists he might spend day 1 trying to frame/set up a town slot as the traitor and use that as an easy narrative to push them, that's all. He's seemed more focus on traitor-spec in general compared to most players, no? Regardless it's why I'd look into him first of that group of 7, not a case of why he's definitively scum here.

I'm not gonna meta myself for you here. What I will say is I claimed my role towards the end of D1, so lynching me isn't the way for town to go. If Scum want to learn about another TPR they need to put me in a trap and get me killed, so excuse me if I decline the invitation to accept the rope route.

I concur with this. This not A50-scum behaviour. Although he might be just be playing a stellar game, 2 steps ahead.

What has A50 been doing that’s odd? I consider myself a bit of an authority on his meta.

Perfect, you're just in time.

What is his meta?

Huh.

Also I think everyone calls the traps games because Jigsaw says “I want to play a game” so it makes sense in the flavor context

[Gamma Emerald]

Should I try to read the game or should I just be a sheep?

Reading is for humans.

(but seriously, why aren't you either solving or even having fun??)

Because the tone yesterday felt very serious and alienating. Today feels different, more casual.

[Gamma Emerald]

glad i defended elsa at least
sadly i think she was vigged :c

Almost TMI, my man. Like, ALMOST.

Almost - what is the value of your traitor speculation?

So far, not much. But down the road it benefits us to hunt for one-way associatives (The Traitor knowing the scum team and them not knowing him/her). Also a variant of Traitor loses already if the main scum team is wiped out, so there's that.

Can’t exactly call that a variant when it’s what Normals do

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is in VaultDweller's PT?

That one is bugging me the most. I did some PT speculation on my own and -if I'm correct- he should be in the FBI PT, and those I found were all protagonists. HOWEVER, as fakeclaims are readily provided that's a minor point of worry to me. He could be "X" who is certified scum, but has a fake claim as an FBI agent.

P.S. If he is not with MT then he is in the large one and I'd leave it to them to decide on him based on their PT content.

Btw I thought the fake claims would line up with whatever categories the scum character fit into because I remember something about a cop who actually was doing Jigsaw’s bidding or w/e but from the wording of the flip it seems there’s not a system like that in place

[Gamma Emerald]

Vote: Xtoxm

Based on what happened last night, and everything we've seen so far today, Xtoxm is a great bet for scum and Jigsaw himself.

Trust BM - I have never steered you wrong before.

I’ve got mixed feelings on this, I think the idea of Jigsaw running the traps/games makes sense, but unlike Danny I don’t have something that I personally find scummy from this person

Can someone run me through an actual case for Xtoxm?

[Gamma Emerald]

A50 get your mind out of the gutter

[Gamma Emerald]

Just as an FYI I would suggest not lynching me today

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Xtoxm
That summary is good enough for me. The idea of ABR not being trapped because he was the message target feels valid. Plus the mailman power seems like something Jigsaw would have in his role.

As for Blake I feel like she’s off from past town games but the fact she’s an alt could be causing that

[Gamma Emerald]

BTW we know the make up of the cop and FBI hoods, do we know the Jigsaw Survivor hood make-up?

[Gamma Emerald]

Aight

If someone could set me up a temp hood with one or both of those two that’d be great

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I already voted Xtoxm

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry my last couple days have been way busier than anticipated.

I had a key that allows me to escape if I am in a game at any time. The key word is had, I gave it to ABR last night because he needed it more than me. Idk if the games with nothing happening were because of that yet because I have not read past like the first page of this Day.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh god ABR and BM are 1v1ing what the fuck happened

[Gamma Emerald]

Due to the Choice made in a Game by Battle Mage last night, Elsa Jay died...again! Talk about overkill...

Due to the Choice made in a Game by farside22 last night, her head was crushed with ice blocks and she died!

Almost50 was shot in the head! He died!

Not only because Cakes didn't discredit it, but it's worded differently.

Elsa's death was caused by BM's game choice. He had options, and he picked for that one to happen. Whether it was between a limited pool of players, it was any player he wanted, it was him or elsa, etc., i dont know

A50's death was basically the same as "A50 died last night!". The first regular night kill, mod confirmed to come from the vig.

Makes me think scum is incapable of killing us in any way other than playing games. If scum had access to a night kill, then Cakes wouldn't have told us that farside was the one who shot A50. That's my thinking anyway

Inferring off of this, I think the multitude of kills is actually within the balance and if we kill Jigsaw we stop the rapid deaths. Pretty sure this was said D2 as well but I want to re-affirm it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Battle Mage's Setup Theory

4 person survivor hood - includes 2 scum (Momo and ABR)
3 person FBI hood - NO SCUM
8 person (Cop?) hood - Likely only 1 scum, outside chance of 2.
No hood - Likely 2 scum, outside chance of 1.

I'll case ABR properly later, but wanted to set out my theory on the setup first. Reason for this is partly flavour (I spent the night phase reading up on all the Saw flavour!) and partly what I think the Mod would do to balance the game whilst making it consistent with the flavour.

Assumption:

Flavour consistency is very important to the Mod. So far, everyone in hoods, has conformed to the flavour of that hood. This INCLUDES SCUM. Momo had a fakeclaim of a town survivor, but his actual scum character was a survivor in the movies.

One of the premier baddies in Saw is a character called Amanda Young. She was also, notably, a Jigsaw Survivor. My hypothesis is that ABR is Amanda Young, and therefore my hood contained 2 scum originally.

There was only 1 cop who was a baddy in the franchise, Det Mark Hoffman. So he is presumably in the 8-person hood.

John Kramer (Jigsaw) would be outside of any hood. And the remaining scum, I theorise, is most likely to be Lawrence Gordon, who was a doctor, and wouldn't fit in any of the hoods either.

From a gameplay perspective, unbalanced number of scum in the hoods makes sense (to give false positives in the small hood, and everyone chasing shadows in the big hood with only 1 scum). Hoods with the right proportions of scum would be too town heavy, especially with the amount of PRs. Plus it's Saw, so the point is the game is meant to screw with you.

In the game that means:

ABR is scum.
There is 2 scum within: Pisskop, BBmola, Vecna and GuiltyLion
Blake and MorningTweet are town.
There is only 1 scum in big hood, which I still think is Danyboy (especially if ABR is scum, as he loves Danyboy). But we shouldn't be hitting here yet as we have lower mathematical odds of success.

Scum aren’t put into hoods where their own flavor would make sense, but their fakeclaim’s flavor. Albeit there’s enough Saw movies (8 by now?) that your theory can work does that change your thinking at all?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also is John Kramer Jigsaw’s (supposed?) fakeclaim flavor or his true identity?

[Gamma Emerald]

John Kramer would be a terrible fake claim for Jigsaw. Cause John Kramer IS jigsaw.

Jigsaw's fakeclaim would be an entirely random victim or other side character somewhere in the movies

I already accounted for that.

Like that felt needlessly rude.

[Gamma Emerald]

Just an FYI if we decide we want to lynch ABR today we should instead give him a day to hand off the key and revisit the next day

Plus like BM’s speculation means ABR isn’t likely to be Jigsaw anyway so that’s another reason to not lynch there yet

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry my last couple days have been way busier than anticipated.

I had a key that allows me to escape if I am in a game at any time. The key word is had, I gave it to ABR last night because he needed it more than me. Idk if the games with nothing happening were because of that yet because I have not read past like the first page of this Day.

How is it pro-town to reveal this now?

Because I knew I was in yesterday’s PoE and my goal was just to get it to someone I trusted, and with the fact two traps failed I assumed it might have been used.

[Gamma Emerald]

Later.

I am on my way to work as we speak.

Take the day off, this is life or death!!

dude what the fuck

[Gamma Emerald]

I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.

Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....

BM was being extremely arrogant and annoying yesterday about xtoxm. I suspect BM still is going to be playing incredibly stupidly for the rest of the game and thats why hes alive. BM also claimed bulletproof so make of that what you will.

I'm a VT, no powers.

I feel incredibly betrayed by xtoxm lynch yesterday and BM had no remorse whatsoever. He's just incredibly dumb.

VOTE: Blake

This turnaround on Xtoxm is curious

Wasn’t that one of the names in the D2 PoE? I definitely feel like ABR was on board with that D2

[Gamma Emerald]

Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

VOTE: xtoxm

Yep as I recalled he was on it and on board with it

[Gamma Emerald]

Side note I now understand how Titus suddenly started hating D1

Because D1 this game was practically unplayable but after that it’s been fine

[Gamma Emerald]

I am asking the mod a question and based on the answer I might have a plan.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well we already know Xtoxm's claim actually since he sent it to me via pm last night.

Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?

She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.

You've got my support but I think both should claim today.

VOTE: xtoxm

Ayt. Pisskop wanna vote xtoxm?

You say you feel extremely "betrayed" by the xtoxm wagon?

I was townreading Xtoxm. His idea Xtoxm was Jigsaw didn't even make any sense but I was too annoyed to fight for a blake lynch.

After the flip I just realized he wanted to kill xtoxm for personal reasons. I tried to get him on track yesterday but his confbias was too annoying to deal with for a whole day.

I feel disgusted by the whole thing and I should never give leadership up to BM or any inferior player.

Suuuure

Also the key giving can be roleblocked so I don’t think we can try to conf anything off the key so never mind the idea of sparing ABR for the key

Plus the fact he can give it to a buddy also wasn’t one I had fully considered.

[Gamma Emerald]

I still kinda want to just lynch iDanyBoy or Gamma in a vacuum, they're my strongest independent scumreads.

Yesterday I felt that Blake was scum but given that ABR/BM are both still alive, I'm a little less eager to jump to a quick conclusion there. I'm also not sure it's something that has to be resolved today.

Guilty lion keeps posting exactly the thoughts that are in my head.

How did both ABR and BM survive both N1 and N2 after that D1?

It might be a scum ploy to make them look suspicious, but in this game town has plenty of stuff to be suspicious about already.

It stands out.

Also, blake and Drixx seem to have zero interest in thsi game at all. Drixx makes a post and its some talk about his internal mech thinking. Who does that after all the shit that has gone down as town, knowing you havent participated in the main threat at all (pretty much).

Also, that hammer on Xtox went through reallly really quickly.....

BM was being extremely arrogant and annoying yesterday about xtoxm. I suspect BM still is going to be playing incredibly stupidly for the rest of the game and thats why hes alive. BM also claimed bulletproof so make of that what you will.

I'm a VT, no powers.

I feel incredibly betrayed by xtoxm lynch yesterday and BM had no remorse whatsoever. He's just incredibly dumb.

VOTE: Blake

Worth noting, ABR claimed on the first page of the PT "There are no VTs in this game".

So that was another lie then!

Basically today is simple: if I'm town, ABR is scum.

I'm gonna let all the personal digs slide, because I know I've got you nailed and you're panicking.

See I remembered it being role madness from the advertisements I saw and this affirms my suspicions.

@Dave the fact two games failed was why I claimed target, if they hadn’t I very likely wouldn’t have. But I figured whoever had it used it up and so I wanted to confirm that person as town and also remove some the stink that has surrounded me up to now.

[Gamma Emerald]

I believe his words were "I lead you into my hectic trap"

...whose words?

[Gamma Emerald]

It's also funny reading back on the end of Day 1. Once Momo knew he was stuffed, he randomly started attacking ABR (to try and buy ABR some towncred later):

You think I'm the scum in our PT? I don't believe you.

It can't be anyone else.

momo - I know for a fact I'm town.
Pine - Yes, he's lurked a bit but nothing about his play seems particularly scummy.
Battle Mage - I don't like that he's scumreading me, but his casual tone and attempts at actually scumhunting don't seem scummy.
ABR - I can't read you well, but you've tried to make it seem like you're 100% town too deliberately and the way you're pushing this wagon is very sus. Your play seems scummy.

So yeah, out of the 4 of us, you're most likely scum.

No effort to bus too hard, but just hard enough to make people think it can't be SvS. Wrong Momo, wrong!

Yeah the evidence is stacking up against ABR here

I wasn’t sure about your initial case but you’ve since backed it up with a string of solid follow-up/proof.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah it would be really funny except in 150+ games I have never done that in my career, because I am bad at scum. I am ALWAYS the sacrificial lamb, and NEVER expected to go to to the end. Look at any of my scum games. I have NEVER played as if I'm good at scum. Look at my wiki.

Except this is your first game in a while and I know when I have long breaks my play tends to show a shift upon my return. Could be the same for you.

[Gamma Emerald]

STILL waiting for GE to show up and spill his guts.

Btw I’m glad Drixx did this but I don’t know if it would be foolish to townread him for it so I’m hesitant to

[Gamma Emerald]

During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true.

So these are ABR's supposed lies, ya? And from what ABR told you, you came up with this:

Spoiler: BM's Xtoxm case

Last night Xtoxm shared his fakeclaim (postman) with ABR to try and protect himself, whilst simultaneously trying to kill me. Sent him a love-letter, basically telling ABR how big and strong he is, and promised to sheep him forever (admittedly, this is how ABR described it ). Firstly, there's no way in hell anyone town is doing that. Secondly, the likelihood of scum not putting a trap on ABR last night is reasonably slim given his profile (and I believe he's close-to-confirmed town), so deduce that the reason they didn't is because Xtoxm was going to target him (because if ABR was trapped he couldn't have received the letter). Thirdly, Xtoxm randomly asked on Day 1 to be investigated by different types of cop, and I assume only Jigsaw would be cop-proof, and would have a big incentive for an early clear investigation. Plus Jigsaw is probably not in a PT, so that gives a 1/6 chance anyway, and Xtoxm is clearly the scummiest player of the 6 on his own merit. Others have already made the case on his Day 1 voting pattern being dreadful, but also keeping himself quiet enough to avoid much interest. His only post today is a memorial for Elsa who was subjected to 2 traps last night. Hence we should Vote: Xtoxm

And then ABR responded with this:

All this is true and BM's case has merit, I won't deny it.

I can go for Xtoxm if everyone promises me you will lynch Blake if I die or I will endeavor to make you see Blake is scum for the rest of Day 2.

It sounds to me like all ABR did was tell you that Xtoxm sent him a love letter. Which we now know is true. And you made all the connections yourself. Now I dont blame you for the connections you drew, although I dont think ABR misfed you information here

That was 1 lie, my case set out lots of them. Including, as you note above, that he vehemently denied endorsing the Xtoxm case and supporting his lynch. He claimed Xtoxm was a mailman rather than an informant as he actually flipped (I don't actually know the difference, although the latter sounds more powerful, like he might have some knowledge?). Further we don't know if the contents of the letter are true - ABR-scum would be incentivised to make them up to make Xtoxm seem like scum. Or perhaps Xtoxm really did say the things he said in the letter, in which case lynching him was probably a blessing in disguise if he's planning to sheep scum for the whole game. I guess we'll never know. But I reckon ABR was clearly thrown by the fact I revealed his claim so soon, which would have given Xtoxm time to counter, but eh....we lynched too quick...

An additional point to be raised here is the attempted lynch chain ABR tried to set up: there was no clause regarding the Xtoxm flip, he just wanted Blake after. Iirc it was following that when ABR became good with it, so if ABR flips scum I’m inclined to townbin Blake.

[Gamma Emerald]

Mailman is a role that sends a letter to somebody else. Informant is a made up role name for this game. I think.

ABR wouldn't make up the contents of the letter. Xtoxm could have pointed out that he was lying.

BM I see you pointing out the odd turnaround from MT and I agree it’s rather curious but what I’m concerned about is this manner of defense. It seems MT is clinging to certain sticking points rather than trying to combat the full case, which seems like she knows she can’t do that with good results. That seems like a scum POV to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Hey hold on I remember that surname (Denlon) flipped. What is the relation of Jeff and Cornett Denlon?

However regarding this point there are two possibilities for this group. Corley however seems to match neither. So I’m rather concerned MT treats this as a point to take down BM’s case.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

Not enough honey. Sure you may only take interest in certain parts and some things may be hard to discuss due to the closed-door nature of the topic but I still think your approach is scummy. You are finding the one or two things that don’t quite fit and arguing that those are enough reason to not lynch ABR. And the turnaround BM pointed out feeds into that, as well as fitting a personal scum tell I’ve developed, where scum will latch onto a point that a townie proposes if it sounds better than what they’re currently using for logic, regardless of optics. I suggested that we spare ABR because of the key and you suddenly pick up on that as your key (no pun intended) reason to not lynch ABR.

So BM there’s a reason what you observed happened.

[Gamma Emerald]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

[Gamma Emerald]

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry for the non-existent D2. I'm catching up, and I want to lynch Idany, because I still think he's still a good lynch today.

Lynched:

momo

momo (11) - Hectic, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, Albert B. Rampage, Elsa Jay, Blake Belladonna, Almost50, Battle Mage, xtoxm, BBmolla

To re-iterate my TR:

The first three votes on here is pretty much my town-core (obviously excluding the dead people). I feel like the wagon-starters are the most likely to be town on wagons that flip scum.

xtoxm

-

xtoxm (9) - Battle Mage, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, BBmolla, Almost50, Gamma Emerald, pisskop, Albert B. Rampage

This wagon is interesting. There's obviously a bunch of scum on here, but I townread most of the people on the wagon (dead towns are a given), by PoE, scum would be: Pisskop, Gamma, and BB.

Of the three, I think this was a sus vote due to lack of progression:

Agreed btw

VOTE: Xtotm

Besides that, I still think idany has a better chance of flipping scum.

VOTE: Idanyboy

iDanyboy (4) - Battle Mage, momo, BBmolla, Albert B. Rampage

This is probably the only thing psyching me out right now. This is might be distancing though. Momo and Idany both switched to the Hectic wagon when it got hot, so I can see the partnering.

ABR and BM have very similar posting styles so I realy don't get this hate. BM is playing the same as he did in day 1 and he loved him there.

VOTE: ABR

This vote is also kinda awful. Barely commenting on ABR, and framing it like the choice is between BM and ABR. They can be both Town. Which is what I think.

Right now, I don't see BM or ABR flipping scum. BM was actively spearheading the momo lynch, and ABR voted at a time when the wagon was still small. I don't see scum bussing early when there's a possibility of other wagons. I think that if ABR was scum, he would have joined the Elsa wagon when it was large. He was also didn't want Elsa to be lynched that day.

Also, this is a weaker meta read, but before this game I actually sorta knew about ABR from the wiki. I read up on this one guide he made (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12552) which helped immensely in a game I recently played (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82497). He seems to be playing a lot like how he talked about in the guide, which he describes as starting pro-town discussions.

You know looking at that guide why did ABR never try to have my head for deliberately avoiding Day 1? Kinda tells me he wasn’t fully in this mindset.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, this is a weaker meta read, but before this game I actually sorta knew about ABR from the wiki. I read up on this one guide he made (viewtopic.php?t=12552) which helped immensely in a game I recently played (viewtopic.php?f=84&t=82497). He seems to be playing a lot like how he talked about in the guide, which he describes as starting pro-town discussions.

God damnit that was the wrong guide. This is the one that helped me out (although the other one was helpful too):

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=7958

My question still stands.

[Gamma Emerald]

BM I think the heart of our disagreement is whether or not the Acolytes real flavour name aligns with the hood status or not.

Lynching ABR wouldn't solve that mystery unless he flips scum. If he flips Corbett, we learn nothing.

That is a weak sauce reason to not lynch ABR imo

Plus it’s

extremely

circumstantial evidence.

[Gamma Emerald]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

[Gamma Emerald]

(´-ω-｀) neither of them are scum gamma do not worry

Your key hasnt been used, ABR has never been tested

In light of Sircakez actions to keep the peace, I will remain so long as there are no more personal attacks, targeted harassment, or name-calling. I will exercise restraint in my criticism as well to be fair and equal. I'm under the impression that BM doesn't intend to derail the game with verbal abuse either. Let's carry on with renewed positive intents.

As far as I can tell you’ve been the one initiating the personal attacks, BM has just been reacting with a bit of a jovial “it doesn’t matter” tone that probably just comes off as aggressive. I’m not trying to besmirch you, just clearing the air. I think I’ve been on the giving and receiving end of that in the past.

Anyway I’m at where I came in so I’m okay to VOTE: ABR

[Gamma Emerald]

The MT post isn’t supposed to be there

[Gamma Emerald]

Pine has been vivisected by buzzsaw night 1! He was

Agent Lindsey Perez, a FBI Jigsaw Survivor aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

Welcome to Jigsaw's Revenge Pine!

You are Agent Lindsey Perez, a FBI Jigsaw Survivor aligned with Jigsaw's Chosen

"You know, there are still a couple of things I can't quite wrap my head around."

Abilities

-During the day, you may vote for whoever you want to arrest on suspicion of being involved in the Jigsaw murders.
-As a member of the FBI, you may communicate with other FBI here at all times: [REDACTED]
-You've survived the Games before and possess a unique connection with others who have as well. You may communicate with other Jigsaw Survivors at all times here: [REDACTED]

You win once all of

Jigsaw's Acolytes

have been eliminated.
The game thread is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82769

Okay so I got sent down the Mod ISO rabbit hole by some peculiar flavor text and found this, based on how it’s described the Survivor PT is people who “survived the Games”, which tells me they should have had some actual involvement in them. Which lends credence to BM’s doubt regarding ABR’a flavor.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma thats fine youre in my POE too.

I know and at this point I really don’t care.

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

I’m curious, what caused me and BB to shift here?

Also not a fan of what feels like you short selling the ABR case.

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we lynch Battle Mage? I'm getting super duper scum vibes there.

No? I’m concerned you think this.

Also very interesting to see ABR’s read on BM having turned like it has.

[Gamma Emerald]

The only thing to say on this, is I am convinced ABR is scum. ABR seems to think I'm town, although did also crumb that I was Jigsaw (not sure why).

This dual approach is actually a scumtell and ABR’s actions recently add to this particular issue

The fact ABR didn’t even seem to think to push BM until Drixx initiated the idea is super awful. It also, despite my initial shocked response, probably indicates Drixx being Town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I felt like Gamma got mentioned by more than a few ppl but maybe im making that up. BB definitely was

I mean you’re right and idk where BM gets the sense I only had one person wanting my head

GL, ABR, and Blake are ones I remember but there’s likely more

[Gamma Emerald]

My question for Gamma wasn't about giving the key, it was about revealing who the key went to.
If ABR is town, doesn't get lynched, and scum are the ones making the choices on traps, it tells them who not to trap.
If ABR is scum and this information makes us want to not lynch him, then that's bad too.

In the first case pretty sure ABR could pass it on again but there is the roleblock concern.

[Gamma Emerald]

My theory is that BM is scum with a bunch of lurkers.

He decided to bus one for towncred and ride it out.

I got in the way of that when I wanted to lynch his scumbuddies one by one.

So he orchestrates a day 3 mislynch of yours truly.

Are you serious going to call momo a

lurker

???

Listen buddy. Momo was not lurking this game because if he was he would have had

no

thread presence, and very likely would have flaked. There’s a reason I was disgruntled about momo joining (however I’ll acknowledge he pleasantly surprised me despite being scum).

[Gamma Emerald]

My question for Gamma wasn't about giving the key, it was about revealing who the key went to.
If ABR is town, doesn't get lynched, and scum are the ones making the choices on traps, it tells them who not to trap.
If ABR is scum and this information makes us want to not lynch him, then that's bad too.

You make a fair point, but I don't think it makes Gamma scummy - giving a key to a player to save them from traps seems like a very noble thing to do.

Speaking of which I’m very curious why ABR didn’t even flinch in his read on me after I’d announced that.

[Gamma Emerald]

awww shit.

ABR claimed neighbor without power, didnt he . . .

Yet ABR claims to be a bland child VT with no abilities whatsoever

I sure hope to see your votes on ABR soon if you haven’t done so already

[Gamma Emerald]

guys. seriously. ABR is either using a mod fake claim of survivor neighbour, or his actual role is survivor neighbour. do not jump on him because you think the role is fake. it is not.

Maybe the mod provided them a group of fakeclaims for all scum to use. Maybe only 1 survivor fakeclaim was provided, and it was already used by momo

This makes no sense because obviously specific people are in specific hoods? They can’t just switch around willy-nilly.

[Gamma Emerald]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

So you think I would only use the key as an extra incentive not to lynch ABR if i were scum

(>﹏<) ok..

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

I’m not saying you only use the key as a point as scum, I’m saying the way you did it (the turnaround BM pointed out) was scum indicative.

Also the tone of the last line is pretty bad, it feels like scum trying to recoup what they can from this situation.

[Gamma Emerald]

The fact is theres a lot of players here and majority is town, if you let 1 town player tell you who to lynch based on their biased opinion without thinking for yourself, because your head isn't on the chopping block yet, then it's going to be a tough uphill battle to win for town.

Then why did you let BM lead you into lynching Xtoxm?

This is scare tactics, plain and simple.

[Gamma Emerald]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

i do, Pine told me in our PT. Perez and Logan do not fit with that theme. BM's role and Simone do.

Blake please confirm these claims MT is making about your hood contents are true, false, or somewhere in between.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh also @Gamma

There are only 5 jigsaw acolytes that I know of: Gordon, Hoffman, Jigsaw, Amanda, and Logan. And there are 5 scum in this game.

Not enough scum flavour. So I do think it's a bit broken.

I refuse to believe that’s all the possible scum across 6 movies (I know I’m right with this number).

[Gamma Emerald]

ABR isn't a VT by his claim, he's a Neighbor.

Depends what "Role Madness" entails, if it's as SirCakez defined it, then ABR is plausibly what he claimed

SirCakez literally said every person has “an ability and something to hide”. While momo was just a mafia neighbor he certainly had something to hide. Imo being a Plain-Jane Town neighbor isn’t enough to fit that bill.

[Gamma Emerald]

@MT

The only way out of this is for you and I to stop defending.

Stop the discussion now before scum gain momentum.

We should just go on the attack on Danny, and spam the thread 1000x times about Danny being scum and ignore everyone else, and call into question anyone defending Danny, and attack attack attack.

lul

[Gamma Emerald]

Everyone wants to cherry pick things, but who has done a deep dive into danny's iso? Oh, what deep dive you say? HE MADE FIVE POSTS IN THIS ENTIRE GAME?

Interesting you were so hung up on Blake before, here you lock onto Danny, and later you shift to BM

You’re not genuinely scum hunting. You’re doing whatever’s convenient.

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

I’m curious, what caused me and BB to shift here?

Also not a fan of what feels like you short selling the ABR case.

Vault going way up made me want to reconsider my weaker reads. A lot of people expressing scumreads on BB made me feel insecure about my read on him.

The odds of scum never putting a townie in a trap increased my paranoia on GL

. You i had really weak reasoning for town leaning so i decided it wasnt smart to put you above unsure.

im just generally not a fan of the case!

wrt the bolded, what do you make of the fact ABR hasn’t been in one either despite being much more vocal/influential than GL?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, what if ABR is just bussing two of his teammates here for cred after he flips scum?

It’s possible but I personally doubt it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey MT if BM is getting tired, do you think its because danny lynch is gaining momentum since we are making more posts than him and BM is starting to give up?

Nice leading question there pal.

[Gamma Emerald]

And Danny is my 2nd top independent scumread, so definitely not defending him. But I don't like to settle for 2nd best.

It's so weird that BM doesn't want to lay a vote on his 2nd top "independent" scumread. Anyone else find that weird?

No it’s not. You don’t settle in circumstances like this. If he lacked the charisma to push it through, yes, but he clearly has it. So why should he give his top scumread an inch of breathing room?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

I’m curious, what caused me and BB to shift here?

Also not a fan of what feels like you short selling the ABR case.

Vault going way up made me want to reconsider my weaker reads. A lot of people expressing scumreads on BB made me feel insecure about my read on him.

The odds of scum never putting a townie in a trap increased my paranoia on GL

. You i had really weak reasoning for town leaning so i decided it wasnt smart to put you above unsure.

im just generally not a fan of the case!

wrt the bolded, what do you make of the fact ABR hasn’t been in one either despite being much more vocal/influential than GL?

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Sorry I referenced the wrong post earlier regarding all the flavor spec, this is the post that defeats BM's flavor argument.

The reason this doesn’t refute it has already been covered, are you actually all caught up currently?

Also “obvscumming” ffs this is the most confident I’ve felt in a long time about my handle on the game so let me have this moment ok? If I’m wrong then I’ll swallow my pride and try to go from there but I want to be able to relish being right if I am for once. I’m trying to actually build a bit of an ego for myself because that’s my main weakness as town it seems.

PEdit: I am

not

sucking up to BM, honestly he’s doing that to me with how he’s patting me on the back if we want to get into that. I’ve just been working with him a lot because our thought processes are running on similars tracks.

@Drixx idk if I’d call the behavior by ABR “ragey”. Seems more passive-aggressive, especially recently.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay you just said you skimmed so that explains why you seem to missing some of the details

FYI GL I am liking your approach rn, you seem to be arguing in good faith here.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

Hey hold on I remember that surname (Denlon) flipped. What is the relation of Jeff and Cornett Denlon?

However regarding this point there are two possibilities for this group. Corley however seems to match neither. So I’m rather concerned MT treats this as a point to take down BM’s case.

@GL

Essentially MT is acting like she is right without just cause to do so as far as I can tell regarding her view on the meaning of that hood. The hood can either be people who were in that list (which Corlett straight up doesn’t fit) or people who survived Jigsaw’s traps/games (which Corlett also doesn’t fit too well because of being an extortion piece for one of the actual participants). Either way ABR’s claim doesn’t match flavor there. MT acts like this is enough to disprove it because Amanda isn’t in that group but ABR could be someone else who is, which is known as the Fallacy Fallacy (arguing because someone used a logical fallacy their argument has no merit).

[Gamma Emerald]

Confirm vote: iDanny

This is ironic with what follows

[Gamma Emerald]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

suggestion: sleep on it, and join the righteous wagon tomorrow.

Maann

it's a feels bad knowing that ABR could be scum, and if he is, you're gonna absolutely destroy me sometime later for not believing your case. if he's scum, i honestly think itd be incidental to a lot of your case. The flavour reasons at least.

If he's town ill feel moderately good though (^ω^)

The flavor is NOT the majority of the case though and maybe if you engaged with the rest of it (outside the PT stuff) that might click?

[Gamma Emerald]

Flavor is entirely NAI so is setup spec.

Great! You’re still the scummiest by play

[Gamma Emerald]

@ABR put the quote monoliths in spoilers dude!!

(Sorry, I really feel like this fits what you just said)

[Gamma Emerald]

Guilty!!! 1811 contains my recount of last night's nights events.

God the BM/ABR dynamic is somewhat of a nightmare

You made it 100% worse and this game has become a shitshow, BM made 160+ posts in the last 12 hours basically repeating the same thing over and over in different ways, enabled by you who kept questioning him and asking from different angles.

This gives me the vibe that ABR is worried about the associations coming from what MT is doing

However I’ll also add in that I myself have told someone to back off defending me as town because I had it handled, however I also have let others defend me when I felt overwhelmed and I don’t think ABR is the type to do that.

[Gamma Emerald]

also Gamma, I don't mean to stomp on you if you are town, but a number of your posts in the past few pages are taunting/shading through dirty/cheap potshots, not generating useful info or adding to a solve, or expressing new viewpoints. See 2259, 2255, 2240, 2232, it's like your goal is to taunt ABR and shade who still town reads that slot, and it doesn't serve a pro town agenda IMO

Well yes I am taunting him but I’m not directly aiming to shade those who defend him, as you can probably see with how I’m interacting with you. Drixx was just a knee-jerk reaction. As for why I’d taunt as town, I’m trying to learn how to have confidence and display an ego, which I’ve never tried before. So it probably looks scummy as hell for me historically but it’s the way I feel like my play needs to go in order to get better currently.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyway I’m all caught up with today’s posts and it’s bedtime for me so I’ll see you tomorrow (unless something take my time up unexpectedly again)

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma did BM ask you to take over the night shift in your scum daychat? You spend an awful lot of time trying to strategically maneuver the game state for a mislynch today.

It’s fun how hard you have to stretch to find a succinct scum play to put my actions into

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we lynch Battle Mage? I'm getting super duper scum vibes there.

You havent participated in the game at all, and then you come out with this?

Whats scummy, why, how?

What???

Despite being the hood rep Drixx hasn’t done anything?

Also @VD BM came forward with a case on ABR and it’s been me and BM vs. ABR and MT for a lot of it

[Gamma Emerald]

Also the key giving can be roleblocked so I don’t think we can try to conf anything off the key so never mind the idea of sparing ABR for the key

eh actually alright this is fair and I missed this when skimming earlier

What if the key is just a scum tool?

So they can put themselves into traps, have it announced but walk out while fooling everyone that theyre part of it.

It makes very little sense for his actual victims to have keys to the traps.

What if Gamma actually scumclaimed with his key shit?

No idea why he'd give it to ABR though, unless he's bussing here.

The way GE is approaching this feels like he's actively bussing, or trying to fire up a TvT

Not sure which it is exactly

Well I did notice the key was an outlier after seeing a few people claim limited immunity. But like I made a point to make sure I handed the key off and everyone was aware of it.

Also you’re kinda headpantsing here

[Gamma Emerald]

Vecna is your son,

He's not mine.

and has confirmed you town.

Feels good!

We're hopefully lynching ABR today.

VOTE: ABR

Until I get a grip on the game

Are you sure you want to vote with the scum so easily?

You should listen to reasonable players like MT, Drixx, GuiltyLion, and me.

Scum most likely is in BM/danny/gamma/blake.

“Reasonable players”

Seems more like “people who will do what I want”

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t, but he’s not a full scumread either currently, he’s towards the middle of the pack. Blake however I’m treating as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I am not certain about that. I could very well be wrong in my reads but I’m not going to doubt myself right now. And just because Danny might not be scum doesn’t mean my hood is clear.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm very curious why Albert B. Rampage has suddenly stopped tunneling me. I'd also like to know why Gamma Emerald is townbinning me.

Nothing I've done today necessitates or should change reads on me.

ABR stopped tunneling you because it became an inviable option and has since moved onto Danny who has greater support

And I have you townbinned because of ABR’s attempt to chain lynch you from D2.

[Gamma Emerald]

BTW I never get angry as scum, so it's ridiculous to me to take a 13 year meta, of me never losing my cool when I'm scum, and with that proven track record, people still think I can be scum here because "maybe on his 200th game he will do something different". It's clownish.

Gamma and Dany are lurkscum all the way to day 3 where they are more active to try to mislynch, they have done nothing town for the entire game.

Buddy that’s known as a trust tell. Not saying this means anything for your appearance, just stating the facts.

[Gamma Emerald]

and much more inclined to lynch whoever complies with this request

Is this directed towards that group of 4 or everyone?

[Gamma Emerald]

What if the key is just a scum tool?

So they can put themselves into traps, have it announced but walk out while fooling everyone that theyre part of it.

It makes very little sense for his actual victims to have keys to the traps.

What if Gamma actually scumclaimed with his key shit?

No idea why he'd give it to ABR though, unless he's bussing here.

The way GE is approaching this feels like he's actively bussing, or trying to fire up a TvT

Not sure which it is exactly

these are some good thoughts btw

Gamma I think you need to flavor claim and explain why you have a key to the traps

and I still don't really buy that ABR is your strongest townread at night to the point where you give him this key, and then you flip so casually/easily to voting him today and not even entertaining ideas of ways to leash him to try to handoff or use the key.

p-edit: sure, fair enough. More activity from slots I think are town is always good. I just don't suspect him at all right now.

I can do this: I am Detective Allison Kerry and the flavor regarding my key is that I have a brilliant scientific mind. I assume that means the key is if the character’s own design rather than one found somewhere.
Also reading the flavor also made me notice that the key is said to negate “all negative effects”.

As for why I changed my mind like I did, I had a plan regarding having ABR give the key to a trusted player (which would have been Vecna or VD following Vecna’s claim) but I never spoke up about it because I was too worried about scum interfering and when my doubts were confirmed I dropped the idea entirely. So I thought about it but it never bore fruit for me.
Also I was pretty much on a coin flip between ABR and BM but the fact ABR tied something to his survival made me feel more inclined to give it to him, in case scum wanted to take that road.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I didn’t have any read on him and didn’t think he would be night killed same for Gamma.

FYI in a vacuum this is good cop play so with Danny not really comprehending the game it seems I think his role usage is commendable

Now my concern regarding this claim is whether the flavor holds up, I’ll probably compare notes to Hectic’s flip if I decide to sleuth it out myself

[Gamma Emerald]

cop + cop + IC + IC = is too town-sided and can easily resolve itself for town after a couple days through dumb luck.

Someone is lying about their "innocents".

Who’s the other IC? If you mean VD that’s a different role, it’s essentially a Mason without the PT (it has a name but I don’t remember it).

[Gamma Emerald]

hmmm

I don't -love- Dany's claim bc if that's true that means I'm wildly reading the game wrong and scum-siding pretty hard right now - unless Gamma is Jigsaw

I do kinda buy two cops though, or at least don't feel that's inherently imbalanced.

I wanna see what MT/George think.

Both cops can only check 1/3 of the game and have a potential false positive
That kinda makes them less powerful than one would think

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually the fact that Jigsaw is essentially a godfather to cop roles combined with Danny’s second post in the PT (claiming Jigsaw is in our hood) makes his claim more believable

As for the original question about whether he indicated anything about his results there, he did not.

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually I don’t see where the hood-only clause is in Hectic’s role?

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually the fact that Jigsaw is essentially a godfather to cop roles combined with Danny’s second post in the PT (claiming Jigsaw is in our hood) makes his claim more believable

As for the original question about whether he indicated anything about his results there, he did not.

What do u mean by iDany claiming Jigsaw is in your PT? Was that a theory of his from his role, or does he know that somehow

Also there is no hood-only clause in hectic's role. Hectic is a detective. iDany is claiming to be like an internal services guy

Danny straight up said “Jigsaw is in here”, which is likely a conclusion based on his role, not actual certain info. However it lends credence to the claim.

[Gamma Emerald]

BTW I never get angry as scum, so it's ridiculous to me to take a 13 year meta, of me never losing my cool when I'm scum, and with that proven track record, people still think I can be scum here because "maybe on his 200th game he will do something different". It's clownish.

Gamma and Dany are lurkscum all the way to day 3 where they are more active to try to mislynch, they have done nothing town for the entire game.

Buddy that’s known as a trust tell. Not saying this means anything for your appearance, just stating the facts.

No it's not. If he had said "I always do X as Y, but never as Z" that's a trust tell. To violate the rule the player has to assert that they take a specific action only as a specific alignment, and then try and leverage that for gain.

This actually fails as a trust tell example for multiple reasons but I think that's the easiest one to spot.

“ABR rages as town”

“[ABR] never rages as scum”

Tell how that’s not the exact formula you described?

[Gamma Emerald]

Something is just not adding up.

Hectic flips cop
EJ flips innocent child
Vecna confirms vault as innocent
Danny claims cop

And you don’t stick to your guns on Danny

WHY

?