Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[CopyKat]

Hello all! I've skimmed the thread but I'm going to go back and read it more critically now that I've officially replaced in

[CopyKat]

may get to it tonight but likely won't be until tomorrow morning

[CopyKat]

Pretty good chance votato is town. I need to take another look at feathers, ironcat, and gibbus

[CopyKat]

Pretty good chance votato is town.

Why?

I really like the majority of their posts. Its the only decent read I've gotten so far.

[CopyKat]

Do you disagree?

[CopyKat]

Please point some out, I'm missing your perspective entirely.

16+48+49 <-- I think he's genuine about having wanted to play scum
98 <-- pointing out the "thread spamming" is pro town.
160+168 <-- I agree with these
198 <--- scum!votato probably wouldn't bring this up in case the roles were the same as before

[CopyKat]

I haven't made any read on him, but I'm thinking you both are masons.

if you aren't scum that is

If we were masons do you think you just did town any favors by pointing it out?

gibus has to be town. scum would be speculating on masons in their PT not in the game thread

[CopyKat]

98 <-- pointing out the "thread spamming" is pro town.

How? I'm finding your townread far fetched

spamming the thread adds a layer of noise that makes it harder to develop reads. trying to reduce this noise benefits town.

[CopyKat]

I'm not sure what your problem is but it's quite clear you're taking this game too personally and projecting your true feelings onto others.

I think that's just they're schtick. I doubt they're taking it personal at all.

[CopyKat]

I'd be proud to be your scum buddy. Too bad I'm not.

Who is this directed to?

[CopyKat]

I think you're posting on the wrong account. Please quote all this into your iso

huh?

[CopyKat]

also the things you guys town read me for are very easy to fake as scum

true but I'm willing to risk it for now

[CopyKat]

I'm not getting any strong scum reads from anybody right now so I'm trying to find town instead and figure out scum via PoE

[CopyKat]

tinfoil hat theory: formerfish/ironcat scum pair. their back and forth so far is just theater.

[CopyKat]

VOTE: Gibus

Gut read, something is off with these posts.

maybe but does scum call out who they think is a mason pair in the game thread?

[CopyKat]

Outing PRs is never a good idea as town, and is a scum move.

agree 100% but doesn't scum post "votato and copycat are masons" in their scum PT and not here?

I think there is a difference between scum play and poor play.

[CopyKat]

ok I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but this may be a legit scum slip...

Why is it bad for town to out masons? It can help in elimination so early lynches can be more accurate.

outing PR's makes for more accurate lynches. ok this is misguided but not entirely wrong

If it doesn't make them more accurate, the mafia would waste night kills

so the first quote implies being more accurate is bad for scum but the second quote implies not being more accurate is bad for scum.

I think you lost track of which side of the argument you are supposed to be on

VOTE: gibus

[CopyKat]

and i still think copykat is scum

oh do tell me more

[CopyKat]

Copykat, I think #275 clarifies it for you?

no it doesn't. can you restate your point without playing the pronoun game.

[CopyKat]

If

it

doesn't make

them

more accurate (if said people aren't masons at all), the mafia would waste night kills (on VTs), which would be better for town.

What is "it"? What are "them"?

[CopyKat]

Gibus could be noob, but, I don't know I like being on this wagon if Copykat looks so... mercenary may be the right word?

You don't think they scum slipped in 264+265?

[CopyKat]

Why is it bad for town to out masons? It can help in elimination so early lynches can be more accurate.

If

the guess that said people are masons

doesn't make

elimination

more accurate, the mafia would waste night kills

ok I guess this makes more sense.

But by your logic does making the "elimination" more accurate mean mafia is less likely to waste night kills?

[CopyKat]

I mean, he seems to be jumping from a full scum team guess to a full move off the same guess too quickly for my liking.

It wasn't a serious accusation and I think that's obvious

Almost like it doesn't matter who is lynched outside of two people with that speed.

I'm not following what you mean here

[CopyKat]

We also hadn't had a votecount in how many pages so I didn't realize I put them at L-1 but you guys do what you gotta do

[CopyKat]

So now I'm in a catch-22

gibus clarified 264+265 for me and Its not the scum slip I thought it was but if I unvote I'll probably be scumread for it

There are two people who the scum do not want lynched. Otherwise, the only reason they want a slot to keep around is if they think they've got them pocketed.

You clearly do not have anyone pocketed.

So am I scum in this or is scum trying to keep me around? I genuinely confused

[CopyKat]

UNVOTE: gibus

[CopyKat]

Copykat, how many games have you played on forums?

lots

[CopyKat]

So who am I, as scum, trying to keep around?

[CopyKat]

VOTE: Copykat

This is behavior I would expect to see in a newb or a bad scum.

So who am I, as scum, trying to keep around?

There are two people on the scum team. Do I need to spell out how the set up works.

or maybe, just maybe, the point you tried to make doesn't make as much sense as you think it does

[CopyKat]

This is behavior I would expect to see in a newb or a bad scum.

For the sake of everybody, could your please expand on what's wrong with my behavior?

[CopyKat]

There are two people who the scum do not want lynched. Otherwise, the only reason they want a slot to keep around is if they think they've got them pocketed.

You clearly do not have anyone pocketed.

The two people scum don't want lynched are scum. This is insightful and true.
I haven't pocketed anybody. this is also true.

WHERE DOES ME NOT HAVING POCKETED ANYBODY LEAD YOU TO DRAW THE CONCLUSION THAT I AM SCUM?

CopyKat, the town setup we're using has two mafia members. Brass is saying he thinks you're switching accusations so fast that it's like you don't care who gets lynched besides two people, aka you and the other scum.

Btw Brass again isn't this also what Gibus is doing? Why did you move your vote off him then?

feathers your are fuck LOCK TOWN my man

I get how the setup works but I appreciate your help

[CopyKat]

Brass, are you saying that I tried to pocket gibus, failed, and am now trying to get them lynched instead?

[CopyKat]

I got my back up there for a minute, I apologize

[CopyKat]

I'm not just going insane.

Apparently I am

[CopyKat]

You guys will have to bear with me, English is my first language

[CopyKat]

You seem to have no independent reads. Every time we talk about things that aren't quite right you either don't understand or didn't know.

You literally jumped on a wagon and jumped off with no reasoning for either the first or the second.

You may be posting but you definitely are not saying anything.

"You seem to have no independent reads" <--- 229+238, granted its not a lot but its not none

"Every time we talk about things that aren't quite right you either don't understand or didn't know" <--- this is such a subjective statement. Not sure how I'm supposed to argue this. I guess trying to get clarification on things is scummy, who knew

"You literally jumped on a wagon and jumped off with no reasoning for either the first or the second." <--- 274 for the first, 302 for the second

"You may be posting but you definitely are not saying anything" <--- another subjective statement

[CopyKat]

VOTE: copykat
you missed that one at least.

And I'm scum because I didn't announce L-1 when I voted gibus and what else?

[CopyKat]

VOTE: copykat. i agree with brass. its mostly gut, but copykat seems pretty opportunistic hopping on the major wagon, putting it to L-1 without saying anything. I also see nothing in copykats case about scumslippng. Not a strong case against copykat, ill concede, but worth pressuring. I still dont like ironcat, but that might just be due to language barrier.

i meant that i dont see any merit in your case about gibus scumslipping, to clarify

Did you see where I rescinded my vote when I got clarification about what he meant?

[CopyKat]

Good morning, everybody!

[CopyKat]

I'm unsure of these folks so maybe they're town after all.

Reverse list of possible town in order

~
1. Freddie
2. Potato the unidoggo
3. bass
4. feathers
5. kat
6. gibus
7. Lilith

Ofc I could be VERY wrong in this list but derp, just trying to eliminate my suspicion here

Suspicious of lilith because fishyman behave really weird after I suspected her.

So Freddie is scummiest?

[CopyKat]

ironcat is clearly non-native in english. fluent, but idioms, etc. dont seem to come naturally

can you give examples?

You're English is far from trash btw

[CopyKat]

brass/copykat/feathers

I'm townreading feathers

, so one out of brass/copykat

will reread both ISOs now

then why include feathers in your list?

[CopyKat]

It was a list of people on the gibus wagon..

gotcha

[CopyKat]

Ironcat explicitly calls out suspicion of me so I think it’s pretty clear they mean freddie is towniest

[CopyKat]

I think copykat's switch from defending gibus ("scum wouldn't be trying to out masons in this thread") to attacking a "scumslip" feel contrived to me, like he is trying to get on the bandwagon as fast as possible and needs something to attack gibus for. Typically I think scum are more likely to attack something like that so suddenly and aggressively.

VOTE: copykat

I think this is L-2

why would scum!me pass on the opportunity to vote gibus for calling out masons?

[CopyKat]

Off the top of my head I can think of a bunch of reasons for scum!you defending gibus here:- towncred for defending gibus if the wagon ends in a lynch and he flips town- in a world with town!gibus, gibus probably feels more warmly towards you for defending him when everyone else seems to be angry with him (ie pocketing)- could be trying to set up your team so that one person is on and on person is off the wagon- you’re not trying to have gibus be the D1 lynch and instead are hoping to direct the lynch onto a more influential or experienced player and/or are saving a gibus mislynch for future days- you may not have realized that this was going to turn into a real wagon/underestimated the momentum to his slot- gibus is your partner and you’re defending him for what amounts to a faked “town”tell

but then why make the switch to voting gibus after?

I don't get it. I thought gibus was town. then I thought he scum slipped so I voted for him not realizing it put him at L-1, talked to him about the "slip" and cleared up what he meant, realized what I thought was a slip wasn't and unvoted him.

but everybody wants to lynch me for that lol and when I try to interact with the people voting for me and provide explanations they are all but ignored.

[CopyKat]

feathers is 100% town. votato and gibus are probably town.

scum is likely in ironcat, freddy, lillith, fish, and brass

[CopyKat]

Also, who’s “everybody”? Only 3 people are voting you

[CopyKat]

Situationally, you were defending gibus; you suddenly voted him after 3 or 4 people were pressuring him on the mason thing; and you unvoted him once the bandwagon died.

Only brass had voted for him so "3 or 4" people were not pressuring him. votato was talking to him about it but I wouldn't call it pressure.

but fuck it. I'm done explaining my gibus vote

[CopyKat]

feathers is 100% town. votato and gibus are probably town.

scum is likely in ironcat, freddy, lillith, fish, and brass

I want to say freddy is town. looked up their previous newbie game and they barely posted and they are much more involved here. I don't think that change happens their first time rolling scum.

hopefully fish starts contributing more soon. Would like to try and sort them out

[CopyKat]

ironcat kinda depends on fish. does scum!ironcat pick an early fight with fish? maybe if both scum are new but I think at least one scum is an SE.

If fish is scum, I could see an ironcat/fish scum pair

p-edit: "copykat seems to have done a 180 here" how so?

[CopyKat]

You've reversed on gibus and now you're sheeping my reads. Please elaborate reasoning on your reads

just lynch me now... I can't take it anymore... have you been reading what I've posted?

[CopyKat]

Where are you getting this from?

PoE

[CopyKat]

Just to add on - lynching mafia on D1 can actually hurt town because they have less to work with in terms of analyzing how the dead mafia interacted with other players and determining who is most suspicious based on that. Bussing is a fairly common strategy on this site, so don’t expect that players who are attacking each other are always the opposite alignment.

that's completely counter-intuitive but makes sense

[CopyKat]

You say that you need more from me but I don't feel like you've engaged the content Ive posted so far.

The majority of your posts up to this point where you puffing out your chest but to a degree you are right, I will try and engage you more directly

Fixed Tags

[CopyKat]

@votato, is there a reason you seem to be ignoring my posts where I've addressed your points in 295?

[CopyKat]

You've addressed some posts I've made, but never 295

do you only read my posts if I address/quote you specifically?

[CopyKat]

i read through the entire ISO. you stated some reasons but thats different than explaining a thought process. its gonna take more to convince me, but maybe you can just convince me going forward by being more towny.

VOTE: votato

This is trash. If you'd read through my ISO you'd see where I called out gibus for what I thought was a scum slip, talked to him about to clarify what he meant, and once I did I unvoted. What else could you be looking for regarding my "thought process"?

[CopyKat]

the reason i voted you is not because you pressured gibus or unvoted. its because you didnt state reasoning for your vote which made it seem very opportunistic. and then i didnt like your ex post reasoning for the vote. you liking gibus' answer seems like you're just backtracking after getting called out. from the beginning it was clearly not a scumslip.

lol this is a joke, right? I absolutely did give a reason and explained why I thought it was a scum slip in the exact post that I voted in.

maybe you honestly just saw something that wasnt there, which is why im saying just go on playing and maybe youll do something to convince me you arent scum. your narrative around your voting patterns seems less likely to me than the alternative that i present. you havent addressed my thinking at all. your narrative is parallel and mutually exclusive, but you havent explained why i should reject my narrative and accept yours.

[CopyKat]

ok. both votato and lillith say we are better of lynching town than scum day one. I offer myself up to be mislynched. it would be preferable to repeatedly banging my head against the wall.

[CopyKat]

I'm taking a break for a bit. I've got a couple meetings this afternoon and I need to let my blood pressure come back down

[CopyKat]

UNVOTE:

I think I let myself get emotional. We will need to sort votato prior to lylo though.

[CopyKat]

UNVOTE:

I think I let myself get emotional. We will need to sort votato prior to lylo though.

pretty sure we need to sort everyone.

I feel like you are backtracking again

. What are your current reads?

of course you do. its called confirmation bias. If I wasn't "backtracking" you'd probably accuse me of tunneling.

I still think feathers and gibus are town. freddy is likely town and Lillith feels town but I don't have a ton of confidence. I don't know about you.

I had town read you before and I'm questioning now but I'm trying to figure out if that's just an emotional response to our recent interactions. I'm looking back at all your little jokes about being scum and I'm realizing that I don't want you in lylo regardless of your alignment.

ironcat goes back and forth for me.

I'm not a fan of brass but I worry that could be an emotional response as well.

I wouldn't cry over a fish lynch. But that's a playstyle thing.

I don't have any strong scum reads as of yet.

[CopyKat]

so you had a townread on me when you were voting me but now you're not sure so you unvoted me?

I had a town read on you.

There were a series of posts where I explained my vote on gibus and I didn't think you were making a good faith attempt to understand my side of things. I thought you could be scum.

After I calmed down I realized that my "scum" read on you was likely an emotional response so I unvoted.

Looking back at your ISO I still see some townie things but I have lingering doubts now

[CopyKat]

wishy. washy. why would you vote someone you townread? and now youre saying that your vote was pure OMGUS? you arent exactly making a great case for yourself here.

Did you not read what I just wrote?

Its obvious you aren't trying to really determine my alignment. the question is if its because you are scum or just arrogant town.

[CopyKat]

its the same as when I explained my gibus vote. I lay out my though process and you refuse to see it from any angle other than me being scum

[CopyKat]

sorry I'm here. will get caught up tonight.