Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[farside22]

mod: please replace farside with this account

[farside22]

If you're honest about your reaction here, you're just being emotional instead of strategic and rational.

Could you tell me why voting for Elsa is strategic and rational? I get what you're saying, but announcing to Elsa that I'm voting her for pressure doesnt seem like the most effective way of pressuing someone

I didn't say your Elsa vote was any better. They're both awful bandwagons.

Vecna, however? Yes, I encourage that.

Why are you current scum reading vecna?

[farside22]

His voting record and justification is off.

I only really say the elsa one as off and his whole reaction post was not my cup of tea as any reaction to it would probably be a bad reaction. But that's just my opinion.

Sorry for the awful inactivity, should have called a V/LA for yesterday.

For now, I think a good wagon is

VOTE: Vecna

I think his push on Drixx is opportunistic in nature

. Like:

It seemed like a clear joke to me, yet you ignored the joke aspect and thought it was scummy because he was copying someone.

If you missed the part that it was a joke, thats fine, just admit that shit and dont blow this crap up like its something big.

Yeah, that's what happened. Why is this more likely to come from Scum than Town? That's also not the only reason Drixx was pushing BM, so why is that one of the only things you're bringing up?

(I'm also townreading most of the people on the current Vecna wagon, so it's the most trustworthy to me)

How is it opportunistic at all? There is only 2 votes on Drixx and Drixx basically bitched and moaned about it.

[farside22]

I have switched my read on ElsaJay and think she is town, I'm scum reading BM/Albert then just above null towards scum is Momo,pisskop and farside. I'll VOTE: BattleMage because his got more votes than Albert so far.

Why did you switch your reads on Elsa?

[farside22]

I have switched my read on ElsaJay and think she is town, I'm scum reading BM/Albert then just above null towards scum is Momo,pisskop and farside. I'll VOTE: BattleMage because his got more votes than Albert so far.

Why did you switch your reads on Elsa?

I only voted her because I found Post 448 and Post 465 strange. Why say you're not going to answer the question then a few posts later she answers the question. The reason I town read her now is because of her response Hectic.

Her response is pretty null. Anyone can fake things like that.
Oh I'm sad.
My role sucks. My life sucks.
I don't see anything that says it's true or not in there.

[farside22]

It did suck though. Retail is a bitch at the moment. Particularly when your the only good store in town with panic buyers galore, and the regional manager is checking your store to make sure its spotless for a survey and shit.

My role does suck though. Don't like it.

Do you think your response is really telling as far as town or scum?
@Danny: Do you think a response from Elsa about her life and roll is really alignment indicative, if so why? Or tell me exactly why her response came off town.

I'm reasonably certain this isn't farside's first game back, though the previous game I saw her in might have been where she replaced in.
I'd be interested to hear an updated why on the scumread, whether it's pushed or not. Your vote there is ancient.

How about Elsa Jay? Thoughts on whether the "not trying so what" attitude might be an attempt to be too scummy to be scum?

True, true. Game is still ongoing. Came back to the site just a week ago.

I'm reasonably certain this isn't farside's first game back, though the previous game I saw her in might have been where she replaced in.
I'd be interested to hear an updated why on the scumread, whether it's pushed or not. Your vote there is ancient.

well, i dont think her posting has improved, all ive really done this game is try to get a read on her and all her responses felt awkward/forced
nevertheless i am kind of looking to move from her, i dont actually want to lynch her d1, even if thats dumb favoritism
.

1) I don't miss the insults about how I post. I post what I'm thinking and sometimes it comes out emotionally. 2 ) You haven't really asked many questions are all you really responded. Are you saying all my posting looks forced?
And why did you ignore the question I asked you? here

Anyways, maybe im just being distracted by the wrong thing here.

@Drixx; this is my reasoning. As town id expect you to try and at least get me to respond to your actual case and discuss that with me. Easy enough to try and move past the one detail that was flawed. In hindsight, in your later posts there was some of that and im actually going to try and engage with that now.

However, this whole interaction has given me a whiff of what might also be going on: Namely, you as scum being aware you just got slapped on the finger for actual good reasoning, and you wanting to obfuscate and distract from that because you give more weight to my little gotcha than it ever should have. Noone cared about it, but you did quite a bit. Now, maybe this was just because youre town and we missed eachothers meanings.....but you keep on going with making things worse for some reason. I dont get it why you would as town?

Go look at Wake's 50 player game that didn't get finished. Someone behaved nearly identical to how you were behaving towards me there. They were scum. I was not. I'm not scum here either. The people who know me well already weighed in with town reads for a reason.

And that's day one play from me because of how I game solve. I'm going to push people on things that don't make rational sense and judge them based upon how they RESPOND to the push.

Sadly you came in and had the poor response, which has let BM and Hectic (the two people I wanted responses from) basically skate away without responding. Both have been back and neither engaged.

How was his response poor?

[farside22]

It's funny nor one person -other than EJ himself- commented on my referencing him saying almost the same thing in another game where he was scum. I get that scum don't want to deal with that one way or another (if he is scum it's best if they let it die, and if he is town then either town pushes through the mislynch or scum use it later to mislynch me). Now why did no TOWN player talk about that?

I checked more into ej as a player and i feel very unsure since they are very monotone playstyle.
So far all i get is a lot of meh.

Wagon bores me for now on EJ.
Next on my scum list.
VOTE: BM
Drixx would be second strongest scum read.

[farside22]

"Monotone"? What does that mean farside?

You don't read as a passionate player like others. I saw lots of one liners from you, very relaxed kind of play. I did catch something that I think it is a scum tell, but I'd rather not say unless I see it.

farside - why am I your 2nd strongest scum read?

I read your reaction to venca as fake. The association you put in there reads as over the top and invalid.

It's funny nor one person -other than EJ himself- commented on my referencing him saying almost the same thing in another game where he was scum. I get that scum don't want to deal with that one way or another (if he is scum it's best if they let it die, and if he is town then either town pushes through the mislynch or scum use it later to mislynch me). Now why did no TOWN player talk about that?

I checked more into ej as a player and i feel very unsure since they are very monotone playstyle.
So far all i get is a lot of meh.

Wagon bores me for now on EJ.
Next on my scum list.
VOTE: BM
Drixx would be second strongest scum read.

So you scumread BM but drixx is your 2nd strongest scumread?

So you either think drixx is hardcore bussing as his only read, or this proves youre really not reading the game at all?

Which is it

I read them as individually scummy. That said I can't even begin to tell you the times I have seen a play push there scum buddy as a lynch and then teeter off of it.
Serious question. Do you really see Drixx pushing BM as hard as he is pushing you as a scum read?

[farside22]

So you scumread BM but drixx is your 2nd strongest scumread?

So you either think drixx is hardcore bussing as his only read, or this proves youre really not reading the game at all?

oof

This is too good to want dead today.

Why do you say that?

[farside22]

Bleh, nevermind Pisskop. I thought you were wanting Vecna dead.
I swear context is going to be my biggest issue

[farside22]

lol welcomeback!

Thanks. I almost feel like a newb when I see some abbreviation and trying to remember them all.

[farside22]

You think your PT is dead? The game thread is barely kicking. There are no bandwagons, no solid cases, no participation. I can tell Day 1 is going to not be lit. Let's lynch Vecna and be done with it.

No thanks and you are voting Pine last i checked.

[farside22]

Was that sarcasm?

[farside22]

Spoiler:

I am feeling Battle Mage, GeorgeBailey, pisskop, momo, BBMolla as some solid D1 townreads.

I especially like BM's vote on DanyBoy and I want to add another

VOTE: iDanyBoy

very little engagement from him and I agree 223 is a bizarre post, the assumption that scum fake claims are flavor linked to the PTs feels angle-shooty in a way that I don't think is likely to come from town. It feels more likely to be an excuse to push a mislynch later - 'they claimed [x] role and they're not in [y] hood' - and less like something DanyBoy genuinely believes is useful in finding scum.

I'm also not in any hoods so if any of you all have a recruit or something get me in on some neighborhood action cause I wanna be in there

I'm like 99.9% of the way to swapping my vote to Vecna at this point.

You should. BM is town.

Bettlejuice!
BettleJuice!

This is the second time you responded to a post that clearly tells me you are not reading the thread and you seem to respond only to your name.

Reminding myself to ask about this, but wait until Vecna has had a chance to respond.

I know you are not a chatty player in general but you have any insights thus far?

Voting me for being "unusual" is vaguely scummy, since it should be very well known that me being unusual is actually normal.
Asking about it makes you townier.
I have several gut townreads, for example ABR and Drixx. Momo is much improved over what I remember, though I'd have to check my past topics to find out how long it has been.
Battle Mage seems mostly town.
Hectic is Hectic. Pretty obviously town unless it's a huge deepwolf thing. I have more thoughts about him but it's bad for town to talk about those thoughts.
A50 is a little suspicious, mostly for a lack of playfulness that was also lacking in a game we were scum together. But he was also missing it in a game where he was town, so I don't know if it's maybe ups and downs in RL.
Elsa Jay making a comment about me overestimating his ability as scum is a little suspicious. Maybe I'm actually on track with that.
Pine implied he was posting somewhere else but not in the main thread. I want to hear why.
Guilty Lion and George seem a little empty. I've seen the same thing in their town game so it's not enough to go on for a read.

Context counts. Literally everyone who bothered to respond about BM was throwing a town read on him. Not really feeling trying to push someone through a wall of town reads. Not sure what he's done that warrants ANY read, but that's something to look at as the game progresses a bit further.

I found 3 players that town read him. And the argument between you and Venca ended taking center stage over the game when you basically called him scum for depending BM on something that was not a defense.

Just saying.

Spoilered quotes on request.

[farside22]

Sorry the above was to Drixx, the rest where the quotes I found where people said they town read BM.

mod: please spoil the first 3 quotes. Thanks

[farside22]

Besides GuiltyLion, I don't find anyone SUPER SCUMMY right now. I have some townreads...and that's it. If we have to compromise and lynch a player we all feel neutral towards, like Pine, it's better than no lynch or dragging a day to the point everyone is bored and annoyed and wants to quit. So I'm voting GuiltyLion, if that doesn't work, I'm OK to vote out Pine if he doesn't do anything, because I legit don't know who has a high possibility of flipping scum here. Maybe Vecna?

@Vecna

Keep in mind I haven't played in 3+ years. I don't remember much about previous games.

I don't agree with gl or venca reads. Id go danny, his response does not give me warm fuzzies, drixx, bm, george, davez or xtoxm.
I have a few null reads but its too early for this kind of attitude

[farside22]

Btw, can someone who isn't ABR who is also SRing Drixx walk me through it like I was 50 years younger?? Is me liking Drixx as a person blinding me from seeing he is scum here? I mean, I also like EJ as a person but I am still SRing him, so can someone help me see the light?

The reaction drixx have towards venca reads over the top.
If you read the bm scum read he had he said somthing about bm coping what another player was doing as a scum tell.
Im on my phone so this part is from memory: i think bm said he was making a list just to have it. So the scum tell itself was pretty nonexistant.
Vernca pointed it out and drixx goes on a tangent that doesnt really add up given venca reaction.
In short i dont buy what drixx is selling.

[farside22]

On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?

Gut/slimmy feeling when i see him buddy up to tweet.
I have a weird reason as well that I'd rather not explain.

[farside22]

Besides GuiltyLion, I don't find anyone SUPER SCUMMY right now. I have some townreads...and that's it. If we have to compromise and lynch a player we all feel neutral towards, like Pine, it's better than no lynch or dragging a day to the point everyone is bored and annoyed and wants to quit. So I'm voting GuiltyLion, if that doesn't work, I'm OK to vote out Pine if he doesn't do anything, because I legit don't know who has a high possibility of flipping scum here. Maybe Vecna?

@Vecna

Keep in mind I haven't played in 3+ years. I don't remember much about previous games.

I don't agree with gl or venca reads. Id go danny, his response does not give me warm fuzzies, drixx, bm, george, davez or xtoxm.
I have a few null reads but its too early for this kind of attitude

IDanny had those two posts that barely ever come from scum.

Imo, scum dont think along the lines of talking about hood flavour matching their future fakeclaims and already start preparing town to play to oppose that. Like a true mastermind might have made a plan to abuse that and flip the logic, but iDanny doesnt really strike me as the RC type of player.

This just appeared to me as genuine town logic and everyone interpreted it completely wrong.

You maybe right. I had a town read on Danny early on. I thought his reasoning for changing his read on EJ is just weak.
I think with Pine it isn't really alignment inductive. It's bee awhile since I played with him but I recall he lurked once upon a time. Don't hold me on that. I don't really want to research everyone's meta unless I'm suspicious of them. Which is why my vote hasn't moved off of BM.
He's a bit less nice of a player and all the ass kissery is really not something he does. (yes that is my weird reason)

[farside22]

Vecna wasn’t in that game unless it was an alt, so I don’t know what he’s talking about. I usually regard neighborhoods with thinly-veiled contempt and largely ignore them - much as I’m doing with both of the hoods I’m in this game.

Your in more the one hood?

[farside22]

I don’t think I - nope, I didn’t stutter.

I was just surprised.

So fun fact I looked at the game Drixx referenced and he did fight with a player that was scum. He voted and kept his vote on that player and from what I saw he did say a player was scum helping there buddy (I didn't see if the player was that players buddy) but all that said there are differences.
Most important was the case on Venca was built on something that didn't occur and Drixx hasn't really followed up pushing the scum read with anything really valid.
So it didn't change my view on Drixx in this game.

*looks at time left in day for game*

I can wait.

[farside22]

XTOM, DAVE, BB, HECTIC, or BLAKE

Anyone here except Hectic works for me, can you rank them for me please?

in order where scummiest is at the top

dave
BB
Xtom
Blake

For dave it's not even that i disagree with the content of his posts, he just seems different this game

I'd be down for dave or Xtoxm on this list.
i would love to know more about your George town read. I just dont see anything that reads town.

[farside22]

XTOM, DAVE, BB, HECTIC, or BLAKE

Anyone here except Hectic works for me, can you rank them for me please?

in order where scummiest is at the top

dave
BB
Xtom
Blake

For dave it's not even that i disagree with the content of his posts, he just seems different this game

I'd be down for dave or Xtoxm on this list.
i would love to know more about your George town read. I just dont see anything that reads town.

Get in.

VOTE: Dave

[farside22]

I think 567 wins over 564, no question.

Davesaz is also scum. 567 is not a good case.

Be careful when going this route. I've seen davesaz react very poorly to pressure like this as both alignments.

Not sure why you are saying such if you find him scummy.

[farside22]

Sigh.

I'm not saying don't wagon him. I'm saying to be careful about it. He has a history of reacting very poorly to pressure like this and I expect it to escalate with somebody like Albert B. Rampage at the helm.

I've fallen into that same trap multiple times in the past and it has yet to go in a positive direction for town.

Can you tell the difference between scum or town play from dave?

[farside22]

ABR transparently wants a big wagon, doesn't really care much who it's one, and doesn't need to have an actual basis for it.
The most interesting thing I see here is that he's very very reluctant to be the first.

Well he wont vote bm or drixx just to form a wagon.

[farside22]

I don’t think I - nope, I didn’t stutter.

I was just surprised.

So fun fact I looked at the game Drixx referenced and he did fight with a player that was scum. He voted and kept his vote on that player and from what I saw he did say a player was scum helping there buddy (I didn't see if the player was that players buddy) but all that said there are differences.
Most important was the case on Venca was built on something that didn't occur and Drixx hasn't really followed up pushing the scum read with anything really valid.
So it didn't change my view on Drixx in this game.

*looks at time left in day for game*

I can wait.

It's

almost

as if Drixx were a real live human being who changes over time, and he realized that how he went about things in that instance wasn't ideal and so he adjusted.

I mean ... that's one hypothesis anyway.

So you bring up the same to show similarities about fighting but anything else is saying you changed.

Lovely.

[farside22]

As I've said, you can wipe your ass with your two scum reads,

town should expand lynchpool to 6

.

Show me the rule. It sure isn't in THIS game's special rules, and it sure as hell isn't in the site's general rules either. I tried to find it on the wiki and I couldn't find anything as such. So, where did you get that "town should expand lynchpool to 6"??

Not sure this is serious.
If so can you tell me why you thought abr was saying it was a rule.

Almost I'm starting to think your going out of your way to try and make the vigilante(s) waste a shot on me. Usually you've just left me alone day 1 and such because I'm "entertaining". I think your just trying to detract from the other potential wagons today.

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

[farside22]

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

[farside22]

Spoiler:

What is your thoughts on ABR's reason for town reading you?

I don't townread EJ.

Sorry your right. You didn't want to for her for voting GL, even though it wasn't because of a scum read.
That make less sense logic to me.

@Drixx: I'm not going to have a quote war on the subject. Simply put you stopped once players called it scummy and since then you have been defending the reason because of that game.

I mean ... think what you want. Your scum equity keeps rising as you continue to try and insist that !reality is reality though. I'm not nearly invested enough to think I'm going to endgame, so there's going to come a time when I flip.

Consider this my dying request, whenever I die:

Remember farside (who has a lengthy history with me and I think respects my ability to employ rationalism to solve mafia games) insisted on putting an irrational line of argument.

I don't see any reason to take it further than that. I'm incredibly unlikely to eat rope today, and you know that. So ... humor me and pretend you believe I'm town and talk to me about some things that caught your interest that you think I would benefit from taking a look at. Engage me with some convo about the actual game instead of whether or not it's plausible that town!Drixx (who recently came back to site) is experimenting with different day 1 things, because his day 1 play has always been awful.

Like ... you're not gonna get me roped today, so if you

really

think I'm scum, engage and see if you can get me to go on the record about lots of things.

Like ... that's how to play the game. Don't fall to the meme lords.

~D

P.S. - I genuinely love being in games with you, and I hope you know that my affection is genuine, even when I'm frustrating you.

@drixx: i am a bit frustrated with you. You went on a tangent, dropped your read on bm to attack venca and at this point i have no clue whom your scum reads are.
I personally would love the bm wagon to get back on.

VOTE: bm

[farside22]

This looks a lot like ABR trying to rescue Drixx.

I don't think so. I see more low posting/lack of content from a few players that are more suspect then Abr's try to lead the game.
You know bm, xtoxm, george, even mono seems quiet for a player that built a case.

[farside22]

Hey, Blake, can you give me an example of Dave reacting very poorly and creating a toxic gamestate while he was pushed as scum?

Almo, are 457 and 776, and 891 your reasons for wanting to lynch Elsa? A traitor crumb, foreshadowing that he's scum WHILE there's a wagon on him, and the fact his scumgame is stronger than his towngame?

.3.

Now that's one I haven't seen before. Some nice foreshadowing.

The Mass Spec Analytical has changed their minds on Vecna. He's pointed out things they found towny on more than one occasion.

Almost I'm starting to think your going out of your way to try and make the vigilante(s) waste a shot on me. Usually you've just left me alone day 1 and such because I'm "entertaining". I think your just trying to detract from the other potential wagons today.

This post doesn't really fill me with confidence regarding Elsa though. I mean, I agree that Almo is scummy, but the reasoning here is iffy.

VOTE: Almost50

Hectic: wgy are you voting A50?

[farside22]

Im not joining the hectic wagon

[farside22]

anyone have a gamma emerald read I can copy

My notes have him as meh.

Im not joining the hectic wagon

I know, farside. You are the other scum. I saw it coming.

*fakes wounded feeling*

[farside22]

We aren't announcing the reasons because we want to see who is town enough to see what we saw. The case is there. Watch the red flag. We talked about it indirectly. Hectic is waving the red flag more fanatically than communists at a workers day parade with their lives on the line if they don't show enough enthusiasm.

It is not a thing. If all your doing os throwing shit to get reaction, good. If you are serious, let me know and we'll talk.

@BB - no idea who you are. I generally don't go trying to work out who is an alt of whom unless someone is paying me the unpleasant kind of personal attention.

Blake Belladonna is an open Ankamius/Alyssa the Lamb alt.

ANKA!!!!

[farside22]

You don't just go from townreading someone and advocating not lynching them today (all of the above), to being "99%" sure they're scum. This is exactly the sort of false bravado and confidence scum like to exhibit, and sometimes gets them townread:

I disagree with this. Scum will try and keep their reads as consistent as possible to avoid suspicion, especially a player as active as ABR. It's hard to read ABR this game, but the fact that he was willing to make a noted change to his reads as the game progressed has to be counted as townpoints, def not scummy.

This isn't true as a blanket statement at all, and varies from player to player. Are you aware of Albert's meta? Regardless, you need to look at each instance independently, and see if the switch is justified. Does his flip look justified based on that post I made? I really don't see it at all. I only surround myself with grey flags; you wouldn't find a red flag within touching distance of me.

VOTE: Albert

I want to hear the case, Albert.

This makes no sense.
If you think he is scum you should explain why.

In other news bm is warming my heart.
VOTE: xtoxm

[farside22]

Then again, I still get the feeling everyone in on some inside joke that I'm not aware of yet. Is this the part of the movie where I think I'm at a party hitting a pinata, but then it's revealed I'm on hallucigons and actually macheting a corpse? That's pretty morbid, Jigsaw.

It's a bit old school, but ABR is pushing for reactions from what I can tell. I get the impression he is seeing how players react to each wagon and how they vote and what comes from it.
I haven't seen him do it (maybe a long time ago). The ABR I knew last time did a lot of lurking.

On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?

Gut/slimmy feeling when i see him buddy up to tweet.
I have a weird reason as well that I'd rather not explain.

Farside, I would really like to know this weird reason please. Thanks!

You are being way to nice and it is really making me think you are trying to please people. I remember you being more antagonistic in the past and this BM is someone I don't recognize. it gives me the hebbie jebbies.

[farside22]

Farside happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.
MorningTweet happy with BM readslist. Votes for Xtoxm - not my top suspect. No explanation.

Tickle me curious!

You don't just go from townreading someone and advocating not lynching them today (all of the above), to being "99%" sure they're scum. This is exactly the sort of false bravado and confidence scum like to exhibit, and sometimes gets them townread:

I disagree with this. Scum will try and keep their reads as consistent as possible to avoid suspicion, especially a player as active as ABR. It's hard to read ABR this game, but the fact that he was willing to make a noted change to his reads as the game progressed has to be counted as townpoints, def not scummy.

This isn't true as a blanket statement at all, and varies from player to player. Are you aware of Albert's meta? Regardless, you need to look at each instance independently, and see if the switch is justified. Does his flip look justified based on that post I made? I really don't see it at all. I only surround myself with grey flags; you wouldn't find a red flag within touching distance of me.

VOTE: Albert

I want to hear the case, Albert.

This makes no sense.
If you think he is scum you should explain why.

In other news bm is warming my heart.
VOTE: xtoxm

I love it BM! Interesting that your gutread on Momo overrides the other scumleans, which have reasoning behind them. But i dont find that suspicious, im actually viewing that as a towny thing. i do feel like momo is one of those players who just kinda emits a scummy baseline regardless of alignment, though.

VOTE: Xtom

Pedit: maaan, am i gonna have to reevaluate iDany?

Well since Xtoxm has called me out, he has basically been floating through this game and doing nothing else game relevant. Seeing a lot of softball questions and I see no scum hunting or figuring players out. I haven't see him really push anyone as scum and looks like floating by scum.

[farside22]

On a similar note, can someone walk me through the BM wagon?

Gut/slimmy feeling when i see him buddy up to tweet.
I have a weird reason as well that I'd rather not explain.

Farside, I would really like to know this weird reason please. Thanks!

You are being way to nice and it is really making me think you are trying to please people. I remember you being more antagonistic in the past and this BM is someone I don't recognize. it gives me the hebbie jebbies.

Aww shucks...I think! I was actually meaning to drop you a PM outside the game (obviously not about the game!), but I'd better not now if you'll consider that scummy!

And to be fair, that's a very valid and observant read, so maybe you should vote for me!

Outside the game I would find it very nice and sincere.
See no trust in mafia.

[farside22]

Momo is MODERATE SCUM - Hard to really quantify, mostly a strong gut feeling. I just get super scummy vibes from his posting, including the wording used. Something to meta later. Could definitely see him as scum with Danyboy. And potentially with VaultDweller

Tell me more

I asked you first for your view on him.

I know this isn't directed at me, but he's had all of a few post. Made a few cases and blended into the background.
I just have him a a meh read right now.

[farside22]

*eats popcorn*
If given a choice between Mono or Hectic I'd lynch Mono. Can't we deal with Xtoxm today?

[farside22]

*eats popcorn*
If given a choice between Mono or Hectic I'd lynch Mono. Can't we deal with Xtoxm today?

Sadly not - Unless we are united, Minister ABR will, in his divine wisdom, kill Hectic. This might not be such a bad thing, but it's clearly inferior to the Momo-lynch of my dreams.

*eats popcorn*
If given a choice between Mono or Hectic I'd lynch Mono. Can't we deal with Xtoxm today?

Sadly not - Unless we are united, Minister ABR will, in his divine wisdom, kill Hectic. This might not be such a bad thing, but it's clearly inferior to the Momo-lynch of my dreams.

Yeah, fuck off with your barely 2 vote lurker hunt farside. Pick a side.

Uuuummmm i would pick bm since he's being nice, but i am scum reading more then lurkers.
I guess its okay for other people to not to bw as long as they don't participate in the game or say anything of importance, aye Abr.

[farside22]

Ooooo buzzwords and bitchness. A nerve had been hit.

vote: momo

[farside22]

Ooooo buzzwords and bitchness. A nerve had been hit.

i was kinda expecting that tbh

Yes Danyboy, why are you following the guy you CLAIM to suspect most, on his wagon of choice, rather than somebody you love and trust like me?

if i vote momo will u love me

Why were you expecting it?

zzzzzz

Anything you want to add to the game? Scum reads, who should be lynched?

oh lord, BM is openly scumclaiming

[farside22]

Ooooo buzzwords and bitchness. A nerve had been hit.

i was kinda expecting that tbh

Yes Danyboy, why are you following the guy you CLAIM to suspect most, on his wagon of choice, rather than somebody you love and trust like me?

if i vote momo will u love me

Why were you expecting it?

From what ive noticed from other players reactions to momo early game, i felt like he'd probably be the type of player to have a negative response to being wagoned as either alignment

Hectic *could* be scum, but that's only because i dont have a townread on him, not for anything specifically. id ask for someone to explain it to me, but im going to reread for myself first. there better be something more than ABR saying "HECTIC CONFIRM SCUM"

I didn't see him using buzzwords often when I checked is meta. Do you have a reference for him?

[farside22]

Why are you lurking?

Because he's scum and doing his best show no info when he flips scum.

[farside22]

an unofficial warning? for calling someone that for no reason? dude I'm out....

Please don't leave.
I am not condoning xtoxm comment or even understanding why he said it.
Just let it go and move on.

[farside22]

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

Far side - instead of trying to work things out with me she is just returning the scumread, bc she expects to win out against me. Otherwise doesnt feel townie. I played with her a lot in the past.

Hectic - my strongest tr is vote there (a50) and abr who I also tr keeps asking me to vote there. Most of the wagon is my townread or townleans. At some point I need to compromise. I dont tr any of the slots on the alternate momo wagon.

I am also confused why you seem to put weight on the things I say, yet have me as a sr. It seems contradictory.

I asked you a question. You never responded. I'm not going to chase you.
I've progressed forward to look for scum, you stayed stagnant without a good reason.
I would say my reason is more valid then yours.

[farside22]

@vecna
i dont know about your theory. i have not found blake suspicious.
BM is gaslighting me which is a scum thing.
i dont know what it means for hectic.
momo should be town i think. unless my reads this game are way off momo is being pushed by scum.

What about momo reads town? I checked his meta and i dont see it.

[farside22]

@vecna
i dont know about your theory. i have not found blake suspicious.
BM is gaslighting me which is a scum thing.
i dont know what it means for hectic.
momo should be town i think. unless my reads this game are way off momo is being pushed by scum.

What about momo reads town? I checked his meta and i dont see it.

# of slots pushing him that i either sr or asbent a tr
if momo is scum, then either
- my reads this game a drastically off (like more than just a few)
- scum are employing some kind of heavy bussing strategy

in isolation i dont think much of momo, i expect him to lurk as either alignment

VOTE: unvote, not lynching that claim. if hes scum hes locked himself into an awful claim.

I have the opposite where there are players voting hectic that i am not tr. 2 whom have really pinged me hard at this point.

In other news the claim and momo's behavoir make me more happy to keep my vote.

[farside22]

I'm not running anyone else up today. If a doc is out there he can safely guard Hectic without worrying about being forced to claim. I'm ready to wrap this up and go to night if you are too xtoxm.

im not eager to rush onto the cw, tbh
with momo immediately clarifying that its not a 3p claim
1-shot bulletproof claim basically? thats a claim that at this point in the day almost certainly results in momo being lynched. anti-survivalistic claims dont *usually* come from scum..
i think BM is the more likely scum in your hood.

Traps were used in the movie against people to kill them.
Bf/trap is an oxymoron to say the least, but i digress that momo play doesnt ring town as far as meta goes.
Holding back due to wagon analysis because out of 4 players (maybe 5) you had sr on more players there, reads fake reasoning to me.

[farside22]

I'm not running anyone else up today. If a doc is out there he can safely guard Hectic without worrying about being forced to claim. I'm ready to wrap this up and go to night if you are too xtoxm.

im not eager to rush onto the cw, tbh
with momo immediately clarifying that its not a 3p claim
1-shot bulletproof claim basically? thats a claim that at this point in the day almost certainly results in momo being lynched. anti-survivalistic claims dont *usually* come from scum..
i think BM is the more likely scum in your hood.

Traps were used in the movie against people to kill them.
Bf/trap is an oxymoron to say the least, but i digress that momo play doesnt ring town as far as meta goes.
Holding back due to wagon analysis because out of 4 players (maybe 5) you had sr on more players there, reads fake reasoning to me.

ok well you failing to townread me here is kind of a massive scumtell for you
im not going far into this game and whenever i flip will be a very bad look

Actually what I think is your game play thus far is bias.
I think you have set your mind up and decided you don't care to figure anyone or anything else out.
I wouldn't call that town. Wouldn't call that scum. Just calling a spade a spade.

And with that said I'm officially ignoring Xtoxm for however long we are both in this game together or until he grows a pair and actually plays the game as whatever alignment he is.

[farside22]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

This question can't be serious. If ABR says they believe momo is scum do you think it wasn't discussed? If it was, what is your take on the wagon and how it went?

[farside22]

So noone in there started a hunt of sorts to figure out which of the people in your hood were scum? And was pushing the rest to hunt scum in your hood?

If so, I don't mind it gave me a lot of insight as well.

[farside22]

BM, Pine, momo and I are in a hood. We believe momo is the scum. I was going to run Hectic up to L-1 to see who was eager to save momo and then shift onto momo last minute for the day 1 lynch.

How known within the hood is this sentiment?

This question can't be serious. If ABR says they believe momo is scum do you think it wasn't discussed? If it was, what is your take on the wagon and how it went?

Interesting.

You don't find that strange?

what i think blake is getting at, is that if this plan was discussed in the hood, and assuming scum can see the hood, then scum were never going to 'fall for it', since they already knew about it.

Even though it wasn't the case. What could scum do? They could either bus, if momo is scum or stay off the wagon.
I'm glad it wasn't discussed it gives my thoughts on the hectic wagon more credibility.

[farside22]

scum reads: Momo/Danny/George/blake/A50
I still have reads I'm not as sure about, Elsa, xtoxm, gammma, dave

[farside22]

we're not waiting for Pine? Ok well I want a piece of this.

Vote: Momo

If I die tonight, policy-lynch Xtoxm tomorrow obviously.

I counted a total of 9 votes on momo.
Pine could still get in here.

[farside22]

Im caught up

Any last minute objections y’all have 10 minutes

-------hammer!

[farside22]

It's open season on you Jigsaw's cronies from today until the last day.

I heard you like traps so I trapped you with Hectic's bandwagon yesterday.

I called EJ town in our PT and BM can fact-check that.

This is MY HOUSE. I rule this fucking game. Step up to me. I WILL WREAK HAVOC ON YOU. YOUR BEGGING WILL BE MET WITH NINE VOTES ON MY SIGNAL.

What do you mean by this.
I lost joy playing this game seeing 3 people dead that were all town and told the mod as much in not such nice terms.
Give me some hope to like this game again abr.

[farside22]

For anyone that cares. I was sent a pm last night that i was in a trap with pine and hectic. In order to save hectic one of us had to sacrific ourself. Pine agreed to save himself. Fat fucking bullshit that did.

[farside22]

VOTE: danny

[farside22]

FOUR OF THE REMAINING SCUM HIDE AMONG THESE SEVEN...

Gamma Emerald
VaultDweller
Vecna
iDanyboy
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Blake Belladonna

I CALL THEM THE FINAL FOUR...
I WILL GRIP THEIR BEATING HEARTS ONE BY ONE...
TOMORROW THERE WILL BE THREE...
NOURISH ME WITH YOUR VOTES... GIVE THEM TO ME...
THE FEAST I THROW WILL PUT TO SHAME THE HALL OF GLUTTONS IN THE THIRD CIRCLE OF HELL

Are we supposed to take this literally? Because im viting danny already

[farside22]

For anyone that cares. I was sent a pm last night that i was in a trap with pine and hectic. In order to save hectic one of us had to sacrific ourself. Pine agreed to save himself. Fat fucking bullshit that did.

not your fault - i'm not sure why Elsa chose to kill the Cop and himself? What was the alternative??

I had a similar thing. I was caught in a trap, and I couldn't walk out.

Because I love you too much baby

Couldn't post in my hood to celebrate the Day 1 lynch....so I will make up for it today!

Can you tell me if EJ chose to die in that trap? This is important.

I'm back. Haven't done a lot so far, except ISO dany, who seems to be the leading wagon D2 from what I can gather.

His reasoning for voting hectic was:

He has ~70 posts and he hasn't pushed anything.

Then MT replies with

he's pushing momo now

to which his response is

That's now not when I voted.

He continues voting hectic after this revelation, which he shouldn't, given his only reason for hectic is, "he's not pushing". I find this pretty scummy.

On the other hand I would expect him to move to momo when it's clear momo was going to get lynched. Though he didn't have any posts in that period, so it could be that he just wasn't online.

So I'm happy with this vote for now:

VOTE: iDanyboy

This looks like a lot of cherry picking of post.

VOTE: vault

@BM: There was a lot of PT/No PT's days 1. I thought abr had a list.

[farside22]

What did I leave out?

I am wary of you with your lack of post. You through out reads and then jump on this wagon.
Why dont you tell me who your scum reading and why.

[farside22]

What did I leave out?

I am wary of you with your lack of post. You throw out reads and then jump on this wagon.
Why dont you tell me who your scum reading and why.

Fixed my post in bold. Posting at 7am with little sleep is a bad idea

[farside22]

@vault: ill get back to you later. Id like to see your thoughts on the list abr made.
@bm: did you discuss anything with elsa?

[farside22]

For anyone that cares. I was sent a pm last night that i was in a trap with pine and hectic. In order to save hectic one of us had to sacrific ourself. Pine agreed to save himself. Fat fucking bullshit that did.

That's it? So, no "puzzle" to solve and no chance of all 3 of you surviving?

No. It was a trap jigsaw style.

[farside22]

I don't know what to say now.

Guilt got your tongue?

Well that was a very bloody night. Seems this game couldve also had a lot of townclears judging from those flips.

Which makes me wonder if those traps/games are initiated by scum to potentially get additional kills every night?

Even though ABR has been on point so far, id like to see his reasoning for removing a whole total of 10 people from the lynch list - since it seems everyone is sheeping that and just focusing on those 7. Which has the risk of leaving major blind spots.

Anyways im already softing here that I have more information thatll help us solve, but I think it smart to hold on to it for a little while longer

Surely it's obvious that at least some of the traps are initiated by scum? I mean, the flavour suggests that right??

I already figured you had info, so I don't think you have to worry about revealing. Not sure what it says about your alignment.

For anyone that cares. I was sent a pm last night that i was in a trap with pine and hectic. In order to save hectic one of us had to sacrific ourself. Pine agreed to save himself. Fat fucking bullshit that did.

not your fault - i'm not sure why Elsa chose to kill the Cop and himself? What was the alternative??

I had a similar thing. I was caught in a trap, and I couldn't walk out.

Because I love you too much baby

Couldn't post in my hood to celebrate the Day 1 lynch....so I will make up for it today!

Can you tell me if EJ chose to die in that trap? This is important.

You would need to tell me why it was important first, I'm afraid.

I'm back. Haven't done a lot so far, except ISO dany, who seems to be the leading wagon D2 from what I can gather.

His reasoning for voting hectic was:

He has ~70 posts and he hasn't pushed anything.

Then MT replies with

he's pushing momo now

to which his response is

That's now not when I voted.

He continues voting hectic after this revelation, which he shouldn't, given his only reason for hectic is, "he's not pushing". I find this pretty scummy.

On the other hand I would expect him to move to momo when it's clear momo was going to get lynched. Though he didn't have any posts in that period, so it could be that he just wasn't online.

So I'm happy with this vote for now:

VOTE: iDanyboy

This looks like a lot of cherry picking of post.

VOTE: vault

@BM: There was a lot of PT/No PT's days 1. I thought abr had a list.

Excellent, I'll ask him and do some research of my own and come up with something. Would be easier if people just came clean though

I may know why hectic died so im curious if elsa made a choice.
If it help, in a pt

[farside22]

Also bm: i had a theory in the trap pt that scum might see what was posted in the pt. I asked the mod and he said no comment.

[farside22]

Farside - who is in your PT?

Ummmm i we outing all pt's.
I will say one thing.

Danyboy's ISO is beyond dreadful, especially in light of Momo-scum.

I'm slightly leaning towards that over VaultDweller now. Especially if Vecna is town.

Both these players are in a pt with me, in the large one, neither have given me anything to go on in there.

[farside22]

Also bm: i had a theory in the trap pt that scum might see what was posted in the pt. I asked the mod and he said no comment.

[farside22]

Let me know when you can give me a few minutes bm

[farside22]

Can we clear up a theory i have bm, please.
George is in the pt. Blake no.

[farside22]

Also bm: i had a theory in the trap pt that scum might see what was posted in the pt. I asked the mod and he said no comment.

Maybe Jigsaw does. As Jigsaw is probably not in a PT.

I think maybe we should be hunting Jigsaw today to reduce the damage from traps - what do you think?

Who do you think is scummiest in your PT? who is getting a lot of heat? Any inconsistencies with posting in the main thread? Not sure if useful to share here or not, so leave to your judgement how much to say.

I didn't think about that. It would make sense for a flavor point.

Can we clear up a theory i have bm, please.
George is in the pt. Blake no.

Great, and presumably Hectic wasn't?

Hectic was.

@Farside - Gamma and Davesaz are presumably the final 2 with you?

Are you factoring in that Pine was in two hoods?

Yes, I currently have the following on the 7 person hood:

Vaultdweller
Danyboy
Farside
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Hectic

and 1 more from:

Davesaz and Gamma Emerald

Both dave and GM. There is 8 in there.

[farside22]

Pine, Blake, and I are the only ones in my PT. rip pine

It'd be nice if someone consolidated the PT claims cause i'm getting a little mixed up-- i thought Vecna was in the momo/BM/ABR PT too for some reason. I can also consolidate them sometime later too

Are you factoring in that Pine was in two hoods?

Yes, I currently have the following on the 7 person hood:

Vaultdweller
Danyboy
Farside
GeorgeBailey
Drixx
Hectic

and 1 more from:

Davesaz and Gamma Emerald

Don't mind me as I consolidate the list
PT: ABR/Pine/BM/Mono

Not in a PT by word of mouth:
Almost50
xtoxm
pisskop
bb
Vecna

Let me know if I missed something.

[farside22]

ah thanks Farside - I can count then, I just can't read....

Please be kind enough to join me in lynching Jigsaw today, to avenge the horrors we experience last night.

A50/Xtoxm/pisskop

I added pisskop because is day 2 interaction looks really off, but those 3 are part of the non-pt list I would call scum reads.

[farside22]

separately I do agree about Pisskop, but we can come to that another day.

Can you talk to me about your A50 town read. I looked at his post and I saw a lot of tunnelling on EJ and I don't see him really scum hunting.

[farside22]

with Xtoxm, I have respect for his skill as a player and I feel his d1 play was so disengaged / bad associatively that it makes him less likely to be scum? I could see myself ultimately sheeping there but the lack of involvement and vanity farside push doesn't seem like a great plan/scheme to set him up to go far here. A50 feels more like someone who may be scum trying to deepwolf

From everything I know that happened last night, Xtoxm is a strong bet for Jigsaw.

Trust me.

VOTE: xtoxm

[farside22]

thanks for modding cakez,

really interesting setup.
i have to agree that this setup is scumsided.

i love the trap ideas u put in it though.

Agreed. I may not have said it but i loved the traps and idea behind it. Day 1 i know the trap i was in was killing at least one player. Saving the cop just to see him die really killed my hope for town.

I definitely wanted more different people to get put in the Games. It was a difficult design choice because I couldn't just say someone can't get put in a game twice, because then scum lose way too much control over killing power.

No i wouldn't happen the scum that way either.

Up until day 4 scum were worried about getting decimated themselves. Like I said in my earlier post, all it would have taken was farside's shot to hit pisskop or a guilty and the game would have blown open for town. Unforgiving yes, but both ways.

Im still kicking myself too.