Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Dunnstral]

feathers/nausi

why does everyone insist on spelling my username this way

It's spelled that way in the 1st post

The mystery has been solved

[Dunnstral]

Do we know why nobody died?

[Dunnstral]

Blair Replaces FreddieTheLady
Alortom Replaces Votato
Battlemage Replaces Formerfish
BBmolla Replaces Osuka.


Lilith2013 has requested replacement. Adding an additional 2 days to the deadline due to the volume of replacements.

The b team

[Dunnstral]

Uh... I agree with what Battle mage pointed out. In post 1122 quoted above, the implication/thought process is that Freddie was considering fake claiming, but they're not good at it so they're not going to, so they're 'just' claiming VT

[Dunnstral]

I just read pages 45-50; I suggest all new troops take a look at those pages as well

[Dunnstral]

Doc/jk should probably breadcrumb their target from last night in case they die.

Doc/Jk can't breadcrumb anything when attention is called to it like this

[Dunnstral]

-VOTE: lilith2013 this slot needs sorting. Hi lilith would you like to join us more for day 2? Because otherwise you are exiting before day 3 kthxbai

She has 185 posts though, and she had most of those when you posted this. So what gives? That seems like plenty to me

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Blair

What I've seen from Freddie feels like scum. Votato looks like he is defending his irl friend without much in-game basis just because they're friends (just calling it how I see it). Formerfish looks like town. Osuka idk

[Dunnstral]

Replacement is a good suspect due to the whole issue of newbies replacing out of scum rolls in their first games.

Player List

Tuxedo Mask

CopyKat

BBmolla

Osuka

iamironcat *

gibus
Alortom

votato *

Nauci

feathers *

Blair

Freddiethelady *

Dunnstral

lilith2013 (SE)

Wavesarc

brassherald (SE) *

Battle Mage

Formerfish (SE)

[Dunnstral]

I am currently past page 8.

Spoiler: wall of notes

- 53: Freddie votes ironcat/osuka with what looks to be a “serious” reason, but the reason itself is not valid. Says ironcat/osuka is flipflopping but the two quotes she posted are from the first and then second game roll, so not a valid serious reason. It feels like she was trying to fit in with RVS but tried too hard to come up with a real reason for voting ironcat/osuka. Was this an actually serious vote? ( =/+ Freddie depending on answer)
- 81 to 84: Gibus asks feathers/nausi if they are scum. Feathers/nausi claims VT and then gibus “claims” VT and votes feathers/nausi in the same post. Gibus’ vote seems like simultaneously “noobtownslipping” but voting feathers/nausi for doing the same thing. ( + gibus; - gibus & feathers/nausi team)
- 93 to 95: Gibus votes Freddie, says he’s trying to get us out of RVS, then votes brass/wavesarc. The reasoning behind switching the votes around isn’t really valid but I don’t think it’s AI.
- 110: Votato asks me why I voted gibus, but doesn’t explain why he voted gibus. Could be trying to soft defend a scumbuddy here ( + votato; possibly + votato & gibus team)
- 111: Feathers/nausi is townreading votato and maybe Freddie (but doesn’t give reasons for townreading Freddie); scumreading gibus but doesn’t vote gibus; and scumreading people who are “lurking” but actually weren’t lurking, including me, who he is voting. Reads on Freddie and gibus are probably the weirdest here. ( + feathers; + feathers/nausi & Freddie team; + feathers/nausi & gibus team; - feathers/nausi & votato team)
- 115: votato seems to be either strongly townreading feathers or TMIing (“since you’re town” seems like votato knows feathers is town here when town!votato wouldn’t know feathers’ alignment for sure). Will need to watch out for future posts implying one or the other. Also some soft defense of me. ( + votato)
- 116: Freddie is fencesitting on gibus (“Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act”) then questions why I voted gibus right after votato asks the same question, even though I just explained it. Further shades me for “being more experienced than I’m letting on” even though that like… isn’t possible, since I’m not trying to hide experience.. Could be noobscum following in scumpartner votato’s footsteps in questioning me and defending gibus, resulting in trying to shade my slot without actually hard pushing; or possibly scum!freddie getting overly concerned with my vote on scumpartner gibus ( + Freddie; + Freddie & votato team; + Freddie & gibus team)
- 119: Freddie calls me out for defending ironcat/osuka when all I said was that he wasn’t lurking, but also says it might not be AI but is “interesting.” More fencesitting. Probably wouldn’t call someone out who was siding with their scumpartner, so less likely to be scum with ironcat/osuka slot. ( + Freddie; - Freddie & ironcat/osuka team)
- 120: a bit more soft defense of my slot from votato.
- 122: feathers/nausi says vote is on gibus because switching votes a lot and wanting RVS to end are scum indicative, which is actually wrong. Ironcat/osuka later uses this reasoning to scumread me. Not sure if this is AI in either case, as the logic is just bad but not necessarily scummy.
- 124: Freddie shades me for “not posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better” being suspicious. Immediately backs off after my response. Could go either way on this one.
- 129: more soft defense of my slot from votato. I think could be trying to buddy me. ( + votato)
- 137 and 140: Ironcat/osuka votes Freddie for questioning gibus’ ping ponging votes, and says Freddie is trying to “buddy him with Lilith.” What does this even mean? Also Freddie isn’t the one who called ironcat/osuka out for lurking, it was gibus; and Freddie didn’t push ironcat/osuka at all. This seems like an overly focused post to Freddie when Freddie isn’t even scumreading or pushing ironcat/osuka. Likely not SvS. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 144: gibus says at least one of me/Freddie is town. Votato immediately pops into thread to ask why. Gibus responds that freddie’s and my argument about whether I was defending ironcat looks like “something we would have gone through in a PT if they both were scum.” Then says “little chance for [distancing] since Lilith planned on leaving RVS by voting for me, and shifting the spotlight to both of them would look bad as scum.” This looks like town reasoning, although I disagree that this kind of disagreement couldn’t be manufactured by scumpartners. ( - gibus)
- 148: Ironcat/osuka says “it’s funny how Freddie is saying that flipping is a mafia move,” again incorrectly ascribing someone else’s post (feathers) to Freddie in order to build a read on them. Then ironcat/osuka FOSes me for reasons unclear, says I would “put the blame on Freddie.” Suddenly switches to townread on Freddie and scumread on me with no explanation and no additional posts from either Freddie or myself to inform that change in read. A weird interaction, I think it’s more likely to be scum flipping read on town than two scumpartners. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 151: Feathers/nausi questions ironcat/osuka – why is ironcat/osuka voting Freddie but also worried Freddie would be blamed for a kill?
- 155 to 159: Ironcat/osuka responds with “don’t worry, I’m suspicious of you as well. Who said that Freddie would be blamed?” when…. that’s exactly what he said about Freddie. In 157, he’s still supposedly scumreading Freddie though, and in 159 says that if I’m scum, that I could kill people who suspect me and blame Freddie since ironcat/osuka suspected Freddie too. Once again, this implies townreading Freddie even though reads list says Freddie is a scumread. Could be inadvertent TMI (knows Freddie is town). Also I’m the highest scumread even though ironcat/osuka only suspects me by association with Freddie.. This is a cagey way to start scumreading me and pushing original Freddie read to the side. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)
- 160 and 161: votato votes ironcat/osuka for misunderstanding ironcat/osuka’s list as being “all the scumreads” rather than “list of scummiest to towniest.” Not sure if AI, but could be trying to soft defend me or Freddie here since those are ironcat/osuka’s two top scumreads. ( + votato & Freddie team)
- In 153, gibus says “quicksolve: brass, Lilith, formerfish” but doesn’t vote brass until several hours later in 166, as if he forgot that he should be voting who he scumreads most and had to be reminded. ( + gibus)
- 189: ironcat/osuka and votato misunderstanding over the “suspicion list” doesn’t seem like SvS. Ironcat/osuka’s explanation for why he is scumreading Freddie doesn’t actually mention Freddie at all. ( + ironcat/osuka; - ironcat/osuka & votato team)
- 190 and 192: Ironcat/osuka suddenly votes me based on associatives, horrible reason to vote. He hasn’t found anything that I’ve actually done up to this point that is scummy, but is voting me based on association with Freddie. Freddie suddenly becomes his strongest townread, so they could be scumpartners intending to both end up pushing me all along. ( + ironcat/osuka; + ironcat/osuka & Freddie team)

Spoiler: conclusions thus far

scumpool of {freddie, ironcat/osuka, votato}
- votato seemed to be soft defending me from freddie as well as soft defending me & freddie from ironcat/osuka, which comes across as WKing or chainsaw if freddie is also scum; also has a very strong townread on feathers/nausi which could be TMIing on that slot.
- freddie was fencesitting on gibus yet in the same post soft defending him; and was fencesitty on me when I said ironcat wasn't lurking. Also shaded me/others for things that weren't AI (including the "lurking", "being more experienced than I'm letting on" and not being friendly/helpful enough).
- ironcat seems to focus overly much on pushing freddie slot and calling them scum. He called me scum by association with Freddie, then after being questioned, suddenly flipped his read on Freddie without flipping the read on me that was formed by association with a scum!Freddie. He didn't provide any other reason for scumreading me.

Questions up to this point:

@Freddie, was 53 actually a serious vote?
@votato, why did you vote gibus in 78?

For freddie to be town here, there are so many exact pieces that have to not line up in her thought process for her to claim after a hammer on someone else.

Here's the sequence of events:
1) she put wave to L-1 and knew to announce it
2) I declared intent to hammer and asked wave to claim
3) wave claimed
4) wave voted freddie to L-1
5) fish fakehammered
6) votato said in 1088 that wasn't a hammer, he was already on the wagon
7) literally no one has asked freddie to claim thus far. votato even says no need to claim since no one has declared intent to hammer.
8) fish hammers wave and it's clear they are discussing wave having already been lynched.
9) freddie claims VT.

so freddie claimed:
- after freddie herself was the one who declared waves at L-1
- after she sees someone hammering waves
- after no one told her to claim or declared intent to hammer her
- after votato specifically said not to claim
- after multiple people are clearly discussing waves already being dead

She has to have not seen

all of these things

in order for town!freddie to think she needs to claim, which makes literally no sense because she was the one who put waves at L-1 in the first place. If she was confused about the gamestate, she could have even asked, "am I supposed to claim?" to make sure. There's literally no need for her to claim. at all.

so why claim then?

for towncred. like, look at me being so noobtown that I claim even when I'm not the lynch. I can't even tell when someone else's wagon was hammered! That can't be real.

I think these posts are awesome so I'm calling attention to them

Gibus & Tuxedo Mask, do you guys agree or disagree with the contents of these posts?

[Dunnstral]

Gibus

Gibus casts what is ostensibly an RVS vote for Brassherald (Wavesarc) as the first in a series of 9 rapid-fire votes over the course of his next 13 consecutive posts, beginning here:

VOTE: Brassherald

And ending back on Brassherald again, here:

I'll just stick with brass for now. VOTE: brassherald

He then reiterates his Brassherald (Wavesarc) vote here (this was not a vote movement, his vote was already on him):

Quicksolve: brass, lilith, formerfish

VOTE: brassherald

Much later, after FormerFish has started the wagon that will eventually mislynch Wavesarc, Gibus rejoins as the second vote on the wagon:

Do not scumread me for this please, but I'm going to sheep Fish and Nauci and change my vote in 3 posts.
VOTE: brassherald (wavesarc)

---

Now we editorialize:

It seems

extremely

arrogant of me to suggest a solve so early in the game, but here's what may have happened:

Gibus made up his mind from early in the game that he was gunning for Brassherald (Wavesarc). I won't pretend to read his mind and guess why, but the fact that he was is more than evident.

FormerFish started a wagon on Brassherald (Wavesarc) and Gibus jumped on board. As it became more evident that Wavesarc was not going to get any townier and he became a more and more viable lynch, FormerFish blinked first. The fact that he jumped back in to hammer without much rhyme or reason suggests that FormerFish didn't mind lynching Wavesarc, he just didn't like seeing his name right next to Gibus in the vote count.

Theory:

FormerFish/Gibus Scum team?

VOTE: Gibus

I'll start here because Gibus is still here to talk to us about the above. We'll have more to talk to FormerFish's replacement about after he reacts to his partner's tragic lynching today.

Hark! Let us commence our steadfast march toward a glorious town victory!

I don't 'get' this. Why is it likely for Gibus to have wanted to mislynch Wavesarc from the start, vs that being a real read that formed?

[Dunnstral]

I thought it was a case

[Dunnstral]

I don't get how it is a factual observation - has Gibus admitted to it?

You're saying that he wanted to lynch Wave from the start of the game - it looks like they disagreed with you above.

[Dunnstral]

If you disagree, say so and provide evidence, instead of asking vague questions without acknowledging the posts and vote history I have already provided in the post you quoted.

(Dunnstral should also weigh in soon with his actual opinion instead of continuing to frame this as a conversation between Gibus and myself)

My opinion is that you're strangely aggressive over what is essentially a misunderstanding

[Dunnstral]

We've played together before, Dunnstral; I'm strangely aggressive all the time, but I don't feel like I've been aggressive about this?

ok

I'm not trying to frame anything, I'm misunderstanding what you're trying to do; I read it and it looks like you're trying to put forward a theory that gibus is scum, and outlining what he is doing as scum and how it is scummy, my initial response was that I didn't see how it was more likely to be a scum tactic than someone changing their read as the day goes on.

Granted, I haven't read the entire push onto Wave by Gibus/Formerfish

[Dunnstral]

So I don't really have a 'theory' relating to Gibus, I was reacting to the posts you quoted and your response to it

[Dunnstral]

1) mafia is a mental and perception game. If you're going to be an asshole and get on everyone's cases when people discuss what your actions imply about your motivations, then you may want to reconsider playing this game. this is now the.. second? time you've been an asshole to someone because they were looking at how your posts represent your motivations, which is literally the point of the game.
2) I haven't even tried to ascribe emotions to you in the first place. here I'm saying that you are acting angry, not that you're angry.
3) if you're not actually upset when you've made these posts, then you're just being way more of an asshole than you need to be.
4) where did you tell me to "ask about you"?
5) I haven't "targeted" you at all, I think it's interesting that you seem to think I've picked you out of the crowd when I'm literally voting someone else and have interacted with multiple other slots.
6) I'm not particularly interested in engaging with people who are being assholes as a principle, but I'll happily be an asshole right back since you seem pretty determined.

1. There is a difference between "A did x therefore i find them to be y" and "A is triggered, must be scum" and if you dont see that then whatever, but dont fucking rag out on me and cunt the thread up with this shit.

2. I think its funny that anyone would try to ascertain my emote during those posts. None of you know me well enough to read me based on me personally, and if you did then you would realize that this is all shtick from me right now.

3. I feel like everyone has missed the few posts where I have tried to pivot on to other things, or where I have tried to indicate that I was joking.

You are all taking me way too seriously and i dont know how to tell you that because youve painted me into a corner by calling my emotions into play here. If i defend myself and deny then im a thing, if i ignore and try to move past because this is the stupidest shit ive heard for a sr in while i get called out for being silent and it gets taken as admission of guilt.

Its literally a catch 22.

4. I get lost in posts sometimes and that was more directed at Ironcat, which is who most of that post was directed at. You just saw your name and went off half cunt and here we are. Most of this could have been avoided if you had simply asked a question about my post and not just flooding the thread with your vitriol.

5. Not to you, this is when i was ranting about Iron. You were just an innocent bystandard in this.

6. Before you assume someone is being an asshole, maybe engage with them in good faith. Why the fuck do i want to talk to you if this is how you react to a miscommunication.

And seriously fuck you for the pretentious pronoun correction, it was a valid question and i could have answered it easily if i knew for sure you were talking about me.

You are probably thinking about when i called you out for shading me a few times for no reason before i even really started playing, but if this is how you play then i can understand your persecution complex. Who did you mistake me for by the way? Someone must have been gettig after you if it wasnt me.

My read list right now from town to scum

[gibus, votato, feathers]

[CopyKat, ironcat]

[brassherald, Freddie]

[Formerfish, lilith2013]

I'm colourblind and I had to look up hex codes for the colours lol

OK, so yellow means null.
Did you think Formerfish and lilith2013 were both scum together, or just one of the two scum? Because it seems pretty wild that you'd suspect them of both being scum with their ongoing conversation (quoted post is technically after your reads but you didn't really react)

[Dunnstral]

Gibus is town

Why?

VOTE: Dunstral

Why?

[Dunnstral]

So what's the argument for Dunnstral (lilith) being scum?

Few things off of the top of my head

-Beetlejuicing on Day 1
-under reacting to Formerfish on Day 1
-mostly IIOA commentary on the fiasco on day 2 instead of specific evolution of her reads on Day 2
-I never trust Dunnstral

I liked her posts on day 1, but they kind of only happened when several people would mention her, so I had her as null then, but I felt like she took the opportunity on day 2 of the drama to mostly rehash stuff instead of give reads, even if they were very helpful posts.

What does under reacting to FormerFish mean?

Beetlejuicing: whatever, she wasn't scum and she's an experienced player anyway

IIOA commentary: I think her posting day 2 is very good and she puts forward reads in that.

[Dunnstral]

Not a lot of investment on my end, I'm kind of waiting for other people to post thoughts for me to react to

[Dunnstral]

I'm on page 2, Lillith (now Dunn) is scum for helping in 40

Feather (Nauci) is town for townslipping

gibus is town for being excited and unafraid

former was kind of being a douche

gibus is fucking hilarious

also, I looked up noob on the mafiawiki page of abbreviations and couldn't find it. would someone explain what it means, please.

how

lilith is for sure scum

I think copykat's switch from defending gibus ("scum wouldn't be trying to out masons in this thread") to attacking a "scumslip" feel contrived to me, like he is trying to get on the bandwagon as fast as possible and needs something to attack gibus for. Typically I think scum are more likely to attack something like that so suddenly and aggressively.

VOTE: copykat

I think this is L-2

disgusting vote

VOTE: Dunstral

Are we going to let this guy get away with this depth of reads?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: bbmolla

This is the osuka slot if you'd like.

[Dunnstral]

I gave reasons, look a few posts back.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: gibus

No need for that, I'm afraid

[Dunnstral]

(Blair is probably scum)

[Dunnstral]

I will suggest the following claim order:

Tuxedo mask
Dunnstral
Nausi
Blair
Aloratom
Battle Mage

slight change, we're gonna go:

Tuxedo mask
Blair
Dunnstral
Nausi
Aloratom
Battle Mage

That's fine with me.

[Dunnstral]

I'm defining lolhammering/quickhammering as making the final vote before A: declaring intent to do so and waiting for the claim, and B: not allowing town a reasonable amount of time for discussion when there's more than like 6 hours to deadline. Dug through a buttload of Dunnstral's games from the last year or so. I omitted games with special setups since I don't have the time to figure those out and it would change the dynamic, and micro games. Here's mostly mini and large normals and a few newbie games.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11467331

Dunnstral Town

, survived 5 days,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=81317

Dunnstral Town

, survived 6 days,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=81560

Dunnstral Town

, Lynched Day 2,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80463

Dunnstral Town

, Killed Night 2,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81655

Dunnstral Town, Lynched Day 1

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11487994

Dunnstral Mafia Goon

, Survived 4 days, basically

lolhammered Day 3

(https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11487994), lolhammered Day 4 but that doesn't count because that's scum victory

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=81319

Dunnstral Town

, Survived 3 Days,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... start=1675

Dunnstral Town

, Survived 3 days with Mafia victory,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80601

Dunnstral Mafia Goon,

Lynched Day 2,

lolhammered Day 1

(https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11204586)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80492

Dunnstral Town

, Survived 3 days (Mafia Wins),

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80162

Dunnstral Town

, Lynched Day 1, obviously

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=80296

Dunnstral Mafia

, Won with Mafia,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80455

Dunnstral Town

, Lynched Day 1,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=80327

Dunnstral Town

, Lynched Day 2,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=80044

Dunnstral Town

, Survived 3 days (town victory),

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=79944

Dunnstral Town

, Killed Night 3,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=78822

Before I get to the Dunnstral analysis, this game looks like it was WILD. Boonskies/Flavor leaf on Mafia, 144 pages for a Mini Normal, fake miller claim that got FL past a friggin investigation guilty. We should all skim this sometime because :popcorn:

Dunnstral town

, replaced in Day 3, killed Night 3,

no lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=78471

Dunnstral Mafia

, Survived 5 days to win,

did not lolhammer

except for final mafia victory vote

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79079

Dunnstral Town

, Killed Night 3,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=77413

Dunnstral Mafia

, Lynched Day 6? There's some weird mechanics I'm not bothering to read.

Did not lolhammer.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=79344

Dunnstral Town

, Lynched Day 2,

did not lolhammer

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=78440

Dunnstral Town

, Died Night 3,

Did not lolhammer

===

I stopped looking at that point because there were several non-normal games and I had enough. Didn't find an instance of Dunnstral quickhammering as town, and I'm not sure if I ever even saw an instance of town!Dunnstral hammering as town period.

I swear that I had a few games with him back when I played in 2017 ish but apparently my memory is shit because I only found 1 game of mine where he was scum and he didn't get a chance to quickhammer because scum was lynched day 1 and he was lynched day 2. It's possible that I was mixing him up with Not_Mafia's ridiculous quickhammering? I don't think it matters because the above is sufficient.

VOTE: Dunnstral Who's your partner bruv?

I'm so dead ass confident about this one I think we should lynch even though it's MYLO.

HAHAHAHAHA





Wait, you're serious?

Sorry - you wasted your time

[Dunnstral]

I will suggest the following claim order:

Tuxedo mask
Dunnstral
Nausi
Blair
Aloratom
Battle Mage

slight change, we're gonna go:

Tuxedo mask
Blair
Dunnstral
Nausi
Aloratom
Battle Mage

That's fine with me.

Better yet, maybe Dunnstral can explain why mass claiming is the right play here.

Because it's mylo

[Dunnstral]

It looks like they're saying they'll claim if people agree to it - I don't read that as dodging

[Dunnstral]

Woah woah woah woah, slow down, are you guys really going to lynch me before I get a chance to claim my role?

I'm the

Tracker

.

My slot targeted Formerfish night 1 - Received no result (implying a roleblocker or jailkeeper -> there has to be a jailkeeper because someone stopped a kill and it wasn't me)
I targeted Blair night 2 (my biggest scumspect, softed it the day before) and saw her target Aloratom - that's why I wanted to massclaim, because Blair would be claiming before me

About what happened with Gibus: he was pretty obviously not the jailkeeper and I didn't want to give him the opportunity to claim pr before being lynched (because that would mean he's scum and I'd need to lynch him anyway, outting my own role in the process)

So Blair is either the Jailkeeper or she's mafia. Freddie claimed vt and I doubt that player gambits the claim like that.... so it's looking like we found our roleblocker

VOTE: Blair

[Dunnstral]

Woah woah woah woah, slow down, are you guys really going to lynch me before I get a chance to claim my role?

I'm the

Tracker

.

My slot targeted Formerfish night 1 - Received no result (implying a roleblocker or jailkeeper -> there has to be a jailkeeper because someone stopped a kill and it wasn't me)
I targeted Blair night 2 (my biggest scumspect, softed it the day before) and saw her target Aloratom - that's why I wanted to massclaim, because Blair would be claiming before me

About what happened with Gibus: he was pretty obviously not the jailkeeper and I didn't want to give him the opportunity to claim pr before being lynched (because that would mean he's scum and I'd need to lynch him anyway, outting my own role in the process)

So Blair is either the Jailkeeper or she's mafia. Freddie claimed vt and I doubt that player gambits the claim like that.... so it's looking like we found our roleblocker

VOTE: Blair

Why role blocker and not rolecop?

I was roleblocked so it can't be the doctor/rolecop setup

[Dunnstral]

winning move as scum here would have been to claim Jailkeeper.

You'd die for sure. You still have a chance of lynching me by pushing whatever you're doing now

[Dunnstral]

correction: you'd die AND there's a tracker and jailkeeper in play, both claimed but at the very least the jailkeeper gets a result, so town almost assuredly wins

So no - you have to try to get me lynched today to win and you have to play towards that

[Dunnstral]

If scum Blair claims jailkeeper here, she gets cc'd by the real jailkeeper and she gets lynched

We then move into the night; mafia have to nightkill me or else I get a result on who isn't mafia with my track ability (removing me as an option for a mislynch), jailkeeper jailkeeps someone and they're confirmed not mafia because they're blocked. Then they get to do that again the next day; they can announce who they're roleblocking in thread publicly ahead of time, so even if they die they get a result

[Dunnstral]

And let's not forget that freddie claimed vt. So no, you'd never be able to claim jailkeeper.

[Dunnstral]

Why would Town!Dunnstral claim here?

I have an incriminating result. I was waiting until mass claim and after Blair claimed but it's clear that people are phoning it in on me being scum and the general public doesn't want to mass claim anymore

[Dunnstral]

claiming vt when I claimed you visited someone is a counterclaim, in fact.

[Dunnstral]

Blair's argument is stinky

None of what she is saying holds up under scrutiny.

[Dunnstral]

He was hedging his bets just in case I really was.

If you claimed jailkeeper and nobody counter claimed, I would unvote you, yes. Why does that make me scum?

I don't think it's very likely at all for that to have happened, no - that's why I voted you

[Dunnstral]

Scum pair is Dunnstral and Battle Mage, they came into MYLO with an agenda they are pushing hard. Do not lynch Blair. If isn't Battle Mage it's Alortom.

Take a moment to think this through. Look at blair's arguments.

[Dunnstral]

What do you mean? Bbmolla flipped town

[Dunnstral]

Reminder that Blair scum has to try to lynch me today - no lynch isn't good for her

[Dunnstral]

(Blair is probably scum)

This - it's the reason I tracked you

Lilith may have crumbed for what happened night 1 - I'm not sure.

[Dunnstral]

Do you disagree?

I haven't made any read on him, but I'm thinking you both are masons.

Do you disagree?

I haven't made any read on him, but I'm thinking you both are masons.

if you aren't scum that is

Because he thought other people were a mason pair early into the game - he essentially claimed vt at this point - no way town pr thinks someone else can be a mason.
I didn't want to give him a chance to fake a claim

[Dunnstral]

That's why he was "obviously vt or scum"

[Dunnstral]

It's also why Nauci is wasting her time going through dozens of my games looking for a quick hammer

He essentially already claimed. Deadline was approaching. I made the correct play - I didn't want to get into an argument and maybe have to claim my role before I could get a result

[Dunnstral]

Or he's a newbie in his second game on the site who doesn't understand the (needlessly complicated) semi-open setup.

I'm not saying that's definitely true. I am saying you definitely would have considered that possibility.

I think it's pretty clearly laid out that masons can't exist with any other town power role - you're reaching to try to counter my points

[Dunnstral]

I don't usually game theory this kind of thing, but I feel like the logical route here is for TPR to claim only if they have successfully detected scum

^ This is the correct play.

If you have caught scum, you should claim. If you have cleared town, find a way to crumb it in case you're killed.

The entire premise of your claim was predicated on a lie, as well. Nauci was the only one aiming to lynch you today. I was explicitly supporting a no lynch.

Why would Town!Dunnstral claim here?

Her thoughts aren't lining up. She's throwing stuff out to try to fight against me. Read these two posts

[Dunnstral]

If you believed that was such a strong argument that he was basically claiming VT in post 234, then why are you lying about being afraid that you'd have to claim to get him lynched if he claimed a PR?

It's a strong argument to me. I'm not sure how other people will react. I decided to trust my own instincts.

[Dunnstral]

Tracking isn't "caught scum." You yourself admitted I could be JK and you would unvote if I was.

Who's reaching now?

You were 95% scum with my result since your predecessor awkwardly claimed vt unprompted and said they were 'bad at creating fakeclaims' or something like that

[Dunnstral]

If he was that worried about it he could have let him claim and then hammered right after if he claimed a PR

That puts a target on my back for the scum to kill me. And maybe other people unvote him before I can hammer, etc. Not worth it. Nice to see this is what your argument has devolved into, though

[Dunnstral]

The only thing you can do is call me scum for the hammer

How about you who pushed him for all of last phase when pressure was building on yourself?

[Dunnstral]

Notice something really important, by the way:

In Dunnstral's claim, he leaves the door open for me to possibly be the Jailkeeper - even though he is now arguing that there is a 0% chance that anyone would ever believe that (wouldn't that implicitly include him?)

He was hedging his bets just in case I really was.

This post is interesting.

Blair says I'd be 'hedging my bets' in case she was the jailkeeper

But the reason I'd think she's the jailkeeper in the first place is because I tracked her to Alortom.

...! This doesn't make sense for her to think as town

[Dunnstral]

...! This doesn't make sense for her to think as town

It's almost as if I was *gasp* viewing it from your perspective!

You know, like I very plainly was.

Why would you be considering my town point of view if you insist that I must be lying because you're counterclaiming me?

[Dunnstral]

I don't remember there being pressure on me. One, maybe two people angled suspicion toward me?

I wanted him to claim at L-1. You didn't. You tell me who looks worse for that.

Denial isn't a good look

[Dunnstral]

The only setup where Dunnstral isn't confirmed scum is C2.

Uh... what, there isn't even a tracker in that setup

[Dunnstral]

I'm not going to get counterclaimed.

[Dunnstral]

There is a jailkeeper soft in thread that aligns with my current reads.

If I were mafia I would have killed that over bbmolla. Just saying.

Should I out the soft? Asking non-blair players.

[Dunnstral]

Nah I only realized it when I took a closer look at your roleblock target; you've been pr hunting it seems; Blair probably roleblocked the JK last night; she has an inkling on who it is already. Reminder that mafia rb takes precedence over town jailkeeper

I looked deeper into the iso of the predecessor of the player she roleblocked:

We aren't lynching Freddie. That was so clearly not scum play.

Freddie's play clearly came from noobtown. The timing of the claim does not come from scum. She was obviously confused after your role fishing.
Also, what have you learned from your gambit? You said you'd have the game solved, but here you are going for blood on an obvtown slot.
Doc/jk should probably breadcrumb their target from last night in case they die.

There could be a jailkeeper who locked up either the target or the mafia executing the kill

It looks to me that

Alartom

is the

Jailkeeper

and he jailkept

Blair

on night 1.

Remember how there was no night kill on night 1? That means that Blair was either the target of the kill, or the one doing the killing; do you guys really think a claimed vt slot that was flailing and under pressure would be targeted for the kill?

Here's more softing:

I'm not so much for a Blair/Freddie hook today.

Notice the use of the word 'hook', aka hooker, aka a roleblocker

Alartom

, you're making a big mistake by not pushing

Blair

here - it should be

pretty clear

that she's scum from your point of view.

As for me outting my thoughts here:

scum already know

, as evidenced by Blair's targetting. You're better off outting today and claiming who you're going to jailkeep the next day. Blair is the roleblocker - lynch her and we've got tracker + jailkeeper - you announce your target, I'll check someone else, maf has to kill me, you've got a clear, then you can do that 1 more time for a 2nd clear, I think it turns into auto win if I can convince you to move to Blair today.

[Dunnstral]

Now that I'm realizing that, this is interesting:

My slot targeted Formerfish night 1 - Received no result (implying a roleblocker or jailkeeper -> there has to be a jailkeeper because someone stopped a kill and it wasn't me)

It never occurred to Dunnstral that there could be a Doctor in the setup, because it never occurred to him that we could be in B3.

Because he's known we weren't in that column since Day 2.

I was roleblocked. There's no roleblocker in B3, from town or mafia. Ergo, we can't be in B3.

[Dunnstral]

+For clarification, if anyone is still confused:

Receiving 'no result' is different from getting a message saying 'your target didn't go anywhere'. It means my action failed. That + nobody dying at night + my own role told me what setup we are in

[Dunnstral]

I'm not going to get counterclaimed.

I'm pretty sure we are not in C2 so enjoy sweating this one out.

How can you be 'pretty sure' of that, anyway? You're claiming vt!

[Dunnstral]

Every living player has posted after I claimed, by the way.

[Dunnstral]

If you think Blair and I are both scum together, why don't you vote Blair instead of me? That way you're not lynching the town pr if you're wrong....

Fun Game for New Players Time: Spot why the above post is a complete scum fakeclaim giveaway! And then lynch it with me.

Whatever reason you think you have is wrong. Or rather, why don't you point to what you're talking about instead of vaguely gesturing

[Dunnstral]

Go on...

[Dunnstral]

ok Nauci.

[Dunnstral]

He's claiming I visited Aloratom (whom he believes is the Jailkeeper) so that no matter who was jailed N2 it can't break his claim (because Roleblocker resolves first).

Dunnstral is relying pretty heavily on the argument that I am scum and know who the Jailkeeper is.

So scum!Blair or scum!Dunnstral has found the Jailkeeper.

Now ask yourself: Why isn't the Jailkeeper dead? Scum!Blair gains nothing from keeping the Jailkeeper alive. Scum!Dunnstral on the other hand, can keep the Jailkeeper alive in order to corroborate his fake claim ("Wow, I am the Jailkeeper and I target Dunnstral N1 - that explains why he got no result!")

If I'm scum then I know that not killing the Jailkeeper leaves me facing two town power roles today. Sure I could roleblock one of them continuously but that's still two named townies in endgame.

Dunnstral is arguing that scum know who the Jailkeeper is. He's probably right (he knows who the Jailkeeper is) but out of the two of us, he's the only one with a conceivable scum motive to leave them alive.

In a potential scum me team, there exists no roleblocker. You are a roleblocker, and can stop anything the jailkeeper tries to do. It's that simple.

OKAY!
(Please correct where I am wrong)
If I believe Dunnstral, he is a tracker and believes Votato is the Jailkeep. This is what he says went down this game.
So night 1, Lilith tracked Fish and Votato Jailkept them. Resulting with no night kill, and Lilith getting no result. So either fish was stopped from killing or was the target.

Night 2 Dunn tracked Blair who visited Alortom. Meaning that since Alortom isn't dead Blair must be the Jailkeeper (which they would have claimed) or must be the rolestopper.

Dunn if this is your claim, just say yes. If not correct me.

Note that jailkeeping the target does not result in a no result from me. So I was directly roleblockked

Other than that, yes

[Dunnstral]

Nah I only realized it when I took a closer look at your roleblock target; you've been pr hunting it seems; Blair probably roleblocked the JK last night; she has an inkling on who it is already. Reminder that mafia rb takes precedence over town jailkeeper

I looked deeper into the iso of the predecessor of the player she roleblocked:

We aren't lynching Freddie. That was so clearly not scum play.

Freddie's play clearly came from noobtown. The timing of the claim does not come from scum. She was obviously confused after your role fishing.
Also, what have you learned from your gambit? You said you'd have the game solved, but here you are going for blood on an obvtown slot.
Doc/jk should probably breadcrumb their target from last night in case they die.

There could be a jailkeeper who locked up either the target or the mafia executing the kill

It looks to me that

Alartom

is the

Jailkeeper

and he jailkept

Blair

on night 1.

Remember how there was no night kill on night 1? That means that Blair was either the target of the kill, or the one doing the killing; do you guys really think a claimed vt slot that was flailing and under pressure would be targeted for the kill?

Here's more softing:

I'm not so much for a Blair/Freddie hook today.

Notice the use of the word 'hook', aka hooker, aka a roleblocker

Alartom

, you're making a big mistake by not pushing

Blair

here - it should be

pretty clear

that she's scum from your point of view.

As for me outting my thoughts here:

scum already know

, as evidenced by Blair's targetting. You're better off outting today and claiming who you're going to jailkeep the next day. Blair is the roleblocker - lynch her and we've got tracker + jailkeeper - you announce your target, I'll check someone else, maf has to kill me, you've got a clear, then you can do that 1 more time for a 2nd clear, I think it turns into auto win if I can convince you to move to Blair today.

@Tuxedo: Dunnstral claimed that he received No Result on Night 1. This means that he was either jailed or roleblocked.

He then claims that he saw Blair visit Aloratom, who was not the night kill. This means Blair must either he the jailer or the Mafia Roleblocker.

Except he's speculating that Aloratom is the jailer, and that he jailed Blair on Night 1, so she could not have blocked him, and neither could Aloratom. This scenario is impossible if he saw Blair visit Aloratom last night OR if he received No Result on Night 1, so why would he be speculating about that at all if his claim was real?

I'll just leave you with this.

Mafia Roleblocker

action takes precedence over a

Town Jailkeeper

action should that apply.

[Dunnstral]

Are you claiming that you tracked Blair to Alortrom last night so they must be the roleblocker?

YES

[Dunnstral]

And the reason I know she's the roleblocker specifically is because:
-Alortrom didn't die, and somebody else died
-I was roleblocked night 1
-Somebody else was protected night 1

All of that means I know that the setup is Row 2, A

[Dunnstral]

Oof. Jailkeeper has to decide between roleblocking Blair or her unknown partner tonight.

[Dunnstral]

Actually Blair is a roleblocker so there will be no jailkeeper games. And her partner is known - it's one of Nauci/Tuxedo Mask

Aloratom... you're not helping by trying to hide your role anymore man

[Dunnstral]

But the two roles aren't conflicting unless

we

target each other, which he is claiming did not occur.

[Dunnstral]

OK, so obviously I misinterpreted what the jailkeeper was doing, because that makes no sense

[Dunnstral]

Please repeat without using pronouns.

Dunnstral is a liar.

Are you scum?

[Dunnstral]

I did believe it - I was confused about the roleblocker/jailkeeper thing

Obviouslly the jailkeeper didn't act as I imagined, so it's not a big hangup - that goes to show I'm town, by the way, as mafia I wouldn't be latching onto the wrong soft from the jailkeeper (what was that abotu btw, Aloratom? I think some explaining is in order because the posts I quoted are too clear to me to be a coincidence)

[Dunnstral]

Just three votes are needed for No Lynch.

If you + Battle mage are adamant on No Lynching today we can do that. Remember that Blair has to try to force the lynch onto me today and if she can't get that and we instead no lynch she loses a lot of steam

VOTE: No Lynch

[Dunnstral]

Reminder that Blair scum has to try to lynch me today - no lynch isn't good for her

[Dunnstral]

Why are you in such a hurry to lynch me Tux?

[Dunnstral]

scumstral

Haven't heard that one before (lie)

[Dunnstral]

I'm not a 'demonstrated liar' unless you're talking about, in which case

[Dunnstral]

2822

[Dunnstral]

*2282

[Dunnstral]

This is getting real tiresome, I'll make the vote everybody is thinking about making:

VOTE: Dunnstral

Wp Blair! I bet you won't find my partner though, he's hiding behind at least 3 layers of wifom (1 of which should hit pretty close to home )

First person to hammer Dunnstral is town cleared. This offer also extends to Dunnstral.

Ay I did it, can I save my town clear for the next time we play together?

[Dunnstral]

Nauci I shouldn't have self voted until we had discussed more about who the jailkeeper was

My thoughts on newbie setups: I put forward what I saw as a fairly simple fakeclaim but due to the setup it became an ultra confusing claim that people were glad that not many newbies were around for