Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Morning Tweet]

Hi Hectic hi George hi Dany hi dave hi

inhale

hi BB hi Gamma

VOTE: Pine

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet committing around half a dozen greeting tells. Fortunately for her, two cancel out and she's on an even number.

I can't help myself!

Is anyone interested in playing the tape, or shall I?

[Morning Tweet]

The ramblings of a madman. Leave it in the dirt.

But what if there's some vaguely hidden clue on how to get out of this mess on there?

[Morning Tweet]

I will do my best Gamma!

VOTE: A50

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Battle Mage
Failed vote clearly scum fake-RVSing their partner

Before you go! What do you mean by this?

[Morning Tweet]

I promise you I am not into that kind of thing!

Cannot speak for Gamma, though.

[Morning Tweet]

This playerlist is sick.

Hi Rat-hating Bat.

I will never be able to live that down--!!!!!

And now we're in a TORTURE themed game, of all things

[Morning Tweet]

And now we're in a TORTURE themed game, of all things

Wipes away tears

.

Pops would be so proud.

Nervous shudders

The tape is still lying there...ominously.

Huh. So it appears Hectic's tape is a fraud.

Press play?

[Morning Tweet]

I was hesitant to pick up the tape because I was worried about something like that. Hopefully the tape just fell apart.

I think someone could say "Let's see if you can read me correctly this time" feasibly as both town or scum.

I understand why it sounds like they're implying they know the other person is town, but I would totally say something like that as town to somebody else. I wouldn't be thinking about it that hard.

[Morning Tweet]

Do NOT trust the Billy dolls

[Morning Tweet]

I'm a little concerned that you felt the need to lie to us, Detectic

The Civil Lying Committee gave me the green light in this case. It's like when you're having dinner with your local Godfather and the

rat

(spoilered for those sensitive to the word) in your midst guns him down.

gah! You are too kind to me!

This is the only method of influencing me that is more effective than [certain animal] waterboarding

[Morning Tweet]

Interesting Vecna chooses that kind of wording for farside. She seemed way less invested in the "odd humour" in comparison to the others

[Morning Tweet]

Gamma if I promise it's nothing AI will that make you feel better? pleeaassseee (；人；)

[Morning Tweet]

doesn't seem like such a safe environment to take a nap in (*-ω-)

aah.. but it can't be helped.

[Morning Tweet]

I love this guy!

[Morning Tweet]

Why meeee---!!!

[Morning Tweet]

(/ω＼) well then i sure hope there arent any deathtraps in here, that'd be a major bummer

[Morning Tweet]

Ah! I forgot about that. But what if it's, like, one of those doors with the shotguns hanging above it!? I can't dodge a gun, and definitely not multiple of them!! :C

[Morning Tweet]

big sigh of relief

Hide behind Gamma as he goes deeper in

Albert could be trying to run the show as scum-- but I'm inclined to think his motivations are for good, too

[Morning Tweet]

Am I reading this correctly? you drew my alignment from the use of the word "like"?

[Morning Tweet]

ah, okay! i wanted to discuss a little with my PT first

it looks like im going to be the ambassador for my PT!

[Morning Tweet]

ah, okay! i wanted to discuss a little with my PT first

it looks like im going to be the ambassador for my PT!

the scum PT?

(≧ω≦) no

[Morning Tweet]

ah, okay! i wanted to discuss a little with my PT first

it looks like im going to be the ambassador for my PT!

the scum PT?

(≧ω≦) no

what on earth is that??

you passed my test by the way well done. Evaded my clever trap!

i'm so smart!ヽ(>ω<)ノ

[Morning Tweet]

Am I reading this correctly? you drew my alignment from the use of the word "like"?

Not entirely. Seeing it gave me the urge to read your iso, and BM nailed the characterization of your interactions with ABR pretty well. This is furthered by you making post 207 after BM expressed his concerns but not responding to them.

I'm inclined to believe the support you've gotten regarding your tone from the other members of the town but I have three questions for you before I do.
1. Why didn't you respond to BM's thoughts of your interactions with ABR?
2. Why are you trying to buddy ABR? Do you have any reads that you want ABR's support to get hear or is it just to ensure your protection?
3. If this casual tone is something that you keep constant across all games, why do you choose to use it?

1. He said he thought it was scummy when I said "I love this guy!", because he perceived that as buddying-- I don't really.. see it that way. I do love the effort Albert is putting in!
2. this is a bit of a loaded question.. I'm not buddying ABR. I like him and what he's trying to get started regarding the neighbourhood nonsense (^ω^)
3. I played very seriously when I originally joined the site in 2016. It made me anxious and i had so little fun that I left the site. Now I'm having way more fun!

addendum: i don't equate a more casual playstyle with throwing the game, either. On day one especially, I try to find a few solid townreads. i think it's unreasonable for me to catch scum on the first day, so I *mostly* just find varying degrees of towniness and vote outside of that

[Morning Tweet]

I believe scum's fake claims are linked with there PT, so if it get's to late game and some one claims a flavor and that person should be in your respective hood they are probably scum.

That's such a random deduction to make! I mean.. I can't really argue with it though.

i actually kinda think Dany wouldn't say this as scum, since if he were scum, he'd know the answer to whether or not their fake claims align with the PTs, and be less likely to just randomly comment on it

[Morning Tweet]

I believe scum's fake claims are linked with there PT, so if it get's to late game and some one claims a flavor and that person should be in your respective hood they are probably scum.

That's such a random deduction to make! I mean.. I can't really argue with it though.

i actually kinda think Dany wouldn't say this as scum, since if he were scum, he'd know the answer to whether or not their fake claims align with the PTs, and be less likely to just randomly comment on it

well, I mean that's the point of a slip isn't it. He knows something only scum know.

I know what you're saying here, but I'd argue that as town, he has no reason at all to PRETEND to know what fakeclaim options scum have. As scum, it's just about conceivable that he would be sloppy enough to admit he knew this in the game.

I have no idea how you "can't really argue with it" - because if you're town, you have no idea if it's true or not.

Do you think it's possible that scum has been given fakeclaims that don't align with their PT?

[Morning Tweet]

For the game of mafia and having them as a confirmed team, some liberties are taken. Duh.

Never seen the most recent one though. Wonder how it was. Heard it brought back Kramer.

I liked it! It had some fun traps and the order of deaths was pleasantly harder to predict.

from a story standpoint you had to suspend your disbelief really hard though

[Morning Tweet]

Gamma why do I always scumread you

Town

What about this is town indicative-- like I believe him but why would he not say this as scum?

ABR is probably scum for the setup spec

VOTE: ABR

also curious to hear more about this

[Morning Tweet]

I pick up a gun and try to shoot

Battle Mage

with it. If that doesn't do anything, I'll snag a tool of investigation in the follow on chaos erupting from my attempted kill shot.

holy shit hahaha

VOTE: Battle Mage

[Morning Tweet]

I am inclined to believe Dany is town for the comment, but I'd like to hear more about it from him regardless.

Is anyone going to respond to Drixx's point about Battle hopping onto momo's "case" on me? Or are we just gonna keep talking about the joke readslist?

@ABR Be a bit careful, I feel it's likely theres at least one neighbourhood that is just town. But still, I'm sure the majority of them contain a scum ya

[Morning Tweet]

His reads seem phoned in. Why is GeorgeBailey a solid D1 townread? It doesn't make sense.

I've played with George a handful of times now, including a couple full games where he was both scum and town, and I've read him correctly in each. The fact that he was trying to meta off of my recent scumgame in order to townread me this early is a move I find less likely to come from scum, he would have no real incentive to lay the foundation for that read so early and especially in a way that would make it harder for him to walk back later if I become a viable mislynch.

I also liked his post 189 towards you, shows he was thinking critically about your set-up spec and willing to push back instead of sheeping you trying to play town leader.

this is a good analysis of George!

@ABR My PT has 3 members including myself

[Morning Tweet]

Scumreads: Guilty Lion, Vecna, Xtoxm, BBmolla

Huh? How come Xtoxm & BBmolla are in scumreads when they have claimed no to be in any hoods? I mean, wouldn't they get caught if there is a Traffic Analyst/PT Cop?

Well they can't exactly claim to be in one of the hoods if they're not in one

[Morning Tweet]

A50 and Morning Tweet, it's about time you choose a main wagon.

y

[Morning Tweet]

Not A50. I like how he commented on how he loves his role

I'd have to probably look kinda closer to sort between dave and GL. I'd say dave just off of gut and i agree with GL's analysis of george.

how'd you deduce BM is town?

[Morning Tweet]

Oh good, nice to see you VD!

[Morning Tweet]

Most likely not in cahoots w/ jigsaw //

GeorgeBailey
iDanyboy
GuiltyLion
Almost50
Albert B. Rampage

Inclined to think they won’t kill me //

momo
Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller

Don’t know what to think (that's kind of a lie) //

Battle Mage
Hectic
Drixx
pisskop
Elsa Jay

i REALLY don’t know what to think. Like literally. there’s nothing written down //

Pine
davesaz
farside
BBmolla
xtoxm
Blake Belladonna

Definitely (maybe) going to kill all of us //

Vecna. regardless of alignment

Spoiler: The fine details

GeorgeBailey’s town meta is more likely to be on display here, I think. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81655 here’s the mafia game for reference.

I am really leaning town on iDany’s fake claim comment, although I could see it being possible he’s scum without thinking of anything else to say other than obscure setup spec. My initial reaction was “there’s no way scum posts that”. I also think if he’s scum, he’s gonna receive flak from his scum partners rather than be defended by them.

I townlean on A50 for 285. It’s could potentially be a lot of information to divulge about your role, and I like how he says he loves it (≧∇≦)

Townlean GL mostly as a sheep to what George said in 199, as well as possibly something positive someone else said i think (??)

Townlean Albert for pure analytical power, even if it’s mostly spent on setup spec. Even though a lot of it is spent on the hoods, he’s given some time to reads as well. I don’t want to lynch this slot today anyway

--

Slight townlean momo for not sticking to his case on me when he received contradicting information in the form of “it’s just how i speak”, which pretty much sufficed

Slight townlean Gamma for being way more engaged than I’m used to. Unless that’s his scum meta. I haven’t checked.

VaultDweller’s catchup is good. Saying albert can be town for now, calling momo’s case weak and BM bad for piling on, iDany town… all things I could prolly be found saying either in thread or at least in my head at the times in thread he was reading over.

--

Why is everyone so sure BM is town? Help meee--!!

Hectic is Hectic (・ω <)☆

I’m really curious to hear more about people’s thoughts on Drixx, I think figuring him out could potentially be really important to solving this game. As for me I don’t know. Hehe!

Idk about pisskop. He’s certainly posting more than he did in fusion mafia (game I linked for George). But actually I think he stopped posting in that game mostly when it was pretty helpless for his chances of winning. I could see his posts being either way

Elsa Jay seems/seemed very fixated on the possibility of a traitor, i think. Disagree with the GL vote. I actually wasn’t pinged by the 3 + 2 scum comment, since that technically wouldn’t be multiball i could actually see split chats technically possible? I assume that he meant they would just have different chats to talk in or something, not that it’s multiball and they’re against each other. Seems like an interesting slot to look pressure. He seems a tinge frustrated, but i’m not sure what that means

--

Ok Vecna is one crazed individual. On surface level seems very scummy. Why does he say say he likes momo for *that* post? Why does he say farside brushes off suspicion with weird humour? The push on EJ i like though-- in 253. Even if I don’t really agree, that one post in particular seems like it may be coming from town. No comments on him vs. drixx at this point in time, please come back later (^ω^)

[Morning Tweet]

You should put your vote where your mouth is MT.

Vecna's in the bottom tier as a joke, sort of

I want to vote BM until someone explains their town read on him-- seriously there's like five people who townread BM but i dont think I've seen an explanation why

[Morning Tweet]

Why so many votes for me? I'm literally going out of my way to try and not be suspicious this time.

this is not something that someone going out of their way to not be suspicious would say

[Morning Tweet]

It is if they're naturally dramatic like I am

WIFOM

fair point to both!

I can understand the thought of going out of your way to trying not to be suspicious as a townie. even if it's traditionally more of a scum thing. thank you for the fun WIFOM to think about

[Morning Tweet]

what im trying to say is can u pls elaborate on BM if possible

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

oh bother (･ω＼*)

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Battle Mage

(/ω＼)

[Morning Tweet]

he also dodged talking about it and instead made a big deal out of the readslist part of what drixx said

even with the very best look, BM is still null town for me. i do not know what town indictative thing he did to garner a few TRs.

[Morning Tweet]

Holding back on what you say sounds like a good way to look like scum when you're town. If you say whatever comes to mind, people will realise you're town because off meta when you do it in enough games I reckon.

This is the only viable way to play mafia! taking time and stressing over whether or not to post your thoughts cause you're afraid how they're received is zero fun

[Morning Tweet]

If you're honest about your reaction here, you're just being emotional instead of strategic and rational.

Could you tell me why voting for Elsa is strategic and rational? I get what you're saying, but announcing to Elsa that I'm voting her for pressure doesnt seem like the most effective way of pressuing someone

[Morning Tweet]

Albert likes to be mysterious about his reads. I can appreciate that.

or maybe that's just regarding BM-- i dont know!

pedit: It's the latter ah!!!

[Morning Tweet]

The only thing stopping me from instantly voting Vecna is that, surely scum!him would hold himself back a little bit?

why does he do the things he does?! it's not helping him to say he likes the momo case without voting, or to double down on defending BM from Drixx for shaky reasons

[Morning Tweet]

Albert likes to be mysterious about his reads. I can appreciate that.

or maybe that's just regarding BM-- i dont know!

pedit: It's the latter ah!!!

Your vote boils down to "he voted me so I'm voting him", it's worst than unsubstantial, it's detrimental to the town win condition. You can't even deny it.

I know what OMGUS is. that's not what is at play here. i just want someone to give me a little bit of their time to tell me why they townread him (╥﹏╥)

Yes, i think his vote on me is bad-- he first says "I dig it" to momo's case (186), but later admits that his vote wasn't related to momo's case at all. So he goes back on what he says and instead changes his reasoning in 205. Okay, fine. Perhaps he realized how dumb the case was and wanted to justify himself, or maybe he's just messing around.

Next, he starts the fire on iDany in 226, which I disagree with, but okay sure. It could be scum attacking low-hanging fruit, or perhaps he genuinely thought he was scummy.

I'm not impressed by him lightly shading me in the last sentence of 244.

In 307, he totally ignores the first half of Drixx's case on him (that the follow-on vote with momo is bad) and just responds that he posted the playerlist as a joke. I can agree with BM that I'm not particularly bothered by him copying hectic's readlist idea for a joke, but that's really not what im concerned about

BM invalidates Drixx's reason for voting him again in 308 by explaining that he's being voted for a joke

And 315 is just a bad idea

i don't particularly like anything about what BM has done so far. No, it's not a perfect case, but he's the top person I want to vote in my pool of unsorteds. And theres like 3-5 people townreading him, so I was hoping someone would tell me why

[Morning Tweet]

You should put your vote where your mouth is MT.

Vecna's in the bottom tier as a joke, sort of

I want to vote BM until someone explains their town read on him-- seriously there's like five people who townread BM but i dont think I've seen an explanation why

Jesus Christ, this was earlier today!

So you don't understand why people think I'm town, hence you want to vote for me,

although you also think i'm town, but you will vote for me anyway.

what makes you think I townread you..?

he also dodged talking about it and instead made a big deal out of the readslist part of what drixx said

even with the very best look, BM is still

null town

for me. i do not know what town indictative thing he did to garner a few TRs.

oh

i meant that as "Even if I give him all the benefits of the doubt, he's only null at best". I didn't mean to add the word "town"

And you STILL don't respond to anything I or Drixx have said. Surely by reading 567 you could tell I don't townread you, right..?

[Morning Tweet]

well I hope I survive a bit longer in this game, partly because it's mostly about me, and partly because there's lots of interesting stuff to get into! However, I'm gonna have to hold back a little probably for a couple days due to combo of other games and work pressures. but kudos guys, you are making this v fun

Is this all you're gonna respond with? "I hope I survive"?

(ノ﹏ヽ) i could cry rn

The only thing stopping me from instantly voting Vecna is that, surely scum!him would hold himself back a little bit?

why does he do the things he does?! it's not helping him to say he likes the momo case without voting, or to double down on defending BM from Drixx for shaky reasons

I never said I liked (as in agree with) the momo case, I said I liked momo as in I thought the post itself made him town

That's a good point, i am inclined to think he's town from that + the reevaluation post too

[Morning Tweet]

well I hope I survive a bit longer in this game, partly because it's mostly about me, and partly because there's lots of interesting stuff to get into! However, I'm gonna have to hold back a little probably for a couple days due to combo of other games and work pressures. but kudos guys, you are making this v fun

Is this all you're gonna respond with? "I hope I survive"?

(ノ﹏ヽ) i could cry rn

erm….what? I'm VLA dude, gimme a break, I'm a key worker and shizz!

it's alright dude hehe

[Morning Tweet]

With greatest deference, you're all over the place - I have no idea if you think I'm town or scum from 1 post to the next!

I'll catch up properly when I have more time, don't sweat it!

i'm sorry I'm a little overdramatic! I'm basically just interested in what you have to say abt 567.

i don't mean to rush you though--!!

[Morning Tweet]

Digging Vault Dweller's posts

Do you still think Dany is the best lynch today? Would you be ready for him to be hammered if he were at L-1 now? How confident are you he will flip scum?

I'm not confident in anything this game

So you're saying that you know that Dany is scum?

Alright, you drive a hard bargain... you can have my vote.

VOTE: iDany

what

honestly same dude

[Morning Tweet]

that really didn't seem like a personal attack to me

[Morning Tweet]

I'm curious about BB and dave, as well.

I actually kinda thought Gamma was less scummy than I usually see him as, too

[Morning Tweet]

It'd depends-- different people have different views on the usefulness of hoods, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Morning Tweet]

A50 and MT also posting elsewhere on site.

ok?

BM still isn't back-- he's my favourite wagon. EJ, GL, and Vecna I'm not interested in lynching at all. especially Vecna.

I like farside's posting: I think there's a great chance that's there's one if not two scum in {Drixx, BM} and disagree with whoever was questioning that possibility earlier. Thinking BM tho

A50, George, and iDany are extremely high likelihood town. Vault, ABR, Gamma, momo, EJ, farside, and Vecna are my leans of varying degrees. I think i'm more or less sheeping someone on GL!town. ABR i seem to disagree with on like, everything but i see a higher chance of town than scum for his conviction towards everything

All that being said, I haven't done a real reread of this game and am mostly waiting for when i feel like it, so i didnt really want to pitch in yet. But there's where my head is at rn

[Morning Tweet]

On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?

I put all my thoughts on BM together in 567, which was a response to ABR calling the vote/wagon OMGUS

[Morning Tweet]

And I'm aware that doesn't look great but yeah, idk, I think most scum are in the background and it's mostly a bunch of townies yelling at each other atm

am i hiding in the background?

If I had a flip already I would, but frankly I'll just say nobody in the big hood should get lynched today. Seems important to keep around and I don't want the flavor of the hood already out there so that scum can flavorgame and PRs and shit.

I don't follow you. Why is the big hood more important to keep alive?

[Morning Tweet]

Because RN I'm making the assumption of there being 1 scum in said hood. Out of 7 people atleast.

With thoss 7 gone that leaves 4 more scum outta 14 remaining. I like the odds better of not getting a hood that isn't trying to solve itself yet anyway.

Don't you think it'd be more likely for the amount of scum in a hood to be proportional to how large the hood is? Say scum were distributed randomly within the hoods and outside of them -- there'd be more in the larger hoods, and less in the smaller ones.

i don't think we should lynch with regards to hoods without a good reason

[Morning Tweet]

i'm sorry!! (/ω＼*)

that's just how i've been approaching it in my mind so far

[Morning Tweet]

ouch ;(

[Morning Tweet]

I think 567 wins over 564, no question.

Davesaz is also scum. 567 is not a good case.

I'm not convinced you actually read the two posts that I pointed to.
564 is Albert saying that Tweet's case is

only

an OMGUS.
Tweet's 567 totally refutes Albert by showing that a non-OMGUS case

exists

.

My post says nothing about whether it's a good case. Albert was wrong is what my post says.

Wrong. It still is pretty much "his reasons for voting me are bad therefore he's scum + here's a timeline of things he posted which I disagree with but have no evidence to point to that makes him scum

can't even say you were wrong about it being only OMGUS =,=

Not only that, but you won't go into why Drixx and BM are town, either.

You want everyone to vote GL because you find him scummy and anyone who disagrees is obstructing the town's ability to lynch nonrandomly, but the only case i can see that you have against GL is that his reads were "phoned in" too early. It's not something that especially bothers me. correct me if im wrong

No bandwagons = no info day 2 after flips.

i see absolutely no reason we should bandwagon GL over the other two. You constantly argue as if we're against bandwagons, when the actual decision to make isn't "Do we bandwagon" vs. "Do we not bandwagon", it's "WHO do we bandwagon".

should the entire town sheep your reads just because you want to take a leading role?

[Morning Tweet]

You want to vote George? There's 21 players, every town player needs to open up their lynch pool. It takes a minimum of cooperation and compromise to win the day.

George reminds me of town!George from a previous game. I agree that for town to lynch we have to cooperate on something mutual

{A50, George, iDany, Vecna} are my favourite town, and I have some kinds of leans on {Vault, ABR, Gamma, momo, EJ, farside} town.

i suppose that you're vying for my vote because you townread me, which makes sense from a townie standpoint. The current main wagons are BM, Drixx, and EJ. The best way for me to free my vote up would be if i decided that the drixx/bm slots were not worthy of my vote anymore.

I am willing to work with you on a compromise, but the current wagons and our reads being clashing is unfortunate for that. is there anyone besides george you'd like a large wagon on?

pedit: BARRING BM/DRIXX, I WOULD WORK WITH YOU ON XTOM, DAVE, BB, HECTIC, or BLAKE

They're all similar levels of absence of town for me.

[Morning Tweet]

XTOM, DAVE, BB, HECTIC, or BLAKE

Anyone here except Hectic works for me, can you rank them for me please?

in order where scummiest is at the top

dave
BB
Xtom
Blake

For dave it's not even that i disagree with the content of his posts, he just seems different this game

[Morning Tweet]

Yeah, if you lead a dave bandwagon I will be on it, sure. Would love to get dave lynched.

i'll consider doing that after BM posts more so i can get a better read on him

I think ABR pushing Vecna but never voting him is scummy and would like to know if anyone agrees or disagrees. Its the strongest read I have so would like to get some discussion on it.

I agree with this, ABR's vote on me has felt extremely 'sticky', like he decided on it early on and refuses to see or engage with any evidence of me being town. I would expect a town player to at least have some doubt regarding my alignment and spend some time more seriously pursuing other leads, especially if they're so bored/against the current game state

i inclined to think that this is just the way he plays as town or scum, but i haven't checked his meta or anything. it's a fair observation at least

[Morning Tweet]

I can already tell you won't listen to my warning.

Very well, I will watch from afar.

I don't get it, are you saying there are certain players that can't be wagoned because of how they'll react? Or were we going about it in a toxic way?

pedit: I suppose.

Cross my heart I swear the same farside, Morning Tweet, girl scout's honor?

sure

VOTE: dave

let's be on our best behaviour!

[Morning Tweet]

See, THAT is the problem. You now say LYNCH when it started off with "building wagons". I am alright wagoning multiple people, but if I had a DayVig I'd most likely shoot between you and EJ as we stand.

So, are you building wagons to pressure people and get them to talk more, or are aiming to end the day?

You know, saying something like

I'm not trying to make him yield or sort him based on his reaction, I'm trying to create a wagon that has a good chance of flipping scum at the end of the day.

Could be a little bit of a white lie for pressuring purposes. at least that's how i interpreted it.

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

[Morning Tweet]

o.o

[Morning Tweet]

Why does what's happened here make you want to shoot GL? (not going to argue with the second choice)

That was actually directed at ABR not GL, but I didn't preview so I understand the confusion.

So, to be clear: my top two SRs are EJ & ABR

ahh that makes sense

The further we go the more i want to retract EJ town lean. but i fear i might be biased so im waiting on that

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads, town should expand lynchpool to 6.

but BM and Drixx can't be in the lynch pool for reasons i guess? .3.

Nah, ABR is probably town. Annoying as fuck and a little blind perhaps, but can't have everything.

yup

[Morning Tweet]

What he's obviously trying to say is.....dave will act poorly under pressure, resulting in a wagon that gathers steam on the slot to nearly become a self-fullfilling prophecy with very high chances of resulting in dave's lynch.

tldr: poor response, even more "lol u mad" votes -> lynch

That makes sense, but my problem with it is like, what happens when we scumread dave-- how are we supposed to lynch him then?

am i hiding in the background?

I think so

(´-ω-`)

pedit: I can agree with u on that at least, idk how people came up with an alignment for him already

[Morning Tweet]

Six scumreads is just BEGGING for scum to throw one or two buddies into the mix and then push four or five wagons. It's not rational or productive, and I refuse to indulge the question further.

PE: If you don't scumread someone but would be good lynching them, then you're a detriment to the game and should be a D1 policy lynch. This is not Russian Roulette, and we are not penguins shoving each other around on the ice floe until one of us falls in to confirm that there's a leopard seal down there.

lmao
pine is town

he's certainly right about scumreading at least. i think opposing ABR's wagon logic is a protown move, but i can see scum doing it too pretty much for that reason

[Morning Tweet]

BM, you got any rapid fire thoughts on the thread as of yet?

[Morning Tweet]

within next 12 hours, I will do something crazy in this place, it's ok to get excited!

ooh i'm getting excited already! \(≧∀≦)/

[Morning Tweet]

ABR or hectic might be scum-- not sure there yet

i was promised something exciting, BM! unless i missed it

[Morning Tweet]

Sorry I'm on the case now. Was just busy losing my other mafia games...

relatable

Blake seems like shed be super scary as scum from what im gathering, why does most of the game TL her?

[Morning Tweet]

I love it BM! Interesting that your gutread on Momo overrides the other scumleans, which have reasoning behind them. But i dont find that suspicious, im actually viewing that as a towny thing. i do feel like momo is one of those players who just kinda emits a scummy baseline regardless of alignment, though.

VOTE: Xtom

Pedit: maaan, am i gonna have to reevaluate iDany?

[Morning Tweet]

ABR or hectic might be scum-- not sure there yet

i was promised something exciting, BM! unless i missed it

Do you see people's reasons for calling me an Acolyte? It sounds like cutting corners and poor storytelling to me!

Morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

no i didnt see you do something specifically scummy, but i havent gotten my TR on you yet either :c The interaction between u and ABR i just think could be telling

@ABR wasn't there like, two people voting dave at that point? It wasn't going places like you make it out to have been. and you do like your reaction tests, cant i naked vote xtom if id like to?

[Morning Tweet]

ABR wasn't there like, two people voting dave at that point? It wasn't going places like you make it out to have been. and you do like your reaction tests, cant i naked vote xtom if id like to?

I think you and GL are allergic to big wagons.

Making a point for someone being scum (or intentionally saying nothing), then placing a few votes is enough for a reaction of some kind. you dont need to have L-1, critical hammer pressure every single wagon.

i get that you want to make a bunch of wagons that might go through, so you can draw associatives from who was willing to join and whatnot, but it seems a little unrealistic to me

[Morning Tweet]

ABR or hectic might be scum-- not sure there yet

i was promised something exciting, BM! unless i missed it

Do you see people's reasons for calling me an Acolyte? It sounds like cutting corners and poor storytelling to me!

Morning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

no i didnt see you do something specifically scummy, but i havent gotten my TR on you yet either :c The interaction between u and ABR i just think could be telling

@ABR wasn't there like, two people voting dave at that point? It wasn't going places like you make it out to have been. and you do like your reaction tests, cant i naked vote xtom if id like to?

I promise if we lynch Momo today, we can lynch xtoxm tomorrow - deal?

im not attached to the thought of lynching xtom. that being said, ill review hectics post on momo and prolly what others have said later when im off mobile.

i had momo as light town from the whole early game interaction with me, but he's not outside the realm of lynchability

[Morning Tweet]

Wait did people change their minds and decide to out hoods fully now?

Wait we did this? i dont think so..?

[Morning Tweet]

What did Hectic do that makes you feel he's scummier than other candidates

[Morning Tweet]

MorningTweet is SCUM LEAN - Lots of elaborate reads lists with very few actual suspects - what was the point?

finding town..? Quickie reads lists are kind of my thing, and theyre more about finding town than scum, since i find towntells a lot more realistic to find than scumtells on d1

[Morning Tweet]

he's pushing momo now

[Morning Tweet]

well do you have other reasons to justify continuing voting hectic after that, then?

[Morning Tweet]

Ooooo buzzwords and bitchness. A nerve had been hit.

i was kinda expecting that tbh

Yes Danyboy, why are you following the guy you CLAIM to suspect most, on his wagon of choice, rather than somebody you love and trust like me?

if i vote momo will u love me

[Morning Tweet]

Ooooo buzzwords and bitchness. A nerve had been hit.

i was kinda expecting that tbh

Yes Danyboy, why are you following the guy you CLAIM to suspect most, on his wagon of choice, rather than somebody you love and trust like me?

if i vote momo will u love me

Why were you expecting it?

From what ive noticed from other players reactions to momo early game, i felt like he'd probably be the type of player to have a negative response to being wagoned as either alignment

Hectic *could* be scum, but that's only because i dont have a townread on him, not for anything specifically. id ask for someone to explain it to me, but im going to reread for myself first. there better be something more than ABR saying "HECTIC CONFIRM SCUM"

[Morning Tweet]

oh lord, BM is openly scumclaiming

dude! i was just getting warmed up to him

[Morning Tweet]

Bro Momo let me talk to actual people I can debate with. I'll talk to you later.

@farside i dont know anything about his buzzword use. i mean this post by elsa. i just figured momo would be a bit of a prickly cactus to push is all

[Morning Tweet]

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

[Morning Tweet]

heyyee so about those wagons

I think there's definitely a lot of town on hectic but im not impressed by the "reasoning", if you can call it that. forgive me if i missed where it is, i checked ABR, A50, and like someone else's isos to try n find it

BM has suddenly revealed himself as town so that's cool

i think I learn a lot more from a momo flip than a hectic flip. i do find it interesting that hectic had somewhat of a read 180 on momo, but i also had that townlean on momo and never went to really reevaluate the slot so i can see it as a town move

VOTE: momo

[Morning Tweet]

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

Far side - instead of trying to work things out with me she is just returning the scumread, bc she expects to win out against me. Otherwise doesnt feel townie. I played with her a lot in the past.

Hectic - my strongest tr is vote there (a50) and abr who I also tr keeps asking me to vote there. Most of the wagon is my townread or townleans. At some point I need to compromise. I dont tr any of the slots on the alternate momo wagon.

I am also confused why you seem to put weight on the things I say, yet have me as a sr. It seems contradictory.

Cause id like to hear you say something, anything, so i have something to base a read off of

[Morning Tweet]

Can we not with the "if we lynch a scum inside of a hood, everyone else in the hood is confirmed town"? Especially if you've got like 7 people in a hood guys, its probably not going to hold true

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

Far side - instead of trying to work things out with me she is just returning the scumread, bc she expects to win out against me. Otherwise doesnt feel townie. I played with her a lot in the past.

Hectic - my strongest tr is vote there (a50) and abr who I also tr keeps asking me to vote there. Most of the wagon is my townread or townleans. At some point I need to compromise. I dont tr any of the slots on the alternate momo wagon.

I am also confused why you seem to put weight on the things I say, yet have me as a sr. It seems contradictory.

Cause id like to hear you say something, anything, so i have something to base a read off of

Xtoxm has posted plenty enough for you to have a read on him surely?

not really no. I think the only lurkier players at the time had been Pine, maybe George. That inital post was a response to Xtom being displeased with you scumreading him. But like, he hadn't posted enough to justify a townlean, thats for sure

I'm not running anyone else up today. If a doc is out there he can safely guard Hectic without worrying about being forced to claim. I'm ready to wrap this up and go to night if you are too xtoxm.

im not eager to rush onto the cw, tbh
with momo immediately clarifying that its not a 3p claim
1-shot bulletproof claim basically? thats a claim that at this point in the day almost certainly results in momo being lynched. anti-survivalistic claims dont *usually* come from scum..
i think BM is the more likely scum in your hood.

I can kinda see this reasoning. If momo were scum, i'd expect him to claim a stronger role than 1-shot BP. Especially when if he is scum, he's probably not an actual 1-shot BP and that's a fake claim. why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

still that doubt isn't strong enough for me to change. it does make me uneasy though

Feeling good on: GL, farside, BM, Vecna, Hectic, A50
Feeling good, but less so on: iDany, George, ABR

Vault, EJ, George, iDany are kinda slipping downwards on my list

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

[Morning Tweet]

Hectic is a bad wagon because of votes like these. No reasoning behind them, other than it's a good wagon.

Keep reading, it comes out as you go.

Let's hear what you saw then, Dave, now that we know the case doesn't actually exist. There's not going to be any continuity errors on my watch.

Was waiting to do this till I got to the end of catchup, but found a post that requires my attention.
UNVOTE:

Did you even bother to ISO me? I find it hard to believe you missed what I said. But anyway, I'll go back and point you to the post after I finish.

BM i think it's pretty clear dave isn't implying that he's scumreading/townreading Hectic for the "finding it hard to believe comment". it doesn't really seem related to the unvote-- which was surely because of the claim

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

eh not really, for scum in a hood, theres probably only one mod-provided safe flavour that would fit, maaaaybe 2

Oh yeah, i wasn't really thinking with the hood flavour factored in

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

You think he'd need to be provided that by the Mod?

It's a soft fakeclaim, anyone could make it up. Although I don't really know the flavour, so maybe that makes it trickier?

I kinda forgot about mod-provided fakeclaims, but ABR reminded me

if scum isn't provided fake claims, it'd be unfair for people who don't know saw characters. plus, they'd have to gamble that they choose a SAW flavour character that no one else has.

[Morning Tweet]

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

I dont know what u mean by this-- i mean that every role has a flavour character attached to it, so if you were to fake claim, you'd need a jigsaw character. But if you fake claim a jigsaw character that someone else has, then your claim would fail by default

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

oh, silly you (ﾉ>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

I dont know what u mean by this-- i mean that every role has a flavour character attached to it, so if you were to fake claim, you'd need a jigsaw character. But if you fake claim a jigsaw character that someone else has, then your claim would fail by default

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

oh, silly you (ﾉ>ω<)

I mean that scum could just have flavour which isn't obviously scum? So the flavour wouldn't give them away anyway?

Ah. So they'd use their real flavour name, but make up the role part.

i think the name might tie into the ability. Simone is a saw character that survived her trap, hence the trap proof ablity. not a lot of saw characters get out of traps

she had to cut her arm off to beat someone else in a contest to see how much they could cut off of their bodies (・・；)

[Morning Tweet]

So, dissenters of momo wagon, any chance that you consolidate on a counterwagon? I recommend EJ personally

[Morning Tweet]

in other news, I just won my first game in 10 years...

people are salty about it.

i just checked it-- and a perfect example that's why i hate the thought of being in lylos. if a townie messes up they're going to get absolutely destroyed by the dead

So, dissenters of momo wagon, any chance that you consolidate on a counterwagon? I recommend EJ personally

nah i like having elsa around

who instead

[Morning Tweet]

So i reread the end of the day from Hectics wagon to the lynch and came up with this. I can give my reasoning on any of them at request, probably

Spoiler: Reads

TOWN//
BM,

Hectic

, BBMolla, Xtoxm

TOWN LEANS//
Vecna, ABR, A50

TOWN INCLINED//
davesaz, George

NULL//
Gamma,

EJ

,

Pine

, Vault, Drixx, pisskop, Blake

CONFLICTED//
GuiltyLion, farside, iDany

iDany's attitude towards the Hectic wagon was bad. Naked vote, then he gave reasoning that didn't hold up, then he kept voting for unclear reasons. He also turned into a ghost when the tide shifted to momo. i think at first he was too hesistant to bus, and then later he just ended up not being able to think of how to contribute at all

VOTE: iDany

[Morning Tweet]

@MT Why is BB so high up on your town reads?

I wrote out a huge summary of the ending of day 1, encompassing Hectic and momo's wagons. These are BB's entries. He also did the hammer but im considering that NAI

1283 - BBmolla says that ABR’s push on hectic reminds him of stuff he makes up as scum to push a fake scumread
This is golden in hindsight, BBMolla pretty much perfectly sums up ABR's push on hectic

1286 - BBmolla calls Vecna’s scumlist (Hectic, BM, Blake, GE) really bad
I agreed on the Hectic and BM suspicions on that list being bad and not a great theory

1287 - BBMolla says he is picking a momo lynch over Hectic
He calls it very early that momo is a better wagon. it doesnt clear him, but it helps me a lot

1288 - BBmolla says Xtoxm isn’t even pretending not to be scum (lol)
I kinda felt the same way about Xtoxm at the time.

In addition to this stuff, it seems BBMolla gave us an announcement overnight. Shouldn't be alignment indictative but i think its slightly towny indictative tbh, just gut setup spec though

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: unvote, not lynching that claim. if hes scum hes locked himself into an awful claim.

Now I def SR Xtoxm

Am I dumb for thinking momo's claim seemed kinda weird for scum? I did forget that mod-provided fake claims were a thing I guess. Reason im saying this is I kinda townread Xtoxm now, mostly for the reason u SR him. Could be reverse psychology, but i wouldnt have thought scum would go for a defense that late

[Morning Tweet]

BM what happened in your game if i may ask?

[Morning Tweet]

ah i see. i figured scum already would know, but i am not really sure how they work

i am worried you and ABR lean on PTs too heavily. wagon analysis will probably be more useful imo. that being said, i dont really mind since the neighbourhoods arent being utilized for anything useful from what ive heard. which is understandable

[Morning Tweet]

Pine, Blake, and I are the only ones in my PT. rip pine

It'd be nice if someone consolidated the PT claims cause i'm getting a little mixed up-- i thought Vecna was in the momo/BM/ABR PT too for some reason. I can also consolidate them sometime later too

[Morning Tweet]

Because you think Jigsaw is a traitor? Or because you think he's not in a neighbourhood?

[Morning Tweet]

what's the full list of not-in-a-PT? I remember ABR had one early game it was like me, Vecna, Xtoxm, Molla? then didn't a50 and pisskop claim no hood as well? Honestly that seems like a fairly town list and not best odds of finding scum - I agree there's likely at least one scum there but there's no gimmes. I'd have to talk myself into voting like a50 or pisskop or Xtoxm and I have decent reasons for thinking all of them are town. Probably at this point if I had to, I'd go for a50 with the over-emphasis on Traitor spec - maybe crumbing traitor himself.

I agree that's not a very convincing list. I have reasons to TR all of them except pisskop. But I actually didn't read very heavily into the whole "pisskop maybe lying about his PT status" thing yesterday, and was more focused on the Hectic/momo wagons.

Because you think Jigsaw is a traitor? Or because you think he's not in a neighbourhood?

The latter - don't ask me about traitors *shrug* nothing so far has persuaded me to take about that one way or another.

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

[Morning Tweet]

Are you factoring in that Pine was in two hoods?

[Morning Tweet]

what's the full list of not-in-a-PT? I remember ABR had one early game it was like me, Vecna, Xtoxm, Molla? then didn't a50 and pisskop claim no hood as well? Honestly that seems like a fairly town list and not best odds of finding scum - I agree there's likely at least one scum there but there's no gimmes. I'd have to talk myself into voting like a50 or pisskop or Xtoxm and I have decent reasons for thinking all of them are town. Probably at this point if I had to, I'd go for a50 with the over-emphasis on Traitor spec - maybe crumbing traitor himself.

I agree that's not a very convincing list. I have reasons to TR all of them except pisskop. But I actually didn't read very heavily into the whole "pisskop maybe lying about his PT status" thing yesterday, and was more focused on the Hectic/momo wagons.

Because you think Jigsaw is a traitor? Or because you think he's not in a neighbourhood?

The latter - don't ask me about traitors *shrug* nothing so far has persuaded me to take about that one way or another.

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

Feels like a fit with the flavour - Jigsaw wouldn't be in the hood, he would have his followers doing that dirty work. And also makes sense with Farside's theory of Jigsaw being able to see the trap PTs. There must be a balance here. Jigsaw just being some goon in a PT seems weak.

Well that's not exactly hard logic, but I can kinda see it. Jigsaw hides in the background, watching his traps as they're played out. Like in the candle jelly room, he peered in through a hole in the wall. Even if he's not a traitor or is in a neighbourhood, I figure Jigsaw can probably listen in to the traps

[Morning Tweet]

Xtoxm looks so bad in hindsight that I actually do a 180 and can't believe he'd have acted how he did regarding the wagons, if he is scum

He pretty much did EXACTLY the scummiest things (Sheep vote Hectic -> Unvote after claim -> Hesitant about Momo -> Vote Momo once it's inevitable -> Unvote and try to defend momo at the end)

[Morning Tweet]

Whereas with iDany it's more like (Sheep vote Hectic -> I tell him his vote isn't valid -> eEeEeh I'ma keep voting anyway -> Disappear from thread when Momo is pressured). It's in line with what i'd expect scum!dany to do in response

[Morning Tweet]

Wow so basically i'm fucking dense

VOTE: Xtoxm

[Morning Tweet]

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

It's the Survivor PT, not the FBI. You bring up an interesting point about the 4th part though

PART ONE - As one of Jigsaw's Acolytes, you may discuss with other Acolytes here at all times: [REDACTED]

PART FOUR - You have many allies. [REDACTED]

perhaps someone more experienced than me would know what is typically put after something like "You have many allies", besides a mafia PT

[Morning Tweet]

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

It's the Survivor PT, not the FBI. You bring up an interesting point about the 4th part though

PART ONE - As one of Jigsaw's Acolytes, you may discuss with other Acolytes here at all times: [REDACTED]

PART FOUR - You have many allies. [REDACTED]

perhaps someone more experienced than me would know what is typically put after something like "You have many allies", besides a mafia PT

I've answered this already somewhere.

Oh, I kinda would have thought the allies would be listed in part of the message with the PT, but i can now see that is not the case

[Morning Tweet]

I don't know about you guilty, but that was a pretty traumatizing experience for me personally

[Morning Tweet]

I feel pretty strongly that scum is able to monitor us as we play our games. There wasn't anything that explicitly told me that they were listening in, though, it's just a theory a lot of people have expressed and i share it

I don't understand Battle Mage's reasoning to withhold what went on in the game.

Also me not understanding BM well led to a mislynch yesterday. I assumed he had something really solid on Xtoxm. I had one chance to unvote, but GL's 1718 theory was pretty reasonable. I could see a GF acting scummy on purpose to draw a clear.

@BM

Why do you think disclosing details of your game would hinder town, yet you also think that Jigsaw can likely listen in to the games? That would imply scum knows what goes on in them, so we might as well tell everybody.

[Morning Tweet]

Let's take our time today, yes? At least long enough for like, Drixx to post once would be nice. I also eagerly await Vecna's info.

[Morning Tweet]

A50 flipped as 'gritty', and it said any residual effects wont apply to him.

Do you have a modifier or post restriction or something?

No, as far as I know. I want to wait and see if BM has some insider info on why I shouldn't disclose details about the game, though.

I am slightly worried my head might blow off or something if I do. but that would have been a secret kept from me

[Morning Tweet]

One thing I don't understand is how it's determined who gets put into the games. Mine started within 15-20 minutes of the day 2 end which feels too fast for scum to be making decisions based on the day play. I do agree scum can likely monitor though - I was put into a PT to play the game and told to submit my choice in the PT.

I can confirm this. I got grabbed very very quickly after the day ended. I was also in a PT that someone easily could have been hiding in.

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey, GuiltyLion, BBMolla

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna

WEAK TOWN LEAN //
Gamma

NULL-TOWN //
VaultDweller,

A50

, pisskop

UNSURE //

Farside

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Where I ended up at after doing some ISOs n rereads. As always I feel very unconfident about the lower end, feel decent about the townreads.

[Morning Tweet]

I have to think the people placed in games is random or based on something arbitrary like wagon position or something, or at the very least decided by scum prior to the EOD. Because it's also odd Vecna is widely townread, claimed info, and wasn't put in a game, I would think if he's town he'd be a decently high priority kill for scum

I thought we had lost that information forever too

I figured scum has a list where they put individuals they want in traps at the top, and they can update the list throughout the day. Would have to check the wagons again to see if that has anything to do with it though

[Morning Tweet]

Actually yeah the people being put into games can't be any kind of wagon-orientation or randomness I don't think. Hectic was put into two games at once on night one. They really wanted him dead.

Not to mention, Elsa's game somehow was so dangerous that the choice she picked caused both her and Hectic to die. That game must have been quite powerful if THAT was the best choice she could make. I feel its very likely they handpicked it

[Morning Tweet]

So, why would they put elsa in 2 games? Seems like they wasted a kill

That's a good point. In my mind, I had figured Battle Mage had some say in who died in his game. Just a theory though, need to hear from him

[Morning Tweet]

Farside shot A50 using her role though

[Morning Tweet]

That is a pretty fun coincidence that she played the ice block trap and had a gun.

Your given a gun by scum theory is kinda what I was thinking with Battle Mage killing Elsa Jay

[Morning Tweet]

Due to the Choice made in a Game by Battle Mage last night, Elsa Jay died...again! Talk about overkill...

Due to the Choice made in a Game by farside22 last night, her head was crushed with ice blocks and she died!

Almost50 was shot in the head! He died!

Not only because Cakes didn't discredit it, but it's worded differently.

Elsa's death was caused by BM's game choice. He had options, and he picked for that one to happen. Whether it was between a limited pool of players, it was any player he wanted, it was him or elsa, etc., i dont know

A50's death was basically the same as "A50 died last night!". The first regular night kill, mod confirmed to come from the vig.

Makes me think scum is incapable of killing us in any way other than playing games. If scum had access to a night kill, then Cakes wouldn't have told us that farside was the one who shot A50. That's my thinking anyway

[Morning Tweet]

Makes me think scum is incapable of killing us in any way other than playing games. If scum had access to a night kill, then Cakes wouldn't have told us that farside was the one who shot A50. That's my thinking anyway

so, I share a lot of your thought process MT, and I agree with all your reasoning here, and I still think you're a solid townread.

That said - if scum have to put us in games to kill us, including solo games, doesn't that start to clear a lot of players if that's the only avenue scum have to kill? I would think at some point scum would need to put themselves in games, which is why I'm curious/waiting to hear how you survived your game with no apparent negative effects. I will def explain mine as well today, but hilariously sucks for scum lol if they thought they would kill both of us and we both avoided it and cleared ourselves as town in the process

I had a similar thought last night! Here's my notes I had on a post by blake:

Spoiler:

1687 - Blake gives out her master reads list. Her reasoning for townblocking farside is that she believes scum would put two players they want to get rid of with the confirmed cop. Blake reads that I also find interesting: Davesaz!town, Drixx!town, and Gamma!scum.

This strikes me as shaky reasoning for townreading farside. Scum could just as well put one of their own in the trap. Hell I’d expect it. Anyone from an outsiders perspective would know that Pine was 100% going to sacrifice himself in that trap. So why not stick a scum in the trap too?

I think it's likely they have to kill us with the games. However, from that deduction, surely scum can put themselves in the games too..? There's a possible issue ive found with scum putting themselves in the games, but i'll go that later once i talk about my game.

[Morning Tweet]

ABR being scum would explain why BM is still alive. iDanyboy being scum would explain why GuiltyLion, farside and I were tested (if im remembering d2 right)

Also thank you BM! You make a fair point about how discussing the game could out your role power. Although..i think scum probably has access to enough information to figure that stuff out anyway

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Last night

I had my head locked up in a glass box, slowly filling up with water. In a room all by myself with no one to help me. However, I was in a PT, so someone could have been watching me.

I had a choice-- live or die.

If i chose to escape, scum gets to rig two additional traps the next night. One to compensate for this night, plus a bonus trap.

Or I could choose to let myself go

As you can see, i mustered up enough strength to break myself free. Really hope that wasnt a bad move

It does leaves me with some questions.

Was this trap handpicked for me, with scum fully understanding how the choice worked? If so, was their desired outcome for me to die? I figure if they were going to use this type of trap, they'd place it on someone they mildly want to get rid of, but not enough to use something real strong on them.

Furthermore, what's stopping scum from just placing one of their own in this trap? Free extra traps, plus it makes that individual look better because they've been tested.

random thought I just had: What if one of the scums roles allows them to go in the traps? So the whole team cant do it, just one person for some towncred. That could be Amanda's ability for example.

[Morning Tweet]

But today we need to lynch ABR, and focus on working out which 2 of the 4 not in PT's are scum. I haven't got a strong view on that question yet.

My case on ABR is coming shortly - warning, it's long.

Now this is quite the turn of events

[Morning Tweet]

initial impression: the combination of your setup spec theorizing that there are 2 scum in the Survivor hood, plus ABR strongly wanting us to play as if there is 1 scum in each hood does look pretty bad on him.

will analyze your case better tomorrow

[Morning Tweet]

relying on info from your neighbourhood is responsible for both our pretty good day one performance (partly), as well as the botched d2. a mixed bag of results it is isnt it

[Morning Tweet]

BM is blacklisted from all my future games if he's town

>.>

Thinking ABR and BM both town.

VOTE: iDanyboy

[Morning Tweet]

I need help on why people find BBMolla so scummy. Also with GuiltyLion, I feel like i share the same opinion with him so often itd feel criminal to kill him.

also we both have shared game trauma now. Could be, as people said, a way for scum to claim towncred by surviving a game. maybe scum just wanted us dead

[Morning Tweet]

@ABR He has done nothing outside of playing the game and show complete respect for you as a player-- whereas you're attacking him personally. i dont get it

[Morning Tweet]

BM is blacklisted from all my future games if he's town

>.>

Thinking ABR and BM both town.

VOTE: iDanyboy

being a jerk doesn't make him town

Notwithstanding his hissy fit, I'd give him enough credit that, as town he would actually try and respond to the case against him, which he hasn't yet done.

fair enough, I'm very susceptible to AtE reactions. I'll keep thinking about it

[Morning Tweet]

Do you think being unwilling to respond to anything he says and calling it so stupid it's beneath you is going to ease his concerns?

[Morning Tweet]

Even if a case is laughably bad, why not show why it is? That's what I'd do in your situation-- Because if it's terrible, that means itd be easy to refute. Plus, youll get a better idea of why he suspects you if you actually talk about it

[Morning Tweet]

I can respond to the Flavour parts of your case. Vecna and ABR's characters do not conflict. ABR is the daughter of Jeff, who is teased to be captured by Jigsaw at the end of saw 3. Vecna is the child of the main police officer in Saw 2.

ABR's character has no involvement in the movies. She is abandoned by the writers I think. Vecnas character is being actively searched out by his father in Saw 2, it's one of the main plot points.

[Morning Tweet]

Townies get it wrong all the time. It's acceptable to mislynch town sometimes. I'm more annoyed that you and pisskop decided to end the day super early with the quickhammer.

[Morning Tweet]

I think its possible there are two children given theres like 21 ppl in this game. You run out of characters after a while.

And one child has no involvement in the movies, hence VT. The other has a lot of importantance, hence the role.

Now I dont deny the possibility it's a fake claim. Momo was a VT but claimed 1-shot BP. ABR could be a scum power role with a VT fake claim.

[Morning Tweet]

I was heavily under the impression yesterday that you both gave the Xtoxm lynch your full support.

[Morning Tweet]

BM, did ABR get angry with you in the PT as soon as the night started? Or was it after you said something about suspecting him

[Morning Tweet]

I town binned Xtoxm, misinterpreted BM as softing he had hard evidence against him so I joined, and then when I realized it wasnt the case I only had 1 chance to unvote and I didnt cause GL's godfather theory lined up pretty well with the case.

Pedit: I mean momo was a mafia goon.

[Morning Tweet]

You make a good point that Jeff's daughter isnt *really* a jigsaw survivor. But perhaps the flavour is being really lenient. I dont think ABR made up the claim, it's either his real role or his mod fakeclaim.

So whether or not it sounds fake is irrelevant. It's a real role, it just might not be the one he has

[Morning Tweet]

Your PT is fake-Simone (survived a jigsaw trap and attended survivors reunion), Perez (I forget this character actually but I know she survived a jigsaw trap), BattleMage, and supposedly Jeff's daughter?

I cannot deny that is weird. But ABR wouldn't make up a role and flavour name. he'd use what the mod gave him.

[Morning Tweet]

You make a good point that Jeff's daughter isnt *really* a jigsaw survivor. But perhaps the flavour is being really lenient. I dont think ABR made up the claim, it's either his real role or his mod fakeclaim.

So whether or not it sounds fake is irrelevant. It's a real role, it just might not be the one he has

The main point is I think there is 2 scum in the Survivor hood, one being Amanda Young.

Your PTs-attached-to-acolyte thing isnt a terrible theory. And I can see why ABR's behaviour is making it feel confirmed to you. But i do worry that you are getting locked into the theory with ABRs behaviour just reinforcing it for you.

I know Amanda Young is a jigsaw survivor. Logan Nelson is a confirmed scum from your PT. Did he survive a jigsaw trap before becoming an acolyte?

[Morning Tweet]

Why would he be given a fake claim that doesnt fit the PT? Momo's claim, Simone, fit with it

I agree that Amanda Young is likely in this game. And if character flavour is attached to PTs, itd make sense for her to be in the survivor PT.

Although I suppose it's also possible that Amanda is left out of the game as a red herring maybe.

Jigsaw/Dr Gordon/Hoffman/Logan Nelson/ ??

mm i cant think of another acolyte to fill the last spot besides amanda though

[Morning Tweet]

I can't wait to hear about his game, at least!

When i share a thought process with someone really consistently, i feel that's at least slightly town indictative. Plus it's protown from my perspective to have people that are like minded stay alive and help lynch people we agree on are scummy.

Theres always that paranoia, but i think at this stage i wouldn't want to lynch GL. Plus I do think its interesting that both he and I got thrown into games after both doing pretty much the same thing yesterday:

Vote iDany -> Resist Xtoxm for a little bit, until BM persuades us -> Reason for voting Xtoxm is that we trust BM knows something we dont about the hood

[Morning Tweet]

I agree that 0 scum in the 3 person, 2 scum in the 4, 1 scum in the 8, and 2 scum outside does sound like an elegant way to balance the neighbourhoods and scum.

Even so, I don't want to lean on that too heavily.

I'll have to do an evaluation of the 8 person hood. I strongly think Vault is town now. Vecna is probably town, but even if he's scum Vault should be town. Vecna i independently think is really towny though.

I dont actually remember who all is in the 8 person so ill have to work on looking closely at it later

[Morning Tweet]

During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true.

So these are ABR's supposed lies, ya? And from what ABR told you, you came up with this:

Spoiler: BM's Xtoxm case

Last night Xtoxm shared his fakeclaim (postman) with ABR to try and protect himself, whilst simultaneously trying to kill me. Sent him a love-letter, basically telling ABR how big and strong he is, and promised to sheep him forever (admittedly, this is how ABR described it ). Firstly, there's no way in hell anyone town is doing that. Secondly, the likelihood of scum not putting a trap on ABR last night is reasonably slim given his profile (and I believe he's close-to-confirmed town), so deduce that the reason they didn't is because Xtoxm was going to target him (because if ABR was trapped he couldn't have received the letter). Thirdly, Xtoxm randomly asked on Day 1 to be investigated by different types of cop, and I assume only Jigsaw would be cop-proof, and would have a big incentive for an early clear investigation. Plus Jigsaw is probably not in a PT, so that gives a 1/6 chance anyway, and Xtoxm is clearly the scummiest player of the 6 on his own merit. Others have already made the case on his Day 1 voting pattern being dreadful, but also keeping himself quiet enough to avoid much interest. His only post today is a memorial for Elsa who was subjected to 2 traps last night. Hence we should Vote: Xtoxm

And then ABR responded with this:

All this is true and BM's case has merit, I won't deny it.

I can go for Xtoxm if everyone promises me you will lynch Blake if I die or I will endeavor to make you see Blake is scum for the rest of Day 2.

It sounds to me like all ABR did was tell you that Xtoxm sent him a love letter. Which we now know is true. And you made all the connections yourself. Now I dont blame you for the connections you drew, although I dont think ABR misfed you information here

[Morning Tweet]

ABR and BM have very similar posting styles so I realy don't get this hate. BM is playing the same as he did in day 1 and he loved him there.

VOTE: ABR

Your observation is correct and I agree, however, wheres the justification for the vote? Do you think that ABR being irrational towards BM after BM pressures him is a scumtell?

it reads to me that you're joining the wagon for barely surface level reasons. Yes ABR is acting different towards BM now. Why does that make ABR scum

[Morning Tweet]

Mailman is a role that sends a letter to somebody else. Informant is a made up role name for this game. I think.

ABR wouldn't make up the contents of the letter. Xtoxm could have pointed out that he was lying.

[Morning Tweet]

I think the biggest part of your case that interests me is how if Amanda Young is in this game, she'd need to be in the Survivor hood. If momo's flip is any indication, anyway. His real role (Logan) and his fake role (Simone) were both survivors.

AH. I just realized. Amanda isnt a Jigsaw survivor. Not in the way your hood implies it. Your hood is a scene from Saw 3D. It's a bunch of people sitting in chairs at a church in a kind of support group.

https://sawfilms.fandom.com/wiki/Jigsaw_Survivor_Group

Logan Nelson is not a jigsaw survivor as described by your hood. Simone is.

BM, are you on this list of characters?

Spoiler:

Bobby Dagen
Simone
Mallick
Emily
Brad
Ryan
Tara Abbott
Lawrence Gordon
Addy
Sidney

If you are not, then the flavour is not perfectly linked. Thereby meaning ABR's claim (Corlett Denlon) not being linked doesnt matter.

[Morning Tweet]

Momo's role was: Logan Nelson, a "Jigsaw Survivor" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

Logan Nelson was not a Jigsaw Survivor (as described in Saw 3D). This means scum can masquerade as a character in any other hood. You cannot link the flavour of the acolytes up with the hood. Only possibly their fakeclaims, since Simone IS a jigsaw survivor in Saw 3D.

[Morning Tweet]

Pine's character is Lindsey Perez, a Jigsaw Survivor FBI Agent.

Perez was injured by a jigsaw trap while investigating a crime scene. She was never tested by jigsaw, nor was she in the support grpup, but she is a member of the survivor PT.

This kind of leniency means that Corlett Denlon could feasibly be put in the Survivor PT as well. You dont even have to be tested by Jigsaw to be put in the Jigsaw survivor PT.

Corlett was kidnapped by Jigsaw and that is all. Perez was injured at a jigsaw crime scene and that is all. Neither fit with the saw 3d flavour. The claim is possible.

[Morning Tweet]

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

[Morning Tweet]

It not encompassing Perez proves to me that Corbett is a feasible claim. Even if it werent a support group, Perez never played a Jigsaw game. Calling her a survivor is a stretch. Just like calling Corbett one is a stretch.

[Morning Tweet]

It not encompassing Perez proves to me that Corbett is a feasible claim. Even if it werent a support group, Perez never played a Jigsaw game. Calling her a survivor is a stretch. Just like calling Corbett one is a stretch.

As per previous post, I agree to a point, but they aren't a stretch to the same degree. Perez got hurt by, but survived a trap, Corbett never faced a trap. And in any case, far more likely that Amanda or the Dr are in the hood - otherwise where would they go flavour-wise? All not in PTs?

I don't think the Acolytes are locked into hoods via the hood's flavour.

Momo would have been Doctor Gordon, not Logan Nelson.

[Morning Tweet]

If the members of your hood are not all Jigsaw survivors (Perez confirmed not really to be), then why would the scumteam have to obey the neighbourhoods? I think Logan is already an example of scum not having to obey it.

You are right that Corbett is irrelevant now. But it's not her vs. Amanda. Amanda could be in any PT. Not just the survivor one. thats what I'm getting at.

Imagine this: Amanda's role could be: You are Amanda Young, a "FBI Member" aligned with Jigsaw's Acolytes

Then below that, they are given a FBI fakeclaim.

This is what I think happened in momo/Logan's case.

[Morning Tweet]

All I gotta say is

if iDany isnt scum this game, ill actually lose all hope. All he has done is naked vote bad wagons without giving a reason. If he gives a reason, it's discredited instantly (Hectic). He never responds to our pressure. Scum kills off all the people who vote him. His lynch is derailed to Xtoxm. etc etc etc

[Morning Tweet]

The other thing to note is, Logan Nelson was flipped as a "Jigsaw Survivor". Because his identity was linked to his hood, and the Mod deemed him to be a Jigsaw Survivor. So I don't think you'll see Amanda Young flipping in the 8-person cop hood as "drug addict hanging out at the police HQ". Is it possible? Yes. Is there any reason to believe it? No.

Logan was flipped as "Jigsaw Survivor" in quotes because he was masquerading as one. He was pretending to be Simone, an actual Jigsaw Survivor. His role was just that. A neighbour.

He's not listed as "Jigsaw Survivor" (in QUOTES) because he's an actual Jigsaw survivor. He's an acolyte! His role was being in the survivor neighbourhood, that's all

[Morning Tweet]

All I gotta say is

if iDany isnt scum this game, ill actually lose all hope. All he has done is naked vote bad wagons without giving a reason. If he gives a reason, it's discredited instantly (Hectic). He never responds to our pressure. Scum kills off all the people who vote him. His lynch is derailed to Xtoxm. etc etc etc

I don't think any scumteam with 4 people is killing people because they are suspicious of Danyboy. No offence to the guy, but I don't think scums chances live-and-die on whether he survives 1 extra day.

What i mean is it seems so unlikely that he's town, it seems impossible for him to be anything but scum. So if he's town, then my read is horribly wrong.

I think whether or not iDany is scum, killing off people who were hesitant to sheep the town!Xtoxm wagon is a good move. Easier to sway town's votes that way.

[Morning Tweet]

BM I think the heart of our disagreement is whether or not the Acolytes real flavour name aligns with the hood status or not.

Lynching ABR wouldn't solve that mystery unless he flips scum. If he flips Corbett, we learn nothing.

[Morning Tweet]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

[Morning Tweet]

I do not want to use our lynch today to find out if your theory is maybe right!!

Remember the whole 2 extra traps things tonight? Last night we narrowly escaped from having too many die. Now we're in trouble. We only have so many mislynches, and as long as I dont see ABR more likely scum than iDany, i dont want to vote him.

[Morning Tweet]

He blew up over the fact I voted for him and he thought he was going to be lynched based on my case. That is an incredible level of defensiveness - not sure if that features in his guide?

ABR pretty much said "I'll be surprised if even one townie is stupid enough to entertain this"

The idea that he feels he is likely to be lynched is something you've deduced yourself, he has not given me that impression

[Morning Tweet]

(´-ω-｀) neither of them are scum gamma do not worry

Your key hasnt been used, ABR has never been tested

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

[Morning Tweet]

I think what's been most interesting to me is that there are a great deal of people calling for BBMolla and Gamma's heads.

I have always had dave, Drixx, Blake, iDany at the bottom of my own list personally. I found admittedly not huge reasons to townread Gamma and BB. What is your guys reasons for suspecting BB/Gamma?

[Morning Tweet]

John Kramer would be a terrible fake claim for Jigsaw. Cause John Kramer IS jigsaw.

Jigsaw's fakeclaim would be an entirely random victim or other side character somewhere in the movies

[Morning Tweet]

John Kramer would be a terrible fake claim for Jigsaw. Cause John Kramer IS jigsaw.

Jigsaw's fakeclaim would be an entirely random victim or other side character somewhere in the movies

I already accounted for that.

Like that felt needlessly rude.

my bad, i read it too quickly and misread what you said

[Morning Tweet]

Yep I said this Day 2. It's a strong argument for lynching outside of the hoods to try and hit Jigsaw. If we did that, there would be 3 candidates:

BBmolla
Pisskop
GuiltyLion

One of those is Jigsaw. In theory, you could also put Vecna in there, but he has claimed and it seems pretty plausible.

Keep in mind one of these three is only jigsaw if your theory is correct, which we cant know yet
(* >ω<)

What do you think about letting ABR hand off the key tonight before lynching him another time?

pedit: nevermind

[Morning Tweet]

BM if ABR is town, we're gonna lose a key, another day, several ppl die, and quite frankly it doesnt feel like we'd learn a lot because we havent yet considered the other options

i beg u to consider possibly letting him live an additional day to hand the key off
(人･ω･)

[Morning Tweet]

I felt like Gamma got mentioned by more than a few ppl but maybe im making that up. BB definitely was

[Morning Tweet]

The key is secondary. Honestly, if he is scum and has a key, giving him a night to pass it on (to his scumbuddies) isnt going to help.

Yeah true

what i mean is kinda think the risk of lynching ABR is starting to add up to me not wanting to lynch him due to the amount of downsides itd have if he's town. which is kinda what im thinking

[Morning Tweet]

This list is particularly odd, coming 1 page before you note that the key a motivating factor to dissuade you from an ABR lynch today. What happened in that 1 page to make you go from having ABR as "heavy town lean" to needing to find a reason

not

to lynch him?

Spoiler: new reads

TOWN BLOCK //
Battle Mage

HEAVY TOWN LEAN //
ABR, GeorgeBailey,

VaultDweller

MEDIUM TOWN LEAN //
Vecna,

GuiltyLion

WEAK TOWN LEAN //

BBMolla

Unsure //
pisskop,

Gamma

SOMEWHAT BAD LOOKS //
Blake, Davesaz, Drixx

TIME-OUT //
iDanyboy

Changes made in bold. No big analysis done here, just reaction changes made in light of recent events.

We need new material aside from BM's ABR case and my iDanyboy case. All you need to know about those should be in the last few pages (in theory). Let's have another multidimentional day like d1, rather than d2

im gonna need you to run that one by me again.

you're surprised I'm defending someone i think is probably town?

Originally I thought there was some merit to your case, like the part around how 2 scum in survivor neighbourhood would explain why he wants to say theres 1 scum in each neighbourhood, but i wanted to play ABR's lawyer cause he didnt seem like he was gonna defend himself. I found reasons to defend against the flavour portions of your case. I also believe that momos flip suggests that the acolytes are not locked into their own PTs.

ABR's reaction has kinda also made me think he's town. Again, im very susceptible to AtE though.

Pedit: Are you guys forgetting that momo literally flipped as a neighbour without powers?

[Morning Tweet]

guys. seriously. ABR is either using a mod fake claim of survivor neighbour, or his actual role is survivor neighbour. do not jump on him because you think the role is fake. it is not.

[Morning Tweet]

I struggle to believe that you guys really think ABR slipped and accidentally claimed VT or something. BM, didn't we already discuss that?

[Morning Tweet]

@BM I think you're misinterpreting something I said, cause i dont really know what you're getting at. I expressed more of a willingness to lynch ABR after i learned he got a key? If it's not a bother, could you quote where i did that so i can see

[Morning Tweet]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

[Morning Tweet]

Also, this reminds me that they only get a flavour fakeclaim. They have to make up the rest themselves. So the mod is not responsble for coming up with abilities for them.

wait what?

How do you know this? That could change a lot, but i assumed that isnt the case?

[Morning Tweet]

@Vecna Blake and I discussed momo's rolecard in our PT.

The mod clarified it for us, here's a paraphrase:

Momo's role was jigsaw survivor, meaning he had access to the jigsaw survivor chat. Everything else on the card was relating to his faction, not his role.

He clarified this for us because its public info on the role card.

Momo was a mafia neighbour. His fake claim was Town 1-shot trapproof neighbour.

[Morning Tweet]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

[Morning Tweet]

I can't combat certain parts cause some are PT related. I mostly focused on the flavour and setup spec cause i know saw pretty decently.

seriously, his case has like 9 parts. Its scummy that I focus on certain things? Only some of them interest me to talk about

Not enough honey. Sure you may only take interest in certain parts and some things may be hard to discuss due to the closed-door nature of the topic but I still think your approach is scummy. You are finding the one or two things that don’t quite fit and arguing that those are enough reason to not lynch ABR. And the turnaround BM pointed out feeds into that, as well as fitting a personal scum tell I’ve developed, where scum will latch onto a point that a townie proposes if it sounds better than what they’re currently using for logic, regardless of optics. I suggested that we spare ABR because of the key and you suddenly pick up on that as your key (no pun intended) reason to not lynch ABR.

So BM there’s a reason what you observed happened.

There's no turnaround, he's misunderstanding me somehow.. the key just further put ABR in my do not lynch pile. It is not my only defense. I feel like this should have been obvious since I've been talking abt it for so many pages

[Morning Tweet]

@BM You're seriously misinterpreting me. The main thing holding me back from ABRs lynch is not the key. The key is an extra block added to the tower of reasons in my head for me not wanting to lynch him

See this is exactly what I felt was the case. It’s not the only thing but it

looked like it

because MT latched onto it in the way scum do.

So you think I would only use the key as an extra incentive not to lynch ABR if i were scum

(>﹏<) ok..

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

[Morning Tweet]

@BM No, blake and I had confirmation that momo was a mafia neighbour. Didnt ask mod about the fake claim tho, so vecnas assertion was a surprise to me

[Morning Tweet]

In reality, i feel theres no stopping BM's wrath at this point and i wanted to see if the key would convince BM to wait 1 extra day. cause i wanna lynch elsewhere

Yes I felt the same yesterday, that

no matter what I tried to do to stop xtoxm from being lynched, people just werent going to listen and it would be a waste of time.

And I didn't know 100% if he was town, of course. The more bm posted the more I wanted to believe it and confbiased myself lazily.

I assume you're reading this, MorningTweet?

Hehe (* >ω<)

It is a little tempting just to give in, you are such a relentless force. Gut says to do otherwise though

[Morning Tweet]

BM I think the heart of our disagreement is whether or not the Acolytes real flavour name aligns with the hood status or not.

Lynching ABR wouldn't solve that mystery unless he flips scum. If he flips Corbett, we learn nothing.

That is a weak sauce reason to not lynch ABR imo

Plus it’s

extremely

circumstantial evidence.

That was a response to BM saying that "Its worth a shot" to lynch ABR to confirm or not confirm his theory.

so.... yeah it is a good reason within that context.

[Morning Tweet]

1. It's game breaking if the Acolytes are all in their real PTs

2. Logan wasnt in the support group. Which is your theming. You have a picture of chairs in a circle or something, ya? That's your theme, and only you and momo's fake role fit with it.

That fact that Corbett and Perez don't align with this theming just makes it even more apparent that the hoods dont perfectly align with role flavour. Corbett IS either ABRs real role or his fakeclaim. Corbett is considered a Jigsaw Survivor. It doesnt matter if Logan is considered a jigsaw survivor or not-- any character can pass as one if Corbett can

1: no it’s not, I just had a Mafia game get broken by the setup and that wouldn’t do it. There’s enough possible scum flavors for it to be a challenge to hunt by flavor.

2: You don’t know that for certain, or do you?

i do, Pine told me in our PT. Perez and Logan do not fit with that theme. BM's role and Simone do.

[Morning Tweet]

Oh also @Gamma

There are only 5 jigsaw acolytes that I know of: Gordon, Hoffman, Jigsaw, Amanda, and Logan. And there are 5 scum in this game.

Not enough scum flavour. So I do think it's a bit broken.

[Morning Tweet]

No stopping my wrath! It's a rollercoaster, and nobody wants to get off!

I seriously have no idea why you are so attached to ABR....

I want off! help--!!!!!

[Morning Tweet]

Pine told me himself that your PT is themed like a support group.

I know one other person remains from this group. Whomever that is, could you confirm this as well as possibly expand on it?

It's only me and ABR left from that, and I've confirmed that (from recollection, and because why would Pine lie). It doesn't mean anything though - MT's theory is that because it has the same theme which was used in 1 Saw film, everyone in the hood should be linked to that 1 film, whereas I believe Jigsaw Survivor could come from any film in the franchise.

We know Perez is considered a Jigsaw Survivor, and Corbett Denton counts as one too. Neither of them are jigsaw survivors.

That alone should tell you that you are relying too heavily on flavour

[Morning Tweet]

BM i promise you that if I felt the same way you do about ABR being confirmed scum, i wouldnt be defending him. Also, let me respond to Gammas post myself, you talking for me is not gonna help

[Morning Tweet]

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

wtf lol

[Morning Tweet]

In my heart im not 100% that ABR is town. The possibility he is scum is there. Your case has not swayed me. He could he scum and my defense of his case I would say is still valid.

My current take on the situation is that ABR is town, and we should be focusing on different players. im gonna get clowned on really hard if ABR is scum, but like neither you nor Gamma have convinced me he is scum.

And repeating it over and over again is not helping me

@Gamma Pine's role, Agent Perez, has no involvement with a jigsaw game. She got injured by a doll exploding while she was investigating a crime scene though.

Corbett Denlon (ABR claim) is a little girl kidnapped by jigsaw.

[Morning Tweet]

@BM What acolytes are there besides those five? Apologies if I forgot. I remember you mentioning Jigsaws wife. I dont think she's an acolyte though. Pretty sure she got killed by a game actually

[Morning Tweet]

This is what I don't understand about you. At this point, it's beyond obvious that ABR is scum, and you know it, in your head, in your heart. So why do you resist? What do you know that we don't? It really stands out to me, you're posturing hard against the tide here.

wtf lol

BM i promise you that if I felt the same way you do about ABR being confirmed scum, i wouldnt be defending him. Also, let me respond to Gammas post myself, you talking for me is not gonna help

But that's my point. I don't believe you, as town, could honestly still be defending him now. And even referring to yourself as defending him. It completely blows my mind...

As before, I guess that could mean if ABR is town, you are scum? I don't think you're doing this as his buddy. But you're giving me the heebyjeebies here.

You said the same darned thing to Blake yesterday, and see where that got ya!

You are so confident in your own reads that the act of me defending ABR implicates that I cannot be town for you, on the basis that ABR is so scummy it's impossible for town to see

Try to see my town perspective here, please. It's going to be impossible to have a meaningful discussion if you think that your case is so solid that town is incapable of doubting it.