Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Bingle]

Hey, tell me whats going on.

[Bingle]

I've already seen that my slot is mostly claimed, eddie.

[Bingle]

It's the discussion on literally this page. It is an accurate claim.

[Bingle]

You have, Eddie. I'm a public Jingle alt.

[Bingle]

I think our last game together was smith's cop mafia tho, so it's been a while.

[Bingle]

tl;dr

Not great at getting townread as town, but if I last long enough I frequently blow open setups. I'm hit-and-miss as mafia, but when I hit it tends to be spectacular. Vastly more useful mechanically than reads wise, but I'm not awful at late game reads and I'm usually pretty good at listening to people with a better handle of the game than me.

Most of the people in this list have a fairly positive opinion of my play, so Vecna's comment isn't undeserved.

[Bingle]

Give scum the hard choice of whether they wanna let him live for another 2 nights

With the current pace of night kills, unless I'm miscounting tomorrow is lylo if we mislynch today...

Press X to Doubt.

2 myslynches to MYLO is insane balance wise, and a two shot vig died last night, so presumably we have fewer KPN now. I'm not sure why you even say this.

[Bingle]

Any chance I can get access to the consensus reads list and the most recent claims list?

Dave's in the game so the latter exists. I'd be shocked if there weren't reads lists on a 100 page game.

[Bingle]

Has anyone described the trap process? Do we know what that involves?

Can someone explain to me why they're wagoning ABR after what looks like a pretty solid not a bus from ABR in a three person hood with momo? That should pretty much make him town, right?

[Bingle]

Oh,

UNVOTE:

[Bingle]

Is this more or less accurate? I got this from mod ISO and a single BB post, so... Fleshing out would be appreciated.

Police Hood:

Hectic

Farside22

Bingle

GE

Drixx
VD
Dave
EC

Survivor Hood:

momo

Pine

ABR

FBI Hood:

Pine

No Hood:

A50

BBmolla

Xtoxm

Guilty Lion


Unspecified Hood:

PK
BM
Vecna
MT
FB

Death By Trap:

N1

Pine

->

Farside22

and

Hectic

EJ

->

EJ

; Battle Mage

Hectic

->

EJ

N2

farside22

->

farside22

GL and MT made nothing happen. How?
What was BM's Choice?
Did farside go into the choice she made N1?

[Bingle]

Oh, BM is in Survivor hood. missed that earlier.

Looking for BM and Pine's reactions to ABR's claim circa 1325 now.

[Bingle]

Okay, so what hood are Vecna/PK in?

[Bingle]

GE
Drixx
VD
Dave
EC

Purely from setup spec, this list should have 1-2 scum in it. I'd prefer lynching from here.

EC looks town. GE can only be one of the two scum (Jigsaw himself). I'm going to operate on the assumption that ABR/BM is TvT until I see compelling information otherwise.

If BM is town, then that means every trap participant on N1 was town. Which is interesting. I doubt there's more than one scum in the N2 trap survivors unless this was a major point of discussion yesterday. Tonight, people in traps should discuss reads as well as traps if possible and come into the thread with a summary of those reads.

We haven't seen anywhere near enough town power for scum to have 3 kills, particularly given knowledge of a godfather.

ABR's back off of Hectic onto momo doesn't look like a bus at all. It looks like ABR being cocky, sure, but that's not an AI condition.

[Bingle]

I see pk claimed no hood just after ABR expressed a murderboner for the hoodless. That's probably +town equity.

[Bingle]

BB is a claimed reporter, which is a bad role for scum to claim (removes all utility from the role itself) and so not on my lynch table today.

[Bingle]

Oh, right. Vecna inno'd VD. That's helpful.

Current D3 lynchpool imo should be {Bingle, Drixx, Dave, EC}

[Bingle]

JSYK I'm normally a consumer of those summaries, not the one who makes them. There are occasional exceptions when I update one which is probably what you're remembering.

I seem to remember you frequently asking for them and knowing where they are, at the least. You also tend to be aware enough of claims to help when things get missed/overlooked, given you're a mechanical player.

[Bingle]

they made a choice to leave the trap and suffer the negative consequences

Lowkey I'm not sure I believe this is real, btw.

Mod posts suggest that farside's suicide had future consequences and assuming traps are scum controlled and not some random function that would mean MT would know and be able to claim those consequences in advance as a reason for her leaving the trap yesterday. I also don't believe scum-in-traps would be able to choose a crippling option for town in exchange for their own life, because that's just stupid.

I do agree that scum are likely fully capable of being in the traps (and knowing in advance how to survive them). There's also a small possibility that some percentage of people in traps have to have not previously been in traps given the flavor. (Repeated references to everyone being tested.)

[Bingle]

I see I took too long to write that and PK's hoodlessness came out about 4 different ways.

What is a reporter?

Given the discussion I've been assuming it is like variant 3 from Reporter but could be wrong.

Yes. A role who is partially responsible for flavor. In this case, BB made a post through the mod at Start of Day 2. (Or convincingly faked it.) It's functionally a fruit vendor for town power wise (confirmable role but not alignment) and has less utility than a messenger. For scum, he could have posted something like (PERSON was seen skulking around the abandoned warehouses last night) and either gotten a fakeguilty without blowback or at least provided a huge red herring for town to chase our tails over.

The fact it wasn't used that way is enough to say the role is likely a town one for the moment.

[Bingle]

The loudspeaker crackles back on.
"farside22 decided not to play my Game. She did not value her life. As a consequence, it has been taken from her. Her selfish decision to take another life instead of allowing him to make his own Choice shows her weakness.
A weakness all of you have. It only a matter of time before everyone else has been tested..."

[Bingle]

I really don't like 2682.

That post pings really hard.

[Bingle]

I really don't like 2682.

That post pings really hard.

im curious as to why you think that post is AI

That post sounds like you're trying really hard not to be seen as casting shade on someone who is seen as town.

Town you wouldn't give a shit about the perception of the truth so much as getting the truth out. If it made BM look bad, who gives a shit? If it mad BM look good, who gives a shit?

Town doesn't have an agenda about the perception of other slots. Scum has the agenda of not stepping on toes. Everything about 2682 feels more like you're worried about stepping on BM's toes than whether what you're saying is actually what happened.

[Bingle]

I may or may not have been drinking heavily constantly for the last 6 hours. If that post makes absolutely no sense, remind me to revisit in the morning. The morning being sometime tomorrow afternoon. Possibly evening.

[Bingle]

Could be a red herring tbh. I mean, wouldn't Jigsaw be some 3rd party alignment?

Jigsaw is confirmed to be a mafia godfather via my role PM. I think I saw the same wording in Hectic's role (Hectic flipped).

[Bingle]

VOTE: Drixx

[Bingle]

Should probably ISO that before day runs out. Maybe tonight.

[Bingle]

Jigsaw works really well as the guy giving keys to his acolytes

Jigsaw will show up as town

Might be a more important flavour connection than BM's speculating on hoods and where jigsaw would fit best. Besides, maybe jigsaw isnt even john kramer here (unlikely but possible)

This spec is boring to me, even if it is potentially accurate.

Hunting a specific mafia role is way harder than just hunting mafia. We know that if scum, ircher can only be Jigsaw. Therefore ircher's odds of being scum are 1/10 or whatever compared to the average player's odds of 4/10 or whatever. If Jigsaw flips, ircher becomes conftown. At least for now hunting outside of ircher is just basic play.

[Bingle]

ill get more motivated to play if some people scumread me.

I need some hot scumreads on me to SORT. GIVE IT TO ME SENPAI

Vecna just expressed a lowkey scumread on you and BB was pretty low impact while she was here. It wouldn't be that hard to convince me you're scum.

Does that help?

[Bingle]

ill get more motivated to play if some people scumread me.

I need some hot scumreads on me to SORT. GIVE IT TO ME SENPAI

Vecna just expressed a lowkey scumread on you and BB was pretty low impact while she was here. It wouldn't be that hard to convince me you're scum.

Does that help?

i feel like this is a pity scumread.
can u pretend its more legitimate?

Guys, iDany lied about his role. On nights that are both even and prime he gets an additional cop target outside of the hood and he chose to target FB. FB is scum.


Does that help?

[Bingle]

hunh?

I'm faking a guilty on FB to get him more motivated to play.

[Bingle]

VaultDweller <- Town unless Vecna is scum. If scum with Vecna, unlikely Jigsaw (who the fuck fake innos a Godfather?)
Ircher <- Town or Jigsaw unless I am scum. Gave ABR a BP Vest.
Albert B. Rampage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
Battle Mage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
BBmolla <- Semi Proven 1 shot Reporter, if more than one shot can be full proven. Slight town equity to claim not being used as a scum power. Not sure if it would occur to BB to use it as a scum power.
pisskop <- Claimed no hood.
Vecna <- Informed VD is town. Flavor supports claim, vaguely towny? Spec seems to want to widen lynchpool, keep an eye on this.
GuiltyLion <- Broke a trap. One Shot? (Don't clarify GL)
Eddie Cane <- In a hood with two cops (one of which can only target in hood), feels town.
davesaz <- As above, other people said null.
Drixx <- As above, other people said scummy. Trap interaction role, but only with multiperson traps.
Firebringer <- No mechanicals?
Morning Tweet <- EC says town, I feel pings. No real mechanicals?

[Bingle]

Hmmm. Drixx ISO seems more town than scum. Time to check Dave.

[Bingle]

I literally forgot to use it last night I’ll use it tonight

Include the phrase purple monkeys.

That's something that would never come up in a mod created flavor for this game, proving your influence.

[Bingle]

Yeah, much happier here:

VOTE: Dave

No mechanics, not a lot of nonmechanics, a lot of NAI.

EC, talk to me about this MT townread, cause I'm not seeing it.

[Bingle]

What about it seems false?

Drixx seems pretty town to me, tbh.

[Bingle]

Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, Albert B. Rampage, Blake Belladonna, Battle Mage, VaultDweller, Vecna are all town

Leaving:
BBmolla,
davesaz
Bingle
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Pisskop
Gamma Emerald

I cant even remember which the cop inno's are at this point

But it should mean the odds of hitting scum in what remains oughta be 75% easily

Far side: dead.

Ge: town.

[Bingle]

Can anyone, preferably the naked votes, tell me why davesaz is scummy?

A lot of people are townie and he is hard null, which makes him more likely scum. I also like who I'm voting with.

Additionally, he’s a member of my hood which has a flipped cop, a cop claim that can only target in hood, an innocent by cop and an innocent by friendly neighbor adjacent role. Assuming my role isn’t a red herring for town, there should be at least one non jigsaw scum in the hood. The other options in that hood are me EC and drixx.

I also don’t like that he’s been very mechanics lite in a mechanics heavy game when he’s a self professed mechanically oriented player.

[Bingle]

it's a mechanics heavy game? Can you try telling that to...ok pretty much everybody?

Mechanical aspects of game:

Multiple neighborhoods
Interactive death processes
Overlapping Neighborhoods
Multiple cop claims

Mechanical aspects of the game dave has talked about:

[Bingle]

I'd lynch MT before GL and myself before either of them, fwiw.

[Bingle]

no u

[Bingle]

TBC, I'm not really townreading either of them, I just think resolving my neighborhood is literally the most important thing for this day phase and lynching outside of it is dumb.

I doubt the mod puts me in a neighborhood with another cop where I can't get any guilties. The living non inno'd people in my hood are BINGLE DRIXX EC DAVE.

Of those, Dave is the only one I don't think is town.

[Bingle]

if there is a cop who can only investigate in their own hood, which has only 7 other people to start, does anyone really think there are more than 2 scum there? It's probably more like 1, otherwise it's a pretty powerful role in a game which is already chock-full of town PRs.

Just a hot take, as I do need a re-read to get to grips with who has claimed what...

There are 4 living people who have not had innocent results on them in said hood. One of them is me. I am townreading 2 of them. 3/4 of them are highly proficient mafia players. I'm literally counting on there being 1-2 scum in that neighborhood.



Go ahead and tell me again why this isn't a good place to spend our energy?

[Bingle]

I am unmoved by the soft, FWIW.

[Bingle]

I feel like iDany probably wouldn't claim an inno on his scumbuddy unless that buddy is jigsaw. Seems like a really ballsy play. although there's still the chance he would, it just seems like a bad idea

Literally the opposite, imo. I know this should have 0 weight, but if I'm going to fake inno a partner it's never the godfather. I WANT a godfather partner to be investigated.

[Bingle]

I am unmoved by the soft, FWIW.

Can I get your thoughts from a mechanical perspective on the existence of 2 cops (one who can only check their own hood), a godfather, and then another investigative that can only check for godfather

do you think the only-Jigsaw cop doesn't make sense as a town role?

If it's a town role it heavily implies that there are two scum in my hood, both Jigsaw and notJigsaw.

If it's a town role it also implies a crazy high reliance on town investigation hits that likely mean we're pretty fucked anyway.

Also, don't forget that Vecna's claimed another member of my hood is functionally an IC. Style wise, cramming town power into a huge hood with a slight scum presence is a valid choice, and I'm not really familiar enough with cakez to say if he'd do that or not. Balance wise, if the scumteam has as much power as they appear to, there's very little I would say is unreasonable for town.

If my hood is all town or all town sans Jigsaw, my role is straight trash to include, so I'm pretty sold on there being at least one 'hit' for me. A role cop (guilty on godfather) makes some amount of sense, but the reluctance to claim when there's a legitimate chance scum can't get a guaranteed kill on him seems weak.

If it's true, Jigsaw is likely in the hood and Dave should 100% investigate Gamma/Ircher tonight should I be the lynch.

[Bingle]

I mean... He didn't fakeclaim an inno on a partner. and either 5 or 6 players in the thread know that to be true. :shrugs:

[Bingle]

There's no way you get enough votes to be lynched today, BM.

I'm not willing to vote outside of my hood, which means that in all likelihood I get lynched, which is probably not the worst outcome here, tbh. When my role is confirmed, my setup knowledge becomes fact and there's a small pool of potential players for nonjigsaw scum in the police hood. Dave's reaction of "crumb PR as hard as possible while keeping his actual particulars vague" is not likely to be town imo, because the crumbs make him just as likely to eat a nightkill (trap) as the actual claim would, but keeping the claim vague as shit lets him tailor it further if he lives.

It's also bullshit that he's going to immediately be the nightkill target off of a (I have a 1/the playerlist chance of hitting scum!) when he's a likely lynch and scum is almost at the endgame. Frankly, an investigative that can only hit the godfather would be a nonissue to a 4 person scumteam at this point.

[Bingle]

Reminder for whomever missed my reaction to iDany claim.

Yeah, it was pretty trash. Most of them were, though.

[Bingle]

I could swear someone confirmed that jigsaw is a GF?

Both Hectic and my roles imply the existence of Jigsaw as GF, although it is theoretically plausible that's just a ruse to make sure our results aren't trustworthy. Dave being a godfather only cop would functionally confirm the existence of the role.

[Bingle]

Pagetop
VOTE: Battle Mage

VOTE: Bingle

[Bingle]

VaultDweller <- Town unless Vecna is scum. If scum with Vecna, unlikely Jigsaw (who the fuck fake innos a Godfather?)
Ircher <- Town or Jigsaw unless I am scum. Gave ABR a BP Vest.
Albert B. Rampage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
Battle Mage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
BBmolla <- Semi Proven 1 shot Reporter, if more than one shot can be full proven. Slight town equity to claim not being used as a scum power. Not sure if it would occur to BB to use it as a scum power.
pisskop <- Claimed no hood.
Vecna <- Informed VD is town. Flavor supports claim, vaguely towny? Spec seems to want to widen lynchpool, keep an eye on this.
GuiltyLion <- Broke a trap. One Shot? (Don't clarify GL)
Eddie Cane <- In a hood with two cops (one of which can only target in hood), feels town.
davesaz <- As above, other people said null.

Softing Godfather Cop

Drixx <- As above, other people said scummy. Trap interaction role, but only with multiperson traps.

Maybe not godfather because dave is softing maybe having some kind of role sorta.

Firebringer <- No mechanicals?
Morning Tweet <- EC says town, I feel pings. No real mechanicals?

Bolded is updates.

I might have missed some, I've mostly been skimming, tbh.

[Bingle]

On balance, I'm not sold on Vecna and VaultDweller as town. Looking back at early VaultDweller posts, he was very engaged with 2 people: Momo and Vecna. With him having no knowledge of Vecna, but Vecna claiming something to defend him, one simple explanation would be that they are simply scumbuddies. Not sure why Vecna would make that play though? Unless perhaps VaultDweller was Jigsaw? In any case, Vecna should go first, and could be viable lynch, although quite far down priority list today I think...

It's likely VD is town, but I can agree that Vecna looks bad. Especially when we take into account that VD softclaimed some sort of weak investigative role (add that to the list). Still though, Vecna is outside of the cophood.

[Bingle]

I mean... Never lynch VD before Vecna, don't lynch Vecna today.

I don't see why Vecna fake innos a buddy here when there are a ton of viable mislynches regardless of who the scum team is, so it's likely that VD is town regardless.

That's functionally 5 investigative claims, all gated pretty heavily, and I can agree that it's likely not all of them are town. But of the three {Vecna/Dave/VD} VD is the one I suspect the least. Why would VD out himself as investigative the way he did as scum. It looks like there's already going to be a lynch on a claimed PR, so it's probably not to cast doubt on true town claims. He himself isn't under scrutiny because Vecna isn't nearing a lynch. It just doesn't make sense for VD to make the play he's making here.

I also think Vecna is more likely to be town than dave, because Vecna has flavor knowledge about VD. Vecna claimed VD's flavor iirc, which means scum has a flavor cop of some kind if VD isn't on his team.

[Bingle]

I don't think I'm changing my mind on Jingle being the most likely mafia at this point.

There’s a reason I’m not trying super hard to redeem my slot.

[Bingle]

Lookin at the vote count I don’t like GE’s slot.
Let me take a look who replaced them.

Something something cop inno something.

[Bingle]

He’s in the hood and people keep saying he’s he’s scummy without explaining why. I think he looks like classic disenfranchised town who genuinely tries to understand and scumhunt on occasion, but my experience with him is dated hydra meta, so it’s worth looking yourself.

[Bingle]

At this rate, we're gonna No Lynch...

I just figured we were going to chucklefuck around and then eventually lynch me because it's actually an objectively solid lynch from every town PoV except mine.

All of the wagons outside of my hood are pretty garbagey.

[Bingle]

too widely town read? I disagree, I'm ok with lynching him, largely on merit of how much I scumread VD, the value of lynching outside the hoods, and this haphazard open.

I did not get a town read Vecna catching up but I dont think the votes exist, deadlines in like 2 days

I agree that Vecna wasn't a beacon of town shinyness, but he's still probably a bad play today.

I think TSE is likely to annoy scum into shooting him/actively scumhunt.

He tends to be a very proactive if high ego player, but let's be real here, the only way we could get bigger egos in this game is if we added RC and LLD to blow up at each other, so the ego drawback is less than worrisome.

The way town wins this game is for some of our moderates (GL/Drixx/FB/Irch/MT?) to do a good job of reigning in whichever town voices are in the middle of the "No, sheep me!" wars and build a common ground to stand on. My town flip gives Ircher the cred he needs to do that, and SHOULD instigate a hard reset on the part of the people who have been hard suspecting me all day.

[Bingle]

What are your reads right now, Jingle?

Mechanically, Irch/VD are likely town.
Circumstantially I think ABR/BM are likely both town.
Feels wise Drixx, FB and you are town.
BB/PK are both slots I am continually surprised to remember are in the game.
GL is a slot I remember is in the game but don't feel strongly about.
MT and Vecna are the most individually scummy, but I'm not particularly interested in lynching today.

Everyone else is in this grey shades middle area where I'm not really sure. The overlap between people I think might be scum and people who are in the hood with two cops is Dave.

[Bingle]

At this rate, we're gonna No Lynch...

I just figured we were going to chucklefuck around and then eventually lynch me because it's actually an objectively solid lynch from every town PoV except mine.

All of the wagons outside of my hood are pretty garbagey.

Then Pick one of Eddie/Battle Mage/Icher/Firebringer and I’ll Sheep you.
There’s definitely at minimum 1 Scum in there.

[Bingle]

Hm, we thought there were 5 hours to deadline, but it was only 3

There’s still 6 hours. :/ This wagon feels off to me.

Irch probably not godfather. Irch godfather has no reason to try as hard as he has been when he already has an inno on him.

[Bingle]

Vc is two pages ago and has a countdown.

[Bingle]

Not that it really matters because hammer, but :shrug:

[Bingle]

TrueSoulEnergy, pisskop, MorningTweet, dave, Firebringer, BBmolla

None of these votes look particularly town.

[Bingle]

I claimed I was going to target EC last night. EC responded in what I believe to be a towny manner. However, in the interest of not being a jackass, I am only 2 shot and that's why I was not particularly trying to save my life yesterday.

I still prefer the Dave lynch.

[Bingle]

Okay here's more concise scumteams prolly

BM + 2-3 of {Ircher/Bingle/dave/Eddie} + {???}

or

3-4 of {Pisskop/BBMolla/Fire/

Davesaz/dave

} + {???}

just give me some time to ensure that the bottom possibility isnt happening

Wat?

[Bingle]

I had this partially typed in my quick reply as of post 3281. Big RL interruption.

Really want to hear Bingle's result if any. A bunch of us know what he said he would do in the hood.

MT you said that extra traps would be coming, but from the mod's posts it doesn't look like that happened. Can you explain how you managed to escape a trap without having the consequences that you thought would happen?

I already outed that I’m only two shot and was soft cleared by vd in a very minimal way.

[Bingle]

Hey, I'd like to apologize for ABR's prior NAI boorish behavior. I'll do my brand of catching up shortly.

When you do VCA you should know some stuff.

VD is a literal IC.
There’s a probable godfather, so cop innos aren’t 100% reliable.
Ircher has been cop innod.
Your hood contained scum that has already been lynched.
My hood had 7 people, including a flipped cop, a cop claim, the innocent child who claimed detective ish role, and a can only target scum cop.
We probably need to massclaim.
There are 4 scum alive.

[Bingle]

It’s a trap!

[Bingle]

EC why did you think today was potential lylo last night?

[Bingle]

I actually believe its pretty likely town has already lost this game even if we hit scum today, which has sapped my desire to care.

I think we just have to assume that we haven't and move on from there.

On the plus side, we're pretty close to a 50/50 on guessing scum, so maybe we just need 4 consecutive coin flips.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: Claims

Morning Tweet
Ircher - Can escape traps, gave ability to ABR.
VaultDweller - Checks whether people have set traps on previous 2 nights, 3 shot. Checked me N2, BM N3.
Bingle - Cop who can only check in hood, 2 shot. Role PM says Jigsaw is a godfather.
davesaz - Softed hard that he's a cop that checks if someone is Jigsaw. Maybe innocent result on Drixx? (God Drixx wagon was awful.)
BBmolla - Confirmed Reporter
pisskop - Breaks out of traps, kills people in trap with him.
Eddie Cane
Battle Mage
Titus
Firebringer

Spoiler: Hoods

Cops

Ircher
VaultDweller
Bingle
Eddie Cane
davesaz

Hood w/ deadscum

Battle Mage
Titus

FBI Hood

Morning Tweet
Firebringer

No Hood

BBmolla
pisskop

Spoiler: Clears

VaultDweller - Town
Ircher - Town or Jigsaw
Battle Mage - Did not trap N1 or N2.
Bingle - Did not trap N1.
Morning Tweet
Eddie Cane
davesaz
BBmolla
pisskop
Titus
Firebringer

{Morning Tweet, Eddie Cane, davesaz, BBmolla, pisskop, Titus, Firebringer} Contains 1-4 scum from a public PoV. I'm going to assume 0-1 erroneous clears for now. Definitely want to lynch outside of the clears. Thinking a little bit more, it would make sense thematically that the one with control of the loudspeakers would be Jigsaw, but I think scum with that role would be too self conscious about it to self confirm immediately. Maybe?

I'm still wigged the fuck out by MT, but I think I'm alone there. Dave needs to firm up his claim and out results. He shouldn't have been allowed to not do that yesterday with the shitty ass soft. We also probably need a full massclaim at this point, especially if we're in likely MYLO.

[Bingle]

I mean... He also said that he may or may not be able to clear Drixx on being the godfather and then never brought it up again and didn't actually claim, but yeah, that's the rough gist of what happened.

[Bingle]

Farside town N1, GE (Ircher) town N2.

I was only two shot and didn't really fight my lynch yesterday. Didn't claim the two shot in the hopes of being put in a trap.

[Bingle]

When the point of my approach is to avoid revealing role information at all, it's kinda hard to do that.
If I had information that someone like

Drixx

for example isn't Jigsaw, it doesn't help with knowing if they're scum or not.
I was

Determined

to not give any clues that I had an important ability until the info was actually useful.
I can perhaps give enough information that someone may be able to confirm the capability, without revealing what else I might know.

Oh, hey. Dave is a rolecop.

[Bingle]

Everyone and their mother suspects my slot. The page I replaced in was literally 6 people saying "let's not lynch him because claim but he's still probably scum."

I'm reserving judgment on you until you're all the way caught up, but I think it likely that there was only one scum in the small hood based on very basic setup spec.

I honestly haven't looked hard at my slot's vote history, but from the way people talk about it I can believe that it's scummy.

[Bingle]

3413 is a more complete claims post, dave.

[Bingle]

Spoiler: every player who posted on the page I repped in, sans mod.

Youre being run up in high pace bingle and need to fullclaim

I think your slot is extremely mafia. You should full claim with bonus points on how quick you do.

I pretty much agree with you dave yea

Ideally id like to give iDany-Bingie another day and reevaluate. If we mislynch town!idany down the line we got more info too

hia Bingie!

The mod stated there could be multiples, I think? So a CC doesn't automatically mean one is each alignment.

That's not the basis of my hesitation though, un-CC'd isn't essential. Claims just make me stop in general, mostly because of golden rule and hating it when the shoe is on the other foot and people don't stop when I'm the town who trueclaims. My TM game is a perfect example. A CC would reduce that hesitation but would just leave me with a 1v1 to solve.

The "only in the Police hood" thing is an aspect that makes fakeclaim a real possibility for me. If scum needed to eliminate someone from "police" at a critical juncture with a fake guilty it would be the best kind of cover. Plus it's good cover for not investigating scummy people outside that hood. And I certainly don't see town in iDany's posting. I would have said that it's just as likely to be fake as real, but I think we're on the same page there.

VOTE: idanyboy

As a note, most of these are still alive.

Everyone suspected me, no one was willing to vote me because my predecessor claimed cop.

[Bingle]

So dave, can your role detect Jigsaw? Like does this mean Ircher is in fact a key holder and cannot be jigsaw

Not necessarily. We don't know what Jigsaw's role is named, only that my role and Hectic's role can't see jigsaw. (And VD's, I think?) It could well be that Jigsaw wasn't even informed of his cop immunity since it was a part of our roles, and there's a slight chance Jigsaw is a red herring that isn't even in the game.

[Bingle]

Hey Bingle - I definitely suspected you! But never keen to lynch in the cop-hood.

I know, you just didn't express that on that page.

I think the only one who actually thought I was solidly town yesterday was Irch. Similar to how I was the only one who actually thought Drixx was town.

[Bingle]

Eh. I stopped listening to you when I decided that even if you/ABR weren't TvT it wasn't worth parsing yesterday.

[Bingle]

How many pushed you vs pushed iDany and then backed off when you subbed in?

Maybe Vecna? He never really developed a townread on me though, just kinda stopped pushing me. Mostly people were saying they thought I was scum but didn't want to lynch me because of my claim, despite the fact that I kept making posts like:

There's no way you get enough votes to be lynched today, BM.

I'm not willing to vote outside of my hood, which means that in all likelihood I get lynched, which is probably not the worst outcome here, tbh. When my role is confirmed, my setup knowledge becomes fact and there's a small pool of potential players for nonjigsaw scum in the police hood. Dave's reaction of "crumb PR as hard as possible while keeping his actual particulars vague" is not likely to be town imo, because the crumbs make him just as likely to eat a nightkill (trap) as the actual claim would, but keeping the claim vague as shit lets him tailor it further if he lives.

It's also bullshit that he's going to immediately be the nightkill target off of a (I have a 1/the playerlist chance of hitting scum!) when he's a likely lynch and scum is almost at the endgame. Frankly, an investigative that can only hit the godfather would be a nonissue to a 4 person scumteam at this point.

[Bingle]

ABR has a rep for being hard to get along with.

I've never had a personal issue with him (except for one game that he got way too salty and outed his team in) but knowing ABR is abrasive is almost a given if you've been on site as long as Titus and I have.

[Bingle]

BM, how long have you had your current reads?

I think early D2? He hasn't meaningfully reevaluated since ABR became his top priority iirc.

[Bingle]

Yeah, that's def possible. My knowledge of the thread before my rep in is spotty at best. Mostly ISOs and skimming.

I still maintain that ABR's taking credit for the momo lynch looks 100% like town ABR, your stance on momo doesn't look like a bus, and 1 scum in a 4 person neighborhood is a perfectly reasonable choice. I might be wrong (and frequently am) but that's my take on that whole situation. I think someone mentioned you had a large case on ABR when I repped in, do you happen to have a post number?

[Bingle]

Is no one else getting the feeling that MT has been throwing shit at a wall to see what sticks and then immediately backing down if there's resistance all day?

[Bingle]

If ABR/BM are scum together it's a 3/4 scum neighborhood with a full mutual bus. That's just dumb, setup wise.

I have to say, that flavor case seems a lot stronger than any flavor case should ever be.

[Bingle]

Up until day 4 scum were worried about getting decimated themselves. Like I said in my earlier post, all it would have taken was farside's shot to hit pisskop or a guilty and the game would have blown open for town. Unforgiving yes, but both ways.

Personally I dislike setups with this much swing, but the setup was fair to both sides.

WP by scum, you definitely deserved the win.

[Bingle]

I also know some people were frustrated with their roles. I struggled with that because town already had a LOT of power as was. Some people had to get the less-useful Mailman/Reporter/Vanilla neighbor roles.
Also apparently Neighbor is not considered a Power Role in Role Madness? I had no idea. That's why I stepped in when I did.

You shouldn't have, tbh. Neighbor is by definition a power role, and Role Madness doesn't even mean 0 VTs. Role Madness means few if any VTs.

As a mod you should never help out when people make dumb assumptions. If they want to ask you if there are VTs in the setup you can answer. If they want to ask you if neighbors are VTs then you can answer. You should never answer the questions publicly without being prompted to by a public questions directed at you.